The Problem With Modern Horizons
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
- Let's talk about my love-hate relationship with Modern Horizons, and what it does to Magic.
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Modern is a crazy format but it’s not about the large card pool anymore. It’s a format based around MH sets with a splash of cards from that large pool.
Its almost like they should have not made cards cost FUKKIN ZERO
@@freddiesimmons1394that could explain why they made the new vex thing an uncommon
sounds like yugioh
So it's just like Yu-Gi-Oh.
Or they could have just replaced the coresets with a yearly modern horizons, pushing the powerlevel of the game in general.
If only MH was about buffing tier 2 and tier 3 decks with healthy play patterns.
And never had zero mana alternate costs
If only the execs at Hasbro weren't the greedy shit wipes that they are
Isn't buffing t2 and t3 decks primarily what the previews have shown?
Like flare of denial. That doesn't do anything for current t1 decks
@@Hapkins-le6xf Buffing T2 and T3 decks *now* is closing the door after the bird has been bolted.
Modern needed zero mana answers, it was a format of ships passing in the night. Very little interaction beyond just protecting a combo or win con. Now we have arguably gone too far in the other direction where card advantage engines, mid range decks, and the best top decking decks are the ones that win and pulling off consistent combos is actually pretty difficult.
It's definitely far more balanced and there are way less non games, the best decks aren't so much better than t2 and 3 and you really have to work for your combo wins
@@IVIaskerade10/10 wordplay there. Got a sensible chuckle out of me.
Modern used to feel like a "best of standard" in the same way legacy felt like a "best of the format". Now it just feels like "modern horizons and some other things I guess"
The same way commander used to feel like jamming jank decks together on a theme you came up with yourself and now it feels like playing whichever pre-designed commander deck wizards wants to sell you at legacy power level.
This is my biggest issue with both formats, there are so, SO many cards in magics history and so few of them are playable with where the game is headed. Thats what drew me to modern initially, the "best of" feel, keeping a home for cards for a long time, a fun place to brew 60 card. There is fun to be had in modern now, but I dont feel like it has to come at the cost of such an overnight transformation. Commander too, with how much design resources have gone in to cards just for that format, it makes the whole experience feel homogenized and, again, where old cards do not have a home
What commander precons are at a competitive level? Please show me the precons that make it to cEDH
But us fools buy it.
@@khub5660I think the complaint is that nowadays all legendary creatures are designed with commander in mind, and building powerful decks for them is extremely obvious to the point where all of the decks seem exactly the same. I think EDHREC is more to blame for the staleness of deck building certain commanders
@anexistanthuman2435 went to build obeka, and immediately, the best cards for her are in the same set as her. Try kennen, the same thing the best cards are obviously known and thus get priced higher there is no deck building just following the 90% done deck wotc made. Obeka is cool but the best cards are just card advantage or mana and pushing immediate victory the format is bombs everywhere all of the time.
The next time someone argues that dockside doesn't need banning I would like to ask them how the hell they play this game
To the editor: the animation and transitions on the video are phenomenal and really add to pleasantkenobi's discussion of modern. Thank you for putting so much effort into this video!
I had this same thought! The Cliff Notes bit in particular was some really great visual comedy, and added additional visual texture to the audio =D
I really enjoyed the transitions too.
I feel like @114coolboy6 edited the video
Music - 50% volume please :)
Good video PK, but the video is a little loud lol
agreed, just a lil' lower
I loooove basically all the commons and uncommons in the modern horizons sets, even the busted ones that mess up pauper like ephemerate, chatterstorm, astrolabe, and the bridges. I just wish there was a way to get such neat designs without the exhausting mythic power-pushers like Urza and Ragavan.
agreed
Yeah, shenanigans is my favorite card
Ragavan is utterly outrageous. It wasn't all that long ago this card would have cost three mana.
It reminds me of time spiral, jamming together disparate mechanics. I love it!
I wish Modern Horizon na never existed. The power creep and this ready to modern sets are making any other sets obsolete. Modern now is literally MH block constructed
And? It seems you're only interested in maintaining the value and utility of cards you already have. Why not just suggest that WOTC stop printing new magic cards, or just print low powered cards that will collect dust once they rotate out of standard, and WOTC will have to create ANOTHER format to make people feel like all they own are bulk cards.
