They Were Too Late (Air China Flight 129) - DISASTER BREAKDOWN
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- Опубликовано: 20 янв 2023
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Twitter: / chloe_howiecb
For the country of South Korea, the nation has seen more than its fair share of air accidents. One of the deadliest to involve South Korea occurred on April 15th, 2002. Air China Flight 129 crashed into the side of a mountain whilst navigating to its destination airport. What investigators were later trying to figure out, is why. The airport in question is one of the largest airports in South Korea, serving the large city of Busan and the surrounding areas. it has a set of standard procedures that pilots always follow. Planes come and go so often at Gimhae International Airport that the fact that this accident occurred lead to many asking the question of, what actually went wrong here? So let’s delve into Air China Flight 129
Sources:
www.baaa-acro.com/sites/defau...
aviation-safety.net/database/...
web.archive.org/web/202006011...
/ missing-the-point-the-...
www.icao.int/apac/meetings/20...[compatibility%20mode].pdf
simpleflying.com/the-rise-and...
simpleflying.com/ups-new-boei....
www.thinkaviation.net/circlin...
www.code7700.com/case_study_a...
skybrary.aero/sites/default/f...
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If you found this video to be interesting, be sure to subscribe as there is a new video every Saturday. This video also went out to my Patrons on Patreon 48 hours before going out publicly. Consider joining here from £1 per month: www.patreon.com/DisasterBreakdown
Twitter: twitter.com/Chloe_HowieCB
Can you make Olympic Airways flight 411
op i go to sleep u speak sooooo slow chop chop
@@allanwatts9213 just speed up the video.
Ho lee sht We tu loa
I love the channel! But something can't be "25× _less_ safe." "25× _more_ dangerous," sure; or "1/25th the risk." But 25x _less than,_ say, 100, for example, is *negative 2400,* no?
Great video. My dad missed this flight after he left his passport in his hotel room. He had a business class ticket so it's a good thing he didn't get on!
😮😥😓😁💯💯
Wow 😲
Luck is 110%
Source : trust me
@@kevinrath3988 yeah dude it's literally an anecdote ?? you want their dad to hunt down his tickets from 2002 just for you?
The fact the captain survived is astonishing. I am sure he suffered from this for many many years..
In a recent interview, he said he doesn’t give a fuck
@@MassimoAngotzi, you have a link for that?
@@MassimoAngotzi
Apologise
@@MassimoAngotzi Fairly confident that this is not factual
@@seriouscat2231 His link is that he made it the fuck up.
For those interested the CAAC Airlines was split into 6, China Southern, China Southwest, China Eastern, China Northern, China Northwest, and Air China. China Northern ceased operations in the early 2000s, China Northwest merged with China Eastern, China Southwest Merged with Air China. The remaining Airlines left now are China Southern, China Eastern and Air China
Wow that's a lot of information,very interesting stuff, thank you for that.
Northern merged into Southern in 2003, so there's a joke in Shenyang city, where Northern Airlines was based: "The South brought The North" 😂
Another amazing video! One thing I miss, though, is the Disaster Averted series. Maybe you could bring it back with Transair flight 671 - a 707 LOST ( they broke away ) two engines on the same wing, caught on fire and managed to land.
I do have a bunch of ideas for another Disaster Averted. I would like to do more, currently the playlist is standing at 7 videos but I know I could do much more of them :)
They didn’t catch fire,they broke Off
@@DisasterBreakdown Or the JFK Runway Incursion in the evening of 13-01-2023
@@oalacartof2852 Yep, I know. I meant that the wing caught on fire, not the engines.
@@DisasterBreakdown That’s great! Can’t wait for new videos!
Great video. One of my flying instructors who flew in the Korean Air Force is very familiar with this crash and declared the Captain was stupid.
Just one correction, this crash is the worst crash in South Korea.
The Captain should have listened to his First Officer and immediately execute a missed approach. At the airline I flew for, if either pilot announced that a missed approach was required it was mandatory to perform one immediately.
I suppose CRM is a fairly recent thing. I’ve heard that it took quite a few incidents before certain airlines gave the first officers more ability to challenge the captain.
