At 900+ bucks a piece these are hardly disruptive. It's like the next speaker for 10k. Those are not gonna sweep the market. At 300 we would be talking, but few people have the budget for those headphones. Plus then a good DACAmp would be another 500. For 2k you can get a very nice Stereo if you know what to buy and many people would spend in that direction first if budget and room permits.
1st. Your math is not very good, hardly is 900 + 500 = 2000... 2nd why you talk about a stereo system, that is something else. So by that I judge, that you are new into hobby and cant justify price tag of these and wont understand the disruptiveness of these. :D
@tibormichalcik9381 ive been "in the hobby" for long enuff to know This isn't actually a hobby - buying hot ticket items others say is the next best. What is a Hobby, is learning acoustic sci/eng, understanding what "good" audio is, how it can be achieved and making it happen. Your reply to the OP of this thread keeps me rooting for ChiFi 😂
At these prices I don’t think the big headphone companies are scared. If they were coming in with a better product at a more affordable price, with short order times, maybe. But these are all $800+ and sold out. Sennheiser has products at varying prices that are available now.
If i'd have a company making headphones like that i'd sell elements that are non printable together with 3D files, so those that can print and assemble them themselves wouldn't sit in my never ending waiting list.
You answered your own question by using the term "boutique." Only a limited percentage of the population would buy these given their very high prices. Why would the big companies be worried? EG .As of now the HD600 which is revered by so many is $300.00 on Amazon. A price point most can afford which spells more sales /profits for Sennheiser.
I just wished more of them had presence outside of America. UK gets shafted hard since none of their products get sold overseas, so import charges galore.
True. Especially for warranty issues. However headphones are "only" charged with VAT, they do not incur additional import duties. I recently got my Tungstens for under £1500 inc shipping. Not bad seeing as the US has to pay tax on the $1500 price. I'm sure if there was an official site they would cost more but at least it's easier on the mind if anything goes wrong. A better dollar conversion would help. Sadly the days of $2=£1 are long gone.
Even in Australia, with it's higher shipping costs & import fees for Western made goods, due to our lazy government and our remote location from everyone else, I'm learning it's worth it now to pay that little bit extra vs circle-jerking Chi-Fi every year, hoping "this next one won't have the QC issues" of the last. Currently saving for a pair of ZMF headphones and I won't be touching Chi-Fi again.
Reminds me of what happened when HiFiMAN and Audeze broke out onto the scene in 2008. There was a lot of complacency then, too, and planar-magnetic drivers weren't being taken seriously by the Sennheisers of the world...until they suddenly found their lunch had been eaten.
I've had the Dahlia for a couple weeks now and I love it. Build quality is great, really enjoyable tuning and surprisingly good on stuff like soundstage and imaging.
I'll be watching this space personally as it seems interesting. The thing for me though is that these are still quite expensive products overall so I'd argue that they're quite niche and not the sort of thing that post people will go for. You're taking a bit of a risk when you invest in companies like these when compared to the bigger brands where you have more kickback of something goes wrong. Equally, if there aren't people out there buying these, we're not going to see progress and bigger companies may not feel the need to compete. I think the hype with this sort of thing will come when somebody is able to release a headphone which is impressive at a much lower price point - it's what most people will be buying at the end of the day. I think there's a reason chifi and IEMs have taken off really as the progress in that space is incredible, it's great for people entering at that point but also impressive for those of us who have been around for a while and can see how far we've come at the lower price points. Additionally, I think the reason headphones like the HD600 series, Beyerdynamics or the M50 were so hyped is that while they aren't exactly cheap, they're still accessible to many people. It's hard to have the same level of interest around something like the Mod House Tungsten with it being well into the four figure price point.
Something that always stays in the back of my mind with DIY and small boutique products…… Is what I get going to be the same as what you get? How is QC being handled?
could it really be worse than sennheisers IE series that you spend? moondrop? id choose a guy in his garage anyday. SENNHEISER cant fix their ie600 scandal, ill go with the guy in the garage.
The QC is actually better. ZMF listens to & measures every unit & provides a lifetime driver warranty. HFA also measures every driver, provides you w a link to the graph for your specific unit, gives super detailed videos on how to care for your set & is very responsive & helpful. I feel more confident spending money w them than the big manufactures
@@NiclasSalcin I don’t own the IE 600 and I haven’t seen any widespread reports of problems. I’m not sure what you’re talking about after doing a search. Are there some failures? Sure, but not in the numbers you seem to be implicating. The IE 600 is one of the biggest products for knockoffs as well.
@@beefsupreme510 I own some ZMF’s and love them but I wouldn’t have bought them in their early days either! They are now an established, proven company who have long left the DIY moniker behind them. I also listened to them long before I ever bought. I think that I will continue this pattern in the future.
