Why Zapmap Is Misleading Drivers... And Hurting The EV Charging Market
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- EV charging prices are coming down... but you wouldn't know that from checking out Zapmap. And what's worse is that even the UK government uses it to understand the EV charging market. So to find out what's REALLY going on, stick around as Dave Takes It On.
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ZapMap, they have Wykeham village high street with a charger....I went to check it out and found its a Defibulator ...free to use though !!!!
I'd probably need it after arriving with 2% charge! :)
🤣😂🤣
Their heart was in the right place though😂
It will start you in an emergency.
@@stevenbarrett7648 If there was an Instavolt charger you may have needed it.
Well said Dave. Prices did go up as energy prices increased and they must come down as energy prices have.
I always thought that Zap-Map need a filter with a price slider. Not just 'Free' or 'Paid'.
I ask Zapmap to include a price filter more than a year ago. Needless to say there has been no reply.
Agree , ABRP doesn’t either
@@malcolmsutton6740I asked them a few weeks ago about a price filter they said it would be added to their suggestions list. I won’t hold my breath.
For what purpose? Wouldn't you just choose the cheaper one anyway?
@@Chris-lr2qb To eliminate all the chargers over a certain amount.
Wow,
Zapmap...!! I would never have guessed. I always believe Zapmap was the market leader.... I stand corrected... Thanks Dave..👍
yeah, a bit of a wake up call I'd say.....and thanks Dave.......
They were but money talks and now they are just a business interested purely in profit.
Quality bit of journalism that Dave. I don't think anyone else has made a video like this, obviously no tabloids or MSM will report it. I'm an EV owner and had no idea, but I never use a public charger.
We need to have a scheme to allow all to charge at home even with on street parking - allowing cheap charging for all. Some councils say No under any circumstances where others say yes - if you pay for an approved solution. It will do away with all this need for rip off public charging unless your on a road trip.
Well done dave keep us posted on the price war it's the most important part of the ev charging revolution
Love you Dave “supermarkets will pass the soup..” 😂 keep up the good work, apps needed to keep prices low it seems and sadly Zapmap has slipped down my list of go to apps. Tesla, ABRP and Electroverse preferred
Interesting Dave. I live in Northern Ireland. I’m out in the sticks but in my 2 local villages there’s an ESB 22kw AC charger.
In our nearest town 12 miles away there’s several rapids inc a brand new hub with 220Kw DC.
Not one appears on ZapMap. 😩
Brilliant Dave! Excellent content. No fills. Expertly delivered 👏👏👏
I avoid high cost chargers like the plague!
Sainsburys is not 65p it’s 75p and always has been. Charged at kings lynn today
It ought to be fairly simple to provide a list sorted on price. You used to be able to get that for fuel forecourts, so unless ZM have sold out, it should be possible.
But EV drivers are obviously fairly naïve. Drove round a shopping centre recently with a host of networks (Gridserve, Instavolt, BP Pulse, etc). looking for Tesla public. Found it! But surprised how many were using the much more expensive, lower power, chargers.
Price is less of an issue if you are using a company 'fuel card', and I doubt that this type of card would even work with Tesla chargers. The other issue with Tesla chargers if you aren't driving a Tesla is the position of the charger port, if it is on the 'wrong' side and the chargers are busy you may not be able to get a space to charge.
Where are the 65p chargers at Sainsbury’s? Charged today at Fosse park Leicester, I was charged 75p. My local site Harrogate still charges 75p!!!
None of the Sainsbury’s or Lidl around me have any chargers ☹️
Yeah he's made a mistake
please dont ever defend any form of subscriber prices, ICE drivers dont have to put up with such nonsense or confusion and nor should EV ones. The comparisons should all be for the pay as you go contactless prices because thats all most users especially those who predominantly charge from home will ever use.
