When it happens, I tend to learn different things from your reviews of truly excellent speakers. 1. Just learning how high the bar is set is useful. 2. Learning that it can be done, at some cost and engineering effort. 3. That powered speakers (as I suspected) don't have to be wicked stepsisters to passive ones. 4. That, despite 90% of us trying to make "a silk purse out of a sow's ear," there exist speakers that have far better performance than just the snob appeal we've come to find in so many "hifi" speakers that try to equate price with music quality. [I don't trust subjective-only reviews anymore, especially because experience shows these folks are heavily influenced by price.] And a big 5. That if my budget were not a constraint, I have a choice between large, room domnating speakers, and less obtrusive stand-mount speakers, without remorse. I feel privileged to hear of their existence. I might drive a few hundred miles to hear a pair of these, in person. It could be a costly trip to my retirement account.
I somehow convinced myself if this is going to be that one speaker ever need push my budget and get it done. 5k is a huge sum for me. Then I noticed it’s 5k a piece. Back to square one
It’s DAC/volume/room correction/amplifier so basically competing with Kii3 and 8C. I’d choose the Kii3 at this budget due to it’s amazingly stylish and functional remote.
I have some small, older Genelcs (8020A) that I use with my PC, and they have been absolutely fantastic. If I had the budget and were in the market for a new setup, these would be at the top of my list.
10k sounds like a lot, but when you factor in that they're powered and all you really need is a source and a volume option, combined with that frequency response and build quality, it's not a bad deal at all really. They are not SO friendly, that's for sure!
It sounds crazy to say this, but this is probably the best bang for buck speaker on the market - active OR passive. It's literally a perfect speaker in every way, and puts damn near anything under six figures to shame.
I’ve used Genelec monitors for over 40 years. The only reservation I’ve had about them was finally answered by their 8300 series, bringing full range point source to the party. Point source speakers have featured in every control room I’ve built for myself and Genelecs, as wonderful as they sounded, broke that hard rule of mine. When I saw these I knew they had to be special because Genelec doesn’t break new ground easily. Thank you so much for your detailed analysis. Your results are about what I hoped for and in some ways exceeded my expectations. $10k is not out of line to studio professionals for a full range stereo reference system. Making the leap to integrate the woofer into the point source, and doing so well, makes this a solid buy for any studio.
As an 8030A owner, I am seriously looking to finally upgrade after 16+ happy years to the 'Ones'. Probably just the 8341 - so one size larger than what I have now, but obviously all the new 3-way goodness. I use them for making music at my desk so couldn't really fathom the larger models.
Bought a 5.1 set of speakers (Arendal 1723 + 1723 sub2S) close enough to the cost of 2 of these 8361’s last year. About 1.5-2 months later I bought Genelecs 8020D studio monitors for my computer and they blew me away. Ever since I’ve always been wondering if I should have just bought the 2 x 8361’s instead of my 5.1 setup… And you have just confirmed I probably should have… Mixed feelings now… Awesome review Amir, awesome to see your enthusiasm and how this speaker has impressed you.
@@nicholastoo858 It all depends what you are looking for I think. I bought the Arendals as a home cinema setup with 50/50 use of movies/music. In my opinion the Arendals are not the most musical speaker, although they’re still quite good - don’t get me wrong. Where the Arendal’s really shine is with home cinema, there they are absolutely stunning. For movie usage the Arendals are hard to beat I think - especially for the money. Can’t imagine wanting better speakers for movie usage. Their subs are also absolutely fantastic. But for me, music sound quality is equally or even more important and I love the neutral representation and level of detail the 8020’s give me, and I assume that these 8361’s are way ahead of those.. Now I have a bit of a “what if” feeling. But we also need to put it in perspective, a 5.1/5.2 setup with Genelec 8361 will be approx. 4-5x as expensive as with Arendal. For movies I don’t believe these are going to be worth the extra cost, but for music it’s going to be a different story - for me at least..
Or do like I have done. 5.1 setup with Genelecs. Not 8361s yet but LCR is 8050s. Well subs are DIY so far, not yet Genelec subs due to budget limitations.
@@karoliinasalminen 5.1 with any Genelec model powerful enough to fill the room would be amazing. At the time when I bought the Arendals I didn’t know of Genelec. Having said that, for movies the Arendals are spectacular. I don’t need anything more. It’s mainly for music listening where I would prefer the Genelecs and where they would add the most value to me. If space will ever be a limiting factor, the big Genelecs are on top of my list. But most likely in a 2.0 setup.
@@nicholastoo858 I've been playing around a bit with the toe-in of my 1723 tower. Perhaps it's also that these speakers are now properly run-in and/or I've become adjusted to them. But I now also thoroughly enjoy these 1723 towers for music. As long as there's sufficient space, these 1723 speakers aren't going anywhere. If however, space will ever become a limiting factor, the Genelecs are on top op my wish list.
Browsing their website awhile ago and this looked like a beast of a speaker. Needless to say the measurements don't disappoint. Now all you need to go with them is the 7382A subwoofer array. Retaining functional hearing after use is optional.
@@morespinach9832 "I dont listen to electronic and hip hope genres". There is no speaker on earth that does not befit from a sub, and there never will be.
Thanks for an interesting and informative review! I've been using the 8361a speakers for a year now for mixing and mastering as well as pleasure listening. My room is 20 x 36 ft with 14 foot raftered ceilings and the Genelecs fill it with sound that is natural, dynamic, 3 dimensional, and they create a very focused sound stage image. The room correction software works very well, but my room didn't need much correction as it's quite well balanced to begin with. I never find them fatiguing no matter how many hours I work with them. Part of the reason, I believe, is that accurate imaging is less fatiguing to the brain and ears. Having used several other speakers in the past (PMC IB2s, Adam S2V, and KMR ATC SCM20A SL Pro, although in a smaller room) I will say with confidence that Genelec is the superior speaker in all regards.
How big is your Stereo Triangle? And how did you placed them close to the front wall? I'm just wondering if they also work in a smaller room as near fields?
@@Vocalisto Also curious as my room is only 12' foot by 10' foot with 8' foot ceiling. I understand x2 of these for me are probably overkill for room size but I just want to make sure my small room won't give these speakers problems in terms of audio.
@@Vocalisto The speakers are 64 inches apart (from centre of each tweeter) and 64 inches to my listening position. I've since added a Genelec subwoofer. In a smaller room you would probably want to go with the 8351 or 8341 and one of their subs. Genelecs can be used as near-field monitors and they are great. The newest GLM software for room calibration is fantastic too.
@@tvm2209 You would be better off with one of the smaller Genelecs like the 8351 or even the next one down. Mine are 64 inches apart and 64 inches from my listening position. I've since added one of their subwoofers too. The newest version of the GLM room correction software is fantastic and will improve the sound in any room. Cheers!
As A Speaker Builder Of Too Many Years, Going back to Early Eighties, Due to Downsizing of Accommodation ( Wife Passed, Children Flown ) I Have Genelec Setup , 8030B x 2 and Matching Subwoofer.Best 700Euro Spent Ever. This is A Manufacturer Devoid Of Snake Oil
Happy to see you finally got hold of Genelec co-ax 3-ways. Good to see how it performs in figures. I'm very happy with my 8341A and 8351B which has very similar sound signature due to the design. Only thing that differs is the low frequency extension which frankly is not that big a difference. The 8341A plays big even in the smaller size (as it's designed for critical near field listening in small environment.) One note: With the DSP and GLM software you can easily assign a sound signature adding bass (also good to add some bass after the room correction which is only attenuating frequencies to avoid phase issues as much as possible). So all processing is made inside the speaker.
I converted by Studio Set-up (BlueSky Sky Sat + sub 2.1 speakers) to home use and they are absolutely outstanding - aside from the multiple wires running around it matches "audiophile" grade speakers costing multiple times more. I can imagine this takes it even futher
the differences are not as mindblowing as you think. 8331,8341,8351,8361 are playing on the same high Level in terms of performance. I heard all Models side by side and for me the differences (in a treated room) are hearable yes, but a W371 or a Sub from Genelec would be a better investment. And the 8361 are big, very big. At the end you cant go wrong with any genelec
@@vtkz I'm looking at 8331 or 8341 as a set of alt speakers at the studio. My concern is that 8331 may not go loud enough as it has much smaller amps. But apparently the noise floor is much lower than the 8341. 8341 (no sub) seems like it may be the sweet spot financially for our smallish 15x12 (11h) control room. Have tried many speakers but the room is just tough to deal with.
I think the waterfall plot is a very useful tool. You can put in a filter to flatten out a frequency response but a waterfall plot will give the game away.
Studio monitors always offer better bang for buck. Amp-matching is such a nonsense mission for most people. Buying an active speaker will nearly always be the performance per dollar choice
Excellent review of an amazingly good measuring speaker Amir. You explained the measurements very clearly. Already 16 pages on your website in a lttle over one day of posting it. You already bought the Dune soundtrack by Zimmer. I hope you enjoyed my fellow Québécois Denis Villeneuve's adaptation of that great sci-fi novel.
