in the age where youtubers are too afraid to lose their "sponsers" by actually giving bad reviews to certain products, I fkin love ur balls for ACTUALLY sayin what is good and bad (with reasons). I love this video and I subbed immediately.
As they should be. I have the Focal Elex, they're leagues ahead of any 600 series, but I'd still rather mix on a pair of 650s that are corrected with Sonarworks.
The HD600's aren't perfect, but beyond the light bass, they're quite good when the ear pads aren't worn out. When they are, it's almost like listening to just mids when you compare to a speaker. It's not just mids, but they definitely stick out a lot. My favorite are the Sundara's with the 2020 pad revision for their extra technical performance, decent mids but extended bass and treble. Sounds flatter than the 600's but very slightly less mids ~1.5khz. mild EQ around there and the bass helps a lot and the lie distortion makes it have no effect on technical performance. Most studio headphones are a rip-off though, the 600's are about the best that get recommended for that use, besides maybe the MM-500 but I've never heard that one.
New as in from the OEM, or 3rd party? Me personally, I did not like their velours, so I found a fancy fenestrated suede pad that was close to vanilla tuning.
I was a Sennheiser guy for over ten years, but after getting tired of replacing pads every year (especially now that the quality seemed to have dropped), I bought a FiiO FT3 and I haven't looked back. I think any headphones are fair for mixing if you know what you are doing and most importantly, you understand how music translates in it. For me, the biggest mistake of mixing with headphones is not using your headphones. It's so much harder to mix with headphones if you only put them on to mix, or if you use them all the time but you enable a specific software or curve to make them sound "studio ready" when mixing. Usually when I mix with headphones, I'm not looking for accuracy, but for familiarity. I want my mixes to sound like the music I listen to, and that works fine for me.
I agree, also I feel like nothing compares to listening to recordings you admire on multiple systems, and of course your own gear. I feel like I can get a good mix on any reasonable set up as long as I reference some top notch recordings on it first.
I have the HD600/HD660s and replaced the pads on both sets with ZMF pads. They’re amazing and likely won’t have to be replaced anytime in the near future
@@MikeTaffet That's good to know, thanks. Last one I got directly from Sennheiser didn't last a year before they unglued and started showing the insides of the pads.
i think paid courses are great. you can really go into detail and produce a decent product because you are compensated for your time. people who put up loads of free content without getting paid in any way are either ego driven narcissists or hobbyists whos information is certainly not great. no, by far the best is getting info from a pro whos getting financially rewarded for making a good learning product
@APMastering I've experienced work with hobbyists that made my work sound better than pros. The reason was that the hobbyists was 100% in the music style where the pro was more generalist.
pro means you do it as your day job not that you specialise on everything. if you sent me a very specific kind of american country album, i'd do it if you wanted me, but i'd tell you up front that's not my speciality. id hope someone absolutely obsessed with country would do a better job than me. but no hobbyists are beating me consistently in techno for example
I have to be honest, regardless of its relatively cheap quality, the VSX headphones with the software is something different. I don’t even care what it is, but I’m telling you it works for me. 👍🏻👍🏻
Watching this video wearing HD600 lol Bought them 10 years ago, since then broke the cable 3 times, changed worn out ear pads, but the cans themselves sound amazing till this day.
The 600's are basically forever headphones. I keep them despite having fancier ones, because I know they'll last. The Sundara I think are just a little better and flatter and definitely more technical.
@@theexpatgunner I've not heard the 660s2 but it's a funky in between, they get slightly recessed mids more in line with most other headphones in order to get more bass impact and treble in relativity. Plus more detail capable drivers. It's not a 600 or 650 but it's not hugely far off as most headphones are in comparison. Maybe even the Sundara would be closer to the 660s tuning wise. Idk.
Same deal with my Sundara, especially with a little EQ. Much more detail and better tuning in either end, the 600's are quite mid focused which is the most important part to get right, but you can't really judge bass on them or sparkle up top.
Slate VSX is a different animal, you cannot simply put them on and judge them. It took me about a week for my ears to adapt to them because in the beginning, all I heard was Phase. Like a good room, these also have their own place for learning the soundstage. For me, I never heard anything like these. You feel like the bass is around you and not only in your head.
I suspect y'all are talking about the 'phantom image' that a stereo speaker set gives you in the centre of the sound stage. I totally agree. I use VSX for mixing now; and I'm not comparing them to the experience of mixing in the studio with ATC's of a few months back, but mixing on old (big) passive JBL's or Tannoys and even NS10's (with tissue paper) for near field (which I loathed). That JBL sound was something I got used to, and learnt to love, because it was consistent when I played my reference mixes on them. That's where I am with VSX... because of the phantom centre imaging and the detail that's at least as good as all the JBL's (referred to by competitors as Junk, But Loud, back in. the day) I grew accustomed to (we were coming off analog 8-16 track tape remember!) I can 'trust' VSX to mix on, especially with probably 1000 hours and counting of listening to reference mixes, some of which was performed, engineered, recorded, mixed or produced by me. I'll also add that I have NEVER 'mastered' my own tracks, and in fact use specific engineers for specific genres, often based on their discography, as heard by me, in a studio, now via VSX, as a reference. Mastering and engineering/mixing (and producing) are different beasts, and the most renowned exponents of each are specialists. Even Andy Wallace DOESN'T MASTER HIS OWN STUFF. A mastering suite and a recording/mixing studio are different beasts too, and I'd never suggest mastering via VSX, UNLESS THAT'S ALL I HAD. But, I'd much prefer to record as dry as possible, 'mix into my console/busses' to get as close as possible, then let a mastering engineer add the fairy dust on top... with the target media/audience in mind as well.
Everyone keep in mind: This is only from perspective of a Mastering engineer. Ultimately one has to really learn their mixing reference, and know where it is hyped or deficient. PS: oh btw, ANY headphone (except maybe in-ears) will be significantly position-dependent. There again, one needs to learn where it feels consistently like it's sitting right, and sounding the way you recognize. But i do agree the Sennheisers are nice 👍
expensive, overrated, not pro at all, frequency response is all over the place Generally it is clearer than HD600 but at the same time it can be also muddier. For example bass extends further, drums sound more natural, deeper, but less lively, less punchy than on HD600. For example acoustic guitar bass strings sound thick/middy as they should but they lack the sound of fresh strings or natural guitar string noise, on HD600 the guitar sounds brighter, very close to original and HD560s first version brings out the fresh strings "zing" too much. (but it is revealing) female vocals, singers like Adele sound sharp or almost distorted sometimes, but it is only certain range of frequency, other singers may actually sound darker than on 600 Improved 490 PRO would be great, but currently it is a weird headphone HD600 is not perfect either, for electronic music it sucks as it everything is "blurred", 490 is much tigher/clearer-thick sounding, while 560s is tight-thin but I understand if you do a mix on 600 then it will sound exciting on everything else lol So the advantages are: big sound stage, imho bigger than 560s, very nice low-mids, detailed disadvantages: too heavy/thick sounding, less punch/impact than 560s/490, mids/treble are weird, can be both darker and brighter depending on a song... simply less predictable I would say this, frequency wise 490 are closer to 600 compared to 560s, they are full/thick sounding. But despite of their brightness, I found 560s to be more consistent and more natural sounding (natural, but thin/bright, it is hard to explain). So for some vocals HD600/560s sounded fine (560s thin/bright) but 490 started to sound too textured/harsh. But it also depends what one needs, do you need something which is revealing some small details or problems quickly etc or something which sounds closer to other systems to see how it may translate.
