I worked really hard on this video. If you appreciate the effort I put into investigating these topics please support me by following me on twitter twitter.com/karljobstgaming and joining the discord discord.gg/EjDRvg7 No clips in this video are credited to avoid any potential backlash or drama which I disapprove of. Not all of the clips included are wrong, I AGREE with some of them. I just included clips that I thought were really relevant to the video. Looking forward to moving on and putting this entire saga to rest!
17:46 that aged well, because turns out it wasn’t luck at all someone noticed, it was because MinecrAvenger was also a cheater and noticed Dream had increased his odds because *he* was doing the exact same thing.
Man this is giving me flashbacks to WARZ when everyone was cheating with ESP and you could tell who was cheating because they would always LOS you to not get mowed down from 1 kilometer away. (atleast I told myself everyone was cheating because I was) Nobody thinks they are the bad guy.
"The best and worst part of learning and understanding statistics... is that the large majority of the world does not understand statistics, yet claim to." My teacher in statistics, last year
OMG, for real. Especially frustrating to me personally has been the Covid numbers. I won't go into it because I shout into the void of the internet too much already, but the efficacy and other stats have been so much better than predicted. I especially "loved" the video with the gold blocks representing the difference between Harvard Guy and the Minecraft Mod Team.
@@chucklebutt4470 honestly, knowing statistics should be absolutely considered as a MUST HAVE to even get your diploma in high school. Maybe not knowing how to exactly calculate but UNDERSTANDING the fundamentals, how it works, possible biases, and etc.
I'm working toward my Black Belt in Lean Six Sigma and I often find the old adage true, "People use statistics the way a drunk uses a lamppost. For support, not illumination." I also can say that the paper Dream commissioned is shite, and shows the writer's unfamiliarity of the subject at hand.
It's all about the money, honey. This controversy is still popular, popular means clicks and views, and clicks and views mean cash in Karl's pocket. I won't say money is the sole reason Karl is still covering this, but it certainly isn't a reason to stop.
@@marcobering3945 I'm not insulting him I'm impressed by his diligence and dedication to covering this properly. If he wanted "clicks & money" he would've made a video right when the admission happened, but he didn't and waited to cover it in-depth at the risk of covering something no longer relevant. A lot of integrity and dedication on display not greed.
The fact that the person who exposed Dream was a cheater himself says it all. Cheaters are the most likely people to know if something is wrong because they themselves are doing it. My guy looked at the drops and was like “hmm, this guy is getting as lucky as me when I’m using cheats? Something is wrong” 😂😂
Ant Venom’s section speaking on cycling mods out of folders, I couldn't help but reflect on my 7 copies of GTA 5 that I use for content creation; I press a single button to change which folder steam looks at. Patch 1.24, Patch 1.27, Chaos, Newest Patch, Modded, OHKO, and No Cutscene skip. Many of these look identical and you'd never know which one I was using once I was in the game except for one thing. The strategy of 'Save-warping' causes your game to crash if you have mods loaded. I have a done a handful of runs on my modded version, only to crash an hour in when I tried to save warp which alerted me to my mistake. I find your explanation for Dream’s behaviour and his modded-runs (that he inadvertently cheated) to make more sense than him intentionally cheating. My initial interest in the ‘Dream Cheating’ story was due to my reverence for the moderator’s efforts to determine his runs were cheated, and my first video was largely just expressing that. I am not a statistician, yet I read the report and felt I understood enough to believe it valid. When Dream’s report came out, I did not catch the errors caught by others. Speaking to the statisticians of the moderator’s report also helped me understand that I did not possess the level of understanding I believed. Given this revelation I questioned why I should have any confidence that Dream cheated. I concluded I only felt confidence due to lengths the moderators went to, Dream’s poor conduct, and a bias driven by a strong dislike of those who violate rules for their own gain (which Dream was now associated with). Now having competing statistical analyses and commentary of which I didn’t feel qualified to assess, I considered the foundation for my belief that he cheated quite poor. When he contacted me asking to be interviewed, I was confused. My videos were not exactly kind to him. If he was going to seek out a softball interview, why would he pick me? I didn’t exactly have the reputation for being a push-over. I sat down to watched and read everything again to devise what I felt were the questions that would best enable me to get information that had not yet been presented publically. I made over 30 and I questioned whether I had inadvertently set out to confirm my original position perhaps out of bias. It is worth noting, I read many of Dream’s different social media posts while making these questions and I did see a difference between Dream’s earlier comments and later comments which, at the time, I attributed to damage control rather than growth as a person. So I had the interview with Dream. While he didn’t always give a “perfect” answer, Dream always seemed to have an answer. He didn’t hesitate. The answer didn’t come across as scripted, but they also didn’t come across as a person struggling to think of an excuse. He came across as a likeable person, something even those who accused him of cheating continued to maintain. Almost 3 hours we were there, he didn’t complain. It only ended when I ran out of questions and it seemed like he would have been fine to be there for the rest of time, I was usually the one who said we had to move on from a question because he just wanted to plead his case as much as possible. 20% of viewers made it 15 minutes in, 10% 1 hour, 5% all the way. Few cared what he had to say, and few were interested why I changed my mind even while being perfectly fine mocking me for it. The interview made me unsure of what to think of Dream, and being unable to believe myself qualified to feel confident in the statistics, I ended the conversation by saying something like “I am unsure, but if I had a gun to my head I wouldn’t say you cheated”. This is an expression to mean you would only make a decision if you were forced under penalty of death given your lack of confidence. It is after all “innocent until proven guilty” and I didn’t feel firm enough to confirm guilt. After the interview, many videos were released breaking down the papers and what they actually assessed and how. This made me feel more confident that Dream cheated, as I had regained my trust in the statistics, but now I felt this trust was justified. I now had to invent reasons for myself as to how all of Dreams actions (which Karl listed in the video) made sense for a cheater to do. None of the possible explanations seemed to fit well, but the facts of the run being cheated seemed undeniable so I settled on Dream hating RNG and just wanted to speed things up to get a run he deserved. If I had to choose between that explanation and the one given in this video, that Dream unknowingly cheated, the second explanation seems to fit better with the totality of Dreams actions.
Your interview was one the biggest things in Dream's favor in terms of intent For someone to confidently lie for 2 hours, and to it so well that he could convince someone else that he didn't cheat, idk, felt too unlikely
Well said Matt. The various extremely conflicting circumstances created a created an air of doubt no matter where one looked. Dream succeded at galvanizing a terrible image of himself through the totality of his actions at face value. Everything put together looked awful. Then on the other side of the coin, your interview showed the human side of Dream. His responses were filled with passion, and what may well have been sincerity. An immensely stark contrast from the packaged situation as a whole. The only logical conclusion is exactly the route that you took, acknowledging that you were not an expert and your human instincts were telling you something was off. Extremely commendable. Also, very interesting to note the timing of the interview with you. He was essentially in his damage control phase, and was around or just before the time he began walking his conviction back. Theoretically, you were speaking to a man who could have easily passed a lie detector on a subject. While at the same time being completely demonstrably guilty. What a fascinating thought.
In order to be running a mod the mod has to be installed and activated on your game. This is.../not/ actually difficult to do. It's not difficult to check for either. It is very definitely not beyond Dream's technical ability. One of the basic rules of speedrunning is that you don't run mods. It's also completely trivial to rename mods so that a mod that is named 'completely innocent pov shader' is actually a cheat compilation. This is why it's a rule: There is no way the community can trust that any mod you have installed is /not/ a cheat. So you check for this before you start the run. And you provide the screenshots of your empty mods folder in addition to your video. Someone as accomplished as Dream not doing these things and going out of his way to not provide that info? Absolute lack of credibility. He knew he was cheating. He just didn't want anyone else to know that. He's also 'somewhat obnoxious' of course, it's a core component of his brand, but that has little to do with his cheating methods.
@@battlefields2mine smh bro the rng depends on where u spawn Especially if u spawn in Russia,your killer will definitely have a faster rng in the alleyways Maybe post 15 you'll get lucky
@@battlefields2mine Some alleys have over 100% chances of that "killer behind the dumpster" What you need is the game sense to know if the crackhead that just rolled the homeless dude is actually working with him.
rewatched this and the part about how sincere dream seemed really hit home. he was so convicted and convincing at times the cognitive dissonance literally felt like gaslighting (considering i knew the invalidity of his run and was unfortunately assuming malintent) i know the team tried to do everything as best as we could but i wish the whole thing went better
@@doodleshroom9101 I also ticked at this moment but Karl specified before that Dream gave him access to a lot of things. However I still believe this kind of "humor" is a bit misplaced for a video like that and could have been said differently to avoid confusion imo.
For context: in sport, if someone has illegal substances in their system they receive a ban, no matter what. A lot of cases of band are when the athlete is taking a supplement that contained the substance and they didn’t know. It is the athletes responsibility to know whether or not their supplements have banned substances. In speedrunning, it should be the case that the speerunner is responsible for ensuring they are not cheating.
This may sound stupid, and it probably is, but in the athlete situation, if someone injected steroids into you while you were sleeping, how would you tell? Like if someone changed your settings while you were offline
@@legendarywiimasterYou always take a test before entering a competition to check if you have or don't have steroids. As simple as that. You don't test AFTER you enter a competition, you do it BEFORE entering it. The same way applies to a speedrun.
@@legendarywiimaster Exactly. You don't test all the time, you only test when something important comes up. Therefore, you take tests before entering a competition, doing a speedrun, etc. And, in the case of speedruns, tests only takes a couple minutes, so there is literally no reason to not take them. It's your responsibility to be sure you never break the rules.
Hell, in MMA even using IVs for rehydration is forbidden (unless medically necessary, you need to apply for an exemption for those, though) because it helps mask some other prohibited substances
I enjoyed that statement immensely, and it hooked me immediately. When someone makes a ballsy-ass statement like that, there's a part of you that says, "Oh ho, I wanna see if he can back it up!" The hyperbole was warranted, based on how much information was presented. Obviously exaggeration, but when you're telling a story, you gotta squeeze that juice, son!
To be fair, the speed run community specializes in deep diving on video games + technique so it isn’t super surprising that this video was analyzed, speed runs get specific enough attention that cheating is less likely to go unquestioned
"People can still talk about whatever they like, but you as a viewer should never take it seriously, and never ever assume that the person you are watching has any idea what they are talking about. Unless of course that person is me." ~Karl Jobst
Honestly I don't care if he cheated or not at this point. His attitude about the whole thing makes me roll my eyes and shake my head. A team of over 10 extremely dedicated minecraft speedrun moderators spent 2 months looking at every detail and crunching every statistic with extremely complicated math that no one on the internet corrects (and we all know the internet can never refuse such a temptation) and dream never even once thought "hmm something is really wrong here!". He hired someone, fed them data and when they came up with different numbers he didn't raise consern or ask for second opinions. No. Dream made a video smugly trying to debunk everything whilst sounding as arrogant as possible. Idc if he cheated or not. I know what kind of person he is now and I don't really want to be around those kinds of people :/ I hope Dream learns and becomes a better person. I'd like to see a legitimate speedrun with a humble and lovable Dream in the future.
I mean can you blame him? Guy is one of this quickest content creators to rise to RUclips fame and definitely didn't know how to handle controversy, on top of having ADHD, and is suddenly one day hit with claims he cheated when he has no real reason to believe he did because he knew he didn't enable any mods.
@@TheAdvertisement well nonetheless, he cheated. simple as that. edit: ignore my messages, I now realize that arguing about someone cheating in a timed run in a block game sounds stupid
@@unwarym1190 ...because it's still cheating, just on accident. The speedrun was cheated, but Dream still made it clear in his apology that it was accidental.
not gonna lie, when karl started talking about hacking dreams email i thought he was going to segue into a goddamn ad for an internet protection company
I won’t lie, hacking into other people’s private email is pretty shady. Thats why you need ExpressVPN!!! Protect your data from criminals, hackers, and data harvesters! 🤣
This video has all of the marks of a genuine, honest, unbiased, and truth-seeking endeavor. It's not omitting shit that doesn't fit with a narrative, it's not trying to smoothen out all the rough edges of the story... The fact that my opinion has gone back and forth a dozen times about all of the folks involved while I watched this video is, to me, indicative of Karl really getting to the heart of a story like this. Real life is fucking messy and complicated, but everyone wants a succinct explanation to satisfy their hunger for a simple, tweetable narrative. I have a feeling that during this investigation Karl probably had all of the realizations and back-and-forths I just had while watching this video. I found myself thinking multiple times throughout this video, "is Karl trying to convince me this dude cheated or he's innocent??" but I think the truth is he's trying to give us all the facts, as he was able to collect them. THAT is exactly the sort of content we need, give us ALL of the evidence so we can come to our own conclusions, but the saddest part of that is the masses aren't equipped to properly absorb, analyze, and be skeptical of a raw dump of unbiased facts and evidence. Good work Karl, as usual!
This video is certainly head and shoulders over every other video on this topic. Yet, I feel that there was quite a bit of unnecessary conjecture that detracted from Karl's objectivity. The entire portion regarding Dream's deleted mod folder sounded unconvincing to me. It's not that I believe Dream is lying, it's that Karl's analysis did not seem supported by the evidence he laid before us - there were so many alternative explanations. Of course this is a YT video, not a court submission, so I'm still quite satisfied; I simply had some critiques.
@menpower1 There were only so many Discord messages and emails to look at, so I guess that’s why that section was not as strong in the others. But that does also mean the previous explanation/consensus about that situation could also be untrue. Whatever is the truth, there were many lies spread in this controversy, and this video has the least of them, from what I’ve seen.
hasn’t been relevant for two years and this video is still a fucking banger. most objective one by far, it’s cool you actually tried reaching out to dream to hear his side and gather all the evidence he had
100 %. this was a very strange video for me. it didn't have the outcome i wished for in my low-level desires, but in my high-level desires, that is the desire to seek the truth, it had a perfect outcome. reverse porno.
