Thanks for watching guys, I guess let the debate begin on bayonets! As always accompanying article here - armourersbench.com/2023/10/22/does-the-l403a1-mount-a-bayonet/
@thearmourersbench I believe various companies offer picatinny bayonet mounts, at least one of which is suppressor compatible. How resilient they are to an enraged marine/ para shoving it in one of HM enemies I can’t say
It's not the UK's new Rifle so the question is void from the outset. The Rifle is only 'Available' to a few chosen regiments and SFs. That does not make it 'The UK's New Rifle.' The SA80A3 remains the UK Service rifle.. No that's not at all impressive but it is however the truth of the matter.
Calling this weapon trash just bc it can't mount a bayonet is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I can't tell people's nationalities from text, but sounds like xenophobes just hating on anything British.
Frankly I would've been more surprised if a bayonet were part of the requirements. Not because they're of limited utility on the modern battlefield, though, but because it's currently intended for issue to special forces, which means the suppressor's going to be on basically all the time which prevents mounting this pattern of bayonet. Were it intended for, or later expanded to, general issue then I fully expect a bayonet to be demanded, because its the British Army and trying to stab the enemy when you could've shelled them is evidently amongst their eldest and most noble traditions.
That's a good point but if it is out into general issue then it should be capable of taking a bayonet because people seem to forget that they have way more uses than thrusting it forward to stab someone. It's a tool like any other
We attached them with even 0.1 chance of using them in Afghanistan 2012, never got to use them, small arms fire was enough and if not assets available were used. So if us light infantry don’t need it to win doubt it was high priority
@@EnSayne987 It's not going to ever be general issue. Brass isn't going to afford buying Knights Armament Company AR platforms for the entire army. To be honest, special forces were already using Colt Canada AR platforms rifles anyway, now they are getting even better AR-platform rifles We have field shovels/entrenching tools and if it really comes down to it, a fixed-blade knife. The bayonet design that KAC have shown is clearly oriented towards being a combat tool only. The point is a needle, and it's edged on both sides so you're always pointing a knife edge at yourself when cutting. Look at the bayonet that we put on the L85 and you'll see it's much more reasonable as a field knife. This KAC bayonet is not - the blade itself looks like a fairbairne-sykes! But we're never going to afford kitting our average men and women in uniform with ARs so slick that they're costly even to American civilians. hell, the Americans made the move to the M4 in 1995. They still hadn't got 100% of servicemen off the M16 by 2020.
I'd be surprised if they weren't bayonets while providing practical value are generally issued mostly for the fact that they hold a major scare factor, that gun can now stab you so getting close isn't gonna be the same as trying to punch a gunman without a bayonet and people are less likely to run(we obviously can't ignore the fact that they'll be intimidated by a gun, but it does compound according to US studies in situations where you need to control local populations), they're a major intimidation factor and a contributing factor as to why they've been issued for some time now, though I'm sure they hold less practical and less intimidation value now that they don't make em the good ol 16 inchers which would scare the shit out of most people I say.
It's amazing how far the AR platform has come, from the original M16 to GWOT era M4, the SCAR, HK416 and now the L403A1. Eugene Stoner was a true genius!
@@dallenhumpherys7911 The 416 is just an AR-18 gas system on an AR-15 and the SCAR is a ground-up design with AR-15 controls and an AR-18 gas system. Of the list presented by OP, all can be considered part of the AR platform, however, the SCAR would be the most distant of them.
"If it's a miracle, color sergeant, it's a short chamber Boxer Remington point two-two-three caliber miracle." "And a bayonet, sir. With some guts behind it."
The bayonet is absolutely gorgeous with that milled out fuller, it almost completely resembles the Spartan Blades V-14 dagger, the most visually stunning dagger I've personally ever seen (straight behind certain variations of the Fairbairn Sykes 1st pattern).
The Brits have gone all out with the procurement of that fine top of the line American combat rifle. Nobody will be able to say a damn thing about the Brit's service weapon now. The accessories are outstanding as well. I am envious ASF haha. Bravo 👏 💯 🪖
it's not their service weapon.... the SA80 isn't getting replaced. the description quite literally says ALTERNATIVE weapon system. it's for select units only.
@@cr1tikal_arc Yes I am aware of that, but give it some time, allow the guys issued the KAC to report on its already obvious superiority and other units will begin to receive them as well, Britain can finally dump that abomination of Stoner's AR18.
Bayonets are still useful for dealing with prisoners, crowd/riot control, close assaults, and of course, the event that all other fighting options run out. It turns out that people are less willing to try and jump you physically if you have a pointy knife ready to stick them with. And on top of that, intimidation factor, placebo effect, and tradition. And there may just be a bit of bias on my behalf because the first gun I ever was fascinated with was my Uncle's P14 and its 1907 Sword-type bayonet.
@@christopherdean1326 Perhaps "placebo" isn't the right word. Say gou have a big fuck off knife on the end of your rifle, and it might not actually ever make a difference. But you feel safer knowing that you do.
this rifle is to be used by S/F so more important things required than a bayonet. Plus they all carry a handgun which can deal with close quarters very easy.
Some people keep referring to the bayonet as "last ditch" but its anything but in British service. Its an intrinsic part of the section battle drill. At this point my stalker will report my comment for the sixth time in a row.😂
I would have thought (if the need arose) a bayonet that could be used with the suppressor would have been more useful. Have a mounting point under the hand guard or something?
I am surprised they designed the bayonet as a blade. I thought the older style where the bayonet was a round steel rod with a diamond-shaped tip was far better. Much less likely to break and could be extracted more easily after use.
Spike bayonets are relatively useless for what bayonets are used for for 95% of the time - as a knife. Rod bayonets are definitely less likely to snap but less generally useful.
There is a need for combat infantry to have hand-to-hand combat capability because it isn't always practical to dump an air strike or artillery barrage on the enemy. Sometimes bullets and hand grenades are not useful. Then there is a need for back-up weapons when the weapon malfunctions or is out of ammunition. Bayonet or something else? One hand-to-hand combat system taken off the table due to cost and social issues is giving every soldier a pistol. Fighting knives are "too savage" for peacetime armies. The modern police telescoping baton is a metal rod used to whack people--I oversimplified that! Having to drop the primary weapon in order to fight with the secondary weapon can be a problem. Speaking of bayonets, even though the bayonet was used extensively in the trenches of the Great War 1914 to 1918 there were a large number of melee weapons introduced: pistols, maces and clubs, brass knuckles, and trench knives, and the ubiquitous infantry spade (entrenching tool) was often pressed into service as a weapon. One melee weapon that vanished from the WW1 battlefield was the sword. The bayonet itself used to be sword length with blades in the 16-inch range. During World War Two bayonets shrunk to half that length--the M4 Bayonet was based on the M3 Trench Knife and had the same seven-inch blade, and ten inches was regarded as enough. The Rifle No 4 spike bayonet was all of ten inches overall, with a "blade" of eight inches. Hand-to-hand combat still happens in infantry battles. An American Cavalry soldier and an insurgent in Iraq both suffered weapon failures, the insurgent pulled a knife and charged, the American grabbed the Iraqi and threw him out the window to die on impact five floors below. It's hard to carry around a tall building with a paved street at the ground floor as a hand-to-hand combat weapon.
@@demonic_myst4503bayonets are definitely more savage but at the same time their use is largely like holding out a spear at arms length. It is also of course attached to a rifle! The extreme intimidation factor and the risk of self impalement scares off target/rowdy members of public. A knife however doesn't have the intimidation at distance power to it, instead it is only usable in close range when it really must be USED in a scrap, in which case the soldier has no real option but to start viciously stabbing away or risk being hurt themselves. This is unacceptable in peace time, and today even in war time you are likely to get people attempting to prosecute. Claiming that the victim was stabbed without being given a chance.
