oh boy this is going to be long: First, I'm t500 in sup and sometimes peaking into tank(tank on other acc cause main is stuck at m5 but i have gm acc idk), i ended in low diamond at the end of overwatch 1 (playing a year before ow2 but always a fan of overwatch since 2016 but had not pc), upgraded from laptop to pc season 3. I coach the game for fun and I am really deep in the theoretical knowledge of this game. and mid master on dps, not saying im bad at dps but i cant diff people on game knowledge anymore. Secondly, thank you for posting content like this, I know 6v6 arguments get really annoying and repetitive, casuals hate the yap. however, It is annoying because every argument is met with STFU, lies, misconstrued information, or met with with block ears. corrections: tank trades aways happen if there is a tank on both team still on the field. 5v5 as soon as a tank dies that's the end of the tank trades. 6v6, tank trades start, but when you lose a tank, you can still have that tank trades to keep alive the fight and win resources for your team and help enable them, depending how well you do it. The misconception that tank trades is a thing you start when a tank dies is wrong and might be because of 5v5. Let me explain: 5v5 tank trades don't matter at all because the game is less of a positional based resource game, the tank interaction between both tanks are worth a lot less, we use to have getting that extra swing against a rein 6v6 mattered more cause you build ult quicker and the tank is not getting insta healed and the hp are smaller so dmg matters against a tank as a tank more, you can win your team resources and feel good. now you swing and nothing happens, I get diffed by plat players as a t500 tank on rein because everything i am doing doesn't matter because there is no depth into the game (and points before). Half way writing i realized that i don't want to type much and so I'm just going to state from now on with little explanations, just tell me if you want an explanation Tank: you are mainly right nothing much to correct but its a lot of explanations if you want to go in-depth stuff that they need to do ----) make doom dps again because he is broken (will go into if you want me to). doom doesn't function as a 6v6 tank, mauga giving shout to himself, and same as JQ. and please not have tank ult charge reduction please, there is no point to play well on tank and diff when you cant be the first one to get ult in the lobby even when you are doing really well. dps: It feel mediocre, and its not because of the format, It is caused by season 9 and passives, so hitbox, dmg tweaks, denial/reactive abilities or buffing proactive abilities like moria orb or ana nades that were proactive, now it becomes defensive. Hp is a big offender (aka ttk(time to kill)), how to fix it -----) remove all passive, but global healing healing passive (increase the timer until it procs because not all things scale the same make it only QOL) and keeping stuff like boop resistance for rein and tank global healing passive has to be the same as everyone and not scaling just because they have larger hp, hp all revert to 200 and rescale the dmg numbers and everything to how it was cause they were basically doing that with each patch anyway but slowly (blizzard moment), this is a big one and will be a concern for people latter down the line which is mobility creep, revert hitbox, and more. all this serves to take away from people and less the play revering the reactive abilities and stuff like why does brig have amour (they did it because its lore no joke, not even balance, brig has amour cause it makes sense in lore) sups: i think we know how baby fed this role is, I've already half explained it how to fix in the dps stuff. also stuff like que times on tank is a bunch of horse P**P. we know this resolves around balance, like season 7 where no one want to play dps because of healing numbers (which introduced passives to the game, and the auto playstyle of the game and all because of 5v5, but not going to go down all the way with that route). we know, a lack of characters mean that no one want to play it, happened with support in ow 1 where the song " should of picked mercy" because there were no sup players. ques shot up because of reactive, denial abilities that F the cycles of characters like winston, because he only has 1 cycle if he presses bubble.(aka not getting a kill because of bull) not fun for casuals, I can go on and on and on why the claim people don't want to play tank because its tank is wrong. But you know, apparently high rank players or professional coaches don't know what's it is like for causals, surely not, when coaches spend the most of their time with low to mid rank players, this game was never balance for us, it was always for gold players. I don't know, its like this, I am a math mathematician and having random people trying to explain to me math that is completely wrong and say I don't know what I'm talking about is really frustrating. Its like we are talking to a brick wall because we know best for all ranks of play. Its a fallacy. and people like to pit us against each other for some reason (your overwatch aka. freedo) cough. now he taking the lead in the conversation because people are moving on. rant done, but i hope this game heals.
I try to come at these conversations with equal ground because I know people have different experiences so I hope my videos kinda reflect that. You totally opened my mind to the tank trade! 5v5 vs 6v6 feels so different in that aspect. I do like the feeling of tanking for the team and drawing out certain recourses, like if I charge and cancel as a Rein if I can get a few cooldowns from that or maybe even an ult and live, that DOES feel good in 5v5, it's just in 6v6 I felt like I could do so much more than that. Maybe it's cuz i don't like being the center of attention irl lol. I NEVER liked the hitbox changes with season 9. I was in discord saying how much I hated it when it came out and now people are just realizing the arguments I had about it even as a low rank player. Don't make the game easier for me, getting good is what feels good, don't take that away from me ya know? Not to mention how many reverts they've done since then... Yeah I like to say I main supps and I just had a Bap game I carried and literally said in chat "its not me, baps just broken." They are op when they support and op when they dps (like in ow2) we NEED to find a healthy balance. LOL I think a BUNCH of higher elo players know because most of them started low as well (from what I see) As someone who is heavily invested in game design I can totally see the frustration of players after all these years. I fell in love with a dying game (another video coming soon) and I thank you for providing this insightful comment. Ima pin it for a while if you don't mind. I truly hope this can bring about positive conversation so we can make this game what everyone knows it can be.
