DON'T burn it! It looks fairly well made and solid. I'd take a look at the underside of the top timbers and see what they look like - maybe flip them to keep the nice old wood intact. As for raising it, my initial thought would be to build a base below it that the legs fit into - maybe mortise and tenon construction to keep with the original design and not disturb the vertical members. Sounds like a fun project and I'm interested to see what you come up with.
I would suggest adding what we call in the US sled feet to raise the bench. Like on a trestle table. These are big timbers that run from each back leg to each front leg. You could use a stub tenon on the end of the feet to attach them or peg them. Also, I would not bother to raise the vises (vices?): if you add nice stout jaws of oak or beech that are even with the refurbished top, they will be fine. (I did that with a Morgan 200A rapid-action vise that I added to the end of my slab top and it works great.) I’m a retired engineer from Houston, Texas, and I just found your channel and am enjoying the content. Thank you.
Thanks Elaine, I love the sled idea - will definitely give that some thought. Also good to get an idea of how much overhang is acceptable on the vice jaws, would be a lot easier to not have to relocate them 👍
@@radboogie Came to say exactly these suggestions. A simple base will add height and the vices won’t have to be moved with new jaws that match the new top that you marry to the old one. My only additional idea is if you want to skip splicing on a new foot, you can simply add a little “booster” in the new base for that specific foot that will make it level with the rest of the legs once you cut off the rot. Elaine for the win!
Rex Kruger has a helpful series of videos about the 'english joiners bench' like you have. My dad had a wall of these in his rented workshop that he inherited from the previous tennant, i really do miss them
I'd just plain the top, as long as its flat, a few drill hole marks really won't matter. how many people have loads of bench dog holes all over the place that are much larger
I have a similar workbench which had surface issues. Don't know if woul work with yours but I removed the top planks turned them face down and reinstalled them. The underside of planks acceptable after light planing and old rough surface no longer visible. Good luck
Looks like my late dad’s old bench. Main requirements are flatness of the top and 90 deg accuracy of vice clamping surfaces to top, stiffness of the frame and comfortable working height. I’d not add another layer of wood unless it’s the same as what’s there as you could end up with warping if the humidity or heat changes in the workshop. It may need a complete strip down to ensure the joints are tight enough to make the whole thing rigid enough.
We still had these benches at my school in the early 2000s. I would just plain the tops. Probably be fine under the surface. Im not certain how the tops are joined to the leg frames but flipping them might be a hassle. I cant really think of a good way to make the legs 8" longer while keeping them sturdy. How about making a second frame or box for the bench to stand it on? The simplest would be from 8x2 timber screwed together or could use joinery if you want to be more fancy. Cheers
Thanks Peter. It looks like the tops are attached with coach bolts, so shouldn't be too hard to remove them. I agree about the legs being difficult to extend, building sled feet seems like the current favourite 👍
Sudden thought....flip over the two slabs of beech . I expect the verso is better. Hang on I just spotted the rebate. Shorten the bench to get better ends.I rally think you should keep the beech on top and put any inferior wood underneath. This , as you surmised, is identical to a school bench although only one vice per bench per child at my posh grammar school. As you can tell, I love beech. Planted about 10 chez nous in France......sadly I will never see them as big trees. On the bright side I have a mini lathe coming from China. Edit ...I just saw saw other comments. This makes me feel almost normal.
I'd start with addressing the issues in the base/legs before touching the top. There are some good suggestions in the comments for adding the height you need. I'd want a solid, stable base before trying to flatten the top. I don't think you'll need to raise the vices - just add a higher jaw liner, perhaps with a touch more "toe-in". It looks like you've still got plenty of thickness in the top and most of those holes won't affect the use even if they're still there after flattening. I think it'd be a shame to cover the top with new wood. I'm with you on tools being usable first, but I also like to see a bit of history. Also, you're the man who hand-scraped a fore plane - don't tell me you only care about practicalities! 😂 Looks like a great bench and project - I'm looking forward to seeing how you get on 👍🏻👍🏻
Great ideas, thanks for sharing. Haha, yes I do like things to look nice but I have to reign myself in so as to actually get things finished. In danger of the bench becoming "triggers broom" if I'm not careful 🤣
Sled feet as recommended. Id use a simple bridle joint i think. I'd move the lhs vice to the end (yiu look right handed) to use asvan end vice. Just glatten the top. The dimples will help with grip- dont make it super smooth. Just flat to within a few thou.
100% a school workbench. I used to work at a construction college in the midlands as a technician. The bench's were identical and students used to drill into the top, hammer nails in when they were bored. cut into it for the same reason. It was always a challenge getting them back in to a decent- ish condition
I would probably put sled feet with floating tenons to raise the legs. You could also scarph on extension to the legs but it would look pretty strange from the side I reckon. Might be worth cutting out and replacing the rotted section at the back though. Planing down the top will be immensely satisfying. I think the pitted used top surface adds to the bench's appeal, and I would avoid putting new wood on the top if it can be helped. A well worn surface invites use, while a brand new one can feel too nice to ding up.
I think the most important aspect of a woodworking bench is that it doesn't move or vibrate when you saw, plane or chisel your work. If it is truly solid, then worth saving otherwise I would use one of the vices and make a new bench from softwood. I made a Roubot style from Chris Scwarz's book using only 4x2 builders timber, and it was fairly easy to do even with the hand tools that I use. I admire your willingness to save an old dear but how much more or less work would it be to start again AND get something the size you need?
I totally agree about stability. Currently I have to do my planing work on a Black & Decker Workmate. Wobblemate would be a better name for it 😂 This bench is nice and solid so hopefully I can get it useable without too much effort.
@@radboogie BTW not sure why there are two vices on that bench, could be because they were designed for two students working together (?or smacking each other with mallets more like!). But, I have the same vice and it will easily hold a heavy door or window frame while you work on it. They are massively impressive for their size. Also, you may want to consider whether to flush mount the vice against the apron like it is now or have it standing off by an inch or so (does make it a bit easier to grab hold of work while you tighten up the vice i.e. you can get your fingers around the back without trapping them).
I reckon the right hand vice used to be on the back. "smacking each other with mallets" - did we go to the same school? 😂 Thanks for the extra info on the vice capabilities, I quite like having both vices on the front as it'll be easier to support long jobs. But am torn between having the fixed face flush or having it stand off, tending towards keeping them flush at the moment but will take what you said about grabbing the work into consideration.
