How to Install a Return Air Vent - PlumbersStock.com
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
- How to Install a Return Air Vent - PlumbersStock.com
Links for Instructions and Supplies Below:
0:23 Overview -General information of How it pulls the air
0:31 Location of Return Air Induction -How it’s routed
0:44 Challenges -dynamics of how it pulls air from surroundings
1:18 How we’re going to solve the air supply issues and create more balance in the system
1:40 Choosing the best routing for the air
2:22 Thermo-pan to create duct for air-channel (Thermo-pan properties, “R” value/basic construction)
2:53 Reinforcing Thermo-pan to prevent vacuum pressure collapse of Thermo-pan duct
3:54 Installing Thermo-pan
5:20 Thermo-pan connectors to join Thermo-pan sheets
5:46 Using HardCast 550 Duct Sealant to seal Joints
6:06 Routing air channels between joists
6:37 Thermo-Pan Duct-work between joists
7:23 Venting TJI to using “Hole-Hawg” create air pathway between joists
8:06 Finishing instructions, what we did
Tools used for this job:
Porter Cable Nail Gun
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Hole-Hawg High Powered Right Angle Drill
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Milwaukee 49-56-9645 Hole Dozer Hole Saw 4"
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Milwaukee 49-56-9305 Big Hawg With Carbide Teeth Arbor
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Smart Point BTFP12233 Corded Strip Brad Nailer
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Thermo-Pan
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Return-air Grille
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Baseboard Return-air grilles
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Phillip shows us how to install a return vent using Thermo-Pan. This type of installation is particularly useful when installing a return vent in an older home and allows you to utilize the existing construction.
Transcript:
Today we're going to install a return air supply for this furnace. Return air comes in the bottom where the blower cavity is. This is a gas furnace, it heats air with the heating exchanger and it goes through the air conditioner coil and out through the supply duct. In order to pull the return air from parts of the house we need, we're going install ducts. It doesn't have to be as extensive as the supply ductwork, because it is not hot air going through. If you pull air from right by the furnace it's going to be noisy and the system is not going to balance well -it will pull more air from the room that it's in, rather than from other areas of the house. Behind the furnace, there is a filter that goes into a utility room; we're going to duct a channel for the air to flow through it and into the bottom of the furnace. We have the channel framed out and we're going to add some support. Where it comes through are pipes/electrical; on a return it's no problem, but for supply that's not allowed. We've framed through the bay behind the furnace that going to go up into the floor base where TJI's run parallel. We need to go through the next TJI to duct into the hallway upstairs. To do that we're going to use Thermo-pan, which is light cardboard inside metalized sheeting that has an R-3 insulation value; together with adhesives and staples, we're going to create the bay.
I'll use 2"x8" reinforcements to prevent vacuum pressure from collapsing the bay. This bay lets the pipes and electrical go through, but still supports the Thermo-pan. I'm going to use a staple-gun because it's faster, but you can use panning nails, small nails with wide heads to anchor the Thermo-pan. Use caution with a staple gun because it can punch right through. Next piece is going to angle in and then go up into the base. I have two gaps I'll need to fill. I'm going to pan off the inside of it first and then I'll do a cover for the outside. To do the cover we need something to attach to and a support in the middle, so we're going to use some 2"x4"s. We have Thermo-pan connectors, are going to slip this one on. This will give us a good seal without having to use duct-sealant. With the angle-joint we will have to use sealant to connect this. Now I'm going to use Hardcast 550 duct sealant on the joints in order to seal and to keep it together. Now our return-air is sealed up to this point here. We have to block this off a little bit on the inside so air doesn't escape, but it's all in this bay. This bay has been blocked, so what we need to do now is block this other one so that the air can travel through these vent holes and into this bay.
The air will travel down the bay along the hallway, where it will hit one return, and then jump bays and go into the one upstairs.