@@NeverDauntedRadioNetwork And that's completely antithetical to the stated purpose of Modern. It was never supposed to be an expensive rotating format. It was supposed to be a place to play your old cards without the challenges of the reserve list. They've now created a competitive block constructed format with no tournament circuit to support it. Nobody has a problem with powerful cards coming through standard the same way they always have. WotC deliberately rotating one of the most expensive formats in Magic for profits is why people don't like it. MH is and always was a trash set for what it did to the format. Just sad it took 5 years and the destruction of the best MtG format for people to actually realize it.
@@Fireslingerpirate and yet the draft experience is exquisite. Pricey, but exquisite.
@@NeverDauntedRadioNetwork so you’re saying we should abolish the reserved list?
Legacy is the format for you. Unique and diverse strategies. Brewing potential. No rotations. Deck identity is still there.
I definitely feel the paradox. I was a huge Modern player from 2015 or 2016 until 2021 or so. The last couple years were just exhausting because of Horizons. Occasionally a got a cool new toy (like Counterspell), but that just pushed out older cards I loved more (like Cryptic Command) while also being underwhelming compared to the busted stuff going on with Horizons. Having a rotating format of $1k+ decks just doesn't feel good, and removing meaningful tournament support just really cemented Modern as a thing of the past for me. Modern had enough churn without a Horizons set to keep the meta interesting.
If anything, Horizons should have buffed low tier strats and not put busted stuff into every format. With MH2 they went full "We are creating archetypes from scratch" rather than buffing anything which was just distasteful.
I guess that's why "pre-Modern" exists as a format
I think you said something really important here when you talked about horizon sets skipping standard.
The powerlevel in standard is so high rn that i think they feel like they HAVE TO tune it up for horizon sets. What is a shame, i think modern horizons should be more about making references to old cards and creating new horizons (making new decks viable, suporting old mechanics without enough cards to compete, trying do revitalize a old deck that is now tier 2 or 3, idk) and less about killing older decks injecting uberpowerful staples on the format.
its unfortunately about selling boxes with 360 pieces of cardboard $500
i will say tho that it seems like mh3 is trying to rejuvenate old archetypes that have been phased out by mh1&2. eg affinity, etron, merfolk, etc
I keep hearing this “let’s kill old deck” argument. What old decks fell completely off the map that weren’t already boarderline playable?
@@riotron1026 jund midrange, gds, blink, humans, spirits, golgari midrange, etc
@@blipsontheradar Jund has been struggling with the issue of being too fair of a deck for a good while now. Like I remember when people were switch to Rakdos pre MH2 for the smoother manabase and access to blood moon which helped a ton vs greedy mana decks. Jund’s plays weren’t explosive enough to keep up nor could it comfortably run moon effects and got less popular. Though Jund is still able to keep up somewhat and I’ve come across lists recently that def show promise si to say Jund is completely unplayable is inaccurate. BG rock fell off because G is a bad color outside of combo and the only reason to play G was Goyf. There are a number of ephemerate decks that have popped up using Satoru. There was also a pretty strong Boros ephemerate deck using Solitude & Fury pre ban. Grixis shadow has always come and gone repeatedly. Humans & spirits fell off pre MH2.
I love Soulherder. It's pretty much all I play in Arena, since i cannot afford MTGO. It is pretty fun and creative to see how much ruckus you can create with just ETB abilities. And it crushes my soul that it cannot compete against these faster decks. Because yes, we might not have Ragavan and Murktide regent in Historic, but we have Yawgmoth.
Soulherder deserved to be printed in a standard set. Love that little guy
I bought into Urza in 2019 and having all the expensive cards that I just paid for banned from under me moved me out of modern for good. Been playing pioneer as my format of choice since.
How long before it has the same problem? Serious question
Pioneer is better anyway. Fetchlands are more busted than most of the LEGACY banlist, let alone the Modern banlist.
Bro, like everyone saw that coming. I had Urza ThopterSword from when Mh 1 came out. The deck was too powerful
I hate to break it to you, my friend, but they're going to do the exact same thing to Pioneer once it becomes popular enough, and then you'll be in the exact same position again.