@@hiimz to start off we all have our biases, and i by no means are perfect, sometimes i come off as passive aggressive when its not warranted, mainly due to frustration by that is no means an excuse (emotions are within my arguments too/wording). START(CD BAITS)(CYCLES)(5v5 vs 6v6 tanking): baiting CD is a core fundamental of tanking in overwatch no matter the format. The difference is that different tanks have different pressure cycles. rein needs to chill when his shield gets low, winston no bubble, zarya no bubbles and so on. Its all about cycling. The issue is tanks get left behind because how they are designed. they are design to have down time, and times of weakness within their CD. so to compensate this they changed it up by Giga buffing tanks and making them so that they can have higher uptime and trying to make all tanks function similar to each other(they failed badly counter watch 101 it got worse). tanks in 5v5 that do not have cycles or need cycles, like when they buff orisa fortify, or buffing rein shield, or mauga cardiac duration, so that they can stand infront 24/7 often are always meta. So when you bait CD as a tank, the point is to make it so you control the positional aspect of the game, it makes it so that your team does more dmg and receives less dmg. However, It feels better in 6v6 because since they are weaker and have a reliance on their CD usage and how well they use it, by baiting a zarya bubble for example, makes it so they cant push and you can do dmg that matters. It is not bailed out by Raw HP numbers or low CD or double bubbles. they have to respect that space you forced because they miss used their CD and they will get punish if they stay on that position, or preventing them from pushing. another upside to this is that the design space of overwatch is 6v6 is so much better because because you can have tanks that have weaknesses because of the other tank covering your downtime(and since they are lower hp any role can capitalize, cause hitting your cd or shots skillfully forces the tank covering for the other tank mistake to respect you. cause get a kill or force space which you can snowball it)(it also gives the other team the opportunity to fight back because there is still that tank trade) SEASON 9 (HITBOX, PASSIVES ) I think no one liked the HitBox changes, but it was a necessary evil for what they where going for(it was wrong), the point in season 9 was to stop low rank players from blowing up. casual players love to stand main and not use cover or minimally use it. However, the removal of the secondary tank made space easily accessible, people where getting into the backline and you would see people getting deleted off the map. say your playing tank, without that second tank there is nothing you can do to stop them from accessing your backline and making them work for it as you as a player don't have that freedom to roam. so the game turned from a positional based resource game with FPS aspects, to a resource game based FPS (so more emphasis on the reliance of less game sense and more you need to kill or you are trolling). This can be called a preference, however coming back to the issue of casuals can't do anything but stand main because its fun for them, - HISTORY: - speed run: so the devs buff sups to be more self-sufficient, but dps didn't like how they couldn't kill anything, so they introduced dps passive and HP buffes, when buffing hp you need the players to hit more shot or no one is dying because of ttk, they change hitboxes with it, however this disproportionally made tanks so hard to play because you peak you die right away, so they introduce hs passive to give tanls passive fortify, but they were a role where you get deleted or you dont die depending of counterswaping, no one want to play that style of tank, so they giga buff tanks, then tanks became useless because you cant interact with the other tank and diff them, and you still get held hostage by CDs. now here we are is a broken game, but i think the game is fairly balanced for the average rank players, however you get punish for climbing. That's why 6v6 is better as a core base and the hard ranked players because you can sit main in average ranks and not get deleted off the map, and when someone feeds its not over (that's why season 9 again). necessary evil. but they should of taken the L and reverted season 9 because you cant fix tank, you can alleviate it by balance and reworks or certain hero design from the sups and tank category but some issues will still be prevalent because of the solo tanking experience Your skill will not be taken away from you ("its not me, baps just broken."): You say that you main bap, and you are not bad by playing a role that is babied, its that the game players for you and prevents skillfulness of hero's, like, cover useage, rotations, and CD useage, reading the fight to make decision on who to heal. If one day they nerf all sups to the ground, you and i probably will stay the same ranks, because it affects everyone, some might drop a rank, and some might climb in a rank, not everyone is going to perform in every state of the game. It's just the state of this game at the moment, by existing as a support you deny everyone else's experience of the game, sup will be harder in the move to 6v6, but people adapt. Its like how mercy mains use to be skillful in movement and the same with moria to perform(thats why you cant buff moria because there is no skill ceiling on that hero anymore), now they dumb it down and its not a needed skill that much and requires zero effort, you have most mercy mains kinda braindead or play other heros or left the game. again its the fault of the game. You have skills and knowledge of the game that the people below you don't and that is not going to take it away from you. I think that type of mindset people have "its not me, baps just broken." trickles down from discussion people have about this game and its state. the argument is that when a casual player ana player looks at high rank ana play there is no difference. "I am doing the same thing" kinda talk. there is a difference but fundamentally we are doing the same thing, and almost getting the same value. another note all these points is that one tricks are a indication of a healthy overwatch. HIGH ELO TAKE: being higher rank is a indication of understanding this game but it is not a fact. most people in high masters don't understand the game fully, and even in the 0.1% of the game you have some people who are not interested or don't understand balance. its an indication and the higher you climb the more intellects you will find, its just a factor that helps. I don't like how freedo uses that to shut down every argument (he doesn't discuss he just reacts to videos but says you are high rank so you are bias end of conversation). ENDING: These conversations need to happen because, I also love this game, the only reason why I am typing or people arguing for 6v6 or 5v5 in depth is passion for the game. From a game not seen and update for 4 years to work on pve and experiencing how fun the game was to me at the end of OW1 life, I would hop on and get mad sometimes(alot) but i always come back ready and excited to play more. (the claim burnt out shouldn't be an argument). To now barely playing an hour or nowadays only playing because i loved this game and feeling better than other people through skill. I really hope I dont move on from this masterpiece to play a new game, because nothing is like what overwatch brought me.
@@hiimz another thing. For someone who is only an overwatch 2 player, you really follow your research and are getting deep into overwatch, from the podcast, emoung and flats duo, very reasonable points, understanding of proactivity, niche videos on both sides, I am supprised you know who wizzardhyeoung is.
6v6 is just soo good! 5v5 never really felt fun for me, coming from ow1 and I really think if they remove 6v6 for good, I will just quit the game and move one, which is a massive shame, as I genuinely love the game. As for the tank role I used to main tank and support in ow1 but when 5v5 came around I stopped playing tank because it just felt miserable. It feels so refreshing to play tank again in 6v6!
I've been fighting the 6v6 battle on the common platforms since the announcement of 5v5. I do, in fact feel validated seeing several 5v5ers praising the test and format! The icing on the cake would the format being added to the game permanently! Cheers from another Hanzo player though! This firerate is everything I could wish for! He is still one of the weaker heroes even in 6v6, but he actually *feels* so good to play! I've also returned to tank with 6v6. I despise playing the role in 5v5, and only play it to maintain GM rank. And I have the same experience as you do - tanking is actually fun and I find myself *wanting* to actually play it! Most of my time in 6v6 has been playing tank, and haven'thad this much fun since OW1. I want this format back.
I hope they bring 6v6 to competitive tho I wonder how bad the tank queues will be since tank was the least played role in OW1. I don't mind flanking Kirikos tbh because she requires some skill unlike moira. I also think they should definitely keep the healing passive at least because I thought it was a great addition to the game.
@@hiimz Yea idk I really like role queue so I wouldn't want open queue to be the only option. I think more ppl would tank if 6v6 was a thing and it would probably bring more players into the game. I think a big issue with 6v6 is also tank synergy so for example some tank duos are really strong whereas if you play hog and something like zarya its probably pretty bad so idk what the solution is to that.
@@random1237brainwashed take, you guys echoing what 5v5sexuals were saying and most of it is straight up wrong. Tank synergies are widely loved and known to make ow unique across all playerbase, they only switched to 1 tank with queue time as an excuse, which is fixable
Me and one of my OW1 support duos are now mostly playing tank, and its fun. Having a second tank, makes things so much better. Its also very fun to be an off tank for newer tank players, helping them take risks, and giving support and follow up.
Certainly fixed my beef with Tanks. I don't mind the passives staying on. Goats meta was a thing back in the day because the high health pools of tanks and high healing provided by supports was just so sustainable and consistent that it outweighed the damage provided by DPS, and the DPS role basically fell out of the game (in higher competitive anyways) and people just ran 3 tank, 3 healers. The DPS passive makes the DPS role relevant (beyond just the hard enforced 2-2-2) and makes it so the healers can't hard pocket a hero so much.
