The Minbari were very caught up in prophecy. Of course, eventually we learn that this particular prophecy was partially informed by time travel..... But i love this quote from Vir Cotto: "Prophecy is a guess that comes true. When it doesn't, it's a metaphor."
"Prophecy is a guess that comes true. When it doesn't, it's a metaphor.". A wise series. Great writers, great directors, great actors. People that strived to make their work both memorable and useful. And they did.
well said. the whole scene and theme of humans being so great and special is PATHETIC. It reflects the extreme insecurity, narcissism and massive closet inferiority complex of those that promote it and those that buy into it: it's really pathetic. From star Trek, to Stargate to Babylon 5, this one aspect was really lame. Most other aspects of Babylon 5 was really good, but not this.
@@repealsection230forbigtech4 You obviously didn't watch B5, I would hardly call the Humans great or good guys in the show. Most of Earth Gov was in league with the Shadows and then you have PsiCorp. Not exactly a line up of heroes.
This women is one of the most badass actresses/characters in all of sci-fi television history. As a Trek fan, this show was good and she was toward the top of the reasons why
Having seen the entire series, I find these earlier episodes fascinating when they invoke “In Valen’s name.” Their whole later civilization is entirely based upon an Earthling named Commander Sinclair. That is the answer to their question why humans are special.
Well technically they stopped the war because they pulled a single human aboard... and that single human just happened to be the man who would become Valen... and so had a soul that the Mimbari would see as Mimbari. There is no real proof that any other human has "a Mimbari soul" Basically the human they randomly selected was taken, him being taken made him distrusted messed up his career which put in a position to be placed on B5 by Mimbari request. He then develops a close friendship with the Mimbari Ambassador who later takes the DNA of Sinclair from a 1000 years earlier to give her human characteristics. Sinclair becomes a Ranger, learns the Mimbari ways and Spirituality... uses the same device Dalenn Mimbari DNA to give himself Mimbari characteristics. So Delann uses a device a that was Valen's to combine her DNA with that of the Human DNA in it. That DNA is of course Sinclair's but he won't put it in to the device for another 2 years linearly but 4 years in the past as well... but seems to use the same Device Delann does as he uses Delann's DNA to make him look more mimbari... but where did the device come from? It just is.... no one seems to actually build it. Unless the Device was given to the Great Machine after Delann used it and the machine made a new one loaded with her DNA. Either way it all becomes a temporal mess that flows well. In the end though... It all seems to rely on one Mimbari selecting one human at Random but it can't be at Random because that Human becomes Valen and only becomes Valen because he is selected and is found to have a Mimbari soul because he is Valen which he only becomes because he is selected... It is a literal.. the Past cant exist with out the Present or future situation.
@@Kaziklu Pretty much agree with you. But one point, I forget the episode, it was the one where she had to appear before the Gray Council and justify her relationship with Sheridan. Anyway, it was discovered that Delann was linked ancestrally to Valen, aka, Sinclair. She was his great…etc great, granddaughter. That might have something to do with the connection she had to him and possibly why she chose that particular fighter to bring in and interrogate, some sort of mystical connection.
@@Kaziklu at some point in the series, Delen mentions that there are only 3 tr-iluminaries, as they are called. In later cannon, Cathereine Sakai gets stuck in the past, and she and Sinclair, now Valen, marry, leave Mimbar, and their decedents secretly returned, and with the help of the Rangers, return to Mimbar and rejoin society and spread their genome through the population.
I think what makes Human so special is that unlike many other species, the Vorlons AND the Shadows seemed to have had equal access to Humans over the centuries, where other species were either abandoned or wholly in one camp or the other. I believe humans had the kind of guidance that all species were supposed to have before Vorlon-Shadow relations broke down.
@@viix3815 However, it gave most of the human species a... *weird* trait; Kirk/Tiberius syndrome. Earth-Alliance had to make a bloody list for alien races they COULDN'T/SHOULDN'T SHAG, either by a xeno-anthropologist giving a look at cultural/romantic rituals or some poor schmuck or twenty found out the hard way.
it's not that, that i see. i like to think it's like the Vulcan said at the Vulcan embassy, Humans are hard to classify, all the other races have an aspect we can see and understand, Humans on the other hand show all the aspects at different times and it make them not only hard to understand, but also to classify. This was not the exact quote, so i didn't use quotes. But that is how i see both our strength as well as our weakness. We as individuals have different experiences, emotions and thoughts, that can be both an asset as well as an issue at times
@@crazylarryjr i agree, i just thought maybe, part of why that' may be the case is mixed influences. But then again, we don't have any examples of shadow inflences deep in the human past, only vorlon, which kinds kills my theory.
@@iona2225 is that not just a reasonable thing to do when interacting with other cultures with biological differences? or are you saying it’s weird to fuck an alien? who wouldn’t wanna fuck a sexy alien…
"They can be a great people, Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason about all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you, my only son". The greatest amongst the Minbari were already partly human.
_"You will give the people of Earth an ideal to aspire to. They'll race behind you. They'll stumble. They'll fall. But in time, they'll join the light with you, Kal. In time, you will help them...accomplish wonders."_
@@lour7299 The triluminary is, to the Minbari, an ancient religious artifact, given to them by the mysterious Valen, who was unknown to them but seemingly of them, who saved their species and the galaxy from annihilation by the shadows in the last war a thousand years ago. They have no idea that it is a device designed and built by the Vorlons, who with their technology understood and worked with the time loop of the figure Valen to their own ends, but who even they ultimately barely understood.