When it's boutique you have to trust the craftsman. If someone goes wrong you'll probably be talking to the person who made it and they'll likely get you sorted post haste.
Don’t mess with D.I.Y’er’s in audio. Something I learned very well this year. These are the guys that shake up the market and apply new standards towards price to performance values. ☺️
@enjoyer_of_tinkering4706 because it's where the driver PCB is located. Without that cover you would be seeing a green PCB with cables soldered to it.
@@HomeroGraco I was talking about the curved ribs. One is slightly thicker than the other 24 of them. You are right about the very wide inner rib. I checked the video "HFA Dahlia Build Series - Earcup Assembly" on HIFI FOR ALLs channel. The wire to the driver is hidden by the rib I was talking about, visible at 22:00. It bugs me less when I know the purpose behind it.
These are all around 1.3-1.7k in my currency which is an absolutely insane ask when excellent headphones from reputable brands can be acquired for half of that. Until that's solved, I don't see them going anywhere.
Sorry, but why should i pay 1000-2000€ for a unkwon Headphone Brand, when i can get Audeze, Audio-Technica, HifiMan or beyerdynamic, who have Decades of experience, for the same Price? And before you ask, i have 17 Headphones from 170-1200€ and an SPL Headphone DAC+Amp for 2000€. No ChiFi.
To be fair beyerdynamic doesn't have a single good product these days aside from the 900X. Audio technica only has one (r70x). What these small companies are doing is making products that are not just slightly better, but significantly (and measurably) better than the big audio brands. Big brands have experience but clearly they're not using it.
I realized this after listening to the Borealis and Sash Tres. I still buy bigger brands like Focal or Stax, but it's starting to look a lot like the majority of my bang for buck HPs will be from smaller companies.
When you say that most people will be buying these brands and that big brands will mostly not be around. You're strictly addressing audiophiles, right?
If you look at Sennheiser they have the HD-600 that they've been making since 1997(?) but they can't improve on it. They've tried, but I think being a shareholder driven company, they've just tried to make it cheaper and charge more.
Well, the E3 is my first DCA headphone, and it is really, really surprising, I really enjoy it and can't believe a closed back sounds that good. I have been a long time Audeze and Sennheiser owner, and I still do prefer my LCD-5 (although with a Moon Audio Black Dragon cable) over anything else I've had at home. Both of those companies do seem to shirt direction, at least on occasion. I cannot compare those against the three brand new small company designs you mention here. I absolutely agree that competition is always necessary and good to keep the big guys on their toes and push them to introduce products that target new preferences. I am really glad you have such positive thoughts about these new options that we have as headphone listeners.
You should check out the ploopy headphones, 3D printed planar magnetics. You can DIY them. I'm curious to the models you can make at home. That Dahlia looks great, I'd love to build those myself too.
Often times, small companies have the benefit of having the decision-makers closer to the community. Additionally, smaller companies are usually more agile and are able to act more quickly when compared to large companies. I would also guess that small companies are more likely to be satisfied with smaller profit margins than larger companies. I think the high industry will continue to be a space where small companies can make real impacts, particularly because of technologies like 3D printing which greatly reduce some of the production challenges.
There's a pretty important omission here: big companies buy small(er) companies. So the only thing big companies should be scared about, is probably other big companies.
So like Crinacle and Zeos made collabs with companies we all look forward to you collabing with the three companies you’re reporting on and i do want to add that these companies post-pandora box opening i wonder if theyll take a Bose approach to acoustic channeling of the bass air push to tune the sub bass possibly or midrange on the ear cans themselves? I just see open back with grills to protect yes understandbly so but closed back i wonder if you or anyone that have access to 3d printer will take a car subwoofer bandapass box approach to already bulky over the ears headphones?
I cannot afford such a luxury right now, and I feel like that should be a primary point to be made. These ARE luxury products, sometimes things seem so casual for others. I must settle on my Sundaras, at the time $250.
@ It’s more a stigma than anything with both materials, but there’s no denying that injection molding is preferred for industrial runs. Injection molding tends to produce stiffer and more durable parts. The only reason boutique builders don’t use it is that the barrier to entry is high and it doesn’t make sense for small runs (less than 1000 units). Also, historically, 3D printing is for prototyping and injection molding is for mass production. Even Apple does a lot of prototypes with 3D printing. Finally, if the product is good and doesn’t break during normal use, it shouldn’t be an issue at all, but the stigma remains.
This is going on across niche markets in general. Lean and mean. With all the CAD drawing programs, 3D printing, and some people with great ideas, that have the drive and desire to make them happen. They won't be eating the lunch of the big companies, but they will be affecting the design directions that those companies take. If they were smart, they could capitalize on this synergy by collaborating with these Indies on a project that already is doing well, and put the weight of big manufacture behind it. That could end up being a win for everybody.