@@mikoto7693 It’s not recent. It dates back to the 70s and was first instituted by United Airlines after one of their DC8s ran out of fuel and crashed in Oregon.
They operated based off of pride and who had more experience back then so most of the time the first officer was ignored by the captain. A lot of people have lost their lives over the years due to the poor judgment of their captains.
@mikoto7693 Been standard in the U.S. since the 70s. It was introduced due to a string of crashes involving burnt out landing gear indicator lights. I'm not joking look it up.
The 767 is one of my favorite types. It's a wide body capable of flying nonstop San Francisco to Paris, but it's not as big as other widebodies. Great plane to fly.
They don't make them like they used to!
Having just come back from a transatlantic trip on a 777, I totally get why airlines are going for smaller craft with more efficient seating etc. But dammit, even economy on a 747 was more comfortable. When I disembarked in America on the outbound trip I was amazed to see how small a 777 is. Even sardines have more space :(.
@@louiseogden1296 it’s the 3-4-3 seating. The A321XLR once in service would probably be more comfortable for those distances.
@@louiseogden1296 If you fly fairly often there's a website called seat guru that lists seating on most airlines, and which planes, with notes on things like "this seat has obstructed foot space because of video box" and such. You have to check carefully or you'll miss things, but it's a good site.
@@unknownperson3691 Loved the 747. Got stuck in the "middle-middle" seat one time. Never again.
Wasn’t it the first two engine plane that was allowed to cross the Atlantic and Pacific and previously they needed 3 or 4? Nowadays I think a couple of the more modern two engine planes have a better etops rating and can fly further from an airport than a 747 which really shows how much more powerful and efficient they’ve become.
Clearly the pilots were not flying a stabilised approach. This seems to me like a lack of training combined with a lack of proper cockpit management on the part of the flight crew. I wonder why the pilots didn't request more time from ATC - maybe they should have asked to go into a holding pattern while they made the necessary preparations for landing, before making the approach.
Not noticing that they were flying too fast, their situational awareness was not nearly as precise as it should have been. Pilots cannot afford to make mistakes of this sort, because as in this case, the results can be disastrous.
the thing i am most amazed by is how you present these cases in an entertaining manner, while still being able to educate about flight systems and such. amazing!
Been following Chloe for a long time and I can attest that she could present a documentary on spoons and people would listen. She has a wonderful presenter tone and voice.
@@Losaru thats true. i first found her channel when i was trying to get that whole columbia disaster and it was, well. shocking. but it was also very relaxing to listen to her. (which is weird to admit since basically every videotopic is rather horrible) 🤔😅
Can anyone share the name or link of of Chloe's channel ?
its kinda sad that the pilot who didn't take action survived and the first officer who wanted to do the right thing didn't.
I’m home sick today and seeing your upload put a smile on my face. Thanks for making my sick day a little brighter. Your videos are always amazing and respectful of the accidents.
Hope you get better soon. Get lots of rest :) Thanks for watching!
Get well soon! 💐
The nice thing about the 767 was the nearly identical flight decks to the 757 which I had previously worked at the Boeing Renton field. The 767s of course being much larger were made in Everett. Both were very much user friendly for maintenance as was the E-bay downstairs which was much more roomy.
Fact: The captain later benefited from the attitude of Chinese aviation authorities (“it's Korean's fault”) therefore did not face any harsh penalties like the pilot who caused the VD8387 crash. He retired from flying but continued to receive salary from air China. According to aviation enthusiasts' report, captain Wu now runs (probably owns) a commercial flight simulator in Beijing’s Wangfujin area. So there's a chance you would meet him as a customer.
did you watch the same video i did? the airport was using the runway lights in a very dangerous way to save money. captain wu did not cause this accident.
