I'm glad Happy said no. If you pay attention to the characters enough, that showed the danger of the move more than anything else beforehand. If the dude who they literally got because he is well connected and is down with ANYTHING, and is ready to handle ANYTHING, says no to a deal vote, NO WAY is it a good thing. I knew everything would go bad the minute he said that 💯
I watched this episode high when it aired... When Clay said ill slit your throat... That shit sounded real... That was also a time we seen him as strong and not broken
and now we know why he voted no. he joined samcro because he screwed felipe's job in mayans (only killed ez and angel's mom) and was afraid about blowback from mexico (the hit likely came from the galindo cartel) it was also the reason he stopped being a nomad (he didn't feel safe anymore riding alone)
I wish Maureen never sent those letters. I know she meant well but, man, imagine Jax finally getting out and living a peaceful life with his wife and children, the way it should have been. The club was a lost cause anyway.
It was more the letters than this vote. Piney's death caused the horrible domino effect stemming from the letters that destroyed everything. Miles and Kozak were really the 2 casualties from this vote.
tigs daughter was his own fault...that was on his own head and really had nothing to do with his loyalty to clay, it wasn't until clay lost his power and was exposed that tig had no choice but to fall under jax and abandon clay...
That's what bothered the hell out of me right after Jax, him, and Chibbs watched the homeboys cave in Opie's skull in the hole. "You will support my every move and never vote against me again" is what Jax said to him, and although throughout the entire 5th season, Jax made it look like he was going to set Tig up to be killed off by Pope and then the beginning of the 6th season by Marks, surprisingly he recognized Tig to be one of the guys. Hell, he was even okay with Tig being the next VP when stepping down; Chibbs would have simply chosen someone else, like Happy, if Jax would've disapproved.
BraceInc that’s different because Chibs didn’t make the deal, he jus wanted to keep his wife and daughter safe and was very worried that something bad happened
@@bri1317 What he's talking about is Happy's life as a Nomad hitman landed him in some hot water with the cartel after a failed hit. To lay low he went to Charming and patched onto SAMCRO. Later the Club brings a deal to work with the cartel to which Happy was against. It was a shock at the time to see a ruthless killer like Happy say he dosen't wanna mess with the Cartel but after revealing in Mayans he wanted to stay away from them it all makes more sense
Yes it was every one was on good hand until this vote happen everything before it was good they had a good relationship when the cartel happen everyone flip
Totally was. Even if the immediate consequences of this vote were not present at the end of the show, it was this vote that paved the road for blood and mayhem. Both Clay and Jax wanted a quick road to get out (Clay for age, Jax because he was naive enough to think the cartel would be a quick way for his family to get out (five times the risk for only half the the time in the club)). They could have survived the RICO case if that was their one and only obstacle- but that was the least of their worries because of that- truly the beginning of the end.
+Kyle Cap to right mate, the outcome of this vote can be traced to the death of so many members, clay, piney, Opie, miles, juice, kozik, Bobby, Phil and v-Lin can all be traced back to it
+carmageddon This vote isn't traced to half of the deaths you mentioned. Clay got killed because of his traitorous actions against so many members. Piney got killed because he wouldn't let go of the past. Opie got killed because of Tig. Juice got killed for simply being stupid. Chibs proved that when he asked what was on his birth certificate. By extension, Miles got killed because of Juice being stupid and working for the police when he didn't have to. Bobby got killed because Jax didn't give two-shits about who died so long as he avenged Tara. Phil and V-Lin got killed because Jax tried ending the relationship with the Irish. Too much credit is given to this cartel vote. Kozik is really the only one who got killed because they had to deal with an actual cartel problem.
+TJC0507 I always thought that Miles's death coincided with the cartel vote, the police had Intel that the sons were working for the cartel which made them put the pressure on juice to steal the cartels Coke brick, which Miles caught him with, reading into it though yeah you're right regarding the vote tracing back,
Out of the 11, Clay is the only that wanted it. Jax did it to get out, Tig did it because he's clays right hand, Opie did it to back Jax which therefore made Miles vote that way and Kozik only voted yes because the P and VP did, pretty mental if you think about that way...
+NetherNo Twisting Actually not. Too much credit is being given to this vote. The bigger picture has more to deal with each member and how they interact with one another. Their own personal decisions have brought the club to the brink of collapse. It's each member and the stupid decisions that they made from time to time that crushed the club. Jax's decision alone to try and break away from the Irish was the closest that the club actually got to being annihilated. Had they stayed in that club house, Redwood would cease to exist.
What you say is quite true but it doesn't invalidate my point. At the end of season 3, once Jimmy and Stahl are both dead the club has no more problems to deal with and everyone is happy. Since they decided to work with the Galindo cartel they never have been able to restart everything from scratch again. All the Cartel/CIA/RICO/IRA bullshit that occured during S4 and S5 had a tremendous psychologic impact on many members, it destroyed their capacity of judgment and trust. The IRA problem you described wouldn't have happened if Clay would have remained on his president chair. But he ultimately lost it by starting the deal with the mexican cartel, even if we take the Tara problem into account. This vote is definitely one of the most important scene of the entire series, but at that time, no one knows what shit is going to happen, hence the fact that we tend to forget it.
+NetherNo Twisting It does invalidate your point. The club had no problems? They're criminals. They would always have problems. What about the Russian problem? Who would have taken care of that? Your attempt at making everything appear as if it was going to be smooth sailing is deceiving. They wouldn't have been able to start from scratch with or without the cartel at that point. The cartel removed some of the obstacles, however. Still, the SOA had not been able to restart do to multiple factors, more credible to their own stupidity and lack of rational decision-making. What made Clay lose the chair was the past. Did the cartel write John's letters? You couple the past with the Russian problem and the club still enough opportunity to screw itself even further. What about after the club was done with the cartel? At that point, did it still not have a chance to "restart everything from scratch again", as you put it? It did, but it didn't. Once again, it is the club's own lack of rational thinking that creates its own problems.