@@cameroncorrado3935 That's definitely a possibility but that is still a number of years out. Should just enjoy the ride like so many players did with Modern for ~8 years.
I think the fact that we haven't seen a vanilla creature in a standard set since 2021 is just a sign of the times.
I mean, are we gonna ignore yargle and multani?
Yargle and Multani?
@@lincolnrea1416 considering it is a legendary yes
I mean, good? Vanilla creatures are kind of boring in draft IMO, the only format they ever saw play in anyways
@@fjordojustice Vanilla creatures existing means they are ok with the power level of vanilla creatures. Now, every creature needs a keyword, needs an activated ability, needs a triggered ability or a conditional. It is a symptom of the power creep problem that vanilla creatures just can't exist and reflects on the shift in card design and the issues with project booster fun. It is the canary in the coal mine of card design.
The bass on this video was so phat, it was diagnosed with cardiovascular disease.
Otherwise, the opinions getting smothered by the bass were spot on!
Honestly, the power creep pushing things out forever aspect is why I can't really care anymore, especially given how predictably quickly WotC broke the "we'll be printing cards to boost lower level archtypes" "promise" of MH1. Sure, power creep is inevitable arguably, but there's just *so* much product now that it feels like even a lot of the more egregious cards have like one year of viability now max until they're either power crept out themselves or banned short of WotC showing favoritism to cards the majority of people hate for profit, like with Grief and The One Ring and Ragavan.
It's basically just a microcosm of the issue they've created by pushing everything to focus on Commander a.k.a. that format that was initially started so that underpowered and underplayed legendaries and other cards might have a home. Whoops.
Tombstalker actually was played in Legacy a loooong time ago in grixis delver decks :)
It's stuff like Modern Horizons that makes me not want to try other formats. I'm also just stuck in Commander because there's almost nothing else to play at my lgs
Modern Horizons destroyed eternal formats. That's why a lot of older players choose to leave Modern and Legacy behind and start playing Premodern or even Pauper.
There's also the heritage format instead of legacy. I.e. how the format was originally intended to be played.
Our group is considering both, Pauper and Premodern.
@@SSolemn other than "60-card put whatever you want inside" format, I am pretty sure that Premodern and Pauper are the best way to play Magic right now.
The EDITING in this video. Ye gods. @.@
The music was perhaps a bit too loud, but other than that -- excellent work.
I think one of the ways we could have our cake and eat it in terms of both having new cards and enjoying the old is by making sure that MH sets only contain "glue" cards.
By that I mean cards that aren't really good by themselves but that help your deck function and not simply fall apart. That way we'd preserve the cool cards we like to build around, while at the same time getting to do new fun stuff with them that keeps up with power creep.
Obviously, this is easier said than done and at some point they'd fuck it up, but right now they aren't even trying, which is why they keep rotating modern every time.
That sounds like the limited/draft experience would be pretty awful if all we got were “glue” cards.
@@NeverDauntedRadioNetwork Do people really draft modern horizons?
This video is more Music Horizons than Modern Horizons lol. Probably just a mixing accident, but it might be good to turn down the background music a little in future videos
When WotC started printing directly for formats, be it Modern, Commander or whatever, they f'd up the formats. When do we get Pauper Horizons with just all commons in the packs?
They'll probably make some kind of goofy new rarity to sell packs lol.
Picture this, mythic-commons 💀
Kaldra is one card I got SO MANY copies of when opening MH2 originally, i think iv got 10-12 copies and only opened a handful of boxes lol
I think they never should have done modern horizons. The entire point of the format was to be a newer eternal format, and to be a place for things that rotated out of standard. I like a number of cards from them but if they want to print something into Modern it should have to print into standard to keep the power creep to a minimum.
Pioneer is the big modern reset. When modern was first created it used cards from the last 10 years, pioneer does the same but for the ten years after. It’s basically modern 2, if you miss how modern used to play then play pioneer
And let's be honest, Pioneer was created because there was this big block of standard rotated cards after Innistrad that were nowhere near powerful enough to be competitive with what was in Modern at the time. Now that Standard is trying to be powerful to, y'know, get people to play the format again, there's nothing but complaints, so in comes Modern Horizons, which is a very popular set through three iterations, and all we get is, "It's broken," 'It's too powerful," "Why is WOTC doing this to the value of my cards, etc."
