All these years I thought I was hearing voices in my head, but now I finally learned it's just the components in my Atari games discussing the voltage!
You're really spoiling us with all these videos. I would just like to say a huge thanks. Really enjoy. More so as being in a wheelchair here in uk I've never come across a disabled friendly pinball. Height being the main problem. Thanks again.
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!.... One of my all time favourites... Beaten by Robotron and Defender of course and equalled by Gauntlet. This is going to be an enjoyable series. ... Watch out for the spikes!!
Maybe a compromise to both using the mod vs not using the mod would be to add a diode between the connector and the resistor on both sense lines that would prevent the cpu\mainboard from pulling power from the power board over the sense lines. You would have to adjust for the .5 to .7 voltage drop from the diodes (probably means changing a few other resisters). This would allow you to keep the sense lines and prevent the resisters from burning up, although it would also mean modding the board a bit more to add the diodes. Just a thought. Looks to be a design over site or just being cheap back in the day. Thanks for the videos.
Ron, really enjoy your videos. 40 years ago I was a teenage board swapping game tech. Remember Mirco Pong? I still have a cocktail table machine in the basement with a Motorola monochrome monitor. Anyway, one bone to pick with you. Larger diameter, smaller gauge number, wire has less resistance per foot compared to smaller diameter, higher gauge number, wire. Less resistance at the equal current is lower voltage drop in the wire. Keep up the videos. I've learned a lot from you. Thanks.
The sense lines don’t carry any current (or a small enough current that it doesn’t make any difference), so there’s no voltage drop on those lines. There’s lots of current on the main lines, so there will be voltage drop across any resistance there as Ron explains. That’s how it is supposed to work. It breaks down when the sense lines start being a current path. There should be a better isolation circuit on the sense circuit, so Atari is at fault on their original design.
Such an Iconic Game. I sure appreciate the explanation of the AR2 and the Sense mod. That whole system sure has caused some confusion over the years. Gotta hand it to those Atari engineers who came up with that whole self adjusting system. Really pretty ingenious. Gives us something to tweak around with forty years later!
Great vid. Can’t wait for part 2. I just love watching you restore the amazing machines that made my childhood so exciting I also like the fact that the vids are long! By the way. At the shop where I work we have a SEGA Baywatch pinball. Are they rare to find these days?
Well about any title doesn’t pop up much anymore but it’s not necessarily more wanted than any of the others. Cool game though who doesn’t love bay watch?
Absolutely loved playing Tempest. Played so much and so hard I ended up bruising my right hand. Had to put my self on a self imposed break to heal up. Lol
A dirty meter means you are too busy to clean it!😆 Tempest is my favourite game from back when and it ate many weeks of allowance and babysitting money...hence why i have 2 of these nowadays...1 needs work and your vids are encouraging my lazy butt to fix it and my Sea Wolf.... Keep up the great vids and remember: illegitimus non carborundum est!
Very Iconic game. I remember the first few minutes of the movie Night Of The Comet Regina was playing this game and Mel, her boss at the Movie Theater was yelling at her to Walk The House If you have never seen Night Of The Comet, you should see it. It is a classic.
@@LyonsArcade 1984, It was an instant classic. It was a sci-fi movie about a comet that had been in an orbit so large that it had not been seen since the dinosaurs were wiped out. The guy that played on Voyager the Star trek show that was on TV that's actually in reruns on the H&I network each night, I think the guy's name was Beltran, he played chicote on Voyager and he was in this movie it was one of the first movies he did It is a very eighties movie and see ing the technology that was cutting-edge back then that now is antique and just so many things about the movie that back then it was all new but today all of it is retro I wish they would have some of these movies back in theaters 83 and 84 there were some really great movies that even now if they were re-released they would make money Flashdance is one of them Footloose is another But there were so many really great movies from the '80s I've been watching the Terminator series that was on TV about 10 years ago called Terminator the Sarah Connor Chronicles and the show was as good as Terminator and Terminator 3 and better than the other Terminator movies and I wish they would bring that cast back to make the final Terminator movie That show would have made an excellent arcade game and an excellent pinball machine If you've never seen the Sarah Connor Chronicles it only ran for two seasons it's really worth watching the whole thing from start to finish Some of the episodes were as good as any Blockbuster movie The woman from game of thrones that played cersei she was Sarah Connor in the show and the woman from the band garbage I think that was the name of the band Shirley Manson she played the new model T-1001 liquid metal Terminator She was phenomenal in that role and the scenes where they filmed were amazing One of the places they used is a famous house outside of Malibu that was used for the Ironman film and I recognized the scene when I first saw it on TV because of one of the satellite communication centers that if you pause at the right moment you can see The Hundred-Foot diameter satellite dishes in the background It was not meant to be part of the shot but it really added to the futuristic feel of the show It would be awesome if there was a way that you could create a back glass and new pop bumpers and targets and artwork maybe using a 3D printer and create a Terminator Sarah Connor Chronicles pinball machine It's the sort of thing that would have a big audience if it existed and it's the sort of thing that if I were Bill Gates or Warren Buffett and had unlimited money I'd have someone make one for me. The music and the sound effects in the show would be awesome to load into a pinball machine I'm sure there's someone who could do the artwork and hack the sound chips of an existing pinball machine and create one.
Excellent video. Thank you for going through your diagnostic process step by strep. One minor issue: tarnish is not the same thing as oxidation, Copper (and silver) can react with sulfur in the air to create tarnish. It's not the same as an oxide; but both are non-conductive and need to be cleaned to get good electrical contact.
One of my favorite arcade games ever! I can understand why Atari had that Sense circuit; they probably never expected any of the machines to be kept long enough for the edge connector to tarnish. Hindsight is always 20/20, though, and I think Atari eventually learned from their mistake, resulting in the AR3. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, Ron: As far as I can figure out, the AR and AR2 are electrically compatible, to the point that you can replace the AR with an AR2; you just won't be using all the AR2's outputs. However, they both have the Sense circuit, and therefore the same flaw. The AR3 is *not* electrically compatible, but doesn't have the same issue with the Sense circuit (or doesn't have a Sense circuit, or uses a different design that prevents it from burning out the resistors. I can't find a lot of information on the AR3, so I don't know. I just know that as far as I can tell, the AR3 doesn't need the mod.)
