Not really a secret - change your title it’s very much bait and manufactured drama. It’s totally ok to not declare everything in business - it can give you competitive advantage and i think the UK guitar industry needs all the support it can get… you go Lee and company!!!
Funnily enough I always thought that Victory was an in-house brand from Andertons, I think I got that idea because of body language and tone when they talked about it, it was like "well, this feels more like an add than usual"
Same here. I always kind of had the feeling, given the tone Lee, Rabea, Rob, and Pete would always take with the amps, and the fact that they were the signature artist for the amps, that Victory was an Andertons house brand. I don't like that Lee wont disclose fully his role in the company, and would play a semantics game to seemingly avoid it, but I do understand Lee not seeing himself as a large enough part of the company to note if he is in fact greatly divorced from the operations of the brand.
Yep. A rabbit hole not worth jumping into. The time to scour the web for info on the subject would probably be better spent on enriching one's personal life, and the family and friends around them. In the grand scheme of life, it's absolutely meaningless. I wish KDH had music to share. I like music😁
@@patrickkish6662well good news we have someone covering it so we don’t have to do any of the leg work 😂 and I personally do find it interesting and entertaining to watch this stuff. Reminds me they are all trying to make a buck off of us 🤷🏽♂️
Victory amps are moderately priced new. Used you can find some great deals. I was on the fence between Victory and Friedman. In the end the Friedman did more for me and was the Keeper.
I have to disagree with everyone else's comments and I will explain why. This video and its contents is 'MEh Meh and Meh again'. This video for no good reason whatsoever is having a dig at Lee of Andertons, simply to get views and likes for his 'RUclips' channel. 62k views = about $60 dollars? Don't spend it all at once.... Completely pointless video, all that is going on is, (you might have heard of this term?)' 'Marketing'. So what if Lee does not 'disclose', every single company he is involved in. If Mr Andertons was using a company as a cover, to import Columbian finest white powder. You would have a story but this is just Meh, and pointless. In the Uk for years Jhs, (not Josh the other one based in the uk), had a magazine in music shops that advertised their own gear, and of course, gave it glowing reviews. No one gave two dumps about that, and no one should really give the same about this video and its contents.
@@james1658KAAY, Lee’s burner account. Stop being so butthurt. You’re obviously in the minority here. These are the type of videos that are liked and shared, thus growing the channel. Keep a close eye on KDH’s subscriber count over the next month and get back to me on whether he’s gained or lost followers.
@@james1658 I'm sorry, if this is how you do marketing in the UK then you are breaking the law. This is a story that evolved out of a question that MANY people in the industry and consumers of these products have asked MANY TIMES. That question was simply, "Who owns Victory?". The fact that Andertons came up was not a fabrication for views. It was part of the answer that was hidden underneath our noses. I'm sure you are a fine person but I can't help but entirely disagree with your sentiment and your point of view.
I've noticed your appearance of health has been diminishing with each video. It's about the music, and your mental and physical well being. Think about it, KDH. You're not posting videos of yourself playing. Music is about the song. Not the politics of product production. Think about it as you investigate the image in the mirror
he seems to be in a pretty good shape in my opinion .. and I guess his choice, as a musician, is to not only show him play, but to inform us on what's happening in that industry which is living and existing because of us, consumers, who are buying their gears ... sometimes based on lies and false reviews unfortunately ... KDH work is tremendous, extremely valuable and we should thank him for that.
Disclosing brand deals or ownership (no matter how small) must happen when influencers bring product onto their channel. This was drilled into the heads of all influencers ages ago but there still seem to be the remaining few that try to duck and dodge it.
Great video. What’s weird is that Lee could have gone the exact opposite direction with his disclosures and garnered a lot of interest and respect. “I have access to some of the best ears and fingers in the UK, I’m an expert in guitar products, my team and I have played virtually every guitar amp ever made, yada yada” and made this a selling point, rather than a secret.
Had he been honest from the start, there would be no problem. Now he has a ten year history of hiding his conflict of interest. His credibility is gone.
It could be the other partners wanted his involvement secret on the vids to get a buzz going and he played ball. Maybe a hard one to admit to after ten years.
I’ve always thought of Victory being synonymous with Anderton’s, this video just confirms it. Either way, they’re killer amps and I do like Lee (his public persona at least).
@@Thatdudeoverthere69420I’m sure we’ve all met a ceo much worse than Mr Lee. He’s a great guy who’s managed to accomplish the impossible task of taking over the family business and bringing it into the modern age
@@Thatdudeoverthere69420 Yeah I got the vibe that he just didn't mention it and then felt weird bringing it up rather than being malicious ... still makes them very untrustworthy. Stupidity isn't an excuse in cases like this.
I gotta say KDH, When I first started watching your videos a while back I was like "man this guy hates everything". (I am laughing while I write this). But as time has marched on, I realized that you are the hero we need. I love your content keep up the great work.
You know, leeches are pretty disgusting little creatures, but they can be useful time to time, heroes for some, parasites for others, so is KDH. And if there is no new YT drama, just invent your own, right? Just some toughts for the internet moral police... LOL
The Landlord one really surprised me. As far as I know, they never acknowledged being a part of that, while also liking them very vocally. That sounds very dubious to me unfortunately.
I’ll never forget I once bought a landlord pedal from andertons that turned out to be faulty and I just wanted to return it, not swap for a non faulty unit. The rep actually tried to convince me to swap it as “It works out better for us if we just exchange tone city stuff”. Which gave me 2 impressions. 1) Respectfully, I don’t give a shit what “works out better for you”, give me my refund 😂 and 2) “Oh, so Landlord pedals are just rebranded tone city circuits”. Not a slight on Landlord though, I’ve used a lock-in tuner for ages, great little unit.
@@BaBaBaBenny Tone City, Landlord, loads of those in-house brands are exactly the same pedals. Just rebranded for their respective retailers. Same goes for most of the Aliexpress pedals and a lot of the other cheap mini-pedals on the market.
I've always thought Lee or Rob had their hand in Victory amps in some way after watching a lot of their videos. I was curious about them when I last needed a new amp but went with something else.
Personally, I felt there was significant shade and drama - I don't have a dog in this fight mind you, but i definitely felt the tone was very provocative. The way it came across to me was "I'm going to be snappy and condescending for nearly a half hour at Lee Anderton, even tho when I directly asked him he said 'yup I'm part owner'".
@@afaella3 Lee made a bunch of videos promoting Victory's products without disclosing that relationship. That is misleading. That he came clean when directly asked about it does not change that he misled the public in the first place. Frankly, Lee had no other choice but to disclose when directly asked, as lying about it is a criminal offence. Pointing out that someone is potentially breaching advertising ethics isn't "shade and drama", it's providing the consumer with important information. This video resulted in Lee admitting something he hadn't made sufficiently clear to customers beforehand. I don't see why you're running interference on behalf of a business owner who got caught breaching advertising ethics. Lee isn't paying you to do his PR. Do you think businesses shouldn't be required to disclose relevant relationships when promoting products? That's a difficult stance to defend.
Well done. The Martin Kidd interview at the 4:22 mark actually tells a whole bunch when the real story is known. Martin cleverly pivots when he seems to realize that he might accidentally reveal the well-kept ownership secret.
One thing I really like about you KDH, is even when you have dirt on somebody, you don't belittle them for it. You are always straightforward with the facts, and forward about the ethics on why you are doing it, without outright attacking anybody's character. It really allows me to trust your work more as it doesn't seem like a way to mindlessly stroke your ego about being right, but because you actually care about getting to the bottom of these issues.
@@FlyingCircusAct dirt is a pretty vague word when used like this. In this case I’m just meaning potential drama. But KDH doesn’t make it any worse than it already is by adding any more drama, he respectfully brings to light consumer issues in an incredibly professional way. This is genuine journalism and I was just being a bit hyperbolic for brevity.
@@WeyounSix I appreciate your honesty, extremely rare in todays world. I’m still left wondering where the issue lies, is there pending litigation with this? Something “shady” going on? From what I’ve witnessed, Lee’s fair across the board with amp reviews and the like. Not sue what I’m missing.
@@FlyingCircusActThe issue is that as an influencer you need to be transparent about where your interest lies. We all know he has a vested interest in Andertons and the channel is there to sell products from his shop. No issues there. What we didn’t know is that he is part owner of Victory a brand that he pushes continuously over other amp manufacturers. People watch that and assume it’s unbiased as he sells all of them anyway. Whet he’s not saying is that he also has a vested interest in that brand and it’s market share, therefore it’s not an unbiased opinion but one made as the owner of that company who stands to make money from the sale of Victory no matter where you buy them from.
The worst part is private label products like this are common place in the industry; a way music stores can offer lower prices on low end gear by cutting out brands and pulling straight from the distributor. It also helps with offering accessories and products as add-ons in sales to increase margins. Michell, Proline, Gamma, Delta Lab(the pedals), Live Wire, Harbinger are all Guitar Center Brands. Musician's Gear, and Rouge were Musician's Friend. Sam Ash had Micheal Kelly, and Samson. and Mars had a bunch too that I can't remember. This is common and only shady when you hide it.
I have definitely seen Lee in an Andertons video from a few years back mention that he had an involvement in Victory, I remember it as he just mentioned it in passing and my ears pricked up thinking ''well you've never mentioned that before''. Not really a problem but something to bear in mind when they are pushing Victory products.
Really? Can you share the videos? I don't think I've heard him say anything about any involvement with the brand. But I haven't watched every video. But KDH couldn't find anything either. I mean, other than being friends or helping in development or whatever.
Yeah he had involvement, he would give advice and be asked his opinion on products. He compared speaker cabinets etc. "Involvement" and "part ownership" are quite different though.
@@mrcoatsworth429 Now you're asking... it was just a passing remark in one video, as I recall he was kind of 'off set', hand held camera 'behind the scenes' sort of stuff, pointing out a Victory prototype in the corner of the room, I think a 'work in progress' for a potential signature for Rob or Rabea. What he said wasn't a 'we're working with them' kinda thing, it was definitely something inferring that Andertons had a stake in Victory. As I said, that's why my ears pricked up and since then it's always been in the back of my mind when they feature Victory Amps. It was only a five second bit in a video maybe 3-4 years ago. Good luck finding it!
@@mrbrick5907 Thanks! Well, I'm not about to look for it myself haha Now we know what his involvement is. But what do you mean by "now you're asking..." At what other time should I have been asking?
As someone who, years ago, quit my job as a daily newspaper writer over a matter concerning integrity, honesty, and what I was and was not allowed to write about something, I appreciate your investigative integrity and tenacity in attempting to get to the bottom of things and then not being afraid to say it regardless of what people will and will not conclude. I've really nothing against Andertons as a business, however, unlike a lot of people, I've never been much of a fan of their videos; they've always come across as a bit cliquey to me, so it was interesting to find, as a result of your investigative efforts here, that there is apparently something more substantial in terms of ownership and interests to that cliquey feeling than just my personal perception. And with regards to ASA standards breaches, as well as having been a news writer in the past, I also worked in advertising for a number of years. So I can tell them from a position of some personal experience that they really do need to get on that and correct things not merely as a matter of integrity, but also to avoid some potential fines and other punitive measures, because the ASA does actually have some teeth when it comes to things like that.
