Full podcast episode: ruclips.net/video/1X_KdkoGxSs/видео.html Lex Fridman podcast channel: ruclips.net/user/lexfridman Guest bio: Norman Finkelstein and Benny Morris are historians. Mouin Rabbani is a Middle East analyst. Steven Bonnell (aka Destiny) is a political livestreamer.
youre sick for monetizing this type of content while innocent people and children are being starved and killed in Palestine. there is no debate and youre beyond wrong for platforming this as such.
Isn't allowing people to damn themselves on a public platform essentially a net positive? Idk why you'd be salty that Lex takes some $ home as a result of his making it available.
Im supposed to take a college dropout seriously? Who uses wikipedia as a source? Who debates on discord ? And Interrupts? Gtfo theres 3 scholars and 1 idiot.
Lmao destiny is a college drop out who thinks he is qualified for this debate after reading wikipedia 😂😂😂 lex fridman you really showed your bias after years of watching your content I have unsubscribed do not tell me that killing over 20,000 children is a moral and military accurate precision target with a straight face. I can tell you right now that same exact straight face lie was said by hitler himself.
@@HostileTakeover555I would give OP the benefit of the doubt here, I think it's funny to see D-man who didn't know jack about this topic 5 months ago being so quick on his feet to dunk on the supposed most fampus pro palestine academic currently.
This is the infuriating part. These Zionist defenders hear them bragging like we do but love playing dumb. They're not there in good faith. The goal is to make people doubt the facts and truth.
Idf: There are no accidents Mr Borelli: That's just an accident! Destiny sounds like one of those kids defending Iraq war crimes bragging criminal courts exist and our military would never do any war crimes.
We just making stuff up now??? Or just not giving context to fit your narrative??? Hamas are straight up actual terrorist. I guarantee you are a silly kid who has no real consistency when it comes to Israel. What does equal force look like??? Who broke the cease fire on October 7th??? You are incredibly simple minded hahaha. What is the appropriate response for Israel to have to October 7th??
@@tempacc9589 There are clips with millions of views of Destiny saying that the IDF commits war crimes. In the debate, he specifically objected to the charge of genocide, and brought a strong argument along with him. I suggest you actually watch the debate instead of mindlessly repeating Hasan's reaction videos. Destiny cleared Finkelstein, who came off as a petulant child. Even Finkelstein's debate partner (who was actually quite good, probably the strongest debater of the four) was embarrassed.
Finkelstein is such a charlatan. Whatever you think about the conflict, it exposes your intellect (or laziness) if you are someone who thinks Finkelstein is a good faith actor. END OF STORY. There are plenty of people who make the case for supporting Palestinian causes who don't act in bad faith like Finkelstein. He used every dirty tactic in the book. If you don't understand what I'm referring to then learn more history, do more research and then do a better job of sifting through the ad hominin and false dilemma arguments that Finkelstein crams (like f'ing crazy) into his narratives.
Finklestein was denied tenure because of his incompetence. What specifically did he say that was incorrect? Morris who Finklestein lauds in this clip complements him throughout.
@@SerenaLi-dl9bl hard to do that when they keep talking over each other. At least the universtiy professors have proper debate etiquette. Destiny appear to care about winning, not the truth, from what I've seen in this clip.
Start a war? Israel kills a few thousand palestinians every 3 or 4 years... they call it "mowing the grass" but palestinian lives mean so much less to you that all those times dont count. Unsurprising your view is shared by zionists and nobody else.
If you play this at 1.25x speed, Finklestein's tempo is normalized, but Destiny becomes imperceptible. If you play it at .75x speed, Destiny's tempo is normalized but Finklestein's audio sounds like blue whale vocalizations.
absolutely brilliant comedy, after repeated minutes of enough shouting over each other to give one tinnitus, Lex reveals to us that he is actually the moderator that is moderating a moderated debate.
It is not easy to moderate while people shout at each other 😂. Lex, come to group therapy, and you know what l mean. Only jocking 😂. In group therapy, setting anything can happen, but a very important task of a group leader - therapist - is to present, apply, and implement the rules of a group. Otherwise , chaos will spread. P.S. Have you seen the meme ? 😂😅😅
@@danielharrington5690 yeah i don't think that was a good decision, you literally have three really well educated people, who could contend on the basis of facts, but instead we got five hours of screaming and adhoms... unlucky
@@willgia yeah he has been writing about this subject before borelli was even conceived. Im sorry bro but even well respected academics have their limits to how much ignorance they can sustain.
will never understand why you guys refuse to engage with the topic and keep the focus on people's wives they ain't your wives why do you care, focus on the topic why is it that destiny is wrong i'll wait@@theredgoblin562
It's cos he was 1v1 with Shmuley - if you speak slow like Finky 1v1 it can work to your advantage; however, speak slow in a team debate (esp. vs someone like Destiny) & you start to feel like you're letting the side down by being too slow!
Finkelstein was already irritated with Destiny. Destiny didn't show up at their original debate, if I recall correctly, and was dismissive of Finkelstein's time.
Finkelstein directly said ...."overwhelming majority", which means he did not lie. Destiny needs to listen a little more and talk less. He so wanted to get a point out that he forgot to make sure it was correct.
To be fair, I think they were complaining about Rabbani. But even he said "clear majority", so it came across as pearl clutching over irrelevant semantics.
The fact a guy wants us to believe, that aligns himself with men, women can be men. Is hilarious. He such an insight on history but denies recorded and established medical/scientific history. This dude is a clear fraud a fence jumper setup by powerful people to try and influence the youth into a certain narrative.
They both seem oddly, at least overly heated, Destiny slightly more overly confrontational (but the two close) when they were actually mostly agreeing that it was mostly not completely peaceful.
@@Gooch_cruiser challenged by a video gamer?! It is more like Norman is putting up with people who are not even on the same caliber of knowledge as him.
@@itsjustdamian the question was does israel intentionally target civilians. which they very clearly did during the great march of return. istg destiny fans cannot understand the world outside of random debate gotchas and sophistry.
@@ererererd9497 did you watch the debate? Destiny and benny agreed instantly that Israel soldiers have on occasion targeted civilians but that it's not a top to bottom policy, especially with airstrikes. If you watched the debate you should know that they admitted that straight away and then norm still rambled on about "there was the snipers" for ten mins. 😆
@@itsjustdamian u can’t say it’s not top down when israeli officials at all levels of the government have been advocating for the destruction of gaza and the expulsion of palestinians from gaza for years. that is genocidal intent alongside genocidal action. i.e. genocide by the un definition.
@@itsjustdamian “remember what amalek did to you” “we are rolling out the gaza nakba” that sort of language is genocidal. that alongside the measures taken to lower birth rates in gaza (deprivation of food and water and the bombing of hospitals) is more than enough to establish special intent. that soldiers were not directly given orders doesn’t really matter when the pm of israel is quoting amalek, and when israeli soldiers have historically faced little to no repercussions for the intentional murder of civilians.
3:40 Destiny quotes the UN saying "While the vast majority of protesters acted in a peaceful manner.." 4:18 Destiny saying how Norm referred to the march as "mostly peaceful" as if it's false and ridiculous. He accuses Norm of selectively reading/acknowledging UN statements and then demonstrates straight after what selective reading looks like.
destiny is such a moron it’s so painful to listen to him speak, and then his weird cult following has the audacity to complain about norm treating him with the contempt he deserves
That made me laugh. It's interesting reading the comments for this video. The topic is genocide but everyone is commenting like they're watching a comedy routine.
this whole zionism thing is an act. everything was prepared and worked on. hahaha. it's a horror movie where all the cast were '' a real time serial killers'' directly or indirectly.
@@shariffseyzza4366 you have been fed propaganda through a nasogastric tube since you were born. How could you possibly think for yourself and realize zionism is morally sensible?! You do get it, right? All you're doing is expressing how intellectually limited you are...
Solid Facts. He makes me embarrassed to be a millennial. Isn’t funny how every single nerdy beta male has a full beard? It’s like it’s their last reminder that they’re actually real men. lol what a bunch of jokes.
@@Makonator007To anyone who knows nothing Finkle might look poor because Destiny screams loads of lies with enough confidence like a 13 year old child. Go google the four kids killed on the beach. Destiny was 100% lying and Norm was completely right.
@tempacc9589 when you answer on certain questions that are not true, usually it's "that's a lie", or you just tell what the truth is...norm on lots of them just go "don't show ur ignorance", without offering counter points...not all but on a lot of them....even lex stopped him from quoting Benny's line...