I'd start by a complete disassembly. I suspect you have more rot than you realize and also that the bolted places are no longer tight. As others have said, run the beech top boards through a planer to true them up and then put whatever you like under them to get the thickness you want. For simplicity, cut all the legs off to the bottom of the cabinet and then make a set of legs with stringers between and simply set the bench on them. Use a stout dowel for the connection.
Looks like the woodworking class benches from my old school. Wanna save it? Remove the vice and plane 2-3mm off every surface until it is all back to fresh white wood. Refix any wobbly bits with new screws then coat with a preservative. Assuming of course…there is no rot going on, that would need a whole different approach and you might end up with nit a lot of original bench left!!! Oh and keep both front vices great for long heavy items like doors. Watch the cost…it could escalate beyond being economical.
Thanks Contessa, great advice. Definitely keeping the two front vices, as you say very useful for clamping long items. Talking of cost I was working on it some more today, almost decided to replace the front apron with new timber, but reminded myself that all I want is a good solid workbench and not a work of art, as you say so easy to start pouring money into these projects 👍
The particular pattern of no 52 vice you have dates from the 1940s. The end of the screw where the tommy bar goes through changed to a more cylindrical type in the 1950s. As far as bench height, it depends on the user’s height and what sort of work you plan. Preparing stock with wooden planes needs a lower bench top than finer work like hand cut dovetails. I think your plan for the top is good but be very careful of nails when you true it. I would add some height by adding a front to back timber across the left and right pairs of legs. Add feet to the ends of these by nailing some short 1” boards to each end of these. You can experiment with height by adding or removing these (you could keep them loose until you’ve got it right). A diagonal board from top left to bottom right would resist racking if you plan to do a lot of hand planing.
Richard, awesome old bench. i would look at taking the two upper sections and turning them over to (hopefully) get to some nice flat clean, undrilled faces. For adding height, you might look at picking up threaded steel pipe and flanges. you could attached the steel flange on the underside of the post and then add the pipe. you would need another flange to sit directly on the floor. you could also add a non-slip surface(rubber, cork) under the flange to keep it from sliding. you showed at least one post will need some major cutting back , so you could use a longer piece of pipe in that location.
Bring the top down with a router and a router sled. Make it nice and flattened, then add what every final skin you like. Pretty much the same with the tool well. The lower level of the bench is perfect for adding three inch or four inch casters with locks all around. That will bring it up higher and make it something you can have follow you around. Putting a sheet of plywood or several planks on the very bottom of the original legs to make a shelf, then adding the casters will give you even more height and stability. Maybe run a metal detector over the whole thing before you start using power tools on the surface. Thinking the "little ones" may have sunk a nail or broken drill bit in the surface here and there. That's all I've got off the top of my head.
Castors is an interesting idea though the bench will be backed against a wall so I wouldn't have access to lock the rear ones and it might move a bit when planing. Will definitely be running the metal detector over it, I reckon there's a few panel pins hammered in there 👍
@@radboogie I made a bench to hold a computer driven router carver. It had to be very stout. I put casters on it but built boots for the wheel area. A three sided box. When I got the bench where i needed it, I lifted the corner and slid a boot around the wheel lifting it just enough to clear contact with the floor. It is stable as anything. I kick the boots out, and we roll away. Boots back on, very stable. I understand the fear of movement if your using your plane, but my bench is as solid as if it was bolded to the floor. I understand you think the option is a gamble. Quite a bit of time and some $. Casters that size aren't inexpensive.
Due to its size it seems practical that it could be used as a secondary (Mobile) bench within the workshop, thus sizeable, locking, castors go someway to solving the height issue.
See if you can flip the top boards - the bottoms might be in better condition. Completely replace that back leg with the most rot, then cut pieces off the good part of it to use as extensions for the other legs. Oh, use a sliding dovetail to install the extensions.
First off…. Don’t burn it! I would take the vises off and refinish them back to uniform color and working condition. Then take the top off and add four inch rails under the top. Flip the original Beech tops over after you have planed them. No need to add any Redwood to them. Reattach the top pieces. Turing to the bottom, I would scab five inches to the legs to the existing legs. This will give you some wiggle room to adjust the final height. If you want drawers or an open concept, that is your choice not mine. I like an open bench concept myself… easier to keep clean. Sand entire workbench down to decent wood then apply a coat of BLO and Bob’s your uncle!
Thanks Chris, really glad no-one wants me to burn it so far 👍 Adding rails under the top is an interesting idea, will see how doable that is when I take the tops off. I'm into having an open bench too, there's usually something in the way of a cupboard opening in my shop 😂
The top is now two well dried and stable pieces of proper timber. I'd probably spend some time flattening it, after gluing a piece of whatever to the bottom of it to make up for the lost material. The vises look to be mounted fairly low so you have some wiggle room. As for the legs.. maybe cut them back to the healthy part and then build a sturdy frame of sorts that the bench sits on top of? Could put some drawers in it as well.
It's a nice little thing, I'd make a box pedestal under it with some floor crates under it for tools you don't use. For the top I'd just do it as they used to: flip the planks and flatten them, cause right now you'll probably run in some hidden nails in that surface when planing and this will save most of it (probably why they used to flip the tops once upon a time...)
Love the trestle idea, but a quick fix might be just extend the legs then sister some 3/4" pieces up onto the old legs. The feet would seem more substantial and you could add flutes or pieces of thin trim if the look is too blocky.
I agree with adding a new top over the existing, plus you gain some height, plus it will deepen the tool well. I find benches with a tool well somewhat cumbersome as invariably some tool is sticking up in the way. A nice fat dowel should suffice to secure leg extensions. You could always add pocket screws in the inner corners so they wouldn't show. I would add a few holes in your new top for a stop if not some bench dogs as well. I also enjoy reclaimed/ repurposed pieces, I've turned dressers into sink bases & mortar projectile crates into a shop cabinet. Carry on!
Take the top off and check the underside. If it’s serviceable, put it upwards. Attach leg extensions with large dowels and glue (repairing the rotten one first)
For the height: Adding to the bottom will not result in stability for lateral stresses like hand planing. I would: A) cut off a few inches from the bottom of the legs to get to healthier wood; B) Lift the top and add enough inches between the frame and top to get to your target height. For the top I would borrow or rent a power planer to bring it down to healthier wood. For extra credit, I would disassemble the entire thing and run everything through that borrowed planer. Looks like a fun project. 👍
Unfasten the two top slabs, turn them sideways as rails use those to create a base for a new top. Use a better wood than redwood which would be too soft. This will get you the height you need. I imagine that the bottom of the current top slabs are in good condition so those would face out. The new thick sides could then be drilled appropriately to reposition your vices. The void under your new top would give you ample space for an end vice.
