i'm a forest service trail volunteer on 4th season. i was allowed to bring home some crosscut saws left outside a shed for years, I've cleaned and filed two of the three i brought home. i worked last week on our historic lassen trail a mix of pine and oak and was surprised at how well it cut oak. in watching your video for the 4th or 5th time it occured to me its a champion tooth (3 ft.). i was checking on a contracted crew two months ago sporting a Dolly Chapman filed saw, immediately fell in love and started an obsession. thanks for your videos
You're welcome. The saw in the video was a little Disston, good saw but not my favorite. The Atkins 390 on my YT cover photo is my go-to saw for single bucking. Dolly is indeed a National Treasure for her expertise and knowledge of traditional tools.
@@PATCsawyer tried to register on the crosscutsawyer forum days ago, to chime in and possibly get some answers to questions i have. has the site gone idle
This video is a study in excellence. I set mine across my lap and hit it with whatever file I have within arms reach. Then splash it with turtle wax. Outstanding!
Excellent video and thank you for sharing your expertise! The slideshow presentation allows for stopping, reviewing and thinking through each step before moving to the next. Again, Excellent!
That video was excellent. Have known what the end results should be like, but never could figure out the steps to really reach that end. Much appreciated of your time and education provided.
I thought that I was prepared to sharpen my first cross-cut saw. The saw that I purchased is identical to yours shown with the exception of nearly no wear or overuse. Then I read your RUclips presentation! What a terrific job you’ve done of answering all the questions I had that I thought might be answered in the process. They never would have been because I didn’t realize how particular one needed to be in measuring. Thank you for saving me from frustration and failure.
I have read several documents and watched several videos on this subject, learning how to do this by trial and error on two saws that were given to me. Your video supports what I have already learned and further educates me in other areas. Your explanation on filing and finishing the rakers goes another step beyond what I knew. Thank you for creating this video, I will be referring to it regularly. Too bad this isn't a published document.
John - The first saw is always the hardest. I tell people to start with a rummage sale beater and practice. Then put your good one in the vise and apply your own personal lessons learned. The raker swaging is a bit advanced and your saw will cut ok with straight rakers. It will run smoother with the straight ones though.
I only looked st 8:07 and your made Setting Anvil! Very nice, i will copy it since there arent any old Anvils in german speaiking Europa online. Atleast i didnt look too far, since my old 2 kg Handhammer did the job aswell. Thank you!
Great job! You've added to the much-needed documentation of traditional skills, which I think will be very accessible for more people (is the future?). I'm sharpening my own saws, in particular the 3-5 ft saws, since that's mostly what we're carrying in the backcountry in CO and AZ. Currently working on a saw in bad shape, similar to yours. Hope to "salvage" the saw, at times I've become a little down on it, not knowing where to go with things. You've helped me a ton in that regard John Nelson
I've not used that method, but vinegar is a known rust remover. Depending on how rusty/pitted the saw is, you may still need to follow up the vinegar treatment with oil and light sandpaper or steel wool to get it clean.
Excellent video! I just successfully filed my first saw, cut great, but after watching this (despite my previous research), i have learned that I made some mistakes - I'll just do a better job on the next saw!
What mistakes did you make? That video is 12 years old, and while it covers the basics, there are many other steps/techniques that I use now that I couldn't include in the original video.
@@PATCsawyer mostly attention to the rakers. I swaged them right to .012", that left me nothing to dress to final shape with a file. Also I swaged some crooked, so I had no meat left on the tooth to correct with a file. I did the cutters ok, but the angles weren't consistent. That is mostly just due to lack of experience. Also I hadn't heard of rolling the file at the tip like you did. Now I'm itching to make a saw vise and sharpen another!
@@themadmailler Have you visited crosscutsawyer.com? Good discussion and database of filing info. I have a lot of posts on that site. Do you live anywhere near Michigan? Hartwick Pines is hosting their Black Iron days the last weekend of August. Lots of blacksmithing but I'll be the only saw filer there.
Hi Pat, Thanks for the advice. I now have 5 cross cut's. I got "tooled up" as this is a long term investment for me and had to get most of them from the U.S.A jointers etc. Well worth the money and I am expecting an Gault 205 soon for one of the saw's. The Disston GM was a dream to file (a good starter saw to learn how to file, as most saw's sold in the U.K. are G.M) and to use not much more trouble than a plain tooth. The only thing is that a knife file is recommended for this saw. Would well recommend getting one. (file and saw) Thanks again Duncan
For basic filing, use the round file for gumming out the gullets and lowering them if necessary. An 8" flat mill file will work fine on the teeth and fit any jointer you're likely to use. An 8" slim taper file will cut the V and shape your rakers. All three are readily available at any hardware store. YT shows me using a cantsaw file, but that's what I had at the time I made the video. Specialty files are not a necessity for this job.
thanks so much. i'll go to the hardware store soon! The saw should arrive this week as well. Wonderful video. It took me an hour to watch, but i'm sorta detail oriented.
