Infacide up 1 year after birth or until the child is named. Super traditional. Also equal rights. If a woman can put her child down, then a man should be able to put her wherever. Censorship yay.
I would be pro life if our government didn’t set those lives born up for failure and those of that partisan group vocally and legislatively being against providing a half-decent standard of living for them. It seems like those folks are “pro-life” until that life is born. Then, those lives are just discarded and mocked for needing government assistance and handouts.
Because no one was telling the others they were factually wrong, it was 3 dudes with 2~ opinions talking. They also know each other. Typically the argument is between two competing entities with preconceived hostility. The majority of political arguments would be this calm if it was only between people who don't want to come to a conclusion and are friendly.
Woody worded it exactly how i have in the past, are we sure forcing unwanted children into the hands of unwanting mothers will positively impact out society
Maybe those mothers should have closed their legs. how about this, you can get an abortion but then you get sterilized so you never can get pregnant again
@@GrrmPleaseWrite in a way the belief that murder is bad stems from the fact that it negatively impacts the community. Also if the overall goal isn't to better the society we exist in then what is?
I think that ultimately it’s pretty rare for anything that would be considered late term. People using it as birth control is pretty rare, you miss one birth control pill, a condom breaks, guys also lie all the time about finishing or even take the condom off without saying something. You don’t know right away. Late terms are extremely rare and 99% of the time (way the fuck closer to accurate than Taylor’s estimate in the opposite direction) it’s a pregnancy that’s going to die immediately outside of the womb. Taylor is insanely misinformed on this.
@@MrFruitPrimate Taylor said 99% of the time it's done out of convenience, which is close to true since it seems he was using a large percent to basically say "the vast majority". Not that the vast majority are late-term/viable.
People talk all the time about how being a child in a single parent/abusive/unwanted household increases the chances that the child becomes a criminal - which is true! So why would we want *more* kids to be born into those households?
@@reed3272 I support putting more funding into the adoption system. But this is just a dumb reply, you don't have to adopt multiple kids yourself to be logically consistent with being against killing babies.
It firstly shouldn't be made illegal. The circumstances regarding when to perform one or what period it can be done are debatable but outright making it illegal is foolish. There are times or situations that just aren't right for a woman to carry to term.
@@helio68it’s totally black and white, good and evil, baby murder vs. birth. I’m sorry, but the issue is far less complicated than some would like to pretend.
@@thebigragu9952That’s what most religious-based takes say on this issue. We aren’t all religious. I don’t believe in the supernatural or “evil”. Why must the rest of society be constrained to pseudo-Christian theocratic ideals?
@@theduck2970 I haven’t made one religious argument against abortion, many Jews like to say that abortion is part of their religion, does that make the pro choice argument a religious one? Because I don’t think it does. If you’d like to have an actual discussion about why abortion is murder, and why it will be viewed as the greatest atrocity from our time, I’m open to it.
I don’t particularly like the idea of abortion but based on principles I agree with Woody’s stance. I think it should be legal up until the child can survive on its own
@@chadb4838 I would say 12 weeks. Anything after that would absurd. If I’m honest, if I ever impregnated a woman and she had an abortion, it would weigh on my conscience. I respect the woman’s choice but it wouldn’t be something I could shrug off.
A newborn can't survive on its own so this is a bad argument. It's completely dependent on it's mother inside and outside of its womb. Life begins at inception. This is a basic fact. from inception forward it's a human life the develops at different stages.
@@huntwray312 saying everything is subjective is stupid. You KNOW killing innocent people is wrong. It's not subjective and you don't have to go down an endless philosophical rabbit hole questioning all of reality to come to that conclusion when you have reasoning.
@@huntwray312okay, is rape good or bad? Please tell me how that’s a subjective question, and could be viewed from multiple angles. My guess would be that you’ll have to make up some extreme hypothetical, like people have to do for abortion. It’s not a hard thing to decided, 99% of the time it’s for selfish reasons, a baby is killed for selfish reasons.
Personally I think it coming down to the idea of being alive is kinda dumb, we kill living things all the time and don’t care. What seems to matter is personhood, a level of consciousness that separates us from animals. A level of consciousness that simply doesn’t exist until much later in development.
Abortion laws have nothing to do with your philosophy on what life constitutes. It has everything to do with the gov seeking philosophical rule over the arguments and taking your seat away from the table. Restricting abortion only gives the gov power to enforce their laws regardless of your opinions on it. What's to say they won't change it to favor them? You can see how the issue is now completely relative in terms of overreach and control.
The government‘s job is to control us. That’s why the majority of our state population live in cities. Did you know it’s illegal to commit suicide but how would you face the repercussions?
@DurkahMurkah That's not what the law says, though. You're passing black and white laws, not what you should morally do. They could very easily switch the other way and now you have no say in the matter. This isn't a moral issue. It is a legislative one.
So the government shouldn't be able to prevent murder? The government shouldn't be able to prevent rape? I'm all against government overreach, but this take is the most asinine take on this topic.
The whole conception argument just doesn’t make sense to me unless religion is involved. Fetuses at very early stages are identical to many other animal’s, they have no brain or conscious.
I'm not religious and I, like every scientist, say that life begins at conception when the zygote is created. If we found a zygote on mars, we would say that we found life.
@@DurkahMurkahwell yes a cell is living, a zygote is living, but is that really why it’s not ok to end its life? Humans have no problem killing a chicken zygote that is just as intelligent and developed as a human zygote. So why is it not ok? Because in the future it could become a human with a conscious but that’s not really a satisfactory answer to me.
taylor: all forms of abortion(including plan b) should be banned. except when he needed it...but now ban it. surprise, how many against abortion find a way when it affects them or their family.
@@CrypidLore so he was able to make a decision on the course his life and the womans life would take, but now others should not have that same right? Pulling up the ladder behind himself. But hey, he would totally hold the same principal tomorrow and if he met a random and the condom broke. Single guy with a baby momma. Sure.
I see the issue as one of consent. When you have sex, you are doing so with the knowledge that there is some % chance that a pregnancy will occur, regardless of what method(s) of birth control is used. Meaning, if the outcome happens to be a pregnancy, you (both parents) should be willing to accept the responsibility that comes along with having sex. You both consented to an activity with a widely known possible outcome. The fetus did not consent to any of this. This also takes care of the question of exceptions, as lack of consent would mean the outcome should not have been possible. Meaning, abortions are acceptable in those cases. Obviously, an exception for the health of the mother is needed as well. We definitely need better resources for children, but it shouldn't preclude us from protecting everybody's rights.
