Spin Prevent and Beggs-Mueller Spin Recovery- Eagle Academics
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2024
- FlyWire looks at the Spin Prevent and the Beggs-Mueller Spin Recovery procedures. This is part of the Eagle Academics for the Upset Prevention Recovery Training program. This is really good stuff to know!
FlyWire is about exploring flight and the freedom this incredible experience brings us on a personal level. Flying has always captured the imagination and excitement of living life to its fullest. Hi, I'm Scott Perdue. In a former life I flew the F-4 and F-15E, more recently I retired from a major airline. I've written for several aviation magazines over the years, was a consultant for RAND, the USAF, Navy, NASA as well as few others, wrote a military thriller- 'Pale Moon Rising' (still on Kindle). But mostly I like flying, or teaching flying. Some of the most fun I had was with Tom Gresham on a TV show called 'Wings to Adventure". We flew lots of different airplanes all over the country. Now with FlyWire I want to showcase the fun in flying, share the joy and freedom of flight and explore the world with you. Make sure you subscribe if you want to go along for the ride!
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Great instructional video, Scott! Thank you for getting out, and showing "real world" how it works! Appreciate all you do to promote aviation safety, and all you did in defense of the country in your Air Force career!
Thank you Scott! Love your videos.
Great video! Thanks for showing an instrument view. It added an entire new prospective on altitude loss.
Things my flight instructor never taught me back in the day. Excellent work Scott!!!!
Mild Maneuvering Maggots make you a Maggot too.
Thanks for these demonstrations. The one thing an instructor said about the Bonanza was it likes coordinated flight and don't let the speed build too much in a decent. There is comfort and confidence in knowing this airplane want's to return to trimmed attitude naturally or as designed I reckon. The Bonanza has the best control harmony of any plane I've flown.
Ed, I agree... one reason I like them so much!
Nice demonstration, and some excitment for the day.
Excellent demos! As a new Bonanza A36 driver, I have really enjoyed your videos! Great information. Thank you and keep em coming!
Great video and demo. It is indeed scary for pilots like me without a upset recovery training
I’m here after searching for Beggs Meuller - because Scott mentioned this in his basic spin video
Thank You Scott !......"over the top..not as exciting"...WOW
Always amazingly good
Fascinating, a bit scary when she went inverted but great to see how you recover each time.
Thanks Scott!
Wow, what great information. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience.
Another great video, its a must watch multiple times!
Thanks, Jack!
Great video!
Love these videos, they teach me so much about what to expect in these types of situations. As a new pilot in training, I have a little bit of a problem following some of your terminology of flight characteristics, but if i go back over it, I'll almost always get it. If not, that's what my instructor is for, right? Thanks again for your efforts and teachings!
Stephan, thanks for watching and I'm glad this stuff helps you! Feel free to ask questions anytime, from me, your instructor, or others in the pilot community. Broaden your horizon and experience base... and have fun!
This stuff is so awesome. I never knew there was a model of Bonanza that is aerobatic. It's kinda like if I saw a Buick Roadmaster at Talledega. Blows my mind to see you throwing that thing around.
Geez. I gotta get back into the air. I love airwork and spins/unusual attitude recovery are my favorites. A 172 hates to spin especially with a couple of people in the front. A guy really has to drag it kicking and screaming. Power off, keep pulling back and just before the stall, pull back, hard left rudder and give it a shot of gas. The thing will flip on its back. It's the only thing close to upside down I've done.
I gotta get down to Texas when they get tired of this covid thing and open up the border.
The Aerobatic Bo is a really fun machine! I love it!
Where did the expression "spin PRE-VENT come from"? Is it from the U.S. military? I've only heard this exercise referred to as "incipient spin training." For our private certificates we were taught to "Pick up the wing with the opposite rudder and to not use ailerons." We demonstrate this to the examiner during the flight test. This is a worthwhile video series to watch. The "divergent spiral" exercise was most interesting to me. The spiral tightens so quickly. Not like your typical Cessna.
Thanks for watching. 'Spin Prevent' was the term used by the USAF when I went through UPT.
Cool!!!!!
You sure eat up altitude a bit quicker than the J3 I learned to fly in!
