Which Is The Best Pocket 3 Color Space? Not The One You Think.
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- Опубликовано: 7 мар 2024
- What is the correct color space for the DJI Pocket 3? Everyone seems to shoot with the D-Log color space, but what if I was to tell you the normal color space is the best overall? Would you believe it
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I made a mistake on the title at 7:05. It is normal color space + ND64 in manual setting
Thank you for the free Luts. Personally, I find the Normal profile over exposes my dark skin face even after dropping the EV to -1 and doesn't look natural when outdoors or indoors. It's fantastic for recording anything else except close-up of faces. D-Log M with the DJI conversion Lut still gives me the most natural looking skin tone; the only downside is that I need to avoid shooting when backlit by the sun, then my face gets under-exposed. I also find that D-log M indoors or in low light looks the best with little to no noise in the shadows but the normal profile has very visible noise. I use -2 for the noise reduction and sharpness. With -1 for the noise reduction I get a slight waxy look on my face. I've never tried the HLG but will try it with your free lut and see .
Oh, this is such a helpful comment! I am sure anyone who read it will learn something. And yes, different color profiles work in very different ways depending on different skin tones and also the environment around. If the D-Log was a real LOG you wouldn't have these issues but because it is not real LOG, you have to kind of be flexible... Thanks for chipping in!
This is really helpful. I always use Dlog but maybe now I need to start using Normal. You have defintely made me think about this. Thanks for the video.
Glad you found it helpful!
Excellent video, congratulations. I have some questions for you.
1. When you use the "Manual" setting, what settings do I use?.
2. Are the test videos adjusted in post or did you publish them as they were recorded?.
Hi, thanks for chipping in. I will do my best to answer your questions.
1- I always use 25fps, 1/50th shutter, custom white balance and an ISO as low as I can but without making the image too dark that is a problem in post. I will soon do a video about the best settings to use with the P3. In the meantime, watch this one about the Pocket 2, as the same applies ruclips.net/video/4PigrXcdgkQ/видео.html
2- I did adjust the shots in the grade to make them look the same or simialr to hightlight that regardless of what color space, the footage can be make to look the same, while noticing the pros/cons of using either color space.
This is important to note, if you choose to record in H264, the "normal" mode will only record in 8bit. If you change it to HEVC, the normal mode will then show 10bit capability. Cheers!
Thanks for pointing this out. I am sure many will find this comment very helpful!!
This video convinced me of using the normal color space from now on. I think it does deliver the best results overall
I also shoot on normal mode these days. The footage looks horrible on camera but all you need to do is reduce contrast in post by 10-15% and raise the mids a little and the detail is there. As a matter of fact, it is so ugly off camera that I bake a custom LUT with the settings I gave you above so that I can happily work with the footage rather than tear my skin because it is so ugly. It’s all psychological… 😀😀
@@SamuelSotiega omg I was just thinking if I had done something wrong because I shot a video today and was wondering why everything looked basically black and white because of how much contrast it has. It seems the saying “great minds think alike” holds true since the first thing I did was lower the contrast and tinker with the midtone details in davinci 😂 I also can’t stand the timeline clips looking a mess
Goad that I was able to help you. I crawl up the walls when I see the footage in jornal mode but a little tinkle and it looks normal.
I see a lot of magenta shift when you add the ND filter at 1:04 - does your ND filter have a colour cast or is that perhaps some IR light coming though more pronounced? (suggesting the pocket lacks an effective IR cut filter)
Could be! But remember, this is prosumer equipment. You might get a tiny but, but you can easily correct it in the grade…
Very interesting. I never thoght about that. I am confused too.
You and me both! But I am myself using normal as my color space now.... It feels to me the better overall... What do you think? It is confusing though!
@@SamuelSotiega I use normal most of the time but I am amateur, so it is just my opinion
You use normal when you want the "best" straight out of camera footage. You can also grade it, but you don't have to and you won't have as much freedom if you choose to do it.
You use Log when you need more leeway for more extreme grading. It exposes differently and you have to grade it differently.
You use HLG when you want to produce HDR content for an HDR-capable display. You don't use it for SDR content.
Each color space needs to be graded differently and you can't just compare them directly. Each is a tool for a different purpose. Of course there isn't "a best" color space - if there was one, we wouldn't need multiple ones.