From a series of video ads for Lendo a company that compare loans. He suffers from a mental condition that makes him incapable of choosing between different alternatives. He always chooses the first option presented to him. @@oddball1336
"There's no doubt Dream is skilled at what he does" *don't use this as a segue for skillshare please don't use this as a segue for skillshare* "If you want to learn a new skill-" *NOOOOOOOOO* Great vid tho
@The Ginger Fox I discovered this channel by watching other vids on dream's speedruns being fake and I shit you not, I was CONFUSED AF when I saw Karl Jobst make a vid on dream cheating as I accidentally misread as Karl Jacobs too. Karl (Jacobs) has admitted that he is a dream fan and seeing him make a vid on dream cheating, made me pause for a moment and wonder if dream had any real friends in the Minecraft community or not.
Watching in December 2023 I am struck by how well Karl handled an objectively bizarre story. I mean, at the time, you had world-class mathematics + a mask-wearing, unnamed RUclipsr + unidentified experts and developers. And I watched the whole hour-plus despite never playing Minecraft.
The mask wearing RUclipsr was Dream, the person the video is about. This was before he did his face reveal, so he's hiding his identity as it's a live action interview.
The mathematics really is simple, simple enough that anyone with minimal Minecraft and binomial probability knowledge (just some algebra formula) to do a simple computation and realize it did not happen by chance. Though of course you can’t just give a 1 in big number, stat without using statistics to put it in perspective.
@@_mark_3814 Except that's not true, the whistleblower wasn't someone with a math degree, it was a cheater who said Dream was cheating. The mass was necessary to illustrate the absurd probabilities but even then his actual statistical drop rate wasn't even super duper insane per run, but collectively became absurd.
3:49 he's like did he do it intentionally 🛑🛑🛑🛑🍑🛑🛑🛑🛑🛑 ITS HIS COMPUTER HE JERKS OFF AT IT HE WATCHES RUclips ON IT HE DOWNLOADS VIDEOS AND UPLOADS VIDEOS ON IT HE PROGRAMS HIS KEYBOARD AND HIS MOUSE ON IT HE LISTENS TO MUSIC ON IT HE PROBABLY EVEN EATS AT ITS SCREEN BEFORE IT. OH AND HE DIDNT KNOW HE DOWNLOADED A MOD. THIS IS SOME HORSE 💩 LOL THERE ARE ALOT OF PEOPLE WHOD SLAP THE HELL OUTTA THIS NO FACE FRUITY BEHIND THE MASK BROMINE FOR GEORGE
this is a prime example of why in legal proceedings people use lawyers and don't usually defend themselves. knowing how to convey information truthfully (and explain that information well) is a very important skill when it comes to controversy.
Coming here a year later and being reminded that MinecrAvenger, a now exposed prolific cheater (possibly the worst offender of all time in Minecraft), was the one who initially blew everything up with analysis of drop rates.
As someone who did and does understand the whole "client side" vs "server side" and the difference between actual mods and server plugins, I am SO happy to see this video. Karl, you always call us absolute legends, but I think it's my turn to call YOU one. I was so disappointed to see uneducated people just running with a complete misunderstanding regarding things like that, jumping on the hate train and calling it a day. This is so enlightening to see, so glad to see all the facts laid out properly, the amount of work and research you did is incredible, and I hope this will change some people's opinions on the whole thing, on Dream, and perhaps we'll all learn a lesson or two about jumping to conclusions before having all the facts, knowing the full story, and forming opinions based on ignorance and misinformation.
"perhaps we'll all learn a lesson or two about jumping to conclusions before having all the facts" - I'm sorry, my friend, but history of mankind stands firmly against your hopes.
Wait I thought this was extremely patronizing. 99% of gamers don't understand the difference between server side and client side? I'm fine with the critique that people misunderstood it, but saying "I'm the unique 1% that understands what a server is" made me cringe.
i'm glad i clicked on this video. i kind of didn't want to dive in because well, it's the whole dream debacle, but this was incredibly enlightening from start to finish, and i feel as though i have a far more rounded out understanding of what happened. it's no longer the black/white thinking of "did he or didn't he cheat", there's tons of nuance i didn't even know existed, and i'm grateful you took the time to so thoroughly pick through the evidence to present us with the facts.
I mean Dream technically could have followed that advice lol. Hiring an astrophysicist (who has to do some additional legwork because there's a lot to cover with statistics, especially if it's not quite your specialized field) definitely didn't seem like a good application of the quote above.
@@GaussianEntity This. Asking people to “trust the experts” when Dream could’ve ended all this bullshit in a second. Literally just saying… “oh damn, I use a mod in content creation and my dev accidentally changed shit my bad” instead of WAAA MINECRAFT MODS ARE JEALOUS OF HOW GOOD I AM. Don’t act like people were wrong to call out his manipulative bullshit when they saw it.
That’s the stance I took after seeing dream’s response because like... I have no idea about statistics. I can’t look over the data and sway one way or the other. If I listened to someone else, it would just be their words against dreams. Or more accurately, against dream’s physicist. I figured I’d wait until people came to a concrete consensus but by that point I stopped caring.
Whether he cheated or not, he still knew his game was modified after a certain point and said nothing for months and months while letting his fans harrass those who were proven right in the end. Thats disgusting in my view.
For me I think it depends more on how much of it he knew was going on, and how quickly after finding out about it he sent out the message to not do that.
Just in case someone missed it, the part about Karl hacking to get Dream's emails was a joke, he says at the end that Dream gave him his emails. I got a little bit confused about it myself
Was it? He also mentioned it at the beginning. Probably Karl was having a hard time keeping track of all the things he mentioned or not in the duration of what is practically a documenting film.
Doing speedruns on a server is already a bad idea, im still not convinced it was an accident. Dream probably asked karl to do this video because his video was the most popular
@@zg8999 It still doesn’t make sense, why would you not at least consider the fact that you might have been using a modified version of the game while using it in many of your videos, while it was statistically proven that you were for a WHOLE YEAR. Why did dream delete his files. If he hadn’t deleted his files, Karl’s presumption of his developer causing the issue would have had actual evidence. Remember, all of this story from dream and his developer came from a year after. Dream would have had plenty of time to delete emails and old messages to make himself look better. He already deleted videos and tweets that made him look bad in the past, this would be nothing different. I would have 100% believed dream if all of this came up at the start of the controversy. But why the hell did it take a year.
@@enolopanr9820 He did consider it, did you even watch the video? He decompiled all his mod folders, but by that time the mod was an updated version without the drop rate changes. He also did mention to the moderators, when he gave them the list of mods that might have been in the folder (he had to give a list since he'd deleted the folder) and he did mention the content mod to them, but noted that there was nothing in the content mod that would modify the drop rates. In summary, he definitely considered the possibility thoroughly, but had reason to think that the mods were biased and that he hadn't cheated. Hindsight's 20/20, it's extremely naive/ignorant to just say "oh, he should have considered it more" after the fact. He did as much as he could, given that information was being withheld from him by his dev- he decompiled stuff, told them about the content mod and what he thought would/wouldn't be affected IF it was in use, etc. Considering it more beyond that would seem unreasonable at that time, though obv not in hindsight.
Looking back on this a year later, while Dream might not have cheated on purpose, he’s still definitely at fault for his behavior. Yes, Dream had no reason to think his game could’ve been modded. However, he knew that he’d been paying somebody to modify Minecraft in the same way he had been accused of, so he should’ve asked his developer if they had modified the file to any extent around the time where the accused cheating happened. And letting several months fly by before coming out with the truth all while the ones who were correct in their accusations were getting harassed daily by his fans is horrible. Not to mention his knee-jerk reaction of a response to the accusations only served to further incriminate himself.
As a diablo 2 player who hate myself, play solo and hunt for the rarest runes. If they started dropping at a rate I never see either for myself or somebody else. I would go and see first on the forums or the patch notes if they changed the drop rate or check if there's isn't any kind of client editor. It would be more obvious to someone that speedruns diablo or at least is a pro at doing runs. If you were frustrated for the drop rate as Dream expressed on the forums and then you get an unusual amount of drops, I would check if Mojang changed something and then if something changed with my client. What I'm trying to say is that if somebody pointed out that my drop rate is irregular to an item that's so rare, I would agree and find out why it was so high.
Thank you for being such a good and honest investigator. Its very clear that despite previous knowledge and biases you're able to put aside your thoughts and feelings to objectively present your findings then make conclusions off of them. You have a very nice and calming voice and Its evident how much work you put into these. I'm beyond floored, thank you
same bro I was in my office last weekend so you could go out for a bit if you would be available and if so when you would the time to buy it from and please do so so we can gain weight
@@billy6678 jesus you dont need to like him, but going on his kids? makes you pathetic as fuck, imagine calling him asshole but going on family, you arent better lmfao
we've all done it sometimes and regretted it heck, i regretted not pushing a bunch of Git commits on a repo for a couple of weeks when my hard drive just corrupted
@@Slada1 Git is just version control. If you only use it locally then of course you don't have any protection. But Git is also used interchangeably for github which is a file storage platform that integrates the version control that they themselves developed and I think that is what he is referring to in this case. Github would be a form of backup since their servers have redundancy.
@@ruukinen "git is used interchangeably for github" Uh... no it's not? Git is git, github is github. I use git but have my own gitlab instance, and there's also plenty of other cloud based repositories.
I’m such an old man that when I heard you say “a team of some of the best experts in minecraft speedrunning” I figured it was a room full of hyper 12-year-olds.
The difference with the statistics expert (as somebody who deals with statistics in the social and behavioral sciences), is that your credibility is *everything*. Sure, people use their consulting groups and such for credit work, but that's after those firms have built up a reputation. When I was doing my studies, even though I was with an accredited group, we would still have "Written and Compiled by: Insert Author Name Here" at the end of it. I trust you, so having heard that you saw the person's name and checked credentials, I believe they're an accredited individual. But I don't think people were wrong (Critikal for example) in their opinions because they were 100% valid, as a person in that field I had the same questions they did because it seemed to break a fair amount of standards that we use. Back to watching the rest of the video now! Edit: Video complete, very well done Karl! You've given me a lot of new things to think about :)
to me that just seems like the expert saw what audience the report was being exposed to and decided he didnt want thousands of children knowing their details, that or the fact that they knew they couldnt do a comprehensive report and weren't confident with themselves. get paid move on type thing
@@nathanielweston1934 if he did that, which is possible, shows how he simply can't take his job seriously enough to deny a client that he knows he can't help
@@nathanielweston1934 That's a fair enough point, my mentor did a study once that addressed a sensitive socioeconomic issue at the time (mind you this was back in the 70s or 80s) and she received numerous death threats from people because she spoke the truth provided by the data, not the truth sought for by those preaching certain narratives. So there's definitely room for that to be a possibility, and I 100% see the dilemma that the Statistician was in, but it's unfortunately part of the job. It's something I was prepped for in university, it's kind of like how fireman are inherently going to be in danger of fire no matter what they do (though there are steps they can take to lessen certain aspects of the danger, it'll always be there). Just like with this, when you're a scientist (of which a Statistician would count, of course) you're always going to run the risk of public outcry. Ironically enough, the very people we're trying to help (the public) are often the first ones to come for our heads if the data doesn't tell the story they want.
Yeah, I think there’s an iffy implication others are being unfair for not having bought into the story Karl later went out of his way to verify (to himself at least). Formatting a document in LaTeX doesn’t make it legit, and since no one looking in on the situation from the outside has the info to verify who wrote the doc or what their relationship was to anyone involved, it’s absolutely valid to dismiss everything about it, even now. And it obviously isn’t anyone else’s responsibility to track down this info on their own. It’s great to be in a position in life where doing this level of research on, let’s just say, quite niche topics, is beneficial to ones work, but I think the average person is being perfectly reasonable by assuming that anonymous paper wasn’t on the up and up and moving on with their day.
@@iy42 That's another good point, people are really easily fooled by something if it "looks official enough". Like, I could write an APA paper about how putting the cereal in after pouring your milk makes you a psychopath (I could even include doctored citations, a fake bibliography, etc). None of the information inside of it would be legitimate info, but I would wager that a good chunk of people would just skim through, see that it all looks official enough, and then just take it for fact.
Well I am not quite sure, but for the first time I really didn't understand how conclusions in this video were made especially the Maths part, like I have maths in university, and probability was kinda close to what I minored in. Then there was the part about developer not telling, which is probably the most acceptable part, BUT he deleted the mods folder himself.................. I mean this was never an innocent mistake, the question is how liable was Dream in the scenario. Considering, destruction of pertinent evidence, lying to prosecution, trying to shift blame, admitting to lying and crime, pleading ignorance and most of all inciting violent youtube and twitter under-age hate mob.... Yeah I can assume in the American court systems he would be sentenced to the needle by now(especially Florida).......... Just saying....
Anyone else understand the difference between server side and client side mods to some extent because of playing modded terraria with friends, and understanding if you were hosting a server with some client side mods, the client side mods weren't needed by the other players?
@@Torbius a ton of people played modded Minecraft too, some minecraft mods have 100M+ downloads, it's not like minecraft modding is a niche topic either
I didn't read the response because when i finally found out about it, the pastebin got deleted, even ik the difference, a mod is something you use in your own worlds and it's downloaded onto your computer while server side plugins is basically what every non vanilla server, like hypixel have in the server
@@Torbius I don't know anything regarding terraria, but as someone who understands modding and modded other games, mods that bring visual changes to the base game are optional. And like plugins some mods only change how the server runs things like world generation as well as entity behavior and thus if it only changes how the server does things, then there is no need for connecting clients to have it installed as well. If you have any other questions feel free to ask.
After it was *mathematically proven* that the drop rates were altered, he still didn't entertain the possibility that they might have been. It's very obvious that he was just lying.
Not really, its just that he KNEW that he didn't have drop rate manipulation mods. So of course he would say he didn't. The problem is that knowledge is not fact, he thought he knew what the mod on server side did but turns out he didn't know all of what it was doing. So he was speaking from a place of ignorance and there is nothing more stubborn on the planet that an ignorant person being sure about something.
@@ExtremeMan10 it's a gamble: Karl uses his reputation to gain more attention, but i agree that it's not quite objective to say "i'm the only one that knows everything about it" and "you should not trust any other source than me" (i probably exaggerated the second quote unintentionally). But to be fair the amount of reasearch is really far beyond any other videos on that topic, that i have seen...
