Why do closed backs suck? (but I still love them)
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2024
- Some of my favorite headphones in the hobby are closed back, but you and I won't hear them the same. Here's why!
The DCA E3 review I mentioned in this video: • FINALLY! The closed ba...
The DCA E3 (NOT affiliate link): headphones.com...
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Many of my favorite headphones are closed back. E3 is one of the best headphones ever made imo.
But the big point of this video is our experiences will vary a lot more than with open backs.
Happy listening!
I know this is unrelated but I wanted to say, whatever this aspect ratio is, is very VERY good for the content you produce, the talking head bits feel full, and there is enough space for extra data/graphs. Not suggesting specifically but when you cut to showing the graphs horizontally, I think you should set up the shot more wide with your person taking up one side, and stacking the information vertically. Love the videos
brooo still waiting for earbud roundup video 2.
For those “I still love my” or “Is this a good” comments, the issue he’s pointing out is that with closed backs it can have a fantastic FR on your head and a crappy one on another head because of that acoustic impedance.
The trouble w closed is that they vary so much more person to person.
Bro I love you lighting setup and whole background looks so aesthetics
I owe you a big thank you for your review of the E3! I bought one, and it is the most enjoyable headphone I’ve ever listened to, yet it’s extremely detailed and transparent like the highest end open-backs I’ve ever owned or heard.
A very mild correction around 4:20: active feedback control for headphones actually does lower acoustic impedance, just like it can lower amplifier output impedance. As you say, audiophiles sadly won't accept active headphones, so this isn't pertinent to the video as a whole.
For me closed back have their own unique sound to it and and imo having a good closed back in a collection is a good difference experience to have on hand.
That's why I have my MDR Z1R around to be a contrast to my ADX5000& Clear.
oof
This is like peering 7 years into the past.
@@benstain2674 and? I fullsize headphones have way less innovation compared to IEMs, and man even with I currency have I can close my eyes and check back in 5 years and only then anything new is worth looking into.
@@benstain2674NOTHING wrong with the Sony's to me in real - time
STILL SEE GOOD REVIEWS /Bass
NO NEED TO CHASE RABBIT
HAVE IEMS TOO.
At home I use open over-ear headphones but on the street I use true wireless earbuds
On the street I cover my open back headphones with my hands. 3D chess.
The Galaxy buds 2 pro are awesome.
I use iems when I’m out of the house
Same 👍
TWS on the street, open planar on the sheets.
Banger video.
On a related note, I hope the folks on the Discord are making progress on finding some way to share info about FR variation for different heads and such. Since it's turning out to matter so much for what you can and can't predict, in terms of how someone's experience will match the next person's. There's preference, and then there's "literally different sound reaching your ears" before preference even has a chance to play into it. If that's going on (definitely is), I hope the discourse can start to include it more.
This video was oddly well-timed for me: after catching up on old headphones show and new Noise Floor live streams, I was wondering about the significance of acoustic impedance, since it keeps getting talked about. Thanks for the explainer, much easier to follow than the papers I was trying to make sense of.
Fiio FT1 just dropped! Can't wait for your review!
I have one on the way and I'm so excited to try them out
they're so pretty and well built and I hear the tuning is nice too so I'm getting giddy
@@swarontm6096 Extremely well built and comfortable with a natural tuning!
You brought back the former ending music. Great. 😉
Good point. Considering variables like hairstyle and the thickness of glasses arms affecting the front volume seal, it’s an even bigger issue than I initially thought. I'm surprised you don't have problems with bass while wearing those glasses.
I know they’re getting old, but how do you think the Aeon 2 Noir is holding up in today’s closed back market under 1k?
IMO, yes. It's one of only two sub-1k headphones I feel really comfortable recommending, the other being the Focal Radiance.
Absolutely. It's a brilliant headphone.
Edit: the close back market is still pretty sparse. It changes at a slower pace and that's not really a bad thing.
My favorite ones are closed, mainly because I play video games, and have for my whole life... So the headsets I've used have always been closed. Never gotten to experience open ones, but I would love to.
The two headphones on my list to buy are Audeze Maxwell and HD600. After watching your video on Headphones Show for finding the best headphone for me, I have added HD490 Pro to the list to get as well lmao.
I think opens are amazing for games, especially single player stuff, but you do have to factor in background noise. Open backs can be problematic if your PC or console is loud, at least for me I hate background noise.
