Critiquing Fr. Martin’s LGBT Website
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- Опубликовано: 8 ноя 2022
- In this episode, Trent examines two articles at Outreach, a website endorsed by Fr. James Martin that claims to provide resources to support LGBTQ Catholics but actually has resources that undermine the Catholic faith.
I wrote to the site when I saw that they posted an article about “gay” saints including St. John, Joan of Arc, etc. They suggested St. John and our Lord had a homosexual relationship.
They told me they were reviewing the article, but I saw it was never taken down.
Absolutely blasphemous and honestly upsetting. I do wish the Church would shut this enterprise down.
Sick
Which would turn Christ into predator since John was a teen. Blasphemy.
@@archimandritegregory7730 considering how often it happens when dealing with the rainbow group, I highly doubt it was an accident. 3=33 when dealing with that group.
Self seekers
@@archimandritegregory7730 How old was St. John?
Can't listen to anything concerning father Martin. May his days be peaceful, full of love and less stupid.
And quiet. Very quiet.
😂
He’s a manifest heretic who should have been excommunicated a long time ago.
How about sackcloth and ashes. He’s leading souls to hell.
I’m completely dumbfounded by this….how is this website even allowed to exist under a Catholic umbrella when it allows that type of obviously incorrect opinions on it?? This is gonna lead many astray ☹️ Very sad to see this on a ‘Catholic’ site. 😢
The largest Catholic universities in the U.S. & probably worldwide - are Jesuit universities where this sort of thing happens all the time. Presidents Biden, Obama, Clinton and Nancy Pelosi all Jesuit educated and the so-called Catholic ones attend Jesuit parishes. Pope Francis is a Jesuit. Again & unfortunately this happens all the time. 👎🏼
Father Martin should be condemned for promoting heresy. His efforts to change church doctrine is scandalous and leading same sex attracted people astray. Pray for his conversion. We all need to repent and return to God! Lord have Mercy on us!
As usual, Trent Horn has done a good job of offering a charitable critique, intelligent and faithful. I haven't read anything by Fr. JM, but this video makes good sense.
Perhaps then you could watch some fellow Jesuits influencers right here on YT, they're but one click away, like the one who learned Lakota better to take part in sweat lodge rituals, giddy with this own accomplishment, the ones that write scurrilous fanfic about the most holy and then, preach sistaah! and then quote Stonewall quoting Protestant Bishop Spong, line for line, for their justification.
I mean l'm just an ignorant sinner, but l do my due diligence within my limited capacity, you are highly trained and have a higher calling ...
@@veronica_._._._ Doesn't sound like those RUclips videos are for me. Why do you watch them?
@@FrJohnBrownSJ To understand, as it's about a balance in life, Just the same as l skim and scan formal texts before l settle down to read.
Obviously this comes 1st Matt:26: 40 - 41 ... Watch and pray ...
and then l watch catholic channels online and pray, l see a suggestion "The 2 communions" which is a sober title that wouldn't normally lead one to believe that if you randomly sampled a few points you would hear an enthusiastic endorsement of "Great White Spirit" ceremonies, but this is how we live and learn, by being prayerfully open to experience and diverse points of view. And being a faithful watcher. By keeping the lamps lit and the wicks trimmed.
Fascinating how you are trained to dialogue btw.
Dear@@veronica_._._._, bless you. I am glad you are praying for those who are stepping into dangerous areas for the sake of the Gospel -- that the Lord Jesus be preached everywhere
@@veronica_._._._ I'm a little lost as to what you are referring to. I've never heard of the 2 communions or the great white spirit. In any case, I'm more inclined to starve evil spirits than to engage with them if they are outside of my personal field of view.
The term LGBT isn’t catholic. It’s SSA.
@@aahlstrom93 I prefer to define myself as former SSA but you’re free to call the sin with the proper Biblical definition. Just be kind to those who repented and converted. There are already many people hating us, most of our former friends.
Not all members of the Lgbtqa+ are gay some are bi attracted to both some have a different gender identity to the he norm and some are on the asexual and aromantic spectrum.
@@lorenzolozzigallo2589 Has your attraction ceased, or have you merely achieved self-control in that matter?
It’s worse to dance around heresy without speaking “formal heresy” by undermining the faith and her teachings than just coming out with straight up heresy. If people like him came out with straight up heresy people would automatically know. Dancing around it like Martin does slowly leads people astray or ropes people into it. The bishops need to censure him, or better yet, excommunicate him. This is evil stuff.
That's a great point. I'd imagine if the devil was physically able to walk the earth he wouldn't present himself as an outright heretic. He'd likely dance around truths and be more of a false prophet.
It's far less severe, but it is worse in a way, certainly it may lead astray those who would never consider following a defrocked priest
"Evil takes advantage of ambiguity"
- G.K. Chesterton
@@mad_marc2757 Love that quote! Chesterton is the man.