I don't think any standards are being broken - Lee is an investor in Victory as a private individual, not the store, and the videos are the product of the store (which he happens to own as a separate entity). Is there a conflict? Yes, but it is hardly a scandalous one - see my comment, this is a niche industry dealing in pretty small money values, so raising capital is very hard and this sort of arrangement is very common. Let me put it this way - if Lee's involvement in Victory, as one of 9 owners and the primary dealer, is £100k, but his involvement in Andertons where his is the principal is, say, £5million, then I can see why he doesn't really see it as a conflict, and why he always says "those guys at Victory". He doesn't see his minor-to-him financial investment as being a big deal. He also doesn't see much return on that compared to what he sees from, say, Chapman (whose value is only £250k, by the way - did I mention that this is a NICHE industry?).
@@MrLivebynight If you have to hide your ownership of companies you review, then it's obviously a hopelessly dishonest position. The dude proved he has no personal integrity by sticking to keeping his personal ownership role for 10 years under wraps as he tried to give his investment a boost with his "unbiased" rave reviews. That is about as obvious an example as you can have, of a completely biased individual who knows how little credibility glowing reviews of a company from one of it's owners are afforded. So in other words, he understands his own bias very well and how that appears to consumers, hence decided to hide it, and he can't pretend it was a moment of weakness, since he continued to cover it up as he ran a stealth promotion campaign for them disguised as unbiased reviewer comments, publicly for a decade. It wasn't a decision to lie once, but to hide the truth as ongoing policy, from the intended audience (amp shoppers), to influence their buying behavior towards the only behavior that was going to boost his portfolio of business holdings; for a decade. He hid the truth as he was later forced to admit and made a pathetic excuse for, to make people believe he wasn't involved, because he wanted his promotions to be mistaken for unbiased reviews from a brand fan with no personal stake in whether people responded by purchasing or not. Does honesty mean nothing to you, that even legal standards aren't low enough; you have to excuse the lies of someone who can't even manage to muster up the personal integrity to stay on the right side of advertising laws?
@@Gregorypeckory Perfect summation of the situation. Clearly Anderton lied by omission in every Video with a Victory amp in it. He must have considered that before the cameras rolled, every time. Chose not to be honest. I think it's pretty serious stuff. The other amp makers featured in those videos should seriously consider their relationship with andertons. The videos have to be treated as biased.
Kinda unrelated to the video, but your story gave me major flashbacks. I used to have a little blog reviewing things from time to time and when I was at uni I got a gig as a content writer for a review site. I wasn’t studying journalism or anything and it didn’t pay much, but given my only other income was stocking freezers at a supermarket twice a week and repairing gameboys to sell on eBay it was very appreciated! They were also pretty patient with me as I was very green - I had to learn real basics of professional reviews like you can’t say it’s bad, you have to say it’s stronger in other areas or find a positive on the back of a downside, the top 5 shootouts, etc that get more traction and mean you can say x is great for y, a great for b, etc and avoid saying directly ‘this is pants’. That was all kind of okay, I learnt to play the game - you’re selling ad space and advertisers don’t want any beef, they might even be suppliers of products you’ll be reviewing in a different article, plus if you say everything’s crap people stop giving you stuff, and not a lot of places can afford to buy all their review products and turn a profit. It is what it is - I think most people understand; it’s kinda like the 5 star rule right? If it’s a professional product review or a coffee shop eating on google, the scale doesn’t really go from 0-5, it goes from 4.0-5.0. But then I ran into one company I just couldn’t review. Every time I reviewed a product it’d get bounced back to me and they were not accepting anything other than glowing reviews. I read reviews other had read for the site and it was all the same and this just went on and on. I’m actually keeping the product field and publication under wraps because this is going back 15 years and I don’t know who owns it now or what the deal is, but yeah it kept bugging me. I’d try and not review the products, and keep getting assigned them. I asked over and over if this is just some kind of paid product placement or a big advertiser or anything I could understand or had encountered before and all I got was weasel words along the lines of it’s not about the brand, it’s about what you wrote… and it was all too fishy. I was at u I do didn’t care too much, but eventually looked into it, and it turned out it was just really invidious. Our publication was owned by this investment capital whatever firm that of course also owned this other company but when I started asking other writers about that it came out that it was actually all about pumping this company for an IPO and all manner of people were heavily invested personally in it. I figured my option at that point was invest myself and drink the cool aid or quit, so I quit. It kinda jaded me to how a lot of stuff works tbh
KDH, you have a very bright future. Smart, young, and driven. We are watching you grow up right in front of us and you're doing great. Never lose sight of your goals. Remain humble and never compromise your own integrity.
I actually had already thought Victory was an Anderton’s house brand but I can’t recall why. The whole UK gear manufacturing and retail industry is a very small circle
EXACTLY! This kind of weird "i gotcha" shit is not really warranted here. It's so unbelievably small and informal. Hence why Lee refers to them as the guys at Victory. The reason why he talks about Victory that way is because he FEELS that way. Instead of bleating "I OWN THIS BRAND GUYS" (or something far more reasonable) before playing something on one, he shows respect to the guys who DO run Victory's day-to-day shit and apply their awesome knowledge. I assume, at least partially, that the reason why Lee refuses to see himself as equal with them is because of that HUMAN dynamic. KDH, you're too rigid in how you're seeing this. Brand presentation, rigid assumptions about many things without self-reflecting on your own demands. How do you think the guys at Victory who are responsible for the hard work to create the product itself (the focus should be on who makes it in terms of HANDS ON THE PRODUCT) feel about this guy blasting that he is the owner? You need to think more critically KDH. There is nuance to these things. There's a lot more with the whole brand identity thing and I don't want to type up a whole storm about it.
@@JR_Taylor Think more, meaning critically attack your own position and/or try to build up Lee's so you can see more and find the correct conclusion by rocking back and forth between the practices to arrive at a more rounded understanding by settling between the two extremes. I don't think my position is extreme, there are valid reasons to reduce transparency on certain things because as buyers, we don't think in terms that are conducive to logical conclusions. Everyone suffers from this, that's what Lee was trying to say about the pedals being blindfolded. There's nothing secret or shady about this, it's how the consumer mind works
This has absolutely become my favorite guitar channel. It's so refreshing to hear calm and articulate news about the industry. It's like a high-gain channel for grownups. No prattle at 100 mph, editing out the pauses and saying "bruh" every 20 seconds. Sweet Jebus, please keep doing what you're doing \m/
I hope someday Lee can own all the companies. Maybe after Lee owns all the companies Dave Grohl can do all the music and the two can control the entire global music scene.
I can't believe how many negative comments there are on here. It's super disingenuous to be hawking a product like it's something cool you just discovered and not mentioning it's your own product. People can't see how this is very "I'm a used car salesman and I'm going to steer you towards my biggest commission."?
I've not always agreed with everything you've done on this channel. But, this is genuinely important information that the public should know. I always thought that Andertons fondness for Victory and how often their amps are featured on the channel was simply out of a genuine fondness for the product and wanting to support a fellow British company. It seems that actually, there was an undisclosed commercial interest behind it. People seem to forget that Andertons are an equipment selling business FIRST, not a RUclips channel. Great job bringing this to light!
@@creamwobbly I think it matters because it's a very simple question that someone has gone out of their way to avoid/hide. It's disingenuous, which I find interesting. You're correct about American vs UK disclosure laws, but I don't think that changes the matter of transparency, whether it's legally required or not. Just my two cents.
Plus, even if they weren’t linked in ownership: they sell the product. Every product they talk about is one they’re selling. In the case of someone whom you already know is trying to sell you something, whether or not they own part of the parent company is…not really informative.
@@NewnodrogbobAs KDH said in the video, this isn't the case if you live outside the UK - an Andertons video could be seen as fair to each amp they compare, and any bias towards Victory in that video could sell you an amp from a local dealer (when you didn't know it was the owner telling you it beats a Vox/Marshall/Fender/whatever)
@@matthewwatt2295 I am in the US. This is a bullshit argument. KDH says in the video that the retailer’s cut of the profit will be “close to” the same for all products. Define “close to.” Unless Lee owns the Lion’s share of Victory and is making huge profits from them, the differences between the deals from each manufacturer will be as significant an introducer of bias as the dividends from his stock. Since I don’t know the ins and outs of those deals, I don’t just blindly follow what the Anderton’s guys say. Not that they generally endorse one product over another anyway. It’s also worth noting that these aren’t print articles. They’re recording the gear. The viewer/listener is given plenty of data from which to draw their own conclusion. This isn’t just some pitch man telling you that their soap is the best. This is a big fat nothingburger. Turns out when you get your clicks by being a muckraker, you have to constantly be on the lookout for new muck to rake.
@@Newnodrogbob Honestly, I see where you're coming from, those are some good points. I think this video has done its 'job' by getting Lee to publicise the fact he partially owns Victory amps so people know that when he talks about them. I'm not a huge fan of the 'drama' angle from the title/thumbnail either.
Just as an FYI. GAP isn’t Andertons. It’s a distribution company owned and run by the owners of Guitarguitar, Andertons and PMT (GAP is an acronym of their companies) so that they could have more buying power on certain products. They realised they could make more margin on cheaper products instead of going through companies like Stagg. Companies like Eastcoast and TourTech exist only for this purpose. You’ll notice only these three companies sell these brands. Great investigating though.
Hey KDH. The following brands are legally affiliated with either Lee or Andertons. Ive also included the gross profit margins on products when sold via Andertons. Tone City Pedals - 70-80% Landlord FX Pedals - 70-80% Chapman Guitars - 35-45% Burns Guitars - 30-40% Tourtech - 50-90% Stagg - 50-80% Faith Guitars - 30-45% Eastcoast Guitars - 45-55% Victory Amps - 35-50% There are probably more, but this is what can be remembered. Source- Ex Andertons employee.
@@JamesMears76 he uses ThorpyFx to help design some Victory pedals (but only because Dan Coggins is a ThorpyFX employee, not because Adrian has any talent whatsoever). Otherwise he'd employ Coggins directly and not deal with the secretly most hated man in FX pedals.
@@ghalsor the signature Rabea and Danish Pete signature pedals, sold for £44.99 were purchased by Andertons for £8.31 a unit. If you bought both, you got a "free" power supply and daisy chain. The plug was £1.10, the daisy chain was £0.51 (normally retailing at £9.99 and £4.99 respectively). So you'd pay £89.98 for £18.23 worth of product. That applies to any and all Tone City mini-pedal deal.
I love it when KDH drops one of these videos. He's exposed a lot of stuff about the guitar world and anyone with a hint of curiosity could watch these and walk away more informed.
he took a LOT of flak from chapman's fans, and has come around to it so full circle that he continue his reporting on the issue, and even met rob and namm
@@7DavesToDieIt absolutely matters. We should know that Lee, who owns a giant channel and music store, partially owns Victory. If Anderson's didn't stock them, no. But they do and he does videos on them regularly.
Some time ago I‘ve tried to look up the exact same thing, but stopped at the official trade mark database - I couldn’t draw the link from there. Congratulations, well done!
I guess I always just assumed Victory was an Andertons thing based on how often their amps appeared in Andertons videos and how the aesthetics looked in line with Andertons aesthetics.
I think it's kind of weird that Lee didn't just say he owns a major/minor stake in Victory for disclosure. He's usually pretty good about disclosing that. I actually had assumed Victory was related to Andertons in some way for years until the Tone Talk episode... which isn't great in light of this video. I mean, Rabea, Rob, and Pete all ended up with signature amps and I think those were all of the big guitar hosts.
@@scott6588literally a video of Andertons holding it from people right in front of you… regardless of wether (you thought) you knew or not, they held that info quite clearly lol, you’re missing the point
@@jackflynn-oakley1937 nope.... literally a video subtracting the times lee clearly insinuates bias towards victory amps. Everybody knew. Just like the Peavey videos, it's part of the information, minus the parts that debunk the narrative.