OW1 player here since 2016. I became a main tank player since the role wast the least played (even before role lock) so I picked what my team needed to have a balance comp. I do agree that 6v6 felt way better for the tank player for 1 unique reason : the responsability is shared with your off tank. In 5v5, tank role feel alone and you get blamed if you do the wrong move. In my opinion what we lack right now are more team oriented abilities. Maybe they should have move zarya to dps category ? She could fit with some changes obviously. Same goes for roadhog. Or Dva in some way. On the contrary, I feel that 5v5 feels more of a shooter for any other roles. Support being the maestros of the game, giving the rythm. DPS have way more carry potential with easier flanking routes. I agree with tou that 6v6 feels more of a moba where you often need big team fight and ultimates to win, where in OW2 you can win a teamfight if your tracer takes 1 or 2 kills in the enemy backline. At the same time it is a risk that if she dies, it lets your team with a disadvantage. Both games mode have pros and cons, it's not an easy choice. Both could exist at the same time. But also, the main reason they switch to 5v5 was not any of these considerations, it was to reduce queue time. (and help with the balance)
as an ow1 player, ow2 feels alot better as a 6v6 game with all the changes they made. It's actually crazy to me they reduce it to 5v5 and alot people though it was a "good" thing despite when your tank literally falls over your backline just ends up dying cause there's no off tank. I kinda hope they remove role queue though, I dont mind swapping with people if their not performing well with their current role and it's a shame it's not an option like it use to be.
As a masters off tank from ow1 for support healing alot, thats mainly because people have either forgotten or in your case never played 6v6. The offtanks job is typically to take less recourses so your supports can either give more to the main tank or give pressure through their utility (i.e ana nade, Dmg boost, or bap dmg). D.va and sig were good at taking angles with a dps and living long, where zarya was good at playing corners and pushing with(Rein), after (ball, Hog) or support with bubbles and peel backline(winston). Yes you will have to heal alot more (obviously theres another person) but its just a learning curve again
i will uninstall rivals and install overwatch if they revert s9 hp/hitbox and projectile changes in 6v6 and give a competitive 6v6. but i don't think they will, they want to water down the game so people with brain damage could play and feel like they are doing something.
I have the primary fire swapped as moira but thats bc on console the default feels weird. Your right trigger does your primary fire but your primary as moira is heals so your right trigger pulls up your left arm on your screen. To me it was easier for right arm dmg, right trigger, left arm heal, left trigger
It feels healing heavy because they didn't revert the health changes of S9 and the damage role still had the passive. So it is forcing the supports to heal more. Also people are not used to duo tank and the tanks are trying to run it down solo.
The S9 changes are fine, they were meant to address OW's aiming being different from other shooters, since every hero in the game has instant movement acceleration, strafing is much more of a hindrance to hitting shots, so hitboxes were increased, and to compensate for these larger hitboxes and more damage taken, everyone also got more health.
@@tau-5794 Larger projectile sizes are fine, but the health increases messed with the time to kill by fucking up the breakpoints for many characters. Just because you are more likely to hit your shots doesn't mean you kill your target faster. It just eliminates a fraction of errors. Ana for example now needs 4 shots or 3 shots + nade. Before you needed 3 shots or 2 shots + nade. In most scenarios your projectile size didn't matter, but you need more hits to kill someone. Blizzard adjusted some heroes, but most of them got no compensation. It was simply a failed change and all they need to do is accept that and revert it instead of trying to fix a failed patch.
@Void619 Using Ana as an example, sure it's true that her TTK was slightly lowered against most squishy heroes, however it's still only 3 shots for most of the heroes that you'd have to worry about jumping you like Tracer, Echo, or Sombra since they're all 225 or less, and she can still 4-shot former 250 HP heroes like Mei and Reaper even though they went up to 300 health, since her rifle also got buffed up to 75.
If they buffed a few of the tanks and kept the reworks for ball and hog which adds fun complexity to oversimplified heroes then I think the 6v6 tank cue times would be better. 5v5 is fun but the tanks feel just a bit too weak and the ones that were reverted to their ow1 versions felt too simple but if they got a nudge in the right direction I think it'd be awesome (I'm a tank main)
I fell in love with 6v6 Overwatch in 2016 and they snatched it from us in 2022 and gave us something so inferior. So upsetting. I haven’t touched 5v5 since 6v6 went live. I can’t even enjoy my main role, Tank, I’m 5v5. Really pisses me off.
Some rambling ahead. I take minor issues with the current version of 6v6 but it does feel a lot better than 5v5 imo. I play a ton of support (Ana, Lucio, Juno, and Kiriko) with some tank (JQ, Ramattra, and Zarya) at around Diamond and low Masters, and I originally was looking favorably to the move to 5v5 with more carry potential, less CC, less barriers, and no more space for bs like double barrier, GOATS, triple tank, etc. As time went on though, I felt the loss of a tank weighed a lot more than I thought on how it affected the rest of the game and we simply got new fundamental issues. The old balance team is more to blame than it being a format issue at the end of the day, and while the current ones still make a lot of questionable or poor decisions, I can assure you they are a lot better than the OW1 era devs in that department. Personally as far as supports go, I'm happy we need to balance healing/dps uptime more carefully than being a dps that manages to heal. Moira (rarely) and Kiriko (occasionally) are still in my ranks attempting to flank still, and if they succeed they've earned it more often than not, because having a support make that trade of healing output for damage/picks in a format where healing is more spread out is a commendable trade (I still think Kiriko gets away with it too easily but that's a completely different discussion)
VERY good point! DPS supports can still do their thing but it has a HUGE risk to reward more so than 5v5. For that simple fact I have seen less and now have to do more healing (i love a good dps ana) lol
May 2016 player here. In OW1 I used to happily queue full flex at least some of the time. I'd deselect a role for a few games if I played it two or three times in a row, and that was inevitably tank. But usually I was happy to hop on Zarya and start beaming people. Around 6 months into Overwatch 2 and I had stopped queueing tank entirely, it just felt terrible. And in this 6v6 test mode, I feel like I can play tank again. I don't know if I can stay with Overwatch when 5v5 is the only thing available. I'm glad to see newer players like yourself seeing how much better 6v6 can be, welcome to the fold, friend.
I really think not reverting the season 9 changes for 6v6 was a massive mistake. DPS and support suffers a lot due to the inflated health pools and role passives. A lot of fan-favourite characters are in a pretty weak state rn, Tracer for example, is effectively dealing 27% less damage than she did in OW1 6v6. Genji is even worse. Bastion, hog, sojourn and hazard are super meta, none of which are particularly fun to go against. Not an issue with 6v6, just a balance oversight, just a shame to see.
Min 1, Max 3 is coming. Unlike 2-2-2 which players are forced to play in a role. In that mode no one is forced they can switch to whatever role they want.
Also small amount of people shouting out Support feels horrible in 6v6 but, mate unless you're playing Ana, Bap and Zen and just sitting there and be a backline healbot then you are definitely feeling bored. Majority of people I have conversations with in this opinion group play like this, it's insane!