@@ExtremeMan10 ... F you really. He was making good content, even if he was controversial. Blaming ezscape and darkviper was.stupid but it is still a big loss.
@@verraque H3 deserves the dunking. Charlie's clip was included to show a legitimate concern that people had and Karl used it to segway into why nobody ever knew the astrophysicist's name. If you read Karl's pinned comment the you would know that not all clips included in the video were clips that Karl disagreed with.
Yep agree with you. I have no clue if he cheated intentionaly or not. WIthout all the lies Dream throwed before, I would be prone to believing this to be accident. But as you said, he cried wolf one too many time.
@@iglidor To me it seems, he had every reason to think that the moderation team was out for his blood, and was "playing dirty", so he also did that, attacking people, and spreading lies and misinformation. But in the end he ended up being the only one to lie and end up discredited. It's almost a cautionary tale about how stooping to your opponent's level can hurt you, regardless if you win or loose, and keeping your hands clear has a merit even if you think your opponent is playing dirty.
@@EvanOfTheDarkness That is part of the problem though. The moderation team did not play dirty. They put together well reasoned and extremely detailed report for why they thought he was cheating. Imagine if I told you that I have picture of blue sky. And you decided to not believe me. And instead of looking at the picture in my hand, you decided that I am trying to harras you and start acting agresively. Do you see how stupid and suspicious it sounds? That is what Dream did. He did not look at the evidence against him. He decided to hire someone to proverbialy take picture of sky to prove that it is not blue and hedged his chances by telling that guy to take the picture in night to make sure that it would not come out as blue. That is why Dream deservers all the flak he is getting. Because it is consequence of his stupid and dishonest actions.
@@iglidor Rewatch the end of the video because Jobst addressed this. He said that many people who did have tie to the mod team directly or indirectly were telling him not to trust the mods. He even had a person at Mojang tell him this. I think Dream had some bias against the Java mods was unwarranted, but HE was being told that the mods were being dishonest by people who the thought were credible. I am not the best person to explain this, but rewatch the end of the video.
My favorite detail about this whole Dream Cheating Saga is an unrelated car parked outside my old apartment. It had a lot of bumper stickers of various pop culture icons: Star Wars logos, anime characters, Gir, things like that. And one of these stickers was Dream's profile picture. Once the allegations started coming out, I noticed that the Dream sticker (and only the Dream sticker) was frayed at the edges, like someone tried to peel it off. Enviornmental storytelling at its best.
Somebody once told me that I could make some money, by bullying some people online. So I grew a gnome goatee and put on a stupid beanie and started making up some dank lies. ♪
Honestly if somebody took Keemstars kids and put them in a foster home, then threw him off a boat in the alaskan sea, the world would be better off. But, he is completely right with the statement at the end of this video. When you are as rich , privileged, and lucky as Dream and you fuck up like this, and then play PR games (badly) - yes, people want to see you punished. Pretty simple
I've seen a lot of internet drama in my days and this is the most honest and realistic way I've seen someone with a big platform treat someone else with a big platform, EVER. "He cheated and he's entirely to blame for it, but it doesn't seem intentional and he's not a bad guy and should be allowed to make amends, and we should be mindful of how taxing it is to have to fight hundreds of lies even when you're not fighting for your innocence. He's a liar and a jackass but it's really because he's immature, not malicious." No one ever puts out such a nuanced take, honestly mad respect to Karl Jobst for doing it and putting this much work into it. You are one of the best investigative journalists out there tbh. Edit: a lot of people in the replies need to lighten up lmao. Dream isn't a psychopathic killer who needs to be "PuNiShEd fOr HiS cRiMeS", no one is trying to give him a free pass on this, and y'all aren't doing justice to anyone by refusing to treat him like a human. It really seems like you're the malicious and hateful ones, willfully obtuse and holding on to an indefensible hatred just to be part of a thing. The proper response to Dream's toxic stans is not to be equally toxic. At this point, any drama that continues is just being manufactured by trolls.
This is the best summary of my opinions on Dream I’ve seen. He’s a liar and a jackass and his lias have seriously hurt the well-being of a lot of people, but it seems like he genuinely didn’t know the consequences of his actions until after the fact
The real bad people are the ones who did their best to hurt other people. Dream stills being the one to blame for all the following actions, and its late to fix things, but again, dream is not a bad person as far as i can understand.
@@abakella Well he did intentionally misrepresent and omit facts to get his fan base riled up. So while it seems entirely possible that he did not intentionally cheat, the way he behaved in the aftermath does not show him in a good light from my point of view. Because yes he did in fact create this mess.
@@voodoo1094 a man who believes he is innocent will not take kindly to what he thinks are false accusations. Can you honestly say that if your character were being publicly trashed and you didn't think you deserved it, that you wouldn't have a strong reaction and maybe even want vengeance? If Dream had turned out to be innocent, I would say he had every right to be angry and react in anger, even though someone with such a big platform should be more mature and careful. The problem boils down to the original negligence of him not making sure that he wasn't cheating in the first place.
What boggles my mind, is that after all these years he is still lying about it and his fans still try to defend him. There truly is nothing stronger than a flock of ignorant fans.
I don't believe he was initially aware that he cheated, I do believe, however, that Dream has problems with accepting responsibility and being honest with his faults. In every example of him apologizing or admitting he was wrong, he tries stretching some element of it in his favor, regardless of how honest it is. In all likelihood, he's probably developed a bit of an ego, and can't allow himself to ever be 'completely in the wrong.'
I think he intentionally cheated. There are too many inconsistencies in his argument. He refused to show the moderators his mod folder, claiming he deleted it but now months later he got it back somehow. Not to mention he hired himself a "Harvard professor" to verify his claims despite refusing the moderators' proposal to get a third party involved. And he should've noticed the irregular drop rates while he was playing, especially when he was complaining about his bad rates a few days before the run.
I thinks its crazy not to know if your game is modded every game I have is modded and you would know especially if you A.were constantly changing them and B. the only game you play
@@ryanwallace6752 But consider what was stated by Karl. No one else, speedrunners and mods, noticed it was modded from those livestreams individually. It was allegedly switched to client-side without his knowledge, it' reasonable to not check that if you're only using server-side.
I'm just very confused about the situation with the mod. Like... Wouldn't the rules have a strict approved mod-list to prevent things like this happening? Using an unapproved mod, even if it was just modifications to the renderer/world loading, would still make Dream be in violation of the rules. Either the rules have a very big oversight that allows crap like this to happen, or Dream is still breaking them even if the droprate changes were unintentional.
Literally no human being can possibly think they're completely in the wrong and live with themselves. We will always make justifications about why we did something.
17:45 "Honestly it was probably sheer luck that someone ended up being crazy enough to study his streams and collate the data, and it wasn't until several days later that the speedrunner MinecrAvenger posted his findings." Now that we have the added subplot of MinecrAvenger ALSO being a cheater, there is definitely enough sheer drama and intrigue in this insane story for Jobst to go back and make a full 90 minute documentary on the full thing from start to finish. In my honest opinion, this has been one of the most interesting stories of cheaters in the history of competitive sports... seems as though nothing in life is a coincidence.
@@Suope That's why I believe Dream, the actions Karl Jacobs listed in his conclusion don't make sense if he's guilty and a supposed "master manipulator".
@@Suope ruclips.net/video/BemHqUqcpI8/видео.html Here's an excellent video that portrays how people act in scenarios when they're innocent. Dream pretty much behaved exactly like Justin Kendall. His actions do make sense when you look at it from an unbiased perspective.
@@emerald3616 also, he just sounds dumb sometimes. some of his truthtwisting can easily be seen as him confusing things together or just misunderstanding them entirely. I'll always consider the possibility that people can be dumb and mess up before I consider they might be genius psychopath manipulators
I would have easier time believing this was accidental if the program that they used to cheat didn't instantly get deleted from both Dream's computer and from the guy's that made it.
@@Zero-ef4sc40:01 "3-I did not delete any of the evidance, and i was doing everything the mods asked me too, and i actually had one of the mods come on later to come and confirm that" -Dream "Dream certainly DID delete evidance, and saying that he didnt is another lie." -Karl Jobst. Doesnt mention the guy who made it i dont think, but dream definetly did. Hope this clears up any confusion!
@@kameronmyles2013 then you're replying to the wrong person. Tell that to the idiots claiming it got deleted from the guy who made it's folder "instantly".
@@glemonsbhatkin514 Did you just happen to have the display name "Milly Bitchel" already, or did you change it just now, just so you could comment this? Bc either way is amazing
The developer not tracking version history is really odd to me, as version control tools such as git are industry standards. It would however be consistent with the developer not revealing his mistakes, as such behavior is incredibly unprofessional.
Yeah, this entire situation seems like an honest mistake that was blown incredibly out of proportion because literally nobody was acting mature or professional
I think it’s more common than you might think. Anecdotally at least, I’m aware of similar frustrating behavior from developers that were contracted with the company I work for with lots of money on the line. I think it’s very competitive, so developers will try to protect themselves when something goes wrong. Even if, or especially, when it is their fault. Unprofessional, absolutely. Also completely understandable human behavior.
Idk... If I was a developer that caused massive drama which severely damaged someone's reputation, I would be scared to shits that Dream was going to sue me. Them not publicly apologising and explaining the whole issue and leaving it all on Dream (and Karl) is very very suspicious.
I really appreciate channels like these that do an actual deep dive and have journalistic integrity. A lot of commentary youtubers are so quick to make a video, they don't give as much care about uncovering what actually happens in these kind of situations.
Let's be real here. The very large majority of channels that were discussing the topic didn't really care if he cheated or not. It was just a hot topic that raked in easy views so for them it's a free paycheque.
I think it is likely that he didn’t originally realise he was cheating but is it hard to believe he never even considered the possibility after people called him out
It's funny how Ethan is a perfect example of being so incompetent on a topic but completely confident hes right. Literally on the same level as a flat earther...
@@Prudester He's not even dumb but he often says really stupid shit unironically. It's like a gun expert trying to be a computer software engineer! And it's sad to see...
Thing is, that the only difference between Ethan and the many, many, many random people who have been writing comments on videos and streams on this topic since the controversy started, is that Ethan makes videos. Like Karl said in this video, the larger your audience is, the more careful you have to be with what you say. It's not that what he said was dumber or more arrogant, than what many others were saying.
@@qsunn2185 OJ Simpson was an American Football star that got put on trial for the death of his girlfriend. The trial was very controversial and ended with OJ being aquitted on all counts.
@@deathhimself1427 the one where he practically says "Dream should not apologise and try to improve himself, he should just beat himself up forever and be guilty"
I mean most of the controversy comes down to that line of "people want to see you fall". It's crabs in a bucket, it's a fanbase hating their most dominant individual.
Bro you dont even have to own one, i just saw some admin say "we gonna add a plugin", and correlate things when you notice you dont have to install anything for it to work
yeah i honestly find it kinda shocking that the vast majority have no clue. but then again i guess the vast majority are playing on Bedrock these days.
The biggest red flag for me is that Dream didn't check if the mod was active when asked before going through everything he did. He spent so much time and money trying to discredit the moderators only to turn around and say "Oops, guess I did cheat by accident."
I mean, to be fair he was adamant that the mod wasn't and couldn't be active and later became frustrated. Adamantly frustrated people are as often their own worst enemies than their worst opposition.
fact, these channels will jump on any kind of drama and give their worthless opinion about it, I've never believed dream ever, but I'll never watch these commentary channels that get everything wrong due to lack of research
I don’t understand how Ethan Klein has such a huge podcast. He almost never knows what he’s talking about when commenting on things, and when he does need clarification, he gets it from that producer guy who is the biggest yes man I’ve ever seen on RUclips. And his type of humour got old 4 years ago.
His fanbase did shrink through the years from what I've heard, so I'm guessing the remainder is just people who are fans of him specifically and not the actual quality of the content.
Learning most, if not all, of the details in this situation has brought me some peace; not because I cared about anyone or anything to do with the 'controversy,' but because Dream's response reminded me of my brother. He takes the truth, and twists it to make it sound better for himself. If someone else is even remotely close to suggesting they are wrong, or did something wrong, they act as if the world is against them, and use that truth twisting skill to (try to) turn the world back on them. This Dream deal is old news at this point, but I just wanted to let you know that you really nailed the objective, 3rd-party perspective in this, and subsequently helped me overcome a barrier I felt with my brother's defensive, deflective, petty, and pointless pointless yapping. I hate feeling like I'm walking on eggshells with my brother, but I just can't come to hate him. We are all human, and make mistakes. Old habits are hard to shake. While the behavior suggests malicious intent, it often is not. In fact, I might go out on a limb and say it comes from a spoiled upbringing that felt cut short when all the love you have seems to turn toward someone else. I am in fact the second child in our family. We'd fight a lot as kids, and I didn't understand what he was so angry about half of the time. Even now, I can't figure out if he's just *looking* for things to complain about in general or not 😂 All that said, when he's not focusing on every minute detail in life that's oddly upsetting, which feels less frequent than it is, we do have understanding, informative, interesting, fun, and ultimately pointless conversations with no stress. I know that was a long-winded wall of text, that nobody on the internet needed to hear. I don't expect anyone to care, not even Karl. I just wanted to say, on the off chance you see this, Karl, thanks for doing this kind of work. I may never truly understand why people do anything, especially when it blows up in their face. However i feel one step closer to understanding idiots like that for better or worse. Really helps when trying to understand people. Aspergers makes that harder for me, after all 😅 Also, your investigative journalism is typically pretty thorough, so at this point, I think you're a trustworthy source for information. 😊
Between this video and first hearing a mention of some big cheat in Minecraft called "Dream", I've had no opinion whatsoever. I mean, my google search wasn't trained to know which "dream" to look for, and rants from most people are so padded and baseless. I had no idea where to find any info.
this vid definitely solidified my view on the situation. that the run was had the increased odds and was rightfully removed but dream himself probably forgot to remove a mod (in this case unaware of the drop rate change) for the other videos he made, never intending to actually do cheated runs.