Thanks so much for posting this. This is one of the references I'm using in getting my first saw in shape. I just signed on for the Powell Mtn. Trail - hope to see you in the woods soon. I wonder why RUclips decided that a related video was 'Danish Girls Enjoying Beach Life In Copenhagen'. I missed the bikini section of your video.
Great video... I just started getting into cross-cut saws... was planning on putting them up at the cabin but decided to clean some up... I had been only using the ones that were already sharp... might now try and bring back one of the dull one
Thanks. I went looking for something like this when I first started filing, but there was nothing online at the time. So, I decided to make one myself.
No, but I suppose you could stop the video and make a screen grab (ctrl+print) of each frame and paste them into a Word document. Select the frames you want then print the whole doc. If you try this, run the video in HD as it will give you a better quality image.
Thank you so much for sharing this important information. This kind of knowledge is dying and at danger of being lost. Great proper job on the finished product! I run a sharpening business and want to buy a couple of the saws to re furbish so I can add them to the roster of things I already sharpen. I am also interested in learning about the large steam powered sawmill circular blades if anyone can direct me. I will be using your video as a reference. Thank you and God bless!
Dan--This video is GREAT! Thanks so much for all of the information. I have spent most of my life using and filing 6ft crosscuts and now have a handful of smaller Champion tooth saws to work on. I was so happy to find your video. Good job! So, now that I realize I need a new raker gauge for these saws, I'm looking for a Galt 460 or a Simonds #450. Like all of these old tools, it seems hard to find and wondering if you know of anywhere I may be able to find these beauties. Thanks so much.-Lisa
Richard - I prefer to hammer set crosscut saw teeth, though on occasion I have used a large Morrill APEX saw set. For the tiny teeth of a bow saw, I'll hold the thin blade in a metal-jawed vise and carefully wrest them with a pliers.
I've never sold a saw as a business venture. I recondition them for trail overseers. Perhaps someone who's interested in traditional tools, or living off the grid would be a customer. I try to keep my price at the break even point which includes finding a good one, having it shipped, replacing hardware, making a new handle, adding a second handle, and making a sheath.
Woah. What a tutorial! I have two Disston singles; one common tooth and one with rakers (champion tooth I think?). I’m wearing out brand new files like they’re made of aluminum because I have a similar “high raker” issue, but there are no broken rakers or teeth! I am going to reassess my steps now. Clear the rust from the plate and teeth tips, rakers from end to end first, then I’ll finish up with the cutters. Thank you for sharing this! You’re obviously well experienced and there is a Massive Void of truly expert knowledge of this online. Please let me know if you’re still doing this stuff and if you have anything to add for a true saw rookie. I was tempted to break out the grinder but felt like that would be blasphemy. If you can recommend a brand new file that works like it’s 50 years old, please let me know! The new files I’m finding in stores are garbage and I can’t seem to put my hands on a good new old stock file for under an arm and leg.
Christopher - I used a cant saw file in the video because it was what I had on hand. Nicholson mill files from most any hardware store should hold up long enough to finish two saws. Some filers like Bahco or other files not locally available, but buying a single file online and paying the ship charge can be more expensive than getting a couple Nicholsons and accepting that they will wear out faster. Ebay is a good place to look for NOS tools but requires patience as "everybody" is looking for quality old tools. Perhaps try FB marketplace. A good source of saw filing info is crosscutsawyer.com The search function is a little slow but there are good exchanges among filers about tools and techniques.
Anderson Gauge: Set the filing plate of your gauge high and do a raker at one end of the saw. Place a straight edge across the two teeth on either side of the raker and measure that height with a feeler gauge. Repeat until you have the height you want then finish all rakers. The numbered plate is Anderson's version of a pin gauge.
If your saw has a consistent arc (not always the case), place the jointer on the saw and see how many teeth are making contact with the file (shine a light up under the file for a better look). If too flat or too curved, adjust the jointer's screw until all teeth are touching the file. Better to be a little less curved than too much, as the center of the file will ride the curvature as you run it over the teeth. WEAR GLOVES, as files are famous for slipping off the jointer.
You will not likely find a non-named brand tool for this job. Surf Ebay, as there are lots of crosscut saw tools up for auction. Other than the Simonds 342, The Atkins #3 and #4 are execellent raker gauges, but hard to come by, Simonds 550 and Galt 460 are good for small saws, and Atkins #15 is a good pin gauge. I've heard that Disston made a good gauge, but I don't own one.
My 10 minute slide show wasn't meant to be the last word on saw filing. This is something you learn by doing. I'm eight years into filing, and every saw is an education.