It’s an interesting soundtrack. For some reason, I imagined a new Dune film to sound a bit closer to William Walton’s first symphony in tone and theme, a bit like Previn’s energetic recording of it in 1966, but Zimmer’s soundtrack was sufficiently memorable.
Amir, you just know how to make me drool. It was your review that helped me decide between the 8050B and the Footprint01 - went with the Gennies, saved quite a lot and am really happy. Can't thank you enough! This set is now officially on my dream speaker list along with the MicroMain27. I'd love it if you had a chance to measure the MM27 as well, since it's impossible to find anything detailed about online and no dealers are carrying it around me, but EDM guys (like myself) seem to like it a lot.
Dying to hear your review of the Elac Unifi Reference bookshelf speakers before Black Friday. Trying to choose between them and the Debut Reference which you gave a positive review of. Thank you for your excellent assessments!
That's what you get when the company work a proper industrial/product designer (Harri Koskinen). Sound technique and product design married as it should.
If I ever get an amazing job when I'm older, these will probably be the speakers I will buy for my home theatre. For now I'll stick to my DIY active transmission lines. Very budget, but probably the best you can get for the budget, so I'm happy for now.
That’s the key. Find what your happy with and stick with. The Law of diminishing returns can’t be ignored. You can’t spend many thousands and still be not happy.
@@thegroove2000 I mean, I probably would be able to tell the difference, so would buy if I had enough excess to spend in the future. But for now I'm just happy to have an ideal in-room response from 20hz to 20khz below Xmax with tweeter at 75db (what I'm able to get with the £300 DIY transmission line). Do I want it to have lower distribution, yes, but I'm happy with it for now, and probably for quite a few decades too!
I do not usually care too much about measurements in reviews, but this one was very interesting to listen to, as I learnt why and how the speaker is engineered the way it is. Nothing here is random, everything exists solely for an engineering outcome, and nothing is about some vague “we built a speaker that renders the soul and musicality of an Italian 18th century violin played by a master…. And you can see that in the 5000 dollar optional wood finish and contours shaped like a Tuscany maiden, and…” etc. BS. And no, it still does not look ugly or weird at all. Even the name is OK since it is part of a series of tools. Were it a “HiFi” product it would be named after some legendary antediluvian cyclop with a romantic suffix like “opus” or “musica” or “heritage”.
A lot of hi-end audio is good, but far from excellent plus the never ending upgrade,because you feel something is lacking. Amir, you changed my world and maybe some other audio enthusiasts.
Nice review. Here in Finland it seems to me that lots of hifiguys have turned to these genelecs. Now they are tweaking dsp instead of interconnects, but they are still tweaking:) Nice sounding speakers but not so nice looking.
@@AudioScienceReview They are priced similarly, approx. 5000 €/ pc. Not sure if these big ones are that common here, but genelecs (smaller models) in general, are quite popular. People use them with tv in living rooms (tv sound and music). If you have all white living rooms (scandinavian style), wifes dont mind having small white "eggs" on tv stand.
Hey Amir!! Thank you for the video. So great. Please do a video about "Pro-Audio Power supply cables" because my father just bought 3 cables for 150 euros each, they are 1 meter long and for my father they improve the audio so much. They are the Analysis-Plus Pro Power Oval MK2. He has XLR cables from that company too. Please I really want to make him understand that its all Placebo. He use all his equipment for doing live karaoke (and by the way he thinks that the jack output from a Macbook air 2021 will be way better than the DAC that i gifted him, the Soncoz La-Qxd1, LOL). Hoping you will read this!!!
Very good channel. I really enjoy every test. Genelec has different chassis in the smaller speakers and the transition frequency to the midrange is higher. This is a dynamic problem for the bass. Here the transition from bass to midrange is already from 300 Hz and I suspect if the mid-high range could be even lower, e.g. 200 Hz, an increase (unbelievable) could be achieved again. Obviously, Genelec has also significantly strengthened the bass chassis. I would be interested in how the speakers sound at a very low volume. (RMS of the bass chassis could, because they can obviously make a large stroke and have to withstand the large amplifier power, have a higher mechanical resistance, which could lead to dynamic fading in the very quiet area) If you perform practically consistently in this area then this is probably a limit in terms of audio technology which was achieved. Admirable. Thanks for this channel.
Great speakers, i wish the dispersion was wider but near perfect otherwise. Might be the LCR in my future listening space/HT or maybe the smaller 8351…
Just because one cannot afford a piece of gear, does not mean they cannot appreciate it. You are not one to gush over gear that it doesn’t warrant it. Much like the Dan Clark Stealth headphones, I will have to wait to win the lottery and be happy in what I have knowing that I will miss out. Praise earned by you is high praise. Wished it was my pair you had. Oh well, maybe someday. Stay safe mates!😊👍🏻😷
If you're missing the scale maybe have a go at setting up 11 of these in an Auro-3D configuration, and use auromatic on your music 😂. I'm laughing at how expensive it would be, but I've found auromatic portrays spaciousness extremely ideally, so might be a bit of fun if you're able to Amir! Thanks for the amazing review as always!
Being Finnish Genelec's are the norm. You can see then in elementary school AV rooms.. Kind of ridiculous how high standards that sets, when i was active in the field i always worked with Genelecs, they were available in every facility and gear rental.
Hello Amir, I know this isn’t the model on this video, but I would like you to do one on the Genelec 8050B. This powered speaker utilizes class A/B amplifiers to power the drivers. I am interested in this one as I feel class A/B amplifiers to produce a cleaner, more organic sound. If you did a video, it would be fair and true. There may be others who would like to see it as well. It isn’t a cheap speaker, around $2,300 per speaker. It is, however, less expensive than the one in this video. I have plans to use this in my home studio so I have an interest in it because of that. Your opinion is based on real world facts and data. That makes it more valid than other reviewers on this platform. What do you say? If someone has them that are not being used or can loan them to you, that would be helpful. I appreciate your evaluations as they are honest and truthful, even if it isn’t flattering. The truth isn’t always pretty! This will help me make a sound decision based on facts and truth. Stay safe my mates!😊👍🏻😷 I found your review on these so thank you anyway!😁
Staggering performance measurements, if I weren't such a sucker for the fun of separates I do indeed believe these would be an endgame consideration for me. $10k is also honestly a bargain for something like this, one could very easily spend a WHOLE lot more chasing the system synergy and performance these offer as standard; and still possibly fall short in the end. If technical perfection is what you seek, then good production-oriented equipment is what you want. Such products are designed primarily as tools, and are thus largely freed from the burden of trying to keep up with fickle sonic and aesthetic trends that might get in the way.
Would you honestly put these speakers up against some of the best in the business? I'm also considering the Dutch & Dutch 8C. I have a rather large room and wonder if pairing up the 8361A with one of their big subs would fit the bill. I like to listen very critically.
If anyone really knows, i have a sincere question. Will these work for LCR in home theater? At most, I would sit 3m away. Because of the Inverse Square Law, to achieve 105dbpk at the MLP, you’d be shooting 114dbpk at 1m. Most of a movie at reference usually hovers between 79-96db at the MLP which would be 88-104db at 1m. That seems like the limiter would be engaged often if listening to a movie at reference volume, right? Or does the limiter only engage when performing a measurement sweep due to the duration of the tone at a constant volume and the limiter wouldn’t constantly engage on more dynamic, real-world music and movie material?
Hehe. :) Been having a hard time finding the time to do more. Fell behind so much in reviews during summer with gardening and such that no time was left to do videos.
Wow, great review! IMHO desktop computers and bookshelf/floorstanding speakers should have handles built in! Much as I dislike Apple they did get that right years ago.
Genelec itself claims that all their speakers have the same sound image and sound quality. What separates the smallest and cheapest from the largest and most expensive is simply bass response and power
I agree that matching woofer from a bookshelf with a subwoofer is a never ending push and pull, each time I put my nose into that problem i come up with a little different solution than the last. The way I achieve best results is by playing pink noise from each speaker then understand where the ideal domain of each is ending. Then use DSP to cup a little shorter than that, but with a (not the sharpest) slope. I create a little gap (usually where a room mode is) so that they play distinctly. My room modes are about 125hz and 60hz, so I let play my bookshelf down to 75hz and my subwoofer receive only what is below 50hz. Adjusting the slopes of the filter so that room modes don't shop up. So maybe I am missing tiny parts of the music, but it's better to have less than too much. This method (to me) allow most tunes I play to sound wonderful, even in this inappropriate untreated room.
Great Review!! Thank you for that! I am Curious to how your taste for this Speaker (Genelec) Compares to the HEDD TYPE 20 MK II. Have you had the pleasure listening to these? Or are you able to Review These HEDD's?? At the moment, I'm opting in to buy the HEDD's. But would love to see a comparison between the Genelec Three Ways, and the HEDD Three Ways : ) Just in Case the Genelec's might be a better choice! Kind Regards!
I wouldn't expect the ATC's to perform close to this level in regards to accuracy and directivity. Also a lot less power and bass output (2x 6.5" vs 2x ~9" woofers). Would be interesting to see them tested nevertheless.
