I bought the heat exchanger. I have a 250 gallon system and going to give it a go. I’m a plumber so the piping should be easy. I’m going to use a circular pump with a mixing valve off the boiler to be able to adjust my feed temp. To turn the pumps on I’m going to use my INKBIRD controller off a rib relay. Most of those grundfos circulators have built in check Valves. And no need for a zone valve if that circulator is only controller 1 zone ie. aquarium
Got excited to see this, I was recently introduced to the pex design and already realized it was not very elegant, the bacteria issue was not even on my radar! Sadly, the cheapest heat exchanger on Ebay is 250.00 so I'll just have to wait in the shadows for a better price to show up. Thanks for the thorough walk-through of your system!
Man, it's like I write those descriptions just for my own enjoyment :) www.ebay.com/itm/55k-BTU-Titanium-Heat-Exchanger-w-Same-Side-Ports-Saltwater-Pools-Spas-/301141502602 www.fish-street.com/aquarium_titanium_evaporator
Bah, I clicked the link in the description and it didn't go anywhere and when I searched on my own I didn't find it because it is no longer available. Link works now though.
Great video. You could use a mixing valve to reduce the heat exchanger temp so it doesn't heat as fast. Not an issue for you but someone who doesn't have an apex might find it useful.
Excellent video. Have changed my plans to this idea instead of the sump. Couldn't bring myself to waste that much energy. Are you having any hot going back into cold line with your pump going? Try pluming return to tank drain valve. It keeps entire tank at same temp top to bottom. It's giving you some what better efficiency? (I imagine thats why plumbers do it that way.)
This is the greatest video I have ever seen on youtube! I'm not kidding, you are a genius. Thanks! I'm going to run the titanium coil in the sump. Since I haven't set up my tank yet, I will try it without the ball valve and see if the thermal siphoning makes a difference before I add livestock. Also do you have an expansion tank connected on your house system? If I install the circulation pump as you show should I add an expansion tank on the cold water line between in the cold water source and the water heater?
Glad you like it. If you do not use the ball valve you must use a one way valve, otherwise when you turn hot water on somewhere else in the house you will get cold water flowing through the system. You do not need an expansion tank- a expansion tank is necessary on a closed system, which if you are using a hot water heater connected to a cold water supply line you do not have. Basically the water line coming into your house acts as a expansion chamber. Anytime you have a closed system, then you need an expansion tank (ie a closed loop with a tankless water heater or a heating boiler, etc)
Over sizing your return line is the easiest/cheapest way to increase flow or decrease the size of your return pump. I have a flow calculator if you want to see with your own setup.
I also agree this is a really good video and a great idea I want to do this on my 300 gallon my filter system will be in the basement right next to the hot water heater I'm curious to know how well this system is working and holding up??
the system is doing perfectly, I haven't had a single issue. I feel way more confident in it than my many, many electric heaters. I'll pull the heat exchanger once the heating season is over and see how it is holding up, and how clean it is, and let you guys know
This video is pretty old, but I was wondering if you have experimented or have any info regarding trying to keep your tank at 81 so about 3 degrees higher than you keep yours?
Update? And do you think implementing this method on a 180 gallon freshwater tank plus a 50 gallon sump is economical just as much? Tank is at a southern California uninsulated garage where temperatures around 40° to 60° during winter
DUDE! Long term exposure to copper kills living things! If you have copper pipes in your house, you're probably ok, if you don't use copper fittings in your sump system. Some fish are okay with copper exposure (many fresh water fish are ok... kinda). Some marine (salt water) fish (the more expensive ones) will be killed by exposure to copper. Inverts will be killed by copper. I'd LOVE to do this for my 500 gal Reef and 900 gal FOWLR (angel fish) tank. But there'd have to be a no-copper solution. Once copper gets into your tank... pretty d**n hard to get it out.
I haven't done it, so it may need some trial and error. First pick the type of AC unit (whole house, mini split, window, etc). The first step is to figure out how to turn it on using a 120v on/off. For a window AC this is easy- crank it to it's coldest setting, and plug it into a temperature controller that will turn it on and off. For a whole house unit it is probably more complicated, but can probably be done with by triggering it with 24v, but I think that is AC power that is needed. You may need to pop on one of those HVAC sites and ask a few questions or hire a heating and cooling guy, but I don't think it should be too complicated, as you are basically just installing a second thermostat. Then you will need to disconnect the heat exchanger and circulation pump from the hot water heater and connect it to a closed loop that runs by the evaporator coil on your ac. This can be done with ball valves and tees so it is easy to switch. This closed loop should probably have some sort of freeze protection in it- I would recommend vodka, as if a little bit gets into the drinking water it is no big deal. The closed loop should be made out of pipe that can expand and contract easily (pex or vinyl would work fine), that way you will not need an expansion tank. Lastly, you will be placing a coil of your circulation fluid (some percent vodka) on or near the evaporator coil of the AC (this is the coil that gets cold- on a window ac it is often right behind a dust screen). I do not know how difficult heat exchange will be, and although I could do some calculations, there are just way to many variables, so you will need to trial and error it. But you may be able to get away with the coil on the evaporative coil, but this might freeze it; you might be able to use pex or vinyl, or it might need to be a copper coil (you can buy copper refrigerator supply line already coiled at any home improvement store); etc.
