Stickers and Attractions BANNED
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
- For the first time since Ante, they just banned an entire mechanic. Or two.
Why I Hate Stickers:
• Stickers Suck - Unfini...
Mind Goblin Prison Gameplay:
• Mind Goblin Deez Legac...
If you are looking to buy cards, why not check out Cool Stuff Inc! Buying MTG singles and sealed product from Cool Stuff Inc supports the show! The new and unique limited edition t-shirts are available now - use the code KENOBI at checkout to get 5% off your order! Check them out here: www.coolstuffi...
#MTG #magicthegathering #goblins
If the worst possible scenario for a design of a card is that it sees play, that card should not be designed.
An occasional check-in of "Hey this is the current nonsense going on in standard" might be a fun video to watch IMO.
since the three year rotation implementation, Standard has not really changed all that much yet
Agreed
@@zztzgzawhat? Like yeah esper is still esper but there’s still a surprisingly amount of variety and new decks
That'd be fun and someone should keep up with Standard. No one talks about it
Yeah I'd be inclined to agree. If nothing else the occasional standard checkin would act as a nice time capsule
Goodbye, Mind Goblin. You will not be missed
Somebody has to.
Mind Goblin?
@@majestyzx9081 Deez nuts
Mind goblin on Deez nuts
Just as the goblins before me, I shall steal this!
Mind globin deez nuts
@@majestyzx9081 Not much, what's up with you?
The reason stickers were a bad idea:
Marked cards are banned.
Stickers are a player aid and do not need to be physically put on cards. Just like tokens and counters.
@@TeethMeat-jm8ou i don't care where you got that from. they do need to be shown. its absurd to expect people to remember.
@@wesleywyndam-pryce5305 can be shown with a token and if you are using sleeves can be a loose paper in the sleeve.
@@wesleywyndam-pryce5305 you said you don't care but that came from mark rosewater
Didn't say to not note a sticker I said you don't have to put sticky strips of paper on your magic cards. You can write it down, put a physical object like a chess piece, have a die that is different and not get confused with the other die uses on the board. A strip of paper in a sleeve, ect.
The Unfinity experiment has finally come to its inevitable conclusion. I love legacy and I love Un-sets. Putting them together pushed me away from both. I am now looking at getting back to legacy and possibly completing my Un-set collection with this ban.
I sincerely hope they just bring back silver bordered cards and never do this terrible idea again. Fuck the acorn!
You are a sad, but complex person. I never thought I would hear someone say "I hate Resee's cups" out loud.
We truly approach the End Times...
@TheGloriousLobsterEmperor it was also awful for the design space of silver border cards as they limited their design space of the set to work with black border sometimes and that made much less interesting cards
It's a shame because making some attractions and some of the really goofy commanders from Unfinity legal in Commander specifically is actually a huge win, imho. Attractions make dice-rolling decks more viable and commanders like Captain Rex Nebula are silly enough to at least brew around.
@@OGNoNameNobodyUnfinity is like Reese’s Cups made out of feces and sawdust.
6:50 what makes rosewaters statement funny is that no group i ever played with had issues with silver-bordered cards in EDH. What people DO have issues with is a larger number of black-bordered cards. People will let you play "the cheese stands alone". People will stab you behind the store for casting scrambleverse.
Man I love scrambleverse.
Yeah, with a little curation and restraint (don't sing, don't play border shifted chaos orb effects, etc) silver border works fine
I play silver border and banned cards a lot and it's pretty rare that someone tells me no
I check in after games too and people generally agree they had fun playing against me, even if they've never seen most of my cards before
My personal favorite atm is Standard Procedure, which can become any instant or sorcery with mana value three or less that's legal in standard
It was a dirty trick tbh, for wizards to make me care about standard, and it's a lot less expensive to use than booster tutor
Edit: I think most people who say that no one would ever let them play silver bordered cards haven't actually ever talked to their playgroup about it
Scrambleverse is a fun card but a misery to resolve in 4+ player games. Warp World style chaos effects I'm more okay with as you only need to know and keep track of the cards you own until after resolution of the spell when etbs or whatever could then change control.
@@kylegonewild scrambleverse is actually very easy to resolve, you just stack all valid permanents and roll 1d4
While I completely agree with your point, the fact that you managed to name one of the only un-cards that has a black-bordered counterpart does very little to support your argument.