@@demonic_myst4503 depends on your perspective, as the one doing the stabbing i'd say knives are a lot more savage as it takes a certain amount of savagery to stab someone at close range with a knife. Whilst a bayonet is less personal and easier to do without having to go crazy or put yourself at risk of being grappled or such. Plus usually a bayonet is used with a single strike forcing the enemy to the ground whilst a knife doesn't tend to instantly disable the opponent so if they also have a knife the chances of mutual injury is high compared to a bayonet plus tends to require multiple stabs when face to face, that's the kind of thing that stays with you for life. I feel that stabbing someone with a knife is more "personal" than a bayonet so has more impact on the attacker compared to a bayonet and requires you to be a bit more "crazy" to do without mental impact.
I’m in no way an expert but would it not be easier to develop a bayonet with a quick attachment to the rail instead of replacing the suppressor if I understood that part correctly? I get this may not be possible if you have other attachments but I feel like it could then work on many other weapons platforms too bringing the production and design cost down.
Its stupid instead of just making a bayonet handle clamp to connect with the railmount hugging the barrel. It is so easy to connect a bayonet in different ways
@@baneofbanes Meanwhile trenchfighting has become common again and storming tiny firing positions and hideouts. Its something that closes a capability gap. And good luck being stuck in a house and running out of ammo
It makes no sense to have a bayonet attached to the muzzle instead of being under the muzzle. When it's under, you can stab and shoot. When it's on the muzzle, you can only stab. We figured that out over 200 years ago, so why have bayonet designs regressed?
@@darkapostle1 laziness. Its not even that hard to make a clamp mounted bayonet. Also cost. Seeing how short the average cannonfodder in ukraine survives, its not even worth putting much money into them. Anything besides a rifle, vest and helmet is waste of money to be honest. You either send someone with 1000 of stuff into death or someone with 10.000 worth of stuff who also just survives a month
Love how it's a free floating barrel,has a bit.of pic rsil where most need it the top,alot of guns go quad pic rails for what when magpull can be used it adds a lot of unnecessary weight,this is my new favorite rifle
some will probs be ordered regardless of their use of effectiveness for ceremonial purposes on parade plus just a cool thing to have if ya get on / want one
Can't they just purchase an Mlok compatible mount for the Bayonets? The handguard looks long enough around that 13.7 barrel that the reach of the blade wouldn't pose an issue.
I imagine either make the suppressor truly quick-change, suppressor strong enough to mount a bayonet, or increase the blade length and mount it on the rail. The first suggestion seems most practicable.
Wouldn’t be surprised if this rifle becomes the standard across the Army, and if it does, I reckon the bayonet would be the standard compared to the suppressor
Nah. The suppressor has way more utility. With the suppressor, the soldier has better awareness of their environment, will attract less attention when firing, and will reduce tinnitus prevalence. Don't got me wrong, I think bayonets are cool, but the suppressor is just plain better.
As I understand this isn't a main battle rifle hence it is being issued to special forcea and Commandos who typically don't use bayonets. Bayonets being a weapon of the Line Infantryman
If this Knight Armament rifle is designated for Brit special forces, bayonet charges are unlikely to be part their combat capability. If it is M4/M16 based as it appears to be, fittings for a bayonet can be retrofitted very simply if the rifle ends up in the hands of the infantry. Still find it strange that Brit MoD opted for an upgrade of the SA80 and did not simply switch to the HK G36 or a similar weapon system such as the well proved Aussie F88A2 (the Aussie modified Steyr AUG). From a retired Aussie Defence manufacturer and former Aussie Amoured Corps crewman.
Look at AK Kalashnikov's and Zastava M70 bayonets They aren't just stab tool if you run out of ammo or gun jams in CQB. It's a utility survival knife, can be used for chopping wood like an axe, can be used for wire cutting etc.
@@randomargument972 you can carry an actual knife you realize that right? Hell an axe may prove more useful than a bayonet. Bayonets aren’t used in modern peer wars. Otherwise we’d see them used in Ukraine, Exocet we don’t. Don’t throw stones in glass houses and all that, as you’re hardly Einstein.
I think the only soldiers that really need a bayonet are MPs, good for checkpoints and guarding POWs, and ceremonial guards. If you scoff at the thought of POWs being intimidated by a bayonet Id like to introduce you to the Swedish-K fitted with a 1894 sword bayonet 😅 The Knights bayonet is a really clever design tho, having it be a muzzle-device is really thinking outside the box.
Bayonets were used by the British Army during trench clearing operations in the Falklands War. Up till then their use in battle was thought to be a thing of the past. To the surprise of the Argentine Army, they still worked.
The thing about a number of people running at you screaming with bayonets fixed is that unless you can shoot every last one before they get to you, then you ARE going to die. Unlike being shot at, where there is a chance of being hit, it's a stone cold inevitability that once they get to you, then you WILL get gutted. That inevitability does a great job of forcing the issue in a way that bullets often can't.
My brother retired from army as Warrant Officer with tours in Korea and several in Vietnam. I asked him once about a bayonet and he told me, If they are close enough to stab they are close enough to shoot. I’m sure he had uses for one but only as a last resort.
A better idea would be a folding bayonette on the handguard, while the handguard is aluminium it'd though and could be reinforced, a folding sks spiker would not be that heavy and could be long enough it could be upnter to the left or right and also removable but would have to be steel same with the mounting but if mounted properly on the aluminium handguard with enough contact points it would be fine, alternatively a mount for the long WW1 style bayonettes could be a good idea but it would be better to design it as a long sharp utility knife with space in the back l, a saw blade on the back and could even have the AKM type wire cutter. The suppressor and it's mount could be modified to have 2 to 4 steel points from the mount along the supressor that connects to a circle at the end with a mount, it would be a good idea to be able to mount it on the supressor in at least 2 opposite directions so no way that it would get in the way of firing. This is not a standard service rifle ( Canadian made or better yet UK made AR15 short stroke piston systems like ones used by H&K, Sig, and on the Taiwanese T91 would be a great idea or based on a modernized version of the AR-18 An adjustable gas block with a very short tappet type piston with the armalite style of rotating bolt would be the best for 5.56 NATO a barrel size of at least "18 for the best performance. Maybe an integrial supressed system would be better and if the barrel is ported then it should be 20ninches or more as in porting for the suppressor should happen only after 18 inches of barrel. 5.56 was designed for 20 inches of rifling so it has enough velocity to wound and has much higher velocities Ty and range than 14.5 inches as the cartridge is very dependant on barrel length unlike say 7.62x39 or 300 blackout where a 12.5 inch barrel Vs a 16.5 Vs 20 Vs 24 does not have such a huge velocity drop. These new weapons can just have the barrel and suppressor / supressor baffles changed to 300 blackout as if you want a short and quiet weapon that would be the best option especialy if you need subsonic. All other parts including mags fit, it's just 5.56 brass that's been necked up to 7.62 supersonic got loads are similar in power to 7.62x39 but have a longer range, subsonic loads it's one of the best calibers apart from 8.6mm and 9x39 All barrels should be cold hammer forged and should be chrome lined especialy if it's for full auto. But for special weapons where accuracy matters more a stainless steel barrel would be better. The new US M5 and it's 6.8mm Sig fury full powered round is crazy expensive as the Casehead is SS and the the rest is brass, it was made to defete AP So ironicaly after 7mm British intermediate round that most nations wanted apart from the US was dropped in favour for the full power 7.62x51 NATO that's fine for MGs and longer range rifles it's why they quickly changed during the Vietnam war to 5.56 If they kept with 7mm NATO British and upgraded it over the years in sure it would be fine. It would be very expensive for other nations in NATO to use the new US 6.8 full powered round I feel that other