Vegvisir isn't a Viking Age Symbol
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- Опубликовано: 19 июн 2024
- A few weeks ago we did a video on runes and futhark and mentioned some of the runes and symbols from Iceland, like the Helm of Awe, or Aegishjalmr. Afterwards we got loads of messages asking about this Icelandic magical stave, Vegvisir, and whether this one counts as an Old Norse runic symbol?
Well, I figured we might as well address it in a video all of its own! So let's have a little deep dive into Vegvisir, Icelandic staves, runic traditions, esoteric Christian magic, witch marks, and Jewish Kabbalah!
And this isn't even as weird as some of it gets. Wait until I do the Renaissance Hermetic magic video!
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Esotericism content by Jimmy? Yes please. If history has taught me anything it's that the accepted mainstream popular understanding of "Ancient Thing" is almost always Victorians. Sometimes it's eugenicists, but it's usually Victorians. Sometimes it's both.
Eugenics was victorian. So yes both.
My favourite of these people recently commented under a post about Olaf Trygvasson 'It's a shame the Vikings were brainwashed into being Christian! I'm just grateful enough of the old ways was written down!' I haven't the heart to tell her who wrote it down.
Yep... reconstructionists debate whether Ragnarok was a Christian invention _constantly._ Snorri is great for making sure we even _have_ these myths, but he did editorialize, and many of the tales Christianized before they even got to him. This is why it's important to read other sources like Saxo Grammaticus, who for example paints a VASTLY different version of the death of Baldr than Snorri's pure, beautiful shining one. Loki isn't even _in_ Saxo's version, kinda weakening the case for Ragnarok.
It's wild how much push back you get from people when you tell them this isn't a Viking symbol. Some people are way too invested in this being Viking/Pagan.
Everyone and their nan claiming to have some viking dna has this tattood on their bodies thinking it is viking/pagan and therefore they desperately want it to be considered those terms. They are afraid to admit to someone asking about their tattoo that they tattoo'd something on their bodies they saw on some cool 'viking clothing/jewelery' advert online or saw on some shady website claiming they know everything about the norse without researching anything beyond that.
@@Wotansfogal It's a continuation of Norse culture and identity, and its development. Norse culture and traditions were passed down by word of mouth, and almost all traces of it were destroyed intentionally by Christians on the European mainland. So if you'll find authentic Norse anything, it's likely to be from Iceland. It is a norse symbol possibly influenced by christian symbols. As convinced as this youtube presenter sounds, he is still only speculating on probability.
@@maxdamagus Bro Jimmy is literally a historian
@@DoinItforNewCommTech That's great and all but the history was burned, so he's doing what historians do, and guessing, instead of allowing for the fact that traditions were passed down in a fashion outside of mainstream culture, where expressing or promoting them publicly was punished even by death. This is more christian/abrahamic revisionism. The way he speaks as if he is certain when he IS leaping over gaps in knowledge, suggests that like some people "want to believe" these symbols are "viking" (which they may or may not be but are certainly norse continuation (including HYPOTHETICAL abrahamic influence on design (why the hell is he talking about specifically jewish influence though, there was NONE in Iceland)) - he too wants to kill a popular myth/belief with a little too strong a bias. Possibly because he disagrees with the politics of the kinds of people who wear them, and wishes to destroy anything they attach to, to destroy their identity and culture. That's a touch extreme, but people tend to over correct when being cynics.
@@maxdamagus Guess we've found the guy with a not-actually-Viking-stave tattoo
"no no, it's not witchcraft, it's anti witchcraft, see. Totally different."
Thats so funny… fred være med dig
No you don't understand it's not witchcraft it's magical rituals & symbols to stop witchcraft!
Something along the lines of 'the most important thing to learn about magic is knowing when and how to not use magic.'
“I was only using witchcraft to learn how to get AWAY from the witchcraft”
“His life fell apart and he wombled into esotericism” has to be my favourite description of going off the rails. Cracking good video as always, and I am *here* for any and all content from you. Take care, and congrats on a well-earned 50k!
"Wombled" is such a British word. Right out of Wimbledon Common.
