About to hit 60 with my sham, I love playing enh, its such fun man.. but about that hit table, how much hit do I need as an orc with an axe, 7%? That >10 defensive ability rule is confusing as hell, help lol - When is it worth using an axe instead of a better mace?
Corrupted as for worth using a better mace on anything below level 63 the better weapon is always the play, if it’s 63/Boss/💀 axe increases your glance damage by 20% so it’s almost always what you should choose. Hope this helps, I know it’s super confusing.
@@Holderhek Awesome, are the pvp rules different, or should we just take the slowest and hardest one there? Also, I guess as an orc its better to go the elemental subroute for that 9% crit once we're in p4 or later because its pretty easy to get that 6% hit right? Also, isnt the Base 5% spellcritchance way too low to be viable? As we dont really get any spellcrit on fitting items until the aq40 set, which isnt even thaaat good. Sorry for all the questions lol, but classic minmaxing is extremely confusing
Corrupted You only need 5% melee hit for PVP. There the slowest, hardest hitting weapon is your best bet. No matter what. As for spell critical, there’s never really going to be any great hybrid gear so the only way to effectively do elemental damage as enhancement is with the Dragon slayer buff and winters chill stacking on something you are attacking. Then you have 25% spell crit. And you are correct, the 2.5 set isn’t good.
Could you elaborate a bit further on how to convince your raid leader that you can/may use Stormstrike? I'm trying to anticipate the (many) people who will flat out tell you that you cannot use it.So far I've only got: 'This guy on RUclips told it so.' ;)
BillieTheTorso The whole you can’t use storm strike in a raid thing is a meme. It’s not the best debuff, and honestly I wish it didn’t give a debuff but it’s what we have to work with. There are about 8 debuffs that NEED to be on the boss. They are: Curse of Shadow Curse of Elements Curse of Recklessness Winter’s Chill (Until AQ) Ignite (Naxx) Sunder Armor Nightfall Faerie Fire Improved Shadow Bolt These are the best for just straight raid damage. From here you cycle in mitigation debuffs; Thunder Clap Demoralizing Shout Curse of Weakness Now you can add in situational debuffs given your raid makeup: Scorch depending on Mage count and raiding tier. Hunter’s Mark / Tier armor reduction. Annihilator Proc (for melee heavy raids) Thunderfury Shadow Priest utilization for 1 or 2 debuffs. Gift of Arthas Arcanite Dragonling (quicker fights with Fire Mage heavy groups) Stormstrike Flame Shock Hemo Corruption And there is consideration for taunts as well, which will overlap. Adjust to your raid / favorite flavor palate. So yes, you can totally use Stormstrike. It’s not going to be an issue.
Thats seems about right :) great video! What is exactly the rotation you're using? To use flame shock more than 3-4 times is kinda the wet dream of enh shamans what shouldn't really happen practically hehe
Lars Open with mana/goa/soe/searing -> SS+ES -> ES -> FLS -> repeat @ 1min recast Searing/Mana totem -> repeat previous rotation. Casting FLS once every 20 seconds or so.
Yep FLS is Flame Shock, FS is Frost Shock. In your actual raid dps rotation you'd use Frost Shock in place of Earth and possibly abandon Flame Shock in favor of totem twisting.
Guillaume Castel I did some in my upcoming rotation video. It’s not worth mentioning for any sort of personal DPS so parses with a nightfall in BiS gear are kind of pointless. If you are using that axe you are most likely wearing some sort of intellect heavy hybridized gear so you can continually totem twist for as long as possible. I’ll have that video out in the next couple of days.
Love to see how to argue with your raid and get Hand of Ragnaros:P and it would be nice if you could shed some more ligth on the rotation (feel like you need a balance of showing of your dmg and helping the raid with totemtwisting
Rohle Dawg honestly on horde enhance is the only choice for the HoR. BRE is waaaay better for warriors and as a weapon in general. Raid rotation with totem twisting would be Mana Spring/SOE/WF/Searing -> SS -> twist GOA every 10 sec with WF -> SS on Cooldown -> redrop mana/searing at 1min -> redrop SOE at 2minutes.
What do you think of Troll Shaman. I hear they get 43% attack speed increase with berserking instead of 30% and it is working as intended. Is this atk spd increase enough to make they better than orc or tauren?
Dakota Smith in terms of sustain? I’d say probably not. They are definitely ahead of Tauren as Tauren get no melee bonus aside from longer reach but that 43% buff is only for 10 seconds every 3 minutes. I can’t imagine that being as useful as a flat AP bonus and +5 weapon skill.
