I always liked Shamrock in WWF. It's somewhat crazy to think he was in WWF for only two and a half years. It felt like he was there for so much longer than that.
Things moved much faster in the Attitude era, so it seemed much longer than it was. WWF in 1997 and WWF in 2000 is like worlds apart. Plus when we were younger, time seemed to go by slower. High school seemed to last forever. Now, as I stand on the precipice of middle age, 4 years is nothing.
I got to meet Ken while he was doing motion capture for a friend's wrestling game; he was extremely friendly and grateful for all the praise we had! True legend and class act. He's still in phenomenal shape and was busting out submissions like crazy lol.
His match with Undertaker was a dud at that years Backlash, if it had gone better (heavily promoted semi-main event) that would have been different, but there was crickets. Ken needed that to go better than Taker, Taker was so unharmed by it he was champ a month later. You can only blame creative so much, Taker and Ken devised a match that basically shat the bed.
Ken was unreliable & no showed a lot of dates. Most other talent would’ve been fired on the spot. But WWE invested a lot in Shamrock, so he was given multiple chances. Ken is his own worst enemy.
Once the Attitude Era ended and then Reliving it again, it still urks me on how much potential Shamrock had that was overlooked and not taking full advantage of who he was and could be. He was of course ahead of his time, in a highly talented and competitive locker room.
Man I really hope it's not forgotten or undervalued, how Brett really acted as a backstage leader for the boys. 5:44 Looking out for Ken, with such solid advice, in reference to Micheals and Vader botch stiff incident and politics. But also just solid advice that would help Ken in how he works in the future regardless of promotion.
He kind of paved the way for Kurt Angle. Shamrock's run popularized "tapping out" to be the way wrestlers submitted to hold in pro wrestling matches and Kurt adopted the anklelock.
@@dallasparty316 While Ken wasn't the first to introduce tapping out to pro wrestling as a whole (Taz was doing it in ECW, for example), he is officially credited as the one who introduced it to WWE, so it's true. Prior to Ken all submissions required verbal submission only, and you could even see matches pre-Ken where wrestlers looked to be tapping out (like Bret vs. Owen at Mania X), but it wasn't counted as such until Ken debuted.
Ur dedication to this channel is to be admired,the RTW series has bn amazing,I never watched wcw,always was a wwf guy ( took me 6 months to get over screwjob ) so to see the war transpire over the weeks has bn amazing,kp up the good work god bless
Ken simply was there when the top of the roster was packed with household names. He came onto the scene just as Austin was breaking out into the next megastar, then you had other top guys like Bret/HBK/The Rock/Mankind/Undertaker who were all very much relevant for the duration of his run at one point or another. If he had come along later or maybe even earlier I can definitely see him getting a World title run, but the main event pool was just so deep when he was in the WWF. Also, it was during an era where mic skills were at a premium and that just wasn't a strong part of his skill set. Shamrock still had a very successful and very memorable run. Like others have already said, he was only with the company for about 2.5 years although it felt like he was there for a lot longer.
@@lexkanyima2195 He was always in the upper midcard and was enough of name brand where they could occasionally slot him into a main event when needed. Again, he had a really solid run despite a relatively brief run. He just wasn't ever going to be THE guy in that era.
Thanks for this. Shamrock was and still is one of my favorite wrestlers. They really _did_ drop the ball on him. I still dream of the alternate timeline where he stayed and had matches with Angle, Tazz, Eddie, Benoit and others.
I remember telling ken shamrock this on his Facebook page years ago. And how underatted he was and why he should've had a ppv program with guys like steve austin and triple h. And he agreed with me while responding even he said the wwe dropped the ball with a austin shamrock program which he said he pitched but vince McMahon shot it down and wanted him to still do the matches he did at the time.
He's an unsung hero of the Attitude Era as for a long time WWE didnt tend to acknowledge him, I hope he gets put in the HOF next year, especially since Mania is in Vegas and he lives in Reno and with TKO merger it would make sense. I wish he did come back from his injuries rather than go back to MMA, just think of the dream matches he wouldve had in 2000. He was backstage at Wrestlemania 18 in 2002 and was in talks to return but he only wanted to work part time and Vince wouldn't let him so he went to TNA instead.
So underrated. Ken should've been a hofer..they dropped the ball for sure. He could go in the ring and he left right before guys who worked his style cane in.
One of the guys who got me back in to wrestling, loved him. He came off like a main eventer to me, it just hadn't happened yet. Him leaving was a shock, massive star in my eyes.
The effects of Montreal on Ken is an interesting side effect. People get annoyed at how much the Montreal Screwjob gets talked about but the ripples of that really were hard to overstate, and it could have been more from many other wrestlers reportedly felt betrayed.
Shamrock's clear weakness was his promos, I'm not saying he couldn't talk at all but Attitude main eventers had to be top tier soundbite guys, Kane being the notable exception in those days.
I agree. All of the top guys back then (except Kane) could cut a great promo. Wrestling is a TV show at the end of the day. Promo's are the difference between mid card and top guy.