I mean, I guess it was dubious. But, as KDH points out, the law is very clear and communication on such matters has to be crystal clear. Even if the assumption is an obvious one to make, you still have to disclose such things.
I absolutely didnt think that. I just thought that Victory is a young team of guys that is heavily betting on the youtube game with abdertons because they are just friends
Since Victory amps started to frequently appear in Anderton's videos I just naturally assumed that it was a house brand. Nevertheless I wouldn't have guessed the actual complexety behind it all and KDH once again delivers in clearing things up!
@richardharrold9736 ehh, I'd argue the "without busting the bank" series and Rabea Massaad's playing in those is what put them on the map in terms of youtube views.
This video was again a complete treat! I love these videos and appreciate the work put into it. I have nothing against Lee, seems like a good guy and I think he's a good businessman that at least tries to do mostly the right thing. At least compared to MANY others.
I did hear a few years ago while working for PMT that Victory was partially owned by Anderton’s/Chapman and that was why we couldn’t stock them. But honestly I get it because now they’re a great brand where as before they were very close to collapse on a number of occasions. I also just assumed it was mentioned by them that this was the case but I guess I just filled the gaps based on what I knew from work
Very fair comments and information from KDH here. Chapper's probably watched this and thought 'Whew, thats a relief, I got off lightly... glad he didn't go after me this time around'. 😬
Former GC employee here. GC never has to tell its employees to sell more of the house brands, all they have to do is tell the commissioned sales staff how much more profit is built into those products. Fwiw, they never told any of us to be opaque about what brands were owned by GC.
Great video. I really like the Andertons channel and their content and I'm surprised that this was not disclosed straight up, as I do recall some of the videos with disclaimers related to other brands. Based on this, I would expect them to at least put out a short video owning up for transparency's sake.
When they did a Danish Pete amp it is pretty obvious who's behind it. We'va all known for years. I never knew about the regulations breach though. CLASSIC KDH! Keep it up!!
The Landlord doesn't have to visit the effects pedals in order to collect the dividends. Given the prominence of Victory in the videos it did feel very interwoven. Wouldn't be surprised if Lee was more involved with the other brands like Tone City
Great video! You really do your homework and don't just go for drama. You are becoming Guitarzilla (which is meant as a compliment, in case you are not a fan of him 😁). Keep at it. I will watch Lee's response in a bit, but I imagine he appreciates what you do as well even if you call him out like this.
Lee is a slippery one. It makes watching any new gear review mighty tough to look at without doubting eyes. Andertons should really pass the reviews of Lee owned or partially owned items to someone else. Transparency is a valued trait these days
I think it's likely exactly what Lee said, that with the other brands he is an active member and on the board or equivalent, with Victory he is, assumably, just an investor.
@@alittlebitgoneBaloney. 10 years of pushing VA w/o once mentioning a financial interest. Even an accidental mentioning … no, he intentionally misled people by never saying anything while acting like the reviews were unbiased.
@@carpediem4413 I don't think it's as cynical as everyone's making out. Knowing Lee, I would have thought it's less shrewd money grabbing, and more likely just not wanting to take credit for the work of others, though I do understand that in this cancel culture we live in people will prefer to jump on the bandwagon and demand his head on a plate. Are Victory amps rubbish? Anyone I know who has a Victory product or has owned one loves them. So maybe he is biased, or maybe his bias is based on believing in a well made product that he invested in once. Nobody really knows how much money Lee Anderton does or doesn't receive for his investment anyway. I don't think there's a story here, personally. If you're basing your £2k amp purchase on RUclips reviews without going and trying the equipment out, Anderson's or not, then you might have bigger problems.
@@jasonleaman. if it's just Lee not wanting to take credit, then he could publicly state that he was an initial investor in the company but now no longer has any business ties. Easy enough and wouldn't harm any reputations. But he won't say that, will he?
So many time your video keep me on the edge of my seat watching!! Your an accomplished story teller! Usually I start watching them just wanting to space out for bit and end up with dry eyes because I forget to blink.
@@Ebbandflow805 It certainly can be. It depends on the motive, consequences,and the "damage" it can and could cause (and how many lawyers your company has) It's always illegal morally. At least in my definition of morality.
Fellow Irishman and RUclipsr here. Been watching your videos for a while now and have to say, dude…For me, this has been the most enjoyable one yet. Superb research, professional standpoint and presentation (not mean spirited in any way, shape or form), and killer points made throughout the duration. Keep doing what you’re doing! ❤🤘
Wow, I’m impressed! Thank you for not giving up on this and doing all the legwork. This has been on more minds than just yours. I do hope Lee follows up with this and admits, at least the smallest of wrongdoing and purposely hiding this. I really hope he does. Thanks again and thanks for not making it any shorter. When it comes to something like this, we want at all.
I've watched a lot of Anderton's videos for guitar/gear reviews, so naturally it peaked my curiosity when I came across this video. And while it doesnt appear that there's an earth shattering conspiracy regarding Anderton's that we all should be concerned about, and it doesn't bother me in the least if someone's partnership with a company is 100% transparent, what I will say is that your thoroughness in which you laid everything out (no doubt as a result of a lot of research) was appreciated, and the articulation in which you spoke was commendable. Other than that, to each their own as to what intrigues you and the topics you decide to talk about, but as for anyone at Anderton's, including the gentleman you specifically referred to, I feel they do an overwhelming amount of good for all of us thru their videos that would easily offset any issues such as the ones you mention in this video. They appear to be genuinely good guys from everything I've seen.
I think the question would be, What companies does Lee Anderton have interest and investment in? Nothing wrong with it, but would be nice to see the list
Yeah, Lee's lack of disclosure is weird b/c no one would have cared. He seems like a righteous dude and he's handled this WAY better than a lot of YT celebs so I'm happy to still be able to rock with Anderton's but keep it above board moving forward, yeah?
@@flashpointnova I have no problem with Lee, I really enjoy the videos and especially his dynamic with all the other team members. It is simply weird that he seems to actively avoid talking about his ownership of the brand. Just seems fishy, even if it may not be intentional.
@@louissanderson719 Involved as in being friends and somehow working together with them sure. Owning them? Absolutely not. And that's important, in my opinion, for the reasons mentioned in the video.
I tend to take videos from Andertons (and most guitar retailers) with a grain of salt because they are all trying to sell gear, so they're never going to be critical of what they're showing, even when they should be. It's almost-but not quite-like a conflict of interest... but this is a whole new version of that because they're hiding their interest in selling a certain brand and that is definitely a conflict
I don't know why people don't understand this. Anderton's is a music store. What kind of videos is a music store going to make? It seems like this is going over people's heads. Very strange.
man, you should write dissertions on stuff. your research path is very transparent and understandable. all question that pop up in my head, you answer right after.. and you answer even more things i didn't think about at that moment and that is.. so satisfying for my pseudo-autistic brain.
Ownership disclosure is an absolute must for Review videos. Really surprised at learning about this. It is great that he owns these brands but should definitely have stated that, I have bought a couple of Victory products based on their videos.
In the case of andertons where every video is an advertisement for a product they are trying to sell it is not as bad (cause you know those aren't really reviews, they will never be anything but positive), assuming they are not making comparisons. But yeah generally best to always disclose.
@@JoePesos I disagree. They oftentimes do give honest opinions. And they do a lot of shootouts, where there are winners and losers. When shooting out different amps, it really doesn't matter to the seller whether the buyer choses brand X or Y. But it does matter when the seller gains more from selling brand Z, because they're the owner. In that case, the seller is clearly biased, because it's in their interest that brand Z wins the shootouts and sells better.
@@mrcoatsworth429 Listen again to those shootout videos you mentioned. There is never a negative word left about anything, it's entertaining to listen to those creative phrases. A product is never bad just "for a different kind of player" and everything "sounds good man, doesn't it?" 🙂
@@thomasbruggemann5269 I didn't mean that they often say negative things. But in the latest delay shootout, they're pretty negative towards the MXR carbon copy. Honest opinion. And that way, they're sure to steer at least a few people away from that product. In the same way they can steer people away from, say, a blackstar amp and towards a Victory. Especially if it's not a blindfold video. The difference is that Lee is making more money if people buy a Victory. Oh, and in the Orange Super Crush video, Pete says "it doesn't sound nice." Not relevant to the Victory thing, but just shows they don't always say good things.
Thanks for the great work. The only thing I would say is assuming there is no bias to one brand or another because you don't have a stake in it is also a misconception. Even when you don't own the brands that you sell, profits or incentives can be drastically different among brands. Some brands might have 30% profit, others 40%. Some can give incentives like free trips or free merchandise, etc. In summary, always take anything that you see online with a grain of salt.
Apply the patterns thing fully then? Lee has multiple connections to several companies and is very open and pro active about stating his involvement. Therefore its is a safe assumption to make that the reasons Lee has for not shouting Victory involvement from the roof tops are not nefarious. I think his response is very consistent and says he basically helped a friend out at the start and since then has gotten a much more passive role , which I suspect does not exceed a small dividend. Also maybe its a matter of respect for Martyn. Cornford amps were a highly respected brand, and maybe Lee holds Martyn as a figure that should be respected and maybe felt the world did not need to know the details of his involvement, partly because what he claims is likely true and is the dynamic described, and maybe there is deeper stuff. Maybe he is also saving face for his friend a little and allowing Martyn to rebirth himself and his amp career and receive the shine he feels he deserves? Maybe Lee does not wish to upstage his friend? Honestly I dont think you have "uncovered" anything other than what most of the guitar world assumed. In this instance, whilst I get that you are talking abut a principle you feel has been crossed, I think this is an exception to the rule moment and you have basically looked for the sinister where there is nothing of the sort. Lee's other company involvements are enough to indicate that, like you yourself said..."we are looking for patterns" so don't ignore the most obvious pattern just so it fits you narrative? (I don't think you did this consciously, but I do think your motivation is content)
I see a lot of people (or at least a few) commenting that they always assumed he was part of Victory. I can safely say that thought never crossed my mind. Not once. I've always found the Andertons YT-channel to be good fun as well as trustworthy. I've always understood that at the end of the day, running a youtube channel had to make sense for them financially, so of course there had to be some element of sales in it. I have always felt that that part was fairly obvious. I remember seeing the Burns video and being pleased that he disclosed his involvement. Same with the Chapman stuff. Builds trust, makes you able to account for any bias. Honestly, I'm pretty disappointed to see that for whatever reason the Victory involvement was kept a secret. And I'd argue intentionally so, given the clip where both Mick Taylor and Rob Chapman disclose their relationship with the company. There's no way he didn't make an active choice to not say anything at that point. It's a shame. I really like their channel. I don't think I'll stop watching their stuff - overall I still feel they are pretty fun and honest people, but I can't say I won't be wondering what they aren't telling me the next time I tune in to one of their videos.
I would replace “honest” with “creative at not saying anything negative about any product ever”. It actually makes even more fun to watch, looking out for exactly those phrases
Mick Taylor has his fingers in a lot of pies too, which is fair enough. However I stopped watching the Pedal Show when I realised they were just constantly plugging products and tbh I don’t regard either of them as experts anyway, just enthusiasts with strong opinions, giving the impression they are experts. JHS, Vertex and Wampler channels is where I’d go for expertise.
@@glenh2752I met D & M in Minnesota once and thought they were arrogant aholes. Pretty disappointing that many of these guys have a great “friendly” personality on camera and you find out they are not at all what they portray. Sounds like LA is a bit of a shrewd operator and not the open/honest guy he has built his YT following on.