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This is a perfect example of how you should not do return air ducts. I hope the producers of this video learn to do things the right way in the future and improve their methods. Think about the return air static pressure when you're done- do those holes allow air to flow smoothly? It doesn't matter because you should not have supply or return air going through a structure wall or cavity unless it is in a proper duct. Proper ducts are sealed. Even if this was allowable to do like in the video, there was no proper air sealing. I advise anyone looking to do things right to look at national comfort institute. The people producing the video most likely had good intentions, and surely would be open to improvement. Best of luck!
acoustic4037. Atleast It serves as a wrong example. And the national comfort institue only serves contractors or students, the rest of us have to figure it out.
www.nachi.org/building-cavities-supply-return-ducts.htm
Says you can do it in certain situations. How important is it that the return air flow smoothly?
3 holes for whole house return? Seem like not enough.
I was just gonna say... there are so many errors of construction going on here, thse joists are super compromised, and the plumbing was horrendous... I will be forgetting everything I saw immediately
This is the way to do air returns to line more money In your pockets. Normally I see air returns covered by drywall to even line more money.
Ok, I'm not an HVAC certified person, but I'm like WTF??? Glad to see everyone else here is in agreement of what not to do
2009 IRC
Section M1601.1.1 Stud wall cavities and spaces between solid floor joists cannot be used as supply-air plenums.In humid climates, a cavity space used as a return-air pathway will pull humid air into the cavity space, possibly encouraging mold growth or the deterioration of building materials, sending that bad air right into the home for the family to breathe. .A cavity space used as a return-air pathway will pull pollutants into the building from unknown sources, it's also pulling a lot of air from the nasty, yucky crawl space below the floor. Nearly all building codes restrict the use of cavity spaces as supply ducts.
This above comment should be pinned on the top.
The most common way most hvac guys run "returns" to line their pockets. Yes pulls dust most fiberglass , great idea.
I thought that the whole comment was the code at first and couldn't believe that the word yucky was in the official code. 😂
I think the how to install a return air vent - plumberstock.com show was great I learned a lot.
TGI joists are designed to be drilled thru at certain areas, but NOT that close to bearing(rimboard). That one joist with all the holes for R.A. should have failed framing inspection.All the holes should have been 12 inches apart.
“Won’t screw up the structure at all” he says before drilling multiple 4” dia holes right next to each other through a TJI truss. Google: allowable holes trus joist TJI, to see what’s actually allowed by the manufacturer, Weyerhaeuser (They need to be 8” apart, if they’re even allowed for that exact size and series TJI truss, and assuming they’re located more than the minimum distance from the end support point. (see the spec sheet).
Massive holes cut in two adjoining floor joists. It's amazing how cavalierly plumbers and HVAC people like this guy will destroy structural elements to make their runs.
Right. But they don't have to worry because by the time the floor starts to cave, they're long gone... :-)
William Guenthner agreed.
William Guenthner we give you job security brotha
I'm a hvac guy and would never make such careless mistakes. This video should be deleted horrible advice nothing is done correctly. The biggest mistake is still having combustion air mix with the return which can introduce CO into the air stream.
He just covers those electrical wire big no no there not going in the proper direction
Engineered I-Beam Rules
You can never, ever, ever notch or bore through the top or bottom flange or chord.
You can drill 1-1/2 in. holes anywhere in the web. In fact, most have little perforated knockout holes that can be punched out with the swing of a hammer.
Drill large holes toward the center of I-beam joists, not toward the ends.
Leave at least 1/4 in. (or the amount specified by the manufacturer) of web between the edge of the hole and the flange.
Joist Boring Rules
Holes must be at least 2 in. from the top and bottom edges of a joist.
Maximum hole size is one-third of the joist depth.
Joist Notching Rules
The maximum depth of a notch at the end of a joist (where it rests on a wall or beam) can’t exceed one-quarter of the joist depth.
Maximum notch depth in the outer third of a joist is one-sixth of the joist depth.
Limit the length of notches to one-third of the joist depth.