I actually met Ken once. It was probably around 10 years ago now. I was working in the security career field, and so was he at the time. My father was a huge fan of his, so i went and spoke to him for a few minutes and got a picture/signature. He seemed like a very serious but cordial individual. I asked him, "How is protecting famous rappers treating you?" He formed a sly grin and said "Ka-Chinggg" while rubbing his fingers together. We were joking and laughing the entire time (maybe 10-15 mins). I hope he and his wife are doing well. He's an absolute pioneer of MMA (especially his time in Pancrase). His legend, his story, will be remembered long after he is gone.
While I can agree that the WWF didn't fully deliver when it came to Ken Shamrock, I think blaming it mostly on the WWF itself is a bit much. Ken was really, more often than not, a victim of timing. He had moved back to pro wrestling in 1996 he could have been even more of a trailblazer & would have easily fit into the main event during 1997 (maybe even becoming WWF Champion instead of Taker) after establishing himself for a year, while had he debuted in 1998 or 1999 he would have later had amazing technical matches with Kurt Angle, any of the Radicalz, Tazz, etc in 2000/2001. However, when Ken actually debuted the main event was continually stacked beyond belief, whether it was Bret, Shawn, & Taker as Ken was on the rise in 1997, any combination of Austin, Foley, Taker, Kane, & eventually Rock during 1998, or Austin, Rock, Triple H, Foley, & Taker in 1999. There was simply no place for Ken to believably become WWF Champion during those years. Maybe had he stuck around & re-signed to be around for 2000 then he could have found himself a short reign between the various Rock & Triple H reigns that year, but that's really it. However, to try to even insinuate that Billy Gunn was treated better as King of the Ring than Ken Shamrock is kind of ridiculous. While watching Reliving the War up through Ken's departure one thing that often came to my mind was just how often Ken was continually working, or at least interacting, with main event talent after becoming King in 1998. After finishing the feud with Owen he was up there with Rock & Mankind as next in line for the WWF Title (resulting in the excellent Breakdown cage match), his involvement in the Corporation constantly kept him in the upper midcard & working with main event talent, and while his stuff with Ryan Shamrock, Steve Blackman, & Chris Jericho definitely brought him down the ladder in 1999 he was still working with the main event players in some fashion in between those feuds & felt like he fit in with them. Billy Gunn, in comparison, went straight back to DX stuff after becoming King in 1999, before being forced into working with The Rock (which honestly looked more like a demotion for Rock), not to mention being made to look like a fool when Chyna managed to get herself an IC Title program with Jeff Jarrett, before returning to status quo by reuniting the New Age Outlaws before the year even ended.
The only thing about his run that sucked was that it ended imo. Everybody seemed to like him, just not when he was put in mic battles with the top tier guys. V
Turning him heel is the reason why people blame WWF. It was absolutely the wrong decision and made no sense. People loved cheering him. Watch his kotr fijal match vs Rock. The pop Ken got is insane. 3 months later he’s a heel and both Rock and Foley outshined him in the triple threat match.
@@cyrus2546 Him turning heel was perfect, the people had suddenly turned on Ken because he was in a 3 way feud with Rock and Mankind and they were loving them so much at the time that they just booed Shamrock by proxy. If there was a right time to do something like turn him heel, that was the time.
I always wanted to see Shamrock vs Goldberg as part of the Invasion storyline: WWF are losing, Bischoff has brought the nWo back as a mercenary group to aid WCW and Goldberg has taken down WWFs best up to this point. Bischoff taunts McMahon that he's got nobody left to challenge Goldberg and then Ken's music hits...
Man, I loved Ken Shamrock! That was my dude during the Attitude Era! He was one of my favorites! That man deserves to be in more WWE games, more wrestling figures and a HOF induction! 😃 25 years later and I'm still mad about him leaving WWE. I never got my dream match with Ken Shamrock vs. Kurt Angle 😞
What a great video. Having watching the Attitude Era live as it happened, I've had a lot of opinions that I thought were set in stone. Reliving The War and videos like this have really caused me to re think a lot of what I thought I knew.
I always liked Shamrock, it is a shame that he really got lost in the shuffle. They could have done a lot more with him, he had legitimacy with his character. If he had stuck around we could have seen him have matches with Angle, Benoit, Eddie too.
💯 agree, I think the main problem was his promos where so so and he kind of got lost in the shuffle; to be fair the talent at that time was pretty unbelievable
Was always a big fan when he was in wwf but didn’t realize how they didn’t utilize him. Until I got older. One of those things you miss as a kid. Hadn’t ever seen that clip of him about the screw job with his thoughts and feelings. Interesting to hear his side of things as someone that was part of Bret’s crew. And how it also shifted his thought process to things prior and what could happen in the future.
Ken shamrock a badass in the ring, had an awesome entrance theme, he wasn't a promo guy but he could kick anyone's ass. Truly the world's most dangerous man and the number 1 guy in my boy stable.
Shamrock was and is a better version of Bill Goldberg. I'm not saying that to trash Goldberg, instead i'm merely suggesting that the WWF should've booked him like Bill and he could've been a main-event player.
