Kill Team | The Problems with Bheta Decima
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- Опубликовано: 15 авг 2024
- Welcome to today's Warhammer 40000 Kill Team video where I cover the problems with the season 3 Bheta-Decima killzone. I go over all the main problems with this new terrain set as well as why most tournament organisers aren't using it for Kill Team events. I also talk about what could be done to fix Bheta-Decima and make it more playable!
#warhammer #Warhammer40k #KillTeam #KillTeamITD
00:00 - Intro
00:55 - What is Bheta-Decima?
01:50 - Limited Movement
02:52 - Lack of Playable Space
04:21 - Faction Disadvantage
07:06 - Bad Maps
09:39 - GW Objective Markers
11:17 - Lack of Availability
13:13 - Fixing Bheta-Decima
19:39 - Bheta-Decima Overview
23:37 - Outro
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Игры
Bring on Season 4 - Jungles!
JUNGLE 4 LIFE
The Jungle is massive 🤓 😎
bring back those weird little plastic jungle trees from 3e
@@m__y-t-s This guy get it!
Better than this ridiculous flying thing I keep seeing rumours about
I get that it's fairly useless for tournaments but i hope all this negative feedback the design team must be getting doesn't put them off trying interesting scenarios like this. Its definitely cool to have different set ups and verticality if done right should be awesome
I think it's a good test but needs more refinement. Verticality is an interesting idea but the big problem is cost of movement to go higher without fly etc
Was kinda hoping they would have jump/climb points on terrain to allow quick access to different levels etc
@@CanYouRollaCritthat’s a problem with the physical terrain models. The gantries themselves don’t make sense thematically just being floating islands. If they were all interconnected with rails, ladders and stairs like necromunda it would be great, but the terrain box would have to double in size
Thanks for the detailed analysis. I sincerely hope GW listens to the KT community and "fixes" BD. I also hope that jump tests come back in some manner with appropriate amounts of risk vs reward. Everyone auto passing jump tests feels boring.
Yeah 100%
I really needed this because I've been unsure of whether to get Bheta Decima or not. 😂
Hopefully it helped aha
buy a outside map or into the dark.. for myself im not buying Bheta-Decima, and I adore kill team
@@georgekingstone6364 thanks for the tip! I have played 40k for many years but never Kill Team and I'm looking for some nice terrain for it.
I love your inputs for improvement. Going to put those into my house rules for my set. Thanks!
Oh nice, lemme know how it goes!
Now I see what playing Gellerpox does to a man.
I've been enlightened by the pox
@@CanYouRollaCrit 40mm based and Gellerpilled
40mm bases are the true saviours of Kill Team
I completely agree with your assessment. I was enjoying the new environment at first too but have experienced the same affect, that if one team has movement tricks they can use and the other doesn't then the game is no fun. I only play casually but my friends and I have agreed recently that we don't want to play on Bheta Decima any longer. So I do hope they come out with some rules changes for it.
Yeah hopefully GW fix it soon ):
So, I also felt like BD on its own just isn't "enough" terrain to keep things moving. I found a discounted set of the mechanicus terrain from Kill Team: Nachmund and painted it up with BD colors, as well as galvanic incinerator piece for some extra gantries. With the added terrain it's made the experience WAY more enjoyable, because it gives enough gantries to have some start within deployment zones. That alone really fixes the movement issues, and overall helps with the immersiveness of the game.
Oooh interesting, yeah the set needs way more terrain in general
@@CanYouRollaCrit I'll second the idea of adding Nachmund terrain to BD boards, the sets are thematically similar and adds a lot more cover and flavor to BD boards. Also, the GW armored containers terrain is perfectly sized to act as additional gantries on a map.
@@CanYouRollaCrit Yeah, I was going to ask if you thought it would help if there were maps with all the season's terrain on there..? I saw a pic where someone had plopped down the generatorum (? - the shot glass holder) and it looked heaps better, even with just that.