Yes you're correct... and you hit on the correct point too, the whole issue is they were never designed to last 40 years! most of them did pretty good for 10 or 15 years so honestly, even if we have to mod them or change some things and rebuild things, a power supply you can't really expect to last much longer than that anyways, so I don't really have a problem with them. I'm glad somebody figured out what we need to do to fix them, or at least how they operate! Yeah the AR3 as you know they didn't use that too long, to be honest it was kind of the same way, it didn't have the sense circuit but usually they AR3's aren't working either and need to be gone through. It's a situation though where even if you replace everything on it, it costs like 15 bucks maybe so I really like the Atari supplies personally!
That Fluke meter is beautiful as it is. No need to clean it. I have a Fluke 23 also and it looks just about like that. That is a well used and dependable tool. Micro Farad. Dirty meters. Come on, people! Let the man work without nitpicking! ;)
They can't help themselves, I can't understand the psychology of someone who'll watch an hour long video, then they go out of their way to find the 1 thing they didn't like and bitch about it in the comments, LOL NEUROTIC
I'm glad you mentioned the name of the printing company and the UK slang it represents. I just wish we had more arcade machines available in this country to buy, as I love the idea of owning an arcade but have very little space to do so :/ So, I remember a smaller cabinet version of the Atari games being the most popular one in the UK. The American versions of the cabinets seem much larger, and im guessing that is because Atari licensed the manufacture of the cabinets for the UK/EU to other companies and the probably used different hardware. I did see a full size Gravitar once in a travelling Fun Fair, but most cabinets in the UK were JAMMA cabinets with a generic marquee
Please don't stop doing the repair videos. Also, have you ever gotten the original Street Fighter arcade come through your shop? Not Street Fighter II but the first one.
Look at that dust. The number one enemy of the electronic parts :D Anyways, keep up with the good work. I often watch your videos when I am having lunch or dinner.
I have haters man, they follow me around and jump on me as soon as the video starts... They're some of my biggest fans, they thumbs down as soon as the video goes live, LOL BTW RUclips's algorithm doesn't care if it's a thumbs up or thumbs down, they 'push' the video around more based on interaction, even if it's negative. So they're helping me, LOL
My fluke 77 looks like it has past the drain a couple of hundred times, but it works fine. ;) (even if it smells pretty anomalous) Thanks for another great uppload!!!
They could have made pinball machines for flashdance. I'm surprised they didn't make one for flashdance That soundtrack was incredible Many of the songs on that soundtrack went to number one That movie was so 1984 I'm sure you must have seen flash dance but if anybody has never seen it you definitely should see it and see it on the biggest screen you can in the dark with Dolby sound They have several special cuts there's collector DVDs that have extra scenes but the original movie exactly as it was in the theater is the way it should be seen. They filmed it all on location and it was a basic storyline and it was only 90 minutes long and that was back when they could really tell a story with 90 minutes and it felt longer it felt like there was more there because of the phenomenal job they did with editing Another really incredible film from 1984 was Vision Quest With all the remakes that they do of all these classic movies I think they should just re-release them in their original format in the theaters for all the people who remember them when they first came out who would go and see them and for all the people who have never seen them all the 20-somethings that have never seen these incredible movies weird science is another one that was so 1984 That might be something that you could look into making custom pinball machines out of machines that didn't sell very well You could do custom artwork making new back glasses and new playfields and with a 3D printer you could print up new drop targets and new pop bumpers and all sorts of new plastic pieces with new artwork designed right into the plastic. And with the sound boards you could load wav files or MP3s into them and create custom machines that have never existed before for people who want a specific machine based on a specific movie or theme
That game is an all-time classic. Worked for a computer store in the early 90s and the owner had one of these in the back room that we used to play. I seem to recall the vector monitors for these were problematic and even back then replacements were hard to come by. Is that still the case?
Yes, absolutely. They haven't made them since 1983! We're still cobbling them together though. They've remade some of the boards but the tube itself is an issue... some people though have been able to create brand new ones using used t.v. tubes.
I had no idea those kill switches on the back door can be pulled out to lock them on! 😅 I pulled hair out over the summer working on my Time Crisis 2 and the tape I was using to hold the switch in wouldn’t hold for very long when I was trying to test it.
It still works as a sort of sense circuit when you do the mod. It just monitors the direct output of the regulator, rather than the return voltage. Once the boards start burning like that, they can become conductive. Carbon Tracking is the term used. Not so much a drama on low voltage, but it still is conductive once it turns to carbon. Much better to avoid the fire and do the mod in my opinion. Atari never meant these games to last this long when they were first made. The Edge Connector would have been fine for the first 2 or 3 years
I agree wholeheartedly... by the way, I'm glad you brought up the conductive carbon thing (and others did too) awhile back, I didn't realize that... and I ran into that exact problem on some "Pennant Fever" games we're working on right now, I filmed the whole thing so the videos will pop up eventually on here. Basically the board burnt and had shorted the voltage to ground took me awhile to figure it out, it was shorted through the carbon and nothing else!
@@LyonsArcade A lot of those resistors you see on boards use a combination of carbon and metal film.with the thickness and layout of the carbon and metal basically determining the power rating and resistance. Obviously that is the simplified description, but you get the idea :). Going back a little while, they use to use carbon composition resisors that were all carbon and used varying densities of carbon to vary the resistances
HI Ron - Questions! I have some! - You mentioned the schematics, and how they're awkward sizes. I notice also that more often than not, these appear to be scans of original, hand-drawn schematics. In your opinion, would there be any advantage to having these schematics redrawn in some sort of schematic layout app, so one could conceivably, click on a trace, and have the entire pathway highlight (for example)? - Your opinions are well known concerning the use of LEDs in pinball machines, Do you have any strong opinions concerning the use of LEDs in coin doors, or marquees in video games? - I realize you've already filmed the repair of this particular machine, but are you planning on showcasing the spinner control (or possibly rebuilding it)? As much as I love Tempest (and I love it a lot), the spinner control often develops a 'jitter' which is noticeable when spinning the control rapidly. If this one didn't need to be looked at, perhaps in a future video?