Burn it... Never! I'd mount it on a 10" riser block, select a timber framing splice to fix the one back leg, plane the 2 top boards just enough to make them flat-ish, then turn them over so it's history still shows to those who care to look, and get out the card scrapers for the rest of the paint, then new hardwood jaws for the vices... oh and proper swing out doors where the sliders used to be.
Great to hear so much love for the bench and no-one has suggested burning it yet! You know I never think of using card scrapers, I have one somewhere but I always forget to use it. Great idea 👍
It looks fairly solid. Plane the top, reface the vices and sand the rest. A power hand plane or a fore/scrub plane will fix that. Oh and something heavy on the shelf when youve got it in place.
Plane the wooden bits clean and flat Move one vice (no point having two on side!) maybe to an end? Dog holes and sliding deadman to make the most of those vices I'd add to the tool well to make it smaller although a planing stop, but that may just suit my work!
On the top - you could always laminate on a couple of pieces to clean it up, thicken it, and bring the height up a tad! You'd had to move your vices up too.
It's not any use as a workbench, but the patina is lovely, a lot of the paint will clean off. I've cleaned up and sold several like that for shop displays for several hundred pounds a piece
I'd plane the top using a scrub plane, use an electric plane if i have to and that's it, there's plenty of thickness for another two generations of use on this one The paint on the side can be removed with a card scraper Depending on much height is missing i'd either jack it up with horizontal beams on the ground Or indeed increase the length of the legs with drawbored end grain mortise and tenon then add stretchers for winding rigidity But for 20cm i'd just add horizontal beams, add some wedge if the bench is rocking and that's it I'd replace the vise wood inserts and clean them up using a wire brush and a painter's soap or something like mineral spirits or acetone if it really doesn't get off I'd also check if every fastener are in decent shape and replace them if necessary, especially for the aprons
I would make them take the two sections of the top off and run them through a planner. Flip them over for a fresh side and reattach them after sanding down the board that goes under the two sections and creates the well. Or, find a piece that you can add to the middle between the two sections for a solid work surface. Definitely would not suggest redwood which is much too soft for this application. Plus, it is not a cheap material, at least here in the States it's not. I would try to match the species already on the top, be it maple, beech, or oak. You want a hardwood so it will last awhile, and can be resurfaced easily with a couple of passes of a hand place. This way you are not removing a lot of material each time you want a fresh top. I would strip or sand all of the rest of the bench and if you can get away with resurfacing the vice chops without taking too much off, you can reuse them. If not, again use a hardwood of some kind. Then line the faces with peel and stick cork or use some raw leather to face them with. Depending on if you plan to use dog holes or an iron hold fast, will dictate hole sizes. The one dog hole you have can easily be plugged and a few fresh round holes can be drilled in. Strip and either repaint, I wouldn't, the vises, or just put a lite coating of the proper oil on the metal and buff off. This will prevent it from rusting without having to repaint them and will look more period-correct. Definitely raise the bench up to a comfortable height or you will wreck your back and shoulders from using it at the wrong height. Best of luck!!
Thanks for the info 👍 I've had a good look at the top slabs, reckon they are probably Beech, next video is out soon perhaps you could have a look and see if you concur? Will need to make some Dutchmen to blank off old slots so would want to plug it with a similar wood.
I find it hard to imagine laminating redwood on top. Redwood is usually rather soft (almost like Cedar), and so would easily dent while dog holes would wallow out too easily. Instead, I’d clean up the existing top, then turn it over where you would likely find a better surface (even if it needed cleaning up. And given that it’s hardwood, it should be durable and last beyond your life time with reasonable care. BTW, I don’t think that’s a dog sticking up from the top. Rather it’s a planing stop. These have a somewhat tight fit to their top, so that they can be raised or lowered by mallet strokes on either their top or bottom. In so doing, they are made to secure work well without interfering with the passing of the plane. The question I’d ask is: what do you want the workbench to look like when you’re done? This should inform your remaining design decisions, along with the requirement for: 1) a sturdy stable piece, which 2) positions work at a proper height for you. BTW, knowing nothing about you I can’t comment on your preferred 38”table height. But I would note that I’m 5’11” and prefer a 34” height, FWIW. You may find that extending the legs to be a challenging method of achieving sturdy and stable, even with M&T joints. Accordingly, you might be looking at more invasive methods, either replacing the legs, or perhaps extending them using something like a halved bladed and cogged scarf joint (which offer resistance to bending across two planes at 90 deg to each other). For myself, I’d go with the replacement as the quicker and easier solution, but you might find fitting the joint more interesting. One advantage to lifting the whole bench is that the bottom of the apron is raised. This can lead to more storage space below (if thats your choice), but having reached a certain age, I enjoy the option of working from a stool and have room to fit my legs under the bench. Also, it sounds like you haven’t had a proper bench in the past. If this is a misunderstanding on my part, the following may not be worthy of consideration. I chose to eliminate the tool well from my bench, and replace it with more workspace. In my world, the well collects and retains tools, shavings, dust, scraps, papers and so on. Over time, the pile grows taller than the work surface, and interferes with the placement of larger work pieces on the bench. Your work habits, of course, determine what would be best for you, but you are working with a smallish bench as your starting point. I hope the above provide some small assistance in your plans for the bench. Good luck with your build.
If you use any kind of plane to flatten that top you’ll ruin the blade hitting all the nails etc that are surely embedded in it. Use a belt sander on both too pieces and check your progress with a straight edge. Once you get them as flat as you can, laminate hardwood on top not redwood which is soft as bread. Remove the vises, strip the paint off, repaint and lubricate then replace the wood with the same hardwood used on the top. Consider replacing the front plank they’re attached to with more hardwood. Tool well just needs a good sanding & some Danish oil, poly etc on it, the rest of the carcass needs a good sanding then some paint. Built a new base for it to accommodate the height you want.
I would start with the top… See how the top is connected to the bench frame. You’ll need to pull out the vises and remove the apron. You might want to take the top off and then build Your height on top of the frame… but that will all depend on how the top sits on the frame…. That top will need to rest on a solid surface. Maybe Build 1/2 of the height with the top rebuild and then 4X4’s across the bottom of the legs. (The short distance will do nicely - The width not the length) And then go at the top with a scrub plane and then a no5 Jack plane… or an electric planer for the rough work…. Really easy to ruin the bench with that. Some really thick plywood might support the top piece nicely…. It will just depend on how the top is attached and what it actually sits on.
