Great vid! I used to be one of the "risers are stupid" guys. Until i really started pushing myself to get faster at multiple target transitions. I noticed my reticle kept ending up towards the top of my lens and figured out i was naturally trying to raise my head up more to transition my eyes to the next target faster. That's when I realized I had been the idiot for bashing on taller mounts. Now i run a unity fast mount under a holosun 403 and ill never go without this optic height on any cqb gun again. I think most people that bash higher mounts are like i used to be. They haven't reached a level to understand the benefits and how much difference it really makes. Oh and if anyone is looking into this... this optic height combined with the magpul str stock is outstanding. The width and angle of the top of the str creates a perfect chin weld.
The zeroing targets on your website are amazing. All the different setups and the fact that they're for use at 10 yards is exactly what I've been looking for. Was just about to start trying to do the calculations to make my own, so you saved me a ton of time!
At 6'2 with sloping shoulders, higher mounts allow me to be more comfortable and not scrunched up constantly while doing MOUT or CQB, it also puts the mass of the rifle down where it should be instead of floating above my shoulder, again unless I do the commando crunch. Having to bury myself down to get low behind the sights also slows me down. Height over bore is overcome by changing my zero, and even with a standard 2.6 OB [absolute co-witness] you have to train for the difference so either way you have to train for it. Personally with a 3.3 - 3.6 OB my zero at 50-75 lends a PBR in regards to elevation out to 300 with adjusting for windage as normal. Sloppier cheek weld could result in poorer accuracy, but then a cheek riser is easy enough to put on or jerry rig. Personally the improvements inside 100 far outweight the slight loss beyond in most circumstances.
I didnt think it was normal to want a truck gun other than a pistol, until I looked into it lol. Now I ride with my M&P regularly, and legally. Booyah red states.
Dont know if you already decided, but the aimpoint pro or comp m4 is a good solution for this. A $40 spacer lets you mess around with height rather than having to buy a whole new mount.
What woman should I marry? But seriously, you can try them both and pick the one that works best with you. Optics planet does free shipping and free returns.
Question, i do not have acess to a printer. How much higher should my point of aim be than my point of impact for the unity mount for a 50 yard zero at either 10 or 25 yards, amd what would the holds be? I cannot find this info anywhere
What’s the height on the first two? Kind of confusing for newbies when you go from calling them absolute to 1/3 then switch to 1.93 and 2.33. Not a consistent unit of measure between the first two and last two. In other words what is the height in inches in the first two so that we have a frame of reference that we can properly compare to the 1.93/2.33
@@KineticConsulting Not sure what's funny about that. I know what order they are. I never questioned the order. It's quite apparent from your video on the order. The question was, what is the height of the first two since they were never mentioned. Think of it this way: when you call it "absolute" and "lower 1/3" a newbie has no frame of reference of what that means in terms of their actual height in inches, so they can't picture that in their head. When you call the others 1.93 and 2.33, well we all know what that means because we have all been taught measurements since we were a kid and immediately can gauge what 1.93 inches is and what 2.33 inches is. Thanks for answering.
does the problem of passive nv aimning only apply to the micro aimpoints? If i were to get a comp m4 would it be more forgiving for night vision/ gas mask aiming?
sorry im just a beginner but does it seem weird to have the red dot be NOT where you intend the bullet to go (like anything except for absolute cowitness)?
If you're shooting close distance, or at a distance that you zeroed in for there isn't really a reason why you should have the dot not where you want your bullet to go. The only reasons I can think of where you would ever do that is: first, if you're actively suppressing someone's movements with fire - in which case you're just shooting in their general direction and it doesn't matter where you're precisely aiming at. And second, if you're shooting at a target that is at a distance that you are not zeroed in for - in that case you might want to aim your gun higher or lower in order to adjust for the distance.
@@Xyzanimator Thanks. But what Im saying is everybody is saying to use the lower third cowitness so the red dot is above the center post of the front sight, right? But then when I shoot, that bullet is going where that center post is in the sight, not where the red dot is, right? So like if Im trying to shoot somebody in the chest, do I aim the red dot at their head? And maybe not even necessarily there because if they’re closer I would want to place the red dot on their neck, and if their further away I would want to place the red dot above their head (and then am I supposed to calculate the target’s distance to figure out how high above the target that red dot is supposed to be in my view)? As opposed to absolute cowitness in which case it would line up perfectly. Ya know what Im saying?