Lex telling Finkelstein off for the "hilarious" remark is HILARIOUS because the same Lex was as mute as a fish when Destiny was literally LAUGHING in the room.
Lex literally interviewed genocidal war-criminal, Benjamin Netanyahu, and said he did that interview to, "add love in the world." He tweeted it & that tweet is still up for a source. Lex is clearly not objective and supports Zionism. Take that as you will.
Destiny just comes off like he went to the Ben Shapiro school of fast talking B.S. He just wants to look like he’s the smartest one in the room. For a historian, Morris seemed very biased.
@@fankaydarius5849 He's either senile or a 70 year old "scholar" employing 3rd grade debate tactics by pretending to not know someone's name. Don't know which one is worse.
@@withinfinite5104Apart from Wikipedia what is your study of the IDF ? He makes a claim that he understands the IDF military process but where are his credentials, he was shown for being a liar in his debate with Omar Baddad
I dont dickride destiny, but norms attitude was childish for a so called scholar in is research, this debate put me off norm entirely. Absolutely disappointing for such a debate
@@jashanarora17 if by remembering facts you mean constantly misquoting books from the guy sitting right across the table from you until the moderator has to tell you to move on, then sure.
@@cluttereddrawers2084as he was reading the report he clearly fucked up. Henece why he read it so fast and mumbled past the part where the report said it was overwhelmingly peaceful. In a large protest of thousands of people there will always be minorities that get careied away and violent, that doesn’t justify the hundreds of killings and attacks on civilians (unless they're Palestinian because they're obviously savages and radicalised ofc ). His debate partner himself literally admitted the IDF acted poorly during the great march and condemned it before Destiny read the report.
@@suf1an658 the UN reports the crowd was setting fires at the fence, flying incendiary kites which damaged agriculture, so yes overwhelmingly peaceful, with a tiny minority setting fires and flying fires into Israel. Nobody justified attacks on civilians, destiny and benny both said soldiers in the IDF who targeted people like that should and some have been tried for it.
Finkelstien says: “overwhelming non violent”. Destiny: YoUrE LYING then he reads: “while the vast majority….”Then he continues to cry about it like he is not wrong. This guy is suffering from cognitive dissonance, he is not well versed on the issue and he super qualifies all his statements to weasel his way through arguments. Destiny is a skilled weasel, that’s all he is.
This part… he’s a debate bro… they train to talk the loudest and fastest not because they are right or wrong they just want the perceived “win” by not allowing the other side to talk
I think it’s a courtesy from where he comes from that when you talk to somebody that you’re not mutual that the respectful thing is to address them by their last name
@@snuffcarl to give viewers a microcosm of why there's such contention around the world about this issue. It's a microcosm of the macrocosm. People talking over each other, having different perspectives and information that inform their views, no one really able to come to a peaceful conclusion.
Finklestein who couldn’t remember dolus specialis even though he claimed to have read that document 3 times? The same guy that kept cutting off the person reading from the actual document. The guy who kept trying to explain to an author what that author meant in his own book? The one the moderator had to cut off twice in the debate?
@@Lysergicide25 well and assuming all of the scholars have read 10,000 books then to average it that’s at least 3,333 for Norm, plus rereading books too. His brain must be fried, but it doesn’t compare to Katt Williams
@@AjaxDGonzo the bozo read the UN report that said the March was MOSTLY PEACEFUL and then said Norm was lying about the March being mostly peaceful. Don’t try and save face for this dipshit 😂
So it is impossible for the IDF to target children because they are 'organized'? What does that even mean? I wish they wouldn't stop interrupting Finkelstein with non-sequiturs, but on the other hand I wish Finkelstein wasn't so easily wound up.
That's what happens when you actually care about and spend your entire life delving into a subject only to show up and have to deal with a shill who cares about nothing and who thinks tired and easily debunked talking points are "gotchas".
No the point was that it would imply a top down policy to target civilians if there were drones, etc. used because they would have to be signed off and agreed upon by more than just the guy flying the drone. What this means is that Norm is implying there is a policy to target civilians.
@@Jockito as we know, the US has never killed children through drone / airstrikes OR targeted civilians. Anyone who actually thinks that there's a team of lawyers sitting there, analyzing the drone footage in real-time to wage whether a AGM should be fired is "regarded", it's just a deflection tactic to emphasize how "careful & moral" they are. If the laywers even go over the drone strike, which I doubt, they'll just look at how many civilians are in an area, and wage whether you should drop leaflets etc. or just do the strike without notice. By your logic, My Lai massacre should not have happened, yet it did & people commit war crimes IN PERSON and listened to their commander.
this is a very dumb strawman. None of that is remotley addressing what Jockito said. OF COURSE it's still possible for war crimes to happen despite procedures to stop them. That fact doesn't mean you can just pretend those procedures don't exist in order to paint a war in the most cartoonishly simple terms. @@based4573
@@based4573 All you have said doesn't disprove the lack of a policy to target civilians wich was the initial claim. How hard is it to just follow what was said? Making the argument that targeting civilians is endemic in the IDF is completely different than arguing that there is a military policy to target civilians.
Can we all just respect the fact that finklestein is such a gentleman, to talk as slow as humanly possible to make sure Lex gets all that sweet ad revenue.
He’s not to be truffled with in this matter he’s educated and dedicated on Palestinian Isreali occupation facts and figures that’s are verified not just usual lies
Destiny needed this. He and his fans consider him an intellectual because he sounds smart when he’s “debating” dipshit influencers. He’s so out of place here in a roomful of academics. He and Benny Morris are lacking morality on this. The rationalizations these two have made about the genocide going on in Gaza against an oppressed population is despicable.
Can't imagine the ego you must have to go up against a bunch of academics after reading only wikipedia. He calls Vaush lazy (which he is) for not doing any research, but Destiny barely does anything beyond some surface level reading. Honestly, he's made up his mind before he goes into a topic and reads some things to confirm it and some common counters people use
I think he did good. He never argued that he was as or more knowledgeable than any of the people there. That said, Norman Frankenwien is clearly a schizo lol
@@sohail4287 What exactly was he uneducateed on? And if he was uneducated on these things, why did Norm freak out at his claims and insult him as opposed to dismantling his arguments? Sounds like he didn't know how to dismantle his arguments.
@@CR33SIVE Because his "claims" were obviously bs and deserved to be ridiculed. Imagine making these claims with all the videos out there surfacing online. This guy is out here trying to paints these people as saints lmfao.
There was a missed opportunity here to clearly point out a contradiction Destiny was making. Destiny emphasized how unlikely it is that civilians were targeted by the IDF simply due to the rigorous checks and balances built into the chain of command, ie it would have to be approved at higher levels, not just by one soldier. But then minutes later he concedes that members of the IDF likely have targeted civilians at times. My question to Destiny would then be, of those cases that you acknowledge civilians have been targeted, by your own logic wouldn’t those have also been approved all the way up the chain of command? This is important because it actually makes Norms point even stronger, Destiny’s own argument proves that these are not just one off rogue soldiers killing civilians, but a deliberate goal of the IDF.
@@balzinderchhabra8804 in what way? Was it when flinkle didn't know about -dolus speciales- that is essential to prove genocide and is cited multiple times in the ICJ report he claims to have read and to save himself he used Mens rea ? That's your intellectual Titan? When a person can out pace your knowledge of a subject in 5 months your no Titan of anything 😂😂
@@willgiaYes in tha clip he said Isreal never purposely targets civilians even though they have a 90% civilian kill rate with their "targeted bombing". Even if that were true, the 15,000 children are still dead. Want another one?
while Destiny can definitely argue an interpretation that he wants to...the idea that Destiny thinks he can school Finkelstein on the FACTS of the conflict is laughable and reveals he's nothing but a sophist.
Exactly. It's funny that his fans on this thread are viewing him as a high intellectual or is knowledgeable on the matter, is laughable. the guy came from gaming to going on dating advice platforms to a political RUclipsr. He is just drifting to whatever is currently a major topic.
If you think you are right, give me specific examples where Destiny is wrong in arguing Finkle, and finkle is right. I don’t believe you’ve formed your own opinion if you can’t.
@@fafolaw Someone people believe "guilty, until proven innocent" when it comes to anything pro-Western. It's definitely not a clear sign of Marxism, don't worry about it. Forget I've said anything.
Even worse is this: 3:40 Destiny quotes the UN saying "While the vast majority of protesters acted in a peaceful manner.." 4:18 Destiny mentioning that Norm referred to the march as "mostly peaceful" as if it's false and ridiculous.
