5:50 Paul’s transition into 9 is because he’s remembering all of the vicious accusations the unbelieving Jews would always hurl at him right after he got done delivering the message he gave in Romans 8, that the Gentiles have also been foreknown, called, blessed, glorified, along with the Jews so that it can now be seen that ALL people are chosen by God. No one is NOT chosen.
I don't disagree with you some of the shift to the Jews may have been to the fact that he realizes that the Jews are not going to like that Paul was including the gentiles in the promises of romans 8, but I think it is more than just expecting an argument from the Jews like in other areas of the Romans (like chapter 2, 3, 4, 6 (not that those are all Gentile and Jew problems)) and other areas in the bible, because this seems to be far more than just an argument of why the gentiles should be included and is a very passionate plea of his heart, so that is why I think, as he ponders what is said in romans 8 he feels the weight of what his kinsmen are missing out on. I agree both Gentiles and Jews are chosen by God, but it almost seems that you make a jump in your argument from gentiles and Jews “are all chosen people of God” to “no one is not chosen” meaning every individual. If that is the case, that is a big jump. Especially since you Group the chosen with those who are foreknown, called, Justified, and glorified. Which would be indicating that every individual is going to be justified and glorified teaching universalism. If you are trying to say that romans 8:28-29 is specifically talking about the Jews or the gentiles as a group, there's no reason from the context to believe that would be the case as above and below are very specifically talking about those who are in Christ and have the spirit and putting to death the deeds of the body. I am going to assume that is not what you are meaning but that you mean that God chooses every individual for the possibility of salvation, but then you would need to detach every individual from the foreknown, called, justified, and glorified. Included a few verses below that show that not all are granted, Drawn, That only his sheep believe and come, And that the gospel is veiled to those who are lost, And though many may be called only a few are chosen. John 6:42-44 (ESV): 42 They said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, ‘I have come down from heaven’?” 43 Jesus answered them, “Do not grumble among yourselves. 44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. John 6:65 (ESV): 65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.” John 10:24-30 (ESV): “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.” 25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.” 2 Cor 4 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5 For what we proclaim is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, with ourselves as your servants[c] for Jesus' sake. 6 For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.”
@@jasonsexton8682 Hi Jason. It is a big jump, and I am absolutely claiming it is the teaching of scripture. As the name of my channel suggests, this is my particular area of study. I’ve written a small book on this already and am working on a much larger one. Pauls teaching, in several instances, especially including Romans 9-11 and Ephesians 1-3, is a correction of Jewish theological errors. To understand Paul’s correction it is imperative to understand the precipitant error. The Jews believed (as they still believe) that their nation was chosen to be God’s people, and that all other people were not chosen and are not God’s people. It’s in error in at least a couple important ways, but that is and has always been their core belief. Thy believe all non-Jews are just…sub-human. It’s this ridiculously short-sighted error that Jesus corrected and Paul continued correcting. Their message is that yes, God chose the nation of Israel first, but he didn’t not-choose everyone else. He just chose them later, and in a different way, through Christ. I understand you’ll be hesitant to see and understand this very different view point because the initial error is so repugnant to digest in the first place, but this is definitely what Paul is teaching in Romans. He is not talking about the chosen people being from Jews and Gentiles, he is talking about all Jews being chosen first, but all Gentiles also being chosen. See Rom 5:18-19, 11:32, Ephesians 2:11-16 and 3:6.
@@jasonsexton8682 Your understanding of the passages you present isn’t complete yet. The John 6 passage is often cited by Calvinist teachers in support of their theology, but it’s a shallow understanding. John 6:42-44 that you quote has Jesus saying no one can come to the father unless the father draws them, but it doesn’t say the father only draws some people. Because he doesn’t, he draws all people. Jesus’ words are an indication of man’s lack of authority, not God’s lack of action. And he’s right of course. John 6 is largely about Jesus defending his authority from God. It’s not about election at all. Jesus never talks about a group of people being unelect. It refers to Judas Iscariot in verse 65, but that’s hardly proof of the entire proposition of Calvinism. Even non-Calvinists agree God can overrule man’s will if he chooses, he just hardly ever does. What’s more, count the number of times Jesus implores his audience to take the action to surrender to God and have faith. Just in John 6 it’s something like 13 times. John 6 agregues against your position not for it. John 10 is even less so. The sheep are not Jesus’ sheep…because they don’t listen to Jesus, not because they were predestined to be reprobates from before the beginning of time. In verse 9 Jesus makes it clear that his sheep choose to enter through his gate. It’s the sheep doing the choosing. Calvinism is rebuked.
