Apparently an officer on leave came back to his battalion on the front line with a barrel of beer for the officers mess. When they broached the barrel the beer was sour.... so they gave it to the Sergeants mess. The following day, the donating officer asked one of the Sergeants what he'd thought of the beer. The Sergeant replied that it was 'Just right'. The officer, amazed, asked the Sergeant why he thought that. The Sergeant replied that if the beer had been any better the officers would have drunk it themselves and if it had been any worse they'd have had to throw it out: So the beer was 'Just right'. This story might even be true.
I can assure you that the sergeants always have better food and drink than anybody in a unit including officers. They are in control of all supply and stores and, being long-serving soldiers, know all the ways of obtaining all the best stuff in the most unlikely of scenarios.
My grandfather in the first battalion Black Watch, after 1916 was an officers batman and lost quite a few officers. I dont know if he ever cooked for them as he was not much off a cook but did end up as the regimental butcher at the end of the war.
Regimental butchers, bakers etc are a really fun detail of those armies. A lot of the logistics of feeding all these people in place has to be made up by the armies. The turnover for junior officers remains high through the war. Lieutenants and the like.
A big chunk of the British soldiers when entering World War I. It was the first time that they had regular three good square meals in a day and most were that malnourished they actually put on 15- 20 lb in weight when you are fighting in the trenches in the muck in the gall and the cold you need to have a high level of calories to be in affected fighting force
Not just WWI. During early days of WWII, one reason why the Germans kept trashing the British, was that while the typical German were fit due to HY summer camps and diet, the British solder was undernourished with the effects of the great depression. During first six months of basic training, one of the things was good food to build up body mass of the typical British soldier (yes, I know the joke about shooting the ACC cook and saving the regiment!).
@@robertmonaghan5420 emaciated exploited British working-class men enter the front lines when they are deemed to be expendable by the English establishment. Is that better for you?
Also, officers initially wore riding pants at the start of the war which were probably more comfortable than what the standard soldiers wore. Although they stopped the practice when it was realized the Germans intentionally picked off the men with the "skinny legs" first. I'd imagine the allowance to have one's uniform tailored helped a great deal with comfort as you can see by 1918, the uniform really don't fit the soldiers as well as they were intended to since it was easier to put a baggy uniform onto a leaner soldier than have them re-tailored. I wonder if the biggest advantage in comfort was the use of a softer/more comfortable fabric. I've noticed some depictions show officers wearing a uniform that has a greener tint of khaki than the enlisted. Fabric can make a huge difference in comfort.
@@joeblow9657 Officers could be told apart with their different kit, I think? An officer is usually not carrying a battle rifle, they are too busy going around directing those who are. They need a personal defence weapon at most.
@@SusCalvin Smart officers carried a rifle in ww1 and ww2 so my grandfather told me, the concept in the US Army being different as they had the M1 Carbine, which the SAS also favoured in ww2 Europe.
According to the C S Forester Hornblower novels, the wealthier captains of Royal Navy ships often paid for extras on their ships. Hornblower barely had enough money to pay for a decent uniform.
That was still going on in the US Navy in the 1960s. Still had officers stores and officers mess. Officers bought much better food that was loaded on board (and often pinched by crew members during loading)
A interesting topic for my first visit here. This next bit may be a bit off topic but also somewhat close to the subject... During the American Civil War, officers serving in the Federal Army were required to also purchase thier own rations while in camp. However, at the start of a campaign they would draw the same rations as the enlisted men. In garrison, they would have a Officer's Mess. Thank you from the other side of " The Pond".
I read that provisioning the Continental Army was a whole discussion. A part of the whole "should Congress be able to tax people?" discussion. From what I understand of the early years, patriotic individuals would also make personal loans, contributions and pull strings. Expecting Bill Gates to personally procure MREs and boots out of his pocket would sound really strange to us today.