Hey nice video. I watched this and your first one. It's really cool hearing that enhance can compete with others but I'm a bit skeptical. Why does everyone say its bad then? I would have thought people on private servers would have figured out that enhance is the top 2/3 dps in a raid (according to your parses/dps ranking form your first video). Looking forward to more though :)
0o0oKodio0o0 Your guess is as good as mine. I put up numbers very similar to this in vanilla retail so I know it’s legit. People get stuck in very specific mindsets and refuse to try anything out of the norm. It’s gonna be why half the server will be fury warriors when classic launches...which is funny because in early WoW DPS warriors were looked down on too. 🤷🏻♂️
@@Holderhek Part of it might be because some of your abilities that increase your overall dmg take up debuff slots, which wont be possible in most guilds. Which will reduce your dps slightly. Not saying its just because of this, but it might be one of the reasons.
matjee That’s definitely a reason. My belief is if you can bring a shadow priest to help the warlocks you can bring a enhance shaman to help the melee. The debuff order can be reworked to maximize the dps of your raid. Heavy emphasis on YOUR raid as they will all be comprised differently based on who shows up.
It's not top 2/3 dps in raid. It's garbage. Take it from someone who has been clearing naxx every week for the past year. If you're doing sub 1k dps on single target it's potato damage. Not to mention that parsing on a test dummy is not the same as parsing on actual bosses. Plus no serious guild is going to let you use flameshock in a raid. It's a shitty debuff and with only 16 debuff slots there are FAR more valuable debuffs available. It is NOT a valuable debuff. It's laughably bad. Warlocks corruption is also a waste of a debuff slot and should not be used. Warlocks should all be DS/Ruin and just Shadow Bolt and Shadowburn. 1 Warlock can go with the improved imp spec for tank group and have his DPS and that's it. I hate to break it to you but you are more than likely going to be disappointed in classic if you think enhancement is viable. If anything ele would be more viable but even then you are fundamentally fucked in AQ40 because mobs and bosses have nature resistance which means your worthless as a DPS in this instance. AQ40 is also where the content starts to get more difficult and ironically is the first place where good shaman ele gear starts appearing so you shouldn't hurt your raid by gearing shamans with items like DFT when they are far more valuable on tanks, fury warriors, and rogues. To give you some comparisons, playing rogue I was able to parse 1350 DPS on patchwerk, a single target boss which is a long fight. On multiple target fights such as Fankriss I parsed 2339 DPS. A shaman is never going to compare to that. I love rogue as a class and would argue it's a very strong DPS class that should be included in raids, but the truth is that vanilla DPS is going to absolutely be dominated by warriors and in the long run mages because of ignite. But warrior is the true DPS king. DPS enhancement shaman will always remain a meme spec and you will only find that good guilds will gear you after everyone else already has the gear that you also want. It will be long after naxx has been cleared and is on farm where you will start getting any of this gear. Don't mean to piss on your chips, but this is how it be.
So essentially: "Hi my only exp is from private servers. I've never raided with a geared enhance shaman and here are my parse numbers with every buff in the game." Clearing Naxx for a year is impressive and so are your numbers. On the same test dummies rogues and warriors pull numbers very similar to mine. In retail vanilla I was competitive with rogues and warriors. Enhance is viable if you know how to play it.
Weapon damage and Attack Speed scale completely differently. Weapon damage is pretty much just an AP buff post-normalization, while attack speed scales all of your melee stats. So, trading 30% haste for a small AP decrease is FAR from fair. Stacking 2 30% haste buffs makes everything scale WAY better than it will on live. To test properly, don't spec into flurry and just assume 100% uptime. Your numbers will drastically change.
@@Holderhek Ah interesting, looks like it actually did impact DPS the same when at the low gear level. ~160AP AP loss due to weapon switch, (about 17% AP loss), which evidently has the same impact as flurry on DPS at the low level of gear (low uptime). This also suggests that assuming 100% flurry uptime is very inaccurate when a 17% AP loss (1 wep dps = 14 AP) has the same impact as losing flurry. Also, losing flurry would be most impactful at the high end gear, where the scaling comes more into play. Either way, its great you are testing these things and putting them out there to raise awareness. I think high class diversity will have a very positive impact on classic.
ElvenMan it’s the best way to level. Get a shield and a fast 1 hander enchanted with windfury. Don’t worry too much about raising weapon skills as you level. You can level all weapons in the blasted lands against mobs that don’t die.
@@Holderhek Hmm, thanks for your answer. Wouldn't 2H be better tho? I heard WF proc is not dependent on your weapon speed in classic. Or i should go with shield cause of the added defence and other stats?
