An overlooked detail on war wagons is that their unit height allows them to shoot over infantry lines. Doesn't necessarily justify their price compared to handgunners, but they can do a reasonable job of sniping a high value unit from behind your own line
Really wish they could just become fortifications. They're not big enough to break the game. And they could just give them upped health so they can be broken through.
@@AliothAncalagon I guess that's a solution if you have the allegiance points for it. You'd be underperforming if you run a heavy red skills Empire lord (I never do though, red skills makes everything OP). WW might fall short, but don't forget the initial kiting can vastly extend their range, mobility gives better flanking shots and they're really good at drawing AI units in the open for your other shooting or cav to wreck them.
Unironically dont think Giants are the WoC worst unit, they have so many ways of buffing their missile resist that they actually become good units. the worst one here is once again the feral manticore or warhound because you have simular chance to get warhounds with poison which are the same but better.
Pastures huff feral manticores and chaos warhounds by 5% per building making feral manticores viable doom stacks late game. I disagree with them being the worst units but it is fair to take into account that it will take a few turns before you get enough pastures to make them usable
Yep. Can have 55+% missile resist on a group of giants. Can be pretty hard to recruit early unless you take the dwarf mountains early. Meanwhile kind of hard to gather enough pastures to make war hounds ever as good as the common marauder
For Cathay I would pick the Sky Lantern. Not the Sky Junk, as those are actually useful, but the regular Sky Lanterns are trash. They are slow, do meh damage and get taken down by pretty much anything that can reach it or hit it Vampire Coast, man the Depth Guard received a nice buff and are REALLY good. I get the whole playstyle with "Why not get zombies?" because the Depth guard look fucking cool and beat the shit out of many other infantry that want to touch my apples
@@iniudan ranged units couldnt be more generic and every ranged unit can blow the lantern out of the sky in the blink of an eye. Joining melee units is hard when you cant get anywhere close to an enemy ranged unit. Sky Junks are unique because they are flying siege pieces. They have a unique angle of fire. Being able to fire down directly into enemy units makes a good difference. They also can move much more freely and assume new effective firing positions like other artillery pieces cant. Even after the melee lines have connected they can (depending on the matchup) get into flanking positions to effectively fire into enemy formations that are currently in melee for example. In my personal experience they often racked up more kills than the normal rocket battery despite having only a third of the firepower on paper.
Agreed, honestly one celestial comet from a compass will do more damage than a sky lantern would in 3 battles. They also have some benefit keeping harmony up for those longer range units like crane gunners and artillery which actually gain substantial dps gains with fire rate.
Giants actually arent bad at all ive had them get on average 200 to 300 kills a battle against High elves, you just need to ensure the ai fires at something else before you send them in, they can also be devastating in sieges
yup. in campaign giants are great, because you can outfox the AI and disable their missile units before sending the giant in. I think multiplayer is where giants are the real pincushions - but even so, not the worst unit
I like the war wagons, the shooters don't die until the entity itself dies, they can't be interrupted when shooting, having height you can shoot more easily, there are better options in everything, but I wouldn't say they are the worst unit imperial. The deep guard is funny because it's, well, it's a guard for ranged units, but you can make a whole army of them against counts and Slaanesh since they don't have ranged weapons and vampirates are masters at it, apart to have monsters. The opponent will do his best to counter the rifles, mortars and giant crabs, mainly dealing damage against large and fast but soft units that can dispatch marksmen, to collide with halberds and armored meat grinders.
Some genuinely befuddling choices on here: Giants for Beastmen are fine, because they have unit caps and a Giant is going to be a lot better than an Ungor Raider or Spearmen Unit. Mounted Yeomen Archers are not the worst unit on the Bretonnian roster, both the regular mounted yeomen and especially the Grail Reliquae are so much worse. Having fast skirmish cav has its uses, giving immune to psych in a tiny area to units with terrible leadership does not. Dark Elves and Dwarfs I agree with your choices, Daemons don't really count. Empire I'd probably say the Luminark is worse than the War Wagon, the War Wagon has its uses against some races that could easily shut down your handgunners, like Vampire Counts. Cathay has an argument for the Skylantern being worse because it'll just not do anything, at least the War Compass will get decent kills even if the Astromancer mount is objectively better. Greenskins I'd probably argue the Wolf Chariot and Boar Chariots are pretty much entirely useless and arguably worse than the Giant. High Elves you're probably right, I never recruit that chariot, though I'll mention the Eagle being pretty crap too. The Khorne Argument I don't really understand, almost every unit works like this, I don't see why Warhounds get singled out for being bad because of this. Frankly I'd argue there's way more of a case for calling the Blood Throne bad as you can get it as a mount for a Bloodreaper instead or indeed the same argument for the Warshrine with the Cultist. Kislev you are probably right though I'd just include every single unit that is in that cavalry building chain, you really just never build that. Yeah Feral Cold Ones suck, bang on. The argument for the Plague Drones again doesn't really hold up since Nurgle has recruitment pools, so if you have Rot Flies you might as well take them, you can't always recruit Plague Drones instead. I'd argue the worst unit for Nurgle are the Nurgle Chariots which I'd never recruit or again the Warshrine since it's a mount for the Cultist. Skaven you are probably right, Clanrats without shield are not great and slaves are more efficient, standard Slaanesh Marauders are likewise quite bad, you'd wanna use the spears 99% of the time unless you're fighting like Dwarfs. Tomb Kings likewise correct, Carrion are awful and them having their own building chain is stupid. Basic Tzeentch Marauders have the upside of being cheap, but you could just get the spear ones instead like with the slaanesh marauders. Depth Guard are not the worst unit on the Coast Roster, like even if their playstyle doesn't lean into melee, at least Depth Guard do something. Unlike Deck Droppers with Pistols which do no damage and die in a stiff breeze. Vampire Counts yeah not much of a point to the basic corpse cart, it's neat as like a slot filler from your raise dead pool but not going to do much. Warriors of Chaos I'd say the Feral Manticore is worse than the Giant, but they're both pretty bad. Again though with how Warriors of Chaos work, a Giant is going to do a hell of a lot more work than a single Marauder unit, so I'd still use them. Wood Elves it's definitely not the Dryad, it's either the Hawk Riders or the Eagle, Dryads have their uses and those 2 units do nothing and are in their own building chain which doesn't get a good unit until t5 with the Forest Dragon.
