Probleme is not really dps, but all together. Today healer must heal, dps, interupt if possible, manage affixs, manage other players errors and all this with 30 000 addons. Its not that it can't be fun, hard can be fun. But not all the time. Games must be fun, not only chalenging.
I remember when healer role was to heal and manage mana. Off course its not bad to have more things to do, but it was not so bad too to just heal and manage mana. There must be a middle ground between two extremes. Right now most of healers i know are just tired of all information they must manage and play others roles.
I like when healer damage is more of a thing, and healing is less pushed to the limit. I mostly pug, the more my damage matters and the less my healing matters the better. When healers are tuned like they are for all of DF it makes healing pugs pretty miserable.
I've played all three roles as my main and I can appreciate them for what they are. If I sign up for healing, I fully expect to heal. If I'm relying on the tank to provide his own mitigation, DR, and self-heals so that I can DPS, then I'm not a healer. I'm just another DPS. I'm already asked to do all of the things DPS is asked to do plus a ton of other tasks that get in the way of healing. Either you have a healer role, or you do not. I don't believe there is a middle ground.
Yes. I love the concept of healing in the least GCDs as possible to pump as much dps as possible. This efficiency game is the most fun part about healing along with lining up cooldown with heal checks to maximize dps.
Personally as a resto Druid that’s been healing since vanilla I despise being forced to do dps. It makes M+ less desirable to do. That’s why I prefer raid healing where I’m able to heal basically the entire time.
I personally used to enjoy and miss having to actually heal the tank. Dungeons used to be more about keeping the tank alive and praying they pull sensibly and less on healing dps who make mistakes or are getting targeted by things that will kill them or close to in one hit. I wish they would bring that back tbh because that is when I enjoyed healing the most.
In the great BFA cinematic we did not see Anduin cast a mass dps spell, it was a mass healing spell. Super iconic healer moment and players want to act that out in their game play. Either evolve the gameplay into a more interesting support role that replaces the need for doing direct damage or make changes to dungeon game play that doesn’t encourage healers to dps so much. You can make the game more interesting without the need of doing more damage.
Bfa #1 xpac hands down. VERY balanced. Not sure why people didn’t like it, the dungeons, raids, mechanics, and even towards the end the corruption felt really good and it didn’t take them guessing on what to do they implemented it and it WORKED there wasn’t a million patches or nerfing this nerfing that a million times. It just worked. I played 12+ hours a day back then couldn’t get me off the game until sl was released and I was gone after doing a +20 first week after maxing. Bfa was good higher content felt like higher content lower content felt like learning for higher content.
I play tank, dps, and heal. And healing definitely has an unfair amount of responsibility in dungeons. As dps, i can just pump up my perf and throw out some interrupts. On my healer, i have to dps, heal, interrupt, decurse, and most of the more difficult affixes effect healers. I used to be a healer first and then would play other alts. Now i main more dps cause it's easier to get on and have an easy couple mythics and get off. While on heals, i pretty much have to be on top of my game all the time. I can't have easy mythics unless i do lower keys, but then what is the point. Instead of making healers do everything, maybe make dps do it. Take away my interrupts and my decursing. Put that all on the dps. Then i will dps and heal. But dont make me do it all
Fully agree with one of the other comments. If we are going away from being a 'healer' then let it be to feeling like support. I don't want to nuke the enemy, I want to buff my team and/or debuff the enemy to feel like I am supporting my team. That's the internal satisfaction I get playing this class in video games. Seeing my DPS numbers spike doesn't give me a lot of satisfaction, but knowing I allowed my team to pump up their own numbers does.
This is exactly why I switched from Healer to Augmentation Evoker. When high uptime damage starts feeling mandatory for a healer it's no-longer enjoyable for me to 'heal'.
In MOP Remix, I run a party support set of tinkers as rsham and it feels amazing. I'm giving the party haste, shields, improving their damage, making mobs take more damage from the party, etc. I'd be up for more support options in Retail (but I do NOT want to be tossing the new potions at party members).
yup! strong agree. Feeling important as a healer/support regardless of your individual dps numbers but how impactfull the things are that you do is what makes it feel like you're amazing as a healer
I believe that healers are support classes, and that's what I want to play. I wish healers instead of being expected to do damage in so called downtime/low damage phases, we were given abilities to actively buff our groups or debuff the enemies and help out in other ways then damage. The mentality has been for a long time just pulling more and killing faster is the best strat, and with most dps classes having alot of healing themselves, I feel like true support healers are being phased out.
You can still play healers like that just fine right now. On the cutting edge content, everyone needs to use every tool they have. Outside of that, not so much.
You can support your team by doing dps though. No one likes healers that go afk when there's no dmg going out or they just spam heals on full hp targets...
You are so self aware of your own healing experience relative to newer/more casual players. I appreciate you taking the time to discuss both casual and sweaty points of view ❤
I would like to see a combo support role - as a healer I would love to see some of the augmentation from aug evoker + healing together so that instead of DPSing, you're healing and augmenting. That would be a FUN class.
Yeah that is what I was going to comment here . Buffing your allies with damage buffs feels much more of a thing that a healer would do than doing the damage yourself
Idk why people are trying to say these things. We didn’t have issues in the past. Why move another direction? Healers are healers and they have some dps spells, heal and throw some damage out when you can. Simple. No need to move any other direction, it’s been this way since the beginning, healing has just never been so low in numbers previously. Keep it the same, increase healing numbers and health pools to damage in dungeons or raids so that way it balances out and you can actually heal. If you played bfa what so ever, you’d know healing was extremely balanced and so was damage taken. If you ever did a high key or even a low key in ur and you didn’t run mechanics you’re dead or nearly dead if healer can’t top you up quick enough. Last boss, you’re for sure dead if you’re not cleaning pools because the damage is so high that you run out of mana. It’s a mechanic check and heal check. Healers right now, are not needed, if we focus on healing numbers and not level squishing and not hp squishing and giving people more hp to work with, and lowering mitigation and self healing for tanks and dps, HEALER role becomes important again just as tank role is just as DPS role is. Support healers shouldn’t really be the move, fixing the spec, making it useful again, is what needs to happen.
Im a healer. Let me heal. I heard the dratnos podcast crews say to let healers focus on healing and put more consistent damage on the group. I personally would also like to have the responsibility of healing the tank as well. Focusing on me and the 4 dps on massive burst damage with a lot of 1 shots isn’t fun. I picked the game back up since I was a kid in dragon flight s3 so maybe this is just a “new” perspective. I haven’t been through all the xpacs and seasons most people have, but this is how I remember healing was as a kid and thought it was the fun part of the roll
If they want healers to dps they have to balance it. Take hpala (current state, I know it was op s2), you have to pop 3 offensive cds (wings + dt + daybreak) to do less dmg on a pack then a rdruid without cds or a shmana does just dropping rain. Some healers do more dmg without sacrificing cds then classes that do. On top of this, some healers go oom or net negative mana while dpsing, while other healers can spam a st or aoe dmg event while being mana net zero. its entierly unbalanced if this si the approach they want.
Using the data from Archon (Old Subcreation) so how accurate that is I can't comment. But it has HPS and DPS rankings for all healers in M+. And for keys 10+ Holy priest is doing is doing around 1.8x the damage of a Hpala which does the worst damage.
let me start with this. they should kill 4dpsing dungeons. dont allow spec swapping. that whole concept is trash. I do think healer dps is great for dungeon enviroment and balanced playstyle is acutally fun. However if gameplay is intended to do damage they need to provide a basic dps rotation for healers. Resto druid with cat weaving is great example of fleshed out healer with dps a rotation. I do think blizzard missed the mark for dungeons in dragonflight. this isnt just healer problems its M+ problems. M+ timers are so loose that Damage and healing dont matter. its just about getting past 1 shots. you can run 4 dps comps cause there zero rot damage in dungeons. you can run 4 dps comps cause there enough stops that mobs do nothing if controlled properly. Dragonflight currently tanks provide more sustain to group then a healer does. The healing requirement in a group really doesnt go up with key level. I personally think balanced playstyle of healer should stay, healing as whole in dungeons needs to be reworked. THere should be more damage profiles in dungeons then just did you survive the 1 shot mechanic that exceeds your hp bar. They should tighten timers again for dungeons so healing, sustain , damage all matter. Lets get away from this 1 shot meta. Buffs needs to go away in 5mans they are horrible for getting to play healer we want. we are getting forced on certain healers cause of buffs.
@@jamiesontu7944 exactly i mained R shaman for 4 years now and R druid for 8, first season i ever play a Hpala and got damn was that a mistake i have to have a perfect rotation and CD usage JUST to do garbage DPS , meanwhile on my shammy , healing rain+ chain lightning sometimes makes me do as much DPS as actual DPS classes
Same, I also dont like being expected to pump big damage, but hit big healing checks, and do the affixes. All at once. That's been steadily driving me away from the role. I've played half of season 3 and currently as a ret pally and having a blast. I can do damage, but also off heal in a pinch.
@@jamiesontu7944hpal doesn’t really NEED damage they do damage to proc their abilities to heal more. I think you’re playing your class wrong their buddy, it’s a healer/ dps of course they don’t do as much damage as a dps.
Im the kind of healer who dosnt like to go dps, i came from main resto druid for 10 years, with alittle of shammy on the side. And because people always talked about healer dps, i swapped to MW monk, because ,then im "forced" to do some dps in order to heal, this has worked really great for me. Monks dosent do the best dps, but when i follow my "rotation" dmg -> healing, it is what it is, and i dont feel i struggle to heal and dps at the same time.
Looking at moving to MW this expansion myself, coming from maining druid. Love the idea of form weaving but just can't keep up anymore, too tired and older haha
And your take is perfectly fine to do keys with no DPS... Just ignore the part about top .1% doing 4 dps and all the other things madskillz said about the TOP TOP players. to time the highest keys you need to do dmg. You are fighting the clock and how do you fight it? You down the mobs and bosses as fast as possible and how do you do that?.... you DPS. If you are looking into more casual key levels you do you and there is nothing wrong with sitting back and chillin.
I like the monk healer too, but I really feel that if I don't have a melee group to work with, the shifting back and forth between melee and ranged healing causes too many issues for me.
@@silentdocsihreen1912 in my experience this isnt really a problem unless you have hunters in your group, as apparently they all get a memo telling them to stand in narnia. (at least on MW)
so many people dont get that to the point that every roll is turning into dps with extra responsibilities apart form the og dps healers have to dps heal interupt cover up for the dps that brain afk and stand in all kind of shit on top dealing with as many as possible of the other mechanics so dps can have the least amount of things to do kinda depressing
Yeah the whole "constantly healing throughout fights will drive healers away" point was just crazy to me. If I want to press buttons to make health go down for an entire fight, I'll play DPS. If I want to do the same thing but make health go up, I'll play healer. Nobody playing healer is unhappy that they have to heal a lot, that's the whole point of the role. If they don't like it, why tf are they playing healer?
There are 3 ways to deal with this a) They just nerf everyone elses survivability. Tanks are way too self-sufficient and almost every dps spec with very few exceptions has 2 or more defensive cooldowns. There have been occasions when I died at boss hp 50% and my group managed to kill the boss without me. This shouldn't be possible even in lower keys. b) They buff healer dps and make sure that there are healing checks as well. That way, we will heal when we have to and dps when there is nothing to heal. c) They do absolutely nothing, because up to KSH, healer dps isn't that important anyway. PS: As a hpala main, that is supposedly a melee healer, I want to feel like I'm doing damage when I push buttons. I mean, I am in the fight damn it. I hate it that I do half the dps I can do on my mw monk that is 20ilvl lower and just press spinning crane kick.
Main tank here. Playing non self-sufficient tanks is the worst feeling ever, you feel completely useless and like a punching ball. They tried it before and the number of tank players reduced drastically because literally no one likes that shit. Dps should have less defensives and less self-healing, I think that's almost common knowledge at this point. Both tanks and healers must do meaningful damage (like 60% of a dps). The trinity of "just tank, just heal, just dps" is proven outdated by every modern game, it just doesn't work in fast paced games with lots of mechanics. It would also fix the issue healers have while doing world content, you feel awul or forced to change to a dps spec.
Idk man trying to keep a non self sufficient Tank alive in challenging content is just way too taxing to my mana and rotation. I have to stop my MW monk rotation to pump health into a tank and then my jadefire is down, my chi ji is down and i fall behind on heals. and if i'm out of CD's thats gg for the group. Hate it
Totally agree that your "A" example shouldn't even be possible unless the tank and dps greatly out-gear the content, in which case they didn't need a healer anyway and could eat between fights if needed. As pally tank, I have enjoyed being off-healer on myself or other players to get through content.
Agreed, or provide me with more externals that I can provide that DPS boost through giving out short duration buffs to my party. In terms of Actions per Minute it could be similar but it would be a lot more consistent from a gameplay standpoint. The difference in how you target and cast spells at least for me between healing and dealing damage is just to much to switch back and forth between while also managing health bars. My eyes can only look at so many places at once.
I think healers should be redesigned as Support, like in Overwatch. Obviously not the same game, but there are a lot of similarities in how the roles work. The healer's primary role is to keep everyone alive, but also to buff, support, control, and do some damage. Dump Aug and incorporate a buffing mechanic into all the healers. Talent tree options allow to improve buffing or damage. And maybe an unpopular opinion, but I think tank self healing should be toned down a bit. Call me petty, but if I'm healing, it annoys me to see the tank out heal me. I know I'm not alone there >
Classic resto shaman and holy paladin felt like true support classes. Keeping people alive and using situational buffs with totems/auras was fun as heck. Id love to see one class that could have that vibe again, but I doubt it will ever happen.