ElvenMan wf is 20% per swing to proc. The shield helps you take less damage from mobs so you can eat/drink less and level faster. 2hand works if you earthbind kite and time your swings.
The "aura crit reduction" is not 1. an aura, 2. does not only affect crit you receive from other players but all crit you receive from anything else but Agility. All "x% critical strike chance" items and talents, internally, add an "aura" (not an aura as in Paladin auras but that's what any sort of buffs that do not come from base stats are called by the game code, it seems) to your character. The "aura crit reduction" is then a reduction on how much critical strike you can "apply" from these auras when attacking a boss. And, likely, the aura reduction is a flat 1.8%. See: github.com/magey/classic-warrior/wiki/Crit-aura-suppression for details.
Quen.95 some of those fights are even less than two minutes. It’s private server data on the top dps per class/per raid. Ragnaros is killed under two minutes regularly.
You can't be an enhancement shaman and natty at the same time. Shammys are the masters at enhancing performance ;). Time to leave humanity behind. Or orcanity? Tauranity?
About to hit 60 with my sham, I love playing enh, its such fun man.. but about that hit table, how much hit do I need as an orc with an axe, 7%? That >10 defensive ability rule is confusing as hell, help lol - When is it worth using an axe instead of a better mace?
Corrupted 6% hit as an orc with an axe. 🤝
@@Holderhek Thanks!
Corrupted as for worth using a better mace on anything below level 63 the better weapon is always the play, if it’s 63/Boss/💀 axe increases your glance damage by 20% so it’s almost always what you should choose. Hope this helps, I know it’s super confusing.
@@Holderhek Awesome, are the pvp rules different, or should we just take the slowest and hardest one there? Also, I guess as an orc its better to go the elemental subroute for that 9% crit once we're in p4 or later because its pretty easy to get that 6% hit right? Also, isnt the Base 5% spellcritchance way too low to be viable? As we dont really get any spellcrit on fitting items until the aq40 set, which isnt even thaaat good. Sorry for all the questions lol, but classic minmaxing is extremely confusing
Corrupted You only need 5% melee hit for PVP. There the slowest, hardest hitting weapon is your best bet. No matter what.
As for spell critical, there’s never really going to be any great hybrid gear so the only way to effectively do elemental damage as enhancement is with the Dragon slayer buff and winters chill stacking on something you are attacking. Then you have 25% spell crit.
And you are correct, the 2.5 set isn’t good.
I can't wait to see those deep dives. Please keep it up!
Thanks for the update Holder, keep the videos coming!
Could you elaborate a bit further on how to convince your raid leader that you can/may use Stormstrike? I'm trying to anticipate the (many) people who will flat out tell you that you cannot use it.So far I've only got: 'This guy on RUclips told it so.' ;)
BillieTheTorso
The whole you can’t use storm strike in a raid thing is a meme. It’s not the best debuff, and honestly I wish it didn’t give a debuff but it’s what we have to work with.
There are about 8 debuffs that NEED to be on the boss. They are:
Curse of Shadow
Curse of Elements
Curse of Recklessness
Winter’s Chill (Until AQ) Ignite (Naxx)
Sunder Armor
Nightfall
Faerie Fire
Improved Shadow Bolt
These are the best for just straight raid damage.
From here you cycle in mitigation debuffs;
Thunder Clap
Demoralizing Shout
Curse of Weakness
Now you can add in situational debuffs given your raid makeup:
Scorch depending on Mage count and raiding tier.
Hunter’s Mark / Tier armor reduction.
Annihilator Proc (for melee heavy raids)
Thunderfury
Shadow Priest utilization for 1 or 2 debuffs.
Gift of Arthas
Arcanite Dragonling (quicker fights with Fire Mage heavy groups)
Stormstrike
Flame Shock
Hemo
Corruption
And there is consideration for taunts as well, which will overlap.
Adjust to your raid / favorite flavor palate.
So yes, you can totally use Stormstrike. It’s not going to be an issue.
Thats seems about right :) great video!
What is exactly the rotation you're using? To use flame shock more than 3-4 times is kinda the wet dream of enh shamans what shouldn't really happen practically hehe
Lars Open with mana/goa/soe/searing -> SS+ES -> ES -> FLS -> repeat @ 1min recast Searing/Mana totem -> repeat previous rotation. Casting FLS once every 20 seconds or so.
@@Holderhek What's FLS?
