CMMG Banshee at the Range
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- Опубликовано: 24 дек 2024
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Yesterday we looked at the novel Radial Delayed Blowback system invented by CMMG for their 9mm AR carbines; today we are taking it out to the range to try. It does indeed do exactly as advertised - even in a lighter platform like this SBR, the recoil impulse is significantly less than in simple blowback 9mm ARs. Very cool to see innovation still existing in a marketplace that has been so heavily optimized!
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Misses all shots at 200 yards
"Well, I scared him a lot"
Dance steel target man, Dance!
@@weedwacker1716 high volume of fire
It looks like the gun every Ubisoft game has your start out with.
it does
Div 2 made you earn this one
A mini p416
Even Peter Jackson's King Kong?
@@nyxnaux even Assassin's Creed
4:48 proper ‘old west’ ricochet 😂
When I went shooting for the first time, my uncle hit a rock and I was amazed by how that's not just in the movies haha
It’s how ricochets sound.
@@kiloalphasierra From what ive seen its not that common though is it? the sound i mean
I forgot I was listening to gunshots go off and thought it was a peacock. That would be one loud peacock.
@@TheZINGularity shooting in an environment like this with .22 rounds, it gets kinda common
You need the John Hickok over-shoulder zoom on the target so we can see the hits.
Do they have 9mm tracer's?
First Last yeah
I really like seeing the rounds go down range and hit the target
He is an excellent cameraman
Agreed
The sounds of some of those misses towards the spinner reminded me of Sergio Leone's Westerns :-)
Time to dig out and watch the Dollars-trilogy for the rest of the day.
Always a good plan
When I heard that I was thinking that same spaghetti western kinda thought. Fun that its a real sound.
If you don't want to dig then you can find them on Netflix.
@@karbonpanzer Sadly not in my country... But I do have them all on DVD, it's just they have gotten kind of buried in the shelf...
Yeah some of the ricochets were very stereotypical
I like the brass flying into karls face
In the military, that's what the offhand is for. Shoot one handed, other hand to block cases going down your clothes. 🙃
MonkEsquire Norwegian faces attracts brass.
Brass bukkake
I wonder either I’ll get banned for saying that
@@thomasa5619 ... I mean Karl literally uploads his videos to pornhub, so I have a feeling you're fine.
Who is Karl?
Kudos to CMMG for this clever innovation. Very cool.
I wonder how many spent casings Karl had to fish out of his shirt
Or spit out
@@pacificcoastpiper3949 Or 'pass'.
@@lepuuttelu lol wow
One is too many.
Getting props from Ian...the dream of any gun manufacturer
I built one of these using CMMG'S armorers kit and a Aero XL upper. I added a longer buffer tube with a 9mm hydraulic buffer and Tubbs 300blk spring. The thing shoots so soft it's amazing. I'd say it's softer than an MP5 and that is saying alot. I pair it with a obsidian 45 supressor. It's a really sweet combo. Bring on the zombies!
Missing targets: if you can't send them to Jesus, you can at least get them to shout his name.
Well these targets in particular already made it to jesus
And for 40 days and 40 nights, Gun Jesus does combat with his mortal enemy, the spinner.
Kentucky Windage in Arizona ? ......Is there some sort of waiver you have to fill out for that ?
The real reason for the civil war was the Yankees using Kentucky windage without approval.
I think its an NFA item lol
Rhino Virus Kentucky never actually seceded. They were the only “neutral” state.
@@rymic72 Of course, at the time, most Kentuckians were already at war with their neighbors... it just wasn't about slavery or states' rights or anything.
(In truth, the Hatfield/McCoy feud started immediately _after_ the war, and partially as a result of it, but it still sounds good)
its an NFA item. Needs a tax stamp
Looks like a damn fun shooty bit.
I have a CMMG Banshee in 9mm upper on a pistol lower that I built, and I have to say it's one of the best 9mm AR I've ever shot. Clever system.
I built a 9mm upper for my SBR using a CMMG barrel and BCG combo this winter. Because of this COVID crap, I haven't gotten to the range yet to try it out or zero it. Now I've really got the itch to go!!
Great video!
I'd like to see you try the 10mm on the range.
Pleasantly surprised to see such high Mark's given for a "clever" idea put into functional purpose.