The probem right now is that the dmg patterns in most dungeons are heavy burst dmg like in Ruby Life Pools and I simply cant be bothered to tryhard in order to kill 1 miniboss in a + 11 key.Personal defensives need to be heavly nerfed and M+ needs to be balanced more around rot dmg.
I would say that is actually not correct. Lets say your doing RLP on an 11 fortified and inferno goes off (which it always will) and you have to prep your heal/heal dot/sometimes get knocked up and it its a lot fo heal through and you are requiring your DPS to make stops on cinderbolts at the same time cause if any sneak through someone is most likely dead. Or have it your way where it is rot dmg... all that changes is instead of the key level being an 11 its now a 45 where the dmg intake is THE EXACT SAME because its scaling. nothing changes because the key scales forever. this is why the top 0.1% get a title because they are very good at navigating that damage intake.
I have played priest or mistweaver in mythic plus since legion and I have always been happy to dps when there is downtime. It's always just made sense since the golden rule is always be casting. I love healing in this game and I like my healing to be impactful especially in m+ and I do understand where people come from not wanting healer dps to matter quite so much. Especially when people get judged over not having good dps numbers as a healer.
I play healer for the variability. Every BH as tank is virtually identical. Every pull is more or less the same as dps. Healing is dynamic. Part of that is knowing when you need to swap from damage to healing or for a mw, switch to pure healing spells.
I would love for healers to do similar dps to tanks. I am someone who pugs 99% of the time, and it feels like as a healer i have very little impact on the overall success of the key, were there for the heal check and thats it. I just don't understand why we cant do tank level damage, and to the people who just wanna heal, id like to see talents that convert healing into damage.
100%, the DF healer model just does not work for pugging, and you can't do anything to make things "better" as a healer, you are just there to try to keep them from getting worse.
@@BURRDAWG_then your tanks are doing something seriously wrong. As a MW who has 100 dmg parses across multiple dungeons between 10-15, your tanks should never being doing less dmg than you.
The healer role changed. I noticed it when I played Classic for a while. Back then the healer's job was healing and managing their mana. Nowadays it changed to healing and optimizing DPS as the mana is almost always not an issue. I felt more as a healer in Vanilla/Classic than now. The role was strictly defined but there was more downtime/wand time. You had to strategize how much mana you can affort to spend on damage. Now I feel more in a hurry and "forced/expected" to push DPS, but it feels more interactive/support-like.
In Classic it was never about counting how much mana you can spend on doing damage. Log on to classic era now, go into a brd run and see where doing a couple of smites as a priest takes you. Your damage output is basically 0, while forcing you to drink after each pull, so it is pretty much a time waste. Or as a holy paladin you have a great option of right clicking the thing your party is killing. Healer damage in classic just does not exist. You are better off just plain afking or wanding when not healing, than actually pressing smite or wrath or whatever. If anything, classic healing is the most boring stuff I've ever done in this game. The harder struggle is to not fall asleep while spamming your level 1 greater heal,not healing itself Classic andies takes that there was this lost heaven when everything was better are just compete bs.
Healers doing damage is fine, and to put them at tank level is fine, but they should be fairly close together, but it definitely shouldn't be that the healer that's picked is because their dmg profile. My ideal game tbh, would just be hardline holy trinity. I'd like tanks to do no dps, have very little sustain but mitigate more. I'd like healers to do almost no damage, and have utility and endless healing that isn't balanced around mana sustain, and I'd like DPS to have well rounded defensives but no healing. I'd also like every boss to be a DPS heal and tank check. Like bosses should all have enrage timers, and maybe a stacking DoT. That was each role is ridiculously important at what they do, irreplacable, and it isn't just getting to the FFXIV stage where it's green blue and red DPS. It will never happen but I'd love it.
I think the idea of being able to trade healing throughout for damage like with current holy priest is really compelling. I don't think all healers should be designed to heal through executing a DPS rotation because not everyone wants to play that way and it takes something that makes two specs really unique and makes it commonplace. But giving healers the choice to pump damage when they know healing won't be needed really fits with the traditional triage/anticipation/decision making gameplay of healing imo.
i really enjoy the dps component as healer, cause there are big healing checks and balancing dmg and healing gives you more skill ceiling to set yourself apart as a healer. there could be more/harder healing checks though
I've been playing wow since wrath, many CE's with two day raiding, now retired and in midcore m+ (3.3k ish). I don't think healers should have to do it all. I don't want to be measured on my dps. If this was for me I'D PLAY DPS. At the same time, yes in downtimes we dps, we always have - but it should not be material enought to be worth minmaxing. I also would like if there's always some sort of healing nessesary, so you can't easily play four dps. As a healer i don't want to feel like a dead weight. I really don't enjoy the fact, that my scillcap is basically how greedy I am with CD use in healing, so I can send them for dps. I don't want to have to do this (importance of decisionmaking my a**). I want to be the one who "always" has something ready so save the group. (not meainng I sit on my stuff, but roll through it). Last bit: Wow is still an RPG: Meele Healers, who hit something 90% of the time should have a little more dmg. Pure DPS classes should not have much off healing, hybrid classes can bring some etxra group support (boomie, ret..). Also: two many buttons! Full set of healing skills, like 11! cd's and several skills for dps rotation is imensly *cluttered*! If done well, interesting and fun gameplay can be (rather) simple.
I love doing DPS and supporting as a healer. The balance between keeping my party alive just enough to also pump, support and interrupt. That’s why I love Resto shaman. Interrupt, stun, big lava dmg and also. Mega heals when you are at 8% HP from almost dying as cuz you stood in fire or forget to use your defensive and I saved you. 🎉
I've been playing disc in Cata classic, which is when atonement was first introduced. It's super basic back then, smite and holy fire are the only damage spells that convert to healing, you still have the priest healing toolkit like renew, prayer of mending, prayer of healing, flash and greater heal, etc. I'm enjoying it so far as a middle ground where you do some healing via damage, but you regularly use your heals for big damage or group damage as well (supported by the Archangel CD). I haven't tried all the healers yet, but rdruid has a talent to make wrath free, and rsham has a talent to make lightning bolt a mana generator. I personally enjoy having options like those.
I pug 99 percent of the time and man...trusting my dps to to do defensives or interrupt is scary. Can't count the number of times when dps both melee and range do not interrupt and I am caught babysitting them for not mitigating and thats not counting their dungeon awareness of standing in stuff.
I’m not sure how you solve the whole problem, but a quick fix to the “4 dps” issue is to just not allow respecs at all until the key is completely over, or until you leave the group.
I like doing dps as heals in keys, the end goal is a timed key. That means using your toons full toolkit. And i think that goes for every spec & class.
i fully agree with both sides of the alley on this topic i was really hoping that when they introduced aug into the game as a support class, i wish blizzard gave bits an pieces of Augs game play an buffs to healing classes some way to support / buff damage or adding stagger to help push thro big group pulls or massive burst damage. something to give people to heal/support or heal/dps. a support healer class or gameplay would shift the meta an rebalance comps. something like druid buffing Nature damage or trents tanking melee for party members Monks give stagger to party an lets them funnel dps with chili shaman elemental damage + Making earth shield more of a tank buff (like scales) Priest Faster Rez's an give movement speed increase to party with aoe elevate Evoker would get some of augs kit an buffing people with vers or crit something to give people a healing/full dps choice or heal&support
As someone playing relative high keys as Tank, Heal and DPS ( maining always a Healer), we should not think in defined roles like: Oh my Role is x so I just do y. But instead what is the shared goal? which should be to time the key. As a Healer when i can provide DMG so we time the key or just finish 5 min (or more) faster: Great! For me even while playing casual it is more fun to do 6 keys in one session then 4 or 5(in the same time), because i did dmg. Same thinking goes for playing DPS or Tank: Can i use personals, dodge, cc, off heal, despell something while doing the best dmg i can/ surviving: Awesome! I do that not to make the Heal feel useless but rather help him and the grp the same way he helps us with his dmg in return. So I love the different aspects I bring as a healer and are happy to bring my share of dmg to the grp. I think you get my point and i understand that not everybody wants to be fully aware and play to his best abillities while doing keys (true for all 3 roles) and that is ok. But then you could be better of in a lower/mid lvl of Keystones or comunicate with other players about your way of fun.
It's one thing to have players realize every ounce of their potential in the highest difficulties that is what makes the top 5% the top 5%. But this video is talking about game design decisions being made that encourage this gameplay rather than players finding opportunities to participate in it. The game should be fundamentally balanced around the holy trinity of combat and if there are roles that are feeling bored or unchallenging then they need to make decisions that engage those roles more in doing the traditional things those roles do. Role based combat systems isn't supposed to be a generally generic toolkit with minor specialization. It is intended to be highly specialized roles. We've diluted those boundaries too much with giving tanks and healers viable and meaningful damage dealing abilities in group settings as well as by giving anyone other than healers viable and meaningful self sustain heals. In the push to remove the reliance on other players for solo play we've homogenized the gameplay to far in group content.
So far the only one in these comments that made sense. I see a lot of "but i wanna heal not do dmg" ok well now look at it this way. "I wanna deal dps and not dodge swirlies" hmmmmm so maybe we should take the swirlies away while we are at it.
Total tangent experience/thoughts, but my first MMO was actually City of Heroes. It did NOT have the Trinity as WoW knows it (Tank/Heal/DPS) but instead a much, much more fluid system. There were definitely 'tank' classes (Tanker, Brute, the Kheldian/Arachnos epic classes could, and a few odd hybrids) but they were never mandatory. At the same time all melee, and even some of the ranged classes, had a LOT more self-sustain, whether through Defence or Resistance (dodge chance/damage reduction) or sheer healing capability. There were no 'healer'' classes, but Support classes. There were two specs that were mostly straight heals, but even they also featured a heavy buff focus. Others were straight up buff or in fact debuff specs, focussed on crashing either the foes damage, accuracy or defences, or conversely buffing yours through the roof. You could have full teams of just DPS, just Support, or even just tanks if you wanted to Never Ever Die, though it could take an age to kill things. It was a lot of fun. I think that's the main problem; Tanking and Healing, particularly in PUGs, just isn't fun; even as a casual, you're getting barraged by loudmouthed toxic people who expect you to do everything perfectly first time. As someone who has dipped their toe in a few times, only to get burned, what's the incentive to ever try it more, when everyone seems to have this expectation cemented in, and attitude problems to match?
As a resto shaman, while I enjoy healing, I love the utility and DPS I can bring. I'm not running the highest keys, but I'm in the ~10 range at the moment. I certainly can do a flame shock, lava burst here and there, acid rain, and chain lightning when I can afford the cast time. I enjoy that aspect of the game play, but I think it should be a bonus and not purely a requirement to meet DPS checks.
Again if you are not pushing title or bleeding edge 20's right now... your dps doesnt matter. If you are in a ten and its a dps requirement you are all undergeared or have bad rotations.
Because if they force damage profiles so that you always be healing it becomes too stressful and punishing (and key breaking, as if we don't get blamed enough) and if they don't and don't give us DPS tools then with organized CC its better to chain stops and zerg with 4 dps as there is nothing to heal. Healers DPS because damage profiles design shouldnt aim to be too oppresive and we need something to do in between damage events or just low keys, therefore it becomes expected that you will weave those modalities when applicable. Worth noting, healer DPS doesn't matter to run 95% of keys (or more, based on rating cutoffs). And it's just a quirky thing highly coordinated groups do. You can forgo dps healing if that's what you want and get the best gear and portals from M+. Additionally, Tanks and DPS are expected to use their utility including off-healing and dispels so there is that too.
If blizzard didn't want you to deal damage you wouldn't have damage spells in your spell book or talent tree. If they didn't want healers to dps then disc priest wouldn't be in the game. Stop making excuses for being lazy or not wanting to play the game properly.
I'm in the bucket that I only like to heal as a healer. That said that doesn't mean we should be healing 100% of the time. I'm an old time healer, started in TBC. I thoroughly enjoyed what being a healer meant in Cata. Mana costs went through the roof, mana management was key. This was the case going forward until sometime post legion. In my opinion healer should be about keeping party alive and mana management. If you wanna burn mana on DPS go for it.
I agree entirely. If they want to design it where we are forced to expend mana outside those parameters then it should be in buffing and utility. Healing is not an offensive role, it is a maintenance role for the party. I would much rather be providing buffs and removing conditions more actively than needing to provide DPS through actively DPSing. For me personally its a preference to playstyle mechanics. Healing and DPSing are not the same thing. Your forced to swap between unit frame targeting with clicks and mouseovers versus tab or click targeting enemies to target them for spells. Unit frames jump all over. Trying to do that to DPS while also being responsible for making up for other players mistakes as the healer is just simply to much and not enjoyable.
The take of the video is in regards to the highest of keys timed. Its not a reality to what the game actually is. As of right now you can time anything 10 or below fairly easy without have to do a single point of DPS. now if you are trying to be cutting edge and bleeding edge of keys healer dps is now required. Its simple math. more dps mobs die faster you cut the time you time the key.