It's a bit harsh to say they dropped the ball. After SummerSlam they were pretty much doing a big push to send Rock, Foley and Shamrock in to the main event picture, but while The Rock just started getting crazy pops, and Foley kept introducing little quirks he was so good at on the reg (most notably Mr. Socko), Shamrock seemed bland in comparison, and they started booing him. Thought the move to make him the Corporations hitman was an inspired move, but that wasn't the plan at all it just made sense because he was getting heel heat anyway, which wasn't supposed to happen.
Ken Shamrock is someone I've always wanted to be a surprise entrant in a Royal Rumble because we haven't seen him in WWE whatsoever for over 25 years!!! Even if he's in the Rumble for something like 8 minutes and he has a fun spot staring down another badass brawler guy and clashes with them. It doesn't seem very likely at all now but I really wish he'd been in a Rumble over the last 10-15 years, he should definitely be in the WWE Hall of Fame too.
WWF is a TV show, like every other TV show. People don't get promoted based on their credentials, they get promoted based on their tv presence. I loved Blackman but he didn't come in to his own until he became hardcore champ, and the hardcore scene... Wasn't exactly main event level y'know?
@@WesleyWilkins-qf2kyPeople seem to think that because a guy could get a pop that means they should be in the main event people don't realize that back then everybody was over to some degree and could get a pop
With the right booking Shamrock could've been the WWF's answer to Goldberg. He had a legit background, was intense in the ring, and was a better worker than Goldberg ever was. It's just a shame he got lost in the shuffle, and backstage politicking of that era. He should've been in that mix between Austin, Rock and HHH as one of the top guys after Bret and Shawn were gone.
Shamrock is one of if not my favorite wrestlers ever. He usually made matches feel very creative, hard hitting/legit, and logical. He and The Rock tore down the house at the 1998 Royal Rumble, had an underrated match with The Undertaker at Backlash '99, and had several other matches that are amongst my favorites.
Interesting perspective, thanks for sharing it, you could've mentioned his limited mic skills though, surely a factor and unless worked on a pretty big obstacle in the Attitude era.
I think a lot of people knew back then that Ken should have been used better! I loved watching Ken kick ass when i was young and you are right they should have just made him this badass who beat up fools and won titles. Certainly should have had a run with the WWF title
Ken Shamrock had all the potential to be the WWF Champion in 1998, as the guy Vince McMahon hires to take out Steve Austin. Even if his run only went from say SummerSlam to the Royal Rumble, or even just Survivor Series. Unfortunately Ken was a victim of both the booking style of the Attitude Era, and his inability to cut promos. If they had him continue to snap and get himself disqualified for not releasing holds or assaulting referees, and paired him up with someone like Jim Cornette to talk for him, negotiate deals, teach him when to bend the rules without breaking them, and get him to stop before he costs himself (and of course in kayfabe, Cornette as well) money through getting fines and suspensions, it would have been a great pairing. Plus if they put him over as a dominant IC Champion, then he would have been easily considered a legitimate threat to Steve Austin when McMahon was looking for someone to get the title off of him in 1998. But like you said, there is always a flip side. If we had got a Ken Shamrock WWF Title run, we likely would never have seen the incredible rise of The Rock, or Mick Foley shocking everyone by winning the WWF Title.
His inability to cut promos hurt him more than anything. Benoit had the same problem but when Benoit won the title in 2004 promo skills weren’t as important as they were in the AE.
My only criticism of the video is after Ken's 1998 KOTR win you said the WWF did absolutely nothing with it; only to skip past September's events where they did push Shamrock into the World Title picture. Sometime after SummerSlam '98, Shamrock confronted Austin for a title shot on Sunday Night Heat. The promo was a huge deal at the time considering how over both were & how unstoppable both were booked for the past year; with neither man having a clean pinfall or submission loss during the 12 months leading into it making the match anyone's game. They then had a main event match the following Raw. Now, I agree, this should have been a PPV rather than free money. But both men made the other look very strong; very back-and-forth, helping Shamrock look like he was on Austin's level. The match was interrupted. Shamrock was then involved in a very good #1 contender's match which included both The Rock & Mankind; keeping Shamrock very close to the title picture. I would imagine these clashes were similar to what WWF did with Luger & Bret at the '94 Rumble, testing the crowd to see who they'd pop for more to decide who'd be the top contender. It didn't last incredibly long, but for a good month, Shamrock was very much pushed into the title picture.
Shamrock is a personal favorite of mine. Top twenty to be exact, while the ball was dropped he indeed had some great moments. My two favorite matches of mine are his against Owen in the Lions den and against Taker at Backlash 99 (a 2000’s technical thriller ahead of its time) I do wish he showed up around 2000 or 2001 instead though as I’m sure he would’ve had great matches with Angle, Jericho, Lesnar, Eddie, and many others. Would’ve been a great time man. To this day in the games he pops up in I make time to play as him and rip some ankles off after some belly to belly’s. I also wonder if his younger brother could’ve ever jumped into the business, he’s my personal favorite MMA fighter ever so I would’ve loved to have seen him in a WWE or maybe even TNA ring. Anyway while a short run Ken was a bit of a trailblazer indeed so I hope to see him inducted in the HOF sometime in the near future
Shamrock was my guy as a kid. His character was legit as I used to watch him in UFC & Pride too. He put on great matches with The Rock who began rooting for during his Nation run.