@@chungang7037 and I agree, even though have returned HD600 because I prefer tighter sounding headphones like 560s or 490, and I am not a pro. But it is my preference and 600 was the closest to real life in terms of mids, except it is too smooth for my needs, but the timbre/overall details/texture is just right for "natural" music. so +1 for HD600 😄
I actually agree with this guy's opinion on almost everything he says regarding audio. He records his video with a potato, however, and that really causes my chi to become misaligned. It's also hilarious that he talks about expensive monitors and headphones and records himself speaking with a crappy iPhone microphone. :)
The MEMS devices in most phones now days are fairly high performance compared to the typical electrete mic most would unknowingly use. There are a surprising number of mics out there that, despite the fancy packaging and the lofty performance claims are nothing more than a basic electrete element at the front.
Not that you need them, but you should try the Avantones Planars, one of the most neutral planar magnetic headphones out there, also not expensive for a planar headphone. Edit: I have an HD6xx and the Avantone has a similar fequency response, but with all the benefits of the planar driver.
I think for measuring accuracy you would need to have a set of audio listening tasks, like matching an audio signal with an eq version of it, or to drop in a mix of sine waves and slightly distorted version of them in random order to see if you can hear the difference and then give it some points.
Fascinating video, thank you. What do you think of the lower end Austrian Audio headphones? The x65 at 600$ is interesting, but I wonder if it might qualify for your category of "too revealing or too detailed" for monitoring. I could see how being too detailed especially could end up being distracting, especially if it is revealing issues in the recording that only .005% of people will hear when they wear over engineered audiophile headphones.
I went out and bought over 20 headphones to test for mixing...the ones that were the most comfortable and got the best results were the Shure SRH1840 Headphones..test them out when you get a chance they are amazing! I had the Sennhesser 650 even though they are great for listening and relaxing they were a bit too "veiled" for mixing...the mixes would come back too bright.
This^ i have a pyle speaker that comes with a microphone and everything and can be bluetooth or aux and its like the cheapest low quality speaker i have but its been named the "speaker of truth" cause i have the volume marked to stay in the same place forever and i test every mix on it to try and get it as loud as it can without crumbling as alot of my favorite tracks that i use as a reference are right at the point that would start distorting if i turned it up any further. I think everyone needs a cheap mono speaker or atleast learn how to set your device to play mono only so u dont have anything only working cause it panned enough then phase cancel out or just not sound right on mono speaker
You need to try the Audio Technica ATH-R70x's. They're the "alternative" to the HD600's. Personally, they have sat on my head for hours on end and they're incredibly light and the "headband" (or lack thereof) is fantastic for any shaped cranium. I've used them for 2.5 years now and they're fantastic, even great for FPS gaming as the imaging is incredibly detailed.
it isn't more important to be used to the monitoring system you have instead of trying to find the flatest one? If you know how good mixes sound in your system that's good enough, right?
Fantastic. I am a very amateur music maker and I have a set of beyerdynamic dt 770 pro headphones which I love. They are closed back and the reason I like them is because I can record with my mic and not pick up any leakage. Obviously in a professional situation where you are just monitoring the artist open backs are fine if you are isolated but if like me you are the artist,the sound engineer, the tea boy and all the other jobs then Closed back are what I need. Good video and it's nice to hear an honest set of opinions that aren't influenced by sponsored products.
I use Beyerdynamic DT 990 250 ohm, but this is very occasional, I prefer my monitors for mixing. For recording and live performances, I use in-ear headphones.
Headphones are mostly the thing of personal preference due to the fact that everyone’s ears is unique, but 600 series are really the golden standard for any serious audio work. For me personally, Audeze MM-500 sounded like slightly better and clearer version of HD650, so I mostly switched to them after a while, but still keep 650s for occasional checking.
Long term 650 user here. Spares support is also really useful. I also use some Grado 325s to help hear what’s in the bass. I know they are very peaky on the mids. I’ve wanted Stax for decades. I used to sell them and they fit me well. Having written it down I need to buck my ideas up and buy some!
Hey, I have no opinion on headphones this was very informative! And I really enjoyed the more laid back presentation, nothing against the “it’s a scam” tone but this style keeps me more engaged! Have a great day!
I was wondering: A closed box speaker is a resonator. In the headphones world to avoid having a resonant chamber you then go to open backs. Then why open baffle speakers are not used in studios?
@@Ricochetmex speakers are filled with fibreglass or similar material so they're not a resonator. The lower frequencies act mainly as a spring resisting the cone due to the box being magnitudes smaller than a wavelength. Ported speakers aren't as good as sealed ones due to faster bass falloff but also time domain issues. The port only stays working on the second wave so it'll smudge kicks at least and square waves get weird.
What about those old Sennheiser HD-250 linear? ( Original version not the HD 250- II ) They sounded amazing to me and kind of linear as they called them. I still have a pair from 32 years ago, but the pads are all gone, disintegrated and they don't make replacements any more
More then a decade ago I was anoyed about my bad headset. Finally I bought a Sennheiser PC 350. It is a closed system, that sounded very neutral to my ears. I really loved them, but some day they fell down and the left driver was damaged. Luckily you can get replacements for those. Yes, you can get a cheap headset for the 35€ I had to pay, but that headset clocked in at 130€ at that time. When the replacement reached me, I found out, it was a driver that was original used in the HD 500 series. That was their top of the line back in the days. I have no idea about their lineup of headsets today, but maybe it is worth to take a peek.
@@TimPower1 me too. Not using correction just references. I'm checking air windows's new cans . Nice bleeding/ambience thing. Makes the mono really in the center of your face. not forehead
Thanks for your video! have you tried the Hifiman Ananda Nano? (with Harman Curve) ? - i think they have quite amount of accuracy than Sennheiser 600 series - i have those too and the Sennheiser 490pro... ;) all the best!
Never owned a Hifiman. Have listened to binaural recordings though. Yes, Nano is subjective good value for money, meaning sub $1000. Compared to the Ananda and XS, Nano clearly has a more refined and flab-free treble. Bass also doesn't have that 'cheap toy' timbre.
Do you happen to have any knowledge on how to measure headphones "accurately"? I'd be curious how people measure them, because there are so many failure points when it comes to measuring small drivers that output low levels of sound, especially when you have to take into consideration the coupling to someone's head (everyone's head and auditory physiology is different - shape, size, resonances, etc.) Thanks for the vid. Really interesting.
love hd600 and jubilee 58x, i don't like the hd650 they make everything sound good. i heard the hifiman sundana nano planar are very good too smh. Returned my neumanns ndh30 as headphones were sounding different everytime you were placing them on your head because of their design was going from very good to muddy if i place them 1 mm in a different position when repositionnng on your head
I think most closed backs will never compete, but I own a pair of dca e3's and they're absolutely as good as any openback I've heard in any price range
I tried many many headphones and noticed that my mixes and masters translate best when mixed and mastered on AKG K240 Studio original made in Austria version headphones. They also reveal any mix mistakes and things that poke out. They’re better than many headphones that cost 5x more, they lack a bit of low end tho.
I have some Beyer Dynamic DT-880s I've had since the 1980s. I have no idea how accurate they are but I do know that when I have used them for mixing I can trust them. I use other headphones for casual listening because they sound nicer, but the DT-880s never make anything sound special that isn't.
Sticking with exactly same model through your career is the best headphone decision because your brain will know how every amazing music sounds and every bit of future music you listen to should sound.