Damn taylor cant even concede that abortions for the mothers health are ok? Like yea some ppl will abuse that, does that mean the option shouldnt be available at all??
What are the reasons that killing animals, lets say pigs, is morally acceptable? This is a legitimate question. Pigs have a functioning heart, brain activity, intelligence of a human child, social structure and the ability to form bonds. It seems some people bring morals into the abortion question but dont acknowledge the moral inconsistentcies they have when it comes to life in all of its forms.
@@elijahtiemens5532 legally, human life takes precedent. Morally there is no difference. What principles do you believe make human life superior? We are apart of the animal kingdom after all
@@abotaccount6094 The concept of morality is perceived through human consciousness and introspection. And furthermore, human life is inherently superior because I am human, my family is human, and my community is human.
@@elijahtiemens5532 yes the concept of morality is a human perspective. Since you are human, you should be able to explain why it's morally okay to kill Pigs but not a fetus. Could you explain? Your reasoning for humans being superior to other animals is "I'm human, other people are human" So you don't really have an argument other than "human better"? If you don't have the critical thinking skills to engage with this question, why did you comment in the first place?
It's not so black and white, for me if it's a R baby, immediately, and at any time/point. If it's severely disabled I'd consider it a mercy killing, and those happen all the time, so that's just whenever you find out about the condition. And for healthy couples that breakup I think it should take consent of both parties, if the baby is in late stages and could survive, I think it should take the consent of both parents.
Lmao all these PKA right wingers who ALWAYS shit on woody and disagree with him on practicaly EVERYTHING, seem to only side with him on his abortion stance hahaha. Wonder why 😂
I don’t get the Woody hate. I don’t agree with him on everything but most of his positions are very reasonable. The people in the comments act like he’s a Radical Left wing nut.
@@xandercrews4729 If you look closer at some of the comments, they are either trolls or extremists. Like blatant kind of extreme. Unfortunately, PKA attracts a lot of those.
@@xandercrews4729it think it’s more that he seems to go out of his way to disagree most of the time for sometimes the most ridiculous reasons so it seems he’s just doing it on purpose.
adoption arguement: if Taylor is against any abortion and those numbers, how many kids has he adopted? jump in line and do your part if it is such a catch all solution.
@@DurkahMurkah if the alternative offered is adoption, then someone has to do it. 600k abortions was a number they offeres? then need 600k people a year willing to adopt. What else to do with the forced babies the people can not or do not want to raise? There needs to be a solution other than 'deal with it'.
Because he is approaching the question from a systematic viewpoint, and you are looking at it at an individualistic level in order to discredit his opinion. You can oppose drug addiction without needing a minimum number of addicts you sponsor through rehab.
Life begins at inception. Babies can't survive without their mother outside of the womb. Stating that it's okay any time before it can survive outside the womb is a braindead argument.
Human rights dont begin at inception though. And the rights of the mother are not to be infringed for the rights of a sperm + egg. Everyone outside of crazy town can agree with the statement "my body my choice"
@@abotaccount6094 there's two bodies though and only one of them has a choice. Why is it that mother's feel like their baby has died when they want it but when they don't want it it wasnt a life? If a woman tests positive for pregnancy a week later and you could snap your fingers and terminate that pregnancy with out harming the mother, the mother would cry out you killed my baby! Or would she say well that's fine it wasn't a baby to begin with?
@@alexandern5296 yes, there are two bodies, one with rights and the other still developing. Are you asking questions about human/woman psychology? Do I need to explain why an expecting mother would grieve the loss of a future with her child, and why a different mother would not grieve the loss of her unexpected pregnancy?
@@abotaccount6094 there are lots of women who have unexpected pregnancies, get an abortion and greatly regret it and grieve the loss of their child…
We value human life because of its ability to experience. Conscious hopes, needs, wants, fears, all of that. If we know anything about the relationship between physical complexity, and the ability to experience, we would understand that the brain is where all of this comes from. Abortion should be legal up to the point of these complex systems which allow consciousness to arise have developed enough to have some semblance of awareness. According to the best research I can find, its around 28 weeks. the brain stem starts to develop around week 6, with movements from the nervous system and reactions to external stimulus starting to happen at week 8. So, IMHO a good middle ground answer would be 8-10 weeks, giving mothers plenty of time to realize they are pregnant and make an informed decision.
So during the time in taylors life when he was wasn't prepared for a child, he supported abortion. But now he is against it? That is literally pulling the ladder up after yourself. Also, hilarious for a guy with a DUI arrest to talk about personal responsibility.
To clarify, I love all of the guys on the podcast. I just think that is a bad take. Not trying to hate on Taylor, he presented his views reasonably I just don't think its a good view.
I'm sorry, when do you *have* to pull the plug? When the patient is in pain? Fetuses are not in pain. Is it too expensive? If it is not financially viable, does that make it okay to kill?
But in a coma there is a chance you wont wake up AND you already got to live. With a fetus it'll likely be born considering modern medicine and it had no chance at all, because someone decided it had to die before it could get it's first inhale outside the womb.
Not everyone should be a parent. If a woman wants to make the choice to terminate the pregnancy that is a far better option than forcing a child to be brought into the world by parents who will most likely not love him/her.
@@GrrmPleaseWrite sorry, that was a soft example. I really mean that there are children who get brutally abused, killed, etc… because they were unwanted. If someone doesn’t want a kid then it is better to end the pregnancy rather than subject the child to a life of misery and possible trauma that will affect them for life. You do not speak for everyone on earth, friend.
@@blepblep469 neither do you. I’m of the belief that existence is always preferable to nonexistence. People are hesitant to give the death penalty to convicted murderers and torturers, but it’s okay to give it to a totally innocent person? Maybe read Man’s Search for Meaning or The Gulag Archipelago, or Twelve Years a Slave. There are people who have had the worst lives imaginable, but still found the strength to push on and find meaning. A kid can have an awful childhood and extreme trauma, but I bet only a small portion of them would rather not exist at all. It’s ironic that you say I can’t speak for everyone, but you advocate for killing those who can’t speak for themselves.
16:46 Yeah but the cake isn't a consequence of another action it's the primary outcome. Pregnancy more often than not is accidental, if you make the hypothetical accurate it would be like a couple trying for a child and then getting it aborted which would be genuinely horrific. Also the entire stance on life beginning at contraception is wild
Because the choice people are having that choice stripped away from them by people who will never have to make that choice. Of course they're not peaceful.
