Finally. Someone who knows what they are talking about. Empire Strikes Back is great but severely overrated and that the true weakest of the original trilogy.
I saw Return of the Jedi when it originally came out in theaters, and I've never had a problem with the Ewoks, and I don't understand why so many people rejected them. I cried when they were fighting the Stormtroopers, and one of them died.
Just look at Wicket trying to throw stones against storm troopers and hitting himself. Then look at Jar Jar fighting against battle droids. Then compare both.
Did you know the word Ewok was never used in the movie? The root problem is that RotJ was a 90 minute commercial that people paid to watch. The other two were movies.
When I was a child I loved the battle on Endor. The speeder bikes the ATST's the teddy bears. The Forrest aesthetic the treehouse village. It was all really engaging at the time. As an adult it's the least interesting part and I can't get back to the childhood feelings I had. I think some aspects hit different for different age groups. I wonder if I was a child today if the Endor scenes would still be impactful for me.
It's an interesting question. I sometimes wonder if what I look back on in my childhood as being too much and too silly maybe today with modern kids movies like Despicable Me and Inside Out might make kids think it's too slow or maybe not enough.
@@Fizz.mp4My friend's 13 year old son had watched all three trilogies and the stand-alones as an elementary schooler. So, not that long ago. Yet, his favorites were the two Ewok movies. Granted, that's not a great sample size. However, Ewoks have a timeless tactile quality that's missing in modern animated characters. In other words, they look real. Look at the massive popularity of Grogu. There's something about a high end puppet or a high quality bear suit that speaks to the child in all of us. Including the child inside literal children.
I tuned out of star wars when jedi dropped, I was 13 and it seemed like a kids film to me then, now I'm 54 and I have a star wars room in my house and love everything about it
Same thing happened with me after Attack of the Clones. I was 17 and thought it was boring, and the romance, horrid. I let the hate take over though. Never again!
@@kaygee2121well to be fair the romance in the prequels was a politician trying to have a romance with the little knight she's groomed from childhood, and it's all his first time ofc it's awkward and weird and creepy
I'm at a loss how that could happen to you in just 6 years. I'm only a year older than you. I saw Star Wars in the theater with my sister and dad when I was 8 and I was never the same. Granted, ESB and ROTJ were not as revolutionary to me, but how could they be? As they say, you always remember your first time. Yet those sequels were still miles ahead of the sci-fi movies coming out at that time like Tron and Last Starfighter.
@malapertfourohfour2112 She didn't groom him. Anakin was the aggressor. She bought into his weak game hook line and sinker. He came home talking about how he killed an entire tribe of Tusken Raiders, and she was like, "You need to be more patient and not let your ego disrupt your personal growth." Like she's used to boyfriends who dabble in mass killing.
It's always been my favorite STAR WARS film, and possibly my favorite film of all time of any kind. Nothing is ever perfect, but if you go looking for problems, you'll surely find them.
Same. It was the climax of the og trilogy that the rest built up to, to me. The throne room scenes and all the tension around it were peak star wars epicness.
@@MikeSchmidt969 Well then perhaps he shouldn't use audio-to-text, but still, even the audio should capture HEAR if he said it right. The change was rather fitting to me. It made the moment feel more whole because silent Vader just felt off to me. Plus it matches how Episode III ended like a full circle moment. What was a line of despair was now redemption. It works.
@@devontehuntley6274 All of that is obvious in Vader's death scene when he asks Luke to remove his helmet. Saying no adds nothing that wasn't there already. And I'm pretty sure anyone can use whatever method of entering text that they choose. Your snark is needed less than Vader's no.
I would agree with that. I only notice my problems with the film when I think about the films that came after. if it was just the original trilogy and nothing else I don't think I'd have nearly as many problems
@@jasonfischer8946was that the group viewing they did commentary for Jedi? That one had me in stitches constantly. Just before the infamous added “noooooo” “I have no idea what Vader is thinking here, if only he could say something so we’d know what was going through his mind!”
The biggest problem is Lucas shoe-horning Leia as Luke's sister. It adds nothing but problems, and is obviously not the original idea for the "other Skywalker".
Hipsters who didn't see ROTJ in theaters in the Summer of 1983 are back to bash this GenX classic, the only genuinely *80s* Star Wars flick. And as usual the hipsters are the *assassins of cool* Dude, the "problem" began in 1997 with the Special Editions. Pre-1996 is the real thing, movies, books, comics, tabletop RPG, all of it was great. From the 1976 comic con to 1996 is the only era of original SW.
This. 1000 times this. There was nothing "wrong" with the original trilogy. ROTJ may have Jabba's dance club and the ewoks, but that is a far cry from Jar Jar, or space's version of CSPAN, or what amounted to the whiniest pre-Vader on record. Meanwhile, everything Lucas did for the special editions was just more icing on an already perfect cake. Who needed a bigger death star explosion? Who needed more stormtroopers in the hallway when one bumping his head on the door was enough? Who needed the beautiful ship models replaced with CGI for absolutely no reason? It was like polishing a gold medal so much the silver came through. People today judging anything from the first trilogy are already watching an inferior product when using the Special Editions as their example. Go find 4K77 and get yourself a personal (don't sell it) copy of the original films and see them in their true beauty. And try to imagine that absolutely nothing like it came before it, because that was the reality.
@@MikeSchmidt969 Well said, dude!! All killer points! And, yes, get copies of 4K77, 4K83 and Harmy's Despecialized Editions (he just dropped a BEAUTIFUL update to ROTJ in version 3.1).
@@RadRat1978 How is Empire not genuinely 80s? It was released in 1980. I'd argue that Empire was the pacesetter for 80s genre filmmaking. Nevertheless, there is something about ROTJ that seems more 80s than Empire, and I've never been able to pinpoint exactly why that is. It definitely looks more like a Spielberg production. Everything is brighter than in the first two. Even Vader looks glossy. Still, I don't know if that's all there is to it. I agree the "problems" did begin with Jedi. However, I believe Lucas handled them to the best of his abilities while under inconceivable pressure at the time. All things considered, we got about the best ROTJ that Lucas was capable of delivering. I saw ROTJ on opening night and loved it! But even as an 11 year old I thought the Endor scenes looked like a TV movie. And that the second Death Star (despite how cool it looked in its under construction stage) demonstrated a lack of new ideas. As for the Ewoks, I loved them then and I'm still down with them today. The original era of SW ended with the publication of Heir To The Empire. Indeed, that was the birth of the "Fandom Menace."
@@mperezmcfinn2511 Because principle photography on Empire wrapped in March of 1979; more than a year before release. It is 100% a 70s film imo, a lot of films from the year 1980 feel the same (see: The Shining). I've never understood the criticism of the Second Death Star. It was the "ultimate weapon" so why wouldn't they build another? This time bigger and without weaknesses? If you invented a nuke and the enemy destroyed it, wouldn't you hurry to build another?? With a Death Star who could ever oppose the Emperor? To me, E.T. in 1982 was sorta the first "80s movie" along with Poltergeist. It could be argued that Raiders of the Lost Ark was the first (?) I think you're correct about the lighting and color of ROTJ (along with its sentimental and optimistic energy) that makes it so iconic of the 1980s.
@@RadRat1978Empire has a certain 70s sheen to it that's more akin to something like The Black Hole or Buck Rogers than Jedi. It's the pacing that makes it feel more conventionally 80s. Whatever was left of 70s style "slow burn" in adventure movies was extinguished by Raiders exactly one year later. That's a good point. And I understood that when I got older. I think that criticism is rooted in the unrealistic expectations set by Empire. After that, every next Star Wars movie had to raise the stakes. Jedi did that to some degree by showing the power of the Emperor. However, the second Death Star was just the first Death Star but more of it. At the very least it should have had a different design. Still, just because it's the ultimate weapon doesn't mean that it poses the ultimate threat. There were other ways to raise the stakes. But considering Lucas wanted to wrap it up, that was probably the most convenient option. A third movie with another cliffhanger might have been too much for mainstream audiences at the time.
"Refinement and defining of personal taste" is the most succinct way I have ever heard someone articulate what fascinates me as both a consumer and producer of art. Thank you for putting that into words for me, you've hit the nail on the head with that as you also completely mimic my own opinions I've always wanted to express about this franchise. SW77 and Empire ARE Star Wars, everything else is a take on it and I enjoy bits and bobs of all the takes but none like those two. I feel "seen" for probably the first time in the world of online pop culture takes, ya know? You've got a new subscriber and repeat viewer. Thank you SO MUCH for this video.
Even as a child, I remember just waiting for it to cut back to scenes in the throne room. Because we’ve seen pilots attack the Death Star before and honestly the Ewok battle was never my favourite part of the movie.
@@Fizz.mp4 I’m sort of thankful of the technological limitations of the times that movie was made though. Otherwise there’d be like fifty lightsabers. The emperor would have one and so would Yoda and they’d be jumping, spinning and flipping in the air. A lightsaber is as cool like slow-motion or an explosion is, the more of them there are, the less special and exciting they become.
Oh god if Lucas could have made all three of those films a bloated nightmare of lightsabers and starships I fully believe he would've. it was a perfect storm of time, technology, control, and people that made the original trilogy and if even one piece of that needle was shifted the movies would have been completely different.
@@Fizz.mp4 yes ,, as Aliens & 2001:a space odyssey showed .., we were in a post dystopia,, ships are lived in , police state galaxy ,,. like any 1977/ 1980/ 1983 Bubblegum starwrs card collector,,, except just 1 yoda in his bed ,oh cried for ages ,,we knew what key parts to expect ,, space castle dungeon neon pub service station,,lol.. a post Nixon ~Apocalypse Now movie alway has air/space attack,, as well as flanking mellichia the secret rebel spies as cleaners of the death star , we knew the ewok ground assaul, i cry 7 times still to all those scenes now at 60.. the A~wing colliding with the star destroyer ,, han& liea caught ,, luke down low, scared ,hidden,,, so many emotions with minemilist scenes...... then C3PO R2D2 Asurrender .. but then the orchestral battle music begins,many tears of joy ,but sadness as Annaki feels emotions ,, there ae so many times when i can watch luke say . NEVER , & i cry endlessly,, just from the emotions,,,
In 1983 we had only seen pilots attack the Death Star once before and it was 6 years prior. Complaining about some of the most innovative practical special effects put to film at the time is really just exposing how jaded you are now. It isn't a result of the film over doing it.
I was able to find a copy of the theatrical version of A New Hope fairly easy but I've never been able to find a version of Return of the Jedi that isn't a hundred dollar VHS
For me the "Han shot first" change is more egregious because you see his neck digitally snap to dodge the laser rather than just an added voice over line. If no one told me I wouldn't think Darth Vader yelling "no" was a new addition but anyone can tell Han Solo did not originally slam his head to the side to dodge Greedo
It’s not too hard to keep track of 3 different fights going on. But sure, Return of the Jedi was when Star Wars began down the path of being more goofy and absurd, part of it annoys me, but I enjoyed it as a kid despite the Ewoks and eventually Jar Jar Binks when the prequels came out. If you think that’s bad, you should watch the two Ewok made-for-TV movies. Doesn’t even seem like Star Wars at all, more typical 1980’s fantasy adventure film, just with Ewoks in it.
I feel obliged to check out the ewok adventure movies at some point but honestly I've been avoiding any 80's tv Star Wars stuff after watching the Holiday Special
I agree it's not realistic but to me Star Wars doesn't need to be. It's a saga about space wizards with laser swords fighting robots with planet killing weapons... I'm okay with fudging the distance of space to make the story more dramatic and epic
Looking at behind the scenes materials it seems like the loss of magic you're talking about came from a tiredness after working on the two episodes before and then immediately jumping into Jedi. A lot of the visual effects artists especially seemed hard pressed with the films intense working schedule and a few even quit lucasfilm and ILM after production.
@@Fizz.mp4 yeah that's for sure, and I think Lucas wanted financial security for the rest of his life , and by selling ewok toys he knew he would make a king's Ransom, and that compromised the story, wookies would have been believable, it's a line in the sand that's when they jumped the shark
Let Me Debunk the cricticims you have. I already know because all of the criticism are predictable and unoriginal: 1. The Second Death Star is a Rehash and Unrealistic-DEBUNKED: No, Return of the Jedi is not a repeat of A New Hope. This isn't like Taken 2 and Taken 3 copying the plot of Taken 1 or the overrated shitty Toy Story 2 & 3 copying the plot of Toy Story 1. Key differences include the second Death Star being under construction, creating a different tactical scenario for the Rebels. The design is cooler and more menacing. The mission in Return of the Jedi involves both destroying the shield generator on Endor and the Death Star, whereas in A New Hope, it was just about the Death Star. The Imperials were prepared in Return of the Jedi, unlike being caught off guard in A New Hope. The final battle involves a multi-stage plan with ground and space battles, not just a single trench run. Comparisons to historical wars and rebuilding after attacks, like the World Trade Center post-9/11, show the realism in the concept of rebuilding and improving a powerful weapon. 2. Luke Skywalker's Plan to Rescue Han Solo is Convoluted-DEBUNKED: Luke strategically places allies and creates backup plans to divide Jabba’s attention, ultimately rescuing Han, eliminating Jabba, and freeing prisoners. The Rebel Alliance was too occupied with the war to assist, justifying the plan’s complexity. 3. Han Solo Is Out of Character-DEBUNKED: Han’s experience in carbonite adds realism, transitioning him from a rogue to a leader in the Rebel Alliance. His relationship with Leia deepens, showing his emotional growth while retaining his usual chuckle-headed nature, as seen in earlier films. His character isn't overacting like General Hux in the sequels. 4. Luke and Leia Being Siblings is a Plot Hole-DEBUNKED: Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher never had strong romantic chemistry, and Leia’s kisses were never romantic, especially the one in The Empire Strikes Back meant to provoke Han. The revelation ties into themes of family and destiny, enriching the characters' connections to Anakin. Luke and Leia are clearly embarrassed after discovering they’re siblings, and Leia telling Han about it is playful, not incestuous. 5. Return of the Jedi is Tonally Inconsistent and Too Lighthearted-DEBUNKED: The film combines the lighthearted tone of A New Hope with the dark tone of The Empire Strikes Back effectively. Unlike movies like Haunted Mansion (2003), the overrated shitty Cabin In The Woods (2012), Spider-Man 3 (2007), The Not-So Amazing Spider-Man 2 (2014), the overrated shitty Toy Story 3 (2010), the overrated shitty Avengers: Infinity War (2018), and the overrated shitty Avengers: Endgame (2019), Return of The Jedi knows when to be lighthearted and when to be dark. The unaltered version of Return of The Jedi with the song Lapti Neck is pretty dark and eerie, reminiscent of a nightclub with female characters wearing risqué outfits and dancing erotically. Jabba’s performer getting eaten alive by Jabba’s rancor is dark and far from being kid friendly. Salacious B. Crumb is creepy and adds an eerie element to the film. The Ewoks, whether you like them or not, kill people and will fuck you up (Trust me. We’ll get to that). 6. Return of the Jedi is Uneventful-DEBUNKED: Return of the Jedi is the most eventful and action-packed of the original trilogy, with a daring rescue, simultaneous battles, and a climactic duel. Luke’s transition to Jedi Master adds depth, and the climax's coordinated efforts create a complex scenario. 7. Boba Fett’s Death is Lame-DEBUNKED: Boba Fett's chaotic death emphasizes the unpredictability of combat. He served his purpose in Empire Strikes Back and wasn’t a primary antagonist in Return of the Jedi. His accidental death is more creative than others, like Jango Fett’s in Attack of the Clones. 8. Darth Vader’s Redemption is Rushed, and the Emperor’s Downfall is a Plot Hole-DEBUNKED: Vader’s internal conflict is evident throughout Return of the Jedi. Luke’s appeal to Anakin’s goodness impacts Vader, leading to his betrayal of Palpatine. The Emperor’s overconfidence is his critical flaw, leading to his downfall. 9. Leia’s Slave Outfit is Problematic-DEBUNKED: Carrie Fisher herself wanted the outfit. Jabba’s treatment of Leia highlights his role as a perverted villain, and Leia’s triumph in killing him emphasizes her strength.