The lack or healers in starting to be worrying now ( i play a healer ) - we need healers be healers not dps with healing spells. EDIT : Bring back classes that can't play all 3 specs, but just 1
@@popopiidzdsq9079 The lack of healers is because DF is worst when it comes to healer gameplay. It's antifun. Healing was all about triage and resource management, not too stressful as well. They f'ed up the numbers and then design suffered in the form of constant oneshots and big downtimes. The solution is not anti oneshot heals and dps options. The solution is fixing the original f up
As a long time resto druid main, I am a big fan of kitty-weave spec and I'm glad they're fleshing out that hybrid playstyle and giving healing specs more skill expression. I also think Druid is a rare case because the class is SO hybrid compared to other classes. Even a class with all 3 role specs like Paladin feels more 'locked in' to their spec choices/spells whereas Druid's have always been the 'Swiss army knife' class using spells and talents from multiple spec trees throughout their history; it doesn't feel like that much of a stretch to flesh out the dps hybrid playstyle in Druid whereas it might feel more forced in other healing classes. That being said, I feel like this will make a negative impact on anyone who likes to 'just heal'. They will likely get flamed by some sweat group for not putting out DPS especially in higher keys. Ironically, giving people more hybrid choices is going to make it so healers are almost forced into those specs because of meta and viability.
Healing is in many ways a “Pass-Fail” role in mythic+. Did the group survive? Then you successfully healed, regardless of what the hps meter shows. DPS offers a more granular metric for performance, and I appreciate that opportunity for skill expression. Finding space is integrate damage while continuing to meet the pass-fail healing check is where the role really shines, I think.
Doing a lot of higher keys myself I have found the best DPS are the ones who use utility and actually has nothing to do with the meters. Obviously in higher end keys they know the rotation and plan there offensive CD's for packs but its the utility that makes them great. A spriest who does 600k overall with zero fears no silence pops VE for nothing and never presses flash heal/fade/shield during big damage intake or the spriest who does 500k but does everything correct?
Disc Priest and Mistweaver monk are my favorite healers. I think a lot of that has to do with the idea that my damage is also healing so I'm not opposed to healers doing damage (really like hitting Rising Sun Kick and seeing a bunch of green numbers). I think there needs to be a paradigm shift in encounter design: the idea has always been that killing things quickly is always more beneficial than tanking or healing them. I'm no game designer, but couldn't there be mechanics that require coordination rather than just pew pew? could there be more sections of dungeons that require healing of NPCs, like the snake dungeon in BFA, or the Spirit of the Kheldorai in the Amirdrassil Fyrakk fight? If tanks are never subbed for DPS, could encounters include more mechanics that prevent the group from progressing without a healer because the absence of the healer (not just big unavoidable damage) will cause a wipe?
tbh I do not feel at all you don't need to heal in m+ with pugs. It actually feels like i have no time to DPS cause their is constant damage going out due dps not using defensives or interruptus going trough. Sure if i play with premade group i have time to DPS, but realistic seen its like you said its just the top 1% and imo blizzard should not focus on them.
@@Jisei13 i dont think thats entirely true, bosses still require healing. And it also heavily depends on what team setup you run if you can CC-kick all ads always.
But I guess the main issue is people just either getting one shot or drop to 10 +/- HP. Which doesn't give you a feeling of healing. But Blizzard doesn't seem to understand. Giving healers more dps will not resolve that issue. It just makes healing annoying as you constantly have to innerupt your dmg to top someone that stood into something stupid or gives you just an extra button to press >
I really liked to heal in early shadowlands - I mained healer as a Holy Paladin in Nathria (first time maining a healer), and tried again in Dragonflight and hated it. It felt like all of my spells were a small fraction of the health bar and just felt... bad. I switched to Evoker and it felt great - I could actually heal things. I *love* being in melee as a holy paladin, but I don't want that to mean I'm doing a bunch of tiny heals. I want my 3 holy power Light of Dawns to have more than 1% of a tank's health on the tooltip.
Healers “just healing” is a relic of the past. That only worked when mana mattered because your downtime was for mp5. As soon as they made mana not matter it forever changed healing. There is classic era, sod, and Cata classic if that’s your preferred method. Retail is headed in a very different direction for better or worse.
I think this situation emanate from when the tanks were buffed as hell to be near self sufficient. Now you nearly never heal tanks (who are often in front of you in raw healing ...) creating a gap in what healing you need to do compared to old school healing where you had to babysit the tank. Nowadays tanks do close to double your dps while being semigodlike in term of survavibility, resulting in having to only heal DPS when they make mistakes.
Another negative of the tanks being self-suficient is they pay way less attention to the group. They may be able to survive a half dungeon pull, but if all the dps dies than its not really a fun experience. Everyone wants to go fast, but the self-sustaining tanks have made them completely unanswerable to the group. I would fix this by drastically reducing self-healing and increasing mitigation.
So is expected that the most stressful role has to fill 2 roles. The problem is that some healers were designed to heal through damage and it started with discipline priest. and then Holy paladin had to melee to short healing cds and then monk follow suit. It's very difficult to balance all that, with some healers having to dps to heal and other don't. On top of that, the new philosophy of homogenizing roles so all classes can do everything, there is no longer specialization of classes. Personally I prefer the healer to be a support role. Healing, managing resources and buffing the party and debuffing the enemies
@@Exalez Is very rare when that's the case but of course I think is ok to toss some dots and do some dps when possible but what is not ok, it's the meta where the best healer is the one that does more dps.
Theyll never be able to please everyone but imo that's why you see so many classes/playstyles. Imo they should diversify the playstyles/toolkit of the characters even more so that everyone has something meaningful to do during downtime but it doesnt necessarily default to dps. With class fantasy in mind they could even lean into the alternate specs e.g. give preservation evokers the ability to buff players similar to aug
Feels pretty lackluster to dps as healer when you're doing like a fifth of a dps damage, obviously it is better than not doing it but most healers dps "rotation" isn't very interesting either.
Healers want to let Other people shine! Plz Blizz!!! Let healers only Do Healing and if they have time to not heal, let them help the Dds to do more Dmg. !!!!!!!!!!! For example let the shaman give lightning shild to other players like in WC3! Ore give them spirit weppons that hit faster. Let the healer be healer. ❤❤❤
I dont think if the role is "easy" more people will be attracted to the role, so this is probably not the good way. Blizz can try to give us, the "dps with extras" experience, and try to make healers easy. But i rly hope one day the healing will be the main job of healers once again.
I believe they are heading in the right direction, but what I would also do to ensure there is no "degenerate" gameplay is reduce or remove most defensive abilities from the dps (to offset this in pvp, honor talents can also be more defensive focused or an aura "buff" that reduces damage done in pvp or whatever.) and reduce their self healing potential. Once that is done they can then reduce damage output of the dungeon mobs and bosses making it less spiky but decently constant (so that a healer is needed to ensure survival). With these changes you would ensure that a healers input is always needed but not too frustrating and stressful while also allowing that in the meantime they can do damage as a true support spec. They would need to make sure that all of the healer specs have a short, sweet and simple yet rewarding dps loop as to reduce the button bloat. I think these changes would make healing less frustrating and stressful while appealing more to the broader audience, which I am sure loves the "support" playstyle. Thanks for another great video!
I think the key thing to consider here is that tanks and healers are being ask to DPS because the DPS role is saturated with average or below average players. The typical wow player wants the least amount of responsibility and the most fun, so they pick DPS. Tank and healing roles require more skill and responsibility so they attract a different kinds of player. Because of that, you can add more complexity to what they do and they will adapt and respond. They enjoy that. Not so for the average DPS. They will switch to the class that is easier and more fun to play, chasing the "flavor of the month." So Blizz builds the dungeons around what the tanks and healers will do, not the dps.
I think the main issue that people had in S2 dungeon DMG profile was it was so bursty. So healers didn't like it because if they didn't get hp bars to max health then people died which felt awful. Then if there wasn't a big burst coming then healers could DPS. I think the way blizzard could fix this issue is less huge burst moments but much more consistent or rot damage throughout dungeons. This allows healers to be constantly healing without the fear of "if my DPS isn't max hp they die in 2 seconds" and for better players that have a higher skill cap they can weave in damage abilities to min max because there isn't that same fear of "if I use a global on DMG then I'll miss the heal to keep my group alive" this gives a lot more agency and flexibility on the individual choices players have on their actions/rotations in a dungeon
Yeah no I really don't want to deal with rot damage maintenance and still be required to weave in damage. DPS get their chill moments in dungeons between pulls they can't deal damage while the group isn't engaged. But as healers we have groups that have no regard for health pools they can end a pack low health and their moving to engage the rest. While we struggle to keep up, plant and top people off before the next pool. Our downtime is the periods between damage. We don't need to be doing something every single second of the instance. No one else is.
@@sonickatyt not every pull has to be rot damage but it is vital to have damage profile variance in dungeons. Unless you are the hyper top players pushing keys you don't HAVE to weave in damage, that it just something optional that rot damage can allow vs the crazy burst meta that existed in S2. When it comes to downtime for healers the type of damage a mob group puts out won't really affect the "down" periods and once a mob group is dead all the roles have their downtime and if the tank chain pulls, each group is still in the action. It's not like when mobs are at 10% health DPS just stop all damage to walk to the next pull, they keep dpsing while moving, healers keep healing while they move. Roles will still have pretty much the same active periods but the change in dungeon damage profile allows healers to actively fulfill and focus on the role fantasy that is a "healer" because they can be constantly healing during a pull instead of healing hyper burst for 2 seconds then just sit there for 5 seconds which results in them having to DPS because there isn't much else to do
Full group support abilities is the solution, not buffing a single player, but buffs fort the whole group. A channeled spell that increases haste while channeling for instance.
I like healer dps. As long as it's equally spread. Shadowlands was unbalanced with R.Sham & Priest doing the best dps. All healers should be able to do comparable dps.
What if they flip the script of a disc/mist style of play so instead of doing damage to heal you have some specs that ramp their dots/damage for the more healing you do rather than the damage you do on something like a disc priest or mist weaver monk kinda a cool idea imo
Just healing is a relic from when Mana was more of a concern and you had to balance mp5 spirit ticks during downtime, nowadays during downtime you should be doing SOMETHING, and personally knowing when you can dps weave especially on resto druid/holy priest is a fun skill to develop
I like to play Disc. Priest or Resto. Shaman when I am bored with my main but healing is too hard this season. I tried a +2 Ruby with my RS and a M0 BH with my DP, both times I failed miserably. Maybe it is because of lack of interrupts but there were a lot of one shot spells. It was so bas that I felt ashamed. I think healer should be a healer. I mean if I want to DPS I can play a DPS spec. I can enjoy doing dps as a side job but it’s becoming a main goal and it shouldn’t be the focus imo.
I don't play healers but I get having fun filling two roles at once. I remember back in MoP, playing a prot paladin and throwing eternal flame on people with low HP when I had extra Holy Power and I knew the next defensive CD wasn't coming up for a minutes. Being one of the top heals in LFR while tanking was fun.
I haven’t played wow in a long time, and brand new to healing. How are you healing your party without left clicking each person to target them before you heal them?
traditionally they are called mouseover macros, but i know blizz recently added in a mouse over option in the menu so making individual macros isnt required. I would recommend looknig into it, it makes healing much easier
I do enjoy doing some form of DPS as a healer. For me it’s really simple, if the PUG group I’m running with is doing good with mechanics then I do damage. If not, I focus on healing. I honestly have never ran into a situation where I was called out for not doing enough damage as a healer. I try to be self critical of my game play to hopefully improve and really don’t worry about the rest. Hopefully I wasn’t to off point with my input. ;)
Id say Shadowlands was when I noticed as a healer that dpsing as one was desired. Paladin with Venythr Priest with Kyrian druid with Night Fae. I think that using the covenant abilities for damage through that expansion really paved the way for healers to optimize down time by dpsing in high key push.
The problem is more in overmind ground then is rly is in current state. First and most important - current state of healers are Support archetype. So only adding a suport role will fix the problem. Adding a +1slot in group or balancing slot for support class. Plus add a constant mechanic for healers that will not give them time for just spamming dps. For example a little debuff that can be removed only by healer who is attacking the special creature or effect etc. End numbers will not metter - just give them heal something all the time.
When i left wow during legion, as a healer, most of my bar was healing skills. One or two damage skills that would debuff or power something that was healing. I enjoy it so far. I just want to play holy paladin, i enjoy having a decent amount of dps to fight mobs when im questing.
ive really almost always been a dps and switched to healer at the end of season 2. being able to deal damage as a healer especially inn dungeons is a must. i dont really push really high keys, but only healing in dungeons can be boring. possibly having the healers do more damage I think is a good idea
I heal in raids (heroic clears and mythic prog) and aug in m+ (currently 8-10 keys). I'd love to heal in m+ but whenever I do I hate it. It's too fast paced/unpredictable because a wipe can be as simple as a missed interrupt and when others make mistakes you just wait to see a message in chat blaming you for it. doing damage as a healer feels stressful, I feel like I'm constantly in triage mode. ontop of that I'm expected to handle affixes. when I play aug I get to relax and do a key, maybe I'll drop my blossom next to other people or grab someone from a bad situation but other than that I'm minding my own business and throw a few interrupts. It's night and day. raid healing isn't like this at all.
Fairly new, began last season. I almost believe augmentation evoker holds the key to making a fun supportive role for me, i came from league of legends often playing support, the support class is usually there to enable the DPS, and enabling can be interpreted as far more than just healing… This season i’m playing healing as a discipline priest, half of the public groups play well enough i can weave my damage in, the other half requires me to spam heals, so it keeps me on my toes. I think going forward i enjoy having a mix of buffing and healing allies, so i might just go back to augment evoker later on. Edit: i think a key word most supports like to bring is ‘utility’. Buffs, auras, steroids, interupts + defensives + kicks, stealth, teleports, cranking your parties utility up to 11. the goal is to enable members of the party to accomplish far more together than they could individually.