@@TomAZ1984 So on the highest mount in the video it’s measured at only around 2.33 inches which isn’t really something to be that worried about. It wouldn’t really effect shot placement like you say that much unless your trying to hit someone’s head which is only applicable in certain situations. In that case, all you do is aim about ~3-4 inches (due to height over bore) higher from where you want to hit. Because the torso is so large ~3-4 inches really won’t make a difference if you’re shooting in the center of the A zone of the target which is about 9 inches long. Hope this helps!
Regardless of sight height the bullet is going to arc and intercept the sight or dot at 1 specific point then it is going to drop until it hits the ground. It does not travel in a straight line so say you had a lower 1/3 your dot and your front sight would be sighted in separately. The bullet will only go where it is intended at 1 specific distance that you sighted it in at. Its all physics. If you sight it in at 100 yards everything that you hold that dot on will hit low and everything past 100 yards will hit low. Only at 100 will it hit that point of aim. You as the operator have to compensate for every other distance.
quickish question....doing those close range shots within 10ish yards whats your hold? is a couple inches over where your trying to hit a pretty solid estimate for height over bore?
I love 1.93 on my lpvo and dots but with the lpvo in prone its absolutely miserable. As much as I love it I cant do prone with it very well at all so I'm thinking about dropping another 300 on a 1.7 or 1.5 mount. Just because of the damn prone issue.
Thanks for this informational video keeping the focus on height and including the numbers. I'm curious what your targets for different offsets look like.
I just got an AR pistol and a trijicon MRO. I have no clue what riser to get. The cheapest thing possible that isn’t a turd. I want 1/3 cowhitness. Any help?
can buy different heights! absolute with matchup with red dots and shit. lower and higher. i got troy minis that are lower than my optic...and an eotech thts level with irons. then u can buy 1.93s tht will go over a pec15
@@KineticConsultingthank you. Was just coming to research same answer. I’ve consistently used Scalarworks LEAP and Aimpoint T2 at 1.93 for longer barrels. Wasn’t sure about MPX K.
I can't help but laugh at the fact that people use higher mounts. I constantly hear about neck pain and shoulder pain from using absolute cowitness and lower one third, and I've experienced it my self from trying them. Then i see people making higher mounts like the 1.93, 2.26 and 2.33, and I just lose my shit with laughter. Mainly because everyone makes fun of my Carry Handle Mount. It boggles the mind sometimes.
@@BananarchOfTedKacistan for me the main reason I went to carry handle mount was because I always have a gas mask as part of my kit. With it I solved my problems.
You know I basically always used lower 1/3! A few months back I got a spark AR that had the true co-witness as an option. I put it on a 7.5" 7.62x39 that I wanted to keep very compact. I actually prefer it. That being said, I'm not a big guy. I definitely see the benefit of a taller mount in certain cases. It all depends on your goals. I really prefer the fact that hold over is shrunk enough that it is really a none issue.
What type of gun would a half inch mount be used for? I see a UTG one for $2.97($10 msrp) at JoeBobOutfitters. Just curious. Used for Shotguns? 10/22s? AKs? Idk. Please help, its been driving me nuts.
@@KineticConsulting Theres a big difference between UTG and UTG Pro(but theyre owned & operated by same people). Standard UTG is cheaper quality stuff pretry much made for Airsoft. While UTG Pro is made with great quality and industry standard materials. I have had fantastic luck with every single UTG Pro product I have gotten. Honestly impeccable quality But I will say that they do have some products that are not the greatest, but that can be said about almost any company. I own 2 of their MilSpec stocks. I also own, 1 one inch riser/optic mount. An AR Carry handle sight. A couple Receiver Extensions(Buffer tubes). A Carbine Quad Rail. And my absolute favorite of them all, I recently got a UTG PRO AR15 ULTRA SLIM 15" Handguard in Black/Blue(they also make them in Black/Red & just Black) I highly recommend you go check out this rail. It is literally the most beautiful handguard I have ever seen and I have built about 10 ARs. Bottom line, please dont judge UTG PRO products because of UTG products. Its a whole different world of quality. Im just trying to help. Just trying to give credit where credit is due. Trust me man, I have (typically) expensive taste in firearms. The UTG Pro products actually scratch that itch. The UTG Pro Handguard I bought just went on a $1500 AR. Its just perfect. Anyhoo, God bless you my friend. Its a pleasure to meet you. Im glad I found your channel.
