The Foundation for Building Power For Your Harley
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- Опубликовано: 17 ноя 2020
- Too many folks are disappointed with the power gain from their Stage I Upgrades, and then they spend more money on their Stage II, III & IV, but get less out of those than they should. See Why.
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Building on anything beside a Strong Foundation is robbing your bike of power.
➡️ Link to Video of Features of a True Performance Air Cleaner- • The Myth of Performanc...
LINK to Video on Important Exhaust Information - • Performance Harley Exh...
➡️ Link to Video on How to Have Free Flowing Exhaust That Performs Well (no flat spots)- • HD Exhaust-It can Heat...
➡️ Link to Video about Tuners for Sportsters & Twin Cams- • COOL DOWN Your Harley ...
➡️ Link to Video about the Milwaukee-Eight and Tuners - • Facts vs. Myths 17-20 ...
➡️ Link to Video Series on Increasing Performance via Optimum Engine Temperatures- • Multi-Part Series on W...
💥 Link to Free Flowing, Performance Air Cleaner Systems- www.dkcustomproducts.com/air-c...
💥 Link to External Breather Systems- www.dkcustomproducts.com/breat...
💥 Link To Photos & Details about WHY an External Breather System is so Important- www.dkcustomproducts.com/overv...
💥 Link to Differences Between HiFlow Air Cleaners, with Dyno Charts- www.dkcustomproducts.com/diffe...
➡️ Link to another video about how our High Flow Air Cleaners Cool Down Your Ride- • COOL DOWN Your Harley ...
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Thanks
Thank you for commenting! MB
This is an excellent series of videos to help riders improve power, comfort and extend the life of their engine.
Thanks, glad you enjoyed. 👍
"This is the way"...Thanks for sharing...
👍
So as soon as I get my new DK air cleaner, I should throw out my FL VIED and buy a Tuner, now I'm confused again.
No you should not throw out your FL-ViED but for a Stage 1 that you can be happy with and build on you need a true HiFlow Air Cleaner.
Here is another video on the subject that you may find interesting - ruclips.net/video/s8eoRhCbuH8/видео.html
Thanks for commenting! MB
@@DKCustomProducts I agree with all, but in this video Kevin said for a "Good Foundation" , and I have bought all, instead of a six to eight hundred dollar Tuner, I have the FL-VIED. So do I have a "good enough foundation" ?
Thanks for answering my question(s)on the other video. So, this is what i have. I have a 22 SGST with a 117. I was thinking about going straight to a stage 2. This is how my bike is set up. It has a factory stock “heavy breather” air filter. I put Tab 50 Cal slip ons on. I have not done a stage 1 because they told me i did not need to with having just slip ons. They also told me that they could go straight to a stage 2 adding V&H true duals and allowing me to keep my Tab 50 Cals. But here is the kicker. I was quoted 4 grand to do this work which turned me off to the idea because this bike runs great as is and I’m not trying to achieve super high speeds or anything. I’m interested in your thoughts.
Since you are not looking for a super fast bike, but are looking for good solid power and reliability for your engine. I have linked a video below. This is what we do to our bikes and it sets a good foundation for any stage upgrades you may be looking for in the future. -
ruclips.net/video/GK5x3lcQvJU/видео.html
Please feel free to reach out with any questions;
Support@DKCustomProducts.com
662-252-8828
Thanks for commenting! 😎 MB
As far as engine temp goes I use one ounce per gallon marvels mystery oil in my bike XL1200L with high test and my bike runs 30-40 degrees cooler than normal. The highest temp I have gotten this summer is 200. And yes I have checked it with multiple thermometers they always read the same. The stuff lubricated the cylinders above the piston and reduces friction.
I've heard a few similar accounts.
Without the oil in the gas your Sporty runs 230-240 oil temps on a hot day. and with it, it runs 200 on a hot day?
Good stuff guys 💯
Thanks! 👍
More power to ya!