You will have to make sure ALL the nails have either been removed or punched in much deeper or you will ruin your plane, personally I think it would be better to source two new timbers and replace the top altogether.
I dont understand why you would want to replace the top. I would denail it, plane it down only a couple of mm, oil it up and use it. If you want a new top just make a new bench. I would make a plinth to stand the bench onto raise the height. Perhaps a small plinth for each leg so it captures the leg and wont slip off. Pull the vices off and clean them up add new faces. Perhaps inset a new section of top just where the vices meet to get a good meeting edge. Clean the whole thing just enough to tidy it up and get the paint off.
Thanks for the suggestions 👍 Making a new bench would be a bit over the top as it's basically sound. I would prefer to have a cleaner top so flipping the uppers will probably do the job.
You can flatten and even the bottom of the legs the and a thick 125mmx125mm or 4"×4" block going from front to back. Screw into existing legs, the add a piece to the front and back under the 4x4 to raise it to desired height. You can cut those blocks on an angle to make them look nicer and less "blocky". A common type of base for older benches. You can just Google 100 year old work benches to get a better idea for the type and shape of bases. DO NOT just butt-joint blocks to the legs. This will look like crap and be much to unstable. Just my opinion.
Don’t use redwood for the top, it’s way too soft. If you can find Birch use that. An inch to two inches is good. I’d actually strip the paint off and repaint the vises. They are worth it. I’d take one and attach at back opposite corner or at the end so you could put dog holes down the length for long pieces. Use 7-8” leg extensions and attach with a bridle joint and epoxy glue.
Cheers David 👍 Will definitely get the vices repainted, have got a pot of Smoothrite blue specially for them. Mounting one of them as an end vice is a great idea, unfortunately where it's going I don't have any access to the side. But when I get a bigger shop that would be a great mod!
A few thoughts: (i) lots of thickness still on those slab tops, so perhaps just some tinted epoxy (Botal Toat flexible epoxy is great for this) to fill any significant saw kerfs and big gouges) and then just plane down to your tolerance; (ii) finger joint in some leg extensions to raise it up (TheApartmentWoodworker has a recent post on doing that with hand tools) [I think you have that idea as is, and I agree]; and (iii) as an alternative to (ii) above, add some sled feet on with floating tenons, although that would probably be pretty chunky. I would also think about replacing the front apron with something wider so you can use pegs with those nice vises.
I would probably look for a chunk of bowling alley for the top and use 2x2 or 3x3 angle with a nut plate for an adjustable feet and cap your legs with the angle, not original looking but useful.
I have a workbench with a bowling lane top & it is awesome. If you can find a piece of lane it's best not to get a piece from the first few meters of the lane as that is usually rock maple, & while very hard, is tough to cut, although it drills & takes screws well
@@radboogie mine had no nails through the top, but each slat was glued & side nailed with a hardened spiral shank nail, as well as having an iron T bar screwed in along the bottom
Check out the channel "Captain of my shed" he (Mikey) has recently restored a similar bench - highlights problems he came across too. But the two tops I would flatten but flip over so bottom is fresh top. Table the top from the base and add additional sub frame. As you are tall - Sled feet would also help. Look at the rob cosman bench has mdf as a topper/surface and sled feet. Either way - your videos are ace and very interesting. How would you flatten a cast iron table saw top? Matt
Cheers Matt, flipping the top and using sled feet are looking favourite at the moment. Will check out Captain of my shed. Flattening a cast iron table saw top? I guess it's quite large so the tricky bit would be measuring how flat it is (or isn't). Probably too big for a surface plate even if you have one. I'd use a decent steel straight edge and feeler gauges to map out the highs and lows and mark them with a sharpie. Then I'd hand scrape the high spots until I got it all withing about a thou or two. If you're not into hand scraping you could use a belt sander to knock down the high spots. If you want it really accurate you'd need to get hold of a cast iron straight edge that's longer than the table is wide, but these are expensive tools unless you intend to use one a lot. 👍
@@radboogie the vices are all i see worth saving .i see a nice clean new bench with maybe a little ebony for accents and a pair of nice new vices...or build two benches with one vice each and sell a bench to pay for the keeper
DON'T burn it! It looks fairly well made and solid. I'd take a look at the underside of the top timbers and see what they look like - maybe flip them to keep the nice old wood intact. As for raising it, my initial thought would be to build a base below it that the legs fit into - maybe mortise and tenon construction to keep with the original design and not disturb the vertical members. Sounds like a fun project and I'm interested to see what you come up with.
I knew you guys would deliver some excellent suggestions - flipping the top is a great idea - thanks 👍
Yes, turn the top over. Sand or wire brush the rest. Reface the vices and put wheels on it to raise it up.
This is just what I was thinking !
I would suggest adding what we call in the US sled feet to raise the bench. Like on a trestle table. These are big timbers that run from each back leg to each front leg. You could use a stub tenon on the end of the feet to attach them or peg them. Also, I would not bother to raise the vises (vices?): if you add nice stout jaws of oak or beech that are even with the refurbished top, they will be fine. (I did that with a Morgan 200A rapid-action vise that I added to the end of my slab top and it works great.) I’m a retired engineer from Houston, Texas, and I just found your channel and am enjoying the content. Thank you.
Thanks Elaine, I love the sled idea - will definitely give that some thought. Also good to get an idea of how much overhang is acceptable on the vice jaws, would be a lot easier to not have to relocate them 👍
@@radboogie Came to say exactly these suggestions. A simple base will add height and the vices won’t have to be moved with new jaws that match the new top that you marry to the old one. My only additional idea is if you want to skip splicing on a new foot, you can simply add a little “booster” in the new base for that specific foot that will make it level with the rest of the legs once you cut off the rot. Elaine for the win!
Rex Kruger has a helpful series of videos about the 'english joiners bench' like you have. My dad had a wall of these in his rented workshop that he inherited from the previous tennant, i really do miss them
Rex's channel is great - I learned a lot from him 👍
I'd just plain the top, as long as its flat, a few drill hole marks really won't matter. how many people have loads of bench dog holes all over the place that are much larger
Good idea, it's probably look miles better just having some of the paint planed off the top.