@@0o0oKodio0o0 Flame Shock probably
Yep FLS is Flame Shock, FS is Frost Shock. In your actual raid dps rotation you'd use Frost Shock in place of Earth and possibly abandon Flame Shock in favor of totem twisting.
Could you talk about your DPS rotation in the next video ? And also the best class to play enh ?
Guillaume Castel I’ll be talking about the best race for enhance in the next video about gearing. I’ll add a rotation video to the list. Thank you!
Btw did you run tests with the nightfall axe ?
classic.wowhead.com/item=19169/nightfall
Guillaume Castel I did some in my upcoming rotation video. It’s not worth mentioning for any sort of personal DPS so parses with a nightfall in BiS gear are kind of pointless.
If you are using that axe you are most likely wearing some sort of intellect heavy hybridized gear so you can continually totem twist for as long as possible.
I’ll have that video out in the next couple of days.
Love to see how to argue with your raid and get Hand of Ragnaros:P and it would be nice if you could shed some more ligth on the rotation (feel like you need a balance of showing of your dmg and helping the raid with totemtwisting
Rohle Dawg honestly on horde enhance is the only choice for the HoR. BRE is waaaay better for warriors and as a weapon in general.
Raid rotation with totem twisting would be Mana Spring/SOE/WF/Searing -> SS -> twist GOA every 10 sec with WF -> SS on Cooldown -> redrop mana/searing at 1min -> redrop SOE at 2minutes.
wow, thanks holder, VERY cool
What do you think of Troll Shaman. I hear they get 43% attack speed increase with berserking instead of 30% and it is working as intended. Is this atk spd increase enough to make they better than orc or tauren?
Dakota Smith in terms of sustain? I’d say probably not. They are definitely ahead of Tauren as Tauren get no melee bonus aside from longer reach but that 43% buff is only for 10 seconds every 3 minutes. I can’t imagine that being as useful as a flat AP bonus and +5 weapon skill.
@@Holderhek okay I'll have to go troll bc my wife is going priest.
@@dakotasmith7474 orc and troll start in same area give her that orc D
Dude!!! I love your humor. Playing shaman today and I will most likely link your shit to prove all the hater wrong :)
Hey nice video. I watched this and your first one. It's really cool hearing that enhance can compete with others but I'm a bit skeptical. Why does everyone say its bad then? I would have thought people on private servers would have figured out that enhance is the top 2/3 dps in a raid (according to your parses/dps ranking form your first video). Looking forward to more though :)
0o0oKodio0o0 Your guess is as good as mine. I put up numbers very similar to this in vanilla retail so I know it’s legit.
People get stuck in very specific mindsets and refuse to try anything out of the norm.
It’s gonna be why half the server will be fury warriors when classic launches...which is funny because in early WoW DPS warriors were looked down on too. 🤷🏻♂️
@@Holderhek Part of it might be because some of your abilities that increase your overall dmg take up debuff slots, which wont be possible in most guilds. Which will reduce your dps slightly. Not saying its just because of this, but it might be one of the reasons.
matjee That’s definitely a reason. My belief is if you can bring a shadow priest to help the warlocks you can bring a enhance shaman to help the melee.
The debuff order can be reworked to maximize the dps of your raid. Heavy emphasis on YOUR raid as they will all be comprised differently based on who shows up.
It's not top 2/3 dps in raid. It's garbage. Take it from someone who has been clearing naxx every week for the past year. If you're doing sub 1k dps on single target it's potato damage. Not to mention that parsing on a test dummy is not the same as parsing on actual bosses. Plus no serious guild is going to let you use flameshock in a raid. It's a shitty debuff and with only 16 debuff slots there are FAR more valuable debuffs available. It is NOT a valuable debuff. It's laughably bad. Warlocks corruption is also a waste of a debuff slot and should not be used. Warlocks should all be DS/Ruin and just Shadow Bolt and Shadowburn. 1 Warlock can go with the improved imp spec for tank group and have his DPS and that's it.
I hate to break it to you but you are more than likely going to be disappointed in classic if you think enhancement is viable. If anything ele would be more viable but even then you are fundamentally fucked in AQ40 because mobs and bosses have nature resistance which means your worthless as a DPS in this instance. AQ40 is also where the content starts to get more difficult and ironically is the first place where good shaman ele gear starts appearing so you shouldn't hurt your raid by gearing shamans with items like DFT when they are far more valuable on tanks, fury warriors, and rogues.