👍
A few months I test rode a couple of bikes at the local Harley dealer. 2021 Sport Glide 107 with a Tune & a 2023 Heritage 114, No Tune. I was surprised at how the Sport Glide 107 just felt quicker & sounded better than the Heritage 114.😮😊
The tune will give a little extra edge, as you can see in the report at this link- www.dkcustomproducts.com/milwaukee-eight-dyno-charts-other-interesting-info-dk-m8-rpt.htm
But a few other contributing factors are different OEM exhaust on those two bikes, Sport Glide weighs a little less, the exact same models will feel different bike to bike, and probably most important...the Sport Glide just has a lighter, more Sporty feel to it.
I recently bought a 2020 Road Glide Limited with the M8. While I was searching some forums for exhaust people were using on this new motor, I discovered a lot of people complaining about the loss of power they got from doing a full Stage 1 upgrade.
Then I found a video from a guy named Mat Laidlaw, Harley dealer in California, who talked about this problem. He mentioned after the M8’s came out they were seeing a drop in power also from a full Stage 1 upgrade. They discovered that the M8 likes back pressure and the culprit was the after market head pipes. They were able to get more power from changing the Air Cleaner, Slip Ons, and a good Tune.
Have you noticed anything like this or care to comment on this? I haven’t been able to find anything else, either in a post or video to back this up.
Great question. Yeah, we've heard that before about Matt too. Usually his videos are pretty good/innocuous, he even promotes some of our parts (thanks Matt!) But the info on back pressure is simply wrong. We have well over 1000 Customers that have done upgrades with our Stage I's on their M8's and have gotten very nice bumps in power. Including several M8's owned by folks on the DK Team. In this video we touch on why/how exhaust can hurt or help power on the Harley engines, including the M8...at around the 3:50 mark
Here is a video on an M8 exhaust mod....read the comments in it- ruclips.net/video/uSC1PBAgZmE/видео.html
Here is another good video on Harley exhaust- ruclips.net/video/nB0XDQVjH9Y/видео.html
Here is a written report explaining the Myths & Facts about Harley exhaust- www.dkcustomproducts.com/harley-exhaust-myths-and-facts.htm
Here's a link to a playlist of videos of guys who have their exhaust figured out- ruclips.net/p/PLb3bvZgbH92-y9LGItkUD9O2fFo3-gtVl
Excellent advice. I own a 2013 FLHTK twin cam and replaced my air filter, header, and mufflers to create more power and reduce heat. Unfortunately, I ended up with a poor/fair tune. Once I found a tuner that knew what he was doing it ran great. I then realized the stock cam was crap in my opinion and installed an S&S 551 and went back to the same tuner. Now I have an engine that runs great and is a perfect fit for my bike and my two-up riding in the mountains of New Hampshire.
Thank you for the comment.
Sounds like you have your bike set up just how you like it!
@@DKCustomProducts Ohlins suspension front and rear really put the finishing touch on my bike.
@@kerrylewis2581 Glad you're enjoying your ride.
DK Customs goy my attention a little while back, when I did my tanklift and recently while researching EBS.. I hear what your saying about the stg1, however I also feel there are many more HP and TQ gains that can be had with the other stg improvements.. Although, if the engine isnt equipped with the necessary parts to support those upgrades, they will not be truly benefiting, and the engines lifespan will be drastically reduced. I have a well tuned stg2 upgrade on my 2003 Dyna TC88, that was actually working very well, as a stg1, but knew the camshoe issue was gonna haunt me at some point. So, I checked CRO (.0025) and then installed the S&S 509g complete camchest upgrade. I was not looking for a racing engine, however I did want to improve the HP and TQ a little , and not worry about camshoe failure any more. Ive been running the Arlen Ness Big Sucker, but became interested in the 606 AC with External Breathing, that you have.. Im hoping to get the delivery this week, and do the install. I will be glad to review the change if anyone is interested. It will be a, seat of the pants, review that is primarily being done to improve engine life. I had a 2002 TC 88 that actually went over 57k on original camshoes.. It was rare, and before the camshoe issue was so glaring to me. My 2003 Dyna only has 12k now, but want it to last for the long haul.. Its my keeper ! Not my last ride, but it isnt going anywhere.. Just picked up a 2021 Streebob and it fills all my new bike desires.