Interesting. I read somewhere that some New Zealand Soldiers serving at Gallipoli quickly started suffering from scurvy . Their diet was just bully beef and biscuits. Historians commented that a small amount of dehydrated vegetables would have prevented scurvy but the army probably misunderstood the situation - given the time
It was to an extent but by 1916 and 1917 you started seeing a lot of "temporary gentleman" and if I had to presume they'd often just keep eating the rations the enlisted men got, especially as they could probably justify getting an extra set of rations so long as they weren't at paper strength they could justify the requisition. I know Canadian WW2 General Andrew McNaughton was well liked by his men in WW1 for living the same lifestyle and eating the same rations as they did. That being said, I'd imagine an officer with danger pay could probably afford for their rations given the lack of socially expected expenses they'd have in peacetime.
@@joeblow9657 The entire Great War is a huge transition from the last of the napoleonic armies to the proto-WW II industrial armies filled through mass conscription. There is a huge turnover of junior officers through the war. The UK and french manpower pools are not all that well towards the end. I think the commonwealth volunteers made a great change in quality just from being an untapped manpower pool. Now I'm curious how the other great powers made up their officer corps. Germany is run like a military dictatorship, the general staff is both compromised of aristocrats and able to conveniently sideline officers when necessary. Russia is one of the few great powers with one foot left in absolute monarchy.
There were rules expected of officers that first the horses were tended to then the men , when these tasks were accomplished then the officers could look to their own comforts. It is still wrongly thought that the officers had it easy and were with the gear in the rear but the official tally was 17% officers killed and 11% other ranks and I believe that the deaths of generals reached nearly 300 during the war . I suppose it’s basing your knowledge on a comedy show like Blackadder . As many officers did have wealthier family many of them did get provided extras at the families expense but was usually shared amongst the officers but sometimes with the men also .
I mean it depends on how that is implemented. Sure, it's the job of the officer to make sure the horses and ranks are taken care of but once they sort out who's doing what and how it's going to be done I'd imagine they weren't actually doing that much of the tasks themselves. Sure some probably got stuck into the tasks like everyone else but I'd imagine if an officer didn't want to involve themselves that much they'd let the warrant officer or colour sergeant handle most of it and be on their way. I think it's also important to remember that even if the officers worked hard, there was always the class element outside of the military where a lot of competent enlisted men just couldn't rise to anywhere near the status and wealth of the officer class. Probably didn't help that a fresh faced 18-19 year old public school boy could get a commission easier than a qualified lifer who knew very well what he was doing and had the experience to back it up.
Yet another superb video ! I have one question, where do you find these newspaper articles/adverts that you use in your videos. I am very intrested in the topic of officers private purchase items and would really appreciate if you could let me know how you access these articles
🎶Plum and Apple , Apple and Plum , 🎶🎶Plum and Apple there is ALWAYS Some! 🎶🎶 The ASC Gets Strawberry Jam and Rations of Rum but we poor blokes we only get APPLE AND PLUM!! 😂
They paid for their own uniforms, so that higher quality (and better look) came at a price. But having said that, if you have to die, you can just as well look the part...
@@SusCalvin Well that's their tough. But as the war wore on there were many promotions in the field of NCOs. I assume these men somehow managed when at the front. Probably using their salary. My relative refused promotion to an officer to stay with his mates. He remained an NCO. He didn't think he was a victim. My suggestion to you is get on with your life instead of gripeing about what others may or may not have.
@@SusCalvin Canada did that until WW1 specifically to keep out the lower classes from the officer corps, especially in the Non-Permanent active militia where you had to pay for your own, often elaborate and expensive uniform. It was done in part since Canadian officers never purchased their commissions directly and in part to save costs while ensuring certain types of social classes were allowed to be officers while others were limited to the enlisted.
@@beowulf1312 NCO quality is a pretty interesting side. German doctrine has a lot more emphasis on lower-level decision-making and flexibility, and that requires NCOs and junior officers who can judge their actions in the greater plan. The UK had a tradition of a professional corps of soldiers with veterancy from different colonial expeditions. NCOs are not part of the officer's mess. Like you say, they remain with their class.