What everyone is saying is that this is the moment that started the chain reaction of club's downfall. Like NetherNoTwisting said: ever since this vote nothing was ever ok.
Ok people, there isn’t just one factor that played into the club going down. There was numerous factors that played in together. Ppl need to stop saying one thing was reason for the club going down
@@Kornhyto I respectfully disagree. Getting out of guns was the clubs destiny, but going into a drug business with a Mexican Cartel (Also a CIA cover up Op) was what truly destroyed the majority of the redwood originals.
Many people saying this was the beginning of the end but truth be told, they were screwed when Clay was approached by the cartel. The cartel was working with the feds, so they were going to prison regardless.
@@charlesspeights8876 ya but what happened was Clay killed Piney over the letters they got cause they went to Belfast, and Opie shot Clay causw of Piney & Donna, and Tig tried to run down Laroy because Clay and Jax lied and said Black shot him. However this vote also fucked them big time once they found out the cartel was CIA.
@@eichorsttornhill6912Happy was hired as a hit man for the cartel but he failed to kill both of Ez’s parents leaving Ez’s father alive. Ez wanted revenge and chased Happy which Happy thought was a clean up guy for the Cartel coming to kill him for failing to kill Felipe. That’s why he joined Samcro because he didn’t feel safe as a nomad. This explains why he voted no to dealing with the cartel
It's weird to hear happy say he's sorry. Interesting that his character never had any conversations with anyone that lasted no more than a few sentences.
Joe Amazon Yeah that's one of the aspects that made this show inferior to some of the Titans imo. They completely ignored a very interesting character that most of the audience was curious about in favor of stupid characters no one cared for.
They gave small things on happy to just let you know he was another tig just without the blind loyalty to clay...He was just a killer ready to do anything the club needed done but actually said no which was supposed to catch everyone’s attention
Joe Amazon the reason he said sorry was because he actually thought it was good for the club, but 10 years before he took on a huge an job for the Galindo cartel and fucked it up, and the son of who he did kill came after him but he thought the son was the cartel so he patched into redwood, later the son that came after him actually became a member of the Mayans.
In many ways, this 4- minute scene tells you everything you need to know about the series and its main characters. Beginning with Gemma The manipulitve reigning queen SAMCRO, seen here uncharacteristically objecting to Clay’s decision to go down this path on what appears to be on the grounds of moral outrage and going against everything her club stands for. However, in a slightly less nuanced fashion is hypocritically stunned that Clay kept this from her believing that her role in the club extends beyond being just an old lady. In a sense Clay’s response to her is, in its own right, justified. Not only is she not a member, but has zero right to tell anyone about honesty or the sanctity of the monster she herself help create and the beast she continues to nurture- through violence, deception, and cold-heartedness under the guise of motherhood. Believe it or not, the actual votes on the other hand are not as complicated to access. Clay, the show’s eventual primary antagonist alongside Gemma, votee Yei out of shear greed and purely in the interest of his own financial welfare upon his eventual departure as President. Jax’s Yei vote stems what he believes is the best course for his family, but knows that, to Bobby’s earlier warning, it would kill SAMCRO. Believing Jax’s vote to be justified evil, at the beginning of the scene he manipulates his best friend into believing this is nothing more than means to a new beginning for SAMCRO. Which brings us to Opie. Like his father and best friend, Opie is smart and holds very similar moral convictions as to what he believes is right for his club and his family. But appears to see a much greater picture in spite of his confident, but naive vision that he and Jax will soon run the Club as JT envisioned that he and Jax will soon take over. Tig, who basically always voted unrepentantly in favor of Clay, does so here but in an almost contemptuous, borderline disgusted way. He is confident in his YES vote, but as we ultimately begin to see the human side of Tig Traeger, we are given a glimpse in this moment that he is more than just a loyal righthand to Clay. Chibs, on the other hand, plainly states his feelings of distrust toward Galendo and blankly votes NO, not necessarily due to his love for the club, but his natural instinct and intelligence that associating with a drug cartel is nothing but bad news. Bobby’s NO vote aligns similar to that of Chib’s; only we all know from the very beginning that his measured, “brains before bullets” mentality comes from the love for his Club. Happy is depraved, violent, and downright crazy but in this instance, you see him wanting to vote YES but apologetically votes NO, giving us an insight as to why he was ultimately better suited to be the SA over Tig. Miles’s vote is pretty predictable. The newest member and protege to Opie, votes Yes in favor of his sponsor. You can almost see the anger and resentment in Piney’s NO vote because like Bobby, knows that the Club he founded is heading down its darkest path yet. Although Juice’s NO vote is the right one, he casts it strictly out of fear as he is the Club’s undisputed coward. Cozich’s YES vote, which could have split the ranks and resulted in a majority rule deciding against the cartel, is probably the most surprising- he is a recovering drug addict but nonetheless is willing to stand behind Club’s highest ranking officers. The tension of in the room is undeniable, from the dimly lit atmosphere to the tragic requiem heard in the music, making this SAMCRO’s most consequential vote to date and arguably the most pivotal scene in the series.
@@DenzelLN936 Nobody asked you to read. I got something out of it. Not watched it for 5 years, had forgotten finer details & nuance. This reminded me and put some context into the narrative.