Go in full Sherlock Holmes lol, how that statement fits this topic another great show…. Keep on rocking…. i’ll stick to my two Marshall super lead 100 1971 with the rare three-quarter cabinets that keeps me friendly with the local police and puts cracks in my walls , now how this is how this Irishman who lives in New Jersey by way of Belfast rocks… Great show as usual keep on rock and Broski’s
You are the guitar industry sleuth. I think you've found a RUclips niche. This is new territory. Please keep it up. And, I look forward to a follow-up.
I'm still too new to guitar to even think about an amp bigger than my practice amp or an amp sim, let alone learn about them, but let me tell you i was 100% invested in this bit of sleuthing. Good work.
When all the Chapman controversy happened, which you were instrumental in, (pun intended) I realised there was some shady things going on at Andertons. I watched less of their videos, and valued less of their opinions. Now I know they cannot be trusted in the way we all thought. The conflict of interest is a powerful motivator for such a huge company. You are a smart guy, and have brought light to the dark swamp of RUclips advertising that we all wade through on a day to day basis. Thank you KDH.
Years ago, Rob and Lee did a video comparing the Orange Dark Terror and the Mesa Mini Rectifier. At the time, they were literally the exact two amps I was deciding between. They said the Orange was half the price and twice as good, and got way better tones out of it. I ended up trying both and bought the orange. I still love it to this day, some 15 years later, and don’t regret the purchase at all (though I’ve since bought a mesa mini head, too). However when I later found out about Robs relationship w Orange, I was a bit peeved thinking back on that video which, at the time, I viewed as a helpful resource, as something far more dishonest
I live in Massachusetts USA , I'm so used to our politicians That I almost missed the point LOL! Funny thing , I chose a Victory amp , Partly due to Andertons likes and use of Victory amps etc.. Everyone over here knows very little about Victory amps , Everyone here thinks Kieth Richards has been using Victory amps his whole career . I'm embarrassed to admit I didn't know any better.
I started learning guitar during Lockdown and found the Anderton's videos fed my growing love of playing badly and geeking out on guitar gear - it helped keeping me going. I learned all about multi fx and pedal lore - stuff I probably wouldn't have discovered otherwise. I bought a heavily discounted Victory valve amp through Andertons and learned how to play it using a reactive load box, without getting evicted for noise nuisance. Lee seems to be trying to produce British made products, which I applaud to the roof tops. We used to make stuff in this country - bless him. I see exactly what KDH is saying - and kudos to him for all his hard work and dogged research. However speaking personally, I don't feel in any way disadvantaged by watching the Andertons videos. Long may Lee/Chapman's/Andertons continue and prosper making stuff in Britain. I'm a rubbish player with sausage fingers and a tin ear, but I love my Victory Amp. :) - I bought a Landlord 'lock in' pedal which I'm less than keen on personally but next week I'm hoping to snag a Les Paul at a knockdown price in Andertons sale.
You're every brands wet dream. Buys a products and starts defending them because you feel a connection to them because they took some of your money (and in this case while not disclosing ownership of the product)
@@RAAZR- Oh, isn't he adorable! Yeah, maybe you need to get out a bit more, pal. I didn't say/do any of that. Gotta love trolls. Who else did you straw man today? 😂🤣😅
If you buy shares in any publicly listed company you become a co-owner. Does that make you part of their operations ? Same same if you're part of a consortium of investors for a private company, no ?
1) for the sake of integrity and transparency he should've disclosed ownership b) also it's the law. If he is set to make more money out of certain products demonstrated on Andertons TV, we need to know.
Honestly, it doesnt even matter. Theyre giving you a demo video on the product, people like what they hear, they buy it. They dont like what they hear, they move on. Theres countless of videos on so many different amps and guitars people have interest in from looking on GC, SW, Zz, Anderton or anywhere on the internet like on tiktoks or instagram reels. Lets be real. You just sound petty and envious really.
thanks for some great investigative journalism! the guitar world is full of really entertaining influencers that are rarely critical of the products and companies that they cover. the work you've done in this video, and several others you've produced, is immensely refreshing.
I know Anderson’s and have watched a lot of their victory amp reviews. I’ve always wanted a victory amp so have read a lot of reviews and researched them a lot. I had no idea Lee owned the company. The owner was demonstrating an amp form a company he owned and I had no idea. That doesn’t sit right.
At the very least I think RUclips should force Lee (or others in similar situations) to disclose the video's he is doing as "sponsored" if they own any part of the product or products in the video.
It's flagrant abuse of the RUclips advertising rules. All videos featuring any brands in which Lee Andertons or Andertons has a stake should be flagged as adverts - because that's what they are. You can't objectively review something you have a financial interest in.
US viewer here that Really enjoys your videos. Thorough and evenhanded. Not in a million years would I have predicted I'd find the intrigue of the UK music gear scene so compelling! Well done, KDH
Pretty much thought everyone knew that Andertons had an interest. Also thought it was pretty much accepted that their channel was about selling stuff. So why the surprise.
Congratulations on your Sherlock-Holmes-Mode investigative capabilities. I watched the whole thing although i'll probably never buy from Andertons because of taxes but i like their videos. I think it's smart to own as many brands as possible at least in part because that's what grocery discounters do and it seems to be very profitable. You could say he learned from the best.
Excellent work, @kdh. I’d done a little digging when the Burns news was announced and saw the link to the owners of the other retailers cited by another reply post on this video. The sheer volume of influencer marketing on RUclips makes it an unclearable minefield, and almost solely the reason why I’ve moved to buying from unconnected independent shops and individual sellers on Reverb. How much clearer the water would be without all the BS, eh? Yours, a former journalist who applauds your work.
I think that if Lee wanted to keep his part of victory’s ownership a secret then he would’ve made his other brands a secret also in order to make better sales. But that’s not the case, for the most part I think what he said was true, in that he really doesn’t feel like an owner because he doesn’t really have a influence in business decisions he was just sort of an investor early on that help victory get off the ground. I don’t know Lee personally but I don’t think him not disclosing his position with victory was meant with any financial gain intentions. But I guess it may have turned out that way, but that’s just my interpretation of it as an American because in America we’re already pretty skeptical and aware that brands that are pushed heavily by a company are probably those which they receive more profits from and work closely with.
I’ve always considered Andertons videos as showcase rather than review, they sell the products and are thus by definition not “independent reviews”. They probably should disclose any involvement, but its not something that bothers me. Having Lee have a statement at the start of every PRS video saying “I am friends with the owner and he once gave me and some of my staff members a free guitar” will be annoying.
Your free to make up your own mind, but there is a world of difference between someone being given a gift from the owner of a company and someone having a direct financial interest in you purchasing one product over another.
@@Sobchak2 True, but his statement is different - it is just a showcase. Listen, watch, make up you mind. Who owns it doesn't matter. Ok, only if in a comparison someone wilfully makes some amp sound bad.
Lee Responded ruclips.net/video/_lRPbEHZ9DE/видео.html
Have you actually send an email to the Victory Amps asking them to disclose the PSCs?
Not really a secret - change your title it’s very much bait and manufactured drama. It’s totally ok to not declare everything in business - it can give you competitive advantage and i think the UK guitar industry needs all the support it can get… you go Lee and company!!!
@KDH everybody already knows Lee responded, and you know what You're an idiot 😂
@@nornicle2fully agree, he's so up his own ass about this he's created something no one else agrees with.
@@davidconnelly Umm... Who are you responding to I don't see anybody in this thread that said that. Corn flakes? Shredded wheat? Ah snowflakes 🙂
The high comedy of this is that RUclips served up an Amderton's advertisement in the middle of watching yiur video.
@tubebobwil And yet we found out Anderton’s are fraudulent.
I just want to express my appreciation for your efforts. Great journalism, very well researched and elegantly presented.
Very kind of thee, I would also donate if I had income
It's pretty wild seeing Lee, an owner of the company, sit by quietly as Mick talks about his potential bias.
Yeah and they are featured heavily on their Channel. I mean I love them I have 4! And two preamps. But Lee should have come clean a long time ago.
Who gives a f**k?
Funnily enough I always thought that Victory was an in-house brand from Andertons, I think I got that idea because of body language and tone when they talked about it, it was like "well, this feels more like an add than usual"
Same here. I always kind of had the feeling, given the tone Lee, Rabea, Rob, and Pete would always take with the amps, and the fact that they were the signature artist for the amps, that Victory was an Andertons house brand. I don't like that Lee wont disclose fully his role in the company, and would play a semantics game to seemingly avoid it, but I do understand Lee not seeing himself as a large enough part of the company to note if he is in fact greatly divorced from the operations of the brand.
Yeah well said, and I agree it crossed my mind too, the way they always bigged it up!
Yep. A rabbit hole not worth jumping into. The time to scour the web for info on the subject would probably be better spent on enriching one's personal life, and the family and friends around them. In the grand scheme of life, it's absolutely meaningless. I wish KDH had music to share. I like music😁
@@patrickkish6662well good news we have someone covering it so we don’t have to do any of the leg work 😂 and I personally do find it interesting and entertaining to watch this stuff. Reminds me they are all trying to make a buck off of us 🤷🏽♂️
@@patrickkish6662 Hi Lee !
I can always trust KDH to give me drama on amps I can't dream to afford
That's why I buy used 😂 got a duchess v4 for $600 on reverb
That was my thought. There are certainly amps like that: Soldano, etc but Victory isn't one of them.
That’s because he’s a little slut for the drama
@@michaelgriffin5304 I feel like in the end
All restaurants will be Taco Bell
All guitars will be Ibanez
All amps will be Synergy
Victory amps are moderately priced new. Used you can find some great deals. I was on the fence between Victory and Friedman. In the end the Friedman did more for me and was the Keeper.
I did not know guitar-based investigative journalism was a thing, but I'm here for it.
Neither did lee... apparently
Im looooving it ahhah@@rainblaze.
Man... damn. You know its gonna be a rough day when KDH is sitting in your office with a question he probably already has the answer to. LMAO
Seriously, if this dude asked me what I did last week he could probably tell me better than I could remember.
I have to disagree with everyone else's comments and I will explain why. This video and its contents is 'MEh Meh and Meh again'. This video for no good reason whatsoever is having a dig at Lee of Andertons, simply to get views and likes for his 'RUclips' channel.
62k views = about $60 dollars? Don't spend it all at once....
Completely pointless video, all that is going on is, (you might have heard of this term?)' 'Marketing'. So what if Lee does not 'disclose', every single company he is involved in. If Mr Andertons was using a company as a cover, to import Columbian finest white powder. You would have a story but this is just Meh, and pointless.
In the Uk for years Jhs, (not Josh the other one based in the uk), had a magazine in music shops that advertised their own gear, and of course, gave it glowing reviews. No one gave two dumps about that, and no one should really give the same about this video and its contents.
@@james1658KAAY, Lee’s burner account. Stop being so butthurt. You’re obviously in the minority here. These are the type of videos that are liked and shared, thus growing the channel. Keep a close eye on KDH’s subscriber count over the next month and get back to me on whether he’s gained or lost followers.
@james1658 . Yup. I've been to companies House and I can't see a link between KDH and Buckfast? Hmmmmm. Suspicious, you decide.
@@james1658 I'm sorry, if this is how you do marketing in the UK then you are breaking the law. This is a story that evolved out of a question that MANY people in the industry and consumers of these products have asked MANY TIMES. That question was simply, "Who owns Victory?". The fact that Andertons came up was not a fabrication for views. It was part of the answer that was hidden underneath our noses.
I'm sure you are a fine person but I can't help but entirely disagree with your sentiment and your point of view.