Plague drones are a waste of space in the army. Their stats look ok but they have terrible animations and never pay for themselves. For Greenskins, i would say Goblin wolf raiders. They just don't do anything. Even Wolf Chariots at least have weak us shooting and can do some morale damage when they roll through. Goblin Wolf Raiders lose to most ranged units in melee.
Hot take: I actually like Feral Manticores in the early game. Not too expensive and can split armies pretty well after killing units of archers or arty pretty well, making the enemy formation completely open to frontal attacks. I usually use 1 of them alongside 1 unit of harpies and together they seem to work better than 2 harpie groups.
If you have a way to heal the giant they also good at making the enemy waste resource, as giant might be easy to shoot, they they still take lot of shot to take down, as they have ridiculously high health for a T3 single entity unit. The problem is that most faction with giant also tend to be the faction without healing. Only Ogre and Nurgle warrior (Undivided also through that, but that the time you unlock Nurgle wizard lord why are you still be using giant as anything but a melee siege engine?) have both giant and healing.
I am french and there is nothing I hate more than Bretonnian voices. It is so exaggerated that I cannot even understand half of their dialogues the first time I hear it. So everything you said about them is accepted.
The feral manticore is pretty good in early game in my opinion. If you play Vilitch and have to deal with a lot of ranged units - before you get your unique item and like 7 Tzeentchian Sorcerers and end up being immortal due to your high winds reserve and insane regeneration, the feral manticores are fantastic to distract the archers! Just pretending to attack them but actually just dodging their arrows is often enough to let your troops come in and then let it rip through the archers. Yes, it's not the greatest, but I'll take it over regular hounds any time!
I find a unit or 2 of reserve Depth Guard is very helpful, especially the halberd versions. They can quickly fill a gap in your lines or deal with flankers very well.
Devoted Marauders? Hard disagree. They have a +7 bonus vs infantry which is pretty much unrivaled for a tier 0 unit. They trade up against nearly all infantry you fight early game, stick in fights with the help of ItP, and can be buffed through early techs that give them Musk (an effective +5 to MD and MA) and additional physical resist. They’re a chaff-priced unit that kills like good mid tier infantry. Spears and Hellscourges, even with those same buffs, do FAR less damage to infantry, while costing more. Spears at least have the anti large niche (though hellstriders are great and you should use both variants), but Scourges are terrible. You pay more to lose the bonus vs infantry and absolutely all AP damage, just to get some extra MD and charge defense for a faction that has no way to fight other than being on the offensive. It’s a toss up between them and the normal Daemonettes for worst Slaanesh unit, imo. By the time in campaign where you are facing mostly high armor enemy armies, you should be able to afford Warrior/Chosen of Slaanesh, which hold far better than Hellscourges while doing, again, much more damage because they actually get to have AP.
Personally I think giants are currently worse simply because every faction with access to them has something you'll want more. Ghorgons shred through their opponents, Idols are literally giant stone walls, and stonehorns are living battering rams. The giants are redundant. They need some ability to give them extra spice, like a falling down animation.
Agreed! This argument ACTUALLY makes sense to why Giants are obsolete (Not Bad)!!! For Greenskins they make sense since they can end up recruiting them within one turn with the tech tree. So spam 3 or 4 in your army at an industrial pace definitely makes them worth it. For other factions, ehh. The point that you made stand, as well as they more often than not take something like 3 or 4 turns. Hljust to be replaced in the end with something that does their job better
Also all those faction have to rush into meele as they are rush factions, a slow giant is just a massive slow target, when they have monsters that are damage dealers but fast and smaller targets
Hard disagree on the war wagons: In campaign, they're well worth the meager extra cost and are recruited at the same tier. Mobility+ 360 arc allows for much larger effective range as they can kite initially and join their own lines afterwards. The height advantage allows them to continue firing behind their own troops or if supported by a knight escort. And they can block cav and monsters in a pinch if your warmachins are threatened. Hell, they're even competitive in multiplayer (not that I'm in any way an expert on the matter). Either go Handgunners or go War Wagons imho opinion. I'm not overly impressed by outriders because of their range and non-360 firing arc. Speed is great but still slower than the usual threats of doggies and light cav which war wagons can somewhat tank until help arrives. Obviously archers and regular spearmen suck ass too, but they do what they're supposed to do for the price and tier range.
Giants have been bad for a decade 😂. Curious on your thoughts on the worst units in those armies in which you put Giant? (Greenskins, Norsca, Beatsmen etc…)
Best comment on this thread. I like this channel. However this guy is delusional when it comes to Giants. I think he was touched by Giants when he was a child😆
The War Wagon point has me wondering - esp. the thing with Skirmish mode; Are there any ranged units apart from dedicated Skirmish units that benefit from Skirmish mode? Outriders are fine with it or Nightrunners/Gutterrunners but every single other ranged unit I played with suffers massively from Skirmish mode enabled.
I recruited the RoR Giant for Archaon in my Campaign because I just wanted to quickly pad out his roster after a hard fight. Gave him the war banner that gives him strider and faster speed. I just keep rushing him into enemy blobs to distract the enemies while my army get's into position and he just refuses to die. I am quite surprised at how useful he has become.....
@@kujakuu Yeah that campaign was on normal. It was my first Immortal Empires Campaign so I wanted a more relaxed play through while I orient myself. Honestly it got boring by turn 60 as it was essentially just easy map painter for Archaon at that point. I don't play on Legendary tho, it get's way too cheesy at that point and I like to immerse myself in a bit of roleplay when playing campaign. Hope there's gonna be some battle reworks Mods like in Medieval 2 or Rome 2 that made battles longer and grindy. The ones in Warhammer 3 are over pretty quick unless multiple armies reinforce each other.
@@kujakuu Warriors of Chaos have a research that improves their missile resistance. Also, anything you send in solo will get focused and die. If you watch Legend of Total War, someone sent in a Doomstack of Giants and they are actually good. Nothing changed for other factions giants through.
