Race, Class, & Culture with Briahna Joy Gray [S3 Ep.10]
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- Welcome to another episode of conversations with Coleman.
My guest today is Briahna Joy Gray. Briahna was the national press secretary for Bernie Sanders and his 2020 campaign. Before that, she was a columnist and Senior Politics Editor at The Intercept. Her work has also appeared in many other outlets like Rolling Stone magazine, Current Affairs, New York Magazine, and The Guardian. Briahna currently hosts the Bad Faith Podcast, which I hope to go on soon.
We talk about how Briahna's international childhood influenced her worldview. We discuss American exceptionalism and patriotism, and whether they're justified, how identity-politics crowds out the issues of poverty in class, the effects of crime in poor neighborhoods, and the cancellation of Whoopi Goldberg. We argue about the extent to which culture is a cause of racial and ethnic disparities. We go on to talk about our cultural obsession with four-year colleges and the prospect of instead supporting vocational schools much more than we currently do, minimum wage laws, and socialism generally.
I really enjoyed this one and I hope you do too.
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Glad you caught the show. Let me know what you think in the comments and I’ll reply as soon as I can. If you’re a regular listener and would like to show your support and gain access to exclusive talks with some incredible minds, check out the Coleman Unfiltered membership here: bit.ly/3B1GAlS
Nothing I've ever heard you say is any bit more insightful than anything one might hear a white high school student say while casually defending white privilege. But I haven't listened to all your content. I practically beg your fans to point me to anything insightful you have ever said but no one obliges. I don't think you have anything to offer other than the image of a black person willing to work tirelessly against the interests of black people. Would you care to prove me wrong? Do have one segment of content you can point me to where you made an original or compelling point? All I'm getting is stuff like "reparations are bad because they are divisive". Do you have any idea how dumb an argument that is? Have you moved on from that yet on to something worthy of considering?
You are supposed to be a thinker. But I think you just present yourself as if you were. I see no substance at all here. Even David Duke, another ignorant denier of racism, has a line of thinking with some semblance of logical construction. His fact base is false and his reasoning isn't great, but there is a discernible line of thought there. I can't find that in your output. Show me I'm wrong. I'm not asking for a treatise, just a point to one clip where you think you are outlining something like an argument. Or one cut and paste argument you think is solid.
I am a Software Engineer. My dad bought me an electronics kit when I was 8 and we built circuits together. It's what got me interested in computers at a young age. That act wasn't just a "parental nuance" as Joy claims. He instilled in me at a young age the value of learning and gave me a love of science(Bill Nye spoke about how if you don't get kids interested in Science before middle school they almost never become interested later). We know that Asian/Jewish families have EXTREMELY high standards within the family for attaining high grades. And what would one predict from that culture of valuing education? Higher incomes and success, which is exactly what we see. All of the data we can look at right now invalidates her belief system imo.
I think she has a bad association with the term "culture". Culture is just a set of beliefs. Beliefs are the engine of action(to quote Harris). If you have bad beliefs, you are more likely to have a bad life. If you have a "bad culture"(i.e commonly held beliefs in a group that lead to bad life outcomes), the same is true. If you had a culture where 100% of the population believed that books are evil devil magic, then one would predict that culture would probably not have high levels of educational success.
Indeed- culture is not just your parental influences . It is what your friends do - your extended family does! We as kids always respond to these external stimuli in addition to our own makeup.
Actually the culture with most universities per population is also the culture whose religion says God wants you to vote, women have been voting in church since at least 1600's which started universal education at same time because God also wants you to learn, read books and go to university if you're capable. Where children did 12 hr shifts in mills before school and still earnt the grades for university. As opposed to the culture of pulling down abolitionist David Livingstone's statue because he worked 12 hr shifts in mill as a 10 year old and mills used cotton as part of slave trade. Same culture that will no doubt hold the Child labourers of third world countries to account for their crimes in production while wearing their produce. Sadly that culture like Scottish Enlightenment is over thanks to fetish of identity politics.
I think the “culture” debate was more about semantics. I think Bri would have just as easily replaced that word with something like “upbringing” - she does say the issue she has with that word is that some people say “culture is intrinsic”.
@@SB-by5mt In modern society, the dominate influence of the parent is overtaken by the influence of the peers of young people, not to mention mass media, of all forms, at a much earlier age. The law of - when America catches a cold we (Black people) get pneumonia, especially applies in cases like this. Those already worst off are more negatively impacted by any negative occurrence in society. Also, those who are ahead and thus have more power, set the rules of the competition to their advantage, to maintain their lead position. Anyone behind generally has to work extra hard to catch-up. These all contribute to disparities, that are made even worst with conscious practices of discrimination.
Black people use to resign themselves to the reality that we have to work harder than most. The old adage that we had to be twice as good to get ahead, reflected this reality, that was willingly or reluctantly accepted. That we can't work hard enough to overcome the dangers to us, that the forces who despise us present, is one of our biggest problems. The mass slaughter of Black lives, and total destruction of Black communities like Greenwood in Oklahoma, is but one example.
It should not be difficult to realize that the 'twice as good' reasoning, should be extended to conclude that we have to be twice as good to one another, if we are to survive. One way we use to express this understanding, was when we started using the expression - 'Black on Black crime'. It never really had much of a positive impact on violence, in our communities, but it did at least express a degree of condemnation of it. Today many Black people say "it is not a thing". They add something to the fact that, people kill people they live near - indicating that, in their mind, they see proximity as the major factor in a crime, and the major consideration in this question, of Black people harming one another. They also add - "no other people talk about them killing one another". That we are talking about a greater rate of violence, and about a people, who of all people, can least afford to act self-destructively, is lost on them.
We can debate about what culture is and how it functions, but I can only conclude that this new attitude that many Black people, or at least many, who are in the public eye, are expressing, does represent or signal a shift in "Black culture". I think the human culture in general, is in need of evolution. The moral, ethical, and emotional evolution of human beings, have not kept pace with our intellectual evolution. We have too great a measure of power, and a greater deficiency, of an ability to place checks and balances on it.
The most important question for society, in my mind is - in a world of limited resources , how much wealth and thus power, should one person be allowed to amass? That intellectuals avoid this fundamental question, and talk about everything but this, is sad, and a sad commentary in itself, on the economic system and order, because they talk about anything and everything, on social media to supplement their income.
@@SB-by5mt That is subculture you are speaking of. Culture is far more than a set of beliefs. Good heavens! Smh
I recently became a fan of Coleman from appearances on Bill Maher and Sam Harris shows. I must say, I love this guy! Very intelligent and seems genuine
Same here, Luke. Any feedback on Coleman's comments on the war in Gaza? How about Briahna .. are you familiar with The Hill, and their stance on Gaza?
@@rywt4zc I think his take is pretty much spot on. While I empathize with the pro palestinian position, I think Bri is essentially a propagandist and I believe is either willfully misleading with her show or just so lost in the ideological bubble that she cant think clearly.
@@LukeXNagel 100% agree with you. It's harmful and alarming how deep into the hate she has gone. I've been researching. The casualty statistics from the "gaza ministry of health" appear to be unreliable. This is starting to come to the surface. Why do people trust these figures from a terror organisation? Bri is an example of why. They do not question anything that suits their agenda. Sorry, end of rant
Yes. Coleman is very accommodating. Soft spoken. Passive and submissive even. For many, he's the ideal type of black guy.
@@Dentsun4228 nice racism bud
Thanks for this conversation! I’m one of those poor white ppl that grew up in one of the poorest counties with the highest overdose rates. My dad was murdered when I was 5, and I watched so many in my family overdose and die growing up.
What’s frustrating for me is that the current climate doesn’t just ignore us, but actively denigrates us with caricature and stereotypes, jeering on our natural disasters and poverty because “you voted for it”.
Here from Coleman’s visit to Bad Faith yesterday and I thoroughly enjoyed both conversations. I think they both (particularly Brie) have such deeply-rooted views that they TRULY need to just go full JRE and let a 3-hour roll! Even better, a “Rising”-style podcast where they deep dive on topics of the week! Yessssss!!!
Coleman is my favourite commentator. I love his low-key interviewing style and incisive questions- 🙏
I loved this conversation. You both hit on so many topics and disagreed productively. It's an art to be able to do that these days.
BJG just had Coleman on her show. The video dropped today on her RUclips channel, "Bad Faith”.
I never heard of Coleman until a few hours ago when I started watching today's video of their newest conversation. Now I'm here watching their prior conversation because that (newer) video was so dynamic and refreshing to hear.
I didn't have a clue what to expect going into watching the video she released today, but was very happy to see that both parties could come to agreements on lots of topics, while exploring each other's differences in philosophy, ideology, policy, etc. But the basic respect is never lost behind those disagreements. And through that respectful discourse more commonalities and understanding were forged.
While I land on Brie's side of the policy side of things, I've always found it important to engage in the type of dialogue that these two seem to exemplify in these conversations.
I definitely recommend checking out their conversation on Bad Faith that she posted today. Basically Part 2 of this video.
Cheers, friend!
I like Brianna Joy Gray but her phobia of the word culture is something to behold. Coleman makes the point that Brianna denies the significance of culture and then goes on to describe it. I made the same point in the comments btl in her conversation with Glenn Loury.
Ultimately leftists always justify their attempts to change language or deny language on the basis that said language could be misused by bad or stupid people. This is part of where the accusation of elitism comes from.
Leftists are all about using government power to get to where they want. That's why it's hard for them to admit it's about culture, because it's nigh impossible for the government to change culture.
Exactly, most of her worldview is straight up paternalism.
YOu give her too much credit.... she is a political hack with a closed mind.
And her background of being raised internationally by her hyper-privileged academic parents.
Whenever she talks like she's part of the black American underclass, it comes across as incredibly dishonest and cringe.
She also loves to platform racists on her podcast. I guess it makes her feel more authentic.
White peoples literally tried to wipe out our culture, yet now they think brainwashing is bad. Should’ve said something when it was being done to us. But since most of y’all are cowards, you said nothing. So we’re not gonna feel sorry for you when leftists program your kids.
1:08:52 We have free public colleges here in much of Europe, yet the poor are still far less likely to go to uni. In fact, your probability of attending college is similarly dependent on your parents education level or income in France and Germany as it is in the US. Cultural norms within communities matter immensely.