Theoretically, you are right. But regardless of what the theory says, it is down to each individual to decide which color space is best. I just wish they would do true Log and not the crappy one they give us, that would be a good start....
100%... It doesn't make sense to show HLG footage in a comparison video, because it not being shown in HDR on RUclips when mixed with other colorspaces.
@@AndrewCCM i would tend to agree with you. But most people who might ever consider using that color space won’t have an HDR or HLG monitor or screen. It is helpful to show what things will look like if they decide to use that color space as 99% of people probably would. That’s the point I’d like to get across…
I've been leaning more to the Normal color space for run & gun quick turnaround. Then, D-Log. TBH, I stay away from HLG as most monitors aren't HDR so it just doesn't make sense to even use it.
I would agree with you!
So far... for 95% of the time in a wide variety of situations and varied lighting conditions, internal, external, day or night; "normal straight out of camera", does the job. The video looks like the scene I saw.
I think you are 100% right!!
In my own testing and video, the Pocket 3 does have a much better low light performance than my Pocket 2. The official LUT works well too, while the Pocket 2 didn't have an official LUT for the D-CineLike. I wish the Pocket 3's bag from the combo pack is slightly bigger than it is now.
I agree, the P3 is low light is way, way better than the P2…
What if I want to really color grade my footage wouldn’t normal bake in color and make that impossible?
I thought so but all you need to do is reduce the contrast by 10-15% and rIse the mids a little and your footage looks like d-log. But run your tests. I only shoot in normal these days.
I use the Normal mode with dropped EV. Something is off with the DLog-M to me. Maybe if DJI would give us the full DLog. I use Log or Raw on my other cameras, but I don't like it on this device.
I agree 100%!!
The problem with D-Log M is that DaVinici and other video apps can't correctly read files in the that format because DJI hasn't yet published specs for it. For RUclips publishing, until DJI makes the D-Log M spec public, it seems best to stick to HLG and convert to SDR Rec 709 (if that's what you did, I do like the wider dynamic range in your comparisons), or shoot in Normal.
I agree with you and I shoot with nornal nowadays. I have a set LUT that I apply as default to all normal pocket 3 footage where I reduce contrast by 10-15% and raise the mids a bit, you get a lot of the detail back and then on another node you can start to grade to your liking. But at least the raw footage doesn’t look as bad…
Home RUclips Studio Setup In Just 15 Minutes That Anyone Can Do - ruclips.net/video/7pmVLQqjwDc/видео.html
I feel that the D-Log M is a slightly better than the HLG. Normal is ok too but I feel it a little too saturated. But the main reason I use D-Log M with the Pocket 3 is because the Action 4 doesn't have an HLG profile, so they are easier to colorgrade when I have to mix footage from both cameras.
Dlog is not a bad color space, and if you want to match it to the A4 then it is a very good option…
In my opinion Normal and D-Log both look great. HLG often has weird colour casts to my eyes.
I agree. it is down to personal taste. Personally, I am a convert. I am using normal mode now all the time. It feels like it gives me the best overall exposure and look. There are instances where Dlog is better but overall, I feel normal, despite looking ugly on camera, when you grade it, looks more forgiving and easier to make it look nice. Which is nuts because that was the whole point of D-Log. But I feel DJI has put some extra sauce in the normal color space, somewhere...
Are you watching on HDR monitor and/or editing in HDR mode within your editor? If not, it'll look funky and your whites will be blown out in spots... But when displayed on the correct type of display (like iPhone 15 pro or latest MacBook Pro..) it looks awesome. Find some RUclips HDR footage and check it out. If your display isn't capable, the footage will look wonky including blown out areas...
@@AndrewCCM I agree with you and on the right he monitor or phone it does look great. I am also aware than 99% of people won't have a HDR or HLG monitor or screen, so the most likely way anyone will use that color space, if they ever choose to do so, will be this way. I just wanted to highlight the issues, should they choose to do so. This is a tricky one because if you mix footage from different cameras, you might only use footage from your O3 for a few shots so most timelines will be rec709 or SRGB to start with. The HLG footage might never quite look the way it was originally intended… i hope you can see my point…
I like these settings:
4K
50 FPS / Shutter 1/100
Color: normal
ND 16 Filter
Noise reduction and sharpness: what would you recommend?