So, I think you're being a bit rhetorical here, and instead what you *mean* is probably that Destiny's argument lacks substance, and hence can be reduced down to a one-liner. Am I correct in saying that? If so, why does Destiny's argument in this video lack substance?
And it's a solid point, unless you believe the IDF is made up of cartoon villains who got handed a quota from the heavens to commit x amount of morally wrong acts. Even during some of the most vile acts of serial killing or organized mass killing, the perpetrators had their own twisted reasons and were subject to material concerns.
@@chuckles3116Nice strawman, why are all Destiny fans just comprised of logical fallacies. They obviously aren’t cartoon villains, but rather just war criminals of a pariah state.
@@daddykipperflipper4600 When Germany made the Dirlewanger brigade, they had the clear goal of breaking the spirit of Polish resistance. Even if we suppose that the IDF is equally bad 100% on purpose, they need to be bad for a reason, and that alleged reason needs to be consistent with their actions.
@@MagneVikjord Except IDF commanders are literally on the record discussing the deliberate targeting of civilians as military policy. How you don't know this basic fact I have no idea
@@ElKoubi1975 I guess you didn't watch it, a "scholar" having temper tantrums and resorting to insults because his narratives where picked apart by "someone that only reads wikipedia"
@@guyjackson1261 if that makes you feel better..... I am happy for you :) Jusdging by the ciments in the comments section, you must feel lonely (you will now argue that it is not the case, and that you are the majority lol
One side driven by logic and attempts to reach a rational solution, the other driven by emotion and literal ad-hominem attacks. Yep, this debate sums up the entire issue.
Are you sure it both sides ....cuz to me one side tries to displace people using 2000 year old excuse while the other side tries to fight back .@@runntlan7177
No, Norm is the least humorous person on the planet. I’ve never heard a better place for name play jokes than talks of genocide. He can’t even let a gamer finish a sentence it’s apparently so painful. While children die, the people apparently speaking falsehoods are too painful to let speak.
Also incredible how Bottachelli is impressed by how many bombs were so quickly dropped at the onset of Protective Edge when all that really confirms for the rest of us is how viciously aggressive the IDF is in its bombing campaigns.
He didn't. Unlike other figures he isnt married to one side in an ideological manner. He called the IDF out for this drone strike and condemned it. Even though he supports Israel as a whole, he is willing to call out the wrongs of his side, something pro-palestinians cannot do.
@@TidyDisarrayI mean I think he was laughing at how ridiculous Finklestein was. If you watch the whole thing he is out of control here and lex has to talk to him multiple times.
You HAVE to regulate mics and over speaking. It's beyond annoying. That one guy not answering questions and being smug and everyone needs to be allowed to speak at lengths and then allowed to be answered at lengths. Love love love the format.
this was a 5 hour long episode. i imagine you’re talking about finklestein? if so, tbf destiny had provided zero value for most of it and was actively being taught things during this debate. it’s unfortunately a 2v1😂
He didn't dodge one question. Destiny cherry-picking one quote from South Africa's ICJ case saying it was deceptive (it actually wasn't anyway) in order to dismiss the veracity of the entire case was beyond pathetic. Just because you talk fast while nervously shaking and pretending to check off facts on a piece of paper doesn't make you an authority. Destiny was shook.@@Neon-jn3sp
@@itsbohrkyeah it wasn’t as if Destiny was the one who taught Finkelfraud about the duolo specialis part and not the mens rea that Finkelfraud said 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
What stands out to me is how succinct and measured the pro-Palestine side speaks their minds, versus how extremely fast and animated the pro-Israel side speaks theirs. Prof. Finkelstein gets a bit loud when he’s irritated at the idiocy of Destiny, but Destiny and Mr Morris keep that extremely quick and jittery tempo almost the entire debate. It’s almost like they’re both anxious to say anything, everything, and as much as they can to defend wanton, indiscriminate murder and land grabs. Maybe they think that if they overwhelm the room with word vomit, the nastiness of what they’re saying will be lost in the translation.
@@raccoonduck5406 Listen a bit more closely to the conversation, Destiny makes several mistakes in just a few minutes. Here an example: At 3:40 he quotes the UN saying "While the vast majority of protesters acted in a peaceful manner…" but at 4:18 he criticizes Norm for referring to the march as "mostly peaceful" as if it's false and ridiculous. 38 seconds apart...
That is the goal of Zionist defenders. They make sure such debates collapse, especially with experts, so you never hear the truth. You end up thinking it's just an unsolvable, contentious issue but it's not. Ethnic cleansing and ethnostates are inherently evil.
@@gtlogic6023 Norm is a political scientist and a researcher of the Holocaust and the Israeli Palestinian conflict. He is also an author and a university lecturer. In other words, he has spent decades studying and researching these two topics and also lecturing at universities on the subjects. I'm not sure which part of that you think is sleazy though. What are Destiny's credentials on the subjects? I don't know if you have spent some time learning and researching something and knowing it really well and then having some guy challenging you on your craft based on stuff he read about it on Wikipedia. Also, and most importantly, Norm is an activist for the rights of Palestinian people. He probably has been that for as long as Destiny has been alive. Destiny is a very arrogant and ignorant chipmunk and I don't blame Norm for losing his 💩.
@@gtlogic6023 Norm is a researcher, scholar and activist. His fields of study are the Holocaust and the Israeli Palestinian conflict. Destiny was no match for him here, no wonder he got annoyed by his presence.
Potentially interesting tactic by Morris at 3:00. He interrupts Finkelstein by saying that he is willing to concede the point and tells him he doesn't have to go any further. He feels uncomfortable with Finkelstein laying out all the facts on record because he knows they are not favorable to his position and so prefers that they not be advertised to the audience. Rabbani shrewdly picked up in this tactic and quickly said he does not know about this case and wants to hear more, even though he is most likely very familiar with it.
I love how they're arguing that the Israeli airforce is super precise and organised, meanwhile Israeli news outlets have reported that the helicopter pilots on October 7 were joining WhatsApp groups to figure out what to target 😂
Full podcast episode: ruclips.net/video/1X_KdkoGxSs/видео.html
Lex Fridman podcast channel: ruclips.net/user/lexfridman
Guest bio: Norman Finkelstein and Benny Morris are historians. Mouin Rabbani is a Middle East analyst. Steven Bonnell (aka Destiny) is a political livestreamer.
youre sick for monetizing this type of content while innocent people and children are being starved and killed in Palestine. there is no debate and youre beyond wrong for platforming this as such.
Enough of this idi0t in your show bro.
Isn't allowing people to damn themselves on a public platform essentially a net positive? Idk why you'd be salty that Lex takes some $ home as a result of his making it available.
Im supposed to take a college dropout seriously? Who uses wikipedia as a source? Who debates on discord ? And Interrupts? Gtfo theres 3 scholars and 1 idiot.
Lmao destiny is a college drop out who thinks he is qualified for this debate after reading wikipedia 😂😂😂 lex fridman you really showed your bias after years of watching your content I have unsubscribed do not tell me that killing over 20,000 children is a moral and military accurate precision target with a straight face. I can tell you right now that same exact straight face lie was said by hitler himself.
The fact destiny has a seat at the table is absolutely hysterical
viewers only
the fact that anybody gives this idiot any platform is unbelieveable.
Why? What specifically did he present that was incorrect? Respected Benny Morris agreed with him numerous times through out.
He was way better than Norm. I don’t know if Norm should have a seat at any table.
@@HostileTakeover555I would give OP the benefit of the doubt here, I think it's funny to see D-man who didn't know jack about this topic 5 months ago being so quick on his feet to dunk on the supposed most fampus pro palestine academic currently.
Hamas stole a piece of Destiny's beard, that's a disgrace
Lmao
KHAMAS
His beard always looks so bad even without that scuff mark. It makes him look punchable with that soy beard.
I bet you're like norm resorting to ad hominems and insults as a means of Winning a debate 😂
Lmmmaaoooooo
You are about to be insulted when they say to you, “With all due respect….”
Glad I read your comment before I wrote mine earlier because I was literally going to write the same exact thing!
Nice to see you here Lead. It has been a while. I was one of your first subs. Hope you are well.
Lead are you going on anytime soon?
It’s a really great phrase because for half a second the person thinks they’re being respected until they realize the amount of respect due is none.
But he lost…
Historian vs Wikipedia's finest redditor
Please don't call fecalstain a redditor.