Great video, I've been in high rank games and just stopped playing comp few seasons ago. 6v6 is just the better format. A game is alot more winnable even if you get 1 bad tank or dps in game, which in 5v5 is straight up unplayable and auto lose . Alot of points made by 5v5 ers in debates 1 year ago have all been proven wrong and they are just in denial and coping. 7HSKW custom code happened and now 6v6 tests are here already more fun even with bare minimum changes
My problem with the game is nothing dying when u removed a player u force the 5 peoples to over compensate so each support is Zeus and worth an extra .5 persons. 5v5 leads to dps being useless when its focus was to make dps be stars which it failed. Sorry for my mini rant
@hiimz I hope they bring back 6v6 competitive. Honestly, that was so good to play. Amazing feeling when you have huge combos. Strats etc. And even when you lost matches, the game still felt good. Personally, I find in 5v5 that there is no in between either your team stomps or gets stomped. In 6v6, there were good battles, back and forth pushing, taking ground.
Ow 2 is just Team Deathmatch, with an objective.... But thats ow 2 in a nutshell.... Frankly, if Ow 2 really goes back to 6v6.... Then Ow 2 goes down in history as nothing more then a Shop Update....
My only gripe with the 6v6 mode is that it takes away individual impact from the matches. Beforehand, it was already hard enough to have any impact on a match if your teammates had the capabilities of bots, but now it's become even more nightmarish. That extra tank added to each team theoretically balances out the skill so it isn't all one a single tank, but in reality it just means that both tanks need to be better than average for their team to win. If one of the tanks decides to make a mistake, they will instantly be punished for it due to just how much damage all characters do. I've seen tanks such as mauga or fortified orisa being nano boosted and under juno's beam just blow up instantly once the enemies all concentrated fire. Once one tank is down, the fight quickly goes from potentially a 50:50 fight to 90:10. They need to seriously bring down the damage of everything because tanks, whose entire role is to soak up damage, cannot tank anymore unless they have a shield. Additionally, this does not feel like an actual 6v6 test; this is regular 5v5 with weaker tanks and a zarya added for each team (seriously, she is the only second tank that is viable).
I don't believe you're right. I believe you have MORE individual impact in 6v6 vs 5v5. Lemme give you an example Lets say you're a Genji, or a Sombra, diving a Kiriko or something. in 5v5 you kill that Kiriko. First pick of the fight But you need to go get a Health pack cause Kiriko is basically a DPS that can heal. So you run off, trusting that your team has got this. Keep in mind, the super tanks are on the field for the 5 secs that you're off to go get a health pack. Your Hog misses his hook, their hog lands his hook. The Hog gets a pick. Doesn't matter what it is, DPS or Support Now we're back to 4v4. They're down a support, you're down something too. The other support, that hasn't been picked off, Ana, Moira whatever. They're able to keep that Tank topped off because he's the ONLY tank. He's the ONLY responsibility they have. BUT in 6vs 6. That early pick you got on Kiriko. NOT a kill on a tank but a support. Means that NOW the fight is *almost* unsustainable for the enemy team. Cause one support CAN'T keep two tanks alive in the brawl. That means that unless the team is playing smart and with callouts and saying "Hey back up we're down a support" your team is gonna roll that fight. Based off of YOUR pick. Because ONE support can't keep the fight topped off for 15 seconds until Kiriko gets back with Suzu on their own. 5V5 gives an ILLUSION of more agency because you have more space to move, but the sheer sustain of tanks and the babying of the suport role that lets them do everything the other roles can do has reduced INDIVIDUAL play (especially in DPS) by *a lot* just off of the fact that the math just does not allow for individual playmaking to work. A single pick in 6v6 can swing a fight as can good strategy. in 5v5 until that tank is dead the fight isn't over. The individual playmaking is all on the tanks and supports.
@@ld1449 Agreed. People always talk about how 5v5 has more agency since there is less players but I find the opposite. If you have one really bad teammate on 5v5 and the other team doesn't it's pretty much over. In 6v6, there is more potential to carry since that one bad player doesn't have as much on their shoulders anyway. Paradoxically, I find myself being able to do more in 6v6
I doubt tho it catch on since ow is in a pikel with rivals. Saying that kinda. Don't do much in sum take as people still only really qué for dps outta all roles picked IV only had 2 games DPS rest tank n healers
Genuine question- Who cares? Like literally I'm sick of this argument on que times. People can have a bit of patience or just alt tab and do soemthing else while it procs. One role being absolutely miserable should not be the "acceptable sacrifice" at the altar of que times
yeah tru in 5v5 my dps q times are around 4-5 min but 6v6 is around 10-12 min. It could be because people left and went back to 5v5 after playing 6v6 for a few weeks. It could be only the tanks are qing up for 6v6. This is the issue of them just ADDING 6v6 and a ranked is it will split the player base even more and up the q ties for EVERYONE playing the game. If they DID add 6v6, I would ASSUME it would HAVE to be open queue. There is also a lot of talk rn about open q in general rn so we will see what happens.
Well that was certainly a rather clickbait thumbnail lol. Sure 6v6 can feel better for Tank (when you not dealing with some of the most aids over tuned tank combos possible) but for Support it really is nowhere near as fun as it is in 5v5 you just have so much more playmaking agency and don't feel you have to sit healing constantly.
@@hiimz the only thing I enjoyed more about support in 6v6 was being able to properly boop tanks again but I way prefer how much more playmaking agency you have in 5v5 as support overall just feels more engaging. I guess that's why the queue times for tank on 6v6 are so short and are so much longer for dps/support lol which is funny because in ow 1 queue times for tank were horrible (all though I only started playing ow at the back end of ow1 shield meta so may of been different before that but I don't think it was).
@@hiimz as a Lucio main it was definitely something I enjoy a lot lol. Ive seen a couple Rein/Rams and Winton/Rams but the thing ive been hating the most is Zarya/Rein it can really feel like they are just un-killable sometimes (also Doom can be super annoying but he generally is anyway).
oh boy this is going to be long:
First, I'm t500 in sup and sometimes peaking into tank(tank on other acc cause main is stuck at m5 but i have gm acc idk), i ended in low diamond at the end of overwatch 1 (playing a year before ow2 but always a fan of overwatch since 2016 but had not pc), upgraded from laptop to pc season 3. I coach the game for fun and I am really deep in the theoretical knowledge of this game. and mid master on dps, not saying im bad at dps but i cant diff people on game knowledge anymore.
Secondly, thank you for posting content like this, I know 6v6 arguments get really annoying and repetitive, casuals hate the yap. however, It is annoying because every argument is met with STFU, lies, misconstrued information, or met with with block ears.
corrections:
tank trades aways happen if there is a tank on both team still on the field. 5v5 as soon as a tank dies that's the end of the tank trades. 6v6, tank trades start, but when you lose a tank, you can still have that tank trades to keep alive the fight and win resources for your team and help enable them, depending how well you do it. The misconception that tank trades is a thing you start when a tank dies is wrong and might be because of 5v5. Let me explain: 5v5 tank trades don't matter at all because the game is less of a positional based resource game, the tank interaction between both tanks are worth a lot less, we use to have getting that extra swing against a rein 6v6 mattered more cause you build ult quicker and the tank is not getting insta healed and the hp are smaller so dmg matters against a tank as a tank more, you can win your team resources and feel good. now you swing and nothing happens, I get diffed by plat players as a t500 tank on rein because everything i am doing doesn't matter because there is no depth into the game (and points before).
