That’s amazing charging curve, surprised that it beats Tesla! This is Audi’s first full electric SUV, can you imagine what they will have in a few years!
It's even more impressive had the test gone further, eTron can hold 80kW up to 90%, 65kW to 95%, and 55kW to full. For charging after 80% it blows every other EV out of the water, and does triple the speed of Tesla.
Audi knows their customers and has done a great job delivering a superior charging experience and completely hiding battery degradation by using a large buffer; that is related to the efficiency issue. I will say that peak charging rate is very useful as a metric for the BEV driver - if you can achieve peak during a session, much of the curve is elevated as well and you have the right charger, battery temp, max Amps, etc. Good job getting peak under those conditions!
Kris, man another great 👍 video, and we also consistently get up to 151kW when charging my wife eTron! No matter the outside temperature! As for the Tesla vs eTron on overall efficiency, I do think you are wrong when you compare Tesla model X P90D vs the eTron .. we previously own the P90D model X and it takes over an hours longer going on the same road trip 754 miles then the eTron.. so when you compare the Tesla model X with similar battery size the eTron is faster on real world trips .. so I truly don’t care about the car telling me I have great consumption but yet takes allot more time on doing real world long distance driving.. local driving our model X was more efficient but that’s about it .. Also you should never Compare apples to oranges .. never compare model 3 vs eTron that does not make any sense.. two different class of cars and major different weight class as well .. if you really want to find out how efficient Tesla drivetrain is load up a Tesla model X 90D or P90D to the same weight as a eTron and go on a long drive .. and you will see Consumption similar to the eTron .. so sorry after owning both the model X and now the eTron, the eTron is hands down better is every way that really counts .. the newer plaid or 2021 model X long range may be better now, but both has a bigger battery with allot more usable so can’t even compare them .. so you can only compare the P90D or the 90D model X vs the eTron 55 ... anything else and that’s apples to oranges pointless to compare with.. With that said yes, my model 3 is more efficient than other EV in the same class driving at slow speeds 65-70mph .. nothing can touch it at that speeds, but I would never compare my model 3 versus my eTron that’s pointless..
Hi Kris, thx to for your support and video. Fully agree! I owned so far 2 e-tron (19 & 21) and still happy. Record so far was 156kW. I am just waiting for Plug&charge option for my MIB3 SW. Looking forward
That's an awesome charging curve indeed. I thought you were getting a little too deep in the T* coolaid for a while. Balance is a good thing. By the way I get from 6% to 81% in 22min when starting with battery at 82F. That's 188kW average on a Taycan 4S with the larger battery. I think that the Audi is #2 😁, number one for an SUV.
I am enjoying a lot your videos Kris. I am an e-tron owner, in Brazil. it is quite interesting to see the behavior of charging curve when using powerful charger. I think in Brazil we have just one unit of 150kw charger and it is in a Porsche store. It has been an awesome experience owning this car, it is amazing all the technologies Audi get onboard this model, it is my day by day vehicle and I am quite anxious to see the next e-tron GT model =D
Keep them coming Kris! I admit that I'm watching for both the tech side as well as the Norwegian scenery :-). When I do long trips I always go from 5% to 65/70% (Model 3 LR DM MY19), depending on the available chargers on the way. Considering that I travel in Germany most of the times the availability is extremely high. Every 100 km there's a tesla chargepoint and then you have Ionity, EnBW, Allego and others as well...... Short 200 km hops with around 15-20 minutes chargetime. With an E-tron I would also do 5-80% as a default probably. Just take every Ionity charger within 200-250km hops and you travel at really solid speeds.
Thanks mate 😊 In the E-Tron you would have similar travel time because of the faster charging from 5-80%, just look at the Norwegian High Speed Run where the E-Tron is only 18min behind the M3 LR. Considering the E-Tron is such larger car, that is actually quite impressive!
@@KrisRifa , Yeah really impressive! I also travel with a tent-trailer in summer to France and Spain (via Paris/A75). The only reason I do that with a Tesla M3 is the Supercharger network. Starting next year the Ionity corridor will be almost finished on my Antwerp-Lille-Paris-Clermont Ferrand route. That's when I'm surely considering moving to an E-tron 55. Last year it just wasn't an option. Especially after the corri-door 50 kW network going largely offline..... I have considered a Model X. But just don't like the looks of it. Could be nice video material post-corona. A race between you and Bjorn with a car of choice from NL to spain with a trailer. I volunteer in supplying a trailer ;-)
If you get an OBD2 adapter + app, you can indeed also preheat the battery before arriving at a charger. That will also allow you to read out the battery temperature, and how much power is used for battery heating while charging. Your Norwegian spec e-tron has 10 kW battery heating at disposal (vs 5 kW in warmer markets), but it might not use all of that. It would be interesting to do a test where you start with a really cold car, run battery preheating for an hour (through OBD2), and then drive to a nearby HPC charger. You should then get max charge rate - maybe even higher than in this video - without the need to first drive/jojo. Given your parking situation described in previous videos (outside, without a charger), that might have a benefit for you in everyday use, not only for testing.
Enig med Olaf. Har samme OBD-utstyr selv. Vi har dessverre ikke klart å bevise at e-tronen faktisk varmer batteriet automatisk under lading... Men har ikke testet med OBD-avlesing på lynlader ennå...
Brilliant - as you say all they have to sort out is the driving efficiency and hope that high power changing does not reduce the battery life I guess :)
That was why I choose the Etron 55 für me. its all about the charging kurve. However when ist es very cold una U drive to a HPC (50km distance) nor yoyo then the battery will be still cold and U get only 50-60 kWh ( @ about SOC 60). Like in the morning about 6:00 o clock. But hen that battery has its feel good temperature its fabulous.