Honestly, if Dream initial response to the Mod team wasn't as bad as it was, I honestly don't think this would have spiraled this far. A lot of people I know, me included, had a general bias against Dream due to how childish he was when being accused of cheating. It makes him look way more guilty, and generally more suspicious. This really make me realize how important first impression is. That first word or first response is the only information of you that people will use to make an early assumption about you on the subject, and it'll stick throughout as long as no decisive fact is presented to add to said assumption.
I don't think the lesson should be "Conduct yourself better". It should be "Don't be a superficial, judgmental asshole who takes everything at face value". Because those people are the real problem and the very reason all of this exploded as much as it did, not Dream. If everybody would just chill the fuck out, the world would be a nicer place. Of course Dream is partially responsible, but it always takes two to tango.
@@asteria9963 Lmao what? ‘Don’t take everything at face value’ why shouldn’t I take Dream being an absolute asshole and his Trump-like tweets at face-value? Why should I continuously give him the benefit of the doubt when he called the mod team clowns and clout-chasers over a fully correct report (knowing that his fanbase would attack anyone he pointed towards) and lied/misled a ton in his responses? Or when he banned people criticising him from his Reddit, or when he banned the word ‘Karl Jobst’ in his comments? I was a fan of his before it happened so I actually was trying to be incredibly sympathetic to him but his response to drama made it impossible for me to like him or his content anymore.
@@asteria9963 Honestly, I think there’s room for “conduct yourself better” if we apply it to dream’s fanbase, who by being overly hostile towards anyone that spoke ill of dream, probably ended up hurting dream’s image and credibility simply because no-one would want to give benefit of the doubt to someone associated with such toxic people. I think dream’s fans did more damage to his image than dream himself did.
Funnily enough, the reverse happened for me, some of my first exposure to the situation was some very heated and biased commentary channels, so I was (originally) inclined to agree with dream
This video did convince me that Dream very likely didn't know he cheated, but I wouldn't classify this video as unbiased. It is interesting that Dream is given so much grace about not knowing he cheated, but when other people obviously don't know as much information as Karl does, instead of giving them the same grace, they are considered to be lying. Also, in academia, if you cheat or plagiarize, whether intentional or by accident, it doesn't matter and you can still get kicked out.
Karl has opinions on how people should be responsible with their platforms that are, in my opinion, more than a little loftier than they should be, basically that spreading lies from liars is complicity in those lies catching on. This is evident in his videos on Todd Rogers’s many lies about his “Dragster” score and his initial video about Heritage Auctions/WATA Games as well. That being said, he applies the same standards to Dream as he did to the various RUclips commentator channels, so that alleviates a lot of my misgivings about that bias.
because karl went to the effort of waiting and hearing all sides of the arguement before posting this video 2 years after the fact, when everyone else jumped on the bandwagon and continued reiterating lies without fact checking them
His concern is how most people, famous or not, will read a couple sentences on a situation and immediately regurgitate that as undeniable fact to whoever happens to see their videos or comments. Even worse is when these same people will attempt to dive deep into the situation as if they suddenly became experts in the subject matter. Karl attempts to learn as much as he can whenever he reports on events. He may get stuff wrong but at least he tries. Most other people won't try at all aside from a sentence or two from another unreliable source. Dream is given some grace in this situation because he's the victim and Karl feels like his actions are understandable regardless if those actions were correct. Note the fact that Karl explicitly states multiple times that Dream is still the bad guy here. Most other people won't be the victim in the same events that they report on.
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
I worked really hard on this video. If you appreciate the effort I put into investigating these topics please support me by following me on twitter twitter.com/karljobstgaming and joining the discord discord.gg/EjDRvg7
No clips in this video are credited to avoid any potential backlash or drama which I disapprove of. Not all of the clips included are wrong, I AGREE with some of them. I just included clips that I thought were really relevant to the video.
Looking forward to moving on and putting this entire saga to rest!
the video is finally out, cant wait to watch
Cheers Karl. Sneed and feed.
You're an absolute legend ;)
Karl, you‘re an absolute legend!
Cheers Mate
The biggest question I have for this whole scandal is why did he have to tell us he was in a bathtub?
Now to think of it
The real questions
Don't question it
One word: Aliens
It makes him seem more sympathetic lmaooo
When that developer was asked to make a mod for content, they really nailed it...
Never said what type of content
I mean, it's like being asked to make a pool and then you make a pool... the size of the mediterranean sea
lol
@@diceman3219 pool looks fine to me, boss
Yeah he did his job so well he not only made lots of content for dream but also a lot for other creators.
"You must forget everything you know about this topic"
Way ahead of you
Can't believe he tried to sell me a slipcover
Lol
😂😂😂
What topic?
@@Sorrelhas took me a second
17:46 that aged well, because turns out it wasn’t luck at all someone noticed, it was because MinecrAvenger was also a cheater and noticed Dream had increased his odds because *he* was doing the exact same thing.
Kind-of hilarious.
Takes one to know one, innit
Pot meets kettle.
Man this is giving me flashbacks to WARZ when everyone was cheating with ESP and you could tell who was cheating because they would always LOS you to not get mowed down from 1 kilometer away. (atleast I told myself everyone was cheating because I was) Nobody thinks they are the bad guy.
Sheer luck.
"The best and worst part of learning and understanding statistics... is that the large majority of the world does not understand statistics, yet claim to."
My teacher in statistics, last year
OMG, for real. Especially frustrating to me personally has been the Covid numbers. I won't go into it because I shout into the void of the internet too much already, but the efficacy and other stats have been so much better than predicted. I especially "loved" the video with the gold blocks representing the difference between Harvard Guy and the Minecraft Mod Team.
Great teacher.
@@santaiscommunist2414 begone, Satan! We all know "Santa" is just the name u use when you try to trick us!
@@chucklebutt4470 honestly, knowing statistics should be absolutely considered as a MUST HAVE to even get your diploma in high school. Maybe not knowing how to exactly calculate but UNDERSTANDING the fundamentals, how it works, possible biases, and etc.
I'm working toward my Black Belt in Lean Six Sigma and I often find the old adage true, "People use statistics the way a drunk uses a lamppost. For support, not illumination." I also can say that the paper Dream commissioned is shite, and shows the writer's unfamiliarity of the subject at hand.
The main victim of this whole debacle appears to be Karl's faith in humanity.
I think everyone's faith in humanity decreased from this.
He cheats himself... so no. He's part of it ;)
@@crispy-k ah the classic strong but vague accusation
Let me bite
What are you talking about bud?
@@crispy-k tinfoil hats have been scientifically proven to make you lose neurons y'know
Underrated comment up there^^
Just summarizes everything in such a meta level in honestly frightening capacity.
This is the craziest amount of research poured into a single man cheating I've ever seen and I'm only 3 minutes into the video
Ikr
you ain't seen nothing yet. the rabbit-hole continues
I'm 39m in and my head is spinning
It's all about the money, honey.
This controversy is still popular, popular means clicks and views, and clicks and views mean cash in Karl's pocket. I won't say money is the sole reason Karl is still covering this, but it certainly isn't a reason to stop.
@@marcobering3945 I'm not insulting him I'm impressed by his diligence and dedication to covering this properly. If he wanted "clicks & money" he would've made a video right when the admission happened, but he didn't and waited to cover it in-depth at the risk of covering something no longer relevant. A lot of integrity and dedication on display not greed.
The fact that the person who exposed Dream was a cheater himself says it all. Cheaters are the most likely people to know if something is wrong because they themselves are doing it. My guy looked at the drops and was like “hmm, this guy is getting as lucky as me when I’m using cheats? Something is wrong” 😂😂
I wonder if the person who realized that guy was a cheater will also turn out to be a cheater lol
@@VonDenevue at this point u never know lmao
@@VonDenevue probably lmao
@@VonDenevue it's cheaters all the way down lmao
@@maxsync183 Even Karl cheated in the past.
"People have compared Dream to Billy Mitchell, but there are key differences:
Billy Mitchell is weird." I died.
@「 Deadpoppin 」 I mean, atleast he doesn't start giant lawsuits to people proving he cheated
@「 Deadpoppin 」 nah he took normal pills
@@oslo0323 he threw those away
@@oslo0323 the normal pills
@@MemeMarine his doctor gave him more normal pills
Ant Venom’s section speaking on cycling mods out of folders, I couldn't help but reflect on my 7 copies of GTA 5 that I use for content creation; I press a single button to change which folder steam looks at. Patch 1.24, Patch 1.27, Chaos, Newest Patch, Modded, OHKO, and No Cutscene skip. Many of these look identical and you'd never know which one I was using once I was in the game except for one thing. The strategy of 'Save-warping' causes your game to crash if you have mods loaded. I have a done a handful of runs on my modded version, only to crash an hour in when I tried to save warp which alerted me to my mistake.
I find your explanation for Dream’s behaviour and his modded-runs (that he inadvertently cheated) to make more sense than him intentionally cheating. My initial interest in the ‘Dream Cheating’ story was due to my reverence for the moderator’s efforts to determine his runs were cheated, and my first video was largely just expressing that. I am not a statistician, yet I read the report and felt I understood enough to believe it valid. When Dream’s report came out, I did not catch the errors caught by others. Speaking to the statisticians of the moderator’s report also helped me understand that I did not possess the level of understanding I believed.
Given this revelation I questioned why I should have any confidence that Dream cheated. I concluded I only felt confidence due to lengths the moderators went to, Dream’s poor conduct, and a bias driven by a strong dislike of those who violate rules for their own gain (which Dream was now associated with).
Now having competing statistical analyses and commentary of which I didn’t feel qualified to assess, I considered the foundation for my belief that he cheated quite poor. When he contacted me asking to be interviewed, I was confused. My videos were not exactly kind to him. If he was going to seek out a softball interview, why would he pick me? I didn’t exactly have the reputation for being a push-over.
I sat down to watched and read everything again to devise what I felt were the questions that would best enable me to get information that had not yet been presented publically. I made over 30 and I questioned whether I had inadvertently set out to confirm my original position perhaps out of bias. It is worth noting, I read many of Dream’s different social media posts while making these questions and I did see a difference between Dream’s earlier comments and later comments which, at the time, I attributed to damage control rather than growth as a person.
So I had the interview with Dream. While he didn’t always give a “perfect” answer, Dream always seemed to have an answer. He didn’t hesitate. The answer didn’t come across as scripted, but they also didn’t come across as a person struggling to think of an excuse. He came across as a likeable person, something even those who accused him of cheating continued to maintain. Almost 3 hours we were there, he didn’t complain. It only ended when I ran out of questions and it seemed like he would have been fine to be there for the rest of time, I was usually the one who said we had to move on from a question because he just wanted to plead his case as much as possible. 20% of viewers made it 15 minutes in, 10% 1 hour, 5% all the way. Few cared what he had to say, and few were interested why I changed my mind even while being perfectly fine mocking me for it.
The interview made me unsure of what to think of Dream, and being unable to believe myself qualified to feel confident in the statistics, I ended the conversation by saying something like “I am unsure, but if I had a gun to my head I wouldn’t say you cheated”. This is an expression to mean you would only make a decision if you were forced under penalty of death given your lack of confidence. It is after all “innocent until proven guilty” and I didn’t feel firm enough to confirm guilt.
After the interview, many videos were released breaking down the papers and what they actually assessed and how. This made me feel more confident that Dream cheated, as I had regained my trust in the statistics, but now I felt this trust was justified. I now had to invent reasons for myself as to how all of Dreams actions (which Karl listed in the video) made sense for a cheater to do. None of the possible explanations seemed to fit well, but the facts of the run being cheated seemed undeniable so I settled on Dream hating RNG and just wanted to speed things up to get a run he deserved. If I had to choose between that explanation and the one given in this video, that Dream unknowingly cheated, the second explanation seems to fit better with the totality of Dreams actions.
based Viper posting an essay
Your interview was one the biggest things in Dream's favor in terms of intent
For someone to confidently lie for 2 hours, and to it so well that he could convince someone else that he didn't cheat, idk, felt too unlikely
“I didn’t know anything about the situation at hand, but the serial liar sounded really convincing”
And you wonder why you get mocked? lmao
@@drewdrinks3930 YOOOO Drew! Hello! (it's FreeMiliu) fancy seeing you here you shit posting dweeb.
Well said Matt.
The various extremely conflicting circumstances created a created an air of doubt no matter where one looked.
Dream succeded at galvanizing a terrible image of himself through the totality of his actions at face value. Everything put together looked awful.
Then on the other side of the coin, your interview showed the human side of Dream. His responses were filled with passion, and what may well have been sincerity.
An immensely stark contrast from the packaged situation as a whole.
The only logical conclusion is exactly the route that you took, acknowledging that you were not an expert and your human instincts were telling you something was off. Extremely commendable.
Also, very interesting to note the timing of the interview with you. He was essentially in his damage control phase, and was around or just before the time he began walking his conviction back. Theoretically, you were speaking to a man who could have easily passed a lie detector on a subject. While at the same time being completely demonstrably guilty.
What a fascinating thought.
Keemstar criticizing Dream for his fan base has got to be one of the most laughably hypocritical things on this entire platform
Keemstar's still around?
@@pubcle unfortunately
Actually what's the deal with Keemstar? I actually don't know shit about the guy, why is he so hated? 🤔
@@pinkraven4402 lookup content cop keemstar. All you need to know
@@pinkraven4402 plenty of videos.
This has really changed my mind. I think the take that “he didn’t do it on purpose, but he’s a huge asshole” nails it very well.
true
Yeah it seem that he never intentionally cheated but still acted like a drama queen and a diva.
In order to be running a mod the mod has to be installed and activated on your game.
This is.../not/ actually difficult to do. It's not difficult to check for either. It is very definitely not beyond Dream's technical ability.
One of the basic rules of speedrunning is that you don't run mods. It's also completely trivial to rename mods so that a mod that is named 'completely innocent pov shader' is actually a cheat compilation. This is why it's a rule: There is no way the community can trust that any mod you have installed is /not/ a cheat.