This scene makes me sad when I think of the later episode where elderly future Delenn shames the human journalists for their distortion of John's story. Her faith in humanity broken, although her own people aren't much better.
But it wouldn't have been possible without Jeffrey Sinclair going back a 1,000 years to become Valen the great Mimbari hero and winning the first Shadow War and then stopping the Earth/Mibari War because they recognized Valen's soul in him
Her faith in EARTH is broken. The whole point of that episode is that the humans of Earth are irrevocably damaged, unable to move forward in to the destiny she and Sheridan prepared for them, but that's no longer the sum total of humanity.
Alien: You're an interesting species. An interesting mix. You're capable of such beautiful dreams, and such horrible nightmares. You feel so lost, so cut off, so alone, only you're not. See, in all our searching, the only thing we've found that makes the emptiness bearable, is each other. - Contact (1997)
One thing I love about Minbari is that "because I say so" is never dismissed out of hand, they evaluate who you are right down to your soul before they determine if listening to what you say is required of who you are. If you are genuine, determined, confident, and capable, they will follow.
I always thought in the B5 universe humanity's greatest asset, wasn't strength, or power. But our ability to go forth and form communities while encompassing other races.
rizon72 that's true but one thing is we would never forget that the Minbari were gonna wipe us out completely. one thing I hated was how they just let it go nah bro.
Humans greatest strength in the B5 universe was perseverence and curage. In the Earth Minbari war Humans were outmatched so badly in space and on the ground it was ridiculus. They literally only destroyed one enemy ship in proper combat. Still they made the Minbari fight as Londo himself said "for every inch of space". Fighting against certain doom literally to the last man just out of principle. Thats why Humans became one of the most powerful younger races in a relatively short time.
Which is really hilarious when you consider the fractious politics that we have in the real world. We are actually *not at all* good at forming mixed communities or dealing with differences. Just the opposite, our entire society runs on Us vs. Them.
Perhaps Humans were meant to be the middle ground between the philosophies of the Shadows and the Vorlons. We weren't Narn or the Centauri, who both were violent, decadent and completely ruled by their past sins, grudges, and tragedies. Nor were we the Minbari, who structured themselves into a nearly completely static (and very powerful because of that) society. We acknowledged the differences of people, and strove to use every difference to unite into a stronger and more complete whole.
Ironically enough, humans managed to both adhere and subvert Vorlons and Shadows beliefs. They united with other races to fight against common enemy, making great strides in both social structures (Minbari federation's grey council was completly re-organized after centuries of strife between religous and warrior caste, Narns finally started to break their cycle of bitter vengeance thanks to G'kar spiritual example and Earth alliance learned dangers of their own short comins) and technology. However they also learned respect, cooperation and trust by working together willing to lay their lives down for each other and learn from each other. Instellar Alliance then carried on this work, eventually even managed to integrate Centauri, who were very on their way to destruction (though we only see this trough novels). Yet after the war was over, they didn't (mostly) start to fight amongs each other as Shadows would've wanted to do, or become blindly obedient to hierachy as Vorlons expected them do. Maybe Shadows and Vorlons weren't complete failures as teachers after all, they just succeeded in ways they didn't think was possible.
Humans in the B5 universe are the only race we know of that were directly influenced by both the Vorlons and Shadows. They were the only race to build communities of different species and beliefs. They sought the peace of organized society and the chaos of freedom. The Humans were the embodiment of dichotomy.
Humans managed to "defeat" the more powerful Minbari. Basically humans in B5 fulfill the same role they do in Star Trek. The adaptable and flexible race that can prevail against great odds.
@@robwalsh9843 The reason the Mimbari stopped the war against Earth was because Jeffrey Sinclair made the sacrifice to go back 1,000 and became Valen a great Mimbari hero, so it was more luck than simple "defeat" that he wasn't killed before the Mimbari could find out he had Valen's soul and that also showed "flexibility" on the part of the Mimbari that they actual withdraw because of that connection between the species
2:43 their only weakness is that they do not recognize their own greatness.(they want to be accepted by the herd, they want to be "normal" and so they give away their greatness)
Humans fight, struggle, and keep rising up to fight impossible odds. They do not seek conformity, but rather find strength in their differences and passions. Because of that they become stronger and better over their fraught evolution. We have much to learn from them.. Wait….wait just a minute…isn’t that the same philosophy employed by the Shadows?
Such an awesome show, I will never forget its story or its great writing. G'kar and Londo just chewed up the scenes. Still worth watching to see Sci-fi done right.
Humans are both great and tragic, we have the ability to turn a hand to such great wonders like music, art, buildings and on the other hand we can create weapons that can destroy a hole city and its people in a blink of an eye. We are able to wage war and kill each other by the million in the most brutal and barbaric way yet risk our life's to save a drowning kitten. It is in mankind's own hands to become better than what we are, all we have to do is choose to do so.
God knows us more then our self, the illusion of free will, the question why we're the only one with the ability to rationally think?why the animal doesn't have it?. We bound by this material plane by our material body..its a catch, a twist..so that we only think that we only consist of flesh and bone without anything else but the other side we do know un-quantifiable concept such as love, hate, sadness..ermmm...its a long story.. i don;t know if my choosing of word can express my understanding of those thing..
We literally clawed our way out of being prey animals to being the domiant species of the planet, where there is difficulty we adapt, where there is a challenge we assimilate it. We are special because we got here and can internet.
