Olympic Pistol Shooting with Keith Sanderson - USA Shooting Team
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- Опубликовано: 10 июл 2012
- NSSF's Bill Brassard discusses Olympic-style pistol shooting with USA Olympic Shooting Team member Keith Sanderson. Keith explains in detail each of the pistol events and provides a tip that we all can use to improving our shooting. (NSSF Video) #LetsGoShooting #NSSF
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I know this is a few years old but really enjoyable...two gentlemen talking about target shooting...nice.
Finally a shooting channel that is a real sport.
Good tips and info. I use small plastic drywall anchors (yellow) for dry fire practice with my 22lr pistols and rifles, to protect the firing pin.
It would have been nice if NBC would have covered this in 2021 Olympics.
I really enjoyed the examples you showed. I'd be interested in seeing the progress in the gun development over the ensuing years from this video.
they did I watch the rapid finals....china won..
@@lcasey6597 No lol, a French guy won (Jean Quiquampoix). They’ve actually surprisingly built a great rapid fire team, as another guy (Clement Bessaguet) is European champ and vice World Champ.
I'm liking this videos, thank you! I'm looking forward to watching all the shooting matches this year since they are putting them up online.
Wonderful! I learned a lot from this video.
What an interesting and enthusiastic guy...excellent.
great video!! Very informativ !!
Great info, great vid !
thanks. good and true advices
@dwerg85 There is a Rapid Fire Air Pistol, but not for Olympic Rapid Fire. Air guns are shot at 10 meters, Rapid Fire uses a 25 meter distance. Use to be 22 shorts, but now it's 22 Longs ... for a tiny bit more recoil.
Would have been nice to see close ups of the guns while he was explain them.
This is cool. Very good video.
I have a small collection of Russian competition guns.
Pistols --
TOZ-35M
Margolin 22short
Margolin 22LR
IZH-35
Rifles --
Ural
Ural-2
SM-2
Biathlon KO-7.2
TOZ-12
TOZ-18
That's a really nice collection you have there!
Question on the margolin 22 short pistol, which model is it?
Does it look like a hacksaw with the barrel down low where the ring finger is situated? It'd be so cool if you have one of those. This model was banned from competition as soon as it came out back in the 50s or 60s 😆
I remember when we set my team mate's smallbore rifle trigger down to around 15 grams and he had to raise the weight back up to over 28 grams minimum because he kept having a lot of problems with it slamfiring. Just closing the bolt was enough force to get the trigger to go off sometimes.
lol and yikes
What is perimeter of 10 m pistol trigger
Please tell
great vid, cool guy :-)
My dad was his boss and he fired him from the usar team for being a bad influence
The 25m rapid pistol is .22 LR I believe.
22 short
@@grossonicholas Not any longer, 22LR is used after 2004 in Olympic 25m Rapid Fire
@@perlarsson9350 Darn, I've still got a 22 short conversion kit for my High Standard Victor.
This may be a dumb question, but regarding the importance of dry firing: If you dry fire, how do you know how well you are aiming? There's no bullet, right? So, you work on your technique, but how do you actually improve your accuracy without firing bullets and hitting the target? Thanks.
Excellent information! Im sticking to IPSC though, I like loud bangs and fast action! :D
To each his own! :-)
I used to shoot USPSA but just goi g to the range is costly. Now I’m shooting air rifle and pistol IN MY CONDO! And it’s cheap
great!
nice video
I'd like to talk to keith,could really learn from him,anyone knows how to contact him ?
How to join?
Great video. I've never seen Olympic shooting. It looks so much fun. I understand his dry fire recommendation for getting better. However, I wonder if dry fire is better than live fire for practice when there is a lot more recoil to manage. A regular vs electronic trigger and recoil from a 9mm or even a . 22 induces motion that dry fire can't replicate. If anyone has any thoughts on this please let me know.
I think you'll find that most of the best shooters will stress the importance of dry fire. Practicing with recoil is really not helpful. It's better to practice with no recoil. It's better to train yourself not to anticipate recoil. No distractions from the gun going off, and no recoil. Concentrate on sight alignment, and trigger squeeze. And of course the front sight. P.S. I don't dry fire as much as I should.