You can sell high end products but they mass market generates way more money. The problem is ,a small company comes up with a good product,gets huge and eventually does not adapt or innovate new products.
Some of the older companies only dabble in highend headphones. Sony T+A Technics Quad Denon Even Sonos There is still only a handfull of big companies, manufacturing headphones as their main product.
The difference is I will never get to hear any of these small establishment companies' headphones since they will never appear in canjam or any other audio shows. I am not going to blind buy them.
3D printing homes up the ability to pretty easily build complex designs that aren't highly structural (needing high structural performance), and the powder style printing can effectively build any shape without much of a restriction, and it's strong nylon without any major weaknesses, and the build tolerances are pretty tight. Now they're also getting a bright white powder and can start doing good colors. Plus if you do want metals, even 3D printed metals, you can buy it all on demand and at small numbers. There's such tiny barrier to entry for anything that isn't structural. I bring up structural only because that's the point where it gets tough to design anything good without being an engineer or hiring an engineer with the academic knowledge at least up to mechanics of materials. Without that level of knowledge, you don't really understand the physics well enough to design structural elements efficiently or often competently. But short of that, most hobbyists can play with CAD and 3D print stuff at home with almost zero barrier to entry. Even cost isn't much of a barrier, depending on how you go about your business and production model. You never have to make hundreds or thousands of units. You can literally build 1, or 5, or some other very, very small number, and the economics are pretty ok-ish even at that scale. If you're getting into fancier stuff, you can eve find small craftsman that are willing to build you stuff. Need a leather pouch to hold your product or cabling? Cool. There's probably some dude in Wyoming that just does it for fun in retirement. And because this market often isn't high volume, that kind of stuff kind of really, really works. A fun fact, even on big industrial machinery, it is often the case that production is still small number and still operates in ways a hobbyist would too. And there's industries that cater to them, to this model, where some dude who has literally a family run job shop in a town of 10,000, or less, with a 6 axis milling machine, lathe, robotic welder, and he's just kind of in podunk nowhere. Better yet, pricing and lead times are often good, and they will go out of their way to make you happy.
Do we have the same trend in IEMs? I've been looking for a better IEM because my Sennheiser IE600s have been absolute garbage (RMA'd 4 times in the year I've owned them for random driver failures)
Dunno if this is out there yet but I really miss ta simple list of headphones rated against each other in n absolyte fashion some folks used to do. Then I could just go look what's affordable and buy that next or try that next. Watching individual headphone reviews is for when you've already zeroed in on something.
Honestly, I look at companies like Koss. They really rested on the laurels for a long time, but I think their younger generation in the business has really injected new life into that brand. Over the last decade, they have gone from the "porta pro" brand to having a suite of new headphones that are focused on trying new ideas and fitting better within their side of the market.
i think this is a relevant conversation to have but the big companies have little to fear when their up and coming competition is in the 800+ dollar range and much of the world is down in the 50-250 range. for hifi specifically sure there is an argument that they are great deals but the rest of the price category they are not.
They really aren't the same markets, the economics and consumer priorities are just completely different. I'm not sure why there are so many comments pointing out the same thing, of course none of us 2 person operations are capable, or really even desire to compete with high volume commodity manufacturers. And vice versa, the low volume audiophile markets tend to necessitate very different approaches and teams, usually resulting in even large manufacturers buying or spinning up divisions dedicated to the luxury goods space with the capability to operate at an incredibly low production scale vs the commodity products (eg. Sony consumer vs Sony audiophile + Sony buying Audeze, or Sennheiser spinning off its consumer brand)
I wish there was atleast one of those names written out below, cause I tried to find the "Erebus Acoustics" (left with hexagonal pattern), but I am sure I misheard or whatever...
HFA Dahlia is so nice sounding. I remember hearing the earlier prototype before the 3D printed chassis and even back then it was impressive what they accomplished tuning wise. Other indie makers to note of: ETA - so far have improved on a lot of drawbacks of on-ear headphone designs. They are making their own dynamic driver as well and the prototype I heard seem really promising. SJY - planar headphone maker, who just partnered with Apos for the Horizon Closed release
Wanted to add on another recommendation for ETA, been dailying a pair of their Mini-Cs for a while now, and really enjoy them. Great price/performance!
For me it's mainly the Hemp for rock music, I tried one from the PS line (500 I think) and it sounded OK as well. I haven't tested the higher end models.
Isn't it normal? Thats why big companies like SONY buy small companies like AUDEZE. And why companies like Sennheiser sell parts of their company, to be more competitive
Any opinions on hifi man’s edition xs refurbished/open box? I want to get my first pair of legit headphones that are open back but have a pretty tight budget. And if they are a good buy, any idea if the newest steel series dac amp is a solid enough device to drive them?