My stance on abortion very closely lines up with Woody's. If the baby is 100% reliant on the mothers body to be able to develop/live, then to me that just makes the baby apart of the mothers body. To be clear I dont care whatever anyone wants to call it, I just feel people should have autonomy over their body. However if the baby is fully capable of leaving the mothers body (while still being fed and taken care of, of course) then it becomes it own being, this gaining its own autonomy, and should not be harmed in any way. That's just my views on it, and everyone SHOULD be utilizing all of the technologies available to avoid unwanted pregnancy.
Video starts with Kyle saying that the biggest problem is that neither side will allow themselves to see through the other side's eyes. I would normally agree but there are many like me who have come from the one side realizing that they're freaking nuts. The left has moved so far left that anybody who was semi liberal or semi conservative is now viewed as far right.
The way I think about it is u always have the option to check out of this life but not to be born into it. I refused to put my dog down because I would not be comfortable making that decision for another human that couldnt communicate properly. If you wanna take yourself out, go for it. But no one else has the right to make that decision other than you.
@joebama22266 I don't think a mother should be forced to carry and raise such a child. Not saying they should be forced to abort, but it's cruel to make someone do that. Especially if they're young
@@johnnygreenface4195 first, no one said anything about forcing a mother to raise a child. Adoption has always been a thing. As for being forced to carry the child to term, it’s a terrible tragedy, but not as tragic as killing the baby. Being pregnant is not the worst torture in the world. It’s uncomfortable and can come with many complications, but unless the mother’s life is in danger, it’s necessary that they carry the baby. It’s a very noble and even heroic thing for a woman to accept that she was assaulted and still allow that child to live. Any woman who does that is an absolute saint in my book. Killing the baby does not always mean the mother is evil, because she is a victim, but it is wrong and misguided, and in some cases, indeed evil.
I don’t think the government should be involved with anything medical. I also struggle with this viable outside the womb stance…. What infant or child can survive on their own? I just don’t think that’s a good argument.
I don’t really have a strong stance on the situation, but I believe that referring to the potential of human life as a fetus is a way to remove stigma of having an abortion, objectively looking it’s killing potential life and if you wanna have that choice all power to ya.
i think abortion should be allowed if pregnancy was forced on someone, especially if that someone is a child, and/or if the mother will not survive. I believe in consequences, but i also believe that you shouldnt have to ruin your body if you never had a choice.
This was an incredibly ill informed “debate” on both sides. And as a prolifer I cringed listening to Taylor. he doesn’t even recognize that Woody is saying objectivly wrong statements. Woody is wrong that half of abortions are done by “plan b”. While half of abortions are done with an abortion pill, that is not plan b. Abortions by definition take place after implantation. Plan b is not the same thing as the abortion pill. Its an entirely different type of pill, and works primarily by preventing ovulation, and MAY thin the lining of the uterus, so if the other mechanism fails, the chances of implantation might be lower. And that last mechanism is even debatable whether it happens in scientific literature. And it is perfectly consistent to be ok with plan b and not abortion, but Taylor botches up his reasoning so badly for that. A woman is not pregnant unless implantation has occured, after which plan b will never work. Abortion isnt a passive action that may or may not harm a embryo. All modern methods directly kill the embryo or fetus. The question is whether that embryo or fetus should be considered a person. If one believes that it is, then it is not inconsistent to oppose it even in cases of a fetus with a severe birth defect. Many of those are detected later in pregnancy, and an abortion isnt simply just “allowing” them to die like a coma patient being unplugged. It involves injecting the fetus with feticide that kills it by stopping the heart, and then removing it via labor induction, or in pieces in a D&E (And sometimes the D&E is done without an injection, which involves a live dismemberment) If a woman had a premature infant at 24 weeks with a severe defect, she would (and should) be allowed to opt for palliative non invasive care until death. But she cannot have a doctor directly kill it. However, if that 24 weeker was still in utero, the law allows killing it even though it is inconsistent. That is what Taylor should have pointed out instead of dismissing it as an outlier, even though It is true that the vast majority of abortions are done on healthy fetuses carried by healthy mothers. Also, the safe legal and rare stance that kyle likes is nonsensical. Its an attempt to be “moderate” and is logically incoherent. if its not murder, why does it need to be rare? That’s like saying colonoscopies should be “rare” as opposed to available for those who need them. It is much more coherent to be pro-choice and not think it should be “rare”, if its truly a medical procedure that serves as a backstop to imperfect contraception.
Well I think it goes to just because something isn’t right doesn’t mean it should be illegal like I mean if you want society to be better we should ban alcohol and tobacco to reduce all the I’ll effects of health that they cause but we’ve tried that it didn’t go over well
Can’t blame anyone for that. The dems have had a tough couple years of representation they are making themselves look terrible. Dems need to elect better leaders and candidates so we can get shit moving again.
The correct moral stance is a complete ban with the exception of severe threat to the mother's life. The correct political stance is somewhere near a 16 week ban with the exception of severe threat to the mother's life.
@sherapaige9532 Yes they can, those are two different ethical standards. For example, religiously gay marriage should not be allowed but politically it should.
@@AnEnemyAnenomeif you eat meat, you cant morally support anti abortion laws, its inconsistent. There are certain criteria that animals lack that makes it okay for us to kill them, legally. A human fetus lacks these same criteria and more, would that make it okay to kill them? If you support life in all forms, then you are against the killing of animals for food.
is it so hard to take a pill everyday? they brush their teeth everyday, they take a shit everyday, the brush their hair everyday, but taking a pill everyday is beyond them
Kyle has a surprising amount of insight on both of the arguments. Woody is taking the basic left leaning take. And Taylor has the basic right wing take, but secretly dgaf and wants to play AOE. But I agree with Taylor, don't stick your baby shooter into the baby maker if you aren't willing to accept the consequences.
And I think Woody has a valid point about all these unwanted/neglected kids becoming a burden on society. It’s harsh to view a baby that way, but so many of these troubled teens come from f’d parental situations.
accidents happen. If you have applied contraceptives between two consenting adults with the agreement you don't want to have a child, but the applied contraceptive fails as they are capable of doing. Seems unfair to force a product failure onto the consumer.
@@Anoradord I agree, but that’s a rare occurrence. Not only would a device that’s over 99% effective have to fail, it would also have to occur during the 5 day period in the month when a woman can actually conceive.