This particular controller was still in good shape so I didn't mess with it, and to be honest I've had three or four Tempests and never had any problem with the controller other than some of them make noise, which doesn't bother me... if I ever get one in that doesn't work right though I guess i'll film it :) I don't mind if people put LED bulbs in the coin doors but I don't really understand why they do. they burn out like every 10 years then you put another 10 cent bulb in... Or the marquee, I just put the regular bulbs in, the Marquee bulbs we buy for $1.50, the starter is like 50 cents. Or you can hack all the stuff out and wire in a new LED fixture, but if it ever goes bad or has any LED's go out you can't repair it because it's inferior to the original design. Seems like a downgrade to me but that's just my opinion. I don't mind the schematics really the way they are, I usually print out sections of it, I just personally like having some paper I can scribble on but I've heard of some people who prefer to have it on an IPAD or something, whatever that is :) Thanks for watching Dave!
The jitter is, in my experience, due to the potentiometer needing a good clean, or a worn contact ring. (However, my experience is limited to old controller paddles like the ones for the Atari 2600, so take this with a grain of salt.) On the Atari 2600 paddles, once you take apart the pot, there are six metal tabs and a black ring that get filthy and stop making good contact. This is what causes the jitter, at least on those paddles, but it's nothing you can't fix with a little IPA and a Q-Tip (just be careful not to leave any cotton behind). I don't know about the Tempest spinner, but I'd imagine it isn't too dissimilar.
@@SpearM3064 I understand about the potentiometer 'jitter', and agree with your assessment about cleaning the pot to fix that problem. The 'jitter' I was referring to on the Tempest spinner (which, in retrospect, was a poor choice of terminology on my part...) is more of a mechanical 'rattle'. Spinners and Paddle controls are similar in function (both are analog controls), but while the paddle control is based on a potentiometer (and therefore has a limited twist range), a spinner makes use of an optical-inturrupt (opto) system, basically a disk with a series of holes, that cause a light to 'pulse' as it turns, and that light is read by a sensor, and moves one unit per pulse. Trackballs make use of the same system, but with two optos, one for the X axis, and one for Y. In the arcade world, paddle games include (but are certainly not limited to); Pong (and it's variants), Breakout, Circus, Warlords, and any driving game where the steering wheel has a rotation limit. Spinner games include (and again, not limited to); Tempest, Tron, Major Havoc, and Pole Position (as the steering wheel has 360º rotation) The 'rattle' in the Tempest control is usually caused by a worn bearing (I think... I could easily be mistaken...)
@@LyonsArcade Thanks Ron, I appreciate your insight... :-) My $0.02 about marquee LED lights has to do with preserving the original marquees. Some cabinets I've run across have been set up to use Edison style incandescent bulbs in the marquee area, and if one puts bulbs that are of too high a wattage, they can cause the marquee to fade, warp, or otherwise become damaged due to the heat and light. LED bulbs run cooler, and can be used directly in place of Edison style bulbs, and I believe proper sizes of replacement 'florescent style' tubes may be available to use with existing fixtures. As an added bonus, they're shatter-resistant, and contain no mercury, so there's that...;-) Oh, and for what it's worth, Watching your videos is one of the high points of my day...:-D
To improve the design the sense lines need schottky diodes on both sense + and - to prevent sending out power but definitely a sense line delete improves reliability.
Spent way too much time and money playing this at the student union at the University of Maryland. Then I would go and study and I would see the little red guys sliding across the pages of the book.
Would it be possible to put something like a fuse (well, the opposite of one) across the sense line that would blow if the voltage went too low and you could just replace it instead? Just brainstorming.
I wonder why type of wire gauge and type of edge connector and pins to use to have very low resistance so that the Atari Sense circuit will work better.
This might be a senseless comment, couldn’t you also up the wattage of the resistor (based on the watts the track size can handle)? There might be lots of different ways to fix the sense/senseless problem...
That may possibly solve the burning resistor issue, but the same issue that burns up the resistor also unregulates the voltage. So other components on the main board may also start dropping dead at that point. What Atari should have done, if they thought the +5V was that critical, was used gold plated contacts on the power plug connectors, so that it wouldn't corrode.
Do you have any games at your house or do you just fix em there and play em there this games a classic like all I have this on a moded xbox but it's not the same lol cool channel.
What a big mistake of putting a 10 Ohmn resistor there only. This should be able to be fixed changing the resistors values, sonthe resistor and tje board do not die.
I was thinking the same thing. Basically a "circuit breaker" when the resistance gets too high in the 5V circuit the tech would know the edge connector needed repaired.
Hi Joe, another awesome video. Do you have an email address I can contact you at? I have some questions regarding some arcade machines. I'm hoping you can spare some time to answer them. Thanks in advance!
Q: so with OLED technology, would it be better to replace the CRT all together? I mean if it's not a super classic with extra alue and rarity and all that - strictly talking electronically - like when you replaced the sound board on Medusa.
It's a different technology, you can't replace it with an OLED screen because it's not a Raster monitor, it's a Vector monitor. It's like trying to replace your Iphone screen with a CRT.... completely different design, technology, etc.
I always put higher voltage and higher values for resistors, capacitors, Diodes, anything else I can if I have a power supply go bad. Also the transformer, I will put in a higher wattage transformer. I also run larger wires, I replaced an 18 gauge with a 14 gauge wire, to lessen the voltage drop. The resistance should be the same. Wires usually have so close to zero, the biggest hurdle is the voltage drop. The longer the distance, the less voltage at the destination. By increasing the diameter of the wire, the loss of voltage is less. I would put in at least a 1 watt resistor, if not a 2 watt resistor and I would put double the voltage. If the original caps were 12 volt, I would put in a 25 or even a 50 volt, if I have the space. I wonder why they didn't do a modification where they just replaced the voltage regulator with a dumber voltage regulator that doesn't have the sense wires and terminals. I remember swapping out a controller in a satellite receiver that looked like a 5 volt voltage regulator but when I looked at the schematic for what all was inside this little device there were 48 separate capacitors and resistors and transistors and all these parts miniaturized to fit into this one little transistor size component. That one part cost 80% of the cost of the receiver to replace, and were it not for the receiver having encryption and being keyed to our account I would have just replaced the receiver.