Is a UNI-Q driver really best at directivity? I've read other commentators who say if the tweeter and woofer are close together in small speakers then vertical directivity is fine? My Wharfedale 9.0s are like this and sound OK (they have other problems but they sound much the same if I sit down or stand up...)
Would 8351b with Sub be close enough to 8361a or would the latter still hold an edge in some ways? If so, how? Just asking since the latter are so big and heavy, so wondering if they are worth the extra cost, size, weight based on higher performance vs the former.
What program are you using at 15:54 for active Eqing? Also, could you re listen to these while using their glm software? Even if it is the smaller ones, I think you would be even more impressed. You get a set of these driving them with a topping d90se out of the aes input using genelec's glm software, this would literally be the end of the world...
If I get a sub for my KEF LSX, could it have as much bass, and even be better for "wall of sound"? (The distance between sub and speakers can be as large as the singer!)
What use is it being built like a tank? I'm not going to be shooting at it! Any speakers that might be not so good at stopping small weapons fire but maintain audio capability?
These Genelecs are probabely very good and precise sounding speakers. But the ASR forum is such a scam I can't take any review seriously. As a member of the forum you can't have your own opinion. When you read the messages in the "reviews" all the members react either positive or negative depending on the outcome of the review. I have experienced myself twice that it is prohibited to think the opposit. Your messages will simply be deleted! Its outrages.
That's the outcome of any moderated forum. Every moderated forum will inevitably just echo the beliefs of the moderators. Forums with moderation simply doesn't work if you have any interest in truth, honesty, or open discussion.
Everyone has been asking that question. I have only heard the Kii Threes at shows. There, I did not experience the deep bass that these Genelecs have. Hopefully I get my hands on one to properly test and compare.
I owned 8351a's and currently own Kii3's. It's a trade off between them. SPL = Genelec. But the phase corrected low end of the Kii's is incredible. Not going to give you near the same volume but they deliver better, more accurate sound in my room. The genelec tweeter is seldom discussed but you can find a few mentions of owners taking issue with how harsh it is. Those upper resonances, in particular the 2.5K resonance on the 8351 waterfall that AudioScienceReview did reveals the exact reason I moved to the Kii's. The Kii3 tweeter is extended and lovely sounding. I'm going to guess that when/if ASR does review the Kii's they are going to struggle with the cardiod/phase corrected bass while testing it as the Klippel seems to be a room averaging method, and the Kii's are doing the exact opposite with their correction. The ASR reviews make me want to give the 83x1 series another shot, then I remember how much I didn't like the tweeter. In pure listening terms - recordings I've been a part of, in rooms that I know very well, the genelics didn't sound anything like those rooms. And the difference in room tones between recorded spaces wasn't that great. The Kii's delivered those room details as I know those rooms to sound. Recordings made in Abbey Road vs Air Studios, sound as different as they should. ATC's (models with the mid dome) make those differences VERY noticeable. Kii's show those differences naturally. 83x1s - much less so and oddly makes them much more similar than they are in real life. But as these tests show - the gens really do sound like a single point source. To my ears they sound even better at close distances. Almost big giant accurate headphones! Just wish I liked the tweeter more. To be clear - I owned the 8351A's. Maybe genelec addressed the tweeter with the B's, which in terms of release dates might also apply to the 8341a (released after the 8351a but before the b rev) and now the 8361's reviewed here. Would love anyones thoughts on the new tweeter if you've had a chance to compare the A versions to the B version, or the new 8361 to the old 8351A.
You say your Revel's are better but at $20,000+. So what Audiophile Hifi speaker in the $10,000 + range would better these? It would be great if you could do a video comparing high end studio monitors with audiophile speakers for home use.
had a question do you know how much the 8361 actually weight I find sometimes the website says they weight a certain weight then they are off by 5-10lbs. I ask cuz I was wondering if the 8361 would be a pain if traveling with them
$$$ though! I don't really care about directivity - I want classical music/human voice to sound great at my listening position. Do any budget/medium priced speakers approach the genelec on axis (with correction, if necessary)?
These measure amazing and have your thumbs up but is the bass really that good? I have a very efficient 18” subwoofer that really shakes the house. Can you explain how such small enclosures like the Genelec’s have are able to outperform larger drivers? I also use Direc Live room correction on my main speakers and subwoofer. I guess I would have to listen to them to be convinced.
Well, probably not compared to 18 inch driver and a lot of amplification power. My reference here is stand-alone speakers. You can still augment these with your sub for lower than 35 Hz.
Amir, if they're a better than your current setup when are you going to sell your current speakers and amps? I wouldn't wait too long because when word gets out about these speakers most second hand speakers and amps will drop in value.
They are not better but different. My current setup projects a larger image which is enjoyable with some music. But yes, if I were to buy my system again, I would be hard pressed to justify it based on performance of these Genelecs.
Great review!!! This may be a pair of speakers I will upgrade to in the very distant future, haha. I wonder, for these DSP speakers, is there a slight delay as the signal goes from the DAC / audio interface, to the speakers and then audio is heard? I will need to know this as someone who plays midi instruments, mainly pianos. If it has some delay, this will not be helpful for me. I know I'll not be updating to this anytime soon, but I want to know this, in case I do update. Thank you!!!
@@AudioScienceReview I see. OK, thank you! I wouldn't want a pair of speakers with delays, especially if I was playing something on the midi keyboard with the speakers connected. Appreciate your reply!
@@joona7556 Any musician can adapt to a "fixed" delay, especially one that is so miniscule. So this discussion is a bit silly in my opinion. The Genelecs are made for musicians and producers, you can't find a better tool in that regard.
@@davidlai1996 You would just use a 2nd set or ideally always use headphones for that. Sometimes you have to choose between accuracy for mixing and usability for playing / writing / recording.
Imagine having 5 of these in your home theater when you are really pushing them = 5 x 700 watt amp for the bass drivers. Your breaker box will explode :D
I used to use a 10kW amplifier (Lab Gruppen PLM) at home running on 240VAC. Nothing exploded. Was really fun to hook up a Martin Audio WS218X and find out what infrasonic bass does indoors. : )
You are great mate :) thanks for review i am learning a lot of things with you. İ am using in my studio ATC Scm 7v3 in near field. İ like those because tonality its right and pure. Can you measure and test if its posible ? if i live in your country i can deliver to you but i am live in Turkey. İf any users can send you or maybe Atc will send you i will be greatfull for you and i can learn my speaker's talent or wekness :) thank you again and have a good work mate.
Interesting review, but you just had one? I think I’d need a pair to be able to hear a proper stereo recording through them before being able to recommend.
@@dihydrotestosterone Hi, thanks for the info, I watched that video and it’s interesting. I once had an eye injury and the eye was patched for around a week. Initially it was weird, but after a day my brain adapted and my vision became more 3D with one eye than two! A similar thing to one speaker rather than two maybe.
Something I don't understand, at the center you ahve the tweeter, and it's supposed to be concentric, but the mid that surrounds the tweeter... Does it not have a surround?! It's like everything around the tweeter looks like solid metal/plastic... Maybe the surround is hidden behind the front aluminum baffle?
@@rabarebra for others reading other than mr douche over here, simply not visible. "The first step is to minimize the cone displacement, in other words to limit the low frequency bandwidth of the driver." "The visible part of the coaxial driver is formed by the curved flexible skin with the dome tweeter assembly in its centre. The inner section joins the cone to the tweeter without any acoustical discontinuity, and the outer one does the same between the cone and the driver chassis. As there are no acoustically observable discontinuities between the tweeter and the cone, just a smooth surface, there is no diffraction either. The cone profile is very carefully optimized to form an integrated directivity control waveguide for the tweeter radiation. The driver outer edge is terminated to a normal Genelec DCW in order to control the dispersion of midrange radiation as well. "
@@literalghost929 The midrange sounds fantastic. I have the 8361A's along with three other pais of active speakers. The other also in the $8000 price range (pair) with soft dome. But these 8361 is just mindblowing. You can hear every detail in a singers voice right in front of you almost as if they are present.
Amir this review really makes me want to spend money. Not $10k mind you, but maybe $1k on some diy speakers to replace the ones I have now. My speakers now are excellent in response and directivity, but the way you describe the effortless dynamics really makes me want to shoot for something that can do that as well. I just have to keep reminding myself that I live in an apartment and I’ll never use that output. “But what if I do?” I keep asking myself. GAHH! No! The money can be spent can be spent on better things… …Can it though? Please help me I have an addiction.