Timestamps
0:00 Intro
1:12 Victory
2:02 Lee Anderton
4:10 Martin Kidd Interview
6:00 Straight Edge
6:50 Trademarks
7:58 Coincidences
11:36 Lees Response
13:12 The Issue ?
15:26 The Guys At Victory
17:00 A bad thing?
21:50 Lees Response 2
25:56 Conclusion
Yeah you gotta keep going in on these characters son,tear they ass up now
Excellent research and presentation as usual. These are not easy vids to make. Very impressive. Thanks.
I've noticed your appearance of health has been diminishing with each video. It's about the music, and your mental and physical well being. Think about it, KDH. You're not posting videos of yourself playing. Music is about the song. Not the politics of product production. Think about it as you investigate the image in the mirror
he seems to be in a pretty good shape in my opinion .. and I guess his choice, as a musician, is to not only show him play, but to inform us on what's happening in that industry which is living and existing because of us, consumers, who are buying their gears ... sometimes based on lies and false reviews unfortunately ... KDH work is tremendous, extremely valuable and we should thank him for that.
These videos get the views. It's what everyone wants to watch. If you want the music go look up his band W.A.L.K.E.R.
Disclosing brand deals or ownership (no matter how small) must happen when influencers bring product onto their channel. This was drilled into the heads of all influencers ages ago but there still seem to be the remaining few that try to duck and dodge it.
Great video.
What’s weird is that Lee could have gone the exact opposite direction with his disclosures and garnered a lot of interest and respect. “I have access to some of the best ears and fingers in the UK, I’m an expert in guitar products, my team and I have played virtually every guitar amp ever made, yada yada” and made this a selling point, rather than a secret.
Keep up any videos and content you do
Totally Agree
Had he been honest from the start, there would be no problem. Now he has a ten year history of hiding his conflict of interest. His credibility is gone.
You think the other amp manufacturers they stock would have been cool with it?
It could be the other partners wanted his involvement secret on the vids to get a buzz going and he played ball. Maybe a hard one to admit to after ten years.
I think it's probably pretty safe to say that Andertons is involved in any brand that has a Rabea/Danish Pete/Chappers et al signature model.
I’ve always thought of Victory being synonymous with Anderton’s, this video just confirms it. Either way, they’re killer amps and I do like Lee (his public persona at least).
think this blokes a whinger
Hes a bit of an oblivious bellend but i do feel hes a good person. Being forced to grow up fast and take over a family company can do that sometimes.
@@Thatdudeoverthere69420I’m sure we’ve all met a ceo much worse than Mr Lee. He’s a great guy who’s managed to accomplish the impossible task of taking over the family business and bringing it into the modern age
@@Thatdudeoverthere69420 *cough cough* Jeff Kiesel
@@Thatdudeoverthere69420 Yeah I got the vibe that he just didn't mention it and then felt weird bringing it up rather than being malicious ... still makes them very untrustworthy. Stupidity isn't an excuse in cases like this.
I gotta say KDH, When I first started watching your videos a while back I was like "man this guy hates everything". (I am laughing while I write this). But as time has marched on, I realized that you are the hero we need. I love your content keep up the great work.
same!
I was typing my own comment when I noticed this one and you said what I was trying to say in a much better way. So I'll just say "True Dat" 😁
You know, leeches are pretty disgusting little creatures, but they can be useful time to time, heroes for some, parasites for others, so is KDH.
And if there is no new YT drama, just invent your own, right?
Just some toughts for the internet moral police... LOL
This is not moral issue...more breaching laws issue
@@roko650serious point me to the law that has been breached?
The Landlord one really surprised me. As far as I know, they never acknowledged being a part of that, while also liking them very vocally. That sounds very dubious to me unfortunately.
I’ll never forget I once bought a landlord pedal from andertons that turned out to be faulty and I just wanted to return it, not swap for a non faulty unit. The rep actually tried to convince me to swap it as “It works out better for us if we just exchange tone city stuff”.
Which gave me 2 impressions.
1) Respectfully, I don’t give a shit what “works out better for you”, give me my refund 😂 and
2) “Oh, so Landlord pedals are just rebranded tone city circuits”.
Not a slight on Landlord though, I’ve used a lock-in tuner for ages, great little unit.
@@BaBaBaBenny well, any shop would rather give an exchange than a refund.
Dodgy as F
@@BaBaBaBenny Tone City, Landlord, loads of those in-house brands are exactly the same pedals. Just rebranded for their respective retailers.
Same goes for most of the Aliexpress pedals and a lot of the other cheap mini-pedals on the market.
@@lueysixty-six7300 Naturally, I've just never had an employee directly tell me that to my face whilst I was trying to get a refund... O _ O
I've always thought Lee or Rob had their hand in Victory amps in some way after watching a lot of their videos. I was curious about them when I last needed a new amp but went with something else.
KDH is not here to make friends, props mate, excellent work.
Outstanding quality of work. Documented investigation, no personal bias, no drama, no unnecessary shade thrown at Andertons. That's a 10/10 from me.
Honestly think it's his best video yet 11/10
This video is fucking pathetic.
Personally, I felt there was significant shade and drama - I don't have a dog in this fight mind you, but i definitely felt the tone was very provocative.
The way it came across to me was "I'm going to be snappy and condescending for nearly a half hour at Lee Anderton, even tho when I directly asked him he said 'yup I'm part owner'".
The video is called andertons big secret you mug it's blatant drama clickbait bullshit. grow up
@@afaella3 Lee made a bunch of videos promoting Victory's products without disclosing that relationship. That is misleading.
That he came clean when directly asked about it does not change that he misled the public in the first place. Frankly, Lee had no other choice but to disclose when directly asked, as lying about it is a criminal offence.
Pointing out that someone is potentially breaching advertising ethics isn't "shade and drama", it's providing the consumer with important information. This video resulted in Lee admitting something he hadn't made sufficiently clear to customers beforehand.
I don't see why you're running interference on behalf of a business owner who got caught breaching advertising ethics. Lee isn't paying you to do his PR. Do you think businesses shouldn't be required to disclose relevant relationships when promoting products? That's a difficult stance to defend.
Well done. The Martin Kidd interview at the 4:22 mark actually tells a whole bunch when the real story is known. Martin cleverly pivots when he seems to realize that he might accidentally reveal the well-kept ownership secret.
Except that wouldn’t look good if every other video of his was about Victory Amps.
One thing I really like about you KDH, is even when you have dirt on somebody, you don't belittle them for it. You are always straightforward with the facts, and forward about the ethics on why you are doing it, without outright attacking anybody's character. It really allows me to trust your work more as it doesn't seem like a way to mindlessly stroke your ego about being right, but because you actually care about getting to the bottom of these issues.
Keeping business owners responsible and helping to protect consumers. KDH doesn’t need insults and nonsense for that!
What’s the “dirt” here?
@@FlyingCircusAct dirt is a pretty vague word when used like this. In this case I’m just meaning potential drama. But KDH doesn’t make it any worse than it already is by adding any more drama, he respectfully brings to light consumer issues in an incredibly professional way. This is genuine journalism and I was just being a bit hyperbolic for brevity.
@@WeyounSix I appreciate your honesty, extremely rare in todays world. I’m still left wondering where the issue lies, is there pending litigation with this? Something “shady” going on? From what I’ve witnessed, Lee’s fair across the board with amp reviews and the like. Not sue what I’m missing.
@@FlyingCircusActThe issue is that as an influencer you need to be transparent about where your interest lies. We all know he has a vested interest in Andertons and the channel is there to sell products from his shop. No issues there. What we didn’t know is that he is part owner of Victory a brand that he pushes continuously over other amp manufacturers. People watch that and assume it’s unbiased as he sells all of them anyway. Whet he’s not saying is that he also has a vested interest in that brand and it’s market share, therefore it’s not an unbiased opinion but one made as the owner of that company who stands to make money from the sale of Victory no matter where you buy them from.
Watching KDH become the go-to name in down-to-earth guitar reporting has been a real treat! Keep it up mate!
The worst part is private label products like this are common place in the industry; a way music stores can offer lower prices on low end gear by cutting out brands and pulling straight from the distributor. It also helps with offering accessories and products as add-ons in sales to increase margins. Michell, Proline, Gamma, Delta Lab(the pedals), Live Wire, Harbinger are all Guitar Center Brands. Musician's Gear, and Rouge were Musician's Friend. Sam Ash had Micheal Kelly, and Samson. and Mars had a bunch too that I can't remember. This is common and only shady when you hide it.
I have definitely seen Lee in an Andertons video from a few years back mention that he had an involvement in Victory, I remember it as he just mentioned it in passing and my ears pricked up thinking ''well you've never mentioned that before''. Not really a problem but something to bear in mind when they are pushing Victory products.
Really? Can you share the videos? I don't think I've heard him say anything about any involvement with the brand. But I haven't watched every video. But KDH couldn't find anything either.
I mean, other than being friends or helping in development or whatever.
Yeah he had involvement, he would give advice and be asked his opinion on products. He compared speaker cabinets etc. "Involvement" and "part ownership" are quite different though.
@@thebigb3ard exactly. Rabea has involvement (and discloses it). Lee has something else.
@@mrcoatsworth429 Now you're asking... it was just a passing remark in one video, as I recall he was kind of 'off set', hand held camera 'behind the scenes' sort of stuff, pointing out a Victory prototype in the corner of the room, I think a 'work in progress' for a potential signature for Rob or Rabea. What he said wasn't a 'we're working with them' kinda thing, it was definitely something inferring that Andertons had a stake in Victory. As I said, that's why my ears pricked up and since then it's always been in the back of my mind when they feature Victory Amps. It was only a five second bit in a video maybe 3-4 years ago. Good luck finding it!
@@mrbrick5907 Thanks! Well, I'm not about to look for it myself haha Now we know what his involvement is.
But what do you mean by "now you're asking..." At what other time should I have been asking?
As someone who, years ago, quit my job as a daily newspaper writer over a matter concerning integrity, honesty, and what I was and was not allowed to write about something, I appreciate your investigative integrity and tenacity in attempting to get to the bottom of things and then not being afraid to say it regardless of what people will and will not conclude.
I've really nothing against Andertons as a business, however, unlike a lot of people, I've never been much of a fan of their videos; they've always come across as a bit cliquey to me, so it was interesting to find, as a result of your investigative efforts here, that there is apparently something more substantial in terms of ownership and interests to that cliquey feeling than just my personal perception.
And with regards to ASA standards breaches, as well as having been a news writer in the past, I also worked in advertising for a number of years. So I can tell them from a position of some personal experience that they really do need to get on that and correct things not merely as a matter of integrity, but also to avoid some potential fines and other punitive measures, because the ASA does actually have some teeth when it comes to things like that.
Retired newspaper journalist here in the U.S. I agree with your analysis as well.
I don't think any standards are being broken - Lee is an investor in Victory as a private individual, not the store, and the videos are the product of the store (which he happens to own as a separate entity).
Is there a conflict? Yes, but it is hardly a scandalous one - see my comment, this is a niche industry dealing in pretty small money values, so raising capital is very hard and this sort of arrangement is very common.
Let me put it this way - if Lee's involvement in Victory, as one of 9 owners and the primary dealer, is £100k, but his involvement in Andertons where his is the principal is, say, £5million, then I can see why he doesn't really see it as a conflict, and why he always says "those guys at Victory". He doesn't see his minor-to-him financial investment as being a big deal. He also doesn't see much return on that compared to what he sees from, say, Chapman (whose value is only £250k, by the way - did I mention that this is a NICHE industry?).