Way to go CMMG. 😁👍
I shot a new CMMG 9mm RDB Carbine one a couple days ago and all 3 Magpul Coverted mags didn't lock the bolt to the rear after the last round. When held up hill the bolt will lock to the rear as gravity is assisting on a gun with a empty magazine. It needs a anti-tilt follower for reliability. The rear portion of the follower does not have enough spring pressure after the last round to consistently raise the bolt catch enough because tilts down in the back not raising the bolt catch enough to lock the bolt to the rear.
And the winner on technical K.O is the spinner! :)
Pistol spinners are the devil.
Just ordered my CMMG upper in 5.7x28 and this video has me so hyped for it to show up!
From the sounds of some of those shots you were spending the day with your buddy Rick O' Shea.
Oy vay.
Thanks for demonstrating these firearms for us Ian! Really appreciated!
around 2:10 i love hearing the shockwaves, so cool you can hear one loud echo and one small, wonder why that is
Probably the shape of the canyon.
That's shooting in Arizona, the mountains far but also echos alot because of the Rocky terrain
0:54 R.i.P Camera guy, thank you for your service.
the close angle shot with the casings flying over ians arm with the lefty stance is aesthetic as hell
I bought a 5" version for my wife recently. It is extremely soft shooting and extremely easy to be accurate with offhand. Hers and my favorite PCC (or PCP pistol caliber pistol?). I have two more on order directly from CMMG.
That CMMG Banshee is pretty cool in how it has been engineered. What is just as cool is that Desert Brutality 2020 shirt that Ian is rocking in the vid. Pretty slick.
Got the CMMG bolt and barrel combo for the 5.7 and really like it. I use the 40 round conversion mags with an SBR lower. I also shortened a couple of the 40 round mags because they're silly long and they work just fine.
The real question is how does the banshee stack up against the SP5.
This is the conversion/upper for ARs. The "normal" banshee is a smaller pcc comparable to the mpx, b&t, etc
@@jasonjayalap Isn't the upper the same and you can use either the pistol magazine lower or a normal ar lower?
And the KP-9. That would be a great shootout.
It’s better. The recoil impulse is about the same, but it has the benefit of much better controls and a LRBHO.
@@idontwanttoputmyname403 yes it is.
1. Mud test
2. Compaire it to an mp5 on how felt recoil differs. Which has less.
3. If its possible, id like to see yall compaire the felt recoil from a 16" rifle 9mm banshee and compair it to the pistol 9mm banshee and mp5. While also compairing all bolt weight options between the two banshees.
4. Do compensators help the banshee with felt recoil in a significant way.
Love the vids guys keep it up!!! just throwing some ideas in the air.
That thing is spitting those casings directly over Ian's right shoulder and straight at the poor cameraman
Loving the ricochet sounds off that spinner!
They also offer a .22LR in straight blowback. Right now they have an offer where you get the .22LR conversion kit free with the purchase of a 5.56 upper. I didn't see it offered in .357 SIG which surprises me as it would be the same upper as the .40 with a 9mm barrel chambered for the .357 SIG. This would be a great option to have as I'm sure the round would greatly benefit from a longer barrel giving .357 Magnum performance in a semi-auto package. Contact them if you want one. Maybe they will make it.
4:47 that was a nice ricochet sound
But what we gots to know is, how it compare with the HK MP5?
@@spraynpray well, we literally just saw it working, so....
spraynpray, my banshee with the converted mags runs great. Zero malfunctions.
@@spraynpray My Glock-magazine 16" Resolute works like a charm. Same action.
The recoil impulse of this is basically exactly like the MP5. It also suppresses about the same.
However it also has the benefit of MUCH better controls and ergonomics.
So, it’s way better.
@@spraynpray We're literally watching a video of a CMMG Banshee working...
I do hope you guys have the opportunity to try this system in full auto. whether through a transferable lower you can put the upper on, or a dealer sample.
looking into this, i've seen unanimous agreement that it's better than a simple blowback, but that it's even on par or slightly better than locked/delayed action guns, like the SIG MPX, or the HK SP5, and others. trying in the various other calibers they offer would be interesting, since barely anything else is available in them, but probably more complicated. i believe they make magwell adapters for them though.
I honestly think this system is a big breakthrough for the PCC market, and has a number of merits that could make it an excellent SMG.