No notching in the middle third of a joist.
This guy is definitely the boss' son in law.
Dont let a "plumber or service man" touch your ductwork, get a duct-,sheetmetal worker(tinknocker)
Great video BTW. Quality is excellent.
Thank you for the effort to make this helpful, informative, thorough video. However, I believe that the holes you drilled in the engineered floor joist are much too large. They weaken the joist and would never pass inspection in most jurisdictions.
awesome video we'll explained. Clean job. Thanks for passing on.
Joe Martinez do not do a job like this. It’s 2000000% incorrect
I'm a newbie at installing duct works and was planning to do a room in my basement. I see lots of comments here by others claiming he did things wrong but he's one of the few videos on RUclips that actually walks through a process. I appreciate his efforts. Can someone post a link to another video that does a walk through like this? Can i just use 4" or 6" aluminum ducts for an air return? Or does the duct need to be as wide as the area between floor joist? Room size isn't that large. It will be about a 12' by 10' space.
Everyone has to complain about everything.. they can't just shut their traps and be quiet
There is so many things wrong with this video I can even begin to talk about it.
Engineered joists completely ruined by plumbers! Never heard of that before!
I noticed you drilled multiple holes in joist is that ok? I guess question is can you do that ?
Thanks
Thank god for the dislike extension giving me the headsup of how insane this video is
I'm confused. Can you have electrical routed through the CAR?
No
Manual D and J says you can use bays as a return path as long as its bigger than required duct dimension. I dont know about holes. Why were they cut. Those holes will cause restriction of air flow. Is it ok to cut holes into joist. Does code vary
Is the return "cut" into the back of the furnace? From the looks of it, the return grill is just behind the furnace and not cut into it. And as long as the thermo pan is not used in humid climates, its a good product. But prefer metal panning.
I guess all of the sheet metal guys hate this installation? You really should really be complaining about the architect who obviously gave no thought for the location and design of the HVAC return air in his house design. Unfortunately, the installer has to weigh structural integrity versus proper air flow to the HVAC system and most installers won't care about structural integrity. Many years ago, Carrier gave a class on static pressure, and the instructor claimed the biggest problem in most HVAC systems is an undersized return air duct.
Video is great but the background music is annoying it makes it difficult to listen to your comments. thanks
Great video. However, Please wear safety glasses next time. Too many eye injury's in my office this past year.
after reading comments below, the home owner started to file a lawsuit against this contractor
Won't this cause mold to grow?
Excellent example of professional plumbers pretending to be HVAC technicians , not one whit of examining how much return air volume needed , nothing. Shoot from the hip it might work! What building code?
well im no expert, I was told Romex cable is not allowed to be in plenum spaces and drilling at the flange face of that joist with many holes turns it into swiss cheese and weakens that structural member.
I give you kudos for attempting to seal your work. But why bother? The air return will just be sucked in anywhere there wood joins another object or where it warps. So basically you just spent all your time make a system that pulls air from the basement that looks good instead of a system that actually aids in the air movement into a room. I have a system like this and you know what the air barely moves into a room, why because all the return won't hold pressure causing the least resisting air to be pulled into the main unit from whatever crack is closest. I've attempted to seal and seal and seal my returns but these types of returns are garbage.
Wrong you never modified floor joists or other obstructional from the house just one hole already ruined the integrity of the joist and you already have 5 or 7 holes bad idea
Holes are acceptable, but there rules to how big and where they can be.
Please do not do your return like this. it's a fucking mess after a 8-10 years of running. I'm redoing mine at home right now and it's not worth it trust me
Is there not a code in most if not all areas with governance of how far a heading unit can be from any structure or wall? (30"x30") ?
turn those joists into swiss cheese! yeah!
I don't think you're suppose to drill all those large holes in the joist like that. It will lose its structural strength and may cause the floor to cave in in that area.
7:16 actually it WILL SCREW UP THE STRUCTURE! I'm starting to wonder if this is a joke video. Please stop.
