Frankly i am just done with the big gay bird having his big gay emotions and who is now in a relationship that driving full speed in to a fire factory carrying 6 tons of explosives. This is gonna end so bad for both of them.
yea a side-show made the main show. its so bad i just use my own headcannon that hazbin and helluva hell is 2030s 2050s earth and earth is 2018s earth. i mean the elite who plan agenda 2030 2050 even have a global EXTERMINATION planned to get it done!
You know, I think Unhappy Campers should have swapped Moxxie and Millie's roles: Moxxie, due to being the most sociable and "normal" one of IMP, is the one everybody likes and gets along with (instead of him constantly being the butt-monkey of the show) while Millie, whose main talent is killing really good, is out of her element and can't get along with anyone (besides maybe edgy teens). Plus, the two don't know where their target is. This would give Millie more spotlight and her having an inferiority complex (maybe even exploring more of her backstory like when she left home and life before Moxxie) with Moxxie being the one to comfort her like she's done for him before.
This is pretty smart. What if Millie had middle child syndrome, therefore wanting to prove herself as more than what people think of her as? She overworks herself to feel worthy, since that's what her parents taught her to respond with when she felt down.
@@suspiciousstar7547 exactly this. There’s so much that could be done with her character, but Viv seems to think that a character not having trauma comes with them not having any internal conflict.
I just can't fathom how some people wish for Octavia, a sheltered 17 year old girl, to be beaten and discarded away just because she's done with Stolas' behavior. You can still love someone and be upset at what they continue to do, family or not. Loving your child doesn't immediately make you a good parent. You have to put in the work too (ex: communicating with them properly, supporting them during hard times, bettering yourself, etc). It's nice that Stolas is trying and while I do believe he does love her, that isn't enough I'm sorry. If Blitz failed to meet Loona's needs because of his affair with Stolas, everyone would be jumping on him and calling him a bad dad. But since the narrative never seems to hold Stolas accountable in the way they do with Blitz, no one should worry about that conversation ever occurring.
I'm really worried about Octavia, she was one of my favourites, but before this episode even aired I had heard that apparently on streams Stolas will become the mc and that they don't care about Octavia, that they will write her off as bad. Not seen this stream but if I do I will never watch this show again
@@Lucky_Lyra i will differ, yes, she is understandable in her reaction, but she is not a kid, she does not have 9, or 10, or 12, she has almost 18, she is a teenager
i still remember the countless rants me and a friend have had over this show. my personal favorite moment is when she said "if you watch the eps backwards the characters GAIN development!"
@@EagleTimberWolfher character didn't actually developed backwards, from a literal standpoint, we were just shown her development backwards, seeing her fully developed character first and ending with her undeveloped one.
@@CorinXV Watch it again. He didn't 'quit' b/c he hated the show, he did so b/c he hated having to come up with continuing controversies to b*tch about and just wanted to enjoy the show in peace.
Sarcastic Chorus really isnt that good of a video essayist. hes fine dont get me wrong but it was painfully clear he wasnt enjoying making videos for the show all season.
@@GregPrice-ep2dkhe said he didn’t enjoy where the show was going so he didn’t want to critique it because he didn’t want to always be negative and repetitive
Helluva boss is written like melodramatic gay fanfiction of an existing villain of the week comedy cartoon. As if they stuck with the original pilot premise and this is just fanfiction for that
Hazbin Hotel is the same way. I find the idea of the princess of Hell wanting to redeem sinners to put them in heaven interesting, too bad they quit that halfway through the first season for an unnecessary war with Heaven that did not need to happen that completely contradicted the advertised premise.
@theunknowncommenter725 with Hazbin Hotel, I will give it some saving grace when it comes to the sudden war against heaven and hell. Instead of Hazbin Hotel being an indie show like Helluva Boss, it was picked up by Amazon Prime, a streaming service, and we all know how streaming services like to pick and choose what shows they want to keep going or discontinue, ESPECIALLY animated shows. So Hazbin Hotel, an aminated series, involving a LOT of 18+ topics and having a plot never used before, had to choose whether they wanted to take the risk of their show ending on a cliffhanger because Prime didn't greenlight any more seasons after season 1, so they had to rush the plot. This has happened before, specifically with The Legend of Korra and Nickelodeon, constantly telling the writers after each season that they weren't getting another season just for them to give another. This caused the writers to focus on trying to end the show on an actual ending instead of a cliffhanger, causing them to not be able to flesh out their characters like Korra's gang, and they had to do this every season with the fear of the show being ended on a cliffhanger. So I just hope this doesn't happen again with Hazbin Hotel.
Unpopular Helluva Boss opinion: the one who should have been supporting IMP shouldn't have been Stolas. It should have been Leraje. Leraje in the Goetia has been described as someone who spreads violence and dispute and can make anyone his lover and throw them away.
I've said it once, i'll say it again. *The show doesn't take itself seriously enough!* No matter how you slice it and dice it, many choices and themes of the characters should have been bound to hit more serious and dark tones, not to mention concrete consequences for the characters. Instead we get the safest routes possibles, leaps of logic to make the plot work. The latest episodes made me genuinely consider quitting the show for good. Many of the problems Blitz just walk away from, and *a problem that the protagonist(s) can walk away from, is a conflict the audience can walk away from!*
@@jorami4838 Is that why she was mad? It's more so because that he negatively affected her reputation. No wrong she was always a horrible person, and no the story doesn't entirely justify Stolas's cheating not when it still hurt Octavia.
@@Jdudec367 Because she was screaming at Stolas and orders a hitman on him. It would be understandable in another show if it wouldn't be about murder professionals where Blitzo is screaming at Moxxie while making fun of him and the first client is a sinner, in a sympathetic light, who shots his cheating husband. I want to ask, where were we supposed to know?
I'd also like to add that they got inspired by Bojack Horseman. I kinda see that considering their treatment of Blitz. The difference is that Bojack is a complex character who had to face moral dilemmas and who sometimes made screwed up things. One of the most controversial scenes of the show was Bojack almost sleeping with his childhood friend's daughter who is a minor. Everything that lead up to this moment was well-written and we can understand to a certain degree why he did that while also understanding that it's awful and he is going to regret it immediately. As for Helluva boss, it feels like they want to go for the same effect but don't really know how. Blitz was portrayed as someone who also did something terrible in the past but then it's revealed that it was moslty misunderstandings. For example, when Fizz learned that Blitz caused the fire, that injured him, accidentally he immediately forgave him. Verosika also seems to understand that Blitz was a bad boyfriend because of his mental health and since their last encounter the two seem to be on neutral terms. The show wants to portray Blitz as someome who made mistakes in the past but in reality none of them were deliberate
If that Bojack Horseman scene was written by Vivziepop, Bojack would've been woobified and given a million excuses by the plot that absolves him of any wrong doing in the audience's eyes.
@Sappysappster yep I've also read that Stealla was inspired by Beatrice Horseman. They really took an extremely nuanced character and turned her into a caricature villain. I think they plan on giving Stella a backstory but it would take a writing miracle to make her relatable
When was it implied Verosika thought Blitz was a bad boyfriend because of his mental health? It was still deliberate and pretty shitty of him to do. That's not even mentioning the other stuff like him stalking Millie and Moxxie and his past treatment of Moxxie in particular.
@@Jdudec367 I think in Apology Tour he says something like "how can anyone love someone like me?" implying that he has self hatred issues. He also left Verosika after she confessed to him because he felt insecure. Being depressed doesn't excuse the way one acts, don't get me wrong. From the writing perspective it feels like they tried to always put the blame on him (but when Stolas does something wrong it's not acknowledged (for now)) and also go for "oh poor baby! His mom is dead and his dad didn't love him! And now he hates himself!" in a way justifying what he did because he was in a bad place mentally. As for M&M, I think it was an early gag that he spies on them because he is envious of how perfect their relationship is. When the show got more serious it became creepy in retrospect. It's a weird tone shift when Blitz threatens to "fuck Moxxie and his wife" in one episode and then has an entire bonding episode with Millie saying how he respects her. You can do edgy humor and drama at once but you need to be careful when you mix these elements. And the show feels messy in this area
I honestly believe if the animation wasn’t as good as it is this show wouldn’t be nearly as popular as imo the writing has had a MASSIVE downgrade from season 1. They want to write complex characters and relationship dynamics but oversimplify and dumb it down, everything feels like an early draft stage. I walk away every episode disappointed with the wasted potential. So many great ideas executed terribly. When people call it “fan fiction writing” they say that because it feels like it’s written by amateurs that don’t know how to write a compelling coherent well crafted story
@@icarue993I was thinking the same thing, I only watch because I’m invested in the story I used to enjoy. I can only “enjoy” the episode if I switch off all expectations and enjoy it for what it is, which is half baked slop
@@eggburt6169 In one ear, out the next. Its an enjoyable 30 minutes, but I won't remember much of what happens later (as I have discovered by arguing in the comments :P ) Compared to The Mazing Digital Circus which is so well crafted (an animated) it lingers in my mind for longer
I disagree seson one was vary south Park like. The pilot was all jokes, no plot, we are actually sincerely focusing on the caricters, Simply put over the top edge, where nothing matters to sincere charicter drama,
I really don't like stolas and blitz relationship because it feels like they want us to feel like stolas is lowering himself sooo much by being with blitz. And the last episode just make me feel that way soo much especially with the hug and everything. They're not a great couple and that's ok, we all love drama. But you can't present them in such a bad light and expect me to love them or root for them. Idk
They got back together too soon too. They never got a chance to address the issue that caused them to break up, but the trial incident forced them back together
@@QueenMariposa5exactly, and what makes me even more mad is that Stolas never reflected on his behavior. He never apologized to Blitz and said, "dang, I was undermining you I'm sorry I made you feel that way", or whatever. Like I get that Stolas is all in ruins rn, but Blitz is literally letting you stay in his home, you couldn't apologize for how shitty you've treated him??? 😭
The fan theories about the appearance of Barbie Wire before unhappy campers came out was way more interesting. The theory of Blitz crashing into Barbie’s happy life by having to try and kill her husband has such an interesting conflict. It felt like a lost opportunity just like the handling of the character Stella, whom could have placed such an interesting nuance with the infidelity.
Barbie Wire frustrates me as much as Stella because the show tells us that she and Blitzo used to be close, but never has her show up in any flashbacks. Fizzaroli feels more like a sibling to Blitzo than Barbie does and that's probably because Vivziepop's allergic to expanding on her female characters.
My friend ABSOLUTEL YES! That alone has so much potential! Hellborns having relationships with humans is such an interesting concept! You could make an entire series about an hellborn woman (Barbie Wire) deciding a good life on Earth with a good husband is worth breaking the rules of Hell, escaping the dystopic landscape of the Pride Ring and risk the wrath of Satan and Heaven! ...but instead we got "she's smuggling drugs to Hell and waving her butt to the camp counselor to bribe him" -__-
With Helluva Boss, instead of exploring complex morally grey characters ,in a fascinating dystopic setting like Hell, where you HAVE to make compromises to survive and things you wouldn't be proud of, we ended up with *"characters that are good but flawed people OPPRESSED BY THE SYSTEM!* Fking...kill me...
Just like the Cherri Bomb x Sir pentious situation. Originally Sir Pentious and Rosie were gonna be a thing....but Viv saw the fanart and basically threw her original Idea into the garbage... Not to mention Stolas was, note WAS, supposed to be an Antagonist :'>
I didnt have a problem at the time.... Until it became how it is and just unnecessary melodrama, I'm already over Official Stolitz to point of fan stuff now and done since Hazbin and promise Viv made before Hazbin was announced with the Trailer she values good faith criticism. Also it's just tiring with all the juvenile use and extent of adult stuff and swearing, I'm not 10 or think swear words and vulgarity is funny & "best thing ever" to want to see again constantly or into writing like Viv's.
@@artistanthony1007Ikr, it was interesting in season 1 because it focused on Stolas and Blitzo's relstionship being a mess that brought out their worst flaws and reopened their bad memories.
also the way we are meant to hate Valentino but love Stolas is just so flat out insulting. Like think about it stolas sexually coerces blitz, talks down on him, treats him like garbage but we are meant to think it’s the VICTIMS fault? That’s just flat out disrespectful and I’m not an assault survivor but I would imagine making the abuser the one in the right is at least a little fucking icky.
@@jeremyallen5974 You’re right, Stolas doesn’t do that. Instead, he forces Blitz into an imbalance relationship, infantilises him, makes unwanted sexual advances towards him, looks down on his entire race, and acts like it’s Blitz’s fault that he doesn’t reciprocate Stolas’s feelings. Just because it isn’t the same as Angel’s situation, doesn’t make it any less toxic.
"Professional fanfiction" is probably the best way to describe the writing quality of Helluva Boss. Hazbin Hotel has similar problems, but I think it probably had the benefit of a more stringent editing process because of its strict episode limit and the fact that it was picked up professionally.
Oh my God!!! I like this term and it hurts me at the same time because there are very good ff and it is understood that a ff is an inferior form of writing (since it is not original and takes something already known as a base) But HB deserves this shameful achievement.
Fr they also made striker intimidating at first then just made him literally the same as any other character esp with that statue thing 😒 fizz and Asmodeus were also intimidating at first just to turn into an uwu sweet couple of babies
it hurts to see history repeat again with SKlauncher a CRACKED launcher like Tlauncher that REQUIRES internet THATS HOW TLAUNCHER GOT INFECTED WITH VIRUS!!!!!
@@______________url i think they're referring to both shows sidelining interesting characters, premises and plots for tepid romance drama. calling it the new SVTFOE is an exaggeration tho, both because SVTFOE's fumbles are an entirely different level, and that even at its peak helluva boss was never regarded as highly as SVTFOE at its peak
As a former fan of Helluva Boss, the reason why I loved this show is because of their wacky and funny antics when they are doing their office work or being assassins. I like their dysfunctional functional dynamic and the animation is getting better and better each episode and seasons. Plus the songs! I loved the songs. they are the highlight of each episodes. Now for the reason why I dropped the show. I don't like how each episode doesn't connect, and the writing is getting bad each new episode. The writing feels like fanfiction and each character choosing dumb decisions just because they have to to progress the plot. It feels predictable, inconsistent, and dumb at the same time.
Even worse, I feel like they cherry pick what connects and what doesn't. Like Blitz and Millie's friendship? Pretty stable. Moxxie's cowardace and what SHOULD have been progression after his mafia dad, Truth Seekers and getting jealous? Nah. Keeping that so he's still kinda eh. Stolis being mad at Blitz? Keep that going normally.
What made me hate the show especially in the new episode is because what they did to octavia's character. They have already established on eps 2 season 1 that Stolas really has true feelings and care for octavia no matter what happens to them and on the episode "Seeing Stars" where Stolas personally find and tract octavia cements that he will do anything for her, but in the season finale for "Sinsmas" she just completely ditch Stolas even thou he had to do it to save blitz and clearly showing Stella and Andre laughing and mocking Stolas.
@@PiximaeI'm fine with that. At least Millie gets an episode and there's something other than Stolitz, even if it's, again, features another character and their internal stuff Millie have to solve ( I would love to watch an episode about Blitzo and Millie doing their job while bantering and having fun, she seems like the type of person who would do that and them being being friends and bonding over humor, unlike the more serious Moxxie, would make sense. And idk, they would do something crazy like stealing a zoo lion cuz why not? ). But it's still something. It wasn't even written by Vivziepop, Brandon Rogers cares more about it than her.
@@Piximae Moxxie did progress and become more brave and willing to stand up for himself though. He was still jealous though. They needed time away from each other and that happened. They really don't cherry pick what connects and what doesn't.
@@reain diodnt' change his personality he just felt more comfortable being surpportive of someone. not to mention the mofo literally gave up so much to literally SAVE HIS LIFE.