If I’m not wrong, England got rig of free college for exactly that reason. Making it free did little or nothing to increase enrollment from the poor, and benefitted mostly the people who could afford to pay
I disagree. When we had free college/university in the US under the GI Bill, massive numbers of working class people took advantage of the opportunity. So, given the one historical example we have in the US, it follows that substantially more people from working class backgrounds would go to college if it were tuition-free.
Further, if one is poor, then currently if you want to go to college you have to take out onerous loans, which is not the case for students who come from middle or upper-middle class backgrounds. W/ tuition-free universities, students from poor/working class backgrounds would not be burdened w/ massive debt.
@@emileconstance5851
College makes people stupider. That’s why Gen z and Millennials are the way they are
@@emileconstance5851 Free college is fine as long as those admitted to college are academically qualified. Admitting academically unfit students to study useless majors will solve nothing.
@@julian65886 I agree that there should be admissions standards, but if one meets those standards, one shouldn't be prevented from going to university because tuition rates are prohibitively high.
I just subscribed! Coleman you not only ask compelling questions and have interesting takes...you also actually listen to your guests.
This was a REALLY GOOD conversation, Coleman. This girl is fresh, bright and an absolutely free spirit - unchained from most of the partisan bi-polar political dogma (with a couple of forgivable exceptions).
I hope you two have a chance to continue this exchange, in the same ‘good faith’, in the very near future.
I have been uncharacteristically lukewarm about the last two episodes I have watched - notably Jeff Maurer (funny guy, but now seemingly a full-time political propagandist)- but this one was a credit to both of you, as an example of respectful, honest and stimulating discussion ….. defending your positions, without a hint of demeaning the counter-view.
WELL DONE INDEED !! Great chemistry - even despite (on the face of it) little underlying common background.
💯💯💯
She’s a marxist! A socialist who worked for the Bernie campaign and regularly talks to Varoufakis and Zizek for political strategy advice and you think she is unchained from partisan political dogma?🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
"merchant class" as Briahna stereotypes t
Briahna has a false stereotype of Jewish immigrants in late 19th and early 20th century as having been "merchants". My grandmother from Galicia was 4 foot 10 because she lacked nourishing food growing up. They lived in what was called a shtetl -- very poor town separated from larger Polish population and deprived of many opportunities. My grandfather worked 7 years in a garment factory with many other Jewish immigrants to save money to buy tickets for three other family members to come here in the basement of a ship. They came here due to severe persecution and were impoverished. They were not in the "merchant class" that Briahna stereotypes. They saw educational.opportunities here as a way for their children to have better futures. Next to food in importance were books. The majority did not come from.privilege as Briahna assumes.
@@franmeyers9087 I read her point as being (although she almost phobically distances herself from the term ‘culture’) that heritage and mindset and an almost instinctive understanding of trading mentality, can have a strong bearing on resilience, even when there is zero wealth to start with.
I think I agree with her - having seen so many cases over time where this tendency is proved.
Important however to distinguish between this and the very real availability of more distant family wealth/resources - which definitely and routinely comes into play in the Indian immigrant context.
Briahna is very intelligent, and so are you Coleman, and both so ejoyable to listen to. My favourite parts of this conversation were when your ideas clashed, but there was never a second of condescension from either side, this to me was a prime example of a conversation held in truly good faith. Thanks to both of you.
This is so good! Two smart people seeking the truth is always interesting to me
Smart? She is unable to admit that a fact is a fact. That is not smart.
@@_DarkEmperor You so called facts, that you've been brainwashed to believe.....I bet you believe Jesus is white?!
One smart person. And Bri
Two people pissing in each other's pockets, which is just an icky spectacle.
Whoopee Goldberg was completely on the money with her comments about the holocaust. 100%
I was really hoping you two would end up talking. Brianna is one of the most level-headed lefties out there, and though I don't always agree with her views or conclusions, she at least provides evidence and reason behind her views. Bad Faith is (almost) always a pleasure and intriguing listen.
I look forward to hearing this conversation out.
I could not disagree more. Bri is a political hack and she has a closed mind on these topics... incapable of seeing truth.
Completely feel the same sentiment. This was such a pleasant surprise to stumble on given I just discovered Bad Faith recently and as a center left, previously center right individual I find the podcast an amazingly refreshing listen. I feel she is very aware of the pitfalls her lefty individuals get into. It doesn't take an extremely introspective person to avoid those tropes or at least be honest about their biases and she achieves that. She also always has a knack of getting right to the meat of the matter in a concise way. Great gal.
@@maisboyfriend How could you possibly go from center-right to center-left in today's environment? Seriously, I'd like to know.... elections this year are likely to show opposite trends.
@@williamerdman4888 I've moved positions over many years on many issues. I'm for redistribution of wealth which I used to not be.. That is not conservative. I'm pro-choice which is not conservative. I'm pro gay-marriage which isn't conservative, to name a few examples. Higher taxes on the wealthy.
I'm not far left because I'm for interventionism under certain circumstances. I'm not really sold on a wealth tax but rather a VAT tax. I think transgender activism has lost the plot. I think identity politics is not just a fact of our world that everyone does as Briahna claimed; It's something we choose to do and don't have to do.
Speakiing politically and not ideologically is much easier to explain. The right wing has completely destroyed itself lol. There is absolutely no way I could imagine myself voting for most of the projected Republican candidates or try to renew their seats given how monstrous their behavior has been during both COVID and that following election cycle. Fundamentally undemocratic behavior and the cultic embrace of an obvious conman to own the libs.
@@maisboyfriend You were never center-right. You ignore many facts when make your pronouncements.
I have voted Democratic, Republican, and Libertarian over many years. But the movement of Democrats in this country is so hideous on so many policies and Biden is such an embarrassment that I have given up on the D. The Kavanaugh hearings were a real turning point for me in part because I voted for Feinstein multiple times but her behavior at that time and the Dems that followed revealed a lot to me. I just don't think I can ever pull a Democratic lever again... and I expect a landslide this year in the midterms.
I really don't think things can get much worse in this country than they are today and I admit, I hold the Dems responsible for it.
This was another great conversion! Really appreciated Brianna's strong pushback on many of the points that listeners of this podcast may take for granted. She did a great job defending left viewpoints, and I look forward to the follow-up on the Bad Faith podcast.
She actually shows the insufferable elitism of the left. She is casually sure of herself while being either shallow or just plain wrong on a multitude of topics. And the vocal fry... Ugh.
@@WhizzingFish12 I hear you on the vocal fry, but people can't 100% control the speech patterns they pick up based on where they live / what social circles they exist in. Almost no one actually chooses their speech patterns. I try to check myself when I start getting annoyed with vocal fry (practiced while listening to Ezra Klein, first for a few minutes at a time and gradually increased the dose).
In all seriousness, I didn't find her insufferable. I thought she engaged in good faith rather than trying to score woke points, and was very charitable. I may disagree with her politics and economic views, but I appreciate the quality of the conversation.
Great talk! I took turns agreeing with one or the other. The world needs more good faith discussions like this. I first saw Briahna with Glenn, and he really doesn't push back on his guests enough, though it was still a good talk. Coleman pushes back a bit more, which is important for conversations to move forward. I agree with both of them on different points, so I love to see them hashing out their differences. Keep it coming, please!
Glen came on Bri's show pre-emasculated by his wife who told him to be on his best behavior with Bri or else! Hence no "push back" let alone much push of any kind during that episode.
@@twntwrs Yes, though I think he has a lot of respect for Bri, and even a kind of affection, so I think he preferred having more of a conversation than a debate. Bri of course is always up for a debate and seems to have a natural inclination to push back on points she doesn't find persuasive.
@@emileconstance5851 "Of course"? The fact that she still hasn't had John McWhorter on her show suggests she is decidedly *not* "always up for a debate".
@@twntwrs She would debate McWhorter or anyone for that matter. She debated Chomsky--McWhorter isn't even in the same league as Chomsky when it comes to debating, so I'm pretty sure she'd relish the chance to debate him.
@@emileconstance5851Chomsky is an old fool-lmao
The culture talk was like watching someone talk to a brick wall. Especially the education and culture part. Everyone understands that all individuals have individual experiences, but for someone that belongs to a social constructionist school of thought, she is incredibly hesitant to attribute any educational outcome to culture(a social influence).
Assigning agency to the individual when its useful, and systemic social influences depending on what protects the ideology best
Yeah that was really strange. Why the heck would culture be intrinsic?! Genuinely. As far as I'm aware I genuinely thought that'd be maybe at most some fringe KKK groups or something. Glad Coleman pushed back so hard on that.
Her real hangup seems to be the idea that culture can be changed by individuals inside it and therefore rests inside individual responsibility. Got forbid We put responsibility on people and not systems
@@Shemdoupe It's quite interesting that people feel comfortable talking about her hangs, without considering their own. You can place responsibility on the individual as much as you want, but this whole argument reeks of ignorance of the responsibility citizens have to each other, the responsibility citizens have to the state, and the responsibility that the state has to the citizens, all of which are dynamic and ever-changing. However, one thing is for certain, individuals do not have the ability to subvert and overthrow a government, especially one that is as well organized as America's; I mean, unless you're Superman. If that were the case, it would be social upheaval every time there was a transition of power, whether someone gets voted out or dies. Institutions, especially governing ones, are supposed to survive the individuals that built them, or how useful can that governing entity be?
@Michaelangelo I finally reached that portion of the discussion and everything Briahna said was 100% accurate. Often times, especially historically, Black people's lack of progress has been attributed to "bad culture", and almost every argument after that results in culture being intrinsic to the sophistication, or lack thereof, of the people. To be more clear, generally people try to connect culture to IQ, which you resort to in your own comment. All the while, people like you and Coleman will refuse to acknowledge the ways in which outside forces will help to develop culture, which is what Briahna was getting at. Coleman made a comment that it's almost impossible for government to change a culture and that's a God's honest lie. It is written all throughout American history how government helped to shape American culture, with modern monetary/wealth culture being born out of government redistributing wealth, developing social programs for Whites, government backed credit, housing, land grants and land grant colleges, banking, jobs programs, etc., but will fight against this truth because it doesn't fit THEIR narrative.
@@robertreed9818 The fact that you made two comments in support of BJG, one before even listening to the segment and then one after, shows that you're just an uncritical lapdog rushing to her defence before you actually hear the nonsense she ended up spewing out. You've shown us your opinion is worthless and you cand be trusted.