I charge at Ionity with the £10 subscription at 43p and my other go-to is Tesla off the M8 for 40-45p. Tesco is about 45p via podpoint and chargeplace scotland is 40pAC or 50p rapid (except Glasgow)
Thanks Dave for all your efforts in finding the info in all your videos, you have made it so easy to make the decision to buy my first EV 😊 keep up the good work 👍🏻
I used a BP pulse in York (Monks Cross)today. Its was a 50kw and it was 59p kw, as advertised on a roadside led sign. 😃😃⚡
I have had multiple disputes with ZM due to their totally misleading information. Chargers not working and prices wrong + other problems.
ESB are almost the only charging network in Northern Ireland, so it makes sense that they are mentioned, as none of the other networks actually have chargers here, and since they speak about the UK as a whole, they must include the main networks from each region. They are also the biggest charging network in Ireland by a long way.
It should be more transparent however, as for someone in England, it would be almost useless signing up for an ESB account.
Oh, and price wise, ESB charge 56ppkwh for 50kw and 46ppkwh for AC22 (for subscribers, it's 3ppkwh higher for pay as you go), and there is a 25p connection fee. There are almost no chargers over 50kw in Northern Ireland. There is a BP Pulse 185kw, but they charge 88ppkwh unless you sign up to their subscription, then it is 79ppkwh. If you are a Motability user, and download the app they suggest you to download (at least in Northern Ireland), we are charged a higher rate than if you just do the pay as you go for each charger.
Google maps is good on charger locations etc. I noticed Zap-Map was limited with info, and I don't even have an EV!
Sainsbury's is 75p with a £75 pre authorisation fee not 65p as far as I can tell.
They are also only planning to install 750 chargers shared across 100 stores. They have no announced plans to extend this to the other 500 large stores yet.
The website states maximum 75p and several viewers have reported they only paid 65p,so possibly they vary prices depending on local competition just like they do with petrol. 100 stores with 6-10 chargers each is still a massive network. It would be impractical to install all stores immediately, so hope this is just the start.
It seems that Zapmap are calculating a price weighted by number of chargepoints. To be accurate they should calculate a price weighed by the energy dispensed. Case in point is my local Shell station. Last year it ripped out 4 of the 8 pumps and replaced them with 9 ultra rapid (well 150kW) chargepoints. I think that the most I have seen in operation is 4 at one time and often there is no vehicle charging at all. If you weight the price by number of devices then Shell will feature heavily but if it was weighed by energy dispensed they will hardly figure.
The ever increasing cost of charging is down to the fact that BEV sales have slowed down. Those charging stations require a certain level of through put to make money. If the number of charging sessions decreases then the charge itself has to cover the shortfall. New charging facilities are likely to be postponed until BEV sales increase. Obviously, if they get taxpayer money, those installations would be completed and then mothballed…?
Strange then that there are far more EVs on the road than ever. The real reason is investors see charging as a cash cow and hike up the price to the maximum they can get away with. Pure rip off
@@davetakesitonof course there are more on the road. It’s the rate at which the numbers are growing which causes the problem! Are you turning into Joe Biden ..?
Will ZapMap give you an interview I wonder... :) As you know ICE cars are lucky to get 40MPG Petrol and most Diesels are 45MPG so price per mile is in fact higher for them...
I’m not so sure at the moment my diesel at 45mpg works out at about 15p per mile, if we charged our ID.3 at 70-80p per kwhr this would work out closer to 20p per mile, it needs to be less than 50-60p to compete, which is rare, for high speed chargers anyway. Thankfully we don’t have to use public charging but it isn’t really cost effective. This article is an eye opener though, ZM aren’t keeping up obviously.
Diesels are well above 45mpg. The average diesel saloon will easily return 50-55mpg with smaller ones like mini you’ll easily get 60mpg plus.
A diesel hybrid will give most drivers the equivalent of 80-100 mpg
I just wish one day mfg can be as cheap as Tesla, mfg are everywhere and at least you get facilities, toilet etc
Perhaps all those who encounter lidl free chargers (or any other flavour free chargers) report in to Dave so perhaps he could do a weekly round-up of free chargers video.
I’ve never understood why people use Zapmap.
Installed it but never used it. I have my preferred chargers now, just as I had my preferred petrol stations. I just use these. Mostly open Tesla chargers across the country, but occasionally, FastNed and rarely Ionity and MERS in Dorset.