The Simonds #342 is a good combination jointer, as it also has a swaging pin and a raker filing plate. The raker pin and filing plate plate may be too wide for your small saw though.
Hi Dan. This video is very informative. Thank you. I am currently sharpening a two man perforated lance tooth saw and I'm having trouble setting the teeth. I'm using an old axe head as an anvil which is heavy enough compared to weights I've read in other guidelines. It seems that no matter how hard I strike the tooth it won't budge. Would you recommend softening the the tooth in any way before setting? Or any other solutions? Thanks, Erik
As I woke up in the middle of the night, it came to my mind, if the jointer tool accounts for the taper ground of the saw plate. Meaning, that the jointer is 90 degrees, but the taper is not. But I guess, that has a negligible effect on filing the teeth flat.
Concave side goes down on the anvil over some THIN material that will absorb the hammer strike. Work slowly on this, and don't hammer too hard. You can easily over correct. Modern saws will bend and warp without much effort; older saws will take more work. Other filers may have their own way of dealing with bowed blades. If you can find one, pick his/her brain.
Great vid. I shot out into the garage to make a start on my small single handed xcut saw (while it was fresh in my head), only to find my tooth pattern is a simple M pattern, not 'champion'. Q: should the set on both teeth (each 'M') be the same direction or opposite?
Typically, an M-tooth saw has a gullet between each M. The points on each M are set in the same direction and alternate with each adjacent M. Google "Tuatahi work saw" and look at the images.
Pat, what is your recommendation for how much lower to have the rakers set below the cutters? I am cutting Doug fir, Hemlock, cedar, and a bit of Alder. Also do you have a suggestion for the amount of set for the cutters?
Dan, actually. PATC is a ref to the Potomac Appalachian Trail Club. I would have several answers to that question depending on what kind of saw you're using and whether the wood is green or dry. If you're using a heavy lance-tooth crescent ground saw with two buckers in green wood, set the teeth a little wider and file the rakers a bit lower, say, 0.015"/0.015" respectively. If the wood is dry tighten that up to 12/12, and if single bucking maybe 12/10. This is for trees on trails with some potential bind. If you're cutting firewood rounds in low or no bind conditions, your can tighten the set up more and the saw will run faster. If your saw is flat ground though, open up that set a few thou more. I cut mostly dry hardwood on trails and have my saws set at around 12/10. When I put that saw in green softwood though, it will pull whiskered noodles.
+Dona LeGrand Brass would likely deform when struck against tough saw steel. I prefer to hold the head of a 1/2" grade 8 bolt against a raker tip and strike that with a hammer. Much harder to miss and easier to control the striking angle. Plus, if you look notice the raker putting divots in the head of the bolt, chances are the rakers are very hard and could chip when swaged. If so, consider heating them a little to draw out some of that temper.
I get most of my saws and tools on Ebay, though I have purchased some large 2-mans from The Axe Hole; I purchased my Gibbs jointer from the Crosscut Saw Company, as the originals are are too pricey; and I purchase my files from Warrensville Knife and File Inc.
I think you mean wresting, which bends the overall tooth rather then peening over just the tip like I do with a hammer. I don't wrest my saws, but if I did, I'd either use a wresting tool or a small crescent wrench gapped a little wider than the tooth thickness. A plier would be more prone to slip and blunt your tooth tip.
Thanks for making this video. I live in Harrisonburg and am interested in buying a one-man crosscut saw - do you have a suggestion as to where to look? I just became an overseer for a Massanutten trail for the SSVC chapter of PATC. Thanks!
In the videos by Crosscut Saw Filer he says the rakers should be sharpened to basically „a knife edge“. You say, there should be left little flat spot.
I prefer to use an Anderson gauge with its sloping filing plate. That model gauge will give you an exact and reproducible edge and height. When using a flat topped raker gauge, there is no slope to the cut and you are left with a shiny flat spot atop the raker which can be thinned as you final-shape the raker. If you file away all of the flat spot, how do you know if you've filed too far? If you file past the shiny edge, you will probably cut the raker lower than you wanted.
@@PATCsawyer Ok, now I get it. So it is rather for the purpose of being sure I did not overfile it. Someone somewhere mentioned it could also strenghten the edge a bit.
Hello, I managed to get some old saws (german origin, I assume) for the purpose of cutting firewood for winter. I am sharpening one of the 140cm tapered ground champion tooth saw now without any gauges (could not get any in the Czech Republic, there is about 1 or 2 mentions of such things on the czech and german internet - funny). So I jointed it by hand (needed very little), shaped the rakers, swaged (using hammer and a bolt) and then filed rakers using feeler gauges. Wanted to ask you: 1) Do you think that it is necessary to use the jointer when sharpening once per season (maybe less, I dont know)? 2) What raker depth and set would you recommend for cutting mostly almost dry spruce or pine? (the set is 0,2 mm (0,08inch) and I have the rakers filed (overfiled rather :) to 0,8 mm (0,031inch) now. I am going to test it, when I finish 3) If I overfiled some rakers by 0,004, does it matter much, or not? Thanks.