Not to mention.... (we) build communities. That trait alone made the Minbari realized we are the most dangerous species they've had encountered with the exception of the Older Races.
I like how Babylon 5 handles humans. Every other sci-fi portrays us as weak and pathetic generalists whose best trait is that they come in second for everything instead of first for one thing
You can say what ever you want the thing that makes Human's so special is that we are human and as a group we have a need to feel special. Nothing more and nothing less.
"They carry within them the capacity to walk among the stars like giants." Interesting word choice, looking back. That is one of the references to the first ones, and we know that eventually humans (along with Minbari) will evolve into pure energy beings not unlike the Vorlons. The Narns and Centauri survive, they continue, but they do not evolve past their physical forms. Was Delenn effectively predicting the Humans becoming like the First Ones here?
+exmuslim20 There is more to humanity than just Survival of the fittest. It doesn't explain why total strangers would go out of someone's way to save anothers life, or give strangers food, nor does it explain why humans would go out of their way to save the lives of animals. Its a basic question. "Are we better than what our instincts allow us to be." I would say yes.
3 years late but here goes... we humans have so much baggage right now that it seem we don't care at all and seem savage... if we could get rid of most of the baggage dragging us down you would see more humans helping animals and even build WITH nature instead of against it..it's very much like the survival of the fittest just in a more advanced and refined form...
Yes, we do know better, but not everyone want's to "fuck it all up", you only have to look at those who think they are more then everyone else, delusions of grandeur, their thought of I am a God, when they are nothing of the sort. Dictatorship does not make someone better than anyone else, it makes them weak and insecure, they just hide behind it and get everyone else to do the work they will not ! The biggest problem is that you are always going to get those few that think they know better than everyone else, when they don't, they won't listen to reason and relevant arguments that contradict their ideals. Unless every single person on this planet makes the choice to act as one, we will never have a life of true meaning and peace.
Delenn's characterization of the human ability to thrive via chaos is almost...Shadow-like in its analysis and explains why the species became so split between all sides of the argument including finding a separate path beyond the two "protector" races that the Minbari would never see or understand alone.
+MrNotadream their problem is like ours. instead of control immagration, giving the new people time to blend into the society, the doors have been left open.
As a UK citizen, I'm not seeing how diversity is a detriment. That aside, in terms of biology, diversity is key to the survival of life. A species that hones itself towards a narrow line of evolution may be better suited to its place, but it will be brittle. Too drastic a change and it will break. The greater the diversity present, the more chance there is of a person bearing antibodies for a disease, or someone having the genetic inclination to be able to digest a new food source. It's like metallurgy. Pure iron is a terrible material because it forms perfect atomic lattices that make it tough, but very brittle. To make it into modern steel, we dope it with a variety of trace elements to improve its characteristics, supplement its strength. By disrupting that perfect, orderly lattice, we make it stronger than it ever could be when pure.
The UK has a pretty controlled immigration as it is, though. We can funnel them across a handful of borders that all have stringent checks. Adding any more measures will only slow down the trade routes we rely on for commerce.
If you think there were types of humans during this time, the White who sided with good, the Black who sided with the Shadows, and the Grey, wanders who joined the Anla'Shok, the Rangers.
considering it was delenn's vote that started the war, took her long enough to realise whatever it is in humans that made them continue to fight was something beyond primitive.
oh yeah so genocide was ok because of one incident. man Straczynski, sure did a sloppy backplot with gimmicks to explain the cause of the war. you really think an intelligent species that has had experience with hundreds of other intelligent species, would think it's a good idea to open their gunports when making 1st contact and assume that other cultures understand that it's a great honor in minbari culture? Really? The whole back story about how the war started was dum. Plus, jow is it possible that the minbari, with technologies thousands of years ahead of earth would not see that their sensor beam would paralyze the earth ships propulsion. extremely dum writing by Straczynski on this part. this scene sukked.
Minbari tradition said it was a sign of respect to have their gun ports open. The commander of the human vessel panicked and open fire. Delenn made the choice as the deciding vote under massive duress and grief and as she held the body of her mentor. She even admits later that she made the decision in error and let emotion overcome her judgement. She also says her mentor never would have wanted the war either.
Also Delenns mentor ordered the guns closed when he found out. It was literally all bad circumstances that lead to the war. That's the whole point. It was an extremely weak reason to initiate a purge of a species for mistakes made on both sides. Hence the building of Babylon 5. It's the perfect reason to start the series. It's not about the war. It's about what came after.
Humans are special because of what we do and have done. To this date, so far as we know, we are the only intelligent life in the universe. Are there other smart creatures even on our own planet, yes. Again so far as we know, we are the only beings to build cities and invent complex tools. We are the only beings to have venture into space and come home again. I would say that makes us pretty damn special.
Every civilization in our universe has self aggrandizing speeches in their science fiction that they put in the mouths of aliens that look nearly identical to them. But of all the civilizations, we alone were correct in those speeches, and that makes us special.
This is a tired trope, but there is a wrinkle about the cultures depicted that makes it work: the relative age of species. Humanity is a young race; without (obvious) uplift we came a long way, very fast. Another culture may have taken million of years between inventing writing and space-flight, we did it much faster. How much more can we do, given billions of years?
Because humans are space orks. To them, combat and war is as natural as breathing and eating. Each and every one of their nations maintains their own military and set of combat doctrines perfected over thousands of years of in-fighting on their planet. To wage war upon them is a fool's errand, for once pressed, there is no off switch to that. UNFORTUNATELY, that can also be said of the Minbari too, and they were better at war!