Experiencing the same thing in my etron using our local Ionity. 63kW to start slowly ramping to a peak of 107kW. I think its the charger though, throttling somewhat due to the cold. In summer/autumn the same charger delivers full speed.?!
Hi Kris, thank you for the interesting video 👍 Just one question a bit OT, Bjorn ordered a Model S Plaid+ are you going to surprise us by ordering the new E-Tron GT...😁😁
I think this is why I choose E-tron instead of Mercedes or Jaguar. One think that should be also considered that model 3 or S are not SUV like E-tron. Of course the bigger the car bigger the consumption is anyway but the comfort is very good and the car is dam slient. The other thing is in Nordic countries it is always good to drive rather high vehicle because you may stuck somewhere easily if you are not careful.(snow) Mercedes is something also could be considered however max charging speed is 100kw/h and AC charging speed is 7,2kw/h so Mercedes is still not there yet. One thing which I wanted to have when I ordered my E tron is to have the other AC charger on the other side with 22kw/h and that was not possible but may be now is.
Great video, an excellent summary of one of the most overlooked aspect of EV ownership. Re: e-tron thirst... I think the e-tron gets a bad rep. In winter its not far away from Tesla S and X efficiency. Its a heavy, 4 wheeled drive, air suspensioned, quiet luxury machine. The efficiency is good in that respect. Look at the new SUV EVs hitting the market, they're not much more efficient whilst delivering fewer 'gadgets' and comfort and often RWD or FWD only...
Thanks a lot! That is so true! A friend of mine was always bragging about the range and charge speed of his Model S 75D. But when asked, it charged slower than my E-Tron and had similar range. Granted it has a smaller battery, but still.
@@KrisRifa Yea exactly that, combine the charge speed and range in Winter and you're likely to journey further, quicker in the e-tron. A model S owner I asked also reported similar winter consumption with their 85/90 model. Of course, Summer is a different story but that e-tron charge speed makes up for it a lot. Really enjoying mine but I always have my eye on the Model S as a potential next car, the latest model looks v enticing.
@@KrisRifa Nice! Hope you do a lot of testing with the ID.3 in the same way you did with the Model 3 LR. Can't wait for your opinion. Btw, were you driving in Bergen in your latest video named "DON'T buy a Tesla Model 3 before Watching This"?
No, not as hybrid, There are some (two) Pacifica petrol cars from 2017 for sale, and that`s it. I can`t even find a dealer that sells new Chryslers here in Norway.
Does the VW ID4 charge at the same rate? Also I have to mention the Ioniq 5 will be able to charge at 800V. Basically Tesla has some serious competition coming. I wonder why your E tron isn’t more efficient. I wonder if they can start fine tuning it’s consumption through software changes. Kris, I drive the E tron at our auto show last year and absolutely loved it. But it’s 90-100k dollars here. That is it’s really expensive. The build quality is beautiful and the Teslas aren’t even close to this type of luxury. I found the Model 3 to be really cheap looking inside. And I really didn’t like the interface.
This is very impressive! What could be the drawback? Strain on the battery? Depletion? High level of cobalt? How come Tesla with their edge isnt matching this? 🤔
The Tesla was with the new battery. The thinking is that Tesla are being conservative with their charging curve until they know they can reliably charge faster without damaging the battery.
It's hard to say until these cars are five or ten years old. I think Audi have high levels of cobalt in their batteries, just look at 2021 Tesla M3 LR vs Performance (LG vs Panasonic battery) from Bjørns channel. Audi may have a different battery supplier and different access atm. Tesla sold more than 200k M3´s in 2020, while Audi "only" sold 50k E-Trons. Since Tesla also sell three other models they may also have problems with getting access. The Model 3 is also a much cheaper vehicle than the E-Tron, so there is more room for Audi to spend more money on the battery 😊
@@KrisRifa I belive that most manufacturers are having issues with battery supply. Tesla seem to be doing better as they actually make their own batteries (with Panasonic as a partner) so can dictate their mix of chemicals. They even have a lab that tests different ratios somewhere in North America in a University. Before I bought my Tesla I tried to get a Kona EV but was told that there was a 12 month wait as there weren’t enough batteries available. This lead me to get the Tesla instead as I got one within a month.
This explains why Audi keeps selling a sh-ton of e-tron. They outsell ID3s in Norway this month! Audi earns handsome profits cuz e-tron is not cheap. :) I am looking forward to seeing Q4 e-tron, e-tron GT, and more. Since e-tron is 3 years old, I can image the facelifted e-tron would be better in many ways. 200kW and 280 "real world mile range"?
@Kris Rifa Are you sure the car is using active battery heating during your charge sessions? We are some guys at elbilforum who have been doing various tests with OBD-tool connected to the car to read battery temperature and the activity in the PTC heat elements. We have not been able to see any evidence that the battery heater actually "kicks in" i any situation. I highly recomend you to ask Møller the following question: "WHAT ARE THE EXACT CONDITIONS THAT WILL TRIGGER THE BATTERY HEATER IN THE AUDI E-TRON?" And please tell us their answer! (Hopefully they will bother to answer you, since you are a known car tester. There is a lot of frustration out there concerning the leack of battery heating.
I can certainly ask Møller, and I understand what you´re saying. On the other hand the E-Tron is doing something that other ev´s aren´t because it actually can ramp up the speed like it does when it´s cold. And the car pulling 2 kW´s extra tells us that something is going on. But I cannot say with 100% certainty what is happening.