This was really in depth. It's good to understand the reasoning behind the recommendations. Must say, I'm loving the mm-500s and they're improving my mixes. Be good to know what you think of you try them. With the HD600, do you recommend correction software (e.g. SoundID) or spatial emulations (e.g. Goodhertz's Can Openers)?
Lots of studio guys use and love the LCD-5. I believe there was an EQ meant for it and studio work. Rumor has it had studio work in mind although I'm not convinced that was it's sole purpose in life. LCD-4 is definitely more if a colored, bassy headphone more tuned for enjoyment, especially if you enjoy bass.
AKG 600 ohm 240 DFs are the ones I trust most but they are a little difficult to find, and the current 240s do not compare - for sure, a different group of engineers. They are the only ones that compare with my Etymotic Research ER 4S. They have a slightly more extended bandwidth and are much more convenient to use.
This is good advice and the Sennheiser 600 series is a good recommendation. However... While I agree that EQ can't turn bad headphones into great ones, EQ can be used to bring very good headphone much closer to perfect tonal balance. Given that fact I feel that the low end extension, general responsiveness, and low distortion of planar magnetic headphones, namely the Hifiman Sundara, after some corrective EQ, results in the best affordable solution for people looking to mix on headphones. Although it does require a decent headphone amplifier to sound its best. (assuming proper fit, of course)
agree. for a cheaper alternative i would also consider the semi-open back beyerdynamic DT 880s ... they are similar to the HD 600 series but can sometimes be found for less than the sennheiser
I personally can't stand HD25 for DJing. Uncomfortable, the on-ear design doesn't isolate sound well enough in the booth, and they just feel too flimsy for rough-and-tumble DJ environments. I love the way Sennheisers sound, though, and I really like my HD599 for casual listening when I'm lounging around. Good video, thanks for sharing.
I was excited about hearing your opinions on headphones, but sitting here with my HD650's, I wonder what I am missing. I often find them making stuff sound too good. Great for casual listening, but I find myself hearing problems later on other cheaper pairs (like gamer headphones, BT headphones, and the like). So I very often feel like I can't trust them. But I guess I just need to learn more and get a better feel of how they translate to consumer gear.
Hey man, love the video. Just one question for you: what are your thoughts on EQ'ing afterwards? I personally love the Harman curve (I know it's not necessary) and I find that dynamic headphones get distortion when making those EQ moves, whereas planar magnetic headphones are much less likely to distort. You also focused predominantly on frequency response (and I agree with your assessment), but soundstage is an important aspect of mixing as well. I think the more expensive headphones (at least the Audeze LCD2 and Hifiman Arya that I've tried) have much better soundstage than my HD650s, and much more similar to a decent speaker setup in a studio (obviously not perfectly, but closer). Just wanted to get a discussion going as I do believe there are other important considerations as well. Cheers man!
sounds stage / imaging isn't particularly important to me personally. EQ just increases thd as you point out. i agree planars can take it better. i just personally don't like eq in my monitoring chain
Your recommendation of the Sennheiser HD600 series made me chuckle as dealers here in Canada won't extend the warranty on them as they are highly returned and considered disposable.
Very interesting, I just replaced my ATH-M40fs headphones of over 10 years and after trying about 40 headphones in 3 days the Sennheiser HD400 series and HD600 series along with the Audio Technica ATH-R70X and ATH-AD2000X were in the conversation for open backs. Ended up buying the Audio Technica’s because going back to back comparison of many many headphones they were a nice middle ground in sound overall that didn’t feel colored, the R70X was on sale that week for 233 USD in Japan and I got the 2000X for about 180 USD used and the Tago Studios TG-01 for closed backs used. I am not an audiophile or a pro in audio - I just listen to a lot of music.
I have the HD 650, but I tend to prefer Beyerdynamic DT 900 Pro X. And speaking of Sony MDR7506, they can also work very well. IMHO, it depends on the person and getting used to the sound of the equipment. 25 years ago I actually mixed and mastered with some cheap earbuds (!) and today those old mixes don't sound too bad. I made a bunch of really bad mixes when I started to change my headphones a few years later, I tried different hi-fi and studio headphones. No matter how flat or uneven they are, you need to get used to ONE pair and stick with them, even if they have an uneven, non-flat frequency curve.
Dang. The good news/bad news that the pick is what I already use. Ok, no magic “get better solution” to purchase. Just keep developing and get back to work.
So the whole video he talks about having a bias for Sennheiser, then suggests sennheiser 600 series sounds the best. I'm not disagreeing that they are probably most suitable for studio work. I just found it kinda ironic.
I use my Sennheiser HD precalibrated by Sound ID with the flat target in linear phase , also with 50 % wet for several reasons. There is still a little boost around 1.2 kHz and 9 kHz. But the result with ( in theory ) it decreases the coloration for a maximum of 1.5 dB from 40Hz. Sound ID, even with precalibration, is not perfect.
That was an interesting take and wasn't expecting that bombshell :) I currently have both the HD660S and HD660S2. Was thinking to sell the OG 660S since getting the S2, but maybe I should hold on to it.
Ive been on quite a journey through headphones aswell and can agree with the recommendation here, but I would like to add another, Hifiman Ananda Stealth V2, its pretty hard to get hold of since the V3 has arrived but it is a great upgrade from the HD6 series. The Hifiman Sundara is also good, basically a planar HD600.
1)I wanted to comment about the OG Ananda to the OP, but i decided not to. I've only heard the OG Ananda via binaural recording. It seems to have a no-nonsense sound. 2)but still, in terms of more realistic treble timbre (much more fine without the flab), i find the Nano beats the OG Ananda. Again. I heard a binaural recording. 3)i have personally owned the OG Mr Speakers Aeon Flow Open and they do pass off as an HD600 doppelganger. 🔊
Very good video explaining why it's so difficult to make accurate headphones. If you ever get a chance to try the boxy Stax Lambda "earspeaker" models I think they actually sound more accurate than the higher-end round styles like the SR-007/009. Like with the other manufacturers, I think Stax's most neutral/accurate model might be in the middle of their price range (SR-L300 or SR-L500 MKⅡ + SRM-400s solid state amp). I don't find they have the bass variation/ head seal issue you mentioned with the SR-009. I'm using an older SR-303 with SRM-400s now. I also agree that the Sennheiser HD600 series is excellent, very accurate and a close 2nd behind the stax for me.
@APMastering I've read and watched many reviews on them. They always get compared to the HD6 series. That's why I asked your take on them. If you ever got to try them, I'd like to hear your thoughts on them - maybe a review.
The best Headphones/monitors are the ones that are "flat", you can rely on, trust, are comfortable and the ones KNOW in and out. The price point is more or less irrelevant.
I think the HD6XX is supposed to be a cheaper version of the HD650, no? But I have read elsewhere that there are slight differences between them, perhaps.
Isn't there a video from a few weeks ago where Andrew is using LCD-X now? All the produce like a pro guys seem to be at least working on them in some capacity now (paid or not).
Great video, very useful! Tho would’ve loved if you talked more about transient response, like in your recent speaker video, instead of focusing so hard on frequency response. I thought transient response was the reason people preferred planar magnetic over dynamic drivers.
Idk, i got the hd800s and with a little bit of eq nothing more than 2 to 3 db cuts/boosts here and there and these are some of the most neutral sounds cans ive owned. But I have owned a pair of hd600s and cant really say anything bad about it except the adhesive for cushion on the strap coming loose.