So you check for this before you start the run. And you provide the screenshots of your empty mods folder in addition to your video.
Someone as accomplished as Dream not doing these things and going out of his way to not provide that info? Absolute lack of credibility. He knew he was cheating. He just didn't want anyone else to know that.
He's also 'somewhat obnoxious' of course, it's a core component of his brand, but that has little to do with his cheating methods.
@@gamlaingabrielchere1755 but it wasn't a mod but a server pugin.
@@gamlaingabrielchere1755 apparently.
If I ever get murdered I want Karl to investigate it
Vouch
Me too. I want to know the murderer's RNG chance of meet and choose me. And if he cheats I'll see him in hell.
@@battlefields2mine smh bro the rng depends on where u spawn
Especially if u spawn in Russia,your killer will definitely have a faster rng in the alleyways
Maybe post 15 you'll get lucky
Lol
@@battlefields2mine Some alleys have over 100% chances of that "killer behind the dumpster"
What you need is the game sense to know if the crackhead that just rolled the homeless dude is actually working with him.
rewatched this and the part about how sincere dream seemed really hit home. he was so convicted and convincing at times the cognitive dissonance literally felt like gaslighting (considering i knew the invalidity of his run and was unfortunately assuming malintent) i know the team tried to do everything as best as we could but i wish the whole thing went better
I'm sorry about everything that happened on twitter and yeah I agree.
I lub you geospaore
don't be hard on yourself, you and dream were both frustrated because of all this. I'm glad everyone knows what really went down now
geosquare u r cool
U good dude
"Don't tell Dream, but I managed to gain access to his emails."
You almost had me there.
Imagine tough if he actually got it' the amount of power.
I know I’m probably being rlly stupid but where did he get this info?
@@doodleshroom9101 dream gave him
@@doodleshroom9101 I also ticked at this moment but Karl specified before that Dream gave him access to a lot of things. However I still believe this kind of "humor" is a bit misplaced for a video like that and could have been said differently to avoid confusion imo.
He had me until he said later that Dream had given him access XD
For context: in sport, if someone has illegal substances in their system they receive a ban, no matter what. A lot of cases of band are when the athlete is taking a supplement that contained the substance and they didn’t know. It is the athletes responsibility to know whether or not their supplements have banned substances. In speedrunning, it should be the case that the speerunner is responsible for ensuring they are not cheating.
This may sound stupid, and it probably is, but in the athlete situation, if someone injected steroids into you while you were sleeping, how would you tell? Like if someone changed your settings while you were offline
@@legendarywiimasterYou always take a test before entering a competition to check if you have or don't have steroids. As simple as that.
You don't test AFTER you enter a competition, you do it BEFORE entering it. The same way applies to a speedrun.
@@joaquincasascortes624 well testing costs money and you also have to consider that you don’t test all the time
@@legendarywiimaster Exactly. You don't test all the time, you only test when something important comes up. Therefore, you take tests before entering a competition, doing a speedrun, etc.
And, in the case of speedruns, tests only takes a couple minutes, so there is literally no reason to not take them. It's your responsibility to be sure you never break the rules.
Hell, in MMA even using IVs for rehydration is forbidden (unless medically necessary, you need to apply for an exemption for those, though) because it helps mask some other prohibited substances
”I am the one person who knows more than everyone else on the planet. In this video we will cover _everything.”_ Very grandiose!
But boy, did he deliver on that message
Humble brag 😂
That statement got me hooked
@@masteranton5660 He tried to. He got some of the technical stuff wrong but I don't blame him for that
I enjoyed that statement immensely, and it hooked me immediately. When someone makes a ballsy-ass statement like that, there's a part of you that says, "Oh ho, I wanna see if he can back it up!"
The hyperbole was warranted, based on how much information was presented. Obviously exaggeration, but when you're telling a story, you gotta squeeze that juice, son!
This speedrun getting more cross examination than a murder trial
Well if things like this goes unchecked, it can kill the entire scene
Than the Nuremberg Trials
To be fair, the speed run community specializes in deep diving on video games + technique so it isn’t super surprising that this video was analyzed, speed runs get specific enough attention that cheating is less likely to go unquestioned
First time in the speedrun community?
Man are they big brained
@@weakspirit_ Ah, the mods must have requested for an updated analysis report. Should have seen that one coming
"People can still talk about whatever they like, but you as a viewer should never take it seriously, and never ever assume that the person you are watching has any idea what they are talking about. Unless of course that person is me." ~Karl Jobst
Sarcasm or nah?
@@LividCreature the way he handled this video says all you need to know
BIASED (But in a good way)
this is why i love karl
What I love about this quote is that you can take it both literally and sarcastically, and still come to the conclusion that it's right
Honestly I don't care if he cheated or not at this point. His attitude about the whole thing makes me roll my eyes and shake my head. A team of over 10 extremely dedicated minecraft speedrun moderators spent 2 months looking at every detail and crunching every statistic with extremely complicated math that no one on the internet corrects (and we all know the internet can never refuse such a temptation) and dream never even once thought "hmm something is really wrong here!". He hired someone, fed them data and when they came up with different numbers he didn't raise consern or ask for second opinions. No. Dream made a video smugly trying to debunk everything whilst sounding as arrogant as possible. Idc if he cheated or not. I know what kind of person he is now and I don't really want to be around those kinds of people :/ I hope Dream learns and becomes a better person. I'd like to see a legitimate speedrun with a humble and lovable Dream in the future.
I mean can you blame him? Guy is one of this quickest content creators to rise to RUclips fame and definitely didn't know how to handle controversy, on top of having ADHD, and is suddenly one day hit with claims he cheated when he has no real reason to believe he did because he knew he didn't enable any mods.
@@TheAdvertisement well nonetheless, he cheated. simple as that.
edit: ignore my messages, I now realize that arguing about someone cheating in a timed run in a block game sounds stupid
@@unwarym1190 No not as simple at that, it was entirely on accident.
@@unwarym1190 ...because it's still cheating, just on accident. The speedrun was cheated, but Dream still made it clear in his apology that it was accidental.
@@unwarym1190 someone didn't watch the video an is pretending to be smart I see
not gonna lie, when karl started talking about hacking dreams email i thought he was going to segue into a goddamn ad for an
internet protection company
I won’t lie, hacking into other people’s private email is pretty shady. Thats why you need ExpressVPN!!! Protect your data from criminals, hackers, and data harvesters! 🤣
That part was a joke since he already said in the beginning that he got touch with him and asked for the emails
I'll allow Internet Historian's ads and no one else's
Sme
@@TransRoofKorean allow oversimplified's ads as well
This video has all of the marks of a genuine, honest, unbiased, and truth-seeking endeavor. It's not omitting shit that doesn't fit with a narrative, it's not trying to smoothen out all the rough edges of the story... The fact that my opinion has gone back and forth a dozen times about all of the folks involved while I watched this video is, to me, indicative of Karl really getting to the heart of a story like this. Real life is fucking messy and complicated, but everyone wants a succinct explanation to satisfy their hunger for a simple, tweetable narrative. I have a feeling that during this investigation Karl probably had all of the realizations and back-and-forths I just had while watching this video.
I found myself thinking multiple times throughout this video, "is Karl trying to convince me this dude cheated or he's innocent??" but I think the truth is he's trying to give us all the facts, as he was able to collect them. THAT is exactly the sort of content we need, give us ALL of the evidence so we can come to our own conclusions, but the saddest part of that is the masses aren't equipped to properly absorb, analyze, and be skeptical of a raw dump of unbiased facts and evidence. Good work Karl, as usual!
I cannot agree more
agreed.
This video is certainly head and shoulders over every other video on this topic. Yet, I feel that there was quite a bit of unnecessary conjecture that detracted from Karl's objectivity. The entire portion regarding Dream's deleted mod folder sounded unconvincing to me. It's not that I believe Dream is lying, it's that Karl's analysis did not seem supported by the evidence he laid before us - there were so many alternative explanations. Of course this is a YT video, not a court submission, so I'm still quite satisfied; I simply had some critiques.
@menpower1
There were only so many Discord messages and emails to look at, so I guess that’s why that section was not as strong in the others. But that does also mean the previous explanation/consensus about that situation could also be untrue. Whatever is the truth, there were many lies spread in this controversy, and this video has the least of them, from what I’ve seen.
Although I do agree his first video on this topic was more objective.
“Billy Mitchell is weird, and he appears weird.”
True
that part was hilarious
Billy blocked me on Twitter lmao
I'm dead lol
I like how Karl says it in such a professional format like it's a key detail. Well, I suppose it is a key detail, lol.
you mean Milly Bitchell and Rodd Togers?
hasn’t been relevant for two years and this video is still a fucking banger. most objective one by far, it’s cool you actually tried reaching out to dream to hear his side and gather all the evidence he had
100 %. this was a very strange video for me. it didn't have the outcome i wished for in my low-level desires, but in my high-level desires, that is the desire to seek the truth, it had a perfect outcome. reverse porno.
this is off-topic, but where is your profile picture from?
@@oddball1336Jujutsu Kaisen probably. looks like Megumi Fushiguro
From a series of video ads for Lendo a company that compare loans. He suffers from a mental condition that makes him incapable of choosing between different alternatives. He always chooses the first option presented to him. @@oddball1336
Honestly this is the only video on this topic that should be watched (and of course the mod teams vid)
"There's no doubt Dream is skilled at what he does"
*don't use this as a segue for skillshare please don't use this as a segue for skillshare*
"If you want to learn a new skill-"
*NOOOOOOOOO*
Great vid tho
Segway*
@@50Steaks68 I am pretty sure that Segway is a vehicle and segue is when you move from one topic to the next
Sometimes I hate ytber do this, just straight forward pls
@@50Steaks68 You basically did to yourself as the creator of the segway did trying to correct the spelling.
@@SirCanuckelhead I didn't know there were 2 Segways
If I ever get sued I want Karl as my lawyer
I agree.
Karl jacobs is what a law major gamer does when he doesnt gor a job in a firm
Same
@The Ginger Fox I discovered this channel by watching other vids on dream's speedruns being fake and I shit you not, I was CONFUSED AF when I saw Karl Jobst make a vid on dream cheating as I accidentally misread as Karl Jacobs too. Karl (Jacobs) has admitted that he is a dream fan and seeing him make a vid on dream cheating, made me pause for a moment and wonder if dream had any real friends in the Minecraft community or not.
@@ILoveEvadingTax He was joking, all the emails and private conversations were provided by dream as he said earlier in the video.
"...unless, of course, that person is me."
What an absolute legend.
What an absolute power move from Karl
This was a legendary comment. I smiled soo hard.
Should make a Reddit r/karljobst and people upload memes about "what an absolute legend"
And the best part is that he's actually justified justified in saying that. Mans made a FULL LENGTH documentary about Minecraft drama lmao
Timestamp plz?
Watching in December 2023 I am struck by how well Karl handled an objectively bizarre story. I mean, at the time, you had world-class mathematics + a mask-wearing, unnamed RUclipsr + unidentified experts and developers. And I watched the whole hour-plus despite never playing Minecraft.
The mask wearing RUclipsr was Dream, the person the video is about. This was before he did his face reveal, so he's hiding his identity as it's a live action interview.
The mathematics really is simple, simple enough that anyone with minimal Minecraft and binomial probability knowledge (just some algebra formula) to do a simple computation and realize it did not happen by chance.
Though of course you can’t just give a 1 in big number, stat without using statistics to put it in perspective.
@@_mark_3814 Except that's not true, the whistleblower wasn't someone with a math degree, it was a cheater who said Dream was cheating. The mass was necessary to illustrate the absurd probabilities but even then his actual statistical drop rate wasn't even super duper insane per run, but collectively became absurd.
3:20
Karl: You DO NOT KNOW THE FULL STORY
Me watching the video a 2nd time: I am 4 parallel universes ahead of you
Oddly enough I was thinking of this
3:49 he's like did he do it intentionally 🛑🛑🛑🛑🍑🛑🛑🛑🛑🛑 ITS HIS COMPUTER HE JERKS OFF AT IT HE WATCHES RUclips ON IT HE DOWNLOADS VIDEOS AND UPLOADS VIDEOS ON IT HE PROGRAMS HIS KEYBOARD AND HIS MOUSE ON IT HE LISTENS TO MUSIC ON IT HE PROBABLY EVEN EATS AT ITS SCREEN BEFORE IT. OH AND HE DIDNT KNOW HE DOWNLOADED A MOD. THIS IS SOME HORSE 💩 LOL THERE ARE ALOT OF PEOPLE WHOD SLAP THE HELL OUTTA THIS NO FACE FRUITY BEHIND THE MASK BROMINE FOR GEORGE
H a h a h a h a h a h a h a h a h a
uhm, actually technically you'e only one parellel universe ahead of him msh
@@shadoweschatolog5912 Unless you have 4 brains working independently of each other.
this is a prime example of why in legal proceedings people use lawyers and don't usually defend themselves. knowing how to convey information truthfully (and explain that information well) is a very important skill when it comes to controversy.
Very interesting point. It also helps that the lawyer isn’t emotionally involved in the situation
@@beowulf4669 And the lawyer's paycheck is dependant so they have motive
@@HarryChafercook only thing I can think of in a pretty short amount of time is that they’re close enough for dream to be willing to forgive them
“MY BIDEO GAMES ARE LIKE THE LEGAL SYSTEM!1!1!11”
@@givemeyoureggs456 and thats a reason why their is two lawyers
"Forget every other video you have seen about this topic"
Okay!i will
"We all know that Dreams games were modified .."
who the hell is dream?
To be fair. I barely knew Dream existed before the drama to begin with XD
So it really was. Who the F is dream?
PFT_
Thank you internet person, you gave me a real life chuckle. Kudos! :D
@@redholm lmfao me too dude. I never even knew who this dream guy was. I mean shit... I never knew anything about what Minecraft was either 😂
@@redholm that was the joke
Coming here a year later and being reminded that MinecrAvenger, a now exposed prolific cheater (possibly the worst offender of all time in Minecraft), was the one who initially blew everything up with analysis of drop rates.