Half way writing i realized that i don't want to type much and so I'm just going to state from now on with little explanations, just tell me if you want an explanation
Tank:
you are mainly right nothing much to correct but its a lot of explanations if you want to go in-depth
stuff that they need to do ----) make doom dps again because he is broken (will go into if you want me to). doom doesn't function as a 6v6 tank, mauga giving shout to himself, and same as JQ. and please not have tank ult charge reduction please, there is no point to play well on tank and diff when you cant be the first one to get ult in the lobby even when you are doing really well.
dps:
It feel mediocre, and its not because of the format, It is caused by season 9 and passives, so hitbox, dmg tweaks, denial/reactive abilities or buffing proactive abilities like moria orb or ana nades that were proactive, now it becomes defensive. Hp is a big offender (aka ttk(time to kill)),
how to fix it -----) remove all passive, but global healing healing passive (increase the timer until it procs because not all things scale the same make it only QOL) and keeping stuff like boop resistance for rein and tank global healing passive has to be the same as everyone and not scaling just because they have larger hp, hp all revert to 200 and rescale the dmg numbers and everything to how it was cause they were basically doing that with each patch anyway but slowly (blizzard moment), this is a big one and will be a concern for people latter down the line which is mobility creep, revert hitbox, and more. all this serves to take away from people and less the play
revering the reactive abilities and stuff like why does brig have amour (they did it because its lore no joke, not even balance, brig has amour cause it makes sense in lore)
sups:
i think we know how baby fed this role is, I've already half explained it how to fix in the dps stuff.
also stuff like que times on tank is a bunch of horse P**P. we know this resolves around balance, like season 7 where no one want to play dps because of healing numbers (which introduced passives to the game, and the auto playstyle of the game and all because of 5v5, but not going to go down all the way with that route). we know, a lack of characters mean that no one want to play it, happened with support in ow 1 where the song " should of picked mercy" because there were no sup players. ques shot up because of reactive, denial abilities that F the cycles of characters like winston, because he only has 1 cycle if he presses bubble.(aka not getting a kill because of bull) not fun for casuals, I can go on and on and on why the claim people don't want to play tank because its tank is wrong.
But you know, apparently high rank players or professional coaches don't know what's it is like for causals, surely not, when coaches spend the most of their time with low to mid rank players, this game was never balance for us, it was always for gold players.
I don't know, its like this, I am a math mathematician and having random people trying to explain to me math that is completely wrong and say I don't know what I'm talking about is really frustrating. Its like we are talking to a brick wall because we know best for all ranks of play. Its a fallacy.
and people like to pit us against each other for some reason (your overwatch aka. freedo) cough. now he taking the lead in the conversation because people are moving on.
rant done, but i hope this game heals.
I try to come at these conversations with equal ground because I know people have different experiences so I hope my videos kinda reflect that. You totally opened my mind to the tank trade! 5v5 vs 6v6 feels so different in that aspect. I do like the feeling of tanking for the team and drawing out certain recourses, like if I charge and cancel as a Rein if I can get a few cooldowns from that or maybe even an ult and live, that DOES feel good in 5v5, it's just in 6v6 I felt like I could do so much more than that. Maybe it's cuz i don't like being the center of attention irl lol.
I NEVER liked the hitbox changes with season 9. I was in discord saying how much I hated it when it came out and now people are just realizing the arguments I had about it even as a low rank player. Don't make the game easier for me, getting good is what feels good, don't take that away from me ya know? Not to mention how many reverts they've done since then...
Yeah I like to say I main supps and I just had a Bap game I carried and literally said in chat "its not me, baps just broken." They are op when they support and op when they dps (like in ow2) we NEED to find a healthy balance.
LOL I think a BUNCH of higher elo players know because most of them started low as well (from what I see) As someone who is heavily invested in game design I can totally see the frustration of players after all these years.
I fell in love with a dying game (another video coming soon) and I thank you for providing this insightful comment. Ima pin it for a while if you don't mind. I truly hope this can bring about positive conversation so we can make this game what everyone knows it can be.
@@hiimz to start off we all have our biases, and i by no means are perfect, sometimes i come off as passive aggressive when its not warranted, mainly due to frustration by that is no means an excuse (emotions are within my arguments too/wording).
START(CD BAITS)(CYCLES)(5v5 vs 6v6 tanking):
baiting CD is a core fundamental of tanking in overwatch no matter the format. The difference is that different tanks have different pressure cycles. rein needs to chill when his shield gets low, winston no bubble, zarya no bubbles and so on. Its all about cycling. The issue is tanks get left behind because how they are designed. they are design to have down time, and times of weakness within their CD. so to compensate this they changed it up by Giga buffing tanks and making them so that they can have higher uptime and trying to make all tanks function similar to each other(they failed badly counter watch 101 it got worse). tanks in 5v5 that do not have cycles or need cycles, like when they buff orisa fortify, or buffing rein shield, or mauga cardiac duration, so that they can stand infront 24/7 often are always meta. So when you bait CD as a tank, the point is to make it so you control the positional aspect of the game, it makes it so that your team does more dmg and receives less dmg. However, It feels better in 6v6 because since they are weaker and have a reliance on their CD usage and how well they use it, by baiting a zarya bubble for example, makes it so they cant push and you can do dmg that matters. It is not bailed out by Raw HP numbers or low CD or double bubbles. they have to respect that space you forced because they miss used their CD and they will get punish if they stay on that position, or preventing them from pushing.
another upside to this is that the design space of overwatch is 6v6 is so much better because because you can have tanks that have weaknesses because of the other tank covering your downtime(and since they are lower hp any role can capitalize, cause hitting your cd or shots skillfully forces the tank covering for the other tank mistake to respect you. cause get a kill or force space which you can snowball it)(it also gives the other team the opportunity to fight back because there is still that tank trade)
SEASON 9 (HITBOX, PASSIVES )
I think no one liked the HitBox changes, but it was a necessary evil for what they where going for(it was wrong), the point in season 9 was to stop low rank players from blowing up. casual players love to stand main and not use cover or minimally use it. However, the removal of the secondary tank made space easily accessible, people where getting into the backline and you would see people getting deleted off the map. say your playing tank, without that second tank there is nothing you can do to stop them from accessing your backline and making them work for it as you as a player don't have that freedom to roam. so the game turned from a positional based resource game with FPS aspects, to a resource game based FPS (so more emphasis on the reliance of less game sense and more you need to kill or you are trolling). This can be called a preference, however coming back to the issue of casuals can't do anything but stand main because its fun for them, -
HISTORY:
- speed run: so the devs buff sups to be more self-sufficient, but dps didn't like how they couldn't kill anything, so they introduced dps passive and HP buffes, when buffing hp you need the players to hit more shot or no one is dying because of ttk, they change hitboxes with it, however this disproportionally made tanks so hard to play because you peak you die right away, so they introduce hs passive to give tanls passive fortify, but they were a role where you get deleted or you dont die depending of counterswaping, no one want to play that style of tank, so they giga buff tanks, then tanks became useless because you cant interact with the other tank and diff them, and you still get held hostage by CDs. now here we are is a broken game, but i think the game is fairly balanced for the average rank players, however you get punish for climbing.