We are using swimming since Nightmare came out, GW should absolutely make them official for all games, this made such a good difference
Ah great! Swimming is so fun haha
I really feel like the AdMech Community Pool was an interesting idea that just got released half-baked.
Thinking on jump tests in light of your comments about teams that don’t have movement tricks & I’m glad they didn’t go the route of a movement tax to auto pass jumps - that would’ve exacerbated the problem.
Yeah paying movement to jump would have been pain 😬
I feel like Beta Decima was supposed to have 2-3 times as much terrain on it, with gantries starting in deployment zones. They obviously wanted to do a layered fight map but it just didn't pan out.
Yeah, it deffo would have worked with more terrain as gantries can be stacked on themselves already
I imagine marketing said no way we make the maps require an £180 box of terrain, go back and take half of it away.
Now take half away again....
The worst part is immersion, the gantries just dont make any sense they are random floating platforms. If they looked like a necromunda board with stairs, rails and ladders it would be awesome, and as you said more layers.
Ladders and stairs that reduced climb distance would be thematic, also at the same time they could have made universal equipment “climbing gear”
@@davidkimball5222 Didn't the original hints of Bheta Decima show gantries on gantries making it two levels high?
@@davidkimball5222 "Lets take out the Generatorum Hub and put it in one box... and those containers can go in another..."
This video could not have come at a more opportune time. Sitting on the generatorum piece but no idea whether I should invest in the full BD terrain (in the hope it gets more balanced) or sell the piece.
Maybe hold on to it for open?
Played our first game on Bheta decima, wasn’t impressed. The killzone is too small. I like the idea of swimming! That would help. They should make shots from the gantry only 6” when it goes through hazardous terrain. The cover on the ground not is not ideal. Great video! We were all thinking it lol, I’m glad you said it.
Thanks haha, yeah I feel it's a general consensus which the community has
'Small' from Nachmund would be a useful terrain trait for the objectives. i.e. Ignore for movement, but can't end up on top of one.
Yeah that would be perfect
Ah this is video I was w8ing for before selling bheta decima :D Lets decide now! Thanks John. (Any news about inquisitorial agent guide? 😏)
No worries, maybe soon haha
I happened to have walkways and the furnace laying around and our gaming group hasn't even bothered to play bheta decima for the simple fact that our octarius and into the dark terrain just looks cooler. This Killzone is boring and restrictive in comparison.
my first BD game was my custodes vs his Scouts.
I managed to understand these problems by the end of second turning point and accepted what was happening. It was definitely unfun.
I won't use it in my league or tournaments
Yeah that was the same experience me and my friends/locals have had with BD 😅
Hoping we do see some positive changes for it soon. Until then, it's great for Necromunda!
Necromunda always winning 👀
Glad my casual local club can skip this terrain set up.
Yeahhhhh
I built my BD with the little hatches per the instructions and that just made it worse because the objectives won’t sit flat. Doh.
Same bro, it looks so good but 😭😭😭
I specifically avoided doing that. Thought about, but did not, mod the furnace to make it actually sit flat as designer's notes show was the original intent.
I keep getting the map setup where the objectives are in the way of climbing the big piece. Makes the whole thing awkward
Yeah sounds like the general BD experience 😅
Do you think the extra terrain from kill team nightmare remedies some of the issues this kill zone has?
No, unfortunately
Hey, John! Thanks for the new video!
Can you, maybe, also share some thoughts on how to deal with the Mandrakes team on ITD maps? As they seem to be sooooooooo broken!
They've been a bit less brutal as we found in the core FAQ that you only count as being within heavy from pillars and wall ends (not doors weirdly).
