The sheet metal formed in between decking joists, prior to installing decking, seems like the best idea for waterproofing the space under that I've seen. I think the only way to make this work is to make sure the deck slants 1/4"/foot away from the house for proper drainage. If the deck was slanted less than that, the sheet metal forming would need to get progressively deeper away from the house, which would make the metal bending more complicated and cost more than if all way bent the same way. I'm going to built a deck above a walkout patio door next summer. I was looking at locking aluminum decking but the cost is really steep. Other alternatives are either using something like roofing membrane, which looks bad underneath as the membrane sags between joists or the many under deck solutions that looks like a lot of neck wrenching work. My deck will be 11' off the ground. I'm seriously thinking of drawing up a galvanized sheet metal profile and sending out to local sheet metal shops for a quote. I can always paint the underside of the metal before installing. I'd use joist flashing tape over the metal edges on the joists and that should seal well even with nails and screws going though the flashing when installing.
Landscape people please call 811 for locates. I work for a gas company and I respond to broken gas lines. I'm sure you did but you want to reinforce that principle. Thanks
What holds the deck down? You've essentially created another membrane when you tied the sleepers together. A strong wind at the end of the channels will want to lift the whole deck. Where does the air between the rubber and the metal escape in high wind situations?
I’m with you those sleepers are going to twist and curl. The homeowner is going to be pissed walking on that spongy thing after a year. It would have been better if the sleepers were under the rubber membrane or torch down.
I’ve been researching deck over roofs for our project. This is by far the best idea I’ve seen. Will be using for sure! Thanks for sharing and great video!
You might want to add some synthetic mesh at the bottom end of those deck sleeper channels. Remember in RI we have fall hornet season. Those nice dry spaces would be great for nesting locations. Just a thought.
@@Sweenorbuilders ... have seen that mesh clog with silt then the water stops flowing. You would have to do annual maintenance to keep the water running.
Did one last week using a adjustable foot with aluminium joists on top with the deck on top .and plenty drainage underneath on the roof .real easy to use . Think it was a product called rhino deck
These are great, I would also recommend putting the self sealing flashing tape on the boards before hammering in the nails. It’s what I do to make sure that pressure treated doesn’t ever rot.
I expect the metal will self clean a bit better however, the triangular sluice will concentrate water and the texture of the metal is smoother than the rubber, making the flow velocity a bit higher to better carry sediment away. Also, there isn’t the same nook and cranny problem where sediment will build up in the 90 deg corners of the sleepers. I would be curious how this system weathers with time.
Did the same underdeck system on my level, 12" o.c. deck. Formed my own 12' full-length troughs from aluminum flashing including built-in drainage slope. As the deck flexed when used, SO MUCH OIL-CAN POPPING NOISE! Didn't even finish screwing down the boards. Ripped out the aluminum and replaced with EPDM rubber troughs. No silver shining through the gaps, solid feeling, QUIET. Unless your deck is ROCK SOLID rigid and you have no other choice, don't use metal troughs. Learn from my mistake.
Great idea just a couple suggestions, 1) someone already brought up the point of the non galvanized nails and the pressure treated lumber and the problems that will eventually arise but the pressure treated lumber will cause the metal to deteriorate also, I would put a peel and stick tape like what you use around windows between the 2X4s and the metal to keep the lumber from reacting with the metal. 2) find a metal roofing company with a 20’ brake and they can make your trim in solid pieces so you don’t have to overlap. Again great idea I’ll use it myself thanks guys
Second the idea of putting down the adhesive membrane first. That will isolate the metal pans from the p.t. wood ( along with the other benefits of protecting wood if there is any standing water on it). Still have to deal with fasteners. Could use copper roofing nails to secure it, but then have galvanic reaction problem between copper nail and metal pan. Could just hold the pans in place with 2nd application of flashing tape? Better yet, make the pans out of copper instead of sheet metal ( what are you guys, a bunch of cheap skates 😂🙄).
what if wind come up under your floating deck???sounds dangerous not connecting things together!! i would say it fails my structural inspection, not sure if you had it inspected but wind can load the underside of you deck and blow it right of the joists if its not properly connected. best case it flaps in the wind lol
Have you ever tried Plidek waterproofing? We install it here in Florida. Builders here love it because all trades can work on it after completion without harming it.
Really nice deck drainage detail. I would love to see your decking and decking fastener choice. Also, I would like to see how you tie the decking/joists troughs into the water trough on the rim. BTW - Video quality crushes. Happy Holidays.
So if you have a sheet metal trough and tape over the seams do you really need the rubber membrane underneath? And where do I get this sheet metal? Do I have to make it myself?
Could you create a video on how Sweenor Builders does facia and soffiting trim. I would like to see some new ideas. Great videos and I enjoy watching your work on This Old House
Truly enjoy your show. I can’t tell you anything about building, You have forgotten more than I’ll ever know. But the show isn’t over produced like others...TOH. Keep up the great work. And Thanxs for keeping it real.