Traditional companies usually get disrupted and disappeared. That's the fact of life. When people are hungry, they work harder and strive. When people are successful, they get complacent and lazy. That's the fact of life. FiiO are delivering well received and cost effective products.
To me, it's a lot like when hipsters say "I listened to them before they were cool" etc. There's value and pride of ownership with some of the "if you know you know" stuff. Or just the idea of small bespoke, craft stuff. I absolutely love it. Just hope there's stuff in my tax bracket.
Personally, I think the worst thing that has happened to the prosumer headphone market in the past few years is Sonova aquiring Sennheiser. I had to replace a couple pair of 20+ year old headphones this past year (HD280 & HD660) the modern versions are just not the same. They feel more like toys than the originals. The sound better than the worn out pairs, but Im not sure they sound the same as the did. Then again maybe my ears are getting worn out too. 😊
Yeah it’s great this is happening. Tendency to give price as high as possible or as some people are willing to pay is out of comment. Headphones even with an amp for 60k is also nonsense. Crossing my fingers for these business
Hey am i the process of building such headphones here in egypt after trying to get the small headphones kinda lost on the provider of some componets if you can guide me or lets us get in touch would be great
Honestly these days I think that's leading to worse decisions. Using focus groups and ignoring the body of science has resulted in very poor frequency response a good number of times.
I think the established players will continue to exist but they will definitely need to take a hard look at their prices. If they don't then they'll be gone. Ultimately better audio quality at cheaper prices benefits all of us, the consumers.
DMS is starting to look like a Firefighter!
He's got that Viltrumite stache.
More like Freddie mercury
@@joacwoot I was going to say a 70's adult film actor.
When's the calendar coming out?
Or cowboy
the name HFA.. Hifi for all... $900 headphones.. more like Hifi for Some... lol
At 900+ bucks a piece these are hardly disruptive. It's like the next speaker for 10k. Those are not gonna sweep the market. At 300 we would be talking, but few people have the budget for those headphones. Plus then a good DACAmp would be another 500. For 2k you can get a very nice Stereo if you know what to buy and many people would spend in that direction first if budget and room permits.
True, but when you have good tech on the high-end, it will eventually trickle down to the budget offerings as well... Hopefully
1st. Your math is not very good, hardly is 900 + 500 = 2000... 2nd why you talk about a stereo system, that is something else.
So by that I judge, that you are new into hobby and cant justify price tag of these and wont understand the disruptiveness of these. :D
@tibormichalcik9381 ive been "in the hobby" for long enuff to know This isn't actually a hobby - buying hot ticket items others say is the next best. What is a Hobby, is learning acoustic sci/eng, understanding what "good" audio is, how it can be achieved and making it happen.
Your reply to the OP of this thread keeps me rooting for ChiFi 😂
I'm concerned about the caterpillar on your lip. Hope you're okay.
it whispers to me
I guess he's not ok.
@@DMS3TV 😆😆😆👍
@@DMS3TV What stories does it tell? Stories about foamy beers no doubt!
I like it. Kinda Freddie Mercury-esque (for me that's a good thing).
At these prices I don’t think the big headphone companies are scared. If they were coming in with a better product at a more affordable price, with short order times, maybe. But these are all $800+ and sold out. Sennheiser has products at varying prices that are available now.
Boutique brands. Simple economics.
@@Feliciano12vStill though. Even at $400 dollars, we are talking the vast minority of headphones sold
Most of these big headphone companies are producing worse products for 2X the price.
@@DMS3TV Susvara to ds tungsten 3x price, worse frequency response, a bit more unveiling quality.
If i'd have a company making headphones like that i'd sell elements that are non printable together with 3D files, so those that can print and assemble them themselves wouldn't sit in my never ending waiting list.
You answered your own question by using the term "boutique." Only a limited percentage of the population would buy these given their very high prices. Why would the big companies be worried? EG .As of now the HD600 which is revered by so many is $300.00 on Amazon. A price point most can afford which spells more sales /profits for Sennheiser.
Because the headphone in the video its better than 800s at lower price, doesnt compete with hd 600.
I just wished more of them had presence outside of America. UK gets shafted hard since none of their products get sold overseas, so import charges galore.
True. Especially for warranty issues.
However headphones are "only" charged with VAT, they do not incur additional import duties.
I recently got my Tungstens for under £1500 inc shipping. Not bad seeing as the US has to pay tax on the $1500 price.
I'm sure if there was an official site they would cost more but at least it's easier on the mind if anything goes wrong.
A better dollar conversion would help. Sadly the days of $2=£1 are long gone.
EU too, this week I ordered €70 worth of ZMF pads and had to pay an extra €60 on top for shipping + import taxes :)
UK? Africa in the mud!