Giants might be big, slow, awkward and shot to pieces easy, but they make for decent budget duelists if you need a lord/hero dealt with due to sheer damage/health, handy to help a caster lord deal with some melee bully. so on that basis I vote the Ungor spearman because his combat stats are only ever slightly better than his ranged counterpart, but you'll never want to use them due to Ungor raiders being unlimited.
@@AliothAncalagon Rangers are better then regular miners. Want a vanguard force? Rangers with Miners(BC) will do the job. If you can get Blasting Charges, you will never recruit regular Miners. Rangers are still decent ranged unit.
Nice video man! I would only disagree about the dryads. In all my WE campaigns they tend to outperform eternal guard in every possible way. The have a good charge, cause fear and tend to last longer than eg despite their lower defence stats.
I literally cannot stop looking at the dog b r o I don't even know what you look like anymore the dog is too adorable Edit: WHERE DOG MY LIFE IS CRUMBLING BEFORE ME
2:57 Mounted yeomen archers the stinkers? Are we talking about the faction with grail reliques here? Mounted yeomen are actually decently versatile, and at the very least better then yeomen. 4:45 I dislike how they actually nerfed manticores from wh2 to 3. They were considered bad in wh2, but at least in that game 2 manticores could goon a dragon. They lost their ap, while dragons got buffed. 7:35 in my opinion jade warrior halberds are pretty bad. For a faction that is all about having the frontline soak up damage with the back dealing it, the halberds have worse melee defence, and on top of that they don't have shields. As a flanking stopper, using peasant long spears works just as well, and as a frontline they just don't work as well. Yes the war compas as a mount is better then normal compass, but if you can't recruit an astromancer due to cap you may want to put 1 in the army regardless. But between peasant longspears and celestial dragonguard, the jade halberd is just a waste.
Rangers get snipe from a thane. Snipe is always great. The real worst unit on the dwarf roster are Miners, because miners are just flat out worse at doing what dwarf warriors do. The only reason you ever recruit miners is because you either can’t afford warriors, or you can’t recruit warriors due to a lack of barracks.
I don't know if they now Rampage give a bonus to Weapon Strenght or Melee Attack, but it would be really cool if any time a unit enter on rampage, it make it just hit harder, so, this balance the fact about not having any control of it, beceaus there is no way a unit that enter on a stance of, murdering non stop and not following any order, just straight up running to kill watever he find even if is a friend, is not hitting harder to kill it more faster and go with the next foe or victim
imho, I find both brilliant and perfectly executed the French accent from Bretonnia. It fits the theme perfectly from my perspective, the design team definitely nailed it in that regard. In addition to the fact that the voice acting is really great, it is very well done and gives life and essence to the characters of the faction. plus its just fun, they managed to make the characters sound both heroic and funny at the same time.
War wagons are actually a lynchpin unit for empire in multiplayer. Never sleep on war wagons ability to gun down armoured targets while also surviving a charge or a volley.
Giants, I would argue, are good for armies that can either; A) give them a metric fuckton of missile defense B) heal them through the damage that they take and increase their healing cap. Festus and the WoC can do both of those things, making them incredibly strong (though perhaps they still have better options; exalted heroes, dragon ogres/shaggoths) On that note, I'd argue for the WoC their Chaos Spawn (undivided) are the worst unit. There is no reason whatsoever not to devote them to your god of choice, or better yet, not take them. Their damage (on non-Khorne ones) is mid at best, they're surprisingly expensive, and they're also quite large targets. Unbreakable is nice, but really, there are better options available.
I used 2 "doom"stacks of mounted yeomen archers that i got when i confederated mogen in WH2, an entire army full of them easily beats most early game TK armies, just kite until you are out of ammo on all your horse archers and you have usually won
I'm gonna disagree with the Warriors of Chaos pick and say that the chaos feral manticore is worse. its gonna die even faster than the giant, and still sucks even if the enemy DOESNT have a lot of missile units.
Devoted marauders of slaanesh are one of the best units in the game at the moment. Best tier 1 infantry in the game and if you rush the tech for them for +6 melee attack and soporific musk they end up trading with a lot of mid tier infantry. Physical resistance, very high melee attack and defense with the upgrades, mid 30s speed, cheap as hell and with a bonus vs infantry.
doesnt the whip and spear varient not get the same buff? and if you have the research shouldn't you be having warriors of slanesh if not chosen of slaanesh. also the video is not about how much you can buff em
@@chaos_xander7910 You rush that tech early anyways, its on the same line as your gift of slaanesh boost and replenishment. Chaos warriors and chosen are good for a few armies but cost far more so most of your stacks late game can still run marauders. Basic marauders are cheaper, recruited from a settlement building and have strong killing power thanks to bonus vs infantry. Spearman aren't needed because hellstriders are anti large and trade well even with late game cav. Hellscourges have 0 AP and should never be used for infantry. Basic t1 devoted marauders best almost every other low tier infantry in the game, by themselves and trade well with mid tiers. The charge defense and melee defense you get from the other variants isn't needed because the standard marauder already has a ton of defense and debuffs the attack of other units, enemy cav and sems ends up being handled by your cavalry.
the point of spearmen is not just anti large tho, they also have better melee defence this survive longer, with slaanesh your infantry should hold and not do damage damage dealers are demonettes chariots and cav
@@chaos_xander7910 the spearman of slaanesh have the same melee defense as the regular though hence why you don't use them. More expensive, same defense and much worse at killing. Charge Def Vs large doesn't matter as you should always outnumber them with your cavalry which also beat out everything else until t4
@@millsy800 oh i didnt know that tho charge defence can still be usefull in some situations also even tho the whips have no AP they can still be really good as they take no damage so can hold till the chariots arive hence why chosen of slaanesh with hellscourges are on of the best infantry units
The Devoted Marauders of Slaanesh were classified as a middling tier unit in a Legend of Total War video. They are a cheap cannon fodder unit that can hold its own against low end infantry, while most units charge the flanks.