Finkelstein isn’t a historian lmfao
@@jonathonchabluk5070Raul Hilberg the founder of Holocaust studies disagrees
@@johnvermassen I don’t care about what somebody else thinks. Finkelstein is a sociology major, not a history one.
@@johnvermassen Neat. I guess he's wrong, too, then. Would you also assume the world is flat if he said so?
Pretty unfair that Mr Finkle had to debate Mr Bonell, Borelli, and Bonelli all at the same time
And MORELLI
Don't steal jokes from the comment section of the original video, come on
When your ideology and beliefs get proven completely wrong so the best thing you can do is make fun of mispronouncing names:
Stop recycling jokes
@@kasino7132 please dont arrest me 🙏
The IDF literally bragged on twitter saying “we know where every bullet landed.”
This is the infuriating part. These Zionist defenders hear them bragging like we do but love playing dumb. They're not there in good faith. The goal is to make people doubt the facts and truth.
Idf: There are no accidents
Mr Borelli: That's just an accident!
Destiny sounds like one of those kids defending Iraq war crimes bragging criminal courts exist and our military would never do any war crimes.
Citation needed
We just making stuff up now??? Or just not giving context to fit your narrative??? Hamas are straight up actual terrorist. I guarantee you are a silly kid who has no real consistency when it comes to Israel. What does equal force look like??? Who broke the cease fire on October 7th??? You are incredibly simple minded hahaha. What is the appropriate response for Israel to have to October 7th??
@@tempacc9589 There are clips with millions of views of Destiny saying that the IDF commits war crimes. In the debate, he specifically objected to the charge of genocide, and brought a strong argument along with him. I suggest you actually watch the debate instead of mindlessly repeating Hasan's reaction videos. Destiny cleared Finkelstein, who came off as a petulant child. Even Finkelstein's debate partner (who was actually quite good, probably the strongest debater of the four) was embarrassed.
Everytime he says “Mr Borelli” I die laughing
At 3:31 it became "Mr Morelli", it only has 3 letters left from the original name 😂
Truly the behaviour you expect from a respected historian.
Finkelstein is such a charlatan. Whatever you think about the conflict, it exposes your intellect (or laziness) if you are someone who thinks Finkelstein is a good faith actor. END OF STORY. There are plenty of people who make the case for supporting Palestinian causes who don't act in bad faith like Finkelstein. He used every dirty tactic in the book. If you don't understand what I'm referring to then learn more history, do more research and then do a better job of sifting through the ad hominin and false dilemma arguments that Finkelstein crams (like f'ing crazy) into his narratives.
Because his student named him boring racist.
Lol yeh classic trolling from Norm. Good on Destiny for handling it so well.
Mr. Broccoli’s nervous tick with the pen is hilarious 😂
8:48 he's literally just scribbling nonsense he's so nervous and trying to act like he's actually taking notes, 😂
The IDF's body count is tied with Destiny's wife at 30 thousand since October 7th.
YOOOOOOOO 🎉
😂😂😂😂
Savage
This is fiiiiiiiiiiire bro
ouch
I'm sure destiny's wife's boyfriend is very proud of how he handled himself in this debate.
lmao
Nah, both of them left him with the kid lmao
@@barney10240 no way?!
She broke up with him to date a Swedish twink she was already sleeping with
lol
Destiny has a Phd in Wikipedia knowledge.
Just as bad as Finkelstein's PhD in Ad Hominems.
@@suren5174Destiny kept desperately looking at Wikipedia to get his digs in lol.
@@AryanManIam I know you are not that stupid to think that was actually wiki, right?
@@sikkouvol.1996 Cope more stan
@@sikkouvol.1996he is that stupid
"Moron" is an understatement.
He probably isn't even close to the amount of books katt williams has read.
😂😂😂
Banger
In a year, Katt clears more than all 5 put together 💪💪💪
They only let him take out 20 books at a time!!
He smoked so much crack he couldn’t give you a synopsis on a single one
Why is Destiny even debating with University Professors? 😂😂😂
Finklestein was denied tenure because of his incompetence. What specifically did he say that was incorrect? Morris who Finklestein lauds in this clip complements him throughout.
What is this dumb gatekeeping just look at what they actually said
@@HostileTakeover555 He wasn't denied tenure for "incompetence." You're either an idiot or you just think we are.
lol, what kind of dimwit still respects university ranks?
@@SerenaLi-dl9bl hard to do that when they keep talking over each other. At least the universtiy professors have proper debate etiquette. Destiny appear to care about winning, not the truth, from what I've seen in this clip.
Killing children is bad.
So don’t start wars and use them as shields. And also don’t use teenage soldiers and call them children.
@@spiderqueen601Israel started the war decades ago
Start a war? Israel kills a few thousand palestinians every 3 or 4 years... they call it "mowing the grass" but palestinian lives mean so much less to you that all those times dont count. Unsurprising your view is shared by zionists and nobody else.
mkay?
such an amazing take... really insightful thank you
If you play this at 1.25x speed, Finklestein's tempo is normalized, but Destiny becomes imperceptible. If you play it at .75x speed, Destiny's tempo is normalized but Finklestein's audio sounds like blue whale vocalizations.
What a great summary
Finklestein is so majestic.
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Immovable object vs an Unstoppable force
@@Phoenix00Knight lol destiny is a feather propelled by a fart
absolutely brilliant comedy, after repeated minutes of enough shouting over each other to give one tinnitus, Lex reveals to us that he is actually the moderator that is moderating a moderated debate.
Funniest part hands down “this is not hilarious”
HAHAHA
It is not easy to moderate while people shout at each other 😂.
Lex, come to group therapy, and you know what l mean. Only jocking 😂.
In group therapy, setting anything can happen, but a very important task of a group leader - therapist - is to present, apply, and implement the rules of a group. Otherwise , chaos will spread.
P.S. Have you seen the meme ?
😂😅😅
the funny part is that Lex is pro-israel himself 🤡
@@danielharrington5690 yeah i don't think that was a good decision, you literally have three really well educated people, who could contend on the basis of facts, but instead we got five hours of screaming and adhoms... unlucky
1:53 I’ll even answer Moron’s question 😂😂😂 yoooooooo
Well respected academic, btw
Talking to wikipedia's finest btw@@willgia
@@eugenekrabs869Yet he still came out worse than Ms. Bugatti. How embarrassing.
@@willgia yeah he has been writing about this subject before borelli was even conceived. Im sorry bro but even well respected academics have their limits to how much ignorance they can sustain.
well he was being a moron@@willgia
Norm,Mr Borelli ,Mr Morelli and Mr Marselli walk into a bar
"Im seeing double, call them both fantastical genocidal morons"
All of them argue about politics while their wives leave with different men
will never understand why you guys refuse to engage with the topic and keep the focus on people's wives they ain't your wives why do you care, focus on the topic why is it that destiny is wrong i'll wait@@theredgoblin562
...and then the nursing home came and took Norm and his three imaginary friends back.
@@theredgoblin562 Destiny probably ok with that, he can work it into his schedule
The fact that Destiny irritated Norman Finkelstein enough to insult him but not rabbi Shmuley is pretty wild
Rabbi schmuly is a frauder and knows it. Destiny is just a pseudo intellectual
Look at his face I'd bw irritated too
It’s because destiny is idiotically arrogant. It’s infuriating when someone doesn’t realise just how ill equipped they are.
It's cos he was 1v1 with Shmuley - if you speak slow like Finky 1v1 it can work to your advantage; however, speak slow in a team debate (esp. vs someone like Destiny) & you start to feel like you're letting the side down by being too slow!
Finkelstein was already irritated with Destiny. Destiny didn't show up at their original debate, if I recall correctly, and was dismissive of Finkelstein's time.
Finkelstein directly said ...."overwhelming majority", which means he did not lie. Destiny needs to listen a little more and talk less. He so wanted to get a point out that he forgot to make sure it was correct.
To be fair, I think they were complaining about Rabbani. But even he said "clear majority", so it came across as pearl clutching over irrelevant semantics.
The fact a guy wants us to believe, that aligns himself with men, women can be men. Is hilarious. He such an insight on history but denies recorded and established medical/scientific history.
This dude is a clear fraud a fence jumper setup by powerful people to try and influence the youth into a certain narrative.
You haven’t even seen the debate…. All these people shitting on Mr. Vitelli didn’t form their own opinions
Your right, how was just deliberately misleading, which is still a slimy form of lying
They both seem oddly, at least overly heated, Destiny slightly more overly confrontational (but the two close) when they were actually mostly agreeing that it was mostly not completely peaceful.