Before I upgraded my setup and ventured into audio, I had a razer headset for years. And I will admit, it was nice not having to worry about that, every game I could just put on headphones and get completely immersed immediately, forget about the outside world. With open backs I don't get that to the same extent. Immersion comes with time and can be broken easier.
That said, it seems you'd have to spend a lot to get as good closed backs as my Anandas are, so I don't think I'll be swapping to closed in the near future.
@@ZenTunE- second this! The experience I get in simulation games like Minecraft and even horror games with open backs just feel amazing! I think it is very much preference tho, and my biggest reason wasn't stuff like acoustic impedance, just, how tight everything felt on closed backs made me feel like I was suffocating. Surprisingly though I don't feel the same way with IEMs.
@@ZenTunE- The current headphones I use are Logitech's g pro x wireless. I've always hated wires, even with the knowledge that it's gonna give me better audio etc. That's why the Maxwell's are on my bucket list as I've heard that they're pretty much the best wireless headphones for the price. I say headphones as I got external mic already.
Still learning of this space, I'm very picky with my choices as I basically am always looking for both the best hardware to price ratio, as well as... Repairability, part replacement options, customization etc. I want my products to last lol.
Amp/dac's are still the pain points on my research to figuring out which one to get when I begin purchasing the said products, but I've settled on the Topping DX3 Pro+.
Lemme know if you've got any recommendations for other amp/dac combos. Mainly PC gamer these days, built a Mini ITX in SSUPD Meshlicious few years back lol.
@@paolovincedelgado559 I kinda get that from my CHU2 IEMs, to a lesser extent but still. But maybe that's because I always play with the Anandas, open backs are so wide it makes everything else feel constrained in comparison.
The Chu2 sounds fine, but I've tried them in Red Dead 2 and it's such an upgrade that open backs make to the liveliness of the auditory world of the game.
@@Ezz0Clan I don't have much experience with dacs or amps, I have a Schiit Fulla that I used to daily drive Hifiman Sundaras with, and now the Anandas. All I can say is that it doesn't sound much different than just the apple dongle, to my ears at least. Maybe a bit "bigger" but that could be placebo.
And for the purpose of a dac, the $10 apple dongle does what I need it to. It eliminates the noise floor that my motherboard and phone jacks have. Any other benefits I don't notice myself. Or pay attention to.
If you so decide to go with wired, that Topping is probably a great pick. I wouldn't spend much more than that on source gear.
PC is nice, there's always some stuff you can do to make it quieter, if needed. Mini ITX does limit your options a bit though I imagine, I'd assume you have to run fans a bit faster than a larger case to keep temps in control?
Beyerdynamic DT-250 Pro / 250 Ohm.
A by reviewers heavily slept on headphone, yet very very good sounding and comfy closedback. 🌟
I still love my DCA Aeon Closed ❤
DCA definitely has the best closed backs.
Also ⅓ of closed backs are DT770's with more unit variation than some brands have model variation.
I’ve been watching a lot of over ear headphone reviews lately. I’m not an audiophile by any stretch of the imagination, just looking for a good sound. I’ve been getting a lot of ear infections in the past 18 months so in ears are out of the question. I’m a truck driver and use my iPhone 15 Pro for music listening so am thinking closed back is probably the way to go. There’s just so much choice out there. Great video.
I had the same issue with ear infections from IEM's and TWS earbuds.
My Dr. told me that since they became popular, he has seen a major increase in ear infections in people. He told me to stop using them. He said "Anything that goes inside your body is by definition surgical", and these IEM's etc that we toss in our backpacks etc are obviously not sterile, so I'd advise anyone still using them to at least give them a wipe of alcohol before use.
Also, never use in-ears right after a shower. Let your ears dry out really well for at least an hour first.
Thanks for recommending DCA Aeon Noire and Sennheiser IE600. Both are joyous.
please put Project Omega product link in every videos you create from now on, thank you
I guess the actual take-away here is "Try before you buy", trust your own judgement - and be more tolerant of others who love headphones that you may swear sound like crap on your ears.
I love my k371, DT 700 pro X and my Maxwell. They are all great for different use case scenarios. I wonder if the Maxwells, which are basically a very good DAC/Amp in your ears with DSP algorithms trying to make it all sound better, have that technology that DMS was mentioning of inner microphones for compensating for acoustic impedance? I don't think they do but I wonder if they might have something like that in order to be able to receive as much praise as they have ( I can attest for it, they're great!)... or is that kind of technology relegated only to Airpods Max and the like? Anybody care to comment?