Feral cold ones are definitly a strange unit. Recruitable from a resource building? Low entity numbers per unit? And they don't even get red-line bonuses despite being listed as cold one cavalry.
Dwarf here, and I agree that regular rangers are pointless. The main reason I never recruit them, nor waste a city slot on their necessary building, is one you didn't mention. You can't protect them if they are deployed vanguard. They - will - be discovered and they - will - be annihilated and cause very little damage before that happens. They can't run away and they can't beat anything in melee except the lowest of low-tier infantry. So if you deploy them vanguard, then expect to lose them without having achieved anything that justifies their cost.
Rangers with Thane can make a stalk snipe army with decent range... also WoC Giants are strong, especially with Festus - tons of missile / physical resistance and heals
Omg man you started with what seems like a logical pick, of course we hate giant since the beginning... BUT beastmen have no recruitment cost, and can have a few giants easily. They die, you replace them while being invisible on the maps. The worst beastmen unit is the spear ungor : same stats than archer ungor withouth the bow so no reason to use them. Giants on the other hand I always get a few and they fit their role to die for your cause.
Oh god! Why are you using dryads to make a front line!?!? They’re flanker units like Wardancers or Wild Riders….. but worse - so placement makes sense, reasoning felt a bit off.
I actually really hate how many lines of the skaven tech tree force you to waste turns upgrading clan rats and slaves before you can get some actually decent upgrades
Giants should get 60% missile resist and 20% speed bonus when not in melee. 60% missile resist because giant skin is supposed to be really thick and tough. Speed because well, a giant striding or running should be as fast as the slowest cavalry.
Cathay's worst unit is the Sky Lantern. It is trash (Junk😂). The compass at least gives the ying/yang buff to artillery and it gives mastery of the elemental winds. But I don't recruit it either, you have the Astomancer for that (if not the buff for that one)
Disagree with war wagons. With healing they can tank a lot of enemy arrows getting rid of their ammo, they operate alright as chariots, and they can intercept horses and do alright in the trade and win with any ground support.
War wagons are actually kinda dope. They are good for skirmishing and can be used to widdle down elite infantry, monsters or lord sniping and their mass gives them decent damage when charged into enemy missile units. The worst empire unit is either the spearmen without shields, or empire knights.
have to disagree with you on nurgle yes the rotflies are trash but nurgle is all about blobbing the enemy up while you endure and then exploding the blobs and one unit ruins it having this unit is actually worse then not having any unit at all and that is the frogs yes they tried to buff them with antilarge so they have some semi use as a countercav but they arnt even good at that so all they do is charge in the back and ruin the blobs the faction relies on and unlike the rotflies, the rider doesnt even improve this trash
Nurgle Plaugedrones get regen if you occupy Pigbrater, directly to the left of the first province in the campaign, making them more sustainable than their supirior versions in low tier armies. They are not the best but they should not be skipped. Nurgle has poison warhounds, those are his worst unit.
6:30 I wish you could build a non RoR version of the hellblasters, because that unit fucking shreds It kills karstein before they can hurt you Its great.
Do people just throw giants alone into groups of units and arrow units, expecting them to just win? Giants are good centers of power on the battlefield, terror and infantry splash attacks make them solid. And missile resistance is common for factions that have them.
I can finally start my DOOMED STACK campaigns
Smartass😂😂😂😂
Bro same 😮
An overlooked detail on war wagons is that their unit height allows them to shoot over infantry lines. Doesn't necessarily justify their price compared to handgunners, but they can do a reasonable job of sniping a high value unit from behind your own line
Really wish they could just become fortifications. They're not big enough to break the game. And they could just give them upped health so they can be broken through.
they are terrible good for MP Empire
If they were a little faster, tankier, and did a little more damage, you could make a better case for them (because war sleds are f*cking amazing).
They couldn't do that In wh2 either
@@AliothAncalagon I guess that's a solution if you have the allegiance points for it. You'd be underperforming if you run a heavy red skills Empire lord
(I never do though, red skills makes everything OP).
WW might fall short, but don't forget the initial kiting can vastly extend their range, mobility gives better flanking shots and they're really good at drawing AI units in the open for your other shooting or cav to wreck them.
Unironically dont think Giants are the WoC worst unit, they have so many ways of buffing their missile resist that they actually become good units. the worst one here is once again the feral manticore or warhound because you have simular chance to get warhounds with poison which are the same but better.
Pastures huff feral manticores and chaos warhounds by 5% per building making feral manticores viable doom stacks late game. I disagree with them being the worst units but it is fair to take into account that it will take a few turns before you get enough pastures to make them usable
@@JMarcus52 yeah but then you need like 18 pasture buildings, good luck with that. I totally agree, but its not practical
Yep. Can have 55+% missile resist on a group of giants. Can be pretty hard to recruit early unless you take the dwarf mountains early. Meanwhile kind of hard to gather enough pastures to make war hounds ever as good as the common marauder
@@dumbboyalex4396 yeah but manticores can be pretty good and if you just go into the empire, there are many pastures there
@@jobvermuyen5382 I said war hounds.
For Cathay I would pick the Sky Lantern. Not the Sky Junk, as those are actually useful, but the regular Sky Lanterns are trash. They are slow, do meh damage and get taken down by pretty much anything that can reach it or hit it
Vampire Coast, man the Depth Guard received a nice buff and are REALLY good. I get the whole playstyle with "Why not get zombies?" because the Depth guard look fucking cool and beat the shit out of many other infantry that want to touch my apples
they are pretty good at lord sniping
also you cant shoot over depth guard
@@iniudan ranged units couldnt be more generic and every ranged unit can blow the lantern out of the sky in the blink of an eye.
Joining melee units is hard when you cant get anywhere close to an enemy ranged unit.
Sky Junks are unique because they are flying siege pieces. They have a unique angle of fire. Being able to fire down directly into enemy units makes a good difference. They also can move much more freely and assume new effective firing positions like other artillery pieces cant. Even after the melee lines have connected they can (depending on the matchup) get into flanking positions to effectively fire into enemy formations that are currently in melee for example. In my personal experience they often racked up more kills than the normal rocket battery despite having only a third of the firepower on paper.