Hey Fred! Absolutely agree with everything you wrote. Gotta have a great foundation, or else those extra mods won't deliver anywhere near their potential. Sounds like you are doing everything right.
So many folks want more power and so they do cams, or more, and because their foundation was weak, they get a performance increase, but not nearly as much as they could with a great foundation.
Thanks for your business, I believe you will be well pleased with your DK parts. 👍
Attempted to answer your reply it failed. Answer was yes
That's amazing. We do a lot of heat tests. We may give that one a go.
Does a cat delete help with heat on a twin cam ??
It will definitely help reduce the felt heat radiating from the exhaust on the right side. It does not reduce actual engine heat. Here' are a couple of videos you may find useful-
ruclips.net/video/ks39Gwb3NdI/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/o3T3yA9BKwE/видео.html
can I get a good foundation with the stock headpipe with the cat still in it on an M8 ?
Yes, the OEM head pipe is a very good performer. The cat generates heat after the engine, but has very little restriction at all. Would it be a little better without the cat? Yes, but not an amount that you could feel. And there is nothing bad for the engine about it at all.
Devin & Kevin is it possible for a video of each of your, Heritage Softail and Tri Glide, how each is setup?? Air cleaner, tuner, heat reduction and exhaust. Like your videos.
Thank you, glad you're liking the videos. We've done the two videos you asked about...see links below.
The walk around of the Heritage video can be seen here- www.dkcustomproducts.com/shoptalk/
The walk around of the Tri Glide video can be seen here- ruclips.net/video/5h77GQJTW1w/видео.html (I am not done with the Tri Glide yet)
@@DKCustomProducts Thanks I will take a look.
Did you really just say a good stage 1 could out perform a stage 2 and maybe a 3??? I’ve had all 3 stages done separate on the same bike by a very good mechanic. There is no way any form of stage one on a 107” M8 is going to be better than the same stage 1, adding a cam ( stage 2) then upping displacement (stage 3). If you really think any form of stage 1 outperform any higher stages, I’m watching the wrong RUclips channel. I’d put my zippers performance 117” M8 with a 468 cam against any stage 1 you can build. Later.
Yeah, we screwed up. We did not mention til the end part of the video that we were talking about the typical Stage II or Stage III that is built on a typical mediocre Stage I. You may have a great or exceptional Stage I (which is what this video is about, getting a good foundation) that your other upgrades are built on.
But, yes, if a person has a typical Stage II, that is built on a typical Stage I, then more likely than not, the same bike with an exceptional or great Stage I will outperform it.
I will buy everything from DK CUSTOMS to modify my CVO to make the foundation you just described.
I wish your channel would do a DIY demo on a new model Harley of each of the four points revealed in this video.
Thanks man. We appreciate your business, and believe you will be well pleased with the parts.
Regarding the videos, I think we have all those.
1. Air Cleaner...here are a couple of video installs on a new M8 - ruclips.net/video/xCzHDQ20o_M/видео.html and here- ruclips.net/video/P5kqcm0Lx1o/видео.html
2. Tune...here is a video regarding tunes on an M8 - ruclips.net/video/aWW-nt7-fzA/видео.html and here is a written report on the same subject- www.dkcustomproducts.com/milwaukee-eight-dyno-charts-other-interesting-info-dk-m8-rpt.htm We will do a video in the future showing the installation and step-by-step of a PV on an M8
3. Exhaust...Here is a video of the best exhaust mod for power on an M8, and how to do it. ruclips.net/video/uSC1PBAgZmE/видео.html While this will produce great power, for some it is too loud. Here is a video on how to choose the right exhaust for you- ruclips.net/video/H681dl2X_f4/видео.html
4. Running at the Optimum Temperature for Performance- We have an entire series of videos on that subject that can be seen here- ruclips.net/p/PLb3bvZgbH92_3s-2vv63QggFJ3nteFd_C There are many DIY videos in the descriptions of some of the videos in this series.
