More monitors = slower MacBooks | M1 Max/Pro with several 4k
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- I plugged in multiple monitors, one at a time, into each of my MacBooks (M1 Max, two M1 Pro, and a M1 MacBook Air) to see how building an Xcode benchmark would degrade. I also used a OWC Thunderbolt 4 hub in the test.
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#m1 #m1max #m1pro #xcode #monitors
Machines
M1 Pro with 8C CPU, 14C GPU 32GB RAM
M1 Pro with 10C CPU, 16C GPU 16GB RAM
M1 Max with 10C CPU, 32C GPU 64GB RAM
M1 MacBook Air with 8C CPU 16GB RAM
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Just realised I've never seen the homepage of stack overflow
True
Same. Didn’t even know it had a homepage 😂
I was hoping you would test with the screens just connected, not running other apps. The question being does merely having the screens connected at all affect performance. Obviously the benchmark will be affected by other stuff running. :-)
Sure but if you have other displays, you will use them with other tasks probably. If you connect other displays but plan not to use them, then you shouldn't plug them in at all.
@@guipo2581 yep,in that case he should start the tests with all apps open and then connect monitors to see a real performance.
i would have thought that too. but it seems like just plugging them in had almost no effect to RAM use on the 16 GB M1 Pro 16” which is bizarre to me given unified memory is gpu memory! i know pushing in a 4k to my old MBP 15” turns the fans on straight away as it switches to discrete GPU.
@@guipo2581 bullshit. I use 3 displays in video and audio production. Only 1 program is working. The most stupid thing is watching 3 RUclips videos simultaneously! Most stupid test I’ve seen.
@Alexander Chudopalov I see. Your use case is more specific than most users, at least for those that consume the content of this channel. I think other programmers would have vs code open, an external terminal and many chrome tabs open, as well as a debugger or an simulator, so I think this test is not stupid at all, even if people doesn't watch many RUclips videos at the same time, the point is that the chrome tabs are open and the pixels in the external displays are being used and renderized again, with probably most users use case, witch is chrome tabs open doing some search, listening to music and watching an tutorial video or a podcast
Each 4K pushes roughly 18 GB/s bandwidth. TB3 and TB4 can carry 40GB/s. This is why you can only get two of the displays through the dock. That is a technology bottleneck, not a dock or M1 issue.
RUclips definitely does NOT push 18GB/s. That figure would be assuming around 8 x 4k video 10bit streams (as 4k @10bit is ~18Gbps not 18GB/s), 4k youtube is nowhere near that level.
I have run 3x 4k monitors off 1 Usb 3.1 channel which carried 2x DP + 1 HDMI connection over it. The same system had an additional on-board DP connection and a HDMI port.
If thunderbolt cannot do this on the Mac, then that is definitely a Mac issue. Given that previously these same models were having issues running more than a single monitor without bricking or crashing, then that backs up the theory it is an OS/hardware issue that is not thunderbolt related.
@@slipoch6635 You need to read how TB works, if you're running a display-port channel on that interface then it allocates the bandwidth for a display-port signal, this is a lossless, zero latency, always available, not affected by content, zero CPU load channel of video. If you wish to stream video over USB then you can do all sorts of tricks - but thats not Apple as the experience is not consistent.
@@edc1569 How this hub will work with 1k monitors? Will support additional 3 monitors ?
You always collect so much data, some on-screen overlays with charts and graphs would sure be appreciated. Thanks for the video and keep up the great work!
For me this was the most useful video among those about m1 macs because it realistically shows what to expect from those models. thank you very much.
Thanks very much for making this. Good to see the 16” Max comfortably sits at low/no fans with these many displays attached while my Intel 16” would be 100% fans and melting into the desk.
Even with only one display the intel one goes crazy!
what about when you need to share the screen? I need to disconnect my monitors (MPB intel 16")
Seriously….gotta upgrade cause of it, dang intel!
mine goes nuts with one 4k display only forget running 2 or 3.
My 2019 Intel with one monitor and it becomes useless. It become crawling slow as well. If I need to get work done I need to unplug from it. It sucks
I'm not sure I understand the test: you're plugging monitors, makes sense but then play 4K videos on them.