@xandercrews4729 I think we agree there are a lot of rare circumstances where someone goes "well... I get it". My point entirely is saying is sex in the 21st century shouldn't blanket be an 18 to life commitment. Imo abortion should be legal and accessible. Humans could do with more population control. Stimulates the economy and the quality of child care goes up when only wanted children are born
I like the point of conception argument but would take it even further. Every miscarriage should be investigated as a murder until proven not to be caused by the Mother’s actions because a life is a life.
@zakoryus you think every miscarriage should be investigated as murder, your brain dead. I never killed one baby, but I have a pretty good reason why it's okay. And I can tell your a man, probably never had sex or kids, nor adopted the ones that the parents didn't want. So your opinion means nothing
It is very easy to come to a Pro-Life conclusion on the issue logically. It is not simply a remnant of religious thinking. Neither side has any real scientific evidence to support their argument on whether or not it is a life. So, each side has equal standing when making their claim. If the Pro-Life side is wrong, then the worst that has happened is that women had been oppressed. If the Pro-Choice side is wrong, then that is one of the worst crimes and tragedies in the history of humanity. So, naturally, *just to be safe*, the Pro-Life side is the correct side to stand on as of now.
"Neither side has any real scientific evidence to support their argument on whether or not it is a life." - Stopped reading here. You might well be medically retarded.
Which side are you closer to on the abоrtion debate?
Pro Life 💯
Life.
Pro life, but government should help mothers more, especially after giving birth.
Infacide up 1 year after birth or until the child is named. Super traditional. Also equal rights. If a woman can put her child down, then a man should be able to put her wherever. Censorship yay.
I would be pro life if our government didn’t set those lives born up for failure and those of that partisan group vocally and legislatively being against providing a half-decent standard of living for them. It seems like those folks are “pro-life” until that life is born. Then, those lives are just discarded and mocked for needing government assistance and handouts.
I'm legitimately shocked they sat down and had a real shit conversation. I was expecting the typical PKAntics
W PKA
This debate is a prime example showcasing the chemistry between Kyle, Woody, and Taylor. PKA wouldn't be PKA without any of them.
How is this the best debate on abortion ive seen in years... Its fucking pka
Because no one was telling the others they were factually wrong, it was 3 dudes with 2~ opinions talking. They also know each other.
Typically the argument is between two competing entities with preconceived hostility.
The majority of political arguments would be this calm if it was only between people who don't want to come to a conclusion and are friendly.
W PKA
Because they’re all friends for years and genuinely care for one another enough to not assume they have the worst intentions
They’re not dumb.
Woody worded it exactly how i have in the past, are we sure forcing unwanted children into the hands of unwanting mothers will positively impact out society
Yes
@@TheSpecKid 😂
Maybe those mothers should have closed their legs. how about this, you can get an abortion but then you get sterilized so you never can get pregnant again
It’s not about making a positive impact on society, it’s about being anti-murder
@@GrrmPleaseWrite in a way the belief that murder is bad stems from the fact that it negatively impacts the community. Also if the overall goal isn't to better the society we exist in then what is?
with modern day contraseptives abortions should be really rare. There is lot of improving on personal responsibility
exactly! it's easier than ever before to avoid having that problem
I think that ultimately it’s pretty rare for anything that would be considered late term. People using it as birth control is pretty rare, you miss one birth control pill, a condom breaks, guys also lie all the time about finishing or even take the condom off without saying something. You don’t know right away. Late terms are extremely rare and 99% of the time (way the fuck closer to accurate than Taylor’s estimate in the opposite direction) it’s a pregnancy that’s going to die immediately outside of the womb. Taylor is insanely misinformed on this.
@@MrFruitPrimate Taylor said 99% of the time it's done out of convenience, which is close to true since it seems he was using a large percent to basically say "the vast majority". Not that the vast majority are late-term/viable.
@@MrFruitPrimateTaylor is speaking from a moral stance, not an informed stance.
@@Ragnarok.1776 the stats are almost the opposite of what he said, his factual understanding is so far off his moral take loses all meaning.
If bacteria would be considered life on mars then a heartbeat should be considered life on earth.
Ridiculous strawman argument
Imagine if all political debates were like this... maybe the country wouldn’t be as fucked up and divided as it is lol
Inb4 every single comment is hating on Woody for being even mildly liberal.
W Woody take
-
(most of his takes are decent but people hate him because he’s moderately liberal.)
People talk all the time about how being a child in a single parent/abusive/unwanted household increases the chances that the child becomes a criminal - which is true!
So why would we want *more* kids to be born into those households?
I personally hate over crowded places, if there were a few less people in the world I probably wouldn’t bat an eye
I'm pro black abortion. That will fix the issues you said.
Because everyone deserves a chance at life just like you were given.
You can want less abortions and less single parent homes at the same time.
@cadencarson2997 why feed an already burning fire by pushing these kids in these conditions
Wtf is Taylor on these days😂
his cranium is reaching critical mass
Logic and reasoning
@@DurkahMurkah go adopt some kids then buddy
@@reed3272 I support putting more funding into the adoption system. But this is just a dumb reply, you don't have to adopt multiple kids yourself to be logically consistent with being against killing babies.
@@reed3272You understand there are many multiple more adopters than adoptees?
“Takin loads” 🤣
Made me think of Frank from always sunny
I usually disagree with everything Woody says. But he’s dead on in this one. Taylor is taking the L on this one. Respect for him has been lost.
It firstly shouldn't be made illegal. The circumstances regarding when to perform one or what period it can be done are debatable but outright making it illegal is foolish. There are times or situations that just aren't right for a woman to carry to term.
Exactly it's not black and white
@@helio68it’s totally black and white, good and evil, baby murder vs. birth. I’m sorry, but the issue is far less complicated than some would like to pretend.
@@thebigragu9952That’s what most religious-based takes say on this issue. We aren’t all religious. I don’t believe in the supernatural or “evil”. Why must the rest of society be constrained to pseudo-Christian theocratic ideals?
@@thebigragu9952 You're right.
Freedom to Choose = Good
Forcing Everyone To Bow to Religious Beliefs = Evil
Thanks for pointing that out.
@@theduck2970 I haven’t made one religious argument against abortion, many Jews like to say that abortion is part of their religion, does that make the pro choice argument a religious one? Because I don’t think it does. If you’d like to have an actual discussion about why abortion is murder, and why it will be viewed as the greatest atrocity from our time, I’m open to it.
i will give props to the pot head for have a more based idea of abortion than 80% of the population
I don’t particularly like the idea of abortion but based on principles I agree with Woody’s stance. I think it should be legal up until the child can survive on its own
so you should be able to kill it at 6-8 months?