nations could come up with a great 6.5 to 7mm intermediate round, standard pressure ball ammo for normal engagements but they could just use professionally made steel cases as in ones that are hard at the the bottom of the case and then heat treated in such a way that the shoulder and beyond isnannhealed to be as soft as brass, steelcase ammo has a bad rap but it's fine MG42s can only use steelcase as if the bolt bounced it could contain the pressure and brass could not Also it's lighter, can fit more powder, stronger and cheaper. The Russian stuff may not make such a good deal like brass but I'm sure a work around could be made or snsteel caehead with the rest being polymer but it would not work in h+k roller delayed weapons with fluted chambers. NATO realy needs a new assult rifle cartridge, a new cartridge that can defete body armour then a new or imported pistol cartidge to defete body armour. .338L is a great long range AP cartridge but 50bmg while great for machine guns but even match ammo in rifles don't do so well so a better 12.7 or even bigger caliber designed for accuracy would be a better option. Also I feel a new GPMG cartridge would be a good idea.. After WW2 I feel they should have standard these cartridges for NATO. For pistols and SMGs 9mm but a modified version of 7.62x25 tokarev would be even better. .45acp for supressednl Assult rifles 7mm British Battle rifles, sniper rifles foed and GPMGs that use a modernised version of 8mm Mauser with a shorter case. .50bmg for big mgs Later on something like .338L for long range rifles A rifle cartridge made to defete body armour Same with a pistol cartidge or modify what they have. An assult rifle cartidge made to be quiet/ subsonic ( I'm sure they could just neck up the 7mm British to 8.6 or so.) A PDW cartridge similar to 5.7 but better that can defete body armour Apart from AI very few millitary small arms are made in the UK and in pretty sure all ammo for small arms are imported, the UK should be self sufficient when it comes to these things and should make a new non-bullpup rifle in 5.56 and 7.62 using a short stoke rotating bolt system stanag / AR10 mags. It would not be so hard to set up a production like of AR10 / 15 or AR18 or even a nee style of rifle that has enough velocity and is supressor ready. Standard ar-15 DI rifles when supressed have alot of gass blowback into the users face when firing. Also smmo made in the UK and not just imported componants but all made in the UK At he very least 5.56 7.62 and .50bmg
There are some advantages of having a piggy-back red dot over using the 1x magnification on the scope. You can use a shorter range zero on the red dot and transitioning between two optics is quicker than turning the lever on the scope. Also, the high mounted red dot is gonna be better for use with night vision equipment over an lvpo.
Mod will be possible, for infantry, and as the bayonet is last line defence, or silent departure . Weapon, and has been used to to increase distance of reach over a knife attack, and a winner in terrorising the opposition, watch them run , barbaric perhaps, they don't like it up um, do they Mr Jones.
If a knife of some kind is carried by a soldier anyway it may as well be carried on the rifle with the pointy end pointing forward ! Could the suppressor be made into a sharp point ?
As a non-military viewer, I'd have thought that the silencer and the bayonet would be most useful in the same urban environments. Strange then to have either/or, rather than one or both.
i think they use of a bayonet is not obsolete in theory; for instance, one for overruns another force that really does not want to budge or the trench fighting like you have seen in Ukraine. however, the universal employment of plate careers and chest rigs for kit HAVE made the bayonet obsolete in practice.
I think the problem with a rail mounted bayonet is that they would have to suspend the mount from the rail up to the end of the barrel so that the bayonet still protrudes beyond the barrel in a way that’s still centred along the rifle. However, on usage, that would place more stress on both the mounting and the rail fitting which could cause the bayonet to fall off or even the attachment to snap. If it’s mounted directly over the barrel however, the stress is more evenly distributed while still being accurately centred. More sturdy and reliable.
Also a point to remember is the possibility of using the bayonet adapter designed for the L129 on the rail. Will be weaker than a barrel mount, but its an item than is already being procured and can be easily retrofitted to the L403 with an extra segment of rail OR with slight modification and the mount being switched to MLOK.
@@TheArmourersBench it’s not a mounted bayonet, but basically a rai mounted casting of the front end of an L85s barrel, allowing the standard issue bayonet to be fixed
That`s because none of the latest crop of British troops have ever used a knife before, none of them had the correct ID to buy one from Tesco...and the one`s that do know how to use a knife (and do, regularly) are all foreign imports running around in London and Birmingham and do not qualify or care to join the armed forces...
Interesting. Not sure they are still that relevant in combat these days? But I don't know enough on that subject. Also, and perhaps more interesting, would be how, if at all, the pathway of the bullet is altered by having the blade along one side of the muzzle as all the gas comes blasting out and hits that solid steel wall during the first foot of travel! Would non symmetrical gas exhausting have any noticeable effect on the accuracy of the rounds? Gas venting to the openside would be unrestricted, whilst the bladed side would be critically disturbed and significantly altered, and I should imagine, having some noticeable consequence on the way the rifle performs. It would be interesting to see it in slo mo one day!
There were bayonet charges in 1982 Falklands and at least twice in Iraq after 2003 plus in Afghanistan, each and every time those were Brits. So, while rarely used, bayonet is not completely obsolete.
Bayonets are still used in a crowd control capacity or as a last resort. The psychological effect of a platoon of men screaming for your guts after an hours long engagement can break even the most motivated units. There have been several bayonet charges made in Iraq and Afgan.
With the advent of body armour and chest rigs for magazines (with or without plates) bayonets are becoming less useful. The bayonet is more likely to break, get stuck in the armour/chest rig, not penetrate etc. Also, these days, you are more likely to damage the rifle and at least change the sighting if you use a bayonet. The bayonet does not look to be much use as a utility knife either. So I can't see anyone carrying them, much less using them. In many years in the military, I only ever fitted a bayonet for the parade ground
The thing about Bayonets is that you are going to carry a knife anyway. The cost to have it also attach to your rifle is very very low. The intimidation factor is high, especially with asymmetric situations. A crowd of rioters or prisoners for example.
@@eps200 It is not as in expensive as you might think. Also thinking back, the UK hasn't used bayonets for crowd control in the last 60+ years. And the UK has done a LOT of Asymmetric warfare and riots (Northern Ireland) nor has the UK used them for controlling prisoners in the last 60 odd years.
@@gfys756 Russia is losing the optics war and the actual war😂 Its why Iran is selling to Ukraine as well and why you have no allies helping you besides Chechnya acting as barrier troops...
Maybe you could argue the pistol has replaced the bayonet (like it did the sword) as the close-quarter fighting and backup weapon. It's no longer a weapon for officers and is carried by many front-line troops of all ranks.
Most infantry don't get issued pistols, so they don't act as a replacement. The guys who are receiving these rifles are more likely to carry sidearms but the same can't be said of the main army if they decide to adopt something similar. Modern usage of bayonets is mostly limited to prisoner management and crowd control where you don't really need a suppressor.
Other guy is right. Most infantry don't get pistols, and the likelihood of it ever happening is slim. Service pistols are large, expensive, take up more space on web gear, and require more training vs a bayonet. plus bayonets serve as multi purpose tools where a pistol is only a pistol, and sometimes a hammer, or maybe a paperweight. Theres also something about the psychological effect bayonets have, but I don't think theres ever been a real study on that.
@@Wabaanimkii I never said most infantry get pistols. Pistols have become standard issue for front line troops since the Afghanistan war. You can guarantee that the Rangers and Commandos will be carrying pistols.
@@Aindriuh Unless they've changed their policy in the past few years, there's only one Glock per section, issued to the section commander. That means only 25% of infantry in a rifle section carry sidearms.