@@LyonsArcade From memory folk....LOL, end the game, the score needs to have a zero (0) on the last digit, then enter the first 2 characters (out of 3) of you name then wait a good long moment. P.S. I used to play that game in a arcade parlor (can't recall the name) on Ste-Catherine st. near the old forum in Montréal, Québec, Canada.
@@LyonsArcade Apparently my memory is not that good, so I google it ;). Info below is copy and paste from the mention site According to Joystik magazine quote in wikipedia: "After this issue was discovered, Atari corrected the problem so that further shipping machines were incapable of allowing the end score tricks. It was also noted in Joystik that Atari shipped updated chips to be replaced in the field." www.classicarcadegaming.com/forums/index.php/topic,1193.msg15049.html#msg15049 Tempest Cheats: ArcadeHistory.com * These are cheats (They weren't cheats at all. They were intentionally programmed in as a security measure). They were removed in ROM 217 and 222 software revision 2. First, you must complete level 8 and get a score with the format XXYYZZ: XX must be greater than 16, YY between 29 and 60, ZZ is a code listed below... 00 - freeze screen 01 - access bookkeeping totals 05 - allows playing during attract mode 06 - 40 free credits 11 - 40 free credits 12 - 40 free credits 14 - credit sound without actual credit 15 - credit sound without actual credit 16 - 40 free credits 17 - 40 free credits 18 - 40 free credits 41 - switch last 2 digits of score 42 - increase score quickly 46 - demonstration mode - start at any level, up to level 81 50 - player moves by itself 51 - player moves by itself 60 - objects drift down 66 - objects drift right 67 - objects jump 68 - objects drift up 70 - objects drift up After code '05' (play during attract mode) is activated, the following cheats become available... Set the last two digits to 46: Random-colored level with wrong enemies. Set the last two digits to 48: 255 extra lives.
you think you're very intelligent, but you're making remarks on a video that's already been recorded. How could I possibly talk less, and troubleshoot more? The videos already been recorded years ago. Think how damn dumb you are.
All these years I thought I was hearing voices in my head, but now I finally learned it's just the components in my Atari games discussing the voltage!
This game was an amazing sensory overload when I first played it as a young sprout. Love those old vector games!
The blinking start buttons was such a great feature. So simple but so iconic. Seeing the Atari games that had these was such a thrill. Simple genius
You're really spoiling us with all these videos. I would just like to say a huge thanks. Really enjoy. More so as being in a wheelchair here in uk I've never come across a disabled friendly pinball. Height being the main problem. Thanks again.
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!.... One of my all time favourites... Beaten by Robotron and Defender of course and equalled by Gauntlet. This is going to be an enjoyable series. ... Watch out for the spikes!!
Thanks Richard we appreciate you watching :)
Maybe a compromise to both using the mod vs not using the mod would be to add a diode between the connector and the resistor on both sense lines that would prevent the cpu\mainboard from pulling power from the power board over the sense lines. You would have to adjust for the .5 to .7 voltage drop from the diodes (probably means changing a few other resisters). This would allow you to keep the sense lines and prevent the resisters from burning up, although it would also mean modding the board a bit more to add the diodes. Just a thought.
Looks to be a design over site or just being cheap back in the day.
Thanks for the videos.
My all time favourite arcade game ever! I'd sure love to have one.
Me too !
Anyone with a private arcade should have one of these...
+1
Vector is right up my alley inside and out!
Fixing Atari's Tempest..? Hell Yeah..!!
...and I found the description of the need for the Sense Mod real interesting - a simple let great little fix.
People feel strongly both ways 😎
Ron, really enjoy your videos. 40 years ago I was a teenage board swapping game tech. Remember Mirco Pong? I still have a cocktail table machine in the basement with a Motorola monochrome monitor. Anyway, one bone to pick with you. Larger diameter, smaller gauge number, wire has less resistance per foot compared to smaller diameter, higher gauge number, wire. Less resistance at the equal current is lower voltage drop in the wire. Keep up the videos. I've learned a lot from you. Thanks.
When did I say otherwise?
@@LyonsArcade At about 44:05 you said "since the sense wires are thinner they don't have hardly any resistance"
The sense lines don’t carry any current (or a small enough current that it doesn’t make any difference), so there’s no voltage drop on those lines. There’s lots of current on the main lines, so there will be voltage drop across any resistance there as Ron explains. That’s how it is supposed to work. It breaks down when the sense lines start being a current path. There should be a better isolation circuit on the sense circuit, so Atari is at fault on their original design.
Ron sent me today. :) One of my favorite games EVER....
Love these,,being navy trained and an arcade nerd it really helps
thanks Kevin, I appreciate you watching!
Such an Iconic Game. I sure appreciate the explanation of the AR2 and the Sense mod. That whole system sure has caused some confusion over the years. Gotta hand it to those Atari engineers who came up with that whole self adjusting system. Really pretty ingenious. Gives us something to tweak around with forty years later!
That's a lot of POKEYs! Amazing they didn't do stereo sound eith all those channels. Cool video, thanks!
I think it's just one or two, the other ones are different and do all the math necessary to scale the graphics
Great vid. Can’t wait for part 2. I just love watching you restore the amazing machines that made my childhood so exciting I also like the fact that the vids are long! By the way. At the shop where I work we have a SEGA Baywatch pinball. Are they rare to find these days?
Well about any title doesn’t pop up much anymore but it’s not necessarily more wanted than any of the others. Cool game though who doesn’t love bay watch?