I totally agree that the e-tron is in another league, but still we are a lot of e-tron drivers who REALLY want to know an exact answer when it comes WHEN it heats the battery and when it doesn’t. So very thankful if you investigate that issue with Møller! Also: It would be interesting if you do the same 10-80 test with e-tron 50 in cold weather.. Seems like som users have had more issues with slow speed in cold weather with the 50....
Can you please make the 10-80%test on a 50kw charger? In many places here in Norway and also in many Europen Countries most chargers still deliver maximum speed of 50kw so the possibility of changing at 100-150kw chargers is still out of the equation for many people. I believe EQC, E-tron , I-Pace, Polestar, Taycan... are not much or even any faster than other cheaper cars with smaller battery packs (40-65 kwh) but also lower maximum charging speed up to 50-100kw. It is like having a hydrogen car... the theory sounds terrific but in the real world there is a lack of infrastructure in many places...
From the video you can see the car is pulling an extra 2kW´s from the charger, that is because it is heating the battery via the battery heater. If this wasn´t the case it wouldn't be pulling the extra power.
@@KrisRifa Are you sure? We are som guys at elbilforum who have been doing various tests with OBD-tool connected to the car to read battery temperature and the activity in the PTC heat elements. We have not been able to see any evidence that the battery heater actually "kicks in" i any situation. I highly recomend you to ask Møller the following question: "What are the conditions that will trigger the battery heater in the Audi e-tron?" (Hopefully they will bother to answer you, since you are a known car tester. There is a lot of frustration out there concerning the leack of battery heating.
This battery pre-heating and “jojo-ing” i would like to fully understand. My etron now in winter does not start at 120 but at 60-70kw. Even though i did put the fast charger in the navigation. Could you dig further into this pre-conditioning and if nothing automatic/intelligent exists: what does “jojo-ing” exactly mean ?
it is unfortunate the car has a poor efficiency, otherwise it would be the gold standard. Hopefully, we will see this charging curve in some more efficient model, maybe starting with the GT. Anyway, I think charging time should be measured between 10-90% SOC, as that would be the practical range of charge people would like to stay within in real conditions.
Hopefully we can push it to 10-90% in the future, but as current battery tech stands I think 10-80% is a nice compromise :) Even Bjørn is only doing 10-75%...
@@KrisRifa mine was more of a suggestion for you guys publicly pushing for it in your videos. And, I sometime disagree with Bjørn, so much so that he banned me twice! Even though, I believe, I have never come even close to people's comments he complains about in his video rants. You should tell him, he should learn to handle civilized criticism better! cheers
Bjørn does have that now in his TB Test google sheet. Look at the Range tab, he added a 10-75% charging data. I think he uses 75 because that's where Tesla's really start throttling. 😉
@@ronb4633 75%? I don't blame him cuz Bjørn is a huge tesla fan boy, so he always cherry-picks everything to make Tesla looking good and ahead of the competitors. Lame... Audi strongly believes in their products, so they proudly tell the buyers their capabilities. 10%-80% sounds better than 10%-75%.
It's situations like this when miss the old times. Passat VR6, 15 liters of 98 octane, yeah slightly on the costly side, but yolo, right? In EVs, everyone's at perfectly zero CO2 and dicking around all day.
I’m afraid that the Audi Q4 e-Tron will use the same battery as the ID4 and the ID3 pro S tour. The 77kWh . And if so the car will have a different charging curve. Not as good as the e-Tron 55 unfortunately.
According to pushevs.com/2020/04/04/comparison-of-different-ev-batteries-in-2020/ Audi, Porsche, Mercedes, Jaguar and Koreans seem to use pretty similar LG/SK "NMC 622" Chemistry cells with some differences in usable energy and therefore pack energy density. Thus i can not wait for first high-mileage SoH data for 400V Audi packs that saw lots of HPC charging. Is such information somewhere already? In case BMS quality is similar, Audi pack SoH should suffer a lot more?
Interesting, BMW iX3 will get NCM 811 battery cells. This explains why how insane its efficiency is despite being a SUV. ruclips.net/video/0kB_RLjFAp0/видео.html&t It can pull 150 kW like e-tron.
@@edgy21 with that average speed of 57km/h and ok weather, is it "insane efficiency "? When iX3 is really out it should be able to compete with some all-electric designs. Given it is late, heavy and not terribly fast, guess it will struggle to make a point.
Sorry to say that, but .. 4:40 that's so stupid. So, if you have a battery capacity of 10 kWh and you can charge 10-80 in 10 minutes that's the best battery? Or else... If you pay for a 80 kWh battery with a very large buffer of 30 kWh at the top and you can charge it with a very flat curve from 10 to 80% of usable energy that's the best charging curve? I don't wanna say anything bad about e-tron, very good charging curve indeed, but you have to consider at least three more things: 1) how many km you can do with that 10-80 charge 2) how much do you pay for that range (I suppose that e-tron it's so expensive even because a very large unused battery buffer) 3) how fast the battery degrades during the next years. Maybe Audi don't care about that because a lot of customers just lease the car for few years.
Some things to consider, perhaps: - Video could have started at ~5:00 and ended at ~ 10:00 - Total time 5 minutes of information and skip the additional 7 minutes of filler. - This test has been performed numerous times by other individuals. Perhaps try to find a new angle? - The charging efficiency is tied to several factors such as battery degradation, environment variables and discharge rate. Perhaps you can research one or all of these areas and talk about those some more in a follow-up? In the case of the e-Tron there is a genuine concern that the liberal BMS settings with respect to charging rate (among others) will have adverse effects on the factors above. Thank you for creating EV content, it is certainly needed!