Great conversation - I love the point about a wage subsidy over a minimum wage. The value of labor is fixed by the market - the ability of low wage workers to afford housing is a function of housing availability and real estate market forces which are very complex and nuanced. Provide low wage workers with affordable housing and have taxes from local businesses and commercial property owners subsidize their rent.
"Wage subsidy" is just another way of saying higher taxes.
Is it possible that growing up from the age of 9-17 overseas where there isn't a pronounced "black sub-culture" had an effect on your views and mainly your views towards diversity? It seems that this is left out of a lot of conversations. Black Americans that grow up abroad have vastly different outcomes in life than their American raised counterparts.
you are 100% right!,
i moved to mexico during my early-mid teen years,
and after seeing the type of hardworking attitudes and intestinal fortitude the people showed (despite the obvious hardships they have to face) today,
i can't stand even hearing americans constantly piss and moan about the system they breed life into,
especially since i know that america's way of life is basically an expensive privilege that's maintained by poorer people in other countries only to be minimized for the majority and maximized for the top minority.
@@shelbyspeaks3287 I spent years in Honduras in my early teens and in Germany in my early to mid twenties. It’s something people, especially leftist apologist don’t speak about because it runs counter to the argument of victimization.
No shit. People who didn’t get exposed directly to American BS hypocrisy and racism are a bit naive. Makes sense why it’s taken her so long to wake up to the lies of America. Did you get your talking points from a right wing think tank? You probably read Thomas Sowell and parrot his BS.
Maybe not even so much the “black sub-culture” as the entitled, crusading STUDENT sub-culture that feeds it …. and in truth absolutely overwhelms it.
USA is by no means the only country to have its share of ‘bolshy’ students - but it seems to the only place where they are actually indulged and taken seriously !!
@@mikegray8776
ikr?
being the worst version of yourself carries this weird respect in america,
being an asshole is seen as being "a real one"
while being a good person is seen as weakness,
I dunno if people don't notice that or if they just would LIKE to think that they are better people than they really are,
who knows ψ(｀∇´)ψ
I am fan of BJG and have been for awhile. The more I hear her describe what she positively believes to be true, the more I agree with her. Where I tend to depart from her is that she always seems to downplay or dismiss the anti-productivity of woke rhetoric, even while in the next breath very clearly condemning the corporate democrats focus on symbolic woke issues. Mr. Hughes raises the issue of "what's a white person supposed to do when attacked by this rhetoric" - Ms, Gray more or less dismisses this as a concern. I think this is because she is considering the issue as a media producer in politically oriented media, rather than considering it as a citizen or a person just trying to get through their day in a corporate job or a university job or a government job. She seems to think of her own example to just go there and take on those issues directly without considering the cost to a person who is not making political speech their career. To a more average person, the negative pressure to self-censor is real and the repercussions are real.
To me, she seems relatively financially secure. I'm not saying she's rich by any means but well situated compare to the common person. This security allows her to take on those issues directly without worrying about repercussions. The average person needs that pay check just to survive. There's no safe place at work.
@@doggydude4123 Yes - and no safe space in community either. More and more the person who wants to focus on reason, evidence, and practical steps (as opposed to symbolic speech) finds themselves socially ostracized from the Democratic rank and file.
I think she actually does not enjoy the rhetoric. Check out what she says in her video with fd signifier about language on the left
BJG is an extremely adept player of the political media card game. Just don't expect her to change it to bowling.
I will note that I resoect her willingness to talk to a person that many in the woke cult would love to violently silence, given the opportunity.
Credit where credit is due.
A willingness that, strangely, has not yet extended to John McWhorter.
@@twntwrs What are you talking about? McWhorter has been on Coleman’s podcast twice.
@@bettinabarr9107 Whose willingness did you think " *her* willingness" in the OP that I responded to is referring to?
Not sure whether yours is a reading comprehension or trans-wokery gone mad issue. It's often both these days.
@@twntwrs Nice of you to assume things about my beliefs, thanks friend. You were talking about Brianha’s willingness to talk to Coleman. Then you said that willingness has not yet extended to John McWhorter. Are you talking about her willingness to talk to him? Cuz that was not at all clear from your comment.
@@twntwrs This is a strange assertion to make considering Briahna has gone on record with plenty conservative personalities. This almost reads as a callout that she's ducking John McWhorter, when she has gone live with Glenn Loury before, and he often does videos with John.
Great discussion between two brilliant people thanks you both
i also found out about coleman through her. i'm almost as old as HIS parents but admire both of these "crazy kids".
I don’t necessarily agree with most of Briahna’s political views but she is so incredibly bright and compelling. We need more honest journalists like her.
She’s not a journalist nor honest
I find Coleman clearer and much more succinct although both are great to listen to and I enjoyed the conversation thoroughly. They have a very different approach to communicating ideas. One question I have for Coleman is, does one need to be Black to talk about the subject of disparity between the different racial groups in society (as was stated by BJG in Coleman’s conversation on Bad Faith)?
I love that queen 🌹🌹🌹 she's amazing
Great conversation! I thought both had clear areas of strength! Coleman definitely made the correct, and stronger arguments, but I think Bri speaks so clearly to race-related issues and identity politics and what it is and is not.
Coleman's wage subsidies argument instead of a 15$ min wage is absurd. That's gonna be a no from me dog
Owning and running a business is rarely the same set of skills. Briahna seems to gloss over this fact and suggests that there is some kind of theft occurring when a business owner turns a profit from their employees labour. Anybody is free to go out into society and start their own business and anyone that has will have a hard time not hearing her comments as desperately naive. In the early years, it is very possible that a business owner will be working for much less $ per hour worked than they pay their employees. Her $5 of wood scenario illuminates her lack of awareness of the logistics and overheads involved in sourcing and transporting the wood, creating a safe and capable environment replete with machinery to do the work, not to mention insurance and benefits and the endless need to invest any equity and any potential profit into the growth of said business... all of which comes from the $5 that Briahna assumes is profit. The worker turns up on time, works and then gets paid and is free to take their labour anywhere they choose. That reality is only made possible by the business owner.
Exactly, I was kind of shocked anyone as eloquent and seeming well educated as this young woman would put forth that example. If starting and successfully running a business were a simple a matter of just putting up the capital like she puts it the whole stock market wouldn't exist. Why invest in someone else's company when you could "simply" start and run your own. Of course anyone with enough intelligence to follow the conversation between Coleman and Briahna will quickly realize why. Running a business is often like working two full time jobs in the beginning. And even after a business becomes stable oftentimes owners are the first in and the last out the door. Not to mention you are risking your investment. Many if not most start-ups fail.
Comparing Marxist theft to employee ownership programs is like comparing a scam artist to a stage magician. Sure both make a living, but how they do so is an important distinction.
Some business owners work at the business they own and some don't. Of the owners who do work at their business many of them do work hard and few do very little work. Now it is just common sense that workers get paid less than their labor generates for the company. Why would any business hire someone if that persons job didn't help generate profit? If people got paid exactly how much money they generate for a business, then businesses wouldn't be able to function. It's a symbiotic relationship between workers and a business. Without the worker the business doesn't make money and without the business the worker doesn't make money. This is all just plain common sense.
@@siggyincr7447 Certainly. Maybe the problem (if I'm not assuming hyper corporate awareness here) is that the concept she speaks of uses far too broad a brush to paint over the thousand nuances. Certainly there's a point to be made when considering Amazon warehouses, Chinese labor factories, the WalMart monolith or most any Mc-Franchise. Or even the likes of a Chainsaw Al Dunlap, or some of the more tawdry adventures in late-model free enterprise found lying around the econosphere.
But again, that broad brush serves no purpose. Suggesting all is bad and none is good. Or vice versa, for that matter. Which is where partisanship grows a pair of peaky blinders every time. Small business is what it is. Some will pick on it because the monoliths up at the top are just too powerful to threaten. Which betrays a loose and sloppy approach, a need to poke something just for the sake of it.
This is an underrated comment. Her argument here was extremely shallow and unaware of how incredibly hard it is to start a business successfully.
I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. We need more conversations like this!
Very well done Coleman.
Excellent! Culture is what we must focus on if we are to reach our potential. Culture is malleable and some cultures pretty better outcomes than other cultures.
If we foster a culture of respect, hard work, academic excellence, and virtue we will find that every people group in America will succeed. Nothing will hold any one back.
Her podcast is called bad faith and I think we witnessed some of that in the discussion when she would not agree to the simple and obvious fact that the way people parent their children makes a great difference in the way the children’s lives turn out.
She even did agree with Coleman. She said: "we could call it potatoes" (see 59:48 and following). She did take it on in good faith. Good faith doesn't mean 100% agreement, it means: sincerity of intention; bad faith means: intent to deceive. I think they're both in good faith and think the other is too. I just don't think the disagreement was really resolved and so the discussion goes on.
I think BJG is just very aware of the dog whistle that "culture" is sometimes used at, just like Coleman explain a bit before. So if she'd go ahead and agree to call it culture, then she'd also sort of playing into those dogwhistling hands. This makes me think a lot about this discssion...or (verbal) fight I saw in the hallways at university one day. An anthropologist and sociologist were shouting at each other about what culture was. The sociologist kept getting so frustrated and yelled that culture is like nation: a huge thing, this was the original definition. But the anthropologist said that you could distiguish subcultures too. etc. etc. Well, this discussion also has a history with a political narrative with it. I'd be a lot easier if everyone said: you can have multiple overlapping cultures: you can be black, millenial, youtuber, etc and have those three different identities that all ahve some sort of culture attached to it. But in the larger political media sphere it's not used like that (like she said 1:02:22 and further). When people say soemthing like: "the problem is black culture", maybe they mention one or two things, but there's rarely a discussion about what you can do to fix it, how you should fund things that require money, what obstacles proposed changes might give rise to and what to do about those. It's been my experience that the media just likes 3 minute filled with soundbites and not an hours long discussion with the intent to actually inform.
So...yeah, I understand BJG's hesitence, to me she seemed quite open to it.
I may not always agree with Bri but I do respect her and her opinions.
Briahna is one of the few people on the left that are able to have a conversation without embracing the role of the noble victim or preaching racism 24/7. She is extremely charming!
@Down with Corporate Amerika In my experience most tend to try to shut down the opposition by using the R word. The only ones with an open mind are centrist blacks like Coleman, Loury, or McWhorter.