That's why 6v6 is better as a core base and the hard ranked players because you can sit main in average ranks and not get deleted off the map, and when someone feeds its not over (that's why season 9 again). necessary evil. but they should of taken the L and reverted season 9 because you cant fix tank, you can alleviate it by balance and reworks or certain hero design from the sups and tank category but some issues will still be prevalent because of the solo tanking experience
Your skill will not be taken away from you ("its not me, baps just broken."):
You say that you main bap, and you are not bad by playing a role that is babied, its that the game players for you and prevents skillfulness of hero's, like, cover useage, rotations, and CD useage, reading the fight to make decision on who to heal. If one day they nerf all sups to the ground, you and i probably will stay the same ranks, because it affects everyone, some might drop a rank, and some might climb in a rank, not everyone is going to perform in every state of the game. It's just the state of this game at the moment, by existing as a support you deny everyone else's experience of the game, sup will be harder in the move to 6v6, but people adapt. Its like how mercy mains use to be skillful in movement and the same with moria to perform(thats why you cant buff moria because there is no skill ceiling on that hero anymore), now they dumb it down and its not a needed skill that much and requires zero effort, you have most mercy mains kinda braindead or play other heros or left the game. again its the fault of the game. You have skills and knowledge of the game that the people below you don't and that is not going to take it away from you.
I think that type of mindset people have "its not me, baps just broken." trickles down from discussion people have about this game and its state. the argument is that when a casual player ana player looks at high rank ana play there is no difference. "I am doing the same thing" kinda talk. there is a difference but fundamentally we are doing the same thing, and almost getting the same value.
another note all these points is that one tricks are a indication of a healthy overwatch.
HIGH ELO TAKE:
being higher rank is a indication of understanding this game but it is not a fact. most people in high masters don't understand the game fully, and even in the 0.1% of the game you have some people who are not interested or don't understand balance. its an indication and the higher you climb the more intellects you will find, its just a factor that helps. I don't like how freedo uses that to shut down every argument (he doesn't discuss he just reacts to videos but says you are high rank so you are bias end of conversation).
ENDING:
These conversations need to happen because, I also love this game, the only reason why I am typing or people arguing for 6v6 or 5v5 in depth is passion for the game. From a game not seen and update for 4 years to work on pve and experiencing how fun the game was to me at the end of OW1 life, I would hop on and get mad sometimes(alot) but i always come back ready and excited to play more. (the claim burnt out shouldn't be an argument). To now barely playing an hour or nowadays only playing because i loved this game and feeling better than other people through skill. I really hope I dont move on from this masterpiece to play a new game, because nothing is like what overwatch brought me.
@@hiimz another thing. For someone who is only an overwatch 2 player, you really follow your research and are getting deep into overwatch, from the podcast, emoung and flats duo, very reasonable points, understanding of proactivity, niche videos on both sides, I am supprised you know who wizzardhyeoung is.
get rid of role poassives and giv e EVERY single hero hero specific passives.
@@cpenner7086don't need, 6v6 is just better and passives are free value and balance nightmare as if blizz isn't already struggling with that
Are you having fun with the 6v6 playtest? LMK
i sure am!
they need it back for sure
i had more fun in a week of 6v6 than in a year of 5v5
6v6 is just soo good!
5v5 never really felt fun for me, coming from ow1 and I really think if they remove 6v6 for good, I will just quit the game and move one, which is a massive shame, as I genuinely love the game.
As for the tank role I used to main tank and support in ow1 but when 5v5 came around I stopped playing tank because it just felt miserable. It feels so refreshing to play tank again in 6v6!
I've been fighting the 6v6 battle on the common platforms since the announcement of 5v5. I do, in fact feel validated seeing several 5v5ers praising the test and format!
The icing on the cake would the format being added to the game permanently!
Cheers from another Hanzo player though! This firerate is everything I could wish for! He is still one of the weaker heroes even in 6v6, but he actually *feels* so good to play!
I've also returned to tank with 6v6. I despise playing the role in 5v5, and only play it to maintain GM rank.
And I have the same experience as you do - tanking is actually fun and I find myself *wanting* to actually play it!
Most of my time in 6v6 has been playing tank, and haven'thad this much fun since OW1. I want this format back.
I hope they bring 6v6 to competitive tho I wonder how bad the tank queues will be since tank was the least played role in OW1. I don't mind flanking Kirikos tbh because she requires some skill unlike moira. I also think they should definitely keep the healing passive at least because I thought it was a great addition to the game.
I do like the healing passive tbh. Yeah tank queues are the one thing holding it back. Maybe if we go back to 6v6, it would have to be open queue?
@@hiimz Yea idk I really like role queue so I wouldn't want open queue to be the only option. I think more ppl would tank if 6v6 was a thing and it would probably bring more players into the game. I think a big issue with 6v6 is also tank synergy so for example some tank duos are really strong whereas if you play hog and something like zarya its probably pretty bad so idk what the solution is to that.
@@hiimzow1 had limited tanks and bad balance and no updates. It's not the same now. I get fast queues even now towards the 6v6 test ending week
@@random1237brainwashed take, you guys echoing what 5v5sexuals were saying and most of it is straight up wrong. Tank synergies are widely loved and known to make ow unique across all playerbase, they only switched to 1 tank with queue time as an excuse, which is fixable
Its less player on each player and enables more Teamplay which in 5vs5 you dont have at all cause it feels like Deathmatch
yeah it DOES feel like a deathmatch CoD game mode sometimes frfr
Me and one of my OW1 support duos are now mostly playing tank, and its fun. Having a second tank, makes things so much better. Its also very fun to be an off tank for newer tank players, helping them take risks, and giving support and follow up.
SAME! I been playing tank with my support duo too haha
Another banger video by hiimz, keep it goin!
appreciate you bro
@ i appreciate you too! Proud of what you do always
I'm just glad to see some positive videos around OverWatch
we trying out here
Certainly fixed my beef with Tanks. I don't mind the passives staying on. Goats meta was a thing back in the day because the high health pools of tanks and high healing provided by supports was just so sustainable and consistent that it outweighed the damage provided by DPS, and the DPS role basically fell out of the game (in higher competitive anyways) and people just ran 3 tank, 3 healers. The DPS passive makes the DPS role relevant (beyond just the hard enforced 2-2-2) and makes it so the healers can't hard pocket a hero so much.
mmmm very good point!
OW1 player here since 2016.
I became a main tank player since the role wast the least played (even before role lock) so I picked what my team needed to have a balance comp. I do agree that 6v6 felt way better for the tank player for 1 unique reason : the responsability is shared with your off tank.
In 5v5, tank role feel alone and you get blamed if you do the wrong move.
In my opinion what we lack right now are more team oriented abilities. Maybe they should have move zarya to dps category ? She could fit with some changes obviously. Same goes for roadhog. Or Dva in some way.