When watching these earlier scenes (especially the grey council), these these people were so ignorant to their own lineage That one human intermixed with them and every Mimbari for nearly a thousand years is actually part human themselves
You do not know that, for all you know we might get out there and find that we were the only species not to destroy themselves when they discovered atomic theory.
in fact, the Interstellar Alliance was created by the Minbari (more precisely, it was the idea and authority of Delenn) and the capital was on Minbar (Tzanor). The Earth Union became only a "province" of the Alliance, in the same way as other states of other races (Narn, Drazi, Centauri, Brakiri etc...). which later led to a situation where, after 500 years, the Earth became fascist again and was bombarded by its own colonies, which remained committed to the ideals and values of the Alliance.
Let me tell you something about Hew-mons, Nephew. They're a wonderful, friendly people, as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working. But take away their creature comforts, deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers, put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time and those same friendly, intelligent, wonderful people... will become as nasty and as violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon. You don't believe me? Look at those faces. Look in their eyes
I suppose a conference room where everyone must stand would encourage shorter meetings and the lack of a table would require people prepare and memorize their presentations.
Quark Quote. : Let me tell you something about Hew-mons, Nephew. They're a wonderful, friendly people, as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working. But take away their creature comforts, deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers, put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time and those same friendly, intelligent, wonderful people... will become as nasty and as violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon
When i look at sci fis like this it makes me wounder what will humanity give back to the galaxy when we reach beyond are star? What would make us speical?
This seemed a little too forced as an explanation as to why humans were special. The Best characteristics of humanity was mentioned later in the series. It talked about humans building communities. Which could be very unique to our species. We try and build alliances with alien races and unite our power which could be very threatening to others. Even in the series the fact that the only organization is the league of non aligned worlds before the interstellar alliance . and Even then the league was barely effective
If humans really met a different species (aliens not women) they would view us as savages or monsters.. just the way we treat cows and chickens and pigs would be grounds for a monster title
"star people rights", hm? Given what I imagine I know, we may be at the mercy of someone elses decree of "starpeople rights", so I am all for renaming "human rights" to "sentient rights", just as a humble, first step.
What we're calling a human. Human means nothing human IS a WORD used for an excuse for an animal that THINK it's disgraceful behavior towards the creator
The Minbari were very caught up in prophecy. Of course, eventually we learn that this particular prophecy was partially informed by time travel..... But i love this quote from Vir Cotto: "Prophecy is a guess that comes true. When it doesn't, it's a metaphor."
"Prophecy is a guess that comes true. When it doesn't, it's a metaphor.". A wise series. Great writers, great directors, great actors. People that strived to make their work both memorable and useful. And they did.
To know the future is to be trapped by it
Technically, that was Londo's subconscious mind in the visage of Vir.
Humans are the plot device of the universe. That's why they're so special.
Nah, we are just the writers, and we exercise poetic justice.
well said. the whole scene and theme of humans being so great and special is PATHETIC. It reflects the extreme insecurity, narcissism and massive closet inferiority complex of those that promote it and those that buy into it: it's really pathetic. From star Trek, to Stargate to Babylon 5, this one aspect was really lame. Most other aspects of Babylon 5 was really good, but not this.
@@repealsection230forbigtech4 Edgelord, stop being so angry. No one is going to watch a show that makes us the villains, are they? Think man, think!
@@repealsection230forbigtech4 fuck you we are the best!
@@repealsection230forbigtech4 You obviously didn't watch B5, I would hardly call the Humans great or good guys in the show. Most of Earth Gov was in league with the Shadows and then you have PsiCorp. Not exactly a line up of heroes.
RIP Mira Furlan, Setai Delenn Of The Grey Council
Hopefully she is now somewhere where no shadows fall.
She has gone forth to explore beyond the Rim. We live for the One, we die for the One. Entil'zha veni, in Valen's name.
In Valen’s name.
I did not know she died. Thank you for letting us know. :(
@@johnkyp18 she's together with Valen now
This women is one of the most badass actresses/characters in all of sci-fi television history. As a Trek fan, this show was good and she was toward the top of the reasons why
Is this Mira Furlan , the Croatian actress?
I don’t know
@@earthlingavian1132 It is Mira Furlan.
@@lordmarshall5239 I also love the portrayals of G'Kar, Londo Mollari, their story and character development throughout the show's run
Mira played a badass character in the Lost series as well. Pure human who took no BS and carried a rifle at all times!
Having seen the entire series, I find these earlier episodes fascinating when they invoke “In Valen’s name.” Their whole later civilization is entirely based upon an Earthling named Commander Sinclair. That is the answer to their question why humans are special.
Well technically they stopped the war because they pulled a single human aboard... and that single human just happened to be the man who would become Valen... and so had a soul that the Mimbari would see as Mimbari.
There is no real proof that any other human has "a Mimbari soul" Basically the human they randomly selected was taken, him being taken made him distrusted messed up his career which put in a position to be placed on B5 by Mimbari request. He then develops a close friendship with the Mimbari Ambassador who later takes the DNA of Sinclair from a 1000 years earlier to give her human characteristics. Sinclair becomes a Ranger, learns the Mimbari ways and Spirituality... uses the same device Dalenn Mimbari DNA to give himself Mimbari characteristics.