Good morning CPT. Perdue, Here it is 5:30 a.m. and starting my day with a cup of coffee and your excellent spin videos. There really is a great need for more spin awareness and knowledge of the aerodynamics involved. You seem to have the best of both worlds in that you have a beautiful aero community to hanger in. It sure beats driving to the airport. Thanks again for some great video and I hope that you and your family had a wonderful Thanksgiving! 🦃🦃 Cordially, Chuck✈️📖
Good morning! And I totally agree, it is great not to have to drive to the airport... just walk out into the hangar and you're at work! Thanks for watching, more spin stuff coming up in the future.
Great vid, I would love to see how you clean your spark plugs Scott’s way on your A36!🙏🏻
I'll try to add that to a future video. Thanks for the suggestion and watching!
Scott I noticed about the 10:03 mark during the Beggs-Mueller recovery, that the VSI pegged and on the recovery it stayed pegged for a couple of seconds after the altimeter had reversed and the nose was approaching somewhat level . This due to not being an IVSI or something else I am missing? Not used to being in those attitudes so I am somewhat clueless. Great video.
Dan- That's one reason why I wanted to film the instruments during the maneuver, curiosity. From the dark recesses of some fold in my brian I recall that the altimeter is actually more sensitive than the VSI (the VSI lags the Altimeter). Lots of interesting stuff happening. Thanks for watching!
@@FlyWirescottperdue Thanks Scott. Seems I remember that from long ago also. Too many years of flying behind an IVSI.
Would this work in a Boeing 747 I wonder,,,,probably so ?
Your videos are spectacular. Do you have a video on all the jargon you use? : "depart the airplane", "boundary layer", "load", "unload", "roll under", "roll over". You use words like an aerospace engineer. What is your background? Also, the Top Gun video at the beginning. Is that just an alterego thing or were you a military pilot (which would explain your elevated and technical vocabulary) or better yet a military flight instructor??. I am impressed sir. Please do a video on YOU or at least direct me to your aviation CV. I would love to have you for my CFI.
Allan- thanks for watching and commenting! I guess I do use a lot of jargon.... maybe I’ve been doing this too long. I don’t even realize it now. Hopefully, you can figure out what I’m saying from the video... if not ask the question and I’ll answer it. The videos aren’t really about me, as much as they are about the message. That’s why I don’t really talk about myself. I outline my background in the ‘About’ section of the channel. I flew F-4’s and F-15E’s in the USAF and enjoyed teaching new guys in the F-15E. I do teach in the F33C...aerobatics and Upset Prevention and Recovery Training. Come fly with me!
@@FlyWirescottperdue Thanks Scott. Maybe I will ! Keep up the good work!! I look forward to all of your content. I am a 27 year rusty pilot now trying to get back into it. The F33 is my dream plane.
Just to check. (1) unload, (2) Rudder...but once (1) is done can also used (3) Rudder and Ailerons. Key is the UNLOAD....no unload...don't mouse with ailerons. I got that right...Thx
Pretty close! Rudder opposite spin, unload, recover from the dive. Ailerons are pro-spin.
That's why I still keep a steam guage turn coordinator...that Mad Check in the back seat of that glider yelling step on the ball is always there...saved my bacon.
Question
When one gets their IFR certificate do they ever learn to recover from a spin with just the attitude gauge?
Either in Sim or with foggiest on?
Trying to recover from a Spin in hard IMC using only your attitude Guage takes a lot of practice I would suppose.
Or only using G1000 glass panels to recover from.
That would make a great youtube video for sure.
No, there is no requirement to recover from a spin on the gages. In several of my spin videos I show the G3X check it out.
6:50 hey Scott. FYI your left elevator was shaking pretty heard. Just saying
Thanks
Guys just driving to church in the plane as he tells us about spin stuff 😅
The spin demo where you allowed it to turn 1.5 turns looks more like a spiral dive than a spin. The speed is clearly increasing at a high rate which would not happen in a fully developed spin.
Julian- I think you missed the point of the video and that segment.
"Another fine mess you've gotten us into Stanley."
HaHa, I hope you enjoy the ride!