@@jasonsexton8682 Hi Jason. It is a big jump, and I am absolutely claiming it is the teaching of scripture. As the name of my channel suggests, this is my particular area of study. I’ve written a small book on this already and am working on a much larger one. Pauls teaching, in several instances, especially including Romans 9-11 and Ephesians 1-3, is a correction of Jewish theological errors. To understand Paul’s correction it is imperative to understand the precipitant error. The Jews believed (as they still believe) that their nation was chosen to be God’s people, and that all other people were not chosen and are not God’s people. It’s in error in at least a couple important ways, but that is and has always been their core belief. Thy believe all non-Jews are just…sub-human. It’s this ridiculously short-sighted error that Jesus corrected and Paul continued correcting. Their message is that yes, God chose the nation of Israel first, but he didn’t not-choose everyone else. He just chose them later, and in a different way, through Christ. I understand you’ll be hesitant to see and understand this very different view point because the initial error is so repugnant to digest in the first place, but this is definitely what Paul is teaching in Romans. He is not talking about the chosen people being from Jews and Gentiles, he is talking about all Jews being chosen first, but all Gentiles also being chosen. See Rom 5:18-19, 11:32, Ephesians 2:11-16 and 3:6.
I appreciate the time that you have put in this area of study and that you have put it into a book, however just because anyone writes a book does not make them correct and does not afford them the ability to make jumps in exegesis when it is not warranted. There are many many books written on Romans 9 by very intelligent and spiritual people on both sides, but that does not make them both correct. I do agree Paul is addressing an error in the belief of Israel, but it is a 2 fold error right now he is dealing with the fact that they think just because they are Jewish and they have all the blessings from vs 4-5 that means they are going to heaven (the other is that gentiles have no part). Paul addresses the problem that it appears God word has failed the Jewish people because they think they have all the blessing of v 4-5, in reality the word of God has not failed because “not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, 7 and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring” As far as all gentiles being chosen I think verses like Acts 13:48 (ESV): And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed. It would not seem that all gentiles are chosen for salvation in this case not all Jews or Gentiles based on Matthew 13:49-50 49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous 50 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth and Rev 20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. I do agree that individuals both Jews and Gentiles are chosen, but not that every individual Jew and Gentile are chosen. Based on your statements : ‘Romans 8, that the Gentiles have also been foreknown, called, blessed, glorified, along with the Jews so that it can now be seen that ALL people are chosen by God. No one is NOT chosen.” and “He is not talking about the chosen people being from Jews and Gentiles, he is talking about all Jews being chosen first, but all Gentiles also being chosen.” I am not sure why you exchanged the word justified with blessed in your first statement, when the KJV, ESV, and NASB all translate it as justified and the word means to make righteous. The only conclusion I can come to with the statements above is that you believe all people are called and chosen and justified and glorified. The more we send messages the more I begin to think that you are a universalist and believe that everyone is going to heaven.
5:50 Paul’s transition into 9 is because he’s remembering all of the vicious accusations the unbelieving Jews would always hurl at him right after he got done delivering the message he gave in Romans 8, that the Gentiles have also been foreknown, called, blessed, glorified, along with the Jews so that it can now be seen that ALL people are chosen by God. No one is NOT chosen.
I don't disagree with you some of the shift to the Jews may have been to the fact that he realizes that the Jews are not going to like that Paul was including the gentiles in the promises of romans 8, but I think it is more than just expecting an argument from the Jews like in other areas of the Romans (like chapter 2, 3, 4, 6 (not that those are all Gentile and Jew problems)) and other areas in the bible, because this seems to be far more than just an argument of why the gentiles should be included and is a very passionate plea of his heart, so that is why I think, as he ponders what is said in romans 8 he feels the weight of what his kinsmen are missing out on.
I agree both Gentiles and Jews are chosen by God, but it almost seems that you make a jump in your argument from gentiles and Jews “are all chosen people of God” to “no one is not chosen” meaning every individual. If that is the case, that is a big jump. Especially since you Group the chosen with those who are foreknown, called, Justified, and glorified. Which would be indicating that every individual is going to be justified and glorified teaching universalism. If you are trying to say that romans 8:28-29 is specifically talking about the Jews or the gentiles as a group, there's no reason from the context to believe that would be the case as above and below are very specifically talking about those who are in Christ and have the spirit and putting to death the deeds of the body. I am going to assume that is not what you are meaning but that you mean that God chooses every individual for the possibility of salvation, but then you would need to detach every individual from the foreknown, called, justified, and glorified. Included a few verses below that show that not all are granted, Drawn, That only his sheep believe and come, And that the gospel is veiled to those who are lost, And though many may be called only a few are chosen.
John 6:42-44 (ESV): 42 They said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, ‘I have come down from heaven’?” 43 Jesus answered them, “Do not grumble among yourselves. 44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
John 6:65 (ESV): 65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
John 10:24-30 (ESV): “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.” 25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
2 Cor 4 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5 For what we proclaim is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, with ourselves as your servants[c] for Jesus' sake. 6 For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.”
@@jasonsexton8682 Hi Jason. It is a big jump, and I am absolutely claiming it is the teaching of scripture. As the name of my channel suggests, this is my particular area of study. I’ve written a small book on this already and am working on a much larger one.