Fair play that printing name is pretty funny, goes well with fanny pack lol.
Omg! I was the KING of Tempest! Good find!
I really enjoyed the voice reenactment @44:57. Best time on RUclips!
Absolutely loved playing Tempest. Played so much and so hard I ended up bruising my right hand. Had to put my self on a self imposed break to heal up. Lol
Tempest was ny go-to at the arcade..... what an awesome game.
Vector graphics for the win and spinner and Cab!
Yup!
A dirty meter means you are too busy to clean it!😆
Tempest is my favourite game from back when and it ate many weeks of allowance and babysitting money...hence why i have 2 of these nowadays...1 needs work and your vids are encouraging my lazy butt to fix it and my Sea Wolf....
Keep up the great vids and remember: illegitimus non carborundum est!
I’ll try not to 😎
I've been thinking about that FLUKE Multimeter.....and I gotta tell ya, a dirty device is a reliable device!!
Ain't that the truth! Thanks for watching Gustavo!
Very Iconic game. I remember the first few minutes of the movie
Night Of The Comet
Regina was playing this game and Mel, her boss at the Movie Theater was yelling at her to Walk The House
If you have never seen Night Of The Comet, you should see it. It is a classic.
Needs a good cleaning inside the case
I've never even heard it, i'll have to track that down!
@@LyonsArcade 1984, It was an instant classic. It was a sci-fi movie about a comet that had been in an orbit so large that it had not been seen since the dinosaurs were wiped out.
The guy that played on Voyager the Star trek show that was on TV that's actually in reruns on the H&I network each night, I think the guy's name was Beltran, he played chicote on Voyager and he was in this movie it was one of the first movies he did
It is a very eighties movie and see ing the technology that was cutting-edge back then that now is antique and just so many things about the movie that back then it was all new but today all of it is retro
I wish they would have some of these movies back in theaters
83 and 84 there were some really great movies that even now if they were re-released they would make money
Flashdance is one of them
Footloose is another
But there were so many really great movies from the '80s
I've been watching the Terminator series that was on TV about 10 years ago called Terminator the Sarah Connor Chronicles and the show was as good as Terminator and Terminator 3 and better than the other Terminator movies and I wish they would bring that cast back to make the final Terminator movie
That show would have made an excellent arcade game and an excellent pinball machine
If you've never seen the Sarah Connor Chronicles it only ran for two seasons it's really worth watching the whole thing from start to finish
Some of the episodes were as good as any Blockbuster movie
The woman from game of thrones that played cersei she was Sarah Connor in the show and the woman from the band garbage I think that was the name of the band Shirley Manson she played the new model T-1001 liquid metal Terminator
She was phenomenal in that role and the scenes where they filmed were amazing
One of the places they used is a famous house outside of Malibu that was used for the Ironman film and I recognized the scene when I first saw it on TV because of one of the satellite communication centers that if you pause at the right moment you can see The Hundred-Foot diameter satellite dishes in the background
It was not meant to be part of the shot but it really added to the futuristic feel of the show
It would be awesome if there was a way that you could create a back glass and new pop bumpers and targets and artwork maybe using a 3D printer and create a Terminator Sarah Connor Chronicles pinball machine
It's the sort of thing that would have a big audience if it existed and it's the sort of thing that if I were Bill Gates or Warren Buffett and had unlimited money I'd have someone make one for me.
The music and the sound effects in the show would be awesome to load into a pinball machine
I'm sure there's someone who could do the artwork and hack the sound chips of an existing pinball machine and create one.
Hey, I think a filthy meter is a good sign of a busy worker! Idle tools collect moss, or something like that.
Yeah I agree 😎
Excellent video. Thank you for going through your diagnostic process step by strep. One minor issue: tarnish is not the same thing as oxidation, Copper (and silver) can react with sulfur in the air to create tarnish. It's not the same as an oxide; but both are non-conductive and need to be cleaned to get good electrical contact.
One of my favorite arcade games ever! I can understand why Atari had that Sense circuit; they probably never expected any of the machines to be kept long enough for the edge connector to tarnish. Hindsight is always 20/20, though, and I think Atari eventually learned from their mistake, resulting in the AR3.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, Ron: As far as I can figure out, the AR and AR2 are electrically compatible, to the point that you can replace the AR with an AR2; you just won't be using all the AR2's outputs. However, they both have the Sense circuit, and therefore the same flaw. The AR3 is *not* electrically compatible, but doesn't have the same issue with the Sense circuit (or doesn't have a Sense circuit, or uses a different design that prevents it from burning out the resistors. I can't find a lot of information on the AR3, so I don't know. I just know that as far as I can tell, the AR3 doesn't need the mod.)
Yes you're correct... and you hit on the correct point too, the whole issue is they were never designed to last 40 years! most of them did pretty good for 10 or 15 years so honestly, even if we have to mod them or change some things and rebuild things, a power supply you can't really expect to last much longer than that anyways, so I don't really have a problem with them. I'm glad somebody figured out what we need to do to fix them, or at least how they operate!
Yeah the AR3 as you know they didn't use that too long, to be honest it was kind of the same way, it didn't have the sense circuit but usually they AR3's aren't working either and need to be gone through.
It's a situation though where even if you replace everything on it, it costs like 15 bucks maybe so I really like the Atari supplies personally!
That Fluke meter is beautiful as it is. No need to clean it. I have a Fluke 23 also and it looks just about like that. That is a well used and dependable tool. Micro Farad. Dirty meters. Come on, people! Let the man work without nitpicking! ;)
They can't help themselves, I can't understand the psychology of someone who'll watch an hour long video, then they go out of their way to find the 1 thing they didn't like and bitch about it in the comments, LOL NEUROTIC
I'm glad you mentioned the name of the printing company and the UK slang it represents. I just wish we had more arcade machines available in this country to buy, as I love the idea of owning an arcade but have very little space to do so :/
So, I remember a smaller cabinet version of the Atari games being the most popular one in the UK. The American versions of the cabinets seem much larger, and im guessing that is because Atari licensed the manufacture of the cabinets for the UK/EU to other companies and the probably used different hardware. I did see a full size Gravitar once in a travelling Fun Fair, but most cabinets in the UK were JAMMA cabinets with a generic marquee
A lot of those smaller machines were made in Ireland by Atari, check this out! - ruclips.net/video/easdK_IGASY/видео.html
@@LyonsArcade i didnt know that! thanks :D
Please don't stop doing the repair videos. Also, have you ever gotten the original Street Fighter arcade come through your shop? Not Street Fighter II but the first one.