On the decking. Why don’t you use a simple system like Eterno Invica? (easy access) Is there a USA equivalent? Also, I’ve never been a big fan of rubber roofs. When you have spent half your working life surveying & maintaining buildings of all different types. This roof system is the costliest when it goes wrong; too easy to puncture. I’ve organised many repairs over many years on different brands of single membrane roof coverings all over the UK. Maybe that is why the video commentator mentions the the point of gaining access if there is a water leak. What made him say that? 30 years of experience? As a suggestion, use a hard wearing thicker reinforced bitumen flat roof product or roll on glass fibre system in the first place. They are harder wearing & more cost effective in the long run. Who wants to dig under nailed down linear sheeting buckling them in the process & trying to relay them? Also, treated timber only lasts externally say, 15-20 years (depending on environment) You know what it’s like in the construction game; tips to help each other. Jeff, good luck to all your team. p.s.(Quality video presentation) 👷♂️
It is not attached. The decking is attached to the sleepers only. It is a giant mat that weighs a couple thousand pounds, not likely to move. Thanks for your interest and for watching!
This is exactly the system that I came up with, minus full flat membraned base; but you got me considering it lol. The one hang up I have, is how to cover the cavities, both top and the ends, to prevent nesting bees, etc. So far I’m looking at a ss mesh screen.... which would also abate any debris...
Good call on preventing homes in the cavities, I shall need to consider this too. If I think of a good idea I’ll run it by you; please let me know if you come up with something first. It think the bug netting idea would work, just need it to be removable/trap door style so you can do clean outs
Could use something like core-a-vent or a black fiber mesh material ( can't think of name brands right now). We use stuff like that to keep bugs out of rain screens we do behind siding).
Hi Shane, only time will tell but another comment here suggested taping the PT sleepers before installing the metal....an idea we will now employ. Never done learning! Thank you for your interest!
@@Sweenorbuilders The never done learning thing is an absolute truth. I have been working and running a carpentry business for 30+ years. I come home from work (or like now, sit behind my desk on certain days) and read about building and watch videos like yours about building. I believe the flashing tape is a good thing and would recommend using it. I just wanted your thoughts before I offered mine in the event you knew something I didn't, especially since I know you know far more than I know. LOL!
@@Sweenorbuilders how was the deck&sleepers fastened to the roof without penatrating the membrane? I recall you said “floating” sleepers but i figured there must be something that stops this deck from being picked up in severe winds? Do you have any photos you could share? Thanks!
Hey guys great video but EDPM roof rubber system is the wrong system to be used caulking, seams, & flashing detail always open up have you ever look into a Thermoplastic system like Deck-King i always use on walk out roof deck all seams, & flashing detail are heat welded together its also the finish product you can walk on & looks great no need for sleepers and deck boards iam not knocking your work but there is better alternatives
Is outdoor vinyl waterproof membranes used in the Northeast US? I heard they are approved for use over living space and are slip-resistant, available in many colors and generally maintenance free. I was told by my contractor that the vinyl is the waterproofing and there is no need for a rubber membrane, sleepers or any other water shedding system. Less chance of failure. This vinyl outdoor vinyl flooring is popular in Canada and the East Coast US. Have you installed this type of outdoor vinyl before?
I just had to pull the freestanding deck on my house because of leak. The amount of debris under the deck was astonishing. To make situation worse the rim joist was covered by the azec board that literally left less that an inch of space from its bottom to the roof's epdm :( Definitely going to protect to deck when rebuild ! Thanks for sharing!
Hello! Would you mind commenting on the double water proofing? What I mean is, why do both waterproofing layers and not one or the other? It seems like the metal and Gtape works well and there isn't any need for the flatroof waterproofing underneath. Also, can the 2x4 runners eventually dry out and not rot? Thanks!
With the metal under the decking I have to wonder if that will also clog with debris then back up toward the house? Working on a flat roof leak under a sleeper deck as I type here. As I see it, the only thing you might gain is a few extra years on the roofing material due to no UV issues. My roof is 35 years old right now and even with PT wood that also splits / warps with time so needs replacement every 20 years or so.... even when stained for extra protection.
Very average solution and detailing, just adding another layer of complexity and cost, and making proper maintenance even harder. Not sure you’re actually addressing the real underlying issues in this application.
I like the idea but using a hidden deck fastener system means you can just easily pull up individual decking to remove debris and wash out in minutes....this seems like there's significant downsides. Wind uplift issues and now an additional layer of complexity to get to the underlying membrane for repair and maintenance.
Nice to see a good contractor that cares about the process. Unfortuneatly we are about as far apart as possible in the US without crossing the ocean. PS your framer has a greet sense of humor, luckily he is not a Samurai he would have to Seppuku himself for dropping his hammer.