"Would you guys be interested in [topic]?" Yes, Jimmy. The answer is always yes.
Also, congrats on 50k! I remember when this corner of the internet had less than 1k. It's been fun to see it (and you) grow!
Thank you so much for being here for it! What a wild ride!
I concur, we will always be interested in the topic.
Yes yes yes
Agreed. We will always be interested in [topic you are wondering about]. That’s why we’re here and subscribed to your channel. :)
I love this video. Last time I told someone that these were Christian symbols they were absolutely ENRAGED!
This was great and I would LOVE to hear you talk about esoteric magic.
Oooh yes! Especially the greco-roman influence?? :D
✋✋✋ I fourth (or whatever) this
Seconded absolutely!
Ditto!!
Another infavour for esoteric magic
The funny thing is my mother got me some earrings when she visited island that are stave symbols that are meant to be for good health (I have more that 7 medical conditions that all make each other worse so it was very apt), and apparently at the museum she got them (Saga museum in iceland) they were advertised as "medieval viking" in origin of the symbol. I personally don't really care that they aren't viking, as it is still a very lovely thought to get magical symbols too improve health, but a bit sad that the museum wasn't advertising the origin of the symbols truthfully.
Please talk more about esoteric magic. I'd love to learn more about the subject.
Thank you for mentioning Jackson Crawford on this one. His quote was pretty funny when he said the vegvisir was to help someone find his way but it couldn't find its way back to the viking age
Made me chuckle, because
1) I have a Vegvísir tattoo (and still love it - thanks for teaching me about its origins though), and
2) I actually have a norwegian forest cat named Ivar 😂
Ok, I absolutely love how modern personal luck based superstition is basically a continuation of ancient magic practices. From now on Im going to start referring to my little lucky trinkets and practices as magic rituals and my sorcery
There's actually someone on YT here called The Skeptical Witch who does just that. Rituals used for psychology, sometimes called "spicy psychology", and I find that really effective. It's quite interesting, fits in with the growth of the non-theist and science based pagan movement.
I think it's just human nature to associate objects with things that happen to them as a mark of faith or loyalty like a favourite toy or a lucky bat etc.
I love the Buddy Christ. As an art teacher educated in critical enquiry and art history, it speaks volumes to me....and I love the movie, Dogma, where it comes from.
"sorry I'm late, I wombled into esotericism" needed on merch : p
@@thomastipping2275 I would have said "wombles optional" 🤣
1. Phil is beautiful.
2. There's something fitting and lovely about modern Pagans appropriating Christian magic for Pagan purposes. (I am absolutely not cool with fascists/folkists).
3. This was incredibly educational. Really, really clear. Fascinating all the way through.
I support all of this
2. That is a fabulous perspective and I'm so here for it
1. Ivar the Boneless is an excellent name for a cat. (Especially such a cute cat as Phil.)
2. I loved this video.
3. Obviously I'd want to hear more about the history of esoteric magic and hermeticism and all of the stuff they stole from all over the place. (Because that's the feeling I got from a shallow wikipedia dive.)
I've read every single work on the subject... the ones from early 20th century are 100% mix and match of stuff borrowed at will from other sources. Prime example being Isis Unveiled by Madame Blavatsky.
My first pet cat came with the name Godzilla!
Heck yes to a video about esoteric magic!
Yes please!
Interestingly, this reminds me of Amish barn stars of the Pennsylvania Dutch, which are also dubbed hex signs. A quick dive into the matter shows that, yes, the Amish did paint barn stars, but did not have any documented, demonstrable beliefs in the symbols being hex/anti-witch/protective magic. The belief was attributed by non-PA Dutch folks looking in the early 20th CE because... I dunno? The six-point stars look similar to these Renaissance apotropaic staves? People wanted to believe that all early Christian settlers in the New World were anti-witch like the folks in Salem, Massachusetts? It made for a good story to tell tourists who wouldn't know any better?
I was just thinking the same thing - especially the one with 'petals'.
Please do a video on esotericism!