@@MovieEnforcerwhat do you just send out your little manifesto to anyone you disagree with? I know I ain't the first guy you said that too, how predictable and unoriginal is that? You want to put not only words but paragraphs in my mouth and then give me a break, I like the movie I just said it was watered down and wookies would have been better,,,,, Lucas made a cash grab with the ewoks
@@MovieEnforcer, I agree with most of what's here but would posite that points 2 and 7, Luke's plan being convoluted and Fett's death being cheap, tend to be accurately described/felt by audiences due to the way they were presented in the final film. The issue with Luke's plan is that it feels like it is propelled by contrivance, mostly how jaba decides that the droids are to be kept alive and further that R2-D2 would work the barge and not in the palace. There's no reason for the audience to beleive that Jabba wouldn't scrap these inorganic beings, sell them off, or prescribe them duties that would place them outside of Luke's grasp during the rescue. It's not clear when, where, or how luke planned the actual climax of the rescue operation to occur and this is reinforced by the fact that he was not prepared to face the rancor and was taken by surprise. Overall, Luke's plan seemed very impromptu and thus worked due to plot contrivance. We would have had to seen a more concrete operation in order to beleive there was any forethought put in, say giving Lea a poison or holdout weapon to assassinate jaba (this assuming Jabba decides to make Lea his personal slave and not imprison her elsewhere, the only reason you can argue it was logical to assume this would occur is because of how jabba is portrayed to be a lustful figure in the first scenes) or by giving Lando something concrete to accomplish instead of waiting around to be present for the escape attempt. I did however appreciate the grimy atmosphere of Jabba's palace in the original cut far more than what us presented in the subsequent versions. Next, Fetts death, while sporadic and surely subversive of fan expectations, was executed in a less dramatic and more slapstick fashion. The choreography of the scene and the fact that boba dies due to a jetpack thruster malfunction after blind han swings a pole sporadically is what makes the death feel more cheap and less so brutal or unforgiving. If boba had died to something like friendly fire or a stray shot to the head, collapsing before our heroes as they rushed to fend off the rest of the assailants on the skiff in the heat of the sporadic escape attempt, it would have lent itself to the interpretation that fett suffered a gritty and cold death. Because of the presentation it feels that fetts death was more so played for laughs or was just executed incompitently. I'd also like to add that the could have been received as legitimate threats to the empire on endor if their combat scenes were better choreographed to display their cunning and ruthlessness in combat on their home turf. I understand that we probably couldn't have gotten brutal violence but we clearly could have seen a more cincerted and sussinct fighting style and tactics from the ewoks opposed to the spontaneous free for all in the begining of the fight. To the credit of the film, the scenes which sold the brutality of the fight were the ones where we saw the ewoks employ logs effectively against the ATSTs and where the ewoks were shown to be no match for direct confrontation with vehicles. I also like that Toy story 2 take because I've never considered it to be superior or even comparable in execution to toy story 1 bc imo it seems like woody re-learns the moral from the first film just in less compelling environments and drama. It doesent seem like buzz or any of the accompanying cast received any development so I was always left to wonder what the point of the story was. Pixar seemed to find themselves with a similar problem in the cars franchise.
Your issue with Han Solo's character not following his established tendencies in the first 2 films ignores one very big issue: real life. Harrison Ford wasn't even sure if he was going to do Return of the Jedi. He wasn't under contract until a few months before shooting and was in high demand after Raiders of the Lost Ark. It's quite possible that his role was diminished simply because they had already planned for him to not be flying the Falcon. I sort of agree that Boba Fett's death was pretty silly, but in Raiders when Ford just shoots the guy with the saber, it got a huge laugh. Solo's character was always the one to provide humor to the trilogy. So this might have just been a bit of a miss, but nothing that weakens him as a character. His role in the battle on Endor was definitely a supporting one and could have easily been flipped with Lando's role in the Falcon. But as many have said before, we've already seen Solo flying into the Death Star and blowing it up, so using Lando was slightly different, and only a few minutes of the film. I think a lot of these types of criticisms are a bit too harsh because the 3rd film is just a culmination of all the lore that was presented in the first 2 films. Complaining that it has continuity doesn't really make sense to me.
Such precise points. I feel this movie are 2 different things within one another. One is a grueling dark movie about attornment and redemption, and the other is a obnoxious toy ad made for small children. The fact that you are watching the sheer garbage that is the Special Edition surely didnt help.
Thank you. Its possible even with Gary Kurtz the franchise could have still gone in the same direction but I truly think producers like that leaving show a trend of Lucas filling his production with yes men that tended to not give the same level of conflict and push back on ideas that made the original two movies work super well.
True, Kurtz didn't work on Jedi. But..he was fired from the job he didn't resign. His collaboration with George was what made Empire and Star Wars so iconic. Without him, we have Ewoks, Jar jar, and porgs...we have lost. lol
@CC-dw9ch I wouldn't say those are creative dead ends. They needed to be implemented better. If the Ewoks were more like the Vietcong and just as ruthless. If we got Darth Jar Jar, that would've fixed him, but George got nervous for being called racist and he changed it. We aren't lost. Just bad storytelling on George's part.
Yes - and the original story called for Han to be killed near the final act. It was to be a more mature like ending, with although the rebels won - it was at a cost, and Leia was left in charge and Luke walked off into the sunset. However, after Raiders - Lucas wanted a more action packed film - and that is when the disagreements with Gary Kurtz began. I also think their relationship was strained because of the production problems with Empire(and it going overbudget).
Welcome to 1983. I saw Star Wars at a Drive-in in 1978 and loved it - I was six years old. Saw "Empire" in 1980 and was obsessed by Star Wars. Was given the "Return of the Jedi" storybook for my birthday, before going to see the movie in 1983 and.. well it was okay. A really good looking movie.. but no it did not satisfy the 12 year-old who played with the action figures and made his own sequel where Vader was made to pay for turning his back on the Jedi order. But it also made me accept that this thing didn't belong to me. I didn't love the prequal trilogy, but accepted it. I'm actually loving all the Disney+ stuff, because they are just like me, playing with action figures for real.
Awe, I love that. that's huge being able to recognize Star Wars isn't just for you especially way back before the prequels turned everyone into opinion machines, but I agree I don't think the new Disney+ stuff is as harmful as everyone says and for the most part it feels in keeping with the tone and imagination of Star Wars
These are getting increasingly better as you go! Very well thought-out analysis; so succinctly expressed, and I love that you brought up the concept of the hero's journey materialized by Joseph Campbell. I can't wait for you to cover the prequels!
I'm glad you thought so :) I'm worried they're getting repetitive but simultaneously too brisk in my actually explaining these ideas like Joseph Campbell and how much George Lucas has claimed to be influenced by it. I do have a lot to say about the prequels but I feel like I need a break from just looking and thinking and writing and editing Star Wars stuff
The issue with Return of the Jedi is that it's two movies mashed into one. I prefer the other two. I'll rewatch it, debate it, but never consider it great. It is at best 'good'. Comparing it to modern Star Wars is pointless, because they are entirely different entities. I can't myself because I haven't watched them. Not for any political/ideological reason, I just didn't think Disney could do a good job, and from what I've heard this seems to be the case.
Many good points but where I disagree is that I feel that the theme of return on Tatooine is inherent and Han doesn't participate in the final space battle because he's in love with Leia. Switched off from the sequels during the force awakens about halfway through and if I didn't them they don't exist, right?
You weren't hard enough on Obi-Wan. "You were our last hope." "Yoda spoke of another." "The other he spoke of is the other hope, that also exists in addition to you."
@@Fizz.mp4 Oh come on you guys. Star Wars was obviously supposed to be a stand alone movie. It's success is what drove the addition of the next two and created these plot changes. Lucas was writing and rewriting the films on the fly.
I love Rotj and think it’s a great movie. It has its problems but for 16 years it was the scapegoat where a lot of “criticisms” were levied at it, that could be levied at 4 and 5. It’s not as strong as those other two, but it’s not far off in quality. It’s a GREAT movie. Now I can’t defend the inconsistency in tone or the luke/ leia sibling thing. Rotj does have an inconsistent tone and I think if the Ewok stuff wasn’t as playful and was more urgent people would be more interested. The sibling thing I hate, but I’ve always felt like since George was editing things in and out he could’ve edited out the kiss in ESB. It would make things so much better. In summary Rotj is my favorite movie, and has its problems but it’s a great end to what I’d my favorite trilogy. Like the saving of Luke, Anakin revealed, victory celebration. Seeing the different planets. It’s the best movie ending ever in my opinion. Star Wars has always had problems, but what franchise doesn’t.
Debunking The Crictisims Made Against Return of The Jedi. 1. The Second Death Star is a Rehash and Unrealistic-DEBUNKED: No, Return of the Jedi is not a repeat of A New Hope. This isn't like Taken 2 and Taken 3 copying the plot of Taken 1 or the overrated shitty Toy Story 2 & 3 copying the plot of Toy Story 1. Key differences include the second Death Star being under construction, creating a different tactical scenario for the Rebels. The design is cooler and more menacing. The mission in Return of the Jedi involves both destroying the shield generator on Endor and the Death Star, whereas in A New Hope, it was just about the Death Star. The Imperials were prepared in Return of the Jedi, unlike being caught off guard in A New Hope. The final battle involves a multi-stage plan with ground and space battles, not just a single trench run. Comparisons to historical wars and rebuilding after attacks, like the World Trade Center post-9/11, show the realism in the concept of rebuilding and improving a powerful weapon. 2. Luke Skywalker's Plan to Rescue Han Solo is Convoluted-DEBUNKED: Luke strategically places allies and creates backup plans to divide Jabba’s attention, ultimately rescuing Han, eliminating Jabba, and freeing prisoners. The Rebel Alliance was too occupied with the war to assist, justifying the plan’s complexity. 3. Han Solo Is Out of Character-DEBUNKED: Han’s experience in carbonite adds realism, transitioning him from a rogue to a leader in the Rebel Alliance. His relationship with Leia deepens, showing his emotional growth while retaining his usual chuckle-headed nature, as seen in earlier films. His character isn't overacting like General Hux in the sequels. 4. Luke and Leia Being Siblings is a Plot Hole-DEBUNKED: Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher never had strong romantic chemistry, and Leia’s kisses were never romantic, especially the one in The Empire Strikes Back meant to provoke Han. The revelation ties into themes of family and destiny, enriching the characters' connections to Anakin. Luke and Leia are clearly embarrassed after discovering they’re siblings, and Leia telling Han about it is playful, not incestuous. 5. Return of the Jedi is Tonally Inconsistent and Too Lighthearted-DEBUNKED: The film combines the lighthearted tone of A New Hope with the dark tone of The Empire Strikes Back effectively. Unlike movies like Haunted Mansion (2003), the overrated shitty Cabin In The Woods (2012), Spider-Man 3 (2007), The Not-So Amazing Spider-Man 2 (2014), the overrated shitty Toy Story 3 (2010), the overrated shitty Avengers: Infinity War (2018), and the overrated shitty Avengers: Endgame (2019), Return of The Jedi knows when to be lighthearted and when to be dark. The unaltered version of Return of The Jedi with the song Lapti Neck is pretty dark and eerie, reminiscent of a nightclub with female characters wearing risqué outfits and dancing erotically. Jabba’s performer getting eaten alive by Jabba’s rancor is dark and far from being kid friendly. Salacious B. Crumb is creepy and adds an eerie element to the film. The Ewoks, whether you like them or not, kill people and will fuck you up. 6. Return of the Jedi is Uneventful DEBUNKED: Return of the Jedi is one of the most eventful and action-packed films in the Star Wars franchise. The film opens with a daring rescue mission at Jabba’s palace, followed by the battle on the sail barge. The climax features a simultaneous three-pronged battle, including the fight on Endor, the space battle, and the lightsaber duel between Luke and Vader. These events showcase the characters’ growth, especially Luke’s transition from Jedi Knight to Jedi Master. The film’s action and character arcs are far from uneventful, offering a satisfying conclusion to the trilogy. 7. Boba Fett’s Death Is Lame DEBUNKED: Boba Fett’s death occurs in chaotic combat, highlighting the unpredictability of battle. His accidental death by jetpack malfunction is more creative than other character deaths, such as Jango Fett’s cliché demise in Attack of the Clones. Boba Fett had already served his purpose in capturing Han Solo, and his death in Return of the Jedi underscores the chaotic nature of the battle. 8. Darth Vader’s Redemption Is Rushed & Emperor’s Lack of Foresight DEBUNKED: Vader’s internal conflict throughout Return of the Jedi shows his struggle between loyalty to the Emperor and his desire to be with his son, Luke. Luke’s appeal to Anakin’s goodness influences Vader’s decision to betray the Emperor and save Luke. The Emperor’s overconfidence and underestimation of Luke’s influence on Vader are his critical flaws, leading to his downfall. 9. Leia’s Slave Outfit Is Problematic & Degrades Her Character DEBUNKED: Leia’s slave outfit was Carrie Fisher’s idea, highlighting Jabba’s role as a perverted villain. Leia’s triumph in killing Jabba emphasizes her strength and independence, showing she remains a strong and capable character despite the outfit. 10. Endor Is an Uninspired Planet DEBUNKED: Endor’s forest environment contrasts with the Empire’s mechanical nature, symbolizing the natural world overcoming technological tyranny. The planet allows for the Ewoks’ guerrilla warfare tactics, highlighting the theme of underdogs defeating a more powerful force. Endor’s simplicity grounds the fantastical elements of the saga in a relatable environment, making the conflict more accessible. 11. Too Much Going On During the Climax DEBUNKED: The three-part climax (the battle on Endor, the space battle, and Luke vs. Vader) is masterfully interwoven, maintaining tension and excitement. Each thread complements the others, enhancing the stakes. The pacing keeps viewers engaged without overwhelming them, creating a dynamic and thrilling conclusion that ties all plot threads together. 12. Han and Leia’s Romance Doesn’t Develop/Get Pushed Aside DEBUNKED: While their romance was central in The Empire Strikes Back, Return of the Jedi shows their relationship maturing and deepening. Leia’s risk in saving Han from Jabba demonstrates her deep feelings. Their playful banter and moments of vulnerability show their bond growing stronger, providing closure to their character arcs. 13. Lucas Took Full Control, and Cracks Started to Show DEBUNKED: This claim is incorrect. While George Lucas was the executive producer, Return of the Jedi was directed by Richard Marquand and written by Lawrence Kasdan. Lucas didn’t write or direct the film. The collaborative effort of these filmmakers, including contributions from Steven Spielberg and David Koepp, is responsible for the success of Return of the Jedi, not a sign of Lucas’s alleged overreach. 14. Going Back to Tatooine Is Repetitive DEBUNKED: Returning to Tatooine is a logical continuation of the story set up in The Empire Strikes Back. Han was taken to Jabba the Hutt, who lives on Tatooine, making the location essential for the plot. Return of the Jedi portrays Tatooine differently, with new locations like Jabba’s Palace and the Sarlacc Pit, adding fresh elements to the familiar setting. This return also serves as a full-circle moment, resolving key plot points. 15. Luke’s Training Is Underutilized & Yoda’s Death Is Rushed DEBUNKED: Luke’s return to Dagobah focuses on emotional and spiritual preparation rather than physical training. Yoda and Obi-Wan emphasize that Luke’s final test is to confront Vader, not with aggression, but to face the darkness within himself and the galaxy. Yoda’s death is not rushed but serves as a poignant moment in the story, highlighting the passage of time and marking Luke’s transition to the last Jedi Knight. 16. Ewoks Are Childish/Unrealistic & Wookies Should’ve Been Used Instead DEBUNKED: Ah yes, the best for last. I love the Ewoks with no remorse and I’m proud Ewok defender. I loved them as a kid, and I love them even more as an adult. Fuck Jar Jar Binks, fuck Rose Tico (The characters not the actors) and fuck Dory from Finding Nemo (2003) (Yep, I went there)! I hated Jar Jar Binks and Dory as a kid, and I still hate them as an adult but the less about those two the better. The Ewoks are often misunderstood as mere cute creatures, but they are far more formidable. When they capture Luke, Han, C-3P0, and R2-D2, they intend to kill them, showcasing their dangerous nature. Like Wolverines and Honey Badgers, Ewoks may appear harmless, but they are fierce and deadly, making them formidable allies. Originally, George Lucas wanted Return of the Jedi to take place on Kashyyyk with Wookiees instead of Endor with Ewoks. Steven Spielberg and David Koepp, who were initially involved in the project, along with Lawrence Kasdan, proposed using Ewoks instead, drawing a parallel to the Vietcong during the Vietnam War-small, underestimated forces defeating a technologically superior enemy through courage and ingenuity. Budget constraints also played a role in the decision to use Ewoks over Wookiees. Lucas was initially reluctant but was eventually convinced. The Ewoks' victory over the Empire was not solely due to their efforts but was part of a combined effort with the Rebels. The Ewoks provided critical local support, additional manpower, and knowledge of the terrain, which allowed the Rebel strike team to focus on their mission to destroy the shield generator. The Empire's underestimation of the Ewoks, due to their primitive technology and small size, led to their downfall. If Wookiees had been used, the Empire would have likely deployed a stronger force, as they took Wookiees more seriously due to their known combat abilities. This concept is also illustrated in the Star Wars: The Force Unleashed video game and A New Hope, where the Empire's serious treatment of Wookiees is evident.