So Delann uses a device a that was Valen's to combine her DNA with that of the Human DNA in it. That DNA is of course Sinclair's but he won't put it in to the device for another 2 years linearly but 4 years in the past as well... but seems to use the same Device Delann does as he uses Delann's DNA to make him look more mimbari... but where did the device come from? It just is.... no one seems to actually build it. Unless the Device was given to the Great Machine after Delann used it and the machine made a new one loaded with her DNA. Either way it all becomes a temporal mess that flows well.
In the end though... It all seems to rely on one Mimbari selecting one human at Random but it can't be at Random because that Human becomes Valen and only becomes Valen because he is selected and is found to have a Mimbari soul because he is Valen which he only becomes because he is selected... It is a literal.. the Past cant exist with out the Present or future situation.
@@Kaziklu Pretty much agree with you. But one point, I forget the episode, it was the one where she had to appear before the Gray Council and justify her relationship with Sheridan. Anyway, it was discovered that Delann was linked ancestrally to Valen, aka, Sinclair. She was his great…etc great, granddaughter. That might have something to do with the connection she had to him and possibly why she chose that particular fighter to bring in and interrogate, some sort of mystical connection.
@@Kaziklu at some point in the series, Delen mentions that there are only 3 tr-iluminaries, as they are called. In later cannon, Cathereine Sakai gets stuck in the past, and she and Sinclair, now Valen, marry, leave Mimbar, and their decedents secretly returned, and with the help of the Rangers, return to Mimbar and rejoin society and spread their genome through the population.
I think what makes Human so special is that unlike many other species, the Vorlons AND the Shadows seemed to have had equal access to Humans over the centuries, where other species were either abandoned or wholly in one camp or the other. I believe humans had the kind of guidance that all species were supposed to have before Vorlon-Shadow relations broke down.
They represent Chaos and Order, Obedience and are Self Driven by personal desires. All wrapped up in a fleshy package.
@@viix3815 However, it gave most of the human species a... *weird* trait; Kirk/Tiberius syndrome. Earth-Alliance had to make a bloody list for alien races they COULDN'T/SHOULDN'T SHAG, either by a xeno-anthropologist giving a look at cultural/romantic rituals or some poor schmuck or twenty found out the hard way.
it's not that, that i see. i like to think it's like the Vulcan said at the Vulcan embassy, Humans are hard to classify, all the other races have an aspect we can see and understand, Humans on the other hand show all the aspects at different times and it make them not only hard to understand, but also to classify. This was not the exact quote, so i didn't use quotes. But that is how i see both our strength as well as our weakness. We as individuals have different experiences, emotions and thoughts, that can be both an asset as well as an issue at times
@@crazylarryjr i agree, i just thought maybe, part of why that' may be the case is mixed influences. But then again, we don't have any examples of shadow inflences deep in the human past, only vorlon, which kinds kills my theory.
@@iona2225 is that not just a reasonable thing to do when interacting with other cultures with biological differences? or are you saying it’s weird to fuck an alien? who wouldn’t wanna fuck a sexy alien…
"They can be a great people, Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason about all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you, my only son". The greatest amongst the Minbari were already partly human.
_"You will give the people of Earth an ideal to aspire to. They'll race behind you. They'll stumble. They'll fall. But in time, they'll join the light with you, Kal. In time, you will help them...accomplish wonders."_
Wtf?
@@lour7299 Simple, Delen is cmdr. Sinclair's descendent... as is every member of the grey council.
@@looseycanon but if they are all Sinclair descendant, how come they are surprised when the triluminary glow when it scan Delenn?
@@lour7299 The triluminary is, to the Minbari, an ancient religious artifact, given to them by the mysterious Valen, who was unknown to them but seemingly of them, who saved their species and the galaxy from annihilation by the shadows in the last war a thousand years ago. They have no idea that it is a device designed and built by the Vorlons, who with their technology understood and worked with the time loop of the figure Valen to their own ends, but who even they ultimately barely understood.
This scene makes me sad when I think of the later episode where elderly future Delenn shames the human journalists for their distortion of John's story. Her faith in humanity broken, although her own people aren't much better.
But it wouldn't have been possible without Jeffrey Sinclair going back a 1,000 years to become Valen the great Mimbari hero and winning the first Shadow War and then stopping the Earth/Mibari War because they recognized Valen's soul in him
@@ArgonTheAware True
Her faith in EARTH is broken. The whole point of that episode is that the humans of Earth are irrevocably damaged, unable to move forward in to the destiny she and Sheridan prepared for them, but that's no longer the sum total of humanity.
Alien: You're an interesting species. An interesting mix. You're capable of such beautiful dreams, and such horrible nightmares. You feel so lost, so cut off, so alone, only you're not. See, in all our searching, the only thing we've found that makes the emptiness bearable, is each other. - Contact (1997)
*Gag! Cough! Sputter!* Gawd, stop!
I waited through that whole movie to see the aliens and it was her gawd-damned father!
I really liked how Delen and the aliens from that movie don't look down their noses at our race.
One thing I love about Minbari is that "because I say so" is never dismissed out of hand, they evaluate who you are right down to your soul before they determine if listening to what you say is required of who you are. If you are genuine, determined, confident, and capable, they will follow.
I always thought in the B5 universe humanity's greatest asset, wasn't strength, or power. But our ability to go forth and form communities while encompassing other races.
rizon72 that's true but one thing is we would never forget that the Minbari were gonna wipe us out completely. one thing I hated was how they just let it go nah bro.
Humans greatest strength in the B5 universe was perseverence and curage. In the Earth Minbari war Humans were outmatched so badly in space and on the ground it was ridiculus. They literally only destroyed one enemy ship in proper combat.
