Audiophiles! Are you ready to consider a subwoofer?
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- Опубликовано: 25 окт 2020
- Are you ready to rumble? If you're holding out, and never were tempted to add a subwoofer Steve might turn you around.
While most subs will do just fine with home theater bombast, not all are well suited to music systems.
These three brands make "musical" subs.
REL Acoustics rel.net
SVS www.svsound.com/collections/s...
Hsu Research www.hsuresearch.com
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Развлечения
I recall, about 40 years ago, listening in a hifi store (remember those?) to a recording the owner had made of the interior of Exeter Cathedral in Devon with nothing going on - quiet murmuring, soft footfalls, the occasional cough, etc. etc. The sound was being played through a couple of LS3/5As. After a while he suggested I close my eyes (I did). He then switched in the subwoofer. The walls of the demo room seemed to disappear and the experience changed from listening to the sounds of the cathedral to being IN the cathedral. Quite magical. There's a lot more to it than just adding musical bass notes.
I remember listening to an EMC recording of an Arvo Pärt piece; same thing.
well said sir! Its another Dimension to sound, it makes it more dynamic when lows emanate from everywhere and stereo speakers throwing sound left to right at the same time , whether you can hear the sub or not it adds more feel/substance, a sub might only play 30-150hz or something but seems to add depth everywhere in my experience. I cant live without one now.
Ain't that the truth !!!
That's why my subs were fine-tuned while listening to violin Bach partitures.
Subwoofers and supertweeters have a lot in common in the sense you describe, in that they both add realism to the ambience heard in the recording.
Because you can hear between 20hz and 20khz. Your speakers must produce all the sounds that you can hear.
Good description. Still using a REL Q150 from 20 years ago. Best description is that a sub should extend the bass of your existing speakers and shouldn't draw attention to itself. Many visitors ask why I dont use it when they listen to my system. So I have to then put something on with lots of sub bass then turn it off. Everyone is shocked. Setup right a sub has a place in a good hifi setup.
I use a REL Q150 as well. Excellent musical sub for 2 channel stereo.
Got an 8 inch Cerwyn Vega under the couch with my Q3020s.
Great sub ... I use one myself .... Amazing for its size
Got Rel Stentor III goes low 11 HZ.
its great subwoofer
Good show today. I ran a pair of SVS SB 1000's behind my Magnepan 1.7's for about 4 years. Totally seamless integration and they really rounded out the low bass that the Maggies couldn't reproduce. Sold the whole kit when I got my current setup, but I remember those subs very fondly.
I just got my first sub two days ago, an SVS SB 1000 Pro paired with Revel Performance M106 speakers, and I couldn’t be happier. The set up was super easy, and I can’t believe how much better everything sounds.
A subwoofer is like air conditioning. You can live your whole life without it and be fine but once you have it you can never go back. Yes, get two.
Exactly!! Changed my musical world forever, and two is better than one.
Got two too! A left and a right channel. NAD 316BEE goes to--->2 Gallo TR-3Ds which go to 2 -->JBL Century 100. I'm satisfied.
@@boomerzoomer5191I've been thinking of a second velodyne I have a 10 I'm thinking a 12 or 15 crossed over real low to cover the very bottom something felt more than heard.
Earl Geddes and others have suggested that even more than two subs can go a long way to mitigate modal issues, which of course vary widely/wildly depending on the room. Of course, the complexity of properly setting them up increases exponentially, but thanks to widespread availability of relatively affordable DSP room measurement and correction software and class D amplification, this is far more accessible than “back in the day” when some of us greybeards were cutting our teeth in the Wild West days of our early audiophile careers - i.e. beginning in mid to late 70’s and forward.
For me it 's not. Fullrange is the only way for me without a sub
Added 2 rel 9ti subs to our system ... will never go back now ... set up right via the hi level inputs just filled out the whole sound stage ... Awesome
Great topic. I integrated a ported SVS SB3000 with BW803D3 in a big room. Fantastic upgrade in terms of depth and volume.