Magic has to evolve and grow in order to feed their greed. All we can do is adapt and god forbid, craft new decks, which is part of the fun any goddamned way.
But Pioneer doesn't work, because FIRE design is already pile-driving it the same way it wrecked modern.
MH3 as a set looks incredibly fun to me, it's hitting so many of my buttons, but unfortunately I can't afford to play modern and to be honest, I'm not sure I'd like it either. I wish MH3 was somehow Pioneer legal, I want all those spicy eldrazi cards so bad.
I can't believe you used a clip of my husband, E. Aster Bunnymund while talking about magic
That Seinfeld base line rip was perfect
It's a shame about the power creep because the idea of combining old keywords together and referencing old cards just feels so wonderful and nostalgic for me
I used to feel very excited about the first MH set and even the second one, for reasons you mentioned (new exciting cards and callbacks from older MTG cards), but now I feel that is basically a forced rotation of Modern in order to make us buy the new cards, and I just can't keep up.
Hard disagree. MH is clearly an entry point for Modern, and for people trying to get into that format, they need weapons to even the playing field.
the music in the video is too loud man :(
love the video but a suggestion: the music is so loud that its a bit distracting
anyway still enjoyed the content thanks a lot
oh my god you took the words right out of my mouth in regards to the ironic theming of modern horizons being callbacks or a time spiral 2
"Frothing at the gash" killed me 🤣
Hogaak was 1000% the "oopsie" that should have tipped WotC off that free-spells in Modern are a bit much, especially since Hogaak can ONLY be cast for free (you literally can't spend mana to cast it). That said, my Hogaak/Alter/Bridge is still the only non-Commander deck I still have built/sleeved because it's just that much dumb-fun for me. And pushing it out of Modern let me sleeve up Legacy-only cards like Gamble to make it even dumber.
I kinda feel the same. I want all the new and exciting cards from MH3 for commander, but I'm sad and frustrated for all the cards that are going to rotate out of modern, pauper, and so on.
Fully feel the paradox but also feel like there's an extra layer to it too. These cards have to be pushed and powerful to an extent that they make a meaningful impact on Modern to justify increased price of the packs
Not sure why they banned violent outburst. What is coming to modern next month will look like the apocalypse compared to temur rhinos.
My hot take is no card should be printed for eternal formats (this includes commander). Printed-into-eternal cards are only viable if literally more powerful than existing archetype cards and it's a never ending power creep escalation. Commander would've been better off if wotc had some kind of commander-standard they were printing cards for instead.
It makes me wonder tho, why as players can we not just agree upon a printed-into-standard-only format? Pioneer seems cool too but just making the point that we literally just can play magic in the way we want to.
I think the music is a bit too loud in this video, it’s a bit distracting. Still love the content!
See, I understand that card games need power creep in a way to get people to buy new products. My favorite deck ever that I played was Cavalcade in Standard, and I think it’s fun to try different versions with new cards in Pioneer.
They/We should try to make Build Your Own Standard a thing. It brings the power level down a bit from Modern and lets us play some of our older favourite cards
MH1 in a vacuum was one of my favorite sets. It's just packed full of cool designs and combinations of mechanics that could have been.
Same.
Wotc was finally able to answer the question how do we monetize a non-rotating format, you make sets that aren't standard legal and fill them with cards so good that current decks can't continue to exist because they aren't good enough anymore. We haven't been magic players to wotc for a very long time. We're just consumers and they're doing everything they can to get us to consume consume consume. They don't care about fun game play, only money made.
I'm a little apprehensive about what this set is going to do in Brawl, since the cards will be on Arena.
I don't mind buying new cards. I do, however, dislike buying a new deck. Fury, W&6, and Bowmasters absolutely wrecked Elves. Having a set that power creeps one of my staples is fine, but when an entire archetype is crept out. I think that's dog shit.
Banning fury just made grief scam better, now instead of needing red, they run white for the exile based flicker effects rather than/in addition to the presist effects, making it harder to interact with
Would not have expected to have Hour of Devastation Driven to Despair being mentioned in a Modern Horizons video xD^^
Just a note for future videos, the music bass level was a little too invasive into your voice sound layer, lowering the overall audio quality.