@APMastering in lay terms, higher impedence is better? I'm just wondering if it's a waste of money to buy 660s and continue using the output stage of say, a focusrite headphone amp? To make the purchase worthwhile and actually optimise the reference, isn't it necessary to buy a decent headphone amp?
Dishonest. Although I agree with a lot of it.. Slate VSX is not 'just adding some EQ and filters'.. That is like saying Guitar modeler's are just adding some EQ and filters. My expensive monitors (2 sets) just collect dust anymore, talk about worthless.. And my mixes have never been any better. This guy is full of beans in the aspect of ;just eq and filters' nonsense, For 50 years I preached against even thinking of mastering on phones. They changed all that over night.
TL/DR there is a reason that the HD600 series have been legendary in the audiophile (at least audiophiles that value accuracy) and recording circles for decades.
I had HD600, 650 and 6xx all at the same time. Hated that the pads age so quickly and change the sound for the worse. They're good, almost a keeper, but stock have too much energy in the 2-4 k region, not enough energy after that (I still think there's the famous "Sennheiser veil", even in latest revisions), not enough energy in sub bass and that can't be fixed even with EQ 'cause you will bring up distortion. Also, small driver and spacious pads: a lot of space for the ears to move around and that results in sweesh swoosh comb filtering variations in HF depending on position. That can be good and useful for tailoring the sound to individual HRTF, but you have to remember by touch the ideal position for you to replicate the perfect sound. Sold them all. In the end I settled for a Koss ESP 950. Stock they are meh, but EQed to a personalized Harman curve and with real leather pads (stocks one are a disgrace, like 7506. They come with a luxury real leather bag but cheap trash bag wrapped pads? Why???) they are a keeper in my experience. Bonus: lifetime warranty. Comparing curves I figured out even the HE 1 might need some EQ so... I'm good. No perfect headphones stock, no problem. Also in use: HD25, Etymotic ER4B and ER4SR (EQed), M50x, Denon AH D2000 and E-MU TEAK (very similar, both Fostex projects, both with Dekoni pads) for when I need isolation & practicality.
The Harman curve isn't perfect so using it as a reference isn't ideal. In my experience the HE-1 tuning is better than Harman, when I equalize my Sundaras to match either. Harman has too much bass shelf to be natural. Diffuse field -1dB/Oct is much more in line with how anechoic flat speakers sound in a real room applied to headphones.
@mikafoxx2717 yep, I use It as a base (I wrote personalized) but I also find it has too much bass, especially for in ear, and not enough highs. I also use a tone generator to sweep all across to balance volume and to tailor resonances and nulls In the highs from 4-5 k and up, where there's the most variability from person to person. With a driver so close to the pinnae it's inevitable to have a great variation from person to person. The smaller the driver, the more it approximate point source; the bigger it is, the more it approximate a flat wavefront or a line array.
i don't agree with senn veil, just sounds like propaganda from a competitor. i with with other comment that harman is not holy. glad you got something you like though. worn pads increase bass due to proximity effect
@APMastering well, it lacks 1 or 2 dB of hi shelf IMO (and it's also visible in some measurements), that's the veil for me. It's not a marketing term from competitors, it's an expression born years ago on the head-fi forum and it's been debated a lot so it's in the realm of personal preference, not a 5 or 10 dB deal, not even 3. I can't stand beyer highs, just 2 dB more for the 650 and I'm happy. I also don't consider Harman curve the be all end all, I use it as a base to not EQ from scratch and as a reference when speaking: it's not free field (most beyers), it's not diffuse field (most senns), in the end it's kinda a diffuse field with low shelf. There's a pdf from solderdude with a lot of measurements on the 650 and pad ageing: it gets darker also. It's visible also in the graphs from crinacle.
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in the age where youtubers are too afraid to lose their "sponsers" by actually giving bad reviews to certain products, I fkin love ur balls for ACTUALLY sayin what is good and bad (with reasons). I love this video and I subbed immediately.
thanks!
@APMastering Carrying the torch for Ethan 🔥
Also subbed :)
He pisses of so many people and gets bad rap from them i guess those people are actually from the brand themselves :D
For those in a hurry, HD600/650/660s are the only headphones recommended in the video.
XD
Good. The 650's are what I own.
But it appears that the youtuber prefers the hd660s the most amongst those
Thank you. The video is extremely long for no reason ...
As they should be. I have the Focal Elex, they're leagues ahead of any 600 series, but I'd still rather mix on a pair of 650s that are corrected with Sonarworks.
12 minutes into a 16 minute video and I'm still waiting for him to stop telling me what he doesn't recommend.
@paperclipsquash yeah...I'm like, "What the heck, what would satisfy your hearing, dude!!!"
Went down a similar rabbit hole myself. Ended up just buying a new set of earpads for my HD600s, happy days
ha ha exactly!
tru
The HD600's aren't perfect, but beyond the light bass, they're quite good when the ear pads aren't worn out. When they are, it's almost like listening to just mids when you compare to a speaker. It's not just mids, but they definitely stick out a lot. My favorite are the Sundara's with the 2020 pad revision for their extra technical performance, decent mids but extended bass and treble. Sounds flatter than the 600's but very slightly less mids ~1.5khz. mild EQ around there and the bass helps a lot and the lie distortion makes it have no effect on technical performance. Most studio headphones are a rip-off though, the 600's are about the best that get recommended for that use, besides maybe the MM-500 but I've never heard that one.
I prefer my LCD-X's to my HD650's by a mile, personally, for mixing - along with sonarworks reference.
New as in from the OEM, or 3rd party? Me personally, I did not like their velours, so I found a fancy fenestrated suede pad that was close to vanilla tuning.
I was a Sennheiser guy for over ten years, but after getting tired of replacing pads every year (especially now that the quality seemed to have dropped), I bought a FiiO FT3 and I haven't looked back. I think any headphones are fair for mixing if you know what you are doing and most importantly, you understand how music translates in it. For me, the biggest mistake of mixing with headphones is not using your headphones. It's so much harder to mix with headphones if you only put them on to mix, or if you use them all the time but you enable a specific software or curve to make them sound "studio ready" when mixing. Usually when I mix with headphones, I'm not looking for accuracy, but for familiarity. I want my mixes to sound like the music I listen to, and that works fine for me.
That makes a lot of sense cheers.
100% agreed. The headphones you're familiar to, as long as they're not crappy 30€ stuff, will do better that high-end material you're not familiar to.
I agree, also I feel like nothing compares to listening to recordings you admire on multiple systems, and of course your own gear. I feel like I can get a good mix on any reasonable set up as long as I reference some top notch recordings on it first.
I have the HD600/HD660s and replaced the pads on both sets with ZMF pads. They’re amazing and likely won’t have to be replaced anytime in the near future
@@MikeTaffet That's good to know, thanks. Last one I got directly from Sennheiser didn't last a year before they unglued and started showing the insides of the pads.
Paid course on making your own headphones when?
i think paid courses are great. you can really go into detail and produce a decent product because you are compensated for your time. people who put up loads of free content without getting paid in any way are either ego driven narcissists or hobbyists whos information is certainly not great. no, by far the best is getting info from a pro whos getting financially rewarded for making a good learning product
@APMastering I've experienced work with hobbyists that made my work sound better than pros. The reason was that the hobbyists was 100% in the music style where the pro was more generalist.