@@FlyWirescottperdue Thanks Scott for showing the low end envelope and it's recovery techniques. You have reached more Bone pilots than any 5000 instructors can. My greatest fear was the "I never stall my Bonanza!" Well then, I'll fix that. Or, "my Bonanza always breaks to the left." I fixed that too. One pilot at a time...
@@dickjohnson4268 Dick- Thanks a bunch! I really appreciate it. One Pilot at a Time... indeed! Enjoy flying for as long as you can!!
I think that it is NOT OK to use ailerons during recovery. In fact, it is very counterintuitive, but you should leave the ailerons NEUTRAL or even TOWARDS THE WING THAT DROPS, so you apply counter rudder and unload the wings with elevator down, but you keep ailerons neutral or slightly towards the wing for at least 1-2 seconds. This is especially true for shallow turns. In a tight turn, the elevator will have a much greater and faster effect on wing unloading, but in shallow turn, much less so. The video shows correctly that there was a delay between ELEVATOR input and ROLL input, but the text on screen is not correct!!!!
The unload always precedes leveling the wings. Once the wing is unloaded it IS OK to use coordinated aileron and rudder to level the wings. I think you are getting the cart before the horse.
Well, the text on the screen could be taken as misleading ("It is OK to use ailerons in coordination with Rudder"). Natural instinct of most beginners would be to use ailerons immediately to "catch" the drop, but this will aggravate the things. So yeah, maybe I was too picky, but this sequence UNLOAD and RUDDER, then ROLL, not ROLL and UNLOAD should be emphasized. First, you push rudder pedals and elevator, and only later you roll, but not in coordination!
You wearing a parachute?
Most of the time when I do aerobatics I wear a parachute. If you are solo you don't have to wear one though.
@@FlyWirescottperdue Google “ZS-CVA 6 April” for ASN report. This is what happened to my Cessna 206.
@@FlyWirescottperdue Google “ZS-CVA 6 April” for ASN report. This is what happened to my Cessna 206.
5:24 I have always wondered what the advantage is to a gimble design like this as opposed to what you would see in a Cesna.
Using both hands as you are now, is this the reason why the gimble is designed like this? Or are you just getting leverage because you're in a spin situation? Silly question, but I'm curious
Rodney, I'm really not sure what you are asking. The AI is a Mid-Continent electric AI. It is not an aerobatic AI and one exactly like it was in my Cessna Skywagon.
@@FlyWirescottperdue at the time stamp, I'm not sure what I'm asking, I see you're operating the elevator with your right hand, left hand on the yoke operating the ailerons I just wondered if the different design ( than what I'm used to seeing as a non pilot ) is made to be used with two hands?
I've never seen one like this, I'm used to what you would see in a Cesna. Just a steel rod going into the instrument panel/firewall as opposed to what you have hear.. a T shaped gimble ( I hope I'm using the word gimble correctly )
Rodney- I'm not sure what you mean by your question. The AI in the panel is an electric Mid-Continent and is the same exact unit that was in my Skywagon.
@@FlyWirescottperdue It's Ok, It's a non pilot question that is really only me being curious. With the limits of text, I just can't explain what I meant, it's cool...
You've got an awesome channel. I get a lot out of your videos.
That wasn’t really a spin I think. Possibly not full pro spin controls held until recovery?
What was it?
I learned on glider from a Mad Chech who walked across the frontier in 68, was a Chem Professor at Purdue in late 70's. You couldn't actually spin those trainer gliders so he did the set up..saved my bacon when this idiot thought in check ride prep for private pilot that some village idiot would actually want you to demonstrate a full power stall at full flaps....When the day came, The head of NH's aviation said to me.... here is how we are going to do stalls....if you so much as smell a stall...call it...I don't want to even hear the stall horn... Evan that he had a cow about my soft feel method... put it down power up an down the runway lifting the flaps and all depart...test to me was to never let the nosewheel touch the pavement.
Hands-off "Spin" looked more like a spiral dive, it was not a real spin! Rotation was too slow, the indicated speed increased quickly!
I suggest you watch my videos on the Wedge. It might just increase your understanding of the aerodynamics of the F33C a little. Oh, and may a few more of my videos on spins... airspeed is no longer an indicator of what is going on with an auto-rotation.