I think if HPS/DPS as a n XY graph. Because of gameplay restrictions and GCD count, there is a direct correlation between these two dynamics. HPS through DPS, DISC, MW, have the same restraints, just at a different point on the graph. Ultimately, as constraints ramp, healers run out of room to press more buttons, so the ones they do press become more exponentially more valuable. No matter the type of healer, there is *always* a best button to push.
Just started healing today actually, was sick of the long ques. I’m absolutely loving it, especially playing with a coordinated group where I’m not responsible for all 314 aspects of a dungeon
I think what healer needs, and to find it attractive it needs a new ui system. I like the idea of picking a class and having various styles of healing through damage like a disc priest, or a pure healer or a support to offer buffs while healing. But say for example, it’s satisfying as a warrior to see the enemy go 20% and execute flash up. If as a healer for example you had a clearer warning or indication big damage was coming to the tank, or a different panel showing the party members with linked in abilities something like a dps has dropped to 20% you can have a big heal button, or can apply a shield to party. More impactful abilities also. But also need to move away from putting a lot on healers such as CC, mandatory damage etc until higher level content and skill level rather than to be expected.
I really like to DPS as a healer. It might be because I am a DPS gone healer, but doing as much damage as possible keeps me engaged. Usually when at farm I very quickly stop playing my healer. If not challenged it is just very dull to heal. On the other hand, S1 and S2 in DF made healing to stressful because the pressure was constant. In a perfect world i would like to be provided with an enganging damage rotations that ties in healing. Like Crusader Strike/Smite increase damage or healing of you next "Heal/Dmg ability with a CD". That way you can optimise with damage spells to complete the loop, or use only healing spells. While only healing spells provide more HPS, keeping everyone alive is what matters and you get encouraged to weave in damage spells. On the other hand, healing big damage events could provide you with meaningful damage moments afterwards. Like getting rapsody stacks on priests for every xy amount healed. So you can build 400 stacks and spend them in aoe in 50 stacks per cast for 8 really powerful aoe globals on a healer (but only after having healed a lot), or spent it on PW:R 200 stacks or something for big bursts of healing that feed into themselves if you need extended healing. I think thats something I would love to see. Because it would put healing front and center with opt in for converting it to damage or more healing for extended damage events. Anyway i am the guy who heals with 2 DPS trinkets if I can get away with it.
Things could go back to the way it used to be and make dps restrain their damage to avoid pulling threat again. I always thought that was better then this easy mode for dps. Make healers focus the tanks again.
I think only healing is not possible to balance. But there should always be two options for healers to distribute their talents. Either do damage yourself in addition to healing or strengthen the group with buffs/debuff enemies. For example, druids could distribute buffs that scale with the number of ticking hots, shamis could provide cooldown-based buff totems, etc.
I don't dislike healer as a support role - doing dps, affixes, and cc is all pretty fun for me. But it does result in a lot of binds, macros, targeting, and new skills for a lot of players. Especially with the new talents giving you so many options, I'd like to see them simplify their kits a bit like they did with Disc (and personally that also means PvP talents!). This expac we needed binds for bash and typhoon and maim and savage roar at the same time, even if you don't always play them all. I even played mending on my disc in pvp cus it had some advantages. I know these are my choises but feeling like it is acessible to do dps and cc is important. Evoker is the sweet spot for me but now they're even getting a new ability that can be used both of enemies and allies with hero talents.
We could also include mana management as a more active component such that healers don't alternate between DPSing and healing but rather healing and.Mana management such that healing doesn't become overly tedious but also doesn't allow for DPS
I mainly tank, but I usually play a heal-alt. As a healer, i've personally had the most fun when I had damage impact similar to tanks. Right now in Dragonflight, i've not played healer as much, because the impact i have doesn't feel great. you're only really required for a few certain pulls in a dungeon, the rest of the dungeon you might as well play DPS. and you would if you could, if spec-swapping inside of M+ was possible. the most fun i've had as a healer is when i played Ele Shaman in SL S2. yes, Elemental Shaman. as a healer. In Shadowlands with the legendary "Chains of Devastation", which made Chain Heal mana-free for Ele shamans. and they had a surprising amount of heal support in talents, conduits, etc. i've played my Ele-shaman-healer in keys up to +23/+24, which was really quite good at the time, as i made title on my bear tank with +26/+27s. that was about the limit though as after those key levels i just lacked HPS (and a magic dispel) to be able to heal higher keys. but damn were those keys fun. they felt extremely fast because i was doing 80-90% of a DPS. my ST dmg wasnt great, but damn did i speed up all of the AoE pulls ;D best feeling was always when we were only 4 friends and invited a pug, and in the middle of the key they asked "we don't have a healer lol?", but not because we wiped or anything, but because it just felt fishy to them how quick stuff was dying and then they looked at their details window. :D losing the Chains of Devastation legendary has definitely been my greatest personal loss going from SL into DF. :P (if you dont believe me, check out raider dot io /characters/eu/blackmoore/Kalria?season=season-sl-2) so anyways, point being i think they absolutely need to increase healer impact outside of healing. imo the best idea would be to have aug-style buffs for healers to augment their group instead of them having to deal damage themselves. but it's not going to happen. so the most realistic choice we have is to up the damage levels of healers to be similar to tanks again, so we can feel impactful again even in pulls where no healing is required.
I miss harder healing days. I push my heals for top of charts, but now I kinda stand there not doing anything, until I remember to do some dps. bring back healer healing.
I main a preservation evoker & I like being able to dps in between heals. I have the tome trinket & it's really nice when it procs. I like the mix of being able to heal & dps. If World of Warcraft changed it to only healing, I would be very sad, to be honest. I've tried being the only one alive, having to dps the boss to try finish the dungeon. If I haven't had those dps abilities, the mythic + dungeon wouldn't have been finished in time. In a perfect scenario, this wouldn't have been necessary, but sometimes everything just doesn't go as planned.
My first 60 ever was a resto Night elf Druid. And I mained healing for quite a while in wow... i remember how in combat you really had to worry about going OOM.... like that was the issue as a healer. And so you got better gear and then your mana could last those epic fights. It was a battle of stamina. Nowadays its a battle of split second reactions or idk i dont heal anymore....
What I'd like to see tried is the possibility of some talents/abilities that convert healing or overhealing into damage. Maybe something like 60% of your overhealing done to a target pulses for damage split between the mobs around it. Obviously the numbers would need to be balanced but it's something that might allow 'pure' healers to feel like they're contributing to their groups success during periods of low damage. We already have some abilities that do dmg and healing and these often feel good to push but they tend to be tuned pretty low. What would be awesome is being able to press something like Divine Hymn and if the party is full health have it become a massive dps burst.
This might also resolve an issue where, when climbing keys as a pug healer, progression feels a bit odd. Currently there's a weird low spot between like +6 to +9 (it changes over the season) where most players know mechanics but heal and dps checks are not super stressful yet and as a healer you just feel pretty low impact. You're not saving newbies from mistakes in lower keys or meeting the actual scary heal checks in higher keys. If you could just do a ton of overhealing (and therefore dmg) in these farm keys it would feel more like being a good healer in those contexts is contributing towards the group's success (and letting you farm them more efficiently).
I do enjoydpsing as a healer. Just hope they keep it simple. 3-4 buttons max and no crazy dot rotation plus a window of huge pumping we have to meet. Keep our numbers around tanks dps level.
In Final Fantasy XIV you aren't really so much a "hybrid" spec. You have a simple DPS rotation, usually consisting of an instant DoT and a spammable spell with a cast time which is shorter than your GCD. You then have many different healing spells which are off GCD (oGCD) that you can weave in that empty zone between the cast finishing and the GCD being over. You also have some healing abilities that use the GCD. The goal for healers is to use every GCD you can for damage and only heal via oGCDs. There are some, long cooldown abilities that do both damage and healing and one case where a healing ability has a damage benefit. But there isn't the hybrid style in WoW where your damage and healing are connected as your main way of healing (Disc/Fistweaving). You just kind of manage two rotations simultaneously. As for myself, I like to do DPS as a healer, as long as one of the following criteria are met: That DPS feeds into my healing by healing directly (Disc/Fistweaver style) Does a considerable amount of damage Generates resources or buffs for my other healing, or have some other fun interaction with my kit. Like as Holy Priest Smite, Holy Fire and Chastise aren't so fun to press, the latter does spawn a snowflake that buffs your next casts but, so almost gets a pass. But if Smite added a second to every HoT I have active, Holy Fire caused every PoM to trigger and jump without consuming a charge and Chastise caused healing eruptions on all targets with HoTs or PoM on them, that'd be a lot more fun. In the case of Holy Priest, I don't necessarily think those buttons should be a healing benefit over casting a healing spell, but as a way to relcaim some of the time spent DPSing as healing throughput. (Plus it'd be great to have a way to move PoMs off people who they might expire on)
I enjoy doing some damage as a healer. Dealing damage, however, should be a smaller fraction of the dungeon/raid. They need more consistent damage but nothing crazy. My main grievance is how much healing is now predictive instead of proactive and reactive. Personally, I have been healing since Cata and started doing damage as a healer in the same expansion, encouraged by the Amani bear timed run and carrying dps who lacked damage in the 'Hour of Twilight'(?) dungeons.
I strongly believe the first step in making healers feel like their healing is meaningful and give the role of healer agency over the healing of a group (which it does not feel like they do most of the time in dungeons) is to take away at least half the defensives from all classes including off-healing of off-healing specs (which also would help with the reduction of button bloat for many classes), increase hp of everyone by 30% or more and increase the amount of smaller damaging abilities throughout instanced content that includes the healer role in. This does a few things: healers will feel their healing is more meaningful because they feel like they are keeping the group alive not the rest of the group using defensives/off-healing to avoid damage or selfheal/offheal, more healing will be required due to higher health pools and increased amount of smaller damage abilities, reduces the yoyo'ing of health pools which is exctremely offputting and annoying to new healers and even old healers, dps will not be a huge requirement since there will be more healing uptime required, and Blizzard will not need to make nearly as many hard hitting abilities as there is now because of the reduction of defensives which in turn also increases healer engagement and role satisfaction for them. I also think using grievious is a bad example as I don't think it was balanced correctly. It hit way too hard on higher stacks and the 90% health requirement felt bad to heal. As to healer DPS...pandora's box was opened long ago and don't think it would be good to take that away now. I do not want to dps as a healer personally and would prefer it be gone but it's wrong to take it away now because of all the healers that do enjoy that playstyle. One idea I had for helping with this dilemma would be to somehow make it a choice whether to actively dps as a healer or give all heals passive damaging effects (like if i heal someone it takes x% of that healing and applies damage to the closest (or all?) non-cc target(s) in combat with you. This would could be a talent like "Reduce all active damage abilities by 99% and x% of all healing done will replicate as damage to all nearby enemies in combat". Obviously this would require alot of playtesting and balancing but I can't think of another way that would balance dps'ing healers and nondps'ing healers because... why would a group want a non dps healer if they can get the same healing from someone who also does dps, but that is not fair to all the healers that do not enjoy that playstyle as imho it is a "Healer" role not a "Healer/Damage" role. I do think though that both playstyles should be accepted as gold standards but is very difficult to do so as healers are now. For the should healers change specs during a run they could just not allow you to enter again after leaving the dungeon...if they really didn't want these playstyles to be a thing it's fairly simple and doesn't have to conflict with any other changes. I think if healing agency and required heal throughput is overall increased though, I don't think 4 dps 1 tank playstyle will work well though so this "issue" would be a nonissue (either not able to be done that way or very very rare to be able to be effective)
Do you enjoy healer DPS or against it? 🤔
Probleme is not really dps, but all together. Today healer must heal, dps, interupt if possible, manage affixs, manage other players errors and all this with 30 000 addons. Its not that it can't be fun, hard can be fun. But not all the time. Games must be fun, not only chalenging.
I remember when healer role was to heal and manage mana. Off course its not bad to have more things to do, but it was not so bad too to just heal and manage mana. There must be a middle ground between two extremes. Right now most of healers i know are just tired of all information they must manage and play others roles.
I like when healer damage is more of a thing, and healing is less pushed to the limit. I mostly pug, the more my damage matters and the less my healing matters the better. When healers are tuned like they are for all of DF it makes healing pugs pretty miserable.
I've played all three roles as my main and I can appreciate them for what they are. If I sign up for healing, I fully expect to heal. If I'm relying on the tank to provide his own mitigation, DR, and self-heals so that I can DPS, then I'm not a healer. I'm just another DPS. I'm already asked to do all of the things DPS is asked to do plus a ton of other tasks that get in the way of healing. Either you have a healer role, or you do not. I don't believe there is a middle ground.
Yes. I love the concept of healing in the least GCDs as possible to pump as much dps as possible. This efficiency game is the most fun part about healing along with lining up cooldown with heal checks to maximize dps.
Personally as a resto Druid that’s been healing since vanilla I despise being forced to do dps. It makes M+ less desirable to do. That’s why I prefer raid healing where I’m able to heal basically the entire time.
I personally used to enjoy and miss having to actually heal the tank. Dungeons used to be more about keeping the tank alive and praying they pull sensibly and less on healing dps who make mistakes or are getting targeted by things that will kill them or close to in one hit. I wish they would bring that back tbh because that is when I enjoyed healing the most.
In the great BFA cinematic we did not see Anduin cast a mass dps spell, it was a mass healing spell. Super iconic healer moment and players want to act that out in their game play.
Either evolve the gameplay into a more interesting support role that replaces the need for doing direct damage or make changes to dungeon game play that doesn’t encourage healers to dps so much.
You can make the game more interesting without the need of doing more damage.