DMS already beat AP to the chase with that one >
@APMastering that's quite the broad assumption. I'm sure there are plenty examples in history to prove you wrong.
pro means you do it as your day job not that you specialise on everything. if you sent me a very specific kind of american country album, i'd do it if you wanted me, but i'd tell you up front that's not my speciality. id hope someone absolutely obsessed with country would do a better job than me. but no hobbyists are beating me consistently in techno for example
Audio-Technica ATH-R70X in case you prefer warmer character than Sennheiser offers
I have to be honest, regardless of its relatively cheap quality, the VSX headphones with the software is something different. I don’t even care what it is, but I’m telling you it works for me. 👍🏻👍🏻
glad you get use from it
Watching this video wearing HD600 lol
Bought them 10 years ago, since then broke the cable 3 times, changed worn out ear pads, but the cans themselves sound amazing till this day.
The 600's are basically forever headphones. I keep them despite having fancier ones, because I know they'll last. The Sundara I think are just a little better and flatter and definitely more technical.
Nice and I was watching it wearing my HD660S2 via my FIIO K19 over balanced connection.
@@theexpatgunner I've not heard the 660s2 but it's a funky in between, they get slightly recessed mids more in line with most other headphones in order to get more bass impact and treble in relativity. Plus more detail capable drivers. It's not a 600 or 650 but it's not hugely far off as most headphones are in comparison. Maybe even the Sundara would be closer to the 660s tuning wise. Idk.
I didn't think any phones could surpass my HD600 and HD650s but my Audeze MM-500 retired them full stop and I never looked back.
never heard mm500
They not that good ong
Same deal with my Sundara, especially with a little EQ. Much more detail and better tuning in either end, the 600's are quite mid focused which is the most important part to get right, but you can't really judge bass on them or sparkle up top.
I use the MM-500 too. I sent them off to Sonarworks to get them measured, and mainly use the plugin to fix the small left / right imbalance
@@mikafoxx2717 Sundara's are reaaaaaally good for the price.
Slate VSX is a different animal, you cannot simply put them on and judge them. It took me about a week for my ears to adapt to them because in the beginning, all I heard was Phase. Like a good room, these also have their own place for learning the soundstage. For me, I never heard anything like these. You feel like the bass is around you and not only in your head.
he missed the point of them. it's not for emulate higher quality headphone that people buy them. it's for crossfade
@@aether3395Never meant to be so cold??
@@aether3395 Don't you mean crosstalk?
@@hearmenow909 yes , I dont know why I've write crossfade
I suspect y'all are talking about the 'phantom image' that a stereo speaker set gives you in the centre of the sound stage. I totally agree. I use VSX for mixing now; and I'm not comparing them to the experience of mixing in the studio with ATC's of a few months back, but mixing on old (big) passive JBL's or Tannoys and even NS10's (with tissue paper) for near field (which I loathed). That JBL sound was something I got used to, and learnt to love, because it was consistent when I played my reference mixes on them. That's where I am with VSX... because of the phantom centre imaging and the detail that's at least as good as all the JBL's (referred to by competitors as Junk, But Loud, back in. the day) I grew accustomed to (we were coming off analog 8-16 track tape remember!) I can 'trust' VSX to mix on, especially with probably 1000 hours and counting of listening to reference mixes, some of which was performed, engineered, recorded, mixed or produced by me. I'll also add that I have NEVER 'mastered' my own tracks, and in fact use specific engineers for specific genres, often based on their discography, as heard by me, in a studio, now via VSX, as a reference. Mastering and engineering/mixing (and producing) are different beasts, and the most renowned exponents of each are specialists. Even Andy Wallace DOESN'T MASTER HIS OWN STUFF. A mastering suite and a recording/mixing studio are different beasts too, and I'd never suggest mastering via VSX, UNLESS THAT'S ALL I HAD. But, I'd much prefer to record as dry as possible, 'mix into my console/busses' to get as close as possible, then let a mastering engineer add the fairy dust on top... with the target media/audience in mind as well.
Everyone keep in mind: This is only from perspective of a Mastering engineer. Ultimately one has to really learn their mixing reference, and know where it is hyped or deficient.
PS: oh btw, ANY headphone (except maybe in-ears) will be significantly position-dependent. There again, one needs to learn where it feels consistently like it's sitting right, and sounding the way you recognize.
But i do agree the Sennheisers are nice 👍
What about the new Sennheiser HD 490 ?
Yeah, he should've checked it out if it passes. Senn markets it as such.
yes, these are getting top rating now and their in the same price range of the 650.
expensive, overrated, not pro at all, frequency response is all over the place
Generally it is clearer than HD600 but at the same time it can be also muddier. For example bass extends further, drums sound more natural, deeper, but less lively, less punchy than on HD600. For example acoustic guitar bass strings sound thick/middy as they should but they lack the sound of fresh strings or natural guitar string noise, on HD600 the guitar sounds brighter, very close to original and HD560s first version brings out the fresh strings "zing" too much. (but it is revealing)
female vocals, singers like Adele sound sharp or almost distorted sometimes, but it is only certain range of frequency, other singers may actually sound darker than on 600
Improved 490 PRO would be great, but currently it is a weird headphone
HD600 is not perfect either, for electronic music it sucks as it everything is "blurred", 490 is much tigher/clearer-thick sounding, while 560s is tight-thin
but I understand if you do a mix on 600 then it will sound exciting on everything else lol
So the advantages are: big sound stage, imho bigger than 560s, very nice low-mids, detailed
disadvantages: too heavy/thick sounding, less punch/impact than 560s/490, mids/treble are weird, can be both darker and brighter depending on a song... simply less predictable
I would say this, frequency wise 490 are closer to 600 compared to 560s, they are full/thick sounding. But despite of their brightness, I found 560s to be more consistent and more natural sounding (natural, but thin/bright, it is hard to explain). So for some vocals HD600/560s sounded fine (560s thin/bright) but 490 started to sound too textured/harsh.
But it also depends what one needs, do you need something which is revealing some small details or problems quickly etc or something which sounds closer to other systems to see how it may translate.
@@alseick that is the thing, people have argued that the timbre of instruments on the HD600 in the midrange has not really been matched
@@chungang7037 and I agree, even though have returned HD600 because I prefer tighter sounding headphones like 560s or 490, and I am not a pro. But it is my preference and 600 was the closest to real life in terms of mids, except it is too smooth for my needs, but the timbre/overall details/texture is just right for "natural" music. so +1 for HD600 😄
I actually agree with this guy's opinion on almost everything he says regarding audio. He records his video with a potato, however, and that really causes my chi to become misaligned. It's also hilarious that he talks about expensive monitors and headphones and records himself speaking with a crappy iPhone microphone. :)
I think that's a microphone he built made to look like an iPhone. 😝
sounds fine though
i totally understand the irony of a mastering engineer with a potato. higher quality video set up coming soon!!
The MEMS devices in most phones now days are fairly high performance compared to the typical electrete mic most would unknowingly use. There are a surprising number of mics out there that, despite the fancy packaging and the lofty performance claims are nothing more than a basic electrete element at the front.
Personally I like that old school RUclips vibe. Makes it feel more sincere somehow, like from back in the day before sponsors and all that.
Not that you need them, but you should try the Avantones Planars, one of the most neutral planar magnetic headphones out there, also not expensive for a planar headphone.
Edit: I have an HD6xx and the Avantone has a similar fequency response, but with all the benefits of the planar driver.
that interests me a lot
thx, will check them out
In the market for the Avantones too, currently on HD650s... Any quality issues with the Planars?
The only downside of it are the pads once they broken no replacment available. With eq they are very good ones i love them
this also interests me
The HD560s seem to come pretty close for under half the price. Have you tried those. Great vid! I guessed your pick last week.