Kudos for admitting you were a lot harsher on fury when fury gets to kill 2-3 cards if they have low toughness, but grief gets 1-2 cards, no questions asked. Grief is the problem as it isn't reactive or interacts with the board state, instead goes for the hand, imagine it read "destroy target nonland permanent" ;) (hyperbole but only just)
It does suck to get griefed but it keeps combo decks in check, mid range, aggro and control can deal with a double grief pretty easily and it's more an annoyance than an effective strategy against those archetypes. Against combo it's backbreaking and that's the point. I play amulet, you know how easy my matchups would be if I didn't have to deal with Grief?
@@Cfp-sx2vs There is Thoughtseize and Inquisition. All the other Elementals deal with something on the stack, the battlefield or the Graveyard. Grief is the only one that can deal with anything and attacks the hand, which in my opinion makes it the most problematic.
I get that amulet is a busted deck. I don't think that burn or aggro are great against a deck that takes the best 2 cards out of your hands and has a 3/2 menace creature to block, on turn one.
The cards can be very fun to play with, sure, but on the whole I'm incredibly sad about what MH sets have done to the game. I used to play paper Standard a long time ago, but eventually bought into Modern on the understanding it was a non-rotating format where I could basically play one deck forever, albeit through updating it with a card here or there over time.
At the time (I think around SOI) a chap at my LGS recommended I enter the format playing something I already knew and liked, and back then Spirit tribal was my jam, so I ended up building Bant Spirits for my very first Modern deck. And it worked! Even with powerful classic decks running the gamut (Green Tron, Jund Midrange, Storm etc), the meta kinda allowed for loads of different and niche strategies...
... and a lot of that has fallen by the wayside. I'd dearly love to resurrect my Spirits deck, but why bother? I'd get blown out instantly by MH Block Constructed. The Horizon sets didn't powercreep older cards out, they powerbeheaded a fuckton of actual decks. Why invest in a new Modern deck these days, even after MH3 hits, gets solved and the new hotness definitvely emerges? MH4 will shit all over the monetary and emotional investment eventually. It's depressing, and it makes me wonder why I still hold on to my Fetchland playsets from the times of old.
good video vince. one thing: the music is a bit too loud. kind of hard to hear your voice at points over the ambience
As a Jund Player MH1 was amazing for us but MH2 felt like it shits on our deck it's also the push from some standard removal and feel of trying to warp modern into light legacy. I feel like MH3 might help out Jund but I feel like other decks might arise causing us to fall on our face again. I’m looking forward to Six but Hoping it helps old archetypes that are struggling
I have a love hate for powerful cards, it can be really fun to slam down strong cards and take over the game, but I feel like this lowers the intimate interactions between cards. I absolutely love cards like Dakra's Mystic, cards that give you a smidge of value; that by themselves are fairly crap, but give you intricate game plans. Magic for me is those small interactions.
Content Idea - after all cards spoiled run a poll and take bets on what you think might be banned for MH3.
I still love the idea that they can print new cards straight to modern, and I still hate how much the cards they choose to print mess up the format.
I love modern horizon sets but I am likely going to take a huge step back when MH3 is released. Cards being pushed out and new powerful cards are fine for me...when it is spaced out. But we had LotR last year, MH3 this year, and something (FF?) next year. Way too much for an eternal format like Modern.
I love homebrewing and I feel like while the Modern Horizons cards offer unique strategies, their placements are almost guaranteed and shakes the formats in a way that sometimes is too focused/specific and prevents homebrewing. This goes for mostly MH2 than MH1.
My heart sunk when I saw the new take on goyf. If a speck of hope existed for the OG to make a return in modern, Nethergoyf is the final nail in the coffin. The king is dead.
These free spells; might they be a bit more balanced if the evoke cost exiled both cards, the evoked card and it's evoke cost card?
Can’t Wizards just make extended a thing again but just make it modern with only cards legal in standard? So you can still have modern horizons but also the nostalgia for older cards?
Magic card are becoming so powerful that the texts on them resembles yu gi oh lenght more and more.