So glad to hear you discuss this Steve. I kept waiting for you to mention multi sub. Going to dual subs was a huge upgrade for me. Bass response was smoothed out over the whole room, integration was better and the subs were only having to work 1/2 as hard to achieve the same in room output. Please check out and encourage your audience to at least listen to a dual or multi sub system.
A couple years ago I decided that subwoofers(2) really needed to be a larger portion of my total system budget. I had an RSL Speedwoofer, which is sort of a darling to a lot of people for it's great performance at only $399. I replaced it with dual SVS SB3000's which is a huge step up in cost, but they've been the most significant upgrade I've ever made! I love bass heavy music so having capable subs is a must. They elevate the performance of any speaker when dialed in well, and they're probably the only gear I have that I absolutely will not let go of.
I agree with this video - especially if you have a big room. I had a sub for years and you cannot beat them for filling a big room with deep bass. I sold it because I thought I didn't need it but over a few months I have realised that even with big floor standing speakers with multiple bass drivers I miss the hit of the really low end.
Thanks for the tip about putting the sub near you as well.
I’ve been using a pair of JL Audio Fathom F112’s with a pair of active ATC’s for about 2 years now.Love the setup even though it took me a while to get them dialled in.
Love you show Steve.
I recently got a Martin Logan Dynamo 1100x to compliment my Martin Logan Ethos. I can’t believe the difference. The sub truly rounds out the entire bandwidth of the song you are playing and makes for a better listening experience. I never thought I would be a fan of a sub for a 2 channel stereo. But I’m now convinced. Cheers.
John
Your description is so accurate. I added a pair of the (relatively) cheap SVS PB12NSD's to my Polk RTiA9 towers on a Denon AVRX3500H. (adding an external amp later) Once I ran the room correction software and measurements, they integrated seamlessly...you hear lower frequencies, but don't really realize there are subs there, until some really low or really hard bass notes come in. Even then, the sound just more fully fills the room, you still don't necessarily "hear the subs" themselves as you say. It's really great. No going back. :)
I just got a dual Rel T9i for my Dynaudio Evoke 50. And it really opens up the space in the sound image. And the whole room shakes if the music asks for it.
All I can say is this... after owning so many brands and types of subs including building three subs and running dual subs. I should have settled on a 15” sub. Not because of more “bass” but for quiet listening. At lower volumes most subs sound dead - even the “musical” ones. With a 15” sub it sounds amazing at low to moderate volumes. It truly is a beautiful thing.
What brand 15" sub do you have?
@@wynnsimpson 2nd hand Velodyne off of Craig’s list. They have an 18” within the series that goes down to 14HZ. The 15” I use goes down to 15HZ. I’m not a mega bass head but it is nice to have the bottom headroom. I find bass in the 30-70hz range to be very smooth with my sub.
@@epi2045 Thank you for your analysis. I am considering a SVS SB1000. I can't afford the 15". Do you have any experience with SVS?
@@wynnsimpson I don’t think you can go wrong with a SVS or HSU or Rythmic(sp?). They are the trio of companies making nice subs $400-700.
Elac 1010
Sub sizing.... never heard it put like that. Makes sense. Thank you.
Awesome direction! Great view and announcement! I run two sealed SVS subs that I run to my powered monitors; a 2.2 system. It’s fun to tinker with both subs, trying to find the optimal sound for Video/TV viewing, and stereo music.
i have always had a subwoofer and never regretted having it. then recently i have heard that 2 subs sound
even better, so ordered another one. best thing i ever did!!!! the second one filled in the gaps of no bass of
my room. try it you will love the difference that the 2nd one makes.
Paired my KEF LS50 Wireless with a KEF Kube8b subwoofer. Just a great combination and what a big difference in soundstage and sound breath. Good you brought up this topic, Steve.
Yes, the best reason for a sub is that the best location of bass reproduction is very rarely the same place as the main speakers for best imaging. As an analog two channel guy, the biggest issue is finding an analog sub amp. One of the most important features for integration is continuously variable phase adjustment. Being able to locate the sub in a good bass reinforcement location that also happens to be lined up with a reflection point of the main speakers works well for imaging.
Already have. I bought an Outlaw Audio M8 to supplement my bookshelf speakers. If your speakers don’t reach the lows you want it’s the best solution.