This is an excellent collection of debunkings. I don't agree with all of #5 because some of those movies are outstanding, (especially Cabin in the Woods) but as for the Star Wars related takes, they are pretty much on the nose. The OP's takes are also based on the Special Editions rather than the original films which misguides his opinions. By the mid 90's, Lucas was busy destroying the wonderful trilogy he has already created.
Just saying "nu uh" doesn't debunk anything, I can agree with some but most of his points are still right, Luke and Leia were clearly never siblings originally, ewoks are annoying and childish, han solo is useless, the third death star pointless rehash and the movie is filled with children friendly material, all of this is just objective, empirical and observable truth to anyone who watches these movies back to back and doesn't have a veil over their eyes. If you liked it as a child and still defends it because of it, you just proof him right. Lucas also had almost complete control of the movie and basically directed it himself, even if uncredited, look it up. Most of the worst of this movie is also consequence of his greed and desire to make everything into a damn toy.
Returning to Tatooine makes sense from a Luke centric perspective for the reasons you outlined, but having Jaba's palace being on that planet ruins something about Han's story. If you are hiding from somebody, you don't do so in their back yard. Jaba's palace being on Tatooine means that Luke and Ben would logically never have met Han.
I take it you've never heard the saying, "the best spot to hide is sometimes the most obvious one."? I learned a long time ago that it's absolutely true. People expect you to follow the rules and behave when you are around others, especially authority figures, so they don't expect you to do something they would disapprove of. So it makes it easy as long as it's not obvious to do things in front of them without them noticing.
@Fizz.mp4 Even as a child, I thought it was strange that Tatooine was Jabba's base of operations. His presence alone would be enough to make it the most heavily scrutinized backwater planet in the outer rim. So, probably not a great choice for a famous Jedi fugitive to hide out in his Jedi robes or stash a force sensitive kid with the last name Skywalker. Unless, Jabba's a minor regional player. Like a big fish in a small pond. But that doesn't seem to be the case. The fact that he can afford to keep bounty hunters like Boba Fett on speed dial proves he's a high roller.
That never even phased me at all. People hide out from their problems on Earth and do so simply by leaving one country for another. Do we even know where on Tatooine Jabba's palace is in relation to Mos Eisley? Han was trying to find work, and as a smuggler, Mos Eisley might have been the best place. Remember, the scene with Jabba at the Millennium Falcon was cut from the original movie. Some of these "issues" were created when Lucas stuck his big old edit back in there.
@@MikeSchmidt969 Han wasn't in hiding from Jabba he was just avoiding him until he could earn enough to pay him back. Jabba was expecting payment when Han came back from Alderaan. He didn't put a bounty on Han until Han quit showing up for work.
To me as the generation who grew up with prequel trilogy OT storyline is slow and boring but understood at the scale and format used by filmaker during 70s. But the CGI and technology used is far ahead advanced. Even it dont need to remastered for special edition but I like the change George Lucas make for Anakin's Force Ghost he put Hayden Christensen after the PT is completed. I hate edition he make Emperor's hologram projector in episode 5. Original it's not Palpatine after he reveal himself as Darth Sidious from episode 3. Episode 5 is the bestest OT to me. Prequel is have lack and plot hole but the score music theme especially Duel Of The Fates, Anakin's fall in dark side scene and Battle Of The Heroes is very epic and great. Episode III is the bestest ever film in SW history franchise. But add the new thing something never mentioned in OT like the chosen one prophecy and dark side of the Force can cheat death and Darth Plagueis that is drastically changed the entire trilogies. The Clone Wars animation fixing and explained all question from film except for Darth Plagueis. We see there is witches and magic too. And Clone Army is not Stormtrooper as we seen in OT. The Bad Batch explains that. The best trilogy is the original. Prequel is the bestest. To me I more love sequel trilogy because storyline is strong, deeper and it linked from original and prequel trilogy. I want to know where the origins of Jedi and Sith came from and how the Force could be found and be used by few people through their own method. Anakin Skywalker still is the chosen one. It's not breaking canon.
Stop watching an eight minute mark. You can’t keep saying how you love return of the Jedi and then bash stuff that is beyond your pay grade. Maybe you read a book on storytelling written by someone that never told the completed story. The first three really the first six movies tell a story and are amazing for a lot of reasons. The real critics 20 something years ago didn’t like Hayden’s portrayal of Anakin. People can criticize anything they want, but a true fan would not criticize any of the Lucas movies. There has to be 50 to 100,000,000 Star Wars fans that speak English alone. More than half of them like a movie or show/ story it’s a story worth telling. 75% of the Disney crap is useless to real fans. Disney doesn’t spend the time and effort into telling Star Wars stories. They also don’t follow George’s layout / outline / rules
@@taylorswan8587 Just as long as you're critiquing the real thing. This guy is critiquing the Special Editions which are not the same as the original releases (available on 4K77 website if you're interested). If you're going to say things "went wrong starting with" a specific movie, then you kind of need to be critiquing that version of the movie, and not the rehashed edited version while drawing conclusions based on elements that weren't there in the first place.
It's not called being a "true fan" it's called a "fanboy" and is the most childish and pathetic behaviour any grown adult can have when dealing with media criticism.
How many 3rd movies in a Trilogy ever live up to the first 2 or the original? Now i’m not counting Lord of the Rings as that was a planned Trilogy taken from source material. Superman 3 sucked. Alien 3 was divisive and still divisive today. Back to the Future 3 was not well received in 1990 as it felt like they were retreading the plot again. XMen The Last Stand and Spiderman 3 were not well received after both sequels did better than the originals. The Matrix Reloaded and Revolution were so hated at the time, that is the king of backlash. Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade was actually received well bur the movie resembles Raiders of the Lost Ark too much. The Dark Knight Rises was not well received. I think a movie Trilogy usually runs out of steam by the 3rd movie unless you have a grand plan from the beginning. Return of the Jedi is no different.
I really like Return of the Jedi. I certainly wouldn't call it my favorite film of the original set. But I have sometimes considered it better than Empire. But your assessment about the big fights at the end, and this realization of the four individual stories happening at the wrapping up of Episode 1 is absolutely correct. There's too much going on. I guess I've always felt that, but you pointing that out made me realize Yeah, there's too much going on. I didn't think I was going to care about your essay. But it was actually very thought-provoking. And a few good thought experiments in the mix.
Yea :) That's the best I can hope for. I'm glad you found it engaging. Honestly that's the biggest thing I want my videos to do; have people think a little different and more indepth about the media they enjoy. When I first saw the film I think expected to like Return of the Jedi the best because Jabba's Palace is such a good opening
Man I just watched this and yeah I don’t know it just feels completely different than the first two and it’s jarring. The film is okay and I think it has some of the best moments in the series. Fuck the Ewoks 🫶
My favorite of the original three films is Return of the Jedi… but the original pre “special edition” version. The change to the Jabba’s palace sequence with the musical number and the cleaner look turn it into something more like the show that run every half hour at a theme park and not the dark and dangerous and dirty scum filled crime lord lair it feels like in the original. The whole tone of the scene changes, which makes Jabba seem a lot less dangerous and disgusting. By the way I was born in 1985, so it’s not like I was there on opening day and wanna be all old man curmudgeon about this, even as a maybe 10 year old kid when the special editions came out, I was pissed at the changes. And every few years he kept going back and making it worse and worse and worse….
You have studied these films well. The force is strong in you. And I believe you, the problems did begin with ROTJ. But I confess - I like the Ewoks for their contribution to the Star Wars table, the little guys can help win big battles. That is empowering. Was the three way offensive at the close of ROTJ too much? I thought it just right, and the film's greatest contribution to cinema, maybe the finest climax to any action adventure film. I agree there is a cartoonish quality to the first half, like a story board brought to life; and the Endor section does digress. But then, C3PO is a 'god' was great. And, compared to the films that came after...this was a masterwork. But how can you not love Rogue One. The best ever sequel prequel ('seqpreq', offered freely without charge)
Jabba's gang of freaks was always my favorite part as a kid and I can remember being a little sad when Luke and the gang just blew them up in the first chunk of the film
@@Fizz.mp4 Oh, yeah, so sad they all had to go, except Boba Fett, but even his escape was added later and I felt it changed his role too much. Plus he was the only one who didn't qualify as a freak.
I like Revenge of the Sith and I enjoy all the meme's but I also don't think it's a great movie. It's fun but in my opinion Empire Strikes Back and A New Hope were more than fun.
I hold the opposite opinion than most people have. Empire is my least favorite from the OT and RotJ is my favorite. That's almost exclusively down to the massive space battle at the end. I don't really want to see the Jedi centric stuff in Star Wars. To me Jedi are the dullest part of the IP and it's gotten way worse after George sold it and it was bad enough in the prequels. I want to see spaceships shooting at each other, you know, like a war in the stars is, you could even say I like to see star wars. I'll admit the battle of Hoth was awesome and honestly I'd often stop watching it at that point. There are a lot of things which make Empire better from a more objective point of view in regards to things like story, pacing, character development and so on, but that matters less to me than space ship make boom. That's not to say that a Star Wars film can get by on that alone. If it did I'd enjoy the sequel trilogy and I despise that abomination. What drew me to the franchise as a kid was the aesthetics of the ships and vehicles. They looked like they really existed and they a had design languages they stuck to. I'd rather be reading about the technical specifications of a Victory class Star Destroyer than the history of the Jedi order. The space battle of Endor is just fantastic and it's never been topped in film or television. It may never be since a good chunk of what made it so great is the fact they used models to create it. If CGI ever gets actually photorealistic someone may do better but for now even though they can restrict what type of shots you can get models are superior to even the best CGI.