BTW, why do you hate corporations? Do you hate Elon Musk? Why do you hate them?
@Down with Corporate Amerika if you don’t agree with people that are on the far left they generally get angry and walk away.
Marx Was 100% correct with his Analysis of capitalism. The message of Karl Marx and Socialism is very compelling every generation. The problem so far is that the prescribed remedies have not worked. As soon as a better system comes along I will go for it. Capitalism does not create equality, in fact I believe equality is impossible. Any system that tries to impose equality results in a massive disaster. Humans exist in a natural gradient of talent and competence. It is very difficult to alter the natural state of humans. Within this context Capitalism works better, however it does not alleviate the inequality and the fact that few climb to the top and Many end up in the gutter. The Nordic system of capitalism with a generous social welfare seems to work in small nations where there is common culture and goals. However at the end of the day it is capitalism that creates the wealth in the planet. 2022 is the most prosperous year in world history.
I do not mind people like Elon Musk. He made his money by creating a small company which he sold and then moved to PayPal. From there to Tesla. He has created several additional companies to include satellites, rockets, communications, new forms of transportation, and perhaps a new phone. Last year
Musk paid 11 billion dollars in taxes and he employs thousands and thousands of people. Th economy would be better if we had 1000 Elam Musks. Our lives are better because of hyper creators like Musk, Gates, Henry Ford, Westinghouse, etc.
.
@Down with Corporate Amerika Socialism works well in small groups where there is kinship. When it comes to my family I am a socialist.
The problems with socialism are: (1). You need coercion to establish a socialist nation. It is no wonder socialists nations were authoritarian. (2) the lack of private property and personal incentive leads to very poor productivity and creativity. "It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer or the baker that we expect to eat our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest."
Elon Musk just plays by the rules. IN America 6-8 weeks of vacation is not common. German workers are very efficient and productive and likely make up the time in producing. They also prefer 30 hour per week labor. A typical business man tries to maximize profit so he will play by the local rules.
BTW, those that wok in small mom and pop private business often get much more than an employee that works for a huge bureaucrasy.
Lastly hyperproductive creators are important in all societies.
Dearest Briahna,
I made the same mistake you have on the demographics of Asian immigration. When someone touted their culture of educational and occupational success, I reflexively responded "selection bias - these immigrants are all doctors and engineers".
But it seems that is not the case. The Asians fighting so hard to.maintain the admission standards at NYC science high schools are mostly working class. Otherwise they would just send their kid to a private high school and not give a rip about the public system. I read somewhere that a good percentage of the kids in those science schools qualify for free/reduced lunch, including the Asian kids.
It's an interesting thing that after some century and a half of Asian (and particularly Chinese but not limited to) involvement on American soil, there is so precious little literature that explores in any real depth, the lived experience of Asian people that were kicked around by white America. We have a certain amount of information about the Japanese internment camps in WW2, the Chinese head tax, and certain uprisings and pushbacks mostly which happened in California in the 19th Century.
But there is infinitely more material, and a wealth of stories that cover far more ground than just this. Amy Chua is one of the few Chinese American scholars and intellectuals who has devoted real effort into exploring Asian American history and its impacts. Anchee Min also, to a lesser degree.
But unlike other ethnicities over the past century and a half, we just don't have the cultural artifacts that wake us up to an Asian American experience. For whatever reason that might be.
Interesting that the thing that apparently grabs our attention foremost, is how incredibly successful so many Asian students are academically. As if no other aspect of their evolution through generations of American involvement was enough for us to notice.
So should we be so shocked to discover that poor Asian families produce such brilliant academic success stories?
One small commentary about that culture: (I am no expert!) In China now, as it is, there are two avenues open for hundreds of millions of young people, top to bottom in socio-economic status (although the bottom is almost out of the race). Slave away (and I use the word slave with intent) in factories until aged out and then it's either back to the home village or possibly something worse. Or rise up through education.
If one has a reasonably good look at what factory life in China is really like, one can readily imagine an attitude of wishing to move heaven and earth in order to avoid such a fate, if at all humanly possible.
What I really mean to say is that memory of this, impact of this, the reality of this - is something very much hauled over to North America, and so on the minds of most adults raising children. Which is why the absolutely draconian (by western standards) attitude toward schoolwork, study, discipline and just plain hard work, is such a no-brainer.
The opposite to it is hell on earth. Just that.
In closing. People need to talk. I know far more from random conversations carried on with diverse people who will open up and discuss all kinds of things with someone who wishes to hear their stories with no strings attached, than I can ever know by tapping into existing literature. On my campus is a very large library with a separate library within, devoted to East Asian studies. There is a wealth of material in there, almost all of which is in Mandarin script. Which means I'm out of luck - so very little of it ever gets translated, and more than likely I can take this to mean that there is no demand. Pity.
Yes, I taught esl to recent Chinese immigrants. Many of their families came from poor rural areas, many Chinese Stuyvesant studies came from.non-English speaking families many of their parents working all day, six or seven days a week in laundromats and Chinese restaurants.
as someone who speaks chinese , let me tell you, their educational culture is not to be emulated on a societal level. those kids pay their whole lives to live 12 other people's dreams by learning the rules and beating the system-teaching others to do the same is not the solution.
Glenn Loury tried to inform her of this. He told her that poor non English speaking Chinese immigrants are outperforming their (black) peers in NYC. She didn't address then and she didn't address it now.
Even if it was selection bias, those values still ring true for success.
@@MauricXe i don't know why she would deny it because Loury's point is still wrong, and hers is right. I chalk it up to her american liberal background she's trying to break out of, and lack of rigour. I mean, class isn't some simple schema only defined by exclusion, those immigrants are of a completely different class position than working class US black people. Nor is class caste- there are pockets that can move up and small groups of highly solidaristic outsiders who are selected already for grit, IQ, and "collectivism" are fresh meat for mobility.
But supply and demand mean that copying either them or the uneducated creates an arm race, it doesn't change the game of musical chairs to a different game. I don't think BJG actually cares which ethnic group is at the bottom, Loury does. In fact the reason someone like Loury, who is frankly smarter than Grey is wrong is entirely his ideological allergies and cold war era closemindedness that keep him out of touch today.
Many of the Asian students who are also being discriminated against due their overwhelming success are often the sons and daughters of immigrant rice and vegetable farmers. Parents who had little education, but enough drive to start a small business; open a donut shop, a sewing sweat shop, etc., in order to give their kids something the parents were deprived of in their country of origin.
The parents arrived with little to nothing and no education, and their kids are the most successful ethnic group in the country.
Brianna, your argument does not hold up on this topic.
That is culture.
1) So how do you get other "cultures" to follow something closer to the "Asian model"? How do you get parents to do the hard work of putting their kids on a course that will allow them to flourish? Parents typically pick up parenting styles from their own parents, so how do you change how people parent, thereby changing a culture? I don't know the answer.
2) Most of the Asians who do well in the US--particularly South Asians--do go to college/university, and often have multiple degrees including advanced degrees, so I think Coleman and Bri were both off in downplaying the role that a higher ed can play in increasing one's economic opportunities (and this is borne out in countless studies, and can be seen evidenced in data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, which show quite plainly that the further one goes w/ one's education, the greater one increases their likelihood of earning a high income). Note that neither Bri nor Coleman went to trade school.
@@emileconstance5851 you don’t. That’s called freedom of choice
@@hlewis5847 Freedom to live in your own skull-sized little kingdom. How dreary.
It amazing to hear Americans consistently talk about Asians and success. What you are really meaning to say is that Chinese immigrants have come to America and succeeded. And the Chinese immigrants come from a Communist Economy, not a Capitalist one. China has literally obliterated poverty by spending 100 billion on the issues and actually relocating their peasant population. America does not care about its impoverished population in the same manner.
@@emileconstance5851 Spot on in both points. I think to a great degree you are driven by your life experience. Most immigrants have typically experienced much tougher environments than any American group and are thus much more success driven and more appreciative of the country where success is possible through hard work. Frankly they also represent those who are brave enough to leave their home culture for a foreign one. 5hat takes a tough person. Then they pass this success ethic to their children. Interestingly though, usually by 4th-5th generation this begins to dissipate as they become Americanized. Re changing low-ed, low-drive culture, frankly the economic supports for self-harmful behavior need to be removed. Single motherhood for example should absolutely be stigmatized and certainly not valorized or rewarded. Its the #1 driver of poverty, crime, prison, etc. We stigmatize smoking or drinking while pregnant bc its harmful to infant - we should do the same with those who get pregnant in a way that hurts their child's chances of success also Harsh but true.
Youre also correct re higher ed and economic success - depending on the degree field. But university is not for everyone ans those who don't attend should have free or greatly reduced access to trade schools, tech schools, etc. Everyone should be able to earn a decent living through hard work.
Great discussion! While I like Briahna, this is my second time hearing her cite a claim about the educational attainment of black women. No data that I could find support her claim that black women are the "most educated" group in America. Will a fellow listener point me to her source because she says this with such conviction?
Why do you care? Y’all are major haters
@@davruck1 I'd really like to know what she is referring to, seriously.
@@davruck1 how does that comment signal a "hater"? And more importantly, the fact that you think the validity of a source for a bold claim does not matter, says something about our education system...
@@davruck1 bot
I've seen articles about this before and it's one of those buckets of data you can skew in different ways. I think it's more accurate to say black women achieve much higher education compared to black men, much higher than white women versus white men.
Whether you think this is says a lot of positive things about where black women are headed or is a condemnation of black men is a whole other story.
I'm a fan of Briahna but I find it ironic that her podcast is called bad faith but the way she's used this stat about black women is in exactly that manner.
The problem with Briahna's first principle of intrinsic value of human life is that it's rooted in idealism, not in reality. The value in society, in banding together in the first place, is that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Eliminating duplication of labor, allowing specialization, these allow for a higher quality of life for all participants. And to some extent, a society can carry non-productive members without seeing a noticeable drop in that quality of life. It's easy to make the argument to support retirees, for example. The foundational work they did allowed the current generation of product members of society to reach greater heights than if they'd have had to start from ground zero. Standing on the shoulders, as it were. It's much more difficult to make a utilitarian argument for people who have conditions that prevent them from ever contributing to society in a meaningful way. Those people are simply taking from others without giving anything back. And so arguing that the productive members have a moral obligation to give to the never-productive members assumes no similar moral obligation on the part of the never-productive members. It ignores the basic tenet of fairness. When you force a person to labor for you when it provides no benefit to them, well, that's what slavery is.