Thanks again Steve, I'm with ya everyday!!!
Yes 👍 I totally agree!
I'm a convert. I added a Cambridge Audio Minx x301 sub to my Wharfedale Denton 80th anniversary speakers and it definitely extended the sound, making it fuller. Don't know how it would work with heavy rock, but it improved my enjoyment when listening to 70's and 80's jazz and jazz fusion.
Thank you, Steve; a fun, valuable lecture on the subwoofer.
I’ve got two little REL T5s positioned adjacent to my stand mounts. They not only add the missing base but somehow improved the quality of the midrange. I turn them of sometimes just to remind me just how good they are.
I would recommend two subwoofers to anyone who’s thinking about adding subs
For years I used a y splitter off the preamp line outs to go to the subs. Worked well.
I picked up a Yamaha powered sub for 10 bucks at an estate sale and hooked it to the same tech and vintage Yamaha powered small speakers with the y connection off my Nak 550 sweet little system
I use the rel t5i with my kef r300 and can only advise everyone to test a sub in his system. I think there is no going back afterwards. When properly set, the music is enhanced with a lot more than just the deeper bass information.
Hello, I too had a REL T/5i added to my stereo system, but I returned it because it emitted an audible hum. Consultation with REL seemed to rule out a grounding issue as the source of the hum. My connection was high level directly to amplifier using the provided 30 foot cable, although the REL was about three feet from the amplifier and about seven feet from the listening position. I really liked the enhancement the REL provided, but could not tolerate the hum. Do you have any experience with a problem like mine or any suggestions? Thanks for your consideration of this comment.
Hello John , I can‘t detect a hum from my system, using the high level connection (cable shortened to 10 feet) in a bi-amping setup, sub connected to the related bass driver amp. Maybe there were interference in the cable, or it was a „Monday device“. Sorry, l‘m really glad with my setup.
@@johnsingley8183 do you use a class D amplifier?
I just added a T5X to my system (Rega/ProAc) and I’m amazed by how much better things sound.
And that's why I went with the Definitive Technology 9060 & matching center channel
Now to upgrade the Pioneer HT amp.
I tried the near-field positioning idea on a subwoofer I have been using since the 80s. Amazing difference. I thought I had good integration before, but everything improved with the subwoofer right next to me. Tight, punchy bass that I never had before with better apparent low-end extension. I thought the sound would be disjointed but this setup actually creates an illusion that all the bass is coming from the main speakers.
Do you point the subwoofer toward the speakers (assuming it's a front-firing driver)?
Right on Mr. Guttenburg! Please review Rel Subs, love how Rels support your main speakers with awesome Sub Bass and room corrections.
I have 2 Vandersteen 2wq subs with my Vandy Treo CT and I LOVE the sound!!! Steve is spot on about subs being seen but no heard. The irony is you can’t hear how much they contribute until you remove them. HOLY COW!
Just added an rsl speedwoofer 10” to my stereo speakers and man it completes the picture beautifully. Im thankful there’s now good self powered speakers and woofers. More parts and cables i do not want haha
I'd live to see a review on rythmik or SVS subs - thanks for the great work! Congrats on the 150k subs!!!
One of the reasons I purchased the Parasound P-5 pre amp is it has a bass management circuit that makes integrating a sub much much easier. My left/right speakers sound better because the bass below about 50Hz is filtered out, clearing up the midrange in the process.
Another very informative video! Haven't thought the size of the sub sould follow the speakers, thatnks for that advise and the placement advise. I hope this new thing you do work out and see more subs reviews.
I just added a REL T5X to my Rega/ProAc system... I can’t believe the difference. It’s so much more than lower notes. The energy in the music, the richness of the sound is dramatically better. The left hand on the piano or a stand up bass just come alive...
Trust you bro,the real vetaren in audio. No lfe line but go to speaker level, absolutely amazing
I run 2-T5i's RELs with my Maggie LRSs. I though one was fine but sooooo glad I got a second
Yes sir, I have one sub as a end table and the other one just behind me seat. Best placement Ive found for four 15” woofers.
I love my SVS SB-1000. It's compact enough to put in a variety of places and the power it has is very impressive. One of the best things I've bought for my system.