There was so much effort to given every single model in the original trilogy. If you are a space battle guy I completely understand loving ROTJ. The shit is just so fun and energetic and I especially love the huge wall of the death star that they built to crash the ships into. I also definitely agree that the more they show of the jedis the lamer and lamer they get
I was always a Star Wars fan. Last year I went and saw ROTJ in theater for the 40th anniversary, and, watching it quietly without my phone, I realized I was bored almost the whole time. On the other hand, I can watch episodes 4 and 5 anytime and be content. 🤷♂️
You know, I use to think that people hating on Return of the Jedi was because of their anger, disappointment, and hatred towards the sequel movies that they are now actively beginning to disown their very love for Star Wars in general and act like Star Wars should've never happened in the first place. Basically irony-poisioning; when a certain fanbase begins to crap on everything and anything that makes the franchise what it is and mostly pretend and say that said franchise should've never existed in the first place and that its very existence is a disgrace and should be iradicated from memeory. You then see a lot of horrible videos and posts of people being (fake) angry, yelling, and making garbage content on the internet that's just unwatchable to sit though. A good example of this can be the Sonic The Hedgehog fanbase where Sonic fans have that same way of thinking. They hate the current 3D platforming games and say things like Sonic should've never existed, it was a terrible idea in the history of video games, or Sonic should've remained and died in the 90s with only the 2D side-scrolling games being considered the only thing that should exist from Sonic The Hedgehog. They say all sound like stupid dip shits and don't take into consideration of what others might think of the things they are hating, or worse they feel the need to harass and attack others for not contending with the general consensus and try to tell everyone that they are wrong for liking something they hate. To me, this is just utter BS and horrible immature behavior. It's people being on a whole other level of cruel and spoiled and just going out of their way to make a business on saying a lot of false things that aren't true about things that we enjoy. It's really sad and exhausting to look at. But after watching this video, when looking not at the franchise's history, but more so on the history of the fanbase itself and their reception of the franchise's outputs, it's pretty clear to me that the Star Wars fans have always been problematic since day one. Nothing has changed since the release of A New Hope to release of the Phantom Menace. People always had something negative to say about any of the movies regardless of what era you grew up in. One of Star Wars attributes was always about selling toys since the first movie in 1977, and people pretend like it wasn't the case. It's was only an issue in Return of the Jedi. Like what!?🤨 If people have a genuine problem with the ewoks, then in that logic, they should also have a problem with Chewbacca, Yoda, and Jabba The Hutt, or any non-human character that appears in the franchise and basically just have Star Wars just be about normal people who live and fight wars in space. Is that what you really want out of Star Wars!? You f***ing degenerate hypocrites!! The fact that the original era also had its fair share of stinkers like the holiday special and (to some extent) the two ewok movies, and nobody wants to acknowledge their existence and "contributions" to the franchise and only talk about how superior the original trilogy minus episode 6 is just pure gatekeeping at its finest. A false narrative of around someone's success and failure at its finest. Bottom line: I did only seem to really agree with the first part of the video. While I do respect your opinion on not liking episode 6, I found myself strongly disagreeing with every point made in this video because of everything I had just mentioned and that I love all six movies George Lucas made. I have zero problems with these movies and love them all equally. Nowadays, whenever I see people criticize thses movies, it's sometimes made with the intent of antagonizing or labeling the creator as a bad person, nitpicking one minor aspect as an excuse to say an entire movie is trash, and harassing others for liking something that the haters did not. This may be a rare unpopular opinion, but there are people who don't like episodes 4 and 5 either. Or they don't consider those movies to be their personal standard for what Star Wars is. It may sound unheard of, but those are real opinions from some of the voices within this fanbase. And even though it's rare, it's shouldn't be a reason to dismiss them as non-considerate.
Definitely. ROTJ is the beginning of decadence in Star Wars. The script hole made by Luke and Leia being siblings was in front of everyone before the special edition. "Somehow" Leia always knew Luke to be her brother but she still kissed him, right? Obi Wan said Anakin had left his lightsaber to Luke. Actually Anakin didn't know he had a son before the Battle of Yavin. This makes Obi Wan a liar and there is no "certain point of view" to excuse it. Not to mention the Second Death Star. It is said to be even more destructive than the First one in the introduction of the film but it cannot destroy anything else apart from the Mon Calamari cruisers. And what about the Endor "moon" which does not rotate around any planet? I could mention other things like the stupid plan to rescue Han Solo (unneeded sexualization of Carrie Fisher included) or the ewoks (Jar Jar's forerunners) but that's enough.
As far as taste in movies goes, I always liked Return of the Jedi. Return of the Jedi was a pretty decent finale to the Original Star Wars Trilogy and the absolute best parts of Return of the Jedi were the opening sequence on Tatoonie and the speeder bike chase scene on Endor. The third act of this film was a let down. The Ewoks vs. Imperial Troops scenes were silly, the special edition of Return of the Jedi was pretty awful, and the special edition change with Hayden Christensen being Anakin's force ghost was absolutely terrible.
I was very intrigued when I learned that most of Jabba's palace was other artists. I assumed growing up that every star wars puppet was a jim henson creation, they've always just had such a good quality to them.
@@Fizz.mp4 Good point! Frankly I didn't know. Hey I had a realization last day. I had the same reaction when I saw both Jabba and Darth Maul for the firts time lol. Lucas knows how to make us react! I'm old so I probably saw Jabba first in the TV trailer at the time ;-)
not really because well i mean the star wars hoilday speical happened after a new hope and yet somehow star wars recovered from that. and lets just be clear star wars recovered from the prequels too.
The first 3 movies in the 70s were great, the next three were good, but had some noticeable problems a casual viewer could spot, the last 3 movies are garbage, and unwatchable. Some of the TV series are good and some of the side story movies are good, but its hit and miss.
Return of the Jedi is the first Star Wars movie that wasn’t perfect, but it’s still one of the greatest threequels in movie history and a worthy conclusion to the original trilogy. The real problems with Star Wars didn’t start until The Force Awakens.
I disagree. Han was completely wrong in the film. In top of that he and Leia are shunted to the side where they don’t get any real character development. The reuse of the Death Star and Tatooine was kinda lame - part of Star Wars was about seeing new worlds. Instead we got to go to three places we’d been before. Speaking of which, the return of Luke to complete his training was a giant wet fart. Nope, no new training or wisdom. Just go kill Darth Vader - the very thing we were telling you NOT to do last time only now with the knowledge that you’re killing your own parent. No, Jedi was when Lucas took full control and the cracks started to show.
I agree with all of what @davidanderson4748 said. Lucas took control of the franchise and started spinning into a weird characterless clustered nightmare.
Yes. Special Edition.. 1hr 9mins exactly. That first frame of film containing the first glimpse of that Ewok foot. Stamping metaphorically onto the series, irrevocably altering the direction of the series forever. Like putting vinegar onto ice cream. It's still ice cream, but tastes of vinegar.
What if Star Wars was just straight forward? Luke is the boy, has a mentor, has an nemesis (Darth Vader). There is no "Father' issues...Leia is not his sister...the whole point of the trilogy is Luke defeating Vader and his Emperor...wouldn't that have been better? I think so.
I agree. Too many plot contrivances made the universe way to small with all the family stuff. I would have much preferred it continue to follow the basic hero's journey with more star wars creativity to fill out the universe.
I was born too late and only ever owned the special editions growing up. I have only been able to track down the theatrical version of A New Hope. I don't think they affected me but I think they've affected the perception and true history of Star Wars and at the very least I believe all versions should be easily available in the highest quality possible. I was praying when Disney+ launched it would have every version but instead it launched with it's own slightly altered special editions.
@@Fizz.mp4 there are options on the web, especially something called 4k77, which is a wonderful original version of Star Wars. I also own copies of Empire and Jedi in original matter. I was very moved by your reference to 'polishing a diamond". I watched Star Wars a few months ago and had that very feeling. Screw Disney.
@@Fizz.mp4 Han shot first is the change that has the most/worst impact on story/ character development, because of how it robs han of his arc and (theoretically) undercuts the tension of wondering if he will have a change of heart. But for me the worst change that does the most damage to the OG trilogy as a viewing experience is the re-inclusion of the Jabba scene in ANH. I saw Jedi in theatres when I was 7-8 years old. I had spend half a lifetime wondering, waiting, anticipating the build up to the reveal of the big bad crime boss jabba. He was dark, creepy, disturbing, gross - and a wonderful villain. Future generations were robbed of the experience of seeing jabba as a menacing threat by introducing him first as a clownish bafoon that allows han to literally walk all over him with no negative consequences. There is an undercurrent of looming dread all through the rest of ANH and ESB - punctuated by the reminder when han is about to leave hoth because he has this price on his head and it's a really big deal. He lives every day in fear that some bounty hunter might show up and kill him or someone he cares about. For me growing up with only the OG trilogy the ongoing threat of Jabba lurking in the shadows is part of what gave weight and tension to the whole story up until the moment leia chokes jabba out and we know that han and friends are free from this threat once and for all. Adding jabba in ANH in a comical scene is the one special edition change that not only ruins the scene that it appears in, but damages the greatest number of other scenes in the trilogy.
Excuse me? You don't think Revenge of the Sith concluded the prequel trilogy in a satisfying way? I thought that movie did wonderful in that aspect. And how was Tattooine "forced" in that movie to give a conclusion? It wasn't since you had to have Luke be brought to his aunt and uncle to set up what we see in the original. I don't see anything "forced" about that dude. Tell me how the movie should have ended? Not that it couldn't end differently or anywhere else but that ending and setting was rather fitting for what we are to see next. Seriously, how dare you!
there is a lot of ways to look at these films and if for you seeing tatooine at the end of revenge of the sith feels like the perfect build into seeing luke on tatooine in a new hope then that's great but for me after Annakin gets his limbs cut off the film feels like it's just rushing towards the finale and moving all the pieces into place. We just flash cut so that everyone can see the emperor and darth vader are building the death star, leia's on alderran, lukes on tatooine, and oh just be sure to wipe one of the droids memories so he can't say anything about all the info he shouldn't have based on the next trilogy. The film feels like it forces the ideas and themes of the prequels into the mold of the original trilogy without trying to be it's own thing or find a satisfying way to show off it's own ideas; for the trilogy I would have preferred more moments of yoda and obi-wan sitting with their sadness, loneliness and failures as friends and mentors to annakin instead of young aunt and uncle lars staring at the suns. So for me for the film doesn't work well as a conclusion to it's trilogy or as an organic lead into the next one, but I'm also one guy with one opinnion and I don't want you to stop liking Revenge of the Sith and Star Wars because of my feelings
@@Fizz.mp4 I saw nothing rushed really but maybe the Empire ship and the death star being made, but I can see why we see those things in place. The movie did what it needed to do and ended how it needed to. It brought closure to those left behind who survived and was setting up the next successor to Anakin on a setting he'd be brought up in and where Obi-Wan would be to watch him and eventually meet him. Revenge of the Sith maintained being its own story while leading up to what we know and it did so at ease. You likely are just a prequel hater trying to find faults in the wrong places and boy does it not work. Trust me, you won't ever get me to hate this movie because I see the value in it, even if it could have been a bit better and had more moments of Anakin turning to the dark side at a slower pace instead of instant like the movie displayed. Ending with Luke and Leia not being with their families would have been ridiculous and left off as an offscreen event that feels like it was forgotten about so no, your ending is just a mess.
It’s the weakest of the originals, but it’s still pretty good. It would have been better if it were directed by someone with more connection to it. The backstory of the prequels actually improved the resonance of the movie.
As much as I love the original trilogy, I cannot deny that Return of the Jedi is indeed the weakest film in the series. Its few good moments are not enough to counter the big problems it has. Return of the Jedi is no doubt when the cracks in Star Wars began to show. These cracks would continue to widen in the prequels before the franchise completely broke apart in the sequels.
The only things I liked about Return of the Jedi are Mark and Iain. Everything else is phoned in, rushed, or embellished with burp jokes and a hint of racism. It's not quite Phantom Menace bad but it's not good.
It's less that it's hard to follow three battles and more that my care is drawn in too many directions so that I really only pay attention when the Throne Room pops up but I absolutely agree it is not as obnoxious as Phantom Menace's four battles
@@Fizz.mp4I wouldn't mind that if there were stakes. But they had killed off every problematic character at this point (Yoda dying mid welcome back greeting was terrible, Leia being Luke's sister was terrible). The only characters in any real jeopardy are Luke, Lando and Wedge. I love Wedge but most people don't recognise him. The fast track redemption of Anakin for throwing an old man down a well is a weird message and if luke can survive such a fall with a few days training suddenly episode 9 isn't so weird.
I agree on the Han and Leia front but I think in the 80's trying to do a hundred wookie outfits a village big enough for actual people would have looked really bad
@@Fizz.mp4 haha yea probably, but at least we've seen that Wookies can use technology like guns and tools and drive things like ships and mechs instead of throwing rocks and using slingshots. It would have been thematically more believable.
I agree. It was the ewoks as to why I threw in the towel. Really, ewoks , EWOKS and not a horde of Wookies, who are the difference in defeating the evil empire? (🫤) I saw it was about selling toys and the animated Saturday morning cartoon. (🙄) Perhaps because I found them more annoying than useful. At least now I see I'm not the only one.
I have no problems with Return of the Jedi whatsoever. I think it ended the original trilogy on a very high note.
Finally. Someone who knows what they are talking about. Empire Strikes Back is great but severely overrated and that the true weakest of the original trilogy.
I saw Return of the Jedi when it originally came out in theaters, and I've never had a problem with the Ewoks, and I don't understand why so many people rejected them. I cried when they were fighting the Stormtroopers, and one of them died.
There is that one really brutal shot where the main ewok tries to check on his friend but he's just face down in the dirt
Just look at Wicket trying to throw stones against storm troopers and hitting himself. Then look at Jar Jar fighting against battle droids. Then compare both.
Did you know the word Ewok was never used in the movie?
The root problem is that RotJ was a 90 minute commercial that people paid to watch.
The other two were movies.
When I was a child I loved the battle on Endor. The speeder bikes the ATST's the teddy bears. The Forrest aesthetic the treehouse village. It was all really engaging at the time. As an adult it's the least interesting part and I can't get back to the childhood feelings I had. I think some aspects hit different for different age groups. I wonder if I was a child today if the Endor scenes would still be impactful for me.
It's an interesting question. I sometimes wonder if what I look back on in my childhood as being too much and too silly maybe today with modern kids movies like Despicable Me and Inside Out might make kids think it's too slow or maybe not enough.
@@Fizz.mp4My friend's 13 year old son had watched all three trilogies and the stand-alones as an elementary schooler. So, not that long ago. Yet, his favorites were the two Ewok movies. Granted, that's not a great sample size.
However, Ewoks have a timeless tactile quality that's missing in modern animated characters.
In other words, they look real.
Look at the massive popularity of Grogu. There's something about a high end puppet or a high quality bear suit that speaks to the child in all of us. Including the child inside literal children.
I tuned out of star wars when jedi dropped, I was 13 and it seemed like a kids film to me then, now I'm 54 and I have a star wars room in my house and love everything about it
Same thing happened with me after Attack of the Clones. I was 17 and thought it was boring, and the romance, horrid. I let the hate take over though. Never again!
It was always for kids you wally
@@kaygee2121well to be fair the romance in the prequels was a politician trying to have a romance with the little knight she's groomed from childhood, and it's all his first time ofc it's awkward and weird and creepy
I'm at a loss how that could happen to you in just 6 years. I'm only a year older than you. I saw Star Wars in the theater with my sister and dad when I was 8 and I was never the same. Granted, ESB and ROTJ were not as revolutionary to me, but how could they be? As they say, you always remember your first time. Yet those sequels were still miles ahead of the sci-fi movies coming out at that time like Tron and Last Starfighter.
