I've seen a pack that was paired with different straps a short while ago, though I don't think they were meant for this pack as the configuration didn't make sense but it was interesting nonetheless and possibly part of another trial set of the era. The straps were like updated L-straps, even having the exact buckles that can clip onto brace attachments or other rings that could be on top of ammo pouches, but there was also a cheststrap and it looked like they might have been attached at the top of both shoulder ends where the clips attach to the frame rings, like the nylon being in a sort of V-shape coming from the pack. Aside from the buckles not making sens with the rest of the webbing there's another reason I thought it wásn't original to the pack, which is that the frame itself was the later type with the normal wire rings instead of the stamped plate rings on the early type frames.
It might have been part of a trial set that did use some parts of the "P72" webbing like the beltbuckle system, it also have a V-shaped yoke. I have no idea how to call this one though, I only have a photo of it from some document or another showing it from the inside and it's description is just "fighting order load-carrying harness"
My 1975 pattern Rucksack is slightly different, the nylon with the frame loops in, has loops repeated along it's length. The shoulder straps on mine are1970s dated, but I can't quite work out the last number, I assume they're original to the rucksack. It's interesting that the UK Government report "The Demise of the 1975 Pattern Design" refers to the whole equipment as PLCE.
I had watched a documentary on the Falklands war this bank holiday weekend and on an original piece of film from the landing’s at San Carlos I saw a paratrooper wearing what I thought was the later SAS/PARA or GS Bergen I did not stop the video to look closer but I did wonder at the time? Now all answered and clear thanks for another enlightening video!
Not having seen that specific clip I can suggest (but not confirm) that what you saw could have been any of the three - the SAS Rucksack, the trials 75 Pattern bergen and the subsequent issued GS Bergen (although on limited issue) were all available in 1982.
@@badgertheskinnycow I do really doubt that this pack ever went to the Falklands, never heard from veterans or seen it in images. Bergan GS/SAS, Arctic Bergan RM, Civi issued Bergan, cant remember their name, mainly in a dark blue, went to the Guards i think...... and some poor bastards left with a "58" pack.
Great video thanks. I have a 1971 dated example on a 1972 frame and that came with the same design of shoulder strap, just a more brown colour to the detailing. The later straps were more of a defined green colour. The thing that stands out on all the 72/75 kit is how flimsy the black clips are compared to the US counterpart. Probably why most of these packs have at least one that's broken! Really poor quality which lets down an otherwise great design!
When you wear this frame, do you wear it with the cushion band at your waist or higher? Do you think if the frame had effective load-lifters that it would be more useful and comfortable?
Must have been fun untying knots when wet and frozen. Major improvement on 58 pattern. Smaller than a large pack, well ,saved carrying all the stupid SOP, that BAOR said,i.e. pumps.
Yes, never understood why you had to take pumps as part of the SOP, always hated the 58 pat pack, uncomfortable and the sleeping bag just used to push the helmet over your face whenever you got in the prone position.
@@markjoiner470 Someone should list somewhere, on some channel, exactly what was in their BAOR Active Edge Kit. Not what people thought should be in there, but what SOP's SACEUR said you had to.
It was mostly crap , PT top and shorts , plimsoles , spare boots , spare laces and some useful stuff like socks , shirts etc It was typical stupidity .
@@Rkolb2798 A typical "let's make it as difficult as possible attitude",if this Bergen became issue what would have been SOP load. I kept my L pack as SOP for inspection, but used a similar sized Bergen with what I needed and used in field.O.C did it so I did it. If the Army issue of boots was fit for use you didn't need spare boots . Some much better kit was out there but never issued, now available on eBay 35 years later.
@@markjoiner470 Still issued to this day by the Royal Netherlands Marines for the past 30 years/ish. Berghaus ROC used by British marines in the 1980's, search Falklands pics. Shop in Exeter Devon called Blacks, supplied nearly all Marines that finished training, with their one and only needed Rucksack, the Berghaus Roc. Other models improved over the years but were still private purchased.
Is there any operational reason this rucksack didn't have a belt or even a chest strap? Or is it just something that wouldn't have been considered necessary in the 1970s?