I have a well integrated subwoofer with my stereo bookshelf speakers. Bass always sounds like it's coming from the main monitors. Janis W1 sub and B&W CDM1 pair. Sounds accurate and very musical.
Big subject. Glad you have broached it. I am sure many of your viewers will have opinions on sub/no sub and the proper way to set them up. My small word of advice is don't underestimate the power of app-controlled electronic DSP. I have a couple of SVS SB-2000 Pros which have built-in DSP. Being able to integrate your sub(s) and mains from your listening position is very, very helpful. By using the built-in parametric equalizers and shooting the room with Room EQ Wizard, I found the integration far, far, less frustrating than when I was trying to do it with my old subs, the much more expensive JL Audio E110s. These are old school where one needs to get up, turn a knob and sit down again. NOT ideal for setting subs up. It is also easy to tone down or up the bass on any given recording using the phone app. From my personal experience I've concluded that app-controlled built-in DSP is a must-have feature in any modern subwoofer.
Give me the$$$$¢$
I use the speaker level in and out connections for my stereo systems and the RCA in for my home theater. I have never listened to music on my theater system since I initially set it up so sound wise it doesn't matter. I prefer the high level in/out for music.
He's right about the near field placement comment. I run two JL f110's right behind my listening chair and it sounds awesome and integrates perfectly with my L&R towers.
Great work man👍👍
my sub has speaker ins and outs, self powered sub so no worries! my older denon receiver worked just fine! a dedicated sub or better two can be set up to have one set as low as it goes and the other can handle the slightly higher lows and wen volume is matched right you get an amazing accurate full sound!
I have been convinced some time ago to try it out. Well set up subwoofer was my cure for "over bassed" Dynaudio Contour 30. Thanks to additional crossover i can enjoy the lower mids from Dynaudio and bass that is of better quality coming from sub.
So i recommend but not without microphone
Great video. I have a set of large speakers but I was not pleased with the overall sound in the low end, got a pair of REL 7i subs and it opened up the sound completely. I must have moved them around over 20 times and the final resting place was with one in the front and the other behind the sofa. Sounds great.
REL are great because they have barely any subbass output to excite room modes hence they sound great without any actual integration (EQ/DSP+crossover)
I'm a big sub fan steve, have a set to compliment my spatial audio OBs, connected to my prima luna via high level inputs. Once you get true full range sound it's imposable to go back!!
I had an set of Monitor Audio Bronze 2 on a Cambridge Audio One system and got to try a 12" subwoofer on it. It completely changed my view on what hifi can sound, even though I only had it for a short time and the sound wasnt perfect by any means, it just made the music BIG and exciting. I know it was extreme given what i had and I have upgraded my hifi since, however I still yearn for a sub at some point to that big exciting sound once again. One you get hooked on a sub there is no real going back to a normal setup.
What sub were you using? I have those speakers and was considering Monitor Audio's matching sub.
If I can have a seamless crossover - I'm all in! It's not just about more bass, it's about dimensionality - especially with piano. Love your show Steve! All the best - Luther 😎👍
I've been using Subwoofers in most my setups since the early eighties... I have done everything from dual 18" in one huge cabinet (that I built myself and have an active tuned filter before the Crown K1 amp), to 4 "small" (12") subwoofers evenly spaced in the room that is tuned with DSP. To be honest. I enjoy the dual 18" monster the most, but the most correct sound where the subs just disappeared into the sound, it is the quadruple small subwoofers. I do not use small speakers... :)
I love 2.1 sound. The stereo rides the waves of the woofer. I'm not talking deadmau5, I use it for classical music - symphonies.
Totally agreed, subwoofers are "audiophiles machines", you simply loose part of frequency response range without a sub. Waiting for lot of subs reviews and tips. Good job!
To Steve. Dude... Really? My two 12 inch SVS SUBS can't to 60hz? (the part you said get a Smaller 8 inch SUB if you have small speakers.. as they can't go high enough to meet the bottom end of the speakers) ...... 60hz? Come on..
2.2 and room correction combo makes music sound so sweet.