I've got a friend who was broken hearted when Illusionary Mask had it's text changed so we let him play the Un land that says all cards in play function as written regardless of rule changes so that he can get attacked for lethal and say things like "a mysterious force is keeping me alive" because there's a platinum angle face down.
"You can make a card bad but it won't be bad forever"
"And I took that personally" ~ All With Nothing, probably
All With Nothing was legit sideboard tech against Owling Mine. So it had it's moment.
The only un-card that actually functions as a real card that i can see is saw in half. Most of the time i forget its even an uncard
Goblin Game is eternal legal, The Cheese Stands Alone is literally Barren Glory. The Monkey Lord is an Un-card for some reason.
2:12 What WotC didnt want to say is that there were players not playing clone effects or sticker cards rhat would bring sticker decks to pump fake opponents.
This was always my biggest issue. In multiplayer formats in particular, these cards will never be cloned or stolen because no one wants to deal with the extra game pieces
turns out, they did mind goblin on those nuts
Back in the day I would just gather the Lion's Eye Diamonds people would leave behind on the tables at various LGSs, because no one wanted them. I wonder what happened to those?
They become expensive as f.
@@AntonioTheTurtleI sold my copy for £150 in summer 2020.
18 months later it was selling for £300!
24 odd years to get to £150. 18 months during COVID bubble period to double in price
One of my favorite decks to play is my commander legal Mira The Magnificent attractions deck. It’s fun, quirky, and mechanically unique. I highly recommend building it!
But is it fun for anyone else haha?
@@chrisbenson6753 No complaints so far 👍
@chrisbenson6753 . Yea most of the legal unfinity legendaries are fun. Myra is a fun artifact (attractions are artifacts) and cheating out spells. My personal favorite is magar where you can turn big spells into creatures to copy the spell when they deal combat damage.
And then there's me off to the side, low-key happy that Attractions are ok in Commander because it means my Mr House deck still rolls a lot of dice to roll. Still confuses me that Wizards made a Mardu dice-roller guy and then barely printed cards that roll dice in those colours.
I run a couple attraction cards in my Shelob deck just for shits and giggles and it honestly is a lot of fun. Killing players with an attraction giving my spiders horsemanship and Fynn the Fangbearer making all their deathtouch inflict poison is so satisfying and usually gets a lot of laughs from the whole table.
Stickers have a neat idea to them but the execution was really bad, I mean in theory giving non-keyworded abilities to creatures is kind of a cool concept but the stickers themselves are definitely not the most graceful way of achieving that.
because they want to ensure you buy the upcoming slop that contains the one mardu dice card you want
maybe it´s foretelling, or as a longshot storytelling, he works with artifacts that represnt the gambling machines, aka attractions.
It was odd that Mr House was done that way. Not necessarily for the effect, it's a thematically appropriate effect and has been proven to be a loved commander for it's theming. It's more just that he was put into Caesar's Legion, a deck that couldn't give 2 shits about rolling dice over being just a go-wide creature deck. If you're gonna give the guy such a wacky effect, it'd have felt more appropriate if he was the star of the deck. It's not like it's that crazy to choose Mr House over Caesar, especially in a set that chose Dogmeat and the friggin' Mothman as Commanders.
I'd say that even without attractions though, for how specific the rolling of dice is as a deck-theme, there are quite alot of cards in Mardu colours that let you roll dice. Just on d20s, you have like 31 cards to roll on and many of those cards are repeated instances and many of them are bangers like the metallic dragon cycle or the ever-memey Deck of Many Things. True, there are significantly less cards that roll on d6s without Unfinity, but between your options, there is a respectable amount of dice-rolling options before considering attractions, considering you're probably gonna still leave some room for general treasure synergies and more generic staples.
I will give you this though, regardless of anything, a Mr House attractions deck is a killer theme. The least corrupt amusement park in the Mojave wasteland, because it's *the only* amusement park in the Mojave wasteland.
@@AlluMan96 I believe he got it's effect first, or got put on the must go list first. Then they tried to fit him in a deck, thus where he landed, and howbout of place he felt. Ppl wanted him to be in the jeskai deck, and with some touchups, he could. Maybe give energy back on a 6 or higher.
