Lynyrd Skynyrd's Hell House Dock- What Remains Of It 07-18-2024
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- Опубликовано: 2 фев 2025
- Today I went boating and fishing on Black Creek and into Peter's Creek where the land for Lynyrd Skynyrd's Hell House cabin was once located next to Peter's Creek. The old dock is still there and in this video you can see fans have stripped off all of the new addition upper deck boards which Ronnie and Skynyrd never saw nor touched. Gary Rossington did make a trip here before he died and was photographed standing on this dock on the new addition built over the original dock. The original dock and original deck boards are underneath the newer treated lumber framing laying on top of original dock underneath constructed from wood discarded by SeaBoard Coastline railroad, now CSX, when they rebuilt the train trestle bridge over Peter's Creek back in early 1970's. The land owner where the cabin once stood took some of that discarded creosote soaked wood from the train bridge to construct the original Hell House dock on which Ronnie Van Zant himself stood and fished and band members could have actually sat on this dock and those original deck boards seen here to write songs for their first two albums Pronounced and Second Helping were all written right here at this location now only accessibly by water because the land is now locked behind an HOA gate and only land owners can access driving up to it. But it can still be viewed up close in a boat. The new land owner installed video cameras and no trespassing signs so I floated up to within inches of the dock and shot this quick video without touching it, nor taking any of the wood. But seen here in this video is documentation of what is left after over 50 years since Skynyrd wrote their famous songs here and Ronnie Van Zant himself fished from this very dock while thinking about writing his songs. Songs like Tuesday's Gone, Simple Man, Things Goin' On, FreeBird, Sweet Home Alabama, Don't Ask Me No Questions, I Need You, Ballad Of Curtis Loew, Swamp Music, Needle & The Spoon, and we now know that Leon's song Woman Of Mine was also written here at Hell House because a cassette tape of a songwriting session from inside Hell House has surfaced with that song on it being written right here at Hell House. Lots of history here! Lots of great music too!
Wow. Thanks for sharing. I just stare at that framing and think about what that wood heard so many years ago. That’s the place where they wrote so many songs and honed their skills. Amazing!
That’s great. I went out there via kayak a few months ago and got a chunk of the underlying creosote wood and I’ve carved myself two guitar pics from it. I would like to connect with you next time I’m around Jacksonville Cagey Or wherever you are. I’m located in Saint Cloud
Ronnie could see the concrete slowly creepin what a shame what’s happened to our State
Cagey,...thanx for sharing.....i would rather be on the boat at Hell House than on a Holland America cruise ship....dave.
Why would they remove that??? That is precious history and a iconic site to thrill fans forever.
Because a home owner wants to build his house in the same spot as the hell house cabin and wants to build his new boat dock in that same space. Past history no longer matters there. We have lost that location.
@@Cagey-1so sad that people don’t respect what was there before. I’m sad for the Skynyrd band and us fans 😢
There should be a plaque or something.
There was one. The HOA had it removed because they did not want Skynyrd fans to show up there at all and they have a locked gate only home owners can access. Skynyrd fans are barred from the property today. If you would like to see the plaque, simply do a google search on Skynyrd hell house and it should come right up for you.
@@Cagey-1 If that's the case, they're ignorant. They could charge access to it (a small fee) with maybe part of the fee going to something good for Jacksonville (say the historical society as an example). That of course would make sense, so why would they do it?
@@googleusergp Apparently its against HOA rules. And charging a fee would make it a business located on land zoned for residential use only. It would involve taxes as well unless specifically said to be a voluntary donation, but still run into legal issues. The HOA really wants no Skynyrd fans inside their locked gate residential community at all. The HOA and land owner have removed the historical plaque as well. And the land the cabin sat on will soon have a house built on it. The location is being buried and hidden and locked away for all time. Gone. Only by water is it accessible now and only to view and that's it.
@@Cagey-1 Sounds like the city of Jacksonville needed to step in and make that happen and did not. They enjoy the benefits of the band being from the area, but not enough to preserve their history.
@@Cagey-1 That's why I'd never live in an HOA. Unless you're paying my taxes and upkeep on my house and land, you're not telling me what to do. If I want to paint my house hot pink with a green racing stripe, that should be my right, not yours.
What is your opinion on Ron O'Brien's work on the various Skynyrd reissues and compilations? I was actually pleased with what was released. I'm just fearful that it's all going to dry up with nobody buying physical media.
I was very supportive of the work Ron O'Brien was accomplishing for the band. His heart was in the right place. Ron dug through archives and warehouses and dug up the last of the recordings in the vaults so to speak. Ron O'Brien deserves credit for finding and releasing some very rare recordings, even unknown recordings like what became the song "Jacksonville Kid" that no one in the band knew about, or even at MCA Records. It was by mere chance that one song was discovered and we have Ron O'Brien to thank for it.
I agree with the work Ron was trying to do. I tried to help him and was credited on one Skynyrd album for those efforts, but I should have been on a half dozen of them but was blackballed by Gary and Judy and Skynyrd organization.