Many crosscut saw tools can be home made if you're handle with tools, though the raker gauge would need a hardened filing plate. I joint my saws every time I file them, but after the first jointing, I don't need to take them down much. If your saw is a flat plate, I'd file set the teeth at 0.015" and the rakers at 0.010". Those are pretty basic settings. I'd set the teeth on the taper-ground saw at 0.010". Slightly overfilled (low) rakers are more forgiving than unfiled (high) rakers, though your saw will not cut smoothly if your rakers are all different heights.
@@PATCsawyer thanks for such a prompt reply. Should I file down the left raker tip to be the same hight as the overfiled right raker tip, or better leave it as it is?
@@johnytwo It depends on how much lower it is and how many are different. If just a few thousands, leave it alone. If the settings are all over the place, rejoint it and use the lesson as practice.
could you point me in the right direction for a good saw file? I have a 48" one man cc. I own a round chain saw file for rakers, and a big flat file for setting, but i don't know where to purchase the other for the cutters.
youllregretit Sorry for the late response, but Zoro tools now sells 8" crosscut saw files for about 4.00. Though made in India, they are decent files and I have used them on a number of saws.
Oh, and one last thing: I plan on using setting pliers before I do the cutter sharpening, so that I do not dull their tips. What do you think about it?
I mostly hammer set. I set my teeth before filing them, but before I do either job, I profile and shape the teeth to reduce the flat jointing dot. Once set, I complete the final point up. This is an extra step, but it's how I file a saw.
Hi, have just bought a H.Disston 3 foot logging saw.It has the great American pattern of teeth. The problem I have is there is very little information on the GAP.Do I take it the centre tooth is the cutter and the 2 end ones are the raker's.Also it has been set with the 2 rakers pointing one way and the cutter pointing the other then vies versa on the next set of teeth all away along saw or should be as it needs to be sharpened and set.Would this be correct on this type of saw? Regards Duncan
Hello! I was wondering if you have a version of how you sharpen crosscut saws that can be printed off. It would be helpful to have a paper version to bring into the shop with us. Thanks!
The "dot" is actually much smaller than the period at the end of a sentence, but is still a microscopic flat spot at the tip of the cutter. The little reflection tells you that the cutter tooth is still at the original jointed length. If you file past the dot, you have no way of knowing how much shorter the tooth is relative to all the others. A short tooth will just ride along, not do much cutting (severing of wood fibers) and contribute to "whiskered" noodles, which occur when the raker peels out unsevered fibers.
Duncan - I have never filed a Great American tooth pattern. Check crosscutsawyerDOTcom, as one of the filers at this site may have some experience with GA saws.
It appears that YT won't let me post a web address in a comment. For a good discussion on crosscut saw filing and related topics, visit crosscutsawyer(dot)com
Very nice tutorial. Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge.
This how-to is simply remarkable. You have done a wonderful job of showing and explaining the process. Thank you.
i'm a forest service trail volunteer on 4th season. i was allowed to bring home some crosscut saws left outside a shed for years, I've cleaned and filed two of the three i brought home. i worked last week on our historic lassen trail a mix of pine and oak and was surprised at how well it cut oak. in watching your video for the 4th or 5th time it occured to me its a champion tooth (3 ft.). i was checking on a contracted crew two months ago sporting a Dolly Chapman filed saw, immediately fell in love and started an obsession. thanks for your videos
You're welcome. The saw in the video was a little Disston, good saw but not my favorite. The Atkins 390 on my YT cover photo is my go-to saw for single bucking. Dolly is indeed a National Treasure for her expertise and knowledge of traditional tools.
@@PATCsawyer tried to register on the crosscutsawyer forum days ago, to chime in and possibly get some answers to questions i have. has the site gone idle
@@billhackley3540 FB has a good page for saw filing: facebook.com/groups/Sawfilers
I've been posting on that site since 2016. Lots of good saw discussion.
This video is a study in excellence. I set mine across my lap and hit it with whatever file I have within arms reach. Then splash it with turtle wax. Outstanding!
Excellent video and thank you for sharing your expertise! The slideshow presentation allows for stopping, reviewing and thinking through each step before moving to the next. Again, Excellent!
That video was excellent. Have known what the end results should be like, but never could figure out the steps to really reach that end. Much appreciated of your time and education provided.