I gave it up ages ago. It's really clunky to use.
WattsUp and Chargemap were faster and easier for route planning 2 years ago.
If these apps were for consumers you would be able to sort by price, but you can't
Great article Dave, a real eye-opener, either ZM have a vested interest in presenting information in the way they do or their systems aren’t set up to get the realtime dynamic pricing from all the providers. Either way it isn’t good enough. Maybe a subject for another day but at anything over 60p per kwhr our ID.3 costs more per mile than my 45mpg diesel, it is only cost effective because we charge at home. Bear in mind that half the cost of diesel is tax, and the government makes around £35 billion from fuel duty. They only get the VAT on electricity, significantly less. They will need to replace that tax somehow, hence the current discussions about pence per mile road pricing. So EV drivers who use the public networks are paying more, or at least no less than ICE cars and yet will need to additionally pay per mile in the future. There’s a problem brewing - the underlying cost of electricity is more than diesel/petrol and only the tax saving makes it worthwhile - and this will change.
Why are ZapMap trying to skew the figures?
Does it serve them in some way, or are they being 'paid' to promote one CPO over another?
The cheapest I've this week was 55p (just 22kW) but typically it's been 79/89p and even £1 per kW!
Hi Dave, I live in Middlesbrough in the north east and I use blink for fast charging at 53p kWh it's in a nice park so I walk the dog and it gives me 150 miles for a hours charge. Mer is another one in a hospital near me used to be free but now charge 39p kWh but only at 22kwh and my Hyundai Kona chargers at 11kwh but I can walk the dog and go home and collect the hours later.
Yes Chris, no single answer for everyone just find what works for you, plus you get exercise; I could do with more of that
I visited Trentham on our way to the lake district and on the way back yesterday in my non-Tesla. Fastest handshake using the app compared to Swarco, genie, Ionity and Gridserve.. and of course the cheapest
Keep up the good work, FYI I was in Colwyn Bay yesterday and there has been loads of slow Pod Point chargers installed along the front must have 20 plus ideal for location, but not commissioned as yet and nearly all the parking spaces with ICE cars in them, I assume the Traffic Ward will have fun once they are on line. Also on the way back I called in to try out Flint Mountain Tesla Chargers that are open to all, on entering the part park I never got to see them as was meet with the longest line of Model Ys I have seen together 😂. Luckily I didn’t need a charge just wanted to test the app process before I needed it in anger being not a Tesla owner.
Still too expensive and memberships aren't appropriate for many.
Like everything in life, zapmap could be improved but in general they are a perfectly reasonable resource for EV drivers. The new Ionity charging station in Lancaster for example which opened this week is already showing on their map so perhaps give them a break and accept that if you aren't paying for the service don't expect too much.
Well done. I said it before and I will say it again. There are price comparison websites for petrol and diesel prices, you should look into setting your own price comparison app for EVs. I bet people would update the prices regularly.
Sainbury's Plymouth are charging 79p kWh. Looking forward the Tesco's opening up there chargers in the near future.
For at least a year Zapmap have been in the control of their sponsors.
I don't use them anymore as they are truly awful, shame as they were the go to app.
Who pays for Zapmap? Presumably they sell advertising to charging networks, and if ESB threw them a bung they might promote their network above say Shell…
Cheapest i found was my solar
But you had to pay for the solar
Well done you, 10 points
What a joke. Look at the distribution of Lidl's charger locations 🤣🤣🤣
brilliant well done and thanks
well done Dave, you're a star.
Tbf I think this is massively dependent on where you are. Nearly every charger in my area is between 45p to 85p per kWh. I’d have to drive 20 mins to find the nearest town that has anything near the prices you’re quoting.
Heck I’ve just found a place that is supposedly charging 90p per kWh for 7kwh speeds. Though pinch of salt as that price is from Zapmap 😂
Same where i live, nearest Tesla chargers over 20 miles away
InstaVolt at 85p it’s a wonder anyone ever uses them. Love the Gridserve at 63p so hoping it stays even as a membership. Bonnet/OVO app gets me Morrisons for 64p so not too bad. Wish Costco Chester or Liverpool would oblige though! An open to all Tesla for Liverpool I wouldn’t complain about either!