You got 2 types of legendaries now
1) 3 ability stacks of "token tribal support" "actual once a turn ability to enable the" " third ability it's a card advantage ability so don't worry about not having cards and don't worry the 2nd ability enables this"
2) copy something you did, "cast a spell cast another for free" "attack triggers double" "damage triggers double" "phases multiply"
It's so much of this it's painful
Modern now is what Vintage and Legacy were when I started. And there was a reason that I didn't get into those formats.
I did also see a similar issue with the Force of Will TCG in my area. The new sets came out, they were faster and more efficient than previous sets and the game devolved into turn 2-3 consistent combos that wrecked face like a modern game of Yugioh.
The game became deterministic simply by your opening hand, and maybe what colour resource you got if you had too many colours.
I see Modern heading in the same direction, but you can search the required colours because of Fetchlands.
I dont think Modern will ever be "deterministic from opening hand".
It's not a paradoxon. This is logic what happens here.
Cards in an ever expanding system, at one point, need to have cards which just outpace older ones to keep the gameplay exciting (so people actually buy the new expansions).
Formats like Modern are mainly there so cards do not have a expriy date so to speak. They are ment to catch cards which do rotate out so people are also more willing to keep buying cards even if they lose their standard legallity.
Modern Hoizons is an example of what would've happened to Magic if they never created the card rotation. They have to outpace A LOT of older cards which sometimes work as good as they do in Modern because of unintended interactions. However, intended interactions to compete with them will always win out in the end, meaning this type of set inherintly is just a secret rotation for a format ment to not do that. It is Yu-Gi-Oh!s approach of how to get rid of old all powerful staples.
Cards that grow to outpace other cards are a spiral of doom solution they did it in yugiho and that's terrible, if you go with the improvement approach you hit a wall of max speed at some point where everything is turn 1 free casting and gambling who has more free cast instant answers first.
No to keep the game interesting you need to broaden the prospect of cards don't just make them objectively better make them situationally better, make them selective to colours (predicting the meta game and building around it is valid) selective situations, specific synergy. Everything is such an everything bomb you get a bs super good card and put it in the deck for it to do everything
Honestly between the cats in Ixalan and the MH3 Kitties, my Marisi Cats deck is gonna look completely different post MH3.
editor cooked on this one wow
I'd like to see something of an effort to revitalize older cards/archetypes with MH-style sets. (For a clunky example, think about how YuGiOh always introduces new cards to "juice" older archetypes to being slightly more playable). MH sets have done a bit of this with Merfolk (good!), but it'd be interesting to see them, say, try to make UG Madness or AR Astral Slide or even Zombies more viable as modern decks. Psychic Frog, for better or worse, is trying to be a new Psychatog, for example, and I can see games playing out similarly. If a MH card makes older modern cards more viable (w/o being too dominant I guess), that's a win. The bad news is that this is rarely the direction they seem to go in.
I still stand by the banning of fury being a miss. Had the ban been beans, outburst, and grief, fury would have naturally seen less play.
4c barely ran fury before beans was printed and likely would’ve gone back to MAYBE playing 2 copies, if any.
Rhinos straight up wouldn’t have the red card count to support fury without outburst because of the color shift to support shardless and plea.
Without grief, scamming fury wouldn’t be nearly as free. Having the scam effects in black and fury in red would’ve meant that scamming actually came at a cost. That’s the current issue with grief. The scam is more of less free and fury was a benefactor of that. A 4 power double striker that came at the cost of 3 cards could still be answered. It was having grief strip all the answers ahead of time that was, and still is, the issue.
The One Ring is from LoTR, but is pushed beyond boundaries. The One Ring being an artifact goes into all kinds of decks too. It needs a modern ban.
Pre-release at our locals is £60..... safe to say I won't be doing it and will buy a few singles for my E-tron deck :L
As a commander player I am pretty excited for allready a lot of the leaked cards... But overall I don't like the heavy powercreep in the last years, as it makes even in casual commander the old geme pet cards nearly unplayable and give you feel bads when you see your engulfing slugworm verses an etali that just steals it and more for free next to stuff like bowmasters, but there comes my hate for universes beyond over aswell... But for 2 mana that card does far to much. Having 2 flash blockers, infinit sac fodder and removal plus possibly killing power in one card for 2 mana? Than we see 4 mana flash 6/6 tramplers and common 1/2s for 1 mana with first strike and haste... It's so much fire design... Uncommons and commons can feel like rares or mythics.... Yeah...