Amen. You took the words right out of my mouth. Thank you.
Well you’re living in slavery then.
Very true my friend, the game theory is crystal clear, but most people would rather be stuck in that ideal worldview, mainly due to fear of making the leap of what that means for yourself.
that's sort of the marxist analysis -the capitalist, the landlord and the poor are parasites, the skilled worker to some small extent farmers do everything.But, the issue is , how do you define productive? It seems that most of what people would do if they were rich or had leisure time , is enjoy things made by people who aren't classically productive. I mean is a comedian or a hot girl productive?
"I challenge you to this and that and blah blah blah, do better"
I've gotten to the point where whenever someone says this I immediately doubt their goodwill
It's just such a sorry excuse for a rhetorical tool--the use of it indicates that you are probably more interested in lecturing me or obtaining some kind of power-relationship over me than searching for Truth or solutions together
This was a great conversation. I went back and forth in agreement from Coleman to Briahna. She lost me when she professed her alignment with socialism and the work of Dr. Wolf. I doubt this would reach her, but please watch one of the many debates between Dr. Wolf and Dr. Friedman. I was broken of my alignment with socialism.
Lmao
Both base their arguments on an ideal. I have yet to hear a capitalist describe socialism correctly, but I'll try this debate, I think I have already but we'll see.
thank you bro. Your perspective and courage is very important for the trajectory of black people. Corporate capture of government is equivalent to CRT's capture of the core historical context for our unique collection and heirarchy of needs.
In my effort to ground my own political views and work, I found you, and through you i've found Briahna. She has helped clarify thing i've intuited and your conversation with her helped refine.
Thank you🙏🏿😎🤟🏿
I am based in NY/CT
1hr 04 onwards is so important. How do we change culture? As Coleman said, it's near impossible and absolutely can't be done by government . And this means there is no political solution. And if you are compassionate and open to new ideas (the psychological profile of a leftist) then you are unlikely to accept this political impotence. Caring elite people struggle to accept that they have limited power to help. So the desire to do something becomes a willingness to try anything. And those who disagree could, in Brianna's view, be fairly categorised as acting in bad faith as she believes that a good faith person would be offering solutions. But what about those who just don't think government can fix this? She is identifying humility as bad faith.
It so funny, I always think of Briahna as dealing in bad faith.
We can change culture, and it can be done by government.
@@emileconstance5851 Sorry, Coleman is correct on this.
@@williamerdman4888 There are many examples that prove Coleman is wrong on this point.
Take, for example, the GI Bill, which was a government program that allowed countless millions the opportunity to go to college for free, and also offered low-interest zero down payment home loans. The GI Bill provided opportunities for many poor and working class people to go to college and purchase a home, which resulted in their movement from the poor/working class into the middle class. There you have it--this is government changing culture: people, regardless of upbringing/culture, would go to college and buy homes, when many of them would not have done so in the absence of the GI Bill: millions of poor and working class people becoming part of the middle class as a result of a single government program proves that Coleman is wrong on this point.
"How do we change culture?" By changing the inputs that children are exposed to, in their formative years. It's not something which turns on a dime, but it will have an effect over multiple generations
"it's near impossible and absolutely can't be done by government" There are many inputs the government can't really control, such as home environment. But there are also inputs it _can_ control, for instance mass media advertising. So while there no magic button government policy solution, government policy could still bend the culture somewhat
You have to get the right job for your skills and likeness. College is not for everyone. You have to have self awareness and be able to access what work you would do well at. Your mindset of making a living plays a big part in making a living. If you think you deserve more than what you get or that you think people owe you something then you have the wrong mindset.
I listen to Briahna’s show and can attest that she explains her positions very well and doesn’t avoid criticisms of her views… BUT I have to say in the portion of THIS conversation about culture, for the first time ever, I perceived her to be “on the run” rhetorically speaking. Mind you, that doesn’t mean I will find her position to be ultimately wrong, but it did seem to me that she wasn’t about to defend it against Coleman’s critiques/questions.
She really couldn't defend her positions because most of them are rooted in Marxism.
As she said, culture isn't a choice people make... Until people like her intentionally choose to avoid critiquing their cultural (and are only willing to blame other cultures)
Because she can’t. She’s a living breathing conundrum. I feel bad for her. She seems very well intentioned and genuine, but also indoctrinated.
That's great, but just about every word out of her mouth is wrong. She's an eloquent liar, but a liar nonetheless.
"...on the run"??? From what??? What compelling narrative, concerning culture, do you believe Coleman provided???
Yet again, Bri makes many good points.
Briahana nails it. As a restaurant owner we raised our prices enough to pay our employees 15 bucks a hour. Coleman brother your friend could do the same. Employers shouldn’t expect Front of the house people to work on tips. It can be done.
You must have a restaurant in an affluent area and serve good food.
Why $15? Why not $25? If that was a solution poor countries could just set the minimum wage to $50/hr and poverty would be eliminated, no?
@@julian65886 affluent area no, by no way. Good food, wine and service yes and that’s what made us successful before COVID. We were a destination place.
@@piwinter but we’re not talking about poor countries or businesses. I’m talking about businesses that are doing well. If you are doing well you should share more of your profits with those who’ve helped you reach your wealth.
@@Oldmaster51"doing well" is relativ. I'm speaking about the principle. What if your restaurant takes a downturn, another lock down..whatever, should you be able to lower the hourly wage of your employees? Noone is prevented from sharing more of their profits. We're talking about minimum wages set by the state. You can manipulate the labor markets only this much. If there's low demand and huge supply of workers the wages will be depressed. If demand for labor is high and supply is tight wages will rise. That's why things like immigration politics matters as well. Leftist always ignore national labor dynamics and talk about all workers of the world. Well, the reality is simply a sometimes brutal competition for jobs when there's an overflow of labor in a certain part of the economy. Whether is in blue collar area or tech or any other. If states mandate certain wages and quotas what happens sooner or later are so-called black markets. All communist countries in Eastern Europe had black markets in different areas: currency, services, retail etc.etc.
Joy Gray really does not understand business and she seems to have fundamental prejudices and positions that make her unwilling to engage in substantive discussion so she gets very animated and interrupts and talks over people.
Coleman… you are a gem and also a saint😎
It heartens me to see two very different, very bright, and highly personable individuals engage in a respectful exchange of opinion. In the doing, I see no evidence that either were irreparably harmed by their inclusion in, or alleged exclusion from, American society. By Woke standards, both are emblematic of the type of privilege for which "white" Americans are summarily condemned and shamed by the illiberal left. And, while I harbor a seasoned set of beliefs that have been seventy years in the making, I can relate to both of their worldviews as they touch on the evolutionary progression of my own - which gives me hope for the future. Because I am no longer young enough to know it all, I have come to recognize that humility, truthfulness, open mindedness, and mutual respect are essential elements of any worthwhile conversation. Respect to you both.
She explaining or trying explaining an oxymoron. The reality is we don’t have ANY impediments that block us from anything. Thank you Coleman for addressing it.
14:04 - yes. USA is the 1st country that immigrants from poorer countries, especially, want to come to.
I’d question that just because she lives in Saudi Arabia & Kenya, how much of those cultures did she actually experience, since International schools don’t truly experience the culture, and workers tend to live in expat areas w/ people of similar country/ language/ culture
Yeah that jumped out at me and I googled it to find the US is not just the first choice but 4x-5x more popular than the next choice (Germany). So it's pretty much a slam dunk point that most immigrants would prefer the US over other countries. No idea why she would pounce on that assertion unless she has some data that doesn't show up in a google search.
I am a big fan of you, Coleman. Your insights are so profound that I listen to you almost daily. I'm a psychologist who is grateful to have found you. One fact check for your guest, I live in L.A. and the police department makes up about 16% of the budget, and when you include benefits, pensions and everything else it is only about 26%. We could actually be spending more.
Amazing conversation-thanks Coleman! Brie on fire. Truly changing minds.
when i was an immigrant in the usa, as an itinerant musician, which is not the main stream experience, i found that class was much more important than race, and crossed racial lines. however i am highland sottish(gael not anglo scotts) and acadien with a little native, three minorities that no one cares about at all. but i can pass as i am white and speak with an accent that sounds upper class to many americans. i found that i was easily accepted but then raised suspicions if i voiced my beliefs and ethics, as they were not american at all. trevor noah put it well. "it is harder to be an outsider on the inside than to be an insider on the outside."
59:44-1:01:01 Briana absolutely nails it here. Who does it serve? Because how we choose to define something DOES matter when one group is trying to make a broader statement re: the perceived deficiencies of another and the word that's chosen creates an implicit intrinsic value upon that group.
My husband and I are both immigrants to the US (from Australia and Italy respectively) and have been actively talking about moving to Europe soon because living standards in the US are much lower than what we are used to. I think the reason why the US is such a popular country to immigrate to is less because of the opportunities offered here and more because of the US domination in media, Hollywood etc which creates a false narrative about the American Dream which doesn't bear out in reality.
I thought the exact same listening to this episode! The 🇺🇸 has THE most effective propaganda in history, but times are changing! With the advent of the internet and RUclips, social media apps, etc. giving more true freedom of speech for all walks of life, people around the globe are seeing that the American emperor has no clothes. In fact, they see he is wearing filthy, holey underwear and beating his subjects carrying his throne and much of the world pities us. Yet the brainwashed U.S. Americans are the last to see or accept the truth, even as many of their neighbors and family members quietly sneak out of the country to live out their “American dream.” What an embarrassment, really.
you're just wrong
Amazing conversation
*51:00** American black oppression is the only kind of oppression.* thats what she meant, & you see it a lot in (US) progressive-Liberal spaces. mostly in the US (tho not only. bc US exports culture.) but the conversation is interesting. focus on class & what brings us together, in the end. but where these lines are drawn is philosophically interesting. -JC
13:35 um... it IS true. The US had 50,000,000 immigrants in 2021. The next highest number was Germany with about 15,000,000. There are people who want to go to other places but she is simply objectively wrong about that. If you were to ask a random immigrant where they want to go, your best bet to be correct is to say the United States.
Wrong . Most immigrants now want to move to Either Canada or Australia because of universal healthcare and no gun violence in those countries
@@thesam27hosh do you have any evidence supporting that claim? It's totally possible that you're right, it just seems like most basic immigration data counters your narrative. And it makes sense, most people would go where there's money and America has lots of money. Not to mention how far reaching America's pop culture is.
