Looks like I had a bit of "duff gen" on the reversion to HK steel mags - the EMAGs were to be replaced but if it was by HK steel mags that was only temporary. L85A3 and A2 should now be fed from M3 PMAGs, at least in infantry use.
The EMAG is also discontinued. The EMAG was only made because the current generation of PMAGs at the time would not fit and feed in HK416’s or L85’s. New generation PMAG’s (gen 4) can, and are slowly being introduced into Std issue
Unless the people down range change, then the bullet probably won't and if the bullet doesn't why not keep the familiar rifle? With refinements. I'm holding out for floating mind controlled knives.
No experience of SA80. But firing the SLR from the left shoulder would make me vomit on the ranges with swallowing cordite. I couldn't hit anything with the right eye and right shoulder.
Back in 1976, before the SA-80 was in service I was fortunate to handle the prototype/pre-production version of the SA-80. This was the SECOND Bull Pup design, the first from Enfield was a competitor to the Belgium FN/SLR and was 458 or 485 calibre. The Royal Small Arms School told us that about 15% - 20% of the SA-80 would be Left Handed versions, the exact proportion was awaiting feedback. I believe they commented that the Royal Marines had requested the greatest proportion of Left Hand weapons. The Left Hand version was ESSENTIAL because of the potential harm of using the weapon and the "potential" for losing an eye, their words not mine. This was a contradictory statement since the concern was also about street fighting, close quarters combat, where using the weapon one would need to be able to use the weapon both Left and Right handed. It appears that THE DESIGN was the FLAW not having a Left and Right Handed version OR JUST COST?
@@RoyalArmouriesMuseum if you were some tree hugger plugging your sparkling water on yt I'll wager you wouldn't get a strike for some harmless background music. 🧐
22:02 The lack of a flip up cover to clean the gas parts is a massive ball ache. The infantry lads always developed drills that might not be in the manual. Carrying a paint brush for cleaning crap and dust off was one. The other was cleaning the gas parts as soon as you safely and reasonably could after a contact. For all the L85's faults the ability to pop the gas parts out with the rifle in one piece for a quick ream out was a good feature.
@@ar568 Are you not aware how carbon fouling works? Even as a cadet we had issues when you put a lot of rounds through where the gas system would become extremely clogged, stopping it working properly. It also became an absolute PITA to clean.
Great video as always. As an MOD armourer that takes a real passion to this system, and plays with it every day, this was very informative. I really appreciate the clarification on the "A2/3" body marks, as that throws a lot of people off. Here's some extra points that are worth noting: As a few have said, the SUSAT is far from gone, it still very much outnumbers the LDS, and is seen by many as the more easy to use system. The internals are not the same as the A2. While they are rated to be able to use A2 components, the Bolt and BCA get marked up with the serial of the weapon (as does the Barrel) in order to show that they are tested to A3 standards. If they do not match up, then they are likely A2 components fitted, though this practice (marking up the bolt and Bca) is being phased out now. The BUTT is different! Not a huge thing, but the butt screws used on the A2 are flatheads, while the A3 has hex screws. No living human knows why. The HAND-GUARD that you have is, interestingly, the post-mod version, as you stated. But the biggest change is not so much the shape of the holes, but the guards fitted near the safety. If you compare the older designs, the safety-bar is unprotected as can get caught in webbing, only to snap. The newer version has those two "buffers" either side that aid in things not getting caught up. Now here's your challenge if you want a real SA80 collection: L85A2/3 (IW) L22A2 (Carbine) L86A2 (LSW) L98A2 (General Purpose) L402A1 (SA80 in .22) L103A2 (Drill Purpose) L116A1 (Inert) L126A1 (Parade Purpose)
My best guess is that the flat screws in the butt have been changed to stop people being able to disassemble the butt plate. The flat heads could be done with the combination tool. Hex would try to stop troops removing the plates themselves.
@@martynsouthgate1551I’m going with hex that Techs can then use Hex spammers and dare I say Impact Tools for an early knock off. Also easier to torque. It’s why everything else in life is Hex or Torx.
I'd like to add a caveat/correction to the part about the quad rail and brown coating. It may well be standard for the army but not for other services, at least not in practice. In the various RAF armouries I've been in, there's still plenty of black coating, green handguard L85A2s sitting around. People going out on ops or guard duties are getting the "TES" fit (as it used to be known), quad rail and SUSAT but even these are still black not brown. Only the regiment so far have the new A3. And there's still plenty of polymer mags floating around.
I've still got scars on my hands from the A2 'cheesegrater' handguard. Using it with bayonet used to rip your hands to shreds if you weren't wearing gloves.
@lewisallan9963 always remember going on tabs with no gloves always made a better tab. Went through bayonet with no gloves aswell but didn't get any scars
Hi Jonathan, I can confirm Magpul E-Mag is still the standard in service magazine, some Gen 3 P-Mags are now also in service. However if a unit has a substantial stock of HK mags, they generally won't replace them unless there is a significant need
I used the A1 in training and at most of my units but was issued an A2 when I was attached to 1PWRR for Iraq. The A1 was an accurate rifle but dear god...everything else about it. The A2 was a godsend by comparison, never got to see the A3 as I was out by 05. Oddly enough the A2's we had all had the original hand guard, and were not fitted with rails, but some were fitted for the UGL.
Great video as usual. However something that REALLY needs mentioning about the A3, is that the front grip is no longer supported by the barrel. Effectively allowing the barrel to float. If you fit a collimator to an A2 and put any force on the grip you will see deflection. The UOR bipod for the A2 ruined its accuracy because of this. The A3, like the A2 is an incredible system.
Yeah I thought it was odd he didn't mention that since that is the main reason to change the front grip in the way they did. Or so a HK staff member told me when showing me around it.
@@Darwinist They could probably sell it as a pixel art "lego" with a selection of iconic firearms in the museum. It'd be a cool little souvenir to stick on a shelf :)
I am going to throw this out there I used the A1 and A2 and NEVER had serious problem with it, lots of people try to jump on the band wagon saying its a pile of shite. Yes initially some teething problems with the A1 the magazine release catch but apart from that it was a reliable weapon. Only had one stoppage using the LSW and adjusted the gas plug to excessive and continued firing no problems. That said I actually cleaned my rifle so it done what it said on the tin. Yes loved the SLR but different strokes for different folks. If the end of the world came what weapon would I choose to roll with to survive . . . . .AK47 ;) lol
the SA80 family were exceptional weapons, for a weapons designed by a bunch of Engineers with little to no knowledge of Firearms and had to learn from scratch.
The A1 was awful. Cocking shaped in such a way that it threw empty cases back into the working parts, TMH had the ability to not fit to the upper properly affecting zero and worst of all the firing pin would always break. It was made and designed by people that do don’t know what they was doing. Gladly fixed with the A2.
As I’m local to Fort Nelson I’ve been there many times, but went this weekend for the DDay 80 display, and I have to say it did not disappoint. It’s the only time I’ve been in a museum and when the videos play, everyone stopped to watch them both. It’s well worth a visit, but the silhouette’s were quite special
To the best of my knowledge not true regards Cerokote on L85A2. There were for a time instructions in the AESP for the local temporary application of Coyote Brown spray paint. Those instructions were removed several years ago. I've certainly never encountered a Cerokoted A2 at any unit I've carried out an inspection at. Also the SUSAT is very much far from gone. All second line and reserve units now have SUSAT as a bare minimum. Infantry reserve units do have Elcan LDS.
@@CornishMoose strictly speaking all A2s should be black, the instruction was to return them to black when the paint instructions were removed from that AESP. Obviously that never happened in many cases and I often see painted A2s & SUSATs all looking pretty ratty by now too.
As a CWO with the air cadets I got to handle the original SA-80 that was sent to RAF Uxbridge. It was still in its polystyrene case with various accessories. It was only with them as a trial. After the Falkands was they got several ex Argentinian weapons.
he missed the whole point of the new hand guard. It’s not bolted on the dove / gas block so you don’t flex the barrel pulling on the down grip which is issued. Now the barrel is only mounted at its rear. This “floating barrel” alone has given around a 17 point increase to an average soldiers annual combat marksman test score I found in testing. A huge improvement in accuracy. It’s raised standards across the board. We use this now regularly at 600m with good results. We are wiping the floor in competitions internationally with this rifle. At bisley last year the top 3 teams had A3. There was a large gap between teams with A2.
Well, to be honest, soldiers on the field _will_ be using tactical gloves most of times, so it's not like a quad-rail cheese grater is a big problem under _that_ point of view. Fact is, quad-rail handguards are substantially heavier. And nowadays, ounces are pounds.