Either leave it alone or -1 for sharpness and I only touch noise reduction if it is very low light… but davinci resolve does very good NR. Those setting you got seem pretty good to me!! 👍👍
I found I was most liking the normal color space for most of the images; I was least liking the HLG/HDR because it so often blew out the high lights.
You and I share the same opinion!
Do you know what the base ISO for D-Log M is? No one seems to mention this at all.
That is a very good question that I will actually ask DJI and will get back to you with an answer, if they give me one….
@@SamuelSotiega Fantastic!!!. Thanks for making the effort to do that. I just hope it’s not a ‘as low as possible’ answer lol. You will probably be the first on YT that can tell us this.
@@davebassP5 I'll do my best to find this out for you!
For cinematic video D-LOG + black mist filter 1/8
Fair point actually. You might be onto something here! Thanks for chipping in and sharing the tip!
Sure, you can get an extra perhaps 5 % with d-log with some tweaking.
But for 99 % of us, normal color profile is more than fine. It fits the camera perfectly. Just turn it on and record carefree.
I have to agree. Plus itnis actually now 10-bit too so you get the flexibility of grading it the way you like it. It might be too high-contrast but the information in the shadows is still there, just as with D-LOG and it is easily recoverable… But for most people, normal is the simplest and easiest way.
Some people don't like the fake blues in the sky that the Normal space creates.. That's enough to use d-log for many...
@@AndrewCCM you are right! But I have found if you decrease contrast by 10% right away, things start to look more pleasant, and the rest is just about grading it and maybe redice the blue channel a bit. But I do feel choosing either normal or dlog is such a very personal opinion down to taste, that you can’t really say one is better than the other. Difference people will choose different color space…
I think it’s important that folks using the camera understand how hard working in HDR is, and what the actual purpose is. If you are doing what you’re doing then you likely don’t need it. If you have harsh contrasting colors and want to work to fix blown out spots, HDR is perfect.
I agree with you, HDR has a certain way to film for, and to work it. I just wanted to show how most people will use that particular color space and highlight the potential issues.
I have never used anything except normal. So perhaps I don't need to watch the video - but I will soon because I know I will learn something anyway! As I recall it, another guy showed how in the D-log, if you shot your face with light behind, the face would be radically underexposed. In normal, it's fine. I suspect stuff goes on in 'normal' which doesn't happen in D-log, I mean, special exposure assessment and processing.
@cameraconspiracies, I think.
Yeah, I saw that video too. I have been surprised by this test. Because theretically DLOG is the better, but it is not really LOG and in normal there is definitely better exposure. You just reduce contrast and raise the darks and the image has the same data than LOG... I am personally now always filming in normal. It looks ugly on camera, but super easy to correct in the grade. I lave some free LUTs and conversions for each color space in the description, if interested,...
@@SamuelSotiega I've never got into LUTs but I certainly know who to turn to when I start on that path!
If you have the right screen the HLG footage looks good. Much like the iPhone's HDR footage... The areas (clouds) that you show as whites blown out will not be blown out when on the correct display. I am not a fan of the footage when displayed on a non HDR compatible device or it converted to SDR. Also, it's impossible to show the difference (for instance in a video like this) because RUclips cannot show the HDR content in HDR mode when it contains a mix of SDR footage. Uploading a full HLG only clip (and waiting a day or so for RUclips to do the HDR encoding) looks a lot different on a HDR display than the converted mixed footage (or the HLG footage converted to SDR like here in this video...blown out whites).
Enjoy your videos!
I agree with you. I am also aware than 99% of people won't have a HDR or HLG monitor or screen, so the most likely way anyone will use that color space, if they ever choose to do so, will be this way. I just wanted to highlight the issues, should they choose to do so. Thanks for the feedback!
@@SamuelSotiegavery good point. Hoping to educate some people so they don’t think that using that color space for SDR content is a good idea. Have a great Monday! Time for me to go to bed here in Texas. Way too late. Haha
@Cameraconspiracies has been saying normal is better for a long time. And it looks good. Perhaps better than DLog. Which seems odd, because it is 8-bit, not 10-bit. However, youtube doesn't support 10-bit so it's all a bit academic, really. 👍 It looks like you are running a mist filter too?