Modern, a non-rotating format where you can play your old card. Modern Horizons, "Hold my beer."
I guess maybe we could blame Pioneer for essentially rotating Modern in the first place and making MH sets a requirement so Moderns isn't just Pioneer but with a bigger card pool.
Part of the reason I fell out of Modern shortly after it released and put a bullet in the head of my usual format was Posts getting banned. Was the only deck I liked at the time and quickly got swept out from under me before I really got to get good with it. It's definitely a risk for some players although I will admit I have considered just jamming affinity to get back into it but idk gotta find a new LGS first.
Really enjoyed the editing on this one :)
Glad you enjoyed it!
Cards like Loxadon smiter and blade splicer were pushed out of the format well before MH1
Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but it feels as though, in the past few years, more emphasis has been put on card efficiency and card utility than new design. And, the more I think about this, the more I feel like it may be a problem related to the treatment of standard.
Anyway, I'll tell you flat-out, I'm not excited for Modern Horizons 3, I'm *bracing* for it.
Only thing I'm excited about for Modern Horizons 3 is to play an expensive prerelease and for fetchlands to get cheaper.
I have only played modern post mh2 so I guess I will see if my feelings change post mh3 but I think modern is just awesome, and for now Im just super pumped about mh3 as well
The only mh cards ive ever had issues with are like 2-3 elements and the obvious broken shit thats banned
So far it at least looks like the mh3 power level is more chill then the previous sets so hoping it will just be good
I feel lucky not having this nostalgia/sadness of losing older cards as what I find fun is the brewing and possible decks to play while them being powerful, even if cards i have gets better cards
The word is "restraint," something a business can definitionally not exercise. Had they any restraint one-tenth of these designs would not see the light of day, and certainly not all at once. Modern Horizons cards can be cool as individual designs, Modern Horizons sets are just WotC acceding to their fiduciary responsibilities.
I’ve always seen MH sets as a mostly good for thing and for 2 reasons. 1.) It gives the game devs a reason to explore more powerful card designs w/o having to worry about disrupting the weaker formats like standard and pioneer especially considering their presence on Arena and 2.) It brings in generically powerful tools to help buff a number of decks and introduces new archetypes to the format without having to hope for a standard set to trickle some remotely powerful card to modern, though these latest sets have been kind of cracked.
No, it doesn’t mean that everyone’s pet deck is going to get love, there are too nay archetypes and mechanics for that to be a realistic goal. Yes powerful cards are going to see ALOT of play, even some you may not like. You can’t really escape some form of homogenization in anything competitive, especially a game like MTG. Along as there is some reasonable counter play to any card/deck and it doesn’t break the format clean in half like what Hogaak did then these new card designs should be fine. Modern much like MTG as a whole has never been overly concerned with nostalgia. The format changes constantly and it’s okay for the format/game to currently look and feel different than the time of your most precious moments of it.
Modern Horizons is why I switched to Premodern as my eternal format of choice. No random injections of cards there.
Premodern is indeed the best format. That and canadian highlander are the only formats I play now lol
@PleasantKenobi What are you're thoughts of the Pre-Modern format, if any?
MH3 has me genuinely concern for the future of MTG. Since the fluctuations of some previous sets where some commander precons dramatically rose in price and some seem to just keep rising in price. MTG isn't an essential to buy but with how bad life can get for many people MTG is arguably one of the best distractions of all time. I mainly play commander and cherish the time I get with my friends whilst we play out our new or existing strategies in a weird and wonderful game full of unexpected moments and often pure laughs because who doesn't want to simply "do the funny" instead of playing serious all the time. The moments we get to have in whatever format keep us happy. The more gatekept people are from collecting their favourite/one of their favourite games the more issues even WOC will face if sales are affected. I also hope LGS stores don't buy too much into MH3 saying that. Imagine if the set has to dramatically lower in price or go further up. Either results in massive profit loss of selling stock fast and being hit hard barely making the money back on it or stock sitting for too long and not moving.
I mean, magic has roughly 22,000 unique named cards in it. Making new cards that are as exciting as older cards without being so underpowered that they're never going to be a consideration compared to older cards or so overpowered they knock out existing cards from consideration.