After training on the A1 but going to Iraq with the A2, I honestly had no reason to dislike the A2. It felt reliable, accurate and always loved the compact feeling of a bullpup, and the A3 looks awesome.
We got issued with the Original SA80 rifle, I thought it was a good weapon accurate, the magazines were a bit naff, we also complained about the magazine release, as we had some incidents of soldiers doing soildery things of jumping and rolling around and magazines falling off! so they did listen and put a release catch guard on, good video, you should do a book mate.
I only ever carried the A1, after 6 years of carrying the SLR, there were a lot of 'modifications' I seem to remember that used to come down on microfiche to unit armourers at the time, now am showing my age..
The A1 had a *lot* of in services mods to try and correct it's deficiencies. For instance the magazine catch guard; loads of people think it was an A2 mod but it was one of the first major mods to be released. I even think the very last A1s ex-Nottingham had them from the factory.
Jonathan Ferguson........... you are a LEGEND mate and probably have one of the best jobs in the world, and its one that I would chew my own foot off to have. Thank you for your amazing work mate, I appreciate everything you do on this channel. 🇬🇧✌️
I recently ordered Jonathan's book on bullpups from Headstamp (the signed version, of course). I haven't received it yet, but I'm looking forward to it. I also took the opportunity to get the facsimile of the EM2 manual, because why not?
I started out my training with the 7.62mm SLR and converted to the SA80 during training. The old crusties will harp on about the SLR for stopping power and reliability yet most never fired it in combat or the few that did would have been NI & the Falklands. Times change and so does the need to adapt. The modern Infantry soldier carry more weight than their predessors in terms of additional kit,body armour, etc. They also need to realise that the modern battlefield is more mobile so its about compatibility and fighting close quarters and a lot of snap shooting. As for stopping power and reliability. 99.9% is down to the individuals responsibility of maintaining his weapon and honing his shooting skills. I was achieving first round kills around the 400m mark in Iraq in 2004 will very little reliability issues. You only have to look at the videos coming out of Ukraine to notice to absence of long-barrelled weapons in trenches and AFVs to see those days are gone. If the British infantry need more suppressing firepower there's a Turret and their fire support group or sharpshooter rifles.
As a serving soldier in the army reserve, I'm still waiting to get my hands on the A3. We're still using the A2, with the SUSAT, and Daniel Defence handguard
Some L98A2s have been fitted with the A3 body… that means that the old A1/A2 sub calibre adapter cannot be safely fitted to the weapon… so the sub calibre kit has been withdrawn…
I'm very pleased that the SA-80 has turned into the weapon that it is today, it is now a very reliable( as long as you keep it clean) and very accurate rifle. As I joined the Army over 30 years ago, we had the original pretty poor SA-80A1......... which was very frustrating and I actually wanted to go back to the phenomenal L1-A1 SLR, which was an absolute beast!!!!🇬🇧✌️
I was going to say, you should do the L98A2, though difficult if you don't have one. You could always travel to a cadet centre for an "on-location" video! You could do a side by side with the L103A2 for fun.
I like the new A3 hand guard a lot lot more. Always liked bullpups, but was previously never a fan of the any of the SA80 systems. The new front hand guard looks similar to the silhouette of the MDR, which is my favourite rifle.
Absolutely gorgeous rifles. I prefer the looks of the A2 but man the colors on the new A3s are fantastic. Thanks for the video. Hopefully one day they'll sell these to us Americans so I can own one
Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, unless they disagree with my opinion of course Idk I think they look cool. I'm not the only one. My little airsoft L22A2 gets compliments every time I bring it to the field with me. It's a break from the boring ass AR15 that everybody else likes to dote over all day long
First time I’ve seen that hand guard. Had to do a double take when you had that close up and the rail seemed to move quite easily. Glad to know you just had it loosened up.
i miss my LSW . carried it for 5 years while in germany and on 2 tours of iraq . heavy but a solid platform and i found mines to be a tackdriver and distance .
Everyone gives this rifle stick but I loved it in basic training. 20 inch barrel with an overall length comparable to something with a much shorter barrel if it wasn’t bullpup. The mag is right in the armpit so the bulk of the weight is far back making it snappy and smashed every single target at 400m, 300m and 200m dropped a couple on the closer ones as I got giddy I might get HPS (highest possible score) on the whole damn thing. Still hit I think 58 of 62 and found the bullpup nice to reload in prone as you can keep your elbows almost in plank position rather than having to reach forward passes the trigger mechanism. A well cleaned barrel and gas parts and the stoppages weren’t bad, handle for nice chopping forward assist. I’ve shot a fair few rifles, lmgs, pistols and shotguns and maybe it’s because we lived with that one. But I found it to be a damn good weapon system that is often misunderstood. My two cents
It’s an adequate weapon overall, but for a COD player joining the cadets it was definitely a massive let down initially. Balance, weight, awkwardness particularly to reload, whereas would have loved to be able to learn on an M4 (30% lighter) variant. The LA85 gives less badass points, so understandable that the SAS don’t use them.
Got to mess with one of these when we did some cross-unit training with 3 Para here in the states when they came to visit. Pretty neat rifle, always had a sweet spot for bullpups.
Mr? Mr? How dare you sir. You should address him by his proper title at all times which is Jonathan Ferguson the Keeper of Firearms and Artillery at the Royal Armouries Museum in the UK, which Houses a Collection of Thousands of Iconic Weapons from throughout History. In a rush, you may abbreviate to JFTKOFAAATRAMITUKWHACOTOIWFTH.
Always loved the various models Of the SA80. Never had an issue with the rifle once. Gets too much bad Rep from people who have never fired it. Great weapon system.
13:30 Thank you for answering a question which came up last weekend: one of my cadre's A2s had the extended rail and newer-style welds around the trunnion (but still saying A2 on the markings), which caused some confusion.
I'm not sure about what you mean by that. Is it a simple case of saying to that irritating pesky neighbour of yours, out of pressured politeness, that you would "love" to have them over for tea, all the while praying and hoping they would just decline your coerced invitation?
Since you mentioned the L98 cadet rifle, I thought I'd mention that when I was a cadet, there were 2 "types". One was normal and the other had concrete in the barrel which was sometimes used for drill. It also had some different colours, like red on the bolt assembly. I'm sure you are aware, but I thought I'd mention it.
No, please bore me with the A2 specific polymer handguard. We only have airsoft replicas of those in the states so this is always fun to see. It's exotic and new to the eye compared to most other rifles.
I was issued the A1 and never had any problems that others had but the A3 still has familiar parts. The Magazines i was issued were x US Military mags and the feed jaws had a habit of spreading. If they were dropped {remember the A1 magazine release problems?} the rounds would auto eject every where {not good searching long grass looking for rounds}. Over all this looks and sounds like a better weapon
I was 16 years in the RAF starting 1999. During annual weapons handling the rock apes would always stress out about not getting the gas plug stuck by removing it when rotated. Was it actually a big deal or just a minor annoyance?
I'm ex army, used A2 and A3, and I don't really understand where it would get stuck, the port from the barrel is too small, and the port in the top of the gas block is wide enough to shove a combi tool down.
The newer LDS optic and the SUSAT and even the (adapted) ACOG share a single facet of their designs that makes that top rail a lot more useful with them present than it might otherwise be. They're universally rather a bit tall over the bore of the barrel, compared to lower profile sights like an "ordinary" red dot or holo sight with magnifier, iron sights, or something of that sort. Yes, that's one of the reasons that an M16 or M4 with the iron sights built into the carry handle (M16A2 style) is a bit odd to shoot at first if you're used to something like a hunting rifle from your civil life, but it has it's advantages. The advantage that I can see right off the go is that you can fit a laser module (such as the Rheinmetall one that Johnathon attached a dummy version of, or something like the US-spec PEQ-type laser module) on the handguard rail section, it'll automatically hold zero with the optic since measures have been taken to ensure they stay aligned with each other, and the laser module should still be low profile enough that the view out of the magnified optic remains unobstructed or only very slightly obstructed in a way that won't impact typical use. Just put it on (with the switch etc where they need to be) and it's good to go. This leaves the side-mounted rail segments out near the front of the L85A3 free to be used for things like a flashlight module, another sling swivel, maybe a laser DESIGNATOR module (not an aiming module, this time there's some electronics which modulate the laser beam to carry a code so that the laser guided ordinance homes in on only the beam cast from friendly forces, rather than any beam the enemy might be trying to misguide it with), or if nothing else is needed, those sections of rail can be simply removed to clean up the sides of the rifle and remove just a little bit of extra weight.