@@KineticConsulting I know it could be used for AR rails and sights etc buddy, Im just mainly curious what the majority of people would probably use them on. Who knows. Majority of peeps probably use em on ARs, because maybe they dont know much about risers or theyre just running a red dot & no irons. So it may seem right to them. Who knows, I will shut up now...
Need to use a riser. Now you’re getting into adding a lot of shit. If you’re not running an offset micro or rds you can use offset irons like Dueck Defense RTS or Troy offset folding sights. Or just make sure you have QD mounts.
I have the Colt M4 Le6920 and the 1 inch riser was too tall for 1/3rd co witness and unusable for absolute. I got another measuring .5 inch on the way and If I can remember will come post results.
I guess a abnormally high mount is retarded to me, I believe one of the most common fighting positions is the prone, and it wouldnt be bad to be able to use your back up iron sights in case your primary goes down, just spit balling
Might be true in the military but civilian and police applications don't typically call for full prone. But youre still not wrong. if it does happen it'll be more difficult
Don't buy a shit optic and the need for irons drop drastically. Also if you're like me and use a good ir/vis laser or an offset red dot then the need for irons dies further unless you really want them.
Great vid! I used to be one of the "risers are stupid" guys. Until i really started pushing myself to get faster at multiple target transitions. I noticed my reticle kept ending up towards the top of my lens and figured out i was naturally trying to raise my head up more to transition my eyes to the next target faster. That's when I realized I had been the idiot for bashing on taller mounts. Now i run a unity fast mount under a holosun 403 and ill never go without this optic height on any cqb gun again. I think most people that bash higher mounts are like i used to be. They haven't reached a level to understand the benefits and how much difference it really makes. Oh and if anyone is looking into this... this optic height combined with the magpul str stock is outstanding. The width and angle of the top of the str creates a perfect chin weld.
The zeroing targets on your website are amazing. All the different setups and the fact that they're for use at 10 yards is exactly what I've been looking for. Was just about to start trying to do the calculations to make my own, so you saved me a ton of time!
"Why the long face?"
"Peak optic height"
At 6'2 with sloping shoulders, higher mounts allow me to be more comfortable and not scrunched up constantly while doing MOUT or CQB, it also puts the mass of the rifle down where it should be instead of floating above my shoulder, again unless I do the commando crunch. Having to bury myself down to get low behind the sights also slows me down.
Height over bore is overcome by changing my zero, and even with a standard 2.6 OB [absolute co-witness] you have to train for the difference so either way you have to train for it. Personally with a 3.3 - 3.6 OB my zero at 50-75 lends a PBR in regards to elevation out to 300 with adjusting for windage as normal.
Sloppier cheek weld could result in poorer accuracy, but then a cheek riser is easy enough to put on or jerry rig. Personally the improvements inside 100 far outweight the slight loss beyond in most circumstances.
Absolute is perfectly comfortable when wearing a carrier for me. My truck gun I went 1.93.
I didnt think it was normal to want a truck gun other than a pistol, until I looked into it lol.
Now I ride with my M&P regularly, and legally.
Booyah red states.
I can’t decide if I should go with lower 1/3 or 1.93 .
Dont know if you already decided, but the aimpoint pro or comp m4 is a good solution for this. A $40 spacer lets you mess around with height rather than having to buy a whole new mount.
What woman should I marry? But seriously, you can try them both and pick the one that works best with you. Optics planet does free shipping and free returns.
goddamn your intros are loud
Perfect timing; I've been needing a new mount. I'm running an absolute now but need to be able to shoot with a gas mask. I'm thinking 1.93.
Glad it helped man
Won’t a cheek riser plate perfectly solve the neck issue related to staying prone on 2.33 for prolonged period of time?
Possibly, but that depends on your head/neck. Everyone's different.