@@reain a villain needs to be something more than just not being a positive character, actually Stolas is a hero more than a villain, his only villanous things are being a neglectful father (which is not that negative if he is not intentional one)and basically all the book thing
HB was not advetised as a romance so that's why the audience feels justifiable betrayed. Only in episode 7 we actually start to get romance plot. Viv once twetted something in the lines of: "what's wrong if a show becomes a fanfic of itself?". We got the answear: braindead plot animated well. I expected it to be bad, I did not expect “cheating is okay if it’s gay and and it’s bad when a woman does it”. Also wow, how ironic that the most underdeveloped female character that Vivziepop insists has a lot of hidden depth is given a pregnancy plot. How much do you want to bet she’s going to be completely sidelined in the next season. ALSO, sorry yall but I don’t think Stolas is actually going to apologize for being a bad father to Octavia. Did we forget what happened when Ozzie called out Stolas in “Ozzie’s” and Blitzo chewed out Stolas in “Full Moon”, the former didn’t even keep his energy and Blitzo was so thoroughly punished that it felt like he was being abused into falling for Stolas. In fact that’s not even the first time she defensively said there’s nothing wrong with her writing feeling like fanfiction. She even called it homophobic when people used fanfiction as deragatory bc some queer people like it…. That’s like saying it’s homophobic to shit on Big Mouth because it has some queer fans. This is a video from Flazefire about HB and he also has one of HH, they are very informative, I recommend watching them. ruclips.net/video/7tehtH-rg94/видео.html&si=GcmeFlppkDFsIJSJ The tweets are at 26:00 mark and they go for a minute or so. One of the dates is december 1st 2024. Well we all have to admit. Viv beat the record for "how to avoid to tell what are the fellings of a mother about her own kid". Right now she holds the record of 2 seasons or 20 cursed episodes. I observed that while in Avengers there was only one way to end well, in every Vivziepop show there is only one way to end wrong and the writers bend over backwards to achive it. Example s2 e9 the fallout would have been avoided if eighter one of them did some gesture different and s2 e11 where no one in the court has a brain. In other shower thoughts, with season 2 ending we can finally say that Unhappy campers WAS THE MILLIE EPISODE ALL ALONG, yes, not Ghost fu- which btw was written by Brandon. Let that sink in...how much Viv cares about Millie. It just struck me: ep 2, 5 and 6 are pointless, ep 4 ruined Striker, ep 11 is the worst written trial in fiction (THE TRIAL FOR STOLAS, NOT BLITZ, THEY CAN'T BE FOR THE SAME CRIMES!!!) and ep 12 excuses Stolas further. I won't defend these remarks, however I left out the true worst episode of the entire show, the one every new watcher should skip because the wrtiitng is so bad that retcons the entire show before and even worse, after it. This episode should have his own medal alongside other boring episodes because it should not exist. Ladies and gentlemen, the worst episode of the entire show, because it spoils everithing else without ever being referenced once after its air, is...THE CIRCUS...
@@dcscruz2970 Well it was originally made by Viv, but after that episode leaked they re-wrote it and had Brandon write it instead. But too your point, yes Brandon actually is super underrated when it comes to writing. (at least imo)
For me the worst episode was the first one of the second season because confirming that they are childhood friends only cuts off the potential of both as a couple. At that time HH had not yet been released and as I reached HB I had hopes that HB would be of a higher quality, you know "professional", and well HH came out and then well...
@@el-gonza Tbh it's kinda of hard to say that HB isn't "professional-fanfic" because of Ep. 1 of season 2.... Speaking of which, what was the point of that entire plotline again!?!? Because I genuinely don't know.
I think the problem with Viv’s writing is that she has all of these plots and ideas and backstories for these characters already laid out and she doesn’t want to compromise any of it. All of her characters have stayed the same since the very beginning. Need a background character? Use an old OC. Need a new main cast character? Frankenstein a bunch of old OCs together. She had a plot, she had a promising story to be told, but she didn’t want to compromise any of Blitz’s trauma or backstory in order to keep the original premise going.
The criticism "So what? It's an indie animated series, it doesn't have to be amazing." is just idiotic given that fact we have Amazing Digital Circus, which is well amazing and has incredible character writing, not to mention it doesn't baby any of its characters, they all have to go through the ringer, and most of all it doesn't try to justify Cain or insists he is a good person, they don't vilify him either, he is pertained in the show as exactly what he is, a dumb glitchy AI that doesn't understand humans. This is so frustrating because Stolas could have been a pretty decent morally gray character, if only the show didn't try to victimize him, made him face the consequences of his actions, and didn't make him into "poor Ovo victim owl boy". Octavia is 10000% right to cut him out of her life, and I so wish this would stick but we all know that VivzyPop wouldn't recognize good writing if it took a crap on her nose, so I bet in the end Via will be the one apologizing to Stolas for how awful he is, the same way Viv whipped Blitz, so he'd think that he was the one in the wrong and Stolas is the best thing that ever happened to him when the romantic relationship is the last thing guy needs right now (especially with that manipulative b*tch of a bird), he needs therapy insted.
And TADC is also pretty good at foreshadowing/setting things up for later. How bucket Kinger foreshadows how he feels comfortable in the dark. Ragatha's insecurities are not just random throwaway lines, but how she actually feels and is touched upon in ep4 (both of these things happen in the same convo). How Gangle is the butt of the joke (since ep1), and so the power trip she feels in ep4 is understandable. I was surprised how something like the Grimoir is such an illegal thing that Stolas thinks he deserved the unalive penalty. I thought it lacked foreshadowing, as the first instance was mentioned in ep1 (when Stolas was WAY more of a villain, so it sounded more like coercion than anything else), but never again. It might have been a good idea to refresh us on that, but oh well. I think to enjoy Hella, you just have to shut your brain, or so the fans tell me.
The issue with HelluvaBoss is that it wants to have its cake and eat it too It wants to be an episodic sitcom that's R-rated Looney toons, but it also wants to be a plot heavy serialized romance with character development and drama If HB stuck to its original premise, I still believe it would've gotten slander (cuz Vivziepop writing L O L) But to a lesser degree. Because at the end of the day "It's just a silly cartoon bro it's not that deep" You wouldn't be mad that The Amazing World of Gumball doesn't have heavy continuity would you? But HelluvaBoss WANTS to be That Deep And it fails at it miserably.
I mean....cartoons have managed to be both episodic and serialized before I don't see wh Helluva Boss can't do that too. TAWOG has continuty though tbf. How does it fail? Like hell even Regular Show tried to be deep later on and no one said f that ailed.
I disagree with comparing bumblegum to Stolas . The show doesnt hide bumblegumm is a messed up person they openly call her out as issue like with flame princess,marceline ect . infact there are episodes where PB had to self reflect on her actions in the later scenes learning to understand emotions since she spent time as a ruler subgating her people ,she never really knew a relationship which is what makes her interesting
I think the Princess Bubblegum comparison comes in because she rarely faces consequences for her actions. This is someone who has committed literal genocide and faces no punishment for it. Many of the most heinous acts of the show are committed by PB, but she's never treated as a villain. Same with Stolas, he's done horrible things but the show wants you to like and pity him regardless.
If I can play's devil's advocate for Princess Bubblegum, her messed up moments come from a place of caring TOO MUCH and wanting the best for her kingdom, and TO BE FAIR, she did manage to maintain a good amount of peace and order compared to all the other crazy things and places going on around her. Stolas? His mistakes come from a place of being a bloody mess who has no idea what he's doing and can't keep a simple promise to a loved one. "Well, he's an abuse victim and abuse victims can be inconsistent!" don't give me the realism crap to defend Vivziepop's writing, I can start using the realism card to defend any bad character writing. He's just a guy who promised his distressed daughter that he would never abandon her, and then goes on live TV to be publicly executed to save his lover instead of letting him face the consequences of his actions (Blitzo absolutely brought it upon himself, sorry fans). Personally, that was the last straw for me. Where's the positives in that? What's admirable in that? What's the advantage? It's just a shitty professional fanfiction. I'm so fed up with Stoliz and how much it harms the writing and characters. I refuse to watch Sinsmas (or whatever the following episode is called) if it doesn't have Octavia deciding to cut all ties with him for breaking the promise. I swear to god, I may break things if I hear Octavia vomiting copium nonsense to forgive him or making excuses. Stoliz is a virus that ruins everything it touches and makes characters act dumb to support it, and I'm sick of pretending it's not.
@PlanetZoidstar The closest thing to outright genocide she did were the Rattleballs who were cutting up the candy people Again unlike Stolas there is a logic to her actions she's a thousand years old being who along with her kingdom, survived the hostile environment that is known as OOO and they survived through her leadership
In the pilot Stolas was planned to be an outright villian according to what Brandon (Blitz VA) said at a con, it was changed into a romance later. So yeah, the while series did a complete overhaul just for one character. But they still kept the creepy "have sex with me or lose your job" predatory deal they never mention in the show anymore. Intresting
I wanted to keep going, i wanted to give the show the benefit of the doubt, so many times during season 2. Sinsmas was the breaking point for me. At this point i don’t have faith that Viv can execute everything she set up properly anymore. I really don’t like Millie being pregnant because i don’t believe Viv can pay off whatever is going on here. 100 side characters that do nothing other than eat up time and take away the development the main characters should have, and Stolas….god i loathe him in season 2. Ah yes let’s woobify him making him completely innocent of all wrongdoings he made. He’s a bad father? He’s simply trying his best. He cheated on his wife? He’s miserable so it’s fine. He’s condescending towards Blitz and made him feel used? Nah nah, it was Blitz who did wrong look at all the people he screwed over in apology tour! Fuck Blitz, but pity the owl! He did nothing wrong! Seriously I’m happy Octavia got fed up with him. Put her in a better show please she deserves better. I wanted my silly demons killing stuff with a side of drama. Not the Stolitz show. I watched it from day one, but there comes a point where there’s too many plot holes, too many inconsistencies, too many excuses to the point where you just decide to walk away. Sorry it’s a bit rambly, but this is coming from someone who’s been a fan for a long time, and is fed up with the direction it’s going.
I know that a lot of the ""Fanbase"" surrounding H.B are fans that were either kids growing up, or are kids currently growing up. And yes, i call the adults "Kids" as well bc they definitely act like one most times -_-
As someone who has been in and out this kinda fandoms,I agree.A lot of the chaos I saw can be boiled down to fandom people being so immature. There are actual kids/preteens that doesn't know how to act yet (but not all of them are like that,but it's usually the loudest since they're bombastic) but then the adults that are supposed to know more aren't even mature either & they don't care about being cautious about the kids since it's the internet where most people are anonymous & can get away with almost anything. All of those things combined is what makes the space so lawless,chaotic and sometimes straight up weird. Sorry for the long rant/vent.
I never understood people who argue by saying "Well it's an indie show and they're on a time schedule, you can't criticize it" as if they changes the fact that you made your product public. To quote Mr. Enter. "A budget of $0 and a time limit of 1 day, doesn't change what the final product is. Everything ever created had a troubled production in some way." If this show was produced in a more timely manner by a big studio, you think that's gonna fix the problems people have with this show? No. This show could've had million dollar budget, it could've had a 1 dollar budget but that's not gonna fix people's problems with the writing.
Agreed. I love Murder Drones and TADC, but even I have some criticisms for it (ex: Murder Drone's pacing, TADC's dialogue (at times) etc. You can still really enjoy something and still realize that there are things that can be improved.
Arcane cost 250 million dollars, wasn't trying to be both a comedy and a musical soap opera, and had some much more rushed storylines. I think people who want to watch ambitious animation have to understand that the better the animation, the more rushed the storylines. I think Helluva writing has made some mistakes in pacing but it's still a better show than most adult cartoons and is only being labelled as fanfic because it's independent, written by a women that you can put a face to, has a lot of LGBTQA+ characters, and is free on youtube so easy to make content about, not to do with the actual quality of the writing. Helluva Boss criticism from people who should have just stopped watching at episode 2 has become a content mill at this point.
@@hildegarde7962 Thing is, arcane was done by competent writers with experience. But if we wanna compare, Monkey wrench, while very… strange and I’m still unsure of some of the world aspects, does way better writing wise than Helluva. And is well animated and designed. Helluva can be comedic and be musical but while the songs are fine and designs are good, the writing needs someone to put their foot down and make it do sense. If you can’t answer a plotline “whys” more than 5 times, it needs work
@@dcscruz2970 I’ve looked up Monkey Wrench and the animation is pretty good. Don’t know what it’s about. I’ll try watching an ep at some point. Personally, I think the criticism Helluva gets is way out of proportion for its flaws in writing. I do wonder what the key ‘whys’ are that aren’t being addressed. I may agree, though at the same time i’ve heard enough criticism that comes from a place of impatience, poor media literacy or having personal head-cannons not met.
I'll be honest, I just don't like that show, I tried to sit down and watch it, a good ammount of people told me that it was really good, and honestly, it felt really boring...the worst part is that a friedn of mine told me that if I watched the whole thing, he would watch a show of my choosing, he couldn't even watch the 3rd show because he would "get sick" from it
It's funny this is called Professional Fanfiction, cause it honestly reminds me a bit of Fifty Shades of Gray (I didn't read or watch it but that's not the point), namely that both media were essentially taking something, either Twilight or characters from Christianity, and then changing names or personalities, to prop up a very toxic love story that's poorly written and almost no one likes. Helluva Boss is effective the animated equivalent to Fifty Shades.
Do you have some recommendations that invloves IMP killing humans? Most fanfics I found are only about romantic drama or familial issues, just like the canon.
Your so on point it hurts. I called this show out years ago that it was just a fan-fiction with a bigger budget. Story and character gets tossed aside in the name of romance drama. And the characters have been essentially changed into nothing like they were from earlier. The wasted potential is endless. Ozmodias and Fizzarali came off as intimidating potential antagonists in their first appearance to being regressed into Tumblur fanfics. Striker went from a calaculating menancing threat to generic egotistical vain antagonist #509, Stella and Octavia essentially went on to have literally no other character traits beyond "crazy ex" and "sad daughter", Moxxie's character changes depending if he needs to be a punching bag for an episode and Millie still doesn't really have any character arc. Stolas went from the enigmatic patreon of IMP to a whiny lovelorn debutante that we are essentially forced to sympathize with and the list goes on and on. And the show STILL doesn't have a solid plot beyond a wll-they-won't-they relationship between Stolas and Blitz.
I don't get how Verosika, a succubus, can talk down to Blitz when she's the one who hosts a party annually all about hating him for "breaking their hearts", especially after what she and her gang did to Moxxie. Even if it was a joke, it was still sexual assault... yet Hazbin Hotel wants us to treat SA seriously? Like, don't they say at one point that at most, a lot of the people at the party are people Blitz maybe had sex with like, once, and then bounced? Does a one night stand not exist in Hell, because that's pretty normal in the mortal world. It just feels like a poor attempt at saying how bad of a person Blitz is when the reality is, sure he has his issues, but they're exaggerating this to make Stolas the victim.
The character regression is a good point, but I think it's even wilder that I straight up forgot we had had like multiple episodes centered on Fizzaroli until I saw the clips you had in this video bc he's been straight up gone. So many things just set up with no follow-up bc they kept introducing new ideas. Lord forbid they actually try to drive Blitzo's character growth by talking to one of his friends who is in a healthy relationship.
A problem I feel like doesn't get addressed enough is how wasted the cherubs are as characters. They could have and should have been recurring characters that popped up several times as rivals to IMP where sometimes the cherubs win in saving humans and sometimes the imps win on offing their targets depending on the storyline. Instead they get kicked out of heaven in their first appearance, and have only reappeared once in the second season and are not used very well there either.
It’s literally like a fanfic centred around one ship and they occasionally remember “oh yeah I included other main characters in the tags” 10 chapters in. There’s genuinely helluva fics written better than the show
I wish they just let Stolas be the classist/racist noble who got with an imp for the sexual thrill, have him realize it and work on it, delve into his subconscious bias etc, and have him work on those issues to become better… not just pretend he it was never like that. That… kinda kills all the potential for character growth and drama.
As someone who really liked S1 of helluva boss, your video is a literal godsent. I'm a very literal/logical person and so the inconsistencies in the show really frustrated me, I agree with your opinions on a lot of points!
In apology tour Dennis and Stolas aren't Blitz's exes. I don't think theose were Blitz's exe just some demons that spent short time with him. Apology tour was forced, hypocritical, inconsistent and retconning bullshit. I also hated Verosika because she was a hypocrite along with Stolas in that episode and also spiteful.