Modern problems require modern solutions
Yeah, modern at this point should just be called “Horizon 2 format” and in a few months here we will update to the horizon 3 format. I do not think we are getting the product we were sold when modern rolled out. Sure nobody is telling you that you CANT play loxodon simiter… but why would you when you can get a 3/3 deathtouch, first strike flyer that draws you a card for BG, and maybe 45 dollars on a singles market.
i feel like sets such as the lord of the rings set being printed into modern just makes it feel like a second legacy
So, to answer the ending question, no I dont really feel the paradox, I've hated this idea since it was announced and been pretty much just correct i feel. I dont think theres a single card modern horizons introduced thats been good for the format that couldn't have gone through standard
Speaking as someone who has mostly migrated to yugioh but still pokes their head in to magic from time to time, the modern horizons sets all feel like what yugioh’s pseudo rotation does- introduce a whole bunch of unbelievably broken cards what demand that the eternal format’s meta revolve around them, thus pushing the old tier 1 decks out of the format.
Problem being, yugioh at is priciest usually doesn’t exceed the cost of a standard deck (I say usually because the game is currently undergoing a bit of a price restrictive format, where top tier decks are reaching around 800 to a grand usd in price), while a modern deck can reach 1500 usd or more, and let’s not even discuss legacy.
It’s ok in my book if wizards wants to make modern, legacy, etc. pseudo rotating formats in such a way, however they need to reduce the cost of entry to those formats if they want to do so.
I mean they are barely keeping the price of standard at a reasonable level much less any pseudo rotating format.
These sets are good for cube. Theyre strong enough to hang with the old busted cards, and can be ignored without missing much
i feel like mh sets do a great job giving some archetypes and strategies some cards to be on the line again, and also new original cards that crate new archetypes that are awersome, like the soulherder. But there are also too powerfool card that ended to warp formats, like the incarnations. For me mh1 was a better product under this point of view (just let's forget about hogaak), the forces are also more fair, FoN and FoV were necessary to keep in check combo decks.
I think those sets should cost less, maybe have only 24 packs for box and less cards in general in the expansion, like 180 or 200 at least, so that they don't put too much meat on the fire.
Keep it nostalgic, flavorful, powerful and intriguing.
Also the colorshifting of some iconic cards are perfect for commander, like the fresh spoiled disciple of freyalise.
sorry for the long comment and poor english, it's not my native language.
keep it up
i wish you all a wonderful draft experience
There is no paradoxical fear. There is only acceptance. A little ironic this upcoming MH set heavily features eldrazi. Pre MH Modern felt like the best of standards past with a few unique features of the format like Amulet Bloom. Decks evolved at uneven rates and had an ebb and flow. But instead of MH bringing an organic evolution that enhanced the format's identity, they (like eldrazi) warped, twisted, and corrupted modern to the point that MH became its identity.
How pushed must a card be to outclass Path to Exile?
I think they should take an approach of trying to revive decks that have been pushed out, not make free spells anymore, and do more soul herder type things to expand on possible archetypes.
Trash yugioh all you want, but they make an effort to revive old decks with new cards all of the time while creating whole new archetypes at the same time.
I wish we had a swords matter style "Sword Master" to make the swords relevant again.
Swords!
It's a very complicated problem, any powerful cards are by the nature of limited deck space going to push cards out of the format. Modern horizons does go too far, it aims to hit the top of modern in power level and just by the nature of variance it's going to go over the top. I think the idea power level of a set like MH is to be a top tier standard set, introduce some new blood to the format but ideally not take it over, also yearly releases are a mistake IMO. MH should be set on something like a 3 or 5 year spacing.
Ulalek is gonna be stupid with the eldrazi enchantment that copies your colorless things
Fury is banned. None of the creature decks you mention are back in the format - it was never Fury pushing them out, there's just better things to be doing in Modern, including creature decks
i feel like theres a decent chance a non-MH modern format gains actual traction
Would you consider speaking about doomwakes horizonless modern
It isn't just Modern Horizons getting power crept hard, it is everything. After largely ignoring the game during the pandemic and following years and just now coming back to it there are some wildly power crept creatures (in particular) just running around standard sets.
I mentioned this in the video - that it isn't contained to Horizons, but Horizons being the highest concentration of it, and hy design.