This is an interesting point. I don't think it's helpful to simply discuss where most immigrants are interested in going. I think it helps to know the "why" behind that choice. As an English-speaking Caribbean native, I can say without a doubt that over the last 25 to 30 years, most would-be immigrants would choose the US as their primary destination... but I think that's mainly because we consume US culture and influence via television programing, and now, more recently, via social media. Before the 1980s, I think most would-be immigrants would have chosen the UK as a destination, for the same reasons of influence (my island gained independence in 1978 and before that enjoyed freer travel/access to the UK).
To sum up, one of the biggest reasons for immigrants choosing the US as a prime destination is US media and its influence. Many would say that this is by design.
That had been the case for many decades up until 2000 with the US absorbing more than twice the total of all Europe combined. Then, oddly, it switched from 2000 to 2012 with Europe taking 50% more than the US.
Now it seems to be reverting to the previous pattern again.
As an interesting aside, there are now more people of Hispanic descent living in the USA than native Britons living in the UK! No judgment implied - just quite a surprising fact!!
@@thesam27hosh US is still edging it, I believe - certainly up to 2017 - but Oz and Canada combined would then have been taking 50% more than the “official” US Total.
I came here from your Bad Faith talk with BJG. I am a huge fan of hers, and got to learn about your work from that awful experience you had on the View with Sonny who was super dismissive, and Whoopi being a bit condescending. Currently listening to your book.
This was a very frustrating conversation to listen to. Same opinion I had when she talked to Glenn. Her unwillingness to acknowledge the role of culture ( _and a host of other things_ ) combined with the fact that she's very articulate and talking with people, Glenn and Coleman, who seem to be unwilling to hold her to any hard facts ( _which is bewildering for me as Glenn is an economist and Coleman is a well read philosopher who's thoughts are pretty thorough_ ) or be a bit more aggressive in the conversation is so annoying
You can tell he gets frustrated when she describes the labor theory of value at the end. They were running short on time, but it's one key elements of being a "marxist economist" and it's just a nonsense way of thinking about how businesses or markets run.
I think they are guilty of extending to her "pretty" privilege.
Same here. No reference to basic economics, no pushback on the consistent and dismal failures of socialism. These guys are gentlemen, and I think it’s difficult to get stroppy with cute, friendly and articulate women. Chris Rufo would do a better job, I think. The chances that an idealistic leftie would sit down with him are close to zero.
You can't really change someone's mind if they believe in the labor theory of value. It's not a logically consistent theory and essentially disproves itself if you're willing to wade through Marx's intentionally obfuscating writing to sort out the logical principles.
It's like trying to disprove the Bible to someone. If you believe the Bible or Marx's LTV it's not because you understand it. It's because people who's judgment you trust also believe it. It's not incidental that a smart, educated person like her does not feel competent enough to defend such a core value that her entire worldview rests on.
I watched both conversations back-to-back and I read you loud and clear. However, and perhaps I'm splitting hairs here, I'd hesitate to consider it an "unwillingness to acknowledge." To me, it seems to be more of a "failure to understand the importance of," and I think that's a really important distinction. Brianna Joy Gray seems to me to be a good faith engager in these kinds of discussions and I think it might be more constructive to think of her as someone who "isn't quite getting it" as opposed to someone who "isn't acknowledging the facts." Just my two cents.
This conversation was tremendous! you both had a great dynamic and I hope to see you "debate" again. Briahna should work with the Free Press if she doesn't already.
This convo was bomb actually, you should have more intelligent people like BGJ or Richard Wolff on.
I'm glad I gave this a chance. I like to hear her flush out her opinions.
I've never heard a better credentialed, more succinct, well spoken individual that is completely and utterly lost in identity politics. As a host with differing views from your guests there had to be a point where you push back on blatant misinformation (I would say lies, but I don't think she believes she's lieing). You at the least need to present the counter argument and agree to disagree if you don't feel argumentative. (Edit, I actually appreciate her views on a lot of cultural American issues, I would simply like this to be more of a conversation and less of a monolgue. The points that you argued on were some of the most informative parts of the video and really show exactly what an audience hopes to hear; working through good and bad ideas in real time through conversation)
What? You haven't been paying attention: paraphrasing Orwell, some ideas are so absurd only an intellectual would believe them.
@@daveBit15 is there substance to your comment beyond snark? If you're attempting to convey a point to me either you've failed or I'm an idiot. Both possibly.
@@xxdragnxx1 Academia is full of very smart, well-spoken people completely sold to the woke politics. I'm not trying to offend you, it came to me like that because it is a very obvious fact that identity politics spilled out of academic circles.
@@daveBit15 ah, I understand now what you were trying to say. I try to avoid lumping people into baskets like this when talking about an individual though. I think Briahna has a lot of nuanced ideas around black culture and about what ideas and political spending could actually help black Americans, but it's entrenched from the start in the identity politics lens which is where her good intentions might go astray (in my opinion). That's not an unfounded claim either, she mentions it right from the start, she thinks all politics are identity politics and clearly states that opinion. Case and point was the point about trusting Glenn Loury and distrusting Tucker Carlson. I actually agree with the point, Loury appears to be an honest good faith speaker where as Carlson has been very two faced at times and seems to use political agendas to score points. But I make those judgements after listening to the speakers, not because of their political leanings or skin color and I don't think Briahna does.
@@xxdragnxx1 This was more of an interview than a discussion/debate--I'm guessing when Coleman goes on her podcast he'll have an opportunity to talk more or push back on issues over which they have disagreements. Bri can be verbose, but I think that's just her personality and enthusiasm, but she typically gives her guests plenty of time to speak.
Fantastic episode.
Can't help think that Bri tactfully skewered that boy. She sugar-coated her push-back but she won this round...she ALWAYS wins.
@@tarbosaurjones1075 Colman is clearly brilliant but BJG is a towering intellect on the level with Dr. Richard Wolff and Chris Hedges. I believe she may be at the next level, you know, Neil deGrasse Tyson, Stephen Jay Gould level.
Came here after catching Coleman on her show. These versions of Brianna shocked me. My last encounter with her was from her show with Chomsky - felt embarrassed for her then.
I REALLY appreciate how she's navigating these talks with Coleman. Looking forward to catching more of her podcast.
He rekt her on how poor immigrants work hard and rise to the top. She was implying if they came from money they will do fine. The literature doesn't agree with her
57:46 gets to the root of the issue in a way I have seldom, if ever seen before. I don't know what to make of it one way or another, but I found it fascinating.
Which makes the thing at 1:00:00 so unfortunate. Who the heck considers culture to be intrinsic? I'm asking honestly. I don't think I've met someone who thinks that culture is formed through nature rather than nurture. And to answer her question, that's important because if it's nurture then we can change that and potentially improve outcomes for people and reduce human suffering.
And Coleman nailed it (as he always does). Well done.
To her credit, at least she got to a more defensible position by talking about whether it's willful. That's actually interesting. Her first point was just nuts to me.
Did she just say she’s a small business owner because she has a podcast with 1 employee and she can say that the biggest expenditure is health care? Something about that comes off as a blatant lie. Not that health care for a small business isn’t expensive I mean the fact she things she has a small business or that she gives her 1 employee healthcare. Maybe I’m wrong but she just got goofier the longer I listened to her.
Lol. This comment has little nuisance. Your complaining that she claims she's small business. Well she pays someone and pays taxes off a product she makes. And you refute yourself by claiming health care is expensive. What's your point here.
@@danielspringsteen4626 There doesn’t need to be nuance. My point was pretty obvious I thought. I don’t think she’s being truthful. I don’t think she actually pays healthcare to the one employee. I think she’s dishonest in the same way she keeps posing these hypotheticals that don’t hold water or even make much sense in the context of the points they were discussing.
This was an incredible debate!!!
I think the culture thing is pretty evident. I don’t understand why Brie can’t understand that cultures that value education do fairly well versus others that don’t on the average/whole. Regardless of people using it as a cudgel against other cultures.
Marxist frameworks are one hell of a drug
@@mauinix4563 In part due to it's remarkable analytical and even predictive powers in spite of itself (e.g. claims to be "scientific" which no social science is.)
Coleman makes a point about groups and she likes, "but what about me?" This woman will make any argument to argue her side, no matter how tortured the logic.
Also cultures that have strong work ethics are much more successful than others.
It seemed they both discounted the role of higher ed in increasing one's chances to earn a higher income, and instead talked about the value of learning a trade. They're both mistaken, and there's a mountain of data that shows the further one goes w/ their education, the greater their chances of earning a higher wage/salary. This is very clear if you look at the data from the US Bureau of Labor Statistics. And of course both Coleman and Bri went to university (and law school in the case of the latter), and I'm guessing neither has ever worked a trade.
FANTASTIC CONVERSTION COLEMAN!
Where does racism end and community and individual responsibility begin? I come from Africa and 70 years after most colonists left or were chased out nothing has improved....so how long will it take for democracies and economies to flourish? 100? 200? 300 years? At an individual level blaming others and expecting others to change so your situation changes never works. As a recovering addict the reason I recovered is I had to become personally responsible and accountable for the changes I wanted in my life. Failure to take this very hard step and to simply accept that your life is yours alone to change is the reason so few find recovery. If my life is always somebody elses fault then why would I believe anything I do would change that? How the individual responds to their circumstances is the only thing that determines your future...not the actions or behaviours of individuals or groups around you. Imagine going to a psychiatrist and they say sorry I cant help you...you need to go and find everyone who ruined your life and get them to change first before you can move on.....that is basically what the anti racism crt types are saying.....so sadly nothing will ever change..
Yeah… sadly, the Democracies of today took Centuries to come to fruition.
Well you’re about to find out. The age of the west is ending. Lmao the west is a leech on the entire planet. When will whites learn personal responsibility? When will they stop raiding resources and starting wars everywhere? Considering the shape of the world, the west failed and can’t be wiped out of existence soon enough.
Coleman described my life when he said how his mother had such high expectations of him to get an A. And how BJG disagreed based on her life experiences. I can tell you that's the reason why Asians do so well and get ahead. There are an overwhelming amount of Asian "Tiger Moms" out there. My parents were poor immigrants. But ever since I can remember, they preached that family is #1, education is #2. If you want to know what the Asian secret sauce is, look no further. I have a child who is truly gifted academically. But I also have one who had a learning disability. Yet all 3 of my kids did exceptionally well financially. All bought homes in nice neighborhoods, received very marketable degrees, and make a lot more than the average American.