I am surprised too. I have been using normal over D-LOG for a few weeks now but after this test, I will be using normal permanently. easy to grade and recover the darks, and reducing the contrast gets rid of the ugly look.... It seems DJI has some voodoo magic going on with the normal color space...
New firmware added 10 BIT in normal mode.
Actually, if you look, the normal colour profile is also 10 bit. I have noticed a lot of people don't realise that the normal colour profile is also 10 bit, it does say in the settings where you change from one to the other.
@@frank01709 indeed! and that helps a lot in the grade in getting rid of the ugly over-contrast and funny colors and getting a nicer and more pleasant look... 👍
I feel the difference is so small that it's not worth the time to color grade. In fact, in many cases, the normal option is better.
You are onto something!!
Was it D-Log or Normal at 7:05 ?
You are right. I made a mistake on the text. It is normal+ ND64 in manual setting. I have also pinned a comment mentioning this. Thanks for flagging this up.
You won’t see the real difference. You need to edit the HDR in the REC. 2020 or REC.2021 color space using Premiere Pro.. daVinci resolve or those pro programs that supports HDR editing . Then export to HEVC
You re right, but most people will/would use HDR the way I did, so hopefully they won't because unless used accordingly, best to not use it...
I'm sorry, but you cannot compare or display a video in both HLG and LOG/Normal formats. HLG operates in the bt2020 color space, not 709, and has a different nits value. To accurately showcase the true differences, it would have sufficed to export everything in rec2020 (both as the gamma and color space). This would have allowed the HLG format to fully display its capabilities, while the other formats would not have been significantly affected. Additionally, exporting in HLG would have prompted RUclips to mark the video as HDR, a process that takes anywhere from 8 to 48 hours for conversion.
Having worked with HLG for years, it's a common mistake to mix streams in a 709 color space.
HLG example: ruclips.net/video/Vazzgs7Yb2w/видео.htmlsi=GQXccm2fV6iS5WfN
And you are probably right. But I did a color space transformation and to be honest with you, 95 of not 99% of people will use the color spaces this way, in a rec709 or srgb timeline. I understand there is a purist or correct way to use that color space, but most people won't do it that way, that's just the way it is. So I create content showcasing how most people will use the camera's color spaces and help them understant what it can and can't do. I do provide free LUT with the color conversion for HLG so they can use it in a REC709 or SRGB timeline. I understand you'll probably raise your hands up in the air is anger at what I just said, but try to understand my side of the argument.
This!
@MauroTandol Exactly right. IMHO, If you're going to use HLG footage, it needs to be for HDR content alone...Not intermixed or converted. It will look bad (as seen here).
Normal best
Then hdr
Dlog is trash
HLG/HDR does have a certain look, I agree. I like to work fast and although I enjoy grading I have zero patience, I rather stick to normal as it makes life simpler… But I can see the appeal of the HLG for certification situations…
I disagree. D-Log is great if you know how to color grade it. HLG is meant for HDR encoded video. This video is showing it in the wrong color space and crushed into SDR. It has to be flagged as HDR and compiled as such by RUclips before it will look anything close to how it really should look (assuming you are watching on HDR compatible display).
It seems to me that you don't have much of an idea what you're talking about:
1) HDR and HLG color profiles are meaningless without a proper display with sufficient nits and bits.
2) an ND filter only reduces light to achieve slower shutter speeds. If you use a filter but don't compensate the exposure, logically you're going to have blown highlights...
Just because I test what DJI provides the way 99% of people will use it doesn’t meant I can’t tell the difference between one and the other. Hardly nobody will ever use HLG the way it is supposed to be used. Most people will use HLG, if ever at all, with a color space transformation preset. And I don’t understand why you raise a point about ND filters. I didn’t point out anything specific in the video about it.
@@SamuelSotiega I based myself on your comments below. If you had ever seen HDR or HLG on the right screens, I assure you that you would delete 99% of what you have written. 😉
@@alvaropastori and you are probably right. But 99% of people don’t have HDR screens, or computer monitors, or even make any effort to watch anything HDR. I know you are right, but I cater my content to the most viewing percentage. I am not trying to be difficult or even say you are wrong, because you are not. I hope you can appreciate my reasoning too.
@@SamuelSotiega I think you are right. HDR has become a marketing tool rather than a way to enhance videos. But I assure you that Pocket 3 footage in HLG on a 65-inch Panasonic OLED is impressive