I don’t think there are any DIY speaker kits for $1000 all-in that are out there that are super amazing. The Philharmonic BMR Kit is ~$1000 excluding the cabinet though, but it’s not a dynamic speaker. The Travelers Loudspeaker Kit seems interesting too, but no data to back it up. Now, if you mean fully from scratch, then there likely are some configurations you can do depending on how good you are at crossover design (or use a MiniDSP), especially if talking 3-way speakers. For dynamics, you would want 88dB sensitivity or higher, so using that as a parameter: The Peerless BC25TG15-04 at $30/pr is the best tweeter I know of as a whole for such a good price. Dennis Murphy used it in his Philharmonic AAM that Amir reviewed and Amir loved it. For a 2kHz crossover, the woofers I’d look at would be: • Vifa NE180W-04 • Satori MW16TX-4 • SB Acoustics SB17NRX2C35-4 • ScanSpeak 18M/4631T00 HiFiCompass has measurements of all, you can compare the frequency response, off-axis, distortion, etc.
@@homeboi808 no I’m fully capable of doing everything myself and I have a few designs that I’ve been working on. Thank you for the recommendations though.
@@noahnovotny2100 Cool, then yeah I’d look at those 4 woofers I listed (they vary in price a good deal). And again, there are some tweeters in the $200+/pair that are excellent, but that Peerless one is unmatched as a total package below $100/pair in my opinion and to my knowledge from the data I have seen, but it can’t handle a crossover lower than 2kHz. You could use the same BMR midrange Dennis Murphy uses and push the crossover up to like 3kHz (Dayton makes 1 good midrange, but it’s large so sadly can’t cross too high) and then instead of a 6-6.5” woofer you could go to a 7”-8” for deeper bass (again, one that is 88dB sensitive or higher for dynamics).
At 10K budget, consider this cannot render a Beethoven crescendo at 115db SPL or any other concert while my klipsch at this budget easily outperform with low distortion. I am not surprised you "liked" the bass as a speaker this size driver will add harmonics at high SPL (non linear distortion) and shake your house due to more energy in the wave form. A low distortion high efficiency klipsch legacy especially the corner klipschorn will have far less distortion, will shake the house less and annoy the neighbors less because the bass is far more accurate with less harmonics. directivity is very important and but non-linear distortions at various SPL at Frequencies are the most important, you keep measuring frequency response which is far less important.
You not realy compare Klipsch to Genelec…🤦Two pair of shoes of quality and the Genelec outperform every klipsch in terms of imaging, details, resolution and many more. When you want only SPL of 115dB buy an PA System…. or the Genelec 1238…
@@vtkz imaging is not quantifiable, its objective in your head, somewhat like a religion, I want LOW DISTORTION high SPL, a real concert with NO intermodulation distortion, resolution and instrument separation are directly correlated to low distortion, how much value you get per $ belongs to Klipsch any day, and not Audiophile bulshitary talk of unquantifiable items, what's next? magic cables again?
@@xprcloud what youre talking about ? Maybe Klipsch can play loud, but in the other more important parts like instrument seperation, depth, resolution, details they fall apart because most of them are crap with cheap parts. But buy whatever you want, but 115dB Beethoven is def. not my Way of Music Listening, when its yours stay with your klipschˋs (your talking about $, you know klipsch is overpriced crap… look at their crossover, they use the cheapest of cheapest parts in them). There is a difference between Loud & a lot of Bass and Loud, Clear and Quality Bass. And a Genelec gives you maybe a little bit less SPL but the Quality in every Freq Region is just Levels above any Klipsch. When you dont believe it test it A/B to yours
@@vtkz You never actually experienced the thrill of a real concert, 100db SPL is not loud when there is no distortion, and 115db spl (which is more than twice as loud than 100db ) ) starts to become loud, because then our ears distort , not so much the klipsch you never actually owned klipschorns or LasCalas, Your reply wasn't even science based, more like audio phools crap, throwing mud BC some cap isn't sacred teflon with nuclear weapons type wiring.
@@xprcloud I own 2 different Klipsch systems, including the Heritage, as well as the 8361 from Genelec. And to be honest, the Klipsch are a budget system in sound compared to the Genelec. Please stop your kiddo bs. Klipsch has so much interference issues due to phase misalignment, uneven directivity, as well as other issues with cabinet resonance, and so on... If you want to make a point, measure both systems and post the results.
Thanks for all the interesting context and data! Really informative body of work. I believe your results would be better substantiated if you illustrated comparisons of a given speaker under review to a “benchmark” of previous speakers you recommended as “yes” vs “no”. You have plenty of data points. You are a smart guy. You can figure out what needs to be simplified to provide a qualified “apples to apples” comparison. It should be clear to readers how the frequency response of a “good” speaker compares to the other “good” speakers you’ve measured (or whatever measurement you believe material). I would have thought an “objectivist” reviewer could illustrate the supporting evidence for a summary judgment vs disclosed benchmarks. Otherwise, the review’s conclusion is simply subjective - said another way, measurement data without context is not evidence - it’s just data. Also, why only measure esoteric/niche equipment? The review selection would be more relevant if it covered broader ground. At minimum, it would be more interesting overall. (Maybe a lot of people buy Dayton loudspeakers. But I’ve never seen a market share analysis to suggest that is the case). Your work is really interesting, and much appreciated
That is the point of the forum. You change a page, and see a different set of measurements for something else. It’s all laid out for anyone to compare the measurements in adjacent windows.
When it happens, I tend to learn different things from your reviews of truly excellent speakers.
1. Just learning how high the bar is set is useful.
2. Learning that it can be done, at some cost and engineering effort.
3. That powered speakers (as I suspected) don't have to be wicked stepsisters to passive ones.
4. That, despite 90% of us trying to make "a silk purse out of a sow's ear," there exist speakers that have far better performance than just the snob appeal we've come to find in so many "hifi" speakers that try to equate price with music quality. [I don't trust subjective-only reviews anymore, especially because experience shows these folks are heavily influenced by price.]
And a big
5. That if my budget were not a constraint, I have a choice between large, room domnating speakers, and less obtrusive stand-mount speakers, without remorse.
I feel privileged to hear of their existence. I might drive a few hundred miles to hear a pair of these, in person. It could be a costly trip to my retirement account.
You can now find 8331/ 8351A used pairs for surprisingly low prices ($2-3K/each)
I somehow convinced myself if this is going to be that one speaker ever need push my budget and get it done. 5k is a huge sum for me. Then I noticed it’s 5k a piece. Back to square one
I mean now there is only the long process of just making this kinda power and audio more affordable. A loooooong journey for sure hehe.
Have a look at the Neumann KH 310A.
It’s DAC/volume/room correction/amplifier so basically competing with Kii3 and 8C. I’d choose the Kii3 at this budget due to it’s amazingly stylish and functional remote.
Honestly tho, how does this square with " no replacement for displacement"
Yes ,. But for home use you don't need expensive studio monitors. ... Elac reference is $600 ...a true bargain
I have some small, older Genelcs (8020A) that I use with my PC, and they have been absolutely fantastic. If I had the budget and were in the market for a new setup, these would be at the top of my list.
Nirvana has been reached, and it can be reached for a low price of 10,000 dollars!
Love the review, Amir.
Keep up your amazing work!
Yeah it's a nearly perfect speaker compared to others. Their price may be high, but they're delivering.
10k sounds like a lot, but when you factor in that they're powered and all you really need is a source and a volume option, combined with that frequency response and build quality, it's not a bad deal at all really. They are not SO friendly, that's for sure!
My former SO loved my pair of UREI 813C's - the 8361's are gorgeous in comparison 😄
It sounds crazy to say this, but this is probably the best bang for buck speaker on the market - active OR passive. It's literally a perfect speaker in every way, and puts damn near anything under six figures to shame.
I’ve used Genelec monitors for over 40 years. The only reservation I’ve had about them was finally answered by their 8300 series, bringing full range point source to the party. Point source speakers have featured in every control room I’ve built for myself and Genelecs, as wonderful as they sounded, broke that hard rule of mine. When I saw these I knew they had to be special because Genelec doesn’t break new ground easily.
Thank you so much for your detailed analysis. Your results are about what I hoped for and in some ways exceeded my expectations. $10k is not out of line to studio professionals for a full range stereo reference system. Making the leap to integrate the woofer into the point source, and doing so well, makes this a solid buy for any studio.
As an 8030A owner, I am seriously looking to finally upgrade after 16+ happy years to the 'Ones'. Probably just the 8341 - so one size larger than what I have now, but obviously all the new 3-way goodness. I use them for making music at my desk so couldn't really fathom the larger models.
Bought a 5.1 set of speakers (Arendal 1723 + 1723 sub2S) close enough to the cost of 2 of these 8361’s last year. About 1.5-2 months later I bought Genelecs 8020D studio monitors for my computer and they blew me away.
Ever since I’ve always been wondering if I should have just bought the 2 x 8361’s instead of my 5.1 setup…
And you have just confirmed I probably should have… Mixed feelings now…
Awesome review Amir, awesome to see your enthusiasm and how this speaker has impressed you.
Have been hearing people raving lots about the Arendal. Thanks for the comment.
@@nicholastoo858 It all depends what you are looking for I think. I bought the Arendals as a home cinema setup with 50/50 use of movies/music. In my opinion the Arendals are not the most musical speaker, although they’re still quite good - don’t get me wrong.