Good discussion. I am understanding Briahna's perspective to be that group failure is explained by society while success is explained by individual and societal advantages.
I would ask what role individual poor decision-making has on failure in her mind?
For example, if I meet someone on the street that's 35 healthy and homeless my first question is what have you done to get yourself here? It seems her first question is how has society left you here?
I fear that leaves the best tool for improving human lives completely out of consideration. Accountability is a first principle factor for progress in my mind, most everything starts there. Individual accountability is a building block that thriving societies rely on.
The problem is you can't control what decisions people make. She was talking about incentivising good decisions. For example, she wants higher wages for people who make a good decision and get a job. For those who decide to get an education, then she supports free college or trade school education. I think everyone recognises that if someone makes bad decisions, most of the time, they will have bad outcomes. When that homeless person who made all these bad decisions decides to make a good decision to not be homeless and to get a job, then he should be rewarded with a job and a place to stay. There was recently a news story that 30% of employees of Croger's grocery store were homeless. There's very little incentive to get a job if your still going to be homeless.
@@jemt1631 it isn't clear that her point was incentives. But, the examples you gave are not as cut and dry as you depict. Let's say someone was homeless and now wants to make a good decision of getting their life back on track.
Thats awesome, and I imagine a better world where there are case managers to help give people guidance and support to get on their feet. I will accept a tax increase for that, cause it helps everyone.
But, there are and should be consequences for poor choices as a guiding principle. I'm not talking about someone who's job moved to no fault of their own. I'm talking about people who make poor choices and remain homeless for years. Outside of severe and persistent mental illness there needs to be an evaluation of what the person has done with their time each day.
No you don't just start back in the middle when you've been out of the workforce. You start from the beginning, especially if you never learned more than minimum wage labor skills.
I would be curious to see the details of this study you're referencing. My friend was very excited about their first job at Kroger growing up because they were paid more than fast food jobs. They knew that before the first day, because everyone knows what they will be paid before their first day on the job. I need to see the disconnect from knowing what I will get paid and not seeing where I can afford to live ahead of time. That's a fundamental accountability question that needs answering. I'm presuming this study was in California perhaps?
The only thing I disagree on is giving government bureaucrats the power to judge a person's decisions to determine if they are deserving. I think that's too much power and a dangerous pitfall. I'm a historian and everytime in the past the government has had the power to make moral judgements it hasn't gone well. Wasn't that long ago being gay was considered immoral and it still is to some people. In regards to taxes, I have no idea how much if at all taxes would go up considering people getting jobs increases tax revenue. Also, given all the wasteful idiotic government spending.
I was trying to remember a story from months ago about Kroger, apparently it was 14% of the employees. I don't think an individuals actions are more important than the material reality. I think they are often equal in importance. People's choices are limited by certain factors like their wealth, location, family obligations, access to transportation, education, etc. I have no idea why they chose to work at Kroger. Though, I don't think it's crazy to think if your employed that you should make enough not to be homeless. Maybe, I just value work too highly.
@@jemt1631 I'm with you on not giving government too much power.
I'm more referring to creating standards for productivity in different industries. Making it public and clear what milestones people need to be eligible for promotion in certain jobs. Even if that job isn't available at a specific company, someone with specified milestones would be attractive to other companies. I'm imagining a free agency system similar to the NFL where companies everywhere can see what you've accomplished and compete for your talents, education, and accomplishments you've acquired over your career. Some kind of model like that along with case management to help people access a clear career path in that system.
Just something I'm imagining.
I believe that individual choices affect material reality. Infact most current millionaires, roughly 80%, are first-time millionaires. That means their material reality did not start with wealth. I don't think Briahna understands finance, business development, or capital raising. She talks about money like it's black magic or a necessary evil.
I didn't understand it either until my brother started working as an intern at an investment bank. We had long discussions about how money actually works vs what we learned growing up. We both grew up middle class, father making less than 50k. We lived in the hood with our grandmother and roaches on the walls that scatter when the lights came on. But, he's VP of a venture capital company, and I'm a business owner. I've seen how accountability and personal choices wildly change material reality.
I think what's missing is clarity for most people about what their options are and what they need to do next. Give clarity and support, then hold people accountable to what they are and aren't doing. You don't actually need money to make money. That's a lesson we both personally learned, and it's very freeing to realize what's in your head is what matters and what people pay for.
It's not a bad idea. I just think the more you move towards a meritocractic system, then the more you have to worry who decides whats meritorious or not. There's people like Einstein who hated order and nearly failed out of school. I don't know how to account for those types of people.
Yes, people's thoughts and actions shape material reality. I also believe material reality shapes people's thoughts and actions. Though, it's not a 1:1 relationship. For example, before modern prosthetics an amputee at best had a peg leg and couldn't run. Then, someone's ideas changed the material world by creating prosthetics and the changed material reality for the amputee meant they could now choose to go for a run. That's a simplistic explanation but good enough.
To be fair, Briahna didn't talk about money except for 5 mins or so at the end. She was a Corporate lawyer for years, so she at least knows about money and finance from a legal perspective. She also technically runs a small business. I couldn't really say more than that about what she knows. She did say she'd help get Professor Richard Wolff on the show to talk about it. He is an Economist and has a PhD in Economics from Yale.
She’s obviously more equipped in delivering her points waaayyy better than Cole! So if your subscribed to his channel and are guy…. Ask yourself does my fraternity to Cole keep me from engaging or listening to more robust arguments that’ll challenge my views. And when your done pontificating on the point. Go subscribe to her FREAKING Channel! Forget where you lean politically! 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Except she lacks basic understanding of economics.
@@twells138 I don’t think she said she was an Econ major!? But she seems to understand basic Econ 101. Yes she definitely could’ve articulated that portion a little better but she did gave you a source to so you can go there if you want your brain stimulated economically.
@@kdot9929 I didn't say she she was an econ major, just that she does not seem to understand some econ basics. Like what capital is. I am referring, specifically, to her parroting the ideas of profit is wage theft and labor theory of value. There is a reason the labor theory of value dropped out of favor as an economic theory in the 19th century. And I have looked at her source, Richard Wolf. From what she stated in the dialog, it appears she gets most of her ideas from Wolf. He is an idealist who does not have many reeal-life example to point to to provie his case. For example:
If employee-run companies were better, performed better, they would be more prevalent. But they are not. Costco is not employee-owned. There is an ESOP, and employee own a pieces, but not a controlling piece. It is run by a board elected mostly by mutual funds.
These are just a few of the reasons she does not understand basic econ.
Apologies ahead of time for lots of comments. I expect I will have opinions.
I have to say on Briahna's point on black women getting degrees at a very high rate and it not making much of a difference in them making money, there are two reasons:
1. The overall degree inflation that pushes people into college no matter what and causes the masters to be the new bachelors.
2. The programs they are getting masters in, if there aren't better higher paying jobs in a field, you are in or desiring to be in, based on a masters in a certain subject then don't get the degree....
I never understood progressives who largely are skeptical of the federal government (which I agree with) but in the very same breath want to give them even more power, that would just push us closer to more cronyism or straight up totalitarianism
I think their main goal is to take over the government and control everyone. They are not sceptical of government; they are skeptical of the current system ( capitalism)
They don't want to give governments more power, they want to change what governments prioritize: e.g., a higher minimum wage, laws that give workers more power in the workplace (particularly through collective bargaining or partial ownership), tuition-free universities and trade schools, M4A, etc. as opposed to exorbitant military spending, massive corporate welfare giveaways, subsidies for hugely profitable corporations, etc.
The woke crowd endlessly complains that the system is irreparably racist, yet proposes a set of political solutions that, if affected by lawmakers, will markedly increase the size and role of government. More regulations would require an expansion of regulatory agencies. Medicare for all would require a larger federal bureaucracy. Cancellation of student debt and reparations would require an increase in deficit spending which, in the long run, would lead to the need for fiscal austerity and corresponding cuts in social welfare programs. Universal income would result in higher rates of taxation, inflation and deficit spending. An increase in Federally subsidized affordable housing would increase deficit spending and/or require higher tax rates absent for-profit corporate partners. Reductions in military spending would reduce American influence abroad and adversely its ability to optimize its economic standing in foreign markets - resulting in a marked price increase in consumer goods and a hike in unemployment. Increased tax rates for US based transnational corporations would result in their flight to greener pastures and a corresponding loss of jobs. (To name just a few)
@@truthstarved The issue really isn't big government vs small government, the issue is bad (corrupt, undemocratic, pro-corporatist, pro-war) government vs good government (government that provides education, a basic social safety net, greater influence for workers and the majority over the oligarchic minority, a check on corporate power/monopolies, etc.).
Further, I don't think there's any defending America's massively bloated military budget, which far exceeds that any other nation, fills the coffers of war profiteers/contractors, and increases the likelihood (read: need) for more illegal and destructive interventionist wars. Sorry, not buying your argument that we need a $800 billion per year military budget, and that's not including additional war spending, or spending for veterans' health care, housing, etc. which are of course military expenditures, but aren't counted in the annual military spending budget.
Emile: Do you believe that any level of US military spending serves a legitimate function? Or, that US interventionism can be justified in any circumstance?
1st generation Cuban American. My parents were not "elites" and very few in the community I grew up in had a real education or had assets in Cuba. For most part people did well. I realize this is anecdotal but I'm just not with that position. My mother was born and raised as a servant on a farm, barely literate and did not finish middle school. My father did not finish high school. Both came in there mid 30s with nothing, zero English and to Illinois (not Chicago). Almost every disadvantage...but the right attitude and my father refused to take US government assistance.
One of the best guests you've had!
As a black young man in America I originally bought into the ideological belief in identity politics and realized that that it took it away from the real problem of classism capitalism and oppression in the form of systematic oppression. I realized yes their is racism both one to one and systemic but so what who cares when we have capitalism and oligarchs destroying the world
That's a weird and very off position. You acknowledge that systemic racism exists as it has a devastating impact on the lives of Americans who descend from slavery. Yet, you think it's irrelevant because of capitalism is a bigger issue? So Black Americans being wiped out into poverty (forecasted that majority will be by 2050) isn't important simply because whites have a class issue? Studies show that the facts that Black Americans are a permanent bottom caste has zero correlation with class. Therefore, if you solve the "class issue", Black Americans will still remain as a bottom caste, continue to have the lowest life expectancy, least wealth, shut out of opportunities, experience the most false imprisonments and have the most unfair sentences, etc. As a Black young man in America, I will never cave into the idea that after suffering 350 years of state sanctioned violence, the lives of the people who share my lineage are expendable as long as every other group of people can prosper through class correction.
