If you look at what ESA & NASA are using the answer is clearly no, as far as amateurs go anyway. I am sure there will be a finite limit due to how slowly light travels when you scale things up,
i have a Officina Stellare 152mm f8 APO triplet 1200mm fl and a f8 flat field lens that I use on my AP 1100 mount. At home it is out in open on a pier on my patio. Auto guiding is done through a 70mm refractor. Software for capture and autoguiding is Maxim DL. For remote use I use a Meade Giant Field tripod that is modified and sitting on pieces of plywood to avoid sinking in ground. I have no problem getting pin point round stars in long exposures even with single exposure times of 30-45 minutes through narrow band filters. I some times have a bit of wind but generally any scope will have an issue with wind. I found the secret is to remove any slop in mount, telescope attachment and guider mount. Also the setting numbers for the autoguider are critical. My camera is a fuill frame mono SBIG. I also sometimes use my Officina Stellare 80mm f6 APO triplet refractot in the same setup but no flat field lens. Yes I am sure wind would be less of an issue with the smaller scope but frankly it is not night and day. ONE VERY important item is to not place counter weighs far out on the counter weight shaft. Add more weight and move all weights as close as you can to the mount. If you don't do this the mount will ping-pong trying to work against gravity effects and the long lever arm effect of the weights if far out on the counter shaft. Also setting a longer delay between guider images will help minimize that ping pong effect. A longer exposure for autoguiding will also prevent you from chasing seeing issues. If you get egg or non round stars this is where it is coming from. Much of this info was suggested to me years ago by Roland Christen owner of Astro Physics.
Reflecting back on my earlier comments above and this video. The BIG take away is that many imagers don't take the time to achieve the correct BACK FOCUS distance through their image train. In addition to fine tuning with thin spacers to achieve the correct back focus, a method to tilt the focal plane is very important. Some camera brands take the time to get this plane parrallel for each individual camera (my SBIG comes to mind). Others just send the camera out with it as good as they can get. Other brands like my ZWO camera have a tilting adjust ability included in the camera body design. Different brands of cameras and even from model to model within a brand will have different back focus. Generally this is specified in the specs so if you use filters ALWAYS use a filter even if you don't need one. In that case just put a clear filter in the filer wheel or filter drawer for testing and optimizing your setup. Finally.....a big heavy refractor needs a large heavy duty mount to give good results. Trying to use a big refractor on an undersized mount will result in a lot of headaches and never give the results you want. In that case it is much better to stay with a smaller aperture refractor (but still with a very good mount). For astrophotography the mount is more important than the scope. My travel setup is a 80mm refractor on a ZWO AM5.....that gives outstanding results but the image from the 6" refractor when all is optimized is far superior to the image of that 80mm. But that setup if a lot easier to setup and use remotely than my AP1100 and 6" APO refractor!
Great video. My ground is mushy when wet. I solved that, but it takes moving extra gear for every use unless the gear can be left on site for as many days / nights as needed to gather the amount of data desired. I made a simple triangular base of plywood and lumber which fits the tripod feet when the tripod legs are extended. The plywood and 2x4 lumber are glued and screwed together and they're sturdy and durable. The tripod feet fit on the base top, which is made a little larger than the extended tripod legs. Before setting the tripod on the base I put down flat plywood disks of a diameter (8 " or 10" or 12" ) whatever it takes to give the wet ground stability when loaded with the tripod, scope etc. To level the triangular base I fitted the base (at the points of the trianle with t-nuts and all threads in a way that allows a very precise leveling adjustment of the base. It's not hard at all to accomplish leveling. The disks go on the ground and screwing the all threads lift / lower the base until its level. I put wing nuts on the top of each all thread which makes leveling the base quick, easy and tool less. To help compress the ground I often set a heavy weight (I beam or railroad steel etc) on top of the base and leave the weight there for several dalight hours. Of course I remove the compression weight just a minute before mounting the tripod onto the plywood base. The property is mine so I salted the grass where the disks go on the ground. That way I can set the base on the exact same spot every time very quickly. While installing the base / disks the first time I used a compass and aligned the South side of the tripod East and West. That points one tripod leg North so I don't have to align the base "every time" I set the tripod up for a session. Doing that also decreases the amount of time needed for adjusting for finding polaris to maybe 5 minutes. Oh, and I drilled divots on the base top so the feet also fit in the same place every time. To me it's worth the materials and moving the disks and base onto the location because it makes setup a lot more efficient when I use the same location a lot. I hope this comment helps someone.
Great video Nico, a very nice instrument and a stunning result! I hope you dont mind me making a couple of minor points on the review. 1. I use an Orion EON 130ED on an EQ6 (almost identical physical size and weight). Every observing session I single handedly transport, set up and use it, despite an above knee leg amputation, prosthetic leg and a paralysed dominant hand. If I can do it, then any able-bodied person can. Its true you can make easier or harder choices as you prefer, and getting it right calls for a realistic self-assessment of one's enthusiasm, but I don't think that couch potatoes with too much money deserve to be constantly warned about lovely big telescopes like this! Just let them buy the stuff if they want it, and offload it later if its wrong for them. That helps to stimulate the market, and makes gear available at more affordable prices for the real active enthusiasts. 2. I reliably get 1.5 arcsec rms guiding with an Orion 50mm Mini guidescope and an asi120MM (unless its windy). This is close to the atmospheric stability limit in 'good' seeing (1"-2") and the Rayleigh/Dawes limits (1.2"/0.9") for a 5 inch refractor, so I'd say an OAG isn't at all necessary especially at f/7 (or f/5.6 reduced). A piggyback setup is a $200 saving and is easier to setup. 3. The Askar is a very good quadruplet astrograph specialised for full frame photography at a premium price. A definite contender for serious RGB & narrowband work on nebulae. At $4K vs $2.6K (Q3 2022 prices) for an Orion, Explore Scientific, or Skywatcher 5" APO any of the triplets is better suited to intermediate/beginners (with an as yet unformed and roving interest). If matched to a small sensor OSC camera like the asi533mc pro on an EQ6 the triplets will be more than enough for a couple of years of deepsky, and is versatile enough to use with a barlow and a planetary camera like the 462mc for sun, moon and planets. The triplets are excellent visual instruments too.
for the sponge ground problem, I made some round plates with spikes on the bottom with a washer welded on top of the round plate. Works very well on grass surface or gravel areas
Nice review Nico. As always, you take the time to evaluate many different aspects of a product. Really enjoy your channel. Dr B from Manitoba, Canada 🇨🇦
Nico, I solved my spongy ground problem with 3 bricks. 3 big bricks to set the tripod upon. Adding more weight to an already heavy setup to haul around is a bit depressing, but it really helped bring up my percentage of keepers.
Thank you for pointing out that the radial warped stars came from back focus, because I am facing the exact issue on my 70-300mm lens (not on the 70-200). Then I remembered that I changed the focus alignment of the lens inside the cam a few years ago because of the polarization filter I put on. :)
Solid review. I have an 81mm refractor and a C9.25 on a cgx. I do lust for a 130mm refractor but I had not thought about hitting the tripod and needing a pier. Good point.
Great video Nico! I've been working through exactly the same issues with a refractor of similar size, the Explore Scientific 127ED. The ASKAR looks like a very capable scope right out of the box. But, as you so capably show, as soon as a person connects a camera to a scope with the aim of getting good quality images, things like vignetting, sensor tilt, and incorrect back focus from a focal reducer / flattener become apparent. It would be great to get a video demonstrating how to estimate field curvature and sensor tilt, and how to reduce them significantly.
Hey Nico, not sure if it would work but maybe try using furniture slide disks under the tripod feet to help sinking. They offer wide disks that handle alot of weight and it would disperse the weight a bit more evenly.