I teach my students to balance a penny on the front sight. Try to squeeze the trigger without dislodging the penny. Work at trying to see how many times you can do it in a row.
It really works at improving your aim and ability to focus.
And it's cheap!
Do not dry fire rim fire guns.
Dry fire lets you see if you make any trigger mistakes - if your iron sights move or spring when the trigger clicks then you made a trigger mistake that would have lead to a targeting error.
The recoil of a life round would cover that movement of your sights in the moment the trigger clicks and so you cannot notize that error.
So dry fire trainig is for optimizing your trigger pulling.
@@allywilkeforsenate I have two .22 pistols both manufacturers say it is safe to dry fire them. Is there something Im missing?
Good 👍..
What is the lock time on the rapid fire pistol??
I doubt anyone measured the lock time on them. Theoretically, with the Pardini pistols, their electronic trigger versions have quicker lock time than the standard mechanical models. The electronic versions have been discontinued since early 2000s if I recall correctly due to its tendency to go full auto with one press of the trigger in humid climates or when not frequently cleaned as I was told. It's an engineering flaw that Pardini decided not to address or redesign. So this one that Keith Sanderson has here in his hands is a rare bird that is probably well-kept and most likely get the special gunsmithing treatment from Pardini USA (authorized American importer) because he's a top shot on the National team, so if his electronic Pardini goes BRRRRRRRP, they'll fix it free of charge 😆
What advise would you give for a junior training . Make of gun
John Bladykas if you are referring to model of the pistol I would suggest either a feinwerkbau aw-93 or a pardini sp.
@@zephyr9078 I agree these are the cream of the crop pistols for this sport. However..... John Bladykas is asking advice for beginning JUNIOR shooters. IMO both guns would be very expensive for a budding noob who may not even stick to this sports in the long run as it is NOT for everyone.... many have ditched this precision pistol target sport in favor of the fast paced 2 handed run and gun games. Also, the AW 93 has an inherently larger frame with grips that cannot be further reduced for smaller junior shooters and their smaller hands. If you don't mind, I'd suggest a Ruger Mark 1-4 series of pistols. They are dirt cheap ($300 USD vs. $2500+ of the top end pistols), and believe it or not the barrel is almost on equal terms in accuracy. And also, the thin small grip would fit kids better. JMO
Win the gold!
@TheTraumaFactor That is live rounds. Rapid fire .22
How do you train for quick recoil management when you only shoot 500 live rounds?
It's .22. The transition from target to target makes the recoil a non-issue I guess.
In the German-speaking countries we say:"The pistol/ gun shoots, the grip hits (the center)"
My pb on highschool free pistol was 567 and did that my senior year and we won state 3 years in a row. I was the highest average scoring shooter on my team and shot 2nd best score ever as a school record missed school record by 1 point. It's hard to even see the bullseye and target at we'll half a football field distance
Those pistols are very expensive.
I've always wanted a Hammerli, but it will remain a dream.
How much?
@@niasabbly953 Alot.lol My Pardini spe was about $900 in 1992 and now $1800?
@@oldgoat50 I bought my first Pardini SP back in '94 from Don Nygord in La Crescenta (RIP) for about $995 OTD IIRC, and HP 32 Smith & Wesson long for International Centerfire match a couple of years later for a few hundred bucks more...
Then around 2012, I bought the improved updated version for $2500 before taxes, shipping, and DROS fees lol.
To be frank, the new improved version is more refined and is a tad more accurate at 50 yards. The new gun likes yellow box Eley pistol match. I'm getting 10 shots group smaller than a dime at 50 yards when I plop down in prone position and shoot off a pistol rest with a good near parallax free red dot scope mounted on top, LOL.
The old 90s model can pretty much pepper the NRA B-8 1.5 in X ring with good ammo, but no way that gun can shoot dime-sized group, day in and day out, like the new model can .
BTW I bought the new Bullseye model SP that is maximized for 50 yards.