It still amazes me too how at a time of stables they never thought to have the dojo with Shamrock, Severn & Mu’fugga luckily we’ve got Wrestling Bios to rectify that
Just if he stuck around when Angle, Benoit, Guerrero, Malinko came to wwf then later on Lance Storm, Booker T, Brock Lesnar. Could of seen him in a Tag Team with Chris Benoit with Shane Mcmahon as there manager taking on the likes of The Rock and Undertaker.
Love Ken Shamrock ever since UFC 1. Not sure I realized they softened up his move set because that wild side of his was terrifying. He did not need to work stiff because his character work sort of picked up the slack. Plus, I watch MMA if I want MMA. I watch wrestling because it is wrestling. Never been a fan of the mixed styles because one is real, one is scripted. The hybrid shoot/wrestling match always felt like I was watching the Underfaker because I had already been introduced to MMA.
Agreed, i used to use the video package made for survivor series 97 to show friends a specific clip that was in the HBK-Hitman video, but showed Shamrock reversing the sharpshooter into thd ankle lock and countering Sweet Chin Music into the ankle lock also. I think he should have had atleast one title run, even if as a transitional champ ..
Ken Shamrock was already a superstar before joining the WWE. His matches with Dan Severn were always talked about in school yards back then! I always wanted to see him pushed more into the main event! Imagine if we had gotten him vs Angle, or him vs Lesnar years later!
Dream match- shamrock vs angle. They were only months apart from each other
😢
Yes! I'm still mad that I never got that dream match
That match would have been amazing
Joi
mark booking.
I always liked Shamrock in WWF. It's somewhat crazy to think he was in WWF for only two and a half years. It felt like he was there for so much longer than that.
Wow yea. Looking back on it it seems like way longer then that.
It was such a pivotal time for the company, I always remember him being a mainstay
He was such a big deal the entire time though. He was at the very top of that upper mid card slot.
Things moved much faster in the Attitude era, so it seemed much longer than it was. WWF in 1997 and WWF in 2000 is like worlds apart.
Plus when we were younger, time seemed to go by slower. High school seemed to last forever. Now, as I stand on the precipice of middle age, 4 years is nothing.
@@fattiger6957 Very true. Time goes so much faster when you are older
I got to meet Ken while he was doing motion capture for a friend's wrestling game; he was extremely friendly and grateful for all the praise we had! True legend and class act. He's still in phenomenal shape and was busting out submissions like crazy lol.
Shamrock is one of my favourite all time wrestlers. Loved his attire, his music, the ring style and the feeling that he could snap at any minute.
His second theme.....
Can still hear Lawler and JR freaking out: he snapped!!!
yup
And the KENDO STICKS!!
Ken Shamrock in the ruthless aggression era would have slapped so hard
Facts
Most definitely. That era would fit him perfectly
Never thought about it before but you are so right.
Tazz's suplexes + Shamrock's ankle lock + Patriots entrance music = Kurt Angle
How dare you!
Shamrock was leagues beyond anyone doing the ankle lock.
It's true, it's true.
And I love Angle, but his suplex game wasn't as varied as Taz.
Ken shamrock was super over when steph was kidnapped and the fact they never capitalize on that still boggles me to this day.
His match with Undertaker was a dud at that years Backlash, if it had gone better (heavily promoted semi-main event) that would have been different, but there was crickets. Ken needed that to go better than Taker, Taker was so unharmed by it he was champ a month later. You can only blame creative so much, Taker and Ken devised a match that basically shat the bed.
@@TheRealAhoyIs that Undertaker's fault?
Ken was unreliable & no showed a lot of dates. Most other talent would’ve been fired on the spot. But WWE invested a lot in Shamrock, so he was given multiple chances. Ken is his own worst enemy.
@@Provos7777 W.
To be fair undertaker between 99 and 2001 was honestly washed as hell I can't think of 5 great matches he had during that period @@Speedyreedy1218
I still remember getting his 1997 action figure with the red trunks and boots for Christmas that was one my favorite outfits, it was so dope.
Once the Attitude Era ended and then Reliving it again, it still urks me on how much potential Shamrock had that was overlooked and not taking full advantage of who he was and could be. He was of course ahead of his time, in a highly talented and competitive locker room.
Ken Shamrock: The greatest Stone Cold Steve Austin rival that never was.
I remember a wwf magazine talking about a feud between them and getting excited about that. But it never happened.
Stone cold vs shamrock clda been money
It is weird how they never had a program together. Shamrock feuded with pretty much every other Attitude era star.
Yep :(
They had a submission match on Raw in 1998 which Austin won by tricking the referee.
Man I really hope it's not forgotten or undervalued, how Brett really acted as a backstage leader for the boys. 5:44 Looking out for Ken, with such solid advice, in reference to Micheals and Vader botch stiff incident and politics. But also just solid advice that would help Ken in how he works in the future regardless of promotion.
He was THE leader of the locker room, the 2nd is The Undertaker
He kind of paved the way for Kurt Angle. Shamrock's run popularized "tapping out" to be the way wrestlers submitted to hold in pro wrestling matches and Kurt adopted the anklelock.