I thought that I was prepared to sharpen my first cross-cut saw. The saw that I purchased is identical to yours shown with the exception of nearly no wear or overuse. Then I read your RUclips presentation! What a terrific job you’ve done of answering all the questions I had that I thought might be answered in the process. They never would have been because I didn’t realize how particular one needed to be in measuring. Thank you for saving me from frustration and failure.
Thanks. Glad this video still holds up over time. It really helps to have good tools and gauges to keep the filing within close tolerances.
I have read several documents and watched several videos on this subject, learning how to do this by trial and error on two saws that were given to me. Your video supports what I have already learned and further educates me in other areas. Your explanation on filing and finishing the rakers goes another step beyond what I knew.
Thank you for creating this video, I will be referring to it regularly. Too bad this isn't a published document.
You're welcome. If you haven't seen them, the Warren Miller videos are excellent.
Certainly a labor of love. I've been a big fan of the AT since I was a kid and my Scoutmaster finished a thru-hike.
John - The first saw is always the hardest. I tell people to start with a rummage sale beater and practice. Then put your good one in the vise and apply your own personal lessons learned. The raker swaging is a bit advanced and your saw will cut ok with straight rakers. It will run smoother with the straight ones though.
Wow, much more involved in saw blades than I thought! Great work!
Masterful work, sir. I would have much enjoyed using a saw you sharpened, back when I did that kind of work.
Thank you for taking the time to produce this video. I really appreciate the effort you put into this. Much obliged.
great demo, Thanks
What a lot of work! both on the saw and the video. I'm gonna try to do a saw and will keep referring to this video. Thanks for your efforts.
I only looked st 8:07 and your made Setting Anvil! Very nice, i will copy it since there arent any old Anvils in german speaiking Europa online. Atleast i didnt look too far, since my old 2 kg Handhammer did the job aswell.
Thank you!
Great job! You've added to the much-needed documentation of traditional skills, which I think will be very accessible for more people (is the future?). I'm sharpening my own saws, in particular the 3-5 ft saws, since that's mostly what we're carrying in the backcountry in CO and AZ. Currently working on a saw in bad shape, similar to yours. Hope to "salvage" the saw, at times I've become a little down on it, not knowing where to go with things. You've helped me a ton in that regard John Nelson
I've not used that method, but vinegar is a known rust remover. Depending on how rusty/pitted the saw is, you may still need to follow up the vinegar treatment with oil and light sandpaper or steel wool to get it clean.
Excellent video! I just successfully filed my first saw, cut great, but after watching this (despite my previous research), i have learned that I made some mistakes - I'll just do a better job on the next saw!
What mistakes did you make? That video is 12 years old, and while it covers the basics, there are many other steps/techniques that I use now that I couldn't include in the original video.
@@PATCsawyer mostly attention to the rakers. I swaged them right to .012", that left me nothing to dress to final shape with a file. Also I swaged some crooked, so I had no meat left on the tooth to correct with a file. I did the cutters ok, but the angles weren't consistent. That is mostly just due to lack of experience. Also I hadn't heard of rolling the file at the tip like you did. Now I'm itching to make a saw vise and sharpen another!
@@themadmailler Have you visited crosscutsawyer.com? Good discussion and database of filing info. I have a lot of posts on that site. Do you live anywhere near Michigan? Hartwick Pines is hosting their Black Iron days the last weekend of August. Lots of blacksmithing but I'll be the only saw filer there.
@@PATCsawyer I'll have to check out the site! Nowhere near Michigan, but if I was I would definitely check out that event. Thanks!
Hi Pat, Thanks for the advice. I now have 5 cross cut's. I got "tooled up" as this is a long term investment for me and had to get most of them from the U.S.A jointers etc. Well worth the money and I am expecting an Gault 205 soon for one of the saw's. The Disston GM was a dream to file (a good starter saw to learn how to file, as most saw's sold in the U.K. are G.M) and to use not much more trouble than a plain tooth. The only thing is that a knife file is recommended for this saw. Would well recommend getting one. (file and saw) Thanks again Duncan
For basic filing, use the round file for gumming out the gullets and lowering them if necessary. An 8" flat mill file will work fine on the teeth and fit any jointer you're likely to use. An 8" slim taper file will cut the V and shape your rakers. All three are readily available at any hardware store. YT shows me using a cantsaw file, but that's what I had at the time I made the video. Specialty files are not a necessity for this job.
thanks so much. i'll go to the hardware store soon! The saw should arrive this week as well. Wonderful video. It took me an hour to watch, but i'm sorta detail oriented.
Dan,
Thank you so much for this information. Images are excellant! I have been looking for this for some time.
Dennis K.
Thanks so much for posting this. This is one of the references I'm using in getting my first saw in shape. I just signed on for the Powell Mtn. Trail - hope to see you in the woods soon. I wonder why RUclips decided that a related video was 'Danish Girls Enjoying Beach Life In Copenhagen'. I missed the bikini section of your video.