Most Infantry soldiers will tell you a bergen belt is cumbersome when wearing webbing and unnecessary. The British Army avoided them until trials in the mid 1980s. Even then reports were mixed and even though the final PLCE 90 Bergen had a belt it was often taped up out of the way and not used. Likewise a chest strap. Being able to expand the chest during exertion and being able to ditch the pack quickly being more important considerations. The main exception being Arctic bergens - where pack stability when on skis is an important factor.
Most armies the world over now issue packs with chest and waist straps and as mentioned above, 90% of people won't use it or will use it incorrectly. You need to be able to get your pack off ASAP when the shooting starts.
Not true - 1958 Pattern webbing was way better than the US webbing of the same time. We also had a universal issue of a good camouflage combat uniform prior to the US (ERDL and even Woodland was a limited issue) - just to name a couple.
The problem was we still had the 1958 pattern webbing into the early 90's and by the mid 80's the combat uniform was appalling. We viewed US troops in Germany with envy.
@@brodequin8261 I was serving during the 80s and into the 90s. I would say some of their kit was better and some of ours was too. For example it took the US over forty years to appreciate the GPMG and the Carl Gustav 84mm that we had in the 1960s!
Well that tells me where Canada got the 82 pattern ruck idea from..It is a nice ruck....question about where the side pouches are are they slotted as in can you pass items through the back of them ?
We all know what that ruck smells like when you opened it to show the large compartment.
Quite a good pack , the GS bergen was certainly a big improvement over the 58 largepack, if you binned the frame even better
I've seen a pack that was paired with different straps a short while ago, though I don't think they were meant for this pack as the configuration didn't make sense but it was interesting nonetheless and possibly part of another trial set of the era.
The straps were like updated L-straps, even having the exact buckles that can clip onto brace attachments or other rings that could be on top of ammo pouches, but there was also a cheststrap and it looked like they might have been attached at the top of both shoulder ends where the clips attach to the frame rings, like the nylon being in a sort of V-shape coming from the pack.
Aside from the buckles not making sens with the rest of the webbing there's another reason I thought it wásn't original to the pack, which is that the frame itself was the later type with the normal wire rings instead of the stamped plate rings on the early type frames.
It might have been part of a trial set that did use some parts of the "P72" webbing like the beltbuckle system, it also have a V-shaped yoke. I have no idea how to call this one though, I only have a photo of it from some document or another showing it from the inside and it's description is just "fighting order load-carrying harness"
My 1975 pattern Rucksack is slightly different, the nylon with the frame loops in, has loops repeated along it's length.
The shoulder straps on mine are1970s dated, but I can't quite work out the last number, I assume they're original to the rucksack.
It's interesting that the UK Government report "The Demise of the 1975 Pattern Design" refers to the whole equipment as PLCE.
Personal Load Carriage/carrying Equipment was a British Military term used at least since the post-WW2 period and possibly earlier.
I had watched a documentary on the Falklands war this bank holiday weekend and on an original piece of film from the landing’s at San Carlos I saw a paratrooper wearing what I thought was the later SAS/PARA or GS Bergen I did not stop the video to look closer but I did wonder at the time? Now all answered and clear thanks for another enlightening video!
Not having seen that specific clip I can suggest (but not confirm) that what you saw could have been any of the three - the SAS Rucksack, the trials 75 Pattern bergen and the subsequent issued GS Bergen (although on limited issue) were all available in 1982.
@@badgertheskinnycow I do really doubt that this pack ever went to the Falklands, never heard from veterans or seen it in images. Bergan GS/SAS, Arctic Bergan RM, Civi issued Bergan, cant remember their name, mainly in a dark blue, went to the Guards i think...... and some poor bastards left with a "58" pack.
Great video realy enjoyed that one, would it be possible to make a video about the RM Arctic Bergan's of a similar design and material ?
Great video thanks. I have a 1971 dated example on a 1972 frame and that came with the same design of shoulder strap, just a more brown colour to the detailing. The later straps were more of a defined green colour.
The thing that stands out on all the 72/75 kit is how flimsy the black clips are compared to the US counterpart. Probably why most of these packs have at least one that's broken! Really poor quality which lets down an otherwise great design!
When you wear this frame, do you wear it with the cushion band at your waist or higher? Do you think if the frame had effective load-lifters that it would be more useful and comfortable?