A lot of people speak bad about the SA80 as a whole, when if I'm fair, the A2 version never let me down, over 2 stints in Afghanistan I never had a single stoppage, and that included a full 9 hours moving from one contact to another, and another time when we fought continuously long contact of 4 hours.. Obviously the A1 was a different story.. And even though the A3 came out in the last few years of my service I never got to use it extensively, nothing past a zeroing session, but it's obviously modernised compared to the A2, but soldiers still slag it off.. I think its completely unfounded, I honestly believe the reason new, unexperienced soldiers of the Gamer generation hate it, is part copying older soldiers, partly it's weight and partly aesthetics! They spend their youth on games using way better weapons in games or watching programs like SEAL Team with it's go fast lightweight kit and they suddenly get handed an SA80 and they are shocked and disappointed they have to still use that old, ugly, unsightly and heavy weapon with all it's bad press.. But if they were honest, after 3 years using it, they'd see it's not bad at all.. It never let me down, not once in live situations, I probably had 10 stoppages, when firing blanks.. And that was in 14 years of service.
@paulnorris1967 Main thing I remember is stripping and reassembling constantly for an entire weekend. Got so quick at it that we beat a few service crew when we were on the range.
@@JakeyBaby6 When I was a cadet and on the shooting team we used to strip and re-assemble the L98A1 (showing my age here) blind folded just for you know fun...
@paulnorris1967 Sounds about right for my experience! The A1 was phased out as I was a cadet. Some regions were still using it. The crossover was around 2009/2010.
Maybe it's better now but from my own experience with the MK1 and MK2 they were prone to jamming so I'm glad my primary was switched to the minime as I called it 5.56 version of the 7.62 gpmg.
the "combination" i saw most in service, a few years back, was A2 weapon in all aspects except fitted with "A3" marked receiver, but with the welded picatinny rail for accepting the Elcan LDS. still black in with Daniel Defense rail. however that was with a Branch that never got the "proper" A3. SUSATS fitted A2s were and probably still around! just mainly for training and recruits.
I don't really understand the new handguard with the modularity, all that's ever put on is the LLM mk3 and the quick release bipod, you aren't allowed to put anything else on, and those that could special forces etc don't even use the A3 so seems a bit pointless to me
the reciever on my L1 bent to one side in a weapons valise being transported to BATUS, I went from being on the shooting team to only hitting a fig 11 at 100mts. I saw an armourer straighten a barrel in a vice with a hammer. when they worked it was very accurate and I never had a problem with stoppages. The sling got worn and shiney so it fell off me running on patrol in Bosnia so I had to tie a knot in the end to stop it slipping off. Bring back Enfield
Which goes to show that icons don't have to be any good. It's a long and embarrassing road to get to where we are now, and unfortunately, no matter how good the latest version is, it's original failure has left a stink on it.
@@ericgrace9995 The soldiers I've interviewed loved it. I accept however that the development process is an embarrassing lesson in bureaucratic meddling that needlessly cost millions and normal soldiers had to foot a terrible bill.
So, the bolt release catch doesn’t snap off anymore? Doesn’t the magazine not drop off when you run with the weapon anymore? Have they fixed the trigger mechanism housing developing a rattle/wobble after the weapon has been disassembled for cleaning more than half a dozen times? And finally, have they redesigned the charging handle so that it doesn’t snag on undergrowth and cock the weapon without you noticing? The couple that I was issued with back in the early 90s felt like they were made from old bits of Mechano.
The new handguard might be lighter but the A2 with the Picatinny rails was by FAR the best looking. RIP quad rails Edit: After looking at it from different angles it's really harmonious. Just cover the MLOK slots with NAR segments and add a sling swivel and it's perfectly well rounded.
Quad rails are heavy and tear your hand up. Much better to have side and bottom keymod or m-lok slots to put right sized picatinny rails where you need them but otherwise keep things slick.
Again all front line units will keep the poly mags, only second and third line units are reverting to the steel mags. And there is a new green PMag that has been issued to some frontline units in place of the older IMags
@@neilconnor2699the steel magazine has no place here, imo. It’s heavier, more expensive, & more prone to corrosion. Apart from making money for H&K, there’s no upside.
It sounds like it was more of a political courtesy move towards H&K, I have no doubt frontline units will continue to "acquire" poly magazines and keep a few H&K ones around for inspections and parade work.
The SUSAT isn't completely gone... I know of somewhere that didn't get enough LDS's... so I know of a weapon with a SUSAT, as it was that or an iron sight, and if you don't fit a sight at all, it's red on JAMES.
Thinking back to when I went from SLR to SA80 (very long time ago) I seem to remember on the SA if you moved the gas plug in the wrong direction you could completely f the weapon up? Couldn't the detent pint go up the gas plug and really piss your bombardier off?
I was chatting with some infantry lads at an interest/recruiting stand last year, and they weren't too pleased with having to unscrew and remove the handguard to service the gas parts. Being able to pop a cover and access them was definitely handier.
3:00 @@CabbageBlokeThe gas parts are the first thing you clean as soon as you get a chance after a contact, that was the whole point of the gas parts being removable with the weapon still assembled. Just what on earth is a "battle clean"? Please stop waffling (lying) if you don't know what you are talking about. 3:58 5:48
@@zoiders I served 21 years. I have NEVER cleaned gas parts after a contact. As that is when you’re most vulnerable. A battle clean is cleaning gas parts and the barrel through. You don’t touch the working parts. You’d know this if you served.
L98A1 was the Cadet GP rifle, single shot rifle, no semi auto. I know this as I fired it regular at Strensall Ranges, York. Back in 1992. It only had leaf sights and forever jammed
While everyone hates on the L85 it is now a great weapon. The initial version of the M16 issued in 1965 to US forces was a disaster with men being found dead with stripped down M16’s found in front of their bodies as they had died trying to clear stoppages. Magazines dropped off as the release button would snag in the jungle, the weapon fouled easily and the build up of carbon meant it jammed regularly. It wasn’t until the M16A2 issued in the 1980’s that Colt got it right.
There’s not a lot of publicly available information about it. All we really know is that it’s incorporating a similar evaluation process to what was done for the knights armament rifle recently aquired for the marines and rangers, it’s probably going to still be chambered in 5.56 and it probably won’t be a bullpup design.
@@immortallvulture I know. That's the extent of my knowledge as well. I figured Mr Ferguson might be better positioned to find out a bit more or at least give us a clear status update on the matter. It's something I've been eagerly awaiting for many years. I'm crossing my fingers for something that's not DI but that's just personal preference because of cleaning and not liking the idea of a gas cloud in my face if I ever have to use the thing haha. That being said I'm given to understand that there's certain advantages to either design.
@@Pirate928 that’s as much as anyone knows, the project isn’t even fully scoped out yet to my knowledge. As for what it ends up being dint be surprised if it’s a HK 416 like everyone else in Europe is adopting.
@@Pirate928 I Reckon it will be the HK416..French and Germans have adopted it and Hk is owned by British Areospace which The British Government have a Sizeable stake in.
@@davidspence5567 I'd be happy with that. I'd be even happier with a bigger calibre like the new American one but everyone seems happy with 5.56 for the time being so I doubt that dream would come true hahaha. Still the 416 is fine weapon from what I've heard.
Jonathan, do you know if the MoD is rechambering the L85A3 to 6.8x51mm, i.e. .277 Fury? Also, love the video and the L85. I wish someone in the States could come out with a civilian version because I would absolutely buy one.
The answer is probably no. The sa80 replacement programme, project grayburn, is due to start on the next few years and the sa80a3 is only a few years old at this point so anew calibre at this stage is a little unnecessary
got to handle an sa80 at an raf regiment reserves display.not the first crap one..later model.i shoot left shoulder..screwed with these, couldnt get used to right shoulder..fa mas is cool because easy interchangeable..lot of older guys still loved the slr l1a1
Something that continues only to be touched upon is the 'Heroic level of 'Mantinence that is required to keep the weapon running. You really do have to cake the working parts in oil to keep the thing running if you have to do any kind of substantial firing,Which is obviously a problem when in dusty/desert Conditions .
The dust and oil issue is a myth. It has never been an issue and HK themselves have said so. Oiling the rifle takes only a couple of seconds more than a regular clean, it's really not terrible at all. You should really do the exact same level of oiling with an AK or an AR15 if you want it to be reliable.
@@davidspence5567 read the HK reports, if your interested. The rifle worked with proper maintenance, which wasn't properly taught. Adjusting training increased reliability to the same as other NATO standard rifles (including the M16). It's called operation Nerine
SUSATs are 100% still in service and A3s are becoming far more widespread, Engineer units are now equipped with them. They're also being issued with the same Grippod foregrips.