Honestly Knights missed a massive opportunity to stick a flipping like 15" pig sticker that stuck PAST the suppressor. Let us bring back the WW1 lancer level bayonet. That way we can stay suppressed and have a reach advantage in a pointy stick competition.
Most armies invented bayonets that don't block your barrel somewhere in 1700...sure there is use to them in house combat when your enemy gets little bit too close and in Ukraine they have old school trench fights.
The bayonet is the main melee weapon and the last resort weapon after running out of bullets in the war where some areas needed bayonet capabilities for close-ranged stealth assaults, fighting in the place where gun shootings are unnecessary, a situation where the guns are running out of ammo but needed a weapon without using the combat knife, and etc...
Yeah I was thinking same, I wonder if they actually have any use for bayonets there. On the other hand if you are on bayonet range enemy would just probably shoot you first. What videos show them doing is use grenades and just autofiring around corners and if they run out of ammo they just surrender. It's worth noting that one bayonet thrust does not likely kill anyone instantly they can keep firing if they have a weapon. Only case I've ever needed bayonet in army was one parade. Otherwise they were ranked as useless and we were told to improvise if it ever came to that. Bayonets are kind of relic from the age where they actually did bayonet charges with bolt action thingys.
I agree with your statement@@jalmarihuitsikko7211 but in Modern Warfare where all wars are mostly Modern ranged fights but they will going to forget or weaken their melee capabilities. A rifle with a bayonet is the successor of the king of the melee weapons the spear in which it is simple to fight with the least amount of training for the soldier needed to train within 3-4 months of melee training. A modern ranged weapon with a bayonet can solve to train low to mid class citizens into an effective fighting force with good level of melee and ranged capabilities to be versatile to fight.
The gaurds aren't getting this and neither is it going to be used for drill. This rifle has been procured for "specialist users". The sa80 replacement is slated to be in by 2030 and no one knows what that will be yet.
The reporting on this being the rifle ‘primarily’ for the ASOB, is a tad misleading. (What seems to be a standard practice in many of these cases unfortunately) An alternative rifle to replace both the C8 & SA80 in Royal Marines service was being researched for some time before this weapon was settled on. In true RM style, the information on the rifle, along with some of the other new kit that is finding it’s way into the Corps now, was shared with the ASOB, and is now heralded as The Rangers new rifle, oh & The marines are getting some too… 🙄 every cloud though… I suppose if this rifle proves itself to be as good as it looks, then maybe it will find its way to the rest of the Army in the future to replace the ‘can’t polish a turf’ SA80. Which I’m sure everyone, (apart from the SASC who are told on pain of death to promote it at all costs) will welcome the vast improvements it will bring.
Thanks for watching guys, I guess let the debate begin on bayonets!
As always accompanying article here - armourersbench.com/2023/10/22/does-the-l403a1-mount-a-bayonet/
@thearmourersbench I believe various companies offer picatinny bayonet mounts, at least one of which is suppressor compatible. How resilient they are to an enraged marine/ para shoving it in one of HM enemies I can’t say
It's not the UK's new Rifle so the question is void from the outset. The Rifle is only 'Available' to a few chosen regiments and SFs.
That does not make it 'The UK's New Rifle.' The SA80A3 remains the UK Service rifle.. No that's not at all impressive but it is however the truth of the matter.
@@GMT439 bet you're fun at parties.
Calling this weapon trash just bc it can't mount a bayonet is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I can't tell people's nationalities from text, but sounds like xenophobes just hating on anything British.
Frankly I would've been more surprised if a bayonet were part of the requirements. Not because they're of limited utility on the modern battlefield, though, but because it's currently intended for issue to special forces, which means the suppressor's going to be on basically all the time which prevents mounting this pattern of bayonet. Were it intended for, or later expanded to, general issue then I fully expect a bayonet to be demanded, because its the British Army and trying to stab the enemy when you could've shelled them is evidently amongst their eldest and most noble traditions.
That's a good point but if it is out into general issue then it should be capable of taking a bayonet because people seem to forget that they have way more uses than thrusting it forward to stab someone. It's a tool like any other
We attached them with even 0.1 chance of using them in Afghanistan 2012, never got to use them, small arms fire was enough and if not assets available were used. So if us light infantry don’t need it to win doubt it was high priority
@@EnSayne987 It's not going to ever be general issue. Brass isn't going to afford buying Knights Armament Company AR platforms for the entire army. To be honest, special forces were already using Colt Canada AR platforms rifles anyway, now they are getting even better AR-platform rifles
We have field shovels/entrenching tools and if it really comes down to it, a fixed-blade knife. The bayonet design that KAC have shown is clearly oriented towards being a combat tool only. The point is a needle, and it's edged on both sides so you're always pointing a knife edge at yourself when cutting. Look at the bayonet that we put on the L85 and you'll see it's much more reasonable as a field knife. This KAC bayonet is not - the blade itself looks like a fairbairne-sykes!
But we're never going to afford kitting our average men and women in uniform with ARs so slick that they're costly even to American civilians. hell, the Americans made the move to the M4 in 1995. They still hadn't got 100% of servicemen off the M16 by 2020.
I'd be surprised if they weren't bayonets while providing practical value are generally issued mostly for the fact that they hold a major scare factor, that gun can now stab you so getting close isn't gonna be the same as trying to punch a gunman without a bayonet and people are less likely to run(we obviously can't ignore the fact that they'll be intimidated by a gun, but it does compound according to US studies in situations where you need to control local populations), they're a major intimidation factor and a contributing factor as to why they've been issued for some time now, though I'm sure they hold less practical and less intimidation value now that they don't make em the good ol 16 inchers which would scare the shit out of most people I say.
The bayonet had been used in just about every single war since its inception. It will continue to be used in every future war. Ammo runs out
When a British serviceman sees a rifle without a bayonet he immediately thinks to himself that weapon isnt pointy enough. Make it more pointy.
Round is not scary, pointy is scary
😂😂😂😅
You have a point there mate.
Genuinely my first question when seeing this new rifle
Overzealous cleaning on the suppressor will soon form a nice pointy bit that carbon sticks to...
It's amazing how far the AR platform has come, from the original M16 to GWOT era M4, the SCAR, HK416 and now the L403A1. Eugene Stoner was a true genius!
The AR platform goes further back than the M16, it’s first production iteration was as the AR10 in 7.62 NATO back in 1956.
Well, the hk416 and especially the SCAR aren’t really ar-15s or ar-10s.
@@dallenhumpherys7911 The 416 is a piston-driven AR-15, and the SCAR is an AR-18-derivative...
@@dallenhumpherys7911 The 416 is just an AR-18 gas system on an AR-15 and the SCAR is a ground-up design with AR-15 controls and an AR-18 gas system. Of the list presented by OP, all can be considered part of the AR platform, however, the SCAR would be the most distant of them.
The L403A1 is a fancy more expensive M4. The HK416 is a far superior design with its gas piston.
Bayonets are needed for extra pointy operations
Aka Shiskabobing operations.
Operation: Make my steak medium.
Pass the A1, and extra butter on my potato.😉😁🤣
"If it's a miracle, color sergeant, it's a short chamber Boxer Remington point two-two-three caliber miracle."
"And a bayonet, sir. With some guts behind it."
SPLENDID, I tip my hat to you.
Great film.
"....Boxer Henry point four-five calibre miracle." But fair play for the Zulu reference 👍
Lance Corporal Jones is relieved to hear this.
"They don't like it up em" :D
The best part of the L85A1 was the bayonet.
I dunno...that left hand "Ninja Chop" as a forward assist was quite a, erm..."Unique" piece of kit...