Ok so you are basically put a cold water with vodka loop near an evaporator, which would be cooled essentially by the cold air that the AC produces or contact between the evaporator and the loop material.
Do you think this would work? ruclips.net/video/HBrrVwvuAQE/видео.html Running water instead of glycol/water at somewhere between 40 and 60 degrees F in the ice chest? It looks kinda bulky, but if it crapped out, it would only require another cheap AC unit instead of a new chiller and it seems to have a decent cooling capacity for the price.
That would work but it is probably a little over complicated- They are making a chiller there. It means that all the waste heat is staying in your house, which we usually don't want. I guess you could place the whole unit outside, but I think just a window ac unit, if there is a nearby window, is an easier and better solution
only a 100amp service ahahaha - iv seen houses with only 40amp supplies - you see all the lights dim when the 20amp hot water heater comes on (240v 1ph)
this was an old beach house we rented when we were on holiday - the main fuse was 40amp rated and it had a switch for night rate and day rate - so you could turn the water heater on in off peak hours or during the day - all the lights dimmed down but luckly the biggest load was the hot water heater witch would only run when we were asleep and the stove and over wernt a problem either - it didnt affect us at all - but keep in mind i am in Australia where we have 240/250v 50Hz not 110v 60Hz haha - so a 20amp hot water heater is actually 5kw
Bob Johnson you can use a electric hot water heater, but you don’t get a energy cost savings. In fact it will be less efficient due to losses in the lines. If your only goal is to not have electric heaters in the tank it will work just fine
I bought the heat exchanger. I have a 250 gallon system and going to give it a go. I’m a plumber so the piping should be easy. I’m going to use a circular pump with a mixing valve off the boiler to be able to adjust my feed temp. To turn the pumps on I’m going to use my INKBIRD controller off a rib relay. Most of those grundfos circulators have built in check Valves. And no need for a zone valve if that circulator is only controller 1 zone ie. aquarium
Got excited to see this, I was recently introduced to the pex design and already realized it was not very elegant, the bacteria issue was not even on my radar! Sadly, the cheapest heat exchanger on Ebay is 250.00 so I'll just have to wait in the shadows for a better price to show up. Thanks for the thorough walk-through of your system!
Man, it's like I write those descriptions just for my own enjoyment :)
www.ebay.com/itm/55k-BTU-Titanium-Heat-Exchanger-w-Same-Side-Ports-Saltwater-Pools-Spas-/301141502602
www.fish-street.com/aquarium_titanium_evaporator
Bah, I clicked the link in the description and it didn't go anywhere and when I searched on my own I didn't find it because it is no longer available. Link works now though.
Great video. You could use a mixing valve to reduce the heat exchanger temp so it doesn't heat as fast. Not an issue for you but someone who doesn't have an apex might find it useful.
How is that heat exchanger holding up. My only concern is it getting a pin hole and leaking boiler water into my aquarium
Excellent video. Have changed my plans to this idea instead of the sump. Couldn't bring myself to waste that much energy. Are you having any hot going back into cold line with your pump going? Try pluming return to tank drain valve. It keeps entire tank at same temp top to bottom. It's giving you some what better efficiency? (I imagine thats why plumbers do it that way.)
This is the greatest video I have ever seen on youtube! I'm not kidding, you are a genius. Thanks! I'm going to run the titanium coil in the sump. Since I haven't set up my tank yet, I will try it without the ball valve and see if the thermal siphoning makes a difference before I add livestock. Also do you have an expansion tank connected on your house system? If I install the circulation pump as you show should I add an expansion tank on the cold water line between in the cold water source and the water heater?
Glad you like it. If you do not use the ball valve you must use a one way valve, otherwise when you turn hot water on somewhere else in the house you will get cold water flowing through the system.
You do not need an expansion tank- a expansion tank is necessary on a closed system, which if you are using a hot water heater connected to a cold water supply line you do not have. Basically the water line coming into your house acts as a expansion chamber. Anytime you have a closed system, then you need an expansion tank (ie a closed loop with a tankless water heater or a heating boiler, etc)
Great video. Why is your PVC so large?
Over sizing your return line is the easiest/cheapest way to increase flow or decrease the size of your return pump. I have a flow calculator if you want to see with your own setup.