I think for measuring accuracy you would need to have a set of audio listening tasks, like matching an audio signal with an eq version of it, or to drop in a mix of sine waves and slightly distorted version of them in random order to see if you can hear the difference and then give it some points.
yes i like these "prove it then" kinds of tests!!
Fascinating video, thank you. What do you think of the lower end Austrian Audio headphones? The x65 at 600$ is interesting, but I wonder if it might qualify for your category of "too revealing or too detailed" for monitoring. I could see how being too detailed especially could end up being distracting, especially if it is revealing issues in the recording that only .005% of people will hear when they wear over engineered audiophile headphones.
only heard the composer. is good but didn't fit my head
I went out and bought over 20 headphones to test for mixing...the ones that were the most comfortable and got the best results were the Shure SRH1840 Headphones..test them out when you get a chance they are amazing! I had the Sennhesser 650 even though they are great for listening and relaxing they were a bit too "veiled" for mixing...the mixes would come back too bright.
@@erikbabineau4509 maybe with the 650 but not 660S or 600. i bought the shure ones but didn't like them at all
9:07 Andrew ditched his Sonys for Audeze’s. Edit : I think he spoke on their forum that he mainly uses them for referencing
Every mix I have made on my JBL LSR305 have been filled with issues, my best mixes have been on my HD600’s it’s a huge difference.
"The more money you spend, the less accurate they are for studio use" ---AMEN!
This^ i have a pyle speaker that comes with a microphone and everything and can be bluetooth or aux and its like the cheapest low quality speaker i have but its been named the "speaker of truth" cause i have the volume marked to stay in the same place forever and i test every mix on it to try and get it as loud as it can without crumbling as alot of my favorite tracks that i use as a reference are right at the point that would start distorting if i turned it up any further. I think everyone needs a cheap mono speaker or atleast learn how to set your device to play mono only so u dont have anything only working cause it panned enough then phase cancel out or just not sound right on mono speaker
You need to try the Audio Technica ATH-R70x's. They're the "alternative" to the HD600's. Personally, they have sat on my head for hours on end and they're incredibly light and the "headband" (or lack thereof) is fantastic for any shaped cranium. I've used them for 2.5 years now and they're fantastic, even great for FPS gaming as the imaging is incredibly detailed.
ATH-ad1000 /1000x/2000/2000x are much better.
it isn't more important to be used to the monitoring system you have instead of trying to find the flatest one? If you know how good mixes sound in your system that's good enough, right?
Fantastic. I am a very amateur music maker and I have a set of beyerdynamic dt 770 pro headphones which I love. They are closed back and the reason I like them is because I can record with my mic and not pick up any leakage. Obviously in a professional situation where you are just monitoring the artist open backs are fine if you are isolated but if like me you are the artist,the sound engineer, the tea boy and all the other jobs then Closed back are what I need. Good video and it's nice to hear an honest set of opinions that aren't influenced by sponsored products.
I use Beyerdynamic DT 990 250 ohm, but this is very occasional, I prefer my monitors for mixing.
For recording and live performances, I use in-ear headphones.
glad to see someone mention Beyerdynamic at least! DT 700 pro X here
What do you think about the new sennheiser HD 490 pro?
@@Dr.reese_UBR3 need to hear them
Headphones are mostly the thing of personal preference due to the fact that everyone’s ears is unique, but 600 series are really the golden standard for any serious audio work. For me personally, Audeze MM-500 sounded like slightly better and clearer version of HD650, so I mostly switched to them after a while, but still keep 650s for occasional checking.
Long term 650 user here. Spares support is also really useful. I also use some Grado 325s to help hear what’s in the bass. I know they are very peaky on the mids. I’ve wanted Stax for decades. I used to sell them and they fit me well. Having written it down I need to buck my ideas up and buy some!
Hey, I have no opinion on headphones this was very informative! And I really enjoyed the more laid back presentation, nothing against the “it’s a scam” tone but this style keeps me more engaged! Have a great day!
thanks
How about Austrian audio Hi-X series? Sound is very clear with low distortion and good dynamic range for studio monitoring on my oppinion.
One question still comes up: everyone´s ears are different, so even with good headphones we end up with slightly different frequency response?
I was wondering: A closed box speaker is a resonator. In the headphones world to avoid having a resonant chamber you then go to open backs. Then why open baffle speakers are not used in studios?
@@Ricochetmex speakers are filled with fibreglass or similar material so they're not a resonator. The lower frequencies act mainly as a spring resisting the cone due to the box being magnitudes smaller than a wavelength. Ported speakers aren't as good as sealed ones due to faster bass falloff but also time domain issues. The port only stays working on the second wave so it'll smudge kicks at least and square waves get weird.
also there are open baffle speakers but they suck because room reflections. open backs are quiet so don't suffer the same issue
What about those old Sennheiser HD-250 linear? ( Original version not the HD 250- II ) They sounded amazing to me and kind of linear as they called them. I still have a pair from 32 years ago, but the pads are all gone, disintegrated and they don't make replacements any more
More then a decade ago I was anoyed about my bad headset. Finally I bought a Sennheiser PC 350. It is a closed system, that sounded very neutral to my ears. I really loved them, but some day they fell down and the left driver was damaged. Luckily you can get replacements for those. Yes, you can get a cheap headset for the 35€ I had to pay, but that headset clocked in at 130€ at that time. When the replacement reached me, I found out, it was a driver that was original used in the HD 500 series. That was their top of the line back in the days. I have no idea about their lineup of headsets today, but maybe it is worth to take a peek.
I use Beyerdynamic DT 1990 Pro with frequency correction (eq) and crossfeed (CanOpener). Works well for me.
@@TimPower1 me too. Not using correction just references. I'm checking air windows's new cans . Nice bleeding/ambience thing. Makes the mono really in the center of your face. not forehead
Thanks for your video! have you tried the Hifiman Ananda Nano? (with Harman Curve) ? - i think they have quite amount of accuracy than Sennheiser 600 series - i have those too and the Sennheiser 490pro... ;) all the best!
Never owned a Hifiman. Have listened to binaural recordings though. Yes, Nano is subjective good value for money, meaning sub $1000. Compared to the Ananda and XS, Nano clearly has a more refined and flab-free treble. Bass also doesn't have that 'cheap toy' timbre.
Surprised the Neumann NDH30 didn't get a mention... I have a pair... love em to bits for working on.
Do you happen to have any knowledge on how to measure headphones "accurately"? I'd be curious how people measure them, because there are so many failure points when it comes to measuring small drivers that output low levels of sound, especially when you have to take into consideration the coupling to someone's head (everyone's head and auditory physiology is different - shape, size, resonances, etc.)
Thanks for the vid. Really interesting.
Wonder how much things would be if we couldn’t return them?
@@djkillachris the price would have to come down i guess
love hd600 and jubilee 58x, i don't like the hd650 they make everything sound good. i heard the hifiman sundana nano planar are very good too smh. Returned my neumanns ndh30 as headphones were sounding different everytime you were placing them on your head because of their design was going from very good to muddy if i place them 1 mm in a different position when repositionnng on your head
Thank you - I've been waiting for this one. Wish you started uploading a year ago and look forward to what you make next.
I think most closed backs will never compete, but I own a pair of dca e3's and they're absolutely as good as any openback I've heard in any price range
I tried many many headphones and noticed that my mixes and masters translate best when mixed and mastered on AKG K240 Studio original made in Austria version headphones. They also reveal any mix mistakes and things that poke out. They’re better than many headphones that cost 5x more, they lack a bit of low end tho.