@@mad_marc2757 In L’Osservatore Romano (April 12, 2013), Cardinal Walter Kasper admitted that ambiguities were deliberately inserted into Vatican II documents.
Trent, you definitely a great gift to the Catholic Church. God bless you and your family.
Janet from Ghana
Fr James Martin serves himself, not God.
He’s Catholic and is required to give his religious assent to its teaching. The fact that he teaches in opposition to the church makes him apostate. He should be corrected directly by the pope and if he does not correct his teaching and repent for those he’s lead astray then he should be excommunicated.
@@mikazoftstrom2343 Francis supports Martin.
@@littlerock5256 obviously. I’m saying this is what the pope should do not what I think he will do.
@@mikazoftstrom2343 "The fact that he teaches in opposition to the church makes him apostate." This describes Francis as well.
@@littlerock5256 once Francis is dead, it will be ascertained. If we stick to the Bible and the patristics, we should be fine.
Trent, I watched the Matt Walsh and Joe Rogan discussion about trans ideology yesterday and the talk shifted into gay marriage under US law and condemnations of it through reason and the natural law aside from Faith and religion. If you find the time could you do an analysis of that portion? Thanks.
PwA did one, might interest you
@@c_xela yea I saw but Matt just said RUclips took it down already lol
bump
Yes
@@nathanhays1866 he restarted the live stream on Rumble. Go subscribe over there.
I am sicken that FR Martin has chosen St Joseph as the Patron of Outreach. The Prayer to St Joseph ask St Joseph to interceded for impure and grave sin. I will not share this prayer because I was physically sickened when I read it.
Avoid that "priest" like the plague
Trent are you able to have the Superior of James Martin on the show and ask him directly about this. It's scandalous what they are writing about Saints and people believe it because he's a priest who has never been counselled.
There is something sinister here. James Martin is not the only one, here in Brazil we have basically the same problem with Julio Lancelotti, the "red priest", for his support of socialist politicians, LGBTQ+ theology and ideology and his critique of traditional catholics. Never once he was censored by our Bishop, while Father Quevedo, a genius and very good Jesuit priest was censored for banalities, the same thing happened with Father Paulo Ricardo, excellent professor and apologist who was censored for speaking the truth.
Not only that, we have priests and BISHOPS who are openly disciples of Leonardo Boff, the Liberation Theology professor and theologist who was censored by Pope Benedict XVI.
We need to pray more for the church
You're on a roll Trent! Thanks for addressing these tough issues.
just met 2 students from Liberty University at my parish who are in RCIA and they are very well acquainted with your work and alot of Catholic RUclips. Keep it up its really working. They especially liked your debate with James White.
Pray and do penance for our priests, so that God will grant them His grace. When a priest falls, we should extend him a helping hand through prayer 🙏
He has to repent.
@@kzbaby2002 yes of course.
Let us pray and do penance (fast, works of mercy, voluntary self-denial, etc) for that intention
@@clara.dewi_widya I’m very busy doing all that for my daughter. I’ll pass on JM. I do pray for the priests I know personally and I pray generally for all of them. But JM doesn’t occupy my mind at all. Uncharitable? Maybe.
@@kzbaby2002 if Father JM repented, he will save many souls 🙏
Remember, those bigoted trads need to be silenced by the Vatican, but Martin here needs to be dealt with using nuance and niceties.
People so stupid that they deny dinosaurs existed because of how they read Genesis 1 do more harm to the public image of the church than this guy.
Unfortunately, I doubt Pope Francis will say anything until Fr. Martin starts saying TLMs.
@@tafazzi-on-discord They hate us because the j*wish media tells them to. Christians can say anything and it will be spun in a negative light, it's the world we live in since the world wars.
Trads don't make it easy to be sympathetic with their cause and I lean trad myself.
@@atrifle8364 I think you’re putting the cart before the horse. Trads have been slandered and dare I say persecuted at all levels of the church, and the laity seems to have no problem doing the same. Trads have legitimate grievances. Even here, you seem to have no problem lumping millions of God-loving Catholics into one box. I think the people criticizing trads need to look in the mirror, because far too many seem to feel as if they have permission to say whatever they want about trads regardless of the truth.
Kinda weird to think about one day marrying my 53rd cousin. Thanks for the reminder, Trent! 😅😂
Why this Priest gets to place this website up is beyond me. Where’s Church discipline?
Thank you for another excellent video on the dangers of Fr Martin's errors. You are my go to source for when people ask what the big deal is with Fr Martin, and I appreciate you continuing to point out how his stuff can lead people into dangerous areas of unrepentant mortal sin. We are called to love people with same-sex attraction, and help them repent of any sins, and move forward with living a life of chastity, just like any other unmarried man or woman.
What undermines the Faith?
When the Pope elevates and honors folks like this.
Love those on the fringes absolutely, participate in the lie, absolutely not.
I have truly learned so much from Trent Horn, thank you so much Trent for all that you do 💗
I’ve been waiting for this!!
I have been waiting for one like this for quite some time. Finally!