Tesla has two supercharger installations opening in Liverpool, Broad Green at the end of the M62 scheduled to open this year and another on Edge Lane with no firm date. Wish granted
@@davetakesitonexcellent news! Hopefully one will be open to all. Hopefully see you as well when Walton Sunmit finally opens!
Why should ZapMap's price include a *temporary* app-payment discount (which BTW was launched in *July*, when their index is for June's pricing).
In fact, why should it include any membership schemes? It's an index for the drive-up pricing to be paid at public chargers. We pushed for years to get networks to instate contactless payments, so that people would not have to download apps and sign up for accounts just to charge their vehicle. That is the standard pricing that should be indexed.
It's not "misleading", it's just not built for what *you* think it should do.
So are the top ten on zapmap those that are on there Zap pay ?
It was about time that the prices fell, you can't fool us EV drivers what the price of juice is. Now we know that in the winter of 2022/3 the price paid by business users was not helped by any Ofgem skulduggery or subsidy and prices in excess of 50p a kWh were being levied on some of the CPOs. But the price has obviously fallen back and whilst we might be hopeful to see 39p a kWh again (the price at MSAs in 2020) given the 20% VAT levied it is reasonable to expect prices fall a but further than the 65p which seems to be the mid mark at the just turn up pumps rate. We all want to see the CPOs make a profit and the chargers used heavily. With EV sales holding up fairly well there will be more and more on the road and now the horror stories of broken chargers wrecking a journey now over, folks will be confident to make long journeys. I have a vision that electricity prices will fall to about 18-20p a kWh for domestic users and that heavy business users who can help with Time Of Use and load shifting might get electricity for part of the day for less than 15p In which case we may well see average prices of 45p or thereabouts at the chargers.
I cannot see prices dropping at all now or in the future, CPO,s will just rip the consumers off just like the oil companies do, they are just cartels and is there going to be any government regulation to protect the consumers ?
I was looking at an EV but think I’ll stick to my ICE diesel.
There isn’t a price war..it’s just a summer promotion. For some reason you keep going on about it as if that will make it happen…🤦♂️
Pricing is a lot more dynamic than it was a few years ago. Personally I stopped using gridservre when they raised the price.
Either way, you missed the point of the video.
Dave, is there somewhere I can send you a video, a pic or two and a story that you may be able to use as content? Ta. To do with charging and councils dumping their vehicles on public chargers for the weekend.
Yes please, use my email davetakesiton@gmail.com
It certainly does seem more expensive than they need to be but I'm guessing the high price is to put more chargers into service or is it just pure profit ? Like another tax
I've used ZapMap to see what's available on a trip.
It's usually out of date, doesn't show the number of free chargers or whether they're actually working.
Pretty bad really.
Beginning to look like Zap Map is. sponsored by the charge point operators they seem to promote !
And on another subject about petrol prices, it looks like the price of fuel is not as low as it should, could this possibly be because there are less ICE vehicles ?
As the volume of ice fuel gets less and less I suspect that the price will increase to maintain profit.
A challenge for you Dave. Find these FREE Aldi chargers. Then see if you can charge on one? ALL local Aldi round here are not free, are lucky if you can get on one, if you are lucky to find one working.
My Aldi are working and available but sadly not free.
Aldi Scarborough 20 mins free
I know of an Aldi where the charging is free but as it is close to the town centre you have to pay to park and the two chargers are 7kW.
@@stevenbarrett7648 with 5 or 6 waiting 🤣
Someone paid 93p a Kwh on a Shell today, in a group I follow on Facebook and asking if his pants had been pulled down LOLOL
I see that Good Energy are BIG (49.9%) investors in ZapMap. Not sure if this has any influence on the way ZapMap shows it’s data analysis?