I think ultimately the problem with Unfinity wasn't that the cards were black-border, it was that that decision was made well after all the cards were designed, seemingly straight up last minute. If it were designed from the beginning as a black-border un-set, side-deck (which both attractions and stickers are) or physical prop mechanics (which, yes, stickers are) would have never made it into the game. It would have been a set full of the fine mechanics that are still legal from Unfinity. Dice rolling, Saw in Half, etc.
It also would have avoided the stamp problems from the very beginning, because you wouldn't make the set some ridiculous insane mixture of legal and non-legal cards. It would just all be black-border cards, albeit with a sillier tone and with some weird mechanics.
I will say, while I'm happy stickers and attractions aren't legal in competitive formats anymore, I do feel like just using the Rule 0 discussion as a way to play silver boarder stuff in commander isn't really ideal. I've got several rule 0 Un-Decks myself, but the thing is, if the commander or a significant portion of the deck WASN'T devoted to being a goofy silver border thing... I wouldn't really bother. There's no reason Krark's Other Thumb can't be legal now given that there are plenty of black border dice rolling cards and similar re-roll effects... but I'm not about to put it in a dice-rolling deck if its the only card thats gonna be in there, on the off chance that someone in the rule 0 conversation has a hard 'no silver border' stance and suddenly I gotta play a different deck. If the decks entire premise isn't dedicated to an Un-Mechanic, I'd rather the whole deck be black border, just to be safe. But theres plenty of silver boarder cards that are frankly not that egregious and may as well be playable.
Plus, making the cards black border also helps people who wanna play those goofier decks because it ensures those cards have actual rulings on them. There's no ambiguity with how they function that could cause friction at a commander table. I have a friend who doesn't like playing against my Discord, Lord of Disharmony deck because of the ambiguity with how you should choose a card with him, if stuff like planes/conspiracies are possible to hit, and even ambiguity with when the ability triggers a second time. But she's fine playing against my Magar of the Magic Strings deck, because how his effect works is clearly defined by the rules. I don't think designing un-cards to be playable in commander is inherently bad. I just do agree it can be a problem when it crosses over into competitive formats.
what was the point in even making these legal when they just get banned anyway? literally no one asked for legal un-cards. and the "I don't make the rules, ma'am, i just think them up and write them down." justification for why they couldn't make these are legal in commander and nowhere else is just priceless.
The point was to encourage unset booster sales by trying to include "desirable" cards. All about the money
@@brandondew5743those already existed in the full-art shocklands
I wanted them purely because it is hilarious but I don't think I really count
This is honestly my main issue with some of the Un-set cards; When the card itself either becomes unplayable because there isn't a non-player around (certain joke cards call for it), or when they make the game a logistical goddamn nightmare... it just ends up not fun to play with.
Meanwhile the "Half-x" "...half-x" cards are fun, goofy, and completely self-contained, so it's clear that un-sets can have fun and playable cards in them. Wizards just have to figure out a way for the un-sets to have decent value in them. Like, add slots into the boosters that are guaranteed reprints but with special funny art perhaps? I'd love an un-flavored art version of stuff like Smothering Tithe and Anointed Procession.
None of the cards that require a non-player around are legal outside of un events. The vast majority of the un cards that are legal don't do anything incredibly silly, and the ones that due are expected to be played in an LGS with a bunch of other people around.
Un-themed reprints would be cool (I mean, the cosmic Shocklands proved that already), and having them as the bonus sheet (or maybe a double-bonus-sheet thing so you're getting a couple per pack?)
They should just erratta or alt rule "_____ goblin" to be roll a d20, 1 to 9 is 4 mana; 10-18 is 5 mana; 19 or 20 is 6 mana. The sticker sheet is just a flavor on a chance and stats. Having a mana positive creature that is not as broken as dockside in commander is nice.
The Barely 1 shockland per box was the real crime of the un set. Like the rest becomes worthless the second the draft is over.
Most people dont want silver border card in their commander deck or in decks at the table so that doesnt work. Un sets didnt sell well, so they tried to make un have some appeal outside of un by making a portion of the cards commander legal by the actual rules not by rule 0.
The primary reason to always keep Un-cards not allowed in Commander games is that, 99/100 times, if the person wants to play the card, it's because they're exploiting it somehow. Had a guy once ask if he could play an Un-card in his deck and showed us it was "By Gnome Means". When we told him he could if he also replaced "Magosi, the Waterveil" (a card he didn't show us was in the deck) with an Island, he got up and left the table.