It can survive a while before that @@chadb4838
@@chadb4838 I would say 12 weeks. Anything after that would absurd. If I’m honest, if I ever impregnated a woman and she had an abortion, it would weigh on my conscience. I respect the woman’s choice but it wouldn’t be something I could shrug off.
A newborn can't survive on its own so this is a bad argument. It's completely dependent on it's mother inside and outside of its womb. Life begins at inception. This is a basic fact. from inception forward it's a human life the develops at different stages.
@@alexandern5296 I don’t think it’s a fact. Early on, there’s no heartbeat, no brain activity. IMO, that’s not a human.
This is a moral issue so there will never be a correct answer. Moral quandaries will always prevent progress.
There are correct answers to moral questions though.
@@DurkahMurkah no there are not. That is what makes it a moral question
@@huntwray312 saying everything is subjective is stupid. You KNOW killing innocent people is wrong.
It's not subjective and you don't have to go down an endless philosophical rabbit hole questioning all of reality to come to that conclusion when you have reasoning.
Only if you completely reject the role of morality in making decisions
@@huntwray312okay, is rape good or bad? Please tell me how that’s a subjective question, and could be viewed from multiple angles. My guess would be that you’ll have to make up some extreme hypothetical, like people have to do for abortion. It’s not a hard thing to decided, 99% of the time it’s for selfish reasons, a baby is killed for selfish reasons.
Personally I think it coming down to the idea of being alive is kinda dumb, we kill living things all the time and don’t care. What seems to matter is personhood, a level of consciousness that separates us from animals. A level of consciousness that simply doesn’t exist until much later in development.
By this logic you could get rid of newborns
@@DurkahMurkah Except they don't. Nice try.
@@DurkahMurkah confidently incorrect. This level of consciousness/awareness is present before birth.
Abortion laws have nothing to do with your philosophy on what life constitutes. It has everything to do with the gov seeking philosophical rule over the arguments and taking your seat away from the table. Restricting abortion only gives the gov power to enforce their laws regardless of your opinions on it. What's to say they won't change it to favor them? You can see how the issue is now completely relative in terms of overreach and control.
BASED!
The government should have the power to prevent murder. That's one of their main purposes.
The government‘s job is to control us. That’s why the majority of our state population live in cities. Did you know it’s illegal to commit suicide but how would you face the repercussions?
@DurkahMurkah That's not what the law says, though. You're passing black and white laws, not what you should morally do. They could very easily switch the other way and now you have no say in the matter. This isn't a moral issue. It is a legislative one.
So the government shouldn't be able to prevent murder? The government shouldn't be able to prevent rape? I'm all against government overreach, but this take is the most asinine take on this topic.
The whole conception argument just doesn’t make sense to me unless religion is involved. Fetuses at very early stages are identical to many other animal’s, they have no brain or conscious.
I'm not religious and I, like every scientist, say that life begins at conception when the zygote is created.
If we found a zygote on mars, we would say that we found life.
@@DurkahMurkahwell yes a cell is living, a zygote is living, but is that really why it’s not ok to end its life? Humans have no problem killing a chicken zygote that is just as intelligent and developed as a human zygote. So why is it not ok? Because in the future it could become a human with a conscious but that’s not really a satisfactory answer to me.
@@DurkahMurkah
And if a Martian came around and stepped on it we can’t arrest them can we?
@@shooterDisease what even is this reply
@@DurkahMurkah”and I, like every scientist” Jesus dude go outside
Never agree with woody but today I do
taylor: all forms of abortion(including plan b) should be banned. except when he needed it...but now ban it. surprise, how many against abortion find a way when it affects them or their family.
Almost as if... he changed his view as he got older... that bastard Taylor!
@@CrypidLore so he was able to make a decision on the course his life and the womans life would take, but now others should not have that same right?
Pulling up the ladder behind himself.
But hey, he would totally hold the same principal tomorrow and if he met a random and the condom broke. Single guy with a baby momma. Sure.
@@TriHard612bingo
@@TriHard612 Did Taylor ever say he was the one that physically went and got the plan B, or encouraged an abortion? Or was it the woman's choice?
@@CrypidLore 15:30 ish "not something I would use with a girl commonly".
implies more than once and was making the decision with the woman.
I see the issue as one of consent.
When you have sex, you are doing so with the knowledge that there is some % chance that a pregnancy will occur, regardless of what method(s) of birth control is used.
Meaning, if the outcome happens to be a pregnancy, you (both parents) should be willing to accept the responsibility that comes along with having sex.
You both consented to an activity with a widely known possible outcome.
The fetus did not consent to any of this.
This also takes care of the question of exceptions, as lack of consent would mean the outcome should not have been possible. Meaning, abortions are acceptable in those cases.
Obviously, an exception for the health of the mother is needed as well.
We definitely need better resources for children, but it shouldn't preclude us from protecting everybody's rights.
Sensible take.
What if there is case of pregnancy after a rape?
@@sirlunchalot1697re read his comment very slowly and really look and process the words because the answer to your question is in there
Thats why im still a virgin at 22 its not worth the chance and im not ready for that lmao
@@SappyEuphoria😂😂😂😂 you get no play
Damn taylor cant even concede that abortions for the mothers health are ok? Like yea some ppl will abuse that, does that mean the option shouldnt be available at all??
That divorce really took a tole
He did tho?
For once, I agree wholeheartedly with woody. Banning abortion entirely is never going to benefit anyone but GOP politicians.
also benifits the people that get to live
What are the reasons that killing animals, lets say pigs, is morally acceptable? This is a legitimate question.
Pigs have a functioning heart, brain activity, intelligence of a human child, social structure and the ability to form bonds.
It seems some people bring morals into the abortion question but dont acknowledge the moral inconsistentcies they have when it comes to life in all of its forms.
They not like us, they not like us, they not like us 🎶
Human life is superior to non human life in principle.
@@elijahtiemens5532 legally, human life takes precedent. Morally there is no difference.
What principles do you believe make human life superior? We are apart of the animal kingdom after all
@@abotaccount6094 The concept of morality is perceived through human consciousness and introspection.
And furthermore, human life is inherently superior because I am human, my family is human, and my community is human.
@@elijahtiemens5532 yes the concept of morality is a human perspective. Since you are human, you should be able to explain why it's morally okay to kill Pigs but not a fetus. Could you explain?