Love the system but see two problems, you are using standard roofing nails and non-galvanized aluminum against pressure treated lumber. In less than eight years the chemicals will dissolve any non-galvanized aluminum in direct contact with that lumber, it will turn it to powder! I have personally witnessed it occur on the decks I have disassembled.
@@rangerboat98 as an aircraft mechanic that specialized in the restoration of WWII aircraft I have removed probably millions of galvanized bolts from aluminum and common to all of those was galvanic corrosion between the two. I have been a welder for 50 years and learned house building for 50 years and I have never heard of galvanized aluminum, anodized aluminum, but not galvanized aluminum. Now I have learned a lot of things with RUclips but I have also seen a lot of people who don't have a clue about what they are talking about, people who have made videos about stpainless steel boats being built that were aluminum. So if you have a source for galvanized aluminum sheet metal then I would like to see it, so how about posting a link to spread the word
Looking to build a deck on top of rubber roofing. I like your system! Is that whole deck floor just floating? If so, how do your deck railings get attached?
Great job collaborating on the grist mill project. It looks fantastic. Clean, natural and historically accurate. Snug Harbor roof sleeper drainage solution is genius. Your team is spot on and I wait patiently every week for the next episode. Kudos.
Find a metal roofing distributor.we have a 21'CNC jorns brake, that piece you have you could get ONE PIECE...AND IF THERE NICE THEY WILL DO TO LENGTH..I could make it 10'3" long..and you could use scrap cover flat sheets lol. There cheap ..aka bargain. 10 bks ea. I'm sure it's not nessisary but a 2 doller roll of butyl tape 3/8" x 1/2# x45' long ..be nice on that sleeper,under the trim.!! Well hopefully your "buddy" let ya know about cover sheets. Or have him buy a downgraded trim coil from his manufacturer! It's usually about a doller or so every l.f. I get em 2000-6000 lf. Sometimes. That would be practically all the metal had ever need for those ! Good job guys!
i know everyone is a critic, but what is stopping that second story deck from being picked up and carried away if every thing is sitting in sleepers and your sleepers are fastened to the roof deck. On top of that how are you supposed to fasten the railing posts down. I'm a deck builder in Minnesota and do some pretty custom work often including drainage systems on decks. The last deck I did had a full board board and batten ceiling and we used the Trex RainEscape system and had left the ceiling open for 2 weeks after the install to inspect our work and make sure we had zero leaks before we buttoned it up. That system works beautifully, only had on leak and it was on the back left corner between the ledger and 1/4" gap between from one of 2 ply rim-joists being cut a little short. Some butyl caulk and it never leaked again. People have used the same basic principles of this system with EPDM pond liner and 3" joist flashing tape and have received the same if not sometimes better results. I don't mean to sh** on your work but there are much better ways of achieving this result and probably for less cost.
But thats not a deck no more technically, its a roof ! How can you put a table or chairs or even walk safely on that top deck if its edged and rigid everywhere ?
the deck drainage system is brilliant!!! quick question... bc the sleepers are not fastened in any way... do they warp, twist or move... and when you walk on it.. are there spots that thump as your foot adds pressure...
Great question. Very possible. The deck screws help a little bit, but it is wood, and it’s an imperfect system. We try to avoid using PT straight off the shelf, and give it some time to dry, because the dryer it is the less it will move. A week of drying will weed out some of the crappy boards. The grain will give hints on how the wood is going to move, but time is the best judge. Hope that helps
Hey Jeff......I watch your work all the time with This Old House......sure am happy I found you had your own channel here. Question for ya......I have had the same idea to waterproof and control water under a deck, still waiting for my first opportunity to try it.....I'm sure you have some type of vent at the bottom end of your metal troughs but what do you put there to keep bee's and other critters from making that void their new home?
Hi Paul, Thanks for your question...there is a skirt board at the end of the trough that conceals most of the void so only high enough for water to drain out. Hopefully bee's won't be a problem but we will keep an eye on it! Thanks for watching!
No worries about the metal buckling from expansion and contraction and nailing it both ends? There is a reason why metal roofs are designed to move...Looks like a good idea but it could be an issue. Hopefully the deck boards will provide enough force to keep the metal from buckling.
Ryan please do not carry your hammer in the back of your belt , because if you fall backwards you could do real damage to your spine. I know this because a friend mine now has 4 wheels to get around with for the rest of his days
Yes, very well said. Also, wooden hammers are top heavy at the head; obviously. Great for swing action & drive impact; but it can pop out too easily when when you squat down on the side of something. Also the frog holder is too wide to retain the hammer. Try a custom made one if you like; you will probably thereafter, never change it again. I suppose it depends on your preference & needs.