Still they made the Minbari fight as Londo himself said "for every inch of space". Fighting against certain doom literally to the last man just out of principle. Thats why Humans became one of the most powerful younger races in a relatively short time.
So pretty much the same as in star trek.
There's a wonderful bit in another episode where Delenn makes that very argument.
Which is really hilarious when you consider the fractious politics that we have in the real world. We are actually *not at all* good at forming mixed communities or dealing with differences. Just the opposite, our entire society runs on Us vs. Them.
Perhaps Humans were meant to be the middle ground between the philosophies of the Shadows and the Vorlons. We weren't Narn or the Centauri, who both were violent, decadent and completely ruled by their past sins, grudges, and tragedies. Nor were we the Minbari, who structured themselves into a nearly completely static (and very powerful because of that) society.
We acknowledged the differences of people, and strove to use every difference to unite into a stronger and more complete whole.
Ironically enough, humans managed to both adhere and subvert Vorlons and Shadows beliefs. They united with other races to fight against common enemy, making great strides in both social structures (Minbari federation's grey council was completly re-organized after centuries of strife between religous and warrior caste, Narns finally started to break their cycle of bitter vengeance thanks to G'kar spiritual example and Earth alliance learned dangers of their own short comins) and technology. However they also learned respect, cooperation and trust by working together willing to lay their lives down for each other and learn from each other. Instellar Alliance then carried on this work, eventually even managed to integrate Centauri, who were very on their way to destruction (though we only see this trough novels).
Yet after the war was over, they didn't (mostly) start to fight amongs each other as Shadows would've wanted to do, or become blindly obedient to hierachy as Vorlons expected them do. Maybe Shadows and Vorlons weren't complete failures as teachers after all, they just succeeded in ways they didn't think was possible.
Humans in the B5 universe are the only race we know of that were directly influenced by both the Vorlons and Shadows. They were the only race to build communities of different species and beliefs. They sought the peace of organized society and the chaos of freedom. The Humans were the embodiment of dichotomy.
@@wyominghomesteader5063 100% Correct
Humans managed to "defeat" the more powerful Minbari. Basically humans in B5 fulfill the same role they do in Star Trek. The adaptable and flexible race that can prevail against great odds.
@@robwalsh9843 The reason the Mimbari stopped the war against Earth was because Jeffrey Sinclair made the sacrifice to go back 1,000 and became Valen a great Mimbari hero, so it was more luck than simple "defeat" that he wasn't killed before the Mimbari could find out he had Valen's soul and that also showed "flexibility" on the part of the Mimbari that they actual withdraw because of that connection between the species
Mira, my dear , you were a wonderfull human being and a great actress ❤
Good speech, Delenn.
Jeez, why don't you just go ahead and marry these humans if you like them so much?
Neil Sanghvi and Delenn did
she also regularly signs their damned yearbooks too !!!
"Hold my Sha'chai..."
Delen married Sheridan in the end.
Plot Twist!
2:43 their only weakness is that they do not recognize their own greatness.(they want to be accepted by the herd, they want to be "normal" and so they give away their greatness)
Humans fight, struggle, and keep rising up to fight impossible odds. They do not seek conformity, but rather find strength in their differences and passions. Because of that they become stronger and better over their fraught evolution. We have much to learn from them..
Wait….wait just a minute…isn’t that the same philosophy employed by the Shadows?
Amazing thoughts and Ideas , To uplift people instead putting people down, To appreciate greatness and not be envious
Ahh, the neoliberal envy myth... 🤡🤡🤡
And then, a Shadow appears...
i am so hoping the script writer gets a big budget Gig. brilliance is so rare.
I've heard straczynski has put in a bid to be the new dr who showrunner so I guess that's important
We humans are unpredictable, and dangerously so. We are also adaptable.
i learned a lot from this series thank you. do know what be don know.
Such an awesome show, I will never forget its story or its great writing. G'kar and Londo just chewed up the scenes. Still worth watching to see Sci-fi done right.
Pray that B5 is never remade into the woke trash of today - 🙏 leave this beauty for what it is, for the love Mr K.
„They do not surrender“
France:😐
Blessed peace be upon her
Loved how this is how she described the First Ones also.
Humans are both great and tragic, we have the ability to turn a hand to such great wonders like music, art, buildings and on the other hand we can create weapons that can destroy a hole city and its people in a blink of an eye.
We are able to wage war and kill each other by the million in the most brutal and barbaric way yet risk our life's to save a drowning kitten.
It is in mankind's own hands to become better than what we are, all we have to do is choose to do so.
The problem is, altruism is often more personally expensive than doing selfishness.
In our defense, the vast majority of humans spend the vast majority of their time on building rather than destruction.
*****
Semantically, perhaps.
God knows us more then our self, the illusion of free will, the question why we're the only one with the ability to rationally think?why the animal doesn't have it?. We bound by this material plane by our material body..its a catch, a twist..so that we only think that we only consist of flesh and bone without anything else but the other side we do know un-quantifiable concept such as love, hate, sadness..ermmm...its a long story.. i don;t know if my choosing of word can express my understanding of those thing..
We literally clawed our way out of being prey animals to being the domiant species of the planet, where there is difficulty we adapt, where there is a challenge we assimilate it. We are special because we got here and can internet.
Not to mention.... (we) build communities. That trait alone made the Minbari realized we are the most dangerous species they've had encountered with the exception of the Older Races.