I believe I would raise it by adding an under frame with heavy lockable casters. And would see if i could invert the top planks.
Thanks Lynn, that sounds like a good strategy 👍
I have a similar workbench which had surface issues. Don't know if woul work with yours but I removed the top planks turned them face down and reinstalled them. The underside of planks acceptable after light planing and old rough surface no longer visible. Good luck
I'll take the boards off and have a look, they seem to be attached with coach bolts so should be an easy job 👍
Looks like my late dad’s old bench. Main requirements are flatness of the top and 90 deg accuracy of vice clamping surfaces to top, stiffness of the frame and comfortable working height. I’d not add another layer of wood unless it’s the same as what’s there as you could end up with warping if the humidity or heat changes in the workshop. It may need a complete strip down to ensure the joints are tight enough to make the whole thing rigid enough.
Thanks John, warpage was a concern when I mentioned laminating a new top onto it. Favourite so far will be to see if I can flip the tops. 👍
We still had these benches at my school in the early 2000s. I would just plain the tops. Probably be fine under the surface. Im not certain how the tops are joined to the leg frames but flipping them might be a hassle.
I cant really think of a good way to make the legs 8" longer while keeping them sturdy. How about making a second frame or box for the bench to stand it on? The simplest would be from 8x2 timber screwed together or could use joinery if you want to be more fancy.
Cheers
Thanks Peter. It looks like the tops are attached with coach bolts, so shouldn't be too hard to remove them. I agree about the legs being difficult to extend, building sled feet seems like the current favourite 👍
Sudden thought....flip over the two slabs of beech . I expect the verso is better. Hang on I just spotted the rebate. Shorten the bench to get better ends.I rally think you should keep the beech on top and put any inferior wood underneath. This , as you surmised, is identical to a school bench although only one vice per bench per child at my posh grammar school. As you can tell, I love beech. Planted about 10 chez nous in France......sadly I will never see them as big trees. On the bright side I have a mini lathe coming from China. Edit ...I just saw saw other comments. This makes me feel almost normal.
Flipping the top - great idea 👍 Good luck with the mini lathe!
I'd start with addressing the issues in the base/legs before touching the top. There are some good suggestions in the comments for adding the height you need. I'd want a solid, stable base before trying to flatten the top.
I don't think you'll need to raise the vices - just add a higher jaw liner, perhaps with a touch more "toe-in".
It looks like you've still got plenty of thickness in the top and most of those holes won't affect the use even if they're still there after flattening. I think it'd be a shame to cover the top with new wood. I'm with you on tools being usable first, but I also like to see a bit of history. Also, you're the man who hand-scraped a fore plane - don't tell me you only care about practicalities! 😂
Looks like a great bench and project - I'm looking forward to seeing how you get on 👍🏻👍🏻
Great ideas, thanks for sharing. Haha, yes I do like things to look nice but I have to reign myself in so as to actually get things finished. In danger of the bench becoming "triggers broom" if I'm not careful 🤣
Sled feet as recommended. Id use a simple bridle joint i think. I'd move the lhs vice to the end (yiu look right handed) to use asvan end vice. Just glatten the top. The dimples will help with grip- dont make it super smooth. Just flat to within a few thou.
100% a school workbench. I used to work at a construction college in the midlands as a technician. The bench's were identical and students used to drill into the top, hammer nails in when they were bored. cut into it for the same reason.
It was always a challenge getting them back in to a decent- ish condition
Thanks, this one has definitely had a hard life 👍
In the US, we would use Southern Yellow Pine to face the top. Sturdy, stable, not too soft and rigid.
I would probably put sled feet with floating tenons to raise the legs. You could also scarph on extension to the legs but it would look pretty strange from the side I reckon. Might be worth cutting out and replacing the rotted section at the back though.
Planing down the top will be immensely satisfying. I think the pitted used top surface adds to the bench's appeal, and I would avoid putting new wood on the top if it can be helped. A well worn surface invites use, while a brand new one can feel too nice to ding up.
to raise it i would perhaps cut the rot off and half lap a extension on since its already to a bolt on you could reuse that bolt.
I think the most important aspect of a woodworking bench is that it doesn't move or vibrate when you saw, plane or chisel your work. If it is truly solid, then worth saving otherwise I would use one of the vices and make a new bench from softwood. I made a Roubot style from Chris Scwarz's book using only 4x2 builders timber, and it was fairly easy to do even with the hand tools that I use. I admire your willingness to save an old dear but how much more or less work would it be to start again AND get something the size you need?
I totally agree about stability. Currently I have to do my planing work on a Black & Decker Workmate. Wobblemate would be a better name for it 😂 This bench is nice and solid so hopefully I can get it useable without too much effort.
@@radboogie BTW not sure why there are two vices on that bench, could be because they were designed for two students working together (?or smacking each other with mallets more like!). But, I have the same vice and it will easily hold a heavy door or window frame while you work on it. They are massively impressive for their size. Also, you may want to consider whether to flush mount the vice against the apron like it is now or have it standing off by an inch or so (does make it a bit easier to grab hold of work while you tighten up the vice i.e. you can get your fingers around the back without trapping them).
I reckon the right hand vice used to be on the back. "smacking each other with mallets" - did we go to the same school? 😂
Thanks for the extra info on the vice capabilities, I quite like having both vices on the front as it'll be easier to support long jobs. But am torn between having the fixed face flush or having it stand off, tending towards keeping them flush at the moment but will take what you said about grabbing the work into consideration.
I'd start by a complete disassembly. I suspect you have more rot than you realize and also that the bolted places are no longer tight. As others have said, run the beech top boards through a planer to true them up and then put whatever you like under them to get the thickness you want. For simplicity, cut all the legs off to the bottom of the cabinet and then make a set of legs with stringers between and simply set the bench on them. Use a stout dowel for the connection.
Thanks Mark 👍
What a find! I would love to have that bench. Flip the top, splice on some legs to raise it up.
Thanks, good suggestions 👍
Looks like the woodworking class benches from my old school. Wanna save it? Remove the vice and plane 2-3mm off every surface until it is all back to fresh white wood. Refix any wobbly bits with new screws then coat with a preservative. Assuming of course…there is no rot going on, that would need a whole different approach and you might end up with nit a lot of original bench left!!! Oh and keep both front vices great for long heavy items like doors. Watch the cost…it could escalate beyond being economical.