I shot my first ever NRA bullseye 50 yards slow fire match 100 out of 100 points with 6 X's 2 years ago with this gun and ammo combination. To me the price justifies the results, lol
IDPA should be in the olympics!
While I agree, part of the problem with the olympics is it is soo expensive only a handful of countries can actually afford to host.
If anything we probably need to scale back some.
I applaud your enthusiasm.
You're eager to introduce IDPA, our ('Murica's) most popular handgun shooting sports, to the mainstream global arena, through Olympics
However....
Along with IPSC, that scootin' and shootin' like a CQB operator clearing a room from the bad guys?
That'd would be a BIG No - It shouldn't be in the Olympics.
Nor should IPSC.
IIRC during the latter part of 1990s, IPSC tried to enter as a demonstration sports for the then upcoming 2004 Athens Olympics, but the deal fell through.
IOC citing it as too much like what I stated above.
And of course, ISSF/UIT, the Olympic Shooting Sanctioning/Governing Body since 1894, also rejected it, for the same reason if no other than seeing IPSC and anything similar as their rival competing for shooting sports' relevance in the Olympic Games.
Can't blame them really. ISSF's goal of staying politically correct with their bland, "impractical" courses of fire that are based on pure marksmanship with no "tacticool" underpinnings has its merits. Just about every country in existence at the moment are ISSF members, esp. the anti-gun nation (in the majority) where they view guns in general are instruments of killing but they will make exceptions for .177 pellets and .22LR precision machines fired one-handed only and at ridiculous target distances without having to draw from a holster.
Though I do appreciate the skills involved in IDPA and IPSC, one have to admit that these 2 practical sports are anything BUT about pure marksmanship and precision. IPSC and IDPA targets are way too frigging big, distance way too close - most targets are set at 3 to 15 yards.. And, courses of fire too much resembling a CQB operator clearing a room full of bad guys esp. when running and gunning is part of IDPA and IPSC's appeal.
Oh yeah, and there's that "power factor" requirement.
Power Factor was conceived from the get-go in the games of IPSC and IDPA as the required minimum level of lethality that the ammunition must meet in order to be sufficient enough to incapacitate the bad guys. If you as competitor don't shoot ammo that doesn't make Major, you get docked for points. If your ammo don't make minor power factor, then you're disqualified.
Doesn't sound too "Olympic" to me!
Olympics isn't in the business of training killers, even "good guys" killers of bad guys. I'm just a messenger, so please don't shoot me! ;-)
However, practical shooting sports DO have GREAT spectator appeal.
I'd pick an exciting IPSC or IDPA match to watch over Olympic pistol match (akin to watching paint dry)
And yes, this unabashedly, unapologetic opinion is coming from an action pistol shooter (Bianchi Cup NRA action pistol) ;-)
And many (outside of 'Murica) would agree!
+MrFlintlox I replied a day ago about IPSC's attempt to introduce IPSC (ACTION SHOOTING) into the Olympics, from my own recollection, however hazy at best.
Well, here's what I found on the internet. Nice read from the Violent Policy Center website (blech!)
www.vpc.org/studies/goldcont.htm
Have fun!
@@willywonka4340 while i believe that IPSC should be part of the Olympics, same as rapid fire pistol is part of the Olympics, but i see no reason that bug bore, (308) precision shooting shouldn't be part of the Olympic games
@@dogguy8603 big bore centerfire rifle event was indeed in the Olympics program prior to the 90s IIRC. Do a search on Olympic 3 position 300-meter rifle and 300M free rifle event. Malcolm Cooper of Great Britain Was a Olympic champ in the 90s in this event IIRC
So what pistols were those?
Kien Hui The 10m Air pistol I believe it's a Morini MOR-162MI (Old Version), the free pistol is a Russian TOZ-35 and the rapid fire pistol is a Pardini SP rapid fire pistol
Sorry my bad, the air pistol is a Pardini K10
rapid fire pistol is a firearm discipline. Those are .22 short or lr casings. Depends if he has a new or old weapon.
