I'm not knowledgeable enough to make any predictions, but damn, your videos are awesome. You put so much work into it... I hope you'll have lots of followers one day.
Xiangyu doesn't manage his generals well in terms of politics (not in terms of warfare). His empire won't grow too big. Also, Xiangyu made several mistakes as a ruler. His empire was destined to fail even if Liu Bang died.
Holy molly... what a twist! That flute technique, Xian last stand, the position of power that got Han and his demmands in order to aid his “Ally” was astonishing.... great video CJ really good
Not gonna lie, I came here AFTER I finished watching "War of Kings" from Netflix since it vaguely explained how Liu Bang defeated Xiang Yu at the Battle of Gaixia. Great job on explaining this! P.S. Yeap, that "bowl of soup" was included lol
@@aokhoinguyenang3992 yeah that was a great show, still the best one featuring this chu-han era..but one thing i don't like about that show is that it tried to potray liu bang as being forced to kill xiang yu when in actual fact, i think liu bang really wanted to betray him.
Xiang Yu's uncle Xiang Bo (the man who saved Liu Bang at the Hong Gate feast) was pardoned by the grateful Liu Bang when he became emperor and was even made a marquis.
A family bed time story sometime during the Han Wen Di Era（漢文帝） Grandson: Dad, I heard that our grandpa is a soldier from the state of Qin and our grandma is from state of Wei Dad: Yes, your grandpa fought for Qin, help Qin unify China, while your grandma was a peasant girl lived peacefully in the wheat fields. Grandson: Then, how he end up as a drifter? Dad: There's inner strife in the Qin court, his army was crushed by the Zhao Gao's cup d tat, then he wander the countryside as a beggar. Grandson: Then how grandpa meet grandma? Dad: At the time state of Wei was conquered by Qin then later thrown into chaos, grandma also end up as a drifter, later grandpa wander into the former lands of Wei, saw your grandma starving, then he share his food with her, hence I was born. Mum: To earn a living, your grandpa decided to join Liu Bang's army and fought bravely against Xiang Yu and the northern barbarians. Grandpa: That's right, these swords was awarded by the Emperor Qin Shi Huang and Emperor Han Gao Zu themself as a sign of honour and respect.(Show off his two badass weapons) Grandma: Alright, everyone it's late now, everyone go to sleep.
I appreciate this video a lot. Honestly came here after discovering the song yu xi tan and learned it was in a sense about this battle and wanted more backstory on it. Excellent job!
I used to like Xiang Yu very much, his image fits people's fantasy of a hero, compared to Liu Bang, people will think, why him? A man who is neither good at war nor good at planning finally gains the world. But I am gradually understanding Liu Bang's leadship and ambition are also very precious.Comparing to Liu Bang, Xiang Yu only wants to be a super king, and that wish was against the tide of times, the need of social and economic development and would not last long. So the talents would not serve for him.
if you think about it the three kingdoms era is kinda like a fanfiction of this, liu bei is liu bang with moral, lu bu is xiang yu, zhao yun is han xin, zhuge liang is zhang liang with magic powers if you read the novelization, hell even xiang yu suggest han xin to be cao cao by taking northern territory, either the three kingdom is a fanfic or god is playing with fate
I think it has a lot to do with the Chinese culture's emphasis on education and the study of history. The intellectuals back then could drop names from the most obscure part of history like crazy. So it is not strange that these warlords would also want to model themselves after their ancient heroes.
@Gringo Sinting i agree with you on the military skill, what i'm talking about is their circumstances, both are feared generals of their time and every enemies they faced will be thinking twice to fight them, both needs strategy to be defeated and not on equal footing, and if you stretch it they both got their ladies, so what i'm trying to say if three kingdoms is early han's fanfiction i think lu bu is in xiang yu's shoe and not to compare them, because the circumstances is really freaking similar, in my mind xiang yu is a mix of lu bu and the sun family, xiang yu is the most feared general and his base is from the east, liu bang is the same as liu bei with less the morals and his base is in shu (if you know sun-liu alliance then you know where this is going), lol maybe it's my mind that's crazy :3
@Gringo Sinting lol, ik that, but i'm not talking about their skill, i'm talking about circumstances, it's like god is playing with history the way earlier han is almost the same as three kingdoms, let me put it this way, as the video mentioned xiang yu and liu bang swore an oath to be brothers, lu bu i think making liu bei like a brother when lu bu was taking refuge in liu bei's base, or if that was wrong take the sun family as an example as i said above xiang yu is a mix of lu bu and sun family, when sun-liu alliance was formed liu bei married to sun family's daughter, and after liu bei taking shu the sun-liu alliance begin to collapse, just like liu bang after taking the capital that broke that oath with xiang yu, and about han xin to me he's like a mix of zhao yun and almost a cao cao, because han xin is a good warrior with amazing feat like conquering the north so fast, while zhao yun's feat is saving liu bei's son by charging through cao cao's army, which both are super hard to do but they both made it and when i said almost cao cao i mean if han xin would take the offer from xiang yu that would be like three kingdoms right? one north, one west, one east?