The Chucky thing is starting to make more sense, Jemma is dead and Tig is Vice President. Probably had no more use for him around. Chucky says he's still hoping for a family. As for the gun thing the club probably still has a lot of enemies. Happy says they're "in transition". Sutter probably wants to make that the main conflict in a future Sons show
Jerry G he didn’t get fired lol, he stepped down willingly. Sutter no longer wanted to be fully involved in the Mayans MC cause he’s a “white guy” meaning he didn’t want to be involved in the show at an executive level cause he wanted people who knew the Latino culture, to make the show more authentic. Kurt Sutter created the SOA world. No Way In Hell FX Would Fire Him..
opie - its you and me sitting at the head of that table oh the ending we all wish we got. but too happy, too perfect, too unrealistic. RIP all our outlaw brothers and sisters we lost in the struggle
Realistic question, if 11 guys vote yes and 1 guy votes no, is that 1 no guy going to catch shit? Hes not going along with the crew, etc. ? Especially when dealing with illegal activities, It would seem hes singling himself out to be a problem. You want everyone on the same page when doing illegal stuff. So I just wonder about that, if its a safe democracy or not. Are you truly free to vote how you want, or do you have to be careful making your opinions known
@@brodhax6148 In the show, if you are at the table, you are expected to vote honestly. If you vote no on something, and your side loses, you still do your job out of respect for the vote. You go with your brothers whether you agree or not.
@@chand911 I do understand that you do your job, even if you disagree with it. But my bigger question is, if you are the ONLY person at the table to vote no (everyone else votes yes), does that put a target on your back? Because when you are dealing with illegal activities, you need everybody onboard. If anybody is going to be a rat, itll be the guy who voted No. Know what I mean
I have watch this series completely through many times and I still honestly believe that if it had been Jax and Opie sitting at the head of the table. Things would not have gone nearly as bad. Opie was always Jax’s counter balance, he would have helped steer him to do better.
Not after Jax started lying to Opie though, I personally think after clay killed piney that was it for Opie, first Donna, jax lying and clay killing piney...Opie was on the deep end and my opinion he should've shot jax and killed clay
any type of organized crime is the worst thing anyone could get involved with, it puts everyone you love at risk & u stay involved long enough your bound to pay the price, so yeah this was the beginning of the end for samcro.
Kozik flipped the numbers here. And he was immediately killed in the mine field. These votes are my favorite part of the series. It's like watching Survivor, Kozik gave Jax and Clay the number they needed and bam he's gone. His only purpose in the series was that number, they even edited in some Kozik/Tig beef about some dog no one cared about to try to make the audience care. Lmao
When happy said no he knew the cartel were around the corner after what he did to EZ and angels mom makes sense now, I’ve watched SOA 6 times it’s that good 👍🏽
Its weird seeing this, now knowing that only Tig, Chibs, and Happy lived till the end. At the time, my guess would have easily been that Jax and Opey would be the ones to survive. Who knew that the 2 most ruthless and dangerous members would be 2 of the last 3 standing (Tig and Happy)
All those faces and acting!! This scene is EPIC!!! My favourite lines : "I dont trust them... No!!" / "Six to five, Passes" 🙌🙌🙌 and Jax's nervous fingerplay!!!👏👏 Well done boys! Well done
Vb3vbb3vv3 b3 bw bwbhw hw bwvve he b2. E b3 b3 h3 b2 h2 b2 b3 b3 b3 b3 b3 be be hs vs be be be be b eb3 gvb be be be bebh3 h3 h b b3 br b3 b3 g3 b3 b3 v3 b3 hwbh2v 2b2 nnrnvrv3vb3 b3 b3 b3 b2 b2 b2 h2. N
So dumb, sure it passed, but only cuz Jax convinced Op and Kozik to flip, and the new guy being unable to really make his own choice, so it was really 7-3 against.
Every comment so far has already gave every reason why this scene is awesome. I've only got one more to add... This is the ONLY scene in the SERIES I can think of where Mr. Ron Perlman used the EXACT voice he used for Slade from Teen Titans (while threatening Piny). And it was awesome to hear 'Slade' use R-rated dialogue.
Fiction being as it may. Clay Morrow would knife his own mother in her back to get what he wants. The Club should have seen this with Clay long ago. Clay was against ever going legit, even in the early 90s when JT was boss and Jax and Ope were shorties.
You can kinda understand Happy's vote even without watching Mayans. Happy was a ruthless, violent psychopath but you have to be a special kind of crazy to associate with a Cartel, knowing what they do and how they do it. It's not your typical drug dealer in the street, the Cartel are ruthless psychopaths that came straight out of a horror movie, what they do to those who cross them even in a insignificant way is horrible. Who knows what would happen to the club if the "No" won and they had to stop the deal, the Galindo Cartel wouldn't be happy about it and retaliation was assured.
Greed was Clay's cardinal sin, and that led to his downfall. Greed led him to kill JT and keep the Sons in gun running. Greed is what led him to getting them into drugs and dividing them.
+ Kyle Cap This vote is given too much credit for how the sons "died". There are other factors that better explain any particular death that transpired.
2011, the last great year for SAMCRO. Cartel not only killed the club, it set in motion the death of the show. Seasons 1 & 2 were the shows epic peak. Season 3, in my opinion, nowhere near as bad as most fans say. Season 4 was very good, but the show became a never-ending, poorly written cycle of violence starting with Season 5 in 2012. Watching this show every Tuesday night for the first 4 years was a real treat.
There’s a lot of stuff to learn from this vote . The moment you start pretending and start giving yourself a false hope that everything is cool and it’s gonna workout the way you want, you’re a deadman . 😢
Especially with Lincoln Potter setting up the fucking RICO Case. he was able to go full psychological warfare on them. Like the whole Bobby and Luana Otto situation. Getting Juice to steal the kilo (dogshit writing with the whole juice situation honestly)
Opie chose to do what he did with her. So did Jax. She didn’t force him. Tara has every right to hit her, but Jax, no. I remember when this scene came out, female fans applauding him for this, which was very unsettling.
Everyone saying that this is the vote that ended the club, but the deal was already stroked..... if the outcome was no from this vote then everyone at that table and their families would be slaughtered the next day either from the cartel or the Russians. What I love about SOA is that every development is a series of events that lead up to something, making it seem inevitable. What really killed SAMCRO was Clay’s greediness and Maureen Ashby’s letters
Love opie, chibs and piney. Opie was one of the sweetest guys on the show, someone i would always stand back to back with. Jax and opie would have been the best pres, and v.p. thier could have been.