Great video Nico. Your Channel has been my go to for info in this Hobby. I am 40 years old and got my first telescope 2 Christmas ago from my parents Meade130EQ(Bird jones)w smartphone adapter. Needless to say when I produced a shot of Orion I was hooked and 6 months later picked out my version of "The Gateway Drug" (EOS M6 Mkii + Star Adventurer 2i Pro) 2 months later we slapped an SV503 and matching flattener. Like a noob we were pushing the limits of the 2i but with good balance and PA with 30sec subs we were blown away when we seen the first stacked and stretched Orion. in Photoshop Thanks to your tutorials. Thank You so much for sharing your knowledge of this fun and satisfying hobby. My wife is doing it with me so we watch you, Trevor, and Cuiv all the time. We now have an HEQ5P and Apertura 8RC Carbon, and let me tell you at 1624mm its a whole different ball game like you said. Guiding is mandatory and now I have to find videos on RC ins and outs. Sorry for the Novel folks its my first outreach. Rest of my comments will be shorter. I don't know where else to put it. Clear Skies... Hopefully ;)
Thanks for going in to the big telescope adventure for us, for the eq6-r, I suggest the ioptron pier with EQ6-R adapter, massively helped me with my FLT132 with 15kg!
My father owns an Astophysics 180mm refractor and one of their mounts. Was able to take pics with it a few times. Nothing can or ever will compare in quality. I display those pictures with pride.
GREAT video! I have been running a Skywatcher 100ED (Doublet with the accessory SW flatener-reducer) for a couple of years and am always tempted to step up to a slightly larger triplet. Money is not the concern it was 2 years ago when I picked up the 100ED and TBH I can sell my used 100ED for 50% more than I paid for it back then so...this video is very relevant to my current conundrum
Hi Nico, this was a great choice for a video topic. My 80mm apo AP results are nowhere near in your league, but it hasn't stopped me wondering about getting a bigger frac. If I'm honest I know I have room to improve with my existing setup before going big on the glass. Thanks for sharing the possibilities. Graham
Excellent video Nico. Watching this was like watching my last 7-years wrapped up into 3 minutes. I know you like to travel to dark sites rather hang out in your backyard but if you do stay at home there are things to make it a lot easier which you are probably aware of. I have three cement squares perfectly aligned and leveled to the north for my tripod legs - no sinking (I have a scope buggy which I set a brick under each leg position of the scope buggy base and that rests on the cement squares). The 8" extender makes a big difference as well so the equipment never hits the tripod - even beyond 90 degrees. - Cheers Kurt
I love that I understand every word that you say, even if I am not a native English speaker and I am hardly 100% fluent. And if I don't understand a word, is because I did not know it, like "surmised". Excellent video, by the way. Thanks.
Hi Nico I have had the exact same issues with my ES127 it’s taken me a year to figure that out including mount upgrades, OAG, back spacing, threaded adapters been a nightmare! I have a flattener but non reducing so will try that too. Out of all these the best thing I did was getting rid of the compression ring and use threaded adapters that showed the best improvements. Great video!
Nico, I just purchased an Orion EON 130 mm telescope and I appreciate the information about large refractors. Based on your video, I'm building a wind break from a large metal deck tarp I just retired. Also, thanks for sharing about adding 1/3 the thickness of my filter to the focus back plane. I'd never heard that before.
Nice review! According to the Sharpstar benchmarks the spot diagram with the 0.7 reducer is actually better on Full frame than the stock configuration. Your observation seems to match, of course the trade-off is that now you need to worry about backfocus :). Seems the PHQ lines has been very well engineered. I have the 107phq which I 100% recommend.
Great astrophotographers like you I'll always enjoy. You've taught me, and others I've turned on to you a great deal. I just realize that when you get a taste for the high end stuff, that minimalist teaching drifts into the background. Peter Zelinka, Trevor Jones etc. I just made (what to me) is a major leap with Asiair and StarAdventurer GTI. From original SA. and MSM. Stay humble my friend.
Nico, I love the video. I'm glad to see you working with some new/bigger equipment. Very educational. I hope this doesn't mean you will stop working with wider field scopes. Sometimes content providers outgrow their viewers. I hope you will do some of each. Keep up the great work!
Wow! Thank you. As a beginner in a vacuum, in that I am too far away from any astro-imagers, you have hit my wheelhouse. I have been struggling with 7% usable frames with my Stellarvu130 on an AVX for a year. Your observations of your issues with the 130 validates my frustrating journey; bad stars, streaked stars, bad guiding,1 hour meridian flips, impossible zenith imaging, etc. This 32# rig with the guide scope
@@goatsuukerhill Good balance, keep the legs on the tripod all the way down, invest in an OAG to lose some weight (might get you better guiding too.) Also, a reducer will help a lot. Try to stress the mount as little as possible. You’re likely wearing it out faster than normal, so treat it well.
@@tbardoni5065 Thanks tbardoni. I do get higher % of useable frames, maybe 30%, with a FR but the narrower FOV with 910mm is nice for small objects.I did not consider that I am wearing out the mount! I would love to upgrade to a 50-60# capacity mount, but…….
I use the Celestron anit-vibration pads to spread the leg weight on soft ground, so maybe give those a try. Great to see you got a good image in the end!
I run a surveyors tripod in the field, it’s designed for soft ground. It has a place on each leg to step on it and drive it down hard, then level. If it works for their equipment it will work for ours. These tripods are affordable and robust, Rona/Home Depot purchase $100.
I have a 152mm Meade AR6. First time I put it on my NEQ6 it looked so oversized from even the 150mm Newt I had on it! For mount stability get some 6x6 tiles from the hardware store, they will displace the weight evenly. And yes, you'll need a pier extension! The other issue with big/long refractors is cable lengths and placement can require all new versions if experience is with fast/small apertures. The reason beginners find swapping from the long focal lengths down to short/fast refractors is 'easy' can also stem from the mount being less strained by a good bit and the FOV being extremely forgiving in showing any but the worst aberrations and errors. As I have SCTs, the 152 doesn't get used these days nearly so much since an 8" F/6.3 at 1280mm is nearly the same FOV but with much more resolution and no need to use an extension.
I have an Orion EON 130 @ 910mm fl on a 6R Pro and have had the exact same issues. To stop the mount from sinking, I put 2inch thick landscape/patio tiles under the tripod legs and a piece 1/4 foam rubber because the legs will slide too easily across the stone and for antivibration. I have an entire routine to get great tracking but I don't think there's enough room in the comment section to explain it all lol. But I "usually" get between. 35 to .50ish for tracking ... usually. Over all I love my too big telescope. Thanks for the video
regarding "spongy ground". I don't recommend placing the tripod on bare ground with it's spiky legs. What I do is place a small slab of wood or concrete tile underneath each leg to increase the surface area touching the ground and completely prevent the tripod from sinking into the ground. But over time the slabs will sink a little bit into the ground and if you have your setup outside for multiple days I would check the polar alignment each day if it changes.
My favorite pieces of astro equipment are... . Observatory 23' toy hauler The toy hauler would be too big for your car, but an astro utility trailer makes going to a star party, or remote area for dark skys so much easier, you will go more often. And not run out of room for larger needed equipment. (Sky box)
Excellent capture and yes, that is an amazing scope. Out of my price range but a good one indeed. I did just purchase an EON 130 APO from Orion today so the aperture is the same, just hope the quality is what everyone says it is. I have high hopes, anyway great shot and thank you for sharing your experiences with us.
I use the plastic plates used under scaffolding poles to stop them sinking into the ground. About 10 inches square and an inch thick, fairly light weight and yellow , so you can't forget them.
Hey Nico good to see you man. not sure if you remember me telling you I live in fort Myers or not. but dude after we got smashed by that hurricane we had some of the clearest darkest skies I've seen in fort Myers yet. because all the power was out and the storm sort of cleared the skies of all the clouds and stuff. crazy stuff man. But we're getting back to normal here and I can't wait to get my scope back out there.
At 6.40, for avoiding the sinking tripod, you should try the Harley stand stabilizers disks, they're cheap and should be very efficient with their conception (narrowing rails).
Enjoy the video I can relate with challenging weather issues . I didn’t realize even clear nights still upper altitudes had wind plus with cameras taking ton of photos eating cloud space. Enjoyed video
I have a 150mm C6-N Newtonian I bought as a newbie and sent it to OWL or Optical Wave Laboratories for a recoat that included the secondary to 96-97% reflectivity for $85 and they checked my mirror and for $280 would refigure it to .95 Strehl and 1/10th wave so I went for it. Got it back at .98 Strehl ratio and 1/12th wave plus a higher reflectivity all for $365. Problem was I couldn't leave the old 1.25" focuser which was a bit wobbly so I bought a dual speed PMI Crayford 2" focuser that cost almost the same as the other work. So with shipping included for just under $800 I had Takahashi quality optics. I loaned it to a friend who is more into AP than I am and he got those background galaxies as well. Unfortunately OWL is no longer in business and the optical engineer went on to someone "who could pay him what he's worth" is what I was told when I called to get a quote on an 8" Newtonian.