They're still incredibly powerful but makes it easier to fight them if you stay in the centre of rooms etc
I think I’d rather play beta decima than vs ravagers/mandrakes on into the dark. It’s absolutely brutal
The issue is tho that's because of 2 flawed kill teams balance wise instead of heavily flawed killzone that punishes around 20 teams
Kicking out the Jump Tests also made the missions quite absurd as some seem written with that aspect in mind. What was the exact problem with it? Models failing and standing in the open or what? I would say the more unpredictable situations make the games more vivid and fun. And with Swimming/Diving there should be no problem at all
Losing a game over rolling a 1 with no reroll was not fun. They could have still made jump tests interesting and unique instead of just removing them tho
I want this for Necromunda
3 things i wanna say
1) Last tournament Ive played against Fellgor on ITD and it was just you said - unplayable. And still we all live with ITD and I haven't heard that someone banned fellgor or smthing like that. But Im hearing a lot of thrashtalk about BD (most often from players, who love to play on melee teams)
2) Please, can you use different angle for your videos - zoom out maybe, or change the angle where we can see your hands or chest maybe. Cause when you so much zoom in your your face - its feels uncomfartable
3) Please, use more than 30 fps camera, cause when you move your head, or blink, or talk - we see your eye/mouth much slower than it's in real life and it feels strange too
1) that's just a fellgor specific issue sadly, waiting for a proper Fellgor nerf
2) Maybe? No one else has ever complained
3) I do use a 60fps 1080p camera
@@CanYouRollaCrit 2) Thank you!
3) Really strange, cause Im watching you in max youtube quality and still see this blur effect, just like when looking at 30fps video
1) Is it fault of the team or terrain? Fellgors have their issues outside claustrophobic halls of derelict ship in my humble opinion as I am playing ITD just fine.
maybe have grapling gear : 1 white to climb or 1 less white to climb (players choice) ... then make your climbing to decima platforms 1 white. (argue its low gravity)
If only we had universal equipment 😅
The Swimming rule doesn't say that the operative is in *Light* Cover. You're effectively in super conceal, like the Smokes on Nachmund. It's untyped Cover, so Vantage Points don't negate it.
Yeah, that's why I said they should change it to light cover (:
This is incorrect. Cover never has a type, cover is just cover. Terrain features have the light or heavy trait but both provide cover. The only difference being heavy terrain features also have the obscuring trait.
@@CanYouRollaCrit There is no such thing as light cover in Kill Team. There are terrain features with the light or heavy trait and both provide cover. Vantage states that an operative who is in cover provided by a terrain feature with the light terrain trait. Swimming provides cover while in a hazardous area but it is not a terrain feature and does not have the light or heavy traits.
Vantage won't work against swimming operatives because their cover is not provided by a terrain feature with the light keyword. Yes this means they would have super conceal if they had a conceal order, and not be concealed if they had an engage order but can still retain a save automatically due to cover. Outside of 4 inches they won't be visible anyway while swimming and within 2 inches they won't have cover. So between 4 and 2 inches they would effectively have super conceal.
12:22 I misunderstood the rules. I was climbing gantries rounding climb to to circle down.
You still drop for 1 white but 2 white to climb
I actually saw the terrain at 50% off because it didn't sell at a local store in Stockholm.
Oh damn
What if everyone had access to some sort of climbing rope on BD
If everyone got it for free, that would help a lot haha
if the jeans stealers can swim, there will be a lot of naked people on this map ahaha
No jeans allowed
I think a lot of this would be solved by buffing mandrakes
We must go further...beyond!
So, what are these 10 kill teams that dominate Beta Decima?
Not dominate, but play very well on it and have an advantage vs those that do not. Those are:
Pathfinders, Hierotek, Hearthkyn, Kroot, Phobos, Nemesis Claw, Quins, Wyrmblade, Kommandos, Scout/Hunter Clade
It also just looks boring. I'm still not a fan of Into the Dark but even I got to admit the boards look great. Beta Decima could have been something spectacular like playing over open space, lava, a toxic pit but nope it's just water.
Does the nightmare terrain improve BD in your opinion?
Nah, it needs swimming rules to work and is still too big
Mmmm, swimming Genestealers... 😋
Like one of the few good parts from Alien Resurrection 👀
@@CanYouRollaCrit My thoughts exactly!!! 😂😎😁
Is there a list of those 10 teams?