I've had the 6 button one but I've never had the pneumatic button one.... ruclips.net/video/c0rdmLjxL7U/видео.html
Great description on how the power supply works....:)
I have to watch this again because my brain is fried. I’m going to watch a Donnie video. Great job Ron.
Ha thanks Clint, we appreciate that!
Look at that dust. The number one enemy of the electronic parts :D
Anyways, keep up with the good work. I often watch your videos when I am having lunch or dinner.
No one could ever beat my hi score on this one..
Pole position too
I’m gonna film myself playing it once I fix it, I’m prob great at it right?
another great video! love it! Great freakin game
Thanks Mikey, glad you enjoyed it!
Four people don't know how to fix arcades. Great Video as always.
I have haters man, they follow me around and jump on me as soon as the video starts... They're some of my biggest fans, they thumbs down as soon as the video goes live, LOL BTW RUclips's algorithm doesn't care if it's a thumbs up or thumbs down, they 'push' the video around more based on interaction, even if it's negative. So they're helping me, LOL
@@LyonsArcade That's unfortunate, if I lived out where you are I would be helping My Brother Donnie with mechanical stuff.
My fluke 77 looks like it has past the drain a couple of hundred times, but it works fine. ;) (even if it smells pretty anomalous) Thanks for another great uppload!!!
Love Tempest!!! Great video!
Thanks for explaining why the circuit is prone to failure due to edge connection.
COOL! Used to play the heck out of this.
Nifty! A Monday fix fix. 😎😎
They could have made pinball machines for flashdance.
I'm surprised they didn't make one for flashdance
That soundtrack was incredible
Many of the songs on that soundtrack went to number one
That movie was so 1984
I'm sure you must have seen flash dance but if anybody has never seen it you definitely should see it and see it on the biggest screen you can in the dark with Dolby sound
They have several special cuts there's collector DVDs that have extra scenes but the original movie exactly as it was in the theater is the way it should be seen.
They filmed it all on location and it was a basic storyline and it was only 90 minutes long and that was back when they could really tell a story with 90 minutes and it felt longer it felt like there was more there because of the phenomenal job they did with editing
Another really incredible film from 1984 was Vision Quest
With all the remakes that they do of all these classic movies I think they should just re-release them in their original format in the theaters
for all the people who remember them when they first came out who would go and see them and for all the people who have never seen them all the 20-somethings that have never seen these incredible movies
weird science is another one that was so 1984
That might be something that you could look into making custom pinball machines out of machines that didn't sell very well
You could do custom artwork making new back glasses and new playfields and with a 3D printer you could print up new drop targets and new pop bumpers and all sorts of new plastic pieces with new artwork designed right into the plastic.
And with the sound boards you could load wav files or MP3s into them and create custom machines that have never existed before for people who want a specific machine based on a specific movie or theme
Tempest can be seen in the video for the song 'Subdivisions' by RUSH! (1982)
Always look forward to your videos. 👍👍
Was planning on checking out Players Choice this year when we go on vacation. Covid changed those plans. Maybe next year!
He’ll be waiting for you!
That game is an all-time classic. Worked for a computer store in the early 90s and the owner had one of these in the back room that we used to play. I seem to recall the vector monitors for these were problematic and even back then replacements were hard to come by. Is that still the case?
Yes, absolutely. They haven't made them since 1983! We're still cobbling them together though. They've remade some of the boards but the tube itself is an issue... some people though have been able to create brand new ones using used t.v. tubes.
I had no idea those kill switches on the back door can be pulled out to lock them on! 😅 I pulled hair out over the summer working on my Time Crisis 2 and the tape I was using to hold the switch in wouldn’t hold for very long when I was trying to test it.
Used to be a cheat, if you could get to a certain lvl (wish I could remember) you die with a score ending in "1" and it would ring up 40 credits.
Make sure you replace the giant cap on the power supply they get into trouble after 100,000 plays
Did you watch the part where we tested it?
Joe's Classic Video Games But did you play it 100,000 times?
Just got an Atari T-Mek im trouble shooting video artifacting issues. Its not pretty but its huge :)
I grew up playing tempest,an iconic game!
It still works as a sort of sense circuit when you do the mod. It just monitors the direct output of the regulator, rather than the return voltage. Once the boards start burning like that, they can become conductive. Carbon Tracking is the term used. Not so much a drama on low voltage, but it still is conductive once it turns to carbon. Much better to avoid the fire and do the mod in my opinion. Atari never meant these games to last this long when they were first made. The Edge Connector would have been fine for the first 2 or 3 years
I agree wholeheartedly... by the way, I'm glad you brought up the conductive carbon thing (and others did too) awhile back, I didn't realize that... and I ran into that exact problem on some "Pennant Fever" games we're working on right now, I filmed the whole thing so the videos will pop up eventually on here. Basically the board burnt and had shorted the voltage to ground took me awhile to figure it out, it was shorted through the carbon and nothing else!
@@LyonsArcade A lot of those resistors you see on boards use a combination of carbon and metal film.with the thickness and layout of the carbon and metal basically determining the power rating and resistance. Obviously that is the simplified description, but you get the idea :). Going back a little while, they use to use carbon composition resisors that were all carbon and used varying densities of carbon to vary the resistances
Looks like you cut your hand at 7:04 when you pulled the white plug out. It was possibly on the sharp/cut end of a zip tie.
HI Ron -
Questions! I have some!