Hi Nico, Bob again. Great vid and thanks for all the training. Got a question for ya. Let’s think outside-the-box for just a second, leave “popular belief” in the past, and take a photo in (TIFF) mode/compression. I know this probably causes one to get apprehensive but the main advantage of shooting in (TIFF/JPEG) is that those files record accurate colors, where (RAW) doesn’t. And I don’t know if you’ve noticed but perhaps 95% of RAW post processing involves color correction. Not only that but your starting with the correct rendering of a scene/object with “the unspeakable file”. What’s the problem with (TIFF)? Thanks Nico.
Would be a great video to compare f5 150mm or 130mm newt. Lot of dollars and weight in that scope where a newt may be lighter and cheaper. I have a SW quattro 150 with coma corrector/ reducer for $600 and I love it.
had a 130 APO Zeiss scope, and you have perfectly identified the main difficulties : mobility, weight (scope + mount + tripod + accessories) and the quality of the site. That said, the spectacle of the Orion nebula or Jupiter in visual or not, makes you forget everything.
Been working on my “bigger rig” for over a year and am still working on that first video. So I totally appreciate your comments, Nico. Having your workhorse smaller refractor and a larger refractor for special projects is a great 1-2 combo. Clear skies, man!
How do you think the glass in this family of telescopes compares to something like a William optics or Esprit? I’m looking to grab something in between four and 500 mm and was looking at the esprit 80, FLT91, Starfield Gear 80. All four of those options have FPL 53 glass and I noticed that this one doesn’t list what it is I do like the look of it in the construction seem solid, but just wondering your first hand opinion
You talk about vignetting coming from the M48 adapter. I have a full frame Sony camera with a similar scope (F7.8 125mm) but with an M42 adapter, so experienced vignetting, so went up to the M48 adapter, less vignetting but still there. Too annoyed by this, I wrote a FOV model in Python. Turns out my vignetting is not coming from the M48 adapter (unless you were using a really long M48 adapter), but its actually the small inner diameter of the Sony E-mount (37mm only). Now I'm hesitating to go for a newer Sony or go for Canon R / Nikon Z7. Will have no vignetting with the Nikon Z-mount, the Z-ring is huge.
Thank you for the great review Nico! - So many well-made and explained points about the advantages/disadvantages of bigger scopes too, very fair! The scope looks like a winner - great performance, especially when paired with the reducer. - Can't wait to see what you make next! Clear skies! :-)
Stability on any kind of ground can be increased by placing 'pads' under your tripod feet. For your scope I'd try 6" metal disks/squares about 1/2" thick with 3/4 to 1" holes in the center for the tripod foot to fit in so it wouldn't slip around but still be sitting on the pad. Scuffing the ground up (If allowed where you are at) and then 'setting' (sledge hammer or... driving over them with your car lol) the pads in place so they don't settle will give you very stable footing. (Alternatively you could scope the site out beforehand and drive 6" wooden posts in the ground to refusal at each foot location and pour quick set concrete caps and have ZERO settling... :)
Not 100% but I think the main advantage is optical speed. Most RCs work in the f8+ range, while refractors, like Nico said in this video run at 1/2 that. You can gain that speed back with a regular Newt, but your trade off is gonna be size.
@@racpa5 Fast glass=your sons tuition. Fast mirror not so much, but have something big to transport it and the big daddy mount for it to ride on. If you are just getting started, do what Nico says, shoot with what you have. Take a camera out with a nifty 50 on it, slap it on a tripod and shoot Orion, shoot Cygnus, shoot Cassiopeia. There are tons of beautiful compositions that you can do with a short focal length. Learn the sky, and how to process before you drop thousands of dollars on gear. I have always said astrophotography is 5% gear 10% time, and 85% skill in the editor of your choice.
Good scope and nice wide field of focused view. How would you compare this Askar 130 PHQ to the Askar 140 APO + Field flattener 0.8x ? The 130PHQ does have a wide 60mm imaging field but is the 140APO better for viewing+imaging?
I would love to get into astrophotography, but I'm afraid I'll be wasting my money as train tracks, which are over 1 mile away, vibrate my house foundations. But I'm thinking of getting a Nikon D850. I think it's 34mb, and a Nikon 300mm f2.8 and a x2 and x 1.4 lens zoom adaptors which will make a 1024mm f9.52 lens and if it doesn't work I haven't wasted my money.
Newbie here and question about the issue you mentioned at 15:49, does this affect all types of refractor setups equally? Or is it something that was more noticeable because this was a particularly large telescope?
Getting the correct backspace when using a reducer is important whichever scope you use. It's fairly easy to solve depending on how fussy you want to be! look at your subs - if they look OK to you don't worry & carry on!
Regarding 7:000 on backfocus and tilt... I got my backfocus right BUT some brutal backlash on the Esprit 100ED's stock focuser w/ Pegasus motor attached. I gotta compare my focuser to someone on CN and see if it's missing anything.
Nico…nice review. Questions about the scope. You look like a mobile astronomer like me. Since this 130PHQ and ZWO’s 130FF APO are carbon copies of each other I wondered if ASKAR did a better job of building their case? In particular, can you attach the ZWO EAF on the PHQ and put it away in the same case? I love my Askar V scope which CAN DO THAT. It even has a cutout in the case to just that. I’m a mobile astronomer and need the portability. Taking the EAF off to move every time would be a pain…small screws in the dark Etc. Also, no mount point for ASIAir on OTA cage with ZWO. Askar yes or no? Wondering? Thanks!
Been doing astro for a few years. I have the ES 127mm and Celestron EdgeHD 11” for my big scopes, and a Skywatcher 80mm. If I could do it over again, I’d save myself a ton of cash by going with the EdHD 11” for planetary and galaxy, and then buy the Starizone Hyperstar for nebulae work. Throw in a reducer and you have a really versatile set up. I really don’t see a downside to this combo. And again, the money saved is -astro-nomical.
Looking at your frustrations with tilt and back focus you’ve gone from easy to full on expert.. at the same time you’re having to deal with English weather, I’ve been building a deep sky Astro rig since June 2020 and only now am I seeking clear nights to go out and test.
A refractor of that size is ideal for a Backyard Observatory, meaning not a great portable material. Neither my arms are strong nor am I very young. I would consider a Maksutov0Cassegrain for that. With stellar specs for optics, it's oogle-worthy for sure. Love the patient review you give.
Same assessment here : for me, 100mm is the upper limit for a good quality, reasonably affordable, "grab & go" refractor. Beyond that, I will very likely turn to catadioptrics, because of the size and weight. The other reason is the price !
I took the hard road right off the bat. Have had a NextStar8 for about ten years, and for the majority, I've been simply observing. Then the AP bug got a hold of me about 2 years ago. Last year, I bought a Losmandy G11, an ASI 174, and a Celestron OAG. I have yet to do anything besides the sun, moon and Jupiter. Im behind the 8 ball bieng such a long focal length and bortle 9 skies here in Houston. Even on clear nights, polaris is invisible. Im really considering getting this scope. I really like my Nextstar and have seen the rsults of others using it. Om also only using a Canon 60D unmodified. So far my biggest fear is packing it all up, going to a dark location and finding out my technique is bad. I dont think it is because during the last eclipse, my tracking stayed centered, without guiding for almost 2 hours. It's just at night, my plate solving fails. Again im hoping it's due to bad seeing as opposed to bad technique.
Great video, I'm really impressed :) Nico, I would like to ask you if you have any videos on how to interpret pixinsight abberation analysis mosaic. I have weirdly shaped stars in the corner of my fullframe sensor when Iam using reducer and I would like to know how to interpret the shape of the stars. If I shoudl add to backfocus or remove from it. Thanks for your always GREAT videos :)
If it's backfocus all the stars will be elongated in the corners and this chart will help: cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1594/4815/files/Back_Focus_Spacing_Guide_1024x1024.jpg?v=1606528627 If it's tilt, they will be elongated more in some corners than the others. I'd suggest trying to fix backfocus first and then deal with tilt. Hope that helps.