The most animated I've seen Norman Finklestein in a conversation.
It’s because he’s being challenged in ways he’s never been and it frustrates him. Pretty par for the course.
@@Gooch_cruiser whatever you say
@@Gooch_cruiser challenge by who. You tubers who are justifying a Holocaust . Kanye did what destiny is doing he was cancelled by everyone
@@Gooch_cruiser challenged by a video gamer?! It is more like Norman is putting up with people who are not even on the same caliber of knowledge as him.
@@saifalam2030????????
“I will even answer moron’s questions” underrated line
Lmao
@@itsjustdamian the question was does israel intentionally target civilians. which they very clearly did during the great march of return. istg destiny fans cannot understand the world outside of random debate gotchas and sophistry.
@@ererererd9497 did you watch the debate? Destiny and benny agreed instantly that Israel soldiers have on occasion targeted civilians but that it's not a top to bottom policy, especially with airstrikes. If you watched the debate you should know that they admitted that straight away and then norm still rambled on about "there was the snipers" for ten mins. 😆
@@itsjustdamian u can’t say it’s not top down when israeli officials at all levels of the government have been advocating for the destruction of gaza and the expulsion of palestinians from gaza for years. that is genocidal intent alongside genocidal action. i.e. genocide by the un definition.
@@itsjustdamian “remember what amalek did to you” “we are rolling out the gaza nakba” that sort of language is genocidal. that alongside the measures taken to lower birth rates in gaza (deprivation of food and water and the bombing of hospitals) is more than enough to establish special intent. that soldiers were not directly given orders doesn’t really matter when the pm of israel is quoting amalek, and when israeli soldiers have historically faced little to no repercussions for the intentional murder of civilians.
Stephen “Motormouth” Borelli
Brr-brrrOOM. BRRRRROOOOOM
Methmouth
@@JTNuggetfirst instance I notice someone calling him out
Mr. Morelli.
mr.thoroughelly
To be fair he called Mr. Bonnell quite measured and informed. However regards Mr. Borrelli an absolute monster.
Nope. Steven is anything but informed.
Stevelli on the other hand is quite informed
@@AryanManIamwhat did he get wrong?
@@lampad4549 Everything
literally everything, he's a lazy pundit who is wildly outclassed @@lampad4549
3:40 Destiny quotes the UN saying "While the vast majority of protesters acted in a peaceful manner.."
4:18 Destiny saying how Norm referred to the march as "mostly peaceful" as if it's false and ridiculous.
He accuses Norm of selectively reading/acknowledging UN statements and then demonstrates straight after what selective reading looks like.
thank you.
This happened the entire debate. Destiny was consistently missing the precision of what was being said, or missing the entire point.
Bro Destiny himself said he is pro genocjde against Palestinian (way before oct 7), obviously he will have bias to be pro isrsel
Destiny is a defective Uzi spraying everywhere not hitting anything. Finkelstein is a 380mm devastating cannon.
destiny is such a moron it’s so painful to listen to him speak, and then his weird cult following has the audacity to complain about norm treating him with the contempt he deserves
Destiny the next day: “Norm Finkelstein called me fantastic”
Clip?
LMAO 😂
@@lucasbusselen9137it's a joke you fool.
@@lucasbusselen9137 brainlet
That made me laugh. It's interesting reading the comments for this video. The topic is genocide but everyone is commenting like they're watching a comedy routine.
There was a moderator that whole 5 minutes?!?
😂😂😂😂 yes!!
Lex intentionally let them express as they wish
bro there was an moderator the whole 5 hours and i didnt notice
😂
Have you seen the meme😂😂😂? Look it up.
Mr Borelli is using that pen 100% as a prop.
I don't think he can write and read properly
this whole zionism thing is an act. everything was prepared and worked on. hahaha. it's a horror movie where all the cast were '' a real time serial killers'' directly or indirectly.
and drinking water every 2 seconds, what a moron
@@shariffseyzza4366 you have been fed propaganda through a nasogastric tube since you were born. How could you possibly think for yourself and realize zionism is morally sensible?!
You do get it, right? All you're doing is expressing how intellectually limited you are...
After 6:00 I saw what you meant
He ain't writing shit.
What episode of Jerry Springer is this?
It’s a blooper
"JEREMIAH! JEREMIAH! JEREMIAH!"
HAHAHA! Shame. Could have been great. I almost didn't make it through all 5 hours.
RIP Jerry Springer. We will never forget your trailer trash fights.
Destiny.......you are NOT the father!
Destiny’s position in this debate was a coked-up rendition of Ben Shapiro’s “I don’t care about civilian casualties” middle school article
Neither does Finkelstein. He is selectively sanctimonious.
Destiny thought his "war is hell" argument was the ultimate checkmate
Its definitely adderall or vyvanse, no coke on earth can make you talk that fast while simultaneously saying not a god damn thing.
Destiny is what happens when a chronically online kid who took AP classes in high school maintains an adderall addiction into adulthood.
Solid Facts. He makes me embarrassed to be a millennial. Isn’t funny how every single nerdy beta male has a full beard? It’s like it’s their last reminder that they’re actually real men. lol what a bunch of jokes.
He took way too many classes of socialism
@b.pack3 so true
Obviously don't like him,but every debate I've seen he's wiped his opponent. So I guess your man got mauled before and you're sad
scarily accurate
Destiny trying to educate a man who spent entire life academically studying the issue😂😂😂😂
Finkle was tbh poor in this debate.
@@Makonator007even a poor Norman walks over the childish destiny
@@Makonator007To anyone who knows nothing Finkle might look poor because Destiny screams loads of lies with enough confidence like a 13 year old child. Go google the four kids killed on the beach. Destiny was 100% lying and Norm was completely right.
@tempacc9589 when you answer on certain questions that are not true, usually it's "that's a lie", or you just tell what the truth is...norm on lots of them just go "don't show ur ignorance", without offering counter points...not all but on a lot of them....even lex stopped him from quoting Benny's line...
Morris, who is the most prominent historian in this topic, agrees with Destiny on everything, so keep coping😂
I tried posting this on Pornhub but they don't accept rape
I don't laff at r*pe jokes, but this is the closest I've gotten! Props to u!
@@kushclarkkent6669no literally 😭
We are laughing about all the love in the room.
They do if you blur the faced out. I've heard that it's really hard to get videos taken down from the hub.
Finklestein can’t handle a debate. He crumbled
Lex telling Finkelstein off for the "hilarious" remark is HILARIOUS because the same Lex was as mute as a fish when Destiny was literally LAUGHING in the room.
Lex did show a Zionist bias...even if he himself isn't. Hasbara??
Lex literally interviewed genocidal war-criminal, Benjamin Netanyahu, and said he did that interview to, "add love in the world." He tweeted it & that tweet is still up for a source. Lex is clearly not objective and supports Zionism. Take that as you will.
I dont think he told him off, he was excusin (what i assume was himself) for laughin
Destiny just comes off like he went to the Ben Shapiro school of fast talking B.S. He just wants to look like he’s the smartest one in the room. For a historian, Morris seemed very biased.
but fink isn’t biased? 😂
Any specific criticism? Lol
morris' own colleagues in new history claim he's gone off the deep end. he's no longer a serious critical analyst
@@roiseven4749 didn’t finklestein’s own colleagues deny him tenure for ad hominem attacks lol
@@Jacqueline888No, he got railroaded for not toeing the Zionist line
Norm "I choose my words wisely"
(Also Norm) " MR BORELLI"
That is not contradictory
@@fankaydarius5849 He's either senile or a 70 year old "scholar" employing 3rd grade debate tactics by pretending to not know someone's name. Don't know which one is worse.
It's intentional disrespect. Nobody outside of reddit knows his name.
It's the "who omegalul" before the internet.
@@xxPenguinKnight7xxI agree. I believe norms points was to demonstrate how forgettable and insignificant Mr. Bartolli is at the table.
@@AC-it8rm he either has dementia or is just a bad faith hack
Only Mr Borelli, a 35 year old man, could bring life back to Finklestein, who, with all given respect, lives his life at .25 speed
Remind me what this has to do with the topic at hand
Slow ride, take it easy
@MP-mx9nf I wounldnt call it serenity, Finklestein starts screaming in some points over pretty basic points
@@withinfinite5104Apart from Wikipedia what is your study of the IDF ? He makes a claim that he understands the IDF military process but where are his credentials, he was shown for being a liar in his debate with Omar Baddad
@@tonytooshort Lighten up, it's called a joke.