@@LieseFuryYou clearly don’t fly. Lights on, lights off makes no difference. A circling approach is one that requires the aircraft to be flown in a non-standard way but more importantly in constant visual contact with the runway you will be landing on. The lights in question are just a convenient way of allowing you to stay visual. The moment you lose visual contact you go-around. This crew did not. The responsibility for no doing so lies fairly and squarely on Captain Wu’s shoulders. Some of the big questions here should have been: 1. Why did they not properly prepare for this approach as a crew? 2. Why didn’t the crew not go around? 3. Why the breakdown in crew co-ordination when swapping controls? 4. How much practice did this crew have in visual/manual flying? 5. When did they last practice a circling approach? And so on…
I mean of course the captain didn't face any penalties, this accident wasn't caused by pilot error.
The fact that the capt. still received salary from the company even though he didn't work for them anymore is super weird tho. I'd love that lol, to quit my job but still being paid by my former employer. Good life 😅
@@KoffinKat Because it is not like the West, where everything is profit-centric and everyone only thinks selfishly
@@LieseFuryit's called an instrument landing because you don't need any lights. If a pilot can't fly his plane by instruments alone, he should not be piloting a passenger airliner.
Thank you for your amazing content and hard work! I've been a aviation fan since I was a kid. I'm from Canada and my Grandparent's own a home on the Bay of Quintie. They live about 15 kms away from Canada's largest Airforce Base called CFB, 8 Wing Trenton. The Base is currently home for the C-17A, C-130J, and a SQN of F/A-18C's, they have been at the base since 9/11. CFB, 8 Wing Trenton also has a Search & Rescue SQN. I remember being a kid and watching the 707's and C-130H's conduct maneuver's over the Bay of Quintie! They would fly so low and I have to say that the 707 was the loudest aircraft I've ever heard! I sure miss those day's!
1. "The lights were on a timer to save money"
2. "The pilots of 129 didn't get a warning they were flying dangerously close to the mountains"
3. "This plane was fitted with that older version of the (GPWS) system"
This channel is underrated
This is an accident I never knew anything about. Thanks for posting this Chloe!
If you're still taking suggestions for accidents to cover, has anyone suggested the icing accident of Air Ontario Flight 1363?
I grew up in Northwestern Ontario and travelled several times on the smaller Air Ontario planes, so it's one I remember well.
Cannot say enough praise for this channel...A very knowledgeable host and the matter is presented very well!
A topic i would like to see is the story of Northwest Airlines Flight 253. A Christmas day disaster which almost happened, but was avoided in a very unexpected way.
As I understand it; in the United States circling approaches are prohibited for commercial flights
I live under the primary approach to an airport with moderate freight traffic. I very much appreciate the quiet B767s.
Great video as usual! :)
Thanks!
Excellent video yet again Chloe 👌
I was an expatriate Captain at KAL. I’ve flown that approach many times. It can be challenging, especially in low visibility conditions.
Another amazing video, looking forward to a longer one next week!
that's quite the series of compounding problems 😅 great video, as always!
Airblue 202 seems familiar to this disaster
-A similar approach
-overextended the approach
-crashed onto an elevated land
Might have to look into that one myself. A source I used for this video did mention the Airblue accident
@@DisasterBreakdown Is it wikipedia 😅
And the fact that the captain berated his first officer thus making him not challenged the captain when things go wrong along with not following proper procedures!
@@pennywaltz4601 I think you misspelled berated
@@senabecool7232 thanks for telling me about it I just fixed it.
Thank you so much for your content
there really should be a standing rule. If ANY crew member calls for a go around, it must be executed. Failure to do so should result in significant repercussions. Also any change in pilot flying on approach should also result in an automatic go around. How can an approach be stable if you change the pilot flying?
Great video as always! Do you think you could make a video of Lamia flight 2933? Unbelievable stuff were made by the pilots. I guess it would give a cool video!
Amazing video as always! You could probably make a video about the crash that killed Buddy Holly. Other then that, keep up the good work!
RIP
To the 129 passengers and crew of Air China Flight 129
Another excellent episode of a very tragic event!!!🙏😢✈️❣️
Goodness these videos are so well done
Circling approaches in areas where terrain is a significant factor call for a high level of concentration even with good visibility.. when visibility is poor and timing is involved, the potential for errors is markedly increased.. having to monitor the actions of the handling pilot while at the same time attempting not to lose sight of the runway can quickly become very demanding. The briefing must emphasise that loss of visual acquisition must be cause to break off the approach.