Is that what the NI Patrol pack 30L is modeled off?
If they had kept this and simply worked on the design all the problems with the 58 pattern pack could have been avoided.
Must have been fun untying knots when wet and frozen. Major improvement on 58 pattern. Smaller than a large pack, well ,saved carrying all the stupid SOP, that BAOR said,i.e. pumps.
Yes, never understood why you had to take pumps as part of the SOP, always hated the 58 pat pack, uncomfortable and the sleeping bag just used to push the helmet over your face whenever you got in the prone position.
@@markjoiner470 Someone should list somewhere, on some channel, exactly what was in their BAOR Active Edge Kit. Not what people thought should be in there, but what SOP's SACEUR said you had to.
It was mostly crap , PT top and shorts , plimsoles , spare boots , spare laces and some useful stuff like socks , shirts etc It was typical stupidity .
@@Rkolb2798 A typical "let's make it as difficult as possible attitude",if this Bergen became issue what would have been SOP load. I kept my L pack as SOP for inspection, but used a similar sized Bergen with what I needed and used in field.O.C did it so I did it. If the Army issue of boots was fit for use you didn't need spare boots . Some much better kit was out there but never issued, now available on eBay 35 years later.
Im surprised they went with plastic D-rings that seems like a bad idea from jump street
Ohhh…interesting. A friend of mine in the AAC had one in 1983. I always wondered how he acquired it. I see the owner was a 2438….1976 or so.
The best Bergens were the ones you had to buy yourself - i.e the Vulcan one.
Yes, the Berghaus Vulcan is still a great Bergen.
@@markjoiner470 Still issued to this day by the Royal Netherlands Marines for the past 30 years/ish. Berghaus ROC used by British marines in the 1980's, search Falklands pics. Shop in Exeter Devon called Blacks, supplied nearly all Marines that finished training, with their one and only needed Rucksack, the Berghaus Roc. Other models improved over the years but were still private purchased.
I would not give that to a 10 year old to go camping with.
Is there any operational reason this rucksack didn't have a belt or even a chest strap? Or is it just something that wouldn't have been considered necessary in the 1970s?
Most Infantry soldiers will tell you a bergen belt is cumbersome when wearing webbing and unnecessary. The British Army avoided them until trials in the mid 1980s. Even then reports were mixed and even though the final PLCE 90 Bergen had a belt it was often taped up out of the way and not used. Likewise a chest strap. Being able to expand the chest during exertion and being able to ditch the pack quickly being more important considerations. The main exception being Arctic bergens - where pack stability when on skis is an important factor.
@@badgertheskinnycow Thank you for the info!
@@badgertheskinnycow Agree.
Most armies the world over now issue packs with chest and waist straps and as mentioned above, 90% of people won't use it or will use it incorrectly.
You need to be able to get your pack off ASAP when the shooting starts.
We are always playing catch up with US Army systems
Not true - 1958 Pattern webbing was way better than the US webbing of the same time. We also had a universal issue of a good camouflage combat uniform prior to the US (ERDL and even Woodland was a limited issue) - just to name a couple.
The problem was we still had the 1958 pattern webbing into the early 90's and by the mid 80's the combat uniform was appalling. We viewed US troops in Germany with envy.
@@brodequin8261 I was serving during the 80s and into the 90s. I would say some of their kit was better and some of ours was too. For example it took the US over forty years to appreciate the GPMG and the Carl Gustav 84mm that we had in the 1960s!
@@badgertheskinnycow Yes I preferred the Charlie G to the 94mm Law.
Very true. And the US is always playing catch up with UK training/ tactics etc.
looks like a smaller version of my old Para bergen..
Fun fact - there is no such item as a Para Bergen. There is an SAS Rucksack which you may mean.
An interesting what might have been. Not sure my spine would approve of that frame however
This bergen (with minor modifications) was accepted into service following the trials and was later a GS issue item from c1984.
@@badgertheskinnycow You sure that's 84?
Same straps as SAS/PARA pack.
Well that tells me where Canada got the 82 pattern ruck idea from..It is a nice ruck....question about where the side pouches are are they slotted as in can you pass items through the back of them ?
No - not on the GS Bergen.