That intro... It was Spicy! Ole!!👍
Scalarworks 1.93 or Unity fast mount. Which one sits lower?
The scalar. If you look on the individual websites they will tell you the heights of their mounts
I have a unity fast mount and it’s a little goofy. Getting use to my holds. But with my nv it’s nice
What’s your zero?
@@essray 75 yards keeps me on a 6 inch gong till 250 yards.
@@essray it’s a 13.7 but a friend has an 11.5 with similar results with that zero.
@@ericdoubleu5390 Where POI at 25 yards with that zero?
@@izatt82 about three inches low
Question, i do not have acess to a printer. How much higher should my point of aim be than my point of impact for the unity mount for a 50 yard zero at either 10 or 25 yards, amd what would the holds be? I cannot find this info anywhere
Get a 50 yard zero, move to 10 yards, take shots, observe the offset. It'll be between 1-2.5 inches depending on range and mount.
Would the Scalar Works 1.93 allow you to see through to the Knight's micro sights?
I'm not sure. I haven't tried it but if the knights iron is 1.5 height then probably not.
What are your thoughts on mounting heights for offset RDSs?
I prefer them at a 1.93 height. I want them as high as I use red dots
Nice video! I run a lower 1/3 currently......now I may try a taller one! Thanks for the content!
Glad it helped
I may give thr ADM a try. I always thought the tall bois were mainly for NV use. Great video. You make your points very comprehensible.
Any need to raise red dots like eotechs amg-uh1s etc and if so what are some good options to do so?
Yes, I use the Unity Tactical fast riser
I see your Shivworks Clinch Pick in the screen shot.
Yep
What’s the height on the first two? Kind of confusing for newbies when you go from calling them absolute to 1/3 then switch to 1.93 and 2.33. Not a consistent unit of measure between the first two and last two. In other words what is the height in inches in the first two so that we have a frame of reference that we can properly compare to the 1.93/2.33
Lol you just said the order of how they are. Absolute is 1.5, 1/3 is 1.7, 1.93 and 2.33 are what they are. They are all measured from the rail.
@@KineticConsulting Not sure what's funny about that. I know what order they are. I never questioned the order. It's quite apparent from your video on the order. The question was, what is the height of the first two since they were never mentioned. Think of it this way: when you call it "absolute" and "lower 1/3" a newbie has no frame of reference of what that means in terms of their actual height in inches, so they can't picture that in their head. When you call the others 1.93 and 2.33, well we all know what that means because we have all been taught measurements since we were a kid and immediately can gauge what 1.93 inches is and what 2.33 inches is. Thanks for answering.
does the problem of passive nv aimning only apply to the micro aimpoints?
If i were to get a comp m4 would it be more forgiving for night vision/ gas mask aiming?
It applies for all optics but more so for the smaller ones like the T1 size.
Man, I can't wait until NV tech gets a lot smaller.
Loving 1.93”
sorry im just a beginner but does it seem weird to have the red dot be NOT where you intend the bullet to go (like anything except for absolute cowitness)?
If you're shooting close distance, or at a distance that you zeroed in for there isn't really a reason why you should have the dot not where you want your bullet to go. The only reasons I can think of where you would ever do that is: first, if you're actively suppressing someone's movements with fire - in which case you're just shooting in their general direction and it doesn't matter where you're precisely aiming at. And second, if you're shooting at a target that is at a distance that you are not zeroed in for - in that case you might want to aim your gun higher or lower in order to adjust for the distance.
@@Xyzanimator Thanks. But what Im saying is everybody is saying to use the lower third cowitness so the red dot is above the center post of the front sight, right? But then when I shoot, that bullet is going where that center post is in the sight, not where the red dot is, right? So like if Im trying to shoot somebody in the chest, do I aim the red dot at their head? And maybe not even necessarily there because if they’re closer I would want to place the red dot on their neck, and if their further away I would want to place the red dot above their head (and then am I supposed to calculate the target’s distance to figure out how high above the target that red dot is supposed to be in my view)? As opposed to absolute cowitness in which case it would line up perfectly. Ya know what Im saying?
@@TomAZ1984 Here, try watching this: ruclips.net/video/aBVqxJ58kxs/видео.html I think it will help you understand what people are talking about.