2:05 That some were willing to stick with KeyMod until such a late time despite the American experiments showing its inferiority being published way back in the spring of 2017 baffles me to this day. 8:13 Who's stuck with irons? I've heard it claimed that naval base security personnel weren't allowed to have SUSAT due to limitations on the use of tritium near nuclear submarines, but given that LDS was adopted way back in 2011 or so I'm not sure whether this is still relevant. 20:59 ...And the price tag was reportedly accordingly Gucci as well.
Do we have any information as to why some black A3 uppers were put into service ahead of the A3 proper? Presumably the black A3 uppers were then removed, cerakoted, and had the new rail welded on when the whole rifle went in for A3 upgrade.
Because as John said, it was incremental upgrade to the upper. But at the time the Army was still flirting with the idea of replacing the SA80. But went with the stupid idea to upgrade the A2 (Cost saving). The black A3 uppers are still on A2 rifles as a technological upgrade to the A2 and to bring it inline with the A3. Because lots of the A2s will not be upgraded to the A3 standard.
It is fascinating how much Pride plays a role in this whole sordid affair. On the one level, the British Army was too proud to keep using a foreign firearm after decades of successful service by the Belgian light automatic rifle. On the other hand, the British Government was too proud to admit that it didn't actually know HOW to design a modern firearm anymore. In turn, the British Army was too proud to admit that the gun that British designers gave them was not remotely competitive with most any foreign design extant. Pride goeth before the fall, or in this case, before a very long and tedious process of correction for errors that were almost all avoidable.
Even in A1 guise the SA80 is a very accurate rifle, unfortunately it was designed and built on the cheap and they given to a workforce who knew it was their last job before redundancy to build. I never had any problems with the A1 although I did only use it in the environment for which it was designed, Western Europe. Don’t forget the M16 had many of the same issues when first introduced.
@@Jabber-ig3iw Mind, the M16 itself was actually not a particularly flawed or unreliable design. Most all the serious problems were the result of user errors by the US Army AFTER adoption, mostly related to using using a different propellant in the ammunition without proper testing, resulting in fouling problems that didn't exist with the correct ammunition. M16, when maintained as intended by the designers and using the correct ammunition ran very well. SA80's issues were far more fundamental to the gun's core mechanics, hence the long and bitter process to make the gun competitive with existing designs.
@@genericpersonx333 OK, but what about the M14? How long did some in the US Army spend trying to find that "battle rifle" a new niche just to justify its existence and not admit that digging their heels in and snubbing the FAL or similar system was just basic hubris?
@@genericpersonx333 my experience of the SA80 was it worked perfectly fine in the environment it was designed for, Europe. Unfortunately it wasn’t much good in the desert and jungle. I always found slightly less oil than recommended was the way to go, it was very accurate, and I had very few stoppages, we did hate the magazines, they were garbage.
There is a BFA for the Surefire flash suppressor, but the MOD was to cheap to purchase them at a MRSP of $2-300 USD or it was just coming out for issue.
Given that the price tag for the A3 upgrade is said to be astronomical (£75 million for 44 thousand rifles), one can see why they were penny-pinching. Of course, nowadays the priorities are different, hence why you get 10 thousand L403A1 rifles with sights & accessories for £90 million (and in 10 years time) courtesy of KAC & Edgar Bros. Choose your poison, as they say.
A millitary battle rifle that can not be fired right and left handed is a bag of nails. I can shoot right or left handed, and in Ulster I always sat rear left in the Rover.
@@kalsabrain1370 It's a short, compact weapon, it's ideal for CQB. But what do I know? I've only served in the first Gulf War, then Iraq again, then Afghanistan, and many other places.
@@matthewnewell4517 I 100% agree. Compactness is one of the best things about bullpups. But not being able to aim properly when firing leftie isn't ideal
Looks like I had a bit of "duff gen" on the reversion to HK steel mags - the EMAGs were to be replaced but if it was by HK steel mags that was only temporary. L85A3 and A2 should now be fed from M3 PMAGs, at least in infantry use.
I recently encountered Royal Marine Commandos. They had L85A2s and EMAGs. The Gen 4 PMAG doesn't exist under that name and I'm not sure what you mean.
the e p-mag has been std issue for just over 10 years..................
The EMAG is also discontinued. The EMAG was only made because the current generation of PMAGs at the time would not fit and feed in HK416’s or L85’s. New generation PMAG’s (gen 4) can, and are slowly being introduced into Std issue
Jonathan, do you happen to know what they are doing with A3's for Jungle warfare? Just re-issuing A2's?
@Colin_Shapton yeah or a1s both with iron sight handle shit
This Jonathan seems like a knowledgable fella, he should write a book.
I think you're onto something there...
Providing he doesn't advertise it, with elevator music.
😆
@@PawFromTheBroons its a quirk haha
I'm still hoping he'll get back with the Darkness for a reunion tour.
@@brendanukveteran2360 do you mean Jonathan Ferguson, keeper of the whizzbangs and noisy gubbins at the Royal Armouries? 🔫
It is the year 2050 and the British troops have received the latest A4 version of the L85.
2050 , the A1066 Longbow was introduced to service 😅
Phased plasma SA80 in the 40-watt range?
Unless the people down range change, then the bullet probably won't and if the bullet doesn't why not keep the familiar rifle? With refinements.
I'm holding out for floating mind controlled knives.
@@RoyalArmouriesMuseum it's just what you see, pal!
Hang on.. L85s were bartered to the Elbonians in 2045 for their new artillery service in return for mud.
The L85 series makes me think the British army had far more animosity for left-handers than they ever did for Germans.
Rightly so, deviants.
They don't take kindly to practising sinisterists.
Ironically there is an relatively large amount of british SF guys that are left handed.
No experience of SA80. But firing the SLR from the left shoulder would make me vomit on the ranges with swallowing cordite. I couldn't hit anything with the right eye and right shoulder.
Back in 1976, before the SA-80 was in service I was fortunate to handle the prototype/pre-production version of the SA-80. This was the SECOND Bull Pup design, the first from Enfield was a competitor to the Belgium FN/SLR and was 458 or 485 calibre. The Royal Small Arms School told us that about 15% - 20% of the SA-80 would be Left Handed versions, the exact proportion was awaiting feedback. I believe they commented that the Royal Marines had requested the greatest proportion of Left Hand weapons. The Left Hand version was ESSENTIAL because of the potential harm of using the weapon and the "potential" for losing an eye, their words not mine. This was a contradictory statement since the concern was also about street fighting, close quarters combat, where using the weapon one would need to be able to use the weapon both Left and Right handed.
It appears that THE DESIGN was the FLAW not having a Left and Right Handed version OR JUST COST?
Thank you, Jonathan Ferguson, the keeper of Firearms & Artillery at the Royal Armouries museum in the UK, for this review.
You know when Royal Armouries posts a video, it'll be a good day. Probably the most academic and factual authority on firearms in the world.
Copyright strikes? For your own book?
For the 'Elevator Music' we'd play over the plug :)
@@RoyalArmouriesMuseum ring up John Cleese and see if you can get the rights to the Monty Python elevator music.
@@RoyalArmouriesMuseum if you were some tree hugger plugging your sparkling water on yt I'll wager you wouldn't get a strike for some harmless background music. 🧐
@@beefycheesecakeNot how it works
@@beefycheesecakeI prefer to think of them as lentil munchers.
22:02 The lack of a flip up cover to clean the gas parts is a massive ball ache. The infantry lads always developed drills that might not be in the manual. Carrying a paint brush for cleaning crap and dust off was one. The other was cleaning the gas parts as soon as you safely and reasonably could after a contact. For all the L85's faults the ability to pop the gas parts out with the rifle in one piece for a quick ream out was a good feature.
That’s a non-issue. You could leave them untouched for years and you’ll never have an issue.
@@ar568 no, thats completely wrong mate.
@@ar568 Are you not aware how carbon fouling works?
Even as a cadet we had issues when you put a lot of rounds through where the gas system would become extremely clogged, stopping it working properly. It also became an absolute PITA to clean.
@ar568 nah, not quite true. Had some bods try that at Def Osc a few years back,3000 ish rounds in and that was a mistake
@@ar568 So how many mags have you put through a L85 in one go sweetie? 😂
Great video as always. As an MOD armourer that takes a real passion to this system, and plays with it every day, this was very informative. I really appreciate the clarification on the "A2/3" body marks, as that throws a lot of people off.
Here's some extra points that are worth noting:
As a few have said, the SUSAT is far from gone, it still very much outnumbers the LDS, and is seen by many as the more easy to use system.
The internals are not the same as the A2. While they are rated to be able to use A2 components, the Bolt and BCA get marked up with the serial of the weapon (as does the Barrel) in order to show that they are tested to A3 standards. If they do not match up, then they are likely A2 components fitted, though this practice (marking up the bolt and Bca) is being phased out now.