How are the deck sleepers affixed to the roof if it's not fastened through the rubber? If they are fully floating, what's keeping the wind from lifting the deck?
Hi Shane, not affixed but it weighs a few thousand pounds and no way for wind to get underneath as there is a perimeter trim skirt around it flush to tp of decking.
You need to insulate contact between non galvanized metal and pressure treated lumber. Galvinezed 1 1/4 nails and another layer of tape over the sleeper before installing the stamped drainage steel would extend the life of this system to the claims made. 👍
What about a concern for the trapped moisture that will inevitably occur between the rubber roof and the bottom of the metal troughs? That’s gotta be a problem with rotting those PT Sleepers sooner than the rest of the assembly....therefore they become the weakest link. No?
@@dovetailgroupllc You realize the "PT" means they're impregnated with a rot resistant chemical. Those sleepers are used in normal deck construction as well.
@@nickmcgarvey6463 ....yes I am aware that PT means pressure treated....are you aware that there are different grades of pressure treated? And even if they are full ground contact rated, the moisture and heat build-up that will occur within that assembly will rot those sleepers in less than 20yrs...and then what does the homeowner have? I believe SWEENOR is building for 50-100yr life cycles
Why wouldn’t you use the Trex Rainescape system for the under deck drainage???
The sheet metal formed in between decking joists, prior to installing decking, seems like the best idea for waterproofing the space under that I've seen. I think the only way to make this work is to make sure the deck slants 1/4"/foot away from the house for proper drainage. If the deck was slanted less than that, the sheet metal forming would need to get progressively deeper away from the house, which would make the metal bending more complicated and cost more than if all way bent the same way.
I'm going to built a deck above a walkout patio door next summer. I was looking at locking aluminum decking but the cost is really steep. Other alternatives are either using something like roofing membrane, which looks bad underneath as the membrane sags between joists or the many under deck solutions that looks like a lot of neck wrenching work. My deck will be 11' off the ground.
I'm seriously thinking of drawing up a galvanized sheet metal profile and sending out to local sheet metal shops for a quote. I can always paint the underside of the metal before installing. I'd use joist flashing tape over the metal edges on the joists and that should seal well even with nails and screws going though the flashing when installing.
Landscape people please call 811 for locates. I work for a gas company and I respond to broken gas lines. I'm sure you did but you want to reinforce that principle. Thanks
Hi Garrett, I used your idea on my new deck. This is a outstanding idea and system. Great job!!
This is awesome to hear!!
What holds the deck down? You've essentially created another membrane when you tied the sleepers together. A strong wind at the end of the channels will want to lift the whole deck. Where does the air between the rubber and the metal escape in high wind situations?
Following. I want to do something similar over a garage extension roof.
Of the wind can’t escape at the other side m there should be less lifting going on.
I’m with you those sleepers are going to twist and curl. The homeowner is going to be pissed walking on that spongy thing after a year. It would have been better if the sleepers were under the rubber membrane or torch down.
I’ve been researching deck over roofs for our project. This is by far the best idea I’ve seen. Will be using for sure! Thanks for sharing and great video!
Glad it was helpful!
You might want to add some synthetic mesh at the bottom end of those deck sleeper channels. Remember in RI we have fall hornet season. Those nice dry spaces would be great for nesting locations. Just a thought.
Good suggestion, thanks!
@@Sweenorbuilders ... have seen that mesh clog with silt then the water stops flowing. You would have to do annual maintenance to keep the water running.
Did one last week using a adjustable foot with aluminium joists on top with the deck on top .and plenty drainage underneath on the roof .real easy to use . Think it was a product called rhino deck
I feel like ya'll should be in The Build Show network. Great content.
Thank you for the compliment!
Agreed!
I. thought you can't put even painted aluminum on pressure treated because of oxidizing ?
That's the reason why we use Trex Rain Escape....
These are great, I would also recommend putting the self sealing flashing tape on the boards before hammering in the nails. It’s what I do to make sure that pressure treated doesn’t ever rot.
Nice job, you can really see the quality craftsmanship in all your projects
Thank you, appreciate it!
Shame there’s not a permanent wax that could be applied to the deck gutters or rubber roofing to make water flow and debris slide more easily.
The debris will still collect on the metal. The sleepers are protected but now you can get synthetic purpose made sleepers that won't rot.
I expect the metal will self clean a bit better however, the triangular sluice will concentrate water and the texture of the metal is smoother than the rubber, making the flow velocity a bit higher to better carry sediment away. Also, there isn’t the same nook and cranny problem where sediment will build up in the 90 deg corners of the sleepers. I would be curious how this system weathers with time.
Good invention, necessity is the mother of invention.
Great videography and editing. Love the show!
Thanks for watching!
Brilliant deck drainage!
Ryan, lol, I've got an almost identical set of tools in my tool belt including an awl. You must be an awesome carpenter. 😎
He sure is Roger! Thanks for following!