@@TomAZ1984 So on the highest mount in the video it’s measured at only around 2.33 inches which isn’t really something to be that worried about. It wouldn’t really effect shot placement like you say that much unless your trying to hit someone’s head which is only applicable in certain situations. In that case, all you do is aim about ~3-4 inches (due to height over bore) higher from where you want to hit. Because the torso is so large ~3-4 inches really won’t make a difference if you’re shooting in the center of the A zone of the target which is about 9 inches long. Hope this helps!
Regardless of sight height the bullet is going to arc and intercept the sight or dot at 1 specific point then it is going to drop until it hits the ground. It does not travel in a straight line so say you had a lower 1/3 your dot and your front sight would be sighted in separately. The bullet will only go where it is intended at 1 specific distance that you sighted it in at. Its all physics. If you sight it in at 100 yards everything that you hold that dot on will hit low and everything past 100 yards will hit low. Only at 100 will it hit that point of aim. You as the operator have to compensate for every other distance.
Thoughts on the unity tactical fast mount?
I love it. When this was made they hadn't released it yet.
@@KineticConsulting do you prefer the scalar works or unity mount?
@@somethinganything4864 I prefer the Unity. It wasn't in my hands yet for this video
quickish question....doing those close range shots within 10ish yards whats your hold? is a couple inches over where your trying to hit a pretty solid estimate for height over bore?
Depends on the mount height. You're best to go test it out based on what you're using and your zero.
@@KineticConsulting gotcha. wanted to check out a 1.93 mount...ill figure it out lol
I found that using a taller "F" marked front sight base puts a 1/3 sight base at absolute. Going to try the 1.93.
I love 1.93 on my lpvo and dots but with the lpvo in prone its absolutely miserable. As much as I love it I cant do prone with it very well at all so I'm thinking about dropping another 300 on a 1.7 or 1.5 mount. Just because of the damn prone issue.
I got a 30mm FDE 1.7 badger mount I’m looking to get rid of
Thank the Lord I found this video which led me to your site to get your zero targets for my unity mount
What height do you suggest for clearly not having your laser in your sight picture?
Usually 1.93 or higher
@@KineticConsulting thanks.
Thanks for this informational video keeping the focus on height and including the numbers. I'm curious what your targets for different offsets look like.
Depends on your zero, but up close there is a difference in mechanical offset.
I just got an AR pistol and a trijicon MRO. I have no clue what riser to get. The cheapest thing possible that isn’t a turd. I want 1/3 cowhitness. Any help?
Adm makes a 1/3 mount that is good to go
lol How do all you people shoot iron sights? “Uhhhhh My neck is scrunched!!” 😂😅
Can anyone answer, at what height do you lose your ability to use standard back up iron sights?
Depends on the mount. Some have pass through to see the sights. Unity Tactical fast is one of them that has its own irons
can buy different heights! absolute with matchup with red dots and shit. lower and higher. i got troy minis that are lower than my optic...and an eotech thts level with irons. then u can buy 1.93s tht will go over a pec15
What’s the best for SIG MPX-K? as it doesn’t comes with iron sight
Depends on what you plan on using. I like 1.93 on my mpx
@@KineticConsultingthank you. Was just coming to research same answer. I’ve consistently used Scalarworks LEAP and Aimpoint T2 at 1.93 for longer barrels. Wasn’t sure about MPX K.
I can't help but laugh at the fact that people use higher mounts. I constantly hear about neck pain and shoulder pain from using absolute cowitness and lower one third, and I've experienced it my self from trying them. Then i see people making higher mounts like the 1.93, 2.26 and 2.33, and I just lose my shit with laughter. Mainly because everyone makes fun of my Carry Handle Mount. It boggles the mind sometimes.
Carry handle is pretty nostalgic though.
Didn’t realize until I started getting into NVG’s that a 2.33 is really comfy and doable.
@@BananarchOfTedKacistan for me the main reason I went to carry handle mount was because I always have a gas mask as part of my kit. With it I solved my problems.
You know I basically always used lower 1/3! A few months back I got a spark AR that had the true co-witness as an option. I put it on a 7.5" 7.62x39 that I wanted to keep very compact. I actually prefer it. That being said, I'm not a big guy. I definitely see the benefit of a taller mount in certain cases. It all depends on your goals. I really prefer the fact that hold over is shrunk enough that it is really a none issue.