Absolutely false
@@dallasparty316 While Ken wasn't the first to introduce tapping out to pro wrestling as a whole (Taz was doing it in ECW, for example), he is officially credited as the one who introduced it to WWE, so it's true. Prior to Ken all submissions required verbal submission only, and you could even see matches pre-Ken where wrestlers looked to be tapping out (like Bret vs. Owen at Mania X), but it wasn't counted as such until Ken debuted.
@@dallasparty316 why the hell you lying?
Shamrock had two of his biggest moments overshadowed by WWF history (Survivor Series 1997, King of the Ring 1998).
WrestleMania 14 was huge too. He “lost” but got a huge pop when Rock tapped out.
@cyrus2546 The Rock vs Shamrock was a memorable feud in 1998
You missed when he took 5 bulldog chin-locks and went mad
??
Ur dedication to this channel is to be admired,the RTW series has bn amazing,I never watched wcw,always was a wwf guy ( took me 6 months to get over screwjob ) so to see the war transpire over the weeks has bn amazing,kp up the good work god bless
Shamrock had one of THE best attitude era theme's ever.
Did we just witness the 1st episode of WWF blunder?
More like SmackDownUnder.
WWF SmackDowners
WWF Smack Downed
I'd be down for this!
He'd get far more millage from WWF than WCW.
This channel pays respect to wrestler's careers better than any Hall of Fame could
Planting brass knuckles in another
man’s banana hammock is 500 IQ move.
In that a set of brass knuckles in your pocket or are you just happy to see me 😂
Ken simply was there when the top of the roster was packed with household names. He came onto the scene just as Austin was breaking out into the next megastar, then you had other top guys like Bret/HBK/The Rock/Mankind/Undertaker who were all very much relevant for the duration of his run at one point or another.
If he had come along later or maybe even earlier I can definitely see him getting a World title run, but the main event pool was just so deep when he was in the WWF. Also, it was during an era where mic skills were at a premium and that just wasn't a strong part of his skill set.
Shamrock still had a very successful and very memorable run. Like others have already said, he was only with the company for about 2.5 years although it felt like he was there for a lot longer.
His timing was kind of odd, but he has to be pushed as a top star
@@lexkanyima2195 He was always in the upper midcard and was enough of name brand where they could occasionally slot him into a main event when needed.
Again, he had a really solid run despite a relatively brief run. He just wasn't ever going to be THE guy in that era.
@@SakAttack87 to conquer Austin. He had the tools to have that main event status.
I like this idea for a series. A nice analysis of what could have been.
Always felt Shamrock and Sean O'Haire were the two biggest missed opportunities and just being in the business at the wrong time.
They should’ve been a tag team
Thanks for this. Shamrock was and still is one of my favorite wrestlers. They really _did_ drop the ball on him. I still dream of the alternate timeline where he stayed and had matches with Angle, Tazz, Eddie, Benoit and others.
I had his book as a kid: Inside the Lion’s Den. He really inspired me to get serious into martial arts. The early 2000s…a great time.
I remember telling ken shamrock this on his Facebook page years ago. And how underatted he was and why he should've had a ppv program with guys like steve austin and triple h. And he agreed with me while responding even he said the wwe dropped the ball with a austin shamrock program which he said he pitched but vince McMahon shot it down and wanted him to still do the matches he did at the time.
He's an unsung hero of the Attitude Era as for a long time WWE didnt tend to acknowledge him, I hope he gets put in the HOF next year, especially since Mania is in Vegas and he lives in Reno and with TKO merger it would make sense. I wish he did come back from his injuries rather than go back to MMA, just think of the dream matches he wouldve had in 2000. He was backstage at Wrestlemania 18 in 2002 and was in talks to return but he only wanted to work part time and Vince wouldn't let him so he went to TNA instead.
So underrated. Ken should've been a hofer..they dropped the ball for sure. He could go in the ring and he left right before guys who worked his style cane in.
One of your best music mixes at the end of the video ❤
Maaan that thing had me going. Hate I can't find the name.
Really enjoyed ken/Owen story line. Brought best out the 2 in mid card situation.
One of the guys who got me back in to wrestling, loved him. He came off like a main eventer to me, it just hadn't happened yet. Him leaving was a shock, massive star in my eyes.
The effects of Montreal on Ken is an interesting side effect. People get annoyed at how much the Montreal Screwjob gets talked about but the ripples of that really were hard to overstate, and it could have been more from many other wrestlers reportedly felt betrayed.
Vader needed him to calm down?! Holy hell.
To the point where Vader tried to stuff him back and Shamrock didn’t notice. That’s classic.
@CynicalBeard "oh you tried to stiff me back because I went too hard? To me, it was Tuesday..."
I loved Ken's run in the WWF as a kid. He was one of my faves and always will be.
Shamrock's clear weakness was his promos, I'm not saying he couldn't talk at all but Attitude main eventers had to be top tier soundbite guys, Kane being the notable exception in those days.
I agree. All of the top guys back then (except Kane) could cut a great promo. Wrestling is a TV show at the end of the day. Promo's are the difference between mid card and top guy.
20,000 screaming Kanenites are currently furious with you
I agree, but not everyone was meant to be a great talker. He could've been the badass who let his actions speak for themselves.
Well, Takers promos at the time were not at the same level as the others despite getting the point across.