For well blended subs, the sub gain will take the longest to tune. Like when you first get the sub, you want to hear it. But then you realize that doesn’t sound the best. So you start to turn it down. Then you miss the slam. So you turn it back up. For me, it took months of this for me to be happy.
Dua Lipa’s Future Nostalgia helped so much. Album has awesome bass grooves and and of course female vocals. When you can feel the bass but it doesn’t muddy the delicate vocals you’ve nailed it.
I use a small 10" sub for music in my 2.1 setup. I don't have it cranked--it just gives a depth that I think makes music in my system sound much richer and textured. Steve is right about the soundstage as well. Now I don't have a big expensive system--we're talking Polk towers here (rti-a7) and a Sony a/v receiver (ES line). But for me, I think, this is a great budget system.
150K subscribers! Congrats!
I have two systems. One with Magnepan 1.7i panels and one with Magico A3 towers. Everything I thought was fine. Then I took the leap and got a pair of REL T/9i subs. Wow. It revolutionized the sound of my Magnepan system! It also was a positive addition to the Magicos. But not as much as to the Magnepans. Yes. Take the leap! You won’t go back!
Hi Steve, my living room system uses Dali Rubicon LCR on wall front speakers with 6½" drivers together with an SVS SB-4000 with a 13.5" woofer and the sub blends in perfectly (at -10 dB) using an NAD T 777v3 receiver and Dirac Live room correction. It is a very good 2.1 system for stereo music. I also have a Dali Fazon LCR center speaker and Dali Fazon SAT rear spekers to double as a 5.1 system for movies.
I have a total of 4 Subwoofers. 1x 18" on 1,800w dedicated power amp. 2x 15" connected to stereo amp (500w/PC), and a 10" Powered Dayton Audio Sub. All sound terrific in the rooms they are in. The 18" goes down from 10hz-120hz +/- 3db so it really shakes the house. The little Dayton 10 is amazing as well for its size. No system is complete without them I think.
I have a older velodyne sub it coupled with my old ar2ax speakers is a fantastic combo.
i just bought one. loving it.
i'm also loving your videos!
Since the main goal of audiophiles is realism or accurate sound reproduction, leaving out any part of the sound spectrum moves one further away from true fidelity. The reaction of the listener when certain passages of music or sound are played with the sub or (subs) switched off, and then repeated with them turned on is dramatic and exciting to watch. Especially when the uninitiated brings familiar music or even movie tracks into the mix.
Great opening! I’m not ready! I’ve had a sub and can’t say I want another one. I feel like all I want is stereo now.
Love what you do , its high quality infos and reviews, realy top, thanks a lot Steve
Great review...thanks to your previous sub. review ... I placed SVS1000SB behind me...and it sonds fantastic!
Bravo, Steve. You're the best!
Never been crazy about my Maggie 3.7's but they work great with my stereo REL S510 subs.
exaclty ! the brand who actually make this better(space) is REL to me the best on the business
Added a REL T7i to my Magapan LRSs. The improvement was significant. SD said, the key is integration. My sub picks up right where the Maggie's fall off, around 60 Hz and takes it down to 35 Hz or so.Most of the time you would know there was a sub in the system, on occasion you do really notice the base coming from the 35 Hz to 60 Hz region that was simply missing before. Overall, I couldn't imagine not having a subwoofer in the system.
The wharfedale diamond SW150 is a really fantastic budget option. I have one and it completely transforms speakers very musical and fast but weighty
I ordered a Klipsch sub over thanksgiving to help my LaScalas. They were half off for Black Friday. It’s supposed to arrive today. I’m looking forward to trying the placements you suggested.
Love the posts. One on sub placement in the room would great.
I got a great deal on a used pair of Audioengine A5's which I had seen countless great reviews for but the bass was lacking in spite of many reviewers saying how much bass they had, the problem was i'm a basshead with a whole bunch of subwoofers that all play deeper than Audioengine's 5" woofers (no surprise there) so I ordered the matching Audioengine S8 subwoofer and what a difference it made. It's a down firing 8" sub but I actually place it on it's side so I can see the driver do it's thing and since I live in a basement suite, my floor is concrete so I wouldn't feel it in the floor anyway but it really fills in the sonic picture with the bottom 23hz that the A5's are missing
Would love more sub reviews👍
For me, the sub definitely adds that low end that I feel really anchors a system so to speak BUT I also think it makes the upper lows mids and highs sound much more Alive. I don’t know if it has something to do with harmonics or just being able to hear the entire range of sound but for me a sub is a must even if it adds complexity.