Even though I still like the show, I admit that Vivziepop's show have issues... Helluvaboss seems to always try to take the "easiest" route possible...like Satan wanting to have lunch so bad, just so that the court will be over in the 29 minutes episode and Stolas "happens" to see the court just in time (like Andrealphus' big plan was to kill Stolas/strip him off his powers but his plan revolves around the chance that stolas might see the court on TV) or making Stella such a vain and evil character that Stolas negative actions (cheating, using Blitz for his own gains etc.) don't have to be adressed and even can be seen as "justifiable" Another big problem Helluvaboss (and probably Hazbin Hotel in the future) has is just too many characters... like why was Vassago introduced to defend Stolas when they could have given all his dialogue to Asmodeus who not only already interacted with Stolas but also understands his struggles ?
why does Stolas have to be a good person?? ummmm, because they changed his character from the pilot to the first episode.??? originally he was supposed to be a VILLAIN
This show is so frustrating. On the one hand, as a fellow 2000s edgy deviantart baby, the show's art style lights up the lizard part of my brain in a way that I can't fully explain. Also, I do really like the original cast when they interact with each other, I think the first season and the recent shorts were really good and a fun watch overall. On the other hand, I am so tired of Stolas being constantly pushed to the front of the story and the original cast being ignored and set to the side so Vivzie can constantly introduce MORE and MORE characters at random while also turning Bird Boy into a pwecious baby that can do no wrong. We didn't even get a Millie focused episode until the end of season 2 and it felt like too little too late. I literally remember her telling Blitzo that he was her best friend and yelling "BITCH, WHEN!!???" at the screen. Like you guys have never acted in any other way then coworkers on decent terms with each other and you expect me to believe that? I'm also terrified that she's gonna force in some weird abortion subplot with Millie, something that literally nobody wants to see. Like it's giving me nightmare flashbacks to that infamous Zootopia comic. Regardless of what she does with it, I don't think she has the writing chops to handle it in an interesting or respectful way. It really feels like this show has been turned into a daytime tv drama.
I think liking Hazbin over Helluva is also related to tone. I have lots of critiques of hazbin hotel too. But the cartoon started on a more serious note that's about saving and redeeming people seen as nonredeemable. While that ends up being a comedy point you want to believe in Charile and her goals because she's actually a nice person. With Blitz, Stolas and Imp everyone is a murderer whose usually down to kill random families. Which WORKS fine with the premise of wacky and evil imps doing silly jobs but ends up feelings wild when the focus becomes one of family ties, abuse, relationships and the like. Stolas was supposed to be the thirsty bird man. Blitz was supposed to be an asshole. Tonally it feels weird when we're supposed to suddenly sympathize for them.
i’ve disliked characters in many different pieces of media, but i don’t think ANY of them have ever gotten under my skin the way Stolas does. it sucks because he was so interesting and morally questionable in season one, and i was excited to see where the show would take his and Blitz’s toxic relationship. unfortunately season 2 bends over backwards to retcon or justify every hurtful thing he’s ever done, and even when he’s being called out, like by Blitz at the end of Full Moon, the show chooses to focus instead on how being yelled at makes Stolas very sad, and wants us to think Blitz is being too harsh (even though he’s 100% RIGHT). the denial of the reality of Stolas’ actions in season one makes me feel crazy, like Blitz is being gaslit by Stolas and i’m being gaslit by the writers. i stuck around to see if maybe things could be salvaged by the end of season 2, but it’s safe to say i’m letting Helluva Boss go now. the show had so much potential, and now i’m embarrassed to admit i was ever invested.
Season 2’s dedication to Uwu-fiction of Stolas and retconning many aspects to put him in the write because they want him to be held accountable for his actions He cheated on his wife? “Oh well actually his wife was born evil and she’s a evil woman who likes to torment this poor gay owl” Stolas is a bad dad who repeatedly prioritizes his bootycall over his daughter? “Oh well he’s trying and dad’s try”
"He's trying!" says the lower class hellhound who spent almost 18 years in the foster-care system, where she certainly would've had her fair share of bad dads. Loona is like, the one character who would NOT be this eager to defend a royal dad she barely knows outside of when he creeps on Blitz.
Exactly Like Loona and Stolas have never interacted She should not be this ready to stand up for that dude since all she knows about him is being her dad’s bootycall Plus she was a victim of how royals don’t care about lower class since reminder, Bee runs the Hellhound Pounds so she was suffering in a shitty living space because of royals
@teabur4043 Ngl, Seeing Stars gets worse when you consider the thumbnail makes it look like a Loona and Octavia episode, but they only interact for one scene and most of the rest of the episode still focuses on Stolitz.
This is one of those series where I am more interested in the world building dynamic then the actual story and characters. I rather know more on how hell actually works in this world then anything else.
glad I abandoned this show after the western episode destroyed striker's character, I was already noticing cracks, I've seen shows I've loved crumble before.. The Walking Dead, Rick & Morty, Good Times, Dallas, I'm too tired to watch another beloved show turn to dust.
I hate it when shows introduce a character as “someone who has done something TERRIBLE in the past”, and then reveal that it was actually a misunderstanding, an accident, or someone else’s fault (and that person is the “irredeemable baddie of the show, who ironically never gets any depth or character growth).
Here from the tweet by Uninformed Artist! And glad I saw this recommended too, you do a great job providing constructive criticism. You give HB a fair shake throughout! Fellow Stolas hater 💖 (sad, because I loved him as a horrid little sleazeball in S1)
Little bit off topic but I don't like when shows or franchies just hit a 180 on their premise For example Helluva: 3 demons decide to prove their worth by running an assasination company to get revenge on peope who caused or played a role in the death of sinners. Then became about an owl having an annoying ass ex wife and being sad Hazbin: Princess of hell runs a hotel to save damned souls became Heaven vs Hell MCU: A squad of superheroes defend the multiverse became lol Gen Z humor(seriously Iorn Man to Endgame along with Far From Home and No Way Home and then She Hulk and Thor Love and Thunder fell like TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT series) DCEU: Again a squad of superheroes defending the world became The Harley Quinn Show with some random side characters here and there with bearly any Justice League
4:02 that's literally what happens with Hazbin Hotel. My brother in Christ you can't be this hypocrite. Hazbin started as "I want to redeem sinners" and became "holy war between hell and heaven." To watch that I'd prefer Supernatural.
It went from being Invader Zim meets Smiling Friends, Villainous and even Dan vs to a shameless Bojack Horseman rip off meets season 3&4 of Star vs the Forces of Evil.
Since Vivzie is sticking to her guns with season 2 of Helluva Boss and now says that the pilot is not cannon, I think it may have been better if she gave Helluva Boss a soft reboot and start again because the majority of season 1 contradicts season 2. I guess the later half if season 1 fits better with season 2 more or less, like from ep. 5,6,7, and 8 if you tweek them a bit, especially with Stolas' character. Infact on Stolas' character, he is a big reason why the show needs a soft reboot because since Ozzie's especially, he's such a different character - it's like Vivzie started to do actual research on him by that point and wanted to do damage control on her verson of Stolas to make him more wholesome and a victim of sercumstance instead of a sex crazed maniac who looks down on Blitzø. Who knows if giving this show a restart would've been a good thing to do at the time because back then it seemed like she still had to prove herself and restarting her show midway would've been a bad look and waste everyone's time and money but its clear she and Brandon wanted to create a love story with Stolas and Blitzø and have Stolas be more innocent and simply playing onto Blitzø's dirty sex talk while not understanding the issues around that,(and have social issues in general while still being well meaning) while the original Stolas was very aware of the issues but did it anyway and Blitzø was more of the victim rather than someone who fights back, even towards Satin himself and Hell's society. As a Stolas fan I understand the contemption that haters have towards him, it took me a long time to warm up to him and that wasn't until he showed depth as a character but he is a huge reason why the show is a mess because hos character is a mess and contradicts himself. In order to have the show to haveva chance of working moving forward now, it needs to restsrt from scratch with the character's motives and personalities fully understood by the writers and have them developed naturally. Stolas and Blitzø clearly are the stars of the show and we're meant to sympathise with them and see them as flawed but well meaning and we're now meant to be engrossed in their love story and support it but the writing has messed that up so badly that the show needs to start again. Also make the other characters matter! Especially Octavia and Millie!
"the pilot is not cannon" than what the point of 1,2,3,4 and other episodes then? do they just appear out of thin air? basically this is when you literally do everything you can to shit all over you show.
I didn't like helluva boss solely became about stolitz and how they must to be together, when they're very toxic couple, litterally stolas was in the hospital and blitz did not visit him. And the whole fantom said..aww he just hates himself so it okay blitz leaves him unread . Bruh this will not float in real life. I hate that blitz like stolas from act of guilt , cuz he never once showed any genuine feelings to stolas...it feels forced
If u wanna make it about a ship atleast make it more sense, it felt wrong for me to ship these two, cuz blitz had no interest and stolas was obsessed, I wish the show focused on IMP business wasted potential
Finally, someone who criticizes the show for valid reasons and not just blind hate Don't get me wrong, I will always love Helluva Boss, but I agree that some decisions are questionable Nice vid
One main thing that bothered me is that people in hell can do whatever they want, but for some reason, they try to paint what stolas did as one of the worst things because it's blitz. It's like they tried to rehash the angel/valentino plot, but it just didn't make sense to me😅
I'm just wondering how much longer this show can go on with this poor writing. I mean the music, animation and voice acting can't carry this show forever.
May I just say that I 100% agree with the thumbnail? The last episodes of season 2 felt like PURE fanfiction (minus Ghostf**kers). I loved Helluva Boss before season 2 because its writing was more cohesive and fun. But now we have Blitz and Stolas swooning for each other because they suddenly love each other when that wasn’t really established before? The way I was CRINGING during Mastermind when Blitz and Stolas were singing to each other because it felt EXTREMELY forced… ugh. I could rant about the pure fanfiction that was the Helluva Boss finale. It disappointed and frustrated me because this show has SO much potential and the creator decided to throw it away in favor of toxic doomed yaoi. 😔 Also: Vivziepop kept insisting that Stolas would be called out for his toxic behavior towards Blitz. Were Mastermind and Sinsmas *supposed* to be that? Because all I saw was Stolas taking the fall for Blitz and then Blitz doing the same against the fight with Andrealphus…but they *never* talk about what happened and we never got a proper apology from Stolas. I’m just so confused because it shows that Stolas hasn’t changed. He’s still entitled and blind to his wrongdoings, so what has changed exactly?? I hope I’m making sense here.
This might sound harsh, but...I think all the success Vivziepop has is wasted on her. This is someone who has levels of success most indie creators can only DREAM of. Yet she refuses to improve her craft. In fact, her writing gets WORSE over time. Unlike Vivziepop, there are other indie creators who would actually take the time to listen to criticism and refine their work. THEY would make good use of the resources available to them. But not Vivziepop. And it's beyond frustrating.
It sounds mean to say it out loud, but its the unfortunate truth. Viv got to high up too quickly and seems to have gotten a big ego about it. Then refuses to listen to criticism and improve her work since her fans will eat anything she feeds them anyway.
@yourlocalmoron4832 100% true. Glad to see I'm not alone in my thinking. I truly do believe that Viv is quite talented and has worked hard to get to where she is, and I'm happy that she's successful. And I genuinely like her shows. But at the same time, I'm frustrated with her, like a lot of other people. She could do SOOOO much better, but instead of listening to people's concerns, especially the concerns of the people that are funding one of her two biggest projects, she's just doing whatever she wants without a care in the world as to how anyone else is going to feel about it. This attitude of hers is only going to bite her in the end. I think it already has, actually, as more and more people are dropping her content...and rightfully so.
@@chimanruler15Her attitude would be justified if she was, like, self funded and 100% self indulgent (like fanfiction authors who commission art for their stories) or something because then she would only be wasting her own money and the money of fans or investors (deserved, because investors suck and they can go suck a lemon) who trusted her in being capable of writing something competent and enthralling instead of edgy teen drama filled to the brim with inconsistencies and flimsy logic/justifications for her characters action, the less said about the lack of consequences the better.
I’ll just say it, as much as I hated them, I could forgive Exes And Oohs and Western Energy, they had potential, but unhappy campers…. By the name of all that is evil, that episode was so bad it should have been straight up shelved entirely, even if it was complete. That episode was unreleasable in its current state. I felt like I was going to go insane and murder someone, that’s how awful it was.
To be honest, Mammons Magnificent Musical and Ghostfuckers were the only episodes here I truly enjoyed, and even the latter has quite a few issues. (I loved Rolando though.)
stolas ruins most of the show for me. his character is all over the place and frustrating, and he directly also affects blitz's character and sends his writing all over the place as well when they're the main focus, I just can't pay attention. they bore me
I understand exactly why this comparison happens, but I really wish people would find a better expression for it than "it's like fanfiction". The thing that feels "like fanfiction" about these Helluva Boss episodes is that they're all payoff and either too little setup or the wrong setup. And yes, a lot of fanfiction is deliberately, purposefully like that, because the setup is either in the canon (but with a payoff people find unsatisfying and want a different version of) or in ascended fanon (such as a popular fan theory that the fic itself does not need to go out of its way to establish). It's a rewriting of a payoff in order to scratch an itch where the setup *exists*, it's just not part of that particular bundle of words on the screen. And of course, there are plenty of fanfics that do both setup and payoff for elaborate plots less closely based on canon. Writing a story with all payoff and bad setup isn't "like fanfiction". It's just bad writing.
I think the biggest failure of this show is the storyline of Blitz. I like those kinds of characters that did bad things, but it's still fun to follow them around. Whether it's comedic takes with shows like It's Always Sunny and South Park, or more serious shows like Dexter and BoJack Horseman. It's clear that Blitz was meant to be a BoJack type character, but they really don't go far enough to sell this idea of him being a shitty person who deserves to suffer these consequences. The whole conflict between him and Stolas doesn't work because they wanted to make it look like Blitz was a bad partner to Stolas when the relationship's flaws aren't presented well through the narrative they showed the audience. The show makes the mistake of contradicting their dynamic in order to make the drama "work" in the story.
It's stupid because they had a way better thing to hold Blitz accountable for... His treatment of Moxxie and blowing off imps money. But I garuntee you Moxxie will not comfront him and Stolas will probably comfront him on his money because it could only be him, to paint him in an even more positive light. I'm calling it now
Funny how everyone thought Stella would be a big antagonist and manipulate/poison Octavia's mind to ruin her relationship with her dad BUT STOLAS DOES IT HIMSELF SO STELLA JUST TURNS OUT TO BE A PETTY KAREN INSTEAD 😂
When you able to afford to produce a beautiful animation I don’t think writing would be worse than the animation but here we are with many shows having writing issues
For someone like me who tends to be a lot more casual, I still like the show. The show has flaws, HEAVY HEAVY flaws but it's not my job to be critical.
I honestly feel like a main problem I notice is that vivzie adds SO MANY antagonists without actually giving them a big role or fleshing them out, like striker for example, his character and story is really interesting but then he just gets thrown to the side and ends up literally working for royals when his character was all about taking down demon royalty, and then we got the dhorks (human agents) that havent shown up at all after the full moon episode, if the show focused more on the imp assassin premise then I feel like it wouldve been more focused on the dhorks and wouldve introduced more villians later on. I also think that the goetia characters SUCK, like stella was interesting until she just became annoying and stupid instead of manipulative, and andrealphus is just annoying as well and got so easily beat, vasago is legit just there, and stolas' dad literally NEVER even plays a role at all, if anything I feel like stolas shouldnt have even been a major character until the second or third season, he shouldve been like he was in the pilot, he was way more interesting and it wouldve been cool to see his character ACTUALLY develop instead of just being this "victim" that never takes accountability. And a side note about this show is that literally the only way vivzie adds angst is through daddy issues, blitz is probably the only interesting character to me at this point because his low self esteem and self sabotaging actually gets addressed and somewhat resolved and he realizes that hes done bad things, unlike other characters that barely get ANY depth or growth.
Back in the day I wanted to make a series but was afraid the plot was too similar to helluva and would get hate and accused of being a knockoff. I wish I have a Time Machine to tell my past self to make that series and not to worry, as the one thing slightly similar would become an afterthought of the show
Probably not too late for that. Besides, plenty of people are becoming very disappointed with Vivziepop for a variety of reasons, not just Helluva Boss, so I could say it is a potential audience awaiting to be tapped.
Honestly, nothing wrong with wanting to switch from Episodic to something more serialized. In fact, the romantic drama stuff can work. The problem is the fact the show time and time again makes baffling writing decisions, underuse characters to focus on the Romanic subplot, or just waste some time. Hazbin Hotel, while I still wished it focused more on the characters within the hotel and the hotel itself instead of suddenly entering a war between heaven and hell, indeed had more materials based on the hotel. Truth is, Im mixed on both these shows with how much they frustrate me so i cant really say Im in love with both these shows, but I wish Vivzie just take the time to rewatch her stuff and properly figure out what needs to be addressed. Because the pacing for both these shows sucks hard.