You re allmost lost for words. This curve , every EV should have. EV adaptation will grow even way more faster. Imagine a PSA car charging 90KW till 80%. Waiting for the next generation ( as in Ioniq 5). 😉
Be even a better test if you did your test with well used cars, above 50,000miles (80,000km) that have done over 50% of their charging on chargers above 100Kw. There is a lack of real world experience out there for well used EVs, just tge odd scare story. Saw a piece where a 2018 Leaf had done 116,000 miles in the UK had a battery issue but was an easy repair. It had been 100% rapid charged.
I hate your e-tron 🤣🤣 It's crap.. Joking aside.. How the heck can the E-tron charge so fast in winter time? Just awesome. I'm so annoyed 🤣 What are they doing as others aren't? Will be exciting to see the charging/battery performance in the new E-tron GT, and more importantly the new Q4 E-tron.
It makes you wonder about the longevity of the audi battery pack if they are dumping this much power so quickly just to beat the Tesla. Reliability will be a concern.
I hate your S90 back, so no worries 😉 🙈 Audi uses the battery heater to heat the battery while charging, which is if you think about it very smart. Instead of heating the battery before charging and lossing range, you get maximum range and also have the benefit of pulling power from the charging to heat the battery when first connected. It's a different strategy than Tesla, and without Jo-jo driving would also look different initially. But if you look at the my last video with Bjørn, I get only like 69-70kW initially because of the cold, but then close to 150kW after 10-15mins :) Q4 E-tron is on the same platform as ID.3 that does not heat the battery, again ref the video with me and Bjørn. Hopefully Audi will include a battery heater for the Q4 E-tron. E-Tron GT is basically a re-skinned Porsche Taycan, so gain on a different platform that these two others, but Taycans charge even faster according to tests. Trying to get my hands on a Taycan though 😊
@@KrisRifa FYI, the Tesla heats the battery up whilst charging as well. And more FYI, the Tesla won’t preheat the battery if you don’t have enough range to get to the charger. Preheating should mean that as the battery is warmer when the car starts charging that it should charge faster and protect the battery more than dumping lots of amps into a cold battery. My Tesla OBD2 app shows it using 7kw whilst charging all the way up to 55C (with a couple of breaks at about 50C ish ). Most EVs could do with faster charging curves (except for the Taycan which seems to have a massive boner for lots of amps)
Competition is good for us consumers, and this will only force other auto makers to improve their products 😊 And I don't think anything, but the proof is in the pudding on this one.
Tesla is not alone anymore and it will not be enough coming with insane 0-100 specs. If Tesla forget the consumer (build quality, dealer network i.e.), trouble will come ! Don’t be blind by your God Elon and remember no one is for ever 1st...
@@zobof1er Musk's goal was and still is that all traditional car manufacturers switch to full electric 🤔, so the notion of competition is a success not an obstacle 😂😂. After the chronic over-consumption of energy and marketing, this is not the right approach for me. For the perceived quality 🙄, beware the easy criticism on the beginner from the experienced is not a source of pride 🤔, go back in the history of each brand and make the observation of the quality at the beginning . Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
@@paulogomes8762 Have a look on what Lucid is bringing or NIO or Mercedes with EQS, dont take for granted that Tesla and your God Elon will be taking the all EV market. Ah, not even talking about Toyota when will come with solid state batteries. I think Toyota knows a thing or two about building cars on scale ( and generate profits )
@@JoseLopes-uj4pr No need to worry about car manufacturers switching to electric cars! But not only marketing prototypes !!! And real dedicated platforms! Efficiency performance autonomy and charging networks !!! No worries ! Gentlemen followers 😂😂😂
As an Etron Q55 driver I only can say that I fully agree with Kris !
+ 1
That’s amazing charging curve, surprised that it beats Tesla! This is Audi’s first full electric SUV, can you imagine what they will have in a few years!
Yeah, Audi may have a very bright future 😊
It's even more impressive had the test gone further, eTron can hold 80kW up to 90%, 65kW to 95%, and 55kW to full. For charging after 80% it blows every other EV out of the water, and does triple the speed of Tesla.
Audi knows their customers and has done a great job delivering a superior charging experience and completely hiding battery degradation by using a large buffer; that is related to the efficiency issue. I will say that peak charging rate is very useful as a metric for the BEV driver - if you can achieve peak during a session, much of the curve is elevated as well and you have the right charger, battery temp, max Amps, etc. Good job getting peak under those conditions!
Kris, man another great 👍 video, and we also consistently get up to 151kW when charging my wife eTron! No matter the outside temperature!
As for the Tesla vs eTron on overall efficiency, I do think you are wrong when you compare Tesla model X P90D vs the eTron .. we previously own the P90D model X and it takes over an hours longer going on the same road trip 754 miles then the eTron.. so when you compare the Tesla model X with similar battery size the eTron is faster on real world trips .. so I truly don’t care about the car telling me I have great consumption but yet takes allot more time on doing real world long distance driving.. local driving our model X was more efficient but that’s about it ..
Also you should never Compare apples to oranges .. never compare model 3 vs eTron that does not make any sense.. two different class of cars and major different weight class as well .. if you really want to find out how efficient Tesla drivetrain is load up a Tesla model X 90D or P90D to the same weight as a eTron and go on a long drive .. and you will see Consumption similar to the eTron .. so sorry after owning both the model X and now the eTron, the eTron is hands down better is every way that really counts ..
the newer plaid or 2021 model X long range may be better now, but both has a bigger battery with allot more usable so can’t even compare them .. so you can only compare the P90D or the 90D model X vs the eTron 55 ... anything else and that’s apples to oranges pointless to compare with..