The BUTT is different! Not a huge thing, but the butt screws used on the A2 are flatheads, while the A3 has hex screws. No living human knows why.
The HAND-GUARD that you have is, interestingly, the post-mod version, as you stated. But the biggest change is not so much the shape of the holes, but the guards fitted near the safety. If you compare the older designs, the safety-bar is unprotected as can get caught in webbing, only to snap. The newer version has those two "buffers" either side that aid in things not getting caught up.
Now here's your challenge if you want a real SA80 collection:
L85A2/3 (IW)
L22A2 (Carbine)
L86A2 (LSW)
L98A2 (General Purpose)
L402A1 (SA80 in .22)
L103A2 (Drill Purpose)
L116A1 (Inert)
L126A1 (Parade Purpose)
Thanks for your insightful input :)
You need to put the absolute abomination of the L98A1 in there with its bobin style cocking handle 🤢
I do wonder if the A2s with the Daniel Defense handguards are still around.
My best guess is that the flat screws in the butt have been changed to stop people being able to disassemble the butt plate. The flat heads could be done with the combination tool. Hex would try to stop troops removing the plates themselves.
@@martynsouthgate1551I’m going with hex that Techs can then use Hex spammers and dare I say Impact Tools for an early knock off. Also easier to torque. It’s why everything else in life is Hex or Torx.
I'd like to add a caveat/correction to the part about the quad rail and brown coating.
It may well be standard for the army but not for other services, at least not in practice. In the various RAF armouries I've been in, there's still plenty of black coating, green handguard L85A2s sitting around. People going out on ops or guard duties are getting the "TES" fit (as it used to be known), quad rail and SUSAT but even these are still black not brown. Only the regiment so far have the new A3.
And there's still plenty of polymer mags floating around.
Yeah the a3s are only being issued to frontline troops but that will be mainly infantry
Same old same old, the Army and Rocks had the SA80 in the mid/late 80's, I as a techy didn't get my hands on one til about 92.
@seanjoseph8637 the field army don't need the a3s tbh where as the inf do
I've still got scars on my hands from the A2 'cheesegrater' handguard. Using it with bayonet used to rip your hands to shreds if you weren't wearing gloves.
As said in the video
@lewisallan9963 always remember going on tabs with no gloves always made a better tab. Went through bayonet with no gloves aswell but didn't get any scars
But did it grate cheese?
Sean Connery sees the scope marking:
"Ahh, Schpecter."
Spat my coffee because of this
Hi Jonathan, I can confirm Magpul E-Mag is still the standard in service magazine, some Gen 3 P-Mags are now also in service. However if a unit has a substantial stock of HK mags, they generally won't replace them unless there is a significant need
I used the A1 in training and at most of my units but was issued an A2 when I was attached to 1PWRR for Iraq. The A1 was an accurate rifle but dear god...everything else about it. The A2 was a godsend by comparison, never got to see the A3 as I was out by 05. Oddly enough the A2's we had all had the original hand guard, and were not fitted with rails, but some were fitted for the UGL.
Great video as usual. However something that REALLY needs mentioning about the A3, is that the front grip is no longer supported by the barrel. Effectively allowing the barrel to float. If you fit a collimator to an A2 and put any force on the grip you will see deflection. The UOR bipod for the A2 ruined its accuracy because of this. The A3, like the A2 is an incredible system.
Yeah I thought it was odd he didn't mention that since that is the main reason to change the front grip in the way they did. Or so a HK staff member told me when showing me around it.
pixel Jonathan Ferguson is something I did not expect.
but very much welcome.
I eagerly await the inevitable 2D indie platforming/bullet hell game.
Very much so!
@@Darwinist They could probably sell it as a pixel art "lego" with a selection of iconic firearms in the museum.
It'd be a cool little souvenir to stick on a shelf :)
"Do you feel subscribed, Punk? Well, do ya?"
They'd need about 50,000 different weapons in the game, from flintlock grenade launchers to aircraft guns.
I am going to throw this out there I used the A1 and A2 and NEVER had serious problem with it, lots of people try to jump on the band wagon saying its a pile of shite. Yes initially some teething problems with the A1 the magazine release catch but apart from that it was a reliable weapon. Only had one stoppage using the LSW and adjusted the gas plug to excessive and continued firing no problems. That said I actually cleaned my rifle so it done what it said on the tin. Yes loved the SLR but different strokes for different folks. If the end of the world came what weapon would I choose to roll with to survive . . . . .AK47 ;) lol
the SA80 family were exceptional weapons, for a weapons designed by a bunch of Engineers with little to no knowledge of Firearms and had to learn from scratch.
@@hdvrNG yeah I have a nice flat bow in likelihood I won’t get my hands on an Ak 👍
@@MrTrilbe indeed , they were working on it from the mid 70’s I’ve actually seen photos of a prototype with wooden furniture
The A1 was awful.
Cocking shaped in such a way that it threw empty cases back into the working parts, TMH had the ability to not fit to the upper properly affecting zero and worst of all the firing pin would always break.
It was made and designed by people that do don’t know what they was doing.
Gladly fixed with the A2.
Performance is adequate but the ergonomics are awful.
As I’m local to Fort Nelson I’ve been there many times, but went this weekend for the DDay 80 display, and I have to say it did not disappoint. It’s the only time I’ve been in a museum and when the videos play, everyone stopped to watch them both. It’s well worth a visit, but the silhouette’s were quite special
We're glad you had a good time! I'll pass it on to the folks in Portsmouth
To the best of my knowledge not true regards Cerokote on L85A2. There were for a time instructions in the AESP for the local temporary application of Coyote Brown spray paint. Those instructions were removed several years ago. I've certainly never encountered a Cerokoted A2 at any unit I've carried out an inspection at.
Also the SUSAT is very much far from gone. All second line and reserve units now have SUSAT as a bare minimum. Infantry reserve units do have Elcan LDS.
Yeah there's plenty of black L85A2s still around, the brown paint was only temporary for ops.
Black is still standard for the RAF at least
i've only seen a couple of the painted A2's, confused me at the time
@@CornishMoose strictly speaking all A2s should be black, the instruction was to return them to black when the paint instructions were removed from that AESP. Obviously that never happened in many cases and I often see painted A2s & SUSATs all looking pretty ratty by now too.
Got a few mates in the army who highly rate this rifle as a significant improvement over the previous iteration of this rifle!
As a CWO with the air cadets I got to handle the original SA-80 that was sent to RAF Uxbridge. It was still in its polystyrene case with various accessories. It was only with them as a trial. After the Falkands was they got several ex Argentinian weapons.
I've always liked the visual design of the L85. It looks very unique and nice.
It's a tin cuboid with a grip and magazine well!
@@imnotusingmyrealname4566 Your face is a tin cuboid with a grip and magazine well.
Taste is truly subjective lol
I think we've found the L85's designer
It will be the new stormtrooper weapon in Star Wars episode 24
he missed the whole point of the new hand guard. It’s not bolted on the dove / gas block so you don’t flex the barrel pulling on the down grip which is issued. Now the barrel is only mounted at its rear. This “floating barrel” alone has given around a 17 point increase to an average soldiers annual combat marksman test score I found in testing.
A huge improvement in accuracy. It’s raised standards across the board. We use this now regularly at 600m with good results. We are wiping the floor in competitions internationally with this rifle. At bisley last year the top 3 teams had A3. There was a large gap between teams with A2.
Well, to be honest, soldiers on the field _will_ be using tactical gloves most of times, so it's not like a quad-rail cheese grater is a big problem under _that_ point of view. Fact is, quad-rail handguards are substantially heavier. And nowadays, ounces are pounds.
You should have the monopod.
Never going to grate cheese the same way again
After training on the A1 but going to Iraq with the A2, I honestly had no reason to dislike the A2. It felt reliable, accurate and always loved the compact feeling of a bullpup, and the A3 looks awesome.
'Compact feeling of a bullpup', compared to what?
We got issued with the Original SA80 rifle, I thought it was a good weapon accurate, the magazines were a bit naff, we also complained about the magazine release, as we had some incidents of soldiers doing soildery things of jumping and rolling around and magazines falling off! so they did listen and put a release catch guard on, good video, you should do a book mate.
Your editor was having entirely too much fun with that book plug bit :p
It's the small things
@@RoyalArmouriesMuseum always appreciate the little touches, it's stuff like that which makes Aardman so eminently rewatchable
Holy shyt I mis-read your comment for split second. 😂
That Ian McCollum picked the SA80 as a weird weapon apparently still stings :D
I laughed my ass off when I saw that.