I've read a lot of fanfic and there is no better truth than "this is written like fanfic." I can see the tells, Viv lost the plot in her pursuit of making Blitz and Stolas a couple. Both of their characters begin to mainly revolve around each other and it hurts them. When they got together I got nervous because this is where most writers tend to go off the rails and accidentally screw up all their characters. I am confident Viv will go down this path too, if Millie's pregnancy reveal is anything to go by Though I can give her credit for how Octavia reacts to Stolas. It was surprisingly realistic, save for randomly bursting into song, but it's practically a musical now so I don't care The only thing keeping me watching this show is that my sister loves it
Literally,the fans of this show refuse to want to explore the problems of the show(like the creator herself),only wanting to care about Shipping,"cool looking"merch and probably...Rule 34,Yuck !
Especially the rule 34. Look, it happens in every fandom, but a lot of these fans can't open their mouth without writing down the most séxual7y charged, eye rolling shit with their saliva. It's no surprise though, the show uses that topic ( I have to censor it ) all the time for shock value. It's immature.
plenty of fans have spoken out about vivzies whole thing with rafael(i think thats his name?) apart from that, whats the problem with fans enjoying fandom things like every other fandom on the internet
Im working on my own helluva boss rewrite, it will have stolas be a villain, Blitzo and verosika get back together. Unhappy campers happens before harvest moon festival. Loona and her friends get screen time. Also loona and octavia friendship get developed. Sallie may join IMP (who appear much more before hand) The goat is adopted by blitz and join IMP. Cherubs and dhorks have more episodes setting up by themselves and together before a final battle with IMP. (2 eps for separate intro, 2 eps for developing each other and 2 for teaming up) Stella backstory is that is the past, she was unknowingly an affair partner of another couple. She now believes she must save blitz from stolas. Striker get killed off by a new villain (my oc, i dont like striker, he worked better a minor villain) Belphegor and Leviathan have episodes before mastermind. Leviathan ep have stolas get called by verosika and stella for his actions and Leviathan comments on stolas envy for happy couple. Belphegor ep is where the goat returns and accidentally summons her when trying to find blitz for help to fight the penguin. Mastermind is a two/three parter. (A full proper trial and parts of sinsmas, stolas powerless and homeless) Stolas and octavia do get to properly talk, but a spell is put on via to hate stolas. Sinsmas end with stolas hired by blitz and friendzone by him, but Blitz atleast promise to help save octavia. Stolas get redemption in the next season.
Not to be a party pooper, but can you write all of this in 20 episodes? It sounds you are adding more episodes, which sure, indie schedule would allow. But as an additional challenge, I would try to limit it to 20 episodes, just to show it is possible
I like some of those ideas (Stella being an ex-affair partner is an interesting concept) but others are defenitely there just to make things different. I don't see a reason to add the goat to IMP
8:23 also, nobody addresses what blitz said about octavia?? perfectly fine with screwing around as long as she's clean??? uhh... WEIRDO ALERT??? i dont care if "that was a joke", he said that IN CHARACTER, NOT SARACSTICALLY..??
tried to defend/excuse it in my mind as if blitz didn't know octavia, or stolas' age (prolly assuming he's in 40s or smth and octavia was an adult) but just... naaah
@YoungStarship He would know her age because he saw Stolas when he was a kid!! He'd know she was a kid, or at the very least out of his age range! So weird and gross 🤢
@@Irish_Does_Doodles but s1e2 is before s2e1 so i thought of that perspective. anyways, trying to get it on with the daughter/any relative of the person you're getting on with? nah champ
Doesn't seem they like taking risks in their story and take the more easier routes and try to solve every conflict within an episode, as what I've heard. I wish they would write the ships more seriously if that's supposed to stay a main focus, it feels way too sped up and failing to acknowledge faults within their characters. (Stolas.) By this, they neglect characters like Octavia and even Stella. These characters could have more attention onto them in order to make us care even more and give us more depth. Even with Millie, instead of just having her there to help Bliz and Moxxie, have her have her episode, give her character more dimension. Even when Loona's backstory was mentioned, it was focused on Blitz. It became *his* trauma instead of an episode focusing on her. And take risks with the writing, it isn't a small story, this has been promoted as a whole show (look at Hazbin.) If you're trying to live up to these standards you have to actually meet the minimum of your demand, but they refuse to listen to criticism and just get mad about it in a comment section or on Twitter. To be a good artist, you need to expand your own skills, especially if you claim to love something so much. If you want people to remain interested, you have to grow as an artist. It's as if they're afraid to acknowledge any of their plot, and honestly, don't plan a thing out.
Both Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel are shows that I really like but don’t love. They’ve got the pieces there to create two amazing shows, but just can’t quite fit them all together. And it’s the pieces that do fit that make me stick around and keep watching. Also Mammons is a 10/10 episode, best in the show by a fair bit.
I’ve never seen HB myself, but I’ve found that nothing can bring down an otherwise good piece of fiction faster than dissonance between what a show wants you to believe, and what it actually makes you believe.
Helluva boss and Hazbin Hotel both abandon their premise but I don't care much for them I actually only liked them because I was a massive fan of don't starve I hope one day that game gets an adapted animated show or something because it's rich with amazing lore and stories
i have a crazy theory the reason why HH is better then HB is cuz in HB Viv has full control ever the show if you see some people made a show and needed a big corporation to make it, they sometime dont have full control over it, for example Alpha Betas, 4 youtubers wanted to make a show so they gained like 1 mil from Kickstarter, then they asked adult film to make their show, but while making it, those 4 youtubers doesnt feel like they have control over the script, story, visuals, etc. theyere asked "would you rather this or that?" everytime, overall sometime big corporation dont allow you to add something to your show. so with that logic, maybe Amazon hired some writers that help Viv on making it, and with those writers they change/deny some of Viv's writings (for obvious reasons) cuz HH is technically own by amazon she cant do shit about it, and thats why HH is somewhat good but in HB Viv has full control, if a writer deny her writings, she can just say "Fuck your opinion! this is my work" im sorry to say this, but Vivzie isnt a good writer
Trust me, everyone's tried SOOOO hard to like this show LMAO. I just can't with the direction they're going and the huge blind spots they apparently refuse to address or attempt to fix. The season 1 and season 2 difference is night and day, and the first season imo was the biggest high.
4:01 when was Hazbin ever about redeeming souls? Lol boy do I have some bad news for you about where the next season will probably go (it won't be Vaggie and Charlie don't you worry about that)
No villain in her shows can compare to XANA from Code Lyoko, XANA says this in Ghost Channel of Season 1 that shows it/his flaw in regards to not understanding why Jeremie would go into the Scanner in real world to enter the Simulation Bubble in virtual world Lyoko and face his fear to rescue his friends "But it's not logical don't you see? He's much too scared to even try, I-I'm much too scared! If not then why havent I already done it?" and this is what Jeremie says in front of XANA and his friends who understand very well why Jeremie would face his fear and do it which the show also reveals how XANA isnt a godly being or perfect "Because I told you why, he's not infallible; XANAs knowledge of people is only approximative!" which again the episode is in the first Season and there's 4, the creators especially Sophie Decroisette who is the legit creator of the villain XANA explored this side of him early and she is faaaar better, she doesnt even have Social Media so you know how professional that woman is.
@@CorinXV Just to let you know, my introduction was 3 DVDs I got from Hollywood Video and I was interested because the cover art on a case for one of them stood out to me when I was a little kid, that's also how old I am.
@leomartz33 Yep, really impossible for me not to and my pfp is a true form made by VioletMadness, you cant see but it's a form with Gray skinned male Elf look, the Red glowing Eyes based on Possessed living creature's' eyes, razor teeth ofc, Silvery Hair that's feminine, feminine attire and yes XANA has stubble on chin which obviously XANA is genderless but prefers male with a voice that very deep, demonic & bit filtered and doesnt care for who or what he possesses which includes clothes as he's fine with females too including Sissi, that and I really love the form to point of roleplaying as XANA using a form integrating what VioletMadness had and that I did with Hazbin Hotel was when all we knew those like Velvette had the design with Lolita Dress and had my own hopes & dreams with the universe even believing the 3 V's had a mansion in Lust and how think their popularity in Pentagram City including Angel gives them special access as Angel is very popular, too bad it's more disappointing and the official shows have Sinners kept under any circumstance in that ridiculously small City & no work arounds for Sinners to be allowed to travel to lower Rings because it gets boring with characters kept in that 1 Ring and repetitive storytelling.
i really enjoy helluva boss, but being completely honest i ignore so much of the canon and just stick up with the theories so i wont get pissed at the writing. If anyone have a nice fanfic recommendation i accept btw
I heard it stated that Vivzie doesn’t know how to “kill her darlings” and I couldn’t agree more. Sometimes you can’t include every single character or interaction you want to see in your final project. Sometimes things need to be changed or wholly removed for the sake of the overall story. In both of her animated series, Vivzie has been derailed from the original plot to focus on the fan-favorite characters and concepts. She’s riding the high of having a huge fan base, giving Angeldust his own music video instead of Charlie and changing the entire plot of Helluva Boss to focus on the most popular ship. The pilots for these series were great, but the progression has been disappointing imo.
I like the characters better in helluva and the music too. But its way too fanfic and i hate they keep trying to make us like Stolas i dont like him and i dont like stolitz. I really didnt like hazbin bc all the characters were very one note and i was just really annoyed with the poor writing esp how we dont see charlie redeeming any sinners theres one ep about sir pentious and then a few episodes later charlie uses angel dust as an example and hes all of a sudden been changed off screen. I think the first season of helluva was better than the season of hazbin. But then in the second helluva season totally ditched the premise and made it a romance and godddd i dont like Stolitz!! Really annoying and disappointing
Guys, I have an idea. How about instead of rotting and hating on this show, let's just leave it in the dust. Instead, I'd like to suggest a show that I at least think is highly underrated and deserving of more attention. Hunter: The Parenting I think that this is a genuinely good show, in spite of the limited animation and more rigid artstyle. The reverse of Helluva Boss. May not look very pretty, but beneath it all, I think that there is a genuinely intriguing story, and a bunch of characters who are very likable, especially THE GREAT AND MIGHTY KEVIN
8:40 my only issue with this point is that unlike Stolas, Princess bubblegum is a much better executed character when it comes to acknowledging her flaws. Adventure time fully expects you to take away that she’s supposed to be a bad person and that she’s done many bad things; as the main characters mature and their perspective expands, so does the audiences. Do the writers do it perfectly? Not every time; but given her upbringing as a child that emerged from a post-post apocalypse, and she lived isolated in her own echo chamber for most of her 1000+ year life , and the few times she decided to trust people they either tried to betray her or had a falling out with her, which likely instilled that manipulative behavior, I find it unsurprising that she is the way she is. It doesn’t excuse her actions, but I find it way more empathetic that she is the way she is because she knows nothing else and when the consequences of her actions are finally shown to her face, she decides that she can no longer attempt to control every aspect of her life, and that she needs to let it happen on its own without her constant approval. She doesn’t just flip a switch and become good overnight. It takes a lot of practice and reflection to even make a little progress but it gives hope that she will continue to practice it. Is she a bad person? Most definitely. But is she a bad character? No, she’s one of my favorite characters in adventure time because of how flawed and messed up she is.
You can like Hazbin and hate Hellvua, it is your option, the fandom is far worse than any to date. Worse than MLP's, Steven Universe, fucking SONIC, like how can these fandom that have done so much but HH/HB done worse with half if not a quarter of the time. Also, Oct's has every right to be mad at her father as any living person, this fandom just wants anything to go in favor to their little ship. (Also, I've heard that Viv doesn't like Octavia and just making her bad on purpose, not taking that as fact but if it is true than why even make a daughter character in the first place?)
Cus she needed a Plot Device I guess? Thats all Octavia really is as it stands. Everytime she has shown up its always been alongside Stolas and Blitz. LIKE WTF DOES SHE DO ALL DAY?! Sit around the house and be sad?
@@Jdudec367 I dont think anyone should respond to you because you're gonna ignore and not care what they feel and be open-minded about their issues they have same as you would to me, I'm not coming back to respond because you're not worth it and having a discussion.
The business side has definitely taken a backseat to the romance drama
It’s literally the main reason why I was interested in this series in the first place, it feels like I’ve been scammed.
Right, I wish the focuses on it more
Frankly i am just done with the big gay bird having his big gay emotions and who is now in a relationship that driving full speed in to a fire factory carrying 6 tons of explosives. This is gonna end so bad for both of them.
I do not buy merch :) why would I? That stuffs more expensive than TADCs Merch....it's stupid...
yea a side-show made the main show. its so bad i just use my own headcannon that hazbin and helluva hell is 2030s 2050s earth and earth is 2018s earth. i mean the elite who plan agenda 2030 2050 even have a global EXTERMINATION planned to get it done!
You know, I think Unhappy Campers should have swapped Moxxie and Millie's roles:
Moxxie, due to being the most sociable and "normal" one of IMP, is the one everybody likes and gets along with (instead of him constantly being the butt-monkey of the show) while Millie, whose main talent is killing really good, is out of her element and can't get along with anyone (besides maybe edgy teens). Plus, the two don't know where their target is.
This would give Millie more spotlight and her having an inferiority complex (maybe even exploring more of her backstory like when she left home and life before Moxxie) with Moxxie being the one to comfort her like she's done for him before.
This is pretty smart. What if Millie had middle child syndrome, therefore wanting to prove herself as more than what people think of her as? She overworks herself to feel worthy, since that's what her parents taught her to respond with when she felt down.
That's a good idea. Moxxie is the most human-like demon in IMP.
this is acc pretty good since millie is always the one comforting/defending moxxie
Moxxie being desperate for attention from TEENS was so weird
@@suspiciousstar7547 exactly this. There’s so much that could be done with her character, but Viv seems to think that a character not having trauma comes with them not having any internal conflict.
I just can't fathom how some people wish for Octavia, a sheltered 17 year old girl, to be beaten and discarded away just because she's done with Stolas' behavior. You can still love someone and be upset at what they continue to do, family or not. Loving your child doesn't immediately make you a good parent. You have to put in the work too (ex: communicating with them properly, supporting them during hard times, bettering yourself, etc).
It's nice that Stolas is trying and while I do believe he does love her, that isn't enough I'm sorry. If Blitz failed to meet Loona's needs because of his affair with Stolas, everyone would be jumping on him and calling him a bad dad. But since the narrative never seems to hold Stolas accountable in the way they do with Blitz, no one should worry about that conversation ever occurring.
Right like bro she's a teen
i hoped no one hated her...well i hoped for nothing
For tho. She’s a KID
I'm really worried about Octavia, she was one of my favourites, but before this episode even aired I had heard that apparently on streams Stolas will become the mc and that they don't care about Octavia, that they will write her off as bad. Not seen this stream but if I do I will never watch this show again
@@Lucky_Lyra i will differ, yes, she is understandable in her reaction, but she is not a kid, she does not have 9, or 10, or 12, she has almost 18, she is a teenager
i still remember the countless rants me and a friend have had over this show. my personal favorite moment is when she said "if you watch the eps backwards the characters GAIN development!"
It's like she saw how Rose/Pink Diamond's character development happened in reverse but didn't understand WHY it worked like that lmao
The fact your friend ain't technically wrong is mad crazy
priceless
@@EagleTimberWolfher character didn't actually developed backwards, from a literal standpoint, we were just shown her development backwards, seeing her fully developed character first and ending with her undeveloped one.
@ That's literally what I meant when I said "she didn't understand WHY it worked like that".
Helluva Boss became so frustrating that It caused Sarcastic Chorus to "quit"! 💀
Lmao my jaw dropped when I saw that vid
@@CorinXV Watch it again. He didn't 'quit' b/c he hated the show, he did so b/c he hated having to come up with continuing controversies to b*tch about and just wanted to enjoy the show in peace.
Sarcastic Chorus really isnt that good of a video essayist. hes fine dont get me wrong but it was painfully clear he wasnt enjoying making videos for the show all season.
@@GregPrice-ep2dkhe also mentioned not enjoying where the show was headed?
@@GregPrice-ep2dkhe said he didn’t enjoy where the show was going so he didn’t want to critique it because he didn’t want to always be negative and repetitive
I dropped the show when the show's original main idea drifted away like my parents.