@gngrblls2thwall It's not a knock on Kane, his character just didn't talk much for the first few years, which was the majority of the Attitude Era
I actually met Ken once. It was probably around 10 years ago now. I was working in the security career field, and so was he at the time. My father was a huge fan of his, so i went and spoke to him for a few minutes and got a picture/signature. He seemed like a very serious but cordial individual. I asked him, "How is protecting famous rappers treating you?" He formed a sly grin and said "Ka-Chinggg" while rubbing his fingers together.
We were joking and laughing the entire time (maybe 10-15 mins). I hope he and his wife are doing well. He's an absolute pioneer of MMA (especially his time in Pancrase). His legend, his story, will be remembered long after he is gone.
2 things:
1- Ken was and is Awesome.
2- That mix of Homicide with Shamrocks theme is fire.
I respect this guy alot. He was giving 100 % with anything he did and tried to improve.
While I can agree that the WWF didn't fully deliver when it came to Ken Shamrock, I think blaming it mostly on the WWF itself is a bit much. Ken was really, more often than not, a victim of timing. He had moved back to pro wrestling in 1996 he could have been even more of a trailblazer & would have easily fit into the main event during 1997 (maybe even becoming WWF Champion instead of Taker) after establishing himself for a year, while had he debuted in 1998 or 1999 he would have later had amazing technical matches with Kurt Angle, any of the Radicalz, Tazz, etc in 2000/2001. However, when Ken actually debuted the main event was continually stacked beyond belief, whether it was Bret, Shawn, & Taker as Ken was on the rise in 1997, any combination of Austin, Foley, Taker, Kane, & eventually Rock during 1998, or Austin, Rock, Triple H, Foley, & Taker in 1999. There was simply no place for Ken to believably become WWF Champion during those years. Maybe had he stuck around & re-signed to be around for 2000 then he could have found himself a short reign between the various Rock & Triple H reigns that year, but that's really it.
However, to try to even insinuate that Billy Gunn was treated better as King of the Ring than Ken Shamrock is kind of ridiculous. While watching Reliving the War up through Ken's departure one thing that often came to my mind was just how often Ken was continually working, or at least interacting, with main event talent after becoming King in 1998. After finishing the feud with Owen he was up there with Rock & Mankind as next in line for the WWF Title (resulting in the excellent Breakdown cage match), his involvement in the Corporation constantly kept him in the upper midcard & working with main event talent, and while his stuff with Ryan Shamrock, Steve Blackman, & Chris Jericho definitely brought him down the ladder in 1999 he was still working with the main event players in some fashion in between those feuds & felt like he fit in with them. Billy Gunn, in comparison, went straight back to DX stuff after becoming King in 1999, before being forced into working with The Rock (which honestly looked more like a demotion for Rock), not to mention being made to look like a fool when Chyna managed to get herself an IC Title program with Jeff Jarrett, before returning to status quo by reuniting the New Age Outlaws before the year even ended.
The only thing about his run that sucked was that it ended imo. Everybody seemed to like him, just not when he was put in mic battles with the top tier guys. V
Turning him heel is the reason why people blame WWF. It was absolutely the wrong decision and made no sense. People loved cheering him. Watch his kotr fijal match vs Rock. The pop Ken got is insane. 3 months later he’s a heel and both Rock and Foley outshined him in the triple threat match.
@@cyrus2546 Him turning heel was perfect, the people had suddenly turned on Ken because he was in a 3 way feud with Rock and Mankind and they were loving them so much at the time that they just booed Shamrock by proxy. If there was a right time to do something like turn him heel, that was the time.
I definitely noticed the gradual change into taking it down a notch lol I loved his matches with The Rock.
I always wanted to see Shamrock vs Goldberg as part of the Invasion storyline: WWF are losing, Bischoff has brought the nWo back as a mercenary group to aid WCW and Goldberg has taken down WWFs best up to this point. Bischoff taunts McMahon that he's got nobody left to challenge Goldberg and then Ken's music hits...
Man, I loved Ken Shamrock! That was my dude during the Attitude Era! He was one of my favorites! That man deserves to be in more WWE games, more wrestling figures and a HOF induction! 😃 25 years later and I'm still mad about him leaving WWE. I never got my dream match with Ken Shamrock vs. Kurt Angle 😞
It took years for the crowd to get behind Kurt .. People forget that.
Always a pleasure when a Wrestling Bio's video drops❤
Shamrock should have been an unstoppable force
What a great video. Having watching the Attitude Era live as it happened, I've had a lot of opinions that I thought were set in stone. Reliving The War and videos like this have really caused me to re think a lot of what I thought I knew.
I always liked Shamrock, it is a shame that he really got lost in the shuffle. They could have done a lot more with him, he had legitimacy with his character. If he had stuck around we could have seen him have matches with Angle, Benoit, Eddie too.
Shamrock was amazing, he just needed a mouthpiece like Heenan or Heyman but at this point in wrestling there were very few managers.
And the WWF had Jim Cornette under contract at this time too. 🤔
Banger outro!
💯 agree, I think the main problem was his promos where so so and he kind of got lost in the shuffle; to be fair the talent at that time was pretty unbelievable
Hell yeah another wrestling bios love sundays
Was always a big fan when he was in wwf but didn’t realize how they didn’t utilize him.