Even in Australia, with it's higher shipping costs & import fees for Western made goods, due to our lazy government and our remote location from everyone else, I'm learning it's worth it now to pay that little bit extra vs circle-jerking Chi-Fi every year, hoping "this next one won't have the QC issues" of the last. Currently saving for a pair of ZMF headphones and I won't be touching Chi-Fi again.
I agree this needs to change.
Reminds me of what happened when HiFiMAN and Audeze broke out onto the scene in 2008. There was a lot of complacency then, too, and planar-magnetic drivers weren't being taken seriously by the Sennheisers of the world...until they suddenly found their lunch had been eaten.
I've had the Dahlia for a couple weeks now and I love it. Build quality is great, really enjoyable tuning and surprisingly good on stuff like soundstage and imaging.
I think what is more impressive, is that as DCA and ZMF have scaled up, they haven't lost their high quality assurance and customer friendly approach
I'll be watching this space personally as it seems interesting. The thing for me though is that these are still quite expensive products overall so I'd argue that they're quite niche and not the sort of thing that post people will go for. You're taking a bit of a risk when you invest in companies like these when compared to the bigger brands where you have more kickback of something goes wrong. Equally, if there aren't people out there buying these, we're not going to see progress and bigger companies may not feel the need to compete.
I think the hype with this sort of thing will come when somebody is able to release a headphone which is impressive at a much lower price point - it's what most people will be buying at the end of the day. I think there's a reason chifi and IEMs have taken off really as the progress in that space is incredible, it's great for people entering at that point but also impressive for those of us who have been around for a while and can see how far we've come at the lower price points. Additionally, I think the reason headphones like the HD600 series, Beyerdynamics or the M50 were so hyped is that while they aren't exactly cheap, they're still accessible to many people. It's hard to have the same level of interest around something like the Mod House Tungsten with it being well into the four figure price point.
HFA Dahlia is on my long term wish list but, not being a massive audiophile, I don't see myself ever spending over 300 realistically
Fiio JT1 is your friend
Something that always stays in the back of my mind with DIY and small boutique products……
Is what I get going to be the same as what you get? How is QC being handled?
could it really be worse than sennheisers IE series that you spend? moondrop? id choose a guy in his garage anyday. SENNHEISER cant fix their ie600 scandal, ill go with the guy in the garage.
The QC is actually better. ZMF listens to & measures every unit & provides a lifetime driver warranty. HFA also measures every driver, provides you w a link to the graph for your specific unit, gives super detailed videos on how to care for your set & is very responsive & helpful. I feel more confident spending money w them than the big manufactures
@@NiclasSalcin I don’t own the IE 600 and I haven’t seen any widespread reports of problems. I’m not sure what you’re talking about after doing a search. Are there some failures? Sure, but not in the numbers you seem to be implicating. The IE 600 is one of the biggest products for knockoffs as well.
@@beefsupreme510 I own some ZMF’s and love them but I wouldn’t have bought them in their early days either! They are now an established, proven company who have long left the DIY moniker behind them. I also listened to them long before I ever bought. I think that I will continue this pattern in the future.
When it's boutique you have to trust the craftsman. If someone goes wrong you'll probably be talking to the person who made it and they'll likely get you sorted post haste.
I've been enjoying my Dahlia a lot! Had the good fortune of stumbling on them during SoCal 2024. Excited to see your take on it soon.
Don’t mess with D.I.Y’er’s in audio. Something I learned very well this year. These are the guys that shake up the market and apply new standards towards price to performance values. ☺️
Yeah, kinda like the Verum 1 throwing out cheap great planars and Dan Clark/MrSpeakers
Thank you for the shoutout! And for being a champion of innovation in the headphone industry. ❤
Why is one of the outer ribs beside the connector thicker than the others? Apart from that I like the design of your headphones.
@enjoyer_of_tinkering4706 because it's where the driver PCB is located. Without that cover you would be seeing a green PCB with cables soldered to it.
@@HomeroGraco I was talking about the curved ribs. One is slightly thicker than the other 24 of them. You are right about the very wide inner rib.
I checked the video "HFA Dahlia Build Series - Earcup Assembly" on HIFI FOR ALLs channel. The wire to the driver is hidden by the rib I was talking about, visible at 22:00. It bugs me less when I know the purpose behind it.
@enjoyer_of_tinkering4706 I see! I believe this is the one that carries the cables that connect the driver to the 3.5mm jack.
Cheers, love the Dahlia. Been enjoying it for some weeks now, quite impressive what we can get for the price.
These are all around 1.3-1.7k in my currency which is an absolutely insane ask when excellent headphones from reputable brands can be acquired for half of that. Until that's solved, I don't see them going anywhere.
Can you put links in the description for these? I’m new to the audiophile space and are unfamiliar with these brands.