Where the Arendal’s really shine is with home cinema, there they are absolutely stunning. For movie usage the Arendals are hard to beat I think - especially for the money. Can’t imagine wanting better speakers for movie usage. Their subs are also absolutely fantastic.
But for me, music sound quality is equally or even more important and I love the neutral representation and level of detail the 8020’s give me, and I assume that these 8361’s are way ahead of those.. Now I have a bit of a “what if” feeling. But we also need to put it in perspective, a 5.1/5.2 setup with Genelec 8361 will be approx. 4-5x as expensive as with Arendal. For movies I don’t believe these are going to be worth the extra cost, but for music it’s going to be a different story - for me at least..
Or do like I have done. 5.1 setup with Genelecs. Not 8361s yet but LCR is 8050s. Well subs are DIY so far, not yet Genelec subs due to budget limitations.
@@karoliinasalminen
5.1 with any Genelec model powerful enough to fill the room would be amazing. At the time when I bought the Arendals I didn’t know of Genelec.
Having said that, for movies the Arendals are spectacular. I don’t need anything more. It’s mainly for music listening where I would prefer the Genelecs and where they would add the most value to me.
If space will ever be a limiting factor, the big Genelecs are on top of my list. But most likely in a 2.0 setup.
@@nicholastoo858 I've been playing around a bit with the toe-in of my 1723 tower. Perhaps it's also that these speakers are now properly run-in and/or I've become adjusted to them. But I now also thoroughly enjoy these 1723 towers for music. As long as there's sufficient space, these 1723 speakers aren't going anywhere.
If however, space will ever become a limiting factor, the Genelecs are on top op my wish list.
Browsing their website awhile ago and this looked like a beast of a speaker. Needless to say the measurements don't disappoint. Now all you need to go with them is the 7382A subwoofer array. Retaining functional hearing after use is optional.
While the subwoofer will “help” the 3 way speakers don’t really need it. They present a super cohesive sound just on their own.
@@morespinach9832 "I dont listen to electronic and hip hope genres". There is no speaker on earth that does not befit from a sub, and there never will be.
@@enjoshi-godrez8775
Well I produce and mix bass heavy hip hop… just ordered these today (without a sub). I guess I’ll find out.
@@RodneyD let me know what u think of them? Im also in the fence and in hopes i do not need a sub
@@pourtierbeatz7804
The 8361a doesn’t need a sub. And they bang hard!! Best monitors period.
Thanks for an interesting and informative review! I've been using the 8361a speakers for a year now for mixing and mastering as well as pleasure listening. My room is 20 x 36 ft with 14 foot raftered ceilings and the Genelecs fill it with sound that is natural, dynamic, 3 dimensional, and they create a very focused sound stage image. The room correction software works very well, but my room didn't need much correction as it's quite well balanced to begin with. I never find them fatiguing no matter how many hours I work with them. Part of the reason, I believe, is that accurate imaging is less fatiguing to the brain and ears. Having used several other speakers in the past (PMC IB2s, Adam S2V, and KMR ATC SCM20A SL Pro, although in a smaller room) I will say with confidence that Genelec is the superior speaker in all regards.
How big is your Stereo Triangle? And how did you placed them close to the front wall? I'm just wondering if they also work in a smaller room as near fields?
@@Vocalisto Also curious as my room is only 12' foot by 10' foot with 8' foot ceiling. I understand x2 of these for me are probably overkill for room size but I just want to make sure my small room won't give these speakers problems in terms of audio.
@@tvm2209 +1
@@Vocalisto The speakers are 64 inches apart (from centre of each tweeter) and 64 inches to my listening position. I've since added a Genelec subwoofer. In a smaller room you would probably want to go with the 8351 or 8341 and one of their subs. Genelecs can be used as near-field monitors and they are great. The newest GLM software for room calibration is fantastic too.
@@tvm2209 You would be better off with one of the smaller Genelecs like the 8351 or even the next one down. Mine are 64 inches apart and 64 inches from my listening position. I've since added one of their subwoofers too. The newest version of the GLM room correction software is fantastic and will improve the sound in any room. Cheers!
As A Speaker Builder Of Too Many Years, Going back to Early Eighties, Due to Downsizing of Accommodation ( Wife Passed, Children Flown ) I Have Genelec Setup , 8030B x 2 and Matching Subwoofer.Best 700Euro Spent Ever. This is A Manufacturer Devoid Of Snake Oil
Happy to see you finally got hold of Genelec co-ax 3-ways.
Good to see how it performs in figures. I'm very happy with my 8341A and 8351B which has very similar sound signature due to the design. Only thing that differs is the low frequency extension which frankly is not that big a difference. The 8341A plays big even in the smaller size (as it's designed for critical near field listening in small environment.)
One note: With the DSP and GLM software you can easily assign a sound signature adding bass (also good to add some bass after the room correction which is only attenuating frequencies to avoid phase issues as much as possible). So all processing is made inside the speaker.
I converted by Studio Set-up (BlueSky Sky Sat + sub 2.1 speakers) to home use and they are absolutely outstanding - aside from the multiple wires running around it matches "audiophile" grade speakers costing multiple times more. I can imagine this takes it even futher
Bought 2 of em for my new HiFi setup, a big reason for my decision was this video/evaluation. Excited to get them up and running!
hi, how do you like them?
@@Ol4me Love em. Incredible imaging, precision, dynamics and neutrality. Not harsh in any way and the bass is rocking the room.
Avbryt
Svara
I've got the 8341's and they're awesome so I cannot imagine how good these are! End-Game stuff.... :)
the differences are not as mindblowing as you think. 8331,8341,8351,8361 are playing on the same high Level in terms of performance. I heard all Models side by side and for me the differences (in a treated room) are hearable yes, but a W371 or a Sub from Genelec would be a better investment. And the 8361 are big, very big. At the end you cant go wrong with any genelec
@@vtkz I'm looking at 8331 or 8341 as a set of alt speakers at the studio. My concern is that 8331 may not go loud enough as it has much smaller amps. But apparently the noise floor is much lower than the 8341. 8341 (no sub) seems like it may be the sweet spot financially for our smallish 15x12 (11h) control room. Have tried many speakers but the room is just tough to deal with.
Thanks for the review! Just ordered my pair of 8361!
how do you like them?
I think the waterfall plot is a very useful tool. You can put in a filter to flatten out a frequency response but a waterfall plot will give the game away.
Studio monitors always offer better bang for buck. Amp-matching is such a nonsense mission for most people. Buying an active speaker will nearly always be the performance per dollar choice
This System seems to be absolutely amazing. And so many of so called „High End“ speakers can take their luggage. 🙂
Excellent review of an amazingly good measuring speaker Amir. You explained the measurements very clearly. Already 16 pages on your website in a lttle over one day of posting it. You already bought the Dune soundtrack by Zimmer. I hope you enjoyed my fellow Québécois Denis Villeneuve's adaptation of that great sci-fi novel.
Thanks. And yes I did. Can't wait for part 2.
@@AudioScienceReview Neither can I.
oh it was a novel first. i was so surprised to see an old videogame get made into a movie
It’s an interesting soundtrack. For some reason, I imagined a new Dune film to sound a bit closer to William Walton’s first symphony in tone and theme, a bit like Previn’s energetic recording of it in 1966, but Zimmer’s soundtrack was sufficiently memorable.
Amir, you just know how to make me drool. It was your review that helped me decide between the 8050B and the Footprint01 - went with the Gennies, saved quite a lot and am really happy. Can't thank you enough!
This set is now officially on my dream speaker list along with the MicroMain27. I'd love it if you had a chance to measure the MM27 as well, since it's impossible to find anything detailed about online and no dealers are carrying it around me, but EDM guys (like myself) seem to like it a lot.
Dying to hear your review of the Elac Unifi Reference bookshelf speakers before Black Friday. Trying to choose between them and the Debut Reference which you gave a positive review of. Thank you for your excellent assessments!
Thank you for the review, I made up my mind, just have to wait for stock shortage for the white ones to come in :D
I think the way they implemented the woofer vents was amazing
Indeed. I know the science of it works but despite that, the concept of a hidden driver keeps making me think it should not!
That's what you get when the company work a proper industrial/product designer (Harri Koskinen). Sound technique and product design married as it should.
Thanks for another fantastic review Amir. There is no better reviewer of hi-end audio - anywhere.
Does any viewer have a clue as to what this actually sounds like?
Yes, glad to see you too are enjoying the Dune OST. It's so good 😍
If I ever get an amazing job when I'm older, these will probably be the speakers I will buy for my home theatre. For now I'll stick to my DIY active transmission lines. Very budget, but probably the best you can get for the budget, so I'm happy for now.
That’s the key. Find what your happy with and stick with. The Law of diminishing returns can’t be ignored. You can’t spend many thousands and still be not happy.
@@thegroove2000 I mean, I probably would be able to tell the difference, so would buy if I had enough excess to spend in the future. But for now I'm just happy to have an ideal in-room response from 20hz to 20khz below Xmax with tweeter at 75db (what I'm able to get with the £300 DIY transmission line). Do I want it to have lower distribution, yes, but I'm happy with it for now, and probably for quite a few decades too!