Different militaries provide differently, most produce back then was grown locally and purchased thus. Plus, there was no guarantee of a good crop. Also, it wasn't shipped like you have today. Transport of fresh vegetables from England to France and it doesn't arrive as fresh vegetables, if not turning bad already. Check out WWII submarines and see how foods were stored and what was eaten first before it perished, ...then go back another 20 yrs. This is what's wrong with today's society, very few know how to provide for themselves...they think the store provides it all. It would be a windfall of knowledge if people worked on a farm for at least a year...I've worked 3 farms through my years (beef, milk and vegetable).
Depends on how it's done. When British officers wore riding pants, you bet it did. I'd imagine the practice of wearing ties and a collared shirt didn't help much either but in theory you could get a uniform with more or less the same design and colour but with a comfier fabric and some aesthetically mild tailoring it could be much less of a factor.
My granddad signed on in 1914 and survived the poppy fields carnage but god help any body that dared bring a tin of Bully into his house he would have lost it big time
Did the private sources of wealth for officers help ensure their higher standard of diet and access to more luxury brand alcohol? I know pre-war officers were generally expected to be able to maintain their standard of living through a secondary income but I could also see their higher pay (especially given the additional pay for being deployed overseas) and reduced expenditures helping fund their food and drink.
Okay two questions, My first question what the f*** is medicated toilet paper. And my second question why did they take away my option to get Virginian cigarettes in the more expensive box!?
Izal was manufactured in Rotherham, the medicated part was the paper contained disinfectant. Bronco a similar toilet paper was made in London. Most people tore up their daily newspaper into squares, apparently the Daily Mirror was the best, put a hole in one corner and threaded string so you could hang it from a nail in the outside toilet. If you shared a toilet with a neighbouring family you did not leave your paper for them to use. No wonder people were happy for the council to re-house them into the new highrise flats in the 1950s where you got your own indoor toilet.
@@davidworsley7969 That awful stuff was still there when I was going to school, also for your second question where did the Turkish tobacco come from they were on the other side.
I'd have to disagree, you can plainly see the cap badge, they are belonging to the Seaforth Highlanders, not to mention also the HLI wore a plain green (as did the Cameronians and the 4th & 5th Royal Scots), whereas the Seaforths wore the red/white/black diced glengarry. Both the HLI and Seaforths did wear Mackenzie tartan however, (outwith the 5th Seaforths, who wore Sutherland Sett).
Imagine being forced into service, could get killed or maimed, and have to not only pay for your own food, but also pay tax to some royal back home, sitting down in their mansion for a 7 course meal.
It is the pleasure &, indeed, duty of a patriot & a gentleman to serve with enthusiasm, & without complaint, at the pleasure of His Grace, His Majesty the King.
Army: No officers kitchens, they limit mobility!
Officers, late 1914 - mid 1918: What mobility?
Apparently an officer on leave came back to his battalion on the front line with a barrel of beer for the officers mess. When they broached the barrel the beer was sour.... so they gave it to the Sergeants mess. The following day, the donating officer asked one of the Sergeants what he'd thought of the beer. The Sergeant replied that it was 'Just right'. The officer, amazed, asked the Sergeant why he thought that. The Sergeant replied that if the beer had been any better the officers would have drunk it themselves and if it had been any worse they'd have had to throw it out: So the beer was 'Just right'. This story might even be true.
I can assure you that the sergeants always have better food and drink than anybody in a unit including officers. They are in control of all supply and stores and, being long-serving soldiers, know all the ways of obtaining all the best stuff in the most unlikely of scenarios.
My grandfather in the first battalion Black Watch, after 1916 was an officers batman and lost quite a few officers. I dont know if he ever cooked for them as he was not much off a cook but did end up as the regimental butcher at the end of the war.
Regimental butchers, bakers etc are a really fun detail of those armies. A lot of the logistics of feeding all these people in place has to be made up by the armies.
The turnover for junior officers remains high through the war. Lieutenants and the like.