That would be fair unless infinite extra turns with artifacts.
@@AntonioTheTurtle My point was you'll rarely see folks wanting to play Un-cards even remotely close to "fair".
Aw. I wanted to put my copy of Opening Ceremony into something just for the absolute chaos of not knowing what I'm about to open.
in general you put in your deck cards that you are planning leverage for your benefit so it's not surprising someone wants to leverage silver bordered cards too. for a brief moment RC made silver bordered cards legal in commander in 2017 so i put split screen and mise in my topdeck manipulation rashmi deck. it was interesting and while mise seemed fine split screen was busted. and those were cards that i selected to not be obnoxious during gameplay. i can imagine someone resolving rules lawyer or the great calcutron will usually not lead to fun games for most players.
I play attractions in my Mr House deck for two reasons, extra dice rolls and like 3 improvise spells. House of mirrors is the only truly broken attraction, but i don’t think it has ever actually won me a game.
Hearing you say "Marky Mark...no not that one" made me feel old
The problem is some of the silver cards are just so insanely broken. It’s hard to allow someone to play with them. Like when we first got into commander my wife wanted to get this card that was basically everyone’s graveyard is considered your graveyard because she had a deck that returned stuff from the graveyard so she wanted to be able to just return stuff from anyone’s graveyard, but obviously the card is banned and commander Genuinely we don’t wanna play with cards you can’t play with everywhere cause then you build a deck around stuff you can’t do which I get, but that problem is a lot of these cards are just insanely broken then everyone’s graveyard being your graveyard a lot of implication that is just insanely broken on its own. And that’s what a lot of the infinity cards and the silver border cards are old is really broken because they knew they weren’t supposed to really be used so they can be as ridiculously overpowered as they wanted them to be.
Most of them are actually trash. Very few are playable beyond an amusing curiosity even in commander. Of all the sets in Magic's history what's actually in the silver border sets is remembered the least. City of Ass for example is just a worse Path of Ancestry. There's no additional benefit to what you spend the mana on like the scry 1 and unless you're specifically playing more (bad) cards from Unhinged you have no way to spend "1/2" of a mana and no rules outside of Unhinged *specifically* exist, as far as I'm aware, that would combine those "1/2" manas into a single mana. It would just generate an extra unusable "1/2" of a mana that can be ignored. Slightly better than a rupture spire which is functionally unplayable these days.
Man you got me scared for a second, thought my Most Dangerous Gamer Commander Deck was done for... ^^
There are plenty of silver borders I'm fine with people playing but there's a caveat that if it can't be properly represented within the regular rules or at least well abstracted it's a no go. Also can't force any player to perform some sort of physical action not laid out in the official rules (no making someone do the hokey pokey). Sword of Dungeons & Dragons for example is fine with me from a play perspective with there being 2 options for dealing with the fact that "gold" is a not a actually color in magic: either the dragon token is all colors of your commander, or you have to pick when you cast spell which one of the 5 real colors does the sword generate.
Still, they never should have gotten rid of silver borders because hardliners can just say "no thank you" and people can swap decks or find new pods as necessary.
I play a Myra the Magnificent EDH deck. It's literally what got me back into the game after the pandemic. I love the deck to bits, and it is loads of fun. I 100% agree though, that this stuff had no business in legacy or other 60 card constructed formats.
Cards from 'UN' sets should have never been tournament legal, but Hasbro did this to get people to buy UN packs...
In addition to the talk about 0, my LGS recently had an 'event' where people decided on a rule 0 that everyone plays with two commanders regardless of whether they could partner. Honestly quite a fun idea to mess around with.
[[No one tell him about the Pride Month Even]]
🦀🦀🦀 Unfinity is GONE 🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀Mind Goblin is GONE🦀🦀🦀
Unfinity? More like unfunity
I will always allow anyone to play 1 card from an unset and that's booster tutor (helps the shop I play at or is just funny and doesn't do anything crazy) plus is funny to see what gets pulled!
Mark's post is the most wet blanket, "dad make brother play the game i wanna play" thing ive ever seen from wotc
Really? I see it as the most 'magic players are shitbags' thing I've ever seen
The next Un-set should just be 4 Commander precons
They did that already;
It was called _UnSanctioned_ , and it was 5 decks.