@@thegroove2000 also, thank you for the reminder. These high end products can put a slight damper on the feelings of our current systems 👍
@@lio1234234 Exactly. Which speakers are they and are the plans on the inter web?.
@@thegroove2000 my reply keeps disappearing mate. Essentially it's my design and it's not uploaded yet
Thanks for this review.
I hope you get a chance to review the Kali Audio IN-5 or IN-8 V2.
Let me think about it as I am already stuck with the V1 I purchased. :)
Erin's Audio Corner reviewed the IN-8 (with klippel): ruclips.net/video/DNpkizYXbVM/видео.html and LP-6v2
I do not usually care too much about measurements in reviews, but this one was very interesting to listen to, as I learnt why and how the speaker is engineered the way it is.
Nothing here is random, everything exists solely for an engineering outcome, and nothing is about some vague “we built a speaker that renders the soul and musicality of an Italian 18th century violin played by a master…. And you can see that in the 5000 dollar optional wood finish and contours shaped like a Tuscany maiden, and…” etc. BS.
And no, it still does not look ugly or weird at all. Even the name is OK since it is part of a series of tools. Were it a “HiFi” product it would be named after some legendary antediluvian cyclop with a romantic suffix like “opus” or “musica” or “heritage”.
A lot of hi-end audio is good, but far from excellent plus the never ending upgrade,because you feel something is lacking. Amir, you changed my world and maybe some other audio enthusiasts.
Truth to be told, I have changed my own mind. :) It wasn't until I started testing speakers that I realized how good powered studio monitors are.
Nice review. Here in Finland it seems to me that lots of hifiguys have turned to these genelecs. Now they are tweaking dsp instead of interconnects, but they are still tweaking:) Nice sounding speakers but not so nice looking.
Good to hear. Are they priced lower in their home country?
@@AudioScienceReview They are priced similarly, approx. 5000 €/ pc. Not sure if these big ones are that common here, but genelecs (smaller models) in general, are quite popular. People use them with tv in living rooms (tv sound and music). If you have all white living rooms (scandinavian style), wifes dont mind having small white "eggs" on tv stand.
@@AudioScienceReview Except LTE connections, pretty much everything costs more in Finland. Our VAT alone is 24%
Don’t forget to treat the room before considering splashing out.
Dang, yu just like mom.
"Wash your hands before yu eat"😀
She was right.
Hey Amir!! Thank you for the video. So great. Please do a video about "Pro-Audio Power supply cables" because my father just bought 3 cables for 150 euros each, they are 1 meter long and for my father they improve the audio so much. They are the Analysis-Plus Pro Power Oval MK2. He has XLR cables from that company too. Please I really want to make him understand that its all Placebo. He use all his equipment for doing live karaoke (and by the way he thinks that the jack output from a Macbook air 2021 will be way better than the DAC that i gifted him, the Soncoz La-Qxd1, LOL). Hoping you will read this!!!
Genalec is a hell of a good brand. Not strange they use them a lot in pro. audio work.
Just when I was getting ready to buy the 8351B after it’s recent stellar review on ARS😳
Wow a speaker without high end boost. And top of that it's a coaxial. Would love to hear this one day
Very good channel. I really enjoy every test. Genelec has different chassis in the smaller speakers and the transition frequency to the midrange is higher. This is a dynamic problem for the bass. Here the transition from bass to midrange is already from 300 Hz and I suspect if the mid-high range could be even lower, e.g. 200 Hz, an increase (unbelievable) could be achieved again. Obviously, Genelec has also significantly strengthened the bass chassis. I would be interested in how the speakers sound at a very low volume. (RMS of the bass chassis could, because they can obviously make a large stroke and have to withstand the large amplifier power, have a higher mechanical resistance, which could lead to dynamic fading in the very quiet area) If you perform practically consistently in this area then this is probably a limit in terms of audio technology which was achieved. Admirable. Thanks for this channel.
Great speakers, i wish the dispersion was wider but near perfect otherwise. Might be the LCR in my future listening space/HT or maybe the smaller 8351…
Just because one cannot afford a piece of gear, does not mean they cannot appreciate it. You are not one to gush over gear that it doesn’t warrant it. Much like the Dan Clark Stealth headphones, I will have to wait to win the lottery and be happy in what I have knowing that I will miss out. Praise earned by you is high praise. Wished it was my pair you had. Oh well, maybe someday. Stay safe mates!😊👍🏻😷
Very, very impressive. If I ever have 10.000 for music I know where to go.
If you're missing the scale maybe have a go at setting up 11 of these in an Auro-3D configuration, and use auromatic on your music 😂. I'm laughing at how expensive it would be, but I've found auromatic portrays spaciousness extremely ideally, so might be a bit of fun if you're able to Amir! Thanks for the amazing review as always!
Is it still expensive if you look at the power, amps and dsp tech that it comes with?
Being Finnish Genelec's are the norm. You can see then in elementary school AV rooms.. Kind of ridiculous how high standards that sets, when i was active in the field i always worked with Genelecs, they were available in every facility and gear rental.
Ive noticed that all the AV rooms at my local hospital in Norway has white G fours mounted in the ceeling.
@@djdeepkanga1245 And?
these are awesome! I have the smaller brother, the 8351B
And I have it's even smaller albino brother the 8341AWM. 👌
@@mb-electricalservices are you running subs with yours?
@@konival9753 I have 8341AW, with 7360 sub. I think they recommend 7370 with 8341, but I will maybe upgrade it later 😅
Hello Amir, I know this isn’t the model on this video, but I would like you to do one on the Genelec 8050B. This powered speaker utilizes class A/B amplifiers to power the drivers. I am interested in this one as I feel class A/B amplifiers to produce a cleaner, more organic sound. If you did a video, it would be fair and true. There may be others who would like to see it as well. It isn’t a cheap speaker, around $2,300 per speaker. It is, however, less expensive than the one in this video. I have plans to use this in my home studio so I have an interest in it because of that. Your opinion is based on real world facts and data. That makes it more valid than other reviewers on this platform. What do you say? If someone has them that are not being used or can loan them to you, that would be helpful. I appreciate your evaluations as they are honest and truthful, even if it isn’t flattering. The truth isn’t always pretty! This will help me make a sound decision based on facts and truth. Stay safe my mates!😊👍🏻😷 I found your review on these so thank you anyway!😁
He already has, upload date Feb 21 2021
Staggering performance measurements, if I weren't such a sucker for the fun of separates I do indeed believe these would be an endgame consideration for me. $10k is also honestly a bargain for something like this, one could very easily spend a WHOLE lot more chasing the system synergy and performance these offer as standard; and still possibly fall short in the end.
If technical perfection is what you seek, then good production-oriented equipment is what you want. Such products are designed primarily as tools, and are thus largely freed from the burden of trying to keep up with fickle sonic and aesthetic trends that might get in the way.
Would you honestly put these speakers up against some of the best in the business? I'm also considering the Dutch & Dutch 8C. I have a rather large room and wonder if pairing up the 8361A with one of their big subs would fit the bill. I like to listen very critically.
If anyone really knows, i have a sincere question. Will these work for LCR in home theater? At most, I would sit 3m away. Because of the Inverse Square Law, to achieve 105dbpk at the MLP, you’d be shooting 114dbpk at 1m.
Most of a movie at reference usually hovers between 79-96db at the MLP which would be 88-104db at 1m. That seems like the limiter would be engaged often if listening to a movie at reference volume, right? Or does the limiter only engage when performing a measurement sweep due to the duration of the tone at a constant volume and the limiter wouldn’t constantly engage on more dynamic, real-world music and movie material?
Great review! So as the speaker!! But as you said I like that wall of sound from my JBL 4367
Finally a new video... thought "they" got to you
Hehe. :) Been having a hard time finding the time to do more. Fell behind so much in reviews during summer with gardening and such that no time was left to do videos.
I hear these were used as anti tank obstacles during the Talvisota.
Wow, great review! IMHO desktop computers and bookshelf/floorstanding speakers should have handles built in! Much as I dislike Apple they did get that right years ago.
Well I guess you could try using the front baffle opening as a handle ;p
@@RennieAsh The problem is that as you grab it there, you start to feel the woofers in there. So you have to be quite careful.
There are actually handles (carrying straps) you can fit on to the back of the Genelecs : )
thank you
Genelec itself claims that all their speakers have the same sound image and sound quality. What separates the smallest and cheapest from the largest and most expensive is simply bass response and power
I agree that matching woofer from a bookshelf with a subwoofer is a never ending push and pull, each time I put my nose into that problem i come up with a little different solution than the last. The way I achieve best results is by playing pink noise from each speaker then understand where the ideal domain of each is ending. Then use DSP to cup a little shorter than that, but with a (not the sharpest) slope. I create a little gap (usually where a room mode is) so that they play distinctly. My room modes are about 125hz and 60hz, so I let play my bookshelf down to 75hz and my subwoofer receive only what is below 50hz. Adjusting the slopes of the filter so that room modes don't shop up. So maybe I am missing tiny parts of the music, but it's better to have less than too much. This method (to me) allow most tunes I play to sound wonderful, even in this inappropriate untreated room.