Season 3 they were a family, loved eachother, went to belfast looking for Jax's son because they all loved him and again eachother, season 4 this vote shattered and poisoned SAMCRO and everything got worse and worse and wors as the episodes and seasons gone by
U knew so something was not good when Happy said No. Dudes down for anything.
I'm glad Happy said no. If you pay attention to the characters enough, that showed the danger of the move more than anything else beforehand. If the dude who they literally got because he is well connected and is down with ANYTHING, and is ready to handle ANYTHING, says no to a deal vote, NO WAY is it a good thing. I knew everything would go bad the minute he said that 💯
I watched this episode high when it aired... When Clay said ill slit your throat... That shit sounded real... That was also a time we seen him as strong and not broken
Good observation!
and now we know why he voted no.
he joined samcro because he screwed felipe's job in mayans (only killed ez and angel's mom) and was afraid about blowback from mexico (the hit likely came from the galindo cartel) it was also the reason he stopped being a nomad (he didn't feel safe anymore riding alone)
@@ScumbagKazuela SPOILERS DUDE szn 2 isnt on hulu yet, sheesh
Chibs always voted the right way
Chibs and Bobby were the wise ones.
Chibs was my favorite character.
Kirsten Hutchison I’d go for Nay along with Chibs, Piney, Juice, Bobby and Happy
Bobby and Chibs were the smartest
@@Mandalorian_Goblinslayer nah juice was weak
The two things that killed Samcro: Maureen Ashby’s letters and this vote
What really killed SAMCRO was the death of JT
Laoch I’m saying that everything that happened to SAMCRO was like a karma effect of what happened to JT
Jax still managed to escape from this situation. Gemma's lies are the ones that killed Samcro.
I wish Maureen never sent those letters. I know she meant well but, man, imagine Jax finally getting out and living a peaceful life with his wife and children, the way it should have been. The club was a lost cause anyway.
It was more the letters than this vote.
Piney's death caused the horrible domino effect stemming from the letters that destroyed everything.
Miles and Kozak were really the 2 casualties from this vote.
It all started to fall apart from here. This is what killed The Sons.
Keep your enemies close is a code ,this club didn't believe in. Tell me I'm wrong.
They are still active though, just not doing illegal shit anymore
MadMongol Metalhead yep Miles and Kozik died voting for this cartel
Clay killed Piney and made it appear as cartel retaliation
The rest died due to Jax working with an even worse adversary in August Marks. Miles and Kozik died due to this vote.
Kozik was essentially the deciding vote, and then he died almost immediately after it.
R.I.P. to a true Son
So did opie.
Tig was as loyal to clay as anyone could be..until clay gave him no choice..
after pope torched his daughter alive Tig had realized what kind if chain reaction Clay's lie had caused
tigs daughter was his own fault...that was on his own head and really had nothing to do with his loyalty to clay, it wasn't until clay lost his power and was exposed that tig had no choice but to fall under jax and abandon clay...
That's what bothered the hell out of me right after Jax, him, and Chibbs watched the homeboys cave in Opie's skull in the hole.
"You will support my every move and never vote against me again" is what Jax said to him, and although throughout the entire 5th season, Jax made it look like he was going to set Tig up to be killed off by Pope and then the beginning of the 6th season by Marks, surprisingly he recognized Tig to be one of the guys. Hell, he was even okay with Tig being the next VP when stepping down; Chibbs would have simply chosen someone else, like Happy, if Jax would've disapproved.
but tiggs realized later he made the right choice.
Chibs was always the smartest guy in the room
Chairman Meow I’d vote Nay along with Chibs, Bobby, Piney, Happy and Juice
Not really, remember when he was almost gonna work with ATF to rat Jimmy O
BraceInc that’s different because Chibs didn’t make the deal, he jus wanted to keep his wife and daughter safe and was very worried that something bad happened
Bobby was
Hernan Navarro I'd go with both of them. They were veterans in that world who kept a clear head
Watching Happy vote "No" after seeing him on Mayans explain why he patched into SAMCRO after the cartel hit makes this scene even better.
Faxxx
Fr bro now it makes sense his face when he says no
@@bri1317 What he's talking about is Happy's life as a Nomad hitman landed him in some hot water with the cartel after a failed hit. To lay low he went to Charming and patched onto SAMCRO. Later the Club brings a deal to work with the cartel to which Happy was against. It was a shock at the time to see a ruthless killer like Happy say he dosen't wanna mess with the Cartel but after revealing in Mayans he wanted to stay away from them it all makes more sense
Yess💯
brandon myers that totally explained why Happy left NOMAD and joined SAMCRO
Beginning of the end for the Sons
Yellow King this definitely wasn’t the beginning lol
Yes it was every one was on good hand until this vote happen everything before it was good they had a good relationship when the cartel happen everyone flip
Totally was. Even if the immediate consequences of this vote were not present at the end of the show, it was this vote that paved the road for blood and mayhem. Both Clay and Jax wanted a quick road to get out (Clay for age, Jax because he was naive enough to think the cartel would be a quick way for his family to get out (five times the risk for only half the the time in the club)). They could have survived the RICO case if that was their one and only obstacle- but that was the least of their worries because of that- truly the beginning of the end.
Ten two it was the beginning of the end
But then again jax got them out of guns set them sort of straight but people still died
Only 3 people at that table would live to the end of the series
Only 1 of them voted yes on this vote
carmageddon it was the vote that ended the redwood them
+Kyle Cap to right mate, the outcome of this vote can be traced to the death of so many members, clay, piney, Opie, miles, juice, kozik, Bobby, Phil and v-Lin can all be traced back to it
carmageddon Tig
+carmageddon This vote isn't traced to half of the deaths you mentioned. Clay got killed because of his traitorous actions against so many members. Piney got killed because he wouldn't let go of the past. Opie got killed because of Tig. Juice got killed for simply being stupid. Chibs proved that when he asked what was on his birth certificate. By extension, Miles got killed because of Juice being stupid and working for the police when he didn't have to. Bobby got killed because Jax didn't give two-shits about who died so long as he avenged Tara. Phil and V-Lin got killed because Jax tried ending the relationship with the Irish. Too much credit is given to this cartel vote. Kozik is really the only one who got killed because they had to deal with an actual cartel problem.