Sorry, but why should i pay 1000-2000€ for a unkwon Headphone Brand, when i can get Audeze, Audio-Technica, HifiMan or beyerdynamic, who have Decades of experience, for the same Price? And before you ask, i have 17 Headphones from 170-1200€ and an SPL Headphone DAC+Amp for 2000€. No ChiFi.
To be fair beyerdynamic doesn't have a single good product these days aside from the 900X. Audio technica only has one (r70x).
What these small companies are doing is making products that are not just slightly better, but significantly (and measurably) better than the big audio brands.
Big brands have experience but clearly they're not using it.
I realized this after listening to the Borealis and Sash Tres. I still buy bigger brands like Focal or Stax, but it's starting to look a lot like the majority of my bang for buck HPs will be from smaller companies.
Sash Tres 45ohm beats LCD-X essentially by every measure for half to a third of the price.
When you say that most people will be buying these brands and that big brands will mostly not be around. You're strictly addressing audiophiles, right?
correct
Love these videos, more headphone lore! (the mustache is epic too)
Dahlia was easily my favorite headphone of 2024.
If you look at Sennheiser they have the HD-600 that they've been making since 1997(?) but they can't improve on it. They've tried, but I think being a shareholder driven company, they've just tried to make it cheaper and charge more.
Well, the E3 is my first DCA headphone, and it is really, really surprising, I really enjoy it and can't believe a closed back sounds that good. I have been a long time Audeze and Sennheiser owner, and I still do prefer my LCD-5 (although with a Moon Audio Black Dragon cable) over anything else I've had at home. Both of those companies do seem to shirt direction, at least on occasion. I cannot compare those against the three brand new small company designs you mention here. I absolutely agree that competition is always necessary and good to keep the big guys on their toes and push them to introduce products that target new preferences. I am really glad you have such positive thoughts about these new options that we have as headphone listeners.
You should check out the ploopy headphones, 3D printed planar magnetics. You can DIY them. I'm curious to the models you can make at home. That Dahlia looks great, I'd love to build those myself too.
Often times, small companies have the benefit of having the decision-makers closer to the community. Additionally, smaller companies are usually more agile and are able to act more quickly when compared to large companies. I would also guess that small companies are more likely to be satisfied with smaller profit margins than larger companies. I think the high industry will continue to be a space where small companies can make real impacts, particularly because of technologies like 3D printing which greatly reduce some of the production challenges.
Going fine with my K812...
These price categories are niche products.
Maybe they don't get as much hype at the moment because they're mostly in the estat space, but nectar audio is out there killing it too!
DMS you should check out the Mirph-1 from Mirph-designs a one man company from Munich with an amazing headphone
There's a pretty important omission here: big companies buy small(er) companies. So the only thing big companies should be scared about, is probably other big companies.
So like Crinacle and Zeos made collabs with companies we all look forward to you collabing with the three companies you’re reporting on and i do want to add that these companies post-pandora box opening i wonder if theyll take a Bose approach to acoustic channeling of the bass air push to tune the sub bass possibly or midrange on the ear cans themselves? I just see open back with grills to protect yes understandbly so but closed back i wonder if you or anyone that have access to 3d printer will take a car subwoofer bandapass box approach to already bulky over the ears headphones?
I cannot afford such a luxury right now, and I feel like that should be a primary point to be made. These ARE luxury products, sometimes things seem so casual for others. I must settle on my Sundaras, at the time $250.
I like the new stash. Hope you keep it.
Big audio companies are not afraid of products made using prototyping technologies.
They should be! SLS/MJF are def also production tech.
@ It’s more a stigma than anything with both materials, but there’s no denying that injection molding is preferred for industrial runs. Injection molding tends to produce stiffer and more durable parts. The only reason boutique builders don’t use it is that the barrier to entry is high and it doesn’t make sense for small runs (less than 1000 units). Also, historically, 3D printing is for prototyping and injection molding is for mass production. Even Apple does a lot of prototypes with 3D printing.
Finally, if the product is good and doesn’t break during normal use, it shouldn’t be an issue at all, but the stigma remains.
I'd love it if you, or the headphone show, reviewed the ETA o2.
Only problem atm is the limited availability in europe, but once more European indie companies start its going to be amazing
This is going on across niche markets in general. Lean and mean. With all the CAD drawing programs, 3D printing, and some people with great ideas, that have the drive and desire to make them happen. They won't be eating the lunch of the big companies, but they will be affecting the design directions that those companies take. If they were smart, they could capitalize on this synergy by collaborating with these Indies on a project that already is doing well, and put the weight of big manufacture behind it. That could end up being a win for everybody.
You can sell high end products but they mass market generates way more money. The problem is ,a small company comes up with a good product,gets huge and eventually does not adapt or innovate new products.
Some of the older companies only dabble in highend headphones.