💀
😔
This comment gives some mad Octavia vibes. 😭
lmao
@@scampboxx fr fr
Helluva boss is written like melodramatic gay fanfiction of an existing villain of the week comedy cartoon. As if they stuck with the original pilot premise and this is just fanfiction for that
Hazbin Hotel is the same way. I find the idea of the princess of Hell wanting to redeem sinners to put them in heaven interesting, too bad they quit that halfway through the first season for an unnecessary war with Heaven that did not need to happen that completely contradicted the advertised premise.
@theunknowncommenter725 with Hazbin Hotel, I will give it some saving grace when it comes to the sudden war against heaven and hell. Instead of Hazbin Hotel being an indie show like Helluva Boss, it was picked up by Amazon Prime, a streaming service, and we all know how streaming services like to pick and choose what shows they want to keep going or discontinue, ESPECIALLY animated shows. So Hazbin Hotel, an aminated series, involving a LOT of 18+ topics and having a plot never used before, had to choose whether they wanted to take the risk of their show ending on a cliffhanger because Prime didn't greenlight any more seasons after season 1, so they had to rush the plot. This has happened before, specifically with The Legend of Korra and Nickelodeon, constantly telling the writers after each season that they weren't getting another season just for them to give another. This caused the writers to focus on trying to end the show on an actual ending instead of a cliffhanger, causing them to not be able to flesh out their characters like Korra's gang, and they had to do this every season with the fear of the show being ended on a cliffhanger. So I just hope this doesn't happen again with Hazbin Hotel.
Unpopular Helluva Boss opinion: the one who should have been supporting IMP shouldn't have been Stolas. It should have been Leraje. Leraje in the Goetia has been described as someone who spreads violence and dispute and can make anyone his lover and throw them away.
I've said it once, i'll say it again.
*The show doesn't take itself seriously enough!*
No matter how you slice it and dice it, many choices and themes of the characters should have been bound to hit more serious and dark tones, not to mention concrete consequences for the characters.
Instead we get the safest routes possibles, leaps of logic to make the plot work.
The latest episodes made me genuinely consider quitting the show for good. Many of the problems Blitz just walk away from, and *a problem that the protagonist(s) can walk away from, is a conflict the audience can walk away from!*
Did Vivziepop not expect us to goback to watch prior episodes
Forget about all those older episodes, they do not matter anymore. Stolas is an UwU good boy now who never does wrong!
No but apparently that's what happened, people act like Stella always being abusive was a retcon when it was implied to be the case in Loo Loo Land.
@@Jdudec367 but she had a reason to be mad, he CHEATED ON HER. Now, the show is making her a horrible person to justify Stolas's cheating.
@@jorami4838 Is that why she was mad? It's more so because that he negatively affected her reputation. No wrong she was always a horrible person, and no the story doesn't entirely justify Stolas's cheating not when it still hurt Octavia.
@@Jdudec367 Because she was screaming at Stolas and orders a hitman on him. It would be understandable in another show if it wouldn't be about murder professionals where Blitzo is screaming at Moxxie while making fun of him and the first client is a sinner, in a sympathetic light, who shots his cheating husband. I want to ask, where were we supposed to know?
I'd also like to add that they got inspired by Bojack Horseman. I kinda see that considering their treatment of Blitz. The difference is that Bojack is a complex character who had to face moral dilemmas and who sometimes made screwed up things. One of the most controversial scenes of the show was Bojack almost sleeping with his childhood friend's daughter who is a minor. Everything that lead up to this moment was well-written and we can understand to a certain degree why he did that while also understanding that it's awful and he is going to regret it immediately.
As for Helluva boss, it feels like they want to go for the same effect but don't really know how. Blitz was portrayed as someone who also did something terrible in the past but then it's revealed that it was moslty misunderstandings. For example, when Fizz learned that Blitz caused the fire, that injured him, accidentally he immediately forgave him. Verosika also seems to understand that Blitz was a bad boyfriend because of his mental health and since their last encounter the two seem to be on neutral terms. The show wants to portray Blitz as someome who made mistakes in the past but in reality none of them were deliberate
If that Bojack Horseman scene was written by Vivziepop,
Bojack would've been woobified and given a million excuses by the plot that absolves him of any wrong doing in the audience's eyes.
@Sappysappster yep
I've also read that Stealla was inspired by Beatrice Horseman. They really took an extremely nuanced character and turned her into a caricature villain. I think they plan on giving Stella a backstory but it would take a writing miracle to make her relatable
When was it implied Verosika thought Blitz was a bad boyfriend because of his mental health? It was still deliberate and pretty shitty of him to do. That's not even mentioning the other stuff like him stalking Millie and Moxxie and his past treatment of Moxxie in particular.
@@Jdudec367 I think in Apology Tour he says something like "how can anyone love someone like me?" implying that he has self hatred issues. He also left Verosika after she confessed to him because he felt insecure. Being depressed doesn't excuse the way one acts, don't get me wrong. From the writing perspective it feels like they tried to always put the blame on him (but when Stolas does something wrong it's not acknowledged (for now)) and also go for "oh poor baby! His mom is dead and his dad didn't love him! And now he hates himself!" in a way justifying what he did because he was in a bad place mentally.
As for M&M, I think it was an early gag that he spies on them because he is envious of how perfect their relationship is. When the show got more serious it became creepy in retrospect. It's a weird tone shift when Blitz threatens to "fuck Moxxie and his wife" in one episode and then has an entire bonding episode with Millie saying how he respects her. You can do edgy humor and drama at once but you need to be careful when you mix these elements. And the show feels messy in this area
Viv basing characters off of bojack horseman and turning them into 1 dimensional bricks is a insult to bojack horseman.
I honestly believe if the animation wasn’t as good as it is this show wouldn’t be nearly as popular as imo the writing has had a MASSIVE downgrade from season 1. They want to write complex characters and relationship dynamics but oversimplify and dumb it down, everything feels like an early draft stage.
I walk away every episode disappointed with the wasted potential. So many great ideas executed terribly. When people call it “fan fiction writing” they say that because it feels like it’s written by amateurs that don’t know how to write a compelling coherent well crafted story
Its pretty much the only reason I keep watching. It has moments (if you turn your brain off), but the animation is pretty good regardless.
@@icarue993I was thinking the same thing, I only watch because I’m invested in the story I used to enjoy. I can only “enjoy” the episode if I switch off all expectations and enjoy it for what it is, which is half baked slop
@@eggburt6169 In one ear, out the next. Its an enjoyable 30 minutes, but I won't remember much of what happens later (as I have discovered by arguing in the comments :P )
Compared to The Mazing Digital Circus which is so well crafted (an animated) it lingers in my mind for longer
I disagree seson one was vary south Park like. The pilot was all jokes, no plot, we are actually sincerely focusing on the caricters,
Simply put over the top edge, where nothing matters to sincere charicter drama,
I really don't like stolas and blitz relationship because it feels like they want us to feel like stolas is lowering himself sooo much by being with blitz. And the last episode just make me feel that way soo much especially with the hug and everything. They're not a great couple and that's ok, we all love drama. But you can't present them in such a bad light and expect me to love them or root for them. Idk
They got back together too soon too. They never got a chance to address the issue that caused them to break up, but the trial incident forced them back together
@@QueenMariposa5exactly, and what makes me even more mad is that Stolas never reflected on his behavior. He never apologized to Blitz and said, "dang, I was undermining you I'm sorry I made you feel that way", or whatever. Like I get that Stolas is all in ruins rn, but Blitz is literally letting you stay in his home, you couldn't apologize for how shitty you've treated him??? 😭
The fan theories about the appearance of Barbie Wire before unhappy campers came out was way more interesting. The theory of Blitz crashing into Barbie’s happy life by having to try and kill her husband has such an interesting conflict. It felt like a lost opportunity just like the handling of the character Stella, whom could have placed such an interesting nuance with the infidelity.
Barbie Wire frustrates me as much as Stella because the show tells us that she and Blitzo used to be close, but never has her show up in any flashbacks. Fizzaroli feels more like a sibling to Blitzo than Barbie does and that's probably because Vivziepop's allergic to expanding on her female characters.
My friend ABSOLUTEL YES!
That alone has so much potential! Hellborns having relationships with humans is such an interesting concept!
You could make an entire series about an hellborn woman (Barbie Wire) deciding a good life on Earth with a good husband is worth breaking the rules of Hell, escaping the dystopic landscape of the Pride Ring and risk the wrath of Satan and Heaven!
...but instead we got "she's smuggling drugs to Hell and waving her butt to the camp counselor to bribe him" -__-
With Helluva Boss, instead of exploring complex morally grey characters ,in a fascinating dystopic setting like Hell, where you HAVE to make compromises to survive and things you wouldn't be proud of, we ended up with *"characters that are good but flawed people OPPRESSED BY THE SYSTEM!*
Fking...kill me...
I think after season 1 when the creators saw how much the fans loved Blitz and Stolas they shifted the tones and ideas for season 2
They started to do that in season 1
Just like the Cherri Bomb x Sir pentious situation.
Originally Sir Pentious and Rosie were gonna be a thing....but Viv saw the fanart and basically threw her original Idea into the garbage...
Not to mention Stolas was, note WAS, supposed to be an Antagonist :'>
I didnt have a problem at the time....
Until it became how it is and just unnecessary melodrama, I'm already over Official Stolitz to point of fan stuff now and done since Hazbin and promise Viv made before Hazbin was announced with the Trailer she values good faith criticism. Also it's just tiring with all the juvenile use and extent of adult stuff and swearing, I'm not 10 or think swear words and vulgarity is funny & "best thing ever" to want to see again constantly or into writing like Viv's.
@@artistanthony1007Ikr, it was interesting in season 1 because it focused on Stolas and Blitzo's relstionship being a mess that brought out their worst flaws and reopened their bad memories.
@@limedemon6664 That certainly explains why Sir Pentious and Cherri Bomb had absolutely no chemistry whatsoever.
Helluva Boss is no longer an indie animation. In the last few episodes the credits says they hired Toon City to outsource some of the production.
also the way we are meant to hate Valentino but love Stolas is just so flat out insulting. Like think about it stolas sexually coerces blitz, talks down on him, treats him like garbage but we are meant to think it’s the VICTIMS fault? That’s just flat out disrespectful and I’m not an assault survivor but I would imagine making the abuser the one in the right is at least a little fucking icky.
says a lot about who Vivian is a person honestly, the woke have no morals.
Stolas doesn't sexually assault Blitz for the sake of making pornos.
@@jeremyallen5974 You’re right, Stolas doesn’t do that. Instead, he forces Blitz into an imbalance relationship, infantilises him, makes unwanted sexual advances towards him, looks down on his entire race, and acts like it’s Blitz’s fault that he doesn’t reciprocate Stolas’s feelings. Just because it isn’t the same as Angel’s situation, doesn’t make it any less toxic.
THANK YOU for acknowledging the faults in Stolas's behavior. Also im a sa survivor and I 100% agree with you.
Stolas and Valentino may not be identical, but they BOTH coerce and make unwanted advances on their EMPLOYEES.
"Professional fanfiction" is probably the best way to describe the writing quality of Helluva Boss. Hazbin Hotel has similar problems, but I think it probably had the benefit of a more stringent editing process because of its strict episode limit and the fact that it was picked up professionally.
Oh my God!!! I like this term and it hurts me at the same time because there are very good ff and it is understood that a ff is an inferior form of writing (since it is not original and takes something already known as a base) But HB deserves this shameful achievement.
Hazbin Hotel 8 episode limit was terrible. They crammed literally eight seasons worth of story into 8 episodes.
@@theunknowncommenter725 Now that is one way to messed up a bible length story.
Dude, Stolas from season 2 is completely different than Stolas from season 1.
Fr they also made striker intimidating at first then just made him literally the same as any other character esp with that statue thing 😒 fizz and Asmodeus were also intimidating at first just to turn into an uwu sweet couple of babies
Is he? He was always romanticly into Blitz and was always kind of a poor dad.
@@Jdudec367 he's only been using blitzo to mess around, use and objectify him originally
True this new one cries too much
They changed stolis after the pilot, not in season 2. No rivisinisom, please
this show is slowly becoming the next SVTFOE ands it HURTS to see history repeat itself again!
it hurts to see history repeat again with SKlauncher a CRACKED launcher like Tlauncher that REQUIRES internet THATS HOW TLAUNCHER GOT INFECTED WITH VIRUS!!!!!
Those shows aren’t even remotely similar or the same wtf
@@______________url i think they're referring to both shows sidelining interesting characters, premises and plots for tepid romance drama.
calling it the new SVTFOE is an exaggeration tho, both because SVTFOE's fumbles are an entirely different level, and that even at its peak helluva boss was never regarded as highly as SVTFOE at its peak
As a former fan of Helluva Boss, the reason why I loved this show is because of their wacky and funny antics when they are doing their office work or being assassins. I like their dysfunctional functional dynamic and the animation is getting better and better each episode and seasons. Plus the songs! I loved the songs. they are the highlight of each episodes.
Now for the reason why I dropped the show.
I don't like how each episode doesn't connect, and the writing is getting bad each new episode. The writing feels like fanfiction and each character choosing dumb decisions just because they have to to progress the plot. It feels predictable, inconsistent, and dumb at the same time.
Even worse, I feel like they cherry pick what connects and what doesn't. Like Blitz and Millie's friendship? Pretty stable. Moxxie's cowardace and what SHOULD have been progression after his mafia dad, Truth Seekers and getting jealous? Nah. Keeping that so he's still kinda eh. Stolis being mad at Blitz? Keep that going normally.
What made me hate the show especially in the new episode is because what they did to octavia's character. They have already established on eps 2 season 1 that Stolas really has true feelings and care for octavia no matter what happens to them and on the episode "Seeing Stars" where Stolas personally find and tract octavia cements that he will do anything for her, but in the season finale for "Sinsmas" she just completely ditch Stolas even thou he had to do it to save blitz and clearly showing Stella and Andre laughing and mocking Stolas.
I liked the drama, but only from Loo Loo land to Ozzie's. The "drama" after that became ridiculous.
@@PiximaeI'm fine with that. At least Millie gets an episode and there's something other than Stolitz, even if it's, again, features another character and their internal stuff Millie have to solve ( I would love to watch an episode about Blitzo and Millie doing their job while bantering and having fun, she seems like the type of person who would do that and them being being friends and bonding over humor, unlike the more serious Moxxie, would make sense. And idk, they would do something crazy like stealing a zoo lion cuz why not? ). But it's still something. It wasn't even written by Vivziepop, Brandon Rogers cares more about it than her.
@@Piximae Moxxie did progress and become more brave and willing to stand up for himself though. He was still jealous though. They needed time away from each other and that happened. They really don't cherry pick what connects and what doesn't.
Stolas should’ve stayed as an antagonist rather than become Blitz’s supposedly legitimate lover
They completely changed Blitzos personality in the finale just to fit into the relationship thing which kinda says a lot about it
@@reain diodnt' change his personality he just felt more comfortable being surpportive of someone. not to mention the mofo literally gave up so much to literally SAVE HIS LIFE.
he was never a antagonist in season 1, if you mean the pilot, IT IS A PILOT
@@Sonic2024freedomera he was still not a positive character in 1st season more of a nuisance and an annoyance to Blitz
@@reain a villain needs to be something more than just not being a positive character, actually Stolas is a hero more than a villain, his only villanous things are being a neglectful father (which is not that negative if he is not intentional one)and basically all the book thing
HB was not advetised as a romance so that's why the audience feels justifiable betrayed. Only in episode 7 we actually start to get romance plot. Viv once twetted something in the lines of: "what's wrong if a show becomes a fanfic of itself?". We got the answear: braindead plot animated well.
I expected it to be bad, I did not expect “cheating is okay if it’s gay and and it’s bad when a woman does it”.
Also wow, how ironic that the most underdeveloped female character that Vivziepop insists has a lot of hidden depth is given a pregnancy plot. How much do you want to bet she’s going to be completely sidelined in the next season.
ALSO, sorry yall but I don’t think Stolas is actually going to apologize for being a bad father to Octavia. Did we forget what happened when Ozzie called out Stolas in “Ozzie’s” and Blitzo chewed out Stolas in “Full Moon”, the former didn’t even keep his energy and Blitzo was so thoroughly punished that it felt like he was being abused into falling for Stolas.
In fact that’s not even the first time she defensively said there’s nothing wrong with her writing feeling like fanfiction. She even called it homophobic when people used fanfiction as deragatory bc some queer people like it…. That’s like saying it’s homophobic to shit on Big Mouth because it has some queer fans.