Thank you for your work, Mr. Horn!
You do such a good and necessary job, Trent.
🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
…and now Fr Martin is chosen to participate and “vote” in the Synod of Synodality.
Because the Bible records certain events ie the patriarchs having more than one wife that doesn't mean it gives approval. It's just a record of the facts. I love how God doesn't sugarcoat anything even with the patriarchs and the sin of King David. We can trust God to the fullest. He is honest and he is good all the time. Praise be to the God of all creation who saved sinners through faith in the blood of Christ who carried our sins to the cross. And remember his last statement was"It is finished".
He's conflating the historical use of "natural" with the contemporary definition 🤡
They rely on that error.
Oh no!! He now has a website?🤦🏽♀️
How could "an abomination" be reserved to just one people for one time??🤔
That's an excellent point
It’s honestly beyond me how people justify degeneracy? I get sexual temptation. I get wanting to fulfill your appetite and desires. But I don’t get how anyone cannot see the logical reasoning behind sexual morality and it belongs inside a marriage between a man and a woman only. I don’t even think you need to be religious to understand that. Just knowing the purpose of sex is procreation, the logical conclusion is that 2 parents in a monogamous relationship is the best thing for any child.
@@ReverendDr.Thomas the sin of presumption is to presume one is destined to heaven (the logical conclusion of such presumption being the self-indulgence to commit this or that error). Looking at nature, that genitals do fit together and produce children (and do also bond the persons equipped with them) and reasoning forth that sexual intercourse outside of marriage is in error, is in no way presumptuous, no. Your addition of "slave" as a pejorative in no way strengthens your position, either; if anything it weakens it because the hiding of weak logic behind forceful rhetoric betrays your own insecurity, "reverend doctor".
I bought into it for years I can tell you how folks believe it: (1) It's a sorta wishful orientation of a worldview, people don't want to think that certain things are wrong (nor do they want to condemn the actions of those around them) and hence they will jump through hoops to justify these things, this wanting of a certain ethic can blind people to the unsoundness of their thinking or even their general moral intuition, I certainly made some ridiculous leaps in logic to uphold immorality. (2) Connected to that is the culture, the secular sexual ethic is so commonly ingrained in our heads from childhood that the traditional ethic strikes people as utterly absurd. This cultural influence is often somewhat subliminal.
That's my explanation for how folks today believe this stuff so easily from having lived in that world.
I think you absolutely need to be religious to take your position. The consensual sexual act is amoral and i’d argue that two people taking care of each other, whether gay or straight, is moral behavior. And what makes sex inherently better within marriage is beyond me. Why? It’s about the relationship people have with each other, and not whether they are married or not. M
@@vaskaventi6840 please explain to me the moral dimension of the sexual act between two consenting adults?
@@maxmaximus2608 there’s nothing religious about the fact that sex produces a child. There’s also nothing religious about the fact that life begins at conception. There’s also nothing religious about the fact that children do far better with their biological parents together in the same household. All of these we have scientific data on. If you know all that the logical consequence is not to have sex casually and only with the person you decide to spend your life with whether you call it marriage or not. Again I get temptation and obviously people care more about their orgasm than they do for their offspring. All over the world, marriage is and was a thing due to sex leading to children and casual relations was frowned upon all over the world. Contraception obviously changed that perception in the west particularly because now people actually think the purpose of sex is pleasure only. They even say terms as ‘sex is not consent to pregnancy’. It’s illogical thinking like today’s society does. I’ve met people btw that were atheist and yet come to these logical conclusions by themselves and live their lives pretty morally
I don't envy gay Catholics. It sounds like they are in a difficult position: to choose between saying no to the sexual impulses they feel or saying no to their church's teachings. Of course, straight Catholics would be in a similar dilemma if they are unmarried since, if I understand correctly, the Catholic Church does not allow pre-marital sex for the faithful.
It's not pleasant (obviously) or easy, in my experience. But then, we all have crosses to bear and it's best to live 'Thy will be done' and not 'my will be done'. Although easier said than done, sometimes.
@@frumaatholoid amen 🙏
The prelates (including the pope) let him get away with his obvious heresies, even promoting him then turn around and accuse his critics of “schism” is pretty rich!
Dear Spence, I see that you love the Church and that you do want what is best for her.
And now, I hope that you are rethinking what you wrote here 10 days ago. Calumny is still a sin. It hurts the Church, but even worse, it hurts you. Your heart is greater than that. I am praying for you, my friend.
@@susand3668 How was any of what he stated calumny, you forked-tongue hypocrite?
- "The prelates (including the pope) let him get away ... even promoting him" CHECK! Francis has publicly congratulated Martin for his ministry and has had multiple private audiences with him. Not to mention they are both Jesuits.
- "Obvious heresies" CHECK! If you want to argue this, then you are being dishonest or not steadfast on your faith (as it is obvious for every firm Catholic that he's EVIL).