I wish more people talked about pauper
Love the silver boarder un cards. I even collect them
Hated Unfinity because it ruined the point of a silver border set
Now theyre throwing "joke" cards like Holy Cow and Loan Shark in main sets
magic sets have always had joke cards
@@bradley8690 Nobody tell 'em about Apes of Rath or Goblin Offensive.
Magic sets have always had punny and silly cards though??? the cards mechanically are completely fine its just the names...
@@Spootprime yes. holy cow is absolutely no worse than apes of rath
Why did people call it "mind goblin" instead of something like "sticker goblin"?
MIND GOBLIN THESE NUTS
@@HeroGuy3 got eeeeeeeem
I never heard mind goblin outside of this channel. Mind you, the only other RUclips channel I watch regularly for magic is LSV. He always called it Name Sticker Goblin. Which is much better.IMO
mfw we try to solve the "problem" of having a two sentence exchange before a commander game because someone wants to play Pair o' Dice Lost and end up having to ban over 50 cards in eternal formats and kill the chance of having another Un- set in the future
I think MaRo is showing a fundamental lack of understanding of the purpose of Rule 0.
Rule 0 is not about making a good ban list or creating a healthy format. Rule 0 is about being open for communication and both sitting down at a game you will both have fun at. Or at least that is the goal. And if someone sees your silver bordered card or your sticker pile or whatever and their answer is "No that isn't something I want to play with." that is still completely valid communication. That isn't a failure of rule 0 to do what it is supposed to do but a case of it working as intended.
Trying to skirt around it by making the cards legal in general doesn't prevent those negative interactions it just puts them into the same situation as playing hated cards in a pod that hates them. Like yeah the rules won't stop you from bringing a CEDH deck to a table full of precons or stop you from playing a MLD/Wrath theme deck but it's not going to make those decks any more liked by the players.
Unsets are fun for people who sign up for that. I'm glad they walked this back and hopefully will keep Unsets JUST as Unsets (on their own little island and not inbreeding with EDH even).
Trying to make something not powerful is the standard of not only mtg but games in general. It is already shown in systems like card rarity, a common is generally less powerful then a mythic. Otherwise things like demonic tutor would be in every set. Verying power levels help you appreciate the powerful cards, it sets a standard that shows how actually powerful a card is. Magic is a complicated game and not everything is found in testing but finding a way to make a "bad" card to have a powerful effect is also fun, it promotes deck diversity and keeps things from going stale.
Kind of a bummer that Unfinity has flopped as hard as it has. I got a chance to talk to Mark Rosewater at a con about how much I loved Unstable, and he IMMEDIATELY asked if I'd played Unfinity. It's clear he loves the set quite a bit. Gotta feel a little bad about that.
What's worse is that my issues with silver border is the same as I've recently have with all these mechanics that make me keep track of a bunch of nonsense (like day and night). All in all silver border is just a jumble of random things that are taxing to keep track of not knowing if they have either no impact or are super important in the game. Haha funny the first time but quickly becomes exhausting after that.
Silver border is traditionally experimental design space.
A bunch of shit thats now standard comes from ailver border, like alternate wincons. A lot of it is a bust, a lot of it becomes the norm.
Standard has been pretty fun during Lost Caverns and now OTJ. I say give it a shot to see if you like a 14-set Standard!
Recently attended a larger legacy event, and yeah, the pregame sticker deck phase was silly to say the least.
The great evil has been defeated. Now we just need to fix day/night
they could errata old werewolves to work with it
Attractions are not as bad as dungeons & initiative
Dungeons are fine.
Initiative, on the other hand, is a parasitic game mechanic. If one player plays initiative, everyone plays initiative...
I play Crow Storm in one of my more casual decks.
Regarding the line st 5:28, they were referring to how they cant release black bordered cards for one supported format without them also being legal in Vintage and Legacy due to how those formsts work. This isnt the first time they have run into this type of issue, as Wizards has expressed previously the pains that come from trying to make a fun Modern themed set without it overly impacting the eternal formats.
The thing is, they literally make the rules. If they decide they want something they can make the rules to make that something. Yes, doing that a lot creates issues and Magic already suffers from rules bloat, but something as simple as "these are only legal in Commander as shown by this thing on the card" is well within their purview and seems pretty reasonable.