They’re classic for a reason. Have used them forever.
I have some Beyer Dynamic DT-880s I've had since the 1980s. I have no idea how accurate they are but I do know that when I have used them for mixing I can trust them. I use other headphones for casual listening because they sound nicer, but the DT-880s never make anything sound special that isn't.
Knowing your monitoring well is more useful than having absolutely flat monitoring, IMO.
Sticking with exactly same model through your career is the best headphone decision because your brain will know how every amazing music sounds and every bit of future music you listen to should sound.
This was really in depth. It's good to understand the reasoning behind the recommendations. Must say, I'm loving the mm-500s and they're improving my mixes. Be good to know what you think of you try them.
With the HD600, do you recommend correction software (e.g. SoundID) or spatial emulations (e.g. Goodhertz's Can Openers)?
Lots of studio guys use and love the LCD-5. I believe there was an EQ meant for it and studio work. Rumor has it had studio work in mind although I'm not convinced that was it's sole purpose in life.
LCD-4 is definitely more if a colored, bassy headphone more tuned for enjoyment, especially if you enjoy bass.
AKG 600 ohm 240 DFs are the ones I trust most but they are a little difficult to find, and the current 240s do not compare - for sure, a different group of engineers. They are the only ones that compare with my Etymotic Research ER 4S. They have a slightly more extended bandwidth and are much more convenient to use.
This is good advice and the Sennheiser 600 series is a good recommendation. However...
While I agree that EQ can't turn bad headphones into great ones, EQ can be used to bring very good headphone much closer to perfect tonal balance. Given that fact I feel that the low end extension, general responsiveness, and low distortion of planar magnetic headphones, namely the Hifiman Sundara, after some corrective EQ, results in the best affordable solution for people looking to mix on headphones. Although it does require a decent headphone amplifier to sound its best.
(assuming proper fit, of course)
agree. for a cheaper alternative i would also consider the semi-open back beyerdynamic DT 880s ... they are similar to the HD 600 series but can sometimes be found for less than the sennheiser
I love my HD600. It improved my mixings years ago when I bought it.
I personally can't stand HD25 for DJing. Uncomfortable, the on-ear design doesn't isolate sound well enough in the booth, and they just feel too flimsy for rough-and-tumble DJ environments. I love the way Sennheisers sound, though, and I really like my HD599 for casual listening when I'm lounging around. Good video, thanks for sharing.
have you tried the 560s ? i find them more accurate than the 600 series.
Major respect for stating an unbiased opinion. I personally find the HD600 series too warm and narrow but I am using them just for listening.
I was excited about hearing your opinions on headphones, but sitting here with my HD650's, I wonder what I am missing. I often find them making stuff sound too good. Great for casual listening, but I find myself hearing problems later on other cheaper pairs (like gamer headphones, BT headphones, and the like). So I very often feel like I can't trust them. But I guess I just need to learn more and get a better feel of how they translate to consumer gear.
Hey man, love the video. Just one question for you: what are your thoughts on EQ'ing afterwards? I personally love the Harman curve (I know it's not necessary) and I find that dynamic headphones get distortion when making those EQ moves, whereas planar magnetic headphones are much less likely to distort. You also focused predominantly on frequency response (and I agree with your assessment), but soundstage is an important aspect of mixing as well. I think the more expensive headphones (at least the Audeze LCD2 and Hifiman Arya that I've tried) have much better soundstage than my HD650s, and much more similar to a decent speaker setup in a studio (obviously not perfectly, but closer). Just wanted to get a discussion going as I do believe there are other important considerations as well. Cheers man!
sounds stage / imaging isn't particularly important to me personally. EQ just increases thd as you point out. i agree planars can take it better. i just personally don't like eq in my monitoring chain
The HD600 is my long time favorite. Recently added the Dan Clark E3 and it's a vented closed back it works great as studio headphones.
Daaaang Dan Clarks? You bossin out bro
@@j-station Had to sell my XRP coins 😉
@@martijn_thatsme Been eying the DC Expanse for a year or more now
The expanse is dogshit
@@CammyFi Is it really? How come? You got try a pair? Seems like it would be great. Tell me more please!
Your recommendation of the Sennheiser HD600 series made me chuckle as dealers here in Canada won't extend the warranty on them as they are highly returned and considered disposable.
Disposable? They are the most legendary headphones for studio use for a reason. You're tripping.
Love my 650s and been releasing music around the world since 1995
They are the best and I own too much audio gear for a mere hobbyist. They bring the soul to every bit of music I throw at it.
Very interesting, I just replaced my ATH-M40fs headphones of over 10 years and after trying about 40 headphones in 3 days the Sennheiser HD400 series and HD600 series along with the Audio Technica ATH-R70X and ATH-AD2000X were in the conversation for open backs. Ended up buying the Audio Technica’s because going back to back comparison of many many headphones they were a nice middle ground in sound overall that didn’t feel colored, the R70X was on sale that week for 233 USD in Japan and I got the 2000X for about 180 USD used and the Tago Studios TG-01 for closed backs used. I am not an audiophile or a pro in audio - I just listen to a lot of music.
I have the HD 650, but I tend to prefer Beyerdynamic DT 900 Pro X. And speaking of Sony MDR7506, they can also work very well. IMHO, it depends on the person and getting used to the sound of the equipment. 25 years ago I actually mixed and mastered with some cheap earbuds (!) and today those old mixes don't sound too bad. I made a bunch of really bad mixes when I started to change my headphones a few years later, I tried different hi-fi and studio headphones. No matter how flat or uneven they are, you need to get used to ONE pair and stick with them, even if they have an uneven, non-flat frequency curve.
can’t find any 660s for sale; what would be the next choice?
I would be curious what you think about the Neumann NDH30
Dang. The good news/bad news that the pick is what I already use. Ok, no magic “get better solution” to purchase. Just keep developing and get back to work.
So the whole video he talks about having a bias for Sennheiser, then suggests sennheiser 600 series sounds the best. I'm not disagreeing that they are probably most suitable for studio work. I just found it kinda ironic.
What do you think of the aune's? I saw them in the background
I use my Sennheiser HD precalibrated by Sound ID with the flat target in linear phase , also with 50 % wet for several reasons. There is still a little boost around 1.2 kHz and 9 kHz. But the result with ( in theory ) it decreases the coloration for a maximum of 1.5 dB from 40Hz. Sound ID, even with precalibration, is not perfect.
Linear phase shouldn't be used for headphones correction in general, but maybe it works in your case in this specific setting
I have heard some good reviews for the bass response on the hifiman ananda nano. But never heard them myself
That was an interesting take and wasn't expecting that bombshell :) I currently have both the HD660S and HD660S2. Was thinking to sell the OG 660S since getting the S2, but maybe I should hold on to it.
ah yeah the good old diy audio heaven freq response curve check for hours only to end up buying what everyone recommends - the 600 ´s
Ive been on quite a journey through headphones aswell and can agree with the recommendation here, but I would like to add another, Hifiman Ananda Stealth V2, its pretty hard to get hold of since the V3 has arrived but it is a great upgrade from the HD6 series. The Hifiman Sundara is also good, basically a planar HD600.