As an Icelander who interacts a lot with tourists, I absolutely love telling them that Vegvísir is not Viking Age and in fact Christian magic. I didn't know it was this recent though but I'll definitely be sprinkling that in from now on.
John Dee was my favorite guy to learn about in my history of witchcraft class. Man calling up angels for monarchs and causing drama very fun to learn!
YES John Dee is my boy I love him so much. What a mad lad
"It's not as easy as the jewelry companies want it to be" I did a paper for a grad course on magic c and tunic writing and this statement sums up my conclusions exactly.
There's a clothing company I like that has some cool clothes, but the descriptions are questionable, at best. For a dress they sell with this symbol embroidered on it, this is what they wrote "Celebrate the heritage of your Viking LARP character, honor the Viking culture, or wear a statement piece that will surely catch the eye of other people passing by you. Did you know that the Vegsivir, or "Wayfinder", has been around since at least 874CE? Those who settled in Iceland brought the old Norse faith with them that year, but the symbol likely pre-dated this time."
Oops.
Well, I wouldn't be too hard on them tho, their job is make good clothing not to read history. Assuming they make good clothing ofc. I don't know the company.
@ oh yeah, great clothes. I wouldn't stop buying from them for this. It's a good laugh more than anything
1. Congrats on 50K subscribers!
2. Yes please on more magic videos (or videos about magic, whichever)
3. As a Roman Catholic myself, I wouldn’t classify the rosary as apotropaic magic, but I’m not sure if that’s due to me not quite understanding what apotropaic magic is or differences in American Roman Catholic customs versus European ones. For protection from harm, you’d usually want a saint’s medal (especially a patron saint) to keep with you (worn as jewelry or kept in your pocket or wallet) or a medal with a symbol like the sacred heart (as displayed on Buddy Jesus) or the “miraculous medal” or an image of Mary (or all of the above). And, of course, if you have a vampire problem (maybe there’s a sparkly one who creeps on you while you sleep, for instance) it’s good to have some holy water you can splash on them or a crucifix to point at them. :)
Hey, it's Buddy Jesus! From one of the most underrated Christian movies of all time! Thanks again for sharing your knowledge and digging deep into the weird and esoteric!
Soooo much goodness in that film!
I have a ring I wear with this symbol on it. The meaning for me is to weather the storm in sobriety. It’s worked for 342 days
I would love more videos on this sort of Christian magic, it isn't something I've really known about and seems very cool. If you plan on making any video on this that would be super cool, also if you have any suggested reading that would be poggers 👍
The Icelandic staves are fun. I especially like the "to get a girl" one, Að unni. Also, here for the Valheim crowd. The vegvisir shows the direction and/or map location of/to the next boss there and it caused me to look into that a little more. I'm fine with it being more weirdking than viking. Still looks cool. The bees are happy.
The bees are happy.
Oh, we're in this topic again. Goddamn... can people just get with the program? It Is Not Viking! 😂
Also, Big Congrats to the 50 000 subscribers! ❤😁
5:07 Jimmy dear, you know damn well we'd watch you read the phone book to us - bonus points if in Welsh.
So yes please on the magic video!
First of all, big congratulations on 50K!!!!
Secondly, big thank you for clearing this up because it has annoyed me for ages when people claim it as Norse (I get it it’s cool but ugh!)
Thirdly, I would love videos on esoteric subjects 👏👏👏
Definitely up for an esoteric magic video. It's fascinating finding out what people have and do believe. My favourite magical object is the witch in a bottle in the Pitt Rivers museum. 😀
Yes! one vote for esoteric magic please!
Yes, Do it. Do it soon.
I mean, once you're healthy and have time and energy :)
Congratulations on 50k!
While those symbols are definitely not pagan viking, and shouldn't be used if you are reenacting, I am all for coopting them for neopagan practice. Any symbols which resonate with your reptile brain and help you deal with functioning in the world effectively is fine for use (with certain fascist exceptions and some cultural sensitivities) . Most magical thinking is about reducing stress so you can survive and function no matter what crap is happening.
^^^^
very well put, thank you
I would love to hear an educated talk about esoteric magic! That would be fascinating.
apparently Dr. Justin Sledge has a channel on here that's really good (IDK personally since that's not my wheelhouse)!