Build times are longer but isn't it because playing videos uses resources?
When changing 2 things at the same time, measurements don't answer the initial question anymore.
Sounds to me like you're testing the impact of running more things during the build, which as a result makes it slower (and it's not related to the GPU driving monitors)
Still watching tho
I have to agree. It even says when he runs the benchmark, "Please do not use your Mac while XcodeBenchmark is in progress". Sometimes his tests just don't make sense.
@@mattbosley3531 oh haha yeah and then he unplugs the video recorder output on the M1 Pro, which was HDMI and mistakenly not counted as a monitor on the M1 Max earlier.
I mean at least we can roughly conclude is that it's fine to use external monitors, without having fans go crazy as with the previous gens, from the much less efficient discrete GPU.
Actually, the M1 air gets a lot slower because it does not a fan. I found that out plugging it to a 1440p monitor. Intel macs get slower also. Its the heat!! It will also take a hit on battery life
@@nyambe but does it get slower because of the extra GPU usage and memory bandwidth to drive and refresh the monitor, or because of the task running on it?
@François Simond (supercurio) whether it's gpu or because of resources used by multitasking . These machines are expected to handle those , so why not test them ?
it may get slower due to heat and on how much longer the monitors are plugged in and on what you are working on.
Since most of us are spending these much money on these machines . Why not test them on how we use it on daily basis ?
Playing a 4k videos on xcode build may not occur frequently but running build during a playing a video or on a video call with team may be a frequent task for someone who works remote
Now I am curious how long these machine can remain cool with all the monitors plugged in the whole day
Finally it's here , thanks for the tests 🔥
This setup shows how most of us Devs work and these videos help us to decide what machine to get.
My Intel Mac used to get lot hotter and drop performance in such use cases .
M1 Air and M1 pro seems to be less fit to my use case. ( I was okay with their performance until this video ) but now that I have seen this video it changed my mind . Better cooling do seems to have an impact
Anyone who are planing to spends money on these machines will love your videos , these test helps a lot .
I use 3x 4k monitors, and the only reason I need M1 Max is for 3 screens .. :-/
Same. Kinda frustrating. Although you can Airplay to a AppleTV 4k. You can also attach a iPad Pro and use that as another screen.
Thanks, that's a great video. Far too often laptops are tested running only on the internal screen but that's now how we use them in reality.
Of course the second time is faster. Everything is cached in the ram and you are increasing the load (the youtube vid) after each test. This is not benchmarking the monitors. You would need to use the same load with and without the external monitors and compare that.
There's no point in testing CPU performance here... Of course CPU will be affected a bit - to handle all those windows - and especially if you run some apps in background but that's all. GPU will be more used, especially its VRAM (in this situation - just main RAM)
In your video of course RAM usage were higher, and build times were slower on more monitors - because you simply run more apps / Chrome tabs - come on 😀
Also: If you have more RAM installed, OS will obviously try to use more RAM because what's the point of having RAM and not using it?
What could be more interesting from such videos would be: fan speeds, temperatures, GPU performance...
Here is a little TIP if you use any of the scaling options theat give the little warning that says "using scaled resolution may effect performance" you are actually forcing the monitor to run at a higher than 4K setting. The 2560x1440 mode actually runs as 4096X2304 and the retina mode will be 5K downscaled so MacOS thinks the monitor isn't a 4k but a 5K monitor. This will tax the GPU by nearly 30% more than if you use the default scale which is 1080PX2 or 4K. This isn't an issue until you need to use the GPU for anything other than displays, so if you need the GPU for video editing you should rescale the displays to get the maximum power available. Also in the display settings if you hold the Option Key and click the scaled bubble you can set the display to more resolutions in both Retina and regular scaled resolutions.
always in the past when I've had I think 2 external on intel macbook, the computer becomes slower or refresh rate did. it was a lot for the gpu to handle.
The reason I ended up with the Max is because the Pro would only support two monitors. Even after an Apple Genius told me it would in clamshell mode but nope!
Same here.