With that said yes, my model 3 is more efficient than other EV in the same class driving at slow speeds 65-70mph .. nothing can touch it at that speeds, but I would never compare my model 3 versus my eTron that’s pointless..
Hi Kris, thx to for your support and video. Fully agree! I owned so far 2 e-tron (19 & 21) and still happy. Record so far was 156kW. I am just waiting for Plug&charge option for my MIB3 SW. Looking forward
Thanks for watching 😊 That's awesome!
Nice video. Can you maybe get your hands on a BMW iX3 and do the same tests? Would be awesome! Some of the VW MEB Modells would be nice as well!
As soon as I can my hands on one 😁
That's an awesome charging curve indeed. I thought you were getting a little too deep in the T* coolaid for a while. Balance is a good thing. By the way I get from 6% to 81% in 22min when starting with battery at 82F. That's 188kW average on a Taycan 4S with the larger battery. I think that the Audi is #2 😁, number one for an SUV.
I am enjoying a lot your videos Kris. I am an e-tron owner, in Brazil. it is quite interesting to see the behavior of charging curve when using powerful charger. I think in Brazil we have just one unit of 150kw charger and it is in a Porsche store. It has been an awesome experience owning this car, it is amazing all the technologies Audi get onboard this model, it is my day by day vehicle and I am quite anxious to see the next e-tron GT model =D
Now that's a good looking charging curve!!
New subscriber - I’ve enjoyed your content via Bjørn’s channel, so here I am! 😃 Thx Kris 👍🏻
Thanks 😊
Vorsprung durch charging!!
True! 😊😊
Keep them coming Kris! I admit that I'm watching for both the tech side as well as the Norwegian scenery :-). When I do long trips I always go from 5% to 65/70% (Model 3 LR DM MY19), depending on the available chargers on the way. Considering that I travel in Germany most of the times the availability is extremely high. Every 100 km there's a tesla chargepoint and then you have Ionity, EnBW, Allego and others as well...... Short 200 km hops with around 15-20 minutes chargetime. With an E-tron I would also do 5-80% as a default probably. Just take every Ionity charger within 200-250km hops and you travel at really solid speeds.
Thanks mate 😊 In the E-Tron you would have similar travel time because of the faster charging from 5-80%, just look at the Norwegian High Speed Run where the E-Tron is only 18min behind the M3 LR. Considering the E-Tron is such larger car, that is actually quite impressive!
@@KrisRifa , Yeah really impressive! I also travel with a tent-trailer in summer to France and Spain (via Paris/A75). The only reason I do that with a Tesla M3 is the Supercharger network. Starting next year the Ionity corridor will be almost finished on my Antwerp-Lille-Paris-Clermont Ferrand route. That's when I'm surely considering moving to an E-tron 55. Last year it just wasn't an option. Especially after the corri-door 50 kW network going largely offline..... I have considered a Model X. But just don't like the looks of it. Could be nice video material post-corona. A race between you and Bjorn with a car of choice from NL to spain with a trailer. I volunteer in supplying a trailer ;-)
If you get an OBD2 adapter + app, you can indeed also preheat the battery before arriving at a charger. That will also allow you to read out the battery temperature, and how much power is used for battery heating while charging. Your Norwegian spec e-tron has 10 kW battery heating at disposal (vs 5 kW in warmer markets), but it might not use all of that. It would be interesting to do a test where you start with a really cold car, run battery preheating for an hour (through OBD2), and then drive to a nearby HPC charger. You should then get max charge rate - maybe even higher than in this video - without the need to first drive/jojo. Given your parking situation described in previous videos (outside, without a charger), that might have a benefit for you in everyday use, not only for testing.
This is very interesting! I will have to try this out my self :) Thanks!
Enig med Olaf. Har samme OBD-utstyr selv. Vi har dessverre ikke klart å bevise at e-tronen faktisk varmer batteriet automatisk under lading... Men har ikke testet med OBD-avlesing på lynlader ennå...
Brilliant - as you say all they have to sort out is the driving efficiency and hope that high power changing does not reduce the battery life I guess :)
That was why I choose the Etron 55 für me. its all about the charging kurve. However when ist es very cold una U drive to a HPC (50km distance) nor yoyo then the battery will be still cold and U get only 50-60 kWh ( @ about SOC 60). Like in the morning about 6:00 o clock. But hen that battery has its feel good temperature its fabulous.
Experiencing the same thing in my etron using our local Ionity. 63kW to start slowly ramping to a peak of 107kW.
I think its the charger though, throttling somewhat due to the cold. In summer/autumn the same charger delivers full speed.?!
E-tron 55 is on my personal EV top 3 list (in a good company with Taycan and Tesla Model S)
Great job 👍
Thanks 😊
Great vid, Kris! One more metric to consider is how many kilometers/miles are gained for each car's 10% to 80% recharging session.
Hi Kris, thank you for the interesting video 👍 Just one question a bit OT, Bjorn ordered a Model S Plaid+ are you going to surprise us by ordering the new E-Tron GT...😁😁
Thanks for watching! Hmmmm.... I've said it in the comments before. If the channel keeps growing and we hit 100k subs, I'll buy a Porsche Taycan! 😊😊🙈
@@KrisRifa Are you not interesting with E tron GT. It s and Audi and build on the same platform as the Taycan...