@malapertfourohfour2112 She didn't groom him. Anakin was the aggressor. She bought into his weak game hook line and sinker. He came home talking about how he killed an entire tribe of Tusken Raiders, and she was like, "You need to be more patient and not let your ego disrupt your personal growth." Like she's used to boyfriends who dabble in mass killing.
It's always been my favorite STAR WARS film, and possibly my favorite film of all time of any kind. Nothing is ever perfect, but if you go looking for problems, you'll surely find them.
Same. It was the climax of the og trilogy that the rest built up to, to me. The throne room scenes and all the tension around it were peak star wars epicness.
I cringe when I hear the, "NOOOOO!" That George shoved into the climax scene.
I happen to like that addition and "hair"? How do you confuse that with HEAR? Now you got me cringing. -_-
@@devontehuntley6274 Maybe he dictated that with voice. You can't know. As for the "addition" it was unnecessary and silly.
@@MikeSchmidt969 Well then perhaps he shouldn't use audio-to-text, but still, even the audio should capture HEAR if he said it right. The change was rather fitting to me. It made the moment feel more whole because silent Vader just felt off to me. Plus it matches how Episode III ended like a full circle moment. What was a line of despair was now redemption. It works.
@@devontehuntley6274 All of that is obvious in Vader's death scene when he asks Luke to remove his helmet. Saying no adds nothing that wasn't there already. And I'm pretty sure anyone can use whatever method of entering text that they choose. Your snark is needed less than Vader's no.
I prefer the og version for that reason
I think Mike Stoklasa of RLM put it best: "ROTJ is definitely the black sheep of the original trilogy, but it's more of a very light grey sheep"
I would agree with that. I only notice my problems with the film when I think about the films that came after. if it was just the original trilogy and nothing else I don't think I'd have nearly as many problems
I love that review. "It's ANOTHER death star."
@@jasonfischer8946was that the group viewing they did commentary for Jedi? That one had me in stitches constantly.
Just before the infamous added “noooooo”
“I have no idea what Vader is thinking here, if only he could say something so we’d know what was going through his mind!”
@jekw23 yeah that's them
Red Letter Media is a hack and a filthy casual who has no idea what he’s talking about. Coming from a guy who hates the Prequels BTW.
The biggest problem is Lucas shoe-horning Leia as Luke's sister. It adds nothing but problems, and is obviously not the original idea for the "other Skywalker".
It worked perfectly.
Hipsters who didn't see ROTJ in theaters in the Summer of 1983 are back to bash this GenX classic, the only genuinely *80s* Star Wars flick. And as usual the hipsters are the *assassins of cool*
Dude, the "problem" began in 1997 with the Special Editions. Pre-1996 is the real thing, movies, books, comics, tabletop RPG, all of it was great. From the 1976 comic con to 1996 is the only era of original SW.
This. 1000 times this. There was nothing "wrong" with the original trilogy. ROTJ may have Jabba's dance club and the ewoks, but that is a far cry from Jar Jar, or space's version of CSPAN, or what amounted to the whiniest pre-Vader on record. Meanwhile, everything Lucas did for the special editions was just more icing on an already perfect cake. Who needed a bigger death star explosion? Who needed more stormtroopers in the hallway when one bumping his head on the door was enough? Who needed the beautiful ship models replaced with CGI for absolutely no reason? It was like polishing a gold medal so much the silver came through. People today judging anything from the first trilogy are already watching an inferior product when using the Special Editions as their example. Go find 4K77 and get yourself a personal (don't sell it) copy of the original films and see them in their true beauty. And try to imagine that absolutely nothing like it came before it, because that was the reality.
@@MikeSchmidt969 Well said, dude!! All killer points! And, yes, get copies of 4K77, 4K83 and Harmy's Despecialized Editions (he just dropped a BEAUTIFUL update to ROTJ in version 3.1).
@@RadRat1978 How is Empire not genuinely 80s? It was released in 1980.
I'd argue that Empire was the pacesetter for 80s genre filmmaking.
Nevertheless, there is something about ROTJ that seems more 80s than Empire, and I've never been able to pinpoint exactly why that is. It definitely looks more like a Spielberg production. Everything is brighter than in the first two. Even Vader looks glossy. Still, I don't know if that's all there is to it.
I agree the "problems" did begin with Jedi. However, I believe Lucas handled them to the best of his abilities while under inconceivable pressure at the time. All things considered, we got about the best ROTJ that Lucas was capable of delivering.
I saw ROTJ on opening night and loved it! But even as an 11 year old I thought the Endor scenes looked like a TV movie. And that the second Death Star (despite how cool it looked in its under construction stage) demonstrated a lack of new ideas. As for the Ewoks, I loved them then and I'm still down with them today.
The original era of SW ended with the publication of Heir To The Empire. Indeed, that was the birth of the "Fandom Menace."
@@mperezmcfinn2511 Because principle photography on Empire wrapped in March of 1979; more than a year before release. It is 100% a 70s film imo, a lot of films from the year 1980 feel the same (see: The Shining).
I've never understood the criticism of the Second Death Star. It was the "ultimate weapon" so why wouldn't they build another? This time bigger and without weaknesses? If you invented a nuke and the enemy destroyed it, wouldn't you hurry to build another?? With a Death Star who could ever oppose the Emperor?
To me, E.T. in 1982 was sorta the first "80s movie" along with Poltergeist. It could be argued that Raiders of the Lost Ark was the first (?)
I think you're correct about the lighting and color of ROTJ (along with its sentimental and optimistic energy) that makes it so iconic of the 1980s.
@@RadRat1978Empire has a certain 70s sheen to it that's more akin to something like The Black Hole or Buck Rogers than Jedi. It's the pacing that makes it feel more conventionally 80s.
Whatever was left of 70s style "slow burn" in adventure movies was extinguished by Raiders exactly one year later.
That's a good point. And I understood that when I got older. I think that criticism is rooted in the unrealistic expectations set by Empire. After that, every next Star Wars movie had to raise the stakes. Jedi did that to some degree by showing the power of the Emperor.
However, the second Death Star was just the first Death Star but more of it.
At the very least it should have had a different design. Still, just because it's the ultimate weapon doesn't mean that
it poses the ultimate threat.
There were other ways to raise the stakes. But considering Lucas wanted to wrap it up, that was probably the most convenient option. A third movie with another cliffhanger might have been too much for mainstream audiences at the time.
To me Return of the Jedi is a great movie.
"Refinement and defining of personal taste" is the most succinct way I have ever heard someone articulate what fascinates me as both a consumer and producer of art. Thank you for putting that into words for me, you've hit the nail on the head with that as you also completely mimic my own opinions I've always wanted to express about this franchise. SW77 and Empire ARE Star Wars, everything else is a take on it and I enjoy bits and bobs of all the takes but none like those two. I feel "seen" for probably the first time in the world of online pop culture takes, ya know? You've got a new subscriber and repeat viewer. Thank you SO MUCH for this video.
Hey that's what I love to hear. I'm glad you feel seen and I hope I can continue talk about art and media consumption in an interesting way :)
Personally, I consider it the second best movie
oooo interesting, what's your number 1?
Even as a child, I remember just waiting for it to cut back to scenes in the throne room. Because we’ve seen pilots attack the Death Star before and honestly the Ewok battle was never my favourite part of the movie.
the film is definitely riding on the wave of everyone's love for Luke Skywalker and lightsabers
@@Fizz.mp4 I’m sort of thankful of the technological limitations of the times that movie was made though. Otherwise there’d be like fifty lightsabers. The emperor would have one and so would Yoda and they’d be jumping, spinning and flipping in the air. A lightsaber is as cool like slow-motion or an explosion is, the more of them there are, the less special and exciting they become.
Oh god if Lucas could have made all three of those films a bloated nightmare of lightsabers and starships I fully believe he would've. it was a perfect storm of time, technology, control, and people that made the original trilogy and if even one piece of that needle was shifted the movies would have been completely different.
@@Fizz.mp4 yes ,, as Aliens & 2001:a space odyssey showed .., we were in a post dystopia,, ships are lived in , police state galaxy ,,. like any 1977/ 1980/ 1983 Bubblegum starwrs card collector,,, except just 1 yoda in his bed ,oh cried for ages ,,we knew what key parts to expect ,, space castle dungeon neon pub service station,,lol.. a post Nixon ~Apocalypse Now movie alway has air/space attack,, as well as flanking mellichia the secret rebel spies as cleaners of the death star , we knew the ewok ground assaul, i cry 7 times still to all those scenes now at 60.. the A~wing colliding with the star destroyer ,, han& liea caught ,, luke down low, scared ,hidden,,, so many emotions with minemilist scenes...... then C3PO R2D2 Asurrender .. but then the orchestral battle music begins,many tears of joy ,but sadness as Annaki feels emotions ,, there ae so many times when i can watch luke say . NEVER , & i cry endlessly,, just from the emotions,,,
In 1983 we had only seen pilots attack the Death Star once before and it was 6 years prior. Complaining about some of the most innovative practical special effects put to film at the time is really just exposing how jaded you are now. It isn't a result of the film over doing it.
he didn't scream "no"
👀 didn't he?
@@Fizz.mp4 Special Edition revisionist nonsense. Watch the theatrical editions if you can, they're out there!
@@mwoodlarks3121 Everyone was making a big deal about the "Han shot first" change, but this was much more egregious to me of all the SE revisions.
I was able to find a copy of the theatrical version of A New Hope fairly easy but I've never been able to find a version of Return of the Jedi that isn't a hundred dollar VHS
For me the "Han shot first" change is more egregious because you see his neck digitally snap to dodge the laser rather than just an added voice over line. If no one told me I wouldn't think Darth Vader yelling "no" was a new addition but anyone can tell Han Solo did not originally slam his head to the side to dodge Greedo
It’s not too hard to keep track of 3 different fights going on. But sure, Return of the Jedi was when Star Wars began down the path of being more goofy and absurd, part of it annoys me, but I enjoyed it as a kid despite the Ewoks and eventually Jar Jar Binks when the prequels came out. If you think that’s bad, you should watch the two Ewok made-for-TV movies. Doesn’t even seem like Star Wars at all, more typical 1980’s fantasy adventure film, just with Ewoks in it.
I feel obliged to check out the ewok adventure movies at some point but honestly I've been avoiding any 80's tv Star Wars stuff after watching the Holiday Special
Sorry but there’s no way all these characters are seeing the destruction from Starkiller Base when they’re in entirely different systems.
I agree it's not realistic but to me Star Wars doesn't need to be. It's a saga about space wizards with laser swords fighting robots with planet killing weapons... I'm okay with fudging the distance of space to make the story more dramatic and epic
Too bad it did neither! ; D
The tone had changed, it was like the last two Black Sabbath records with Ozzy, it was good in parts but you could tell the magic wasn't the same
Looking at behind the scenes materials it seems like the loss of magic you're talking about came from a tiredness after working on the two episodes before and then immediately jumping into Jedi. A lot of the visual effects artists especially seemed hard pressed with the films intense working schedule and a few even quit lucasfilm and ILM after production.
@@Fizz.mp4 yeah that's for sure, and I think Lucas wanted financial security for the rest of his life , and by selling ewok toys he knew he would make a king's Ransom, and that compromised the story, wookies would have been believable, it's a line in the sand that's when they jumped the shark
Let Me Debunk the cricticims you have. I already know because all of the criticism are predictable and unoriginal:
1. The Second Death Star is a Rehash and Unrealistic-DEBUNKED:
No, Return of the Jedi is not a repeat of A New Hope. This isn't like Taken 2 and Taken 3 copying the plot of Taken 1 or the overrated shitty Toy Story 2 & 3 copying the plot of Toy Story 1. Key differences include the second Death Star being under construction, creating a different tactical scenario for the Rebels. The design is cooler and more menacing. The mission in Return of the Jedi involves both destroying the shield generator on Endor and the Death Star, whereas in A New Hope, it was just about the Death Star. The Imperials were prepared in Return of the Jedi, unlike being caught off guard in A New Hope. The final battle involves a multi-stage plan with ground and space battles, not just a single trench run. Comparisons to historical wars and rebuilding after attacks, like the World Trade Center post-9/11, show the realism in the concept of rebuilding and improving a powerful weapon.
2. Luke Skywalker's Plan to Rescue Han Solo is Convoluted-DEBUNKED:
Luke strategically places allies and creates backup plans to divide Jabba’s attention, ultimately rescuing Han, eliminating Jabba, and freeing prisoners. The Rebel Alliance was too occupied with the war to assist, justifying the plan’s complexity.
3. Han Solo Is Out of Character-DEBUNKED:
Han’s experience in carbonite adds realism, transitioning him from a rogue to a leader in the Rebel Alliance. His relationship with Leia deepens, showing his emotional growth while retaining his usual chuckle-headed nature, as seen in earlier films. His character isn't overacting like General Hux in the sequels.
4. Luke and Leia Being Siblings is a Plot Hole-DEBUNKED:
Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher never had strong romantic chemistry, and Leia’s kisses were never romantic, especially the one in The Empire Strikes Back meant to provoke Han. The revelation ties into themes of family and destiny, enriching the characters' connections to Anakin. Luke and Leia are clearly embarrassed after discovering they’re siblings, and Leia telling Han about it is playful, not incestuous.
5. Return of the Jedi is Tonally Inconsistent and Too Lighthearted-DEBUNKED:
The film combines the lighthearted tone of A New Hope with the dark tone of The Empire Strikes Back effectively. Unlike movies like Haunted Mansion (2003), the overrated shitty Cabin In The Woods (2012), Spider-Man 3 (2007), The Not-So Amazing Spider-Man 2 (2014), the overrated shitty Toy Story 3 (2010), the overrated shitty Avengers: Infinity War (2018), and the overrated shitty Avengers: Endgame (2019), Return of The Jedi knows when to be lighthearted and when to be dark.
The unaltered version of Return of The Jedi with the song Lapti Neck is pretty dark and eerie, reminiscent of a nightclub with female characters wearing risqué outfits and dancing erotically.
Jabba’s performer getting eaten alive by Jabba’s rancor is dark and far from being kid friendly.
Salacious B. Crumb is creepy and adds an eerie element to the film.
The Ewoks, whether you like them or not, kill people and will fuck you up (Trust me. We’ll get to that).
6. Return of the Jedi is Uneventful-DEBUNKED:
Return of the Jedi is the most eventful and action-packed of the original trilogy, with a daring rescue, simultaneous battles, and a climactic duel. Luke’s transition to Jedi Master adds depth, and the climax's coordinated efforts create a complex scenario.
7. Boba Fett’s Death is Lame-DEBUNKED:
Boba Fett's chaotic death emphasizes the unpredictability of combat. He served his purpose in Empire Strikes Back and wasn’t a primary antagonist in Return of the Jedi. His accidental death is more creative than others, like Jango Fett’s in Attack of the Clones.