Agreed, honestly one celestial comet from a compass will do more damage than a sky lantern would in 3 battles. They also have some benefit keeping harmony up for those longer range units like crane gunners and artillery which actually gain substantial dps gains with fire rate.
@@bobmishima3295 problem is you dont need the compass to get the compas just get any wizard
Warriors of Chaos giants are actually decent, recently saw a doomstack of them, and it was actually really, really, really scary.
I do like having the odd Giant in my armies, they are good for fighting Chaos as Greasus as well as they have little to no ranged. Great video as ever
Giants, are great at killing lords and heroes.
Giants actually arent bad at all ive had them get on average 200 to 300 kills a battle against High elves, you just need to ensure the ai fires at something else before you send them in, they can also be devastating in sieges
yup. in campaign giants are great, because you can outfox the AI and disable their missile units before sending the giant in. I think multiplayer is where giants are the real pincushions - but even so, not the worst unit
@@UnleashedOdinV2 i wouldnt know
Dog should be in every video. Very good opinions
I like the war wagons, the shooters don't die until the entity itself dies, they can't be interrupted when shooting, having height you can shoot more easily, there are better options in everything, but I wouldn't say they are the worst unit imperial.
The deep guard is funny because it's, well, it's a guard for ranged units, but you can make a whole army of them against counts and Slaanesh since they don't have ranged weapons and vampirates are masters at it, apart to have monsters. The opponent will do his best to counter the rifles, mortars and giant crabs, mainly dealing damage against large and fast but soft units that can dispatch marksmen, to collide with halberds and armored meat grinders.
Mad disagree with the beastmen giant. It’s free and the ungor spearmen are worse.
I will be the voice of the people here... we want a video, (full 30 min) ABOUT THE DOG
You present well, good pacing, and funny. Keep going man and you will make it.
Some genuinely befuddling choices on here:
Giants for Beastmen are fine, because they have unit caps and a Giant is going to be a lot better than an Ungor Raider or Spearmen Unit.
Mounted Yeomen Archers are not the worst unit on the Bretonnian roster, both the regular mounted yeomen and especially the Grail Reliquae are so much worse. Having fast skirmish cav has its uses, giving immune to psych in a tiny area to units with terrible leadership does not.
Dark Elves and Dwarfs I agree with your choices, Daemons don't really count.
Empire I'd probably say the Luminark is worse than the War Wagon, the War Wagon has its uses against some races that could easily shut down your handgunners, like Vampire Counts.
Cathay has an argument for the Skylantern being worse because it'll just not do anything, at least the War Compass will get decent kills even if the Astromancer mount is objectively better.
Greenskins I'd probably argue the Wolf Chariot and Boar Chariots are pretty much entirely useless and arguably worse than the Giant.
High Elves you're probably right, I never recruit that chariot, though I'll mention the Eagle being pretty crap too.
The Khorne Argument I don't really understand, almost every unit works like this, I don't see why Warhounds get singled out for being bad because of this. Frankly I'd argue there's way more of a case for calling the Blood Throne bad as you can get it as a mount for a Bloodreaper instead or indeed the same argument for the Warshrine with the Cultist.
Kislev you are probably right though I'd just include every single unit that is in that cavalry building chain, you really just never build that.
Yeah Feral Cold Ones suck, bang on.
The argument for the Plague Drones again doesn't really hold up since Nurgle has recruitment pools, so if you have Rot Flies you might as well take them, you can't always recruit Plague Drones instead. I'd argue the worst unit for Nurgle are the Nurgle Chariots which I'd never recruit or again the Warshrine since it's a mount for the Cultist.
Skaven you are probably right, Clanrats without shield are not great and slaves are more efficient, standard Slaanesh Marauders are likewise quite bad, you'd wanna use the spears 99% of the time unless you're fighting like Dwarfs. Tomb Kings likewise correct, Carrion are awful and them having their own building chain is stupid. Basic Tzeentch Marauders have the upside of being cheap, but you could just get the spear ones instead like with the slaanesh marauders.
Depth Guard are not the worst unit on the Coast Roster, like even if their playstyle doesn't lean into melee, at least Depth Guard do something. Unlike Deck Droppers with Pistols which do no damage and die in a stiff breeze.
Vampire Counts yeah not much of a point to the basic corpse cart, it's neat as like a slot filler from your raise dead pool but not going to do much.
Warriors of Chaos I'd say the Feral Manticore is worse than the Giant, but they're both pretty bad. Again though with how Warriors of Chaos work, a Giant is going to do a hell of a lot more work than a single Marauder unit, so I'd still use them.
Wood Elves it's definitely not the Dryad, it's either the Hawk Riders or the Eagle, Dryads have their uses and those 2 units do nothing and are in their own building chain which doesn't get a good unit until t5 with the Forest Dragon.
Plague drones are a waste of space in the army. Their stats look ok but they have terrible animations and never pay for themselves.
For Greenskins, i would say Goblin wolf raiders. They just don't do anything. Even Wolf Chariots at least have weak us shooting and can do some morale damage when they roll through. Goblin Wolf Raiders lose to most ranged units in melee.
Is it wrong that the bretonian accent is one of the main reasons I enjoy them?
Hot take: I actually like Feral Manticores in the early game. Not too expensive and can split armies pretty well after killing units of archers or arty pretty well, making the enemy formation completely open to frontal attacks. I usually use 1 of them alongside 1 unit of harpies and together they seem to work better than 2 harpie groups.
Giants vs factions that lack range arent bad… a couple of giants can do pretty good vs vcounts and used to be used often in multiplayer
Giants are solid in some matchups in MP.
Dealing with giant as Skarbrand in the first 10 turns of the campaign was a nightmare. He eviscerated most of army all by himself.
If you have a way to heal the giant they also good at making the enemy waste resource, as giant might be easy to shoot, they they still take lot of shot to take down, as they have ridiculously high health for a T3 single entity unit.
The problem is that most faction with giant also tend to be the faction without healing. Only Ogre and Nurgle warrior (Undivided also through that, but that the time you unlock Nurgle wizard lord why are you still be using giant as anything but a melee siege engine?) have both giant and healing.