What type of gun would a half inch mount be used for? I see a UTG one for $2.97($10 msrp) at JoeBobOutfitters. Just curious. Used for Shotguns? 10/22s? AKs? Idk. Please help, its been driving me nuts.
It could be used for those, but depends. Don't buy utg crap. Not worth it
@@KineticConsulting Theres a big difference between UTG and UTG Pro(but theyre owned & operated by same people).
Standard UTG is cheaper quality stuff pretry much made for Airsoft. While UTG Pro is made with great quality and industry standard materials.
I have had fantastic luck with every single UTG Pro product I have gotten. Honestly impeccable quality But I will say that they do have some products that are not the greatest, but that can be said about almost any company.
I own 2 of their MilSpec stocks. I also own, 1 one inch riser/optic mount. An AR Carry handle sight. A couple Receiver Extensions(Buffer tubes). A Carbine Quad Rail.
And my absolute favorite of them all, I recently got a UTG PRO AR15 ULTRA SLIM 15" Handguard in Black/Blue(they also make them in Black/Red & just Black) I highly recommend you go check out this rail. It is literally the most beautiful handguard I have ever seen and I have built about 10 ARs.
Bottom line, please dont judge UTG PRO products because of UTG products. Its a whole different world of quality.
Im just trying to help. Just trying to give credit where credit is due. Trust me man, I have (typically) expensive taste in firearms. The UTG Pro products actually scratch that itch. The UTG Pro Handguard I bought just went on a $1500 AR. Its just perfect.
Anyhoo, God bless you my friend. Its a pleasure to meet you. Im glad I found your channel.
@@KineticConsulting I know it could be used for AR rails and sights etc buddy, Im just mainly curious what the majority of people would probably use them on. Who knows. Majority of peeps probably use em on ARs, because maybe they dont know much about risers or theyre just running a red dot & no irons. So it may seem right to them. Who knows, I will shut up now...
Do you know anyone who makes extra tall buis
To my knowledge there isn't any
The unity tactical "super tall" mount has built in sights.
Need to use a riser. Now you’re getting into adding a lot of shit. If you’re not running an offset micro or rds you can use offset irons like Dueck Defense RTS or Troy offset folding sights. Or just make sure you have QD mounts.
My m4 iron is pain in the ass. I need a mount but idk what height mount should i pick between. 5,.75,1 inch.
I have the Colt M4 Le6920 and the 1 inch riser was too tall for 1/3rd co witness and unusable for absolute. I got another measuring .5 inch on the way and If I can remember will come post results.
Where can I get one of those 2” red dot riser
I guess a abnormally high mount is retarded to me, I believe one of the most common fighting positions is the prone, and it wouldnt be bad to be able to use your back up iron sights in case your primary goes down, just spit balling
You ain't wrong. That's why I'm going back to a 1.5 or maybe 1.7
Might be true in the military but civilian and police applications don't typically call for full prone. But youre still not wrong. if it does happen it'll be more difficult
Home defense in prone?
If you're shooting a lot with NODs or a gas mask a high height is a must
Great insight and beneficial, thanks!
No 2.26 height......rookie. lol
Lol that why I corrected
Love the content excited to see this
Been using a lower 1/3 with an Aimpoint Pro, dying to Try a Scalar works 1.93 w a Halosun or Aimpoint
anyone else make the change, likes dislikes?
Great vid.
Nice muzzle brake
“Fantasy band camp.” Hahahaha!! Perfect description of all the tacticool “operators” with 13 pounds of crap hanging from their carbines.
Good video thanks
Very good review!
Great information!
The problem with these higher mounts is you loose the back up redundancy of iron sights…it’s only an issue when your optic fails…
Don't buy a shit optic and the need for irons drop drastically. Also if you're like me and use a good ir/vis laser or an offset red dot then the need for irons dies further unless you really want them.
Your zero isn’t relative to optic height
Actually it is. The higher the mount the larger the angle of departure is from the barrel. I don't think you know as much as I think you do
You give opinions. Doesn’t seem like you really know what you’re talking about.
Sorry my options and opinions on my video don't satisfy your needs.