Please do more British Army firearms! Never enough!
If you weren't already aware, C&Rsenal on youtube has many older ones. Special mention for the lewis gun tests.
I only ever carried the A1, after 6 years of carrying the SLR, there were a lot of 'modifications' I seem to remember that used to come down on microfiche to unit armourers at the time, now am showing my age..
Microfiche? Now there's a word I haven't heard for a while.
The A1 had a *lot* of in services mods to try and correct it's deficiencies. For instance the magazine catch guard; loads of people think it was an A2 mod but it was one of the first major mods to be released. I even think the very last A1s ex-Nottingham had them from the factory.
@@DavidCowie2022 Didn't he used to do the weather? 😂
I don't think I ever used an A2. Left in 98. Sure all the obvious mods were done for the time.
Jonathan Ferguson........... you are a LEGEND mate and probably have one of the best jobs in the world, and its one that I would chew my own foot off to have.
Thank you for your amazing work mate, I appreciate everything you do on this channel. 🇬🇧✌️
I recently ordered Jonathan's book on bullpups from Headstamp (the signed version, of course). I haven't received it yet, but I'm looking forward to it.
I also took the opportunity to get the facsimile of the EM2 manual, because why not?
I started out my training with the 7.62mm SLR and converted to the SA80 during training.
The old crusties will harp on about the SLR for stopping power and reliability yet most never fired it in combat or the few that did would have been NI & the Falklands.
Times change and so does the need to adapt.
The modern Infantry soldier carry more weight than their predessors in terms of additional kit,body armour, etc.
They also need to realise that the modern battlefield is more mobile so its about compatibility and fighting close quarters and a lot of snap shooting.
As for stopping power and reliability.
99.9% is down to the individuals responsibility of maintaining his weapon and honing his shooting skills.
I was achieving first round kills around the 400m mark in Iraq in 2004 will very little reliability issues.
You only have to look at the videos coming out of Ukraine to notice to absence of long-barrelled weapons in trenches and AFVs to see those days are gone.
If the British infantry need more suppressing firepower there's a Turret and their fire support group or sharpshooter rifles.
Settle down Rambo
As a serving soldier in the army reserve, I'm still waiting to get my hands on the A3. We're still using the A2, with the SUSAT, and Daniel Defence handguard
I'm guessing you are in a CSS capbadge?
@@dwarvensphere1094Royal Artillery
8:05 Thought you should know that the SUSAT is very much still in service, especially in reserves.
Some L98A2s have been fitted with the A3 body… that means that the old A1/A2 sub calibre adapter cannot be safely fitted to the weapon… so the sub calibre kit has been withdrawn…
I'm very pleased that the SA-80 has turned into the weapon that it is today, it is now a very reliable( as long as you keep it clean) and very accurate rifle.
As I joined the Army over 30 years ago, we had the original pretty poor SA-80A1......... which was very frustrating and I actually wanted to go back to the phenomenal L1-A1 SLR, which was an absolute beast!!!!🇬🇧✌️
I was going to say, you should do the L98A2, though difficult if you don't have one. You could always travel to a cadet centre for an "on-location" video! You could do a side by side with the L103A2 for fun.
I like the new A3 hand guard a lot lot more. Always liked bullpups, but was previously never a fan of the any of the SA80 systems.
The new front hand guard looks similar to the silhouette of the MDR, which is my favourite rifle.
Absolutely gorgeous rifles. I prefer the looks of the A2 but man the colors on the new A3s are fantastic. Thanks for the video. Hopefully one day they'll sell these to us Americans so I can own one
Possibly one of the fuglyest rifles ever built....do you wear specticles Lad....😂
Why would you ever willingly want to touch such a hideous rifle
Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, unless they disagree with my opinion of course
Idk I think they look cool. I'm not the only one. My little airsoft L22A2 gets compliments every time I bring it to the field with me. It's a break from the boring ass AR15 that everybody else likes to dote over all day long
@@noscopesallowed8128 In the eyes of this beer-holder, what beauty? Ohhh... you're an airsofter?! OK NVM...
@@kbng02 what a disgusting personality you have
First time I’ve seen that hand guard. Had to do a double take when you had that close up and the rail seemed to move quite easily. Glad to know you just had it loosened up.
i miss my LSW . carried it for 5 years while in germany and on 2 tours of iraq . heavy but a solid platform and i found mines to be a tackdriver and distance .
L85A2 (with carry handle) is one of my dream guns even though it's british.
Everyone gives this rifle stick but I loved it in basic training. 20 inch barrel with an overall length comparable to something with a much shorter barrel if it wasn’t bullpup. The mag is right in the armpit so the bulk of the weight is far back making it snappy and smashed every single target at 400m, 300m and 200m dropped a couple on the closer ones as I got giddy I might get HPS (highest possible score) on the whole damn thing. Still hit I think 58 of 62 and found the bullpup nice to reload in prone as you can keep your elbows almost in plank position rather than having to reach forward passes the trigger mechanism.
A well cleaned barrel and gas parts and the stoppages weren’t bad, handle for nice chopping forward assist. I’ve shot a fair few rifles, lmgs, pistols and shotguns and maybe it’s because we lived with that one. But I found it to be a damn good weapon system that is often misunderstood.
My two cents
Mine Butt 44 / 081509 never let me down once in 18 months in Northern Ireland
It’s an adequate weapon overall, but for a COD player joining the cadets it was definitely a massive let down initially. Balance, weight, awkwardness particularly to reload, whereas would have loved to be able to learn on an M4 (30% lighter) variant. The LA85 gives less badass points, so understandable that the SAS don’t use them.
Got to mess with one of these when we did some cross-unit training with 3 Para here in the states when they came to visit. Pretty neat rifle, always had a sweet spot for bullpups.
Ahhh my weekly Firearms History class from Mr. Jonathan Ferguson, keep up the good work👍
Mr? Mr? How dare you sir. You should address him by his proper title at all times which is Jonathan Ferguson the Keeper of Firearms and Artillery at the Royal Armouries Museum in the UK, which Houses a Collection of Thousands of Iconic Weapons from throughout History.
In a rush, you may abbreviate to JFTKOFAAATRAMITUKWHACOTOIWFTH.
@@bunburyodo ah I forgot that part xD
Class is in session 📚
I remember seeing A3 marked uppers on L98A2s and being very confused, thank you for clearing up what their deal is
Always loved the various models
Of the SA80. Never had an issue with the rifle once. Gets too much bad Rep from people who have never fired it. Great weapon system.
13:30 Thank you for answering a question which came up last weekend: one of my cadre's A2s had the extended rail and newer-style welds around the trunnion (but still saying A2 on the markings), which caused some confusion.
This feels like one of those 'What British people say' 'What British people mean' moments. :D
"Yes the intercourse was perfectly adequate dear."
I'm not sure about what you mean by that. Is it a simple case of saying to that irritating pesky neighbour of yours, out of pressured politeness, that you would "love" to have them over for tea, all the while praying and hoping they would just decline your coerced invitation?
Not sure if you mean the onscreen corrections, but even Ian McCollum has to use asterisks sometimes, because mistakes in the video do happen.
Since you mentioned the L98 cadet rifle, I thought I'd mention that when I was a cadet, there were 2 "types". One was normal and the other had concrete in the barrel which was sometimes used for drill. It also had some different colours, like red on the bolt assembly. I'm sure you are aware, but I thought I'd mention it.
The "drill" in "drill purpose" does not refer to foot drill. There is no such thing as a rifle for foot drill. You will also find DP machine guns.
No, please bore me with the A2 specific polymer handguard. We only have airsoft replicas of those in the states so this is always fun to see. It's exotic and new to the eye compared to most other rifles.
I like the look of the polymer handguard
I was issued the A1 and never had any problems that others had but the A3 still has familiar parts. The Magazines i was issued were x US Military mags and the feed jaws had a habit of spreading. If they were dropped {remember the A1 magazine release problems?} the rounds would auto eject every where {not good searching long grass looking for rounds}. Over all this looks and sounds like a better weapon
I was 16 years in the RAF starting 1999. During annual weapons handling the rock apes would always stress out about not getting the gas plug stuck by removing it when rotated. Was it actually a big deal or just a minor annoyance?
If it did happen, you'd need to drill/cut the gas plug off, so yes.
You would also owe your armourer lots of biscuits!
I'm ex army, used A2 and A3, and I don't really understand where it would get stuck, the port from the barrel is too small, and the port in the top of the gas block is wide enough to shove a combi tool down.
I'm surprised it's still in service, largely replaced by the Canadian C7
I recognized that quote from the thumbnail 👀
The newer LDS optic and the SUSAT and even the (adapted) ACOG share a single facet of their designs that makes that top rail a lot more useful with them present than it might otherwise be.