- You mentioned the schematics, and how they're awkward sizes. I notice also that more often than not, these appear to be scans of original, hand-drawn schematics. In your opinion, would there be any advantage to having these schematics redrawn in some sort of schematic layout app, so one could conceivably, click on a trace, and have the entire pathway highlight (for example)?
- Your opinions are well known concerning the use of LEDs in pinball machines, Do you have any strong opinions concerning the use of LEDs in coin doors, or marquees in video games?
- I realize you've already filmed the repair of this particular machine, but are you planning on showcasing the spinner control (or possibly rebuilding it)? As much as I love Tempest (and I love it a lot), the spinner control often develops a 'jitter' which is noticeable when spinning the control rapidly. If this one didn't need to be looked at, perhaps in a future video?
This particular controller was still in good shape so I didn't mess with it, and to be honest I've had three or four Tempests and never had any problem with the controller other than some of them make noise, which doesn't bother me... if I ever get one in that doesn't work right though I guess i'll film it :)
I don't mind if people put LED bulbs in the coin doors but I don't really understand why they do. they burn out like every 10 years then you put another 10 cent bulb in... Or the marquee, I just put the regular bulbs in, the Marquee bulbs we buy for $1.50, the starter is like 50 cents. Or you can hack all the stuff out and wire in a new LED fixture, but if it ever goes bad or has any LED's go out you can't repair it because it's inferior to the original design. Seems like a downgrade to me but that's just my opinion.
I don't mind the schematics really the way they are, I usually print out sections of it, I just personally like having some paper I can scribble on but I've heard of some people who prefer to have it on an IPAD or something, whatever that is :)
Thanks for watching Dave!
The jitter is, in my experience, due to the potentiometer needing a good clean, or a worn contact ring. (However, my experience is limited to old controller paddles like the ones for the Atari 2600, so take this with a grain of salt.) On the Atari 2600 paddles, once you take apart the pot, there are six metal tabs and a black ring that get filthy and stop making good contact. This is what causes the jitter, at least on those paddles, but it's nothing you can't fix with a little IPA and a Q-Tip (just be careful not to leave any cotton behind). I don't know about the Tempest spinner, but I'd imagine it isn't too dissimilar.
@@SpearM3064 I understand about the potentiometer 'jitter', and agree with your assessment about cleaning the pot to fix that problem. The 'jitter' I was referring to on the Tempest spinner (which, in retrospect, was a poor choice of terminology on my part...) is more of a mechanical 'rattle'.
Spinners and Paddle controls are similar in function (both are analog controls), but while the paddle control is based on a potentiometer (and therefore has a limited twist range), a spinner makes use of an optical-inturrupt (opto) system, basically a disk with a series of holes, that cause a light to 'pulse' as it turns, and that light is read by a sensor, and moves one unit per pulse. Trackballs make use of the same system, but with two optos, one for the X axis, and one for Y.
In the arcade world, paddle games include (but are certainly not limited to); Pong (and it's variants), Breakout, Circus, Warlords, and any driving game where the steering wheel has a rotation limit. Spinner games include (and again, not limited to); Tempest, Tron, Major Havoc, and Pole Position (as the steering wheel has 360º rotation)
The 'rattle' in the Tempest control is usually caused by a worn bearing (I think... I could easily be mistaken...)
@@LyonsArcade Thanks Ron, I appreciate your insight... :-)
My $0.02 about marquee LED lights has to do with preserving the original marquees. Some cabinets I've run across have been set up to use Edison style incandescent bulbs in the marquee area, and if one puts bulbs that are of too high a wattage, they can cause the marquee to fade, warp, or otherwise become damaged due to the heat and light. LED bulbs run cooler, and can be used directly in place of Edison style bulbs, and I believe proper sizes of replacement 'florescent style' tubes may be available to use with existing fixtures.
As an added bonus, they're shatter-resistant, and contain no mercury, so there's that...;-)
Oh, and for what it's worth, Watching your videos is one of the high points of my day...:-D
Ironically, I lived in Myrtle Beach back in the early 70;s.
To improve the design the sense lines need schottky diodes on both sense + and - to prevent sending out power but definitely a sense line delete improves reliability.
Yes! Let's do that.
The resistors that get hot should have longer leads and mounted higher off the board. Consider a higher current wire wound.
Yeeey! Love Tempest!
It's a classic!
Fantastic game!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm getting better at it!
@@LyonsArcade You becoming a 'Super Zapper'?!?
The thumbnail is broken but still I love tempest
RUclips keeps playing games lately, I don't know what they did to the thumbnail!
Spent way too much time and money playing this at the student union at the University of Maryland. Then I would go and study and I would see the little red guys sliding across the pages of the book.
That might have been the weed!
those cut wires maybe for cocktail cabinet ?
The people have been heard!
DEMOCRACY WINS
Halleluja :p
Many fond memories of tempest
It is a miracle that there were not fires when these components burned up.
I get out the air hose, blow it out and vacuum up the critters.
Hopefully they're old enough that they come apart and go up the hose :)
I bet these arcade clasics would be worth significantly more if not for emulators
maybe but the emulators are pretty cool to play :)
Would it be possible to put something like a fuse (well, the opposite of one) across the sense line that would blow if the voltage went too low and you could just replace it instead? Just brainstorming.
Do you use the canned air to clean the cases ?
No not usually!
1:27
Is that monitor surround piece that's normally behind the glass made of cardboard or plastic?
Cardboard, some of the newer games in the 90's started to be molded plastic
I wonder why type of wire gauge and type of edge connector and pins to use to have very low resistance so that the Atari Sense circuit will work better.
The fly back should deliver 26kv to the tube
That sounds right!
Tie wrap cut.
Just needs some TLC
Yup just needs a little hep
yeah! beatiful game
lol my meter hasn't gotten used since I fixed my C64. It keeps getting dusty and I keep cleaning it off.
This might be a senseless comment, couldn’t you also up the wattage of the resistor (based on the watts the track size can handle)? There might be lots of different ways to fix the sense/senseless problem...
That may possibly solve the burning resistor issue, but the same issue that burns up the resistor also unregulates the voltage. So other components on the main board may also start dropping dead at that point.