Bfa #1 xpac hands down. VERY balanced. Not sure why people didn’t like it, the dungeons, raids, mechanics, and even towards the end the corruption felt really good and it didn’t take them guessing on what to do they implemented it and it WORKED there wasn’t a million patches or nerfing this nerfing that a million times. It just worked. I played 12+ hours a day back then couldn’t get me off the game until sl was released and I was gone after doing a +20 first week after maxing. Bfa was good higher content felt like higher content lower content felt like learning for higher content.
I play tank, dps, and heal. And healing definitely has an unfair amount of responsibility in dungeons. As dps, i can just pump up my perf and throw out some interrupts. On my healer, i have to dps, heal, interrupt, decurse, and most of the more difficult affixes effect healers. I used to be a healer first and then would play other alts. Now i main more dps cause it's easier to get on and have an easy couple mythics and get off. While on heals, i pretty much have to be on top of my game all the time. I can't have easy mythics unless i do lower keys, but then what is the point.
Instead of making healers do everything, maybe make dps do it. Take away my interrupts and my decursing. Put that all on the dps. Then i will dps and heal. But dont make me do it all
Fully agree with one of the other comments. If we are going away from being a 'healer' then let it be to feeling like support. I don't want to nuke the enemy, I want to buff my team and/or debuff the enemy to feel like I am supporting my team.
That's the internal satisfaction I get playing this class in video games. Seeing my DPS numbers spike doesn't give me a lot of satisfaction, but knowing I allowed my team to pump up their own numbers does.
This is exactly why I switched from Healer to Augmentation Evoker. When high uptime damage starts feeling mandatory for a healer it's no-longer enjoyable for me to 'heal'.
100% agree, I hate it to deal damage as a Healer.
In MOP Remix, I run a party support set of tinkers as rsham and it feels amazing. I'm giving the party haste, shields, improving their damage, making mobs take more damage from the party, etc. I'd be up for more support options in Retail (but I do NOT want to be tossing the new potions at party members).
yup! strong agree. Feeling important as a healer/support regardless of your individual dps numbers but how impactfull the things are that you do is what makes it feel like you're amazing as a healer
I believe that healers are support classes, and that's what I want to play. I wish healers instead of being expected to do damage in so called downtime/low damage phases, we were given abilities to actively buff our groups or debuff the enemies and help out in other ways then damage. The mentality has been for a long time just pulling more and killing faster is the best strat, and with most dps classes having alot of healing themselves, I feel like true support healers are being phased out.
Agree 100%
You can still play healers like that just fine right now. On the cutting edge content, everyone needs to use every tool they have. Outside of that, not so much.
As keys get higher, survivability is the best strategy
Totally. I don’t play healer to worry about dps. I’m happy to do it so I can contribute but it’s not what I WANT
You can support your team by doing dps though. No one likes healers that go afk when there's no dmg going out or they just spam heals on full hp targets...
You are so self aware of your own healing experience relative to newer/more casual players. I appreciate you taking the time to discuss both casual and sweaty points of view ❤
100% this! ❤👌
I would like to see a combo support role - as a healer I would love to see some of the augmentation from aug evoker + healing together so that instead of DPSing, you're healing and augmenting. That would be a FUN class.
Yeah that is what I was going to comment here . Buffing your allies with damage buffs feels much more of a thing that a healer would do than doing the damage yourself
Idk why people are trying to say these things. We didn’t have issues in the past. Why move another direction? Healers are healers and they have some dps spells, heal and throw some damage out when you can. Simple. No need to move any other direction, it’s been this way since the beginning, healing has just never been so low in numbers previously. Keep it the same, increase healing numbers and health pools to damage in dungeons or raids so that way it balances out and you can actually heal. If you played bfa what so ever, you’d know healing was extremely balanced and so was damage taken. If you ever did a high key or even a low key in ur and you didn’t run mechanics you’re dead or nearly dead if healer can’t top you up quick enough. Last boss, you’re for sure dead if you’re not cleaning pools because the damage is so high that you run out of mana. It’s a mechanic check and heal check. Healers right now, are not needed, if we focus on healing numbers and not level squishing and not hp squishing and giving people more hp to work with, and lowering mitigation and self healing for tanks and dps, HEALER role becomes important again just as tank role is just as DPS role is. Support healers shouldn’t really be the move, fixing the spec, making it useful again, is what needs to happen.
Im a healer. Let me heal. I heard the dratnos podcast crews say to let healers focus on healing and put more consistent damage on the group. I personally would also like to have the responsibility of healing the tank as well. Focusing on me and the 4 dps on massive burst damage with a lot of 1 shots isn’t fun. I picked the game back up since I was a kid in dragon flight s3 so maybe this is just a “new” perspective. I haven’t been through all the xpacs and seasons most people have, but this is how I remember healing was as a kid and thought it was the fun part of the roll
If they want healers to dps they have to balance it.
Take hpala (current state, I know it was op s2), you have to pop 3 offensive cds (wings + dt + daybreak) to do less dmg on a pack then a rdruid without cds or a shmana does just dropping rain.
Some healers do more dmg without sacrificing cds then classes that do.
On top of this, some healers go oom or net negative mana while dpsing, while other healers can spam a st or aoe dmg event while being mana net zero.
its entierly unbalanced if this si the approach they want.
couldent agree more
Using the data from Archon (Old Subcreation) so how accurate that is I can't comment. But it has HPS and DPS rankings for all healers in M+. And for keys 10+ Holy priest is doing is doing around 1.8x the damage of a Hpala which does the worst damage.
let me start with this. they should kill 4dpsing dungeons. dont allow spec swapping. that whole concept is trash.
I do think healer dps is great for dungeon enviroment and balanced playstyle is acutally fun. However if gameplay is intended to do damage they need to provide a basic dps rotation for healers. Resto druid with cat weaving is great example of fleshed out healer with dps a rotation.
I do think blizzard missed the mark for dungeons in dragonflight. this isnt just healer problems its M+ problems. M+ timers are so loose that Damage and healing dont matter. its just about getting past 1 shots. you can run 4 dps comps cause there zero rot damage in dungeons. you can run 4 dps comps cause there enough stops that mobs do nothing if controlled properly. Dragonflight currently tanks provide more sustain to group then a healer does. The healing requirement in a group really doesnt go up with key level.
I personally think balanced playstyle of healer should stay, healing as whole in dungeons needs to be reworked. THere should be more damage profiles in dungeons then just did you survive the 1 shot mechanic that exceeds your hp bar. They should tighten timers again for dungeons so healing, sustain , damage all matter. Lets get away from this 1 shot meta.
Buffs needs to go away in 5mans they are horrible for getting to play healer we want. we are getting forced on certain healers cause of buffs.
I also wish DPS gameplay was much equally fun and interesting for all healers.
and lets be honest, balancing is not blizzards strong point. I have no faith in them being able to balance this.
i dont mind doing dps as a healer but it was never balanced which made it depressing playing the low dps healer
Especially when Hpals and mistweavers have actually dps mechanics yet deal much less than those who don’t.
@@jamiesontu7944 exactly i mained R shaman for 4 years now and R druid for 8, first season i ever play a Hpala and got damn was that a mistake i have to have a perfect rotation and CD usage JUST to do garbage DPS , meanwhile on my shammy , healing rain+ chain lightning sometimes makes me do as much DPS as actual DPS classes
Same, I also dont like being expected to pump big damage, but hit big healing checks, and do the affixes. All at once. That's been steadily driving me away from the role. I've played half of season 3 and currently as a ret pally and having a blast. I can do damage, but also off heal in a pinch.
best comment so far
@@jamiesontu7944hpal doesn’t really NEED damage they do damage to proc their abilities to heal more. I think you’re playing your class wrong their buddy, it’s a healer/ dps of course they don’t do as much damage as a dps.
Im the kind of healer who dosnt like to go dps, i came from main resto druid for 10 years, with alittle of shammy on the side. And because people always talked about healer dps, i swapped to MW monk, because ,then im "forced" to do some dps in order to heal, this has worked really great for me. Monks dosent do the best dps, but when i follow my "rotation" dmg -> healing, it is what it is, and i dont feel i struggle to heal and dps at the same time.
Looking at moving to MW this expansion myself, coming from maining druid. Love the idea of form weaving but just can't keep up anymore, too tired and older haha
And your take is perfectly fine to do keys with no DPS... Just ignore the part about top .1% doing 4 dps and all the other things madskillz said about the TOP TOP players. to time the highest keys you need to do dmg. You are fighting the clock and how do you fight it? You down the mobs and bosses as fast as possible and how do you do that?.... you DPS. If you are looking into more casual key levels you do you and there is nothing wrong with sitting back and chillin.
I like the monk healer too, but I really feel that if I don't have a melee group to work with, the shifting back and forth between melee and ranged healing causes too many issues for me.
@@silentdocsihreen1912 in my experience this isnt really a problem unless you have hunters in your group, as apparently they all get a memo telling them to stand in narnia. (at least on MW)
What if heals and specifically overheals caused that player to get a dps boost? Like purposely overhealing to boost raw dps for your party? IDK
I came from a time where Healers healed with the added responsibility to CC. i stand by that. I main a healer, if i wanted to dps i'd main a dps.
so many people dont get that to the point that every roll is turning into dps with extra responsibilities apart form the og dps healers have to dps heal interupt cover up for the dps that brain afk and stand in all kind of shit on top dealing with as many as possible of the other mechanics so dps can have the least amount of things to do kinda depressing
completely true
Yeah the whole "constantly healing throughout fights will drive healers away" point was just crazy to me. If I want to press buttons to make health go down for an entire fight, I'll play DPS. If I want to do the same thing but make health go up, I'll play healer. Nobody playing healer is unhappy that they have to heal a lot, that's the whole point of the role. If they don't like it, why tf are they playing healer?
There are 3 ways to deal with this
a) They just nerf everyone elses survivability. Tanks are way too self-sufficient and almost every dps spec with very few exceptions has 2 or more defensive cooldowns. There have been occasions when I died at boss hp 50% and my group managed to kill the boss without me. This shouldn't be possible even in lower keys.
b) They buff healer dps and make sure that there are healing checks as well. That way, we will heal when we have to and dps when there is nothing to heal.
c) They do absolutely nothing, because up to KSH, healer dps isn't that important anyway.
PS: As a hpala main, that is supposedly a melee healer, I want to feel like I'm doing damage when I push buttons. I mean, I am in the fight damn it. I hate it that I do half the dps I can do on my mw monk that is 20ilvl lower and just press spinning crane kick.
Main tank here. Playing non self-sufficient tanks is the worst feeling ever, you feel completely useless and like a punching ball. They tried it before and the number of tank players reduced drastically because literally no one likes that shit.
Dps should have less defensives and less self-healing, I think that's almost common knowledge at this point.
Both tanks and healers must do meaningful damage (like 60% of a dps). The trinity of "just tank, just heal, just dps" is proven outdated by every modern game, it just doesn't work in fast paced games with lots of mechanics. It would also fix the issue healers have while doing world content, you feel awul or forced to change to a dps spec.
Idk man trying to keep a non self sufficient Tank alive in challenging content is just way too taxing to my mana and rotation. I have to stop my MW monk rotation to pump health into a tank and then my jadefire is down, my chi ji is down and i fall behind on heals. and if i'm out of CD's thats gg for the group. Hate it
I should add that this feels so bad I refuse to play with any tank that isn't a DK or VDH
@@TheRoadrunnerguy all tanks are self-sufficient atm. Only bad players are not.
Totally agree that your "A" example shouldn't even be possible unless the tank and dps greatly out-gear the content, in which case they didn't need a healer anyway and could eat between fights if needed.
As pally tank, I have enjoyed being off-healer on myself or other players to get through content.
Healing seems so stressing compared to the other roles;o think they should buff it, and then Nerf tanks selfhealing.
I'd like it if healers instead of doing damage, had an external Buff gameplay loop. Like Aug.
and maybe get rid of aug in the process. I like this.
exactly, overhealing should be converted into some form of stat boost for everyone
Agreed, or provide me with more externals that I can provide that DPS boost through giving out short duration buffs to my party. In terms of Actions per Minute it could be similar but it would be a lot more consistent from a gameplay standpoint. The difference in how you target and cast spells at least for me between healing and dealing damage is just to much to switch back and forth between while also managing health bars. My eyes can only look at so many places at once.
I think healers should be redesigned as Support, like in Overwatch. Obviously not the same game, but there are a lot of similarities in how the roles work. The healer's primary role is to keep everyone alive, but also to buff, support, control, and do some damage. Dump Aug and incorporate a buffing mechanic into all the healers. Talent tree options allow to improve buffing or damage. And maybe an unpopular opinion, but I think tank self healing should be toned down a bit. Call me petty, but if I'm healing, it annoys me to see the tank out heal me. I know I'm not alone there >
Classic resto shaman and holy paladin felt like true support classes. Keeping people alive and using situational buffs with totems/auras was fun as heck. Id love to see one class that could have that vibe again, but I doubt it will ever happen.
The probem right now is that the dmg patterns in most dungeons are heavy burst dmg like in Ruby Life Pools and I simply cant be bothered to tryhard in order to kill 1 miniboss in a + 11 key.Personal defensives need to be heavly nerfed and M+ needs to be balanced more around rot dmg.
I would say that is actually not correct. Lets say your doing RLP on an 11 fortified and inferno goes off (which it always will) and you have to prep your heal/heal dot/sometimes get knocked up and it its a lot fo heal through and you are requiring your DPS to make stops on cinderbolts at the same time cause if any sneak through someone is most likely dead. Or have it your way where it is rot dmg... all that changes is instead of the key level being an 11 its now a 45 where the dmg intake is THE EXACT SAME because its scaling. nothing changes because the key scales forever. this is why the top 0.1% get a title because they are very good at navigating that damage intake.