The educator in me is absolutely delighted in the variety of your examples (cat and Viking, watches). Well done
Also: you using the word Wombled like my old Nan across the pond just smacking me in the face
Oh yes, esoteric magic and where it really all comes from is so interesting and confusing as well ( to me anyway!) I grew up in a very catholic place and rosary beads were truly magical to me, ha! And taken quite seriously looking back- great video and glad you’re moved and on the mend✌🏼
Yes please, make the video Esoteric magic. Will be very interesting topic.
Woohoo 50,000!! 🎂🍺🍻🏴🏴🏴 Congratulations 50K Jimmy 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Yes please, more esoteric magic, and maybe more Phil.
'cringing into a singularity' is my new favourite phrase by you :)
As a long time student of religion and cultural practices (layman) I have read many many books on symbols such as this. I have never seen it explained so completely, eloquently or well presented. You truly are very good at organizing the relevant information and explaining it unambiguously. Thank you for being so concise and helping others, like myself, understand.
You made this video at a very interesting time for me hahaha. I'll be going to a festival next week which pretty much combines all sorts of nerd stuff with neo-paganism and I'm pretty sure you could make spotting Aegishjalmr and Vegvisir into a drinking game. Ngl, the neo-paganism is less and less my thing every time, and the nerd stuff more and more hahaha (and by nerd stuff I mean author stands, larp, reenactment, hema, tabletop games, cosplay and more). In fact this will be my first time doing a cosplay myself which is pre-adventure Bilbo, which for me was a great way to combine the interest in historical sewing with fantasy.
I don't think that drinking game would be very good for your liver...
Just remember to hydrate between drinks and eat plenty!
@@TheWelshViking I'm so glad it's one of the few festivals (I know of) that have free drinking water. I'd rather spend a little more on a nice drink (because of course they have mead and good beer) and have free water than the usual crap at festivals.
Thank you for elaborating on this subject. It's funny you mention Jackson Crawford because I'd checked out his video on this in the interim, but this was still interesting. And yes, I would be interested in a video(s) on the European hermetic/ esoteric traditions, it's a subject I've done a bit of research on myself and I'm particularly interested on how they developed the internal logic and language of their belief systems. I'd even take any book recommendations you'd have on the subject. Videos on other nord(ish) symbols with the history of their use and misuse would also be appreciated.
I spat out my coffee at 7:37 lol I'm listening to this as I draw so I was not expecting you to show a picture of Phil and then explain how he's not the real Ivar AHAHA 😹
thank you for the excellence of your posts...nice work, good man!
Absolutely wonderful video, many thanks for all of the hard work!
Yay for 50K!!!! You deserve it because you're amazing!
Your style is so kind, disarming and really interesting
Congratulations on reaching 50,000 subscribers !
Always good hearing from you, rest well !
Congrats for the 50k, Jimmy! Love your content, man! Been accompanying ya since earlier this year and so far it's been a great ride! Thanks for your amazing content, and love from Brazil! 🖤
Love how enthusiastic you are about these things. More please. X
Congratulations on 50K!🎉🎊
And I'm so happy to be seeing more videos about this popping up recently!
regarding future videos on late antique, medieval, and renaissance esoteric practices: DO IT. I'm subscribed to Dr. Justin Sledge's channel Esoterica and I'd be chuffed to see you examine hermetic and kabbalic texts in your content style. Dr. Sledge's videos are very information dense, and I think videos about the same texts he covers but in your casual conversational style would be lovely
. thanks for the info on new research stuff
So good to see this! There are only a few RUclipsrs who feel like friends and you are one of them. Your 50K is well-deserved.
Congratulations on 50k!! Love finding out about all of this, and I'd love to hear more about esoteric magic!
A video on esoteric magic? Yes please! Also, love all your videos - wonderful work!
Absolutely insane dude! 50k subscribers! Congratulations, tho you deserve much much more.
Thanks for putting everything within context of the day. Thanks for reading all those old books for all of us!