Sony
T+A
Technics
Quad
Denon
Even Sonos
There is still only a handfull of big companies, manufacturing headphones as their main product.
DMS you should look into Rayn Audio. It's another headphone maker with interesting stuff, even a gold plated planar magnetic.
Looking forward to more reviews about Rayn's headphones
The difference is I will never get to hear any of these small establishment companies' headphones since they will never appear in canjam or any other audio shows. I am not going to blind buy them.
3D printing homes up the ability to pretty easily build complex designs that aren't highly structural (needing high structural performance), and the powder style printing can effectively build any shape without much of a restriction, and it's strong nylon without any major weaknesses, and the build tolerances are pretty tight. Now they're also getting a bright white powder and can start doing good colors. Plus if you do want metals, even 3D printed metals, you can buy it all on demand and at small numbers. There's such tiny barrier to entry for anything that isn't structural. I bring up structural only because that's the point where it gets tough to design anything good without being an engineer or hiring an engineer with the academic knowledge at least up to mechanics of materials. Without that level of knowledge, you don't really understand the physics well enough to design structural elements efficiently or often competently. But short of that, most hobbyists can play with CAD and 3D print stuff at home with almost zero barrier to entry. Even cost isn't much of a barrier, depending on how you go about your business and production model. You never have to make hundreds or thousands of units. You can literally build 1, or 5, or some other very, very small number, and the economics are pretty ok-ish even at that scale. If you're getting into fancier stuff, you can eve find small craftsman that are willing to build you stuff. Need a leather pouch to hold your product or cabling? Cool. There's probably some dude in Wyoming that just does it for fun in retirement. And because this market often isn't high volume, that kind of stuff kind of really, really works. A fun fact, even on big industrial machinery, it is often the case that production is still small number and still operates in ways a hobbyist would too. And there's industries that cater to them, to this model, where some dude who has literally a family run job shop in a town of 10,000, or less, with a 6 axis milling machine, lathe, robotic welder, and he's just kind of in podunk nowhere. Better yet, pricing and lead times are often good, and they will go out of their way to make you happy.
Tungsten is legit the best headphone out there , if you have the amp to drive it.. easily could be a one and done 😊
Do we have the same trend in IEMs? I've been looking for a better IEM because my Sennheiser IE600s have been absolute garbage (RMA'd 4 times in the year I've owned them for random driver failures)
Please make an Auribus Sierra, HFA Dahlia, HD6XX comparative review 😊
5:19 thats very Beyer
These absolutely quietly stole the show at canjam, I still want some. Best headphones I’ve put on my head, by a longshot.
what do you think about the dahlia vs hd800s?
which one should i buy?
price doesnt matter
Dunno if this is out there yet but I really miss ta simple list of headphones rated against each other in n absolyte fashion some folks used to do. Then I could just go look what's affordable and buy that next or try that next. Watching individual headphone reviews is for when you've already zeroed in on something.
Honestly, I look at companies like Koss. They really rested on the laurels for a long time, but I think their younger generation in the business has really injected new life into that brand. Over the last decade, they have gone from the "porta pro" brand to having a suite of new headphones that are focused on trying new ideas and fitting better within their side of the market.
i think this is a relevant conversation to have but the big companies have little to fear when their up and coming competition is in the 800+ dollar range and much of the world is down in the 50-250 range. for hifi specifically sure there is an argument that they are great deals but the rest of the price category they are not.
They really aren't the same markets, the economics and consumer priorities are just completely different. I'm not sure why there are so many comments pointing out the same thing, of course none of us 2 person operations are capable, or really even desire to compete with high volume commodity manufacturers. And vice versa, the low volume audiophile markets tend to necessitate very different approaches and teams, usually resulting in even large manufacturers buying or spinning up divisions dedicated to the luxury goods space with the capability to operate at an incredibly low production scale vs the commodity products (eg. Sony consumer vs Sony audiophile + Sony buying Audeze, or Sennheiser spinning off its consumer brand)
You look like 70s corn star i love it
I wish there was atleast one of those names written out below, cause I tried to find the "Erebus Acoustics" (left with hexagonal pattern), but I am sure I misheard or whatever...
Auribus Acoustics Sierra
HFA Dahlia
Modhouse Tungsten
@@DMS3TV Great. Now go write that in the description, bucko.
@@DMS3TV thank you very much
I’m looking at purchasing a milling machine for this purpose.
HFA Dahlia is so nice sounding. I remember hearing the earlier prototype before the 3D printed chassis and even back then it was impressive what they accomplished tuning wise.
Other indie makers to note of:
ETA - so far have improved on a lot of drawbacks of on-ear headphone designs. They are making their own dynamic driver as well and the prototype I heard seem really promising.