- "accuse his critics of schism” CHECK! For Francis: Muslims venerate the same God as Christians, Jews are "our older brothers", atheists will go to heaven, Martin Luther was justified, Eastern Orthodox and their saints are just as Catholic (despite having multiple theological developments contrary to the very core of Catholic dogma), etc,... But he's waging a war against Traditional Catholics.
Trent, all of your videos and opinions are fantastic and a great resource. If I can make a request for a video because I think this is a nuanced topic, "is video game emulation sinful?" The reason I ask for this is because initially i would say yes but I'm curious about the idea of when the video game owner no longer releases the game or if there's no other way to play the game or I the event yhat you own the game already but you either rip the program from the cartridge for personal use or if you have no way of playing the game otherwise. On the counter side, it seems like it would still be as one doesn't have a right to the property of others and emulation reduces the inherent subjective value of the game if it can be obtained for free. I think it's a not well touched on topic but could be a good free for all Friday topic.
This would fall under the sin of theft, if anything. Theft is the use or deprivation of property against the reasonable will of its owner. The interest of a video game publisher is satisfied when the end user of the game has purchased a copy that they produced. If the end user has such a copy of the game but chooses to play it via a ROM on an emulator, I don't see how it's reasonable for the owner to object. If copies are no longer available for sale, I could see a case going either way.
Jesus said even looking at a woman with lust is a sin. I think it's pretty safe to assume that homosex didn't need to be explicitly condemned by Him.
Where's the link to that conversation he mentioned?
How is this guy not anathematized? Asking seriously.
Francis supports Martin.
Using the Word of God to try to justify sins of the flesh is an incredible blasphemy and sacrilege against God.
Martin completely fails to distinguish between the legal distinction of motive and intent. It extends to the laws regulating sin too.
God is not complicated. Willingness to accept his commands are.
Thank you Trent for speaking out against this! Why don't the bishop's shut this down or discipline martin?? He's leading catholics astray! Believe the devil is inside martin!!
For the record, the only bishop in the world with that authority would be Pope Francis. Since Father James Martin is a Jesuit and that order has no bishop.
The society of Jesus is truly the society of Judas bergolio and martin its most unfaithful witness.
@@archimandritegregory7730 No
Because Most Holy Family Monastery is right. This is not the Catholic Church. It is counterfeit.
@@j.knight9335 No
As a Protestant, I see y’all keep critiquing him, but he’s still a priest and not excommunicated. At this point, your church is no different than ours; we can’t excommunicate pastors of other churches, and you don’t excommunicate priests of your own!
That’s not how excommunication works…
@@chezjowy8596 it literally is. I don’t think you know how it works.
@@disguisedcentennial835 Lol you sectarian say the dumbest thing, the different is you are dozens of thousands of sects you don't have control over those sects the catholic church have control over the catholic church in any moment that they decide to excomunicate a prelate they can excommunicate them, to the contrary of you sectarians
@@YiriUbic3793 then do it. We’re waiting. 🥱
I dont get how this guy is still in communion with the church
I'm sick of the chicanery and pretending he doesn't know full well what he is doing. Defrock him. You can't do any of this campaigning for sodomy 'by accident,' so spare the 'assume his intentions' shtick.
@@ReverendDr.Thomas Learn English please.
You should definitely review Matt Walsh talking to Joe Rogan about gay marriage! It was a great discussion.
St Paul Romans 1:27 "And in the same way the men gave up the natural use of the woman and were burning in their desire for one another, men doing shame with men, and getting in their bodies the right reward of their evil-doing."
James Martin do you read the Bible? Want some more? Here you go :
St Paul Corinthians 6:9 "Have you not knowledge that evil-doers will have no part in the kingdom of God? Have no false ideas about this: no one who goes after the desires of the flesh, or gives worship to images, or is untrue when married, or is less than a man, or makes a wrong use of men"
We definetly don't have the same God.
Where is the bishop of this area? Where is the leader ship?
Intrinsically evil acts mean no circumstance or intention can make the act a good act, if the object is evil, then the act is evil.
"in the same chapter are universal moral laws" and how do you separate them?
How is Fr. Marin not excommunicated yet... I'm sorry but there's no reason to think he has any good intentions here.
@UCobODVVvuZ7PCP6oBGLzxOA Of course he is. "manifest heretic" is just theory, unless he is openly thrown out, he works under the Churches' authority, constantly. Also, if you truly believe Popes are heretics for generations than you do not believe that Christ is protecting his Church from the Gates of Hell and you believe the Apostolic Succession is broken, so you're not Catholic either, because those things can't possibly happen. If there's an anti-pope, the issue has to be resolved within the succession of that same Pope. If Church is going astray as a whole, Christ abandoned it, and that can't happen according to Catholic doctrine either. You've successfully dogmatized yourself into a corner. You're view is not a solution. Vatican II is Holy Spirit led, it has validly been authorized by the Magisterium. The problem is that people like Fr Martin are not in line with it at all.