Thanks Contessa, great advice. Definitely keeping the two front vices, as you say very useful for clamping long items. Talking of cost I was working on it some more today, almost decided to replace the front apron with new timber, but reminded myself that all I want is a good solid workbench and not a work of art, as you say so easy to start pouring money into these projects 👍
The particular pattern of no 52 vice you have dates from the 1940s. The end of the screw where the tommy bar goes through changed to a more cylindrical type in the 1950s. As far as bench height, it depends on the user’s height and what sort of work you plan. Preparing stock with wooden planes needs a lower bench top than finer work like hand cut dovetails. I think your plan for the top is good but be very careful of nails when you true it. I would add some height by adding a front to back timber across the left and right pairs of legs. Add feet to the ends of these by nailing some short 1” boards to each end of these. You can experiment with height by adding or removing these (you could keep them loose until you’ve got it right). A diagonal board from top left to bottom right would resist racking if you plan to do a lot of hand planing.
Thanks for the info Richard 👍
Richard, awesome old bench. i would look at taking the two upper sections and turning them over to (hopefully) get to some nice flat clean, undrilled faces. For adding height, you might look at picking up threaded steel pipe and flanges. you could attached the steel flange on the underside of the post and then add the pipe. you would need another flange to sit directly on the floor. you could also add a non-slip surface(rubber, cork) under the flange to keep it from sliding. you showed at least one post will need some major cutting back , so you could use a longer piece of pipe in that location.
Thanks Jim, definitely interested to see what the uppers are like underneath. Great suggestions 👍
Bring the top down with a router and a router sled. Make it nice and flattened, then add what every final skin you like. Pretty much the same with the tool well. The lower level of the bench is perfect for adding three inch or four inch casters with locks all around. That will bring it up higher and make it something you can have follow you around. Putting a sheet of plywood or several planks on the very bottom of the original legs to make a shelf, then adding the casters will give you even more height and stability. Maybe run a metal detector over the whole thing before you start using power tools on the surface. Thinking the "little ones" may have sunk a nail or broken drill bit in the surface here and there.
That's all I've got off the top of my head.
Castors is an interesting idea though the bench will be backed against a wall so I wouldn't have access to lock the rear ones and it might move a bit when planing. Will definitely be running the metal detector over it, I reckon there's a few panel pins hammered in there 👍
@@radboogie I made a bench to hold a computer driven router carver. It had to be very stout. I put casters on it but built boots for the wheel area. A three sided box. When I got the bench where i needed it, I lifted the corner and slid a boot around the wheel lifting it just enough to clear contact with the floor. It is stable as anything. I kick the boots out, and we roll away. Boots back on, very stable. I understand the fear of movement if your using your plane, but my bench is as solid as if it was bolded to the floor.
I understand you think the option is a gamble. Quite a bit of time and some $. Casters that size aren't inexpensive.
Due to its size it seems practical that it could be used as a secondary (Mobile) bench within the workshop, thus sizeable, locking, castors go someway to solving the height issue.
That'd be a good use for it. My shop doesn't have the space for that unfortunately, but these ex-school benches are a really compact size.
Looks like an old school bench as you say …..everything fits to that purpose….just like the ones we used to use in the seventies
See if you can flip the top boards - the bottoms might be in better condition. Completely replace that back leg with the most rot, then cut pieces off the good part of it to use as extensions for the other legs. Oh, use a sliding dovetail to install the extensions.
Sliding dovetail is a nice idea 👍
First off…. Don’t burn it! I would take the vises off and refinish them back to uniform color and working condition.
Then take the top off and add four inch rails under the top. Flip the original Beech tops over after you have planed them. No need to add any Redwood to them. Reattach the top pieces. Turing to the bottom, I would scab five inches to the legs to the existing legs. This will give you some wiggle room to adjust the final height. If you want drawers or an open concept, that is your choice not mine. I like an open bench concept myself… easier to keep clean. Sand entire workbench down to decent wood then apply a coat of BLO and Bob’s your uncle!
Thanks Chris, really glad no-one wants me to burn it so far 👍 Adding rails under the top is an interesting idea, will see how doable that is when I take the tops off. I'm into having an open bench too, there's usually something in the way of a cupboard opening in my shop 😂
The top is now two well dried and stable pieces of proper timber. I'd probably spend some time flattening it, after gluing a piece of whatever to the bottom of it to make up for the lost material. The vises look to be mounted fairly low so you have some wiggle room.
As for the legs.. maybe cut them back to the healthy part and then build a sturdy frame of sorts that the bench sits on top of? Could put some drawers in it as well.
Thanks. Interesting idea packing the tops from below to regain height 👍
any chance you could take the top boards off and turn them over?
That's why I love the comments section, I wouldn't have thought of that. Cheers 👍
It's a nice little thing, I'd make a box pedestal under it with some floor crates under it for tools you don't use.
For the top I'd just do it as they used to: flip the planks and flatten them, cause right now you'll probably run in some hidden nails in that surface when planing and this will save most of it (probably why they used to flip the tops once upon a time...)
Thanks Bruno, will definitely have a look at flipping the top.
Love the trestle idea, but a quick fix might be just extend the legs then sister some 3/4" pieces up onto the old legs. The feet would seem more substantial and you could add flutes or pieces of thin trim if the look is too blocky.
Thanks Tim, nice idea 👍
I agree with adding a new top over the existing, plus you gain some height, plus it will deepen the tool well. I find benches with a tool well somewhat cumbersome as invariably some tool is sticking up in the way. A nice fat dowel should suffice to secure leg extensions. You could always add pocket screws in the inner corners so they wouldn't show. I would add a few holes in your new top for a stop if not some bench dogs as well. I also enjoy reclaimed/ repurposed pieces, I've turned dressers into sink bases & mortar projectile crates into a shop cabinet. Carry on!
Thanks for the suggestions! Deepening the tool well is a good idea, also using dowels for leg extensions. 👍
Take the top off and check the underside. If it’s serviceable, put it upwards. Attach leg extensions with large dowels and glue (repairing the rotten one first)
For the height: Adding to the bottom will not result in stability for lateral stresses like hand planing. I would: A) cut off a few inches from the bottom of the legs to get to healthier wood; B) Lift the top and add enough inches between the frame and top to get to your target height.
For the top I would borrow or rent a power planer to bring it down to healthier wood.
For extra credit, I would disassemble the entire thing and run everything through that borrowed planer.