To give you some comparisons, playing rogue I was able to parse 1350 DPS on patchwerk, a single target boss which is a long fight. On multiple target fights such as Fankriss I parsed 2339 DPS. A shaman is never going to compare to that. I love rogue as a class and would argue it's a very strong DPS class that should be included in raids, but the truth is that vanilla DPS is going to absolutely be dominated by warriors and in the long run mages because of ignite. But warrior is the true DPS king. DPS enhancement shaman will always remain a meme spec and you will only find that good guilds will gear you after everyone else already has the gear that you also want. It will be long after naxx has been cleared and is on farm where you will start getting any of this gear. Don't mean to piss on your chips, but this is how it be.
So essentially: "Hi my only exp is from private servers. I've never raided with a geared enhance shaman and here are my parse numbers with every buff in the game."
Clearing Naxx for a year is impressive and so are your numbers. On the same test dummies rogues and warriors pull numbers very similar to mine. In retail vanilla I was competitive with rogues and warriors. Enhance is viable if you know how to play it.
Weapon damage and Attack Speed scale completely differently. Weapon damage is pretty much just an AP buff post-normalization, while attack speed scales all of your melee stats. So, trading 30% haste for a small AP decrease is FAR from fair. Stacking 2 30% haste buffs makes everything scale WAY better than it will on live. To test properly, don't spec into flurry and just assume 100% uptime. Your numbers will drastically change.
I really appreciate your feedback. I took all 5 points out of flurry as you suggested. Damage remained quite similar.
imgur.com/gallery/4mZpvBX
@@Holderhek Ah interesting, looks like it actually did impact DPS the same when at the low gear level. ~160AP AP loss due to weapon switch, (about 17% AP loss), which evidently has the same impact as flurry on DPS at the low level of gear (low uptime). This also suggests that assuming 100% flurry uptime is very inaccurate when a 17% AP loss (1 wep dps = 14 AP) has the same impact as losing flurry. Also, losing flurry would be most impactful at the high end gear, where the scaling comes more into play.
Either way, its great you are testing these things and putting them out there to raise awareness. I think high class diversity will have a very positive impact on classic.
Hm, i'm going to have to watch part 1 now..
What's your thoughts on leveling as enhancement btw?
ElvenMan it’s the best way to level. Get a shield and a fast 1 hander enchanted with windfury. Don’t worry too much about raising weapon skills as you level. You can level all weapons in the blasted lands against mobs that don’t die.
@@Holderhek Hmm, thanks for your answer. Wouldn't 2H be better tho? I heard WF proc is not dependent on your weapon speed in classic.
Or i should go with shield cause of the added defence and other stats?
ElvenMan wf is 20% per swing to proc. The shield helps you take less damage from mobs so you can eat/drink less and level faster. 2hand works if you earthbind kite and time your swings.
The "aura crit reduction" is not
1. an aura,
2. does not only affect crit you receive from other players but all crit you receive from anything else but Agility.
All "x% critical strike chance" items and talents, internally, add an "aura" (not an aura as in Paladin auras but that's what any sort of buffs that do not come from base stats are called by the game code, it seems) to your character. The "aura crit reduction" is then a reduction on how much critical strike you can "apply" from these auras when attacking a boss. And, likely, the aura reduction is a flat 1.8%. See: github.com/magey/classic-warrior/wiki/Crit-aura-suppression for details.
I added this to the video comments. Thank you!
It's not only the threath why you shouldnt use earthshock, bosses have higher nature resistance than frost resistance. atleast on private servers
Yep also true. It would only work if the thunderfury was debuffing the boss and even then frost shock would still -likely- be a better bet.
So do the compared phrases of other classes also hit the dummy only for about 2minutes? Usually they are not made like that 🤔
Quen.95 some of those fights are even less than two minutes. It’s private server data on the top dps per class/per raid. Ragnaros is killed under two minutes regularly.
I was told that you only need 3% hit from gear if you are an axe wielding orc and rocking the 3% hit talent. Is this correct?
Oskar Stenvall yep that’s right
@@Holderhek Ah, okay. Just wanted confirmation by the chad himself. Cheers!
diggin the FF music
god dam you......….Now I am going have to level a enhancement......Gonna be awesome
bus shock.. please.. that takes me back
Is your name in game holderhek?
Prescott Walker in game name in classic is HolderKEK. Holderhek got taken amazingly enough.
lol "the M.O.M!" ...... btw, "Menethil" is Arthas' last name. :D
You can't be an enhancement shaman and natty at the same time. Shammys are the masters at enhancing performance ;). Time to leave humanity behind. Or orcanity? Tauranity?
Janluc Saneaux Enhancers 5% confirmed
Just hand out Thunderfury 4Head
everything i need in one video
shaman do damage
frick a warlock