Your reasoning for humans being superior to other animals is "I'm human, other people are human"
So you don't really have an argument other than "human better"? If you don't have the critical thinking skills to engage with this question, why did you comment in the first place?
Kinda curious if there's a reason why Taylor changed his stance, if i remeber correctly he was all for it last time they talked about this
He thought about it logically and realized abortion is a selfish cop out for bad decision making most of the time
@@DurkahMurkah
Life is supposed to be precious and worth saving but also a punishment for sex? More so for the woman??
Yeah no.
@@DurkahMurkah
Sure, I more ment if it was because of his divorce, or something else that happened in his life
It's not so black and white, for me if it's a R baby, immediately, and at any time/point. If it's severely disabled I'd consider it a mercy killing, and those happen all the time, so that's just whenever you find out about the condition. And for healthy couples that breakup I think it should take consent of both parties, if the baby is in late stages and could survive, I think it should take the consent of both parents.
It actually is “black and white” 😂
Lmao all these PKA right wingers who ALWAYS shit on woody and disagree with him on practicaly EVERYTHING, seem to only side with him on his abortion stance hahaha. Wonder why 😂
I don’t get the Woody hate. I don’t agree with him on everything but most of his positions are very reasonable. The people in the comments act like he’s a Radical Left wing nut.
@@xandercrews4729 If you look closer at some of the comments, they are either trolls or extremists. Like blatant kind of extreme. Unfortunately, PKA attracts a lot of those.
@@xandercrews4729it think it’s more that he seems to go out of his way to disagree most of the time for sometimes the most ridiculous reasons so it seems he’s just doing it on purpose.
It take a man and woman to create a child...but the woman alone decided if it lives? And can force the man to pay for the kid? Nahhh
Butterfly effect, you save unwanted baby, grows up to street teen robs you at gunpoint
...all adopted kids murder people? Dang that's crazy
This sounds so racist.
Just because 12% of the population is savage, doesn’t mean it’s okay to legalize murder
@@alwaysrecycles365 a lot of those kids never get adopted. There should be incentives in place for couples to adopt American kids over Chinese babies.
@@xandercrews4729 kids who grow up in group homes don't count? Foster homes neither?
Why does taylor just seem mad all the time lately
He doesn't. You're tripping because you disagree with his politics
adoption arguement: if Taylor is against any abortion and those numbers, how many kids has he adopted? jump in line and do your part if it is such a catch all solution.
This is a dumb argument. You don't have to adopt kids to be pro life morally
@@DurkahMurkah if the alternative offered is adoption, then someone has to do it.
600k abortions was a number they offeres? then need 600k people a year willing to adopt.
What else to do with the forced babies the people can not or do not want to raise? There needs to be a solution other than 'deal with it'.
Because he is approaching the question from a systematic viewpoint, and you are looking at it at an individualistic level in order to discredit his opinion.
You can oppose drug addiction without needing a minimum number of addicts you sponsor through rehab.
Taylor correct as always
Life begins at inception. Babies can't survive without their mother outside of the womb. Stating that it's okay any time before it can survive outside the womb is a braindead argument.
Human rights dont begin at inception though. And the rights of the mother are not to be infringed for the rights of a sperm + egg.
Everyone outside of crazy town can agree with the statement "my body my choice"
@@abotaccount6094 there's two bodies though and only one of them has a choice. Why is it that mother's feel like their baby has died when they want it but when they don't want it it wasnt a life? If a woman tests positive for pregnancy a week later and you could snap your fingers and terminate that pregnancy with out harming the mother, the mother would cry out you killed my baby! Or would she say well that's fine it wasn't a baby to begin with?
@@alexandern5296 yes, there are two bodies, one with rights and the other still developing.
Are you asking questions about human/woman psychology? Do I need to explain why an expecting mother would grieve the loss of a future with her child, and why a different mother would not grieve the loss of her unexpected pregnancy?
@@abotaccount6094 there are lots of women who have unexpected pregnancies, get an abortion and greatly regret it and grieve the loss of their child…
We value human life because of its ability to experience. Conscious hopes, needs, wants, fears, all of that.
If we know anything about the relationship between physical complexity, and the ability to experience, we would understand that the brain is where all of this comes from.
Abortion should be legal up to the point of these complex systems which allow consciousness to arise have developed enough to have some semblance of awareness.
According to the best research I can find, its around 28 weeks.
the brain stem starts to develop around week 6, with movements from the nervous system and reactions to external stimulus starting to happen at week 8.
So, IMHO a good middle ground answer would be 8-10 weeks, giving mothers plenty of time to realize they are pregnant and make an informed decision.
Yeah , rare time I agree with woody. This definitely surprised me.
So during the time in taylors life when he was wasn't prepared for a child, he supported abortion. But now he is against it? That is literally pulling the ladder up after yourself. Also, hilarious for a guy with a DUI arrest to talk about personal responsibility.
To clarify, I love all of the guys on the podcast. I just think that is a bad take. Not trying to hate on Taylor, he presented his views reasonably I just don't think its a good view.
Lmao no one cares watch another podcast.
Want one get one don't want it don't get it
I see a fetus like I see a coma patient. Technically they're alive but sometimes you gotta pull the plug.
I'm sorry, when do you *have* to pull the plug? When the patient is in pain? Fetuses are not in pain. Is it too expensive?
If it is not financially viable, does that make it okay to kill?
@@limemasonwhy would you pull the plug on a patient that you know will wake up if given time? Your analogy doesn't make sense
@@pleaseclap5210 You wouldn't. You must have misunderstood.
But in a coma there is a chance you wont wake up AND you already got to live. With a fetus it'll likely be born considering modern medicine and it had no chance at all, because someone decided it had to die before it could get it's first inhale outside the womb.
@@limemason my bad bro I meant to tag the OP
Not everyone should be a parent. If a woman wants to make the choice to terminate the pregnancy that is a far better option than forcing a child to be brought into the world by parents who will most likely not love him/her.
If she didn't want to be a parent she shouldn't have let a guy bust a load in her
I had parents who didn’t love me. So did my wife. We’re both glad to be alive.
@@GrrmPleaseWrite sorry, that was a soft example. I really mean that there are children who get brutally abused, killed, etc… because they were unwanted. If someone doesn’t want a kid then it is better to end the pregnancy rather than subject the child to a life of misery and possible trauma that will affect them for life. You do not speak for everyone on earth, friend.