A big chunk of the British soldiers when entering World War I. It was the first time that they had regular three good square meals in a day and most were that malnourished they actually put on 15- 20 lb in weight when you are fighting in the trenches in the muck in the gall and the cold you need to have a high level of calories to be in affected fighting force
Not just WWI. During early days of WWII, one reason why the Germans kept trashing the British, was that while the typical German were fit due to HY summer camps and diet, the British solder was undernourished with the effects of the great depression. During first six months of basic training, one of the things was good food to build up body mass of the typical British soldier (yes, I know the joke about shooting the ACC cook and saving the regiment!).
@@John_Pace Today they have additional problems to deal with even before the food
Good First Sentence
@@robertmonaghan5420 emaciated exploited British working-class men enter the front lines when they are deemed to be expendable by the English establishment. Is that better for you?
'Comfier uniforms'. This was because officers in the British army at the time were expected to buy their own uniforms which were often tailor made.
Also, officers initially wore riding pants at the start of the war which were probably more comfortable than what the standard soldiers wore. Although they stopped the practice when it was realized the Germans intentionally picked off the men with the "skinny legs" first. I'd imagine the allowance to have one's uniform tailored helped a great deal with comfort as you can see by 1918, the uniform really don't fit the soldiers as well as they were intended to since it was easier to put a baggy uniform onto a leaner soldier than have them re-tailored. I wonder if the biggest advantage in comfort was the use of a softer/more comfortable fabric. I've noticed some depictions show officers wearing a uniform that has a greener tint of khaki than the enlisted. Fabric can make a huge difference in comfort.
@@joeblow9657 Officers could be told apart with their different kit, I think? An officer is usually not carrying a battle rifle, they are too busy going around directing those who are. They need a personal defence weapon at most.
@@joeblow9657 Same in WW2 when the officers were wearing shorts - !
@@SusCalvin Smart officers carried a rifle in ww1 and ww2 so my grandfather told me, the concept in the US Army being different as they had the M1 Carbine, which the SAS also favoured in ww2 Europe.
@@simongee8928 My great uncle served in two Scots Regiments as a Sergeant and often wore shorts, he also rubbed dust into his chevrons to dull them
Thank you for this.
Sources are scattered among many books and it's such a pain to gather and verify each one.
Baldricks special sauce came to mind
According to the C S Forester Hornblower novels, the wealthier captains of Royal Navy ships often paid for extras on their ships. Hornblower barely had enough money to pay for a decent uniform.
That was still going on in the US Navy in the 1960s. Still had officers stores and officers mess. Officers bought much better food that was loaded on board (and often pinched by crew members during loading)
if HE ever existed in real life and had not been fictional
Welllll......that's pretty bad when the arrival of a haggis signals a significant upturn in the quality of a dinner.
🤣
What's wrong with haggis. Tasty protein
Yeh, the Argylls objecting to eating haggis...yum.
Haggis is a great food
A interesting topic for my first visit here.
This next bit may be a bit off topic but also somewhat close to the subject...
During the American Civil War, officers serving in the Federal Army were required to also purchase thier own rations while in camp.
However, at the start of a campaign they would draw the same rations as the enlisted men.
In garrison, they would have a Officer's Mess.
Thank you from the other side of " The Pond".
I read that provisioning the Continental Army was a whole discussion. A part of the whole "should Congress be able to tax people?" discussion. From what I understand of the early years, patriotic individuals would also make personal loans, contributions and pull strings.
Expecting Bill Gates to personally procure MREs and boots out of his pocket would sound really strange to us today.
Army biscuits = hard tack, ie, biscuits as hard as iron that were known as tooth breakers and had to be soaked in water or tea before being eaten.
Interesting. I read somewhere that some New Zealand Soldiers serving at Gallipoli quickly started suffering from scurvy . Their diet was just bully beef and biscuits. Historians commented that a small amount of dehydrated vegetables would have prevented scurvy but the army probably misunderstood the situation - given the time
yup no vits
'rat turds in glue' replied Baldrick when asked.
mud,dandruff and spittle........can i offer you a coffee Darling?
Sauteed or frikassed?
It sounds like a system that makes sure those who can't constantly order food from home are kept firmly out of the officer corps.