Looks like a fun project. 👍
Nice idea, hadn't thought of that. It would definitely be nice to plane all of the timbers, will have to see if I strip it down that far 👍
Unfasten the two top slabs, turn them sideways as rails use those to create a base for a new top. Use a better wood than redwood which would be too soft. This will get you the height you need. I imagine that the bottom of the current top slabs are in good condition so those would face out. The new thick sides could then be drilled appropriately to reposition your vices. The void under your new top would give you ample space for an end vice.
Thanks for the suggestions, will be interesting to see what the boards are like underneath 👍
Burn it... Never! I'd mount it on a 10" riser block, select a timber framing splice to fix the one back leg, plane the 2 top boards just enough to make them flat-ish, then turn them over so it's history still shows to those who care to look, and get out the card scrapers for the rest of the paint, then new hardwood jaws for the vices... oh and proper swing out doors where the sliders used to be.
Great to hear so much love for the bench and no-one has suggested burning it yet! You know I never think of using card scrapers, I have one somewhere but I always forget to use it. Great idea 👍
It looks fairly solid. Plane the top, reface the vices and sand the rest. A power hand plane or a fore/scrub plane will fix that. Oh and something heavy on the shelf when youve got it in place.
Thanks. Good idea about the "ballast"! 👍
Plane the wooden bits clean and flat
Move one vice (no point having two on side!) maybe to an end?
Dog holes and sliding deadman to make the most of those vices
I'd add to the tool well to make it smaller although a planing stop, but that may just suit my work!
On the top - you could always laminate on a couple of pieces to clean it up, thicken it, and bring the height up a tad! You'd had to move your vices up too.
Sigh, comment half way through the video and then finish to find you've already said what I had to add!
Thanks for the ideas Edward - much appreciated 👍
It's not any use as a workbench, but the patina is lovely, a lot of the paint will clean off. I've cleaned up and sold several like that for shop displays for several hundred pounds a piece
Hold my tea! 🤣
I'd plane the top using a scrub plane, use an electric plane if i have to and that's it, there's plenty of thickness for another two generations of use on this one
The paint on the side can be removed with a card scraper
Depending on much height is missing i'd either jack it up with horizontal beams on the ground
Or indeed increase the length of the legs with drawbored end grain mortise and tenon then add stretchers for winding rigidity
But for 20cm i'd just add horizontal beams, add some wedge if the bench is rocking and that's it
I'd replace the vise wood inserts and clean them up using a wire brush and a painter's soap or something like mineral spirits or acetone if it really doesn't get off
I'd also check if every fastener are in decent shape and replace them if necessary, especially for the aprons
Thanks for the ideas. Horizontal beams would work - definitely thinking along those lines. 👍
I would make them take the two sections of the top off and run them through a planner. Flip them over for a fresh side and reattach them after sanding down the board that goes under the two sections and creates the well. Or, find a piece that you can add to the middle between the two sections for a solid work surface. Definitely would not suggest redwood which is much too soft for this application. Plus, it is not a cheap material, at least here in the States it's not. I would try to match the species already on the top, be it maple, beech, or oak. You want a hardwood so it will last awhile, and can be resurfaced easily with a couple of passes of a hand place. This way you are not removing a lot of material each time you want a fresh top. I would strip or sand all of the rest of the bench and if you can get away with resurfacing the vice chops without taking too much off, you can reuse them. If not, again use a hardwood of some kind. Then line the faces with peel and stick cork or use some raw leather to face them with. Depending on if you plan to use dog holes or an iron hold fast, will dictate hole sizes. The one dog hole you have can easily be plugged and a few fresh round holes can be drilled in. Strip and either repaint, I wouldn't, the vises, or just put a lite coating of the proper oil on the metal and buff off. This will prevent it from rusting without having to repaint them and will look more period-correct. Definitely raise the bench up to a comfortable height or you will wreck your back and shoulders from using it at the wrong height. Best of luck!!
Thanks for the info 👍 I've had a good look at the top slabs, reckon they are probably Beech, next video is out soon perhaps you could have a look and see if you concur? Will need to make some Dutchmen to blank off old slots so would want to plug it with a similar wood.
I find it hard to imagine laminating redwood on top. Redwood is usually rather soft (almost like Cedar), and so would easily dent while dog holes would wallow out too easily. Instead, I’d clean up the existing top, then turn it over where you would likely find a better surface (even if it needed cleaning up. And given that it’s hardwood, it should be durable and last beyond your life time with reasonable care. BTW, I don’t think that’s a dog sticking up from the top. Rather it’s a planing stop. These have a somewhat tight fit to their top, so that they can be raised or lowered by mallet strokes on either their top or bottom. In so doing, they are made to secure work well without interfering with the passing of the plane.
The question I’d ask is: what do you want the workbench to look like when you’re done? This should inform your remaining design decisions, along with the requirement for: 1) a sturdy stable piece, which 2) positions work at a proper height for you. BTW, knowing nothing about you I can’t comment on your preferred 38”table height. But I would note that I’m 5’11” and prefer a 34” height, FWIW.
You may find that extending the legs to be a challenging method of achieving sturdy and stable, even with M&T joints. Accordingly, you might be looking at more invasive methods, either replacing the legs, or perhaps extending them using something like a halved bladed and cogged scarf joint (which offer resistance to bending across two planes at 90 deg to each other). For myself, I’d go with the replacement as the quicker and easier solution, but you might find fitting the joint more interesting.
One advantage to lifting the whole bench is that the bottom of the apron is raised. This can lead to more storage space below (if thats your choice), but having reached a certain age, I enjoy the option of working from a stool and have room to fit my legs under the bench.
Also, it sounds like you haven’t had a proper bench in the past. If this is a misunderstanding on my part, the following may not be worthy of consideration. I chose to eliminate the tool well from my bench, and replace it with more workspace. In my world, the well collects and retains tools, shavings, dust, scraps, papers and so on. Over time, the pile grows taller than the work surface, and interferes with the placement of larger work pieces on the bench. Your work habits, of course, determine what would be best for you, but you are working with a smallish bench as your starting point.
I hope the above provide some small assistance in your plans for the bench. Good luck with your build.
Thanks for the detailed info Richard 👍
If you use any kind of plane to flatten that top you’ll ruin the blade hitting all the nails etc that are surely embedded in it. Use a belt sander on both too pieces and check your progress with a straight edge. Once you get them as flat as you can, laminate hardwood on top not redwood which is soft as bread. Remove the vises, strip the paint off, repaint and lubricate then replace the wood with the same hardwood used on the top. Consider replacing the front plank they’re attached to with more hardwood. Tool well just needs a good sanding & some Danish oil, poly etc on it, the rest of the carcass needs a good sanding then some paint. Built a new base for it to accommodate the height you want.