@@NebulaPhotos Perfect! Chart like this is exactly what I needed. It looks the same in each corner and by looking at the chart, my sensor is too close. Stars are not so elongated, but more like teardrop shaped, but in the outwards direction and tip of the "drop" aiming to the center of the image.
Excellent coverage on the topic of larger scope challenges. You’ll see a lot of guys with heavy rigs with the tripod feet on blocks. That’s a nice looking scope. I’ve learned there’s a limit to how much aperture I can reasonably use. My atmosphere just doesn’t permit large scopes like C9.25’s. I have the jet stream and ocean air to deal with. This is a good video. Really enjoyed it.
The air wiggles every bit as much in a small scope as a large one, it's just that you're not seeing the sky well enough to notice with the smaller scope. The difficulty with using something like a SCT for astrophotography is in the focal length rather than the aperture. You're looking at a tiny slice of the sky with a C9.25 (~2300mm) vs a typical 400mm or shorter focal length small refractor. Taking images with something like a RASA or a very fast reflector (let's say an 800mm focal length, a typical 8" Newtonian astrograph) isn't that much smaller a field of view, but you get both more light collection and better resolution. The resolution might still be limited by seeing if you're right at the edge of what you could see with a 400mm, but it's not going to produce an image that's worse than the 400mm zoomed in 2x.
Nico, thanks so much for all the great information you share! Quick question, is adding a spacer for compensation of filter necessary always? Just curious, for example, using a filter drawer and swapping in empty tray for full bandwidth. Would one need to add/remove the spacer each time the filter tray was swapped with/without filter? My field flattener requires 55mm which I have but wasn’t sure if compensation for filter is also necessary. 15:51 Thank you!
Beautiful final image. Well done! Also very good troubleshooting the challenges. I'm often disappointed at some Astro forums where a lot of less knowledgeable folk immediately criticize telescopes when in reality, its operator error. There's a lot of pixel peeping too, .... Anyhow nice job. Thanks for posting. Kind regards! (As for the answer to the title: yes. I like smaller apertures, 6" SCTs, small apo-refractors. 60" is a lot of bang for the money. Small pixel camera .... For great detail, I download the great images of NASA or the Euro Space Agency. Their telescopes are tops.)
Hello! I want to assemble a spotting scope with a good viewing angle, fast aperture and 60x magnification. There are 2 achromat lenses to choose from: 1) diameter 100mm F600mm 2) diameter 100mm F900mm Eyepieces: 1) Celestron f10mm 50⁰ 2) Celestron f15mm 50⁰ respectively Question: In which option at a magnification of 60x will there be a better viewing angle and detail Thanks
I am not the best person to ask (I don't do a lot of visual astronomy), but I believe that you should go for the slower scope with the wider eyepiece based on your criteria.
Nico, I've only recently started really following your channel. So, let me ask you a question. A 130mm scope is rather large, heavy, and prone to the issues you've spoken about. So, why not something like a 6" R.C.? Yes, I will grant you that a 6" R.C. is probably going to have a focal length almost twice that of what this scope with the 0.7x reducer on it is, but it's lighter in weight, shouldn't give you the wind sail effect that something like this does. It should, I would think, ride a little bit better on something like an EQ6-R Pro, plus, you should be able to do zenith photography better with it. The downsides, of course, is collimation, but my understanding is that once a R.C. is collimated, it isn't going to require it anywhere as near much as a Newtonian reflector, which seems to require it once a night before use, and twice on Saturdays. As to spongy ground. Cut yourself three 2' x 2' x5/8" pieces of plywood, sand, prime and paint. Cut a hole into the center of the sheet, but not all the way through that will accomodate the Celestron/Meade vibration pads. You can also use two 3/8" pieces, with the hole drilled completely through one and then both screwed/glued together. Setting the tripod on this gives you vibration control and spreads the weight out over 12 square feet of space, preventing the drop into spongy ground.
Hello Nico, I am wondering how far away from Boston you are that you have coyotes in your area. I live up in Maine and used to deliver in the Boston area almost daily. I would love to drive down there for a visit during an imaging session sometime. You are a top notch teacher and I appreciate your videos. Thank You.
Nice vídeo brother. Hey I live in Boston too, could you recommend good places to stargazing in MA. Im new on the hobby and having some trouble to find a good spot. Lol.
A fave spot for me is Ninigret Park / Frosty Drew Observatory in Charlestown, RI. Open all night on the weekends and plenty of space. In Mass, you can join the astro clubs to get access to private fields or go to the beaches in Cape Cod. Lots of spots in New Hampshire as well. Email me if you want more specific: nicocarver at gmail
Just pulled the trigger and ordered one. I also got the reducer and pier extension for my eq6r pro (thanks for the warning btw!!!) Im sorta anxious to see how good it really is... Its the most Ive spent on a scope and there arent many reviews for the 130 and how good it really is, not just what the website says. I feel like a astro test subject lol
I remember when i first got my Astro Tech 130EDT I was like... holy crap telescopes are way bigger in person. I didn't find imaging with it that much harder than with my smaller scopes.. just have to be a bit more mindful of set up and your conditions.
Have you ever seen any of the SharpStar scopes? They have some compelling statistics, but that doesn't necessarily translate to good performance in the real world, of course. The thing that got my attention was that the image circle is big enough to cover a Fuji medium format sensor, at f/2.8.
This actually is a sharpstar scope. Sharpstar is the parent company for Askar, and they also supply telescopes for many other brands like Apertura, Radian, Astro-tech, TS-optics, etc
Great video thanks. Thanks to one of your other videos comparing an Orion, SVbony & Askar 80mm refractors, I am getting the Askar 80PHQ as my first astrophotography telescope Although I'm not sure how good it will be for planetary images. I currently have a Celestron 130SLT. One question. Is Adobe Photoshop Elements sufficient for deepsky manipulation (Levels, curves etc)? I don't really want to pay a monthly sub. I was amazed when you said you added a 1mm spacer for backfocus. I didn't realise they could be that thin.
Keep exploring at brilliant.org/NebulaPhotos/ Get started for free, and hurry-the first 200 people get 20% off an annual premium subscription.
No
gorgeous image...
If you look at what ESA & NASA are using the answer is clearly no, as far as amateurs go anyway.
I am sure there will be a finite limit due to how slowly light travels when you scale things up,
i have a Officina Stellare 152mm f8 APO triplet 1200mm fl and a f8 flat field lens that I use on my AP 1100 mount. At home it is out in open on a pier on my patio. Auto guiding is done through a 70mm refractor. Software for capture and autoguiding is Maxim DL. For remote use I use a Meade Giant Field tripod that is modified and sitting on pieces of plywood to avoid sinking in ground. I have no problem getting pin point round stars in long exposures even with single exposure times of 30-45 minutes through narrow band filters. I some times have a bit of wind but generally any scope will have an issue with wind. I found the secret is to remove any slop in mount, telescope attachment and guider mount. Also the setting numbers for the autoguider are critical. My camera is a fuill frame mono SBIG. I also sometimes use my Officina Stellare 80mm f6 APO triplet refractot in the same setup but no flat field lens. Yes I am sure wind would be less of an issue with the smaller scope but frankly it is not night and day. ONE VERY important item is to not place counter weighs far out on the counter weight shaft. Add more weight and move all weights as close as you can to the mount. If you don't do this the mount will ping-pong trying to work against gravity effects and the long lever arm effect of the weights if far out on the counter shaft. Also setting a longer delay between guider images will help minimize that ping pong effect. A longer exposure for autoguiding will also prevent you from chasing seeing issues. If you get egg or non round stars this is where it is coming from. Much of this info was suggested to me years ago by Roland Christen owner of Astro Physics.
Reflecting back on my earlier comments above and this video. The BIG take away is that many imagers don't take the time to achieve the correct BACK FOCUS distance through their image train. In addition to fine tuning with thin spacers to achieve the correct back focus, a method to tilt the focal plane is very important. Some camera brands take the time to get this plane parrallel for each individual camera (my SBIG comes to mind). Others just send the camera out with it as good as they can get. Other brands like my ZWO camera have a tilting adjust ability included in the camera body design. Different brands of cameras and even from model to model within a brand will have different back focus. Generally this is specified in the specs so if you use filters ALWAYS use a filter even if you don't need one. In that case just put a clear filter in the filer wheel or filter drawer for testing and optimizing your setup.