+TJC0507 I always thought that Miles's death coincided with the cartel vote, the police had Intel that the sons were working for the cartel which made them put the pressure on juice to steal the cartels Coke brick, which Miles caught him with, reading into it though yeah you're right regarding the vote tracing back,
Out of the 11, Clay is the only that wanted it. Jax did it to get out, Tig did it because he's clays right hand, Opie did it to back Jax which therefore made Miles vote that way and Kozik only voted yes because the P and VP did, pretty mental if you think about that way...
Mc politics.... That's why it's best to just ride solo 😂
It's mostly about that.
Get more people on your side, be dominant on the table.
what is funny is that we tend to forget that this was THE vote who absolutely crushed the club from S4 to last season
NetherNoTwisting I agree 100%
+NetherNo Twisting Actually not. Too much credit is being given to this vote. The bigger picture has more to deal with each member and how they interact with one another. Their own personal decisions have brought the club to the brink of collapse. It's each member and the stupid decisions that they made from time to time that crushed the club. Jax's decision alone to try and break away from the Irish was the closest that the club actually got to being annihilated. Had they stayed in that club house, Redwood would cease to exist.
What you say is quite true but it doesn't invalidate my point. At the end of season 3, once Jimmy and Stahl are both dead the club has no more problems to deal with and everyone is happy. Since they decided to work with the Galindo cartel they never have been able to restart everything from scratch again. All the Cartel/CIA/RICO/IRA bullshit that occured during S4 and S5 had a tremendous psychologic impact on many members, it destroyed their capacity of judgment and trust. The IRA problem you described wouldn't have happened if Clay would have remained on his president chair. But he ultimately lost it by starting the deal with the mexican cartel, even if we take the Tara problem into account. This vote is definitely one of the most important scene of the entire series, but at that time, no one knows what shit is going to happen, hence the fact that we tend to forget it.
+NetherNo Twisting It does invalidate your point. The club had no problems? They're criminals. They would always have problems. What about the Russian problem? Who would have taken care of that? Your attempt at making everything appear as if it was going to be smooth sailing is deceiving. They wouldn't have been able to start from scratch with or without the cartel at that point. The cartel removed some of the obstacles, however. Still, the SOA had not been able to restart do to multiple factors, more credible to their own stupidity and lack of rational decision-making. What made Clay lose the chair was the past. Did the cartel write John's letters? You couple the past with the Russian problem and the club still enough opportunity to screw itself even further. What about after the club was done with the cartel? At that point, did it still not have a chance to "restart everything from scratch again", as you put it? It did, but it didn't. Once again, it is the club's own lack of rational thinking that creates its own problems.
What everyone is saying is that this is the moment that started the chain reaction of club's downfall. Like NetherNoTwisting said: ever since this vote nothing was ever ok.
SoA still, has one of the best soundtracks throughout the series. Seasons 1-4 were amazing.
This is the most important vote in the entire show. The club was dead once that gavel slammed.
Trueeee, the shit that followed because of galindo and clays greed
Gemmas lies destroyed the club.
Ok people, there isn’t just one factor that played into the club going down. There was numerous factors that played in together. Ppl need to stop saying one thing was reason for the club going down
The most important was the out of guns
@@Kornhyto I respectfully disagree. Getting out of guns was the clubs destiny, but going into a drug business with a Mexican Cartel (Also a CIA cover up Op) was what truly destroyed the majority of the redwood originals.
Many people saying this was the beginning of the end but truth be told, they were screwed when Clay was approached by the cartel. The cartel was working with the feds, so they were going to prison regardless.
I love this scene so much. The table beeing so close to a split vote. Also the beginning of the decline for SAMCRO.
The decline was tig hitting popes daughter
@@jameswhite6384 it was this vote cause then t
Porter would have never fuck with Sam cro
@@charlesspeights8876 ya but what happened was Clay killed Piney over the letters they got cause they went to Belfast, and Opie shot Clay causw of Piney & Donna, and Tig tried to run down Laroy because Clay and Jax lied and said Black shot him. However this vote also fucked them big time once they found out the cartel was CIA.
Knowing Happy's backstory now makes this scene so much more potent
How? From Mayans M.c tv show?
@@eichorsttornhill6912Happy was hired as a hit man for the cartel but he failed to kill both of Ez’s parents leaving Ez’s father alive. Ez wanted revenge and chased Happy which Happy thought was a clean up guy for the Cartel coming to kill him for failing to kill Felipe. That’s why he joined Samcro because he didn’t feel safe as a nomad. This explains why he voted no to dealing with the cartel
My girlfriend actually had tears in her eyes after this vote. When I asked why, she told me Sons are going to die because of this. How right she was
I can only imagine her reaction to what happens to most of them down the road lol
5 of the 6 yeses died
My favourite scene in Soa. Everything perfect even the music. Beginning of the end.
It's weird to hear happy say he's sorry. Interesting that his character never had any conversations with anyone that lasted no more than a few sentences.
Joe Amazon Yeah that's one of the aspects that made this show inferior to some of the Titans imo. They completely ignored a very interesting character that most of the audience was curious about in favor of stupid characters no one cared for.
They gave small things on happy to just let you know he was another tig just without the blind loyalty to clay...He was just a killer ready to do anything the club needed done but actually said no which was supposed to catch everyone’s attention
Happy was a nut case!