I was waiting for this video because I have an MBP 16" intel and always I connect a 4k monitor the performance is really bad and gets worst when I need to share screen (discord, teams, or any other). I wanted to know how the performance goes with these new M1 Pro processors. Thanks a lot!!! am I ok saying that the M1 Pro 10/16 is better than the MBP 16" intel with 4k monitors plugged in?
@@whatsappme4987 😱 Sorry, What this means? did I win something? because usually, I don't 😂 🙏 Thanks.
Just superb as usual. Thank you. I have maxed out my new MBP 16 M1 Max with two 6K XDRs and a 4K Wacom Cintiq monitor/pen tablet. Everything works great and truly replaces my Intel iMac Pro. Also, I use the CalDigit Thunderbolt Hub which works flawlessly.
I have my m1 max 64gb hooked to one Pro Display XDR and I feel a significant performance hit when using Final Cut Pro. Do you have any idea why I am seeing this performance dip? I get beach balls and it just feels slower.
@@hunterbird7877 do not scale your resolution, only use native res
7:35 isn't that what she said?
seems 16 inch 16 gb macbook pro is the best bang for buck.
Great video!
Can you please (pretty please) add time codes to your videos?
Finally, someone test the external monitors, thanks Alex
your sound so sad for the macbook air, its the peoples apple hardware lol
In my home/work setup I am using OWC Dock with 3 thunderbolt ports, ethernet and 4 USB ports, it is nice when I switch between home and work computer with one cable change. I have one ultra wide screen 49' 5120x1440 120Hz, 3 dongles for wireless keyboard, mouse and headset, webcam, ethernet and android device all connected to the dock. Switch between two machines is as easy as connect dock to one or second machine.
One grain of sand in this machine is MacOS Monterey couse it doesn't remember refresh rate settings after update from Big Sur on additional screen and always set ProMotion that causes blinking and I have to manualy switch to120Hz over and over again.
I don't think the monitors themselves hurt very much the performance, I think the additional chrome tabs did because chrome eats a lot of RAM.
I have a question, if I have 4k monitor and I use a default scaled at 2560x1440. When I watch content on RUclips or Netflix can I watch it at 4k resolution while the scaled of display are still at 2560x1440. Thank you.
Working with 2-3 external Monitors. 2 of them 4k one below that. Doing stuff for Graphics design (Illustrator, Blender, Lightroom, etc.) and rendering a 4k Video next to that for my Sidehustle. What Chip and how much RAM yall would say i should get?
Hope someone can help me!
Do you have a reason why not using mag safe which will provide more power than usb-c ? If you can retest with mag safe connected and not using usb-c PD.
"When are you ever on the homepage of StackOverflow?" is almost like one of those Zen riddles "if a tree falls in the forest..."
😂
It's interesting that you prefer 1440p scaling on 4K displays. MacOS handles that in a rather GPU tasking way by upscaling and mapping.
Try doing a GPU machine learning test while adding external displays. This will give the GPUs some work to do and lower their numbers. Trying to run the blender benchmark on a MacBook air scaling a 4K monitor to 1440p it really slow.
what app are you using to see the temperature and fan speed? thank you
Get TG Pro: a.paddle.com/v2/click/114/137247?link=48
Very interesting and practical video for us developers.
Thanks for doing this! I'd absolutely love it if u could do this for the 14" macbook pro m3 pro vs m3 max using a DisplayLink hub. But knowing you, ur probably not short on ideas for videos, haha
Now that you've mentioned it, I'm going to make that comment...
that's
what
she
said
Something that I've seen with my intel 2019 macbook pro and my m1 mac mini 16 gb is that there is a process named "WindowsServer" which is related to the screens (I have two 28" 4k monitors). What its interesting about this process, is the RAM consumption keeps growing as time passes. I tried killing the process to recover the ram, which ends up closing the session which would be the same as rebooting. So, so far, this looks like a ram leak. What do you think?
I have exactly the same problem. I use 2 4K Monitors with my 2019 MacBook Pro 13 inch with 16gb of ram, which becomes unusable after 2-3 hours when running IntelliJ and Docker. WindowServer then nearly needs 5-6GB ram on its own…
Could you please do a video about programming monitors buying guide?