When you spend the time getting bass properly set up the rest is easy IMO.
Imagine that bass is literally a base or pedestal for its mid and higher dimensional octaves.Now,if the base is missing,then the mids and highs sound incomplete.Like subtle breath sounds,that only real subs(-3db below 20hz) can reveal.Also,if the base octaves are not accurate,in time rhythm dynamics and harmonics,then the mids and highs go discordant,cacophonic and all is lost.So yes,a properly dialed in room sub is a must for full range,real reference listening.But,it all boils down to the size of room and acoustics,to what can be reproduced with a sub.For tiny rooms,avoid a sub!
I have a REL T9i coming this week and am excited to see if I can convincingly integrate it with my Quad 57s.
The REL subs with the Speakon connection is the best option to connect to a receiver etc. that doesn’t have a sub out. It’s is specifically made to send a proper amplified signal to the sub.
Hi Steve really enjoyed watching this about subs and definitely looking forward to future videos on this subject well done.
I ordered an Emotiva SE8 to complement a pair of B1+'s (pretty much music only). I bought it to get the extra octave that would be provided by a tower without using a tower. I love the B1+'s and I think I'll also love getting that extra octave (since I am a former double-bass player in symphony work...and the E string is about 30 Hz). Anyhow, that's my excuse...and I'm going to stick with it !!
Steve thanks this makes it clear
I haven’t had a “sub-woofer”, BUT I had a pair of AR-9’s, which handled bass well. I love organ music, and have a number of good organ recordings. Bass on them sounded heavenly.... when needed.
Steve, so excited to hear your thoughts on this topic. I’ve been debating adding a sub to my system and I’m going to give it a try. Looking forward to future videos and reviews on subs. Harry
Thanks Harry!
I use a pair of Dynaudio subs matched to Evidence Temptations. You’d think there would be little point, but it is simply not the case. They provide that little bit extra that makes listening magical. My subs are 24” off the ground and placed on the outside of the Temps.
2 REL S/5's with 2 Polk Legend L800's here and couldn't be more pleased. Despite the fact that the Polks output exceptional bass, adding the subs was a truly transformative experience.
I have two REL T5i that have used with the KEF LS50 and the Mag LRS with monoblocks. Price is right and 8" fast woofer works well with both as about 50 hZ is their lower limit. Also the downfiring appeals because it disburses the sound more evenly. Had them behind the speakers maybe 3" off the wall...
Fast or slow woofers are a myth/marketing wank. Under 200Hz sound is pretty much omnidirectional, so a downfiring design doesn't really change anything.
While with midbasswoofers like RELs integration is much easier because they roll off hard under 40Hz, hence they aren't powerful enough to excide primary room modes, and will sound better than actual subwoofers without any integration (no crossover between sub and mains and no EQ to correct for excited modes).
I myself upgraded from a similar to REL in performance "subwoofer" (Yamaha HS8S) to an actual subwoofer (Monolith 12 THX). Without any EQ (crossover applied though), it sounded unbearably muddy, headsplitting, bloated, etc, etc. Added some PEQ bands to fix room mode excitement, and my 2.1 setup now sounds better than any high end system I've heard in any showroom.
I get best results keeping my sub up off the floor, away from the wall...it's response is weakest BUT most even thru its own range and throughout the room. it definitely integrates better doing that, even if the "earthquake effect" is diminished.
are you running a crossover between your sub and your mains? Do you have PEQ bands applied to sub outputs to compensate for the sub exciting any room modes?
@@Gamez4eveR 80 hz, no PEQ.
Oh it can be a problem. I always used high impedance inputs until I bought a Schiit Aegir. That’s a no go, Steve. Amp goes into safety mode. Found a work around though. I feed subs directly from speakers’ input terminals. Perfect. High input makes my subs disappear compared to using pre amp sub outputs. Only way to go!