AWESOME VIDEOS AS ALWAYS!!!! btw can you do a video on yeti airlines crash which happened recently? :)
I'll make a video on it when the investigation is complete and we know what really happened.
Hey there, I'm curious about something you said @ about 6:30-6:50. You stated you read a report that said these circle landings are 25 times more dangerous then standard landings. Did you mean 25% more? Or actually 25 times? Crazy to think..
Minor correction for Chloe : Busan is the second largest city in South Korea. The largest airport by passenger traffic is Incheon Airport which services the capital city of Seoul. It carries over 5 times the number of passengers than the Gimhae airport discussed in the video. Love your videos and keep up the great work.
This is why my friends immediately booked the back seats the only time we flew together...to a place which is barely above sea level :D.
Love your videos Chloe, I've literally watched all of them! I noticed the titles to the background music scrolling at the bottom, not sure if it's new or I just never paid attention enough but I always wanted to know the titles. It's gotten to the point where I memorized their sequence and I know what part of the video you're on as soon as I hear the soundtrack lol. Much love from 🇿🇲
Thanks for watching! Yeah the music titles is a new thing. People seem to like it as some viewers have asked what each piece of music was. Figured it would be handy.
@@DisasterBreakdown i wish every channel would do this. it's common in japanese pc games and for almost a decade now i've found myself wondering why it's not standard in everything.
I am certain that most viewers would agree that this is a quality video, and that the narrator's voice is splendid for a RUclips presentation. I wish that all postings would have this fellow doing the talking... 😊
ps- I am already subscribed. 👍
Oh neat I didn't know you were a pilot, makes these whole series a bit more insightful from your end.
Always love watching these during my lunch breaks, Chloe! Another wonderful video!
Glad to be your lunchtime viewing for videos.
I work no a 767-200F everyday. Unload it, re-load, (Cargo) and turn it around in less than 2 hours! Amlost always, it is the same one, N652GT!
WOW 2 hours? That's impressive. I would have thought it would take all day to unload and load up big freighters. Impressive :)
Even our small airport (partly the ANG's) has runway lights that seem to come on at the "last minute" before landing (I've driven by it a lot)...probably bc the city lights keep it luminated? My short stint at lessons were done during the day and only in good weather
Great video! They really make my day every time we get them! Glad to be a patreon to support more of these!
🥸
I live near Manchester airport in New Hampshire so the 767 is a comm sight for me leaving work in the morning. Always fascinating to hear stories about the aircraft series. But nonetheless keep up the goof work. This was a great video!
..you see a lot of “goof” work on the innarknet.
😂
Excellent Video of Breakdown from a voidable Disaster.
I always find it incredulous, that an airline would allow such an inexperienced crew to fly together especially when dealing with an airport in such a mountenous area. It only takes bad weather and this is the consequence.
the crew members had several thousand hours of experience between them, so they weren't inexperienced.
@@adotintheshark4848 In my view 6000,5000 and 2000 hours is not a particularly experienced crew. Compounded by the fact they had not done this approach at this airport before. Also the Captain didn't brief the new approach to the other pilots showed inexperience.
@@greymark420You are confusing experience measured in hours and pilot age for ability. There are many European airlines with F/O’s who have just a few hundred hours operating into very challenging, mountainous airports. What makes them safe is proper training and procedures. If a flight has been properly planned then poor weather is irrelevant, just inconvenient. The topology of destination just increases the minima.
@@Trevor_Austin Agreed, but as I stated the fact that the Captain had not discussed the approach a very basic criteria which really doesn't require training, shows inexperience.
@@greymark420 It sounds like you are changing your story. From experience I can tell that failing to perform an adequate brief is typically something an old hand does, not a newby. Also be aware that a brief only has value if it nails the pertinent points. Long winded monologues serve little value. This crew lacked ability, not words.
This accident happened on the day I was born, so sad to see how it came down
I remember flying in to XNA once. We did a circle into a landing; I think it was a matter of the winds being unfavorable for the usual approach. It was a little CRJ aircraft, 1x2 seating, so rather sprightly. I'm not sure if the pilot was just being a bit reckless, but we were banked hard to port, nothing but grass on the left and blue sky on the right, right up to leveling off and touching down about four or five seconds later.