I think this is why I choose E-tron instead of Mercedes or Jaguar. One think that should be also considered that model 3 or S are not SUV like E-tron. Of course the bigger the car bigger the consumption is anyway but the comfort is very good and the car is dam slient. The other thing is in Nordic countries it is always good to drive rather high vehicle because you may stuck somewhere easily if you are not careful.(snow) Mercedes is something also could be considered however max charging speed is 100kw/h and AC charging speed is 7,2kw/h so Mercedes is still not there yet. One thing which I wanted to have when I ordered my E tron is to have the other AC charger on the other side with 22kw/h and that was not possible but may be now is.
Great video, an excellent summary of one of the most overlooked aspect of EV ownership.
Re: e-tron thirst... I think the e-tron gets a bad rep. In winter its not far away from Tesla S and X efficiency. Its a heavy, 4 wheeled drive, air suspensioned, quiet luxury machine. The efficiency is good in that respect. Look at the new SUV EVs hitting the market, they're not much more efficient whilst delivering fewer 'gadgets' and comfort and often RWD or FWD only...
Thanks a lot! That is so true! A friend of mine was always bragging about the range and charge speed of his Model S 75D. But when asked, it charged slower than my E-Tron and had similar range. Granted it has a smaller battery, but still.
@@KrisRifa Yea exactly that, combine the charge speed and range in Winter and you're likely to journey further, quicker in the e-tron. A model S owner I asked also reported similar winter consumption with their 85/90 model. Of course, Summer is a different story but that e-tron charge speed makes up for it a lot. Really enjoying mine but I always have my eye on the Model S as a potential next car, the latest model looks v enticing.
Great video!, 😃👍🏻
Can you please do this test with ID.3?
I have the ID.3 next week, so I’ll will be doing this test then 😊
@@KrisRifa Nice! Hope you do a lot of testing with the ID.3 in the same way you did with the Model 3 LR. Can't wait for your opinion.
Btw, were you driving in Bergen in your latest video named "DON'T buy a Tesla Model 3 before Watching This"?
Nice Jacket! 👌
Thanks! 😁
Hey car expert how are you doing today? Great video 👍👍👍👍 do you guys have Chrysler Pacifica hybrids over there?
No, not as hybrid, There are some (two) Pacifica petrol cars from 2017 for sale, and that`s it. I can`t even find a dealer that sells new Chryslers here in Norway.
I´m doing great 😊 They stopped selling Chryslers here years ago, but they where very popular here in 1990´s.
Does the VW ID4 charge at the same rate? Also I have to mention the Ioniq 5 will be able to charge at 800V. Basically Tesla has some serious competition coming.
I wonder why your E tron isn’t more efficient. I wonder if they can start fine tuning it’s consumption through software changes. Kris, I drive the E tron at our auto show last year and absolutely loved it. But it’s 90-100k dollars here. That is it’s really expensive. The build quality is beautiful and the Teslas aren’t even close to this type of luxury. I found the Model 3 to be really cheap looking inside. And I really didn’t like the interface.
Kris, could you try hooking up the e-tron to a Tesla Suoercharger to see if Tesla is already opening up to other brands ?
That's probably coming in a future video 😊
It doesn't work.
Impressive!
This is very impressive! What could be the drawback? Strain on the battery? Depletion? High level of cobalt? How come Tesla with their edge isnt matching this? 🤔
The Tesla was with the new battery. The thinking is that Tesla are being conservative with their charging curve until they know they can reliably charge faster without damaging the battery.
It's hard to say until these cars are five or ten years old. I think Audi have high levels of cobalt in their batteries, just look at 2021 Tesla M3 LR vs Performance (LG vs Panasonic battery) from Bjørns channel. Audi may have a different battery supplier and different access atm. Tesla sold more than 200k M3´s in 2020, while Audi "only" sold 50k E-Trons. Since Tesla also sell three other models they may also have problems with getting access. The Model 3 is also a much cheaper vehicle than the E-Tron, so there is more room for Audi to spend more money on the battery 😊
@@KrisRifa I belive that most manufacturers are having issues with battery supply. Tesla seem to be doing better as they actually make their own batteries (with Panasonic as a partner) so can dictate their mix of chemicals. They even have a lab that tests different ratios somewhere in North America in a University.
Before I bought my Tesla I tried to get a Kona EV but was told that there was a 12 month wait as there weren’t enough batteries available. This lead me to get the Tesla instead as I got one within a month.
This explains why Audi keeps selling a sh-ton of e-tron. They outsell ID3s in Norway this month! Audi earns handsome profits cuz e-tron is not cheap. :) I am looking forward to seeing Q4 e-tron, e-tron GT, and more. Since e-tron is 3 years old, I can image the facelifted e-tron would be better in many ways. 200kW and 280 "real world mile range"?
In Brazil e-tron 55 ia also number one in EV selling, and we are waiting anxiously for GT
@Kris Rifa Are you sure the car is using active battery heating during your charge sessions? We are some guys at elbilforum who have been doing various tests with OBD-tool connected to the car to read battery temperature and the activity in the PTC heat elements. We have not been able to see any evidence that the battery heater actually "kicks in" i any situation. I highly recomend you to ask Møller the following question: "WHAT ARE THE EXACT CONDITIONS THAT WILL TRIGGER THE BATTERY HEATER IN THE AUDI E-TRON?" And please tell us their answer! (Hopefully they will bother to answer you, since you are a known car tester. There is a lot of frustration out there concerning the leack of battery heating.