Joe Amazon the reason he said sorry was because he actually thought it was good for the club, but 10 years before he took on a huge an job for the Galindo cartel and fucked it up, and the son of who he did kill came after him but he thought the son was the cartel so he patched into redwood, later the son that came after him actually became a member of the Mayans.
He was a vp for the Oakland HA I don’t think he had many lines due to the fact he’s not a actor with a lot of experience
The moment it all changed.
So many members signed their death certificates in this vote.
In many ways, this 4- minute scene tells you everything you need to know about the series and its main characters. Beginning with Gemma The manipulitve reigning queen SAMCRO, seen here uncharacteristically objecting to Clay’s decision to go down this path on what appears to be on the grounds of moral outrage and going against everything her club stands for. However, in a slightly less nuanced fashion is hypocritically stunned that Clay kept this from her believing that her role in the club extends beyond being just an old lady. In a sense Clay’s response to her is, in its own right, justified. Not only is she not a member, but has zero right to tell anyone about honesty or the sanctity of the monster she herself help create and the beast she continues to nurture- through violence, deception, and cold-heartedness under the guise of motherhood. Believe it or not, the actual votes on the other hand are not as complicated to access. Clay, the show’s eventual primary antagonist alongside Gemma, votee Yei out of shear greed and purely in the interest of his own financial welfare upon his eventual departure as President. Jax’s Yei vote stems what he believes is the best course for his family, but knows that, to Bobby’s earlier warning, it would kill SAMCRO. Believing Jax’s vote to be justified evil, at the beginning of the scene he manipulates his best friend into believing this is nothing more than means to a new beginning for SAMCRO. Which brings us to Opie. Like his father and best friend, Opie is smart and holds very similar moral convictions as to what he believes is right for his club and his family. But appears to see a much greater picture in spite of his confident, but naive vision that he and Jax will soon run the Club as JT envisioned that he and Jax will soon take over. Tig, who basically always voted unrepentantly in favor of Clay, does so here but in an almost contemptuous, borderline disgusted way. He is confident in his YES vote, but as we ultimately begin to see the human side of Tig Traeger, we are given a glimpse in this moment that he is more than just a loyal righthand to Clay. Chibs, on the other hand, plainly states his feelings of distrust toward Galendo and blankly votes NO, not necessarily due to his love for the club, but his natural instinct and intelligence that associating with a drug cartel is nothing but bad news. Bobby’s NO vote aligns similar to that of Chib’s; only we all know from the very beginning that his measured, “brains before bullets” mentality comes from the love for his Club. Happy is depraved, violent, and downright crazy but in this instance, you see him wanting to vote YES but apologetically votes NO, giving us an insight as to why he was ultimately better suited to be the SA over Tig. Miles’s vote is pretty predictable. The newest member and protege to Opie, votes Yes in favor of his sponsor. You can almost see the anger and resentment in Piney’s NO vote because like Bobby, knows that the Club he founded is heading down its darkest path yet. Although Juice’s NO vote is the right one, he casts it strictly out of fear as he is the Club’s undisputed coward. Cozich’s YES vote, which could have split the ranks and resulted in a majority rule deciding against the cartel, is probably the most surprising- he is a recovering drug addict but nonetheless is willing to stand behind Club’s highest ranking officers. The tension of in the room is undeniable, from the dimly lit atmosphere to the tragic requiem heard in the music, making this SAMCRO’s most consequential vote to date and arguably the most pivotal scene in the series.
calm the fuck down buddy lol
Goddamn man, bravo.
Nobody asked.
@@DenzelLN936 Nobody asked you to read. I got something out of it. Not watched it for 5 years, had forgotten finer details & nuance. This reminded me and put some context into the narrative.
Thoughtful & considered, thank you.
Mayans really adds a layer to Happy's vote, looking back
This voting scene was great.
Jax did all he could for the club to go legit, just to find out they’re still dealing guns after his death and dealt chucky away...
The Chucky thing is starting to make more sense, Jemma is dead and Tig is Vice President. Probably had no more use for him around. Chucky says he's still hoping for a family. As for the gun thing the club probably still has a lot of enemies. Happy says they're "in transition". Sutter probably wants to make that the main conflict in a future Sons show
Michael Jazz sutter got fired from Mayans MC show😩 hopefully they don’t mess up the SOA legacy with this new show
Jerry G he didn’t get fired lol, he stepped down willingly. Sutter no longer wanted to be fully involved in the Mayans MC cause he’s a “white guy” meaning he didn’t want to be involved in the show at an executive level cause he wanted people who knew the Latino culture, to make the show more authentic. Kurt Sutter created the SOA world. No Way In Hell FX Would Fire Him..
PATRICK www.google.com/amp/s/www.hollywoodreporter.com/amp/live-feed/kurt-sutter-fired-fx-being-an-abrasive-dick-1248492
PATRICK STAR yes he did get fired check the link my guy
The vote that began the downfall of SAMCRO and the only reason it passed is because Jax thought it would get him out in the end. If only he knew...
You can't escape the sins of your past
This show had its great episodes. The one when they kill Agent Stahl was one of the best episodes of any show I’ve ever seen. 10/10
opie - its you and me sitting at the head of that table
oh the ending we all wish we got. but too happy, too perfect, too unrealistic.
RIP all our outlaw brothers and sisters we lost in the struggle
Soooo epic music and the scene , couldnt stop re watching this
What a great show
The most powerful/decision making factor of a motorcycle club. The voting poll! Very inspirational. This is what democracy is all about.
Realistic question, if 11 guys vote yes and 1 guy votes no, is that 1 no guy going to catch shit? Hes not going along with the crew, etc. ? Especially when dealing with illegal activities, It would seem hes singling himself out to be a problem. You want everyone on the same page when doing illegal stuff. So I just wonder about that, if its a safe democracy or not. Are you truly free to vote how you want, or do you have to be careful making your opinions known
TJ Deluxe what were they voting about I haven’t got that far
@@brodhax6148 In the show, if you are at the table, you are expected to vote honestly. If you vote no on something, and your side loses, you still do your job out of respect for the vote. You go with your brothers whether you agree or not.