@@ca9968 And what has that got to do with the bayonet?
the only bit that worked
@@whitewittock THIS ^^^^^^
The bayonet is absolutely gorgeous with that milled out fuller, it almost completely resembles the Spartan Blades V-14 dagger, the most visually stunning dagger I've personally ever seen (straight behind certain variations of the Fairbairn Sykes 1st pattern).
The Brits have gone all out with the procurement of that fine top of the line American combat rifle. Nobody will be able to say a damn thing about the Brit's service weapon now. The accessories are outstanding as well. I am envious ASF haha. Bravo 👏 💯 🪖
Could still be improved by HK somehow though.
Yeah it just shafts American’s who own Knights rifles now that KAC doesn’t care about those customers yet again.
Will they be enfirld produced ?
it's not their service weapon.... the SA80 isn't getting replaced. the description quite literally says ALTERNATIVE weapon system. it's for select units only.
@@cr1tikal_arc Yes I am aware of that, but give it some time, allow the guys issued the KAC to report on its already obvious superiority and other units will begin to receive them as well, Britain can finally dump that abomination of Stoner's AR18.
Bayonets are still useful for dealing with prisoners, crowd/riot control, close assaults, and of course, the event that all other fighting options run out. It turns out that people are less willing to try and jump you physically if you have a pointy knife ready to stick them with. And on top of that, intimidation factor, placebo effect, and tradition. And there may just be a bit of bias on my behalf because the first gun I ever was fascinated with was my Uncle's P14 and its 1907 Sword-type bayonet.
Where does the placebo effect come in???
@@christopherdean1326 Perhaps "placebo" isn't the right word. Say gou have a big fuck off knife on the end of your rifle, and it might not actually ever make a difference. But you feel safer knowing that you do.
@@hairy_putin Ah, I get what you're saying now. Placebo is not really the right word there, perhaps "comfort" or security" would be better. 🙂
Not to mention the utter terror of seeing a mad man charge you with a bayonet. The enemy will run.
this rifle is to be used by S/F so more important things required than a bayonet. Plus they all carry a handgun which can deal with close quarters very easy.
Some people keep referring to the bayonet as "last ditch" but its anything but in British service. Its an intrinsic part of the section battle drill. At this point my stalker will report my comment for the sixth time in a row.😂
The best addition to an L1A1 was the bayonet. What a lovely tool.
Lovely Bull Shit. No one is going to use bayonet in the 21st century.
yup or if you were RGJ it was a sword on your SLR...
@@handsomeman-pm9vy Corporal Sean Jones led a bayonet charge in Afghanistan December 2011.
My first thought would be for wide-scale adoption in the future that they would probably look at a modified version of the L129a1 bayonet adaptor.
I would have thought (if the need arose) a bayonet that could be used with the suppressor would have been more useful. Have a mounting point under the hand guard or something?
Hello and thank you for covering the Baynit😂.
I guess the kukri will remain only with the Gurkhas 😊
Great and appreciate the quick response.
When the shout goes out ..FIX BAYONETS ..you know shits about to happen.😂
In the stock there is a small mirror for putting on mascara, and an eyebrow threading kit.
And a kettle.
I am surprised they designed the bayonet as a blade. I thought the older style where the bayonet was a round steel rod with a diamond-shaped tip was far better. Much less likely to break and could be extracted more easily after use.
Spike bayonets are relatively useless for what bayonets are used for for 95% of the time - as a knife. Rod bayonets are definitely less likely to snap but less generally useful.
USMC: BAYONET!
Department of Defense: NO!
USMC: BAYONET!
Department of Defense: NO!
USMC: BAYONET!
(Continues ad nauseam)
But how do you bayonet charge without a bayonet? 😱
I now need to go find pictures of that particularly interesting barrel profile and the weight reduction cuts 🔍🤔👍
Why not a pointy suppressor with blade fins on the sides?
There is a need for combat infantry to have hand-to-hand combat capability because it isn't always practical to dump an air strike or artillery barrage on the enemy. Sometimes bullets and hand grenades are not useful. Then there is a need for back-up weapons when the weapon malfunctions or is out of ammunition.
Bayonet or something else? One hand-to-hand combat system taken off the table due to cost and social issues is giving every soldier a pistol. Fighting knives are "too savage" for peacetime armies. The modern police telescoping baton is a metal rod used to whack people--I oversimplified that! Having to drop the primary weapon in order to fight with the secondary weapon can be a problem. Speaking of bayonets, even though the bayonet was used extensively in the trenches of the Great War 1914 to 1918 there were a large number of melee weapons introduced: pistols, maces and clubs, brass knuckles, and trench knives, and the ubiquitous infantry spade (entrenching tool) was often pressed into service as a weapon. One melee weapon that vanished from the WW1 battlefield was the sword. The bayonet itself used to be sword length with blades in the 16-inch range. During World War Two bayonets shrunk to half that length--the M4 Bayonet was based on the M3 Trench Knife and had the same seven-inch blade, and ten inches was regarded as enough. The Rifle No 4 spike bayonet was all of ten inches overall, with a "blade" of eight inches.
Hand-to-hand combat still happens in infantry battles. An American Cavalry soldier and an insurgent in Iraq both suffered weapon failures, the insurgent pulled a knife and charged, the American grabbed the Iraqi and threw him out the window to die on impact five floors below. It's hard to carry around a tall building with a paved street at the ground floor as a hand-to-hand combat weapon.
Bayonets are more savage than knives for peace time bayonets were used when the british srmies job was controling colonies
@@demonic_myst4503More savage than throwing someone out the fifth floor window/
@@demonic_myst4503bayonets are definitely more savage but at the same time their use is largely like holding out a spear at arms length. It is also of course attached to a rifle! The extreme intimidation factor and the risk of self impalement scares off target/rowdy members of public. A knife however doesn't have the intimidation at distance power to it, instead it is only usable in close range when it really must be USED in a scrap, in which case the soldier has no real option but to start viciously stabbing away or risk being hurt themselves. This is unacceptable in peace time, and today even in war time you are likely to get people attempting to prosecute. Claiming that the victim was stabbed without being given a chance.
@@demonic_myst4503 depends on your perspective, as the one doing the stabbing i'd say knives are a lot more savage as it takes a certain amount of savagery to stab someone at close range with a knife. Whilst a bayonet is less personal and easier to do without having to go crazy or put yourself at risk of being grappled or such. Plus usually a bayonet is used with a single strike forcing the enemy to the ground whilst a knife doesn't tend to instantly disable the opponent so if they also have a knife the chances of mutual injury is high compared to a bayonet plus tends to require multiple stabs when face to face, that's the kind of thing that stays with you for life.
I feel that stabbing someone with a knife is more "personal" than a bayonet so has more impact on the attacker compared to a bayonet and requires you to be a bit more "crazy" to do without mental impact.
I’m in no way an expert but would it not be easier to develop a bayonet with a quick attachment to the rail instead of replacing the suppressor if I understood that part correctly? I get this may not be possible if you have other attachments but I feel like it could then work on many other weapons platforms too bringing the production and design cost down.
Agreed. This bayonet seems like a case of over-engineering.
A muzzle mounted bayonet is _sooo_ 19th Century, and yet it's a surprisingly effective and novel idea.
A stick is surprisingly effective in the right hands lol
Its stupid instead of just making a bayonet handle clamp to connect with the railmount hugging the barrel. It is so easy to connect a bayonet in different ways
@@baneofbanes
Meanwhile trenchfighting has become common again and storming tiny firing positions and hideouts. Its something that closes a capability gap. And good luck being stuck in a house and running out of ammo
It makes no sense to have a bayonet attached to the muzzle instead of being under the muzzle. When it's under, you can stab and shoot. When it's on the muzzle, you can only stab. We figured that out over 200 years ago, so why have bayonet designs regressed?