Did the same underdeck system on my level, 12" o.c. deck. Formed my own 12' full-length troughs from aluminum flashing including built-in drainage slope. As the deck flexed when used, SO MUCH OIL-CAN POPPING NOISE! Didn't even finish screwing down the boards. Ripped out the aluminum and replaced with EPDM rubber troughs. No silver shining through the gaps, solid feeling, QUIET. Unless your deck is ROCK SOLID rigid and you have no other choice, don't use metal troughs. Learn from my mistake.
How are the treated 2x4's sleepers attached to the roof deck so they don't move? Or is it a completely floating deck?
Great idea just a couple suggestions, 1) someone already brought up the point of the non galvanized nails and the pressure treated lumber and the problems that will eventually arise but the pressure treated lumber will cause the metal to deteriorate also, I would put a peel and stick tape like what you use around windows between the 2X4s and the metal to keep the lumber from reacting with the metal. 2) find a metal roofing company with a 20’ brake and they can make your trim in solid pieces so you don’t have to overlap. Again great idea I’ll use it myself thanks guys
Great Suggestions Dennis! Thanks!
Second the idea of putting down the adhesive membrane first. That will isolate the metal pans from the p.t. wood ( along with the other benefits of protecting wood if there is any standing water on it). Still have to deal with fasteners.
Could use copper roofing nails to secure it, but then have galvanic reaction problem between copper nail and metal pan. Could just hold the pans in place with 2nd application of flashing tape? Better yet, make the pans out of copper instead of sheet metal ( what are you guys, a bunch of cheap skates 😂🙄).
I really like the tool belt segments, so cool to see how each person has theirs set up.
Thanks, more to come!
Ryan should just spend the $20.00 on the const master app and he'll only need to carry his phone ..
Most phones have a calculator app. Hopefully you’ve got an Otterbox case so it’s drop proof if not bullet proof.
@@davidelliott5843 a calculator isn't the same as a construction master
Pretty much everyone has there phone at least out of the truck with them......
With a full tool belt like that suspenders would come in handy
He probably still has hips. They tend to disappear later.
Make the last row of deck boards removable (at the house) to spray a garden hose down periodically.
Never use EPDM under a deck. The sleeper will pinch the rubber and cause leaks. Use a membrane called awplan. If you haven't heard of it ,research it.
I just came across your channel but know if you from TOH. Thanks for your integrity.
Your guys are a hoot.
what if wind come up under your floating deck???sounds dangerous not connecting things together!! i would say it fails my structural inspection, not sure if you had it inspected but wind can load the underside of you deck and blow it right of the joists if its not properly connected. best case it flaps in the wind lol
How and where are the sleepers attached?
Scorpio ... they are called sleepers because they do NOT attach to the building. Basically it's a floating deck.
@@rupe53 thank you
You should patent this design if it doesn’t already exist.
Fantastic as well as fascinating! Great collaborative team effort! Love this SAWDUST series! Can't wait til next Wed. EP06! Job well done!
Thank you!
Could also put zip tape around the sleepers so they stay dry and protect the metal from the pressure treated chemicals.
Have you ever tried Plidek waterproofing? We install it here in Florida. Builders here love it because all trades can work on it after completion without harming it.
We will look into that product! Thanks
Hope the channel is a success. I subbed wo watching video lol been a fan since you guys were on TOH. Keep up the good work.
Thanks Mike! When you watch the video, let us know what you think!
@@Sweenorbuilders I watched several and really enjoyed them. Love the content and modern building concepts and explanations.
This is a good idea. I like it. Keeping clean might be an issue, but should work well.
I know this video is a bit old, but with floating sleepers, what keeps the deck from resisting wind uplift?
Really nice deck drainage detail. I would love to see your decking and decking fastener choice. Also, I would like to see how you tie the decking/joists troughs into the water trough on the rim. BTW - Video quality crushes. Happy Holidays.
Thanks for watching and happy holidays to you!
So if you have a sheet metal trough and tape over the seams do you really need the rubber membrane underneath? And where do I get this sheet metal? Do I have to make it myself?
So the weight of the wood is the only thing stopping high winds from ripping that deck off that rubber roof??
Could you create a video on how Sweenor Builders does facia and soffiting trim. I would like to see some new ideas. Great videos and I enjoy watching your work on This Old House
Will do, thanks for your interest!
you guys need to get someone without ADHD to do your videos...I dunno WTF this was supposed to even be
Just put a second rubber membrane over the wood with valleys.
Put 3 while you're at it
If you let the slepers dry and seam taped the metal drain pans you'd effectively have a 2nd roof. and prevent any rot from getting into the sleepers.
Awesome to see you guys on RUclips without the editing and time constraints of TOH!
Glad you're enjoying the series!