That is a good video .
Great video... I just started getting into cross-cut saws... was planning on putting them up at the cabin but decided to clean some up... I had been only using the ones that were already sharp... might now try and bring back one of the dull one
Thanks. I went looking for something like this when I first started filing, but there was nothing online at the time. So, I decided to make one myself.
No, but I suppose you could stop the video and make a screen grab (ctrl+print) of each frame and paste them into a Word document. Select the frames you want then print the whole doc. If you try this, run the video in HD as it will give you a better quality image.
Very nice video, thanks for making it!
Excellent work ! First thing, to build a maintenance vise.
Thank you so much for sharing this important information. This kind of knowledge is dying and at danger of being lost. Great proper job on the finished product! I run a sharpening business and want to buy a couple of the saws to re furbish so I can add them to the roster of things I already sharpen. I am also interested in learning about the large steam powered sawmill circular blades if anyone can direct me. I will be using your video as a reference. Thank you and God bless!
Dan--This video is GREAT! Thanks so much for all of the information. I have spent most of my life using and filing 6ft crosscuts and now have a handful of smaller Champion tooth saws to work on. I was so happy to find your video. Good job! So, now that I realize I need a new raker gauge for these saws, I'm looking for a Galt 460 or a Simonds #450. Like all of these old tools, it seems hard to find and wondering if you know of anywhere I may be able to find these beauties. Thanks so much.-Lisa
Genius work
This is an awesome guide
Richard - I prefer to hammer set crosscut saw teeth, though on occasion I have used a large Morrill APEX saw set. For the tiny teeth of a bow saw, I'll hold the thin blade in a metal-jawed vise and carefully wrest them with a pliers.
I've never sold a saw as a business venture. I recondition them for trail overseers. Perhaps someone who's interested in traditional tools, or living off the grid would be a customer. I try to keep my price at the break even point which includes finding a good one, having it shipped, replacing hardware, making a new handle, adding a second handle, and making a sheath.
excellent work
Woah. What a tutorial! I have two Disston singles; one common tooth and one with rakers (champion tooth I think?). I’m wearing out brand new files like they’re made of aluminum because I have a similar “high raker” issue, but there are no broken rakers or teeth! I am going to reassess my steps now.
Clear the rust from the plate and teeth tips, rakers from end to end first, then I’ll finish up with the cutters.
Thank you for sharing this! You’re obviously well experienced and there is a Massive Void of truly expert knowledge of this online.
Please let me know if you’re still doing this stuff and if you have anything to add for a true saw rookie. I was tempted to break out the grinder but felt like that would be blasphemy.
If you can recommend a brand new file that works like it’s 50 years old, please let me know! The new files I’m finding in stores are garbage and I can’t seem to put my hands on a good new old stock file for under an arm and leg.
Christopher - I used a cant saw file in the video because it was what I had on hand. Nicholson mill files from most any hardware store should hold up long enough to finish two saws. Some filers like Bahco or other files not locally available, but buying a single file online and paying the ship charge can be more expensive than getting a couple Nicholsons and accepting that they will wear out faster. Ebay is a good place to look for NOS tools but requires patience as "everybody" is looking for quality old tools. Perhaps try FB marketplace. A good source of saw filing info is crosscutsawyer.com The search function is a little slow but there are good exchanges among filers about tools and techniques.
@@PATCsawyer thank you! I Spent last night in the resources and bid on a bunch. Fingers crossed.
I appreciate your input and experience! Thank you!
I’m waiting for my crosscutsawyer username to be approved; hopefully I will run it to you over there. Thank you again!
Anderson Gauge: Set the filing plate of your gauge high and do a raker at one end of the saw. Place a straight edge across the two teeth on either side of the raker and measure that height with a feeler gauge. Repeat until you have the height you want then finish all rakers. The numbered plate is Anderson's version of a pin gauge.
If your saw has a consistent arc (not always the case), place the jointer on the saw and see how many teeth are making contact with the file (shine a light up under the file for a better look). If too flat or too curved, adjust the jointer's screw until all teeth are touching the file. Better to be a little less curved than too much, as the center of the file will ride the curvature as you run it over the teeth. WEAR GLOVES, as files are famous for slipping off the jointer.
You will not likely find a non-named brand tool for this job. Surf Ebay, as there are lots of crosscut saw tools up for auction. Other than the Simonds 342, The Atkins #3 and #4 are execellent raker gauges, but hard to come by, Simonds 550 and Galt 460 are good for small saws, and Atkins #15 is a good pin gauge. I've heard that Disston made a good gauge, but I don't own one.
Great video. Go Hokies!