1)I wanted to comment about the OG Ananda to the OP, but i decided not to. I've only heard the OG Ananda via binaural recording. It seems to have a no-nonsense sound. 2)but still, in terms of more realistic treble timbre (much more fine without the flab), i find the Nano beats the OG Ananda. Again. I heard a binaural recording. 3)i have personally owned the OG Mr Speakers Aeon Flow Open and they do pass off as an HD600 doppelganger. 🔊
Very good video explaining why it's so difficult to make accurate headphones. If you ever get a chance to try the boxy Stax Lambda "earspeaker" models I think they actually sound more accurate than the higher-end round styles like the SR-007/009. Like with the other manufacturers, I think Stax's most neutral/accurate model might be in the middle of their price range (SR-L300 or SR-L500 MKⅡ + SRM-400s solid state amp). I don't find they have the bass variation/ head seal issue you mentioned with the SR-009. I'm using an older SR-303 with SRM-400s now. I also agree that the Sennheiser HD600 series is excellent, very accurate and a close 2nd behind the stax for me.
In the beginning of the video, I spotted Aune AR5000. How do you find it for studio use compared to HD6 series?
that's not my living room, it's a showroom and i didn't listen to everything there including those
@APMastering I've read and watched many reviews on them. They always get compared to the HD6 series. That's why I asked your take on them. If you ever got to try them, I'd like to hear your thoughts on them - maybe a review.
Pro Tip: Pair the Sennheiser HD600/660s with the ZMF pads. Match made in heaven
The best Headphones/monitors are the ones that are "flat", you can rely on, trust, are comfortable and the ones KNOW in and out. The price point is more or less irrelevant.
Do you think there’s significant benefit for the 660s vs 600? Or more a matter of taste at that point?
they are both great
600 is more natural
660s is darker with strange highs
What do you guys think about HD6XX vs the recommendation?
I think the HD6XX is supposed to be a cheaper version of the HD650, no? But I have read elsewhere that there are slight differences between them, perhaps.
I've got a pair of HD 595 downstairs, are they gonna be better than the MDR-7506 that I'm currently using? 595 seems awfully close to 600 :)
You wanna hear what you mixed on hd600/650, though eqed weird try hd700 to see the instruments and 3d stage.
I don't know if you intended this video to be as funny as I'm finding it. I'm very much enjoying and also laughing
What do you think of the HD490?
Isn't there a video from a few weeks ago where Andrew is using LCD-X now? All the produce like a pro guys seem to be at least working on them in some capacity now (paid or not).
I love my AKG K712 pros. While they might not be "accurate" they are great for mixing.
Whre did the end of the video go?
Curious what you think about the shure srh840a. These have been my favorite of over 30 pairs tested.
Great video, very useful!
Tho would’ve loved if you talked more about transient response, like in your recent speaker video, instead of focusing so hard on frequency response.
I thought transient response was the reason people preferred planar magnetic over dynamic drivers.
What has your experience with the Etymotic in ears been, like an ER4 or ER4SR?
What pads do you recommend for the HD 600 series headphones?
Idk, i got the hd800s and with a little bit of eq nothing more than 2 to 3 db cuts/boosts here and there and these are some of the most neutral sounds cans ive owned. But I have owned a pair of hd600s and cant really say anything bad about it except the adhesive for cushion on the strap coming loose.
i prefer no eq not i agree 800s are good with eq
have you had any experience with the hd 490 pro?
I use Ollo S4X I find them great for mixing vocals. Would love to know your opinion on them.
Is it not worth mentioning headphones in relation to a headphone amp and its output power? Not being snarky. Just interested in your opinion
no, any decent amp will do. The main factor in amps is output impedance IMHO.
@APMastering in lay terms, higher impedence is better? I'm just wondering if it's a waste of money to buy 660s and continue using the output stage of say, a focusrite headphone amp? To make the purchase worthwhile and actually optimise the reference, isn't it necessary to buy a decent headphone amp?
Do the 6xx fit into this category as well?
Would love to hear your take on Ollo Audio SX-series. I imagine they would be on par with HD-series
Every mix I have made on my JBL LSR305 have been filled with issues, my best mixes have been on my HD600’s its a huge difference.
I'm trying to make the call between new model DT 1990 PRO mk2 vs HD660S
All Sennheisers I had myself or bought for people broke at the same spot - the headbacnd bear the earcup. Do they last more nowdays?
i've never broke a pair and i've had many pairs over the years
I have a 30 year old pair that are fine
Dishonest. Although I agree with a lot of it.. Slate VSX is not 'just adding some EQ and filters'.. That is like saying Guitar modeler's are just adding some EQ and filters. My expensive monitors (2 sets) just collect dust anymore, talk about worthless.. And my mixes have never been any better. This guy is full of beans in the aspect of ;just eq and filters' nonsense, For 50 years I preached against even thinking of mastering on phones. They changed all that over night.
TL/DR there is a reason that the HD600 series have been legendary in the audiophile (at least audiophiles that value accuracy) and recording circles for decades.
I had HD600, 650 and 6xx all at the same time. Hated that the pads age so quickly and change the sound for the worse. They're good, almost a keeper, but stock have too much energy in the 2-4 k region, not enough energy after that (I still think there's the famous "Sennheiser veil", even in latest revisions), not enough energy in sub bass and that can't be fixed even with EQ 'cause you will bring up distortion. Also, small driver and spacious pads: a lot of space for the ears to move around and that results in sweesh swoosh comb filtering variations in HF depending on position. That can be good and useful for tailoring the sound to individual HRTF, but you have to remember by touch the ideal position for you to replicate the perfect sound. Sold them all.
In the end I settled for a Koss ESP 950. Stock they are meh, but EQed to a personalized Harman curve and with real leather pads (stocks one are a disgrace, like 7506. They come with a luxury real leather bag but cheap trash bag wrapped pads? Why???) they are a keeper in my experience. Bonus: lifetime warranty. Comparing curves I figured out even the HE 1 might need some EQ so... I'm good. No perfect headphones stock, no problem.
Also in use: HD25, Etymotic ER4B and ER4SR (EQed), M50x, Denon AH D2000 and E-MU TEAK (very similar, both Fostex projects, both with Dekoni pads) for when I need isolation & practicality.
The Harman curve isn't perfect so using it as a reference isn't ideal. In my experience the HE-1 tuning is better than Harman, when I equalize my Sundaras to match either. Harman has too much bass shelf to be natural. Diffuse field -1dB/Oct is much more in line with how anechoic flat speakers sound in a real room applied to headphones.
@mikafoxx2717 yep, I use It as a base (I wrote personalized) but I also find it has too much bass, especially for in ear, and not enough highs. I also use a tone generator to sweep all across to balance volume and to tailor resonances and nulls In the highs from 4-5 k and up, where there's the most variability from person to person. With a driver so close to the pinnae it's inevitable to have a great variation from person to person. The smaller the driver, the more it approximate point source; the bigger it is, the more it approximate a flat wavefront or a line array.
i don't agree with senn veil, just sounds like propaganda from a competitor. i with with other comment that harman is not holy. glad you got something you like though. worn pads increase bass due to proximity effect
@APMastering well, it lacks 1 or 2 dB of hi shelf IMO (and it's also visible in some measurements), that's the veil for me. It's not a marketing term from competitors, it's an expression born years ago on the head-fi forum and it's been debated a lot so it's in the realm of personal preference, not a 5 or 10 dB deal, not even 3. I can't stand beyer highs, just 2 dB more for the 650 and I'm happy.
I also don't consider Harman curve the be all end all, I use it as a base to not EQ from scratch and as a reference when speaking: it's not free field (most beyers), it's not diffuse field (most senns), in the end it's kinda a diffuse field with low shelf.
There's a pdf from solderdude with a lot of measurements on the 650 and pad ageing: it gets darker also. It's visible also in the graphs from crinacle.