I mean it makes perfect sense that a prolific cheater could identify when drop rates have been increased.
This is by far the most entertaining first world problem ive ever been into. Thanks karl, thanks internet
Hahah so true
Not so much a first world problem, but a modern world problem
lol
@oof This man deadass out here saying shit like terrorism, famine and the pandemic are "good things".
@oof Fan of dead kids huh?
As someone who did and does understand the whole "client side" vs "server side" and the difference between actual mods and server plugins, I am SO happy to see this video. Karl, you always call us absolute legends, but I think it's my turn to call YOU one. I was so disappointed to see uneducated people just running with a complete misunderstanding regarding things like that, jumping on the hate train and calling it a day. This is so enlightening to see, so glad to see all the facts laid out properly, the amount of work and research you did is incredible, and I hope this will change some people's opinions on the whole thing, on Dream, and perhaps we'll all learn a lesson or two about jumping to conclusions before having all the facts, knowing the full story, and forming opinions based on ignorance and misinformation.
Hey Shivaxi
"perhaps we'll all learn a lesson or two about jumping to conclusions before having all the facts" - I'm sorry, my friend, but history of mankind stands firmly against your hopes.
@@rusty7448 yea I wish we could’ve learned this from ProJared.
Ah, the man who created Minecraft hell itself. Good to see you man
Wait I thought this was extremely patronizing. 99% of gamers don't understand the difference between server side and client side?
I'm fine with the critique that people misunderstood it, but saying "I'm the unique 1% that understands what a server is" made me cringe.
Keemstar calling out dream for having a toxic fanbase is the most hypocritical thing ever
@@Gabe_-pw7xv i dont think you remember the h3h3 situation
I mean, he's not wrong too, lol
@@Gabe_-pw7xv Bro no way ur not joking. Twitter was a battle field of slurs and doxxing after the content cops.
@@Gabe_-pw7xv I remember some of them reaching out to Ethan's sponsors to have them drop him, although Keemstar literally told them to not do that
true lmao
i'm glad i clicked on this video. i kind of didn't want to dive in because well, it's the whole dream debacle, but this was incredibly enlightening from start to finish, and i feel as though i have a far more rounded out understanding of what happened. it's no longer the black/white thinking of "did he or didn't he cheat", there's tons of nuance i didn't even know existed, and i'm grateful you took the time to so thoroughly pick through the evidence to present us with the facts.
A lot of us really need to learn to say "I don't know enough about this. I'm gonna let people who actually do deal with this."
most people covering the drama dont care about being correct, its done for the views meaning its gonna happen no matter what.
I mean Dream technically could have followed that advice lol. Hiring an astrophysicist (who has to do some additional legwork because there's a lot to cover with statistics, especially if it's not quite your specialized field) definitely didn't seem like a good application of the quote above.
@@GaussianEntity This. Asking people to “trust the experts” when Dream could’ve ended all this bullshit in a second. Literally just saying… “oh damn, I use a mod in content creation and my dev accidentally changed shit my bad” instead of WAAA MINECRAFT MODS ARE JEALOUS OF HOW GOOD I AM. Don’t act like people were wrong to call out his manipulative bullshit when they saw it.
That’s the stance I took after seeing dream’s response because like... I have no idea about statistics. I can’t look over the data and sway one way or the other. If I listened to someone else, it would just be their words against dreams. Or more accurately, against dream’s physicist. I figured I’d wait until people came to a concrete consensus but by that point I stopped caring.
Will. Never. Happen.
Look all around, and you'll see the blantant disregard of experts in most discourse as the right to free expression.
Karl just casually dropping a full length documentary, absolute legend.
The Senate will decide that
They senate will decide your fate
LMAO I just realized this is almost King of Kong lenght. Good shit.
This is more than a documentary, it's a whole investigation of a crime! This is Death Note levels of fascinating!
In the name of the gelactic empire of senate Dream you are arrested
Bruh, watching this was like watching a Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney play through
Speedrun Turnabout
@@Lelmao33 no No, Turnabout Speedrun
The Dream of a Turnabout
Edgeworth: OBJECTION! That world record is outdated, your honor.
@@GigaChad-tv7xl
Can't wait for cross examination on The Astrophysicist
@@Lelmao33 nah, cross examination of developer is currently needed because it's the developer who gave the key testimony
Whether he cheated or not, he still knew his game was modified after a certain point and said nothing for months and months while letting his fans harrass those who were proven right in the end. Thats disgusting in my view.
For me I think it depends more on how much of it he knew was going on, and how quickly after finding out about it he sent out the message to not do that.
Just in case someone missed it, the part about Karl hacking to get Dream's emails was a joke, he says at the end that Dream gave him his emails. I got a little bit confused about it myself
ohh thanks that makes sense, i was pretty confused myself
Was it? He also mentioned it at the beginning.
Probably Karl was having a hard time keeping track of all the things he mentioned or not in the duration of what is practically a documenting film.
"he gave me his email"
Proof: bro just trust me bro
2:40 and 1:06:22 are the specific times when Karl mentions it.
Yeah okay, figured since it sounded somewhat sarcastic.
So to sum it up. Dream probably didn’t intentionally cheat but his attempts to ‘debunk’ and rebuke the allegations were horrible and very suspicious.
"All the cheese holes are line up."
That's the thing i learned from Aircraft Accident Investigation, but sums this up nicely.
Doing speedruns on a server is already a bad idea, im still not convinced it was an accident. Dream probably asked karl to do this video because his video was the most popular
@@KayOScode dude it wasn't on a server,get your fucking facts right
@@zg8999 It still doesn’t make sense, why would you not at least consider the fact that you might have been using a modified version of the game while using it in many of your videos, while it was statistically proven that you were for a WHOLE YEAR. Why did dream delete his files. If he hadn’t deleted his files, Karl’s presumption of his developer causing the issue would have had actual evidence. Remember, all of this story from dream and his developer came from a year after. Dream would have had plenty of time to delete emails and old messages to make himself look better. He already deleted videos and tweets that made him look bad in the past, this would be nothing different. I would have 100% believed dream if all of this came up at the start of the controversy. But why the hell did it take a year.
@@enolopanr9820 He did consider it, did you even watch the video? He decompiled all his mod folders, but by that time the mod was an updated version without the drop rate changes. He also did mention to the moderators, when he gave them the list of mods that might have been in the folder (he had to give a list since he'd deleted the folder) and he did mention the content mod to them, but noted that there was nothing in the content mod that would modify the drop rates.
In summary, he definitely considered the possibility thoroughly, but had reason to think that the mods were biased and that he hadn't cheated. Hindsight's 20/20, it's extremely naive/ignorant to just say "oh, he should have considered it more" after the fact. He did as much as he could, given that information was being withheld from him by his dev- he decompiled stuff, told them about the content mod and what he thought would/wouldn't be affected IF it was in use, etc. Considering it more beyond that would seem unreasonable at that time, though obv not in hindsight.
very properly done video, nice work!
Love your speed runs Kosmic, keep up the great work👍🏼
TRUE LULW
Can I have an autograph
*Cosmic
I edited my comment
Looking back on this a year later, while Dream might not have cheated on purpose, he’s still definitely at fault for his behavior.
Yes, Dream had no reason to think his game could’ve been modded. However, he knew that he’d been paying somebody to modify Minecraft in the same way he had been accused of, so he should’ve asked his developer if they had modified the file to any extent around the time where the accused cheating happened.
And letting several months fly by before coming out with the truth all while the ones who were correct in their accusations were getting harassed daily by his fans is horrible.
Not to mention his knee-jerk reaction of a response to the accusations only served to further incriminate himself.
Yeah, but being a bit stupid and irresponsible is not a big deal. I don't give a sh-t. Being an actively malicious cheater is.
As a diablo 2 player who hate myself, play solo and hunt for the rarest runes. If they started dropping at a rate I never see either for myself or somebody else. I would go and see first on the forums or the patch notes if they changed the drop rate or check if there's isn't any kind of client editor. It would be more obvious to someone that speedruns diablo or at least is a pro at doing runs.
If you were frustrated for the drop rate as Dream expressed on the forums and then you get an unusual amount of drops, I would check if Mojang changed something and then if something changed with my client.
What I'm trying to say is that if somebody pointed out that my drop rate is irregular to an item that's so rare, I would agree and find out why it was so high.
@@gonzalovargasochoa4993 dream cheated on purpose. You forget a Mod when you Play on Stream and want to speedrun? BS.
He did ask the developer. They lied to him.
@@mukymakazuki2218 imagine not watching the video you're commenting under
very based. this needed to be made ty
Karl is always the most based
Based
Hello mineceaft speedrun moderator
redpill and based?
Hello
Do I play minecraft? No
Do I know who dream is? No
Did I just listen for over an hour about whether or not he purposely cheated? Yes
*Mindcraft*
@@erensahbaz457 ikr
Its winecraft
@@erensahbaz457 I mean, you have to use your head a lil to play it.
Ah yes, my favorite game: MINDCRAFT
>people don’t know what they are talking about
>shows a picture of Ethan Klein
pure kino
Cinematic mastermind Karl does it again
Oy vey
@@davidabest7195 lol
Lmaaoo
I was wondering how far id have to scroll to see this comment.
Thank you for being such a good and honest investigator. Its very clear that despite previous knowledge and biases you're able to put aside your thoughts and feelings to objectively present your findings then make conclusions off of them. You have a very nice and calming voice and Its evident how much work you put into these. I'm beyond floored, thank you
When you simp for a content creator and they ignore you lol
BYEE YOU CAN DONATE MONEY IN COMMENTS NOW??
same bro I was in my office last weekend so you could go out for a bit if you would be available and if so when you would the time to buy it from and please do so so we can gain weight
content creators put a lot of time into their work for us to watch for free. There's nothing wrong with donating them a few bucks as a thank you.
Bro there's more salt in that reply section than in the dead sea
Karl Jobst is the only person I trust about “drama” like this
I don't know about this one chief...
@@ianmeana904 yes
@@ianmeana904 why?
@@ianmeana904 why?
@@ianmeana904 why?
Keemstar at the end judging people for harassment is so ironic it's sickening
Yea, what kinda sicko would harass somebody, even unintentionally - keemstar (probably)
Ik keemstar narrates and cancels so many people without hesitation
@@billy6678 jesus you dont need to like him, but going on his kids? makes you pathetic as fuck, imagine calling him asshole but going on family, you arent better lmfao
@@pullimau8555 He wasn't attacking his children. He shamed him for not caring about his kids.
He is correct on this case
I would also want to remain anonymous if I was the "developer" who had to admit he doesn't use a version control system.
we've all done it sometimes and regretted it
heck, i regretted not pushing a bunch of Git commits on a repo for a couple of weeks when my hard drive just corrupted
Git isn't a replacement for a backup. Make backups of your important data before it's too late! HDDs are mechanical devices, they will break
@@Slada1 Git is just version control. If you only use it locally then of course you don't have any protection. But Git is also used interchangeably for github which is a file storage platform that integrates the version control that they themselves developed and I think that is what he is referring to in this case. Github would be a form of backup since their servers have redundancy.
@@ruukinen "git is used interchangeably for github" Uh... no it's not?
Git is git, github is github. I use git but have my own gitlab instance, and there's also plenty of other cloud based repositories.
What if it actually was you huh?
I’m such an old man that when I heard you say “a team of some of the best experts in minecraft speedrunning” I figured it was a room full of hyper 12-year-olds.
You can be a professional at anything really
While you were right, unfortunately that was over a decade ago. Now they’re college graduates
Either 12 year olds or neck beards with beer bellies. 🤷♀️
The difference with the statistics expert (as somebody who deals with statistics in the social and behavioral sciences), is that your credibility is *everything*. Sure, people use their consulting groups and such for credit work, but that's after those firms have built up a reputation. When I was doing my studies, even though I was with an accredited group, we would still have "Written and Compiled by: Insert Author Name Here" at the end of it. I trust you, so having heard that you saw the person's name and checked credentials, I believe they're an accredited individual. But I don't think people were wrong (Critikal for example) in their opinions because they were 100% valid, as a person in that field I had the same questions they did because it seemed to break a fair amount of standards that we use. Back to watching the rest of the video now!
Edit: Video complete, very well done Karl! You've given me a lot of new things to think about :)
to me that just seems like the expert saw what audience the report was being exposed to and decided he didnt want thousands of children knowing their details, that or the fact that they knew they couldnt do a comprehensive report and weren't confident with themselves. get paid move on type thing
@@nathanielweston1934 if he did that, which is possible, shows how he simply can't take his job seriously enough to deny a client that he knows he can't help
@@nathanielweston1934 That's a fair enough point, my mentor did a study once that addressed a sensitive socioeconomic issue at the time (mind you this was back in the 70s or 80s) and she received numerous death threats from people because she spoke the truth provided by the data, not the truth sought for by those preaching certain narratives. So there's definitely room for that to be a possibility, and I 100% see the dilemma that the Statistician was in, but it's unfortunately part of the job. It's something I was prepped for in university, it's kind of like how fireman are inherently going to be in danger of fire no matter what they do (though there are steps they can take to lessen certain aspects of the danger, it'll always be there). Just like with this, when you're a scientist (of which a Statistician would count, of course) you're always going to run the risk of public outcry. Ironically enough, the very people we're trying to help (the public) are often the first ones to come for our heads if the data doesn't tell the story they want.
Yeah, I think there’s an iffy implication others are being unfair for not having bought into the story Karl later went out of his way to verify (to himself at least). Formatting a document in LaTeX doesn’t make it legit, and since no one looking in on the situation from the outside has the info to verify who wrote the doc or what their relationship was to anyone involved, it’s absolutely valid to dismiss everything about it, even now. And it obviously isn’t anyone else’s responsibility to track down this info on their own. It’s great to be in a position in life where doing this level of research on, let’s just say, quite niche topics, is beneficial to ones work, but I think the average person is being perfectly reasonable by assuming that anonymous paper wasn’t on the up and up and moving on with their day.