Sick of dying from healers being too busy dpsing. Also not dpsing because I have to heal myself cuz the damn healer is dpsing
That's just bad players.
I have played priest or mistweaver in mythic plus since legion and I have always been happy to dps when there is downtime. It's always just made sense since the golden rule is always be casting. I love healing in this game and I like my healing to be impactful especially in m+ and I do understand where people come from not wanting healer dps to matter quite so much. Especially when people get judged over not having good dps numbers as a healer.
I play healer for the variability. Every BH as tank is virtually identical. Every pull is more or less the same as dps. Healing is dynamic. Part of that is knowing when you need to swap from damage to healing or for a mw, switch to pure healing spells.
I would love for healers to do similar dps to tanks. I am someone who pugs 99% of the time, and it feels like as a healer i have very little impact on the overall success of the key, were there for the heal check and thats it. I just don't understand why we cant do tank level damage, and to the people who just wanna heal, id like to see talents that convert healing into damage.
Agreed, I play fistweaver which makes me feel like I do dmg before I'm in there punching mobs lol (even if it's actually only 40-50k dps)
100%, the DF healer model just does not work for pugging, and you can't do anything to make things "better" as a healer, you are just there to try to keep them from getting worse.
I outdps every tank except vdh as a resto sham and resto druid
If you want more agency I would say rsham is the thing for you. I feel like I carry keys sometimes with all they can do!
@@BURRDAWG_then your tanks are doing something seriously wrong. As a MW who has 100 dmg parses across multiple dungeons between 10-15, your tanks should never being doing less dmg than you.
The healer role changed. I noticed it when I played Classic for a while. Back then the healer's job was healing and managing their mana. Nowadays it changed to healing and optimizing DPS as the mana is almost always not an issue. I felt more as a healer in Vanilla/Classic than now. The role was strictly defined but there was more downtime/wand time. You had to strategize how much mana you can affort to spend on damage. Now I feel more in a hurry and "forced/expected" to push DPS, but it feels more interactive/support-like.
In Classic it was never about counting how much mana you can spend on doing damage. Log on to classic era now, go into a brd run and see where doing a couple of smites as a priest takes you. Your damage output is basically 0, while forcing you to drink after each pull, so it is pretty much a time waste. Or as a holy paladin you have a great option of right clicking the thing your party is killing. Healer damage in classic just does not exist. You are better off just plain afking or wanding when not healing, than actually pressing smite or wrath or whatever. If anything, classic healing is the most boring stuff I've ever done in this game. The harder struggle is to not fall asleep while spamming your level 1 greater heal,not healing itself Classic andies takes that there was this lost heaven when everything was better are just compete bs.
healer is such an odd role. but i love it all, support player at heart
Every healer should be able to do the same amount of damage as a tank or a bit less, actually its like tanks doing double amount of damage
Or no dps
@@puidldoc4913 what are you doing outside of damage moments?
@@0grdt recovering bruh
Healers doing damage is fine, and to put them at tank level is fine, but they should be fairly close together, but it definitely shouldn't be that the healer that's picked is because their dmg profile.
My ideal game tbh, would just be hardline holy trinity. I'd like tanks to do no dps, have very little sustain but mitigate more. I'd like healers to do almost no damage, and have utility and endless healing that isn't balanced around mana sustain, and I'd like DPS to have well rounded defensives but no healing. I'd also like every boss to be a DPS heal and tank check.
Like bosses should all have enrage timers, and maybe a stacking DoT. That was each role is ridiculously important at what they do, irreplacable, and it isn't just getting to the FFXIV stage where it's green blue and red DPS. It will never happen but I'd love it.
I think the idea of being able to trade healing throughout for damage like with current holy priest is really compelling. I don't think all healers should be designed to heal through executing a DPS rotation because not everyone wants to play that way and it takes something that makes two specs really unique and makes it commonplace. But giving healers the choice to pump damage when they know healing won't be needed really fits with the traditional triage/anticipation/decision making gameplay of healing imo.
i really enjoy the dps component as healer, cause there are big healing checks and balancing dmg and healing gives you more skill ceiling to set yourself apart as a healer. there could be more/harder healing checks though
I've been playing wow since wrath, many CE's with two day raiding, now retired and in midcore m+ (3.3k ish). I don't think healers should have to do it all. I don't want to be measured on my dps. If this was for me I'D PLAY DPS.
At the same time, yes in downtimes we dps, we always have - but it should not be material enought to be worth minmaxing. I also would like if there's always some sort of healing nessesary, so you can't easily play four dps. As a healer i don't want to feel like a dead weight.
I really don't enjoy the fact, that my scillcap is basically how greedy I am with CD use in healing, so I can send them for dps. I don't want to have to do this (importance of decisionmaking my a**). I want to be the one who "always" has something ready so save the group. (not meainng I sit on my stuff, but roll through it).
Last bit: Wow is still an RPG: Meele Healers, who hit something 90% of the time should have a little more dmg. Pure DPS classes should not have much off healing, hybrid classes can bring some etxra group support (boomie, ret..).
Also: two many buttons! Full set of healing skills, like 11! cd's and several skills for dps rotation is imensly *cluttered*! If done well, interesting and fun gameplay can be (rather) simple.
What's wrong with wanting to play a healer as a healer and not a DPS/support class?
I love doing DPS and supporting as a healer. The balance between keeping my party alive just enough to also pump, support and interrupt. That’s why I love Resto shaman. Interrupt, stun, big lava dmg and also. Mega heals when you are at 8% HP from almost dying as cuz you stood in fire or forget to use your defensive and I saved you. 🎉
I've been playing disc in Cata classic, which is when atonement was first introduced. It's super basic back then, smite and holy fire are the only damage spells that convert to healing, you still have the priest healing toolkit like renew, prayer of mending, prayer of healing, flash and greater heal, etc. I'm enjoying it so far as a middle ground where you do some healing via damage, but you regularly use your heals for big damage or group damage as well (supported by the Archangel CD).
I haven't tried all the healers yet, but rdruid has a talent to make wrath free, and rsham has a talent to make lightning bolt a mana generator. I personally enjoy having options like those.
I pug 99 percent of the time and man...trusting my dps to to do defensives or interrupt is scary. Can't count the number of times when dps both melee and range do not interrupt and I am caught babysitting them for not mitigating and thats not counting their dungeon awareness of standing in stuff.
I’m not sure how you solve the whole problem, but a quick fix to the “4 dps” issue is to just not allow respecs at all until the key is completely over, or until you leave the group.
I like doing dps as heals in keys, the end goal is a timed key. That means using your toons full toolkit. And i think that goes for every spec & class.
i fully agree with both sides of the alley on this topic i was really hoping that when they introduced aug into the game as a support class, i wish blizzard gave bits an pieces of Augs game play an buffs to healing classes some way to support / buff damage or adding stagger to help push thro big group pulls or massive burst damage. something to give people to heal/support or heal/dps. a support healer class or gameplay would shift the meta an rebalance comps. something like
druid buffing Nature damage or trents tanking melee for party members
Monks give stagger to party an lets them funnel dps with chili
shaman elemental damage + Making earth shield more of a tank buff (like scales)
Priest Faster Rez's an give movement speed increase to party with aoe elevate
Evoker would get some of augs kit an buffing people with vers or crit
something to give people a healing/full dps choice or heal&support
As someone playing relative high keys as Tank, Heal and DPS ( maining always a Healer), we should not think in defined roles like: Oh my Role is x so I just do y.
But instead what is the shared goal? which should be to time the key.
As a Healer when i can provide DMG so we time the key or just finish 5 min (or more) faster: Great! For me even while playing casual it is more fun to do 6 keys in one session then 4 or 5(in the same time), because i did dmg.
Same thinking goes for playing DPS or Tank: Can i use personals, dodge, cc, off heal, despell something while doing the best dmg i can/ surviving: Awesome! I do that not to make the Heal feel useless but rather help him and the grp the same way he helps us with his dmg in return. So I love the different aspects I bring as a healer and are happy to bring my share of dmg to the grp.
I think you get my point and i understand that not everybody wants to be fully aware and play to his best abillities while doing keys (true for all 3 roles) and that is ok. But then you could be better of in a lower/mid lvl of Keystones or comunicate with other players about your way of fun.
It's one thing to have players realize every ounce of their potential in the highest difficulties that is what makes the top 5% the top 5%. But this video is talking about game design decisions being made that encourage this gameplay rather than players finding opportunities to participate in it. The game should be fundamentally balanced around the holy trinity of combat and if there are roles that are feeling bored or unchallenging then they need to make decisions that engage those roles more in doing the traditional things those roles do. Role based combat systems isn't supposed to be a generally generic toolkit with minor specialization. It is intended to be highly specialized roles. We've diluted those boundaries too much with giving tanks and healers viable and meaningful damage dealing abilities in group settings as well as by giving anyone other than healers viable and meaningful self sustain heals. In the push to remove the reliance on other players for solo play we've homogenized the gameplay to far in group content.
So far the only one in these comments that made sense. I see a lot of "but i wanna heal not do dmg" ok well now look at it this way. "I wanna deal dps and not dodge swirlies" hmmmmm so maybe we should take the swirlies away while we are at it.
Total tangent experience/thoughts, but my first MMO was actually City of Heroes.
It did NOT have the Trinity as WoW knows it (Tank/Heal/DPS) but instead a much, much more fluid system. There were definitely 'tank' classes (Tanker, Brute, the Kheldian/Arachnos epic classes could, and a few odd hybrids) but they were never mandatory. At the same time all melee, and even some of the ranged classes, had a LOT more self-sustain, whether through Defence or Resistance (dodge chance/damage reduction) or sheer healing capability.
There were no 'healer'' classes, but Support classes. There were two specs that were mostly straight heals, but even they also featured a heavy buff focus. Others were straight up buff or in fact debuff specs, focussed on crashing either the foes damage, accuracy or defences, or conversely buffing yours through the roof.
You could have full teams of just DPS, just Support, or even just tanks if you wanted to Never Ever Die, though it could take an age to kill things. It was a lot of fun. I think that's the main problem; Tanking and Healing, particularly in PUGs, just isn't fun; even as a casual, you're getting barraged by loudmouthed toxic people who expect you to do everything perfectly first time. As someone who has dipped their toe in a few times, only to get burned, what's the incentive to ever try it more, when everyone seems to have this expectation cemented in, and attitude problems to match?
As a resto shaman, while I enjoy healing, I love the utility and DPS I can bring. I'm not running the highest keys, but I'm in the ~10 range at the moment. I certainly can do a flame shock, lava burst here and there, acid rain, and chain lightning when I can afford the cast time. I enjoy that aspect of the game play, but I think it should be a bonus and not purely a requirement to meet DPS checks.
Again if you are not pushing title or bleeding edge 20's right now... your dps doesnt matter. If you are in a ten and its a dps requirement you are all undergeared or have bad rotations.
If I wanted to DPS, I’d play a DPS. If I wanted to tank, I’d play tank. Why’s Healer the only role expected to do more than their role?
Tank is supposed to min max damage too
@@DeuterJog damage also contributes to threat generation though.
Because if they force damage profiles so that you always be healing it becomes too stressful and punishing (and key breaking, as if we don't get blamed enough) and if they don't and don't give us DPS tools then with organized CC its better to chain stops and zerg with 4 dps as there is nothing to heal. Healers DPS because damage profiles design shouldnt aim to be too oppresive and we need something to do in between damage events or just low keys, therefore it becomes expected that you will weave those modalities when applicable.
Worth noting, healer DPS doesn't matter to run 95% of keys (or more, based on rating cutoffs). And it's just a quirky thing highly coordinated groups do. You can forgo dps healing if that's what you want and get the best gear and portals from M+.
Additionally, Tanks and DPS are expected to use their utility including off-healing and dispels so there is that too.
@@iSqueamdamage also directly correlates to health bars. If you help make things dead faster, that is active mitigation
If blizzard didn't want you to deal damage you wouldn't have damage spells in your spell book or talent tree. If they didn't want healers to dps then disc priest wouldn't be in the game. Stop making excuses for being lazy or not wanting to play the game properly.
Take away or greatly reduce self healing for other classes other than healers.
I'm in the bucket that I only like to heal as a healer. That said that doesn't mean we should be healing 100% of the time. I'm an old time healer, started in TBC. I thoroughly enjoyed what being a healer meant in Cata. Mana costs went through the roof, mana management was key. This was the case going forward until sometime post legion.
In my opinion healer should be about keeping party alive and mana management. If you wanna burn mana on DPS go for it.
I agree entirely. If they want to design it where we are forced to expend mana outside those parameters then it should be in buffing and utility. Healing is not an offensive role, it is a maintenance role for the party. I would much rather be providing buffs and removing conditions more actively than needing to provide DPS through actively DPSing. For me personally its a preference to playstyle mechanics. Healing and DPSing are not the same thing. Your forced to swap between unit frame targeting with clicks and mouseovers versus tab or click targeting enemies to target them for spells. Unit frames jump all over. Trying to do that to DPS while also being responsible for making up for other players mistakes as the healer is just simply to much and not enjoyable.
The take of the video is in regards to the highest of keys timed. Its not a reality to what the game actually is. As of right now you can time anything 10 or below fairly easy without have to do a single point of DPS. now if you are trying to be cutting edge and bleeding edge of keys healer dps is now required. Its simple math. more dps mobs die faster you cut the time you time the key.
hey man, you do great talking about healer trends. please keep it up. much better than the usual 'rankings' you do routinely. rankings are boring.