@@darkapostle1 laziness. Its not even that hard to make a clamp mounted bayonet. Also cost. Seeing how short the average cannonfodder in ukraine survives, its not even worth putting much money into them. Anything besides a rifle, vest and helmet is waste of money to be honest. You either send someone with 1000 of stuff into death or someone with 10.000 worth of stuff who also just survives a month
Well the sharpshooter comes with a bayonet adapter that fits onto the rail system and presumably it would work just as well with the KS1
Fixing the bayonet is the British infantrymans Red mist just got serious mode switch. It will be a sad day when they are no longer issued
How are you going to take the supressor off to fix the bayonet after rounds have gone through it, that things gonna be hot
Love how it's a free floating barrel,has a bit.of pic rsil where most need it the top,alot of guns go quad pic rails for what when magpull can be used it adds a lot of unnecessary weight,this is my new favorite rifle
Excellent review. The KA KS-1 the new supermodel of the AR's.
Classic A1 moment at 0:41. Magazine has fallen off and he hasn't noticed yet.
Rapiiiid fire , oh shit .
And that's why most people used webbing and not chestrigs....
Expect all viable magazines are in the rifle
I had the same question about the sig spear
some will probs be ordered regardless of their use of effectiveness for ceremonial purposes on parade
plus just a cool thing to have if ya get on / want one
Are the rail mounts roo weak to hold one. Could go for an under barrel longer bayonet.
I’ve reached out to my local reservist centre here which is a REME unit - I’m interested in the Armourer role
Must be close if you can touch them.
Can't they just purchase an Mlok compatible mount for the Bayonets? The handguard looks long enough around that 13.7 barrel that the reach of the blade wouldn't pose an issue.
I wonder if this new rifle will be used on the parade square (and therefore with a bayonet)? Or will the Ranger Regiment still parade with the SA80?
Interesting question!
Both RM and ranger will still parade with the sa80.
Quick release suppressor off and fix bayonet has a lovely rinng to it.
I imagine either make the suppressor truly quick-change, suppressor strong enough to mount a bayonet, or increase the blade length and mount it on the rail. The first suggestion seems most practicable.
Wouldn’t be surprised if this rifle becomes the standard across the Army, and if it does, I reckon the bayonet would be the standard compared to the suppressor
Nah. The suppressor has way more utility. With the suppressor, the soldier has better awareness of their environment, will attract less attention when firing, and will reduce tinnitus prevalence. Don't got me wrong, I think bayonets are cool, but the suppressor is just plain better.
@@unknownhours Well clearly they need to do a bayonet suppressor then
I think it would be pretty easy to make a bayonet with a ring that fits over the suppressor and a lug that can be attached to the MLOCK.
Bayonets are always a back up and a stealth weapon. Ask anyone who served in the Falklands in the early eighties.
Bayonets to go the way of the landline phone?
maybe im not noticing something but why wouldn't you attach a bayonet to the picatinny rail on the bottom of the handguard
As I understand this isn't a main battle rifle hence it is being issued to special forcea and Commandos who typically don't use bayonets. Bayonets being a weapon of the Line Infantryman
If this Knight Armament rifle is designated for Brit special forces, bayonet charges are unlikely to be part their combat capability. If it is M4/M16 based as it appears to be, fittings for a bayonet can be retrofitted very simply if the rifle ends up in the hands of the infantry. Still find it strange that Brit MoD opted for an upgrade of the SA80 and did not simply switch to the HK G36 or a similar weapon system such as the well proved Aussie F88A2 (the Aussie modified Steyr AUG). From a retired Aussie Defence manufacturer and former Aussie Amoured Corps crewman.
Great small arms video!!
Like how someone thought about a parade version of the bayonet as well. Cheers
Great video. I run a Geissele Super stabby bayonet picatinny mounted. Great mount but a bit pricey.
All of my AR's have one of these if they don't have a regular gas block mount. Great product even if it is on the expensive side.
They do lend tone to any Colour Trooping.
Look at AK Kalashnikov's and Zastava M70 bayonets
They aren't just stab tool if you run out of ammo or gun jams in CQB. It's a utility survival knife, can be used for chopping wood like an axe, can be used for wire cutting etc.
Actual utility tools are better.
@@baneofbanes
Carrying axe with yourself as a soldier? Great idea.
@@randomargument972 you can carry an actual knife you realize that right?
Hell an axe may prove more useful than a bayonet. Bayonets aren’t used in modern peer wars. Otherwise we’d see them used in Ukraine, Exocet we don’t.
Don’t throw stones in glass houses and all that, as you’re hardly Einstein.
@@baneofbanesà bayonet is way lighter than the actual tools.
Try carrying them around yourself for kilometers.
The chrome one being for drill/ceremonies purposes?
The end of the suppressor looks like a Fleshlight lol
More disturbing than a lack of bayonet is that the Knights logo has a frog flower in it.
Dieu est mon droit.
I think the only soldiers that really need a bayonet are MPs, good for checkpoints and guarding POWs, and ceremonial guards.
If you scoff at the thought of POWs being intimidated by a bayonet Id like to introduce you to the Swedish-K fitted with a 1894 sword bayonet 😅
The Knights bayonet is a really clever design tho, having it be a muzzle-device is really thinking outside the box.
Bayonets were used by the British Army during trench clearing operations in the Falklands War. Up till then their use in battle was thought to be a thing of the past. To the surprise of the Argentine Army, they still worked.
@@georgegebbie8431they were used all through Operations Herrick and Telic (Iraq and Afghanistan).
The thing about a number of people running at you screaming with bayonets fixed is that unless you can shoot every last one before they get to you, then you ARE going to die. Unlike being shot at, where there is a chance of being hit, it's a stone cold inevitability that once they get to you, then you WILL get gutted.
That inevitability does a great job of forcing the issue in a way that bullets often can't.
Infantry were using them in Iraq and Afghanistan
Well that's taken us back 300 years. It can't be fired with bayonet attached by the look of it?
It can be fired with the Bayonet fixed. The suppressor just has to be removed first.
My brother retired from army as Warrant Officer with tours in Korea and several in Vietnam. I asked him once about a bayonet and he told me, If they are close enough to stab they are close enough to shoot. I’m sure he had uses for one but only as a last resort.
That's why. It is a last resort. They were used in Afghan. Not often. But they were used. People don't like pointy things being poked at them 😂
They are a weapon of fear more than anything
i note that whilst blood gutters are frowned upon, a groove to allow unfettered bullet travel seems to have found its way into the design
A better idea would be a folding bayonette on the handguard, while the handguard is aluminium it'd though and could be reinforced, a folding sks spiker would not be that heavy and could be long enough it could be upnter to the left or right and also removable but would have to be steel same with the mounting but if mounted properly on the aluminium handguard with enough contact points it would be fine, alternatively a mount for the long WW1 style bayonettes could be a good idea but it would be better to design it as a long sharp utility knife with space in the back l, a saw blade on the back and could even have the AKM type wire cutter.
The suppressor and it's mount could be modified to have 2 to 4 steel points from the mount along the supressor that connects to a circle at the end with a mount, it would be a good idea to be able to mount it on the supressor in at least 2 opposite directions so no way that it would get in the way of firing.
This is not a standard service rifle ( Canadian made or better yet UK made AR15 short stroke piston systems like ones used by H&K, Sig, and on the Taiwanese T91 would be a great idea or based on a modernized version of the AR-18
An adjustable gas block with a very short tappet type piston with the armalite style of rotating bolt would be the best for 5.56 NATO a barrel size of at least "18 for the best performance.