Finally.....a big heavy refractor needs a large heavy duty mount to give good results. Trying to use a big refractor on an undersized mount will result in a lot of headaches and never give the results you want. In that case it is much better to stay with a smaller aperture refractor (but still with a very good mount). For astrophotography the mount is more important than the scope. My travel setup is a 80mm refractor on a ZWO AM5.....that gives outstanding results but the image from the 6" refractor when all is optimized is far superior to the image of that 80mm. But that setup if a lot easier to setup and use remotely than my AP1100 and 6" APO refractor!
there are no such things as telescopes, which are too big, only mounts, that are too small.
True wisdom
Seriously. If one can afford a large Planewave then it should be purchased. The galaxy images with those rival Hubble
@@glennsmooth If only I had that much money😭
@@glennsmooth I read that as planet wide. How would you mount that though
@@InvadersDie in a observatory 💀
That final image is absolutely amazing. Nice job!
Great video. My ground is mushy when wet. I solved that, but it takes moving extra gear for every use unless the gear can be left on site for as many days / nights as needed to gather the amount of data desired.
I made a simple triangular base of plywood and lumber which fits the tripod feet when the tripod legs are extended. The plywood and 2x4 lumber are glued and screwed together and they're sturdy and durable. The tripod feet fit on the base top, which is made a little larger than the extended tripod legs. Before setting the tripod on the base I put down flat plywood disks of a diameter (8 " or 10" or 12" ) whatever it takes to give the wet ground stability when loaded with the tripod, scope etc.
To level the triangular base I fitted the base (at the points of the trianle with t-nuts and all threads in a way that allows a very precise leveling adjustment of the base. It's not hard at all to accomplish leveling. The disks go on the ground and screwing the all threads lift / lower the base until its level. I put wing nuts on the top of each all thread which makes leveling the base quick, easy and tool less.
To help compress the ground I often set a heavy weight (I beam or railroad steel etc) on top of the base and leave the weight there for several dalight hours. Of course I remove the compression weight just a minute before mounting the tripod onto the plywood base.
The property is mine so I salted the grass where the disks go on the ground. That way I can set the base on the exact same spot every time very quickly.
While installing the base / disks the first time I used a compass and aligned the South side of the tripod East and West. That points one tripod leg North so I don't have to align the base "every time" I set the tripod up for a session. Doing that also decreases the amount of time needed for adjusting for finding polaris to maybe 5 minutes. Oh, and I drilled divots on the base top so the feet also fit in the same place every time.
To me it's worth the materials and moving the disks and base onto the location because it makes setup a lot more efficient when I use the same location a lot.
I hope this comment helps someone.
Great video Nico, a very nice instrument and a stunning result! I hope you dont mind me making a couple of minor points on the review.
1. I use an Orion EON 130ED on an EQ6 (almost identical physical size and weight). Every observing session I single handedly transport, set up and use it, despite an above knee leg amputation, prosthetic leg and a paralysed dominant hand. If I can do it, then any able-bodied person can. Its true you can make easier or harder choices as you prefer, and getting it right calls for a realistic self-assessment of one's enthusiasm, but I don't think that couch potatoes with too much money deserve to be constantly warned about lovely big telescopes like this! Just let them buy the stuff if they want it, and offload it later if its wrong for them. That helps to stimulate the market, and makes gear available at more affordable prices for the real active enthusiasts.
2. I reliably get 1.5 arcsec rms guiding with an Orion 50mm Mini guidescope and an asi120MM (unless its windy). This is close to the atmospheric stability limit in 'good' seeing (1"-2") and the Rayleigh/Dawes limits (1.2"/0.9") for a 5 inch refractor, so I'd say an OAG isn't at all necessary especially at f/7 (or f/5.6 reduced). A piggyback setup is a $200 saving and is easier to setup.
3. The Askar is a very good quadruplet astrograph specialised for full frame photography at a premium price. A definite contender for serious RGB & narrowband work on nebulae. At $4K vs $2.6K (Q3 2022 prices) for an Orion, Explore Scientific, or Skywatcher 5" APO any of the triplets is better suited to intermediate/beginners (with an as yet unformed and roving interest). If matched to a small sensor OSC camera like the asi533mc pro on an EQ6 the triplets will be more than enough for a couple of years of deepsky, and is versatile enough to use with a barlow and a planetary camera like the 462mc for sun, moon and planets. The triplets are excellent visual instruments too.
Great valid points.
for the sponge ground problem, I made some round plates with spikes on the bottom with a washer welded on top of the round plate. Works very well on grass surface or gravel areas
Nice review Nico. As always, you take the time to evaluate many different aspects of a product. Really enjoy your channel. Dr B from Manitoba, Canada 🇨🇦
Thanks Dr. B!
Nico, I solved my spongy ground problem with 3 bricks. 3 big bricks to set the tripod upon. Adding more weight to an already heavy setup to haul around is a bit depressing, but it really helped bring up my percentage of keepers.
Thank you for pointing out that the radial warped stars came from back focus, because I am facing the exact issue on my 70-300mm lens (not on the 70-200). Then I remembered that I changed the focus alignment of the lens inside the cam a few years ago because of the polarization filter I put on. :)
Solid review. I have an 81mm refractor and a C9.25 on a cgx. I do lust for a 130mm refractor but I had not thought about hitting the tripod and needing a pier. Good point.
Great video Nico! I've been working through exactly the same issues with a refractor of similar size, the Explore Scientific 127ED. The ASKAR looks like a very capable scope right out of the box. But, as you so capably show, as soon as a person connects a camera to a scope with the aim of getting good quality images, things like vignetting, sensor tilt, and incorrect back focus from a focal reducer / flattener become apparent. It would be great to get a video demonstrating how to estimate field curvature and sensor tilt, and how to reduce them significantly.
Hey Nico, not sure if it would work but maybe try using furniture slide disks under the tripod feet to help sinking. They offer wide disks that handle alot of weight and it would disperse the weight a bit more evenly.
Old trick from Thomas Heaton, use old CD-R disks.
Great video Nico. Your Channel has been my go to for info in this Hobby. I am 40 years old and got my first telescope 2 Christmas ago from my parents Meade130EQ(Bird jones)w smartphone adapter. Needless to say when I produced a shot of Orion I was hooked and 6 months later picked out my version of "The Gateway Drug" (EOS M6 Mkii + Star Adventurer 2i Pro) 2 months later we slapped an SV503 and matching flattener. Like a noob we were pushing the limits of the 2i but with good balance and PA with 30sec subs we were blown away when we seen the first stacked and stretched Orion. in Photoshop Thanks to your tutorials. Thank You so much for sharing your knowledge of this fun and satisfying hobby. My wife is doing it with me so we watch you, Trevor, and Cuiv all the time. We now have an HEQ5P and Apertura 8RC Carbon, and let me tell you at 1624mm its a whole different ball game like you said. Guiding is mandatory and now I have to find videos on RC ins and outs. Sorry for the Novel folks its my first outreach. Rest of my comments will be shorter. I don't know where else to put it. Clear Skies... Hopefully ;)
I'm going to go ahead and answer the question: no.
Thanks for going in to the big telescope adventure for us, for the eq6-r, I suggest the ioptron pier with EQ6-R adapter, massively helped me with my FLT132 with 15kg!
Which adapter did you use to attach the Eq6-r pro to the ioptron tripier? Could you please share the name or product number? Thanks!
My father owns an Astophysics 180mm refractor and one of their mounts. Was able to take pics with it a few times. Nothing can or ever will compare in quality. I display those pictures with pride.
Awesome review, Nico! And wonderful final image!
GREAT video! I have been running a Skywatcher 100ED (Doublet with the accessory SW flatener-reducer) for a couple of years and am always tempted to step up to a slightly larger triplet. Money is not the concern it was 2 years ago when I picked up the 100ED and TBH I can sell my used 100ED for 50% more than I paid for it back then so...this video is very relevant to my current conundrum
Hi Nico, this was a great choice for a video topic. My 80mm apo AP results are nowhere near in your league, but it hasn't stopped me wondering about getting a bigger frac. If I'm honest I know I have room to improve with my existing setup before going big on the glass. Thanks for sharing the possibilities. Graham
Really cool Nico! Beautiful image with this monster.