Thanks, yes I reckon the top will be panel pin City! 👍
You could take the top boards off and flip them over for a clean surface.
Good plan John, thanks 👍
I would start with the top… See how the top is connected to the bench frame.
You’ll need to pull out the vises and remove the apron.
You might want to take the top off and then build Your height on top of the frame… but that will all depend on how the top sits on the frame…. That top will need to rest on a solid surface.
Maybe Build 1/2 of the height with the top rebuild and then 4X4’s across the bottom of the legs. (The short distance will do nicely - The width not the length)
And then go at the top with a scrub plane and then a no5 Jack plane… or an electric planer for the rough work…. Really easy to ruin the bench with that.
Some really thick plywood might support the top piece nicely…. It will just depend on how the top is attached and what it actually sits on.
It looks like the top is fastened with coach bolts which will make life easier. Will get the top off and see how it looks.
Flip those top sections!
You will have to make sure ALL the nails have either been removed or punched in much deeper or you will ruin your plane, personally I think it would be better to source two new timbers and replace the top altogether.
I ran a metal detector over it in the second video, yep full of nails.
@@radboogie I look forward to watching it when it comes out 😃
4" belt sander, 8x4 sled feet
Never cared for tool wells. Single height top is just more useful. Skinned with softwood is a fine idea.
Thanks Mike 👍
Knock of the ply sides and give the base a vibrant paint color.
I dont understand why you would want to replace the top. I would denail it, plane it down only a couple of mm, oil it up and use it. If you want a new top just make a new bench. I would make a plinth to stand the bench onto raise the height. Perhaps a small plinth for each leg so it captures the leg and wont slip off. Pull the vices off and clean them up add new faces. Perhaps inset a new section of top just where the vices meet to get a good meeting edge. Clean the whole thing just enough to tidy it up and get the paint off.
Thanks for the suggestions 👍 Making a new bench would be a bit over the top as it's basically sound. I would prefer to have a cleaner top so flipping the uppers will probably do the job.
You can flatten and even the bottom of the legs the and a thick 125mmx125mm or 4"×4" block going from front to back. Screw into existing legs, the add a piece to the front and back under the 4x4 to raise it to desired height. You can cut those blocks on an angle to make them look nicer and less "blocky". A common type of base for older benches. You can just Google 100 year old work benches to get a better idea for the type and shape of bases. DO NOT just butt-joint blocks to the legs. This will look like crap and be much to unstable. Just my opinion.
Number one task, cleaning.
Don’t use redwood for the top, it’s way too soft. If you can find Birch use that. An inch to two inches is good. I’d actually strip the paint off and repaint the vises. They are worth it. I’d take one and attach at back opposite corner or at the end so you could put dog holes down the length for long pieces. Use 7-8” leg extensions and attach with a bridle joint and epoxy glue.
Cheers David 👍 Will definitely get the vices repainted, have got a pot of Smoothrite blue specially for them. Mounting one of them as an end vice is a great idea, unfortunately where it's going I don't have any access to the side. But when I get a bigger shop that would be a great mod!
@@radboogie I meant Beech when I left you a comment. Don’t even think of birch.
@@davidt8438 haha, thanks for the correction 👍
A few thoughts: (i) lots of thickness still on those slab tops, so perhaps just some tinted epoxy (Botal Toat flexible epoxy is great for this) to fill any significant saw kerfs and big gouges) and then just plane down to your tolerance; (ii) finger joint in some leg extensions to raise it up (TheApartmentWoodworker has a recent post on doing that with hand tools) [I think you have that idea as is, and I agree]; and (iii) as an alternative to (ii) above, add some sled feet on with floating tenons, although that would probably be pretty chunky. I would also think about replacing the front apron with something wider so you can use pegs with those nice vises.
Thanks for your ideas James, I've got some 5" x 5" x 8' timbers so sled feet could be a good solution.
I would probably look for a chunk of bowling alley for the top and use 2x2 or 3x3 angle with a nut plate for an adjustable feet and cap your legs with the angle, not original looking but useful.
Thanks for the idea Cress 👍
I have a workbench with a bowling lane top & it is awesome. If you can find a piece of lane it's best not to get a piece from the first few meters of the lane as that is usually rock maple, & while very hard, is tough to cut, although it drills & takes screws well
@@ChrisChandler-y4g sounds good. I have heard that bowling alley sections are full of tiny nails, did you have a problem with that?
@@radboogie mine had no nails through the top, but each slat was glued & side nailed with a hardened spiral shank nail, as well as having an iron T bar screwed in along the bottom
No burning! Add wheels when you lengthen the legs.
Old school work bench whare young lads were taught woodworking
It'd be nice to think some of the youngsters that stuck a chisel into the surface of this old workbench went on to careers in woodworking 👍
Restore one of the vices and you'll get your money back from what you paid for the bench to reinvest into refurbishing it
Good call, those old vices certainly hold their prices 👍
Check out the channel "Captain of my shed" he (Mikey) has recently restored a similar bench - highlights problems he came across too. But the two tops I would flatten but flip over so bottom is fresh top. Table the top from the base and add additional sub frame. As you are tall - Sled feet would also help. Look at the rob cosman bench has mdf as a topper/surface and sled feet.
Either way - your videos are ace and very interesting. How would you flatten a cast iron table saw top?
Matt
Cheers Matt, flipping the top and using sled feet are looking favourite at the moment. Will check out Captain of my shed.
Flattening a cast iron table saw top? I guess it's quite large so the tricky bit would be measuring how flat it is (or isn't). Probably too big for a surface plate even if you have one. I'd use a decent steel straight edge and feeler gauges to map out the highs and lows and mark them with a sharpie. Then I'd hand scrape the high spots until I got it all withing about a thou or two. If you're not into hand scraping you could use a belt sander to knock down the high spots. If you want it really accurate you'd need to get hold of a cast iron straight edge that's longer than the table is wide, but these are expensive tools unless you intend to use one a lot. 👍
At the local dump
save the vices burn the firewood
Lol, first vote for burning it 😂
@@radboogie the vices are all i see worth saving .i see a nice clean new bench with maybe a little ebony for accents and a pair of nice new vices...or build two benches with one vice each and sell a bench to pay for the keeper