Sorry to hear you suffered through another bout of covid. We're happy you're feeling better. Thanks soo much for your wonderful, interesting and always informative videos!
Esoteric magic, symbolism etc. is fascinating stuff. The human tendency to find patterns and meaning in everything never ceases to amaze me. Congrats on 50k!
Recently found your channel. Great stuff! Really glad everything is going well
Spot on as always Jimmy
Thank you so much for this video, i got mine as a gift and i will honestly say i didnt really know what it mean outside of popular culture, but now i know and thank you so much,I will follow your channel closely
Congrats on 50K! Your one of my favourite channels :)
Yay 50k well deserved!! Especially great use of the term "wombled". ❤️
Congratulations on hitting 50k! Love your channel - keep well, lovely Jimmy :D
Congratulations, Jimmy!! As of now, you have hit 50k subs!🎉👍🥰
Esoteric magic sounds like some of the things some of my ultra conservative, ultra fundamentalist Christian family members are kind of into... Yet try to get them to think about it critically...
Really look forward to each video you do!
That would be strange. By default, esoterism is at odds with ultra conservative/fundamentalist views.
@ Never said it makes sense. 😁
A VERY sincere congratulations on hitting 50K subscribers, my friend!
THANK YOU for making this video! That thing drives me nuts. Also great shout-out to Dr. Crawford! :)
Wonderful and fascinating. I'm always interested to learn about magical stuff and where and why it originates.
YES, I enthusiastically request a video on esoteric magic! That sounds amazing.
A video on esoterica, yes, please! Love the look of you new place. Great lighting.
Gratz. I share your vids often...May you soon be 100K
Absolutely more esoteric magic! Especially because you enjoy it.
Congratulations on your milestone!
Glad you are on the mend, and that your move is complete.
Norse Pagan from Canada here. This is the first video I've ever seen from you, and I'm shocked I've not heard of you until now, as this kind of stuff is right up my alley. It's nice to see someone finally put the whole "Vegvísir is a Norse symbol" thing to bed, as it's always irked me a good bit. I'll probably be binging more of your content today, as I like what I see. It's not often I find a Viking channel I actually enjoy lol
May the luck of Njörðr be with you for all of your days :)
You are always so awesome!!!
Early Christian esotericism is so interesting
I appreciate you and I need more of this please.
As a former student of religious studies, I'd love to hear more about all this magic stuff! But honestly, I'm at a point where you coult talk about anything really that excites you. It's quite contagious! :D
Btw, congratulations to 50k!
I love the Buddy Jesus. Makes me giggle every time. Another fascinating video and I learned a lot. Thanks, Jimmy!
Congratulations on 50k!! Next up, 100k!
Jimmy, please host a class about magic. You are such a good teacher and I enjoy your videos very much!
Congratulations on 50K!🎊🎉
Yes, please, more esotericism!! This was very interesting and I'd love to learn more. I hope you feel better soon. I had to move because of necessary construction,and that also knocked me sideways. Take care.
Wonderful thank you!! Enjoyed that. Would greatly appreciate a dive into esoteric magic!!
The Gentleman's Guide To Vice and Virtue coming in clutch with the proper use of this stave. Fantastic series, and where I first learned this was a stave with a purpose instead of just a neat symbol
Please do make a video on esoteric magic and show us the bookshelf! Congratulations on 50k, a well deserved milestone!
Oooh I would love to see you go through some of your favourite books on esotericism - always looking for more :)
As someone who was really into esotericism as an adolescent, I'm totally here for any videos you make on them!
Amazing Video - learned so much. A video about esoteric would be amazing.
Heia 🤗 Please do a deep dive, I would love to learn more👍 Best wishes from Norway 🤗🤗
Thank you for the informative video!
Absolutely I’d love to hear you dive into esotericism!
Love the idea of a magical video or two
Hopefully you are feeling much better now! Oh and congratulations making it to 50!!!
If you are still wondering as I’ve said before if it interests you you can bet it will interest me! I’ve learned all sorts of interesting things here!
Loved this video mate!
Cheers dude!
Congrats on 50k. I hope you're feeling better and the disruption of moving is settling.