Until I got older. One of those things you miss as a kid.
Hadn’t ever seen that clip of him about the screw job with his thoughts and feelings.
Interesting to hear his side of things as someone that was part of Bret’s crew. And how it also shifted his thought process to things prior and what could happen in the future.
Another great video, thank you
The chair shot that he ate face-first from The Rock was one of the craziest things I remember watching live back in the day.
Ken couldn't cut a promo to save his life. That's half of pro wrestling
Ken shamrock a badass in the ring, had an awesome entrance theme, he wasn't a promo guy but he could kick anyone's ass. Truly the world's most dangerous man and the number 1 guy in my boy stable.
Shamrock was and is a better version of Bill Goldberg. I'm not saying that to trash Goldberg, instead i'm merely suggesting that the WWF should've booked him like Bill and he could've been a main-event player.
One of my top 5🙌🏾
Ken shamrock's run in the WWF could've been better they dropped the ball ken shamrock's theme song is iconic.
so his run should’ve been better because of his theme music? 😂
It's a bit harsh to say they dropped the ball. After SummerSlam they were pretty much doing a big push to send Rock, Foley and Shamrock in to the main event picture, but while The Rock just started getting crazy pops, and Foley kept introducing little quirks he was so good at on the reg (most notably Mr. Socko), Shamrock seemed bland in comparison, and they started booing him. Thought the move to make him the Corporations hitman was an inspired move, but that wasn't the plan at all it just made sense because he was getting heel heat anyway, which wasn't supposed to happen.
@@RebelliousEraLol, ikr? That's basically Ultimate Warrior style booking.
@TheRealAhoy but the fans swerve
Could easily see Shamrock as having been a vicious heel World Champ with a great manager as a mouthpiece a la Lesnar and Heyman.
I always felt he was the proto Brock the kinks hadn’t been worked out yet
Shamrock vs The Rock were freakin Awesome !!
Ken Shamrock is someone I've always wanted to be a surprise entrant in a Royal Rumble because we haven't seen him in WWE whatsoever for over 25 years!!!
Even if he's in the Rumble for something like 8 minutes and he has a fun spot staring down another badass brawler guy and clashes with them. It doesn't seem very likely at all now but I really wish he'd been in a Rumble over the last 10-15 years, he should definitely be in the WWE Hall of Fame too.
Thanks 4 this vid 🫡
WWF also dropped the ball with Steve Blackman
WWF/E dropped the ball with many wrestlers
They didn't realise what they had.
WWF is a TV show, like every other TV show. People don't get promoted based on their credentials, they get promoted based on their tv presence. I loved Blackman but he didn't come in to his own until he became hardcore champ, and the hardcore scene... Wasn't exactly main event level y'know?
How? He didn’t have the mike skills or gimmick to be a main eventer
@@WesleyWilkins-qf2kyPeople seem to think that because a guy could get a pop that means they should be in the main event people don't realize that back then everybody was over to some degree and could get a pop
A fair, thoughtful analysis. Id like to see more of these once you wrap up all the episodes of THUNDER IN PARADISE, BROTHER
Shamrock was a great fighter and a great underrated wrestler
I fw Shamrock ☘️
Yea it got a little cringe towards the end but his early WWE/UFC days were pretty sweet. He was a genuine badass.
That remix with his theme at the end *chefs kiss*
One of my all time favorite WWE superstars
Shamrock was so cool, him and Blackman is what got me into WWF as a kid because I liked martial arts and the street fighter/mortal kombat games
With the right booking Shamrock could've been the WWF's answer to Goldberg. He had a legit background, was intense in the ring, and was a better worker than Goldberg ever was. It's just a shame he got lost in the shuffle, and backstage politicking of that era. He should've been in that mix between Austin, Rock and HHH as one of the top guys after Bret and Shawn were gone.
The remix at the end is incredible
I 💯 agree. I rebooked the WCW vs WWF invasion and featured Shamrock in a feud against Lance Storm.
Shamrock is one of if not my favorite wrestlers ever. He usually made matches feel very creative, hard hitting/legit, and logical. He and The Rock tore down the house at the 1998 Royal Rumble, had an underrated match with The Undertaker at Backlash '99, and had several other matches that are amongst my favorites.
Interesting perspective, thanks for sharing it, you could've mentioned his limited mic skills though, surely a factor and unless worked on a pretty big obstacle in the Attitude era.
I think a lot of people knew back then that Ken should have been used better! I loved watching Ken kick ass when i was young and you are right they should have just made him this badass who beat up fools and won titles. Certainly should have had a run with the WWF title
Shamrock just could not cut a promo to save his life.
Thanks BIOS
Late 90s Big Boss Man was great.
Ken Shamrock had all the potential to be the WWF Champion in 1998, as the guy Vince McMahon hires to take out Steve Austin. Even if his run only went from say SummerSlam to the Royal Rumble, or even just Survivor Series.
Unfortunately Ken was a victim of both the booking style of the Attitude Era, and his inability to cut promos.