Lol old vid but wish it got to the point a bit faster. Entertaining tho
Can you do the same with intel based MacBook Pro, please.
Linus needs MOAR VIEWS haha
The caldigit element thunderbolt 4 hub looks like the owc but it has four USB A and three USB C / thunderbolt ports. It just offers more. Although I don't know which delivers more watts to the laptop. I think caldigit can deliver 60W, enough for a 13" or Air.
Not bad, but definitely more expensive. Im waiting for owc’s 14 port dock which is on backorder. Have been using their t3 dock for years and love it.
Thanks for the video, how much Hz at 4K can I use on the m1 max at the best, only 60hz?(for one)
You got to laugh at Apple. What a load of rubbish by selling such expensive machines and you cant even do something as basic as connecting 2 monitors? but yet the apple sheep will still buy into this crap.
I am peaty sure that the ramp of RAM usage is due to the Chrome tabs that you open after the initial test
Thanks Alexander for doing and showing this 👍
While the tests might not have been so scientific when it comes to showing only the impact of added monitors, since the tasks running were increased too, it still demonstrated well how and what works in practice. Of course one could argue that if you have more monitors you are more likely to have more things going on in parallel, so from that point of view your addition of tasks (videos in this case) is imo relevant, even if it no longer compares the same load with only more monitors added.
The maximum 2 screens limit on the M1 Pro is a real bummer, why Apple oh why, sigh.
Btw, if you are using 4k resolution on a 4k screen, you are no longer scaling, you are using the screen at its intended native resolution. Any other case is scaled, but not the native resolution.
I agree that 4k native resolution is too small if you use it on 27…28” screen, but if you use 32” screens you can use it fine at native resolution and with 3 such screens fit an insane amount of information on them, since it equals 12 full HD screens. Problem is, once you get used to that, anything else feels very cramped and paralysing 😀
What if you close macbook’s display for the m1 pro? Will it work with 3 displays?
Amazing review again. You're becoming one of my go to reviewer especially for MacBook. Thanks man.👏🏼
Just wondering, do you have any multimonitor setup using thunderbolt 3 with docking station? Would really love to see some great monitor options (budget) for creative work live photo and video editing. And also probably can do daisy chain and multi device (mac & PC setup using same display, keyboard, mouse, etc).
Keep creating great contents. Thanks alot 👍👍👍
@AZisk, do you use Atem mini extreme ISO to record your videos or you use software switcher like OBS/Ecamm? Would be great to see a video about your studio setup!
i use the Atem to record. speeds up my workflow greatly at the cost of higher resolution.
What monitors are you using in this video?
Super video. Thanks Alex.
thank you! exactly the info i was looking for
Great Video. Running my Max 64 GB for two days now. Migration was seamless and power with native arm software is awesome. Intel apps run on Rosetta roughly the same speed as on my old i7 2019 model. Only about 5% of my software is still Intel and all are little tools that are neither important nor hungry for power
been asking someone to do external display and multiple monitors with various RAM configs for a long time. at last! unified memory changes everything so these tests are important.
maybe i even asked you. if so thanks heaps.
don’t forget that even though you have the 4k displays scaled down to HD or whatever, they are still retina displays and so i believe that if you have images or videos on the screen they will display them at native pixel resolution, ie at the highest résultions the gpu can match to the display native pixel res. that’s what i understand retina to be about anyhow. happy to be corrected.
so what i’m saying is when you scale down a display it does that with all the chrome and text etc of the GUI but certain areas of the screen displaying media will push as many pixels as the display can handle to increase the image quality. is that true?
What dock did you use to get 2 monitors on the M1 Pro? I'm trying to do that, and unfortunately my current dock that worked perfectly for my windows laptop to have 2 monitors doesn't let me use 2 monitors on the M1 Pro. Very sad. All the docks I'm finding online that support 2 monitors for the M1 Pro are like $300.
I don't want 2 extended displays. I want AAB, one mirrored display and one extended display. I will use the laptop in clamshell mode
Does your 4k monitor shows texts blurry when connected to newest MacBook Pro?
Haha you are insane
Thanks man!