What Atari should have done, if they thought the +5V was that critical, was used gold plated contacts on the power plug connectors, so that it wouldn't corrode.
Do you have any games at your house or do you just fix em there and play em there this games a classic like all I have this on a moded xbox but it's not the same lol cool channel.
Thanks Jim, I have a few at my house, today's video actually shows a Phonograph at my house. Thanks for watching man we appreciate it.
Yea!
HERE WE GO!
I have joker poker high low double down. Looking to repair or sell. Need help?
What a big mistake of putting a 10 Ohmn resistor there only.
This should be able to be fixed changing the resistors values, sonthe resistor and tje board do not die.
Idea: why not mate the sense resistors with thermal cutoffs set to fail before the resistors do?
Good idea potentially, but I think the idea is to keep the machine as original as possible, with the exception of specific mods (safety or game mods)
I was thinking the same thing. Basically a "circuit breaker" when the resistance gets too high in the 5V circuit the tech would know the edge connector needed repaired.
you can take wood putty and fix that back wood part.
Superlatives. Don’t mock me, 😂
YEAH ! Tempest...People have moaned about your meter ..silly sods, anyway, used to love this game...cheers.
i hope you charge him a decent rate for this. some arcade owners don't pay the going rate.
The fluke - it’s not dirt- that’s called a patina
Hi Joe, another awesome video. Do you have an email address I can contact you at? I have some questions regarding some arcade machines. I'm hoping you can spare some time to answer them. Thanks in advance!
Yes I do, it's on our website, link is in the description of the video.
Why can't you just put a diode in front of the resistor to stop the current being drawn backwards through R29?
Maybe you can I’m not sure
I hate the RGB in that old machine. It makes it look like some overconfident basement dweller's gaming computer. It also just looks way too modern.
13:00 lol wut?!
Aw yeah, time to fix some Polybiu-- I mean ummm, Tempest. It totally wasn't the same game giving kids migraines in the 80's. >.>
Missing the Dutch Amazon link. *****.nl
Q: so with OLED technology, would it be better to replace the CRT all together? I mean if it's not a super classic with extra alue and rarity and all that - strictly talking electronically - like when you replaced the sound board on Medusa.
It's a different technology, you can't replace it with an OLED screen because it's not a Raster monitor, it's a Vector monitor. It's like trying to replace your Iphone screen with a CRT.... completely different design, technology, etc.
That is a man’s meter
Yeah!
I always put higher voltage and higher values for resistors, capacitors, Diodes, anything else I can if I have a power supply go bad.
Also the transformer, I will put in a higher wattage transformer.
I also run larger wires, I replaced an 18 gauge with a 14 gauge wire, to lessen the voltage drop.
The resistance should be the same. Wires usually have so close to zero, the biggest hurdle is the voltage drop.
The longer the distance, the less voltage at the destination.
By increasing the diameter of the wire, the loss of voltage is less.
I would put in at least a 1 watt resistor, if not a 2 watt resistor and I would put double the voltage. If the original caps were 12 volt, I would put in a 25 or even a 50 volt, if I have the space.
I wonder why they didn't do a modification where they just replaced the voltage regulator with a dumber voltage regulator that doesn't have the sense wires and terminals.
I remember swapping out a controller in a satellite receiver that looked like a 5 volt voltage regulator but when I looked at the schematic for what all was inside this little device there were 48 separate capacitors and resistors and transistors and all these parts miniaturized to fit into this one little transistor size component.
That one part cost 80% of the cost of the receiver to replace, and were it not for the receiver having encryption and being keyed to our account I would have just replaced the receiver.
Anyone remember the 40 credit tricks, I do, let me know if you want the secret, and If I can remember. LOL
I’ll bite... What’s the 40 credit trick?
Spit it out!
@@LyonsArcade From memory folk....LOL, end the game, the score needs to have a zero (0) on the last digit, then enter the first 2 characters (out of 3) of you name then wait a good long moment. P.S. I used to play that game in a arcade parlor (can't recall the name) on Ste-Catherine st. near the old forum in Montréal, Québec, Canada.
@@LyonsArcade
Apparently my memory is not that good, so I google it ;). Info below is copy and paste from the mention site
According to Joystik magazine quote in wikipedia: "After this issue was discovered, Atari corrected the problem so that further shipping machines were incapable of allowing the end score tricks. It was also noted in Joystik that Atari shipped updated chips to be replaced in the field."
www.classicarcadegaming.com/forums/index.php/topic,1193.msg15049.html#msg15049 Tempest Cheats: ArcadeHistory.com
* These are cheats (They weren't cheats at all. They were intentionally programmed in as a security measure). They were removed in ROM 217 and 222 software revision 2. First, you must complete level 8 and get a score with the format XXYYZZ: XX must be greater than 16, YY between 29 and 60, ZZ is a code listed below...
00 - freeze screen
01 - access bookkeeping totals
05 - allows playing during attract mode
06 - 40 free credits
11 - 40 free credits
12 - 40 free credits
14 - credit sound without actual credit
15 - credit sound without actual credit
16 - 40 free credits
17 - 40 free credits
18 - 40 free credits
41 - switch last 2 digits of score
42 - increase score quickly
46 - demonstration mode - start at any level, up to level 81
50 - player moves by itself
51 - player moves by itself
60 - objects drift down
66 - objects drift right
67 - objects jump
68 - objects drift up
70 - objects drift up
After code '05' (play during attract mode) is activated, the following cheats become available...
Set the last two digits to 46: Random-colored level with wrong enemies.
Set the last two digits to 48: 255 extra lives.
replace the screen, it seem be completely dead
Unfortunately they don't make them anymore
@@LyonsArcade i mean's on the .... occasion ?
Please less talk and more troubleshooting.
you think you're very intelligent, but you're making remarks on a video that's already been recorded. How could I possibly talk less, and troubleshoot more? The videos already been recorded years ago. Think how damn dumb you are.
Now ... how in the world are you supose to fill in your highscore when you p,ay blind!