Maybe an integrial supressed system would be better and if the barrel is ported then it should be 20ninches or more as in porting for the suppressor should happen only after 18 inches of barrel.
5.56 was designed for 20 inches of rifling so it has enough velocity to wound and has much higher velocities Ty and range than 14.5 inches as the cartridge is very dependant on barrel length unlike say 7.62x39 or 300 blackout where a 12.5 inch barrel Vs a 16.5 Vs 20 Vs 24 does not have such a huge velocity drop.
These new weapons can just have the barrel and suppressor / supressor baffles changed to 300 blackout as if you want a short and quiet weapon that would be the best option especialy if you need subsonic.
All other parts including mags fit, it's just 5.56 brass that's been necked up to 7.62 supersonic got loads are similar in power to 7.62x39 but have a longer range, subsonic loads it's one of the best calibers apart from 8.6mm and 9x39
All barrels should be cold hammer forged and should be chrome lined especialy if it's for full auto.
But for special weapons where accuracy matters more a stainless steel barrel would be better.
The new US M5 and it's 6.8mm Sig fury full powered round is crazy expensive as the Casehead is SS and the the rest is brass, it was made to defete AP
So ironicaly after 7mm British intermediate round that most nations wanted apart from the US was dropped in favour for the full power 7.62x51 NATO that's fine for MGs and longer range rifles it's why they quickly changed during the Vietnam war to 5.56
If they kept with 7mm NATO British and upgraded it over the years in sure it would be fine.
It would be very expensive for other nations in NATO to use the new US 6.8 full powered round
I feel that other nations could come up with a great 6.5 to 7mm intermediate round, standard pressure ball ammo for normal engagements but they could just use professionally made steel cases as in ones that are hard at the the bottom of the case and then heat treated in such a way that the shoulder and beyond isnannhealed to be as soft as brass, steelcase ammo has a bad rap but it's fine MG42s can only use steelcase as if the bolt bounced it could contain the pressure and brass could not
Also it's lighter, can fit more powder, stronger and cheaper. The Russian stuff may not make such a good deal like brass but I'm sure a work around could be made or snsteel caehead with the rest being polymer but it would not work in h+k roller delayed weapons with fluted chambers.
NATO realy needs a new assult rifle cartridge, a new cartridge that can defete body armour then a new or imported pistol cartidge to defete body armour.
.338L is a great long range AP cartridge but 50bmg while great for machine guns but even match ammo in rifles don't do so well so a better 12.7 or even bigger caliber designed for accuracy would be a better option.
Also I feel a new GPMG cartridge would be a good idea..
After WW2 I feel they should have standard these cartridges for NATO.
For pistols and SMGs 9mm but a modified version of 7.62x25 tokarev would be even better. .45acp for supressednl
Assult rifles 7mm British
Battle rifles, sniper rifles foed and GPMGs that use a modernised version of 8mm Mauser with a shorter case.
.50bmg for big mgs
Later on something like .338L for long range rifles
A rifle cartridge made to defete body armour
Same with a pistol cartidge or modify what they have.
An assult rifle cartidge made to be quiet/ subsonic ( I'm sure they could just neck up the 7mm British to 8.6 or so.)
A PDW cartridge similar to 5.7 but better that can defete body armour
Apart from AI very few millitary small arms are made in the UK and in pretty sure all ammo for small arms are imported, the UK should be self sufficient when it comes to these things and should make a new non-bullpup rifle in 5.56 and 7.62 using a short stoke rotating bolt system stanag / AR10 mags.
It would not be so hard to set up a production like of AR10 / 15 or AR18 or even a nee style of rifle that has enough velocity and is supressor ready.
Standard ar-15 DI rifles when supressed have alot of gass blowback into the users face when firing.
Also smmo made in the UK and not just imported componants but all made in the UK
At he very least 5.56 7.62 and .50bmg
What is the point of an lvpo if youre gonna slap a red dot on there anyways? They couldve gone with a cheaper fixed magnification optic instead.
There are some advantages of having a piggy-back red dot over using the 1x magnification on the scope. You can use a shorter range zero on the red dot and transitioning between two optics is quicker than turning the lever on the scope. Also, the high mounted red dot is gonna be better for use with night vision equipment over an lvpo.
Mod will be possible, for infantry, and as the bayonet is last line defence, or silent departure .
Weapon, and has been used to to increase distance of reach over a knife attack, and a winner in terrorising the opposition, watch them run , barbaric perhaps, they don't like it up um, do they Mr Jones.
If a knife of some kind is carried by a soldier anyway it may as well be carried on the rifle with the pointy end pointing forward ! Could the suppressor be made into a sharp point ?
My dad was at the dsi event
I had planned to be but couldn't make it down
As a non-military viewer, I'd have thought that the silencer and the bayonet would be most useful in the same urban environments.
Strange then to have either/or, rather than one or both.
>country gets ”new weapon”
>look inside
>another m4
>🗿
The question is how hot can that thing get before it bends
Maybe they're forward planning with the hope the rifle will completely replace the l85 in the future
Perhaps bayonet option only available and nessesary to ceremonial rifle like Kings Guard Regiment and other event
i think they use of a bayonet is not obsolete in theory; for instance, one for overruns another force that really does not want to budge or the trench fighting like you have seen in Ukraine.
however, the universal employment of plate careers and chest rigs for kit HAVE made the bayonet obsolete in practice.
I always thought new bayonets would attach by rails and not by the barrel.
I think the problem with a rail mounted bayonet is that they would have to suspend the mount from the rail up to the end of the barrel so that the bayonet still protrudes beyond the barrel in a way that’s still centred along the rifle. However, on usage, that would place more stress on both the mounting and the rail fitting which could cause the bayonet to fall off or even the attachment to snap.
If it’s mounted directly over the barrel however, the stress is more evenly distributed while still being accurately centred. More sturdy and reliable.
Also a point to remember is the possibility of using the bayonet adapter designed for the L129 on the rail. Will be weaker than a barrel mount, but its an item than is already being procured and can be easily retrofitted to the L403 with an extra segment of rail OR with slight modification and the mount being switched to MLOK.
I've never heard of a rail mounted bayonet being procured for the Sharpshooter
@@TheArmourersBench think it’s part of the CES for it as far as I remember
@@TheArmourersBench it’s not a mounted bayonet, but basically a rai mounted casting of the front end of an L85s barrel, allowing the standard issue bayonet to be fixed
Oh yeah, just found it. ISTEC bayonet adapter. What a funky idea.
@@TheArmourersBench yeah, never seen it used, but they’re out there.
Finally out the SA80 and in with some new guns we needed something like the US M4A1 for a long time
Wrong. The sa80 will still be used for the majority of uk military
Maybe developed in anticipation for a bayonet requirement for the Sa80 replacement
I would suspect so. Probably in the hope the Project Hunter rifle gets generally adopted through Grayburn. We'll see on that, I suspect it won't.
interestint that a Bayonette is still so hotly debated
That`s because none of the latest crop of British troops have ever used a knife before, none of them had the correct ID to buy one from Tesco...and the one`s that do know how to use a knife (and do, regularly) are all foreign imports running around in London and Birmingham and do not qualify or care to join the armed forces...
😂 Can't argue with these points... (Pun unintended, but it works I guess) 🤣👍
You get training in the army for 101 things you have no access to in civi street.
Looking at the visuals it seems that its the flash-hider or bayonet.. not both at the same time? Eh??
Interesting. Not sure they are still that relevant in combat these days? But I don't know enough on that subject. Also, and perhaps more interesting,
would be how, if at all, the pathway of the bullet is altered by having the blade along one side of the muzzle as all the gas comes blasting out and hits that solid steel wall during the first foot of travel! Would non symmetrical gas exhausting have any noticeable effect on the accuracy of the rounds? Gas venting to the openside would be unrestricted, whilst the bladed side would be critically disturbed and significantly
altered, and I should imagine, having some noticeable consequence on the way the rifle performs. It would be interesting to see it in slo mo one day!