How is the Dwarf unit not the regular miner?
Miners are dirt cheap easy to recruit and will tank a bunch of goblins forever, buying time for your decent units to do damage.
I'm amused at the war wagon part -- its like one of the best units in pvp lol
I am french and there is nothing I hate more than Bretonnian voices. It is so exaggerated that I cannot even understand half of their dialogues the first time I hear it. So everything you said about them is accepted.
ils auraient du les faire parler français directement au lieu de cet accent vraiment degueulasse.
in that case, they could have made the empire troops speak german, that would have been cool
The feral manticore is pretty good in early game in my opinion. If you play Vilitch and have to deal with a lot of ranged units - before you get your unique item and like 7 Tzeentchian Sorcerers and end up being immortal due to your high winds reserve and insane regeneration, the feral manticores are fantastic to distract the archers! Just pretending to attack them but actually just dodging their arrows is often enough to let your troops come in and then let it rip through the archers. Yes, it's not the greatest, but I'll take it over regular hounds any time!
I find a unit or 2 of reserve Depth Guard is very helpful, especially the halberd versions. They can quickly fill a gap in your lines or deal with flankers very well.
Devoted Marauders? Hard disagree. They have a +7 bonus vs infantry which is pretty much unrivaled for a tier 0 unit. They trade up against nearly all infantry you fight early game, stick in fights with the help of ItP, and can be buffed through early techs that give them Musk (an effective +5 to MD and MA) and additional physical resist. They’re a chaff-priced unit that kills like good mid tier infantry.
Spears and Hellscourges, even with those same buffs, do FAR less damage to infantry, while costing more. Spears at least have the anti large niche (though hellstriders are great and you should use both variants), but Scourges are terrible. You pay more to lose the bonus vs infantry and absolutely all AP damage, just to get some extra MD and charge defense for a faction that has no way to fight other than being on the offensive. It’s a toss up between them and the normal Daemonettes for worst Slaanesh unit, imo. By the time in campaign where you are facing mostly high armor enemy armies, you should be able to afford Warrior/Chosen of Slaanesh, which hold far better than Hellscourges while doing, again, much more damage because they actually get to have AP.
Worst unit only doomstack only challenge time.
Personally I think giants are currently worse simply because every faction with access to them has something you'll want more. Ghorgons shred through their opponents, Idols are literally giant stone walls, and stonehorns are living battering rams. The giants are redundant. They need some ability to give them extra spice, like a falling down animation.
Agreed! This argument ACTUALLY makes sense to why Giants are obsolete (Not Bad)!!! For Greenskins they make sense since they can end up recruiting them within one turn with the tech tree. So spam 3 or 4 in your army at an industrial pace definitely makes them worth it. For other factions, ehh. The point that you made stand, as well as they more often than not take something like 3 or 4 turns. Hljust to be replaced in the end with something that does their job better
Also all those faction have to rush into meele as they are rush factions, a slow giant is just a massive slow target, when they have monsters that are damage dealers but fast and smaller targets
Hard disagree on the war wagons:
In campaign, they're well worth the meager extra cost and are recruited at the same tier.
Mobility+ 360 arc allows for much larger effective range as they can kite initially and join their own lines afterwards. The height advantage allows them to continue firing behind their own troops or if supported by a knight escort. And they can block cav and monsters in a pinch if your warmachins are threatened.
Hell, they're even competitive in multiplayer (not that I'm in any way an expert on the matter).
Either go Handgunners or go War Wagons imho opinion. I'm not overly impressed by outriders because of their range and non-360 firing arc. Speed is great but still slower than the usual threats of doggies and light cav which war wagons can somewhat tank until help arrives.
Obviously archers and regular spearmen suck ass too, but they do what they're supposed to do for the price and tier range.
I have different opinion on manticore here. Because they are cheap terror bomb unit with low recuit time.
I like them too
Now I've seen giants in action, those things are legendary lord-killers!
Giants have been bad for a decade 😂. Curious on your thoughts on the worst units in those armies in which you put Giant? (Greenskins, Norsca, Beatsmen etc…)
Giants are ok on the beastmen roster : they are free ! They die you replace them. They serve their purpose of soaking up damage.
Best comment on this thread. I like this channel. However this guy is delusional when it comes to Giants.
I think he was touched by Giants when he was a child😆
The War Wagon point has me wondering - esp. the thing with Skirmish mode;
Are there any ranged units apart from dedicated Skirmish units that benefit from Skirmish mode?
Outriders are fine with it or Nightrunners/Gutterrunners but every single other ranged unit I played with suffers massively from Skirmish mode enabled.
There are some wood elf, high elf and lizardmen units that also work well with scrimmage
I think cameleon skinks are good with skirmish mode, a lot of wood elf units too!
did not expect this style of video for an rts but I like it good job 👍
Ok that’s dog’s adorable 🥰 Daxons are always a great choice!
My man, you are totally digging that moustache 👍 cooler than balthasar gelt
I recruited the RoR Giant for Archaon in my Campaign because I just wanted to quickly pad out his roster after a hard fight. Gave him the war banner that gives him strider and faster speed.
I just keep rushing him into enemy blobs to distract the enemies while my army get's into position and he just refuses to die. I am quite surprised at how useful he has become.....
yeah no way ure playing on more than normal, on hard or very hard they get completely destroyed by focused fire
@@kujakuu Yeah that campaign was on normal. It was my first Immortal Empires Campaign so I wanted a more relaxed play through while I orient myself. Honestly it got boring by turn 60 as it was essentially just easy map painter for Archaon at that point.
I don't play on Legendary tho, it get's way too cheesy at that point and I like to immerse myself in a bit of roleplay when playing campaign. Hope there's gonna be some battle reworks Mods like in Medieval 2 or Rome 2 that made battles longer and grindy. The ones in Warhammer 3 are over pretty quick unless multiple armies reinforce each other.
@@kujakuu Warriors of Chaos have a research that improves their missile resistance. Also, anything you send in solo will get focused and die. If you watch Legend of Total War, someone sent in a Doomstack of Giants and they are actually good. Nothing changed for other factions giants through.