Man... I don't even know if my unfinity cards made it through my house fire.
Even the new un cards that they made that are legal are usually not allowed in most commander playgroups
Unset cards belong in unsets unless they’ve been printed in another set that’s legal in certain format
Standard "Temur Elementalist" or as I call the deck "Worldsoul's Combo"
I was literally about to build goblins for Amsterdam too! I'm just going to play to my strengths and play Eldrazi Stompy, or bite the bullet and play Patchwork Stompy (still need my set of blue synthesizers)
They banned 94 cards
by banning all cards that care about stickers & attractions, the effectively banned the sticker & attraction cards as well.
I'd watch a standard video. I get that with the family stuff it's hard to do all the long form gameplay videos, but if you put up stream recordings, I'd watch those too
For a development team who can't forsee the drastic impact of the free forces, obliterating cards like orcish bowmasters, and oko, i guess it's understandable that they couldnt see these problems, lol.
I for one see a rising call to reprint a curated, revised black bordered unset
Un-sets are basically dead now. The half-legal thing fell to pieces and they've shown they can do ultra-goofy in regular sets with Thunction and Murders
I'm an avid un set supporter and even I hate stickers. I'm also against un sets having black boarders.
I think you might enjoy the chicanery that is Temur Archivist in standard
I do think it is slightly more complicated than making cards less powerful so they could be in black border(/non-acorn). I believe MaRo talked about how the decision to make some cards tournament legal was done fairly late in the process. IIRC, the process he described was a committee involving (among others) play design (for power level consideration), the rules manager (for ability to work in the comprehensive rules), and templating (for being able to word the card reasonably within the rules) going over the card file to determine which cards could be printed without the acorn. He also said that they tried to err on the side of leaving cards with acorns, though obviously they missed on one card. I'm not sure if they adjusted the power level of any cards so they could be made non-acorn, but i certainly didn't get the impression that they did that extensively. And they certainly didnt design cards wholesale at lower power levels for that purpose.
I do know they have designed cards for previous unsets that would've potentially be too powerful for black border at the rate they were printed. I was recently listening to MaRo's card-by-card podcast for unstable, and he was talking about Crow Storm as an example of this. The card works perfectly well within the rules, but would have to be much more expensive to be tournament legal. That suggests to me that they are comfortable making cards at an appropriate power level for the set, and making acorn decisions separately (though I can imagine tweaking cards *slightly* to be able to drop the acorn).
5:11 one with nothing has entered the chat
Stickers, yes I agree even in Commander - That doesn't work at all
Attraction for me is on another topic because, is similar to have a sideboard on the commander but in the other formats, there is already a sideboard that can be use has a side deck.
The difference is that with Lessons and Wishes, you can get the card that you need while the attractions deck is a random card that can trigger after you role a dice (2/6 or 3/6 change to get the necessary trigger).
If the issue in legacy or vintage (I don't play much so I don't really know what is the main problem with attractions) is the randomness of the triggers, then shouldn't all the cards that have dices roll or coin flip to be also removed?
Again, for me, this is a complicated situation regard attractions and I wish I could understand better this specific.. but I agree, BLANK Goblin being ban is very good.
Whew! Thought I'd have to shut down my WUBRG dice roll deck.
This was so stupid from the beginning, 'if we don't make the cards strong we won't have to worry about them showing up in tournaments'. People rarely enjoy weak cards even in commander which was their target to begin with.
I think one of the things about silver border that I get is that even if the cards are actually worse than the alternatives, people still get kind of a stick up their ass about wanting to make sure you play by the exact, sanctioned rules. To give an example I discussed with my playgroup about wanting to build a deck for Mr House, but using all the d20 cards from the DnD sets felt like cheating to me and I asked if they'd be okay if I instead ran cards from Unstable which had me rolling a d6 instead. These cards would be explicitly worse in his deck which rewards you for rolling a 4 or higher, but my playgroup, for the most part, said no to silver bordered cards.
So there is a point at which I do think that cards that should be okay from a game play perspective shouldn't be silver border even if they're in an un-set... but Wizards doesn't seem to know where that line is.
They did the black border to sell packs, but honestly, if they had just put 3-4 shocklands per box instead of 0-1, they would have sold even better!
I think a black border unset with a silver border bonus sheet is the happy medium they need
Good thing we still have commander.