They're universally rather a bit tall over the bore of the barrel, compared to lower profile sights like an "ordinary" red dot or holo sight with magnifier, iron sights, or something of that sort. Yes, that's one of the reasons that an M16 or M4 with the iron sights built into the carry handle (M16A2 style) is a bit odd to shoot at first if you're used to something like a hunting rifle from your civil life, but it has it's advantages.
The advantage that I can see right off the go is that you can fit a laser module (such as the Rheinmetall one that Johnathon attached a dummy version of, or something like the US-spec PEQ-type laser module) on the handguard rail section, it'll automatically hold zero with the optic since measures have been taken to ensure they stay aligned with each other, and the laser module should still be low profile enough that the view out of the magnified optic remains unobstructed or only very slightly obstructed in a way that won't impact typical use. Just put it on (with the switch etc where they need to be) and it's good to go.
This leaves the side-mounted rail segments out near the front of the L85A3 free to be used for things like a flashlight module, another sling swivel, maybe a laser DESIGNATOR module (not an aiming module, this time there's some electronics which modulate the laser beam to carry a code so that the laser guided ordinance homes in on only the beam cast from friendly forces, rather than any beam the enemy might be trying to misguide it with), or if nothing else is needed, those sections of rail can be simply removed to clean up the sides of the rifle and remove just a little bit of extra weight.
That’s a beautiful rifle.
This, with the KS-1s, the boys finally have some proper kit.
Not everyone is getting it, will be one bod from a section 2 if you're lucky
A lot of people speak bad about the SA80 as a whole, when if I'm fair, the A2 version never let me down, over 2 stints in Afghanistan I never had a single stoppage, and that included a full 9 hours moving from one contact to another, and another time when we fought continuously long contact of 4 hours.. Obviously the A1 was a different story.. And even though the A3 came out in the last few years of my service I never got to use it extensively, nothing past a zeroing session, but it's obviously modernised compared to the A2, but soldiers still slag it off.. I think its completely unfounded, I honestly believe the reason new, unexperienced soldiers of the Gamer generation hate it, is part copying older soldiers, partly it's weight and partly aesthetics! They spend their youth on games using way better weapons in games or watching programs like SEAL Team with it's go fast lightweight kit and they suddenly get handed an SA80 and they are shocked and disappointed they have to still use that old, ugly, unsightly and heavy weapon with all it's bad press.. But if they were honest, after 3 years using it, they'd see it's not bad at all.. It never let me down, not once in live situations, I probably had 10 stoppages, when firing blanks.. And that was in 14 years of service.
L98A2 was so great as a Cadet!!! Miss using it.
Apart from the 300 times you had to clean it because the armorer was having a bad day...
@paulnorris1967 Main thing I remember is stripping and reassembling constantly for an entire weekend. Got so quick at it that we beat a few service crew when we were on the range.
@@JakeyBaby6 When I was a cadet and on the shooting team we used to strip and re-assemble the L98A1 (showing my age here) blind folded just for you know fun...
@paulnorris1967 Sounds about right for my experience! The A1 was phased out as I was a cadet. Some regions were still using it. The crossover was around 2009/2010.
@@JakeyBaby6what are service crew?
Maybe it's better now but from my own experience with the MK1 and MK2 they were prone to jamming so I'm glad my primary was switched to the minime as I called it 5.56 version of the 7.62 gpmg.
Jonathan seems to know a lot about L85s, perhaps he should write a book about them.
the "combination" i saw most in service, a few years back, was A2 weapon in all aspects except fitted with "A3" marked receiver, but with the welded picatinny rail for accepting the Elcan LDS. still black in with Daniel Defense rail. however that was with a Branch that never got the "proper" A3. SUSATS fitted A2s were and probably still around! just mainly for training and recruits.
I don't really understand the new handguard with the modularity, all that's ever put on is the LLM mk3 and the quick release bipod, you aren't allowed to put anything else on, and those that could special forces etc don't even use the A3 so seems a bit pointless to me
the reciever on my L1 bent to one side in a weapons valise being transported to BATUS, I went from being on the shooting team to only hitting a fig 11 at 100mts. I saw an armourer straighten a barrel in a vice with a hammer. when they worked it was very accurate and I never had a problem with stoppages. The sling got worn and shiney so it fell off me running on patrol in Bosnia so I had to tie a knot in the end to stop it slipping off. Bring back Enfield
Love this family of rifles, iconic.
Jonathan would agree ;)
Which goes to show that icons don't have to be any good. It's a long and embarrassing road to get to where we are now, and unfortunately, no matter how good the latest version is, it's original failure has left a stink on it.
@@ericgrace9995 The soldiers I've interviewed loved it.
I accept however that the development process is an embarrassing lesson in bureaucratic meddling that needlessly cost millions and normal soldiers had to foot a terrible bill.
So, the bolt release catch doesn’t snap off anymore? Doesn’t the magazine not drop off when you run with the weapon anymore? Have they fixed the trigger mechanism housing developing a rattle/wobble after the weapon has been disassembled for cleaning more than half a dozen times? And finally, have they redesigned the charging handle so that it doesn’t snag on undergrowth and cock the weapon without you noticing?
The couple that I was issued with back in the early 90s felt like they were made from old bits of Mechano.
yay new SA80 vid
I used the A1 and A2 ...apart from the cocking handle knocking the empty case back into the working parts on the A1 I thought them both great weapons
Thank you for covering this! I always have a soft spot for the rifle despite it's infamous reputation.
Carbine also used by Military Working Dog Handlers easier to sling when working the pooch searching for IEDs and such.
Plenty of SUSATS still in service in combat units. Royal Armoured Corps still have many of them.
Because there not a combat unit lol
I preordered the british bullpup dev book originally and have to say it was a great read. Couldn't recommend enough.
The new handguard might be lighter but the A2 with the Picatinny rails was by FAR the best looking. RIP quad rails
Edit: After looking at it from different angles it's really harmonious. Just cover the MLOK slots with NAR segments and add a sling swivel and it's perfectly well rounded.
Quad rails are heavy and tear your hand up. Much better to have side and bottom keymod or m-lok slots to put right sized picatinny rails where you need them but otherwise keep things slick.
That was facinating. Would be interesting to hear about the development of picatinny rails and attachement stuff
Undoing the move to a polymer magazine is disappointingly on-brand for the UK MOD.
Jonathan is mistaken there, they are still widely fielded
Again all front line units will keep the poly mags, only second and third line units are reverting to the steel mags. And there is a new green PMag that has been issued to some frontline units in place of the older IMags
@@neilconnor2699the steel magazine has no place here, imo. It’s heavier, more expensive, & more prone to corrosion. Apart from making money for H&K, there’s no upside.
It sounds like it was more of a political courtesy move towards H&K, I have no doubt frontline units will continue to "acquire" poly magazines and keep a few H&K ones around for inspections and parade work.
My word ...I've been 'out' (lol) 15yrs now...nice to see that nothing has changed
The SUSAT isn't completely gone... I know of somewhere that didn't get enough LDS's... so I know of a weapon with a SUSAT, as it was that or an iron sight, and if you don't fit a sight at all, it's red on JAMES.
Thinking back to when I went from SLR to SA80 (very long time ago) I seem to remember on the SA if you moved the gas plug in the wrong direction you could completely f the weapon up? Couldn't the detent pint go up the gas plug and really piss your bombardier off?
I was chatting with some infantry lads at an interest/recruiting stand last year, and they weren't too pleased with having to unscrew and remove the handguard to service the gas parts. Being able to pop a cover and access them was definitely handier.
You’re hardly going to touch them in combat.
Maybe to do a battle clean but that’s about it, so it’s not really an issue.
The pop covers had the issue of the clips weakening and the top cover popping off at an unexpected moment, not ideal when shooting!
Or alternatively, seizing up and needing a (large) screwdriver to open, also not ideal when you're trying to access it for cleaning
3:00 @@CabbageBlokeThe gas parts are the first thing you clean as soon as you get a chance after a contact, that was the whole point of the gas parts being removable with the weapon still assembled. Just what on earth is a "battle clean"? Please stop waffling (lying) if you don't know what you are talking about. 3:58 5:48
@@zoiders I served 21 years.
I have NEVER cleaned gas parts after a contact. As that is when you’re most vulnerable.
A battle clean is cleaning gas parts and the barrel through.
You don’t touch the working parts.
You’d know this if you served.