Giants might be big, slow, awkward and shot to pieces easy, but they make for decent budget duelists if you need a lord/hero dealt with due to sheer damage/health, handy to help a caster lord deal with some melee bully. so on that basis I vote the Ungor spearman because his combat stats are only ever slightly better than his ranged counterpart, but you'll never want to use them due to Ungor raiders being unlimited.
I'd say shielded ungor spearmen are worse, due to the basic ungor spearmen also being unlimited in their capacity
The use of flanking with ranged units is to destroy shielded units in the back and let's be honest basically all frontline units have shields.
@@AliothAncalagon Rangers are better then regular miners. Want a vanguard force? Rangers with Miners(BC) will do the job. If you can get Blasting Charges, you will never recruit regular Miners. Rangers are still decent ranged unit.
"where dog" made me laungh a lot more than it should have s tier music choice for it
Dryads have magic damage, make taking out demons much easier.
Nice video man! I would only disagree about the dryads. In all my WE campaigns they tend to outperform eternal guard in every possible way. The have a good charge, cause fear and tend to last longer than eg despite their lower defence stats.
I think it depends on what your fighting.
Sorry if we were abit too mean with the best units video lmao
Rangers are one of the few units I back when building a army to fight Skaven.
I literally cannot stop looking at the dog b r o
I don't even know what you look like anymore the dog is too adorable
Edit: WHERE DOG
MY LIFE IS CRUMBLING BEFORE ME
what a cute DOG
2:57 Mounted yeomen archers the stinkers? Are we talking about the faction with grail reliques here? Mounted yeomen are actually decently versatile, and at the very least better then yeomen.
4:45 I dislike how they actually nerfed manticores from wh2 to 3. They were considered bad in wh2, but at least in that game 2 manticores could goon a dragon. They lost their ap, while dragons got buffed.
7:35 in my opinion jade warrior halberds are pretty bad. For a faction that is all about having the frontline soak up damage with the back dealing it, the halberds have worse melee defence, and on top of that they don't have shields. As a flanking stopper, using peasant long spears works just as well, and as a frontline they just don't work as well. Yes the war compas as a mount is better then normal compass, but if you can't recruit an astromancer due to cap you may want to put 1 in the army regardless. But between peasant longspears and celestial dragonguard, the jade halberd is just a waste.
Rangers get snipe from a thane. Snipe is always great. The real worst unit on the dwarf roster are Miners, because miners are just flat out worse at doing what dwarf warriors do. The only reason you ever recruit miners is because you either can’t afford warriors, or you can’t recruit warriors due to a lack of barracks.
As a French, I feel like the over-exageration of bretonnian's accent is even more tilting...
Glad to see the furry Private Damneders is helping his commanding officer
I don't know if they now Rampage give a bonus to Weapon Strenght or Melee Attack, but it would be really cool if any time a unit enter on rampage, it make it just hit harder, so, this balance the fact about not having any control of it, beceaus there is no way a unit that enter on a stance of, murdering non stop and not following any order, just straight up running to kill watever he find even if is a friend, is not hitting harder to kill it more faster and go with the next foe or victim
imho, I find both brilliant and perfectly executed the French accent from Bretonnia. It fits the theme perfectly from my perspective, the design team definitely nailed it in that regard. In addition to the fact that the voice acting is really great, it is very well done and gives life and essence to the characters of the faction. plus its just fun, they managed to make the characters sound both heroic and funny at the same time.
War wagons are actually a lynchpin unit for empire in multiplayer. Never sleep on war wagons ability to gun down armoured targets while also surviving a charge or a volley.
This is campaign but agree
Solid thumbs up for the dog 😁👍
Giants, I would argue, are good for armies that can either;
A) give them a metric fuckton of missile defense
B) heal them through the damage that they take and increase their healing cap.
Festus and the WoC can do both of those things, making them incredibly strong (though perhaps they still have better options; exalted heroes, dragon ogres/shaggoths)
On that note, I'd argue for the WoC their Chaos Spawn (undivided) are the worst unit. There is no reason whatsoever not to devote them to your god of choice, or better yet, not take them. Their damage (on non-Khorne ones) is mid at best, they're surprisingly expensive, and they're also quite large targets. Unbreakable is nice, but really, there are better options available.
war wagons are extremely oppressive in multiplayer.
I used 2 "doom"stacks of mounted yeomen archers that i got when i confederated mogen in WH2, an entire army full of them easily beats most early game TK armies, just kite until you are out of ammo on all your horse archers and you have usually won
Hon hon hon hon hon
I'm gonna disagree with the Warriors of Chaos pick and say that the chaos feral manticore is worse. its gonna die even faster than the giant, and still sucks even if the enemy DOESNT have a lot of missile units.
Devoted marauders of slaanesh are one of the best units in the game at the moment. Best tier 1 infantry in the game and if you rush the tech for them for +6 melee attack and soporific musk they end up trading with a lot of mid tier infantry.
Physical resistance, very high melee attack and defense with the upgrades, mid 30s speed, cheap as hell and with a bonus vs infantry.
doesnt the whip and spear varient not get the same buff? and if you have the research shouldn't you be having warriors of slanesh if not chosen of slaanesh. also the video is not about how much you can buff em
@@chaos_xander7910 You rush that tech early anyways, its on the same line as your gift of slaanesh boost and replenishment. Chaos warriors and chosen are good for a few armies but cost far more so most of your stacks late game can still run marauders.
Basic marauders are cheaper, recruited from a settlement building and have strong killing power thanks to bonus vs infantry. Spearman aren't needed because hellstriders are anti large and trade well even with late game cav. Hellscourges have 0 AP and should never be used for infantry. Basic t1 devoted marauders best almost every other low tier infantry in the game, by themselves and trade well with mid tiers. The charge defense and melee defense you get from the other variants isn't needed because the standard marauder already has a ton of defense and debuffs the attack of other units, enemy cav and sems ends up being handled by your cavalry.
the point of spearmen is not just anti large tho, they also have better melee defence this survive longer, with slaanesh your infantry should hold and not do damage
damage dealers are demonettes chariots and cav
@@chaos_xander7910 the spearman of slaanesh have the same melee defense as the regular though hence why you don't use them. More expensive, same defense and much worse at killing. Charge Def Vs large doesn't matter as you should always outnumber them with your cavalry which also beat out everything else until t4
@@millsy800 oh i didnt know that tho charge defence can still be usefull in some situations
also even tho the whips have no AP they can still be really good as they take no damage so can hold till the chariots arive hence why chosen of slaanesh with hellscourges are on of the best infantry units
What a well rounded secondary opinion 🤌
Chaos Nurgle Doomstack of giants is actually quite good.