I have one 18” JBL 2245 in a 8 ft3 cabinet in my living room to fill out the Tannoy 3809 bottom end. Blends seamlessly. I have two 18” JBL 2241 subs in my garage to fill out my Altec A-7 Mantaray setup. Listen to Beach Boys “Pet Sounds” and heat Carol Kaye play bass for the first time. You need a sub.
I'm currently building and experimenting with twin open baffle subs. Two 12" woofers per sub that I will place my main speakers on top of. My mains are ported 10" 3-way JBL L50's that I will high pass at 80hz. I know this is backwards from most open baffle setups, typically people run a box sub with open baffle mains, but hey I'm just having fun. My initial testing was very promising.
Subs are well paired with sealed-box satellite speakers where the satellites roll-off at the same frequency used to low-pass the sub. If a higher-order high-pass is desired, it can be added by the preamp to compliment the speaker's natural 2nd-order slope. If the sub's low pass xover is 80hz, sealed speakers with an 80hz F3 & 0.5 Q will blend seamlessly w/o any high pass added to the speakers.
Subs are fun when you hit that sweet spot in volume and frequency cutoff and it just melts into the music. If they sound off, overbearing, or muddy, then you need to play with balancing them some more. They should make everything sound more defined, not less. I use stereo subs, and although I have considered placing them front and rear, they sound so good now there doesn't seem a point to trying it. The secret to subs, is you don't necessarily need a powerful or expensive one to sound great.
I use two DIY subs, with 2-10" drivers each, in push/pull configuration, which cancels much of the distortion. I have them in what I call my Bass Womb. They are both 6 feet away and in the corners. The mains are 11 feet away. After messing around with external crossovers I now use the built-in Xover in my Marantz Av-7705. My new Marantz Audessy 32 NAILS IT! I never hear the bass from behind me. It is the best bass that I have ever heard, BUT I fully realize that there are better ones, store-bought & DIY out there. One of the main advantages is with a proper crossover, you take the low, hard-working bass out of your main speakers and amp, and that will let them SING!! Example: Years ago, I was used Magnepan MG-3's which had a fair amount of bass, but hooked with the crossover/sub I had at the time you could CRANK THEM which would be impossible without taking the bass out. It is audio/fidelity first with me, and if you get that right, surround sound will follow. - Dave Smith from Facebook. GREAT ONE STEVE!!
My solution to no sub-out, grab a soldering iron etc. and fit one. (I'm talking integrated amp's etc., not $2K plus separates/mono blocks etc.) I just use a couple of resistors to sum the channels, and add some attenuation, basically replicating the high level input stage found on some subs.
I did this as doubling up on the speaker leads on some amps is painful and messy, and opens up another channel to accidentally shorting your amp. If that happens to my 'bodge' it doesn't matter as it's the other side of a resistor network and no harm is done.
I set the summer/divider network so I get about 2V with the amp at max output, this seems to work well for me.
Your drawing is outsider art. I like it!
Cheers enjoy your input 👍
Hi Steve, recently purchased a pair of relatively inexpensive subwoofer to compliment my loth X bs speakers and was knocked out with the difference in performance, a bit of fiddling to get where I wanted to be, quelled the constant upgraditist I have suffered from, once you see it you can't unsee it
You don't need matched cables either for high level input you only need signal shape to the subwoofer input.
I truly believe its in the tv home theater domain-no substitute(pun intended)for good pluck from a sting bass-no contrande -and I agree as PS audio explained it p.s. string bass! Then you have ambient music different deal
Sure!
But I already 2.2 both systems with REL powered subs.
So Steve, you didn't mention possible room mode issues excited by subs. 2 subs can go some way to avoiding the null frequencies also.
I'm currently experimenting with Room EQ Wizard (REW). It's helped me identify the problem modes, set crossover frequency, level and polarity of each sub.
Adding a DSPeaker anti-mode DAC resolves the room mode problems for serious listening and you really hear into the recording venue with less of the listening room sound signature superimposed. ( For low level listening it can be defeated acting like a "loudness control" ;-)
Good show, Steve. I'd subscribe twice!