This is a video from Flazefire about HB and he also has one of HH, they are very informative, I recommend watching them. ruclips.net/video/7tehtH-rg94/видео.html&si=GcmeFlppkDFsIJSJ
The tweets are at 26:00 mark and they go for a minute or so. One of the dates is december 1st 2024.
Well we all have to admit. Viv beat the record for "how to avoid to tell what are the fellings of a mother about her own kid". Right now she holds the record of 2 seasons or 20 cursed episodes.
I observed that while in Avengers there was only one way to end well, in every Vivziepop show there is only one way to end wrong and the writers bend over backwards to achive it. Example s2 e9 the fallout would have been avoided if eighter one of them did some gesture different and s2 e11 where no one in the court has a brain.
In other shower thoughts, with season 2 ending we can finally say that Unhappy campers WAS THE MILLIE EPISODE ALL ALONG, yes, not Ghost fu- which btw was written by Brandon. Let that sink in...how much Viv cares about Millie.
It just struck me: ep 2, 5 and 6 are pointless, ep 4 ruined Striker, ep 11 is the worst written trial in fiction (THE TRIAL FOR STOLAS, NOT BLITZ, THEY CAN'T BE FOR THE SAME CRIMES!!!) and ep 12 excuses Stolas further.
I won't defend these remarks, however I left out the true worst episode of the entire show, the one every new watcher should skip because the wrtiitng is so bad that retcons the entire show before and even worse, after it. This episode should have his own medal alongside other boring episodes because it should not exist. Ladies and gentlemen, the worst episode of the entire show, because it spoils everithing else without ever being referenced once after its air, is...THE CIRCUS...
Wait, Brandon wrote ghost f- no wonder that episode actually wasn’t that bad. Cause he’s like semi okay writer. Better on his own stuff though.
@@dcscruz2970 Well it was originally made by Viv, but after that episode leaked they re-wrote it and had Brandon write it instead.
But too your point, yes Brandon actually is super underrated when it comes to writing. (at least imo)
For me the worst episode was the first one of the second season because confirming that they are childhood friends only cuts off the potential of both as a couple. At that time HH had not yet been released and as I reached HB I had hopes that HB would be of a higher quality, you know "professional", and well HH came out and then well...
@@el-gonza yap, yap, all true, I totally get it. New viewers should definetly skip it.
@@el-gonza Tbh it's kinda of hard to say that HB isn't "professional-fanfic" because of Ep. 1 of season 2.... Speaking of which, what was the point of that entire plotline again!?!? Because I genuinely don't know.
I think the problem with Viv’s writing is that she has all of these plots and ideas and backstories for these characters already laid out and she doesn’t want to compromise any of it. All of her characters have stayed the same since the very beginning. Need a background character? Use an old OC. Need a new main cast character? Frankenstein a bunch of old OCs together. She had a plot, she had a promising story to be told, but she didn’t want to compromise any of Blitz’s trauma or backstory in order to keep the original premise going.
The criticism "So what? It's an indie animated series, it doesn't have to be amazing." is just idiotic given that fact we have Amazing Digital Circus, which is well amazing and has incredible character writing, not to mention it doesn't baby any of its characters, they all have to go through the ringer, and most of all it doesn't try to justify Cain or insists he is a good person, they don't vilify him either, he is pertained in the show as exactly what he is, a dumb glitchy AI that doesn't understand humans.
This is so frustrating because Stolas could have been a pretty decent morally gray character, if only the show didn't try to victimize him, made him face the consequences of his actions, and didn't make him into "poor Ovo victim owl boy". Octavia is 10000% right to cut him out of her life, and I so wish this would stick but we all know that VivzyPop wouldn't recognize good writing if it took a crap on her nose, so I bet in the end Via will be the one apologizing to Stolas for how awful he is, the same way Viv whipped Blitz, so he'd think that he was the one in the wrong and Stolas is the best thing that ever happened to him when the romantic relationship is the last thing guy needs right now (especially with that manipulative b*tch of a bird), he needs therapy insted.
And TADC is also pretty good at foreshadowing/setting things up for later. How bucket Kinger foreshadows how he feels comfortable in the dark. Ragatha's insecurities are not just random throwaway lines, but how she actually feels and is touched upon in ep4 (both of these things happen in the same convo). How Gangle is the butt of the joke (since ep1), and so the power trip she feels in ep4 is understandable.
I was surprised how something like the Grimoir is such an illegal thing that Stolas thinks he deserved the unalive penalty. I thought it lacked foreshadowing, as the first instance was mentioned in ep1 (when Stolas was WAY more of a villain, so it sounded more like coercion than anything else), but never again. It might have been a good idea to refresh us on that, but oh well. I think to enjoy Hella, you just have to shut your brain, or so the fans tell me.
@@icarue993 it was also mentioned in ep6 tho
@@YoungStarship when?
@@icarue993 after stolas pulled up in DHORK HQ to save Blitz (if YOU get in trouble, I get in trouble, and we DON'T want that)
Also on the note of TADC, ALL THE CHARACTERS HAVE BACKSTORIES!!!! Viv just...didn't do that for the Villains AT ALL :'>
The issue with HelluvaBoss is that it wants to have its cake and eat it too
It wants to be an episodic sitcom that's R-rated Looney toons, but it also wants to be a plot heavy serialized romance with character development and drama
If HB stuck to its original premise, I still believe it would've gotten slander (cuz Vivziepop writing L O L)
But to a lesser degree. Because at the end of the day "It's just a silly cartoon bro it's not that deep"
You wouldn't be mad that The Amazing World of Gumball doesn't have heavy continuity would you?
But HelluvaBoss WANTS to be That Deep
And it fails at it miserably.
the funny thing about gumball is that the lack of continuity is actually part of the lore and makes the show really interesting when they do tackle it
But TAWG has some continuity, right? Like Penny being out of her shell
I mean....cartoons have managed to be both episodic and serialized before I don't see wh Helluva Boss can't do that too.
TAWOG has continuty though tbf.
How does it fail? Like hell even Regular Show tried to be deep later on and no one said f that ailed.
@Jdudec367 Ive seen you countless times, I will not entertain your nonsense
Argue with a wall
@@Sappysappster It's not nonsense.
Ok then.
I disagree with comparing bumblegum to Stolas . The show doesnt hide bumblegumm is a messed up person they openly call her out as issue like with flame princess,marceline ect
. infact there are episodes where PB had to self reflect on her actions in the later scenes learning to understand emotions since she spent time as a ruler subgating her people ,she never really knew a relationship which is what makes her interesting
Say what you will about PB but AT knows that she's a flawed person where as Helluva Boss coddles Stolas
I think the Princess Bubblegum comparison comes in because she rarely faces consequences for her actions.
This is someone who has committed literal genocide and faces no punishment for it.
Many of the most heinous acts of the show are committed by PB, but she's never treated as a villain.
Same with Stolas, he's done horrible things but the show wants you to like and pity him regardless.
@@PlanetZoidstar And both of them get their lover in the end anyways.
If I can play's devil's advocate for Princess Bubblegum, her messed up moments come from a place of caring TOO MUCH and wanting the best for her kingdom, and TO BE FAIR, she did manage to maintain a good amount of peace and order compared to all the other crazy things and places going on around her.
Stolas? His mistakes come from a place of being a bloody mess who has no idea what he's doing and can't keep a simple promise to a loved one. "Well, he's an abuse victim and abuse victims can be inconsistent!" don't give me the realism crap to defend Vivziepop's writing, I can start using the realism card to defend any bad character writing.
He's just a guy who promised his distressed daughter that he would never abandon her, and then goes on live TV to be publicly executed to save his lover instead of letting him face the consequences of his actions (Blitzo absolutely brought it upon himself, sorry fans). Personally, that was the last straw for me.
Where's the positives in that? What's admirable in that? What's the advantage? It's just a shitty professional fanfiction. I'm so fed up with Stoliz and how much it harms the writing and characters.
I refuse to watch Sinsmas (or whatever the following episode is called) if it doesn't have Octavia deciding to cut all ties with him for breaking the promise. I swear to god, I may break things if I hear Octavia vomiting copium nonsense to forgive him or making excuses. Stoliz is a virus that ruins everything it touches and makes characters act dumb to support it, and I'm sick of pretending it's not.
@PlanetZoidstar The closest thing to outright genocide she did were the Rattleballs who were cutting up the candy people
Again unlike Stolas there is a logic to her actions she's a thousand years old being who along with her kingdom, survived the hostile environment that is known as OOO and they survived through her leadership
In the pilot Stolas was planned to be an outright villian according to what Brandon (Blitz VA) said at a con, it was changed into a romance later. So yeah, the while series did a complete overhaul just for one character.
But they still kept the creepy "have sex with me or lose your job" predatory deal they never mention in the show anymore. Intresting
I wanted to keep going, i wanted to give the show the benefit of the doubt, so many times during season 2. Sinsmas was the breaking point for me. At this point i don’t have faith that Viv can execute everything she set up properly anymore. I really don’t like Millie being pregnant because i don’t believe Viv can pay off whatever is going on here. 100 side characters that do nothing other than eat up time and take away the development the main characters should have, and Stolas….god i loathe him in season 2. Ah yes let’s woobify him making him completely innocent of all wrongdoings he made. He’s a bad father? He’s simply trying his best. He cheated on his wife? He’s miserable so it’s fine. He’s condescending towards Blitz and made him feel used? Nah nah, it was Blitz who did wrong look at all the people he screwed over in apology tour! Fuck Blitz, but pity the owl! He did nothing wrong! Seriously I’m happy Octavia got fed up with him. Put her in a better show please she deserves better.
I wanted my silly demons killing stuff with a side of drama. Not the Stolitz show. I watched it from day one, but there comes a point where there’s too many plot holes, too many inconsistencies, too many excuses to the point where you just decide to walk away. Sorry it’s a bit rambly, but this is coming from someone who’s been a fan for a long time, and is fed up with the direction it’s going.
This is what happens when they took away the premise of the show and also for romanticizing a woobifying dad.
I know that a lot of the ""Fanbase"" surrounding H.B are fans that were either kids growing up, or are kids currently growing up. And yes, i call the adults "Kids" as well bc they definitely act like one most times -_-
As someone who has been in and out this kinda fandoms,I agree.A lot of the chaos I saw can be boiled down to fandom people being so immature.
There are actual kids/preteens that doesn't know how to act yet (but not all of them are like that,but it's usually the loudest since they're bombastic) but then the adults that are supposed to know more aren't even mature either & they don't care about being cautious about the kids since it's the internet where most people are anonymous & can get away with almost anything.
All of those things combined is what makes the space so lawless,chaotic and sometimes straight up weird.
Sorry for the long rant/vent.
as a helluva fan i do not associate with the fandom for many reasons, that being one of them
Tbh, yeah. I was also a kid when I first joined these fandoms
I never understood people who argue by saying "Well it's an indie show and they're on a time schedule, you can't criticize it" as if they changes the fact that you made your product public. To quote Mr. Enter. "A budget of $0 and a time limit of 1 day, doesn't change what the final product is. Everything ever created had a troubled production in some way." If this show was produced in a more timely manner by a big studio, you think that's gonna fix the problems people have with this show? No. This show could've had million dollar budget, it could've had a 1 dollar budget but that's not gonna fix people's problems with the writing.
Agreed. I love Murder Drones and TADC, but even I have some criticisms for it (ex: Murder Drone's pacing, TADC's dialogue (at times) etc. You can still really enjoy something and still realize that there are things that can be improved.
Arcane cost 250 million dollars, wasn't trying to be both a comedy and a musical soap opera, and had some much more rushed storylines. I think people who want to watch ambitious animation have to understand that the better the animation, the more rushed the storylines. I think Helluva writing has made some mistakes in pacing but it's still a better show than most adult cartoons and is only being labelled as fanfic because it's independent, written by a women that you can put a face to, has a lot of LGBTQA+ characters, and is free on youtube so easy to make content about, not to do with the actual quality of the writing. Helluva Boss criticism from people who should have just stopped watching at episode 2 has become a content mill at this point.
@@hildegarde7962 Thing is, arcane was done by competent writers with experience. But if we wanna compare, Monkey wrench, while very… strange and I’m still unsure of some of the world aspects, does way better writing wise than Helluva. And is well animated and designed.
Helluva can be comedic and be musical but while the songs are fine and designs are good, the writing needs someone to put their foot down and make it do sense. If you can’t answer a plotline “whys” more than 5 times, it needs work
@@dcscruz2970 I’ve looked up Monkey Wrench and the animation is pretty good. Don’t know what it’s about. I’ll try watching an ep at some point.
Personally, I think the criticism Helluva gets is way out of proportion for its flaws in writing. I do wonder what the key ‘whys’ are that aren’t being addressed. I may agree, though at the same time i’ve heard enough criticism that comes from a place of impatience, poor media literacy or having personal head-cannons not met.
@@suspiciousstar7547 murder drones pacing and also the story is...well, almost it does not exist
I'll be honest, I just don't like that show, I tried to sit down and watch it, a good ammount of people told me that it was really good, and honestly, it felt really boring...the worst part is that a friedn of mine told me that if I watched the whole thing, he would watch a show of my choosing, he couldn't even watch the 3rd show because he would "get sick" from it
It's funny this is called Professional Fanfiction, cause it honestly reminds me a bit of Fifty Shades of Gray (I didn't read or watch it but that's not the point), namely that both media were essentially taking something, either Twilight or characters from Christianity, and then changing names or personalities, to prop up a very toxic love story that's poorly written and almost no one likes.
Helluva Boss is effective the animated equivalent to Fifty Shades.
The ironic thing is that some of the fanfics I’ve read for this show have far superior writing than the show itself.
Ikr. I was like, if this is fanfic writing, then the fanfic I've been reading is a professionally published novel lol
I LOVE TalosLives' Collin+Loona stories on AO3.
Do you have some recommendations that invloves IMP killing humans? Most fanfics I found are only about romantic drama or familial issues, just like the canon.
Can you reccomend a few please?
Your so on point it hurts. I called this show out years ago that it was just a fan-fiction with a bigger budget. Story and character gets tossed aside in the name of romance drama. And the characters have been essentially changed into nothing like they were from earlier. The wasted potential is endless. Ozmodias and Fizzarali came off as intimidating potential antagonists in their first appearance to being regressed into Tumblur fanfics. Striker went from a calaculating menancing threat to generic egotistical vain antagonist #509, Stella and Octavia essentially went on to have literally no other character traits beyond "crazy ex" and "sad daughter", Moxxie's character changes depending if he needs to be a punching bag for an episode and Millie still doesn't really have any character arc. Stolas went from the enigmatic patreon of IMP to a whiny lovelorn debutante that we are essentially forced to sympathize with and the list goes on and on. And the show STILL doesn't have a solid plot beyond a wll-they-won't-they relationship between Stolas and Blitz.
I don't get how Verosika, a succubus, can talk down to Blitz when she's the one who hosts a party annually all about hating him for "breaking their hearts", especially after what she and her gang did to Moxxie. Even if it was a joke, it was still sexual assault... yet Hazbin Hotel wants us to treat SA seriously?
Like, don't they say at one point that at most, a lot of the people at the party are people Blitz maybe had sex with like, once, and then bounced? Does a one night stand not exist in Hell, because that's pretty normal in the mortal world. It just feels like a poor attempt at saying how bad of a person Blitz is when the reality is, sure he has his issues, but they're exaggerating this to make Stolas the victim.
The character regression is a good point, but I think it's even wilder that I straight up forgot we had had like multiple episodes centered on Fizzaroli until I saw the clips you had in this video bc he's been straight up gone. So many things just set up with no follow-up bc they kept introducing new ideas. Lord forbid they actually try to drive Blitzo's character growth by talking to one of his friends who is in a healthy relationship.
Your not lying because I literally forgot he was in season 2 until I started getting clips to make this vid
I forgot all about the other rings too.
A problem I feel like doesn't get addressed enough is how wasted the cherubs are as characters.
They could have and should have been recurring characters that popped up several times as rivals to IMP where sometimes the cherubs win in saving humans and sometimes the imps win on offing their targets depending on the storyline.
Instead they get kicked out of heaven in their first appearance, and have only reappeared once in the second season and are not used very well there either.