The slow fire ones use pellets.
paradini pistols, cost like $3k. pretty cool but hate that slacker style of stance. is that the best stance to achieve these shots?
The stance keeps your hips locked, preventing or rather limiting movement. I would hardly call it the "slacker" style.
Im sure there is a reason for it. Just wondering if its the best, didn't mean to offend.
I mean, hand in the pocket leaving back. Its just awkward to my eye. I'm sure in practice it has its benefits.
My non shooting hand is usually either on front belt loop or front pocket. This keeps your body in balance and less awkward than leaving your arm dangling not knowing where to put it. This position plus the hip lock is the best and most rigid position for bullseye shooting. Completely different than that IPSC, IDPA shooting competition.
Ray Rojas very cool. I would love to give this a shot (pardon the pun) im in AZ, but don't know a place that rents these types of pistols
9:04 whats being ejected out the side? It cant be casings because its using pellets...
The casing from the bullet. Google for ".22 long rifle"
at 5:49 this Russian Keith Sanderson mentioned who set the world record of 581 is no other than Mr. Alexander Melentiev. RIP he passed away a few years ago, reasons unknown to me. What I find interesting is that according to Keith he lived in L.A. until his death. Heck, I live in L.A.! lol.
That mark is extremely legendary, although you gotta remember that he probably felt REEEAL comfortable in that range (Dynamo Shooting Range) as he won the Spartakiade with a 576 a year earlier and he got a 578 at the Friendship Games 4 years earlier, which are scores he didn’t replicate at other ranges. I wonder if he practiced in that range a lot since Dynamo was the biggest club in the USSR at the time.
@@onetruehitman7623 Also there's a running rumor (at least here in the states IIRC) that since non-Soviet aligned country didn’t show up to 1980 Moscow Olympics due to boycott, what's not to say that Melentiev was on Beta-blockers? The UIT officials could easily have been paid off. lol
Remember, it's a rumor. 😄
There's a pic floating on the internet with Melentiev standing next to the 60 shot aggregate target he fired.
In that pic, his eyes looked stoned, 😵💫😵💫😵💫
😆.
Well, I'm not the one to judge 🤷♂️😸.
That 581 was incredible, regardless! RIP Alex M.
@@willywonka4340 You’re right, and actually I saw that picture a few times lmao, he definetly didn’t know what he was doing at taking that picturelh3.googleusercontent.com/_PVMqOPcgMtg/TdALDP6y-RI/AAAAAAAAF6s/Hnl4j3c2YQo/s1600/Anatoli_Poddubny_shooting_article_003.jpg
Talking about other legendary shooters, I kinda admire the longevity of Skanaker as he didn’t start practicing ISSF competitions until 6 years before he won gold in 1972 at age 38, and he won his last medal at age 59 at the ISSF World Cup final in 1993. IMO he is the most consistent free pistol shooter of all time (well between him and Jin Jong Oh), and even more impressively was the way he switched from multiple pistols because i think he used a Baikal early on and then switched to a Hammerli seamlessly actually
Edit: Yo that rumor is insane to think about, but tbh I wouldn’t be surprised since he really only stayed in Moscow most of the time and he could’ve done some crassszy shit. Now that I think about it it’d be funny if he took weed and some shrooms that calmed him down before the games, and he does look like he’s on shrooms in the pic ur talking about😳. Jk lmao he’s got his place in history and he’s a legend (RIP Melentiev)
@@onetruehitman7623 yeah lol 😆 😂 Melentiev could've taken substances that wasn't on the banned list, but it would have the same advantageous effect to calm him down. Weed would be outside that banned list as of 1980?🤷♂️😸
Oh and I am totally with you on Ragnar Skanaker. He is one of the best all-around issf shooter ever. He is a true natural shooter in every aspect. There are other ISSF events and he excelled in every one of them lol. Considering the fact that Kim only compete in the slow fire events, Ragnar during his heyday can definitely hang with Ralf Schumann the rapid fire pistol Ace at his prime. I believe these days Ragnar is an instructor for the Swedish law enforcement? He's one to be admired and emulate. 👍😸
@@willywonka4340 100%, he was unexpectedly world champion in the 25m standard pistol I think before he won free pistol in 1982. I’d say the only one who was competitive in such a variety of events like Skanaker was Mikhail Nestruyev (Silver medal at rapid fire at 2009 European championships!), but his peak felt short lived.