8. Darth Vader’s Redemption is Rushed, and the Emperor’s Downfall is a Plot Hole-DEBUNKED:
Vader’s internal conflict is evident throughout Return of the Jedi. Luke’s appeal to Anakin’s goodness impacts Vader, leading to his betrayal of Palpatine. The Emperor’s overconfidence is his critical flaw, leading to his downfall.
9. Leia’s Slave Outfit is Problematic-DEBUNKED:
Carrie Fisher herself wanted the outfit. Jabba’s treatment of Leia highlights his role as a perverted villain, and Leia’s triumph in killing him emphasizes her strength.
@@MovieEnforcerwhat do you just send out your little manifesto to anyone you disagree with? I know I ain't the first guy you said that too, how predictable and unoriginal is that? You want to put not only words but paragraphs in my mouth and then give me a break, I like the movie I just said it was watered down and wookies would have been better,,,,, Lucas made a cash grab with the ewoks
@@MovieEnforcer, I agree with most of what's here but would posite that points 2 and 7, Luke's plan being convoluted and Fett's death being cheap, tend to be accurately described/felt by audiences due to the way they were presented in the final film. The issue with Luke's plan is that it feels like it is propelled by contrivance, mostly how jaba decides that the droids are to be kept alive and further that R2-D2 would work the barge and not in the palace. There's no reason for the audience to beleive that Jabba wouldn't scrap these inorganic beings, sell them off, or prescribe them duties that would place them outside of Luke's grasp during the rescue. It's not clear when, where, or how luke planned the actual climax of the rescue operation to occur and this is reinforced by the fact that he was not prepared to face the rancor and was taken by surprise. Overall, Luke's plan seemed very impromptu and thus worked due to plot contrivance. We would have had to seen a more concrete operation in order to beleive there was any forethought put in, say giving Lea a poison or holdout weapon to assassinate jaba (this assuming Jabba decides to make Lea his personal slave and not imprison her elsewhere, the only reason you can argue it was logical to assume this would occur is because of how jabba is portrayed to be a lustful figure in the first scenes) or by giving Lando something concrete to accomplish instead of waiting around to be present for the escape attempt. I did however appreciate the grimy atmosphere of Jabba's palace in the original cut far more than what us presented in the subsequent versions.
Next, Fetts death, while sporadic and surely subversive of fan expectations, was executed in a less dramatic and more slapstick fashion. The choreography of the scene and the fact that boba dies due to a jetpack thruster malfunction after blind han swings a pole sporadically is what makes the death feel more cheap and less so brutal or unforgiving. If boba had died to something like friendly fire or a stray shot to the head, collapsing before our heroes as they rushed to fend off the rest of the assailants on the skiff in the heat of the sporadic escape attempt, it would have lent itself to the interpretation that fett suffered a gritty and cold death. Because of the presentation it feels that fetts death was more so played for laughs or was just executed incompitently.
I'd also like to add that the could have been received as legitimate threats to the empire on endor if their combat scenes were better choreographed to display their cunning and ruthlessness in combat on their home turf. I understand that we probably couldn't have gotten brutal violence but we clearly could have seen a more cincerted and sussinct fighting style and tactics from the ewoks opposed to the spontaneous free for all in the begining of the fight. To the credit of the film, the scenes which sold the brutality of the fight were the ones where we saw the ewoks employ logs effectively against the ATSTs and where the ewoks were shown to be no match for direct confrontation with vehicles.
I also like that Toy story 2 take because I've never considered it to be superior or even comparable in execution to toy story 1 bc imo it seems like woody re-learns the moral from the first film just in less compelling environments and drama. It doesent seem like buzz or any of the accompanying cast received any development so I was always left to wonder what the point of the story was. Pixar seemed to find themselves with a similar problem in the cars franchise.
Your issue with Han Solo's character not following his established tendencies in the first 2 films ignores one very big issue: real life. Harrison Ford wasn't even sure if he was going to do Return of the Jedi. He wasn't under contract until a few months before shooting and was in high demand after Raiders of the Lost Ark. It's quite possible that his role was diminished simply because they had already planned for him to not be flying the Falcon. I sort of agree that Boba Fett's death was pretty silly, but in Raiders when Ford just shoots the guy with the saber, it got a huge laugh. Solo's character was always the one to provide humor to the trilogy. So this might have just been a bit of a miss, but nothing that weakens him as a character. His role in the battle on Endor was definitely a supporting one and could have easily been flipped with Lando's role in the Falcon. But as many have said before, we've already seen Solo flying into the Death Star and blowing it up, so using Lando was slightly different, and only a few minutes of the film. I think a lot of these types of criticisms are a bit too harsh because the 3rd film is just a culmination of all the lore that was presented in the first 2 films. Complaining that it has continuity doesn't really make sense to me.
A movie is a movie, judging by what happened in real life doesn't take it a way from the issue, is just an excuse.
You can’t axe return of the jedi. wtf. That’s some hardcore Star Wars negativity.
I don't wanna but sometimes it feels like I gotta
@@Fizz.mp4 I get it. But I don’t wanna get it.
Such precise points. I feel this movie are 2 different things within one another. One is a grueling dark movie about attornment and redemption, and the other is a obnoxious toy ad made for small children. The fact that you are watching the sheer garbage that is the Special Edition surely didnt help.
Of course ewoks shouldn't exist, they were supposed to be wookies.
well put. possibily co-incidental that ROTJ is where Gary Kurtz got off because he didn't want to do "another attack-the-death-star movie"
Thank you. Its possible even with Gary Kurtz the franchise could have still gone in the same direction but I truly think producers like that leaving show a trend of Lucas filling his production with yes men that tended to not give the same level of conflict and push back on ideas that made the original two movies work super well.
True, Kurtz didn't work on Jedi. But..he was fired from the job he didn't resign. His collaboration with George was what made Empire and Star Wars so iconic. Without him, we have Ewoks, Jar jar, and porgs...we have lost. lol
@CC-dw9ch I wouldn't say those are creative dead ends. They needed to be implemented better. If the Ewoks were more like the Vietcong and just as ruthless. If we got Darth Jar Jar, that would've fixed him, but George got nervous for being called racist and he changed it. We aren't lost. Just bad storytelling on George's part.
@@Fizz.mp4 Not true, Lucas never filled his staff with yes-men.
Yes - and the original story called for Han to be killed near the final act. It was to be a more mature like ending, with although the rebels won - it was at a cost, and Leia was left in charge and Luke walked off into the sunset. However, after Raiders - Lucas wanted a more action packed film - and that is when the disagreements with Gary Kurtz began. I also think their relationship was strained because of the production problems with Empire(and it going overbudget).
Remember being 5 years old watchng this on VHS Special Edition all the time when Episode 1 was about to come out
Welcome to 1983.
I saw Star Wars at a Drive-in in 1978 and loved it - I was six years old. Saw "Empire" in 1980 and was obsessed by Star Wars. Was given the "Return of the Jedi" storybook for my birthday, before going to see the movie in 1983 and.. well it was okay. A really good looking movie.. but no it did not satisfy the 12 year-old who played with the action figures and made his own sequel where Vader was made to pay for turning his back on the Jedi order.
But it also made me accept that this thing didn't belong to me. I didn't love the prequal trilogy, but accepted it. I'm actually loving all the Disney+ stuff, because they are just like me, playing with action figures for real.
Awe, I love that. that's huge being able to recognize Star Wars isn't just for you especially way back before the prequels turned everyone into opinion machines, but I agree I don't think the new Disney+ stuff is as harmful as everyone says and for the most part it feels in keeping with the tone and imagination of Star Wars
I loved Return of the Jedi as a child, when I got to about 17, I started realizing the movie wasn't really all that great.
These are getting increasingly better as you go! Very well thought-out analysis; so succinctly expressed, and I love that you brought up the concept of the hero's journey materialized by Joseph Campbell. I can't wait for you to cover the prequels!
I'm glad you thought so :) I'm worried they're getting repetitive but simultaneously too brisk in my actually explaining these ideas like Joseph Campbell and how much George Lucas has claimed to be influenced by it. I do have a lot to say about the prequels but I feel like I need a break from just looking and thinking and writing and editing Star Wars stuff
The problem started when George Lucas completely re did the Star Wars and created the special editions.
What problem?
The issue with Return of the Jedi is that it's two movies mashed into one. I prefer the other two. I'll rewatch it, debate it, but never consider it great. It is at best 'good'.
Comparing it to modern Star Wars is pointless, because they are entirely different entities. I can't myself because I haven't watched them. Not for any political/ideological reason, I just didn't think Disney could do a good job, and from what I've heard this seems to be the case.
Back in the day I used to be embarrassed to say it was my favourite. Though I unapologetically love it now.
Many good points but where I disagree is that I feel that the theme of return on Tatooine is inherent and Han doesn't participate in the final space battle because he's in love with Leia. Switched off from the sequels during the force awakens about halfway through and if I didn't them they don't exist, right?
Never thought about the compounding sequel problem nice take 1 min in.
Bingo! You hit the nail squarely on the head.
You weren't hard enough on Obi-Wan. "You were our last hope." "Yoda spoke of another." "The other he spoke of is the other hope, that also exists in addition to you."
true. He really becomes a sad sack trying to walk back everything he said from the previous two movies
@@Fizz.mp4 Oh come on you guys. Star Wars was obviously supposed to be a stand alone movie. It's success is what drove the addition of the next two and created these plot changes. Lucas was writing and rewriting the films on the fly.
Salacious Crumb has been one of my favourites since the mid 80's...
this dissertation will make a fine addition to my collection... 🙏🏻🙏🏻
glad you liked it :)
I love Rotj and think it’s a great movie. It has its problems but for 16 years it was the scapegoat where a lot of “criticisms” were levied at it, that could be levied at 4 and 5. It’s not as strong as those other two, but it’s not far off in quality. It’s a GREAT movie. Now I can’t defend the inconsistency in tone or the luke/ leia sibling thing. Rotj does have an inconsistent tone and I think if the Ewok stuff wasn’t as playful and was more urgent people would be more interested. The sibling thing I hate, but I’ve always felt like since George was editing things in and out he could’ve edited out the kiss in ESB. It would make things so much better. In summary Rotj is my favorite movie, and has its problems but it’s a great end to what I’d my favorite trilogy. Like the saving of Luke, Anakin revealed, victory celebration. Seeing the different planets. It’s the best movie ending ever in my opinion. Star Wars has always had problems, but what franchise doesn’t.
Debunking The Crictisims Made Against Return of The Jedi.
1. The Second Death Star is a Rehash and Unrealistic-DEBUNKED:
No, Return of the Jedi is not a repeat of A New Hope. This isn't like Taken 2 and Taken 3 copying the plot of Taken 1 or the overrated shitty Toy Story 2 & 3 copying the plot of Toy Story 1. Key differences include the second Death Star being under construction, creating a different tactical scenario for the Rebels. The design is cooler and more menacing. The mission in Return of the Jedi involves both destroying the shield generator on Endor and the Death Star, whereas in A New Hope, it was just about the Death Star. The Imperials were prepared in Return of the Jedi, unlike being caught off guard in A New Hope. The final battle involves a multi-stage plan with ground and space battles, not just a single trench run. Comparisons to historical wars and rebuilding after attacks, like the World Trade Center post-9/11, show the realism in the concept of rebuilding and improving a powerful weapon.
2. Luke Skywalker's Plan to Rescue Han Solo is Convoluted-DEBUNKED:
Luke strategically places allies and creates backup plans to divide Jabba’s attention, ultimately rescuing Han, eliminating Jabba, and freeing prisoners. The Rebel Alliance was too occupied with the war to assist, justifying the plan’s complexity.
3. Han Solo Is Out of Character-DEBUNKED:
Han’s experience in carbonite adds realism, transitioning him from a rogue to a leader in the Rebel Alliance. His relationship with Leia deepens, showing his emotional growth while retaining his usual chuckle-headed nature, as seen in earlier films. His character isn't overacting like General Hux in the sequels.
4. Luke and Leia Being Siblings is a Plot Hole-DEBUNKED:
Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher never had strong romantic chemistry, and Leia’s kisses were never romantic, especially the one in The Empire Strikes Back meant to provoke Han. The revelation ties into themes of family and destiny, enriching the characters' connections to Anakin. Luke and Leia are clearly embarrassed after discovering they’re siblings, and Leia telling Han about it is playful, not incestuous.
5. Return of the Jedi is Tonally Inconsistent and Too Lighthearted-DEBUNKED:
The film combines the lighthearted tone of A New Hope with the dark tone of The Empire Strikes Back effectively. Unlike movies like Haunted Mansion (2003), the overrated shitty Cabin In The Woods (2012), Spider-Man 3 (2007), The Not-So Amazing Spider-Man 2 (2014), the overrated shitty Toy Story 3 (2010), the overrated shitty Avengers: Infinity War (2018), and the overrated shitty Avengers: Endgame (2019), Return of The Jedi knows when to be lighthearted and when to be dark.
The unaltered version of Return of The Jedi with the song Lapti Neck is pretty dark and eerie, reminiscent of a nightclub with female characters wearing risqué outfits and dancing erotically.
Jabba’s performer getting eaten alive by Jabba’s rancor is dark and far from being kid friendly.
Salacious B. Crumb is creepy and adds an eerie element to the film.
The Ewoks, whether you like them or not, kill people and will fuck you up.
6. Return of the Jedi is Uneventful DEBUNKED:
Return of the Jedi is one of the most eventful and action-packed films in the Star Wars franchise. The film opens with a daring rescue mission at Jabba’s palace, followed by the battle on the sail barge. The climax features a simultaneous three-pronged battle, including the fight on Endor, the space battle, and the lightsaber duel between Luke and Vader. These events showcase the characters’ growth, especially Luke’s transition from Jedi Knight to Jedi Master. The film’s action and character arcs are far from uneventful, offering a satisfying conclusion to the trilogy.
7. Boba Fett’s Death Is Lame DEBUNKED:
Boba Fett’s death occurs in chaotic combat, highlighting the unpredictability of battle. His accidental death by jetpack malfunction is more creative than other character deaths, such as Jango Fett’s cliché demise in Attack of the Clones. Boba Fett had already served his purpose in capturing Han Solo, and his death in Return of the Jedi underscores the chaotic nature of the battle.
8. Darth Vader’s Redemption Is Rushed & Emperor’s Lack of Foresight DEBUNKED:
Vader’s internal conflict throughout Return of the Jedi shows his struggle between loyalty to the Emperor and his desire to be with his son, Luke. Luke’s appeal to Anakin’s goodness influences Vader’s decision to betray the Emperor and save Luke. The Emperor’s overconfidence and underestimation of Luke’s influence on Vader are his critical flaws, leading to his downfall.
9. Leia’s Slave Outfit Is Problematic & Degrades Her Character DEBUNKED:
Leia’s slave outfit was Carrie Fisher’s idea, highlighting Jabba’s role as a perverted villain. Leia’s triumph in killing Jabba emphasizes her strength and independence, showing she remains a strong and capable character despite the outfit.