@@MrLivebynight If you have to hide your ownership of companies you review, then it's obviously a hopelessly dishonest position. The dude proved he has no personal integrity by sticking to keeping his personal ownership role for 10 years under wraps as he tried to give his investment a boost with his "unbiased" rave reviews. That is about as obvious an example as you can have, of a completely biased individual who knows how little credibility glowing reviews of a company from one of it's owners are afforded.
So in other words, he understands his own bias very well and how that appears to consumers, hence decided to hide it, and he can't pretend it was a moment of weakness, since he continued to cover it up as he ran a stealth promotion campaign for them disguised as unbiased reviewer comments, publicly for a decade. It wasn't a decision to lie once, but to hide the truth as ongoing policy, from the intended audience (amp shoppers), to influence their buying behavior towards the only behavior that was going to boost his portfolio of business holdings; for a decade.
He hid the truth as he was later forced to admit and made a pathetic excuse for, to make people believe he wasn't involved, because he wanted his promotions to be mistaken for unbiased reviews from a brand fan with no personal stake in whether people responded by purchasing or not. Does honesty mean nothing to you, that even legal standards aren't low enough; you have to excuse the lies of someone who can't even manage to muster up the personal integrity to stay on the right side of advertising laws?
@@Gregorypeckory Perfect summation of the situation. Clearly Anderton lied by omission in every Video with a Victory amp in it. He must have considered that before the cameras rolled, every time. Chose not to be honest. I think it's pretty serious stuff. The other amp makers featured in those videos should seriously consider their relationship with andertons. The videos have to be treated as biased.
Kinda unrelated to the video, but your story gave me major flashbacks. I used to have a little blog reviewing things from time to time and when I was at uni I got a gig as a content writer for a review site. I wasn’t studying journalism or anything and it didn’t pay much, but given my only other income was stocking freezers at a supermarket twice a week and repairing gameboys to sell on eBay it was very appreciated!
They were also pretty patient with me as I was very green - I had to learn real basics of professional reviews like you can’t say it’s bad, you have to say it’s stronger in other areas or find a positive on the back of a downside, the top 5 shootouts, etc that get more traction and mean you can say x is great for y, a great for b, etc and avoid saying directly ‘this is pants’.
That was all kind of okay, I learnt to play the game - you’re selling ad space and advertisers don’t want any beef, they might even be suppliers of products you’ll be reviewing in a different article, plus if you say everything’s crap people stop giving you stuff, and not a lot of places can afford to buy all their review products and turn a profit. It is what it is - I think most people understand; it’s kinda like the 5 star rule right? If it’s a professional product review or a coffee shop eating on google, the scale doesn’t really go from 0-5, it goes from 4.0-5.0.
But then I ran into one company I just couldn’t review. Every time I reviewed a product it’d get bounced back to me and they were not accepting anything other than glowing reviews. I read reviews other had read for the site and it was all the same and this just went on and on. I’m actually keeping the product field and publication under wraps because this is going back 15 years and I don’t know who owns it now or what the deal is, but yeah it kept bugging me. I’d try and not review the products, and keep getting assigned them. I asked over and over if this is just some kind of paid product placement or a big advertiser or anything I could understand or had encountered before and all I got was weasel words along the lines of it’s not about the brand, it’s about what you wrote… and it was all too fishy. I was at u I do didn’t care too much, but eventually looked into it, and it turned out it was just really invidious. Our publication was owned by this investment capital whatever firm that of course also owned this other company but when I started asking other writers about that it came out that it was actually all about pumping this company for an IPO and all manner of people were heavily invested personally in it. I figured my option at that point was invest myself and drink the cool aid or quit, so I quit. It kinda jaded me to how a lot of stuff works tbh
Watching to see what the secret is.. popcorn at the ready.. the question is who cares who owns it.. I have a jcm800 ….
4 stage it with plate EQ and go 6550. Second to none😂
KDH, you have a very bright future. Smart, young, and driven. We are watching you grow up right in front of us and you're doing great. Never lose sight of your goals. Remain humble and never compromise your own integrity.
I actually had already thought Victory was an Anderton’s house brand but I can’t recall why.
The whole UK gear manufacturing and retail industry is a very small circle
EXACTLY! This kind of weird "i gotcha" shit is not really warranted here. It's so unbelievably small and informal. Hence why Lee refers to them as the guys at Victory. The reason why he talks about Victory that way is because he FEELS that way. Instead of bleating "I OWN THIS BRAND GUYS" (or something far more reasonable) before playing something on one, he shows respect to the guys who DO run Victory's day-to-day shit and apply their awesome knowledge. I assume, at least partially, that the reason why Lee refuses to see himself as equal with them is because of that HUMAN dynamic. KDH, you're too rigid in how you're seeing this. Brand presentation, rigid assumptions about many things without self-reflecting on your own demands. How do you think the guys at Victory who are responsible for the hard work to create the product itself (the focus should be on who makes it in terms of HANDS ON THE PRODUCT) feel about this guy blasting that he is the owner? You need to think more critically KDH. There is nuance to these things. There's a lot more with the whole brand identity thing and I don't want to type up a whole storm about it.
I have to agree.
Still should be open about it
Same here. No surprise for me......
@@JR_Taylor Think more, meaning critically attack your own position and/or try to build up Lee's so you can see more and find the correct conclusion by rocking back and forth between the practices to arrive at a more rounded understanding by settling between the two extremes. I don't think my position is extreme, there are valid reasons to reduce transparency on certain things because as buyers, we don't think in terms that are conducive to logical conclusions. Everyone suffers from this, that's what Lee was trying to say about the pedals being blindfolded. There's nothing secret or shady about this, it's how the consumer mind works
I work for a sheet metal company round the corner from straight edge and we laser cut the badges for the victory amps
This has absolutely become my favorite guitar channel. It's so refreshing to hear calm and articulate news about the industry. It's like a high-gain channel for grownups. No prattle at 100 mph, editing out the pauses and saying "bruh" every 20 seconds. Sweet Jebus, please keep doing what you're doing \m/
I hope someday Lee can own all the companies. Maybe after Lee owns all the companies Dave Grohl can do all the music and the two can control the entire global music scene.
Bahahahahahaaa!! That’s hilarious mate. Lol😂❤
The Best The Best The Best The Best The Best The Best The Best
hahahaha
@richardharrold9736 Tell me about it I'm so sick of his face I can't listen to Foo Fighters anymore.
@richardharrold9736 wait what did dave grohl do lol
I can't believe how many negative comments there are on here. It's super disingenuous to be hawking a product like it's something cool you just discovered and not mentioning it's your own product. People can't see how this is very "I'm a used car salesman and I'm going to steer you towards my biggest commission."?
I've not always agreed with everything you've done on this channel. But, this is genuinely important information that the public should know. I always thought that Andertons fondness for Victory and how often their amps are featured on the channel was simply out of a genuine fondness for the product and wanting to support a fellow British company. It seems that actually, there was an undisclosed commercial interest behind it. People seem to forget that Andertons are an equipment selling business FIRST, not a RUclips channel. Great job bringing this to light!
Who cares?
@@creamwobbly I think it matters because it's a very simple question that someone has gone out of their way to avoid/hide. It's disingenuous, which I find interesting. You're correct about American vs UK disclosure laws, but I don't think that changes the matter of transparency, whether it's legally required or not. Just my two cents.
Never thought it to be a secret with all the videos of them helping with development and promotions, I assumed they had financial involvement.
This is what I thought too. Had never heard of victory until they were on Andertons, so I assumed they were linked through ownership.
Plus, even if they weren’t linked in ownership: they sell the product. Every product they talk about is one they’re selling. In the case of someone whom you already know is trying to sell you something, whether or not they own part of the parent company is…not really informative.
@@NewnodrogbobAs KDH said in the video, this isn't the case if you live outside the UK - an Andertons video could be seen as fair to each amp they compare, and any bias towards Victory in that video could sell you an amp from a local dealer (when you didn't know it was the owner telling you it beats a Vox/Marshall/Fender/whatever)
@@matthewwatt2295 I am in the US. This is a bullshit argument. KDH says in the video that the retailer’s cut of the profit will be “close to” the same for all products. Define “close to.” Unless Lee owns the Lion’s share of Victory and is making huge profits from them, the differences between the deals from each manufacturer will be as significant an introducer of bias as the dividends from his stock. Since I don’t know the ins and outs of those deals, I don’t just blindly follow what the Anderton’s guys say. Not that they generally endorse one product over another anyway.
It’s also worth noting that these aren’t print articles. They’re recording the gear. The viewer/listener is given plenty of data from which to draw their own conclusion. This isn’t just some pitch man telling you that their soap is the best.
This is a big fat nothingburger. Turns out when you get your clicks by being a muckraker, you have to constantly be on the lookout for new muck to rake.
@@Newnodrogbob Honestly, I see where you're coming from, those are some good points. I think this video has done its 'job' by getting Lee to publicise the fact he partially owns Victory amps so people know that when he talks about them. I'm not a huge fan of the 'drama' angle from the title/thumbnail either.
Merci!
Thank you!
Just as an FYI. GAP isn’t Andertons. It’s a distribution company owned and run by the owners of Guitarguitar, Andertons and PMT (GAP is an acronym of their companies) so that they could have more buying power on certain products. They realised they could make more margin on cheaper products instead of going through companies like Stagg. Companies like Eastcoast and TourTech exist only for this purpose. You’ll notice only these three companies sell these brands.
Great investigating though.
Hey KDH. The following brands are legally affiliated with either Lee or Andertons. Ive also included the gross profit margins on products when sold via Andertons.
Tone City Pedals - 70-80%
Landlord FX Pedals - 70-80%
Chapman Guitars - 35-45%
Burns Guitars - 30-40%
Tourtech - 50-90%
Stagg - 50-80%
Faith Guitars - 30-45%
Eastcoast Guitars - 45-55%
Victory Amps - 35-50%
There are probably more, but this is what can be remembered. Source- Ex Andertons employee.
Interesting list! Perhaps some involvement in Thorpy pedals as well?
I would have been surprised if Tone City wasn’t on the list or if someone listed it.
@@JamesMears76 he uses ThorpyFx to help design some Victory pedals (but only because Dan Coggins is a ThorpyFX employee, not because Adrian has any talent whatsoever). Otherwise he'd employ Coggins directly and not deal with the secretly most hated man in FX pedals.
@@ghalsor the signature Rabea and Danish Pete signature pedals, sold for £44.99 were purchased by Andertons for £8.31 a unit. If you bought both, you got a "free" power supply and daisy chain. The plug was £1.10, the daisy chain was £0.51 (normally retailing at £9.99 and £4.99 respectively). So you'd pay £89.98 for £18.23 worth of product. That applies to any and all Tone City mini-pedal deal.
@@JamesMears76 unfortunately not that I can remember. But it probably shows why Lee was incentivised to use Thorpy for Victory.
You just got rewarded with a new subscriber..!! The way you bite into your research is admirable and very much appreciated.
I love it when KDH drops one of these videos. He's exposed a lot of stuff about the guitar world and anyone with a hint of curiosity could watch these and walk away more informed.
he does it in such an elegant way.
Yeah but none of it really matters and imo comes off as douchey
he took a LOT of flak from chapman's fans, and has come around to it so full circle that he continue his reporting on the issue, and even met rob and namm
@@7DavesToDieIt absolutely matters. We should know that Lee, who owns a giant channel and music store, partially owns Victory. If Anderson's didn't stock them, no. But they do and he does videos on them regularly.
He’s an utter moron. Something wrong with him.
Some time ago I‘ve tried to look up the exact same thing, but stopped at the official trade mark database - I couldn’t draw the link from there. Congratulations, well done!