It’s literally like a fanfic centred around one ship and they occasionally remember “oh yeah I included other main characters in the tags” 10 chapters in. There’s genuinely helluva fics written better than the show
I wish they just let Stolas be the classist/racist noble who got with an imp for the sexual thrill, have him realize it and work on it, delve into his subconscious bias etc, and have him work on those issues to become better… not just pretend he it was never like that.
That… kinda kills all the potential for character growth and drama.
Blitzo season 1: 🤪🤪🤪
Blitzo season 2: 😭😭😭
As someone who really liked S1 of helluva boss, your video is a literal godsent. I'm a very literal/logical person and so the inconsistencies in the show really frustrated me, I agree with your opinions on a lot of points!
In apology tour Dennis and Stolas aren't Blitz's exes. I don't think theose were Blitz's exe just some demons that spent short time with him. Apology tour was forced, hypocritical, inconsistent and retconning bullshit.
I also hated Verosika because she was a hypocrite along with Stolas in that episode and also spiteful.
Even though I still like the show, I admit that Vivziepop's show have issues...
Helluvaboss seems to always try to take the "easiest" route possible...like Satan wanting to have lunch so bad, just so that
the court will be over in the 29 minutes episode and Stolas "happens" to see the court just in time (like Andrealphus' big plan was to kill Stolas/strip him off his powers but
his plan revolves around the chance that stolas might see the court on TV) or making Stella such a vain and evil character that Stolas negative actions (cheating, using Blitz for his own gains etc.) don't have to be adressed and even can be seen as "justifiable"
Another big problem Helluvaboss (and probably Hazbin Hotel in the future) has is just too many characters...
like why was Vassago introduced to defend Stolas when they could have given all his dialogue to Asmodeus who not only already interacted with Stolas but also understands his struggles ?
why does Stolas have to be a good person?? ummmm, because they changed his character from the pilot to the first episode.??? originally he was supposed to be a VILLAIN
Even then, Stolas in the first episode is indistinguishable from his pilot self.
This show is so frustrating. On the one hand, as a fellow 2000s edgy deviantart baby, the show's art style lights up the lizard part of my brain in a way that I can't fully explain. Also, I do really like the original cast when they interact with each other, I think the first season and the recent shorts were really good and a fun watch overall. On the other hand, I am so tired of Stolas being constantly pushed to the front of the story and the original cast being ignored and set to the side so Vivzie can constantly introduce MORE and MORE characters at random while also turning Bird Boy into a pwecious baby that can do no wrong. We didn't even get a Millie focused episode until the end of season 2 and it felt like too little too late. I literally remember her telling Blitzo that he was her best friend and yelling "BITCH, WHEN!!???" at the screen. Like you guys have never acted in any other way then coworkers on decent terms with each other and you expect me to believe that? I'm also terrified that she's gonna force in some weird abortion subplot with Millie, something that literally nobody wants to see. Like it's giving me nightmare flashbacks to that infamous Zootopia comic. Regardless of what she does with it, I don't think she has the writing chops to handle it in an interesting or respectful way. It really feels like this show has been turned into a daytime tv drama.
I think liking Hazbin over Helluva is also related to tone. I have lots of critiques of hazbin hotel too. But the cartoon started on a more serious note that's about saving and redeeming people seen as nonredeemable. While that ends up being a comedy point you want to believe in Charile and her goals because she's actually a nice person. With Blitz, Stolas and Imp everyone is a murderer whose usually down to kill random families. Which WORKS fine with the premise of wacky and evil imps doing silly jobs but ends up feelings wild when the focus becomes one of family ties, abuse, relationships and the like. Stolas was supposed to be the thirsty bird man. Blitz was supposed to be an asshole. Tonally it feels weird when we're supposed to suddenly sympathize for them.
i’ve disliked characters in many different pieces of media, but i don’t think ANY of them have ever gotten under my skin the way Stolas does. it sucks because he was so interesting and morally questionable in season one, and i was excited to see where the show would take his and Blitz’s toxic relationship. unfortunately season 2 bends over backwards to retcon or justify every hurtful thing he’s ever done, and even when he’s being called out, like by Blitz at the end of Full Moon, the show chooses to focus instead on how being yelled at makes Stolas very sad, and wants us to think Blitz is being too harsh (even though he’s 100% RIGHT). the denial of the reality of Stolas’ actions in season one makes me feel crazy, like Blitz is being gaslit by Stolas and i’m being gaslit by the writers. i stuck around to see if maybe things could be salvaged by the end of season 2, but it’s safe to say i’m letting Helluva Boss go now. the show had so much potential, and now i’m embarrassed to admit i was ever invested.
Season 2’s dedication to Uwu-fiction of Stolas and retconning many aspects to put him in the write because they want him to be held accountable for his actions
He cheated on his wife?
“Oh well actually his wife was born evil and she’s a evil woman who likes to torment this poor gay owl”
Stolas is a bad dad who repeatedly prioritizes his bootycall over his daughter?
“Oh well he’s trying and dad’s try”
@@xmaswolf8733 that why I hate the show
"He's trying!" says the lower class hellhound who spent almost 18 years in the foster-care system, where she certainly would've had her fair share of bad dads. Loona is like, the one character who would NOT be this eager to defend a royal dad she barely knows outside of when he creeps on Blitz.
Exactly
Like Loona and Stolas have never interacted
She should not be this ready to stand up for that dude since all she knows about him is being her dad’s bootycall
Plus she was a victim of how royals don’t care about lower class since reminder, Bee runs the Hellhound Pounds so she was suffering in a shitty living space because of royals
@teabur4043 Ngl, Seeing Stars gets worse when you consider the thumbnail makes it look like a Loona and Octavia episode, but they only interact for one scene and most of the rest of the episode still focuses on Stolitz.
"Professional fan fiction" is the literal best way to put it.
Its accurate and borderline insulting to actual fanfic writers. Like ANYONE could write this show better then Viv
This is one of those series where I am more interested in the world building dynamic then the actual story and characters. I rather know more on how hell actually works in this world then anything else.
It's honestly hard to get into the worldbuilding aspect when we'll then see blatant violations of it.
glad I abandoned this show after the western episode destroyed striker's character, I was already noticing cracks, I've seen shows I've loved crumble before.. The Walking Dead, Rick & Morty, Good Times, Dallas, I'm too tired to watch another beloved show turn to dust.
I hate it when shows introduce a character as “someone who has done something TERRIBLE in the past”, and then reveal that it was actually a misunderstanding, an accident, or someone else’s fault (and that person is the “irredeemable baddie of the show, who ironically never gets any depth or character growth).
Here from the tweet by Uninformed Artist! And glad I saw this recommended too, you do a great job providing constructive criticism. You give HB a fair shake throughout!
Fellow Stolas hater 💖 (sad, because I loved him as a horrid little sleazeball in S1)
0:44 METAL FAMILY MENTIONED!!
YOOOOOOOO🎉🎉 SMALL WIN ID SAY
Little bit off topic but I don't like when shows or franchies just hit a 180 on their premise
For example
Helluva: 3 demons decide to prove their worth by running an assasination company to get revenge on peope who caused or played a role in the death of sinners. Then became about an owl having an annoying ass ex wife and being sad
Hazbin: Princess of hell runs a hotel to save damned souls became Heaven vs Hell
MCU: A squad of superheroes defend the multiverse became lol Gen Z humor(seriously Iorn Man to Endgame along with Far From Home and No Way Home and then She Hulk and Thor Love and Thunder fell like TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT series)
DCEU: Again a squad of superheroes defending the world became The Harley Quinn Show with some random side characters here and there with bearly any Justice League
4:02 that's literally what happens with Hazbin Hotel.
My brother in Christ you can't be this hypocrite. Hazbin started as "I want to redeem sinners" and became "holy war between hell and heaven."
To watch that I'd prefer Supernatural.
It went from being Invader Zim meets Smiling Friends, Villainous and even Dan vs to a shameless Bojack Horseman rip off meets season 3&4 of Star vs the Forces of Evil.
Since Vivzie is sticking to her guns with season 2 of Helluva Boss and now says that the pilot is not cannon, I think it may have been better if she gave Helluva Boss a soft reboot and start again because the majority of season 1 contradicts season 2. I guess the later half if season 1 fits better with season 2 more or less, like from ep. 5,6,7, and 8 if you tweek them a bit, especially with Stolas' character.
Infact on Stolas' character, he is a big reason why the show needs a soft reboot because since Ozzie's especially, he's such a different character - it's like Vivzie started to do actual research on him by that point and wanted to do damage control on her verson of Stolas to make him more wholesome and a victim of sercumstance instead of a sex crazed maniac who looks down on Blitzø.
Who knows if giving this show a restart would've been a good thing to do at the time because back then it seemed like she still had to prove herself and restarting her show midway would've been a bad look and waste everyone's time and money but its clear she and Brandon wanted to create a love story with Stolas and Blitzø and have Stolas be more innocent and simply playing onto Blitzø's dirty sex talk while not understanding the issues around that,(and have social issues in general while still being well meaning) while the original Stolas was very aware of the issues but did it anyway and Blitzø was more of the victim rather than someone who fights back, even towards Satin himself and Hell's society.
As a Stolas fan I understand the contemption that haters have towards him, it took me a long time to warm up to him and that wasn't until he showed depth as a character but he is a huge reason why the show is a mess because hos character is a mess and contradicts himself. In order to have the show to haveva chance of working moving forward now, it needs to restsrt from scratch with the character's motives and personalities fully understood by the writers and have them developed naturally.
Stolas and Blitzø clearly are the stars of the show and we're meant to sympathise with them and see them as flawed but well meaning and we're now meant to be engrossed in their love story and support it but the writing has messed that up so badly that the show needs to start again.
Also make the other characters matter! Especially Octavia and Millie!
"the pilot is not cannon"
than what the point of 1,2,3,4 and other episodes then? do they just appear out of thin air?
basically this is when you literally do everything you can to shit all over you show.
I didn't like helluva boss solely became about stolitz and how they must to be together, when they're very toxic couple, litterally stolas was in the hospital and blitz did not visit him. And the whole fantom said..aww he just hates himself so it okay blitz leaves him unread . Bruh this will not float in real life. I hate that blitz like stolas from act of guilt , cuz he never once showed any genuine feelings to stolas...it feels forced
If u wanna make it about a ship atleast make it more sense, it felt wrong for me to ship these two, cuz blitz had no interest and stolas was obsessed, I wish the show focused on IMP business wasted potential
wouldent float IRL? whats a SIMP then? stolitz is a SIMP for blitz.
Finally, someone who criticizes the show for valid reasons and not just blind hate
Don't get me wrong, I will always love Helluva Boss, but I agree that some decisions are questionable
Nice vid
One main thing that bothered me is that people in hell can do whatever they want, but for some reason, they try to paint what stolas did as one of the worst things because it's blitz.
It's like they tried to rehash the angel/valentino plot, but it just didn't make sense to me😅
I'm just wondering how much longer this show can go on with this poor writing. I mean the music, animation and voice acting can't carry this show forever.
May I just say that I 100% agree with the thumbnail? The last episodes of season 2 felt like PURE fanfiction (minus Ghostf**kers). I loved Helluva Boss before season 2 because its writing was more cohesive and fun. But now we have Blitz and Stolas swooning for each other because they suddenly love each other when that wasn’t really established before? The way I was CRINGING during Mastermind when Blitz and Stolas were singing to each other because it felt EXTREMELY forced… ugh.
I could rant about the pure fanfiction that was the Helluva Boss finale. It disappointed and frustrated me because this show has SO much potential and the creator decided to throw it away in favor of toxic doomed yaoi. 😔
Also: Vivziepop kept insisting that Stolas would be called out for his toxic behavior towards Blitz. Were Mastermind and Sinsmas *supposed* to be that? Because all I saw was Stolas taking the fall for Blitz and then Blitz doing the same against the fight with Andrealphus…but they *never* talk about what happened and we never got a proper apology from Stolas. I’m just so confused because it shows that Stolas hasn’t changed. He’s still entitled and blind to his wrongdoings, so what has changed exactly?? I hope I’m making sense here.
This might sound harsh, but...I think all the success Vivziepop has is wasted on her.
This is someone who has levels of success most indie creators can only DREAM of. Yet she refuses to improve her craft. In fact, her writing gets WORSE over time. Unlike Vivziepop, there are other indie creators who would actually take the time to listen to criticism and refine their work. THEY would make good use of the resources available to them.
But not Vivziepop. And it's beyond frustrating.
It sounds mean to say it out loud, but its the unfortunate truth. Viv got to high up too quickly and seems to have gotten a big ego about it. Then refuses to listen to criticism and improve her work since her fans will eat anything she feeds them anyway.
@yourlocalmoron4832 100% true. Glad to see I'm not alone in my thinking.
I truly do believe that Viv is quite talented and has worked hard to get to where she is, and I'm happy that she's successful. And I genuinely like her shows.
But at the same time, I'm frustrated with her, like a lot of other people. She could do SOOOO much better, but instead of listening to people's concerns, especially the concerns of the people that are funding one of her two biggest projects, she's just doing whatever she wants without a care in the world as to how anyone else is going to feel about it.
This attitude of hers is only going to bite her in the end. I think it already has, actually, as more and more people are dropping her content...and rightfully so.
@@chimanruler15Her attitude would be justified if she was, like, self funded and 100% self indulgent (like fanfiction authors who commission art for their stories) or something because then she would only be wasting her own money and the money of fans or investors (deserved, because investors suck and they can go suck a lemon) who trusted her in being capable of writing something competent and enthralling instead of edgy teen drama filled to the brim with inconsistencies and flimsy logic/justifications for her characters action, the less said about the lack of consequences the better.
@@refinant6298 Lol, agreed!
I’ll just say it, as much as I hated them, I could forgive Exes And Oohs and Western Energy, they had potential, but unhappy campers…. By the name of all that is evil, that episode was so bad it should have been straight up shelved entirely, even if it was complete. That episode was unreleasable in its current state. I felt like I was going to go insane and murder someone, that’s how awful it was.
To be honest, Mammons Magnificent Musical and Ghostfuckers were the only episodes here I truly enjoyed, and even the latter has quite a few issues. (I loved Rolando though.)
"the show was always about blitz and stolas" in the pilot stolas had 2 lines.
stolas ruins most of the show for me. his character is all over the place and frustrating, and he directly also affects blitz's character and sends his writing all over the place as well
when they're the main focus, I just can't pay attention. they bore me
I understand exactly why this comparison happens, but I really wish people would find a better expression for it than "it's like fanfiction".
The thing that feels "like fanfiction" about these Helluva Boss episodes is that they're all payoff and either too little setup or the wrong setup. And yes, a lot of fanfiction is deliberately, purposefully like that, because the setup is either in the canon (but with a payoff people find unsatisfying and want a different version of) or in ascended fanon (such as a popular fan theory that the fic itself does not need to go out of its way to establish). It's a rewriting of a payoff in order to scratch an itch where the setup *exists*, it's just not part of that particular bundle of words on the screen. And of course, there are plenty of fanfics that do both setup and payoff for elaborate plots less closely based on canon.
Writing a story with all payoff and bad setup isn't "like fanfiction". It's just bad writing.
I think the biggest failure of this show is the storyline of Blitz. I like those kinds of characters that did bad things, but it's still fun to follow them around. Whether it's comedic takes with shows like It's Always Sunny and South Park, or more serious shows like Dexter and BoJack Horseman. It's clear that Blitz was meant to be a BoJack type character, but they really don't go far enough to sell this idea of him being a shitty person who deserves to suffer these consequences. The whole conflict between him and Stolas doesn't work because they wanted to make it look like Blitz was a bad partner to Stolas when the relationship's flaws aren't presented well through the narrative they showed the audience. The show makes the mistake of contradicting their dynamic in order to make the drama "work" in the story.
It's stupid because they had a way better thing to hold Blitz accountable for...
His treatment of Moxxie and blowing off imps money.
But I garuntee you Moxxie will not comfront him and Stolas will probably comfront him on his money because it could only be him, to paint him in an even more positive light.
I'm calling it now
@@guineapig5858 Moxxie already has confronted him though like multiple times by now.
@@Jdudec367 but he's still tolerated it every time
Blitz says he will do better, then does it again and Moxxie is like
Meh
@@Jdudec367 it's treated like what he did wasn't that bad as Moxxie just forgives him although Blitz then re offends later
@@guineapig5858 No he calls him out on it and now Blitz has gotten better.