@@tonystone10K that’s not what I am saying let me explain it this way systemic oppression is reply embedded into the frameworks of the is country and every other western society as well as non western society systemic racism is much harder to get rid of and quite impossible so why make it it the priority it can be second to the a cause that’s much bigger
@@thegomillionairemindset6719 Because the data shows that the institutions that are saturated in racism has direct and inadvertent impacts on the health and lives of our people. To me, that is the biggest issue. If any other group were in a similar position, they'd definitely prioritize sustaining their existence. We're slowly dying off, and it's being largely ignored. Yet, were suppose to care more about sustaining everyone else?
Commies gonna commie ☭ 😬
Enjoy the debate. But, oh boy, Briahna takes over the conversation. 90% B 10% C
How do people become such obnoxious anti-Americans while benefitting so much from living in the U.S.?
Same here in the UK.
They become obnoxious and anti-american BECAUSE they live in the US. Our system is made to cater the incapable and the unwilling.
@@tilleryinnovations592 it’s 2022. Get over the racism propaganda already. The only thing in the way to black americas success is black America
The most important question- did you ask her out?
I'm always simultaneously intrigued and annoyed by Briahna. I'm black and a business owner. I have many black friends who are business owners. She's black and a business owner. There isn't this grand conspiracy of privilege that makes some people owners and managers and others workers.
She also doesn't think that
Where exactly did she say anything about a conspiracy? Genuine question
@@TCt83067695 My word, not hers. It's always implied IMO.
@@armorfoursleep If you say so.
@@xDonJuanx is that good faith though? You inferring something she never said.
Would it not be better to just criticize her on the things she actually said?
Please follow her advice and get Richard Wolf on. I think what he says is ludicrous, but if there's ever a podcast to give him the most charitable interpretation, it's this one.
Soho forum had a good debate a few years ago. I think it's on the Reason channel
Really great conversation. Wish you guys got into the topic of economics more. Would love to talk to both of you about that one.
Thank you for sharing this with us. I enjoyed watching this. Take care.👋🏾👨🏾⚕️
Employee ownership still requires capital investment, and the initial overhead of capital investment, and in the United States is allowed. It is not popular for many reasons. And the presumption that capital is ill-gotten gains is not a fundamental axiom of Marx, that is a morally loaded perspective by many who have read him that look past him stating that the exploitation is not a moral argument. Though in some of his writings he clearly wanted people to see the world that way. People pick and choose what parts of Marx to ignore or interpret to suit their idealized wish of him
Except she wants employee ownership without them having to put up capital. For her, if you work somewhere you should automatically be a part owner
this was really gr8. look fwd to the bad faith. -JC
labor theory of value is just the worst, like she completely left out the fact that in her example the owner of the pile of wood could also just build the tables, like she could do her own editing.
I especially love that she's going further back like "where did they even get the capital in the first place?" like if you go back enough you'll find the evil.
Anyone who goes back and still supports capitalism is stupid
Also, no guarantee that you sell the table at your desired price. One guy can have a similar business and lose money after material and labor expenses because he isn't good at marketing his product. Does that worker do less labor just because he works for a company where the profit margins are thinner?
"I can make my own table! How hard could it be?"
That Marxist framework is the height of reductionism, it's sounds so clear when you talk about it until you come to the real world. wood and tables argument has no place for whether someone is actually good at making tables or not, if you just started out you're more likely to charge a smaller fee than an expert, wood might break now you need additional wood, change of mind maybe you now want to attend to sick family member, can't afford so you negotiate for a different size of table, discount for making 5 tables. The fundamental flaw in a Marxist argument is the simple scenarios, life is a mess of complex dynamics that change all the time that's why free people decided long ago that your word is what you should be judged upon, "gentleman's agreement" this doesn't mean you won't be exploited it means whatever free ADULT people agree to do is their business failure to which a conflict resolution process can start where everyone is held accountable for their decisions. Top down Marxists dreams of controlling the economy usually ends in one destination, controlling people. She must not be big fan of decentralized frameworks because thats what free markets are localized stresses that strengthen the whole.
@@Dorkmaster941 always painful to hear someone triviliaze the complexity of real life.
kudos to Coleman. I can see the earnestness in your beliefs. But I would say to you, there's no shame in admitting or embracing when someone is changing your mind. Your viewpoint, and your journey in learning new ways to conceptualize your experiences is FAR more valuable to your viewers than your ability to elucidate what you've learned up to this point. thank you for your unique and honest takes.
Love this 2 people equally 🤣 I listen to both of them individually. Yes I can have doubt that either of their positions are absolute. Thank you! Maybe they need to define culture rigorously, come to an agreement on the definition and restart the conversation 🤣
Good point, maybe when Coleman goes on Bri's podcast they can hone their discussion of "culture." To my thinking, it seems they and many others use the term "culture" when in fact what they're referring to is "social" or "sociological"--e.g., what factors determine whether a person goes to college or goes to prison would seem to fall under the rubric of sociology. Perhaps they're using "culture" in a very broad sense, which may account for why that segment of the podcast came across as somewhat confused/confusing.
Wage would most likely turn into another form of welfare for the rich. I like the idea of cutting the costs of small businesses to employ by the government paying for healthcare. She is right that insures companies are only beholden their share holders and are incentives to deny care.
I consider Briahna an open racist. She frequently says racist things and then claims its ok for her to say them.
The hypocrisy is nauseating.
What did she say?
You are going to have to explain that one as I am not seeing it.
Broh you’re just doing what the left does when they don’t like something. Call it racist.
@@bettinabarr9107 Anyone falsely claiming that Jews were rich when they came to America, and that they didn’t have to struggle when they came to America because they were already wealthy is a racist. Jews were barred from everything from golf courses to universities. George Washington actually had to write a proclamation granting Jews equal rights. These whole argument is an attempt at saying Jews aren’t really oppressed and are in fact oppressors, which is a common conspiracy theory of the Nation of Islam, whom Briahna’s father was a member of. You can see where her racism comes from. Jews literally come from huts in the woods in Eastern Europe.
In an environment where the competition is saving a penny by offshoring, any company that decided to be all smug and NOT save a similar penny, probably by also offshoring, is failing in their duty to their shareholders who have invested their cash, and is almost guaranteeing that the company will lose against the competition. One company can't fix this alone. Neither can all-but-one. It's up to the consumers to vote with their purchases, and it's up to voters to vote at the polls to change the rules to be in line with what's best for the citizens.
The is a general rules problem, globalization and for that matter automation and i would even throw mergers into this as well need to be highly regulated to protect the American workers, and make sure companies keep in mind all stakeholders becuase when it does not you an i the tax payers are the ones who subsidize corporate profits.
She is an eloquent speaker, but she misses one very important part of the equation…the agency of those she advocates for. Giving everyone free college would be great if everyone were literate, motivated, and otherwise capable. But that is far from the case. She seems to presuppose that everyone, regardless of upbringing (part of culture), would be perfectly successful if only college were free. I don’t imagine she visits the inner city very much. Or ever.
Dude and how People become "literate"? By imposing high monetary obstacles? I live in Germany Education is free. I saw many of smart people who never could have study in a US environment. On Top. Public Universities are much tougher here than Private Universities. Privates Universities who take almost everyone and have to pleasure their Costumers with easy routes. Many rich Kids came to me to ask how to pass the Application Test.I was the first in my working class family receiving a Masters Degree and working in a IT Company. And of course master degrees are not everything, this is why vocational training should also be free. So that Practical and Theoretical Skill become "part of culture".
@@sunrae3971 Only 28% of young Germans have a degree. In the US it's 46%.
I doubt the argument is that everyone would be successful, but that the financial barrier is the only thing keeping some people from that success. One of my high school friends was the smartest guy I know but wasn’t able to go to college because of the cost.
she did a wonderful job. it's been a very long time since of heard a compelling grounded Marxist(ish) critique of our system.
That said, culture and personal responsibility have to be spoken of honestly when considering individual outcomes.
I spent a year abroad after college, teaching kids English in Asia, and the vast majority of them never even wanted to visit America because they were scared that they'd be a victim of gun violence.
That's interesting. I did the same thing but for 8 years in Korea, where everybody wanted to go to the US.
They should be afraid to come to the US, as it's a country of extremes, and psychologically unhealthy: see data on suicides, homicides, opioid overdoses, anxiety/depression, violence (including gun violence), etc. A lot of damaged people in the US.
@@emileconstance5851 There are a lot of damaged people everywhere. The US is much more open about these issues than most places and if you compare with East Asia, the US is vastly better in terms of life style, options, cultural values etc...Having spent a good many years in that cultural, I can say it is extremely unhealthy from so many perspectives.
@@thomassenbart Have you spent much time in the US--because Americans are out of their freaking minds! Lol!
@@emileconstance5851 I have, since I am American and I can speak in depth on the subject especially in comparison with the rest of the world.
What do you think is most crazy about Americans? Also, where have you been in the US and where are you from?
No doubt the US has issues but so too all other nations.
People often forget that the US is basically a continent, with 335,000,000 people, very diverse, in every way and yet amazingly successful.
To get a similar view, you would need to use the EU as a similar political unit from Romania and Portugal to Germany and the Baltic States.
You mentioned suicide rates in the US. Did you know S. Korea is the fourth highest worldwide with 28.6 per 100,000 and in Japan Suicide is the leading cause of death in men between the ages of 20-44 and women between the ages of 15-34, with an overall rate of 15.3 per 100,000.
In 2019, Sweden had 14.7 suicides per 100,000 people.
Russia (25.1 per 100k people)
and the US rate is 16.1 per 100,000 with 22 other countries with higher rates.
A follow up point about people’s rights to talk about anything: doesn’t anyone have the right to put forward views about anything? If we look at all the different identities out there (disability, colour, sex/gender, age, religion, nationality) it would be extremely limiting to have to be restricted just to one’s ‘lived experience’. We need both an insider and outsider view of all issues.