Let’s talk about other legendary performances. Uwe Potteck became record holder in the Montreal 1976 Olympics. He had been practicing the sport for 23 months and before that he was a wrestler. Before Montreal, literally the only decent competition he had was national championships where he placed 2nd behind another legend Harold Vollmar, who was a vet. In the run up to the games, he averaged around 563-565 in practice but somehow when it mattered most he shot the best he shot in his life in his first major competition and stole both the WR and the Olympic gold medal that his teammate Vollmar never had unfortunately (he got 2 silvers). Probably fastest progression in the sport I’ve ever seen tbh
Edit: Another mention is Kanstantsin Lukashyk, who although was super inconsistent throughout his career, Can forever call himself the youngest Olympic champ in shooting at age 16. He made the CIS team in Barcelona 1992 as he unexpectedly placed 1st at the CIS championships (remember, the CIS was the USSR minutes countries like Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, etc.). That in itself is insane as he probably faced guys like Melentiev, Sergei Pyzhianov, Boris Kokorev, and even Igor Basinski who was born in the same city as Lukashyk. It’s worth noting he also was the best junior in the world as he won both European and World titles in air pistol and he was European Junior champion in free pistol the previous year. Anyway, he saved himself in Barcelona with an insane 99 in the 5th set and eventually unexpectedly was 1st after qualification. It all came down to the final shot, where he appeared to tremble if u look closely and he put the pistol down 3 times in a row and had to quickly shoot it at the 4th try just seconds before the time limit ran out. In an interview, he claimed Skanaker distracted him by sneezing, however, I saw another thread in target talk that talked about how Skanaker had been using a new air gun in which the commenter said the following , “I remember Ragnar's first attempt at a new AP was an effort with Crossman or Daisy...not sure exactly but it went nowhere. Then he got involved in a new compressed air pistol. I remember seeing him at a match with an air pump running to charge his cylinder...it ran and ran, noisy as hell.” Perhaps it was intentional on Ragnar’s part, but it is different than what the sneeze Kostya talked about. Anyway, he had a legendary performance that day and he definetly overcame the fear in his heart in the last shot, just watch in this clip at the end
ruclips.net/video/DVc_a4vhV6E/видео.html
I did this in highschool and gad to have a sponsor to pay for my custom fitted Olympic grade rifle and leathers just to be competitive cause my parents couldnt affird 10k for the rifle and clothes actually it was 16,760 for everything and i had a sponsor civer everything for me. I won state all 3 years in a row
See folks ... dry fire, dry fire , dry fire 👍🏻👍🏻👏👏
I teach and stress dry firing with all my students.
What happened to double tap center mass, one to the head ?
You'll be my hero if you compete with a Hi-Point C9, sideways, gangster style.
Terrance Hill shows up at the rapid fire competition...
The removal of Olympic sport pistols from the list of eligible for sale excludes the participation of California residents from one of the Olympic Charter shooting sports. Since the state will not popularize and develop the Olympic type of these sports competitions. This is real damage to American values and human rights!
Interesting comment. I am a veteran and a California liberal who owned personal firearms during active duty on the East Coast. When I recently became interested in shooting pistols again I was disturbed by the lack of selection on the CA handgun list. As someone who is particularly interested in target shooting as a form of relaxation and discipline, high accuracy pistols like the ones in this video really appeal to me. I totally agree that the requirement under CA law for manufacturers to comply with so many rules thus resulting in many manufacturers simply avoiding CA altogether is a big loss for citizens of the state and the sport. If the country could only come together on sensible laws, then I believe that CA would be able to relax its own overly restrictive one.
@@brentwalker3300 we have plenty of sensible laws on the books already. What we need to do is enforce our existing laws. That would serve everybody well and it is effective. See Project Exile as an example of when this was implemented.