My 10 minute slide show wasn't meant to be the last word on saw filing. This is something you learn by doing. I'm eight years into filing, and every saw is an education.
The Simonds #342 is a good combination jointer, as it also has a swaging pin and a raker filing plate. The raker pin and filing plate plate may be too wide for your small saw though.
Hi Dan. This video is very informative. Thank you. I am currently sharpening a two man perforated lance tooth saw and I'm having trouble setting the teeth. I'm using an old axe head as an anvil which is heavy enough compared to weights I've read in other guidelines. It seems that no matter how hard I strike the tooth it won't budge. Would you recommend softening the the tooth in any way before setting? Or any other solutions?
Thanks,
Erik
Erik Andrew Lindquist See PM
As I woke up in the middle of the night, it came to my mind, if the jointer tool accounts for the taper ground of the saw plate. Meaning, that the jointer is 90 degrees, but the taper is not. But I guess, that has a negligible effect on filing the teeth flat.
Correct. It's precision work, but it's not rocket science.
Concave side goes down on the anvil over some THIN material that will absorb the hammer strike. Work slowly on this, and don't hammer too hard. You can easily over correct. Modern saws will bend and warp without much effort; older saws will take more work. Other filers may have their own way of dealing with bowed blades. If you can find one, pick his/her brain.
wow, i have the same florescent lamp on my bench
buzz
Great vid. I shot out into the garage to make a start on my small single handed xcut saw (while it was fresh in my head), only to find my tooth pattern is a simple M pattern, not 'champion'.
Q: should the set on both teeth (each 'M') be the same direction or opposite?
Typically, an M-tooth saw has a gullet between each M. The points on each M are set in the same direction and alternate with each adjacent M. Google "Tuatahi work saw" and look at the images.
@@PATCsawyer Thank you so much
Pat, what is your recommendation for how much lower to have the rakers set below the cutters? I am cutting Doug fir, Hemlock, cedar, and a bit of Alder. Also do you have a suggestion for the amount of set for the cutters?
Dan, actually. PATC is a ref to the Potomac Appalachian Trail Club. I would have several answers to that question depending on what kind of saw you're using and whether the wood is green or dry. If you're using a heavy lance-tooth crescent ground saw with two buckers in green wood, set the teeth a little wider and file the rakers a bit lower, say, 0.015"/0.015" respectively. If the wood is dry tighten that up to 12/12, and if single bucking maybe 12/10. This is for trees on trails with some potential bind. If you're cutting firewood rounds in low or no bind conditions, your can tighten the set up more and the saw will run faster. If your saw is flat ground though, open up that set a few thou more. I cut mostly dry hardwood on trails and have my saws set at around 12/10. When I put that saw in green softwood though, it will pull whiskered noodles.
When striking the rake to swage the tip, could one use a brass drift so hands & hammer are not close to saw teeth?
+Dona LeGrand Brass would likely deform when struck against tough saw steel. I prefer to hold the head of a 1/2" grade 8 bolt against a raker tip and strike that with a hammer. Much harder to miss and easier to control the striking angle. Plus, if you look notice the raker putting divots in the head of the bolt, chances are the rakers are very hard and could chip when swaged. If so, consider heating them a little to draw out some of that temper.
Pat , what is the best Saw Set tool for the Cross Cut Saw and the smaller bladed Bow Saw ???
I get most of my saws and tools on Ebay, though I have purchased some large 2-mans from The Axe Hole; I purchased my Gibbs jointer from the Crosscut Saw Company, as the originals are are too pricey; and I purchase my files from Warrensville Knife and File Inc.
@jcorb3380 Do you file the saws you collect?
Any chance you would be willing to make a video on the use of the plier type setting tools? I just can't seem to wrap my head around it.
I think you mean wresting, which bends the overall tooth rather then peening over just the tip like I do with a hammer. I don't wrest my saws, but if I did, I'd either use a wresting tool or a small crescent wrench gapped a little wider than the tooth thickness. A plier would be more prone to slip and blunt your tooth tip.
Thanks for making this video. I live in Harrisonburg and am interested in buying a one-man crosscut saw - do you have a suggestion as to where to look? I just became an overseer for a Massanutten trail for the SSVC chapter of PATC. Thanks!
In the videos by Crosscut Saw Filer he says the rakers should be sharpened to basically „a knife edge“. You say, there should be left little flat spot.
I prefer to use an Anderson gauge with its sloping filing plate. That model gauge will give you an exact and reproducible edge and height. When using a flat topped raker gauge, there is no slope to the cut and you are left with a shiny flat spot atop the raker which can be thinned as you final-shape the raker. If you file away all of the flat spot, how do you know if you've filed too far? If you file past the shiny edge, you will probably cut the raker lower than you wanted.