I've been wondering since these platforms came out if the radial delayed blowback system could be adapted to rifle calibers like 5.56 and .300 blackout, if so it would be interesting to see how those would compare to a standard gas operated AR
you would have the same problem the famas has. ruclips.net/video/dmYUoG9S-y4/видео.html
It would be very badly adapted to the AR platform thanks to the low mass of the bolt carrier (which is the whole point of an AR). This pistol-caliber version already needs an additional weight block embedded in the carrier to work.
With a rifle bullet, the number of locking lugs would have to be reduced and each lug would need to be made more robust. The rotation angle of the cam would also need to be increased and its path made more steep to increase the leverage ratio and time delay. Maybe the cam would also have to be reinforced. The bolt carrier and bolt would also need to be made heavier and more mass would have to be added to the buffer. Maybe also reinforce the buffer spring.
You'll basically end up with a heavy sort-of AR.
@@andrewsuryali8540 The only problem with your analysis is that the "additional weight block embedded in the carrier" isn't necessary. You can add one for specific situations, such as suppressor use, or maybe really hot rounds, but for normal operation, it's not needed.
I just pulled the BCG on mine, and there is no weight installed in the BCG. It works like a charm that way.
HK 93 just lighter and less reliable.
It basically wouldn't be a good idea. Rifle cartridges operate at much higher pressures than pistol cartridges; the reason for using radial delayed blowback in the Banshee is because they wanted an easy shooting gun, but using Stoner-pattern gas impingement wasn't imparting enough energy to (reliably) unlock the action. The opposite problem would occur with your suggestion; 5.56mm/.223 or .300 blk would impart _too much_ energy into the action.
This could be compensated for by adding heavier weights to the BCG, but that would increase the felt recoil and would otherwise offer no advantages over a Stoner-pattern action. In short, the radial delayed blowback system exist solely to make a pistol-caliber Stoner-pattern carbine shoot more like a DI rifle carbine and less like a blowback pistol carbine.
If you ask me, the real draw here is the magazine inserts, since this allows the attachment of a pistol caliber upper onto a standard lower. This means that, if so desired, one could easily use 9mm Luger (or potentially another caliber) for training purposes and .223 for field purposes, which may be a better option than .22 LR because a radial delayed 9mm shoots more like a DI .223 than a blowback .22 LR does. (9mm Luger may cost a bit more than .22 LR, but you have to find the balance somewhere)
But don't take my word for it; I don't know anything.
It’s always nice to see gun vids from Ian in the morning with breakfast. Today is gonna be a good day. Thank you
I have learned so much from you when it comes to weapons
Ian: HAVE AT THEE FOUL NEMESIS! FROM THE DEPTHS OF HELL I SHALL STRIKE AT THEE!
Spinner: .........
When you are a week ahead of everyone
you can hear a couple good ricochets in this one for those curious
CMMG's 22LR AR Conversion kit is a very good product that works well, also. I first heard of them by that product. It allows most all standard AR's in 223 to shoot 22lr, for $230.
locking action is smooth and unique enjoyed watching Ian take care
Interesting how it seems to be imparting a rotational impulse (kants to 1 o'clock) when fired.
The Banshee in 9mm shooting subsonic and wearing a GSL Technology Fat Man can, rivals the HKMP5SD in side by side shooting in terms of sound signature and recoil impulse, the the AR design being more ergonomic than the MP5...although the HK bolt slap is always a crowd pleaser. We shoot them side by side in our demonstrations (I do demonstrations to LEO's, military and private citizens for GSL).
With a lot of those ejected cases zooming over your right shoulder, this upper looks like a good candidate for a 9mm case deflector / port cover.
There are some very good example of the classic ricochet sound in this video.
I love watching Ian shoot a spinner because it makes me feel confident about my own shooting ability 😂
Yeah, now try your plinking with a .45's drastic drop with an unzeroed sight.
Let me fiddle with your sight zero, then try it...
It would be fun to see this channel do more videos on modern guns.
Muti call is good depending on availability of ammo in your area or if you prefer 1 load over the other.
1 of the reasons i love shotguns.. There is a load for every occasion, versatile, and dose not weigh a Ton.
I absolutely LOVE the idea of this system. I wish that PSA would partner with CMMG so that their ARV lower (uses AK-V mags) would work with this upper. Best of all worlds for a 9mm AR (in my mind)
I wonder what would be necessary to MAKE it work. For example, I know that any lower with an ejector needs to have that removed to work with this upper. But also, thank you. I hadn't heard about that lower yet.