I can certainly ask Møller, and I understand what you´re saying. On the other hand the E-Tron is doing something that other ev´s aren´t because it actually can ramp up the speed like it does when it´s cold. And the car pulling 2 kW´s extra tells us that something is going on. But I cannot say with 100% certainty what is happening.
I totally agree that the e-tron is in another league, but still we are a lot of e-tron drivers who REALLY want to know an exact answer when it comes WHEN it heats the battery and when it doesn’t. So very thankful if you investigate that issue with Møller!
Also:
It would be interesting if you do the same 10-80 test with e-tron 50 in cold weather.. Seems like som users have had more issues with slow speed in cold weather with the 50....
Can you please make the 10-80%test on a 50kw charger? In many places here in Norway and also in many Europen Countries most chargers still deliver maximum speed of 50kw so the possibility of changing at 100-150kw chargers is still out of the equation for many people. I believe EQC, E-tron , I-Pace, Polestar, Taycan... are not much or even any faster than other cheaper cars with smaller battery packs (40-65 kwh) but also lower maximum charging speed up to 50-100kw. It is like having a hydrogen car... the theory sounds terrific but in the real world there is a lack of infrastructure in many places...
Try this test with mercedes eqc?
No, its not heating the battery if it is warmer than -10 degrees. When you have 140+ kw the temperature is perfect as it is
From the video you can see the car is pulling an extra 2kW´s from the charger, that is because it is heating the battery via the battery heater. If this wasn´t the case it wouldn't be pulling the extra power.
@@KrisRifa Are you sure? We are som guys at elbilforum who have been doing various tests with OBD-tool connected to the car to read battery temperature and the activity in the PTC heat elements. We have not been able to see any evidence that the battery heater actually "kicks in" i any situation. I highly recomend you to ask Møller the following question: "What are the conditions that will trigger the battery heater in the Audi e-tron?" (Hopefully they will bother to answer you, since you are a known car tester. There is a lot of frustration out there concerning the leack of battery heating.
Charging King, probably on par with Taycan
This battery pre-heating and “jojo-ing” i would like to fully understand. My etron now in winter does not start at 120 but at 60-70kw. Even though i did put the fast charger in the navigation.
Could you dig further into this pre-conditioning and if nothing automatic/intelligent exists: what does “jojo-ing” exactly mean ?
it is unfortunate the car has a poor efficiency, otherwise it would be the gold standard. Hopefully, we will see this charging curve in some more efficient model, maybe starting with the GT. Anyway, I think charging time should be measured between 10-90% SOC, as that would be the practical range of charge people would like to stay within in real conditions.
Hopefully we can push it to 10-90% in the future, but as current battery tech stands I think 10-80% is a nice compromise :) Even Bjørn is only doing 10-75%...
@@KrisRifa mine was more of a suggestion for you guys publicly pushing for it in your videos. And, I sometime disagree with Bjørn, so much so that he banned me twice! Even though, I believe, I have never come even close to people's comments he complains about in his video rants. You should tell him, he should learn to handle civilized criticism better! cheers
10 to 80 persent should be given in both time and km/hour. The last is more important than the first.
I agree, in UK it would be MPH, but that is what we drivers really need to know.
Bjørn does have that now in his TB Test google sheet. Look at the Range tab, he added a 10-75% charging data. I think he uses 75 because that's where Tesla's really start throttling. 😉
@@ronb4633 75%? I don't blame him cuz Bjørn is a huge tesla fan boy, so he always cherry-picks everything to make Tesla looking good and ahead of the competitors. Lame... Audi strongly believes in their products, so they proudly tell the buyers their capabilities. 10%-80% sounds better than 10%-75%.
what's the miles charged per hour
It's situations like this when miss the old times. Passat VR6, 15 liters of 98 octane, yeah slightly on the costly side, but yolo, right? In EVs, everyone's at perfectly zero CO2 and dicking around all day.
Ask Bjørn and do a 10-80% test on MC Hammer 🤩
Test the Audi OBD dongle!!!1
I will get one in the future :)
I’m afraid that the Audi Q4 e-Tron will use the same battery as the ID4 and the ID3 pro S tour. The 77kWh . And if so the car will have a different charging curve. Not as good as the e-Tron 55 unfortunately.
According to pushevs.com/2020/04/04/comparison-of-different-ev-batteries-in-2020/ Audi, Porsche, Mercedes, Jaguar and Koreans seem to use pretty similar LG/SK "NMC 622" Chemistry cells with some differences in usable energy and therefore pack energy density. Thus i can not wait for first high-mileage SoH data for 400V Audi packs that saw lots of HPC charging. Is such information somewhere already? In case BMS quality is similar, Audi pack SoH should suffer a lot more?
Very interesting article 😊 Thanks!
Interesting, BMW iX3 will get NCM 811 battery cells. This explains why how insane its efficiency is despite being a SUV. ruclips.net/video/0kB_RLjFAp0/видео.html&t It can pull 150 kW like e-tron.
@@edgy21 with that average speed of 57km/h and ok weather, is it "insane efficiency "? When iX3 is really out it should be able to compete with some all-electric designs.
Given it is late, heavy and not terribly fast, guess it will struggle to make a point.
Sorry to say that, but .. 4:40 that's so stupid.
So, if you have a battery capacity of 10 kWh and you can charge 10-80 in 10 minutes that's the best battery?
Or else... If you pay for a 80 kWh battery with a very large buffer of 30 kWh at the top and you can charge it with a very flat curve from 10 to 80% of usable energy that's the best charging curve?