Norms comedic timing is impeccable. I’m not saying the topic is funny, but seriously, the guy has comedic talent
I dont dickride destiny, but norms attitude was childish for a so called scholar in is research, this debate put me off norm entirely. Absolutely disappointing for such a debate
He does.
“Go look this up on your machine!”
that was hilarious
Old man doesn't like machines because it has facts.
@@doublestarships646Well, he remembered facts more than anyone in the debate. Books > machines
@@doublestarships646please take a shower immediately
@@jashanarora17 if by remembering facts you mean constantly misquoting books from the guy sitting right across the table from you until the moderator has to tell you to move on, then sure.
"What's your knowledge of the IDF beyond Wikipedia"
Benny is the only person in that room qualified to answer that question. Not Finklstine.
I was in the idf. NF has zero sense what the army is like
@@NugKnights Whatever sings ya to sleep.
@@Dunge0n Hes the only one who was in the IDF and the only one who speaks Hebrew.
@@snoopcelev1590gay
I dont anything about the guy with the beard but he reminds me of the old saying, 'a little knowledge is a dangerous thing'.
Any examples? Or you're just getting a feeling you can't back up because you randomly dislike him lol
@@cluttereddrawers2084 you watched it like I did. What do you need quotes for? Do you want me to 'cherry pick' 😂
@@cluttereddrawers2084as he was reading the report he clearly fucked up. Henece why he read it so fast and mumbled past the part where the report said it was overwhelmingly peaceful. In a large protest of thousands of people there will always be minorities that get careied away and violent, that doesn’t justify the hundreds of killings and attacks on civilians (unless they're Palestinian because they're obviously savages and radicalised ofc ). His debate partner himself literally admitted the IDF acted poorly during the great march and condemned it before Destiny read the report.
the irony of this statement is unfathomable, enough comments for today
@@suf1an658 the UN reports the crowd was setting fires at the fence, flying incendiary kites which damaged agriculture, so yes overwhelmingly peaceful, with a tiny minority setting fires and flying fires into Israel. Nobody justified attacks on civilians, destiny and benny both said soldiers in the IDF who targeted people like that should and some have been tried for it.
Finkelstien says: “overwhelming non violent”. Destiny: YoUrE LYING then he reads: “while the vast majority….”Then he continues to cry about it like he is not wrong. This guy is suffering from cognitive dissonance, he is not well versed on the issue and he super qualifies all his statements to weasel his way through arguments. Destiny is a skilled weasel, that’s all he is.
Weasel. Perfectly describes him. 👍
He is, in fact, a weaselly little liar dude.
It just demonstrates the difference between a skilled debater who is knowledgeable on the subject matter vs an internet debate lord
He's suffering from being a fantastic moron. Dr. Finkelstein diagnosed him accurately lol
This part… he’s a debate bro… they train to talk the loudest and fastest not because they are right or wrong they just want the perceived “win” by not allowing the other side to talk
Can we please call him mr. Borelli?? 😂😂
Nah, he deserves to be named after a stripper in Ft. Lauderdale.
I think it’s a courtesy from where he comes from that when you talk to somebody that you’re not mutual that the respectful thing is to address them by their last name
let's have a vote between Morelli and Borelli.
@@rootin222 His last name isn't Borelli lol, he was intentionally getting it wrong even though he does actually know it.
@@jacobwalsh7209 maybe it’s his New York accent
Telling Finkelstein 'let me educate you'..😂
And he did. Finkelstein was completely uneducated when it came to the processes of ordering/undergoing strikes.
@@coenhealy-johnson5194 Exactly.
Norm getting some of his own condescending medicine
Norm is a kook
Finklestein literally tried to 'educate' Benny on his own book lmao. Cope and seethe.
The real question is why wasn't Lex moderating more?
In the full version Lex have a disclaimer in the beginning where he states he won’t moderate
I heard that disclaimer, the question is why he made that choice ?
он был в ахуе
@@snuffcarlbecause this is raw
@@snuffcarl to give viewers a microcosm of why there's such contention around the world about this issue. It's a microcosm of the macrocosm. People talking over each other, having different perspectives and information that inform their views, no one really able to come to a peaceful conclusion.
It was worth watching the entire "debate" just to have Professor Finklestein say what I have been dying to say to Dustinia for years.😂😂😂
I think you mean Density.
@@Libbathegreat What makes you think that?
@@chocolatecosmos1424 its actually dustiny
Despicy
Dustbiny
“Then let me educate you?” Destiny a RUclips gamer, has the audacity to say that to PROFESSOR Finkelstein?
Finklestein who couldn’t remember dolus specialis even though he claimed to have read that document 3 times? The same guy that kept cutting off the person reading from the actual document. The guy who kept trying to explain to an author what that author meant in his own book? The one the moderator had to cut off twice in the debate?
@@AjaxDGonzo In all fairness, Norm has been studying this for 40 years. His memory isn't as good as it once was.
@@Lysergicide25 well and assuming all of the scholars have read 10,000 books then to average it that’s at least 3,333 for Norm, plus rereading books too. His brain must be fried, but it doesn’t compare to Katt Williams
@@AjaxDGonzo the bozo read the UN report that said the March was MOSTLY PEACEFUL and then said Norm was lying about the March being mostly peaceful. Don’t try and save face for this dipshit 😂
@AjaxDGonzo what are u talking about? He remembers it.. he just wanted to point out that the correct term in this context is "mens rea"
Too loud didn't read
Destiny got destroyed
@@henrysarson7417 norm wouldn't even let him read a quote from the un. very bad faith
@@bordedup546 thats based
@@bordedup546it’s okay, destiny’s whole career is bad faith
@@henrysarson7417 Is that what you think?
So it is impossible for the IDF to target children because they are 'organized'? What does that even mean? I wish they wouldn't stop interrupting Finkelstein with non-sequiturs, but on the other hand I wish Finkelstein wasn't so easily wound up.
That's what happens when you actually care about and spend your entire life delving into a subject only to show up and have to deal with a shill who cares about nothing and who thinks tired and easily debunked talking points are "gotchas".
No the point was that it would imply a top down policy to target civilians if there were drones, etc. used because they would have to be signed off and agreed upon by more than just the guy flying the drone. What this means is that Norm is implying there is a policy to target civilians.
@@Jockito as we know, the US has never killed children through drone / airstrikes OR targeted civilians. Anyone who actually thinks that there's a team of lawyers sitting there, analyzing the drone footage in real-time to wage whether a AGM should be fired is "regarded", it's just a deflection tactic to emphasize how "careful & moral" they are. If the laywers even go over the drone strike, which I doubt, they'll just look at how many civilians are in an area, and wage whether you should drop leaflets etc. or just do the strike without notice. By your logic, My Lai massacre should not have happened, yet it did & people commit war crimes IN PERSON and listened to their commander.
this is a very dumb strawman. None of that is remotley addressing what Jockito said. OF COURSE it's still possible for war crimes to happen despite procedures to stop them. That fact doesn't mean you can just pretend those procedures don't exist in order to paint a war in the most cartoonishly simple terms. @@based4573
@@based4573 All you have said doesn't disprove the lack of a policy to target civilians wich was the initial claim. How hard is it to just follow what was said? Making the argument that targeting civilians is endemic in the IDF is completely different than arguing that there is a military policy to target civilians.
Destiny shouldn’t even be in the room.
People making excuses for murdering children. SMH.
It’s called collateral damage my dude … do you know nothing of war?
How many German children died during ww2? Completely unacceptable according to your naive opinion
Yes, horrific and unacceptable. What if they were your kids?@@Killer1260
Your moniker is apt@@Killer1260
It's not a video game. @@Killer1260
Can we all just respect the fact that finklestein is such a gentleman, to talk as slow as humanly possible to make sure Lex gets all that sweet ad revenue.
I for one can't wait to taste FIJI water.
He’s not to be truffled with in this matter he’s educated and dedicated on Palestinian Isreali occupation facts and figures that’s are verified not just usual lies
I support McDonald’s
What episode of Curb is this from?
The one where Susie Greene says: nobody appreciates my complexity. And Larry says: How complex can you be? You're a Jew from the Bronx.
@@UnfinishedBob Perfect... :D
Destiny needed this. He and his fans consider him an intellectual because he sounds smart when he’s “debating” dipshit influencers. He’s so out of place here in a roomful of academics. He and Benny Morris are lacking morality on this. The rationalizations these two have made about the genocide going on in Gaza against an oppressed population is despicable.