Love to see professional craftsmanship at work! Thanks for sharing your problem solving solutions!
Thank you! It's our pleasure - glad you're enjoying the series.
Truly enjoy your show. I can’t tell you anything about building, You have forgotten more than I’ll ever know. But the show isn’t over produced like others...TOH. Keep up the great work. And Thanxs for keeping it real.
Thanks for the kind words and thanks for watching!
nice job but still dont show how to stop the debris from adding up at edge ??
How does the water drain? Are the sleepers not ripped to correct the slope of the rubber roof deck?
On the decking. Why don’t you use a simple system like Eterno Invica? (easy access) Is there a USA equivalent? Also, I’ve never been a big fan of rubber roofs. When you have spent half your working life surveying & maintaining buildings of all different types. This roof system is the costliest when it goes wrong; too easy to puncture. I’ve organised many repairs over many years on different brands of single membrane roof coverings all over the UK. Maybe that is why the video commentator mentions the the point of gaining access if there is a water leak. What made him say that? 30 years of experience? As a suggestion, use a hard wearing thicker reinforced bitumen flat roof product or roll on glass fibre system in the first place. They are harder wearing & more cost effective in the long run. Who wants to dig under nailed down linear sheeting buckling them in the process & trying to relay them? Also, treated timber only lasts externally say, 15-20 years (depending on environment) You know what it’s like in the construction game; tips to help each other. Jeff, good luck to all your team. p.s.(Quality video presentation) 👷♂️
What do you guys do with a sleeper deck for uplift?
If the floating, pressure treated 2x sleepers aren't attached through the rubber, how are they attached to the structure?
It is not attached. The decking is attached to the sleepers only. It is a giant mat that weighs a couple thousand pounds, not likely to move. Thanks for your interest and for watching!
This is exactly the system that I came up with, minus full flat membraned base; but you got me considering it lol. The one hang up I have, is how to cover the cavities, both top and the ends, to prevent nesting bees, etc. So far I’m looking at a ss mesh screen.... which would also abate any debris...
Good call on preventing homes in the cavities, I shall need to consider this too. If I think of a good idea I’ll run it by you; please let me know if you come up with something first. It think the bug netting idea would work, just need it to be removable/trap door style so you can do clean outs
Could use something like core-a-vent or a black fiber mesh material ( can't think of name brands right now). We use stuff like that to keep bugs out of rain screens we do behind siding).
How well will the deck drainage metal hold up in direct contact with pressure treated sleepers?
Hi Shane, only time will tell but another comment here suggested taping the PT sleepers before installing the metal....an idea we will now employ. Never done learning! Thank you for your interest!
@@Sweenorbuilders The never done learning thing is an absolute truth. I have been working and running a carpentry business for 30+ years. I come home from work (or like now, sit behind my desk on certain days) and read about building and watch videos like yours about building. I believe the flashing tape is a good thing and would recommend using it. I just wanted your thoughts before I offered mine in the event you knew something I didn't, especially since I know you know far more than I know. LOL!
@@Sweenorbuilders how was the deck&sleepers fastened to the roof without penatrating the membrane? I recall you said “floating” sleepers but i figured there must be something that stops this deck from being picked up in severe winds?
Do you have any photos you could share? Thanks!
Hey guys great video but EDPM roof rubber system is the wrong system to be used caulking, seams, & flashing detail always open up have you ever look into a Thermoplastic system like Deck-King i always use on walk out roof deck all seams, & flashing detail are heat welded together its also the finish product you can walk on & looks great no need for sleepers and deck boards iam not knocking your work but there is better alternatives
Is outdoor vinyl waterproof membranes used in the Northeast US? I heard they are approved for use over living space and are slip-resistant, available in many colors and generally maintenance free. I was told by my contractor that the vinyl is the waterproofing and there is no need for a rubber membrane, sleepers or any other water shedding system. Less chance of failure. This vinyl outdoor vinyl flooring is popular in Canada and the East Coast US. Have you installed this type of outdoor vinyl before?
I just had to pull the freestanding deck on my house because of leak. The amount of debris under the deck was astonishing. To make situation worse the rim joist was covered by the azec board that literally left less that an inch of space from its bottom to the roof's epdm :( Definitely going to protect to deck when rebuild ! Thanks for sharing!
Great video production, Jeff. Love the houses you build. 👍
Thanks Brad and welcome!
How did you fasten the pressure treated 2x4 over the rubber...? Thanks
It's not fastened. It's floating on top. He stated that in video @ 3:38.
Hello! Would you mind commenting on the double water proofing? What I mean is, why do both waterproofing layers and not one or the other? It seems like the metal and Gtape works well and there isn't any need for the flatroof waterproofing underneath. Also, can the 2x4 runners eventually dry out and not rot? Thanks!
Why install the rubber if you are going to use the sheet metal?