On the contrary, I feel that 5v5 feels more of a shooter for any other roles. Support being the maestros of the game, giving the rythm. DPS have way more carry potential with easier flanking routes. I agree with tou that 6v6 feels more of a moba where you often need big team fight and ultimates to win, where in OW2 you can win a teamfight if your tracer takes 1 or 2 kills in the enemy backline. At the same time it is a risk that if she dies, it lets your team with a disadvantage.
Both games mode have pros and cons, it's not an easy choice. Both could exist at the same time.
But also, the main reason they switch to 5v5 was not any of these considerations, it was to reduce queue time. (and help with the balance)
as an ow1 player, ow2 feels alot better as a 6v6 game with all the changes they made. It's actually crazy to me they reduce it to 5v5 and alot people though it was a "good" thing despite when your tank literally falls over your backline just ends up dying cause there's no off tank.
I kinda hope they remove role queue though, I dont mind swapping with people if their not performing well with their current role and it's a shame it's not an option like it use to be.
I think if they DO add 6v6, it would have to be open q
As a masters off tank from ow1 for support healing alot, thats mainly because people have either forgotten or in your case never played 6v6. The offtanks job is typically to take less recourses so your supports can either give more to the main tank or give pressure through their utility (i.e ana nade, Dmg boost, or bap dmg). D.va and sig were good at taking angles with a dps and living long, where zarya was good at playing corners and pushing with(Rein), after (ball, Hog) or support with bubbles and peel backline(winston). Yes you will have to heal alot more (obviously theres another person) but its just a learning curve again
i will uninstall rivals and install overwatch if they revert s9 hp/hitbox and projectile changes in 6v6 and give a competitive 6v6.
but i don't think they will, they want to water down the game so people with brain damage could play and feel like they are doing something.
I have the primary fire swapped as moira but thats bc on console the default feels weird. Your right trigger does your primary fire but your primary as moira is heals so your right trigger pulls up your left arm on your screen. To me it was easier for right arm dmg, right trigger, left arm heal, left trigger
OOOO yeah that would make a bunch of sense tbh sorry for the cheap shot I also play dps moira LMAO
It feels healing heavy because they didn't revert the health changes of S9 and the damage role still had the passive. So it is forcing the supports to heal more. Also people are not used to duo tank and the tanks are trying to run it down solo.
Yeah the larger health pools and buffed hitboxes makes this different from 6v6 in OW1 from what I understand.
The S9 changes are fine, they were meant to address OW's aiming being different from other shooters, since every hero in the game has instant movement acceleration, strafing is much more of a hindrance to hitting shots, so hitboxes were increased, and to compensate for these larger hitboxes and more damage taken, everyone also got more health.
then dont heal and just play like from Val
@@tau-5794 Larger projectile sizes are fine, but the health increases messed with the time to kill by fucking up the breakpoints for many characters.
Just because you are more likely to hit your shots doesn't mean you kill your target faster. It just eliminates a fraction of errors.
Ana for example now needs 4 shots or 3 shots + nade. Before you needed 3 shots or 2 shots + nade. In most scenarios your projectile size didn't matter, but you need more hits to kill someone.
Blizzard adjusted some heroes, but most of them got no compensation. It was simply a failed change and all they need to do is accept that and revert it instead of trying to fix a failed patch.
@Void619 Using Ana as an example, sure it's true that her TTK was slightly lowered against most squishy heroes, however it's still only 3 shots for most of the heroes that you'd have to worry about jumping you like Tracer, Echo, or Sombra since they're all 225 or less, and she can still 4-shot former 250 HP heroes like Mei and Reaper even though they went up to 300 health, since her rifle also got buffed up to 75.
If they buffed a few of the tanks and kept the reworks for ball and hog which adds fun complexity to oversimplified heroes then I think the 6v6 tank cue times would be better. 5v5 is fun but the tanks feel just a bit too weak and the ones that were reverted to their ow1 versions felt too simple but if they got a nudge in the right direction I think it'd be awesome (I'm a tank main)
understandable for sure. Even something like a hog trap can change so much about how 6v6 would play
I fell in love with 6v6 Overwatch in 2016 and they snatched it from us in 2022 and gave us something so inferior. So upsetting. I haven’t touched 5v5 since 6v6 went live. I can’t even enjoy my main role, Tank, I’m 5v5. Really pisses me off.
I think i speak for every off tank player in ow1 that we are feeling GOOD
Some rambling ahead.
I take minor issues with the current version of 6v6 but it does feel a lot better than 5v5 imo. I play a ton of support (Ana, Lucio, Juno, and Kiriko) with some tank (JQ, Ramattra, and Zarya) at around Diamond and low Masters, and I originally was looking favorably to the move to 5v5 with more carry potential, less CC, less barriers, and no more space for bs like double barrier, GOATS, triple tank, etc. As time went on though, I felt the loss of a tank weighed a lot more than I thought on how it affected the rest of the game and we simply got new fundamental issues. The old balance team is more to blame than it being a format issue at the end of the day, and while the current ones still make a lot of questionable or poor decisions, I can assure you they are a lot better than the OW1 era devs in that department.
Personally as far as supports go, I'm happy we need to balance healing/dps uptime more carefully than being a dps that manages to heal. Moira (rarely) and Kiriko (occasionally) are still in my ranks attempting to flank still, and if they succeed they've earned it more often than not, because having a support make that trade of healing output for damage/picks in a format where healing is more spread out is a commendable trade (I still think Kiriko gets away with it too easily but that's a completely different discussion)
VERY good point! DPS supports can still do their thing but it has a HUGE risk to reward more so than 5v5. For that simple fact I have seen less and now have to do more healing (i love a good dps ana) lol
May 2016 player here. In OW1 I used to happily queue full flex at least some of the time. I'd deselect a role for a few games if I played it two or three times in a row, and that was inevitably tank. But usually I was happy to hop on Zarya and start beaming people. Around 6 months into Overwatch 2 and I had stopped queueing tank entirely, it just felt terrible. And in this 6v6 test mode, I feel like I can play tank again. I don't know if I can stay with Overwatch when 5v5 is the only thing available. I'm glad to see newer players like yourself seeing how much better 6v6 can be, welcome to the fold, friend.
I really think not reverting the season 9 changes for 6v6 was a massive mistake. DPS and support suffers a lot due to the inflated health pools and role passives. A lot of fan-favourite characters are in a pretty weak state rn, Tracer for example, is effectively dealing 27% less damage than she did in OW1 6v6. Genji is even worse.
Bastion, hog, sojourn and hazard are super meta, none of which are particularly fun to go against.
Not an issue with 6v6, just a balance oversight, just a shame to see.
I dont think I will continue to play Ow in long term if there is no 6v6 in comptitive.
yeah...
I mean a dps support isnt the issue as you should reward playmaking but kiriko having such a tiny hitbox and having to AND SUZU is a bit crazy.
well edited 👍
great vid!
Love tank in 6v6 I can queue for all roles again. Same rank as the video.
yeeeesssss bro i just flex qing its been super fun
Min 1, Max 3 is coming. Unlike 2-2-2 which players are forced to play in a role. In that mode no one is forced they can switch to whatever role they want.