I started putting together a 9mm AR roundabouts late 2017/early 2018 and I have absolutely been kicking myself lately for choosing to *not* be an early adopter of the CMMG delayed blowback system at the time because it sounded maybe too good to be true. Everything I've seen and read about it recently has made it pretty clear that was the wrong way to go - the only real problems I've seen anyone have with the Banshee was with handloads, which, duh. My simple blowback setup runs great (with like a 9.5oz buffer,) but it's really heavy and really thumpy. And so little of my build is reusable on a Banshee that I'd almost be building a whole new gun to make the switch, which is $$$$.
Ditto. My blowback malfunctioned as soon as I added a suppressor. Now U either need to add a lot more weight to this already heavy system, or buy a CMMG barrel & bolt.
Genuine Cowdy hat and genuine Cowdy sound effects, awesome 🤘
You more than scared the 200 meter target, with exception of two shots I definitely heard projectile on steel impact's. very impressive that good sir.. ~_^
Love my 9mm banshee
Super compact
Lightweight
Accurate
I think the optional weight kit you mentioned near the end of the video primarily serve the purpose of tuning for reliability when using a suppressor? I could be wrong, though. It's been a while since I researched CMMG's product line.
For suppressors and for use with different ammo (subsonic, reloads)
@@Duwurf Good Point
For light loads, no weight needed at all for the carbine version.
The 10mm option sounds really interesting 🤔
Say no more... ruclips.net/video/riellRxD7SA/видео.html
@@ironwolfF1 Cheers!
how bout the 6 . 5 O P T I O N
Heard a couple of cool sounding ricochets when you were firing at the spinner.
Amazing video as always. Informative and fun to watch. Thanks man.
I shot my 10mm Banshee for the first time yesterday. Dropped an Echo trigger in it for the giggles. Unbelievable fun was had.
I've seen these at the range and in videos and no doubt that's it's a better design than other straight blowback 9mm PCC. However, I have one of the straight blowback versions with a pistol brace and a 4" barrel and I'm amazed at how well it shoots every time it goes to the range and it cost half what this one costs. HALF!!! As sweet as the Banshee is, it's not twice as good as what I have.
Doesn't look like they do .357 Sig. That would be nice, but there's a slight concern with bottleneck cases in a blowback (though, I don't know if the radial delayed blowback would have the same issue). If you reload, you can only use new brass in them. Otherwise, you can have issues of the case getting torn in half, leaving the front half in the chamber.
Only weirdos like me buy .357 Sig handguns, and only a subset of the weirdos would want a .357 Sig carbine/rifle, so there's not a really huge demand.
Where did you see problems with bottleneck cartridges in blowback guns? Were they rifle rounds? It would be an easy option to offer a .357 SIG option however as it would just require them to make a few barrels. All the other components would be the same as the .40S&W.
@@AverageJoe4063 saw them with the fn Five-seveN. Cases ended up stretched and looking like weatherby double radius cases after firing.
I haven't seen many people in the US buying and shooting .357 SIG.
@@ScottKenny1978 I watched a lot of reviews for the CMMG guns in 5.7 and none of them mentioned the brass being distorted. I don't think that it is a problem with this platform. As for the .357 SIG, it does have a strong following by a smaller group of people. It is the closest you can get to .357 Magnum performance (a long recognized benchmark) in a semi-auto package without the gun getting too big for most people's hands.
A few years ago I got to shoot an Australian built AR15, it costs $4200 USD, due to licensing and scale of manufacture (some can purchase but can’t import)
I got the sproing from it too
Please compare the CMMG to an MP5! But make sure to remove the muzzle brake first so it's a fair competition. :p
Muzzle brakes don't work on an AR9 (not enough gas/velocity) except to throw more noise back at the shooter. Smart shooters put a linear comp "noise forwarding" device on them.
@@kodiakkeith I agree! I'd still remove it though, it gives one less thing for people to say could bias the test. Bare muzzle vs bare muzzle will completely isolate the results to just the operating system.
If it comes from the factory with the brake, it would be unfair to remove it. Either you test as is, or you just admit you are trying to tilt the scales
@@rollastudent I suppose so, but a muzzle brake on a 9 is just a thread protector. I suspect Gun Haysoos knows that and will act accordingly if he adopts this orphan 9mm.