Me, a professional commander hater watching this video: Fuck sake goddamn commander amirite
Pat Sullivan's reaction to Mind Goblin on Shuffle Up and Play on TCC told me everything I needed to know about those cards lmaooo. I had never seen them before either and he was translating my thoughts in real time upon seeing the card played. I have never laughed so hard seeing someone read a Magic card lol
As a heretical Silver Bordered enjoyer...
I like a good Silver Bordered commander - my Grimlock "Dinos in vehicles" EDH deck is a load of fun and isn't breaking any implicit social rules. If someone really disagrees, I can just swap to any random Gruul commander. No skin off my back.
But Unfinity was *heinous*
The fact that it mandated sticker play in formats that have no business being sticker formats is one thing, but the fact it outright doesn't even interface with the other Un-Sets silver bordered mechanics is just stupid.
There are cards in the old Un sets that care about border color for their mechanics to work, and having unfinity all be black bordered means there's no interaction with stuff like Ineffable Blessing or Border Guardian.
I love Un-sets, I love the craziness they bring to games, I have multiple decks with silverbordered cards in them, i hope some day we get another (silverbordered) Un-set. But they never should have been legal in competitive Magic, end of story.
It surprised me when I learned Unfinity cards were legal. Also, I miss old Edh, where we could use our junk rares in our decks and 🤙 me up with weird combos. Now the cards are designed to work with commander which makes it inherently less fun. Pauper, whether it's Edh or not, is where it's at for me. It still has the feeling of using cards not for their intended purpose.
I didn't even hear about this until this video!
Thanks for keeping us updated Vince!
But totally agree with you rant on putting these game mechanics out like they do.
Love ya as always!
id definitely love to see a standard video from you PK!
Truly a sad day for magic. The end of the best mechanic in standard
Are you high?
@@PleasantKenobi I just understand the simple joy that is a stupid gimmick in a serious tournament
Also the lack of logistics is currently making 40k cards (Sicarian Infiltrator) skyrocket in value to $15 each. We need reprints badly or bans in eternal formats for all tie in sets. Which, I would LOVE Bowmasters and One Ring to eat a ban.
Vince yucking Mark's yums. Absolutely agree on stickers though, and I haven't even interacted with them but I hate the implementation. It's an interesting design space that legacy games use and I love it there. Sadly WotC missed the mark testing them on an Un-set.
I don't think that silver border cards are unpopular for people to play because they are unfun. I think it has much more to do with what you said about having to talk to your opponents and have them be ok with it every time. It's just a hassle. And to top it off, silver border stuff don't even appear on sites like edhrec, making it even more of a hassle to find cards that may fit your deck.
In fact, if you look at the old silver border cards, there are quite a lot of them that function exactly like a black border card would, except the name and art is funny. Krark's other thumb and the cheese stands alone comes to mind.
I’m fairly new to magic and primarily play standard. It’s crazy powerful right now and lots of fun. I’m also excited for rotation cause it seems a ton of strong cards will be rotated out so it should really shake things up. Why are so many people down on standard?
I would wager that a LOT of not liking Standard at any given time is just Pavlovian at this point.
Stay in this hobby long enough and you'll find that some Magic opinions do not have any connection with actual reality.
@@Zomburai45 lol. Yeah the more I talk with different people the more I see so many conflicting opinions. My one friend said standard was terrible but the last time he played standard was in 2018!
I can confirm for you, silver-border hate is real. At our local store, many players will REFUSE to play commander with you because "they're not legal magic cards." They also won't let people use proxies because "they're not real cards." I got so sick of it, I don't even play paper magic anymore.
I just play my Dee Kay, finder of the lost commander in my zombie grave deck for shits and giggles. People always do a double take on it cause it’s such a random deck to bring out at my LGS
Fuck's sake, Goddamn Commander amiright!?
I'd watch you play pioneer for sure
"Tournament Logistics" is why Yorion was banned. The integrity of an 80+ card deck and shuffling took too long, or some bs they said lol
Make them all Silver-Bordered... And then give some of them a tiny accorn (in addition to being Silver-Bordered)...
There. All Silver-Bordered are NOT VALID in Legacy. But all Accorns are VALID in Commander.
Wouldn't it be nice like that?