Also small amount of people shouting out Support feels horrible in 6v6 but, mate unless you're playing Ana, Bap and Zen and just sitting there and be a backline healbot then you are definitely feeling bored. Majority of people I have conversations with in this opinion group play like this, it's insane!
i like it as dps because there are more things to shoot
i agree with you 100%
I absolutelly agrew with every point in this video!
Thanks!
Great video, I've been in high rank games and just stopped playing comp few seasons ago. 6v6 is just the better format. A game is alot more winnable even if you get 1 bad tank or dps in game, which in 5v5 is straight up unplayable and auto lose . Alot of points made by 5v5 ers in debates 1 year ago have all been proven wrong and they are just in denial and coping. 7HSKW custom code happened and now 6v6 tests are here already more fun even with bare minimum changes
My problem with the game is nothing dying when u removed a player u force the 5 peoples to over compensate so each support is Zeus and worth an extra .5 persons. 5v5 leads to dps being useless when its focus was to make dps be stars which it failed. Sorry for my mini rant
as a OW 1 player, now you feel our pain. of how bad ow2 is
I UNDERSTAND IT NOW lol
@hiimz I hope they bring back 6v6 competitive.
Honestly, that was so good to play. Amazing feeling when you have huge combos. Strats etc. And even when you lost matches, the game still felt good.
Personally, I find in 5v5 that there is no in between either your team stomps or gets stomped. In 6v6, there were good battles, back and forth pushing, taking ground.
not touching the game until genji gets buffed
#nerfgenji
Ow 2 is just Team Deathmatch, with an objective.... But thats ow 2 in a nutshell.... Frankly, if Ow 2 really goes back to 6v6.... Then Ow 2 goes down in history as nothing more then a Shop Update....
wtf is this comment lol
@@Spid4r1 laugh about the comment all you want, its a fact. players dont even care about the objective anymore. let alone teamplay...
My only gripe with the 6v6 mode is that it takes away individual impact from the matches. Beforehand, it was already hard enough to have any impact on a match if your teammates had the capabilities of bots, but now it's become even more nightmarish. That extra tank added to each team theoretically balances out the skill so it isn't all one a single tank, but in reality it just means that both tanks need to be better than average for their team to win. If one of the tanks decides to make a mistake, they will instantly be punished for it due to just how much damage all characters do. I've seen tanks such as mauga or fortified orisa being nano boosted and under juno's beam just blow up instantly once the enemies all concentrated fire. Once one tank is down, the fight quickly goes from potentially a 50:50 fight to 90:10. They need to seriously bring down the damage of everything because tanks, whose entire role is to soak up damage, cannot tank anymore unless they have a shield. Additionally, this does not feel like an actual 6v6 test; this is regular 5v5 with weaker tanks and a zarya added for each team (seriously, she is the only second tank that is viable).
I don't believe you're right.
I believe you have MORE individual impact in 6v6 vs 5v5.
Lemme give you an example
Lets say you're a Genji, or a Sombra, diving a Kiriko or something. in 5v5 you kill that Kiriko. First pick of the fight But you need to go get a Health pack cause Kiriko is basically a DPS that can heal. So you run off, trusting that your team has got this.
Keep in mind, the super tanks are on the field for the 5 secs that you're off to go get a health pack.
Your Hog misses his hook, their hog lands his hook.
The Hog gets a pick. Doesn't matter what it is, DPS or Support
Now we're back to 4v4. They're down a support, you're down something too.
The other support, that hasn't been picked off, Ana, Moira whatever. They're able to keep that Tank topped off because he's the ONLY tank. He's the ONLY responsibility they have.
BUT
in 6vs 6. That early pick you got on Kiriko. NOT a kill on a tank but a support. Means that NOW the fight is *almost* unsustainable for the enemy team. Cause one support CAN'T keep two tanks alive in the brawl.
That means that unless the team is playing smart and with callouts and saying "Hey back up we're down a support" your team is gonna roll that fight. Based off of YOUR pick. Because ONE support can't keep the fight topped off for 15 seconds until Kiriko gets back with Suzu on their own.
5V5 gives an ILLUSION of more agency because you have more space to move, but the sheer sustain of tanks and the babying of the suport role that lets them do everything the other roles can do has reduced INDIVIDUAL play (especially in DPS) by *a lot* just off of the fact that the math just does not allow for individual playmaking to work. A single pick in 6v6 can swing a fight as can good strategy. in 5v5 until that tank is dead the fight isn't over. The individual playmaking is all on the tanks and supports.
@@ld1449 Agreed. People always talk about how 5v5 has more agency since there is less players but I find the opposite. If you have one really bad teammate on 5v5 and the other team doesn't it's pretty much over. In 6v6, there is more potential to carry since that one bad player doesn't have as much on their shoulders anyway. Paradoxically, I find myself being able to do more in 6v6
When I'm a support and a tank dives me, falls out of position, and now I get to actually punish him? That feels like good player agency to me tbh.
I doubt tho it catch on since ow is in a pikel with rivals. Saying that kinda. Don't do much in sum take as people still only really qué for dps outta all roles picked IV only had 2 games DPS rest tank n healers
6v6 is cool and all that but the queue time of other role has gotten significantly longer. And that's coming from a tank main
Genuine question-
Who cares?
Like literally I'm sick of this argument on que times. People can have a bit of patience or just alt tab and do soemthing else while it procs. One role being absolutely miserable should not be the "acceptable sacrifice" at the altar of que times
yeah tru in 5v5 my dps q times are around 4-5 min but 6v6 is around 10-12 min. It could be because people left and went back to 5v5 after playing 6v6 for a few weeks. It could be only the tanks are qing up for 6v6. This is the issue of them just ADDING 6v6 and a ranked is it will split the player base even more and up the q ties for EVERYONE playing the game. If they DID add 6v6, I would ASSUME it would HAVE to be open queue. There is also a lot of talk rn about open q in general rn so we will see what happens.
Well that was certainly a rather clickbait thumbnail lol.
Sure 6v6 can feel better for Tank (when you not dealing with some of the most aids over tuned tank combos possible) but for Support it really is nowhere near as fun as it is in 5v5 you just have so much more playmaking agency and don't feel you have to sit healing constantly.
Is it really?? Personally I found support in 6v6 more fun but that is preference.
@@hiimz the only thing I enjoyed more about support in 6v6 was being able to properly boop tanks again but I way prefer how much more playmaking agency you have in 5v5 as support overall just feels more engaging.
I guess that's why the queue times for tank on 6v6 are so short and are so much longer for dps/support lol which is funny because in ow 1 queue times for tank were horrible (all though I only started playing ow at the back end of ow1 shield meta so may of been different before that but I don't think it was).
@@AuT0maTe1 yess so tru I forgot what booping tanks actually feels like! lol
Have you played into any double shield comps in this playtest?
@@hiimz as a Lucio main it was definitely something I enjoy a lot lol.
Ive seen a couple Rein/Rams and Winton/Rams but the thing ive been hating the most is Zarya/Rein it can really feel like they are just un-killable sometimes (also Doom can be super annoying but he generally is anyway).
high gold rank? damn calm down
LLOL