Pauls teaching, in several instances, especially including Romans 9-11 and Ephesians 1-3, is a correction of Jewish theological errors. To understand Paul’s correction it is imperative to understand the precipitant error. The Jews believed (as they still believe) that their nation was chosen to be God’s people, and that all other people were not chosen and are not God’s people. It’s in error in at least a couple important ways, but that is and has always been their core belief. Thy believe all non-Jews are just…sub-human.
It’s this ridiculously short-sighted error that Jesus corrected and Paul continued correcting. Their message is that yes, God chose the nation of Israel first, but he didn’t not-choose everyone else. He just chose them later, and in a different way, through Christ.
I understand you’ll be hesitant to see and understand this very different view point because the initial error is so repugnant to digest in the first place, but this is definitely what Paul is teaching in Romans. He is not talking about the chosen people being from Jews and Gentiles, he is talking about all Jews being chosen first, but all Gentiles also being chosen. See Rom 5:18-19, 11:32, Ephesians 2:11-16 and 3:6.
@@jasonsexton8682 Your understanding of the passages you present isn’t complete yet. The John 6 passage is often cited by Calvinist teachers in support of their theology, but it’s a shallow understanding. John 6:42-44 that you quote has Jesus saying no one can come to the father unless the father draws them, but it doesn’t say the father only draws some people. Because he doesn’t, he draws all people. Jesus’ words are an indication of man’s lack of authority, not God’s lack of action. And he’s right of course. John 6 is largely about Jesus defending his authority from God. It’s not about election at all. Jesus never talks about a group of people being unelect. It refers to Judas Iscariot in verse 65, but that’s hardly proof of the entire proposition of Calvinism. Even non-Calvinists agree God can overrule man’s will if he chooses, he just hardly ever does. What’s more, count the number of times Jesus implores his audience to take the action to surrender to God and have faith. Just in John 6 it’s something like 13 times. John 6 agregues against your position not for it.
John 10 is even less so. The sheep are not Jesus’ sheep…because they don’t listen to Jesus, not because they were predestined to be reprobates from before the beginning of time. In verse 9 Jesus makes it clear that his sheep choose to enter through his gate. It’s the sheep doing the choosing. Calvinism is rebuked.
@@jasonsexton8682 Hi Jason. It is a big jump, and I am absolutely claiming it is the teaching of scripture. As the name of my channel suggests, this is my particular area of study. I’ve written a small book on this already and am working on a much larger one.
Pauls teaching, in several instances, especially including Romans 9-11 and Ephesians 1-3, is a correction of Jewish theological errors. To understand Paul’s correction it is imperative to understand the precipitant error. The Jews believed (as they still believe) that their nation was chosen to be God’s people, and that all other people were not chosen and are not God’s people. It’s in error in at least a couple important ways, but that is and has always been their core belief. Thy believe all non-Jews are just…sub-human.
It’s this ridiculously short-sighted error that Jesus corrected and Paul continued correcting. Their message is that yes, God chose the nation of Israel first, but he didn’t not-choose everyone else. He just chose them later, and in a different way, through Christ.
I understand you’ll be hesitant to see and understand this very different view point because the initial error is so repugnant to digest in the first place, but this is definitely what Paul is teaching in Romans. He is not talking about the chosen people being from Jews and Gentiles, he is talking about all Jews being chosen first, but all Gentiles also being chosen. See Rom 5:18-19, 11:32, Ephesians 2:11-16 and 3:6.
I appreciate the time that you have put in this area of study and that you have put it into a book, however just because anyone writes a book does not make them correct and does not afford them the ability to make jumps in exegesis when it is not warranted. There are many many books written on Romans 9 by very intelligent and spiritual people on both sides, but that does not make them both correct.
I do agree Paul is addressing an error in the belief of Israel, but it is a 2 fold error right now he is dealing with the fact that they think just because they are Jewish and they have all the blessings from vs 4-5 that means they are going to heaven (the other is that gentiles have no part). Paul addresses the problem that it appears God word has failed the Jewish people because they think they have all the blessing of v 4-5, in reality the word of God has not failed because “not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, 7 and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring” As far as all gentiles being chosen I think verses like Acts 13:48 (ESV): And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed. It would not seem that all gentiles are chosen for salvation in this case not all Jews or Gentiles based on Matthew 13:49-50 49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous 50 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth and Rev 20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. I do agree that individuals both Jews and Gentiles are chosen, but not that every individual Jew and Gentile are chosen.
Based on your statements :
‘Romans 8, that the Gentiles have also been foreknown, called, blessed, glorified, along with the Jews so that it can now be seen that ALL people are chosen by God. No one is NOT chosen.” and “He is not talking about the chosen people being from Jews and Gentiles, he is talking about all Jews being chosen first, but all Gentiles also being chosen.” I am not sure why you exchanged the word justified with blessed in your first statement, when the KJV, ESV, and NASB all translate it as justified and the word means to make righteous. The only conclusion I can come to with the statements above is that you believe all people are called and chosen and justified and glorified. The more we send messages the more I begin to think that you are a universalist and believe that everyone is going to heaven.