I trust your measurements, but the designer, what did he eat during the last dinner?
Great Review!! Thank you for that! I am Curious to how your taste for this Speaker (Genelec) Compares to the HEDD TYPE 20 MK II. Have you had the pleasure listening to these? Or are you able to Review These HEDD's?? At the moment, I'm opting in to buy the HEDD's. But would love to see a comparison between the Genelec Three Ways, and the HEDD Three Ways : ) Just in Case the Genelec's might be a better choice! Kind Regards!
Amir has so many notifications lmao
I hope you'll get a chance to review a pair of ATC's. The SCM45A is (kind of) in the same price range.
I wouldn't expect the ATC's to perform close to this level in regards to accuracy and directivity. Also a lot less power and bass output (2x 6.5" vs 2x ~9" woofers). Would be interesting to see them tested nevertheless.
Love to test them. I hears some once at an audio show and the sound was good.
Is a UNI-Q driver really best at directivity? I've read other commentators who say if the tweeter and woofer are close together in small speakers then vertical directivity is fine? My Wharfedale 9.0s are like this and sound OK (they have other problems but they sound much the same if I sit down or stand up...)
Would 8351b with Sub be close enough to 8361a or would the latter still hold an edge in some ways? If so, how? Just asking since the latter are so big and heavy, so wondering if they are worth the extra cost, size, weight based on higher performance vs the former.
Please make a review of Pearl Acoustics Sibelius speaker, it is so far from Genelec that it would make a interesting comparison.
Sure, I will keep an eye out for them.
@@AudioScienceReview Exactly what I was thinking - that would make for a very interesting comparison.
Regarding Coaxial tech.....Will be nice to have a detailed review of the famous coaxial Cabasse the Pearl or the next Pearl Pelegrina.....
What program are you using at 15:54 for active Eqing? Also, could you re listen to these while using their glm software? Even if it is the smaller ones, I think you would be even more impressed. You get a set of these driving them with a topping d90se out of the aes input using genelec's glm software, this would literally be the end of the world...
Amir reminds me of sammo hung from martial law
Always had my eyes on genelecs.
Yeah but how does this stand up to the renowned GR Research Little Giant Killer 2.0?
😉
Somebody needs to make aftermarket hardwood baffles for these speakers…send a pair to me and I’ll do it! 😉
Is the tweeter connected inverted based on impulse response? Just curious…..
Amir I wish if you would test the LXmini it’s the worlds most unique diy stereo speaker from renowned Linkwitz.
If I get a sub for my KEF LSX, could it have as much bass, and even be better for "wall of sound"? (The distance between sub and speakers can be as large as the singer!)
What use is it being built like a tank? I'm not going to be shooting at it! Any speakers that might be not so good at stopping small weapons fire but maintain audio capability?
These Genelecs are probabely very good and precise sounding speakers. But the ASR forum is such a scam I can't take any review seriously. As a member of the forum you can't have your own opinion. When you read the messages in the "reviews" all the members react either positive or negative depending on the outcome of the review. I have experienced myself twice that it is prohibited to think the opposit. Your messages will simply be deleted! Its outrages.
That's the outcome of any moderated forum. Every moderated forum will inevitably just echo the beliefs of the moderators.
Forums with moderation simply doesn't work if you have any interest in truth, honesty, or open discussion.
Fantastic review as always, im curious how theese guys compare to the Kii Three's. I hope someone reads this and can lend you a pair of Kiis
Everyone has been asking that question. I have only heard the Kii Threes at shows. There, I did not experience the deep bass that these Genelecs have. Hopefully I get my hands on one to properly test and compare.
@@AudioScienceReview Yeah, would be a really interresting comparison. I sure hope you get the chance to try/measure/review them one day :)
I owned 8351a's and currently own Kii3's. It's a trade off between them. SPL = Genelec. But the phase corrected low end of the Kii's is incredible. Not going to give you near the same volume but they deliver better, more accurate sound in my room. The genelec tweeter is seldom discussed but you can find a few mentions of owners taking issue with how harsh it is. Those upper resonances, in particular the 2.5K resonance on the 8351 waterfall that AudioScienceReview did reveals the exact reason I moved to the Kii's. The Kii3 tweeter is extended and lovely sounding. I'm going to guess that when/if ASR does review the Kii's they are going to struggle with the cardiod/phase corrected bass while testing it as the Klippel seems to be a room averaging method, and the Kii's are doing the exact opposite with their correction. The ASR reviews make me want to give the 83x1 series another shot, then I remember how much I didn't like the tweeter. In pure listening terms - recordings I've been a part of, in rooms that I know very well, the genelics didn't sound anything like those rooms. And the difference in room tones between recorded spaces wasn't that great. The Kii's delivered those room details as I know those rooms to sound. Recordings made in Abbey Road vs Air Studios, sound as different as they should. ATC's (models with the mid dome) make those differences VERY noticeable. Kii's show those differences naturally. 83x1s - much less so and oddly makes them much more similar than they are in real life. But as these tests show - the gens really do sound like a single point source. To my ears they sound even better at close distances. Almost big giant accurate headphones! Just wish I liked the tweeter more. To be clear - I owned the 8351A's. Maybe genelec addressed the tweeter with the B's, which in terms of release dates might also apply to the 8341a (released after the 8351a but before the b rev) and now the 8361's reviewed here. Would love anyones thoughts on the new tweeter if you've had a chance to compare the A versions to the B version, or the new 8361 to the old 8351A.
@@edisonhamilton Any experience with the D&D 8c? Thanks
Are Genelec's easy to listen to for longer times? No ear fatigue? Is it "fun" to listen to those speakers?
probably not if you dont like an extremely flat frequency response, which is the goal of studio monitors. but you could aslo EQ them to your liking
Would you recommend this or the Stealth headphone with a subpac?
You say your Revel's are better but at $20,000+. So what Audiophile Hifi speaker in the $10,000 + range would better these? It would be great if you could do a video comparing high end studio monitors with audiophile speakers for home use.
had a question do you know how much the 8361 actually weight I find sometimes the website says they weight a certain weight then they are off by 5-10lbs. I ask cuz I was wondering if the 8361 would be a pain if traveling with them
They weight too much to travel with.
$$$ though! I don't really care about directivity - I want classical music/human voice to sound great at my listening position. Do any budget/medium priced speakers approach the genelec on axis (with correction, if necessary)?
These measure amazing and have your thumbs up but is the bass really that good? I have a very efficient 18” subwoofer that really shakes the house. Can you explain how such small enclosures like the Genelec’s have are able to outperform larger drivers? I also use Direc Live room correction on my main speakers and subwoofer. I guess I would have to listen to them to be convinced.
Well, probably not compared to 18 inch driver and a lot of amplification power. My reference here is stand-alone speakers. You can still augment these with your sub for lower than 35 Hz.
there are two 9,5" in these 8361's that works in symmetry. the bass is smooth down to 30Hz
I didn’t understand how the coaxial is mounted is it enclosed or like a open Baffel
Enclosed in it's own sealed box
Heavy duty hearing protection at 86db???
Amazing price to go with it...(amazingly high, that is).
Amir, if they're a better than your current setup when are you going to sell your current speakers and amps? I wouldn't wait too long because when word gets out about these speakers most second hand speakers and amps will drop in value.
They are not better but different. My current setup projects a larger image which is enjoyable with some music. But yes, if I were to buy my system again, I would be hard pressed to justify it based on performance of these Genelecs.
Great review!!! This may be a pair of speakers I will upgrade to in the very distant future, haha.
I wonder, for these DSP speakers, is there a slight delay as the signal goes from the DAC / audio interface, to the speakers and then audio is heard? I will need to know this as someone who plays midi instruments, mainly pianos. If it has some delay, this will not be helpful for me. I know I'll not be updating to this anytime soon, but I want to know this, in case I do update. Thank you!!!
Yes, there is usual a latency and Genelec specifies it.
@@AudioScienceReview I see. OK, thank you! I wouldn't want a pair of speakers with delays, especially if I was playing something on the midi keyboard with the speakers connected. Appreciate your reply!
@@davidlai1996 Every monitor/dac has some amount of latency, this monitor has latency of 4.2 ms. You really cannot go lower than this...
@@joona7556 Any musician can adapt to a "fixed" delay, especially one that is so miniscule. So this discussion is a bit silly in my opinion. The Genelecs are made for musicians and producers, you can't find a better tool in that regard.
@@davidlai1996 You would just use a 2nd set or ideally always use headphones for that. Sometimes you have to choose between accuracy for mixing and usability for playing / writing / recording.
Two people to lift 70 lbs? Get to the gym Amir! Otherwise, another great review :)
Can this be used instead of towers?
Imagine having 5 of these in your home theater when you are really pushing them = 5 x 700 watt amp for the bass drivers. Your breaker box will explode :D
Actually, I think the Class D amps keep the breaker box from exploding.