Love your videos. I just bought a 1993 FLHS Electra Glide Sport. What is the ultimate stage 1 for my new Baby ?
CONGRATULATIONS on Your New To You Ride!!! 👍
On your evo, get a free flowing, well designed, EBS equipped Air cleaner. Make sure you have some TTI's in whatever exhaust you have. Once you have those two in place, jetting will need to be checked/adjusted & the timing dialed in (tuned). After that, monitor your heat...after a 1+ hour run at highway speeds, preferably in warmer weather, you want to see your oil temp between 190-220 F. If it is hotter, then talk to us about steps that can be taken. But you will probably be good. On the air cleaner/EBS/TTI talk to Dwayne at 662-420-4891...he will need details on your particular set up, then will be able to help you.
@@DKCustomProducts I’m so glad I stumbled onto DK. Real answers. Thank you so much guys. This one will be a beast
@Stephen Cahill Thanks! Wishing you many miles of smiles on your new ride.
Okay so my ventilator air cleaner on my Harley 2020 Tri Glide is no good makes hot oily air gets sucked in what is the magic recipe for a good foundation can you name brand for the secret sauce that you have on the Tri Glide behind you?
The not so magic, but really effective recipe is outlined in the video. It can be accomplished with a variety of name brands. For most of the ingredient to the recipe we use DK Custom Products, as shown in the links in the description of this video. If we did not make it clear in the video, please give Dwayne and email or a call at Support@DKCustomProducts.com or 662-420-4891, he will be able to answer any questions you have.
I have 2019 heritage 107 with stage 3 kit !! I have Arlene ness monster suckerer an cobra pipes !! Is there a better air cleaner an better pipes that would strengthen my TORQUE better ?? Love yr video an will be looking forward to watching an learning more for your videos !! Want to get the max out of my stage 3 and I do have the power Vision tuner on it!!
You can use that air cleaner and put an External Breather System on it. You could use a 606 air cleaner, it comes with an EBS, but it is not necessary if you put an EBS on your existing A/C. Links Below
You can use those pipes and put some Thunder Torque Inserts in them. Link Below
Make sure to get you temps where what is displayed on the Power Vision as "ET" does not go above 250 F and the oil temp does not go above 230 F. Link on this subject below.
www.dkcustomproducts.com/diy-external-breather-systems-407.htm
www.dkcustomproducts.com/milwaukee-eight-model-hiflow-606-air-cleaners-complete-systems-c657-172.htm
www.dkcustomproducts.com/thunder-torque-inserts-c57-267.htm
www.dkcustomproducts.com/why-how-to-cool-down-the-twin-cam-engine-part-i-dk-cl-tc-dn-1.htm
@@DKCustomProducts wow thank you so much for the information and I will be ordering those parts that you recommended and awesome no video and I'll be looking forward to seeing more of you know videos👍
@@robertyoung5678 Awesome, thanks man! We appreciate your business & support! Glad you're finding the videos useful!
@@DKCustomProducts yeah just put my order in today and subscribe to your Channel and I do get emails for your like mailing list and I definitely will be checking out more things to come you guys are fantastic thank you
@@robertyoung5678 Good Deal! Thanks again!
Do i need to wait until my warranty is up to go with a non Harley tuner?
Since you have an M8, they are not too lean and do not need a tuner. Even with upgrading the Exhaust and Air Cleaner. Of course the optimum performance will come from retuning but it is not needed. You can see details on that in this video- ruclips.net/video/Lb_57Z_Ipms/видео.html
Unless you are doing more than a Stage I upgrade on an M8, no tune is needed, and if you want a tune. There is no real benefit to the Screaming Eagle Tuner, as noted in the video below, it will only tune to EPA compliance, and will Not give the best performance or cooling tune. - ruclips.net/video/wQ6EzilYjiI/видео.html
Here is a video on our thoughts about tuning- ruclips.net/video/isBHK-Jy7Wk/видео.html
If you are doing more than a Stage I on an M8 then getting a real tuner is the only way to get an improvement, but will also jeopardize the HD warranty...so the best thing is to get a real warranty that covers everything. You can see a video on that here- ruclips.net/video/p8U4XsHyBug/видео.html
and another one here where we show how well the warranty works, even on non-HD parts- ruclips.net/video/Hqkxag-S1a8/видео.html
Thanks for commenting! MB
Good exhaust, good intake... Still under warranty and the dealer would not allow an aftermarket true variable tuner only the Screaming Chicken. Dyno'ed and reflash with the Orange Screaming Chicken Tuner. Grrrrrr! I can tell low end feels weaker but higher end feels better. Not happy with HD for the Tuner.