Yup, mentioned it in another comment (:
So the fix is to remove the one thing harlequins can do now? I mean, I get how that would be helpful for the rest of the teams, but that completely screws over Harlequins.
Harlequins are doing completely fine tho
@@CanYouRollaCrit I agree, but it seems wrong to remove fly from them, give them flip belts, and then give the same ability to literally every other team. Unless they changed flip belts to be you spend 1 white for all up/ down movement during that activation.
Just make the rule “one less circle than otherwise”
I don't understand the point about the objectives being vantage points?
What don't you understand about it?
I may be wrong, but I understood it was that you cannot place a model on anything that isn't the killzone floor unless it has the _Vantage Point_ trait.
So it was purely to let you *finish a move on top* ...and the height difference is unlikely to trigger usual vantage point benefits.
What do you mean it's 2 O to climb we've been playing it as 1 O to climb the entire time
You need to pay 4 inches (2 white) to climb gantries sadly. It's only 1 white when going from grantries to the furnace
@@CanYouRollaCrit I won't relay this information to the boys.
it's still sold out everywhere anyway
But I said that in the video 🤔🤣
@@CanYouRollaCrit did you? Must have missed it sorry
Still trying to find gallowdark, I'm probably just going to wait until there's a new killzone box and just preorder it the second it's available so I can stop using the 40k starter set board with random junk on it for kill team (though if you honor it's printed on walls it's not actually that bad, especially if you split the centre space into two halves with obscuring terrain)
r u going 2 Critical Strike 3?
When is that one? :O
August 11? I think, got me ticket :P
decima just looks lazy and awful.
It deffo needs some more extra terrain with it
How to fix Bheta Decima? Just don’t use it.
That's one option aha
I find that sometimes you tend to be a little more negative than necessary in your videos. You called the video 'The Problems with Bheta Decima' and while you highlight excellent issues and provide constructive feedback on the kill zone you could have called the video 'Fixes needed for Bheta Decima'.
You stated that you won't be using this killzone in your upcoming tournament, but any Tournament Organizer can release a package that modifies the rules as necessary. WTC does this all the time with 40k events (fighting through walls outside of an inch for example). The design team (and Tournament Organizers for now) just need to add the scalable trait to the gantries terrain feature, modify the Restricted Line of Sight rule in the Hazardous Area rules to add 'When determining if an operative is visible to another operative or when determining light of sight...' to the first line of the rule, and add 'Hazardous Areas cannot be selected when placing tokens, barricades, or for the purpose of selecting one point in the killzone' to fix team imbalance issues.
Adding swimming and diving and fixing the provided objective markers would all be welcomed as well, but using the provided objective markers isn't required. The problem is your video is being used when deciding/convincing people to sell or get rid of their Bheta-Decima terrain when a few minor changes make it a very fun play experience.
Or use other terrain. Sounds like less work for those poor organizers.
But what you're describing is essentially community comp. It won't be widely adopted or used so it would cause BD being played differently at every event.
We could put in tons of effort to comp BD or just use the 5 to 6 other killzones that work already
@@CanYouRollaCrit Damm, I am sometimes totally forgetting that there were times you can simply buy terrain sets from GW like Octarius or Nachmund. Today gamer simply do not walk to GW to buy that stuff.
It sucks that all those terrain sets have gone OOP :/
Climbing gear really should be an universal equipment, or atleast avaible in some maps.
Kindaaaa, just doesn't make sense for some factions. Should be built into the map instead with fixed climbing points
Doesn't make sense for what faction? In fiction or like in a gameplay sense? Just saying that special forces of all sorts usually have climbing gear. Aliens have alien sort and people have people sort, be it a biological horror
show or just buncha hooks and ropes. Teams that currently have access to climbing gear feel very arbitrary.
The bheta decima does have ladders modeled in and ther are rules for ladders, that could be used yeah?