@@iy42 That's another good point, people are really easily fooled by something if it "looks official enough". Like, I could write an APA paper about how putting the cereal in after pouring your milk makes you a psychopath (I could even include doctored citations, a fake bibliography, etc). None of the information inside of it would be legitimate info, but I would wager that a good chunk of people would just skim through, see that it all looks official enough, and then just take it for fact.
Dream posted it while in the bathtub because people tend to have more creative comebacks when bathing.
AHH second reply :P
@@rishabhshah104 nerd
4th
Comebacks or comeshots????
U again
'The Developer' sounds like a character from The Matrix
Lmao
There is a "Developer", kind of, in Matrix Reloaded, the guy in the room with all the TV's that reflect Neo's thoughts
To me it sounds like the ultimate uberboss for Terraria Calamity or something.
The perfect fall guy
@@alexg9601 He's already called the Architect though.
The most confusing part is that Dream is seemingly intentionally trying to make himself look even more guilty. 44:00 is a great example
"Billy Mitchell is weird, and always appeared weird. While Dream appears normal."
Dream must have been taking his normal pills
If dream is normal then America is one messed up place.
lmfaooooooo
@@uncleho1945 Isn't he from Florida where the stereotype is that crazy stuff happens all the time there? ...Yeah that would explain it actually XD
@@uncleho1945 dream I hate him even more cuzzy surpass DanTDM Subs
Well I am not quite sure, but for the first time I really didn't understand how conclusions in this video were made especially the Maths part, like I have maths in university, and probability was kinda close to what I minored in.
Then there was the part about developer not telling, which is probably the most acceptable part, BUT he deleted the mods folder himself..................
I mean this was never an innocent mistake, the question is how liable was Dream in the scenario.
Considering, destruction of pertinent evidence, lying to prosecution, trying to shift blame, admitting to lying and crime, pleading ignorance and most of all inciting violent youtube and twitter under-age hate mob.... Yeah I can assume in the American court systems he would be sentenced to the needle by now(especially Florida).......... Just saying....
This is like watching a murder documentary. Thrilling from start to end. Bravo
Surely you weren't baited into that association with the Law&Order sound and font.
Jim Can't Swim is diversifying his content a fair bit
Finally someone who addresses the mod/plugin differences, that is something that as a mod maker annoys me about the other vids
Username checks out.
Anyone else understand the difference between server side and client side mods to some extent because of playing modded terraria with friends, and understanding if you were hosting a server with some client side mods, the client side mods weren't needed by the other players?
@@Torbius a ton of people played modded Minecraft too, some minecraft mods have 100M+ downloads, it's not like minecraft modding is a niche topic either
I didn't read the response because when i finally found out about it, the pastebin got deleted, even ik the difference, a mod is something you use in your own worlds and it's downloaded onto your computer while server side plugins is basically what every non vanilla server, like hypixel have in the server
@@Torbius I don't know anything regarding terraria, but as someone who understands modding and modded other games, mods that bring visual changes to the base game are optional. And like plugins some mods only change how the server runs things like world generation as well as entity behavior and thus if it only changes how the server does things, then there is no need for connecting clients to have it installed as well. If you have any other questions feel free to ask.
After it was *mathematically proven* that the drop rates were altered, he still didn't entertain the possibility that they might have been. It's very obvious that he was just lying.
Not really, its just that he KNEW that he didn't have drop rate manipulation mods. So of course he would say he didn't. The problem is that knowledge is not fact, he thought he knew what the mod on server side did but turns out he didn't know all of what it was doing. So he was speaking from a place of ignorance and there is nothing more stubborn on the planet that an ignorant person being sure about something.
“I’m the one person who knows everything”. Oh god he is turning into Thanos
@@ExtremeMan10 it's a gamble: Karl uses his reputation to gain more attention, but i agree that it's not quite objective to say "i'm the only one that knows everything about it" and "you should not trust any other source than me" (i probably exaggerated the second quote unintentionally).
But to be fair the amount of reasearch is really far beyond any other videos on that topic, that i have seen...
@@fyfysdfsdyfdsfysdfsd I think it was a joke...
@@fyfysdfsdyfdsfysdfsd that is justified cuz of he relly knows more than anybody.
@@ExtremeMan10 ... F you really. He was making good content, even if he was controversial. Blaming ezscape and darkviper was.stupid but it is still a big loss.
@@verraque H3 deserves the dunking. Charlie's clip was included to show a legitimate concern that people had and Karl used it to segway into why nobody ever knew the astrophysicist's name. If you read Karl's pinned comment the you would know that not all clips included in the video were clips that Karl disagreed with.
This is by far the best investigation into the Dream cheating controversy 10 fold. Amazing work, Karl!
Ratio
What's up checkmark
@@aarondonnelly6887 tf you mean ratio
Your channel name is very fitting
@@bigmannn2443 its a twitter thing
I believe that this is a boy who cried wolf situation. Dream kinda dragged down his credibility by alot to the point that no one believes him
This is a really good analogy
Yep agree with you. I have no clue if he cheated intentionaly or not. WIthout all the lies Dream throwed before, I would be prone to believing this to be accident. But as you said, he cried wolf one too many time.
@@iglidor To me it seems, he had every reason to think that the moderation team was out for his blood, and was "playing dirty", so he also did that, attacking people, and spreading lies and misinformation. But in the end he ended up being the only one to lie and end up discredited.
It's almost a cautionary tale about how stooping to your opponent's level can hurt you, regardless if you win or loose, and keeping your hands clear has a merit even if you think your opponent is playing dirty.
@@EvanOfTheDarkness That is part of the problem though. The moderation team did not play dirty. They put together well reasoned and extremely detailed report for why they thought he was cheating.
Imagine if I told you that I have picture of blue sky. And you decided to not believe me. And instead of looking at the picture in my hand, you decided that I am trying to harras you and start acting agresively.
Do you see how stupid and suspicious it sounds? That is what Dream did.
He did not look at the evidence against him. He decided to hire someone to proverbialy take picture of sky to prove that it is not blue and hedged his chances by telling that guy to take the picture in night to make sure that it would not come out as blue.
That is why Dream deservers all the flak he is getting. Because it is consequence of his stupid and dishonest actions.
@@iglidor Rewatch the end of the video because Jobst addressed this. He said that many people who did have tie to the mod team directly or indirectly were telling him not to trust the mods. He even had a person at Mojang tell him this.
I think Dream had some bias against the Java mods was unwarranted, but HE was being told that the mods were being dishonest by people who the thought were credible.
I am not the best person to explain this, but rewatch the end of the video.
My favorite detail about this whole Dream Cheating Saga is an unrelated car parked outside my old apartment. It had a lot of bumper stickers of various pop culture icons: Star Wars logos, anime characters, Gir, things like that. And one of these stickers was Dream's profile picture.
Once the allegations started coming out, I noticed that the Dream sticker (and only the Dream sticker) was frayed at the edges, like someone tried to peel it off.
Enviornmental storytelling at its best.
keemstar talking about getting hate mobs sent his way like he never commanded hate mobs onto other people is just so rich
He's even encouraging it in that same video with claiming the internet wants to see him punished or whatever he said.
Though arguably it could also add weight to his words....
If he's learned anything at all from his past.
Somebody once told me that I could make some money, by bullying some people online. So I grew a gnome goatee and put on a stupid beanie and started making up some dank lies. ♪
"Why am I still getting hate" 🤣
Honestly if somebody took Keemstars kids and put them in a foster home, then threw him off a boat in the alaskan sea, the world would be better off.
But, he is completely right with the statement at the end of this video. When you are as rich , privileged, and lucky as Dream and you fuck up like this, and then play PR games (badly) - yes, people want to see you punished. Pretty simple
I've seen a lot of internet drama in my days and this is the most honest and realistic way I've seen someone with a big platform treat someone else with a big platform, EVER. "He cheated and he's entirely to blame for it, but it doesn't seem intentional and he's not a bad guy and should be allowed to make amends, and we should be mindful of how taxing it is to have to fight hundreds of lies even when you're not fighting for your innocence. He's a liar and a jackass but it's really because he's immature, not malicious." No one ever puts out such a nuanced take, honestly mad respect to Karl Jobst for doing it and putting this much work into it. You are one of the best investigative journalists out there tbh.
Edit: a lot of people in the replies need to lighten up lmao. Dream isn't a psychopathic killer who needs to be "PuNiShEd fOr HiS cRiMeS", no one is trying to give him a free pass on this, and y'all aren't doing justice to anyone by refusing to treat him like a human. It really seems like you're the malicious and hateful ones, willfully obtuse and holding on to an indefensible hatred just to be part of a thing. The proper response to Dream's toxic stans is not to be equally toxic. At this point, any drama that continues is just being manufactured by trolls.
This is the best summary of my opinions on Dream I’ve seen. He’s a liar and a jackass and his lias have seriously hurt the well-being of a lot of people, but it seems like he genuinely didn’t know the consequences of his actions until after the fact
At this point "dream bad" jokes have become the "minecraft good fortnight bad" of 2021 atleast to me.
The real bad people are the ones who did their best to hurt other people.
Dream stills being the one to blame for all the following actions, and its late to fix things, but again, dream is not a bad person as far as i can understand.
@@abakella Well he did intentionally misrepresent and omit facts to get his fan base riled up.
So while it seems entirely possible that he did not intentionally cheat, the way he behaved in the aftermath does not show him in a good light from my point of view. Because yes he did in fact create this mess.
@@voodoo1094 a man who believes he is innocent will not take kindly to what he thinks are false accusations. Can you honestly say that if your character were being publicly trashed and you didn't think you deserved it, that you wouldn't have a strong reaction and maybe even want vengeance? If Dream had turned out to be innocent, I would say he had every right to be angry and react in anger, even though someone with such a big platform should be more mature and careful. The problem boils down to the original negligence of him not making sure that he wasn't cheating in the first place.
“Dream has a habit of taking creative license with the truth” damn
so he doesn't outright lie, he just twists the truth...
I don’t get what that’s trying to say. Doesn’t matter, Reddit would find a way to make it the worst thing anyway.
@@orangejuice7247 Same thing different words
@@orangejuice7247 arguably worse
What boggles my mind, is that after all these years he is still lying about it and his fans still try to defend him. There truly is nothing stronger than a flock of ignorant fans.
I don't believe he was initially aware that he cheated, I do believe, however, that Dream has problems with accepting responsibility and being honest with his faults. In every example of him apologizing or admitting he was wrong, he tries stretching some element of it in his favor, regardless of how honest it is. In all likelihood, he's probably developed a bit of an ego, and can't allow himself to ever be 'completely in the wrong.'
I think he intentionally cheated. There are too many inconsistencies in his argument. He refused to show the moderators his mod folder, claiming he deleted it but now months later he got it back somehow. Not to mention he hired himself a "Harvard professor" to verify his claims despite refusing the moderators' proposal to get a third party involved. And he should've noticed the irregular drop rates while he was playing, especially when he was complaining about his bad rates a few days before the run.
I thinks its crazy not to know if your game is modded every game I have is modded and you would know especially if you A.were constantly changing them and B. the only game you play
@@ryanwallace6752 But consider what was stated by Karl. No one else, speedrunners and mods, noticed it was modded from those livestreams individually. It was allegedly switched to client-side without his knowledge, it' reasonable to not check that if you're only using server-side.
I'm just very confused about the situation with the mod. Like... Wouldn't the rules have a strict approved mod-list to prevent things like this happening? Using an unapproved mod, even if it was just modifications to the renderer/world loading, would still make Dream be in violation of the rules. Either the rules have a very big oversight that allows crap like this to happen, or Dream is still breaking them even if the droprate changes were unintentional.
Literally no human being can possibly think they're completely in the wrong and live with themselves.
We will always make justifications about why we did something.
"despite being the perpetrator, Dream was the last person on the internet to find out"
@oof He used up all of his IQ on his manhunt plays
Next up: Dream episode 3: "It was all a social experiment."
No even better: I am Toad Toggers
Im not one for conspiracies but my gut said this was all just a publicity stunt from day one.
"It's just a prank bro"
Sunix in geometry dash after "beating" sonic wave on 60hz be like
I'm looking forward to the season finale: "It WaS a JoKe BruH"
17:45 "Honestly it was probably sheer luck that someone ended up being crazy enough to study his streams and collate the data, and it wasn't until several days later that the speedrunner MinecrAvenger posted his findings."
Now that we have the added subplot of MinecrAvenger ALSO being a cheater, there is definitely enough sheer drama and intrigue in this insane story for Jobst to go back and make a full 90 minute documentary on the full thing from start to finish. In my honest opinion, this has been one of the most interesting stories of cheaters in the history of competitive sports... seems as though nothing in life is a coincidence.
Cheaters calling out cheaters only to get called out all at once, god the rabbit hole only goes deeper.
Ironic, by lying to defend himself, dream was ultimately his biggest attacker
"It's not the crime, it's the coverup"
How does it feel to have a cheap knock off?
“By defending yourself, you are bad. I’m so smart.”
He outsmarted himself
He almost never lied, that's the point of the video, instead he tends to twist the truth.
While everyone else throws accusations, Karl Jobst plays Ace Attorney IRL.
Ace attorney but if Phoenix actually did research
He's definetly like Miles Edgeworth.
lmao Ikr I was half tempted to play the cross examination music while playing the video
Ace Attorney Speedrun.
Yes..
"If he's actually innocent, then he did a damn good job seeming like the guiltiest person on the planet."
That's exactly why I don't believe Dream, in my opinion his actions just don't make sense if he's innocent
@@Suope That's why I believe Dream, the actions Karl Jacobs listed in his conclusion don't make sense if he's guilty and a supposed "master manipulator".
@@Suope ruclips.net/video/BemHqUqcpI8/видео.html
Here's an excellent video that portrays how people act in scenarios when they're innocent. Dream pretty much behaved exactly like Justin Kendall. His actions do make sense when you look at it from an unbiased perspective.
@@emerald3616 also, he just sounds dumb sometimes. some of his truthtwisting can easily be seen as him confusing things together or just misunderstanding them entirely.
I'll always consider the possibility that people can be dumb and mess up before I consider they might be genius psychopath manipulators
@@emerald3616 that's the opposite of logic
I would have easier time believing this was accidental if the program that they used to cheat didn't instantly get deleted from both Dream's computer and from the guy's that made it.