With the metal under the decking I have to wonder if that will also clog with debris then back up toward the house? Working on a flat roof leak under a sleeper deck as I type here. As I see it, the only thing you might gain is a few extra years on the roofing material due to no UV issues. My roof is 35 years old right now and even with PT wood that also splits / warps with time so needs replacement every 20 years or so.... even when stained for extra protection.
Very average solution and detailing, just adding another layer of complexity and cost, and making proper maintenance even harder. Not sure you’re actually addressing the real underlying issues in this application.
I like the idea but using a hidden deck fastener system means you can just easily pull up individual decking to remove debris and wash out in minutes....this seems like there's significant downsides. Wind uplift issues and now an additional layer of complexity to get to the underlying membrane for repair and maintenance.
Nice to see a good contractor that cares about the process. Unfortuneatly we are about as far apart as possible in the US without crossing the ocean. PS your framer has a greet sense of humor, luckily he is not a Samurai he would have to Seppuku himself for dropping his hammer.
Love the system but see two problems, you are using standard roofing nails and non-galvanized aluminum against pressure treated lumber. In less than eight years the chemicals will dissolve any non-galvanized aluminum in direct contact with that lumber, it will turn it to powder! I have personally witnessed it occur on the decks I have disassembled.
Galvanized aluminum?
@@alandavis6429 that is correct!
@@rangerboat98 as an aircraft mechanic that specialized in the restoration of WWII aircraft I have removed probably millions of galvanized bolts from aluminum and common to all of those was galvanic corrosion between the two.
I have been a welder for 50 years and learned house building for 50 years and I have never heard of galvanized aluminum, anodized aluminum, but not galvanized aluminum.
Now I have learned a lot of things with RUclips but I have also seen a lot of people who don't have a clue about what they are talking about, people who have made videos about stpainless steel boats being built that were aluminum.
So if you have a source for galvanized aluminum sheet metal then I would like to see it, so how about posting a link to spread the word
@@alandavis6429 sciencing.com/galvanize-aluminum-8664634.html
Been doing this in the south for years. There are companies that do this all over down here.
Nice!
Beautiful, innovative construction techniques shown here. Thank you for sharing your wisdom. Much appreciated.
So, that’s not a bad idea. However, roofing system manufacturers have a way better system.
I know it’s adds to the cost considerably, but why not use pvc sleepers. Pressure treated will eventually rot.
I love the fabricated sheet metal option. Does your fabricator sell these? Do you have a link for them?
Looking to build a deck on top of rubber roofing. I like your system! Is that whole deck floor just floating? If so, how do your deck railings get attached?
Great job collaborating on the grist mill project. It looks fantastic. Clean, natural and historically accurate. Snug Harbor roof sleeper drainage solution is genius. Your team is spot on and I wait patiently every week for the next episode. Kudos.
Thank you, and yes, stay tuned!
Videos are very well done, this is some of the best-formatted content on YT. Very professional; well done. Subscribed.
Wow, thanks! Welcome to our channel!
yea but your culvert pipe is backwards!! it will eventually blow out those connections
Love this!
Anyone else see the crayfish at 14:18?
Dang that was awesome stuff!
Drain pans will corrode out because two different metals are in contact. aluminum and copper
Flashing tape is covering PT sleepers? And composite deck boards.
@@texasslam9640 the tape should be under the panning not on top. PT wood is treated with copper. Which will react to the aluminum panning.
Nice solution. Thanks
Find a metal roofing distributor.we have a 21'CNC jorns brake, that piece you have you could get ONE PIECE...AND IF THERE NICE THEY WILL DO TO LENGTH..I could make it 10'3" long..and you could use scrap cover flat sheets lol. There cheap ..aka bargain. 10 bks ea. I'm sure it's not nessisary but a 2 doller roll of butyl tape 3/8" x 1/2# x45' long ..be nice on that sleeper,under the trim.!! Well hopefully your "buddy" let ya know about cover sheets. Or have him buy a downgraded trim coil from his manufacturer! It's usually about a doller or so every l.f. I get em 2000-6000 lf. Sometimes. That would be practically all the metal had ever need for those ! Good job guys!
Thanks for the feedback and the suggestions!
Great cinematography. Makes learning about building and Sweenor Builders' process captivating. Can't wait for Episode #6!
Thanks Maura, we've got the best in the business creating this stuff!
What's the flashing material? Isn't there an issue with flashing and pressure treated lumber?
I was thinking about this very situation of a new design build I am working on. Thank you for the great water removal system.