How are guns restricted in the usa, i thought you have the 2.a?
4:00 please make a pistol that breaks all the rules against being too accurate
I dig it.Cause I airgun for fun.
some kind of anschutz
I think the guns being used for demonstration are pardinis
Pity Pardini dont make an electric trigger Rapid fire pistol any more...
Its unfortunate that before presenting the different types of the Olympic pistols he ate the spiciest peppers known to man.
Funny observation lmao 🤣
So easy:)
Why are they both holding the target paper like that? Wtf
I have seen some dumb questions in my days, but you think they are holding it so the scoring rings will be shown? Holding by the edges shows the total target? Not everything in the world is WTF............
IPSC is much more fun.
Why don't they use a .22 pistol?
they do! Free pistol is shot with .22lr, Rapid Fire Pistol is also .22LR. But AIR pistol is shot with .177 pellets discharged by compressed air or co2. In shooting competition, there are SPECIFIED RULES on what to use and what you can do to it that stays within the regulations for that particular competition. You can't just bring ANYTHING you like to a match. They all have rules on what to use. Different rules, different level of difficulty and challenges.
@@willywonka4340 sport pistol is also 22
Less recoil
Meh they should have draw from the holster.
I know an American child 10-year old who can be in the team. She is born with guns.
That looks nice, but I think I'll stick with my 1911.
Actually 1 meter = 1.0936 yard
They could have done a better job with close up shots of the guns instead of the shooter's face.
My dad was kieths boss when he was on the usar shooting team. (Yes he was the commander of the team) and Kieth got fired by my dad bc he was a bad influence for the team
Please explain “bad influence”. In the video, he seems like a good guy.
@@davesmyrnaga self centered, he apparently only cared abt himself while in reality he was shooting for a team, he also apparently did a lot of talking behind peoples backs. He was by far the best shooter on the team but his bad influence on the team made everybody else’s scores drop, until he was kicked off and everybody’s scores went up
@@danielschultz6470 wow!
@@danielschultz6470 See folks people skills are important!
Archery, Rifle and Pistol should have the same rules for Women, get rid of the individual gender events for those sports.
You'd be surprised that in Olympic shooting, girls beat boys way more frequently than other way around! There are NO handicaps in Olympic style shooting!
@@willywonka4340 I think the same about not splitting the two genders up at this kind of olympic event but women are generally only shooting better at rifle disciplines. In most Pistol competitions (on every level) men do still have a leading edge, altough that is partially due to the fact that women don´t do as much pistol shooting since they don´t have an olympic competition for it. But still in most national competitions mens pistol shooters are generally speaking ranking higher scores. But don´t get me wrong: I don´t think that is because "men are better" or anything like that !
@@Kampfschildi99 Agree on the female rifle shooters, in the international ISSF and NRA national disciplines..... Margaret Thompson Murdock, Polly Tubb and Michelle Gallagher comes to mind. These female rifle shooters are on par with the elite male shooters, and on their good days these women will beat all of the guys😎. However, there are pistol shooting disciplines for women as well, the international air and sports pistol. These events are contested among themselves but the consistency of their groups are no different than the top male shooters. Check out their scores on ISSF website. They're on equal terms with men actually lol
Then get rid of it in all sports--Equal is equal right?
Based on the different bodies, men and woman have certain edge depending on the shooting discipline.
Woman have a small edge shooting rifles based on their hip placement and lower center of gravity. The upper body build favours men in pistol shooting. By segregating in the competitions you negate those differences.
In some other disciplines like skeet and trap shooting, the number of shots were reduced for woman cause it's quite exhausting shooting over 200 rounds in one event. But they changed it a few years ago so everyone shoots the same.
When she touched and rub it.. it goes bang!
Dry fire isn't going to help if your trying to learn useful skills because in the real world recoil management is more important that getting your shot to be perfectly placed down to the millimeters.
I hope, the only reason to use firearms is on a paper target. Unfortunately, not all of us share that belief. This is the last argument any human should have.