Alexander is a 10X RUclipsr
man this video is a gold!!!! big thanks
Your videos convinced me that I need one of the new MacBooks, now the only problem is the money :/
I've never seen stack overflow's homepage I believe...lol
Cool video, but it doesn’t really answer its central question… at all.
The benchmark test is going to be effected whether you stack processes on one monitor or three… the way you did the tests it’s impossible to extrapolate how much additional monitors are contributing to the slowing of the benchmark.
Maybes redo the tests, or simply don’t add to the workload by running additional processes… the entire point of the benchmark is to provide a controlled variable to give an accurate baseline.
Maybe a little bit of this overhead comes by the RUclips Video and Browser you opened on your Monitors and not by rendering a second and third screen?
does a second monitor impact my macbook’s battery life?
Can you do this same reset on the new M3 MacBooks???
Great comparation. Did you have any trouble with hub (M1 Max) or did you do everything well? I saw a video where there were a lot of problems with hubs from different manufacturers.
Im getting a Mac studio in the mail today: M1 Max 10 core cpu, 32 core gpu, 64GB RAM, 1 TB and I am basically just getting hyped for the delivery by watching all of you benchmarking videos!
Hello! Please help with choice external monitor for MBP14. Ethernet reviews say what now the best external monitors is
GIGABYTE M32U, GIGABYTE M28U, LG 27UP850-W, but what is better for MBP14 scaling ppl, 32'' 4k or 27''4k?
If you buy Displaylink certified hardware you can add more monitors. I'm able to have 4 external monitors on my m1 iMac. Of course this is for software engineer work. If you're working with video stuff your machine might blow up 😆
Hello Alex!
I am thinking of buying the new macbook pro m2 pro 32gb/1tb to use it for professional software development.
I have two 32 inch 4k external monitors and one of them supports hdmi 2.1
Do you think that it will be quiet?
Is there any advantage to go for the max model?
I am not doing graphics or video so I believe there is no reason to go for the max series.
Thank you!
Can I do it the same but with three 4k 120hz monitors? After that would be possible to plug in a dac with amp and the sound card for microphone?
Confused what you are testing here. You are opening more apps as you are testing, which naturally will eat more RAM and CPU.
You sure it is number of monitors and not the processes you running while compiling? What If u run Only 1 monitor but with RUclips playing while compiling? I guess to test If monitor is affecting performance you just need to connect the monitor but not running any other processes to be accurate
I mean what else would u expect lol
To me, it doesn't seem like you're necessarily seeing slowdown because you're using more monitors. You've got videos playing on those monitors. Play those same videos and have those same windows open on 1 monitor and 2 and 3 and 4. Otherwise, nothing really has been proved. There's a reason the Xcode benchmark has that message about not doing other things while you test.
Do you have done the test with MacBook Air M2 and monitor?
Now that it doesn't have a fan, it will get hotter than the Macbook air M1 test.
I believe this test is not accurate!
You didn't set the monitors to 4K resolution, and playing 4K videos in lower resolution won't push the CPU as if they were playing in full screen 4K.
Please try the test again, but this time set all of the monitors to 4K
Same thing for PC. Driving a bunch of high resolution displays are bandwidth intensive…which requires computing resources cpu; GPU; RAM.
And I was scared if I buy an Alienware 38(3840 x 1600) inch monitor and a m1 max, the m1 max would be choppy on the screen(for programming and browsing).
i would add a three minute conclusion and summary to the end of the us video. i drifted off during parts of it as i was waking down the street. just wanna know the raw specs and results of testing not the blah blah blah. ;-)
How to set up 3 monitors. 🙏🙏🙏
Bro…. TIMESTAMPS?!
Usb 4 docks aka thunderbolt has a limit on 2 6k screens per port if using a dock
You could technically have another display using an ipad with sidecar.
I have the base config m1pro 14in. In my case, can I run 3 full hd monitors?
Timestamps PLZ
Hello, I would like to know how can you rotate your external monitors, meaning the vertical monitors. I cannot rotate mine using the M1 MacBook Air with Monterey OS.
You should have ran multiple build passes before plugging in monitors or you could have done the last build after plugging in monitors due to caches and SSD optimization.