Ron was also blackballed by the same people plus others like Ed King and Al Kooper. What Gary, Ed, and Al Kooper were angry with was not the albums Ron was putting together and releasing. They were upset with Ron over his words that he put together as historical stories of the band. Ed King, Gary Rossington, and Al Kooper all objected to the way Ron did his research and writings that were released along with his albums. And it is for this reason I believe they all ganged up against Ron and went to MCA Records with threats of lawsuits if it did not stop. And I think for this reason Ron O'Brien was fired from MCA Records and went back to his bee keeping business.
So this is how I see it retrospectively now. Ron is a good guy who did good things that others objected to each for their own reasons and it cost Ron his job.
But if it were not for Ron O'Brien and his persistent efforts at recovering lost recordings like the 1973 live radio performance, and the original Norman Vincent studios recordings of Markham and Sutton, the world may have never heard those. And that box set may have been what set Al Kooper off because Ron stuck it to Al Kooper on that one. Al Kooper back in November of 1974 when he sold his Sounds of the South Record label to MCA Records for a cool one million dollars, Al Kooper was supposed to hand over ALL of his Skynyrd recordings. He did not Al Kooper kept at least 15 fat track reel to reel tapes including that 1973 live radio performance from Memphis I think it was.
Ron O'Brien wanted it for the box set but Al Kooper wanted money for it, and he wanted money from MCA to pay him to mix it for the box set. MCA's position was they had already paid Al Kooper for it and he was holding out on them and trying to get them to pay him twice for something MCA already owned.
So Ron O'Brien did some digging and found the radio station still had a 2 track "line" copy of the mixed down version that went out live over the radio sitting in a closet in some hallway of the radio station which Ron O'Brien was able to recover and he used that for release on the box set which completely sidestepped Al Kooper and denied Al Kooper any money for what tape he retained in violation of the 1974 sale. I agree with Ron O'Brien on this one. He did the right thing in denying thief Al Kooper any more money for what he illegally held onto.
And I think this was behind why Al Kooper and others ganged up on Ron and made MCA Records fire him eventually forever stopping what he was doing. MCA has not done anything close to what Ron O'Brien had accomplished since.
And if Ed King, Gary Rossington, and Al Kooper were objecting to Ron's descriptions of band's history, then each of those jerks should have been HELPING Ron to do the best he could on those albums he put together. Not helping and whining about it after the fact was not the way to go about it. Ed and Gary and Al Kooper all failed the band and fans on that count.
The bottom line here is I supported Ron O'Brien and what he was doing back then. Shame it all ended the way it did but I point the finger at Gary, Ed, Al, and Judy for not helping Ron to make it right, and for being behind sabotaging the greatest era of Skynyrd music discovery and release ever all masterminded by Ron O'Brien.
And fans need to realize that MCA Records vaults are now basically emptied out because of it. But, back home in Jacksonville numerous recordings of the band have been discovered and should all be added to the body of work the band recorded and yet the powers that be in Skynyrd today have ZERO interest in any of the historically important recordings that have been discovered. With artificial intelligence, they can all be cleaned up and shared with fans so they can earn income from those recordings and the world can learn from them.
Some of the recordings include songwriting sessions of Allen Collins privately at home. Songwriting sessions from inside of Hell House. At least 4 full live band performances in Jacksonville, maybe as many as 6 full shows, I am not sure, but recorded I think between 1969 and 1972 predating any and all officially released live recordings of which Ron O'Brien holds the record for having released the 1973 Memphis live radio performance which to date is the oldest known live recording ever released on the band and today we have full live shows that predate that one and the powers that be in Skynyrd could not care less. Tom Wills local so called Skynyrd newsman could not care less to do stories on the recordings.
The band and fans are being let down. These recordings need official recognition and release. And added to the band's historical record and examined by musicians and scholars and researchers and authors the world over. But as long as we have people at the top of Skynyrd and at MCA Records who seem to not give a dam, then nothing will change.
Maybe Craig and Griff can do shows on the recordings and we can all help push for change and demand and petition them to do something with the recordings. It is insane such incredible recordings are largely ignored especially when the vaults are empty. It makes no sense to me at all that anyone would ignore such incredibly historical recordings. This must change. We all need to voice our opinions and make change happen if we can.
Something else that needs to be considered is that it is possible Ron O'Brien may also be holding out. Holding out because he was fired. We need to find out if he knows more or has knowledge of recordings he has not brought forward because of how he was badly treated by 4 people who went after him. The negativity is extremely counterproductive. And it is the band's legacy and musical history and fans that are missing out on it all.
There is a growing long list of incredible recordings that need sharing with the world. The people in control of Skynyrd today need to get with the program and make it happen. Hard to believe full shows of Ronnie Van Zant singing and Gary and Allen playing guitar is simply ignored and forgotten and buried today in 2024. This needs to change.
@@Cagey-1 Wow, that's some story...
So nobody has any intrest in preserving this site? Thats incredibly sad,if i had money id buy that property🤘🇺🇲
The guy who tried to save it died young and unexpectedly from heart attack. His widow only cared about the money and sold it as soon as he died. Now it is being developed into someone's house and new dock and the history wiped away.