The CAR is under side for the furnace
I don’t want to live in this house never ever 😳😳😫😫
Hello ..I'm really stuck Ihope you can give me some insight. Problem: HVAC guy started got paid never came back. Biggest mistake I ever made . Now can't get no one to finish since its started . Main trunk supply is hung (8x16 reduced to 8x14) return holes are cut in floor above where the return duct needs mounted yet. So I have to get return to side of Horizontal furnace. I was going to pan floor joist cavity which is 14"1/2 X9" 1/2 1750 cfm out of furnace. Is that enough airflow for return? 3 Ton unit btw .. Thank you
Sam Gray 400 can per ton. Sounds like ur ok
I'm looking at this cause someone did this to my house I just bought .I need to fix it cause I'm getting basement odor coming thre the air duct to the upstairs . Its musty smell.
My heart skipped a beat when I saw those 8 large holes side by side in a single TJI. Maybe you can get away with removing that much material, but I've never seen it done before. I hope an inspector signed off on that, because it looks extremely sketchy to me. I personally wouldn't even feel comfortable drilling the three holes he makes later. "Beautiful" is definitely not what I'd be saying at that moment.
Thermopan is great, but it looks to me like this installation might have been better off with less 4" holes and more actual ducts.
As a structural engineer, these openings exceed the allowable limits you'd see for a TJI, for both size and spacing, too big and too close together. I see this no way this passes, it's retrofitting or replacing at this time.
Nah most likely done on a weekend when the inspector is bbqing
why is there is no insulation ? it's a cooled air when they meet a normal air 90 % it will moist because of condensation and it can damage your'e ceiling
Its the return most likely it will not condense. Supply will. Plus it looks like its going to be in a conditioned space
put on safety glasses my son
is this a parody? Stud cavity air returns ? What is this 1982?
💀💀💀 not only is it a mess with the structure, but the return should never be open to the wood structure, since a fire will deliver smoke to the whole house and the return air will feed the fire throughout the whole joist bay. This man should take this down. I think We should sue him for incorrect practices information. Poor home owner.
All of that plus insanely restrictive!!!!
un F*&^ng Believable.
Hack.
I really think you should take this video down. I lost count of all the errors in construction/destruction and simple common sense. Although your intention is good, there will be air quality, furnace efficiency, and structural issues in the future. This is so much like what the "sheet metal guys" did in my 1972 home. Dust and dirt on all of those unsealed joints, poor furnace performance, and constant sore throats and coughing.
Hack
Next trip to the store, get yourself a f’n respirator. 🤦🏻♂️
where can i get the thermo pan?
+Shelley Diaz You can find Thermo Pan on our website here:
www.plumbersstock.com/thermopan-16048-16in-x-48-thermopan-cardboard-sheet.html
+PlumbersStock.com
Where can I buy the hole-saw to completely destroy a floor joist? I'm asking for a friend.
wont pass in cleveland !
My baby brother dropped a phone in the vent
Epic fail!
HVAC guru you are not.
💀💀💀💀💀💀🤣🤣🤣🤣
thats mickey mouse
This guy is a fool
This guy clearly has no idea.
Those holes are so illegal it’s not even funny, anybody doing this yourself, don’t just put 10 4” holes in a line like he did.
That joist is now damaged and won’t last a lifetime. Check your codes and do it right, never do HVAC that a plumber teaches you, cause they don’t know shit.
Boring video, lost concentration after 3 minutes, cant finish
do not do this lmao
This dude is clueless lmao
Wow none of you understand what this man is doing.There is nothing wrong with this video or his procedure.The holes in the webbing is fine AHJ would pass in heart beat.Nor do you have an understanding of air flow dynamics.
Speaking of WOW! You have no idea of hole spacing in TJI's. Just go look at a TJI manufacturer for hole size and spacing. The only way AHJ would pass this in a heartbeat is if they did a drive-by inspection!
You are wrong.