@@mitromney
He does not profess the True Faith, so he is not a member of the body. This is Catholic teaching.
Pope Pius XII, Encyclical Mystici Corporis (1943):
_Actually only those are to be included as members of the Church who have been baptized and profess the true faith_, and who have not been so unfortunate as to _separate themselves_ from the unity of the Body, or been excluded by legitimate authority for grave faults committed …. As therefore in the true Christian community there is only one Body, one Spirit, one Lord, and one Baptism, so there can be only one faith. And therefore if a man refuse to hear the Church let him be considered - so the Lord commands - as a heathen and a publican. It follows that those divided in faith or government _cannot be living in the unity of such a Body_, nor can they be living the life of its one Divine Spirit…. For not every sin, however grave it may be, is such as of its own nature to sever a man from the Body of the Church, as does schism or heresy or apostasy.
@Manny Are you saying he has excommunicated himself?
@@EpoRose1 By his manifest heresy and public resistance to the doctrine taught by the Catholic Church, "fr" James Martin does not hold office or membership in the body of Christ (not that he ever has to begin with, but for the sake of argument, suppose he once did). Again, this is Catholic teaching.
1917 Pio-Benedictine Code of Canon Law:
"Any office becomes vacant upon the fact and without any declaration by tacit resignation recognized by the law itself if a cleric: … 4. Publicly defects from the Catholic faith"
@@mkd1113 You must use the currently valid code of canon law, not the 1917 one.
Thanks Trent
Trent, please give your thoughts on why Pope Francis continues to meet with JM and write letters to JM Praising his work with LGTBQ. It’s very unsettling and confusing for us people in the pews especially because the Pope will not speak clearly on this issue.
Thanks for your amazing work !
That is interesting, it is things like this that prevent me from even considering Catholicism. The Popes are just men, and often flawed.
We should be pointing out to people, in particular, Christians supporting the "LBGTQ Community" that it really is its own religion, its own cult.
Don't get me wrong, we must be charitable to anyone who aligns to this religion. Afterall, it's good to have ecumenism between many religions. There are many same sex attracted persons in the Catholic Latin Rite. Any and all Christian's who have same sex attraction, mental illness, sexual deviancy, addicted to pornography...we are all welcome in the Church. As sinners, Jesus calls us all to repent and amend our behaviors to be more aligned to holiness. Additionally, we must pick up our cross and follow Him. We're all battling spiritual attacks and we must not allow Satan to keep us from God's sanctifying grace through the sacraments of Christ's Church.
When Satan persuaded a hebephile, (possible pedophile) to coin the word homosexuality, and posit it as an identity for the first time in history and culture, just over a century ago, (so not a transgression, and historically a remedy for the powerful and jaded, or an artificial reaction to the temporary availability of women in institutions) it was just a tiny part of modernism, but it created a terrible identity based trap.A huge berrier to change.
Therapy doesn't work when persona is confused with essence.
We're all just just people, who can buy a lie anytime, especially in a time of anomie and alienation.
Unless we thoroughly investigate the "sex negative," trauma and sexual disgust as part of the formation of self belief and actions, to counteract the so called "sex positive", (which dovetails so neatly with the commodification of sex and is not reality orientated) Then we can't help ourselves, all of us, without exception, it changed everything.
Martin received a hand-written letter from Francis in June 2021 commending Martin for his “ministry."
Good reminder, thanks.
Bergoglio is a forked-tongue lizard creature.
@@sliglusamelius8578 Yes, also known as a Modernist.
Pope Francis can’t change the Bible. Nobody can - but Jesus Himself in the second coming, because He’s the Almighty. When He comes again, many will scream “My Lord, my lord” and Jesus will disavow them. Woe unto them!
@@lorenzolozzigallo2589 Pope Francis came to the defense of pro-LGBT Jesuit Father James Martin on Saturday, praising him as a “man of values.”
For someone who claims to have studied this plain issue for ten years, Brandon Robertson must be a poor scholar indeed. His judgment has been compromised by his own perversion and twisting of Scripture. Very concerning. Father James Martin is even more condemned because he rejects both Scripture and Tradition on this issue. 👍
Yet pope Francis sends him love letters ?
I don’t know where to go it’s driving me crazy
1:40, wow. I had no idea he okaed polyamory unions as valid Christian unions. Please vote Red in elections and destroy the narcissistic god-destroying horror created by democratic dictators in the last 20 years.
Martin is a perfect example of the kind of person that Jesus was referring to when He said, " Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted. Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch."-Matt.15:13-14. He is willfully blind to his sin because he loves his sin and he definitely loves the darkness rather than the Light. This would also apply to Robertson. Don't even give them the time of day. God certainly doesn't.
Greetings Friends 👋🙏
It could be that Father Martin is gay.
So much for keeping an open mind and hearing different viewpoints. None of those articles are presented as teaching of the Catholic Church, they actually do the opposite. None of these are written by Fr. Martin so the only critique is that this website is open to publishing other viewpoints which an apologist should welcome. Unfortunately many Catholic apologists think fellow Catholics are too dumb to be challenged and come to their own conclusions.