Going from glasses to contacts probably helped me appreciate my current closed-back pair more.
I find that pad-swapping is the best way to improve the sound of headphones on any system -- no EQ necessary. This includes closed-back models like the Audio-Technica ATH-M50x and Shure SRH-840a, both of which improve significantly with Brainwavz Micro Suede Oval earpads. (Their stock pads are uncomfortable garbage.)
I've not heard a great deal of different headphones, but the Focal Radiance is something special which I think most people would enjoy.
DMS, Doug, my guy! Sell me like 10-15 of those extra foam insterts you got. i love the headfoam wall idea. but i want to store my headphones in them when not in use. What you doing with all them extras?
also happen on iem. especially when people just trashing on some good iem just because they dont want to find perfect fit eartips
I could post a list of my personal favorite closed back headphones and surprisingly most just happen to be very cheap.
Getting a very good sounding open headphone definitely tends to be much more expensive
What are some of the best closed backs i can get $300?
@@sauravmehra4503Audeze Maxwell and it’s not even close
I got it. Variable volume closed ear headphones. They run the tuning sounds, and physically change the cup size accordingly
Bit of a misconception about acoustic impedance. Impedance is a property of a material or homogeneous body, which describes the ratio between pressure difference and particle speed, rather than wave velocity/group velocity etc. And on the boundary between two bodies, you get more reflection the more different their impedances are. Slight oversimplification but that's the gist. I've never heard a space or area or boundary be described as having an impedance, although I guess it's not an invalid idea.
My first open back was senn 58x and I'm not sure if I could ever go back to closed back.
With such a big variance as shown at 1:27 (15 dB in some cases) why should anyone listen to any review? If there is some major problem with a headphone, most of the time it's related to the high freq. and as shown it's extremely subjective.
That's probably the reason why HE doesn't like the Beyerdynamic sound signature but most people do.
I love open back stuff but the DT770 80Ohm does hit a little different every once in a while and when I'm travelling I plug it into my Qudelix and get a wonderful travel setup.
Thank you very much!
Focal Elegia are at the top of my list! Adorama 200 bucks. Tubes, old receivers, balanced all well done! You guys taught me well D
Highly recommend a Qudelix 5k (or just Equalizer APO) and Resolve's EQ preset with the Elegia. Without EQ the frequency response has some unique (I'd say weird sounding) features, like boxiness and very forward mids, but with EQ it's fantastic!
Simple tone control adjustment. Just used an old little Sansui and Tube Pre and fantastic!
Very spot on assessment, I concur.
If I want a closed in sound, I prefer the intimacy of iems more than closed back headphones. They're just more comfortable because iems, and open back headphones, make my head get less hot than a closed back headphone.
Tbh i've always used closed back headphones, the isolation just make them so immersive for playing, rn my favs are the dts 1770 with central sound pads, and honestly they sound amazing even without eq, i've heard that some people actually hates them, but when i first used them it was love from first sight, there's something unique about closed headphones, i do understand that for music probably open back are better since it feels like the music it's actually with you on the room, but i do prefer more the immersive isolation
To me Atrium Closed is outstanding headphone for any type of music
Just got one a couple weeks ago and absolutely love it
I still kind of disagree with the take that closed back, in general, are bad; granted I have yet to listen to a pair of open backs. That being said, it was interesting to learn a little about acoustic impedance. That is why I like these kinds of videos, your explanations are easy to understand.
That's why many people suggest iem in stead of closed-back headphone, especialy in the budget section. I still love my focal bathys but I find myself using an iem more even if it's a bit inconveniene to have a cable dangling around.
Great video as per usual! Any chance we see an Omega Closed, or just a DMS tuned closed back in the future?
i cant use anything but open back. not so much for the sound, but the comfort, i cant wear closed back for more than an hour or two, and i'm ready to throw them across the room lol. i've used the HD600's and the HD650's religiously for the last decade or so.. i can wear them for 10+ hours if/when needed a day for days on end. also, being married closed back would prevent me from hearing the mrs.. and thats never a good thing.
for me, the audio quality on both open and closed back are just fine.. but i just love the open and larger sound stages of the open backs.
now if Audeze would make the maxwell in open back..... i might be tempted in that direction lol
My daily driver is the Aeon RT closed! I've used open backs at the PC in the past, but closed back is much better on a noisy environment
I love the closed DCAs
Although I come from a different price region, I also prefer closed headphones to open ones. My personal reference is the Sennheiser HD270.
i feel like I just unlocked full-screen XD
The Sony MDR-Z1R are my favourite headphones almost ever, I use them now more often than even my open backs...