Yeah, only way around that is a Power Vision and restore the tune to factory before taking it in to dealership....that, or get a good aftermarket warranty that does not have those restrictions.
Your Low-End will probably feel better if you add some Thunder Torque Inserts™ to the slip-ons. www.dkcustomproducts.com/thunder-torque-inserts-c57-232.htm
I think you might have covered it in the last video. I just want to be smart.
I have a new 2021 Road Glide limited Harley coming in soon. What am i to do without VOIDING HARLEY WARRANTY? I can only use the new 21 Harley Tuner..
Yeah, it kind of sucks how Harley is doing that the last few years. Only thing to be done is accept their way, or get a good aftermarket warranty from Jim Palmer and just ignore the ridiculous HD warranty.
@@DKCustomProducts who is jim palmer and contact info for a warranty to cover aftermarket performance and towing with my ultra??? Thank you
@@kpnomad7 In the next week or so we will be publishing a video about MotorcycleAgent.com, but in the meantime, you can go to that site and email or call. Mention DK Custom to get a discount. We do NOT make anything if you do, but you will get a discount.
We have been working with Jim for over 10 years and are comfortable to recommend him.
Going to be a bit long, sorry, but a bit of history might help with this. Only been riding for 13 1/2 years and for 13 of those I had a DR650 and have zero clue about all things mechanical. This year I got a 2021 Slim, big difference and I love it. The Slim has plenty of power for me but everyone I've spoken with has been Stage 1 AT LEAST, you need more power, power, POWER. But nope, I'm Cpt Slow and 99% of my riding is commuting, and even on a ride of a few hundred kms I won't take a motorway if I can find a more interesting B road . What I want is a set of slip ons, purely to make my bike sound like a Harley and what I NEED is reliability, I'm no mechanic and I want this bike to last. Your videos are great but largely over my head, so this is a very long way of asking can I just whack on some Rinehart 3 1/2" or something and be good given the bike is almost perfect for me as is?
Congrats on your first Harley! 👍
The Slim is a nice ride, for sure.
For reliability, I think you will find the following playlist useful, it goes step by step thru what you can do to get that slim into the optimum state for reliability. Below that link is a link to a written report on the same subject.
ruclips.net/p/PLb3bvZgbH92_3s-2vv63QggFJ3nteFd_C
www.dkcustomproducts.com/why-how-to-cool-down-the-twin-cam-engine-part-i-dk-cl-tc-dn-1.htm
Regarding slip-on's to get a good Harley sound...the least expensive, and what will help the bike run a bit cooler and smoother, while giving a good deep tone, is to modify the existing slip-ons as shown in this video-
ruclips.net/video/tOMI3yBz_9w/видео.html
If you want to go with an aftermarket slip-on, there are many to choose from, which ever one you choose, if you install some TTI's in them, they will be a deeper sound, and you will not lose your low and mid range power (which is what happens when you add free flowing slip-ons)
TTI link- www.dkcustomproducts.com/thunder-torque-inserts-c57-295.htm
The Rineharts are fine, I personally prefer Rush Slip-ons.
Since what is pleasing to everyone's ears is different, here is a video we made on how to best choose exhaust-
ruclips.net/video/H681dl2X_f4/видео.html
@@DKCustomProducts Never even thought of modifying the stock setup. More to think about. Cheers.
@@shaynel834 Optimizing your stock exhaust is definitely an option! Thanks for watching!
What do you guys think of the two brothers exhaust?