Come to think of it, I've had takeoffs from that airport that do just about the same thing, gear up and a hard bank. Maybe the air space is not as wide open as it once was.
I flew a lot when I was younger but after watching enough episodes of the show mayday I’ll never get on a plane again, when you see what can bring a plane down it’s terrifying.
Another great video Chloe. Thanks for the effort you put in to make this video's so interesting. Hope your well and thanks again.
Thanks for sharing. 😉👌🏻
Thanks for watching!
What a site for a runway !
it's like a natural harbor, with very high harbor walls.
Hi Mr disaster breakdown, I like your videos since I discovered your channel back last year. Great work as always! Btw I request can u do El Al Flight 1862 or 1976 Zagreb mid air collision? Thanks and mabuhay from 🇵🇭💓
Sorry, Disaster Breakdown is trans female. Her name is now Chloe 🙂
@@lukeweeks3470 really. I never noticed that. Either way she does great videos anyways
Ms.
@@lukeweeks3470 respectfully, there's not much way he would know that from listening.
@@julieleimkuehler1409 I didn’t know either until recently! I saw someone else comment on another video and then I found out 🙂
I have a tip for you that you can use in an episode, Braathens Safe flight 239, one of Norways few air disasters.
I am on FlightRadar24 all the time, there was a passenger flight using 767, I think United from Hawaii (Kauaii) to mainland just yesterday.
This is why you always do a proper briefing before executing any landings and never try to land in fog.
Well, back then yes, in that particular older model, yes. Even today at the airport I work at in ground handling if the fog gets too bad some airlines will choose not to land but it’s possible still using a cat 3 landing. Basically a landing with no visual references at all, done mostly automated but still a list of things the pilots still need to do like flaps and landing gear’s ect.
10:27
Oh no, it's the "they're about to crash" music
The 767 is a great plane, always has been, always will.
just a quick correction, the downwind to base turn is a 90 degree turn. it would be a 180 if they were turning base direct to final.
Were you a pilot Chloe? I notice you said you’ve flown circling approaches and wondered.
Great video as usual! Unfortunately I was no able to guess the plane.sorry bro.
Maybe next time!
2:35 my dad use to work for Ansett Australia specially Boeing 767
Did the flight crew mess up? Absolutely. Does the fact that these flight controls/parameters mean that the GPWS would disengage blow my mind? Yes.
Hello Disaster Breakdown loved this video i did watch most before i eventually fell asleep. But loved it, i would love to see at least Transair 671 or Olympic Airways Flight 411 as disaster adverted.
However, i thought for another disaster breakdown video. Would be around Japan as to be honest i would love to see ANA (All Nippon Airways) Flight 60 and 533 alongside Canadian Pacific 402 (Mentioned in the BOAC 911 video) as all these accidents occurred in 1966 within the span of around 8 months. Aside from that one. I do want to see a video of Emery Worldwide Cargo Flight 17. Similar to Trans International Airlines 863 had an issue with its elevator during takeoff but i won't have much leaked aside from the plane which was a DC-8-71F registered as N8079U.
Wow can't be there were survivors!
Yay, rail videos! Love you DB
Yes another rail video is in the works and we'll be going to Scotland for it!
I don't really understand why China's investigation and the pilot keep bringing up the runway lights. If there was a ever a sure fire reason to initiate a go around it would be because the runway isn't lit up.
It's a cultural/political problem in China that if it is involved with a foreign party, chinese authorities(CCP) tend to blame foreigners to prevent themselves from "losing face", thus fewer people would question their legitimacy. For CA129, such action actually protected the surviving pilot. While some other pilots/engineers involved in domestic accidents were finger-pointed and sentenced for many years.
This is why doing your research is important when buying a plane ticket. Never go for a sketchy airline. Never fly to airports with a spotty track record. Always try to inform yourself of the profile of the cabin crew of flights involved in accidents by that airline to see if there's a pattern of low experienced or poorly trained pilots.
Quality costs money.