I tried the E3 (and Stealth, Lyric 2, and Stelia) at Canjam London but they sounded awful to me...
Fantastic video, thanks a lot!
I’ve never tried an open-back pair good enough to listen to extreme metal genres, they are too bright, the same goes for bass-rich electronic and dance music.
I've always preferred closed back.
honestly one my fav headphones are the pad swapped Audio Technica ath a500z (japanese version, no different to 550 except the number). Clicked so fast on the video when I saw similar headphones in the thumbnail lol. I wouldn't consider them better than a lot of my other headphones, but they have some quirks and kinks that my other headphones just don't have
I've had dozens of closed backs that were fun or interesting, but not a single one that I would consider good. There's not a single situation (other than comfort, depending on the person) where closed backs, even very expensive ones, pull ahead of IEMs to me. The sub $100 IEM space, to me, drastically outperforms the $1000+ closed back headphone space. If DCA could figure out how to fix the hamstringed dynamics in their planars, I could see them pulling off something decent, but I won't hold my breath.
why ear snail reject the dopamine sound
Hi, could you recommand/sell good in-ear microphones ? I personally use the Sound Professional in-ears, I cut the earhook and glue the mic to earplugs, but if you have something more sturdy in mind it would be very great for us geeky audiophiles. Excuse my English I am French. Thanks for the good content !
I bought the AKG K361s based on your recommendation actually and love them. Makes you wonder how they did it.
I had Akg K361 too, but I don't like it. It almost pushes me to replace it with Akg K371. Now I'm a Hifiman guy. 😄
Need those bass ports
I've gone through thousands of dollars in both open & closed back headphones. In the end, I'm using a pad swapped ATH-M50x. EQ'd, nothing beats it.
I'm still trying to find a good closed back that doesn't cost an insane amount, but every single one I've tried has disapointed me. The latest I've tried was the HD620S, and it wasn't bad but really wasn't worth the asking price.
I’ve tried out closed backs and I just don’t like any of them. The only headphones I’ve truly liked were the HD650, but those are open backs.
All of the closed back headphones I’ve tried are either too bright or too bassy for me.
Do you like E3 more than the Noire? From the same harman paper DCA Noire is the one with the lowest variation, surprisingly good variation from person to person actually.
I love the Hifiman HE-R9.
At least someone does!
I got the jm mod version of the re9 and it is better @@Hijynx87
Great video 🥰
My DCA Aeon X closed changes sound quite a lot if i shuffle them around on my head.
Headphones are such an individual, personal thing already, since everyone's ears are so different. Those differences are much more pronounced in closed-backs. So, what I did: I got open-backs that I like, that make me feel like I'm listening in a room where the music is performed. Good indicators are whether natural instruments have a natural timbre, i. e. sound real, and whether binaural recordings sound real. The Beyerdynamic DT 880 Edition did this for me. Then I compared different closed-backs to see which one comes closest to that. Surprise: It was the DT 770 Pro. For me, they were clearly beating the K-361, DT 700 Pro X, DT 770 Pro X LE, and others. But I admit I didn't check anything above 250 bucks.
I just got the new Pro X and I love it - have the DT 770 pro and I think the Pro X is a great upgrade. I agree with your philosophy however in that good headphones can be had for a lot less than you think. This hobby now insists you spend thousands - no thanks.
I feel like IEMs have the exact same problem
Headphone makers, please collab with DMS on a Project Omega Closed with DSP
What dac/Amp is good for high end headphones like the dca e3? Would the atom stack be good enough?
idk my IEM's are closed back and are totally rad
What dac/Amp do u run with the DCA E3? Would the atom stack be good enough?
05:23 Would u say this is where the TH900, HD820 stands out?
I used closed backs for a long time in high school and then i founf out about good iems and never used closed backs again. I just didnt need them any more
Project Alpha DMS made closed back when
Hello. Could you please recommend some wireless overear headphones under 150 dollars ?
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I like only one headphone maxwell. I have so many open backs headphones from different prices but when I hear this deep clear rumbling bass I am hooked no open back headphone compares and feels like not fulfilling. Can someone explain.