The only thing this shows is that many Catholics in the US worship their conservative politics more than their Catholic faith. This is why Trent wrote a book on communism when the real threat in the US is fascism. This is also why he defends deportation but does not speak against taking children away from their parents at the border. Trent's book on abortion's foreword was written by conservative darling Fr. Pavone who the Vatican has dismissed from priesthood. Trent also goes out of his way to publicly state that preventing the gunning down of children at a school has nothing to do with being pro-life. The list goes on...
We care about the orthodoxy of church teachings, simple as that not your idea of "conservative politics" repent. Yes we know this isnt official teaching but dont be stupid this guy isnt teaching the true teachings of Jesus Christ with all the lgbt stuff he is pushing.
As a Baptized Catholic I reheat anything that goes against Church teaching.
Why did you title it "critiquing" and not "criticizing?"
Dear Trent,
Please react to MATT WALSH's recent appearance on the JOE ROGAN podcast, specifically their conversation on GAY MARRIAGE!!! Super interesting conversation and love to hear your thoughts!!!
18:06
"enshrined" is a quite a stretch for describing the passages concerning homosexuality in the symposium. aristophanes (the person that made positive statements about homosexuals) was something of a philosophical enemy of plato, and the role he plays in the broader drama of the symposium is rather complex. arguing that the inclusion of these statements constitutes an "enshrinement" of man-man/man-boy/lady-lady "love" is almost like saying shakespeare's merchant of venice "enshrines" usury.
plato also very plainly condemns homosexuality and other sexual sins in the laws, so that should probably be noted as well, even though that only makes us more certain that he condemned it at the time of writing the laws.
How is Fr. Pavone removed from the priesthood and this bloke still has a platform in the Church???
"is this only condemning idolatrous killings" -- yes
Hi Trent, Check out Matt Walsh Vs Joe rogan disagreeing on gay marriage. Joe questioned him pretty hard and I feel like Matt struggled through this one. I feel like you could do a great job responding to Joe's questions! Thanks!!
Joe kept saying word salad, it only sounded good because he said a bunch of stuff, quantity over quality
I don’t think Matt struggled through it, but I do think he was trying to appeal to natural law since Joe Rogan is not religious and Biblical arguments wouldn’t be likely to convince him.
I have a question for all Catholics here. Are you offended by the phrase “non-practicing Catholic”? My college professor said I was not allowed to make comments in class because I had said that phrase in a question I asked in a previous class and it was extremely offensive to two Catholics in there. Is this widely accepted as offensive in the Catholic Church?
Not offended but confused. It is a bit of a paradox because Catholicism is a belief system that is a call to action, unlike Judaism which is a race, or Brahmin as a caste.
@@rudymatheson1415 well I guess it depends on what you mean by catholic. If you were christened in the Catholic Church the clergy still consider you part of the Church even if you don’t attend mass.
It is a really excellent video. On a personal note, I find the arguments by people like Robertson sophistry.
This man has gone beyond mere heresy.
Trent, why are you doing this? This should be Jorge Bergolio's job.
For me, Leviticus being targeted to the Israelites at the time specifically seems like a strong argument.
Homosexuality would still be wrong regardless, just not for the outright stated levitical reason.
No, judgement against others of which you know nothing is the sin here.
You'll have to elaborate, bungalow.
What's the best Catholic Bible English translation ????
There are a few that are good to look at. If you like more antiquated or flowery language, the Douay-Rheims is a great choice. For formal language that's easier to read, the Knox version is pretty good. As for modern translations, I can't give you really a solid answer as i dont use them, but I would just go with one that marks itself as a Catholic bible
Douay-Rheims remains the best in many ways, although there are still some small things that translators like to quibble about with this older translation, particularly where it takes after the Latin Vulgate and not the older Greek sources.
Revised Standard Version, Catholic Edition is not terrible, but was done in collaboration with Protestant and Orthodox scholars, and it doesn't take the most literal line of translation, favoring more natural sounding English.
New American Bible is used for Mass readings often, so it can't be terrible. I haven't read this one myself. There is also the NABRE, the revised edition, which is apparently more correct concerning the Old Testament.
Catholic Study Bible, New American, Third Edition has been recommended to me in the past.
I would personally recommend the RSVCE for casual reading. For deeper study of a passage, always compare multiple translations to each other.
@@Nate77HK avoid the NABRE like the plague. And if you do get it, never, ever read the footnotes. They were written by the faithless
@@EPH-re2xj not a catholic bible.
@@EPH-re2xj somewhat, with some inaccurate translations, and minus a few books, and not approved for use for that reason.
Your interpretation of Romans 1 in reply to Fr Martin assumes that homosexuality isn’t itself idolatrous. Have a careful read of the condemnation of contraception (or more accurately a contraceptive mentality) in the Douay Rheims version of Tobit 6:16-22 for a broader biblical context. I don’t have any notifications on for RUclips, so if I miss any replies it’s probably because of that.