Zap map are an aggregator with deals on information with all the CPOs so they dont want to focus on the prices as they want a cut from everyone via zap pay and zap map premium.
ESB operate all the chargers in the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland - they're the state run energy company in Ireland. Not sure why you've never heard of them. Sainsburys sites never ahd chargers before, so very misleading to say they have brought the service in house.
Nobody Knows Why Liars lie - Katt Williams
My local EV Point cost 55P a KWH but only one Charger
DAVE are you aware of the new Tesla superchargers at White City M&S, near Old Trafford football ground?
Yes, last time I checked they are no closer to opening than the V4s at Manchester City Emirates stadium or Walton Summit Holiday Inn.
Cant see anything about 50kW, which you need for on the go as oppose to destination charging, for less than 70p/kWh, especially if sticking to the major routes
I know petrol/diesel is always more expensive at the services, so the average cost there would be higher than the national average, and it'll always be the same for electric, so you can't say Zapmap is inaccurate when it's clearly aimed at route planning, not your nearest cheap/free charger where it would take several hours to charge a car.
Great video
Good video... but Tesla superchargers are not contactless, you can't "swipe your card", you need the Tesla app.
Not true, the whole point of releasing the V4 chargers was so that you could swipe your contactless. They have a screen and a contactless terminal. Only older V2 and V3 chargers installed before "opening to all" need the app.
I stand corrected.. However, there are V3 chargers open-to-all... hence my comment
*many V3...
Never use Zapmap. Always looked rubbish
Pedantic point 1400 & 6000 are the same order of magnitude 1400 = 1.4 × 10³ 6000 = 6.0 × 10³ Sorry I now hate myself :) but, your points are spot on
I stand corrected, I often get carried away
@@davetakesiton Please continue to get carried away :) the passion makes the channel!
Top Lad cheers Dave :)
The Zapmap App is very good, but agreed their price references are way out of date. Maybe they do it deliberately!
Cheers Dave
appreciate the video Dave and probably zap-map are wrong here, but I have to say in my particular world that this lowering of rapid DC prices has been non-existent, let me explain: I don't use the car very much as I cycle most places locally. When I do short trips I can fill up at home (25p/ kWh, no I can't do it cheaper, for other complicated reasons). I regularly visit my mum a 240mile trip away though (e.g. once per month). In my Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh battery this means 2 charges on the road each way. The route is mainly along the M40 and the M1, then along the A168. I have experimented with not using the motorway services, going slightly off the motorway etc. I've tried squeezing out the range till I get to the one service station near Thirsk on the A168, no joy that's Shell Recharge, charged me £0.85 yesterday. Anyway, all the ones I've tried along this route or within about 5 miles of it, the absolute cheapest I have ever seen was BP pulse at 75p (this involved a 3 mile diversion off the M1 near Nottingham / Long Eaton to get to). So whilst I agree the picture nationwide is getting better, the situation for those of us with shorter range EVs but who still need to do motorway long hauls relatively regularly is still quite bleak.
I've noticed though that recently some welcome break and moto services (e.g. I am thinking of Donington services) have been installing non gridserve chargers alongside the gridserve ones, breaking the gridserve monopoly. This is excellent news!
@plasteredparrot Gridserve is currently 63p per kwh for rapid at the moment if you charge through their app (20% off). Not a long term solution but hopefully might save you some pennies until the promo ends
@@feline-fox thanks for this. I know I could save quite a few pence here and there with all the apps but to be honest, whilst I'm totally willing to take the convenience hit of regularly driving a 150 miles range EV 250 miles, I somehow irrationally feel hatred towards having to have 50 apps to just charge the damn thing
There's a lot of confusion about charging non-Tesla cars on Tesla chargers.
Take my MG ZS EV. Some people say that they have successfully charged their cars and then you get the tales of the charger bricking their car. Some say you need a software update. I won't risk it, just in case it does damage the car.
Aldi Scarborough offers 20 mins of free charging, nothing to stop you unplugging and plugging back on again either !
Thanks Steven, welcome news indeed
Pod points in Tesco allow 15ins free charging.