I don't wanna say anything bad about e-tron, very good charging curve indeed, but you have to consider at least three more things:
1) how many km you can do with that 10-80 charge
2) how much do you pay for that range (I suppose that e-tron it's so expensive even because a very large unused battery buffer)
3) how fast the battery degrades during the next years. Maybe Audi don't care about that because a lot of customers just lease the car for few years.
AFAIK the quickest chargers in Sweden only charge up to 50 kW :(
Dude, you have both Ionity and Cicle K chargers in Sweden that go up to 350kW
@@KrisRifa Oh wow I didn’t know that. I charge at home and at free 50 kW chargers when needed on long trips. 😁
I’m owning etron 55 s .. in Swiss mostly 22kw chargers.. charging infrastructure for other ev cars ( than Tesla ) still have to improve a lot..
Just wish the car could get more Mileage ! 😎
Some things to consider, perhaps:
- Video could have started at ~5:00 and ended at ~ 10:00 - Total time 5 minutes of information and skip the additional 7 minutes of filler.
- This test has been performed numerous times by other individuals. Perhaps try to find a new angle?
- The charging efficiency is tied to several factors such as battery degradation, environment variables and discharge rate. Perhaps you can research one or all of these areas and talk about those some more in a follow-up? In the case of the e-Tron there is a genuine concern that the liberal BMS settings with respect to charging rate (among others) will have adverse effects on the factors above.
Thank you for creating EV content, it is certainly needed!
You re allmost lost for words.
This curve , every EV should have. EV adaptation will grow even way more faster. Imagine a PSA car charging 90KW till 80%.
Waiting for the next generation ( as in Ioniq 5). 😉
Hi Kris. It's a pitty that it's so thirsty. That will be the key for the future.
Be even a better test if you did your test with well used cars, above 50,000miles (80,000km) that have done over 50% of their charging on chargers above 100Kw. There is a lack of real world experience out there for well used EVs, just tge odd scare story. Saw a piece where a 2018 Leaf had done 116,000 miles in the UK had a battery issue but was an easy repair. It had been 100% rapid charged.
I hate your e-tron 🤣🤣 It's crap..
Joking aside.. How the heck can the E-tron charge so fast in winter time? Just awesome. I'm so annoyed 🤣
What are they doing as others aren't? Will be exciting to see the charging/battery performance in the new E-tron GT, and more importantly the new Q4 E-tron.
It makes you wonder about the longevity of the audi battery pack if they are dumping this much power so quickly just to beat the Tesla. Reliability will be a concern.
@ Clive Flint, he already drove more than 50 000 km and has no issues obviously
I hate your S90 back, so no worries 😉 🙈
Audi uses the battery heater to heat the battery while charging, which is if you think about it very smart. Instead of heating the battery before charging and lossing range, you get maximum range and also have the benefit of pulling power from the charging to heat the battery when first connected. It's a different strategy than Tesla, and without Jo-jo driving would also look different initially. But if you look at the my last video with Bjørn, I get only like 69-70kW initially because of the cold, but then close to 150kW after 10-15mins :)
Q4 E-tron is on the same platform as ID.3 that does not heat the battery, again ref the video with me and Bjørn. Hopefully Audi will include a battery heater for the Q4 E-tron. E-Tron GT is basically a re-skinned Porsche Taycan, so gain on a different platform that these two others, but Taycans charge even faster according to tests. Trying to get my hands on a Taycan though 😊
@@darthrevan9144 15 000kms 😊😊
@@KrisRifa FYI, the Tesla heats the battery up whilst charging as well. And more FYI, the Tesla won’t preheat the battery if you don’t have enough range to get to the charger. Preheating should mean that as the battery is warmer when the car starts charging that it should charge faster and protect the battery more than dumping lots of amps into a cold battery.
My Tesla OBD2 app shows it using 7kw whilst charging all the way up to 55C (with a couple of breaks at about 50C ish ).
Most EVs could do with faster charging curves (except for the Taycan which seems to have a massive boner for lots of amps)
Think of the futur power train of Tesla 🤔, you really think Audi Beats Tesla 😂😂😂🙄
Competition is good for us consumers, and this will only force other auto makers to improve their products 😊 And I don't think anything, but the proof is in the pudding on this one.
Tesla is not alone anymore and it will not be enough coming with insane 0-100 specs. If Tesla forget the consumer (build quality, dealer network i.e.), trouble will come ! Don’t be blind by your God Elon and remember no one is for ever 1st...
@@zobof1er Musk's goal was and still is that all traditional car manufacturers switch to full electric 🤔, so the notion of competition is a success not an obstacle 😂😂.
After the chronic over-consumption of energy and marketing, this is not the right approach for me.
For the perceived quality 🙄, beware the easy criticism on the beginner from the experienced is not a source of pride 🤔, go back in the history of each brand and make the observation of the quality at the beginning .
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
@@paulogomes8762 Have a look on what Lucid is bringing or NIO or Mercedes with EQS, dont take for granted that Tesla and your God Elon will be taking the all EV market. Ah, not even talking about Toyota when will come with solid state batteries. I think Toyota knows a thing or two about building cars on scale ( and generate profits )
@@JoseLopes-uj4pr No need to worry about car manufacturers switching to electric cars! But not only marketing prototypes !!! And real dedicated platforms! Efficiency performance autonomy and charging networks !!! No worries ! Gentlemen followers 😂😂😂
Just one question : how much cobalt in Audi Battery ????
Jerk. How much cobalt in any battery?
Less than 3% in actual Tesla Battery 🤔
@@paulogomes8762 the same as the others...
@@zobof1er sure ?
I cant find that data, but I do know that Audi reckon that 90% is recoverable.