All these videos and I somehow didn't know that you were a pilot
Seems madness that an airport would turn the runway lights off when planes are landing.
I think he mentioned something about the timer controlling it being off by some 20 minutes, either case they should have gone for a a go-around as soon as things started going wrong.
I think I might be addicted to this channel 😛. Brilliant video as always 👌
Glad you enjoy it!
Wasn’t the LaudaAir a 767?
While the conditions weren't great, it sounds like bad Crew Resource Management
R.I.P. I know it's easy to be an armchair critic after the event, but if I were ever an aircraft pilot my No. 1 consideration at all times would be "where are the mountains".
I like living where the trees are as tall as any near by ‘mountains.’ Lol.
Super weird layout for Gimhae airport, I can't imagine why anyone would think it was a good idea. Airport is perpendicular toward the northwest mountains, instead of the northeast valley.
I was right, a great video about the Boeing 767 :)
It's also interesting to note that whole flight crew was quite young for a passenger jet of that size.
Two things... One, its hilarious that China is shaming the aviation infrastructure of another country, and two... Having expat friends who have flown in Chinese airlines, Im confident their accident records are much higher than reported.
Airliner crashes in China could be covered up by the government? Like the government pay off the families to be remained silence?
What’s hilarious??? People died, so confused, with your humour.
Average western right wing blabbering
I once attended a university’s Air Traffic Control program that at the time I attended hosted a professional Chinese atc group. According to my professors they preformed poorly in the simulated atc program.
Yup
I had started watching your videos back in October 2021 and I have enjoy your channel. And you maybe should do give aways as well 14:41
Thanks so much for watching!
Substandard regulations all around led to this. Certain "first world" countries definitely shouldn't be classified that way, RoK especially
"I have made these approaches 'in theory' just like this one." ....what exactly does that mean? On a simulator or something along those lines? (if I'm not sure about something, I ask, that's all)
Naturally both countries are pointing fingers at each other for the failures on both ends.
I'm surprised that a timer was used in this case. Maybe it's common practice, but it feels risky.
When in doubt, go around.
It's much easier to recover from a missed approach than a crash landing
RIP crew & passengers
Why do flights not have some kind of GPS system to show where the plane is? I mean, at least to assist this kind of circle around maneuver?
How is it even a question if the captain never briefed the FO on the change of plans regarding landing. And not a minor change of plans!? WtHeck?!
In sailing...position and depth. In flying...position and altitude (depth) And, looking at charts. So, this crew hadn't looked at the risk of flying past the runway? The mountains! Poor performance. Peace be unto you.
Watching the animation of the aircraft flying into the tree was chilling.
13:48 Like said "Let's pause here for just a moment" : Prximity ? Not a proximity warning system ? 😁
Can you do Garuda Indonesia Flight 200 which over flew the runway in Yogakarta and killed 21 people.
Literally the second officer had one job to do but didn't do it!
On a side note… can we talk about how 129 people died on air China flight 129? Has that ever happened before?
Well I must say as a man of aviation curiosity and even USN flight deck experience, it seldom surprises me how often things that seem insignificant end up turning into disasters of global memories.
You, Sir do a great job narrarating these videos as well as the research and editing that goes along with creating them.
I watch many other channels with similar stories and details of them, however, few delve outside of aviation into say, ocean liners or train tragedies making their content more varied for someone who CAN get enough plane crashes..
Maybe try yo get uour mind around doing a mini documentary series?
Either way, the more choices people have, the less likely they'll stray too far elsewhere to get their learn on here.
Just saying...more choices, more diversity. More diversity, more customers.
Peessowt
This disaster is yet another avoidable one. Pilots deficiency/gets overloaded, old GPWS shortcomings… and for some reason ATC didn’t warn them about the terrain (there was an low altitude alarm sounded in the tower, but the controller didn’t warn them…). The latter is what Chinese’s comments focused on, where South Korea didn’t seems to think their controller or the airport condition was also at fault in their report.
Any one of the three can prevented disaster… what a pity…
My airline would never allow a circling approach near terrain.
Hi please notice me your video is great
Hello :)
@@DisasterBreakdown btw you've read my previous comment right?