10. Endor Is an Uninspired Planet DEBUNKED:
Endor’s forest environment contrasts with the Empire’s mechanical nature, symbolizing the natural world overcoming technological tyranny. The planet allows for the Ewoks’ guerrilla warfare tactics, highlighting the theme of underdogs defeating a more powerful force. Endor’s simplicity grounds the fantastical elements of the saga in a relatable environment, making the conflict more accessible.
11. Too Much Going On During the Climax DEBUNKED:
The three-part climax (the battle on Endor, the space battle, and Luke vs. Vader) is masterfully interwoven, maintaining tension and excitement. Each thread complements the others, enhancing the stakes. The pacing keeps viewers engaged without overwhelming them, creating a dynamic and thrilling conclusion that ties all plot threads together.
12. Han and Leia’s Romance Doesn’t Develop/Get Pushed Aside DEBUNKED:
While their romance was central in The Empire Strikes Back, Return of the Jedi shows their relationship maturing and deepening. Leia’s risk in saving Han from Jabba demonstrates her deep feelings. Their playful banter and moments of vulnerability show their bond growing stronger, providing closure to their character arcs.
13. Lucas Took Full Control, and Cracks Started to Show DEBUNKED:
This claim is incorrect. While George Lucas was the executive producer, Return of the Jedi was directed by Richard Marquand and written by Lawrence Kasdan. Lucas didn’t write or direct the film. The collaborative effort of these filmmakers, including contributions from Steven Spielberg and David Koepp, is responsible for the success of Return of the Jedi, not a sign of Lucas’s alleged overreach.
14. Going Back to Tatooine Is Repetitive DEBUNKED:
Returning to Tatooine is a logical continuation of the story set up in The Empire Strikes Back. Han was taken to Jabba the Hutt, who lives on Tatooine, making the location essential for the plot. Return of the Jedi portrays Tatooine differently, with new locations like Jabba’s Palace and the Sarlacc Pit, adding fresh elements to the familiar setting. This return also serves as a full-circle moment, resolving key plot points.
15. Luke’s Training Is Underutilized & Yoda’s Death Is Rushed DEBUNKED:
Luke’s return to Dagobah focuses on emotional and spiritual preparation rather than physical training. Yoda and Obi-Wan emphasize that Luke’s final test is to confront Vader, not with aggression, but to face the darkness within himself and the galaxy. Yoda’s death is not rushed but serves as a poignant moment in the story, highlighting the passage of time and marking Luke’s transition to the last Jedi Knight.
16. Ewoks Are Childish/Unrealistic & Wookies Should’ve Been Used Instead DEBUNKED:
Ah yes, the best for last. I love the Ewoks with no remorse and I’m proud Ewok defender. I loved them as a kid, and I love them even more as an adult. Fuck Jar Jar Binks, fuck Rose Tico (The characters not the actors) and fuck Dory from Finding Nemo (2003) (Yep, I went there)! I hated Jar Jar Binks and Dory as a kid, and I still hate them as an adult but the less about those two the better. The Ewoks are often misunderstood as mere cute creatures, but they are far more formidable. When they capture Luke, Han, C-3P0, and R2-D2, they intend to kill them, showcasing their dangerous nature. Like Wolverines and Honey Badgers, Ewoks may appear harmless, but they are fierce and deadly, making them formidable allies.
Originally, George Lucas wanted Return of the Jedi to take place on Kashyyyk with Wookiees instead of Endor with Ewoks. Steven Spielberg and David Koepp, who were initially involved in the project, along with Lawrence Kasdan, proposed using Ewoks instead, drawing a parallel to the Vietcong during the Vietnam War-small, underestimated forces defeating a technologically superior enemy through courage and ingenuity. Budget constraints also played a role in the decision to use Ewoks over Wookiees. Lucas was initially reluctant but was eventually convinced.
The Ewoks' victory over the Empire was not solely due to their efforts but was part of a combined effort with the Rebels. The Ewoks provided critical local support, additional manpower, and knowledge of the terrain, which allowed the Rebel strike team to focus on their mission to destroy the shield generator. The Empire's underestimation of the Ewoks, due to their primitive technology and small size, led to their downfall. If Wookiees had been used, the Empire would have likely deployed a stronger force, as they took Wookiees more seriously due to their known combat abilities.
This concept is also illustrated in the Star Wars: The Force Unleashed video game and A New Hope, where the Empire's serious treatment of Wookiees is evident.
This is an excellent collection of debunkings. I don't agree with all of #5 because some of those movies are outstanding, (especially Cabin in the Woods) but as for the Star Wars related takes, they are pretty much on the nose. The OP's takes are also based on the Special Editions rather than the original films which misguides his opinions. By the mid 90's, Lucas was busy destroying the wonderful trilogy he has already created.
@@MikeSchmidt969 Exactly. He probably didn't even do his homework like we do.
Just saying "nu uh" doesn't debunk anything, I can agree with some but most of his points are still right, Luke and Leia were clearly never siblings originally, ewoks are annoying and childish, han solo is useless, the third death star pointless rehash and the movie is filled with children friendly material, all of this is just objective, empirical and observable truth to anyone who watches these movies back to back and doesn't have a veil over their eyes. If you liked it as a child and still defends it because of it, you just proof him right. Lucas also had almost complete control of the movie and basically directed it himself, even if uncredited, look it up. Most of the worst of this movie is also consequence of his greed and desire to make everything into a damn toy.
Huzzah! A man of quality. Toy Story 3 wasn't necessary.
Im not reading all that shit
Man it's doubtful that modern Star Wars creators are inspired by anything at all 😂
Returning to Tatooine makes sense from a Luke centric perspective for the reasons you outlined, but having Jaba's palace being on that planet ruins something about Han's story. If you are hiding from somebody, you don't do so in their back yard. Jaba's palace being on Tatooine means that Luke and Ben would logically never have met Han.
I completely agree. makes the universe way smaller than it should be and makes me think about the logic of the other movies
I take it you've never heard the saying, "the best spot to hide is sometimes the most obvious one."?
I learned a long time ago that it's absolutely true. People expect you to follow the rules and behave when you are around others, especially authority figures, so they don't expect you to do something they would disapprove of. So it makes it easy as long as it's not obvious to do things in front of them without them noticing.
@Fizz.mp4 Even as a child, I thought it was strange that Tatooine was Jabba's base of operations. His presence alone would be enough to make it the most heavily scrutinized backwater planet in the outer rim.
So, probably not a great choice for a famous Jedi fugitive to hide out in his Jedi robes or stash a force sensitive kid with the last name Skywalker.
Unless, Jabba's a minor regional player. Like a big fish in a small pond. But that doesn't seem to be the case. The fact that he can afford to keep bounty hunters like Boba Fett on speed dial proves he's a high roller.
That never even phased me at all. People hide out from their problems on Earth and do so simply by leaving one country for another. Do we even know where on Tatooine Jabba's palace is in relation to Mos Eisley? Han was trying to find work, and as a smuggler, Mos Eisley might have been the best place. Remember, the scene with Jabba at the Millennium Falcon was cut from the original movie. Some of these "issues" were created when Lucas stuck his big old edit back in there.
@@MikeSchmidt969 Han wasn't in hiding from Jabba he was just avoiding him until he could earn enough to pay him back. Jabba was expecting payment when Han came back from Alderaan.
He didn't put a bounty on Han until Han quit showing up for work.
To me as the generation who grew up with prequel trilogy OT storyline is slow and boring but understood at the scale and format used by filmaker during 70s. But the CGI and technology used is far ahead advanced. Even it dont need to remastered for special edition but I like the change George Lucas make for Anakin's Force Ghost he put Hayden Christensen after the PT is completed. I hate edition he make Emperor's hologram projector in episode 5. Original it's not Palpatine after he reveal himself as Darth Sidious from episode 3.
Episode 5 is the bestest OT to me. Prequel is have lack and plot hole but the score music theme especially Duel Of The Fates, Anakin's fall in dark side scene and Battle Of The Heroes is very epic and great. Episode III is the bestest ever film in SW history franchise. But add the new thing something never mentioned in OT like the chosen one prophecy and dark side of the Force can cheat death and Darth Plagueis that is drastically changed the entire trilogies. The Clone Wars animation fixing and explained all question from film except for Darth Plagueis. We see there is witches and magic too. And Clone Army is not Stormtrooper as we seen in OT. The Bad Batch explains that. The best trilogy is the original. Prequel is the bestest. To me I more love sequel trilogy because storyline is strong, deeper and it linked from original and prequel trilogy. I want to know where the origins of Jedi and Sith came from and how the Force could be found and be used by few people through their own method. Anakin Skywalker still is the chosen one. It's not breaking canon.
Stop watching an eight minute mark. You can’t keep saying how you love return of the Jedi and then bash stuff that is beyond your pay grade.
Maybe you read a book on storytelling written by someone that never told the completed story.
The first three really the first six movies tell a story and are amazing for a lot of reasons. The real critics 20 something years ago didn’t like Hayden’s portrayal of Anakin. People can criticize anything they want, but a true fan would not criticize any of the Lucas movies.
There has to be 50 to 100,000,000 Star Wars fans that speak English alone. More than half of them like a movie or show/ story it’s a story worth telling.
75% of the Disney crap is useless to real fans. Disney doesn’t spend the time and effort into telling Star Wars stories. They also don’t follow George’s layout / outline / rules
Ah yes, liking something is when you can’t critique it
@@taylorswan8587 Just as long as you're critiquing the real thing. This guy is critiquing the Special Editions which are not the same as the original releases (available on 4K77 website if you're interested). If you're going to say things "went wrong starting with" a specific movie, then you kind of need to be critiquing that version of the movie, and not the rehashed edited version while drawing conclusions based on elements that weren't there in the first place.
It's not called being a "true fan" it's called a "fanboy" and is the most childish and pathetic behaviour any grown adult can have when dealing with media criticism.
How many 3rd movies in a Trilogy ever live up to the first 2 or the original? Now i’m not counting Lord of the Rings as that was a planned Trilogy taken from source material.
Superman 3 sucked. Alien 3 was divisive and still divisive today. Back to the Future 3 was not well received in 1990 as it felt like they were retreading the plot again. XMen The Last Stand and Spiderman 3 were not well received after both sequels did better than the originals. The Matrix Reloaded and Revolution were so hated at the time, that is the king of backlash. Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade was actually received well bur the movie resembles Raiders of the Lost Ark too much. The Dark Knight Rises was not well received. I think a movie Trilogy usually runs out of steam by the 3rd movie unless you have a grand plan from the beginning. Return of the Jedi is no different.
Yes
I really like Return of the Jedi. I certainly wouldn't call it my favorite film of the original set. But I have sometimes considered it better than Empire. But your assessment about the big fights at the end, and this realization of the four individual stories happening at the wrapping up of Episode 1 is absolutely correct. There's too much going on. I guess I've always felt that, but you pointing that out made me realize Yeah, there's too much going on. I didn't think I was going to care about your essay. But it was actually very thought-provoking. And a few good thought experiments in the mix.
Yea :) That's the best I can hope for. I'm glad you found it engaging. Honestly that's the biggest thing I want my videos to do; have people think a little different and more indepth about the media they enjoy. When I first saw the film I think expected to like Return of the Jedi the best because Jabba's Palace is such a good opening
Well articulated essay.
Also, my mate's dog looks EXACTLY like Salacious B. Crumb. Similar attitude too.
ooooo is the dog a little weazly fella?
Man I just watched this and yeah I don’t know it just feels completely different than the first two and it’s jarring. The film is okay and I think it has some of the best moments in the series. Fuck the Ewoks 🫶
my sentiments almost exactly. it's the start of a vibe shift without completely being so different
@@Fizz.mp4 what’s so crazy is that up until my most recent rewatch I always remember it being my favorite 😂
My favorite of the original three films is Return of the Jedi… but the original pre “special edition” version. The change to the Jabba’s palace sequence with the musical number and the cleaner look turn it into something more like the show that run every half hour at a theme park and not the dark and dangerous and dirty scum filled crime lord lair it feels like in the original. The whole tone of the scene changes, which makes Jabba seem a lot less dangerous and disgusting. By the way I was born in 1985, so it’s not like I was there on opening day and wanna be all old man curmudgeon about this, even as a maybe 10 year old kid when the special editions came out, I was pissed at the changes. And every few years he kept going back and making it worse and worse and worse….
You have studied these films well. The force is strong in you. And I believe you, the problems did begin with ROTJ. But I confess - I like the Ewoks for their contribution to the Star Wars table, the little guys can help win big battles. That is empowering. Was the three way offensive at the close of ROTJ too much? I thought it just right, and the film's greatest contribution to cinema, maybe the finest climax to any action adventure film. I agree there is a cartoonish quality to the first half, like a story board brought to life; and the Endor section does digress. But then, C3PO is a 'god' was great. And, compared to the films that came after...this was a masterwork. But how can you not love Rogue One. The best ever sequel prequel ('seqpreq', offered freely without charge)
The best things in SW were in this movie: Jabba and all his weirdo minions, Ewoks, seeing Darth Vader without his mask...
Jabba's gang of freaks was always my favorite part as a kid and I can remember being a little sad when Luke and the gang just blew them up in the first chunk of the film
@@Fizz.mp4 Oh, yeah, so sad they all had to go, except Boba Fett, but even his escape was added later and I felt it changed his role too much. Plus he was the only one who didn't qualify as a freak.
I don't see how anyone from any generation can say they don't like ROTS. And lets not forget all the memes the PT gave the world
I like Revenge of the Sith and I enjoy all the meme's but I also don't think it's a great movie. It's fun but in my opinion Empire Strikes Back and A New Hope were more than fun.
I hold the opposite opinion than most people have. Empire is my least favorite from the OT and RotJ is my favorite. That's almost exclusively down to the massive space battle at the end. I don't really want to see the Jedi centric stuff in Star Wars. To me Jedi are the dullest part of the IP and it's gotten way worse after George sold it and it was bad enough in the prequels. I want to see spaceships shooting at each other, you know, like a war in the stars is, you could even say I like to see star wars. I'll admit the battle of Hoth was awesome and honestly I'd often stop watching it at that point.
There are a lot of things which make Empire better from a more objective point of view in regards to things like story, pacing, character development and so on, but that matters less to me than space ship make boom. That's not to say that a Star Wars film can get by on that alone. If it did I'd enjoy the sequel trilogy and I despise that abomination. What drew me to the franchise as a kid was the aesthetics of the ships and vehicles. They looked like they really existed and they a had design languages they stuck to. I'd rather be reading about the technical specifications of a Victory class Star Destroyer than the history of the Jedi order. The space battle of Endor is just fantastic and it's never been topped in film or television. It may never be since a good chunk of what made it so great is the fact they used models to create it. If CGI ever gets actually photorealistic someone may do better but for now even though they can restrict what type of shots you can get models are superior to even the best CGI.