I agree that in a spin, when the indicated speed is low, it does not necessarily mean that true speed is low (you are side slipping and the pitot gets airflow from a side, which may reduce the indicated speed in some planes/gliders to close to 0), but not vice versa, i.e. true airspeed would never be lower than the indicated speed. But I do not have a clue about F33C, and how it behaves, I am a glider pilot....@@FlyWirescottperdue
@@michailbelov6703 No, the answer is in a spin the indicated speed is not low, especially if the outside wing is the one with the pitot tube. Watch my tufted spin video.
Also if you watch the Just let go spin video as well as the ones on the Wedge you will learn something about F33C aerodynamics. Go for knowledge..
Sorry, you are right pitot on the wing! I was thinking about gliders which have the pitot usually on tailfin, and in that case you do get very low indicated speeds (due both to side airflow and turbulance/shadowing from the main wing when in stall@@FlyWirescottperdue
Just curious but in your first example, it looked like you were still cordinated. At least, that is the reading I got from the inclonometer. Now, if your cordinated, no spin....right? So....what was the reason for that 1st maneuver again? I could clearly see that you were in a slip in the second. Maybe you can try the 1st one again and be in an actual skid this time
You and I both know, had you been uncordinated ( in a skid) you'd been upside down before you had the chance to employ recovery. This is why there is NO recovery from a base to final uncordinated stall. For all those who think i'm just being a jerk, please watch his instruments.
This is the kind of video that gets people in trouble. Not because of what your teaching, but because you infer certain expectations and then omit critical information that changes everything. The technique is valid, and looks easy. Now some ingnorant person is more likely to push that edge on base to final, thinking they have a quick recovery. But, because they failed to understand that you were not in a skid and therefore uncordinated, they will be caught off guard by the speed of that wing drop and killed. It is not an accurate set up sir and you should fix it or call attention to it.
Christopher- Thanks for watching and your comments. I know of no 'inclonometer' in an airplane. I suppose you are referring to the Slip/Skid ball. For your information the slip/skid ball is unreliable in a spin/departure. Obviously, you are unfamiliar with this environment. So, if you are looking at the slip/skid ball your observation, and your conclusion, is fatally flawed. The video from out the window was shot at the same time as the video of the instruments. I just cannot show both of them at the same time.
In point of fact I do show departures from a turn in both a slip and a skid.... Under the bottom, or over the top. And if you gathered that I was advocating a pilot could go out there and do this by himself, or push the edge of the envelope... you are SORELY mistaken. I advocate training in these maneuvers, in an aerobatic airplane. It is, and will remain, my opinion, that training like this will help pilots AVOID these situations, but have the tools for a fighting chance if they encounter them. Final turn accidents happen all too frequently with tragic results. I am trying to do something to fix that.
Perhaps you should come and do the UPRT course to see first hand for yourself. I hope this reply serves to elucidate the situation for you.
Well he’s not incorrect, if the turn is being accomplished coordinated the aircraft when stalled will break straight ahead and not spin.
@@McBoeingDrVr That is my whole point sir. He was cordinated in the 1st example but he made it sound like he was doing skid/stall recovery. in the 2nd example he is clearly in a slip, stalls it, wing over, recovery, no problem. It is the 1st example i take issue with because he does not hold the skid until stall ( though he infers he is) and when you glance at the instruments, he is clearly cordinated.
And Mohave I meant to say that you’re the correct one. Sorry my apologies if it didn’t come across as that way. Something must be missing from the video or explanation not correct. In the first spin the only way it’ll spin like that in a turn and just mush over is when bottom rudder is applied in the direction of the turn. So my guess is the video isn’t aligning at the same time with the instruments and real time outside view.
I also don’t like that he mentions it’s ok to use ailerons in the recovery, in a developed spin trying to add aileron in the opposite direction of the spin will only serve to tighten/speed up the spin more. I guess some argument could be made that at the absolute beginning of the break to spin adding some aileron in could possibly help aid in recovery time when included with opposite rudder but I’d have to go fly that maneuver a bunch of times.
🤮😄
Scott, great video! Just a question, I thought that if you don’t cage the attitude indicator when you spin or roll that it can damage it. Is that so?
Not ones designed for aerobatics. I've got all glass in the cockpit now and they are great!