Can't imagine the ego you must have to go up against a bunch of academics after reading only wikipedia. He calls Vaush lazy (which he is) for not doing any research, but Destiny barely does anything beyond some surface level reading. Honestly, he's made up his mind before he goes into a topic and reads some things to confirm it and some common counters people use
Well said
I think he did good. He never argued that he was as or more knowledgeable than any of the people there. That said, Norman Frankenwien is clearly a schizo lol
@@sohail4287 What exactly was he uneducateed on? And if he was uneducated on these things, why did Norm freak out at his claims and insult him as opposed to dismantling his arguments? Sounds like he didn't know how to dismantle his arguments.
@@CR33SIVE
Because his "claims" were obviously bs and deserved to be ridiculed. Imagine making these claims with all the videos out there surfacing online. This guy is out here trying to paints these people as saints lmfao.
There was a missed opportunity here to clearly point out a contradiction Destiny was making. Destiny emphasized how unlikely it is that civilians were targeted by the IDF simply due to the rigorous checks and balances built into the chain of command, ie it would have to be approved at higher levels, not just by one soldier. But then minutes later he concedes that members of the IDF likely have targeted civilians at times. My question to Destiny would then be, of those cases that you acknowledge civilians have been targeted, by your own logic wouldn’t those have also been approved all the way up the chain of command? This is important because it actually makes Norms point even stronger, Destiny’s own argument proves that these are not just one off rogue soldiers killing civilians, but a deliberate goal of the IDF.
not to mention how the idf killed israeli civillians as well with the testimony of israelis themselves
like why wouldnt they kill palestinians?
The only way my month would be completed would be if Destiny had a sparring session w/ Sean Strickland.
You know you're seething when you wish physical harm on someone instead of actually refuting any of their points.
This is the intellectual version of that. 🤣
@@balzinderchhabra8804 in what way? Was it when flinkle didn't know about -dolus speciales- that is essential to prove genocide and is cited multiple times in the ICJ report he claims to have read and to save himself he used Mens rea ? That's your intellectual Titan? When a person can out pace your knowledge of a subject in 5 months your no Titan of anything 😂😂
@@eugger3011look at the pfp are you surprised he resorted to violence so fast
@@jebalitabb8228 classic destiny fan, resorting to racism
They tried to get ben shapiro but he didnt want to debate finkelstein so they settled with Destiny
Destiny and Shapiro. 2 cheeks of the same butt
LOL one of the rare moments where shapino shows a glimpse of intelligence, nice.
@@p.chuckmoralesesquire3965 shapiro only won debate with college child
When you put two historians, a journalist and a gamer, together, this is what you get. sickening
The gamer cooked 😂
It's a sign of the decay of the U.S. that now a gamer that doesn't know anything about politics is considered a public intellectual.
@@j85grim4 oh, I see. You’re saying he said something stupid and wrong and you’re about to point out what he was wrong about, right? I’m so excited!
@@willgiaYes in tha clip he said Isreal never purposely targets civilians even though they have a 90% civilian kill rate with their "targeted bombing". Even if that were true, the 15,000 children are still dead. Want another one?
@@j85grim4 where do you get your figures from?
while Destiny can definitely argue an interpretation that he wants to...the idea that Destiny thinks he can school Finkelstein on the FACTS of the conflict is laughable and reveals he's nothing but a sophist.
Exactly. It's funny that his fans on this thread are viewing him as a high intellectual or is knowledgeable on the matter, is laughable. the guy came from gaming to going on dating advice platforms to a political RUclipsr. He is just drifting to whatever is currently a major topic.
If you think you are right, give me specific examples where Destiny is wrong in arguing Finkle, and finkle is right. I don’t believe you’ve formed your own opinion if you can’t.
@@johnym1Is this opinion formed by you? Show me an example
@@eddieleon9608 that's a weird question don't you think? Or is it that you can't search on RUclips and find out. Unless, you are a fake account.
@@eddieleon9608 I don't believe you are and actual account. How about that. Didn't we watch the same clip? I can't wait for your next comment.
Norm "Raging against them machines" Finkelstein.
This needs more likes. Have one.
Norm “rape and experimentation on millions makes no difference to me” Finklestein. He’s likened Israel to the Reich.
"an entire apparatus is designed to approve a strike" like the iraq war until julian d'assange leaked the strikes right?
Different country, different military
Is julian d'assange in the room with us right now?
@@plumbus813every military usually does this shit, don’t be naive
Until someone proves otherwise leaking info or something like that, no
@@fafolaw Someone people believe "guilty, until proven innocent" when it comes to anything pro-Western. It's definitely not a clear sign of Marxism, don't worry about it. Forget I've said anything.
"You got the month wrong". Video game streamers should stick to video games.
And the academic should get his facts right when he's read 10,000 books on the subject 😂
Even worse is this:
3:40 Destiny quotes the UN saying "While the vast majority of protesters acted in a peaceful manner.."
4:18 Destiny mentioning that Norm referred to the march as "mostly peaceful" as if it's false and ridiculous.
"israel wouldn't do bad things for no reason" seems to be destiny's entire argument
So, I think you're being a bit rhetorical here, and instead what you *mean* is probably that Destiny's argument lacks substance, and hence can be reduced down to a one-liner. Am I correct in saying that? If so, why does Destiny's argument in this video lack substance?
😂😂😂 dayha doctrine
And it's a solid point, unless you believe the IDF is made up of cartoon villains who got handed a quota from the heavens to commit x amount of morally wrong acts. Even during some of the most vile acts of serial killing or organized mass killing, the perpetrators had their own twisted reasons and were subject to material concerns.
@@chuckles3116Nice strawman, why are all Destiny fans just comprised of logical fallacies. They obviously aren’t cartoon villains, but rather just war criminals of a pariah state.
@@daddykipperflipper4600 When Germany made the Dirlewanger brigade, they had the clear goal of breaking the spirit of Polish resistance. Even if we suppose that the IDF is equally bad 100% on purpose, they need to be bad for a reason, and that alleged reason needs to be consistent with their actions.
They need a moderator to stop the interruptions
Lex is too full of love lmfao
When a level 1 newbie meets a level 100 raid boss..
Don’t you think Norm is getting completely outclassed in this clip? He’s messing up so hard on the military targeting piece
@@MagneVikjord lol your seeing something completely different 😂😂😂
@@MagneVikjord Except IDF commanders are literally on the record discussing the deliberate targeting of civilians as military policy. How you don't know this basic fact I have no idea
@@codyvandal2860If that's true, why didn't Norm mention that in this debate if he's such an expert?
@@Jockito "If" it's true? It is true.
"It's true I don't spend my nights on Wikipedia" LOOOOL
Maybe he should have, then he might have been able to refute a single argument in that entire 5 hour video.
@@jamesshepherd9390 I guess you didn't watch the debate
@@ElKoubi1975 I know for a fact you didn't watch the debate. The only other choice would be that you are mentally ill, and I'm not that uncharitable.
@@ElKoubi1975 I guess you didn't watch it, a "scholar" having temper tantrums and resorting to insults because his narratives where picked apart by "someone that only reads wikipedia"
@@guyjackson1261 if that makes you feel better..... I am happy for you :)
Jusdging by the ciments in the comments section, you must feel lonely (you will now argue that it is not the case, and that you are the majority lol
"Mr Martinelli...talk fast so people think that you're coherent." 4:00
Watching a youtuber versus a tenured professor is like watching an overconfident raygunn fighting hip hop masters.
This dialog proves that there will never be peace
One side driven by logic and attempts to reach a rational solution, the other driven by emotion and literal ad-hominem attacks. Yep, this debate sums up the entire issue.
@@zootsoot2006 theres no logic when they are both motivated by religious ideologies
Are you sure it both sides ....cuz to me one side tries to displace people using 2000 year old excuse while the other side tries to fight back .@@runntlan7177
@@runntlan7177nope. One side is motivated by imperialism and another side is motivated by rationality.
@@runntlan7177have you listened to any of this? The issue is about Land before religion
This is unlistenable
Most Israel Palestine debates are unlistenable
Agreed. All 3 insufferable.
Norm never stops talking
Perfectly listenable to me. Maybe get your ears checked.