I also agree this is a really good video and a great idea I want to do this on my 300 gallon my filter system will be in the basement right next to the hot water heater I'm curious to know how well this system is working and holding up??
the system is doing perfectly, I haven't had a single issue. I feel way more confident in it than my many, many electric heaters. I'll pull the heat exchanger once the heating season is over and see how it is holding up, and how clean it is, and let you guys know
This video is pretty old, but I was wondering if you have experimented or have any info regarding trying to keep your tank at 81 so about 3 degrees higher than you keep yours?
Update?
And do you think implementing this method on a 180 gallon freshwater tank plus a 50 gallon sump is economical just as much?
Tank is at a southern California uninsulated garage where temperatures around 40° to 60° during winter
Cool project well put together.
DUDE! Long term exposure to copper kills living things! If you have copper pipes in your house, you're probably ok, if you don't use copper fittings in your sump system. Some fish are okay with copper exposure (many fresh water fish are ok... kinda). Some marine (salt water) fish (the more expensive ones) will be killed by exposure to copper. Inverts will be killed by copper. I'd LOVE to do this for my 500 gal Reef and 900 gal FOWLR (angel fish) tank. But there'd have to be a no-copper solution. Once copper gets into your tank... pretty d**n hard to get it out.
The copper and the saltwater system are completely separate, so it is not a concern. Definitely don’t use a copper heat exchanger 😂
Can you also give a few more details on how you would modify an air conditioning unit to work with the titanium heat exchanger?
I haven't done it, so it may need some trial and error. First pick the type of AC unit (whole house, mini split, window, etc). The first step is to figure out how to turn it on using a 120v on/off. For a window AC this is easy- crank it to it's coldest setting, and plug it into a temperature controller that will turn it on and off. For a whole house unit it is probably more complicated, but can probably be done with by triggering it with 24v, but I think that is AC power that is needed. You may need to pop on one of those HVAC sites and ask a few questions or hire a heating and cooling guy, but I don't think it should be too complicated, as you are basically just installing a second thermostat. Then you will need to disconnect the heat exchanger and circulation pump from the hot water heater and connect it to a closed loop that runs by the evaporator coil on your ac. This can be done with ball valves and tees so it is easy to switch. This closed loop should probably have some sort of freeze protection in it- I would recommend vodka, as if a little bit gets into the drinking water it is no big deal. The closed loop should be made out of pipe that can expand and contract easily (pex or vinyl would work fine), that way you will not need an expansion tank. Lastly, you will be placing a coil of your circulation fluid (some percent vodka) on or near the evaporator coil of the AC (this is the coil that gets cold- on a window ac it is often right behind a dust screen). I do not know how difficult heat exchange will be, and although I could do some calculations, there are just way to many variables, so you will need to trial and error it. But you may be able to get away with the coil on the evaporative coil, but this might freeze it; you might be able to use pex or vinyl, or it might need to be a copper coil (you can buy copper refrigerator supply line already coiled at any home improvement store); etc.
Ok so you are basically put a cold water with vodka loop near an evaporator, which would be cooled essentially by the cold air that the AC produces or contact between the evaporator and the loop material.
exactly
Do you think this would work? ruclips.net/video/HBrrVwvuAQE/видео.html Running water instead of glycol/water at somewhere between 40 and 60 degrees F in the ice chest? It looks kinda bulky, but if it crapped out, it would only require another cheap AC unit instead of a new chiller and it seems to have a decent cooling capacity for the price.
That would work but it is probably a little over complicated- They are making a chiller there. It means that all the waste heat is staying in your house, which we usually don't want. I guess you could place the whole unit outside, but I think just a window ac unit, if there is a nearby window, is an easier and better solution
Can you do a quick video on how this is doing?
Is stainless steel safe for discus? From what I understand copper/ brass is not good for their health..
Stainless is perfectly fine for discus mate.
Well explained new subscriber Barry Manchester England 👍
only a 100amp service ahahaha - iv seen houses with only 40amp supplies - you see all the lights dim when the 20amp hot water heater comes on (240v 1ph)
really? I think I would upgrade that pretty quick- I don't think I could live on 40 amps
this was an old beach house we rented when we were on holiday - the main fuse was 40amp rated and it had a switch for night rate and day rate - so you could turn the water heater on in off peak hours or during the day - all the lights dimmed down but luckly the biggest load was the hot water heater witch would only run when we were asleep and the stove and over wernt a problem either - it didnt affect us at all - but keep in mind i am in Australia where we have 240/250v 50Hz not 110v 60Hz haha - so a 20amp hot water heater is actually 5kw
very nicely explained thank you!
Would this have to be a gas water heater? Wouldn't it be the same for an electric?
Bob Johnson you can use a electric hot water heater, but you don’t get a energy cost savings. In fact it will be less efficient due to losses in the lines. If your only goal is to not have electric heaters in the tank it will work just fine