Wow, what a great final image!!!
Thanks Dino!
Excellent video Nico. Watching this was like watching my last 7-years wrapped up into 3 minutes. I know you like to travel to dark sites rather hang out in your backyard but if you do stay at home there are things to make it a lot easier which you are probably aware of. I have three cement squares perfectly aligned and leveled to the north for my tripod legs - no sinking (I have a scope buggy which I set a brick under each leg position of the scope buggy base and that rests on the cement squares). The 8" extender makes a big difference as well so the equipment never hits the tripod - even beyond 90 degrees. - Cheers Kurt
I love that I understand every word that you say, even if I am not a native English speaker and I am hardly 100% fluent. And if I don't understand a word, is because I did not know it, like "surmised".
Excellent video, by the way. Thanks.
Hi Nico I have had the exact same issues with my ES127 it’s taken me a year to figure that out including mount upgrades, OAG, back spacing, threaded adapters been a nightmare! I have a flattener but non reducing so will try that too. Out of all these the best thing I did was getting rid of the compression ring and use threaded adapters that showed the best improvements. Great video!
Nico, I just purchased an Orion EON 130 mm telescope and I appreciate the information about large refractors. Based on your video, I'm building a wind break from a large metal deck tarp I just retired. Also, thanks for sharing about adding 1/3 the thickness of my filter to the focus back plane. I'd never heard that before.
For the spongy ground problem try the Losmandy vibration pads. 5 inches in diameter and glow in the dark to reduce tripping hazards.
Nice review! According to the Sharpstar benchmarks the spot diagram with the 0.7 reducer is actually better on Full frame than the stock configuration. Your observation seems to match, of course the trade-off is that now you need to worry about backfocus :).
Seems the PHQ lines has been very well engineered. I have the 107phq which I 100% recommend.
Very informative video with superb result, Nico!
Great astrophotographers like you I'll always enjoy. You've taught me, and others I've turned on to you a great deal. I just realize that when you get a taste for the high end stuff, that minimalist teaching drifts into the background. Peter Zelinka, Trevor Jones etc. I just made (what to me) is a major leap with Asiair and StarAdventurer GTI. From original SA. and MSM. Stay humble my friend.
Well said, thanks Mike
That final image is incredible and quite inspiring for a beginner like me. Thank you.
Nico, I love the video. I'm glad to see you working with some new/bigger equipment. Very educational. I hope this doesn't mean you will stop working with wider field scopes. Sometimes content providers outgrow their viewers. I hope you will do some of each. Keep up the great work!
Great video Nico! Informative and easy for us newbies to follow. Thank you!
Wow! Thank you. As a beginner in a vacuum, in that I am too far away from any astro-imagers, you have hit my wheelhouse. I have been struggling with 7% usable frames with my Stellarvu130 on an AVX for a year. Your observations of your issues with the 130 validates my frustrating journey; bad stars, streaked stars, bad guiding,1 hour meridian flips, impossible zenith imaging, etc. This 32# rig with the guide scope
Oops sent prior to finishing, anyway you have somewhat relieved my feelings of such a failure. Thanks Warren
A 130mm on an AVX? I ‘d think you’re over the weight limit of that mount.
@@tbardoni5065 The AVX weight recommendation is 30#. SO, based on the 50% rule, I am 17# over limit. That does not help.
@@goatsuukerhill Good balance, keep the legs on the tripod all the way down, invest in an OAG to lose some weight (might get you better guiding too.) Also, a reducer will help a lot.
Try to stress the mount as little as possible. You’re likely wearing it out faster than normal, so treat it well.
@@tbardoni5065 Thanks tbardoni. I do get higher % of useable frames, maybe 30%, with a FR but the narrower FOV with 910mm is nice for small objects.I did not consider that I am wearing out the mount! I would love to upgrade to a 50-60# capacity mount, but…….
I use the Celestron anit-vibration pads to spread the leg weight on soft ground, so maybe give those a try. Great to see you got a good image in the end!
I run a surveyors tripod in the field, it’s designed for soft ground. It has a place on each leg to step on it and drive it down hard, then level. If it works for their equipment it will work for ours. These tripods are affordable and robust, Rona/Home Depot purchase $100.
Just to let you know, yours is one of my favorite captures of the Angler Fish! ❤❤
Thanks Geoffrey! :)
I have a 152mm Meade AR6. First time I put it on my NEQ6 it looked so oversized from even the 150mm Newt I had on it!
For mount stability get some 6x6 tiles from the hardware store, they will displace the weight evenly. And yes, you'll need a pier extension!
The other issue with big/long refractors is cable lengths and placement can require all new versions if experience is with fast/small apertures.
The reason beginners find swapping from the long focal lengths down to short/fast refractors is 'easy' can also stem from the mount being less strained by a good bit and the FOV being extremely forgiving in showing any but the worst aberrations and errors.
As I have SCTs, the 152 doesn't get used these days nearly so much since an 8" F/6.3 at 1280mm is nearly the same FOV but with much more resolution and no need to use an extension.
I have an Orion EON 130 @ 910mm fl on a 6R Pro and have had the exact same issues. To stop the mount from sinking, I put 2inch thick landscape/patio tiles under the tripod legs and a piece 1/4 foam rubber because the legs will slide too easily across the stone and for antivibration. I have an entire routine to get great tracking but I don't think there's enough room in the comment section to explain it all lol. But I "usually" get between. 35 to .50ish for tracking ... usually. Over all I love my too big telescope. Thanks for the video
Outstanding Nico, I love to see you use a Newt 10 inch reflector 1000 mm FL f/3.9, compared to your refactor
I am seeing such a big refractor for the first time, is it normal? I am more used to Dobsonian/Newtonian telescopes.
regarding "spongy ground". I don't recommend placing the tripod on bare ground with it's spiky legs. What I do is place a small slab of wood or concrete tile underneath each leg to increase the surface area touching the ground and completely prevent the tripod from sinking into the ground. But over time the slabs will sink a little bit into the ground and if you have your setup outside for multiple days I would check the polar alignment each day if it changes.
My favorite pieces of astro equipment are... .
Observatory
23' toy hauler
The toy hauler would be too big for your car, but an astro utility trailer makes going to a star party, or remote area for dark skys so much easier, you will go more often. And not run out of room for larger needed equipment. (Sky box)
With all the money he makes off these videos, he can afford a Mercedes sprinter van.
Excellent capture and yes, that is an amazing scope. Out of my price range but a good one indeed. I did just purchase an EON 130 APO from Orion today so the aperture is the same, just hope the quality is what everyone says it is. I have high hopes, anyway great shot and thank you for sharing your experiences with us.
Great image. How sturdy is the rotator? Tilt could come from there. How dark was your sky?
Wow, nice challenge to add to my list, thanks Nico!
I use the plastic plates used under scaffolding poles to stop them sinking into the ground. About 10 inches square and an inch thick, fairly light weight and yellow , so you can't forget them.
Pretty spiffy Nico! The detail is amazing. Nice work.
0:31 love the transition
That image is amazing, the stuff of dreams. Well done.
nice Schwartzschild-radius shirt!
Will this scope cover medium format sensors? Fuji GFX 50r? The 3.5 focuser seems like it would.
Good question, but I don't have a medium format camera to test unfortunately.
Hey Nico good to see you man. not sure if you remember me telling you I live in fort Myers or not. but dude after we got smashed by that hurricane we had some of the clearest darkest skies I've seen in fort Myers yet. because all the power was out and the storm sort of cleared the skies of all the clouds and stuff. crazy stuff man. But we're getting back to normal here and I can't wait to get my scope back out there.
fantastic video by the way thank you so much for the content brother.
At 6.40, for avoiding the sinking tripod, you should try the Harley stand stabilizers disks, they're cheap and should be very efficient with their conception (narrowing rails).
Enjoy the video I can relate with challenging weather issues . I didn’t realize even clear nights still upper altitudes had wind plus with cameras taking ton of photos eating cloud space.
Enjoyed video
I have a 150mm C6-N Newtonian I bought as a newbie and sent it to OWL or Optical Wave Laboratories for a recoat that included the secondary to 96-97% reflectivity for $85 and they checked my mirror and for $280 would refigure it to .95 Strehl and 1/10th wave so I went for it. Got it back at .98 Strehl ratio and 1/12th wave plus a higher reflectivity all for $365. Problem was I couldn't leave the old 1.25" focuser which was a bit wobbly so I bought a dual speed PMI Crayford 2" focuser that cost almost the same as the other work. So with shipping included for just under $800 I had Takahashi quality optics.