The Devoted Marauders of Slaanesh were classified as a middling tier unit in a Legend of Total War video. They are a cheap cannon fodder unit that can hold its own against low end infantry, while most units charge the flanks.
Feral cold ones are definitly a strange unit.
Recruitable from a resource building?
Low entity numbers per unit?
And they don't even get red-line bonuses despite being listed as cold one cavalry.
Hear me out: occupy rangeestreet before moving the giant in.
I commend you for arriving straight from the emo concert to film this video. Cheers mate.
Dwarf here, and I agree that regular rangers are pointless. The main reason I never recruit them, nor waste a city slot on their necessary building, is one you didn't mention. You can't protect them if they are deployed vanguard. They - will - be discovered and they - will - be annihilated and cause very little damage before that happens. They can't run away and they can't beat anything in melee except the lowest of low-tier infantry. So if you deploy them vanguard, then expect to lose them without having achieved anything that justifies their cost.
Dwarves rangers are great when it comes to stealth capturing victory points during siege battles. Only this justify a couple of them in a stack.
And the crossbow variant is way better than the GW axe throwers
Rangers with Thane can make a stalk snipe army with decent range...
also WoC Giants are strong, especially with Festus - tons of missile / physical resistance and heals
NGL i liked the video but the "where dog" made me immediately like the video haha
I agree with virtually every choice, except maybe Depth Guards. But I also confess I don't have that much experience with VCoast either.
I want this guy to do a Giant only play through.
Omg man you started with what seems like a logical pick, of course we hate giant since the beginning... BUT beastmen have no recruitment cost, and can have a few giants easily. They die, you replace them while being invisible on the maps. The worst beastmen unit is the spear ungor : same stats than archer ungor withouth the bow so no reason to use them. Giants on the other hand I always get a few and they fit their role to die for your cause.
Wow you went from 0 to 36k in one video. Keep it up
Nurgle rot flies are the worst and would have been my pick but all of them have the issue of light mass for the size of the model.
Oh god! Why are you using dryads to make a front line!?!? They’re flanker units like Wardancers or Wild Riders….. but worse - so placement makes sense, reasoning felt a bit off.
Depth Guard worse than bloaters? I'm not saying that you're wrong, I just very much think it.
I actually really hate how many lines of the skaven tech tree force you to waste turns upgrading clan rats and slaves before you can get some actually decent upgrades
How come the comments on this arent all about the dog. That is unironically the cutest doggo ive seen!
i know right! absolutely adorable
pink horrors
all the stats of a peasant archer with near sightedness for the cost of an elite infantry
Cam for the info, stayed for the laughs xD
Giants should get 60% missile resist and 20% speed bonus when not in melee.
60% missile resist because giant skin is supposed to be really thick and tough.
Speed because well, a giant striding or running should be as fast as the slowest cavalry.
Sir your doggy is PERFECT
“Un-ironically French” 😂
For dwarves it’s miners because they have objectively no use because miners with blast charges exist and you can just get them
Cathay's worst unit is the Sky Lantern. It is trash (Junk😂). The compass at least gives the ying/yang buff to artillery and it gives mastery of the elemental winds. But I don't recruit it either, you have the Astomancer for that (if not the buff for that one)
Nanu's armored giants mod is wonderful
Feral cold one doomstacks are only useful if you'd ever wonder what would an army of chiuauas look like
the fact the mounted yeomen got picked over the fucking scarecrow boggles the mind. the grail reliquae is easily the worst unit in the whole game
Disagree with war wagons. With healing they can tank a lot of enemy arrows getting rid of their ammo, they operate alright as chariots, and they can intercept horses and do alright in the trade and win with any ground support.
13:42 At least he didn't say Stormvermin.
The worst dwarf unit by far is the stake launcher. The dwarves have amazing artillery but the stake launcher is completely useless
Have they not made Giants tier 3 for all races?
HE SHARED TO US HIS HATRED TOWARD FRENCH PEOPLE 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
For Bretonia it’s definitely the grail relique and everyone that says something else probably never recruited them 😂
you should do each faction per tier, and should also exclude universal units
War wagons are actually kinda dope. They are good for skirmishing and can be used to widdle down elite infantry, monsters or lord sniping and their mass gives them decent damage when charged into enemy missile units. The worst empire unit is either the spearmen without shields, or empire knights.
have to disagree with you on nurgle
yes the rotflies are trash
but nurgle is all about blobbing the enemy up while you endure and then exploding the blobs
and one unit ruins it
having this unit is actually worse then not having any unit at all
and that is the frogs
yes they tried to buff them with antilarge so they have some semi use as a countercav
but they arnt even good at that
so all they do is charge in the back and ruin the blobs the faction relies on
and unlike the rotflies, the rider doesnt even improve this trash
Devoted marauders are fucking monsters
Nurgle Plaugedrones get regen if you occupy Pigbrater, directly to the left of the first province in the campaign, making them more sustainable than their supirior versions in low tier armies. They are not the best but they should not be skipped. Nurgle has poison warhounds, those are his worst unit.
There’s a lot of units on here that are top tier units in competitive play
6:30 I wish you could build a non RoR version of the hellblasters, because that unit fucking shreds
It kills karstein before they can hurt you
Its great.
Shit, I completely forgot Carrions even existed....
Do people just throw giants alone into groups of units and arrow units, expecting them to just win? Giants are good centers of power on the battlefield, terror and infantry splash attacks make them solid. And missile resistance is common for factions that have them.
the man is here and front and center. i love it