They make some bad ass looking and sounding exhaust. As with any other exhaust, it still follows the rules of physics.
ruclips.net/video/pr6z00gL5Yg/видео.html
Hey there Kevin and crew, is like to email you some photos and a video to get some ideas of the upgrades I should be targeting.
Hey Stephen. Email the info to Support@DKCustomProducts.com and put a note in there to forward it to Dwayne. I will let him know to be expecting an email from you.
@@DKCustomProducts thank you so much, I hope to be a loyal member of the DK crew
Question, is your company open for business? I’ve left messages both Email and on the phone. Love you products!
Glad you're digging the parts. Thank you, we appreciate your business. Not sure why you have not heard back from us. Can't tell from your youtube name what your email addy is, so cannot check. We answer 99% of all calls and emails within the same business day. Give it another go at Support@DKCustomProducts.com or 662-252-8828. If your call or email fall into another black hole, email Melissa@DKCustomProducts.com and ask her to show Kevin your email.
Thanks, I was able to place my order, can’t wait to install!
@@outlaw6849 Good to hear. We appreciate your business and hope you enjoy the mod!
People should plan on buying the bike or trike then never walk in the stealership again. Get a shop manual and enjoy your ride.
Unfortunately the number of good Dealerships are shrinking. Good advice for those that want to do the work themselves or do not have a good dealership in their area.
Another option for those that don't want to work on their bikes is to find a good independent shop.
Thank you for your comment! 👍
It think you are mostly talking about stage 1 on Twin Cam. If referring to M8's you are little weak on being right in my opinion. When you said a stage 1 will out do a stage 2. To me a stage 2 includes stage 1 plus drop in cam. I disagree on some of the drop in cams on Twin cams and most on M8's. You go overly aggressive on drop in cams and yes will run worse. Big is not always better here. A Stage 2 Twin Cam and 95 HP and 110 torque + is not uncommon. On M8 114 110+ hp and 120+ torque on stage 2 is very common. I have not saw a stage 1 do that anytime. I do agree with what you said on tuners. I have also had several Twin Cams and done many stage 1, stage 2 and stage 3 or 4's mostly with Power Visions. When using right components there was a step up on all stages. Bang for buck depends on what components you used. M8's different story. You can go too big on exhaust and harm lowend on Stage 1 thru 3 on both Twin cam and M8's. Stage 4's you have got to have the flow. A Stage 3 M8 with After market cam of right size and it is capable of going in 120's with addition of springs for higher lift as Harley uses.
Yes, a Stage II, by definition already has (or includes) a Stage I. The problem is that the vast majority of the Stage I's are mediocre...poor foundations to build the Stage II and up on. This video is talking about having a Good Foundation, vs. a mediocre one. The M8 stock is mediocre, most aftermarket M8 Stage I kits are mediocre (including those that come with Stage II's and up).
The fact that the M8 responds well to Stage II-IV upgrades when built on a mediocre Stage I does not change that if it was built on a Good Stage I it will respond even better. Look at the chart at this link- www.dkcustomproducts.com/media/wysiwyg/Stock_Stock_587.jpg 10% increase just off of a good A/C on an M8 is not what you see off of the run of the mill, everyday mediocre air cleaners.
The M8 is a strong engine, that responds well to upgrades...BUT, even my Stage I TWIN CAM Tri Glide was putting out 106 Torque...that is just a Stage I, on a Twin Cam, on a TRIKE with all that extra rolling resistance.
Nothing replaces a good foundation. In no world are Air cleaners that feed hot, oily, oxygen depleted air into the throttle body and combustion chambers a good foundation...that robs power. Air Cleaners that flow poorly AFTER the air passes thru the filter element also rob power (regardless of any other upgrades). Exhaust that is restrictive (read OEM) robs power. Exhaust that is open (regardless of size) has reversion, which also robs power. Excessive heat is also a HUGE power robber. (oil over 220-230 and/or heat sensor over 260-270 on an M8).
Here are a couple of videos where we go more in depth regarding the M8 and what makes good power and what robs power.
ruclips.net/video/aWW-nt7-fzA/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/rWOdQOtDv6A/видео.html