I like how Babylon 5 handles humans. Every other sci-fi portrays us as weak and pathetic generalists whose best trait is that they come in second for everything instead of first for one thing
Grey Council member: Yes, but... what is Truth? And what is God?
puuuuuuuh... *exhale* Truth is a river, and god is the mouth of the river.
put your face in the book
You can say what ever you want the thing that makes Human's so special is that we are human and as a group we have a need to feel special. Nothing more and nothing less.
Valen knows why the humans are so important
"They carry within them the capacity to walk among the stars like giants." Interesting word choice, looking back. That is one of the references to the first ones, and we know that eventually humans (along with Minbari) will evolve into pure energy beings not unlike the Vorlons. The Narns and Centauri survive, they continue, but they do not evolve past their physical forms. Was Delenn effectively predicting the Humans becoming like the First Ones here?
The primary conceit of Sci-fi. The idea that humans are so very special.
Nicely dove tails with Londo Mollari's speech about humans.
Feelings are the core of the human experience - Pitman(in the tv series 3rd rock from the sun,season 1,episode 1)
Humans are special because the script was written on Earth.
+exmuslim20 There is more to humanity than just Survival of the fittest. It doesn't explain why total strangers would go out of someone's way to save anothers life, or give strangers food, nor does it explain why humans would go out of their way to save the lives of animals. Its a basic question. "Are we better than what our instincts allow us to be." I would say yes.
3 years late but here goes... we humans have so much baggage right now that it seem we don't care at all and seem savage... if we could get rid of most of the baggage dragging us down you would see more humans helping animals and even build WITH nature instead of against it..it's very much like the survival of the fittest just in a more advanced and refined form...
To be sapient is to rise above simple instincts, they say
That we know better but that doesn't deter us from f*cking it all up.
Yes, we do know better, but not everyone want's to "fuck it all up", you only have to look at those who think they are more then everyone else, delusions of grandeur, their thought of I am a God, when they are nothing of the sort. Dictatorship does not make someone better than anyone else, it makes them weak and insecure, they just hide behind it and get everyone else to do the work they will not !
The biggest problem is that you are always going to get those few that think they know better than everyone else, when they don't, they won't listen to reason and relevant arguments that contradict their ideals. Unless every single person on this planet makes the choice to act as one, we will never have a life of true meaning and peace.
3 Drakh disliked.
Delenn's characterization of the human ability to thrive via chaos is almost...Shadow-like in its analysis and explains why the species became so split between all sides of the argument including finding a separate path beyond the two "protector" races that the Minbari would never see or understand alone.
like Mr spock said. infinite strength through infinite diversity.
+MrNotadream their problem is like ours. instead of control immagration, giving the new people time to blend into the society, the doors have been left open.
As a UK citizen, I'm not seeing how diversity is a detriment.
That aside, in terms of biology, diversity is key to the survival of life. A species that hones itself towards a narrow line of evolution may be better suited to its place, but it will be brittle. Too drastic a change and it will break. The greater the diversity present, the more chance there is of a person bearing antibodies for a disease, or someone having the genetic inclination to be able to digest a new food source.
It's like metallurgy. Pure iron is a terrible material because it forms perfect atomic lattices that make it tough, but very brittle. To make it into modern steel, we dope it with a variety of trace elements to improve its characteristics, supplement its strength. By disrupting that perfect, orderly lattice, we make it stronger than it ever could be when pure.
Avensis Astari it's not a detriment. But it should be done slowly to give the new arrivals time to assimilate.
The UK has a pretty controlled immigration as it is, though. We can funnel them across a handful of borders that all have stringent checks. Adding any more measures will only slow down the trade routes we rely on for commerce.
Avensis Astari there's a big difference between slowing down immagration and the flow of material commerce.
The only thing special about humanity is that we were created by God and He loves us.
If you think there were types of humans during this time, the White who sided with good, the Black who sided with the Shadows, and the Grey, wanders who joined the Anla'Shok, the Rangers.
considering it was delenn's vote that started the war, took her long enough to realise whatever it is in humans that made them continue to fight was something beyond primitive.
oh yeah so genocide was ok because of one incident. man Straczynski, sure did a sloppy backplot with gimmicks to explain the cause of the war. you really think an intelligent species that has had experience with hundreds of other intelligent species, would think it's a good idea to open their gunports when making 1st contact and assume that other cultures understand that it's a great honor in minbari culture? Really? The whole back story about how the war started was dum. Plus, jow is it possible that the minbari, with technologies thousands of years ahead of earth would not see that their sensor beam would paralyze the earth ships propulsion. extremely dum writing by Straczynski on this part. this scene sukked.
Minbari tradition said it was a sign of respect to have their gun ports open. The commander of the human vessel panicked and open fire. Delenn made the choice as the deciding vote under massive duress and grief and as she held the body of her mentor. She even admits later that she made the decision in error and let emotion overcome her judgement. She also says her mentor never would have wanted the war either.
Also Delenns mentor ordered the guns closed when he found out. It was literally all bad circumstances that lead to the war. That's the whole point. It was an extremely weak reason to initiate a purge of a species for mistakes made on both sides. Hence the building of Babylon 5. It's the perfect reason to start the series. It's not about the war. It's about what came after.
@@Ionsniper and you fell for that weak tea back story?
@@repealsection230forbigtech4 It was also about cultural differences and misunderstandings. Sometimes it can end badly.
Humans are special because of what we do and have done. To this date, so far as we know, we are the only intelligent life in the universe. Are there other smart creatures even on our own planet, yes. Again so far as we know, we are the only beings to build cities and invent complex tools. We are the only beings to have venture into space and come home again. I would say that makes us pretty damn special.