@@chand911 I do understand that you do your job, even if you disagree with it. But my bigger question is, if you are the ONLY person at the table to vote no (everyone else votes yes), does that put a target on your back? Because when you are dealing with illegal activities, you need everybody onboard. If anybody is going to be a rat, itll be the guy who voted No. Know what I mean
@@brodhax6148 no honor among thieves
I have watch this series completely through many times and I still honestly believe that if it had been Jax and Opie sitting at the head of the table. Things would not have gone nearly as bad. Opie was always Jax’s counter balance, he would have helped steer him to do better.
Not after Jax started lying to Opie though, I personally think after clay killed piney that was it for Opie, first Donna, jax lying and clay killing piney...Opie was on the deep end and my opinion he should've shot jax and killed clay
Jax partially went crazy cuz of Opie dying the way he did so yea i’d say it would have been a lot better lol
Opie was Jax's center and calm. Once he died, Jax died and destroyed everyone who had anything to do with Opie's death.
The vote that destroyed the sons.
Opie was the saddest character ..... had a good heart but a broken soul
He was very tragic. He had this deep sadness that you could see in his eyes and feel radiate off of him.
@@chandlerrose4545 Him, Otto, and Jax were the most tragic characters imo
@@CarnageAnarchist Otto and Jax made their beds.
That look Opie gave Miles looks like it scared him into saying "Yay"
I love music in this scene the epicness of Clay& Jaxs being on same page
You can’t openly vote like that around a table and not have hard feelings for each other
You can when you're a MAN and not a mincing faggot.
Adults can. If people cannot openly vote for what they believe is right without it becoming personal then there is no point in voting.
Tig was the only person to vote Yay and live to the end of the series. (Jax doesn’t count because he _does_ die)
@Iron Man if you don't know that by now... Watch the video Come Join The Murder by The White Buffalo
If Kozik said NO,all the tragedy could have been avoided! Kozik's vote meant the beginning of the end for SAMCRO!
@Sabrina Hutt you're a real SOA fan
@Sabrina Hutt no
The King made the wrong decision. If only you could turn back time,this the time you change that.
The way Bobby walks out of the club disappointed af. The walk and his face says how he feels about the outcome.
Definitely needs a rewatch from start to finish👌🏻. Addictive show.
I loved Ryan Hurst as Alison's brother on Medium but as Opie on SOA.....legendary.
any type of organized crime is the worst thing anyone could get involved with, it puts everyone you love at risk & u stay involved long enough your bound to pay the price, so yeah this was the beginning of the end for samcro.
I like the mayhem votes...all in favor of clay morrow meeting mr mayhem.....chibs aye lol shows classic
Chibs is my favorite character in SOA
It's insane how one could miss a show so much..
President Jax Teller, V. President Opie, Sgt. at Arms Chibs, and all it will be a good end for SAMCRO
Happy needs to be SAA
No because Jax wanted out in season 4.
Kozik flipped the numbers here. And he was immediately killed in the mine field.
These votes are my favorite part of the series. It's like watching Survivor, Kozik gave Jax and Clay the number they needed and bam he's gone. His only purpose in the series was that number, they even edited in some Kozik/Tig beef about some dog no one cared about to try to make the audience care. Lmao
Not true. He left the show due to scheduling commitments. Kurt wanted the actor to stay on the show.
Equally heavy, was Jax could’ve voted No there, and it wouldn’t have passed. Then none of the chaos and death that came with it would have happened.
Biggest mistake Clay made thought Jax wouldn't kill him
When happy said no he knew the cartel were around the corner after what he did to EZ and angels mom makes sense now, I’ve watched SOA 6 times it’s that good 👍🏽
Chibs was the one who played by the club's rules every single time.
Ron Pearlman acting circles around everybody
Chibs & Tig are the only two surviving members of Samcro now
Rat and TO also Queen
Its weird seeing this, now knowing that only Tig, Chibs, and Happy lived till the end.
At the time, my guess would have easily been that Jax and Opey would be the ones to survive.
Who knew that the 2 most ruthless and dangerous members would be 2 of the last 3 standing (Tig and Happy)
Despite All My Rage maybe thats the reason why they survived
China is pretty dangerous himself. Lol.
Of all the shows I've ever watched from week to week, this one was hands down the most captivating.
i thought The Shield was better. Sutter wrote on that as well. Check it out.
Song:Shooter Jennings-All of this
Muhammed Karabulut legend
Muhammed Karabulut thx man
Shooters got some good tunes out there, just found out about him recently
Adamsın Bayadır arıyordum şarkıyı
Thank you!!!!!!
Hard to believe that Opie is Bertier from Remember the Titans...
I know right, I was shocked
Sergeant Savage from We Were Soldiers!
Don’t forget saving private Ryan
Holy fucking shit...it was bugging me. I saw that face before.
How is it hard to believe? I knew who he was instantly.
All those faces and acting!! This scene is EPIC!!! My favourite lines : "I dont trust them... No!!" / "Six to five, Passes" 🙌🙌🙌 and Jax's nervous fingerplay!!!👏👏 Well done boys! Well done
Vb3vbb3vv3 b3 bw bwbhw hw bwvve he b2. E b3 b3 h3 b2 h2 b2 b3 b3 b3 b3 b3 be be hs vs be be be be b eb3 gvb be be be bebh3 h3 h b b3 br b3 b3 g3 b3 b3 v3 b3 hwbh2v 2b2 nnrnvrv3vb3 b3 b3 b3 b2 b2 b2 h2. N
When Ron Pearlman says that 6/5 line, his acting is just 🤌🤌🤌
I’m mad Opie didn’t become Vice President 😢
THis was a monumental vote for this show. Really set up the whole last few seasons.