Thank you for watching!
i know everyone is a critic, but what is stopping that second story deck from being picked up and carried away if every thing is sitting in sleepers and your sleepers are fastened to the roof deck. On top of that how are you supposed to fasten the railing posts down. I'm a deck builder in Minnesota and do some pretty custom work often including drainage systems on decks. The last deck I did had a full board board and batten ceiling and we used the Trex RainEscape system and had left the ceiling open for 2 weeks after the install to inspect our work and make sure we had zero leaks before we buttoned it up. That system works beautifully, only had on leak and it was on the back left corner between the ledger and 1/4" gap between from one of 2 ply rim-joists being cut a little short. Some butyl caulk and it never leaked again. People have used the same basic principles of this system with EPDM pond liner and 3" joist flashing tape and have received the same if not sometimes better results. I don't mean to sh** on your work but there are much better ways of achieving this result and probably for less cost.
This is what I'm thinking. Still trying to figure out how to attach metal posts for the railing on the edge of the deck
Where do u buy that sheet metal
But thats not a deck no more technically, its a roof ! How can you put a table or chairs or even walk safely on that top deck if its edged and rigid everywhere ?
We install decking on top of that system screwing down into the sleepers.
@@Sweenorbuilders oh ok, it wasn’t displayed on the video. Thks for the reply 👍🏻
Serious question. Wouldnt fiberglass under the deck be much better
He didn't say that he counter fleshed the end at the house or used a break on the end of his metal and then counter flashed
the deck drainage system is brilliant!!! quick question... bc the sleepers are not fastened in any way... do they warp, twist or move... and when you walk on it.. are there spots that thump as your foot adds pressure...
Great question. Very possible. The deck screws help a little bit, but it is wood, and it’s an imperfect system. We try to avoid using PT straight off the shelf, and give it some time to dry, because the dryer it is the less it will move. A week of drying will weed out some of the crappy boards. The grain will give hints on how the wood is going to move, but time is the best judge. Hope that helps
Have a look at Capiphon Draninage a really good system
Will do - thank you!
Where can I purchase the diverter sheets that you used? Your work is absolutely fantastic!
Hey Jeff......I watch your work all the time with This Old House......sure am happy I found you had your own channel here. Question for ya......I have had the same idea to waterproof and control water under a deck, still waiting for my first opportunity to try it.....I'm sure you have some type of vent at the bottom end of your metal troughs but what do you put there to keep bee's and other critters from making that void their new home?
Hi Paul, Thanks for your question...there is a skirt board at the end of the trough that conceals most of the void so only high enough for water to drain out. Hopefully bee's won't be a problem but we will keep an eye on it! Thanks for watching!
No worries about the metal buckling from expansion and contraction and nailing it both ends? There is a reason why metal roofs are designed to move...Looks like a good idea but it could be an issue. Hopefully the deck boards will provide enough force to keep the metal from buckling.
Excellent point! We believe that two screws in each deck board 12" o.c. will be enough to resist that force! Thanks for your input and for watching!
Ryan please do not carry your hammer in the back of your belt , because if you fall backwards you could do real damage to your spine. I know this because a friend mine now has 4 wheels to get around with for the rest of his days
Yes, very well said. Also, wooden hammers are top heavy at the head; obviously. Great for swing action & drive impact; but it can pop out too easily when when you squat down on the side of something. Also the frog holder is too wide to retain the hammer. Try a custom made one if you like; you will probably thereafter, never change it again. I suppose it depends on your preference & needs.
That old mill was really cool..
How are the deck sleepers affixed to the roof if it's not fastened through the rubber? If they are fully floating, what's keeping the wind from lifting the deck?
Hi Shane, not affixed but it weighs a few thousand pounds and no way for wind to get underneath as there is a perimeter trim skirt around it flush to tp of decking.
You need to use a membrane on the top of the sleepers. Every hole or screw will rot the board in time.
vycor or g tape on top of the metal seams
How about another membrane on the membrane to cover the membrane.
You need to insulate contact between non galvanized metal and pressure treated lumber. Galvinezed 1 1/4 nails and another layer of tape over the sleeper before installing the stamped drainage steel would extend the life of this system to the claims made. 👍
Thanks Kyle, great suggestion!
Less marketing, more details please.
As an architect, I approve of your decking solution 100%. Great work.
Awesome! Thank you!
What about a concern for the trapped moisture that will inevitably occur between the rubber roof and the bottom of the metal troughs? That’s gotta be a problem with rotting those PT Sleepers sooner than the rest of the assembly....therefore they become the weakest link. No?
@@dovetailgroupllc You realize the "PT" means they're impregnated with a rot resistant chemical. Those sleepers are used in normal deck construction as well.
@@nickmcgarvey6463 ....yes I am aware that PT means pressure treated....are you aware that there are different grades of pressure treated? And even if they are full ground contact rated, the moisture and heat build-up that will occur within that assembly will rot those sleepers in less than 20yrs...and then what does the homeowner have? I believe SWEENOR is building for 50-100yr life cycles
@@jonathanscholl6035 Those sleepers are in the deck with or without the sheet metal.
Really great deck drainage system.