I’ve asked you this before, but haven’t gotten an answer in return. I think I found an answer in The first and second ecumenical councils but I will ask you again for clarification. what about the people that are bound to Father Martin’s pastoral care and the care of the Bishop that is approving what he puts out there? Do they not have to submit to his teaching and not to the teaching of some lay apologist, even a well respected apologists such as yourself? You & I are free to disagree with Father Martin but we are not under his pastoral care. If the church (hierarchy which is responsible for him) is not censoring, sanctioning, nor publicly correcting him how can the people under him take your advice/opinion over his?
We don’t have to agree to teaching from them that go against Church teaching. Martin is a wolf in sheep’s clothing nothing more.
@@brianfarley926 I can agree with you but that doesn’t help those bond by canon law to follow Father Martin. From what I understood, that, until he is excommunicated or his teaching is officially publicly declared heretical his flock his bound to follow their shepherd; then, if he is either publicly corrected by his direct superior officially or if he is publicly excommunicated by his superior or by the Pope, then he and all of his followers are exercised from the church. Each fallen away member could return to the body of the Church individually if they repent, confess and change their ways & public practices. (but again I don’t know that I am correct on my reading and understanding of the ecumenical councils hence I am asking Trent or his moderator, or any well versed viewer of this vid for an answer). I am not asking for a condemnation of Father Martin or his teachings, nor am I asking if what he is teaching is misguiding. Nor am I defending him nor his teachings. I am concerned for what happens to souls who are following him out of good faith and obedience.
As far as I know pay people are free to refer to any parish in their diocese. As a priest, he can't bind his congregation to anything but I would consider the lay people that decide to attend his parish and be shepherd by him neigh blameless.
@@alpha4IV - To begin with, Fr. Martin is a Jesuit and unlikely to even have a parish. Further, obedience in all cases ends at sin. A bishop must be honored if he unjustly orders a priest to stop presiding over public Mass. He can never order a priest to preach scandal. It is the same for lay people. There is often abused Scripture passage about "call no man Father". What it really means is that Fr. Martin cannot redefine sin. If you know it's wrong, you will not be able to bring to your judgement "Fr. Martin said..."
Lastly, God handles the issue of souls, as He does in all cases. Only He can judge level of ignorance. People are far less ignorant than is politely assumed. If people want Fr. Martin's dubious "reassurances" then they probably already know.
Good question. Catholicism, fortunately, is a very comprehensive religion and has safeguards in place for these kinds of situations.
If you were to have a priest or bishop like Father Martin (This probably won't be an issue with Father Martin himself since he is a Jesuit and has no church.) who openly taught something that went against Catholic Church teaching, such as supporting homosexual actions, then the church under him must side with the higher authority in that circumstance. The Church has publicly corrected pro-LGBTQ Catholic priests before (though I don't think Father Martin himself), like just awhile ago when Pope Francis released a document condemning the German Church's blessing of gay marriages as the Church cannot bless sin.
While Pope Francis is no heretic on this issue, he also doesn't crack the whip nearly as hard as he ought to in getting these people in line and hasn't really taken any disciplinary action other than releasing a document that basically amounted to waving a finger and saying "no, no, don't do that." This is where we should pray to God for Pope Francis to take more proactive corrective measures.
But long story short yeah, official Church teaching comes before your local bishop or priest. It's one of the things that separates us from Orthodox, who generally do whatever their bishops say, and that is why you have like 5000 Orthodox churches that get broken up whenever there's a war between the nations of two dioceses.
Ignored behavior is condoned behavior.
I won't be pointing fingers. I'll just let their actions, or lack of, be their own downfall.
Nah. Their downfall affects everyone. If they fall down. Shine a spotlight on it. And let the world know why it happens
It took them 10 years of bible study to try and figure out a loophole and that’s the best they can do?
On Joe Rogan’s podcast, Graham Hancock made a comment about how awful the Church is and how Christians need to quit acting virtuous. I would be interested in seeing Trent’s response to Graham’s comments.
We have a hateful extremist politics, fellow Catholics starving at the border, corporate manipulation…and this topic is of up most important? If it’s a sin, let it go, we all have our own struggle with sin. Why don’t you use your time and intellect more positive. We have too much judgment and not enough love.
Pope Francis has a love fest with James Martin. Why? Makes one wonder.
I grew up Catholic. Never was remotely anti gay.
It is alleged that Jim martin is a homosexual receiving funds from the homosexual community
I have to agree with Trent here. Liberal Christians have a better argument to say that this was not inspired or is part of many incorrect ideas at the time. They can say that God is revealing newer updated truths now etc etc
Trent can you do a video of the treasure Christ videos about false teacher and false prophet about the likes of TD Jake's I just wanna have your opinion about the channel on RUclips called treasure Christ on what they say about other churches or you can respond here
How is “Fr” Martin still a priest? Weak bishops.