L98A1 was the Cadet GP rifle, single shot rifle, no semi auto. I know this as I fired it regular at Strensall Ranges, York. Back in 1992. It only had leaf sights and forever jammed
While everyone hates on the L85 it is now a great weapon. The initial version of the M16 issued in 1965 to US forces was a disaster with men being found dead with stripped down M16’s found in front of their bodies as they had died trying to clear stoppages. Magazines dropped off as the release button would snag in the jungle, the weapon fouled easily and the build up of carbon meant it jammed regularly. It wasn’t until the M16A2 issued in the 1980’s that Colt got it right.
I would want adequate I would want state of the art. For so long it was substandard.
We need a video about the replacement program for the L85
There’s not a lot of publicly available information about it. All we really know is that it’s incorporating a similar evaluation process to what was done for the knights armament rifle recently aquired for the marines and rangers, it’s probably going to still be chambered in 5.56 and it probably won’t be a bullpup design.
@@immortallvulture I know. That's the extent of my knowledge as well. I figured Mr Ferguson might be better positioned to find out a bit more or at least give us a clear status update on the matter. It's something I've been eagerly awaiting for many years. I'm crossing my fingers for something that's not DI but that's just personal preference because of cleaning and not liking the idea of a gas cloud in my face if I ever have to use the thing haha. That being said I'm given to understand that there's certain advantages to either design.
@@Pirate928 that’s as much as anyone knows, the project isn’t even fully scoped out yet to my knowledge.
As for what it ends up being dint be surprised if it’s a HK 416 like everyone else in Europe is adopting.
@@Pirate928 I Reckon it will be the HK416..French and Germans have adopted it and Hk is owned by British Areospace which The British Government have a Sizeable stake in.
@@davidspence5567 I'd be happy with that. I'd be even happier with a bigger calibre like the new American one but everyone seems happy with 5.56 for the time being so I doubt that dream would come true hahaha. Still the 416 is fine weapon from what I've heard.
L98A2 brings back memories as a cadet in the Sherwood Forrester's happy days.
Jonathan, do you know if the MoD is rechambering the L85A3 to 6.8x51mm, i.e. .277 Fury?
Also, love the video and the L85. I wish someone in the States could come out with a civilian version because I would absolutely buy one.
There is no plan to rechamber them
had that cartridge already became a new NATO standard? iirc, not, and may never be.
The answer is probably no. The sa80 replacement programme, project grayburn, is due to start on the next few years and the sa80a3 is only a few years old at this point so anew calibre at this stage is a little unnecessary
That would be a no. The amount of time and money required for a calibre change would be better spent on the future replacement weapon system.
No
got to handle an sa80 at an raf regiment reserves display.not the first crap one..later model.i shoot left shoulder..screwed with these, couldnt get used to right shoulder..fa mas is cool because easy interchangeable..lot of older guys still loved the slr l1a1
Something that continues only to be touched upon is the 'Heroic level of 'Mantinence that is required to keep the weapon running. You really do have to cake the working parts in oil to keep the thing running if you have to do any kind of substantial firing,Which is obviously a problem when in dusty/desert Conditions .
The dust and oil issue is a myth. It has never been an issue and HK themselves have said so.
Oiling the rifle takes only a couple of seconds more than a regular clean, it's really not terrible at all.
You should really do the exact same level of oiling with an AK or an AR15 if you want it to be reliable.
@@pluemas yeah OK mate. I was only there in Afghanistan and Iraq (twice) but what do me and Thousands of former servicemen/Woman know a?
@@davidspence5567 read the HK reports, if your interested. The rifle worked with proper maintenance, which wasn't properly taught. Adjusting training increased reliability to the same as other NATO standard rifles (including the M16). It's called operation Nerine
Love the title/thumbnail for this review. haha.
I'm still a bulpup fan, but the history of this rifle has more twists than a Green-meanie.
It’s like pimping out your 2011 corolla while the Royal Marines are being issued a Lexus.
Chad L85s vs third-world military dictatorship weapon of choice AR15 variants
Is there a problem with the tan paint or has this rifle had a hard life?
The L85A3, as British as the Royal Family. As in half German.
We're all "part german"!!! Where TF do you think 'Anglo-Saxon' comes from?
The Angle and Saxon tribes of Southern Denmark and Northern Germany!! SMH
So your father was German, you're half German and you married a German...
@@DavidLee-df888 I'm as British as Queen Victoria!
bore off
SUSATs are 100% still in service and A3s are becoming far more widespread, Engineer units are now equipped with them. They're also being issued with the same Grippod foregrips.
2:05 That some were willing to stick with KeyMod until such a late time despite the American experiments showing its inferiority being published way back in the spring of 2017 baffles me to this day.
8:13 Who's stuck with irons? I've heard it claimed that naval base security personnel weren't allowed to have SUSAT due to limitations on the use of tritium near nuclear submarines, but given that LDS was adopted way back in 2011 or so I'm not sure whether this is still relevant.
20:59 ...And the price tag was reportedly accordingly Gucci as well.
HKey is purportedly stronger with the slots deeper and spaced further apart
Do we have any information as to why some black A3 uppers were put into service ahead of the A3 proper? Presumably the black A3 uppers were then removed, cerakoted, and had the new rail welded on when the whole rifle went in for A3 upgrade.
Because as John said, it was incremental upgrade to the upper. But at the time the Army was still flirting with the idea of replacing the SA80. But went with the stupid idea to upgrade the A2 (Cost saving). The black A3 uppers are still on A2 rifles as a technological upgrade to the A2 and to bring it inline with the A3. Because lots of the A2s will not be upgraded to the A3 standard.
It is fascinating how much Pride plays a role in this whole sordid affair. On the one level, the British Army was too proud to keep using a foreign firearm after decades of successful service by the Belgian light automatic rifle. On the other hand, the British Government was too proud to admit that it didn't actually know HOW to design a modern firearm anymore. In turn, the British Army was too proud to admit that the gun that British designers gave them was not remotely competitive with most any foreign design extant.
Pride goeth before the fall, or in this case, before a very long and tedious process of correction for errors that were almost all avoidable.
Even in A1 guise the SA80 is a very accurate rifle, unfortunately it was designed and built on the cheap and they given to a workforce who knew it was their last job before redundancy to build.
I never had any problems with the A1 although I did only use it in the environment for which it was designed, Western Europe.
Don’t forget the M16 had many of the same issues when first introduced.
@@Jabber-ig3iw Mind, the M16 itself was actually not a particularly flawed or unreliable design. Most all the serious problems were the result of user errors by the US Army AFTER adoption, mostly related to using using a different propellant in the ammunition without proper testing, resulting in fouling problems that didn't exist with the correct ammunition. M16, when maintained as intended by the designers and using the correct ammunition ran very well.
SA80's issues were far more fundamental to the gun's core mechanics, hence the long and bitter process to make the gun competitive with existing designs.
@@genericpersonx333 OK, but what about the M14? How long did some in the US Army spend trying to find that "battle rifle" a new niche just to justify its existence and not admit that digging their heels in and snubbing the FAL or similar system was just basic hubris?
@@genericpersonx333 my experience of the SA80 was it worked perfectly fine in the environment it was designed for, Europe. Unfortunately it wasn’t much good in the desert and jungle. I always found slightly less oil than recommended was the way to go, it was very accurate, and I had very few stoppages, we did hate the magazines, they were garbage.
"too proud to keep using a foreign firearm after decades of successful service by the Belgian light automatic rifle" Really? {'Semi-automatic'}
There is a BFA for the Surefire flash suppressor, but the MOD was to cheap to purchase them at a MRSP of $2-300 USD or it was just coming out for issue.
Given that the price tag for the A3 upgrade is said to be astronomical (£75 million for 44 thousand rifles), one can see why they were penny-pinching. Of course, nowadays the priorities are different, hence why you get 10 thousand L403A1 rifles with sights & accessories for £90 million (and in 10 years time) courtesy of KAC & Edgar Bros. Choose your poison, as they say.
It would be good to see the cadet version 😊
Nobody cares.
The originals with the rounded cocking handle always got double feed jams, the H&K ones with the curved cocking handle I never had a problem with,
A millitary battle rifle that can not be fired right and left handed is a bag of nails. I can shoot right or left handed, and in Ulster I always sat rear left in the Rover.
Lots of weapons are fired from the right shoulder only. Anti tank weapons, support weapons..
@@matthewnewell4517those weapons aren't intended to be used in cqc. Switching shoulders in those situations can save your life
@@kalsabrain1370 It's a short, compact weapon, it's ideal for CQB. But what do I know? I've only served in the first Gulf War, then Iraq again, then Afghanistan, and many other places.
@@matthewnewell4517 I 100% agree. Compactness is one of the best things about bullpups. But not being able to aim properly when firing leftie isn't ideal
@@kalsabrain1370 You don't fire it from the left shoulder.
awesome episode. thanks