I used to use a 10kW amplifier (Lab Gruppen PLM) at home running on 240VAC. Nothing exploded.
Was really fun to hook up a Martin Audio WS218X and find out what infrasonic bass does indoors. : )
So it doesn't need an external amplifier??
No it doesn't. It has three built-in amplifiers in each speaker.
You are great mate :) thanks for review i am learning a lot of things with you.
İ am using in my studio ATC Scm 7v3 in near field. İ like those because tonality its right and pure. Can you measure and test if its posible ? if i live in your country i can deliver to you but i am live in Turkey. İf any users can send you or maybe Atc will send you i will be greatfull for you and i can learn my speaker's talent or wekness :) thank you again and have a good work mate.
Which input was used for testing?
Analog input.
Interesting review, but you just had one? I think I’d need a pair to be able to hear a proper stereo recording through them before being able to recommend.
Go and check Amir's video library.... there's one explaining why he only test in mono... it's a long video but you'll be convinced I promise.... 😝
@@dihydrotestosterone Hi, thanks for the info, I watched that video and it’s interesting. I once had an eye injury and the eye was patched for around a week. Initially it was weird, but after a day my brain adapted and my vision became more 3D with one eye than two! A similar thing to one speaker rather than two maybe.
$10,000 a pair amazing indeed
Something I don't understand, at the center you ahve the tweeter, and it's supposed to be concentric, but the mid that surrounds the tweeter... Does it not have a surround?! It's like everything around the tweeter looks like solid metal/plastic... Maybe the surround is hidden behind the front aluminum baffle?
jesus 🙈
@@rabarebra for others reading other than mr douche over here, simply not visible. "The first step is to minimize the cone displacement, in other words to limit the low frequency bandwidth of the driver."
"The visible part of the coaxial driver is formed by the curved flexible skin with the dome tweeter assembly in its centre. The inner section joins the cone to the tweeter without any acoustical discontinuity, and the outer one does the same between the cone and the driver chassis. As there are no acoustically observable discontinuities between the tweeter and the cone, just a smooth surface, there is no diffraction either. The cone profile is very carefully optimized to form an integrated directivity control waveguide for the tweeter radiation. The driver outer edge is terminated to a normal Genelec DCW in order to control the dispersion of midrange radiation as well. "
@@literalghost929 Please, you have no clue.
@@rabarebra alright Barbara
@@literalghost929 The midrange sounds fantastic. I have the 8361A's along with three other pais of active speakers. The other also in the $8000 price range (pair) with soft dome. But these 8361 is just mindblowing. You can hear every detail in a singers voice right in front of you almost as if they are present.
Amir this review really makes me want to spend money. Not $10k mind you, but maybe $1k on some diy speakers to replace the ones I have now. My speakers now are excellent in response and directivity, but the way you describe the effortless dynamics really makes me want to shoot for something that can do that as well. I just have to keep reminding myself that I live in an apartment and I’ll never use that output.
“But what if I do?” I keep asking myself.
GAHH! No! The money can be spent can be spent on better things…
…Can it though?
Please help me I have an addiction.
I don’t think there are any DIY speaker kits for $1000 all-in that are out there that are super amazing. The Philharmonic BMR Kit is ~$1000 excluding the cabinet though, but it’s not a dynamic speaker. The Travelers Loudspeaker Kit seems interesting too, but no data to back it up.
Now, if you mean fully from scratch, then there likely are some configurations you can do depending on how good you are at crossover design (or use a MiniDSP), especially if talking 3-way speakers.
For dynamics, you would want 88dB sensitivity or higher, so using that as a parameter:
The Peerless BC25TG15-04 at $30/pr is the best tweeter I know of as a whole for such a good price. Dennis Murphy used it in his Philharmonic AAM that Amir reviewed and Amir loved it.
For a 2kHz crossover, the woofers I’d look at would be:
• Vifa NE180W-04
• Satori MW16TX-4
• SB Acoustics SB17NRX2C35-4
• ScanSpeak 18M/4631T00
HiFiCompass has measurements of all, you can compare the frequency response, off-axis, distortion, etc.
@@homeboi808 no I’m fully capable of doing everything myself and I have a few designs that I’ve been working on. Thank you for the recommendations though.
@@noahnovotny2100 Cool, then yeah I’d look at those 4 woofers I listed (they vary in price a good deal).
And again, there are some tweeters in the $200+/pair that are excellent, but that Peerless one is unmatched as a total package below $100/pair in my opinion and to my knowledge from the data I have seen, but it can’t handle a crossover lower than 2kHz.
You could use the same BMR midrange Dennis Murphy uses and push the crossover up to like 3kHz (Dayton makes 1 good midrange, but it’s large so sadly can’t cross too high) and then instead of a 6-6.5” woofer you could go to a 7”-8” for deeper bass (again, one that is 88dB sensitive or higher for dynamics).
@@homeboi808 Thank you but I'm quite aware of what I would need for my applications.
I view the Kali in series as budget Genlec
damn thats 10k for a set
At 10K budget, consider this cannot render a Beethoven crescendo at 115db SPL or any other concert while my klipsch at this budget easily outperform with low distortion.
I am not surprised you "liked" the bass as a speaker this size driver will add harmonics at high SPL (non linear distortion) and shake your house due to more energy in the wave form. A low distortion high efficiency klipsch legacy especially the corner klipschorn will have far less distortion, will shake the house less and annoy the neighbors less because the bass is far more accurate with less harmonics.
directivity is very important and but non-linear distortions at various SPL at Frequencies are the most important, you keep measuring frequency response which is far less important.
You not realy compare Klipsch to Genelec…🤦Two pair of shoes of quality and the Genelec outperform every klipsch in terms of imaging, details, resolution and many more. When you want only SPL of 115dB buy an PA System…. or the Genelec 1238…
@@vtkz imaging is not quantifiable, its objective in your head, somewhat like a religion, I want LOW DISTORTION high SPL, a real concert with NO intermodulation distortion, resolution and instrument separation are directly correlated to low distortion, how much value you get per $ belongs to Klipsch any day, and not Audiophile bulshitary talk of unquantifiable items, what's next? magic cables again?
@@xprcloud what youre talking about ? Maybe Klipsch can play loud, but in the other more important parts like instrument seperation, depth, resolution, details they fall apart because most of them are crap with cheap parts. But buy whatever you want, but 115dB Beethoven is def. not my Way of Music Listening, when its yours stay with your klipschˋs (your talking about $, you know klipsch is overpriced crap… look at their crossover, they use the cheapest of cheapest parts in them). There is a difference between Loud & a lot of Bass and Loud, Clear and Quality Bass. And a Genelec gives you maybe a little bit less SPL but the Quality in every Freq Region is just Levels above any Klipsch. When you dont believe it test it A/B to yours
@@vtkz You never actually experienced the thrill of a real concert, 100db SPL is not loud when there is no distortion, and
115db spl (which is more than twice as loud than 100db ) ) starts to become loud,
because then our ears distort , not so much the klipsch
you never actually owned klipschorns or LasCalas,
Your reply wasn't even science based, more like audio phools crap, throwing mud BC some cap isn't sacred teflon with nuclear weapons type wiring.
@@xprcloud I own 2 different Klipsch systems, including the Heritage, as well as the 8361 from Genelec. And to be honest, the Klipsch are a budget system in sound compared to the Genelec. Please stop your kiddo bs. Klipsch has so much interference issues due to phase misalignment, uneven directivity, as well as other issues with cabinet resonance, and so on...
If you want to make a point, measure both systems and post the results.
It better be nothing less than great for over 8 grand a pair.
Thanks for all the interesting context and data! Really informative body of work. I believe your results would be better substantiated if you illustrated comparisons of a given speaker under review to a “benchmark” of previous speakers you recommended as “yes” vs “no”. You have plenty of data points. You are a smart guy. You can figure out what needs to be simplified to provide a qualified “apples to apples” comparison. It should be clear to readers how the frequency response of a “good” speaker compares to the other “good” speakers you’ve measured (or whatever measurement you believe material). I would have thought an “objectivist” reviewer could illustrate the supporting evidence for a summary judgment vs disclosed benchmarks. Otherwise, the review’s conclusion is simply subjective - said another way, measurement data without context is not evidence - it’s just data. Also, why only measure esoteric/niche equipment? The review selection would be more relevant if it covered broader ground. At minimum, it would be more interesting overall. (Maybe a lot of people buy Dayton loudspeakers. But I’ve never seen a market share analysis to suggest that is the case). Your work is really interesting, and much appreciated
That is the point of the forum. You change a page, and see a different set of measurements for something else. It’s all laid out for anyone to compare the measurements in adjacent windows.
looks like I need to save up
Are these waterproof? I'd like to put some around my pool.
I would build a small roof around any speakers that is supposed to be outside, especially at this price. 💰💰💰
Assuming you are serious :), no they are not. They are fully open to the elements through the port in the back. And front driver.
@@AudioScienceReview seriously, it's hard to find good high fidelity weatherproof speakers.