@@ziggarillo not anymore as it was costing Tesco loads, it's 5 mins now
Prices are coming down but not fast enough for me so I've just ordered a Tesla 😊
Anything over 60p is theft! And I would rather let it run out and push it home than use an oil charger🙄And well done Tesla👍
Very disappointing that ZM seem to be selling out to a handful companies and giving us misleading info. I’ll not be renewing my subscription and also will give some direct feedback, when I visit the Fully Charged show later this year, as they tend to have a presence at these shows. Thanks Dave for highlighting this sorry state from Zapmap.
You are aware I assume that there is currently some outrage from the ICE-supporting motorist organisations about price gouging from supermarkets?
Amazes me that people in Leicester are queuing for petrol. Just get an EV. You get much cheaper fuel without queues.
The Tesla superchargers have a higher price during 10-5pm (e.g. 61p) which is surely when most charging occurs, so surely the 55p stated (as an average) isn’t that inaccurate?
My 2 nearest superchargers for non Tesla are 51p and 55p peak according to the Tesla app.
UK most expensive country to DC fast charge an EV. Driven through 7 countries from Europe to the UK. Prices must come down !
I agree. France was a dream for EV charging, and cheap to boot!
Yes it is not surprising really UK most expensive and they wonder why people are reluctant to go EV.
I agree Zap map needs to work to get their pricing info right. When prices were increasing they were very slow to reflect this too. On the specifics I wonder if ESB installations included their Republic of Ireland installs. They seemed to be big there. More generally I feel you should NOT be suggesting prices paid by members should be reflected in PAYG surveys. Like you we generally charge at home so when away almost by definition we will be using a variety of CPOs. It is not practical and it would be expensive in time and money to join all of them we use. I feel you should only talk about prices for non members when discussing a price war.
Having said that as a result of watching your videos we joined the Tesla scheme for a month’s holiday in Germany and save a small fortune. We did find a location where it really was not possible to get our car charging (we have an e-niro) as we would have blocked the road as the lead was so short the car had to be protruding into the access road.
So what you're ay is your right everyone else is wrong. Marvellous. Average is high and low. There are more high than low, that's how you get the average.
Dave your audio is clicking and buzzing again just thought you should know
0:55 57~80p/kwh? How much is Gasoline/Diesel there?
My EV SUV consumes on average 13kwh per 100km. And my Gasoline and Diesel consumes 8.5L of petrol per 100km as well.
It is a no brainer I would keep using my EV than out ICE cars (which now sits idle for 3+ months now).
petrol about £1.50 / litre. Diesel slightly but not much more expensive
Could you not get in touch with Zapmap about this please. They need to sort this out by stop this act of misinformation
Incisive comments Dave - how can UK govt use such skewed stats? As for the MSM, no research just chasing clicks - see Giles Coren. Keep up the good work. All the best, Brendan.
They all need that bit more 😆
For a start if EVery one who's downloaded Zapmap were to down-rate the app with one star the reasons of poor coverage of networks and accurate low pricing on the relevant application store, that may make the software teams think!
Blackburns Issa brothers who own asda are still bumming their petrol and diesel...
No sign of chargers at their supermarkets that I know of..
Boycott asda until they get cheap charging.
Cock up or conspiracy; is there some sponsorship or advertising conflict of interest at work
stingray stingray quote at end hehehe.
yes but of course fools like the mcmaster will still use the very high priced ones in his video as he hates evs
Well spotted or sorry nostalgia
@@davetakesiton
Wasn't it Commander Shore who said Stand by for action, anything can happen in the next half hour" while Troy, Phones and Marina were rapidly descending down to Stingray?
Apart from that very interesting.
Something I havn't seen any comments about is the change in price for the on street lampost chargers. In Wandsworth Before April they were run by Ubitricity at 24p per KW, then they were then handled by Shell Recharge when they went to 53/45p on/off peak. Now with char.gy at 39p. Better than Shell but still a 50% price hike from Ubitricity!
This is a real pain for those of us who don't have off street parking.
Hello mate
Zapmap? Who? Just another useless app