I've heard it said that the most honest translation of 'malakoi' would actually be the F-word. 'Softie' seems ... well, a little too soft for the deeply insulting connotation of the ancient Greek word.
Primacy of the conscience overrides these critiques. If one truly believes that a loving God would not condemn people for loving another of the same sex, you must follow your conscience according to Aquinas.
Except that everyone has the responsibility to form their consciences. It can't be feelings based only, you have to genuinely seek out what God wants.
Nonsense. Aquinas would condemn homosexual acts.
Pope exists to provide unity and clarity within the church, yet here's an ordained priest publishing heresy and making the rounds on talk shows and selling books. He even gets to meet the pope in person, yet no consequences. Interesting.
Priests are the responsibility of their bishop, popes and archbishops are there mainly to police bishops and official documents.
The pope is in clear support of LGBT and atheism. Just look at all he's done in the past decade. The church is infiltrated by the government to push political agendas down the throats of faithful christians who are the only opposition to this new world order.
@@tafazzi-on-discord I don't think that addresses the issues I brought up.
@@tafazzi-on-discord pope Francis has personally promoted Fr. Martin in the last two years.
I am a Catholic but let’s face it! Francis has largely discredited the papacy since his function is to keep the Church unified under Christ and preach with clarity! The whole point of his infallibility is to clarify the scriptures and church doctrine! Has he done that?
Don't trust anyone who has had any kind of sex outside of marriage.
Comment of the century. Liberals are cheaters.
So most people.
@@pinguy2334 Most people aren't trustworthy yeah
lol lol lol. Plancks and motes.
@@jhoughjr1 You are not to be trusted.
Anyone should send a letter to have fr. Martin excommunicated
The argument at 23:00 fails to realize that, through Christ, all of mankind has become 'Israel', specifically those that come to God through Christ. And so the laws to stand apart from the heathen, Gentile, and pagan, apply just the same to the Christian(read as the New Covenant Israelite or Hebrew) as they would have to the ethnic Israelite. This thinking requires one completely separate Christianity from Judaism as practiced at the time and previous to Jesus rather than as an extension, or rather, the culmination of Judaism resulting in 'Messianic' practices of worship and sacrament as opposed to 'Levitical' practices, at least in regard to liturgical rites and ceremonies as well as an extended and adjusted doctrine to account for the fulfilment through the Messiah.
If we shouldn't follow things given to the Israelites in the Old Testament... what are the Ten Commandments? Chopped liver?
I refer to him as Mr Martin.
This post is for critical thinkers and is not for those who think that citing the bible or reiterating Church policy is an adequate response. Just why the Roman Catholic Church advocates blind ideological adherence to life long celibacy through the magisterium regardless of the consequences for them just because someone is gay or whatever beggars belief and demonstrates such gracelessness towards the blessings of sex and the body that one would swear that the minds behind the teaching were deliberately trying to belittle God and diminish and demoralise us all to the very fullest possible extent. It is not as if when two men make love that the sex even needs to be penetrative? Very disturbing and bizarre policy and teaching imho.
He should leave the church if he can’t abide the teachings of God.
No, he should repent and remain in the Church.
Catholic teachings are completely correct on the issue of homosexuality. There is absolutely no way to justify sexual activity outside the marital bond between a man and a woman.
I will point out, however, that Sodom was destroyed for more than one sin (not just sexual perversity)...she was also practiced "pride, gluttony, and lack of concern for the poor and needy". (Ezekiel 16:49) So, Sodom wasn't just destroyed for sexual sins, it was also destroyed for material excesses and ignoring the cries of the poor. I say this because it seems we're too obsessed with sexual sins (this is true of both Catholics and Protestants), and not obsessed enough with sins of omission in failing to share God's overwhelming concern for the hungry, the thirsty, the naked, the sick, the immigrant, and the prisoner. (See Isaiah 58:1-14 and Matthew 25:31-46) This would include any nation's policies and systems that perpetuate poverty.
I'll never forget a line from a monologue from Protestant Christian comedian Mike Warnke, author of "The Satan Seller". He said regarding Scriptural prohibitions vs. affirmative commands, "If you're doin' the do's, you won't have TIME to do the don't's!" We know that St. Mother Teresa so immersed herself in serving the poor that she hardly had time to eat or sleep, much less engage in any sin of the flesh that might have otherwise tempted her.
Im not Catholic
But seems the Catholic faith
Is going down a dark road
How is Martin still a priest… where is his Bishop?!
Jesuits, man... They don't have a Bishop to answer to. The Church needs a better method for keeping priests who belong to religious orders in check. Most of them don't need it because most are remarkably hardcore Catholic men, but Father Martin is an exception.
@@gunsgalore7571 We have bishops, like everyone else. I can only assume his bishop is on board with it, or at least not very bothered by it.
@@FrJohnBrownSJ I thought as much Fr. Thank you for the clarification.😊