@@rollastudent Nah, just isolate the performance to one part. I'm saying test the operating system, not the gun as a whole.
Very nice ricochet sounds.
Ian, I value your content greatly. Now here it a tip for you. Exchange buffer tube for Vltor A5 or BCM equivalent, and then add a Kynshot RB5007 6.3oz hydraulic buffer, and tubbs 556 flatwire spring or maybe jp rifle spring. Enjoy! And don’t thank me, thank a guy named Amphibian. Cheers!
I'd like to see this gun in 7.62x25mm Tokarev. Probably not a very big market for that round though.
4:47 you hear the classic Western Bullet Ricochet noise.
FYI CMMG has the 5.7x28 AR conversion mags as well as 9mm. It holds 40 rounds.
Sick videos brother
I like how that double echo gives the viewer an idea of how LOUD even a 9mm really is.
I agree and adding my 5 cent here. When I shot AKM (7.62x39), AKS-74U (5.45x39) and PM (9x18 Makarov) back to back the AKM had the least noise level and concussion as perceived by the shooter. Location of the muzzle blast, muzzle device, barrel length etc matters a lot more than caliber. AS-74U due to the short barrel is uncomfortable for me to shoot even with good ear protection. 9mm carbines with barrel much longer than that of typical 9x19mm pistols are in contrast very pleasant to shoot. I must say, of popular calibers only 22lr is still somewhat fun to shoot without good ear protection.
Bottom of the eotech circle. Circle is 65 moa, half that is 32.5 moa, 1 inch per hundred yards x 200 yards= 65 inches of hold off. That’s a lot
I’m more interested in the magazines. If they made those inserts for pmag 40s, I’d be real interested. 30 rounds for a PCC match just isn’t quite enough.
This platform has really got me interested in the 5.7 version.
Mr. money bags here
Loving mine in 10mm
2:24 two finger grip on the hand guard told me everything.
That trigger pull looks great.
A quick perusal of their website does not show a .357 SIG option (rats), but they do carry a model that shoots the even stranger FN 5.7x28 mm.
.357sig is not very popular in the US, while 5.7x28 is somewhat more popular.
your books must be selling well. for some reason this video not only decided it required subtitles despite me never turning them on, but they are also in French.
Another problem with something like 9mm at 200 is there's not much visible "Piff!" in the dirt, to see your point of impact. Compared to intermediate rounds like .223 Remington.
you could modify 6.8 SPC mags to work like that for 10mm and .40 short and weak. 10, .40, and 6.8 SPC are all based off the .30 remington case head
Thank you , Ian
0:35 why does it sound like someone messed up the foley for the loading sound? lol
AR spring "sproinge" can be fixed with a Strike Industries Flat wire spring. I love mine.
Cool, the sprooooing in my Troy is annoying me.
I could be wrong, but 357 sig would probably work well with a carbine setup like this. The round has a flatter trajectory relative to 9mm and seems like it would lend itself to better performance through a longer barrel.
The 10mm was a quite pleasant shooter compared to straight blowback as well. However, their chamber allowed it to bulge brass.
For all that I found the technicalities interesting, the gun looks very run of the mill in action.
You pull the trigger and it goes bang. Were you expecting something else?
That looks such good fun. Sadly here in the UK there are no semi auto's save in .22LR.
You are welcome to move to the US, we are more than happy to get more gun owners here!
Was hoping to see a range video! Praise Ian
You should link the original video in the description.
Good one. It is a pretty effective solution cmmg came up with
This dude is a badass...he looks like he would be fun to drink with.
after corona
He used to be a bartender
@@adog3129 He definitely knows his liquor
I have had one of these in 5.7x28 that makes a 200 yard shot fairly easy.
I'm sold.
7.62×25 would be an interesting cartridge for this design.
Is the sound at 4:48 and 5:08 that of ricochets passing close to the camerman? Curious
Not directly, but good catch... rising pitch, the distance is closing. Probably negative 10-20 degree rising trajectory (referencing the target face as zero degrees, so nearly out to the side but coming back a little bit)
Innovation. So what you are saying is:
"Neva bin dun befoa"
The Banshee sounded like shaking a handful beans in a plastic jar.