The lack or healers in starting to be worrying now ( i play a healer ) - we need healers be healers not dps with healing spells.
EDIT : Bring back classes that can't play all 3 specs, but just 1
the lack of healer is because they hard nerfed healer damage in dragonflight
@@popopiidzdsq9079 DPS should be DPS healers shoud be healers
@@popopiidzdsq9079 The lack of healers is because DF is worst when it comes to healer gameplay. It's antifun. Healing was all about triage and resource management, not too stressful as well. They f'ed up the numbers and then design suffered in the form of constant oneshots and big downtimes. The solution is not anti oneshot heals and dps options. The solution is fixing the original f up
@@фанатКуплинова-ь1е you do understand that the change to healing that have been made in df where to put more focus on healing insted of dps
@@tokra2222I play healer and it's damn boring to play caster, its good they finally change it
As a long time resto druid main, I am a big fan of kitty-weave spec and I'm glad they're fleshing out that hybrid playstyle and giving healing specs more skill expression. I also think Druid is a rare case because the class is SO hybrid compared to other classes. Even a class with all 3 role specs like Paladin feels more 'locked in' to their spec choices/spells whereas Druid's have always been the 'Swiss army knife' class using spells and talents from multiple spec trees throughout their history; it doesn't feel like that much of a stretch to flesh out the dps hybrid playstyle in Druid whereas it might feel more forced in other healing classes.
That being said, I feel like this will make a negative impact on anyone who likes to 'just heal'. They will likely get flamed by some sweat group for not putting out DPS especially in higher keys. Ironically, giving people more hybrid choices is going to make it so healers are almost forced into those specs because of meta and viability.
Healing is in many ways a “Pass-Fail” role in mythic+. Did the group survive? Then you successfully healed, regardless of what the hps meter shows. DPS offers a more granular metric for performance, and I appreciate that opportunity for skill expression. Finding space is integrate damage while continuing to meet the pass-fail healing check is where the role really shines, I think.
Doing a lot of higher keys myself I have found the best DPS are the ones who use utility and actually has nothing to do with the meters. Obviously in higher end keys they know the rotation and plan there offensive CD's for packs but its the utility that makes them great. A spriest who does 600k overall with zero fears no silence pops VE for nothing and never presses flash heal/fade/shield during big damage intake or the spriest who does 500k but does everything correct?
Disc Priest and Mistweaver monk are my favorite healers. I think a lot of that has to do with the idea that my damage is also healing so I'm not opposed to healers doing damage (really like hitting Rising Sun Kick and seeing a bunch of green numbers). I think there needs to be a paradigm shift in encounter design: the idea has always been that killing things quickly is always more beneficial than tanking or healing them. I'm no game designer, but couldn't there be mechanics that require coordination rather than just pew pew? could there be more sections of dungeons that require healing of NPCs, like the snake dungeon in BFA, or the Spirit of the Kheldorai in the Amirdrassil Fyrakk fight? If tanks are never subbed for DPS, could encounters include more mechanics that prevent the group from progressing without a healer because the absence of the healer (not just big unavoidable damage) will cause a wipe?
tbh I do not feel at all you don't need to heal in m+ with pugs. It actually feels like i have no time to DPS cause their is constant damage going out due dps not using defensives or interruptus going trough. Sure if i play with premade group i have time to DPS, but realistic seen its like you said its just the top 1% and imo blizzard should not focus on them.
That's what he's saying in the vid
Healing is ass atm your only there to cover fuck ups rather than any actual healing. My 2cents.
@@goodnamesweretakenkt indeed.
@@Jisei13 i dont think thats entirely true, bosses still require healing. And it also heavily depends on what team setup you run if you can CC-kick all ads always.
But I guess the main issue is people just either getting one shot or drop to 10 +/- HP. Which doesn't give you a feeling of healing. But Blizzard doesn't seem to understand. Giving healers more dps will not resolve that issue. It just makes healing annoying as you constantly have to innerupt your dmg to top someone that stood into something stupid or gives you just an extra button to press >
I really liked to heal in early shadowlands - I mained healer as a Holy Paladin in Nathria (first time maining a healer), and tried again in Dragonflight and hated it. It felt like all of my spells were a small fraction of the health bar and just felt... bad. I switched to Evoker and it felt great - I could actually heal things. I *love* being in melee as a holy paladin, but I don't want that to mean I'm doing a bunch of tiny heals. I want my 3 holy power Light of Dawns to have more than 1% of a tank's health on the tooltip.
Healers “just healing” is a relic of the past. That only worked when mana mattered because your downtime was for mp5. As soon as they made mana not matter it forever changed healing. There is classic era, sod, and Cata classic if that’s your preferred method. Retail is headed in a very different direction for better or worse.
I think this situation emanate from when the tanks were buffed as hell to be near self sufficient. Now you nearly never heal tanks (who are often in front of you in raw healing ...) creating a gap in what healing you need to do compared to old school healing where you had to babysit the tank. Nowadays tanks do close to double your dps while being semigodlike in term of survavibility, resulting in having to only heal DPS when they make mistakes.
Another negative of the tanks being self-suficient is they pay way less attention to the group.
They may be able to survive a half dungeon pull, but if all the dps dies than its not really a fun experience.
Everyone wants to go fast, but the self-sustaining tanks have made them completely unanswerable to the group.
I would fix this by drastically reducing self-healing and increasing mitigation.
So is expected that the most stressful role has to fill 2 roles. The problem is that some healers were designed to heal through damage and it started with discipline priest. and then Holy paladin had to melee to short healing cds and then monk follow suit. It's very difficult to balance all that, with some healers having to dps to heal and other don't. On top of that, the new philosophy of homogenizing roles so all classes can do everything, there is no longer specialization of classes.
Personally I prefer the healer to be a support role. Healing, managing resources and buffing the party and debuffing the enemies
110%
But when there's nothing to heal do u just stand there afk waiting for people to take damage?
@@Exalez Is very rare when that's the case but of course I think is ok to toss some dots and do some dps when possible but what is not ok, it's the meta where the best healer is the one that does more dps.
Theyll never be able to please everyone but imo that's why you see so many classes/playstyles. Imo they should diversify the playstyles/toolkit of the characters even more so that everyone has something meaningful to do during downtime but it doesnt necessarily default to dps. With class fantasy in mind they could even lean into the alternate specs e.g. give preservation evokers the ability to buff players similar to aug
Feels pretty lackluster to dps as healer when you're doing like a fifth of a dps damage, obviously it is better than not doing it but most healers dps "rotation" isn't very interesting either.
Healers want to let Other people shine! Plz Blizz!!! Let healers only Do Healing and if they have time to not heal, let them help the Dds to do more Dmg. !!!!!!!!!!! For example let the shaman give lightning shild to other players like in WC3! Ore give them spirit weppons that hit faster. Let the healer be healer. ❤❤❤
Man they really destroyed this game. This is what happens when you sell out to corporations
I really enjoy playing healing specs as a hybrid DPS healer. To me that game play feels good.
lol there's no shot. Not doing dps on my healer. If I want to dps i'll go as a dps! 🤣
I dont think if the role is "easy" more people will be attracted to the role, so this is probably not the good way.
Blizz can try to give us, the "dps with extras" experience, and try to make healers easy. But i rly hope one day the healing will be the main job of healers once again.
I believe they are heading in the right direction, but what I would also do to ensure there is no "degenerate" gameplay is reduce or remove most defensive abilities from the dps (to offset this in pvp, honor talents can also be more defensive focused or an aura "buff" that reduces damage done in pvp or whatever.) and reduce their self healing potential. Once that is done they can then reduce damage output of the dungeon mobs and bosses making it less spiky but decently constant (so that a healer is needed to ensure survival). With these changes you would ensure that a healers input is always needed but not too frustrating and stressful while also allowing that in the meantime they can do damage as a true support spec. They would need to make sure that all of the healer specs have a short, sweet and simple yet rewarding dps loop as to reduce the button bloat. I think these changes would make healing less frustrating and stressful while appealing more to the broader audience, which I am sure loves the "support" playstyle. Thanks for another great video!
I think the key thing to consider here is that tanks and healers are being ask to DPS because the DPS role is saturated with average or below average players. The typical wow player wants the least amount of responsibility and the most fun, so they pick DPS. Tank and healing roles require more skill and responsibility so they attract a different kinds of player. Because of that, you can add more complexity to what they do and they will adapt and respond. They enjoy that. Not so for the average DPS. They will switch to the class that is easier and more fun to play, chasing the "flavor of the month." So Blizz builds the dungeons around what the tanks and healers will do, not the dps.
I actually agree with this comment alot! Good comment!
I think the main issue that people had in S2 dungeon DMG profile was it was so bursty. So healers didn't like it because if they didn't get hp bars to max health then people died which felt awful. Then if there wasn't a big burst coming then healers could DPS. I think the way blizzard could fix this issue is less huge burst moments but much more consistent or rot damage throughout dungeons. This allows healers to be constantly healing without the fear of "if my DPS isn't max hp they die in 2 seconds" and for better players that have a higher skill cap they can weave in damage abilities to min max because there isn't that same fear of "if I use a global on DMG then I'll miss the heal to keep my group alive" this gives a lot more agency and flexibility on the individual choices players have on their actions/rotations in a dungeon
Yeah no I really don't want to deal with rot damage maintenance and still be required to weave in damage. DPS get their chill moments in dungeons between pulls they can't deal damage while the group isn't engaged. But as healers we have groups that have no regard for health pools they can end a pack low health and their moving to engage the rest. While we struggle to keep up, plant and top people off before the next pool. Our downtime is the periods between damage. We don't need to be doing something every single second of the instance. No one else is.
@@sonickatyt not every pull has to be rot damage but it is vital to have damage profile variance in dungeons. Unless you are the hyper top players pushing keys you don't HAVE to weave in damage, that it just something optional that rot damage can allow vs the crazy burst meta that existed in S2. When it comes to downtime for healers the type of damage a mob group puts out won't really affect the "down" periods and once a mob group is dead all the roles have their downtime and if the tank chain pulls, each group is still in the action. It's not like when mobs are at 10% health DPS just stop all damage to walk to the next pull, they keep dpsing while moving, healers keep healing while they move. Roles will still have pretty much the same active periods but the change in dungeon damage profile allows healers to actively fulfill and focus on the role fantasy that is a "healer" because they can be constantly healing during a pull instead of healing hyper burst for 2 seconds then just sit there for 5 seconds which results in them having to DPS because there isn't much else to do
Full group support abilities is the solution, not buffing a single player, but buffs fort the whole group. A channeled spell that increases haste while channeling for instance.
I like healer dps. As long as it's equally spread. Shadowlands was unbalanced with R.Sham & Priest doing the best dps. All healers should be able to do comparable dps.
What if they flip the script of a disc/mist style of play so instead of doing damage to heal you have some specs that ramp their dots/damage for the more healing you do rather than the damage you do on something like a disc priest or mist weaver monk kinda a cool idea imo
Just healing is a relic from when Mana was more of a concern and you had to balance mp5 spirit ticks during downtime, nowadays during downtime you should be doing SOMETHING, and personally knowing when you can dps weave especially on resto druid/holy priest is a fun skill to develop
I like to play Disc. Priest or Resto. Shaman when I am bored with my main but healing is too hard this season. I tried a +2 Ruby with my RS and a M0 BH with my DP, both times I failed miserably. Maybe it is because of lack of interrupts but there were a lot of one shot spells. It was so bas that I felt ashamed. I think healer should be a healer. I mean if I want to DPS I can play a DPS spec. I can enjoy doing dps as a side job but it’s becoming a main goal and it shouldn’t be the focus imo.
I don't play healers but I get having fun filling two roles at once. I remember back in MoP, playing a prot paladin and throwing eternal flame on people with low HP when I had extra Holy Power and I knew the next defensive CD wasn't coming up for a minutes. Being one of the top heals in LFR while tanking was fun.
I haven’t played wow in a long time, and brand new to healing. How are you healing your party without left clicking each person to target them before you heal them?
traditionally they are called mouseover macros, but i know blizz recently added in a mouse over option in the menu so making individual macros isnt required. I would recommend looknig into it, it makes healing much easier
I do enjoy doing some form of DPS as a healer. For me it’s really simple, if the PUG group I’m running with is doing good with mechanics then I do damage. If not, I focus on healing. I honestly have never ran into a situation where I was called out for not doing enough damage as a healer. I try to be self critical of my game play to hopefully improve and really don’t worry about the rest. Hopefully I wasn’t to off point with my input. ;)
Id say Shadowlands was when I noticed as a healer that dpsing as one was desired. Paladin with Venythr Priest with Kyrian druid with Night Fae. I think that using the covenant abilities for damage through that expansion really paved the way for healers to optimize down time by dpsing in high key push.
The problem is more in overmind ground then is rly is in current state.
First and most important - current state of healers are Support archetype. So only adding a suport role will fix the problem. Adding a +1slot in group or balancing slot for support class. Plus add a constant mechanic for healers that will not give them time for just spamming dps. For example a little debuff that can be removed only by healer who is attacking the special creature or effect etc. End numbers will not metter - just give them heal something all the time.
Take a 12+ log; if at any point the healer is pressing more 'dps' buttons than 'healing' buttons, I think it is an issue.
because people know where they have to use there kits like def cds or selfhealing?
Switched from tanking to healing in season 4 and having absolute blast on prevoker - healing feels real good this season.
When i left wow during legion, as a healer, most of my bar was healing skills. One or two damage skills that would debuff or power something that was healing.