Then you have a pretty easy time believing it, it seems, cuz that's not what happened.
@@Zero-ef4scdid you watch the vid?
@@VentrexTheXVth did you?
@@Zero-ef4sc40:01 "3-I did not delete any of the evidance, and i was doing everything the mods asked me too, and i actually had one of the mods come on later to come and confirm that" -Dream
"Dream certainly DID delete evidance, and saying that he didnt is another lie." -Karl Jobst.
Doesnt mention the guy who made it i dont think, but dream definetly did. Hope this clears up any confusion!
@@kameronmyles2013 then you're replying to the wrong person. Tell that to the idiots claiming it got deleted from the guy who made it's folder "instantly".
Its obvious that karl created dream to become a speed runner and eventually create controversy so he could get those juicy views
I agree.
True Karl made him in a lab. I saw it with my own eyes!
@@randyortonsbulge That's why he's a white blob
This implies that Karl is worthy to be called "daddy," by Dream.
"It's all part of the plaaaaan." *rubs hands together ominously*
Jesus christ... Milly Bitchell is so screwed.
Another masterpiece from KJ.
Milly Bitchell bruh I’m dying
Who is milly bitchell?
Oi, i'm gonna sue your ass! :D
@@pan3221 Billy Mitchell
@@glemonsbhatkin514 Did you just happen to have the display name "Milly Bitchel" already, or did you change it just now, just so you could comment this? Bc either way is amazing
The developer not tracking version history is really odd to me, as version control tools such as git are industry standards. It would however be consistent with the developer not revealing his mistakes, as such behavior is incredibly unprofessional.
Most people I seen in the "industry" (MC mods) don't use git when get hired to do a mod, there is no reason to.
Yeah, this entire situation seems like an honest mistake that was blown incredibly out of proportion because literally nobody was acting mature or professional
I think it’s more common than you might think. Anecdotally at least, I’m aware of similar frustrating behavior from developers that were contracted with the company I work for with lots of money on the line. I think it’s very competitive, so developers will try to protect themselves when something goes wrong. Even if, or especially, when it is their fault. Unprofessional, absolutely. Also completely understandable human behavior.
Depends on how big the mod is. If I and only I were working on a dozen or so files, I wouldn't see a reason to set up a repo.
Idk... If I was a developer that caused massive drama which severely damaged someone's reputation, I would be scared to shits that Dream was going to sue me. Them not publicly apologising and explaining the whole issue and leaving it all on Dream (and Karl) is very very suspicious.
I really appreciate channels like these that do an actual deep dive and have journalistic integrity. A lot of commentary youtubers are so quick to make a video, they don't give as much care about uncovering what actually happens in these kind of situations.
"I have an amazing community"
[Mass Effect music starts]
Karl: This is false.
LMAOOOO
Lmao
Oh, come on. What's wrong with wanting to murder your favorite minecrap streamer and turn them into a chair?
@Metaph bro the fuck does this even mean?
The only thing worse than Dream digging himself into more and more holes, ...is Keemstar opening his mouth with the intention to feign intelligence.
Involving Keemstar in anything is never a good idea.
"They study a situation for thirteen minutes and then proceed to act like they're an expert"
Welcome to H3 and every other such reaction channel ever.
Let's be real here. The very large majority of channels that were discussing the topic didn't really care if he cheated or not. It was just a hot topic that raked in easy views so for them it's a free paycheque.
And Reddit
I absolutely love H3 but the Dream segment was short and Ethan even kind if admitted he didn't know much about the game.
"You don't even have to think about it dude"
- Ethan
remember when they actually research stuff before commenting about it?
i remember
I think it is likely that he didn’t originally realise he was cheating but is it hard to believe he never even considered the possibility after people called him out
It's funny how Ethan is a perfect example of being so incompetent on a topic but completely confident hes right. Literally on the same level as a flat earther...
I miss when Ethan made funny videos. Every time he talks about a serious topic the braincells of thousands deteriorate.
@@Prudester He's not even dumb but he often says really stupid shit unironically. It's like a gun expert trying to be a computer software engineer! And it's sad to see...
Dude don't discredit flat earthers, even they have more modern views on women than "women need to be conquered, it's in their nature"-Ethan.
Same could be said for dream and his probability skills. This whole story stems from ignorant people who think they know way more than they do.
Thing is, that the only difference between Ethan and the many, many, many random people who have been writing comments on videos and streams on this topic since the controversy started, is that Ethan makes videos. Like Karl said in this video, the larger your audience is, the more careful you have to be with what you say. It's not that what he said was dumber or more arrogant, than what many others were saying.
If Dream was defending OJ he woulda got 20000 years no parole.
Don't you mean 7.5 TRILLION years?
What happened with him
I mean that would of been fair since OJ did it.
@@qsunn2185 OJ Simpson was an American Football star that got put on trial for the death of his girlfriend. The trial was very controversial and ended with OJ being aquitted on all counts.
orange juice or oj simpson/
Dream is like the criminals in Ace Attorney when they change up their entire testimony
We're here talking about Dream, but no one's mentioned that clip of Keemstar's overwhelmingly successful speedrun of sounding like a moron.
Which one?
@@deathhimself1427 the one where he practically says "Dream should not apologise and try to improve himself, he should just beat himself up forever and be guilty"
@@Retsbol It was a joke
@@deathhimself1427 nice
And that’s a speedrun we know for sure he didn’t cheat in.
What Keemstar said... is very ironic coming from him.
Technically he's right, but he's also completely unaware that it also applies to himself.
I mean most of the controversy comes down to that line of "people want to see you fall". It's crabs in a bucket, it's a fanbase hating their most dominant individual.
People not knowing the difference between plugins and mods really shows how few of us actually set up our own mc servers as kids.
Bro you dont even have to own one, i just saw some admin say "we gonna add a plugin", and correlate things when you notice you dont have to install anything for it to work
yep. probably never even heard of spigot
Smh
@@jamesboyce7467 RIP bukkit
yeah i honestly find it kinda shocking that the vast majority have no clue. but then again i guess the vast majority are playing on Bedrock these days.
The biggest red flag for me is that Dream didn't check if the mod was active when asked before going through everything he did. He spent so much time and money trying to discredit the moderators only to turn around and say "Oops, guess I did cheat by accident."
I mean, to be fair he was adamant that the mod wasn't and couldn't be active and later became frustrated. Adamantly frustrated people are as often their own worst enemies than their worst opposition.
What’s the bet Billy Mitchell is gonna sue Karl again for a 1 min appearance in a 75 min video
DON'T GIVE HIM IDEAS! XD
I’ll bet you whatever the amount he will sue him by that he will get sued
@@DoctorBleach1 hopefully 0 but probably $10000
Ah sh*t here we go again
@@DoctorBleach1 i'm not sure any human on earth has that amount
Thank god someone finally called out the commentary channels clearly just trying to leech off the drama
Fireborn isn't a commentary channel o_o
these days people see a scandal like that and go bananas and try to milk as much views as possible when they now nothing about the matter.
Like dream response was bad, but they are worse.
Have no idea what they are talking about yet declare results.
fact, these channels will jump on any kind of drama and give their worthless opinion about it, I've never believed dream ever, but I'll never watch these commentary channels that get everything wrong due to lack of research
This!
I don’t understand how Ethan Klein has such a huge podcast. He almost never knows what he’s talking about when commenting on things, and when he does need clarification, he gets it from that producer guy who is the biggest yes man I’ve ever seen on RUclips. And his type of humour got old 4 years ago.
twitter. his personality is twitter.
His fanbase did shrink through the years from what I've heard, so I'm guessing the remainder is just people who are fans of him specifically and not the actual quality of the content.
Especially when he makes retarded comments like “You don’t have to think bro” (just do what daddy government tells you and question nothing).
he's one of the biggest slimeballs i've ever seen, genuinly revolting that people actually like him
I used to like him, but his podcasts really made me hate him lol. It’s impressive how often he gets things wrong
Learning most, if not all, of the details in this situation has brought me some peace; not because I cared about anyone or anything to do with the 'controversy,' but because Dream's response reminded me of my brother.
He takes the truth, and twists it to make it sound better for himself.
If someone else is even remotely close to suggesting they are wrong, or did something wrong, they act as if the world is against them, and use that truth twisting skill to (try to) turn the world back on them.
This Dream deal is old news at this point, but I just wanted to let you know that you really nailed the objective, 3rd-party perspective in this, and subsequently helped me overcome a barrier I felt with my brother's defensive, deflective, petty, and pointless pointless yapping.
I hate feeling like I'm walking on eggshells with my brother, but I just can't come to hate him. We are all human, and make mistakes. Old habits are hard to shake. While the behavior suggests malicious intent, it often is not. In fact, I might go out on a limb and say it comes from a spoiled upbringing that felt cut short when all the love you have seems to turn toward someone else. I am in fact the second child in our family. We'd fight a lot as kids, and I didn't understand what he was so angry about half of the time. Even now, I can't figure out if he's just *looking* for things to complain about in general or not 😂
All that said, when he's not focusing on every minute detail in life that's oddly upsetting, which feels less frequent than it is, we do have understanding, informative, interesting, fun, and ultimately pointless conversations with no stress.
I know that was a long-winded wall of text, that nobody on the internet needed to hear. I don't expect anyone to care, not even Karl. I just wanted to say, on the off chance you see this, Karl, thanks for doing this kind of work.
I may never truly understand why people do anything, especially when it blows up in their face. However i feel one step closer to understanding idiots like that for better or worse. Really helps when trying to understand people. Aspergers makes that harder for me, after all 😅
Also, your investigative journalism is typically pretty thorough, so at this point, I think you're a trustworthy source for information. 😊
This is a super interesting deep dive, definitely made me reevaluate my opinions on the situation.
Between this video and first hearing a mention of some big cheat in Minecraft called "Dream", I've had no opinion whatsoever. I mean, my google search wasn't trained to know which "dream" to look for, and rants from most people are so padded and baseless. I had no idea where to find any info.
@@liennen5868 I've followed most if not all of this drama and basically all of the information that's important is in this video.
this vid definitely solidified my view on the situation. that the run was had the increased odds and was rightfully removed but dream himself probably forgot to remove a mod (in this case unaware of the drop rate change) for the other videos he made, never intending to actually do cheated runs.
Dream didn’t deserve to be cancelled in the first place.
oh hui louis
Honestly, if Dream initial response to the Mod team wasn't as bad as it was, I honestly don't think this would have spiraled this far. A lot of people I know, me included, had a general bias against Dream due to how childish he was when being accused of cheating. It makes him look way more guilty, and generally more suspicious. This really make me realize how important first impression is. That first word or first response is the only information of you that people will use to make an early assumption about you on the subject, and it'll stick throughout as long as no decisive fact is presented to add to said assumption.
I don't think the lesson should be "Conduct yourself better". It should be "Don't be a superficial, judgmental asshole who takes everything at face value". Because those people are the real problem and the very reason all of this exploded as much as it did, not Dream. If everybody would just chill the fuck out, the world would be a nicer place. Of course Dream is partially responsible, but it always takes two to tango.
@@asteria9963 the lesson can be both of those.
@@asteria9963 Lmao what? ‘Don’t take everything at face value’ why shouldn’t I take Dream being an absolute asshole and his Trump-like tweets at face-value? Why should I continuously give him the benefit of the doubt when he called the mod team clowns and clout-chasers over a fully correct report (knowing that his fanbase would attack anyone he pointed towards) and lied/misled a ton in his responses? Or when he banned people criticising him from his Reddit, or when he banned the word ‘Karl Jobst’ in his comments? I was a fan of his before it happened so I actually was trying to be incredibly sympathetic to him but his response to drama made it impossible for me to like him or his content anymore.
@@asteria9963 Honestly, I think there’s room for “conduct yourself better” if we apply it to dream’s fanbase, who by being overly hostile towards anyone that spoke ill of dream, probably ended up hurting dream’s image and credibility simply because no-one would want to give benefit of the doubt to someone associated with such toxic people. I think dream’s fans did more damage to his image than dream himself did.
Funnily enough, the reverse happened for me, some of my first exposure to the situation was some very heated and biased commentary channels, so I was (originally) inclined to agree with dream
The most controversial take of all: nuance and multiple shades of grey
This video did convince me that Dream very likely didn't know he cheated, but I wouldn't classify this video as unbiased. It is interesting that Dream is given so much grace about not knowing he cheated, but when other people obviously don't know as much information as Karl does, instead of giving them the same grace, they are considered to be lying. Also, in academia, if you cheat or plagiarize, whether intentional or by accident, it doesn't matter and you can still get kicked out.
Not really sure why you're comparing speedrunning to academia.
@@TheAdvertisementSpeedrunning is treated as an important and somewhat official ‘sport’, so it somewhat relates to academia and falsifying results.
Karl has opinions on how people should be responsible with their platforms that are, in my opinion, more than a little loftier than they should be, basically that spreading lies from liars is complicity in those lies catching on. This is evident in his videos on Todd Rogers’s many lies about his “Dragster” score and his initial video about Heritage Auctions/WATA Games as well.
That being said, he applies the same standards to Dream as he did to the various RUclips commentator channels, so that alleviates a lot of my misgivings about that bias.
because karl went to the effort of waiting and hearing all sides of the arguement before posting this video 2 years after the fact, when everyone else jumped on the bandwagon and continued reiterating lies without fact checking them
His concern is how most people, famous or not, will read a couple sentences on a situation and immediately regurgitate that as undeniable fact to whoever happens to see their videos or comments. Even worse is when these same people will attempt to dive deep into the situation as if they suddenly became experts in the subject matter. Karl attempts to learn as much as he can whenever he reports on events. He may get stuff wrong but at least he tries. Most other people won't try at all aside from a sentence or two from another unreliable source.
Dream is given some grace in this situation because he's the victim and Karl feels like his actions are understandable regardless if those actions were correct. Note the fact that Karl explicitly states multiple times that Dream is still the bad guy here. Most other people won't be the victim in the same events that they report on.