Every civilization in our universe has self aggrandizing speeches in their science fiction that they put in the mouths of aliens that look nearly identical to them. But of all the civilizations, we alone were correct in those speeches, and that makes us special.
This is a tired trope, but there is a wrinkle about the cultures depicted that makes it work: the relative age of species.
Humanity is a young race; without (obvious) uplift we came a long way, very fast.
Another culture may have taken million of years between inventing writing and space-flight, we did it much faster.
How much more can we do, given billions of years?
Aw shucks. She made me feel special.
good speech delenn
Because humans are space orks. To them, combat and war is as natural as breathing and eating. Each and every one of their nations maintains their own military and set of combat doctrines perfected over thousands of years of in-fighting on their planet. To wage war upon them is a fool's errand, for once pressed, there is no off switch to that.
UNFORTUNATELY, that can also be said of the Minbari too, and they were better at war!
Just imagine their shock when Delenn marries & has a baby with a human :3
Just imagine their shock if they ever knew Valen was a human.
Just imagine their shock if they ever knew Valen was a human.
When watching these earlier scenes (especially the grey council), these these people were so ignorant to their own lineage That one human intermixed with them and every Mimbari for nearly a thousand years is actually part human themselves
What makes humans so special? One of the few species in the universe that destroyed their planet.
You do not know that, for all you know we might get out there and find that we were the only species not to destroy themselves when they discovered atomic theory.
We are the ones who write the stories.
A later, yet earlier letter from Valen would help confirm this calling.
Reminds me of the talk Admiral Forest and Ambassador Soval had in "Enterprise".
second from the left started to bow prematurely
The Humans were destined to build great things, like the Interstellar Alliance.
in fact, the Interstellar Alliance was created by the Minbari (more precisely, it was the idea and authority of Delenn) and the capital was on Minbar (Tzanor). The Earth Union became only a "province" of the Alliance, in the same way as other states of other races (Narn, Drazi, Centauri, Brakiri etc...). which later led to a situation where, after 500 years, the Earth became fascist again and was bombarded by its own colonies, which remained committed to the ideals and values of the Alliance.
The whole Minbari culture was a paradox !
1:26 someone on the left was a little too eager to bow
Let me tell you something about Hew-mons, Nephew.
They're a wonderful,
friendly people,
as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working.
But take away their creature comforts,
deprive them of food,
sleep,
sonic showers,
put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time and those same friendly,
intelligent,
wonderful people...
will become as nasty and as violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon.
You don't believe me?
Look at those faces.
Look in their eyes
Danger! Human! Do Not Touch!
We humans are GREAT!
I suppose a conference room where everyone must stand would encourage shorter meetings and the lack of a table would require people prepare and memorize their presentations.
This was a pretty good show for it’s time. Anyone know if u can still find it in circulation?
right under the video on the recommendations... the first option is to buy it here on youtube.
Two months late but if you're still looking this entire show is on HBO max
Thumbs. That's what makes us special. There are critters smarter, but they can't make shit, because they have no thumbs
Quark Quote. : Let me tell you something about Hew-mons, Nephew. They're a wonderful, friendly people, as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working.
But take away their creature comforts, deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers, put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time and those same friendly, intelligent, wonderful people... will become as nasty and as violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon
When i look at sci fis like this it makes me wounder what will humanity give back to the galaxy when we reach beyond are star? What would make us speical?
Won't know till we get out there.
1:18 - and yet you are all standing IN the light...
Yes, we are special.
I hate how shows have to impress upon us how wonderful humans are and how perfect our imperfections make us.
Humans form communities.
Sinclair is valin. Blew my mind back then.
Because a human is writing the story.
We have opposable thumbs...
This show needs to be on hbo max
This seemed a little too forced as an explanation as to why humans were special. The Best characteristics of humanity was mentioned later in the series. It talked about humans building communities. Which could be very unique to our species. We try and build alliances with alien races and unite our power which could be very threatening to others. Even in the series the fact that the only organization is the league of non aligned worlds before the interstellar alliance . and Even then the league was barely effective
It can be explained in universe as, this is what she thinks at this time. Then as things change, so does her thinking.
A great show.
Humans have plot armour
We are a rather peculiar lot.
God i miss Mira 😢
Did she just give Mr. Morden's pitch for the Shadows?
If humans really met a different species (aliens not women) they would view us as savages or monsters.. just the way we treat cows and chickens and pigs would be grounds for a monster title
Não tem versões dubladas em portugues?
Reminds me of the poem IF.
Truth
"star people rights", hm?
Given what I imagine I know, we may be at the mercy of someone elses decree of "starpeople rights", so I am all for renaming "human rights" to "sentient rights", just as a humble, first step.
B5 fragments on muslim channel? I thought I`ve seen everything lol
If the Minbari met the Imperium of Man in warhammer 40k they may change their minds. xD
What we're calling a human. Human means nothing human IS a WORD used for an excuse for an animal that THINK it's disgraceful behavior towards the creator
Humans wrote this show hence the special treatment HAHA
exactly.
2:09 for the moment
Hurt them -- they only come back stronger.... it sounds almost like shadows would say...
There is more truth to her statement than you might think
Simple answer, the script writers are human(?)😆😆
Well that is easy to answer! Humans wrote the script.
Is no dark or light. Is no good or bad. Is just nature.
If we ever needed help, it is coming. :(
The Grey Council is such a wonderful story unit......