If they had him continue to snap and get himself disqualified for not releasing holds or assaulting referees, and paired him up with someone like Jim Cornette to talk for him, negotiate deals, teach him when to bend the rules without breaking them, and get him to stop before he costs himself (and of course in kayfabe, Cornette as well) money through getting fines and suspensions, it would have been a great pairing.
Plus if they put him over as a dominant IC Champion, then he would have been easily considered a legitimate threat to Steve Austin when McMahon was looking for someone to get the title off of him in 1998.
But like you said, there is always a flip side. If we had got a Ken Shamrock WWF Title run, we likely would never have seen the incredible rise of The Rock, or Mick Foley shocking everyone by winning the WWF Title.
His inability to cut promos hurt him more than anything. Benoit had the same problem but when Benoit won the title in 2004 promo skills weren’t as important as they were in the AE.
@cyrus2546 but Benoit could cut a promo in a unique way
Ken was very underrated. I will never forget that chair shot from the rock right into kens face. It was so sick looking
He snapped!!!!
Shamrock was one of my favourite wrestlers from the Attitude Era, they really did drop the ball with him.
August 1997 I saw him in person in the ring when I had ringside seats for a house show.
WWF definitely got Kens entrance music right, still bangs now!!!
My only criticism of the video is after Ken's 1998 KOTR win you said the WWF did absolutely nothing with it; only to skip past September's events where they did push Shamrock into the World Title picture.
Sometime after SummerSlam '98, Shamrock confronted Austin for a title shot on Sunday Night Heat. The promo was a huge deal at the time considering how over both were & how unstoppable both were booked for the past year; with neither man having a clean pinfall or submission loss during the 12 months leading into it making the match anyone's game. They then had a main event match the following Raw. Now, I agree, this should have been a PPV rather than free money. But both men made the other look very strong; very back-and-forth, helping Shamrock look like he was on Austin's level. The match was interrupted. Shamrock was then involved in a very good #1 contender's match which included both The Rock & Mankind; keeping Shamrock very close to the title picture. I would imagine these clashes were similar to what WWF did with Luger & Bret at the '94 Rumble, testing the crowd to see who they'd pop for more to decide who'd be the top contender.
It didn't last incredibly long, but for a good month, Shamrock was very much pushed into the title picture.
But his momentum got derailed and was never bounced back
I love Kenny boy!! Shamrock brought a sence of realistic fighting to WWF. They definitely dropped the ball with him!!
One of my favorites all time.
Shamrock is a personal favorite of mine. Top twenty to be exact, while the ball was dropped he indeed had some great moments. My two favorite matches of mine are his against Owen in the Lions den and against Taker at Backlash 99 (a 2000’s technical thriller ahead of its time)
I do wish he showed up around 2000 or 2001 instead though as I’m sure he would’ve had great matches with Angle, Jericho, Lesnar, Eddie, and many others. Would’ve been a great time man.
To this day in the games he pops up in I make time to play as him and rip some ankles off after some belly to belly’s.
I also wonder if his younger brother could’ve ever jumped into the business, he’s my personal favorite MMA fighter ever so I would’ve loved to have seen him in a WWE or maybe even TNA ring. Anyway while a short run Ken was a bit of a trailblazer indeed so I hope to see him inducted in the HOF sometime in the near future
Shamrock was my guy as a kid. His character was legit as I used to watch him in UFC & Pride too. He put on great matches with The Rock who began rooting for during his Nation run.
Shamrock had heart inwitch most dont know or comprehend
Loved using Shamrock on WWF Warzone
My god... That credits song... 😮
It’s the rapper logic and Eminem rapping over a remixed version of shamrocks theme
It still amazes me too how at a time of stables they never thought to have the dojo with Shamrock, Severn & Mu’fugga luckily we’ve got Wrestling Bios to rectify that
Just if he stuck around when Angle, Benoit, Guerrero, Malinko came to wwf then later on Lance Storm, Booker T, Brock Lesnar.
Could of seen him in a Tag Team with Chris Benoit with Shane Mcmahon as there manager taking on the likes of The Rock and Undertaker.
Nah Fr that freestyle in the end was fire.
in the 90s as a kid I loved DX, but when shamrock showed up I was legit worried about the road dog and BA billy gunn
Love Ken Shamrock ever since UFC 1. Not sure I realized they softened up his move set because that wild side of his was terrifying. He did not need to work stiff because his character work sort of picked up the slack. Plus, I watch MMA if I want MMA. I watch wrestling because it is wrestling. Never been a fan of the mixed styles because one is real, one is scripted. The hybrid shoot/wrestling match always felt like I was watching the Underfaker because I had already been introduced to MMA.
Agreed, i used to use the video package made for survivor series 97 to show friends a specific clip that was in the HBK-Hitman video, but showed Shamrock reversing the sharpshooter into thd ankle lock and countering Sweet Chin Music into the ankle lock also. I think he should have had atleast one title run, even if as a transitional champ ..
The outro song is awesome!
Ken Shamrock was already a superstar before joining the WWE. His matches with Dan Severn were always talked about in school yards back then! I always wanted to see him pushed more into the main event! Imagine if we had gotten him vs Angle, or him vs Lesnar years later!
He was such a cool intercontinental champion. Easily the best mid card attitude era wrestler.