I loaned it to a friend who is more into AP than I am and he got those background galaxies as well. Unfortunately OWL is no longer in business and the optical engineer went on to someone "who could pay him what he's worth" is what I was told when I called to get a quote on an 8" Newtonian.
Hi Nico, Bob again. Great vid and thanks for all the training. Got a question for ya. Let’s think outside-the-box for just a second, leave “popular belief” in the past, and take a photo in (TIFF) mode/compression. I know this probably causes one to get apprehensive but the main advantage of shooting in (TIFF/JPEG) is that those files record accurate colors, where (RAW) doesn’t. And I don’t know if you’ve noticed but perhaps 95% of RAW post processing involves color correction. Not only that but your starting with the correct rendering of a scene/object with “the unspeakable file”. What’s the problem with (TIFF)? Thanks Nico.
Would be a great video to compare f5 150mm or 130mm newt. Lot of dollars and weight in that scope where a newt may be lighter and cheaper. I have a SW quattro 150 with coma corrector/ reducer for $600 and I love it.
I've been looking at the quatro as well. Do you need the Corrector for it or does it work without with a aps-c?
It absolutely needs a corrector. I use a asi585mc and it has a little vignetting. The star shapes are perfect though.
had a 130 APO Zeiss scope, and you have perfectly identified the main difficulties : mobility, weight (scope + mount + tripod + accessories) and the quality of the site. That said, the spectacle of the Orion nebula or Jupiter in visual or not, makes you forget everything.
Good one Niko! Always enjoy your efforts!
Thanks! Love the result of the image in the end 🤩👌👌
Been working on my “bigger rig” for over a year and am still working on that first video. So I totally appreciate your comments, Nico. Having your workhorse smaller refractor and a larger refractor for special projects is a great 1-2 combo. Clear skies, man!
My jaw dropped when I saw the background galaxies.. that is absolutely amazing
How do you think the glass in this family of telescopes compares to something like a William optics or Esprit?
I’m looking to grab something in between four and 500 mm and was looking at the esprit 80, FLT91, Starfield Gear 80. All four of those options have FPL 53 glass and I noticed that this one doesn’t list what it is I do like the look of it in the construction seem solid, but just wondering your first hand opinion
Excellent review, the Askars are excellent scopes!
Dude your channel is awesome!
Thanks!
You talk about vignetting coming from the M48 adapter. I have a full frame Sony camera with a similar scope (F7.8 125mm) but with an M42 adapter, so experienced vignetting, so went up to the M48 adapter, less vignetting but still there. Too annoyed by this, I wrote a FOV model in Python. Turns out my vignetting is not coming from the M48 adapter (unless you were using a really long M48 adapter), but its actually the small inner diameter of the Sony E-mount (37mm only). Now I'm hesitating to go for a newer Sony or go for Canon R / Nikon Z7. Will have no vignetting with the Nikon Z-mount, the Z-ring is huge.
Thank you for the great review Nico! - So many well-made and explained points about the advantages/disadvantages of bigger scopes too, very fair!
The scope looks like a winner - great performance, especially when paired with the reducer. - Can't wait to see what you make next!
Clear skies! :-)
Thanks Luke! It was a nice video to get me out of a mini-rut in terms of images I was excited about. Wishing you clear skies as well!
I got a decent size telescope, it's a Celestron 8se, saw Jupiter for the first time through it, was awesome, can't wait to see what else I can see.
Same here. Really awesome seeing planets for the first time.
Stability on any kind of ground can be increased by placing 'pads' under your tripod feet. For your scope I'd try 6" metal disks/squares about 1/2" thick with 3/4 to 1" holes in the center for the tripod foot to fit in so it wouldn't slip around but still be sitting on the pad. Scuffing the ground up (If allowed where you are at) and then 'setting' (sledge hammer or... driving over them with your car lol) the pads in place so they don't settle will give you very stable footing. (Alternatively you could scope the site out beforehand and drive 6" wooden posts in the ground to refusal at each foot location and pour quick set concrete caps and have ZERO settling... :)
Great video. Beginner question: what advantages do refractors have over something like a RC or other reflector telescope?
Not 100% but I think the main advantage is optical speed. Most RCs work in the f8+ range, while refractors, like Nico said in this video run at 1/2 that. You can gain that speed back with a regular Newt, but your trade off is gonna be size.
@@barrymak421 so a fast F stop with a very large mirror size = my son’s college tuition?
@@racpa5 Fast glass=your sons tuition. Fast mirror not so much, but have something big to transport it and the big daddy mount for it to ride on.
If you are just getting started, do what Nico says, shoot with what you have. Take a camera out with a nifty 50 on it, slap it on a tripod and shoot Orion, shoot Cygnus, shoot Cassiopeia. There are tons of beautiful compositions that you can do with a short focal length. Learn the sky, and how to process before you drop thousands of dollars on gear. I have always said astrophotography is 5% gear 10% time, and 85% skill in the editor of your choice.
Good scope and nice wide field of focused view. How would you compare this Askar 130 PHQ to the Askar 140 APO + Field flattener 0.8x ? The 130PHQ does have a wide 60mm imaging field but is the 140APO better for viewing+imaging?
I would love to get into astrophotography, but I'm afraid I'll be wasting my money as train tracks, which are over 1 mile away, vibrate my house foundations. But I'm thinking of getting a Nikon D850. I think it's 34mb, and a Nikon 300mm f2.8 and a x2 and x 1.4 lens zoom adaptors which will make a 1024mm f9.52 lens and if it doesn't work I haven't wasted my money.
Great final image - well worth it..
thats a pretty amazing picture. the detail on the dust is incredible.
Newbie here and question about the issue you mentioned at 15:49, does this affect all types of refractor setups equally? Or is it something that was more noticeable because this was a particularly large telescope?
Getting the correct backspace when using a reducer is important whichever scope you use. It's fairly easy to solve depending on how fussy you want to be!
look at your subs - if they look OK to you don't worry & carry on!
i enjoy your videos a lot. thanks for sharing.
Regarding 7:000 on backfocus and tilt... I got my backfocus right BUT some brutal backlash on the Esprit 100ED's stock focuser w/ Pegasus motor attached. I gotta compare my focuser to someone on CN and see if it's missing anything.
Amazing photo! Love your channel. I got the 80phq after watching your review on it. Clear sky's
Nico…nice review. Questions about the scope. You look like a mobile astronomer like me. Since this 130PHQ and ZWO’s 130FF APO are carbon copies of each other I wondered if ASKAR did a better job of building their case? In particular, can you attach the ZWO EAF on the PHQ and put it away in the same case? I love my Askar V scope which CAN DO THAT. It even has a cutout in the case to just that. I’m a mobile astronomer and need the portability. Taking the EAF off to move every time would be a pain…small screws in the dark Etc. Also, no mount point for ASIAir on OTA cage with ZWO. Askar yes or no? Wondering? Thanks!
Nice review Nico. The question comes up, again, a 130 mm refractor (like the AT130 is
Been doing astro for a few years. I have the ES 127mm and Celestron EdgeHD 11” for my big scopes, and a Skywatcher 80mm.
If I could do it over again, I’d save myself a ton of cash by going with the EdHD 11” for planetary and galaxy, and then buy the Starizone Hyperstar for nebulae work.
Throw in a reducer and you have a really versatile set up.
I really don’t see a downside to this combo. And again, the money saved is -astro-nomical.
Looking at your frustrations with tilt and back focus you’ve gone from easy to full on expert.. at the same time you’re having to deal with English weather, I’ve been building a deep sky Astro rig since June 2020 and only now am I seeking clear nights to go out and test.
Jaw dropping final image, wow.
A refractor of that size is ideal for a Backyard Observatory, meaning not a great portable material. Neither my arms are strong nor am I very young. I would consider a Maksutov0Cassegrain for that. With stellar specs for optics, it's oogle-worthy for sure. Love the patient review you give.
Same assessment here : for me, 100mm is the upper limit for a good quality, reasonably affordable, "grab & go" refractor.