There was so much effort to given every single model in the original trilogy. If you are a space battle guy I completely understand loving ROTJ. The shit is just so fun and energetic and I especially love the huge wall of the death star that they built to crash the ships into. I also definitely agree that the more they show of the jedis the lamer and lamer they get
Star Wars is dead after Vadar/Anakin killed the emperor . Everything after that movie is a mute point . I do not acknoloage them
*moot point
I love return of the jedi espessially because anakins redemption.
I was always a Star Wars fan. Last year I went and saw ROTJ in theater for the 40th anniversary, and, watching it quietly without my phone, I realized I was bored almost the whole time. On the other hand, I can watch episodes 4 and 5 anytime and be content. 🤷♂️
There are no problems with star wars it's fine everything is fine
You know, I use to think that people hating on Return of the Jedi was because of their anger, disappointment, and hatred towards the sequel movies that they are now actively beginning to disown their very love for Star Wars in general and act like Star Wars should've never happened in the first place.
Basically irony-poisioning; when a certain fanbase begins to crap on everything and anything that makes the franchise what it is and mostly pretend and say that said franchise should've never existed in the first place and that its very existence is a disgrace and should be iradicated from memeory. You then see a lot of horrible videos and posts of people being (fake) angry, yelling, and making garbage content on the internet that's just unwatchable to sit though.
A good example of this can be the Sonic The Hedgehog fanbase where Sonic fans have that same way of thinking. They hate the current 3D platforming games and say things like Sonic should've never existed, it was a terrible idea in the history of video games, or Sonic should've remained and died in the 90s with only the 2D side-scrolling games being considered the only thing that should exist from Sonic The Hedgehog.
They say all sound like stupid dip shits and don't take into consideration of what others might think of the things they are hating, or worse they feel the need to harass and attack others for not contending with the general consensus and try to tell everyone that they are wrong for liking something they hate.
To me, this is just utter BS and horrible immature behavior. It's people being on a whole other level of cruel and spoiled and just going out of their way to make a business on saying a lot of false things that aren't true about things that we enjoy. It's really sad and exhausting to look at.
But after watching this video, when looking not at the franchise's history, but more so on the history of the fanbase itself and their reception of the franchise's outputs, it's pretty clear to me that the Star Wars fans have always been problematic since day one. Nothing has changed since the release of A New Hope to release of the Phantom Menace. People always had something negative to say about any of the movies regardless of what era you grew up in.
One of Star Wars attributes was always about selling toys since the first movie in 1977, and people pretend like it wasn't the case. It's was only an issue in Return of the Jedi. Like what!?🤨
If people have a genuine problem with the ewoks, then in that logic, they should also have a problem with Chewbacca, Yoda, and Jabba The Hutt, or any non-human character that appears in the franchise and basically just have Star Wars just be about normal people who live and fight wars in space. Is that what you really want out of Star Wars!? You f***ing degenerate hypocrites!!
The fact that the original era also had its fair share of stinkers like the holiday special and (to some extent) the two ewok movies, and nobody wants to acknowledge their existence and "contributions" to the franchise and only talk about how superior the original trilogy minus episode 6 is just pure gatekeeping at its finest. A false narrative of around someone's success and failure at its finest.
Bottom line: I did only seem to really agree with the first part of the video. While I do respect your opinion on not liking episode 6, I found myself strongly disagreeing with every point made in this video because of everything I had just mentioned and that I love all six movies George Lucas made. I have zero problems with these movies and love them all equally.
Nowadays, whenever I see people criticize thses movies, it's sometimes made with the intent of antagonizing or labeling the creator as a bad person, nitpicking one minor aspect as an excuse to say an entire movie is trash, and harassing others for liking something that the haters did not.
This may be a rare unpopular opinion, but there are people who don't like episodes 4 and 5 either. Or they don't consider those movies to be their personal standard for what Star Wars is. It may sound unheard of, but those are real opinions from some of the voices within this fanbase. And even though it's rare, it's shouldn't be a reason to dismiss them as non-considerate.
Definitely. ROTJ is the beginning of decadence in Star Wars. The script hole made by Luke and Leia being siblings was in front of everyone before the special edition. "Somehow" Leia always knew Luke to be her brother but she still kissed him, right? Obi Wan said Anakin had left his lightsaber to Luke. Actually Anakin didn't know he had a son before the Battle of Yavin. This makes Obi Wan a liar and there is no "certain point of view" to excuse it. Not to mention the Second Death Star. It is said to be even more destructive than the First one in the introduction of the film but it cannot destroy anything else apart from the Mon Calamari cruisers. And what about the Endor "moon" which does not rotate around any planet? I could mention other things like the stupid plan to rescue Han Solo (unneeded sexualization of Carrie Fisher included) or the ewoks (Jar Jar's forerunners) but that's enough.
As far as taste in movies goes, I always liked Return of the Jedi. Return of the Jedi was a pretty decent finale to the Original Star Wars Trilogy and the absolute best parts of Return of the Jedi were the opening sequence on Tatoonie and the speeder bike chase scene on Endor. The third act of this film was a let down. The Ewoks vs. Imperial Troops scenes were silly, the special edition of Return of the Jedi was pretty awful, and the special edition change with Hayden Christensen being Anakin's force ghost was absolutely terrible.
I personally can't stand any of the Jabba's palace scenes. Just gives me the ick.
This!
For the purists of purists - Yoda was a "muppet show" problem!
Let alone Jabba's palace bunch and the ewoks...
I was very intrigued when I learned that most of Jabba's palace was other artists. I assumed growing up that every star wars puppet was a jim henson creation, they've always just had such a good quality to them.
@@Fizz.mp4 Good point! Frankly I didn't know.
Hey I had a realization last day.
I had the same reaction when I saw both Jabba and Darth Maul for the firts time lol.
Lucas knows how to make us react!
I'm old so I probably saw Jabba first in the TV trailer at the time ;-)
The prequels completely ruined it for me!
not really because well i mean the star wars hoilday speical happened after a new hope and yet somehow star wars recovered from that. and lets just be clear star wars recovered from the prequels too.
The first 3 movies in the 70s were great, the next three were good, but had some noticeable problems a casual viewer could spot, the last 3 movies are garbage, and unwatchable. Some of the TV series are good and some of the side story movies are good, but its hit and miss.
Return of the Jedi is the first Star Wars movie that wasn’t perfect, but it’s still one of the greatest threequels in movie history and a worthy conclusion to the original trilogy.
The real problems with Star Wars didn’t start until The Force Awakens.
for me the real problems start with Return of the Jedi because the real problems are things like returning to tatooine and reusing the death star
I can name several problems with the prequels as well, but I have to agree, the issues truly began with RotJ.
I disagree. Han was completely wrong in the film. In top of that he and Leia are shunted to the side where they don’t get any real character development. The reuse of the Death Star and Tatooine was kinda lame - part of Star Wars was about seeing new worlds. Instead we got to go to three places we’d been before.
Speaking of which, the return of Luke to complete his training was a giant wet fart. Nope, no new training or wisdom. Just go kill Darth Vader - the very thing we were telling you NOT to do last time only now with the knowledge that you’re killing your own parent.
No, Jedi was when Lucas took full control and the cracks started to show.
I agree with all of what @davidanderson4748 said. Lucas took control of the franchise and started spinning into a weird characterless clustered nightmare.
Yes.
Special Edition..
1hr 9mins exactly.
That first frame of film containing the first glimpse of that Ewok foot.
Stamping metaphorically onto the series, irrevocably altering the direction of the series forever.
Like putting vinegar onto ice cream.
It's still ice cream, but tastes of vinegar.
You must not have ever tried vanilla ice cream with balsamic vinegar. It's unbelievably delicious.
What if Star Wars was just straight forward? Luke is the boy, has a mentor, has an nemesis (Darth Vader). There is no "Father' issues...Leia is not his sister...the whole point of the trilogy is Luke defeating Vader and his Emperor...wouldn't that have been better? I think so.
I agree. Too many plot contrivances made the universe way to small with all the family stuff. I would have much preferred it continue to follow the basic hero's journey with more star wars creativity to fill out the universe.
@@Fizz.mp4 I wanted to ask you...ask a die hard Star Wars fan, how did the special editions affect you, esp. Return of the Jedi?
I was born too late and only ever owned the special editions growing up. I have only been able to track down the theatrical version of A New Hope. I don't think they affected me but I think they've affected the perception and true history of Star Wars and at the very least I believe all versions should be easily available in the highest quality possible. I was praying when Disney+ launched it would have every version but instead it launched with it's own slightly altered special editions.
@@Fizz.mp4 there are options on the web, especially something called 4k77, which is a wonderful original version of Star Wars. I also own copies of Empire and Jedi in original matter. I was very moved by your reference to 'polishing a diamond". I watched Star Wars a few months ago and had that very feeling. Screw Disney.
@@Fizz.mp4 Han shot first is the change that has the most/worst impact on story/ character development, because of how it robs han of his arc and (theoretically) undercuts the tension of wondering if he will have a change of heart.
But for me the worst change that does the most damage to the OG trilogy as a viewing experience is the re-inclusion of the Jabba scene in ANH. I saw Jedi in theatres when I was 7-8 years old. I had spend half a lifetime wondering, waiting, anticipating the build up to the reveal of the big bad crime boss jabba. He was dark, creepy, disturbing, gross - and a wonderful villain.
Future generations were robbed of the experience of seeing jabba as a menacing threat by introducing him first as a clownish bafoon that allows han to literally walk all over him with no negative consequences. There is an undercurrent of looming dread all through the rest of ANH and ESB - punctuated by the reminder when han is about to leave hoth because he has this price on his head and it's a really big deal. He lives every day in fear that some bounty hunter might show up and kill him or someone he cares about.
For me growing up with only the OG trilogy the ongoing threat of Jabba lurking in the shadows is part of what gave weight and tension to the whole story up until the moment leia chokes jabba out and we know that han and friends are free from this threat once and for all.
Adding jabba in ANH in a comical scene is the one special edition change that not only ruins the scene that it appears in, but damages the greatest number of other scenes in the trilogy.
Excuse me? You don't think Revenge of the Sith concluded the prequel trilogy in a satisfying way? I thought that movie did wonderful in that aspect. And how was Tattooine "forced" in that movie to give a conclusion? It wasn't since you had to have Luke be brought to his aunt and uncle to set up what we see in the original. I don't see anything "forced" about that dude. Tell me how the movie should have ended? Not that it couldn't end differently or anywhere else but that ending and setting was rather fitting for what we are to see next. Seriously, how dare you!
there is a lot of ways to look at these films and if for you seeing tatooine at the end of revenge of the sith feels like the perfect build into seeing luke on tatooine in a new hope then that's great but for me after Annakin gets his limbs cut off the film feels like it's just rushing towards the finale and moving all the pieces into place. We just flash cut so that everyone can see the emperor and darth vader are building the death star, leia's on alderran, lukes on tatooine, and oh just be sure to wipe one of the droids memories so he can't say anything about all the info he shouldn't have based on the next trilogy. The film feels like it forces the ideas and themes of the prequels into the mold of the original trilogy without trying to be it's own thing or find a satisfying way to show off it's own ideas; for the trilogy I would have preferred more moments of yoda and obi-wan sitting with their sadness, loneliness and failures as friends and mentors to annakin instead of young aunt and uncle lars staring at the suns. So for me for the film doesn't work well as a conclusion to it's trilogy or as an organic lead into the next one, but I'm also one guy with one opinnion and I don't want you to stop liking Revenge of the Sith and Star Wars because of my feelings
@@Fizz.mp4 I saw nothing rushed really but maybe the Empire ship and the death star being made, but I can see why we see those things in place. The movie did what it needed to do and ended how it needed to. It brought closure to those left behind who survived and was setting up the next successor to Anakin on a setting he'd be brought up in and where Obi-Wan would be to watch him and eventually meet him. Revenge of the Sith maintained being its own story while leading up to what we know and it did so at ease. You likely are just a prequel hater trying to find faults in the wrong places and boy does it not work. Trust me, you won't ever get me to hate this movie because I see the value in it, even if it could have been a bit better and had more moments of Anakin turning to the dark side at a slower pace instead of instant like the movie displayed. Ending with Luke and Leia not being with their families would have been ridiculous and left off as an offscreen event that feels like it was forgotten about so no, your ending is just a mess.
It’s the weakest of the originals, but it’s still pretty good. It would have been better if it were directed by someone with more connection to it. The backstory of the prequels actually improved the resonance of the movie.
As much as I love the original trilogy, I cannot deny that Return of the Jedi is indeed the weakest film in the series. Its few good moments are not enough to counter the big problems it has. Return of the Jedi is no doubt when the cracks in Star Wars began to show. These cracks would continue to widen in the prequels before the franchise completely broke apart in the sequels.
Preach!
The only things I liked about Return of the Jedi are Mark and Iain. Everything else is phoned in, rushed, or embellished with burp jokes and a hint of racism. It's not quite Phantom Menace bad but it's not good.
It's less that it's hard to follow three battles and more that my care is drawn in too many directions so that I really only pay attention when the Throne Room pops up but I absolutely agree it is not as obnoxious as Phantom Menace's four battles
@@Fizz.mp4I wouldn't mind that if there were stakes. But they had killed off every problematic character at this point (Yoda dying mid welcome back greeting was terrible, Leia being Luke's sister was terrible). The only characters in any real jeopardy are Luke, Lando and Wedge. I love Wedge but most people don't recognise him. The fast track redemption of Anakin for throwing an old man down a well is a weird message and if luke can survive such a fall with a few days training suddenly episode 9 isn't so weird.
Jedi is def where the wheels fall off for Star Wars. You can see the beginnings of what make the Prequels so horrendous, take root.
exactly. The film like the entire franchise at this point seems to just be built off the success and strength of Empire and A New Hope
@@Fizz.mp4 Jedi would have worked if Han and Leia had something to do and Lucas stuck with his original plan of the Ewoks being Wookiees.
I agree on the Han and Leia front but I think in the 80's trying to do a hundred wookie outfits a village big enough for actual people would have looked really bad
@@Fizz.mp4 haha yea probably, but at least we've seen that Wookies can use technology like guns and tools and drive things like ships and mechs instead of throwing rocks and using slingshots. It would have been thematically more believable.
I agree. It was the ewoks as to why I threw in the towel. Really, ewoks , EWOKS and not a horde of Wookies, who are the difference in defeating the evil empire? (🫤) I saw it was about selling toys and the animated Saturday morning cartoon. (🙄) Perhaps because I found them more annoying than useful. At least now I see I'm not the only one.