@@blepblep469 neither do you. I’m of the belief that existence is always preferable to nonexistence. People are hesitant to give the death penalty to convicted murderers and torturers, but it’s okay to give it to a totally innocent person? Maybe read Man’s Search for Meaning or The Gulag Archipelago, or Twelve Years a Slave. There are people who have had the worst lives imaginable, but still found the strength to push on and find meaning. A kid can have an awful childhood and extreme trauma, but I bet only a small portion of them would rather not exist at all.
It’s ironic that you say I can’t speak for everyone, but you advocate for killing those who can’t speak for themselves.
Evil
I wanna know how many times woody has said he watches so much fox news lol
Maybe instead of killing our children how about we fix the underlying societal issues that are driving our behavioral patterns
Best take
16:46 Yeah but the cake isn't a consequence of another action it's the primary outcome. Pregnancy more often than not is accidental, if you make the hypothetical accurate it would be like a couple trying for a child and then getting it aborted which would be genuinely horrific. Also the entire stance on life beginning at contraception is wild
you do realize the primary purpose of having sex is to reproduce right?
I like the 'Life' people. They seem more logical, and peaceful.
Because the choice people are having that choice stripped away from them by people who will never have to make that choice. Of course they're not peaceful.
@@jacos133 Yea, can't hear the child's opinion if you off it first.
@13:20 Daaammmnnn... Thats getting clipped. 😂
Why do people not say military action is a violent crime ? But we all feel that it's a violent crime.
I love Taylor.... but a little too blue this episode 😂😂
My stance on abortion very closely lines up with Woody's. If the baby is 100% reliant on the mothers body to be able to develop/live, then to me that just makes the baby apart of the mothers body. To be clear I dont care whatever anyone wants to call it, I just feel people should have autonomy over their body.
However if the baby is fully capable of leaving the mothers body (while still being fed and taken care of, of course) then it becomes it own being, this gaining its own autonomy, and should not be harmed in any way. That's just my views on it, and everyone SHOULD be utilizing all of the technologies available to avoid unwanted pregnancy.
My views on abortion change depending on the race of the baby.
based 🗿
Convenience is King!
Usually doctor’s offices use the same pregnancy tests u can buy at the dollar store
Video starts with Kyle saying that the biggest problem is that neither side will allow themselves to see through the other side's eyes. I would normally agree but there are many like me who have come from the one side realizing that they're freaking nuts. The left has moved so far left that anybody who was semi liberal or semi conservative is now viewed as far right.
The way I think about it is u always have the option to check out of this life but not to be born into it. I refused to put my dog down because I would not be comfortable making that decision for another human that couldnt communicate properly. If you wanna take yourself out, go for it. But no one else has the right to make that decision other than you.
Tailor sorta positioning himself like he's against aborting a baby resulting from rap and being unviable is kinda wild
I was born from rap3 and am glad to be alive. My mother is glad I'm alive too.
Why is it wild?
@joebama22266 I don't think a mother should be forced to carry and raise such a child. Not saying they should be forced to abort, but it's cruel to make someone do that. Especially if they're young
@@johnnygreenface4195 first, no one said anything about forcing a mother to raise a child. Adoption has always been a thing. As for being forced to carry the child to term, it’s a terrible tragedy, but not as tragic as killing the baby. Being pregnant is not the worst torture in the world. It’s uncomfortable and can come with many complications, but unless the mother’s life is in danger, it’s necessary that they carry the baby. It’s a very noble and even heroic thing for a woman to accept that she was assaulted and still allow that child to live. Any woman who does that is an absolute saint in my book. Killing the baby does not always mean the mother is evil, because she is a victim, but it is wrong and misguided, and in some cases, indeed evil.
@@joebama22266
Everyone isn’t you.
the devil is hard at work today
I don’t think the government should be involved with anything medical. I also struggle with this viable outside the womb stance…. What infant or child can survive on their own? I just don’t think that’s a good argument.
Well the private sector says you should worship Israel or you don't get treatment, you still supporting the private sector then?
Should the gov not get involved if parents start injecting hormones into their kids?
I don’t really have a strong stance on the situation, but I believe that referring to the potential of human life as a fetus is a way to remove stigma of having an abortion, objectively looking it’s killing potential life and if you wanna have that choice all power to ya.
It’s the woman who had the child so it’s only logical she gets to decide if she wants said baby or not. Just seems like common sense but I guess not.
I dont care if you ride a vacuum. I just dont want my taxes to pay for it
i think abortion should be allowed if pregnancy was forced on someone, especially if that someone is a child, and/or if the mother will not survive. I believe in consequences, but i also believe that you shouldnt have to ruin your body if you never had a choice.
Woody started this by describing himself lol.
If you have fun with someone ypu should either protect against getting pregnant or take the respondibility of what you created.
I think it's cute that Taylor is morally ambiguous when it comes to informing past partners of stds.
wait what
@@nurgle-j5n he doesn't tell his se ual partners about the stds he had while fucking them
I love that this issue is not my problem.
what do you mean
L take
Gets girl pregnant… doh!
This was an incredibly ill informed “debate” on both sides. And as a prolifer I cringed listening to Taylor. he doesn’t even recognize that Woody is saying objectivly wrong statements. Woody is wrong that half of abortions are done by “plan b”. While half of abortions are done with an abortion pill, that is not plan b. Abortions by definition take place after implantation. Plan b is not the same thing as the abortion pill. Its an entirely different type of pill, and works primarily by preventing ovulation, and MAY thin the lining of the uterus, so if the other mechanism fails, the chances of implantation might be lower. And that last mechanism is even debatable whether it happens in scientific literature. And it is perfectly consistent to be ok with plan b and not abortion, but Taylor botches up his reasoning so badly for that. A woman is not pregnant unless implantation has occured, after which plan b will never work.
Abortion isnt a passive action that may or may not harm a embryo. All modern methods directly kill the embryo or fetus. The question is whether that embryo or fetus should be considered a person. If one believes that it is, then it is not inconsistent to oppose it even in cases of a fetus with a severe birth defect. Many of those are detected later in pregnancy, and an abortion isnt simply just “allowing” them to die like a coma patient being unplugged. It involves injecting the fetus with feticide that kills it by stopping the heart, and then removing it via labor induction, or in pieces in a D&E (And sometimes the D&E is done without an injection, which involves a live dismemberment) If a woman had a premature infant at 24 weeks with a severe defect, she would (and should) be allowed to opt for palliative non invasive care until death. But she cannot have a doctor directly kill it. However, if that 24 weeker was still in utero, the law allows killing it even though it is inconsistent. That is what Taylor should have pointed out instead of dismissing it as an outlier, even though It is true that the vast majority of abortions are done on healthy fetuses carried by healthy mothers.