@@PATCsawyer Ok, now I get it. So it is rather for the purpose of being sure I did not overfile it. Someone somewhere mentioned it could also strenghten the edge a bit.
@@johnytwo I've never broken a raker while sawing, but I also don't thin my rakers to a wire edge.
Hello, I managed to get some old saws (german origin, I assume) for the purpose of cutting firewood for winter. I am sharpening one of the 140cm tapered ground champion tooth saw now without any gauges (could not get any in the Czech Republic, there is about 1 or 2 mentions of such things on the czech and german internet - funny). So I jointed it by hand (needed very little), shaped the rakers, swaged (using hammer and a bolt) and then filed rakers using feeler gauges. Wanted to ask you:
1) Do you think that it is necessary to use the jointer when sharpening once per season (maybe less, I dont know)? 2) What raker depth and set would you recommend for cutting mostly almost dry spruce or pine? (the set is 0,2 mm (0,08inch) and I have the rakers filed (overfiled rather :) to 0,8 mm (0,031inch) now. I am going to test it, when I finish 3) If I overfiled some rakers by 0,004, does it matter much, or not? Thanks.
Many crosscut saw tools can be home made if you're handle with tools, though the raker gauge would need a hardened filing plate. I joint my saws every time I file them, but after the first jointing, I don't need to take them down much. If your saw is a flat plate, I'd file set the teeth at 0.015" and the rakers at 0.010". Those are pretty basic settings. I'd set the teeth on the taper-ground saw at 0.010". Slightly overfilled (low) rakers are more forgiving than unfiled (high) rakers, though your saw will not cut smoothly if your rakers are all different heights.
@@PATCsawyer thanks for such a prompt reply. Should I file down the left raker tip to be the same hight as the overfiled right raker tip, or better leave it as it is?
@@johnytwo It depends on how much lower it is and how many are different. If just a few thousands, leave it alone. If the settings are all over the place, rejoint it and use the lesson as practice.
could you point me in the right direction for a good saw file? I have a 48" one man cc. I own a round chain saw file for rakers, and a big flat file for setting, but i don't know where to purchase the other for the cutters.
youllregretit Sorry for the late response, but Zoro tools now sells 8" crosscut saw files for about 4.00. Though made in India, they are decent files and I have used them on a number of saws.
Oh, and one last thing: I plan on using setting pliers before I do the cutter sharpening, so that I do not dull their tips. What do you think about it?
I mostly hammer set. I set my teeth before filing them, but before I do either job, I profile and shape the teeth to reduce the flat jointing dot. Once set, I complete the final point up. This is an extra step, but it's how I file a saw.
@@PATCsawyer thats exactly what I intent to do. Thanks a lot for your time.
There is a link on my last slide for Alan Boyko. He is an expert filer and sells reconditioned crosscut saws, both one and two person.
Hi, have just bought a H.Disston 3 foot logging saw.It has the great American pattern of teeth. The problem I have is there is very little information on the GAP.Do I take it the centre tooth is the cutter and the 2 end ones are the raker's.Also it has been set with the 2 rakers pointing one way and the cutter pointing the other then vies versa on the next set of teeth all away along saw or should be as it needs to be sharpened and set.Would this be correct on this type of saw? Regards Duncan
Hello!
I was wondering if you have a version of how you sharpen crosscut saws that can be printed off. It would be helpful to have a paper version to bring into the shop with us.
Thanks!
Ive been soaking an old crosscut in white vinegar for the past three days to remove years of rust. Do you think this will harm the saw?
Hello, why do you leave the „dot of unfiled metal“ on the cutter teeth? Does it stay there, or did I miss the point, where you, make it totally sharp?
The "dot" is actually much smaller than the period at the end of a sentence, but is still a microscopic flat spot at the tip of the cutter. The little reflection tells you that the cutter tooth is still at the original jointed length. If you file past the dot, you have no way of knowing how much shorter the tooth is relative to all the others. A short tooth will just ride along, not do much cutting (severing of wood fibers) and contribute to "whiskered" noodles, which occur when the raker peels out unsevered fibers.
@@PATCsawyer thanks for your very informative and prompt reply.
How can I send you a photo of my saw , need help identifying.
Post it on crosscutsawyer.com or this FB site facebook.com/groups/Sawfilers/
Where is the sound?
Duncan - I have never filed a Great American tooth pattern. Check crosscutsawyerDOTcom, as one of the filers at this site may have some experience with GA saws.
It appears that YT won't let me post a web address in a comment. For a good discussion on crosscut saw filing and related topics, visit crosscutsawyer(dot)com
@Williamolsenjr YT won't let me post my full comment, but for some reason lets me make this response. Must be a bad character somewhere.
Sorry, should read G.A not G.M as we know G.M. is "food"!