NORM NORM NORM NORM
4:52 "I dont read things off of those machines" 🤣🤣 haven't laughed that hard in a good while
Mr borelli aka motormouth
Never realized how much Finkelstein sounds like Larry David, this definitely seems like an episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm
Nahhhh dude
He sounds more like Marty Funkhouser, rather than Larry 😂
He sounds like an old Jew
No, Norm is the least humorous person on the planet. I’ve never heard a better place for name play jokes than talks of genocide. He can’t even let a gamer finish a sentence it’s apparently so painful. While children die, the people apparently speaking falsehoods are too painful to let speak.
@@zachdave2994 I watch a lot of norm macdonald and seeing this in my notifications was interesting to say the least 😂😂😂
Benny morris on the IDF " in a very organised fashion with lawyers, chain of command..." (and whatsapp messages saying drop the bomb there!)
Also incredible how Bottachelli is impressed by how many bombs were so quickly dropped at the onset of Protective Edge when all that really confirms for the rest of us is how viciously aggressive the IDF is in its bombing campaigns.
7:07 let's see Destiny defend the recent killing of the foreign aid workers by Israeli drones.
He didn't. Unlike other figures he isnt married to one side in an ideological manner. He called the IDF out for this drone strike and condemned it. Even though he supports Israel as a whole, he is willing to call out the wrongs of his side, something pro-palestinians cannot do.
@@ri3121 How can they though? I don't think you realise the passive aggressiveness coming from your statement.
Benny Morris was living his best life
bro was just there for the destiny roast
@@davesprivateloungefr he even laughed at him when he wast being roasted by the opposition 🤣
@@TidyDisarrayI mean I think he was laughing at how ridiculous Finklestein was. If you watch the whole thing he is out of control here and lex has to talk to him multiple times.
@@TidyDisarraylmao you have actual brainrot
@@hhjhj393 Nice hasbara.
Mouin is all "I don't know the answer, I'd like to hear it" *grim smirk*
Wonderful moment. Not sure why people still give Destiny any oxygen anymore.
Because there are a lot of young and dumb people on the planet.
"You made my argument better than me... you said that they couldn't have done it at the bottom if it weren't also at the top!" 8:08
I keep hearing Super Dave Osborne when Norm gets loud
I'M NOT A PART OF THIS.
DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT YOU JUST SAID?!
@@Gen7486 lol
Don't ask him where he get's his ideas from.
excellent moderation 👍
It was intentional
Ima tell my kids this was Lil Dicky and Jerry Springer losing a debate
😂😂😂
Losing? What point did they lose on lol
In fairness, Norm sat politely through three and a half hours of bullshit before he lost his temper🤷🏻♂️
Then you obviously didn't watch it lol
This thing needs to be moderated lol
Lex is too busy espousing love lmfao
@@cmonman3639he’s making a mountain of money
You HAVE to regulate mics and over speaking. It's beyond annoying. That one guy not answering questions and being smug and everyone needs to be allowed to speak at lengths and then allowed to be answered at lengths. Love love love the format.
this was a 5 hour long episode. i imagine you’re talking about finklestein? if so, tbf destiny had provided zero value for most of it and was actively being taught things during this debate. it’s unfortunately a 2v1😂
to follow this, destiny was genuinely misunderstanding concepts and conversations throughout. he genuinely shouldn’t have been here
Norm dodging any question proved just how baseless his claims are.@@itsbohrk
He didn't dodge one question. Destiny cherry-picking one quote from South Africa's ICJ case saying it was deceptive (it actually wasn't anyway) in order to dismiss the veracity of the entire case was beyond pathetic. Just because you talk fast while nervously shaking and pretending to check off facts on a piece of paper doesn't make you an authority. Destiny was shook.@@Neon-jn3sp
@@itsbohrkyeah it wasn’t as if Destiny was the one who taught Finkelfraud about the duolo specialis part and not the mens rea that Finkelfraud said 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
What episode of curb your enthusiasm is this?
Palestinian chicken
@fritznovak4482 "did I just hear her say she's going to f*ck the jew out of you?"
This is such a dumb comparison. It doesn’t even make sense
What stands out to me is how succinct and measured the pro-Palestine side speaks their minds, versus how extremely fast and animated the pro-Israel side speaks theirs. Prof. Finkelstein gets a bit loud when he’s irritated at the idiocy of Destiny, but Destiny and Mr Morris keep that extremely quick and jittery tempo almost the entire debate. It’s almost like they’re both anxious to say anything, everything, and as much as they can to defend wanton, indiscriminate murder and land grabs. Maybe they think that if they overwhelm the room with word vomit, the nastiness of what they’re saying will be lost in the translation.
Biggest joke: Destiny wants to educate Mr. Finkelstein 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Dude didn't even know who the PM of Israel was 2 months ago lol
i dont even know why destiny is in the debate to begin with lmao
Even bigger joke: the so-called intellectual has to resort to name calling a streamer to win an argument
@raccoonduck5406 Awww another sad DGGer? 😂
@@raccoonduck5406 Listen a bit more closely to the conversation, Destiny makes several mistakes in just a few minutes. Here an example: At 3:40 he quotes the UN saying "While the vast majority of protesters acted in a peaceful manner…" but at 4:18 he criticizes Norm for referring to the march as "mostly peaceful" as if it's false and ridiculous. 38 seconds apart...
Unlike Bach fugues, debates work better when there is only one voice at a time.
That's because a Bach fugue is infinitely more sophisticated than this BS.
Remember that a Fugue was composed by one voice
@TheTeeProd *phrase I believe
One of the most pretentious comments I've ever read on RUclips tbh
@@WillyJunior I am devastated my comment didn't earn your approval.
Nobody is better for having watched that.
I stopped watching after reading this comment.
That is the goal of Zionist defenders. They make sure such debates collapse, especially with experts, so you never hear the truth. You end up thinking it's just an unsolvable, contentious issue but it's not. Ethnic cleansing and ethnostates are inherently evil.
Norm absolutely hates the fact that a chipmunk like Destiny is in this debate
Especially when he calls out Norm on all his bullshit. Think norm needs to up his book reading comprehension.
@@gtlogic6023 So you also agree that Destiny is a chipmunk. Good.
@@67y3j3fv2wg don’t care what destiny is. Be more mindful of frauds like Norm that rely on sleazy appeals to authority to make their points.
@@gtlogic6023 Norm is a political scientist and a researcher of the Holocaust and the Israeli Palestinian conflict. He is also an author and a university lecturer. In other words, he has spent decades studying and researching these two topics and also lecturing at universities on the subjects. I'm not sure which part of that you think is sleazy though. What are Destiny's credentials on the subjects? I don't know if you have spent some time learning and researching something and knowing it really well and then having some guy challenging you on your craft based on stuff he read about it on Wikipedia. Also, and most importantly, Norm is an activist for the rights of Palestinian people. He probably has been that for as long as Destiny has been alive. Destiny is a very arrogant and ignorant chipmunk and I don't blame Norm for losing his 💩.
@@gtlogic6023 Norm is a researcher, scholar and activist. His fields of study are the Holocaust and the Israeli Palestinian conflict. Destiny was no match for him here, no wonder he got annoyed by his presence.
Who is Mr Parelli?
hes was in Fame wasn;'t he ? Played keyboards
Destiny
Finkledicks arch nemesis
Mr Petrucci ?
@@wooshylooshyBut that is a girls name?
Lex: Guys, please don't get me demonetized.
So much for the love of humanity and truth
Chef Finkelstein to Destiny... how would you like that a$$ (pause) medium-well or well done?
Destiny to Chef Finkelstein... well done chef!
Potentially interesting tactic by Morris at 3:00. He interrupts Finkelstein by saying that he is willing to concede the point and tells him he doesn't have to go any further. He feels uncomfortable with Finkelstein laying out all the facts on record because he knows they are not favorable to his position and so prefers that they not be advertised to the audience. Rabbani shrewdly picked up in this tactic and quickly said he does not know about this case and wants to hear more, even though he is most likely very familiar with it.
I love how they're arguing that the Israeli airforce is super precise and organised, meanwhile Israeli news outlets have reported that the helicopter pilots on October 7 were joining WhatsApp groups to figure out what to target 😂
They're still financed by the US, they have an unlimited budget to buy war machines
that's a self own for the IDF stooges
They also killed kids from the rave. That was deliberate???
The same helicopter pilots who admit that they might have killed many civilians from that battle
I don't see how them being unorganised during an invasion is gonna be the same as the organization when planning attacks but ok
Moderator failure. He should have told Density to shut up and let Norman speak.
What episode of The Bear is this?
COUSIN