I enjoy it so far. I just want to play holy paladin, i enjoy having a decent amount of dps to fight mobs when im questing.
How about reverse atonement? A talent where when you heal it does DPS to a nearby enemy? Or maybe I’ve just been playing too much Classic lately.
ive really almost always been a dps and switched to healer at the end of season 2. being able to deal damage as a healer especially inn dungeons is a must. i dont really push really high keys, but only healing in dungeons can be boring. possibly having the healers do more damage I think is a good idea
I heal in raids (heroic clears and mythic prog) and aug in m+ (currently 8-10 keys). I'd love to heal in m+ but whenever I do I hate it. It's too fast paced/unpredictable because a wipe can be as simple as a missed interrupt and when others make mistakes you just wait to see a message in chat blaming you for it. doing damage as a healer feels stressful, I feel like I'm constantly in triage mode. ontop of that I'm expected to handle affixes. when I play aug I get to relax and do a key, maybe I'll drop my blossom next to other people or grab someone from a bad situation but other than that I'm minding my own business and throw a few interrupts. It's night and day. raid healing isn't like this at all.
Fairly new, began last season.
I almost believe augmentation evoker holds the key to making a fun supportive role for me, i came from league of legends often playing support, the support class is usually there to enable the DPS, and enabling can be interpreted as far more than just healing…
This season i’m playing healing as a discipline priest, half of the public groups play well enough i can weave my damage in, the other half requires me to spam heals, so it keeps me on my toes.
I think going forward i enjoy having a mix of buffing and healing allies, so i might just go back to augment evoker later on.
Edit: i think a key word most supports like to bring is ‘utility’. Buffs, auras, steroids, interupts + defensives + kicks, stealth, teleports, cranking your parties utility up to 11. the goal is to enable members of the party to accomplish far more together than they could individually.
I think if HPS/DPS as a n XY graph. Because of gameplay restrictions and GCD count, there is a direct correlation between these two dynamics. HPS through DPS, DISC, MW, have the same restraints, just at a different point on the graph.
Ultimately, as constraints ramp, healers run out of room to press more buttons, so the ones they do press become more exponentially more valuable.
No matter the type of healer, there is *always* a best button to push.
4:44 what addon is allowing some hits to flow down and some hits to flow up like that? i would love that to make crits more noticeable
Just started healing today actually, was sick of the long ques. I’m absolutely loving it, especially playing with a coordinated group where I’m not responsible for all 314 aspects of a dungeon
I think what healer needs, and to find it attractive it needs a new ui system.
I like the idea of picking a class and having various styles of healing through damage like a disc priest, or a pure healer or a support to offer buffs while healing.
But say for example, it’s satisfying as a warrior to see the enemy go 20% and execute flash up.
If as a healer for example you had a clearer warning or indication big damage was coming to the tank, or a different panel showing the party members with linked in abilities something like a dps has dropped to 20% you can have a big heal button, or can apply a shield to party. More impactful abilities also.
But also need to move away from putting a lot on healers such as CC, mandatory damage etc until higher level content and skill level rather than to be expected.
I really like to DPS as a healer. It might be because I am a DPS gone healer, but doing as much damage as possible keeps me engaged. Usually when at farm I very quickly stop playing my healer.
If not challenged it is just very dull to heal. On the other hand, S1 and S2 in DF made healing to stressful because the pressure was constant.
In a perfect world i would like to be provided with an enganging damage rotations that ties in healing.
Like Crusader Strike/Smite increase damage or healing of you next "Heal/Dmg ability with a CD".
That way you can optimise with damage spells to complete the loop, or use only healing spells.
While only healing spells provide more HPS, keeping everyone alive is what matters and you get encouraged to weave in damage spells.
On the other hand, healing big damage events could provide you with meaningful damage moments afterwards.
Like getting rapsody stacks on priests for every xy amount healed. So you can build 400 stacks and spend them in aoe in 50 stacks per cast for 8 really powerful aoe globals on a healer (but only after having healed a lot), or spent it on PW:R 200 stacks or something for big bursts of healing that feed into themselves if you need extended healing.
I think thats something I would love to see. Because it would put healing front and center with opt in for converting it to damage or more healing for extended damage events.
Anyway i am the guy who heals with 2 DPS trinkets if I can get away with it.
Things could go back to the way it used to be and make dps restrain their damage to avoid pulling threat again. I always thought that was better then this easy mode for dps. Make healers focus the tanks again.
I think only healing is not possible to balance. But there should always be two options for healers to distribute their talents. Either do damage yourself in addition to healing or strengthen the group with buffs/debuff enemies.
For example, druids could distribute buffs that scale with the number of ticking hots, shamis could provide cooldown-based buff totems, etc.
I don't dislike healer as a support role - doing dps, affixes, and cc is all pretty fun for me. But it does result in a lot of binds, macros, targeting, and new skills for a lot of players. Especially with the new talents giving you so many options, I'd like to see them simplify their kits a bit like they did with Disc (and personally that also means PvP talents!). This expac we needed binds for bash and typhoon and maim and savage roar at the same time, even if you don't always play them all. I even played mending on my disc in pvp cus it had some advantages. I know these are my choises but feeling like it is acessible to do dps and cc is important. Evoker is the sweet spot for me but now they're even getting a new ability that can be used both of enemies and allies with hero talents.
We could also include mana management as a more active component such that healers don't alternate between DPSing and healing but rather healing and.Mana management such that healing doesn't become overly tedious but also doesn't allow for DPS
I mainly tank, but I usually play a heal-alt. As a healer, i've personally had the most fun when I had damage impact similar to tanks. Right now in Dragonflight, i've not played healer as much, because the impact i have doesn't feel great. you're only really required for a few certain pulls in a dungeon, the rest of the dungeon you might as well play DPS. and you would if you could, if spec-swapping inside of M+ was possible.
the most fun i've had as a healer is when i played Ele Shaman in SL S2. yes, Elemental Shaman. as a healer. In Shadowlands with the legendary "Chains of Devastation", which made Chain Heal mana-free for Ele shamans. and they had a surprising amount of heal support in talents, conduits, etc. i've played my Ele-shaman-healer in keys up to +23/+24, which was really quite good at the time, as i made title on my bear tank with +26/+27s. that was about the limit though as after those key levels i just lacked HPS (and a magic dispel) to be able to heal higher keys.
but damn were those keys fun. they felt extremely fast because i was doing 80-90% of a DPS. my ST dmg wasnt great, but damn did i speed up all of the AoE pulls ;D best feeling was always when we were only 4 friends and invited a pug, and in the middle of the key they asked "we don't have a healer lol?", but not because we wiped or anything, but because it just felt fishy to them how quick stuff was dying and then they looked at their details window. :D
losing the Chains of Devastation legendary has definitely been my greatest personal loss going from SL into DF. :P
(if you dont believe me, check out raider dot io /characters/eu/blackmoore/Kalria?season=season-sl-2)
so anyways, point being i think they absolutely need to increase healer impact outside of healing. imo the best idea would be to have aug-style buffs for healers to augment their group instead of them having to deal damage themselves. but it's not going to happen. so the most realistic choice we have is to up the damage levels of healers to be similar to tanks again, so we can feel impactful again even in pulls where no healing is required.
I miss harder healing days. I push my heals for top of charts, but now I kinda stand there not doing anything, until I remember to do some dps. bring back healer healing.
I always wanted healers to have more support options when healing wasn't required giving buffs and ect. That was before Aug Evokers came out.
I main a preservation evoker & I like being able to dps in between heals. I have the tome trinket & it's really nice when it procs. I like the mix of being able to heal & dps. If World of Warcraft changed it to only healing, I would be very sad, to be honest.
I've tried being the only one alive, having to dps the boss to try finish the dungeon. If I haven't had those dps abilities, the mythic + dungeon wouldn't have been finished in time. In a perfect scenario, this wouldn't have been necessary, but sometimes everything just doesn't go as planned.
Either up damage as u said or implement more hybrid choices in specs
My first 60 ever was a resto Night elf Druid. And I mained healing for quite a while in wow... i remember how in combat you really had to worry about going OOM.... like that was the issue as a healer. And so you got better gear and then your mana could last those epic fights. It was a battle of stamina. Nowadays its a battle of split second reactions or idk i dont heal anymore....
What I'd like to see tried is the possibility of some talents/abilities that convert healing or overhealing into damage. Maybe something like 60% of your overhealing done to a target pulses for damage split between the mobs around it. Obviously the numbers would need to be balanced but it's something that might allow 'pure' healers to feel like they're contributing to their groups success during periods of low damage. We already have some abilities that do dmg and healing and these often feel good to push but they tend to be tuned pretty low. What would be awesome is being able to press something like Divine Hymn and if the party is full health have it become a massive dps burst.
This might also resolve an issue where, when climbing keys as a pug healer, progression feels a bit odd. Currently there's a weird low spot between like +6 to +9 (it changes over the season) where most players know mechanics but heal and dps checks are not super stressful yet and as a healer you just feel pretty low impact. You're not saving newbies from mistakes in lower keys or meeting the actual scary heal checks in higher keys. If you could just do a ton of overhealing (and therefore dmg) in these farm keys it would feel more like being a good healer in those contexts is contributing towards the group's success (and letting you farm them more efficiently).
I do enjoydpsing as a healer. Just hope they keep it simple. 3-4 buttons max and no crazy dot rotation plus a window of huge pumping we have to meet. Keep our numbers around tanks dps level.
In Final Fantasy XIV you aren't really so much a "hybrid" spec. You have a simple DPS rotation, usually consisting of an instant DoT and a spammable spell with a cast time which is shorter than your GCD. You then have many different healing spells which are off GCD (oGCD) that you can weave in that empty zone between the cast finishing and the GCD being over. You also have some healing abilities that use the GCD. The goal for healers is to use every GCD you can for damage and only heal via oGCDs. There are some, long cooldown abilities that do both damage and healing and one case where a healing ability has a damage benefit. But there isn't the hybrid style in WoW where your damage and healing are connected as your main way of healing (Disc/Fistweaving). You just kind of manage two rotations simultaneously.
As for myself, I like to do DPS as a healer, as long as one of the following criteria are met:
That DPS feeds into my healing by healing directly (Disc/Fistweaver style)
Does a considerable amount of damage
Generates resources or buffs for my other healing, or have some other fun interaction with my kit. Like as Holy Priest Smite, Holy Fire and Chastise aren't so fun to press, the latter does spawn a snowflake that buffs your next casts but, so almost gets a pass. But if Smite added a second to every HoT I have active, Holy Fire caused every PoM to trigger and jump without consuming a charge and Chastise caused healing eruptions on all targets with HoTs or PoM on them, that'd be a lot more fun. In the case of Holy Priest, I don't necessarily think those buttons should be a healing benefit over casting a healing spell, but as a way to relcaim some of the time spent DPSing as healing throughput. (Plus it'd be great to have a way to move PoMs off people who they might expire on)
I enjoy doing some damage as a healer. Dealing damage, however, should be a smaller fraction of the dungeon/raid. They need more consistent damage but nothing crazy. My main grievance is how much healing is now predictive instead of proactive and reactive.
Personally, I have been healing since Cata and started doing damage as a healer in the same expansion, encouraged by the Amani bear timed run and carrying dps who lacked damage in the 'Hour of Twilight'(?) dungeons.
I strongly believe the first step in making healers feel like their healing is meaningful and give the role of healer agency over the healing of a group (which it does not feel like they do most of the time in dungeons) is to take away at least half the defensives from all classes including off-healing of off-healing specs (which also would help with the reduction of button bloat for many classes), increase hp of everyone by 30% or more and increase the amount of smaller damaging abilities throughout instanced content that includes the healer role in. This does a few things: healers will feel their healing is more meaningful because they feel like they are keeping the group alive not the rest of the group using defensives/off-healing to avoid damage or selfheal/offheal, more healing will be required due to higher health pools and increased amount of smaller damage abilities, reduces the yoyo'ing of health pools which is exctremely offputting and annoying to new healers and even old healers, dps will not be a huge requirement since there will be more healing uptime required, and Blizzard will not need to make nearly as many hard hitting abilities as there is now because of the reduction of defensives which in turn also increases healer engagement and role satisfaction for them. I also think using grievious is a bad example as I don't think it was balanced correctly. It hit way too hard on higher stacks and the 90% health requirement felt bad to heal.
As to healer DPS...pandora's box was opened long ago and don't think it would be good to take that away now. I do not want to dps as a healer personally and would prefer it be gone but it's wrong to take it away now because of all the healers that do enjoy that playstyle. One idea I had for helping with this dilemma would be to somehow make it a choice whether to actively dps as a healer or give all heals passive damaging effects (like if i heal someone it takes x% of that healing and applies damage to the closest (or all?) non-cc target(s) in combat with you. This would could be a talent like "Reduce all active damage abilities by 99% and x% of all healing done will replicate as damage to all nearby enemies in combat". Obviously this would require alot of playtesting and balancing but I can't think of another way that would balance dps'ing healers and nondps'ing healers because... why would a group want a non dps healer if they can get the same healing from someone who also does dps, but that is not fair to all the healers that do not enjoy that playstyle as imho it is a "Healer" role not a "Healer/Damage" role. I do think though that both playstyles should be accepted as gold standards but is very difficult to do so as healers are now.
For the should healers change specs during a run they could just not allow you to enter again after leaving the dungeon...if they really didn't want these playstyles to be a thing it's fairly simple and doesn't have to conflict with any other changes. I think if healing agency and required heal throughput is overall increased though, I don't think 4 dps 1 tank playstyle will work well though so this "issue" would be a nonissue (either not able to be done that way or very very rare to be able to be effective)