It was to an extent but by 1916 and 1917 you started seeing a lot of "temporary gentleman" and if I had to presume they'd often just keep eating the rations the enlisted men got, especially as they could probably justify getting an extra set of rations so long as they weren't at paper strength they could justify the requisition. I know Canadian WW2 General Andrew McNaughton was well liked by his men in WW1 for living the same lifestyle and eating the same rations as they did.
That being said, I'd imagine an officer with danger pay could probably afford for their rations given the lack of socially expected expenses they'd have in peacetime.
@@joeblow9657 The entire Great War is a huge transition from the last of the napoleonic armies to the proto-WW II industrial armies filled through mass conscription. There is a huge turnover of junior officers through the war. The UK and french manpower pools are not all that well towards the end. I think the commonwealth volunteers made a great change in quality just from being an untapped manpower pool.
Now I'm curious how the other great powers made up their officer corps. Germany is run like a military dictatorship, the general staff is both compromised of aristocrats and able to conveniently sideline officers when necessary. Russia is one of the few great powers with one foot left in absolute monarchy.
There were rules expected of officers that first the horses were tended to then the men , when these tasks were accomplished then the officers could look to their own comforts. It is still wrongly thought that the officers had it easy and were with the gear in the rear but the official tally was 17% officers killed and 11% other ranks and I believe that the deaths of generals reached nearly 300 during the war . I suppose it’s basing your knowledge on a comedy show like Blackadder . As many officers did have wealthier family many of them did get provided extras at the families expense but was usually shared amongst the officers but sometimes with the men also .
I mean it depends on how that is implemented. Sure, it's the job of the officer to make sure the horses and ranks are taken care of but once they sort out who's doing what and how it's going to be done I'd imagine they weren't actually doing that much of the tasks themselves. Sure some probably got stuck into the tasks like everyone else but I'd imagine if an officer didn't want to involve themselves that much they'd let the warrant officer or colour sergeant handle most of it and be on their way. I think it's also important to remember that even if the officers worked hard, there was always the class element outside of the military where a lot of competent enlisted men just couldn't rise to anywhere near the status and wealth of the officer class. Probably didn't help that a fresh faced 18-19 year old public school boy could get a commission easier than a qualified lifer who knew very well what he was doing and had the experience to back it up.
I don’t recall too many of the officers surviving in Blackadder!
Great vid, I keep trying to dig up videos on military rations.
Yet another superb video ! I have one question, where do you find these newspaper articles/adverts that you use in your videos. I am very intrested in the topic of officers private purchase items and would really appreciate if you could let me know how you access these articles
Big London research libraries have tonnes of the stuff.
🎶Plum and Apple , Apple and Plum , 🎶🎶Plum and Apple there is ALWAYS Some! 🎶🎶 The ASC Gets Strawberry Jam and Rations of Rum but we poor blokes we only get APPLE AND PLUM!! 😂
I wonder what the tune is
They paid for their own uniforms, so that higher quality (and better look) came at a price. But having said that, if you have to die, you can just as well look the part...
It makes sure the sort of people who can't pay for a uniform are kept out of the officer ranks.
nothing changed@@SusCalvin
@@SusCalvin Well that's their tough. But as the war wore on there were many promotions in the field of NCOs. I assume these men somehow managed when at the front. Probably using their salary. My relative refused promotion to an officer to stay with his mates. He remained an NCO. He didn't think he was a victim. My suggestion to you is get on with your life instead of gripeing about what others may or may not have.
@@SusCalvin Canada did that until WW1 specifically to keep out the lower classes from the officer corps, especially in the Non-Permanent active militia where you had to pay for your own, often elaborate and expensive uniform. It was done in part since Canadian officers never purchased their commissions directly and in part to save costs while ensuring certain types of social classes were allowed to be officers while others were limited to the enlisted.
@@beowulf1312 NCO quality is a pretty interesting side. German doctrine has a lot more emphasis on lower-level decision-making and flexibility, and that requires NCOs and junior officers who can judge their actions in the greater plan. The UK had a tradition of a professional corps of soldiers with veterancy from different colonial expeditions.