So I can’t play my Myra extra turn attraction deck in commander anymore? :(
I know this isn't entirely important but wasn't it impossible to play attractions in Pauper anyway? There are 9 common ones without the acorn and the minimum required for an attraction deck is 10 (with no repeats). So sure, the cards themselves that open attractions could theoretically have been played but they would have done nothing in the format because it was not possible to build a legal attraction deck in Pauper.
.Any cards printed in Un-sets and commander precons that aren’t reprints of Standard legal sets, shouldn’t be legal in Vintage, Legacy, Modern, or Standard.
3:50 - I mean, esoteric knowledge about how the rules interact, sure, but I hardly ever see turns as complicated as a single modern YGO turn.
The core issue that unfinity's setup was trying to solve is cards that were perfectly doable in black border, but were just slightly silly, and people saying no to *those* simply because they're silver bordered and people are often too tryhard.
Dont worry, Mr. House players, Attractions still legal in Commander.
Yay!!!
STICKERS ARE BANNED! BANNED! OH GLORIOUS DAY!!!!!!
Make a Supertype "Casual"
I love your caveat at the end that you'd rather they experiment than always play it safe. Fully agree that this one missed the mark, but I appreciate them trying something.
At least you don’t have to worry about playing the deck correctly anymore!
I would watch a video about Standard.
I just think the "un" sets are just in such a weird part of the general meta of magic that it confuses people. I don't like to look up if something is actually legal when I run into it during play.
I liked Unfinity! They should just get rid of the acorn and make it silver or black border cards. I think the acorn was sacrificing clarity for the sake of production. The cards actually being banned in Modern is justifiable and also funny AF.
So glad Commander is untouched - I personally LOVE all of the Un-Sets and having legally playable mechanics in commander was such a blessing for me
WotC can't ban/unban a card in Commander because WotC does not get to control Commander. Neither the Commander Rules Committee nor your playgroup are part of WotC. The closest WotC can do is choose between black border and silver border. Even then, pods can rule 0 to ban a black bordered card(s) or allow a silver bordered card(s).
So don't worry, WotC can't touch Commander.
Although I think "functional" is more important than legally playable when it comes to un-set cards. The Sticker and Attraction cards would have been fine as Silver Bordered. You would just ask if you could play your attraction deck, and pods that want to play that game would agree. On the other hand there are cards like Form of the Approach of the Second Sun that don't technically work well within the rules of Magic. Eventually I will have decks for Sole Performer and Earl of Squirrel because Silver Border is just like Chaos or Stax, just ask the playgroup.
Yeah same. I would never play stickers, but I totally love the attractions. And it's one mechanic that basically every one in the commander matches I played loved, they always found my most dangerous gamer deck quite fun.
@@TheEmperorAs Yeah the stickers I do try to keep in my actual silver-border decks, not my favorite of the two mechanics but I do enjoy the nonsense of it every now and then. I have a flicker deck that tries to abuse some of the LTB sticker effects and the fact that they stay attached in exile, but it's silver-only so I don't play it often and don't go through sticker sheets very fast. It uses stuff like Form of the Mulldrifter and D00-DL too, so the stickers also aren't the only thing the deck does anyways.
Attractions are pure gold though, my Myra deck is one of my favorite legal decks and I have a silver brew of Rashmi and Ragavan that utilizes Attractions and Contraptions. The Most Dangerous Gamer is on my to-do list! I'd be interested in seeing your build if you care to share
@@CountDankula420 Puh I don't have a written out list, but definetly one thing I can recommend is Night Shift of the Living Dead, because it's the only really good thing that can reliably get you the Attraction hits.
Combine that with a) tutors to get the entchantment, b) at least one or two cards to recurr it if it gets taken out and c) really good attractions (though you probably already know which ones since you play the other commander as well) and your good to go.
Apart from that I do have a lot of counter stuff in there, the whispering Kami and Kodama of the West Tree for example, Hardened Scales, Vorinclex, Ozolith etc. Makes the Gamer a dangerous attacker as well as utility creature opening the attractions . And of course some other creatures that profit from all the counter stuff.
Finally I have put just tons of 2 mana ramp in the deck to get the gamer out consistently on turn 3, making the him more likely to stay on top attacking. Of course also add stuff like lighting greaves, swiftfoot Boots etc.
And the rest is basically just interaction and generically good Golgari cards / pet cards that I like to put in my deck : )