Season 1: Fun, lovely, enjoyable, chef’s kiss
Season 2: WTF happened?
Funny how everyone thought Stella would be a big antagonist and manipulate/poison Octavia's mind to ruin her relationship with her dad
BUT STOLAS DOES IT HIMSELF SO STELLA JUST TURNS OUT TO BE A PETTY KAREN INSTEAD 😂
When you able to afford to produce a beautiful animation I don’t think writing would be worse than the animation but here we are with many shows having writing issues
The thing I really hate is that Loona suddenly has friends.
For someone like me who tends to be a lot more casual, I still like the show. The show has flaws, HEAVY HEAVY flaws but it's not my job to be critical.
I honestly feel like a main problem I notice is that vivzie adds SO MANY antagonists without actually giving them a big role or fleshing them out, like striker for example, his character and story is really interesting but then he just gets thrown to the side and ends up literally working for royals when his character was all about taking down demon royalty, and then we got the dhorks (human agents) that havent shown up at all after the full moon episode, if the show focused more on the imp assassin premise then I feel like it wouldve been more focused on the dhorks and wouldve introduced more villians later on. I also think that the goetia characters SUCK, like stella was interesting until she just became annoying and stupid instead of manipulative, and andrealphus is just annoying as well and got so easily beat, vasago is legit just there, and stolas' dad literally NEVER even plays a role at all, if anything I feel like stolas shouldnt have even been a major character until the second or third season, he shouldve been like he was in the pilot, he was way more interesting and it wouldve been cool to see his character ACTUALLY develop instead of just being this "victim" that never takes accountability. And a side note about this show is that literally the only way vivzie adds angst is through daddy issues, blitz is probably the only interesting character to me at this point because his low self esteem and self sabotaging actually gets addressed and somewhat resolved and he realizes that hes done bad things, unlike other characters that barely get ANY depth or growth.
Back in the day I wanted to make a series but was afraid the plot was too similar to helluva and would get hate and accused of being a knockoff. I wish I have a Time Machine to tell my past self to make that series and not to worry, as the one thing slightly similar would become an afterthought of the show
Probably not too late for that. Besides, plenty of people are becoming very disappointed with Vivziepop for a variety of reasons, not just Helluva Boss, so I could say it is a potential audience awaiting to be tapped.
Honestly, nothing wrong with wanting to switch from Episodic to something more serialized. In fact, the romantic drama stuff can work. The problem is the fact the show time and time again makes baffling writing decisions, underuse characters to focus on the Romanic subplot, or just waste some time.
Hazbin Hotel, while I still wished it focused more on the characters within the hotel and the hotel itself instead of suddenly entering a war between heaven and hell, indeed had more materials based on the hotel. Truth is, Im mixed on both these shows with how much they frustrate me so i cant really say Im in love with both these shows, but I wish Vivzie just take the time to rewatch her stuff and properly figure out what needs to be addressed. Because the pacing for both these shows sucks hard.
I've read a lot of fanfic and there is no better truth than "this is written like fanfic." I can see the tells, Viv lost the plot in her pursuit of making Blitz and Stolas a couple. Both of their characters begin to mainly revolve around each other and it hurts them. When they got together I got nervous because this is where most writers tend to go off the rails and accidentally screw up all their characters. I am confident Viv will go down this path too, if Millie's pregnancy reveal is anything to go by
Though I can give her credit for how Octavia reacts to Stolas. It was surprisingly realistic, save for randomly bursting into song, but it's practically a musical now so I don't care
The only thing keeping me watching this show is that my sister loves it
Literally,the fans of this show refuse to want to explore the problems of the show(like the creator herself),only wanting to care about Shipping,"cool looking"merch and probably...Rule 34,Yuck !
id rather carmella carmine and loona and beelzubub rule 34.
@@NightmareRex6 Ok...? No one wants to know what you're into, dude.
Especially the rule 34. Look, it happens in every fandom, but a lot of these fans can't open their mouth without writing down the most séxual7y charged, eye rolling shit with their saliva. It's no surprise though, the show uses that topic ( I have to censor it ) all the time for shock value. It's immature.
plenty of fans have spoken out about vivzies whole thing with rafael(i think thats his name?)
apart from that, whats the problem with fans enjoying fandom things like every other fandom on the internet
@@narwhalocean791If that were all, it would be fine, but they annoy anyone who gives the slightest criticism to the series.
Im working on my own helluva boss rewrite, it will have stolas be a villain,
Blitzo and verosika get back together.
Unhappy campers happens before harvest moon festival.
Loona and her friends get screen time. Also loona and octavia friendship get developed.
Sallie may join IMP (who appear much more before hand)
The goat is adopted by blitz and join IMP.
Cherubs and dhorks have more episodes setting up by themselves and together
before a final battle with IMP. (2 eps for separate intro, 2 eps for developing each other and 2 for teaming up)
Stella backstory is that is the past, she was unknowingly an affair partner of another couple. She now believes she must save blitz from stolas.
Striker get killed off by a new villain (my oc, i dont like striker, he worked better a minor villain)
Belphegor and Leviathan have episodes before mastermind.
Leviathan ep have stolas get called by verosika and stella for his actions and Leviathan comments on stolas envy for happy couple.
Belphegor ep is where the goat returns and accidentally summons her when trying to find blitz for help to fight the penguin.
Mastermind is a two/three parter. (A full proper trial and parts of sinsmas, stolas powerless and homeless)
Stolas and octavia do get to properly talk, but a spell is put on via to hate stolas.
Sinsmas end with stolas hired by blitz and friendzone by him, but Blitz atleast promise to help save octavia. Stolas get redemption in the next season.
>Blitzo and verosika get back together.
That unironically makes it worse.
Not to be a party pooper, but can you write all of this in 20 episodes? It sounds you are adding more episodes, which sure, indie schedule would allow. But as an additional challenge, I would try to limit it to 20 episodes, just to show it is possible
I like some of those ideas (Stella being an ex-affair partner is an interesting concept) but others are defenitely there just to make things different. I don't see a reason to add the goat to IMP
@@billcipher8645 the goat really just a idea to throw out there. I seen other people have the goat be Blitz's emotional support animal
@@icarue993 my rewrite is structured into 3 season of 10 episodes
8:23 also, nobody addresses what blitz said about octavia?? perfectly fine with screwing around as long as she's clean??? uhh... WEIRDO ALERT??? i dont care if "that was a joke", he said that IN CHARACTER, NOT SARACSTICALLY..??
Also Brandon Rogers called octivia a slut and cockblock once let that sink in
tried to defend/excuse it in my mind as if blitz didn't know octavia, or stolas' age (prolly assuming he's in 40s or smth and octavia was an adult) but just... naaah
@YoungStarship He would know her age because he saw Stolas when he was a kid!! He'd know she was a kid, or at the very least out of his age range!
So weird and gross 🤢
@@Irish_Does_Doodles but s1e2 is before s2e1 so i thought of that perspective. anyways, trying to get it on with the daughter/any relative of the person you're getting on with? nah champ
Another reason for why "The Circus" sucks so much. This wouldn't matter if Stolas was... Y'know... MORE THAN 35????
Doesn't seem they like taking risks in their story and take the more easier routes and try to solve every conflict within an episode, as what I've heard. I wish they would write the ships more seriously if that's supposed to stay a main focus, it feels way too sped up and failing to acknowledge faults within their characters. (Stolas.) By this, they neglect characters like Octavia and even Stella. These characters could have more attention onto them in order to make us care even more and give us more depth. Even with Millie, instead of just having her there to help Bliz and Moxxie, have her have her episode, give her character more dimension. Even when Loona's backstory was mentioned, it was focused on Blitz. It became *his* trauma instead of an episode focusing on her. And take risks with the writing, it isn't a small story, this has been promoted as a whole show (look at Hazbin.) If you're trying to live up to these standards you have to actually meet the minimum of your demand, but they refuse to listen to criticism and just get mad about it in a comment section or on Twitter. To be a good artist, you need to expand your own skills, especially if you claim to love something so much. If you want people to remain interested, you have to grow as an artist. It's as if they're afraid to acknowledge any of their plot, and honestly, don't plan a thing out.
Both Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel are shows that I really like but don’t love. They’ve got the pieces there to create two amazing shows, but just can’t quite fit them all together. And it’s the pieces that do fit that make me stick around and keep watching.
Also Mammons is a 10/10 episode, best in the show by a fair bit.
I’ve never seen HB myself, but I’ve found that nothing can bring down an otherwise good piece of fiction faster than dissonance between what a show wants you to believe, and what it actually makes you believe.
Helluva boss and Hazbin Hotel both abandon their premise but I don't care much for them
I actually only liked them because I was a massive fan of don't starve I hope one day that game gets an adapted animated show or something because it's rich with amazing lore and stories
i have a crazy theory
the reason why HH is better then HB is cuz in HB Viv has full control ever the show
if you see some people made a show and needed a big corporation to make it, they sometime dont have full control over it, for example Alpha Betas, 4 youtubers wanted to make a show so they gained like 1 mil from Kickstarter, then they asked adult film to make their show, but while making it, those 4 youtubers doesnt feel like they have control over the script, story, visuals, etc. theyere asked "would you rather this or that?" everytime, overall sometime big corporation dont allow you to add something to your show.
so with that logic, maybe Amazon hired some writers that help Viv on making it, and with those writers they change/deny some of Viv's writings (for obvious reasons) cuz HH is technically own by amazon she cant do shit about it, and thats why HH is somewhat good
but in HB Viv has full control, if a writer deny her writings, she can just say "Fuck your opinion! this is my work"
im sorry to say this, but Vivzie isnt a good writer
Trust me, everyone's tried SOOOO hard to like this show LMAO. I just can't with the direction they're going and the huge blind spots they apparently refuse to address or attempt to fix. The season 1 and season 2 difference is night and day, and the first season imo was the biggest high.
4:01 when was Hazbin ever about redeeming souls? Lol boy do I have some bad news for you about where the next season will probably go (it won't be Vaggie and Charlie don't you worry about that)
Yeah I was very confused at the whole “Hazbin didn’t forget about the premiss” stuff. It does the exact same thing that HB does.
No villain in her shows can compare to XANA from Code Lyoko, XANA says this in Ghost Channel of Season 1 that shows it/his flaw in regards to not understanding why Jeremie would go into the Scanner in real world to enter the Simulation Bubble in virtual world Lyoko and face his fear to rescue his friends "But it's not logical don't you see? He's much too scared to even try, I-I'm much too scared! If not then why havent I already done it?" and this is what Jeremie says in front of XANA and his friends who understand very well why Jeremie would face his fear and do it which the show also reveals how XANA isnt a godly being or perfect "Because I told you why, he's not infallible; XANAs knowledge of people is only approximative!" which again the episode is in the first Season and there's 4, the creators especially Sophie Decroisette who is the legit creator of the villain XANA explored this side of him early and she is faaaar better, she doesnt even have Social Media so you know how professional that woman is.
Code Lyoko…… hmmm that’s a name I haven heard in a while
Code Lyoko mentioned!!
@@CorinXV Just to let you know, my introduction was 3 DVDs I got from Hollywood Video and I was interested because the cover art on a case for one of them stood out to me when I was a little kid, that's also how old I am.
@leomartz33 Yep, really impossible for me not to and my pfp is a true form made by VioletMadness, you cant see but it's a form with Gray skinned male Elf look, the Red glowing Eyes based on Possessed living creature's' eyes, razor teeth ofc, Silvery Hair that's feminine, feminine attire and yes XANA has stubble on chin which obviously XANA is genderless but prefers male with a voice that very deep, demonic & bit filtered and doesnt care for who or what he possesses which includes clothes as he's fine with females too including Sissi, that and I really love the form to point of roleplaying as XANA using a form integrating what VioletMadness had and that I did with Hazbin Hotel was when all we knew those like Velvette had the design with Lolita Dress and had my own hopes & dreams with the universe even believing the 3 V's had a mansion in Lust and how think their popularity in Pentagram City including Angel gives them special access as Angel is very popular, too bad it's more disappointing and the official shows have Sinners kept under any circumstance in that ridiculously small City & no work arounds for Sinners to be allowed to travel to lower Rings because it gets boring with characters kept in that 1 Ring and repetitive storytelling.
i really enjoy helluva boss, but being completely honest i ignore so much of the canon and just stick up with the theories so i wont get pissed at the writing. If anyone have a nice fanfic recommendation i accept btw
I heard it stated that Vivzie doesn’t know how to “kill her darlings” and I couldn’t agree more. Sometimes you can’t include every single character or interaction you want to see in your final project. Sometimes things need to be changed or wholly removed for the sake of the overall story. In both of her animated series, Vivzie has been derailed from the original plot to focus on the fan-favorite characters and concepts. She’s riding the high of having a huge fan base, giving Angeldust his own music video instead of Charlie and changing the entire plot of Helluva Boss to focus on the most popular ship. The pilots for these series were great, but the progression has been disappointing imo.
I like the characters better in helluva and the music too. But its way too fanfic and i hate they keep trying to make us like Stolas i dont like him and i dont like stolitz. I really didnt like hazbin bc all the characters were very one note and i was just really annoyed with the poor writing esp how we dont see charlie redeeming any sinners theres one ep about sir pentious and then a few episodes later charlie uses angel dust as an example and hes all of a sudden been changed off screen. I think the first season of helluva was better than the season of hazbin. But then in the second helluva season totally ditched the premise and made it a romance and godddd i dont like Stolitz!! Really annoying and disappointing
8:16 YESS!! SOMEONE FINALLY CALLED IT OUT!! I AM A MOM AND THIS HAS BEEN BOTHERING ME!!
Guys, I have an idea. How about instead of rotting and hating on this show, let's just leave it in the dust. Instead, I'd like to suggest a show that I at least think is highly underrated and deserving of more attention.
Hunter: The Parenting
I think that this is a genuinely good show, in spite of the limited animation and more rigid artstyle. The reverse of Helluva Boss. May not look very pretty, but beneath it all, I think that there is a genuinely intriguing story, and a bunch of characters who are very likable, especially THE GREAT AND MIGHTY KEVIN
Successful =/= good.
2:58 going for Danny is crazy work😭😭
I feel like Stolas is going to accidentally break one of his bones when he moves.
Agreed with your points.
8:40 my only issue with this point is that unlike Stolas, Princess bubblegum is a much better executed character when it comes to acknowledging her flaws. Adventure time fully expects you to take away that she’s supposed to be a bad person and that she’s done many bad things; as the main characters mature and their perspective expands, so does the audiences. Do the writers do it perfectly? Not every time; but given her upbringing as a child that emerged from a post-post apocalypse, and she lived isolated in her own echo chamber for most of her 1000+ year life , and the few times she decided to trust people they either tried to betray her or had a falling out with her, which likely instilled that manipulative behavior, I find it unsurprising that she is the way she is. It doesn’t excuse her actions, but I find it way more empathetic that she is the way she is because she knows nothing else and when the consequences of her actions are finally shown to her face, she decides that she can no longer attempt to control every aspect of her life, and that she needs to let it happen on its own without her constant approval. She doesn’t just flip a switch and become good overnight. It takes a lot of practice and reflection to even make a little progress but it gives hope that she will continue to practice it. Is she a bad person? Most definitely. But is she a bad character? No, she’s one of my favorite characters in adventure time because of how flawed and messed up she is.
You can like Hazbin and hate Hellvua, it is your option, the fandom is far worse than any to date. Worse than MLP's, Steven Universe, fucking SONIC, like how can these fandom that have done so much but HH/HB done worse with half if not a quarter of the time. Also, Oct's has every right to be mad at her father as any living person, this fandom just wants anything to go in favor to their little ship. (Also, I've heard that Viv doesn't like Octavia and just making her bad on purpose, not taking that as fact but if it is true than why even make a daughter character in the first place?)
Cus she needed a Plot Device I guess? Thats all Octavia really is as it stands. Everytime she has shown up its always been alongside Stolas and Blitz. LIKE WTF DOES SHE DO ALL DAY?! Sit around the house and be sad?
How has the HH/HB fandom been the worst out of all those?
@@Jdudec367 I dont think anyone should respond to you because you're gonna ignore and not care what they feel and be open-minded about their issues they have same as you would to me, I'm not coming back to respond because you're not worth it and having a discussion.
Unnecessary to bring up those fandoms and not really like i can't take it seriously imo
Honestly the worst part of the mlp fandom are worse than the worst part of the helluva boss fandom but yeah they’re both horrible