Well done. "KDH" and "Wings of Pegasus" are proving to be formidable investigative channels that are able to bring unpleasant truths to light.
I guess I always just assumed Victory was an Andertons thing based on how often their amps appeared in Andertons videos and how the aesthetics looked in line with Andertons aesthetics.
I think it's kind of weird that Lee didn't just say he owns a major/minor stake in Victory for disclosure. He's usually pretty good about disclosing that. I actually had assumed Victory was related to Andertons in some way for years until the Tone Talk episode... which isn't great in light of this video. I mean, Rabea, Rob, and Pete all ended up with signature amps and I think those were all of the big guitar hosts.
These videos are excellent btw, you have a real knack for this kind of stuff, great work.
I’d always assumed Anderton’s owned at least a part of it, a bit like it has done (and disclosed) with Eastcoast.
Everyone knew.
KDH just trying to divert from the Peavey videos he never retracted.
@@scott6588why would he want to divert from Peavy video?
@@scott6588literally a video of Andertons holding it from people right in front of you… regardless of wether (you thought) you knew or not, they held that info quite clearly lol, you’re missing the point
@@jackflynn-oakley1937 nope.... literally a video subtracting the times lee clearly insinuates bias towards victory amps.
Everybody knew.
Just like the Peavey videos, it's part of the information, minus the parts that debunk the narrative.
Agree. It's pretty much square in your face they are affiliated. Most folks looking at a Victory amp can probably surmise this.
When I saw the signature amplifiers I assumed Lee Anderton was involved with Victory.
Absolutely it’s not a long shot to arrive at that conclusion
Same
I mean, I guess it was dubious. But, as KDH points out, the law is very clear and communication on such matters has to be crystal clear.
Even if the assumption is an obvious one to make, you still have to disclose such things.
I absolutely didnt think that.
I just thought that Victory is a young team of guys that is heavily betting on the youtube game with abdertons because they are just friends
Since Victory amps started to frequently appear in Anderton's videos I just naturally assumed that it was a house brand. Nevertheless I wouldn't have guessed the actual complexety behind it all and KDH once again delivers in clearing things up!
Me too, I've never heard of them until I kept seeing them on Andertons videos
I'd watch a Lee Anderton masterclass on marketing.
It would be a short masterclass.
He just got on RUclips and ran with it .
@richardharrold9736 ehh, I'd argue the "without busting the bank" series and Rabea Massaad's playing in those is what put them on the map in terms of youtube views.
@@mikel5163Chapman too, to be fair.
This video was again a complete treat! I love these videos and appreciate the work put into it.
I have nothing against Lee, seems like a good guy and I think he's a good businessman that at least tries to do mostly the right thing. At least compared to MANY others.
I did hear a few years ago while working for PMT that Victory was partially owned by Anderton’s/Chapman and that was why we couldn’t stock them. But honestly I get it because now they’re a great brand where as before they were very close to collapse on a number of occasions. I also just assumed it was mentioned by them that this was the case but I guess I just filled the gaps based on what I knew from work
Very fair comments and information from KDH here. Chapper's probably watched this and thought 'Whew, thats a relief, I got off lightly... glad he didn't go after me this time around'. 😬
You would be amazed at how many brands Guitar Center owns and has their employees push over established brands.
Former GC employee here. GC never has to tell its employees to sell more of the house brands, all they have to do is tell the commissioned sales staff how much more profit is built into those products. Fwiw, they never told any of us to be opaque about what brands were owned by GC.
That would be helpful for the people in the US for sure. GC is everywhere.
@@russellzauner The US leans a lot more on the side of business than the consumer, unfortunately.
I wonder which brands Guitar Center owns?
gc doesnt kep their brands secret.
Great video. I really like the Andertons channel and their content and I'm surprised that this was not disclosed straight up, as I do recall some of the videos with disclaimers related to other brands. Based on this, I would expect them to at least put out a short video owning up for transparency's sake.
When they did a Danish Pete amp it is pretty obvious who's behind it. We'va all known for years. I never knew about the regulations breach though. CLASSIC KDH! Keep it up!!
@richardharrold9736 and he's sucked Lee Andertons dick an awful lot.
The Landlord doesn't have to visit the effects pedals in order to collect the dividends. Given the prominence of Victory in the videos it did feel very interwoven. Wouldn't be surprised if Lee was more involved with the other brands like Tone City
Great video! You really do your homework and don't just go for drama. You are becoming Guitarzilla (which is meant as a compliment, in case you are not a fan of him 😁). Keep at it.
I will watch Lee's response in a bit, but I imagine he appreciates what you do as well even if you call him out like this.
Lee is a slippery one. It makes watching any new gear review mighty tough to look at without doubting eyes.
Andertons should really pass the reviews of Lee owned or partially owned items to someone else.
Transparency is a valued trait these days
What's odd to me is that Lee generally does disclose ownership (like you showed). It makes you wonder why he doesn't with Victory.
I think it's likely exactly what Lee said, that with the other brands he is an active member and on the board or equivalent, with Victory he is, assumably, just an investor.
@@alittlebitgoneNo, being a partner is exactly (well, not exactly exactly, but you know what I mean) the same as being on the board of a company.
@@alittlebitgoneBaloney. 10 years of pushing VA w/o once mentioning a financial interest. Even an accidental mentioning … no, he intentionally misled people by never saying anything while acting like the reviews were unbiased.
@@carpediem4413 I don't think it's as cynical as everyone's making out. Knowing Lee, I would have thought it's less shrewd money grabbing, and more likely just not wanting to take credit for the work of others, though I do understand that in this cancel culture we live in people will prefer to jump on the bandwagon and demand his head on a plate. Are Victory amps rubbish? Anyone I know who has a Victory product or has owned one loves them. So maybe he is biased, or maybe his bias is based on believing in a well made product that he invested in once. Nobody really knows how much money Lee Anderton does or doesn't receive for his investment anyway. I don't think there's a story here, personally. If you're basing your £2k amp purchase on RUclips reviews without going and trying the equipment out, Anderson's or not, then you might have bigger problems.
@@jasonleaman. if it's just Lee not wanting to take credit, then he could publicly state that he was an initial investor in the company but now no longer has any business ties. Easy enough and wouldn't harm any reputations. But he won't say that, will he?
So many time your video keep me on the edge of my seat watching!! Your an accomplished story teller! Usually I start watching them just wanting to space out for bit and end up with dry eyes because I forget to blink.
It's called a "lie of omission". It's clearly purposeful to prevent perceived bias. Thanks P.I KDH! 😁
But is it illegal? 🤔
@@Ebbandflow805 It certainly can be. It depends on the motive, consequences,and the "damage" it can and could cause (and how many lawyers your company has) It's always illegal morally. At least in my definition of morality.
I love how this channel became some sort of content cop for other artists in the industry, good video! 🎉
Fellow Irishman and RUclipsr here. Been watching your videos for a while now and have to say, dude…For me, this has been the most enjoyable one yet. Superb research, professional standpoint and presentation (not mean spirited in any way, shape or form), and killer points made throughout the duration. Keep doing what you’re doing! ❤🤘
Wow, I’m impressed! Thank you for not giving up on this and doing all the legwork. This has been on more minds than just yours. I do hope Lee follows up with this and admits, at least the smallest of wrongdoing and purposely hiding this. I really hope he does. Thanks again and thanks for not making it any shorter. When it comes to something like this, we want at all.
I like a good detective story:-)
Totally speculative but Andertons always gave me that shady salesman vibe, even knowing nothing about it. It's just a hunch I get from their reps
100%
Slimy could be a better word.
Deffo
That's kind of the nature of sales/advertising though. All of them are on the shade end of the spectrum :D
@richardharrold9736holy shit what
Fantastic work, man! Thanks for shedding some light on this. Lack of transparency where transparency is due is always an issue and needs called out.
I've watched a lot of Anderton's videos for guitar/gear reviews, so naturally it peaked my curiosity when I came across this video. And while it doesnt appear that there's an earth shattering conspiracy regarding Anderton's that we all should be concerned about, and it doesn't bother me in the least if someone's partnership with a company is 100% transparent, what I will say is that your thoroughness in which you laid everything out (no doubt as a result of a lot of research) was appreciated, and the articulation in which you spoke was commendable. Other than that, to each their own as to what intrigues you and the topics you decide to talk about, but as for anyone at Anderton's, including the gentleman you specifically referred to, I feel they do an overwhelming amount of good for all of us thru their videos that would easily offset any issues such as the ones you mention in this video. They appear to be genuinely good guys from everything I've seen.
Wow, amazing research and video as always man. These conflicts of interest are highly problematic. Superb effort in bringing this to light 🤘
Brilliant video, good work. Lee was just once FB earlier announcing an amp giveaway with a big thanks to the guys at Victory.
I think the question would be, What companies does Lee Anderton have interest and investment in?
Nothing wrong with it, but would be nice to see the list
Yeah, Lee's lack of disclosure is weird
b/c no one would have cared. He seems like a righteous dude and he's handled this WAY better than a lot of YT celebs so I'm happy to still be able to rock with Anderton's but keep it above board moving forward, yeah?
Well, I think he should still publicly disclose this, on their own channel in video form.
@@mrcoatsworth429 agreed
@@flashpointnova I have no problem with Lee, I really enjoy the videos and especially his dynamic with all the other team members. It is simply weird that he seems to actively avoid talking about his ownership of the brand. Just seems fishy, even if it may not be intentional.
I’m pretty sure I’ve heard Lee mention he was involved with Victory before this video…
@@louissanderson719 Involved as in being friends and somehow working together with them sure. Owning them? Absolutely not. And that's important, in my opinion, for the reasons mentioned in the video.
I tend to take videos from Andertons (and most guitar retailers) with a grain of salt because they are all trying to sell gear, so they're never going to be critical of what they're showing, even when they should be. It's almost-but not quite-like a conflict of interest... but this is a whole new version of that because they're hiding their interest in selling a certain brand and that is definitely a conflict
I don't know why people don't understand this. Anderton's is a music store. What kind of videos is a music store going to make? It seems like this is going over people's heads. Very strange.
man, you should write dissertions on stuff. your research path is very transparent and understandable. all question that pop up in my head, you answer right after.. and you answer even more things i didn't think about at that moment and that is.. so satisfying for my pseudo-autistic brain.
also, the instrument wall is really very symmetrical and well lit. lit, i say.
and man, that fretless bass.
Ownership disclosure is an absolute must for Review videos. Really surprised at learning about this. It is great that he owns these brands but should definitely have stated that, I have bought a couple of Victory products based on their videos.
Any good ?
In the case of andertons where every video is an advertisement for a product they are trying to sell it is not as bad (cause you know those aren't really reviews, they will never be anything but positive), assuming they are not making comparisons. But yeah generally best to always disclose.
@@JoePesos I disagree. They oftentimes do give honest opinions. And they do a lot of shootouts, where there are winners and losers. When shooting out different amps, it really doesn't matter to the seller whether the buyer choses brand X or Y. But it does matter when the seller gains more from selling brand Z, because they're the owner. In that case, the seller is clearly biased, because it's in their interest that brand Z wins the shootouts and sells better.
@@mrcoatsworth429 Listen again to those shootout videos you mentioned. There is never a negative word left about anything, it's entertaining to listen to those creative phrases. A product is never bad just "for a different kind of player" and everything "sounds good man, doesn't it?" 🙂
@@thomasbruggemann5269 I didn't mean that they often say negative things. But in the latest delay shootout, they're pretty negative towards the MXR carbon copy. Honest opinion. And that way, they're sure to steer at least a few people away from that product.