Also, the safe legal and rare stance that kyle likes is nonsensical. Its an attempt to be “moderate” and is logically incoherent. if its not murder, why does it need to be rare? That’s like saying colonoscopies should be “rare” as opposed to available for those who need them. It is much more coherent to be pro-choice and not think it should be “rare”, if its truly a medical procedure that serves as a backstop to imperfect contraception.
I wanna know the RSK thoughts not the PKA thoughts
I've always had the opinion as as long as it doesn't effect me, I don't care. But I wouldn't be able to live with myself if my SO did do it
If you wouldn't be able to live with yourself doing it then why would it be okay for other people to do?
Woody said abortion is fun?? 6:30
Someone please explain this to me. Because I don’t want to not like woody
Well I think it goes to just because something isn’t right doesn’t mean it should be illegal like I mean if you want society to be better we should ban alcohol and tobacco to reduce all the I’ll effects of health that they cause but we’ve tried that it didn’t go over well
What I dont comprehend at all is the same politicians that are anti-abortion are often against plan B and contraceptions
Plan B is abortion, though. Contraceptives are cool
Pleasure and fun is the devil's left testicle or some other republican nonsense bible-beater statement
Oh, it's intentional. The whole idea is control over women's bodies.
@@theduck2970 you’re falling for the most basic propaganda, man.
@@GrrmPleaseWrite That's what you think, Mr Dunning Kruger.
Why not ask China One Child Policy?
Bro what happened to Taylor. This man will be wearing a maga hat for ep 700.
Can’t blame anyone for that. The dems have had a tough couple years of representation they are making themselves look terrible. Dems need to elect better leaders and candidates so we can get shit moving again.
And?
I thought this was america
The plan B argument is fuckin stupid. Taylor showing true colors. Big brain moment.
Utah jazz are da best
Taylor is such a religious zealot somehow
How? I'm not religious and I'm pro life
@@DurkahMurkah I don't know, it's the way he talks and also he called a foetus a baby
@@agent-sz2qj it IS a baby
I agree it’s a life.
I also don’t care what you do with it
Evil
Did you know in some states they are trying to legalize abortion up to 30 days after birth?
Hell yeah I’m pro abortion I do not need more responsibility
Evil
@@DurkahMurkah Taylor I rebuke all judgment
@@DurkahMurkah pro life means anti woman as Carlin
@@InTheBannerOvShadows screw carlin he was an overly cynical boomer libtard
It should be completely illegal 100% they chose to have sex they decided. The child didn’t have a choice.
Here before I hear Woody's braindead copy/paste (open minded) opinions about this matter
The virgin "men shouldn't get to tell women how to use their bodies because they deserve to choose" vs the chad "depends ... what race is the child?"
Before watching Woody's opinion is from reddit and approved by his wife and as far left as possible. Let's see if he's still the same.
Woody is horrible
The correct moral stance is a complete ban with the exception of severe threat to the mother's life. The correct political stance is somewhere near a 16 week ban with the exception of severe threat to the mother's life.
Both can't be correct.
I think there's more reasons to abort than just problems with the mother surviving.
@sherapaige9532 Yes they can, those are two different ethical standards. For example, religiously gay marriage should not be allowed but politically it should.
@@jasonsadberry8420 None that are morally consistent
@@AnEnemyAnenomeif you eat meat, you cant morally support anti abortion laws, its inconsistent.
There are certain criteria that animals lack that makes it okay for us to kill them, legally. A human fetus lacks these same criteria and more, would that make it okay to kill them?
If you support life in all forms, then you are against the killing of animals for food.
is it so hard to take a pill everyday? they brush their teeth everyday, they take a shit everyday, the brush their hair everyday, but taking a pill everyday is beyond them
@10:42 isn't abortion birth control by default? What is he even saying...
Kyle has a surprising amount of insight on both of the arguments. Woody is taking the basic left leaning take. And Taylor has the basic right wing take, but secretly dgaf and wants to play AOE.
But I agree with Taylor, don't stick your baby shooter into the baby maker if you aren't willing to accept the consequences.
At least use protection. Granted, it’s not 100% preventative but it’s still extremely high.
And I think Woody has a valid point about all these unwanted/neglected kids becoming a burden on society. It’s harsh to view a baby that way, but so many of these troubled teens come from f’d parental situations.
accidents happen. If you have applied contraceptives between two consenting adults with the agreement you don't want to have a child, but the applied contraceptive fails as they are capable of doing. Seems unfair to force a product failure onto the consumer.
@@Anoradord I agree, but that’s a rare occurrence. Not only would a device that’s over 99% effective have to fail, it would also have to occur during the 5 day period in the month when a woman can actually conceive.
@xandercrews4729 I think we agree there are a lot of rare circumstances where someone goes "well... I get it".
My point entirely is saying is sex in the 21st century shouldn't blanket be an 18 to life commitment.
Imo abortion should be legal and accessible. Humans could do with more population control. Stimulates the economy and the quality of child care goes up when only wanted children are born
what happened to unserious takes about politics on PKA now its just white men talking about their feelings smh
BASED TAYLOR
Woody is disgusting.
I like the point of conception argument but would take it even further. Every miscarriage should be investigated as a murder until proven not to be caused by the Mother’s actions because a life is a life.
That's actually insane thinking.
@@jasonsadberry8420 okay baby murderer 🙄😂
@zakoryus you think every miscarriage should be investigated as murder, your brain dead. I never killed one baby, but I have a pretty good reason why it's okay.
And I can tell your a man, probably never had sex or kids, nor adopted the ones that the parents didn't want. So your opinion means nothing
It is very easy to come to a Pro-Life conclusion on the issue logically. It is not simply a remnant of religious thinking.
Neither side has any real scientific evidence to support their argument on whether or not it is a life. So, each side has equal standing when making their claim.
If the Pro-Life side is wrong, then the worst that has happened is that women had been oppressed. If the Pro-Choice side is wrong, then that is one of the worst crimes and tragedies in the history of humanity. So, naturally, *just to be safe*, the Pro-Life side is the correct side to stand on as of now.
Spoken like it came from the mind of an uninformed teenager.
Spoken like someone who hasn't been aborted @@jacos133
You will bow down to China piggu
"Neither side has any real scientific evidence to support their argument on whether or not it is a life." - Stopped reading here. You might well be medically retarded.
First