Beyond that, I will very likely turn to catadioptrics, because of the size and weight.
The other reason is the price !
I took the hard road right off the bat. Have had a NextStar8 for about ten years, and for the majority, I've been simply observing. Then the AP bug got a hold of me about 2 years ago. Last year, I bought a Losmandy G11, an ASI 174, and a Celestron OAG. I have yet to do anything besides the sun, moon and Jupiter. Im behind the 8 ball bieng such a long focal length and bortle 9 skies here in Houston. Even on clear nights, polaris is invisible. Im really considering getting this scope. I really like my Nextstar and have seen the rsults of others using it. Om also only using a Canon 60D unmodified. So far my biggest fear is packing it all up, going to a dark location and finding out my technique is bad. I dont think it is because during the last eclipse, my tracking stayed centered, without guiding for almost 2 hours. It's just at night, my plate solving fails. Again im hoping it's due to bad seeing as opposed to bad technique.
Great video, I'm really impressed :) Nico, I would like to ask you if you have any videos on how to interpret pixinsight abberation analysis mosaic. I have weirdly shaped stars in the corner of my fullframe sensor when Iam using reducer and I would like to know how to interpret the shape of the stars. If I shoudl add to backfocus or remove from it. Thanks for your always GREAT videos :)
If it's backfocus all the stars will be elongated in the corners and this chart will help: cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1594/4815/files/Back_Focus_Spacing_Guide_1024x1024.jpg?v=1606528627
If it's tilt, they will be elongated more in some corners than the others. I'd suggest trying to fix backfocus first and then deal with tilt. Hope that helps.
@@NebulaPhotos Perfect! Chart like this is exactly what I needed. It looks the same in each corner and by looking at the chart, my sensor is too close. Stars are not so elongated, but more like teardrop shaped, but in the outwards direction and tip of the "drop" aiming to the center of the image.
Excellent coverage on the topic of larger scope challenges. You’ll see a lot of guys with heavy rigs with the tripod feet on blocks. That’s a nice looking scope. I’ve learned there’s a limit to how much aperture I can reasonably use. My atmosphere just doesn’t permit large scopes like C9.25’s. I have the jet stream and ocean air to deal with. This is a good video. Really enjoyed it.
The air wiggles every bit as much in a small scope as a large one, it's just that you're not seeing the sky well enough to notice with the smaller scope. The difficulty with using something like a SCT for astrophotography is in the focal length rather than the aperture. You're looking at a tiny slice of the sky with a C9.25 (~2300mm) vs a typical 400mm or shorter focal length small refractor. Taking images with something like a RASA or a very fast reflector (let's say an 800mm focal length, a typical 8" Newtonian astrograph) isn't that much smaller a field of view, but you get both more light collection and better resolution. The resolution might still be limited by seeing if you're right at the edge of what you could see with a 400mm, but it's not going to produce an image that's worse than the 400mm zoomed in 2x.
Nico, thanks so much for all the great information you share!
Quick question, is adding a spacer for compensation of filter necessary always? Just curious, for example, using a filter drawer and swapping in empty tray for full bandwidth. Would one need to add/remove the spacer each time the filter tray was swapped with/without filter? My field flattener requires 55mm which I have but wasn’t sure if compensation for filter is also necessary. 15:51
Thank you!
In a converging beam of light a filter will shift focus by roughly 1/3 the thickness of the filter.
@@williamhamblen3808 yes, however, it is correctable with filter focus offsets and not necessary to modify physical back focus distances with shims.
Beautiful final image. Well done!
Also very good troubleshooting the challenges.
I'm often disappointed at some Astro forums where a lot of less knowledgeable folk immediately criticize telescopes when in reality, its operator error. There's a lot of pixel peeping too, ....
Anyhow nice job. Thanks for posting. Kind regards!
(As for the answer to the title: yes. I like smaller apertures, 6" SCTs, small apo-refractors. 60" is a lot of bang for the money. Small pixel camera .... For great detail, I download the great images of NASA or the Euro Space Agency. Their telescopes are tops.)
Niko FYI: Coyotes do not howl at the moon. Neither do wolves, but they just happen to be nocturnal hunters. Great video!
Such a beefy scope! Interesting that the stars looked better at the corners with the reducer. Great final image. CS!
Hello!
I want to assemble a spotting scope with a good viewing angle, fast aperture and 60x magnification. There are 2 achromat lenses to choose from:
1) diameter 100mm F600mm
2) diameter 100mm F900mm
Eyepieces:
1) Celestron f10mm 50⁰
2) Celestron f15mm 50⁰ respectively
Question:
In which option at a magnification of 60x will there be a better viewing angle and detail
Thanks
I am not the best person to ask (I don't do a lot of visual astronomy), but I believe that you should go for the slower scope with the wider eyepiece based on your criteria.
@@NebulaPhotos Thank you very much for your advice! I will experiment! I wish prosperity to your channel!😊👍🏻
Nico, I've only recently started really following your channel. So, let me ask you a question. A 130mm scope is rather large, heavy, and prone to the issues you've spoken about. So, why not something like a 6" R.C.? Yes, I will grant you that a 6" R.C. is probably going to have a focal length almost twice that of what this scope with the 0.7x reducer on it is, but it's lighter in weight, shouldn't give you the wind sail effect that something like this does. It should, I would think, ride a little bit better on something like an EQ6-R Pro, plus, you should be able to do zenith photography better with it.
The downsides, of course, is collimation, but my understanding is that once a R.C. is collimated, it isn't going to require it anywhere as near much as a Newtonian reflector, which seems to require it once a night before use, and twice on Saturdays.
As to spongy ground. Cut yourself three 2' x 2' x5/8" pieces of plywood, sand, prime and paint. Cut a hole into the center of the sheet, but not all the way through that will accomodate the Celestron/Meade vibration pads. You can also use two 3/8" pieces, with the hole drilled completely through one and then both screwed/glued together. Setting the tripod on this gives you vibration control and spreads the weight out over 12 square feet of space, preventing the drop into spongy ground.
Hello Nico, I am wondering how far away from Boston you are that you have coyotes in your area. I live up in Maine and used to deliver in the Boston area almost daily. I would love to drive down there for a visit during an imaging session sometime. You are a top notch teacher and I appreciate your videos. Thank You.
Nice vídeo brother. Hey I live in Boston too, could you recommend good places to stargazing in MA. Im new on the hobby and having some trouble to find a good spot. Lol.
A fave spot for me is Ninigret Park / Frosty Drew Observatory in Charlestown, RI. Open all night on the weekends and plenty of space. In Mass, you can join the astro clubs to get access to private fields or go to the beaches in Cape Cod. Lots of spots in New Hampshire as well. Email me if you want more specific: nicocarver at gmail
This capture is great 🔥🔥…Can you please tell how to use filter wheel with dslr and image stacking of the same.
Just pulled the trigger and ordered one. I also got the reducer and pier extension for my eq6r pro (thanks for the warning btw!!!) Im sorta anxious to see how good it really is... Its the most Ive spent on a scope and there arent many reviews for the 130 and how good it really is, not just what the website says. I feel like a astro test subject lol
I remember when i first got my Astro Tech 130EDT I was like... holy crap telescopes are way bigger in person. I didn't find imaging with it that much harder than with my smaller scopes.. just have to be a bit more mindful of set up and your conditions.
Have you ever seen any of the SharpStar scopes? They have some compelling statistics, but that doesn't necessarily translate to good performance in the real world, of course. The thing that got my attention was that the image circle is big enough to cover a Fuji medium format sensor, at f/2.8.
This actually is a sharpstar scope. Sharpstar is the parent company for Askar, and they also supply telescopes for many other brands like Apertura, Radian, Astro-tech, TS-optics, etc
Great video thanks. Thanks to one of your other videos comparing an Orion, SVbony & Askar 80mm refractors, I am getting the Askar 80PHQ as my first astrophotography telescope Although I'm not sure how good it will be for planetary images. I currently have a Celestron 130SLT. One question. Is Adobe Photoshop Elements sufficient for deepsky manipulation (Levels, curves etc)? I don't really want to pay a monthly sub. I was amazed when you said you added a 1mm spacer for backfocus. I didn't realise they could be that thin.
GREAT INFORMATION WILL HELP ME IMPROVE. THANK YOU.