In the same way they can steer people away from, say, a blackstar amp and towards a Victory. Especially if it's not a blindfold video. The difference is that Lee is making more money if people buy a Victory.
Oh, and in the Orange Super Crush video, Pete says "it doesn't sound nice." Not relevant to the Victory thing, but just shows they don't always say good things.
Thanks for the great work. The only thing I would say is assuming there is no bias to one brand or another because you don't have a stake in it is also a misconception. Even when you don't own the brands that you sell, profits or incentives can be drastically different among brands. Some brands might have 30% profit, others 40%. Some can give incentives like free trips or free merchandise, etc. In summary, always take anything that you see online with a grain of salt.
I'm glad you said this. Anyone who has worked in sales knows that this constantly happens
Apply the patterns thing fully then? Lee has multiple connections to several companies and is very open and pro active about stating his involvement. Therefore its is a safe assumption to make that the reasons Lee has for not shouting Victory involvement from the roof tops are not nefarious. I think his response is very consistent and says he basically helped a friend out at the start and since then has gotten a much more passive role , which I suspect does not exceed a small dividend. Also maybe its a matter of respect for Martyn.
Cornford amps were a highly respected brand, and maybe Lee holds Martyn as a figure that should be respected and maybe felt the world did not need to know the details of his involvement, partly because what he claims is likely true and is the dynamic described, and maybe there is deeper stuff. Maybe he is also saving face for his friend a little and allowing Martyn to rebirth himself and his amp career and receive the shine he feels he deserves? Maybe Lee does not wish to upstage his friend?
Honestly I dont think you have "uncovered" anything other than what most of the guitar world assumed. In this instance, whilst I get that you are talking abut a principle you feel has been crossed, I think this is an exception to the rule moment and you have basically looked for the sinister where there is nothing of the sort. Lee's other company involvements are enough to indicate that, like you yourself said..."we are looking for patterns" so don't ignore the most obvious pattern just so it fits you narrative? (I don't think you did this consciously, but I do think your motivation is content)
Looking forward to a KDH Victory signature amp 🇮🇪
I see a lot of people (or at least a few) commenting that they always assumed he was part of Victory. I can safely say that thought never crossed my mind. Not once. I've always found the Andertons YT-channel to be good fun as well as trustworthy. I've always understood that at the end of the day, running a youtube channel had to make sense for them financially, so of course there had to be some element of sales in it. I have always felt that that part was fairly obvious. I remember seeing the Burns video and being pleased that he disclosed his involvement. Same with the Chapman stuff. Builds trust, makes you able to account for any bias.
Honestly, I'm pretty disappointed to see that for whatever reason the Victory involvement was kept a secret. And I'd argue intentionally so, given the clip where both Mick Taylor and Rob Chapman disclose their relationship with the company. There's no way he didn't make an active choice to not say anything at that point.
It's a shame. I really like their channel. I don't think I'll stop watching their stuff - overall I still feel they are pretty fun and honest people, but I can't say I won't be wondering what they aren't telling me the next time I tune in to one of their videos.
They don't make sales to support the RUclips channel, they do the RUclips channel to sell you stuff!
I would replace “honest” with “creative at not saying anything negative about any product ever”. It actually makes even more fun to watch, looking out for exactly those phrases
Mick Taylor has his fingers in a lot of pies too, which is fair enough. However I stopped watching the Pedal Show when I realised they were just constantly plugging products and tbh I don’t regard either of them as experts anyway, just enthusiasts with strong opinions, giving the impression they are experts. JHS, Vertex and Wampler channels is where I’d go for expertise.
@@glenh2752I met D & M in Minnesota once and thought they were arrogant aholes. Pretty disappointing that many of these guys have a great “friendly” personality on camera and you find out they are not at all what they portray. Sounds like LA is a bit of a shrewd operator and not the open/honest guy he has built his YT following on.
@@S-T-E-V-Egosh! No way!!! Jeeeez……..
Go in full Sherlock Holmes lol, how that statement fits this topic another great show…. Keep on rocking…. i’ll stick to my two Marshall super lead 100 1971 with the rare three-quarter cabinets that keeps me friendly with the local police and puts cracks in my walls , now how this is how this Irishman who lives in New Jersey by way of Belfast rocks… Great show as usual keep on rock and Broski’s
You are the guitar industry sleuth. I think you've found a RUclips niche. This is new territory. Please keep it up. And, I look forward to a follow-up.
He's a dolt. Worse than that, a boring dolt.
I'm still too new to guitar to even think about an amp bigger than my practice amp or an amp sim, let alone learn about them, but let me tell you i was 100% invested in this bit of sleuthing. Good work.
For some reason I already knew Victory was Anderton. Not sure what made it obvious anymore, but it was clear to me for some time.
When all the Chapman controversy happened, which you were instrumental in, (pun intended) I realised there was some shady things going on at Andertons.
I watched less of their videos, and valued less of their opinions.
Now I know they cannot be trusted in the way we all thought. The conflict of interest is a powerful motivator for such a huge company.
You are a smart guy, and have brought light to the dark swamp of RUclips advertising that we all wade through on a day to day basis.
Thank you KDH.
Years ago, Rob and Lee did a video comparing the Orange Dark Terror and the Mesa Mini Rectifier. At the time, they were literally the exact two amps I was deciding between. They said the Orange was half the price and twice as good, and got way better tones out of it. I ended up trying both and bought the orange. I still love it to this day, some 15 years later, and don’t regret the purchase at all (though I’ve since bought a mesa mini head, too). However when I later found out about Robs relationship w Orange, I was a bit peeved thinking back on that video which, at the time, I viewed as a helpful resource, as something far more dishonest
I live in Massachusetts USA , I'm so used to our politicians That I almost missed the point LOL! Funny thing , I chose a Victory amp , Partly due to Andertons likes and use of Victory amps etc.. Everyone over here knows very little about Victory amps , Everyone here thinks Kieth Richards has been using Victory amps his whole career . I'm embarrassed to admit I didn't know any better.
I started learning guitar during Lockdown and found the Anderton's videos fed my growing love of playing badly and geeking out on guitar gear - it helped keeping me going. I learned all about multi fx and pedal lore - stuff I probably wouldn't have discovered otherwise. I bought a heavily discounted Victory valve amp through Andertons and learned how to play it using a reactive load box, without getting evicted for noise nuisance. Lee seems to be trying to produce British made products, which I applaud to the roof tops. We used to make stuff in this country - bless him. I see exactly what KDH is saying - and kudos to him for all his hard work and dogged research. However speaking personally, I don't feel in any way disadvantaged by watching the Andertons videos. Long may Lee/Chapman's/Andertons continue and prosper making stuff in Britain. I'm a rubbish player with sausage fingers and a tin ear, but I love my Victory Amp. :) - I bought a Landlord 'lock in' pedal which I'm less than keen on personally but next week I'm hoping to snag a Les Paul at a knockdown price in Andertons sale.
People like you really don't deserve the advertising law's protection, but it does apply to everyone, even the ignorant.
You're every brands wet dream. Buys a products and starts defending them because you feel a connection to them because they took some of your money (and in this case while not disclosing ownership of the product)
@@RAAZR-yeah it’s pretty sad. People need to realize they are not the things they buy.
@@RAAZR- Oh, isn't he adorable! Yeah, maybe you need to get out a bit more, pal. I didn't say/do any of that. Gotta love trolls. Who else did you straw man today? 😂🤣😅
@@wootks - who said any of that, floss? You need to stop licking windows, it ain't good for yas 😆🤣😂
great vide once again , so glad someone out there doing some due diligence on behalf of guitarists
If you buy shares in any publicly listed company you become a co-owner. Does that make you part of their operations ? Same same if you're part of a consortium of investors for a private company, no ?
This is great work. Really really well done and the whole guitar community benefits from this stuff.
1) for the sake of integrity and transparency he should've disclosed ownership b) also it's the law. If he is set to make more money out of certain products demonstrated on Andertons TV, we need to know.
Honestly, it doesnt even matter. Theyre giving you a demo video on the product, people like what they hear, they buy it. They dont like what they hear, they move on.
Theres countless of videos on so many different amps and guitars people have interest in from looking on GC, SW, Zz, Anderton or anywhere on the internet like on tiktoks or instagram reels.
Lets be real. You just sound petty and envious really.
thanks for some great investigative journalism! the guitar world is full of really entertaining influencers that are rarely critical of the products and companies that they cover. the work you've done in this video, and several others you've produced, is immensely refreshing.
I know Anderson’s and have watched a lot of their victory amp reviews. I’ve always wanted a victory amp so have read a lot of reviews and researched them a lot. I had no idea Lee owned the company. The owner was demonstrating an amp form a company he owned and I had no idea. That doesn’t sit right.
Your like the Pet Detective for Guitars, Amps and Skull Doggery - Good Job - love the details you dug up !
At the very least I think RUclips should force Lee (or others in similar situations) to disclose the video's he is doing as "sponsored" if they own any part of the product or products in the video.
It's flagrant abuse of the RUclips advertising rules. All videos featuring any brands in which Lee Andertons or Andertons has a stake should be flagged as adverts - because that's what they are. You can't objectively review something you have a financial interest in.
US viewer here that Really enjoys your videos. Thorough and evenhanded. Not in a million years would I have predicted I'd find the intrigue of the UK music gear scene so compelling! Well done, KDH
Pretty much thought everyone knew that Andertons had an interest. Also thought it was pretty much accepted that their channel was about selling stuff. So why the surprise.
Because a witch hunt brings clicks! What a useless c__t
Congratulations on your Sherlock-Holmes-Mode investigative capabilities. I watched the whole thing although i'll probably never buy from Andertons because of taxes but i like their videos. I think it's smart to own as many brands as possible at least in part because that's what grocery discounters do and it seems to be very profitable. You could say he learned from the best.
Excellent work, @kdh. I’d done a little digging when the Burns news was announced and saw the link to the owners of the other retailers cited by another reply post on this video. The sheer volume of influencer marketing on RUclips makes it an unclearable minefield, and almost solely the reason why I’ve moved to buying from unconnected independent shops and individual sellers on Reverb. How much clearer the water would be without all the BS, eh? Yours, a former journalist who applauds your work.
I think that if Lee wanted to keep his part of victory’s ownership a secret then he would’ve made his other brands a secret also in order to make better sales. But that’s not the case, for the most part I think what he said was true, in that he really doesn’t feel like an owner because he doesn’t really have a influence in business decisions he was just sort of an investor early on that help victory get off the ground. I don’t know Lee personally but I don’t think him not disclosing his position with victory was meant with any financial gain intentions. But I guess it may have turned out that way, but that’s just my interpretation of it as an American because in America we’re already pretty skeptical and aware that brands that are pushed heavily by a company are probably those which they receive more profits from and work closely with.
I’ve always considered Andertons videos as showcase rather than review, they sell the products and are thus by definition not “independent reviews”. They probably should disclose any involvement, but its not something that bothers me. Having Lee have a statement at the start of every PRS video saying “I am friends with the owner and he once gave me and some of my staff members a free guitar” will be annoying.
Besides my own comment THIS nails it for me, too. Cheers!
Your free to make up your own mind, but there is a world of difference between someone being given a gift from the owner of a company and someone having a direct financial interest in you purchasing one product over another.
Try “I am a co-owner of this company whose amp I am about to compare against other amps”
I am sure you can see the difference between “they send me a guitar for free” and “I co-own the company I compare vs. other amp makers”.
@@Sobchak2 True, but his statement is different - it is just a showcase. Listen, watch, make up you mind. Who owns it doesn't matter. Ok, only if in a comparison someone wilfully makes some amp sound bad.