The beginning of the end for SAMCRO
That table was full only 3 survived
I think this scene was when Piney made a decision: he would take Clay down or die trying. And we all know how that turned out
ya
So dumb, sure it passed, but only cuz Jax convinced Op and Kozik to flip, and the new guy being unable to really make his own choice, so it was really 7-3 against.
Ope should've been Jax' s V.P
Heat Nation oh men you didnt see the fate of Opie? :'v
I really would've liked to see how that played out.
I agree
Opie was looking for a way out since Donna's death. He was weak but he was strong.
@calvin The club had taken his wife and dad. I doubt anyone would've had their head on straight after that.
Every comment so far has already gave every reason why this scene is awesome. I've only got one more to add... This is the ONLY scene in the SERIES I can think of where Mr. Ron Perlman used the EXACT voice he used for Slade from Teen Titans (while threatening Piny). And it was awesome to hear 'Slade' use R-rated dialogue.
Oh for fuck sake he was slade?
Wtf I never realized that
@@jaydonthomas427 Yup! 3:09, exact voice.
Wow wild how the version of the cartel we hear about in this scene was established in myans mc show makes this show even better
Fiction being as it may.
Clay Morrow would knife his own mother in her back to get what he wants.
The Club should have seen this with Clay long ago. Clay was against ever going legit, even in the early 90s when JT was boss and Jax and Ope were shorties.
Now i know why Happy said no. He killed EZ's mom for the Gallindos and knew that might blow back on him.
You can kinda understand Happy's vote even without watching Mayans. Happy was a ruthless, violent psychopath but you have to be a special kind of crazy to associate with a Cartel, knowing what they do and how they do it. It's not your typical drug dealer in the street, the Cartel are ruthless psychopaths that came straight out of a horror movie, what they do to those who cross them even in a insignificant way is horrible. Who knows what would happen to the club if the "No" won and they had to stop the deal, the Galindo Cartel wouldn't be happy about it and retaliation was assured.
Clay was always the least loyal of them all, he always only thought about himself
Jax and clay were wrong for pushing this vote on the club and it was for they’re own personal reasons and the club never stopped suffering since
Tara is so beautiful in season 4
Man.. this was such a good fucking show!!!!
Goosebumps listening to opie talk about the future with Jax
Greed was Clay's cardinal sin, and that led to his downfall. Greed led him to kill JT and keep the Sons in gun running. Greed is what led him to getting them into drugs and dividing them.
Clay didn't kill JT. JT committed suicide like Jax did at the end.
They are a gang in reality they never ever would have gotten out
this is where the sons died
+ Kyle Cap This vote is given too much credit for how the sons "died". There are other factors that better explain any particular death that transpired.
@@TheBombayMasterTony You're wrong, this is where they died.
@@tren380 No, you're wrong. This vote is not where they died. Fact.
@@TheBombayMasterTony Incorrect.
@@tren380 You are incorrect, yes.
I liked Clay. He was just trying to hold the club together.
I did too but he killed the club with this vote
this is where it all went down hill
Kozik killed the Sons before getting himself killed the irony
Uh, what?
@@raulcampos4673 meaning he shouldnt have “backed his Prez and VP”
In the later seasons especially getting the club to mule coke for the cartel Clay was going full blown gangster
The was the death of the Clay era of Samcrow. Where everything would start to fall apart for him.
2011, the last great year for SAMCRO. Cartel not only killed the club, it set in motion the death of the show. Seasons 1 & 2 were the shows epic peak. Season 3, in my opinion, nowhere near as bad as most fans say. Season 4 was very good, but the show became a never-ending, poorly written cycle of violence starting with Season 5 in 2012. Watching this show every Tuesday night for the first 4 years was a real treat.
i agree it became stale towards the end . felt like watching the same thing over and over .
Kozik only voted "yes" because he wanted to make up to Jax for losing the guns.
There’s a lot of stuff to learn from this vote . The moment you start pretending and start giving yourself a false hope that everything is cool and it’s gonna workout the way you want, you’re a deadman . 😢
Best sound track for a show hands down...
And all the lies, all the bad moves and the distrust would become bigger and bigger after this.
Especially with Lincoln Potter setting up the fucking RICO Case. he was able to go full psychological warfare on them. Like the whole Bobby and Luana Otto situation. Getting Juice to steal the kilo (dogshit writing with the whole juice situation honestly)
Opie chose to do what he did with her. So did Jax. She didn’t force him. Tara has every right to hit her, but Jax, no. I remember when this scene came out, female fans applauding him for this, which was very unsettling.
This show was the greatest piece of TV drama ever made in my humble opinion
this was almost like modern day red dead redemption
Everyone saying that this is the vote that ended the club, but the deal was already stroked..... if the outcome was no from this vote then everyone at that table and their families would be slaughtered the next day either from the cartel or the Russians. What I love about SOA is that every development is a series of events that lead up to something, making it seem inevitable. What really killed SAMCRO was Clay’s greediness and Maureen Ashby’s letters
See? Rock and a hard place.
Love opie, chibs and piney. Opie was one of the sweetest guys on the show, someone i would always stand back to back with. Jax and opie would have been the best pres, and v.p. thier could have been.
1:23 is the first time we see Jax's "President" face that he would wear for 3 seasons afterwards.
I wish opie would've been able to sit at the head of the table
"All Of This Should Have Been, All This Could Been Ours" sooo fucking true! :(
Kozik was such a cool character his death was so unfair
Both of the Latinos in Samcro didn't wanna be in bed with the Mexican Cartel..... _that should friggin tell you something_ !
Well Yeah cause Mexican cartels are on another level of violence than most if not all duhh
Season 3 they were a family, loved eachother, went to belfast looking for Jax's son because they all loved him and again eachother, season 4 this vote shattered and poisoned SAMCRO and everything got worse and worse and wors as the episodes and seasons gone by
Chibs and Bobby is what was missing in mayans. They didn’t have those wise guys to say no to any dumb stuff they did.