P.s headphones like 560s HD800 6xx r70x and more open backs.
Well, the obvious reason closed backs suck is that you can't combine them with simultaneously listening to your speakers like open backs.
Please, what is that headband accessory you’ve got there? I have my E3s as well, and love them. But a month later, they still leave a nasty hot spot on the top of my head.
Look at the ZMF Crescent Snap
@@andtothewestamerica thank you so ever much. Been wanting to get some padding, but couldn’t figure out what would fit best on the DCA headband. Then I saw this video and jumped in my chair in excitement. 😅
Why is no one talking about what changes have been made to the HD560S headphones since the release?
560s hasn't really changed functionally
@@DMS3TV Some have measured considerable differences, but of course I approach these with caution. However, it was interesting to see the differences in the pictures when the original and new ones were disassembled.
@@EarphonesFin I find it likey it's all the clone measurement rigs and some degree of unit variation.
Most of the clone rigs are not reliable
There are some pictures of some changes that they made. I don’t know how those changes affect, but it is still interesting. I totally agree that measuring devices and methods certainly affect the results. The number of buyers for these compared to expensive headphones is much higher, so I thought this could be of interesting. However, almost all reviewers have reviewed these, and according to them many make a purchase decision.
I have MDR-Z1R and Aeon Closed X. I don't want to hear extraneous noise when I listen to music.
Same here
Well apparently my head is made for closed-backs. Always preferred em. Open-backs were always a negative for me, sound-wise.
I've always loved closed backs too
Isolation is overrated. Volume is the answer
You do know you can get a good closed back for bugger all - it's called the Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro X. Less than 200 bucks US FFS. Why does everyone feel the need to spend 2 thousand dollars on closed back!! Ok it has the Beyer Treble but if you are sensitive dial it down by 3db and enjoy. It's a seriously good upgrade from the DT 770 pro.
anyone can make a good open back, closed back are where it's at
If I could walk through wall I would go rob a bank so I can have enough money to buy all the nice headset
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Ay-oon? Ow-nuh? Aw-nee?
beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro joined the chat 😂
questyle cma18 with an ipod classic. Thats possible right?
Finally someone said it! Listening to Hifiman headphones is like getting my ears stabbed with needles
I guess everyone is different but I love hifiman
@@bigdave216I love Hifiman too.
@@gavinxq2274 my favorite by far has to be my edition xs
@@bigdave216 Wish I can say the same but I never had Edition XS. Headphones I like: HE400SE, HE-X4, Ananda Nano. Headphones I don't like: SHP9500, AKG K361, HD600. Ananda Nano is what I'm wearing now, it sounds nice but not relaxing, like it strikes me as a focus needing headphone.
@@gavinxq2274 unpopular opinion my favorite for relaxing is monolith m1070
QUESTION: If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around to hear it, does it mean that the tree doesn't make a sound?
That would mean that sound only exists by definition if there are ear drums to sense the molecular fluctuations. It's like an unheard melody, waiting for a matching "impedance" (our ears) to bring it to life!
Closed back all day every day because you get more immersed better bass especially for gaming . it's a no brainer Closed back is best .
lol ok gamer
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why did you do it... why did you delete that video....
What video?
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GM☕️
I have all open backs ..I’ve tried a few closed backs ..and i didn’t dislike them ..but I don’t exactly feel like opening my wallet….
🎧
@@ReverendDr.Thomas GM (here) ☕️
can you explain why the headphone change sound when i change the device i play?
Unless it’s an exceptionally bad device or tube based, the reason will pretty much always come down to a volume mismatch (even using precise measurement equipment to do it, getting a perfect volume match can be impossible), which changes the human perception of sound quite significantly, even for tiny differences. That and bias is a risk for some too.
@@sormwilly6370 Uh, devices? Be it DACs or amps, TL,DR: Everyone does everything differently and tries to perfectly recreate audio differently, but all ears are different, therefore we have choice.
Interesting idea for a video, though!
Ha, i hate open back headphones. Always had closed back and always will.
I'm a big closed back fan personally
What? That makes no sense. They literally just sound better.
@@ChrisStoneinator there's some benefits to a closed. SNR/isolation is a big one (especially if you live downtown like me)
@@DMS3TV Sure, there are reasons why closed might be your only option. But to hate open back headphones implies some kind of strong negative experience with them which just doesn't make any sense.
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