There were bayonet charges in 1982 Falklands and at least twice in Iraq after 2003 plus in Afghanistan, each and every time those were Brits. So, while rarely used, bayonet is not completely obsolete.
Bayonets are still used in a crowd control capacity or as a last resort. The psychological effect of a platoon of men screaming for your guts after an hours long engagement can break even the most motivated units. There have been several bayonet charges made in Iraq and Afgan.
With the advent of body armour and chest rigs for magazines (with or without plates) bayonets are becoming less useful. The bayonet is more likely to break, get stuck in the armour/chest rig, not penetrate etc. Also, these days, you are more likely to damage the rifle and at least change the sighting if you use a bayonet. The bayonet does not look to be much use as a utility knife either. So I can't see anyone carrying them, much less using them. In many years in the military, I only ever fitted a bayonet for the parade ground
The thing about Bayonets is that you are going to carry a knife anyway. The cost to have it also attach to your rifle is very very low.
The intimidation factor is high, especially with asymmetric situations. A crowd of rioters or prisoners for example.
@@eps200 It is not as in expensive as you might think. Also thinking back, the UK hasn't used bayonets for crowd control in the last 60+ years. And the UK has done a LOT of Asymmetric warfare and riots (Northern Ireland) nor has the UK used them for controlling prisoners in the last 60 odd years.
@@eps200 I don't think they would EVER use bayonets for crowd control in britain ever again.
The optics of that would be a PR nightmare...
@@LoveHammerManPrecisely why the Western world will lose the next global conflict. Too worried about "optics" and "PR nightmares".
@@gfys756 Russia is losing the optics war and the actual war😂
Its why Iran is selling to Ukraine as well and why you have no allies helping you besides Chechnya acting as barrier troops...
It needs a handle grip at the front.
Maybe you could argue the pistol has replaced the bayonet (like it did the sword) as the close-quarter fighting and backup weapon.
It's no longer a weapon for officers and is carried by many front-line troops of all ranks.
Most infantry don't get issued pistols, so they don't act as a replacement. The guys who are receiving these rifles are more likely to carry sidearms but the same can't be said of the main army if they decide to adopt something similar. Modern usage of bayonets is mostly limited to prisoner management and crowd control where you don't really need a suppressor.
Other guy is right. Most infantry don't get pistols, and the likelihood of it ever happening is slim. Service pistols are large, expensive, take up more space on web gear, and require more training vs a bayonet. plus bayonets serve as multi purpose tools where a pistol is only a pistol, and sometimes a hammer, or maybe a paperweight.
Theres also something about the psychological effect bayonets have, but I don't think theres ever been a real study on that.
@@Wabaanimkii I never said most infantry get pistols.
Pistols have become standard issue for front line troops since the Afghanistan war.
You can guarantee that the Rangers and Commandos will be carrying pistols.
That is incorrect. All infantry troops in the British Army are now issued the Glock 17.@@colbunkmust
@@Aindriuh Unless they've changed their policy in the past few years, there's only one Glock per section, issued to the section commander. That means only 25% of infantry in a rifle section carry sidearms.
As the US special forces found out, a ax/war hawk/tomahawk is far better for close quarters combat. And it DEMANDS respect.
British Paras were bayonetting the Taliban in the mid 2000s, they're still used.
Honestly Knights missed a massive opportunity to stick a flipping like 15" pig sticker that stuck PAST the suppressor. Let us bring back the WW1 lancer level bayonet. That way we can stay suppressed and have a reach advantage in a pointy stick competition.
It would have to be the same size as the l85a3 bayonet otherwise you would need 2 types if bayonet frog in the army
@@scottiramage317 Look, if it comes to pointy stick technology, they can make a second frog.
No Bayonet ! How will you know if your enemy has guts or not
Tp quote Cpl Jones from 'Dad's Army'.... "They don't like it up em!".... Surely UK is not going to put the bayonet to bed!!? 😢
Geissele makes the super stabby bayonet mount that attaches to M-LOK and let's you mount an M16 bayonet. It's also $150...
As a Royal Green Jacket we carried SWORDS.
I thought we called suppressors disruptors?
Bayonets are still used in training for developing controlled aggression, and have been used in battle as recently as Afghanistan.
Chromed - planning for fifty years time when it’s a ceremonial rifle. 😂
That looks expensive.I wonder how much you’ll get billed when you fire it of the end of your bondook?
What makes the grass grow then?
That's why you need a Shovel and a Bowie preferably a Black Bowie
Most armies invented bayonets that don't block your barrel somewhere in 1700...sure there is use to them in house combat when your enemy gets little bit too close and in Ukraine they have old school trench fights.
This bayonet doesn't block the barrel, it's a socket bayonet.
The bayonet is the main melee weapon and the last resort weapon after running out of bullets in the war where some areas needed bayonet capabilities for close-ranged stealth assaults, fighting in the place where gun shootings are unnecessary, a situation where the guns are running out of ammo but needed a weapon without using the combat knife, and etc...
Yeah I was thinking same, I wonder if they actually have any use for bayonets there. On the other hand if you are on bayonet range enemy would just probably shoot you first. What videos show them doing is use grenades and just autofiring around corners and if they run out of ammo they just surrender. It's worth noting that one bayonet thrust does not likely kill anyone instantly they can keep firing if they have a weapon. Only case I've ever needed bayonet in army was one parade. Otherwise they were ranked as useless and we were told to improvise if it ever came to that. Bayonets are kind of relic from the age where they actually did bayonet charges with bolt action thingys.
I agree with your statement@@jalmarihuitsikko7211 but in Modern Warfare where all wars are mostly Modern ranged fights but they will going to forget or weaken their melee capabilities. A rifle with a bayonet is the successor of the king of the melee weapons the spear in which it is simple to fight with the least amount of training for the soldier needed to train within 3-4 months of melee training.
A modern ranged weapon with a bayonet can solve to train low to mid class citizens into an effective fighting force with good level of melee and ranged capabilities to be versatile to fight.
Why not use a combat knife, E-tool, or axe?
Why not use a combat knife, E-tool, or axe?
@@hailexiao2770 the better replacement, the entrenching tool (x
If they have no bayonet, how will they get the grass to grow?
Errrr? never heard of steel clamps ... :)
You can't have a rifle without a bayonet for goodness sake. Good lord whatever next.
It will be issued as soon as the guards units get the rifles.
The new rifle will also be easier for drill, the SA80 drill always had some weird parts.
The gaurds aren't getting this and neither is it going to be used for drill. This rifle has been procured for "specialist users". The sa80 replacement is slated to be in by 2030 and no one knows what that will be yet.
The reporting on this being the rifle ‘primarily’ for the ASOB, is a tad misleading. (What seems to be a standard practice in many of these cases unfortunately)
An alternative rifle to replace both the C8 & SA80 in Royal Marines service was being researched for some time before this weapon was settled on.
In true RM style, the information on the rifle, along with some of the other new kit that is finding it’s way into the Corps now, was shared with the ASOB, and is now heralded as The Rangers new rifle, oh & The marines are getting some too… 🙄 every cloud though… I suppose if this rifle proves itself to be as good as it looks, then maybe it will find its way to the rest of the Army in the future to replace the ‘can’t polish a turf’ SA80.
Which I’m sure everyone, (apart from the SASC who are told on pain of death to promote it at all costs) will welcome the vast improvements it will bring.
Bayonets are essential. But so are knives and duct tape so i think we can probably McGuiver something if we need to!