SJY - planar headphone maker, who just partnered with Apos for the Horizon Closed release
Wanted to add on another recommendation for ETA, been dailying a pair of their Mini-Cs for a while now, and really enjoy them. Great price/performance!
ETA is a great company & that keeps on improving!
The problem are these prices are crazy. DIY is more likely the way to go....
what do you think about the dahlia vs hd800s?
which one should i buy?
price doesnt matter
also i mostly play competitive fps
Apart from the SR60, what other good headphone does Grado make?
For me it's mainly the Hemp for rock music, I tried one from the PS line (500 I think) and it sounded OK as well. I haven't tested the higher end models.
I think DMS is referring to the SR60 and the Hemp.
@@rem792 If it is the Hemp I'll check it out.
The hemp/325X are interchangable. I would recommend swapping pads probably too.
Isn't it normal? Thats why big companies like SONY buy small companies like AUDEZE. And why companies like Sennheiser sell parts of their company, to be more competitive
Any opinions on hifi man’s edition xs refurbished/open box? I want to get my first pair of legit headphones that are open back but have a pretty tight budget. And if they are a good buy, any idea if the newest steel series dac amp is a solid enough device to drive them?
Traditional companies usually get disrupted and disappeared. That's the fact of life. When people are hungry, they work harder and strive. When people are successful, they get complacent and lazy. That's the fact of life.
FiiO are delivering well received and cost effective products.
I blinked. And now DMS has facial hair.
I blinked and you got a mustache....I'm afraid of doing it again.
A moustache like that will diffuse any sound wave bouncing off your lips which can helps to improve clarity on any headphones…
Love the Tom Selleck look
Not even joking, I’m loving the Freddie Mercury look.
To me, it's a lot like when hipsters say "I listened to them before they were cool" etc. There's value and pride of ownership with some of the "if you know you know" stuff. Or just the idea of small bespoke, craft stuff. I absolutely love it. Just hope there's stuff in my tax bracket.
$300 wired headphones top. Other it is like a 10kg bicycle, every gramm off, costs +$100
What is different about the drivers in these products?
Personally, I think the worst thing that has happened to the prosumer headphone market in the past few years is Sonova aquiring Sennheiser.
I had to replace a couple pair of 20+ year old headphones this past year (HD280 & HD660) the modern versions are just not the same. They feel more like toys than the originals. The sound better than the worn out pairs, but Im not sure they sound the same as the did. Then again maybe my ears are getting worn out too. 😊
I see you with that Christopher Ward
Is it fun to stay at the YMCA?
I'm not ready to put out 1500 for a Tungsten
Yeah it’s great this is happening. Tendency to give price as high as possible or as some people are willing to pay is out of comment. Headphones even with an amp for 60k is also nonsense. Crossing my fingers for these business
I listed to the first half of this video and then I saw the stash - shocker lol
how does the aurorus borealis compare to these?
The OG one I think is a great example of walking so the current indie hifi scene can run. I'm def interested in checking out the v2 at some point.
Hey am i the process of building such headphones here in egypt after trying to get the small headphones kinda lost on the provider of some componets if you can guide me or lets us get in touch would be great
Oh oh, after Alex 'o Connor, DMS is starting his own moustache arc
The major tool is a big focus group. And only big companies are able to afford this tool.
Honestly these days I think that's leading to worse decisions. Using focus groups and ignoring the body of science has resulted in very poor frequency response a good number of times.
The mustache makes you look like officer Dangle.
JM Audio XTC2 Open....this is a very good open back headphone and the owner of the company can tune your cans personally to your taste 🤷♂
Considering the price
Nah the brands will feel safe
Dont feel like they’ll make THAT BIG of a difference unless there’s budget products between $100-$500
Where is the mullet that goes with the stash?
I think the established players will continue to exist but they will definitely need to take a hard look at their prices. If they don't then they'll be gone. Ultimately better audio quality at cheaper prices benefits all of us, the consumers.
DMS is making Men Greater Again !
Are they for sale? Prices?
The HFA Dahlia & Airibus Sierra are available now. The Tungsten have a 10+ month waitlist
HFA = $879.99
Auribus = $999.99
Tungsten (starts) = $1499.00
@@jakepsychdr7165 thank you for the data
I want vmss to come back in a way
After technical advances of HD 800s and the failure of HD700 ,I was expecting an new exiting HD750 but ... LOL!🤣🤣🤣🤣
buh bye big companies. These and (yours) are so nice.
The earrings are gone, the mustache is grown; the only thing left is to hit the gym.
I've been training for several years. I'll probably get my gauges back one day.
No glasses DMS???????
Will they last the test of time?
DIY is the future of audio
doubt
im working on doing one myself rn
The future is wireless any way.
Call me when these cool independants can release good headphones for less than $300
I think we'll see that in the next 5 years. The main probem is that costs millions to do.