Given what I've seen of Apple's engineering on the software side of things I'd be surprised if they did proper clearing between runs.
I've been running two 4K monitors with a DisplayLink hub on my Macbook Pro M1 (not M1 Pro) and have noticed some interesting things. Apps like Spotify which have tiny little animations when music is playing (although they've recently changed that) use a ridiculous amount of CPU, same goes for Slack with animated GIFs etc. I've gotten to the point where if I need max power (or to save battery) I'll minimize those apps. This happens even if the apps are displaying on the laptop's screen.
Spotify on my mac sometimes takes up to 2gb of ram. idk why
Hold on. How is it possible? M1 support only one external display due to IO limitations. Am I wrong?
@@Ilinskiya aha! That's the trick 😁 I have a USB-C DisplayLink hub with 2 HDMI outputs. Just need to install DisplayLink software and off you go
I wonder if the cpu also working with the ram hinders the cpu earlier than it would with the previous generation.
I can see how the cpu managin ram helps ram but I don’t see how this makes the cpu more efficient. They made more powerful cpu chips and are somewhat wasting it on helping the ram
I have the 24 core 16" M1 Max with both the laptop screen and two 2k displays running (one at 144Hz). It seems largely unaffected by the monitors in terms of performance. The fans stay completely off unless I get to some heavier work where most of the CPU cores are being pushed, then one of the fans kick in at 1500 RPM which is to my ears completely silent (I do audio work btw).
On the intel i9, the same lighter work would have both fans spinning at 5000 RPM because simply connecting the monitor heats up the GPU so much that any load on the CPU on top of that just sends it flying. Actual heavy load with monitors attached would severely throttle and underclock the i9. So happy Apple went away from intel.
I just hate the fact, that control center has a memory leak and is using a huge amount of RAM. It seems it’s the same with your machines. Had to restart it several times
Anyone knows if m1 max can run 2x pro displays without any problems?
It’s more efficient for karnal to leave stuff in RAM, deallocations cost CPU cycles. More RAM you have more likely the kernel will just leave stuff in there. Plus you might still use it later, so if you do it’s already there for you saving a trip to the storage drive that’s orders of magnitude slower to access. Whereas more memory constrained devices are more likely going to cause the Kernal to preemptively free memory as it feels it’s under more memory pressure.
Is it possible the time different (and RAM usage) cause by extra chome run in background? But not the extra monitor.
Poor linus and his small group of followers ;)
I know. I just gave him half of his viewership
Nice
Most of the time it is not software limitation, it depends on how many thunderbolt chips it has, it would probably handle even up to 8 ( I know it'll have some reduced FPS sometimes and so on, but it's still handling ), but as M1 is not Intel CPU, it has dedicated thunderbolt chips inside, but trick there is that, I remember it has 3 thunderbolts, but HDMI is not using thunderbolt indeed, so you discovered bug I think, it thinks all Thunderbolts are allocated, but it is not. Don't quote me on that, but it's probably bug. but it can be Apple, manually reducing number of monitors connected from SmC, or something like that, for same reasons as they did reduce performance on iPhones for years ))) to sell higher priced models, so both cases I don't think you'll be able to avoid that limit with external adapters, if it hits hardware limitation (every thunderbolt chip is allocated) then it'll not be physically able to handle more monitors, and for that case when you use 1 monitor with HDMI, again, either it's SmC, or Software limiting it so it'll not let you connect more.
Results are obvious. The memory is unified, shared between CPU and GPU. Hi-res screens eat a lot of memory. You'll need 32 gigs at least for such play. But I guess most devs will do fine with one external monitor.
So, to clarify, a high res screen will use more of my RAM or GPU memory?
@@joelm.8340 On these macs, GPU has no memory of its own. It uses RAM, hence unified memory
@@ukaszb5694 awesome. Thanks
I wonder how this setup would degrade the battery of the Laptop
@Alexander Ziskind - I think MacOS compresses the ram when there is a lot of ram used...
world best realistic review No. 1 Channel! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
How does the m1 MacBooks behave when streaming your screen for ex remote pair/mob programming