NCOs are not part of the officer's mess. Like you say, they remain with their class.
Where did you get your uniforms and equipment?
I'll have a cappuccino,
and make it frothy.
It freaks me out that they had to BUY produce. They didn't just RECEIVE vegetables.
Different militaries provide differently, most produce back then was grown locally and purchased thus. Plus, there was no guarantee of a good crop. Also, it wasn't shipped like you have today. Transport of fresh vegetables from England to France and it doesn't arrive as fresh vegetables, if not turning bad already. Check out WWII submarines and see how foods were stored and what was eaten first before it perished, ...then go back another 20 yrs.
This is what's wrong with today's society, very few know how to provide for themselves...they think the store provides it all. It would be a windfall of knowledge if people worked on a farm for at least a year...I've worked 3 farms through my years (beef, milk and vegetable).
Better uniforms just marks you out as a officer to any Sniper
Depends on how it's done. When British officers wore riding pants, you bet it did. I'd imagine the practice of wearing ties and a collared shirt didn't help much either but in theory you could get a uniform with more or less the same design and colour but with a comfier fabric and some aesthetically mild tailoring it could be much less of a factor.
My granddad signed on in 1914 and survived the poppy fields carnage but god help any body that dared bring a tin of Bully into his house he would have lost it big time
Did the private sources of wealth for officers help ensure their higher standard of diet and access to more luxury brand alcohol? I know pre-war officers were generally expected to be able to maintain their standard of living through a secondary income but I could also see their higher pay (especially given the additional pay for being deployed overseas) and reduced expenditures helping fund their food and drink.
I love these vids
I didn't know that a British army General made broth for himself during the early days of the war
Tinned birds?
Okay two questions, My first question what the f*** is medicated toilet paper.
And my second question why did they take away my option to get Virginian cigarettes in the more expensive box!?
It's that horrible unabsorbant shiny stuff that we used to use as tracing paper- I think Izal was the trade name.
Izal was manufactured in Rotherham, the medicated part was the paper contained disinfectant. Bronco a similar toilet paper was made in London. Most people tore up their daily newspaper into squares, apparently the Daily Mirror was the best, put a hole in one corner and threaded string so you could hang it from a nail in the outside toilet. If you shared a toilet with a neighbouring family you did not leave your paper for them to use. No wonder people were happy for the council to re-house them into the new highrise flats in the 1950s where you got your own indoor toilet.
@@davidworsley7969 That awful stuff was still there when I was going to school, also for your second question where did the Turkish tobacco come from they were on the other side.
1:57 - Probably officers of the Highland Light Infantry.
I'd have to disagree, you can plainly see the cap badge, they are belonging to the Seaforth Highlanders, not to mention also the HLI wore a plain green (as did the Cameronians and the 4th & 5th Royal Scots), whereas the Seaforths wore the red/white/black diced glengarry. Both the HLI and Seaforths did wear Mackenzie tartan however, (outwith the 5th Seaforths, who wore Sutherland Sett).
This narrator is a dead ringer for Sean Bean.
0:54 Meat Lozenges? Bleeergh
7.05 Wilfred Brambell .
Rat-O-Van😉
A great marine officer ( Leader ) always ate last as a rule OK Marine ,Army ,Air Corp ,Navy
pfff i wold rather eat with men and give cooks my ration
The same policy is used in the US Military
Imagine being forced into service, could get killed or maimed, and have to not only pay for your own food, but also pay tax to some royal back home, sitting down in their mansion for a 7 course meal.
The president never fights the war. My thoughts and blessings to the people who suffer it ..not much.. but what I can offer.ibwill give
🤣🤣…what a silly inner city post..
Still happening
Like Churchill
It is the pleasure &, indeed, duty of a patriot & a gentleman to serve with enthusiasm, & without complaint, at the pleasure of His Grace, His Majesty the King.
evaporated prunes ...... mmmmmmmmmmmmm
Probably A Great Video. But The Commentator Isn't Good
Employed some of the men to serve them? By ‘employed’ you mean ordered the ‘minions’ to be their servants or valets.