@Gringo Sinting that's what i'm talking about, it's like god thinking "hmmm... what am i going to do with han dynasty, it lasted long enough, and it's getting boring... oh! i know i think i can create a new dynasty but they will be the same as the beginning of han with a little bit of changes so that mortals cannot caught that i'm being lazy" thus three kingdoms were born with the changes are instead of qin it begins with yellow turban and dong zhuo and making han xin's choice in dividing china into 3, and making the combat skill to be the highlight for scholar (many three kingdoms character is highlighted by their individual skill instead of the military skill, like guan yu, lu bu, zhao yun. huang gai and cao ren were second compared to them, maybe because the startegy is the same as early han so they focus it on individual skills) and make the historical events kinda backwards and make more characters to fill the gap (lu bu taking refuge in liu bei, while xiang yu take liu bang of sorts, and instead of oath brothers like xiang yu and liu bang, they will be brothers in law by the wu army, in which i talked about xiang yu is a mix of lu bu and wu army), again you have to put your mind as a writer/novelist to see this *cough*luo guanzhong*cough* lol :3
Not really. Xiang Yu isn't a boor and had tactical mind in field and knows how to lead. Liu Bei simply used the good guy politician tactic to attract everyone who hates Cao Cao's extreme pragmatism and tolerance to his cruel generals, in reality Liu Bei is just the same, tolerating Zhang Fei's misdoings and him backstabing multiple times(opportunistic). In fact even his lineage is questionable. 3 kingdoms era is far more competitive than Liu Bang's lucky drive. So many strong factions fighting each other. The factions that Han Xin wiped out in the north are simply fodders.
It's crazy how many similarities Xiang Yu and Hannibal have in general. Both were incredible tacticians and excellent warriors who inevitably lost their respective wars.
@@richhartnell6233 they had massive differences in character though, and lost due to different factors. Xiang Yu failed because he was too pig-headed to listen to anyone but himself. He also underestimated Liu Bang and could not rule without employing brutality. Hannibal Barca failed because of a corrupt and incompetent senate back home not providing him with enough support. His enemy, Rome, also proved far more resilient and tenacious than anyone could've thought, powering through catastrophic defeats at Lake Trasimene and Cannae to grab ultimate victory. In this sense, Hannibal was ironically more like Zhang Han, who was betrayed by the Qin court under Zhao Gao and left to fend for himself in isolation.
@@richhartnell6233 but liu bang was not as great as alexander the great, alex conquered his territories through sheer tactical ingenuity while liu bang on the other hand did it through breaking a peace treaty..
This goes to show how the smallest things can impact the entire course of history! Xiang Yu might have been the baddest warrior of the era, the strongest, bravest, etc...but he was clearly proud beyond belief. He never respected Han Xin when clearly he had a brilliant tactical mind. That disrespect led to defection and Han Xin literally single-handedly turned the entire course of history. Still, Han Xin is such a bastard! Sneaky sneaky sneaky. Also choosing to play a minor role in Liu Bang's united China was clearly his downfall regardless. He was too crafty and capable to be left to grow and instead was trickily betrayed and killed in turn only a few short years later. Liu Bang is definitely shameless, but to the victor belongs the spoils!
Swapping one narcissist warlord for another changes almost nothing. If a leader is named in a historical text, especially in Chinese history, it's almost certain they had a net-negative impact on the overall welfare of the people.
If i was Han Xin, I would choose to be the master of my own realm than being a subordinate of another knowing that they can take my life at anytime they please.
Han Xin is ignorant at everything other than military deployment. Like every nerve in his brain was dedicated to warfare. He was politically naive and very proud. He could have easily been the emperor if he wanted. He could have just waited Xiang Yu and Liu Bang to wear themselves out then attack them both, making Qi his powerbase at first.
King Huai, Sima Xin, Fan Zang. Given Xiang Yu's history by the time the question of supporting him against Liu Bang was relevant, it would be clear that Xiang Yu was a dead end road, however I believe that it was always ever the flaws of Han Xin's personality that would always be his downfall either way. He had the ultimate mind for the time, but the improper heart required for longevity in tja
Han Xin, technically, the single person that has indirectly influence the chinese culture and traditions today. The side he had chosen, determined what is chinese culture today.
楚, 你们的专业是什么?! (Chǔ, Nǐ men de zhuānyè shì shénme?!/ Chu, what is your profession?!) - Xiang yu, on his last stand near the Wu river, modern day Hu County, Anhui, 202 BC
I remember hearing another story that Lady Yu was captured by Han Xin, and used as bait to lure Xiang Yu into the 10 sided ambush. Lady Yu killed herself because she felt Xiang Yu's defeat was her own fault. Is that from any reputable sources, or just folklore?
It's folklore. I have heard of that version too but I just couldn't find it in any historical sources. I have to delete tons of folklore materials after I did my research, lol!
@Gringo Sinting I have actually been scouring for that event in Shiji, because I thought it happened too, but I can't find it. I think it might have been a legend.
Lui Bang & Xiang Yu both were capable to be a ruler with their own shortcoming. But Liu Bang was destined to be the emperors. Han dynasty become a weak dynasty in the early state that had to paid tribute and one princess as a gift to Xiongnu since left by their great men. If Xiang Yu & Han Xing become a Han general, Xiongnu had no changed at all.
Definitely would have followed the advice of the master strategies Fan Zeng, if he had, he would have been unstoppable. Unfortunately, ego kills many men.
Richard the Lionheart, but in China? Perhaps the closest comparison I can think of is Zhu Di and Li Shimin. But Richard thrived on warring in foreign lands.
Wow - I feel like if I were Han Xin I might have gambled for with the warring third in the hopes of eventually conquering the other two, but choosing to unite China was the faster more peaceful option -
Not so easy. Troop loyalty is at stake. Once Xiang Yu is able to recover he would be in a dangerous position. Han Xin is also not saint. Brilliant in commanding troops but failure at politics. Blackmailing for higher position shows greed. He wouldn't end up this way in the end if it wasn't for his greed. Zhang Liang is wisest and clear headed of them all.
The most stupid things what Xiang Yu did is he is not making him self an emperor after conquer Xian Yang, he have the strongest army at the time, have good tactician like Fan Zeng, he also have many famous general including ex Qin general like Zhang Han & Sima Xin .. Xiang Yu wasting an opportunity from heaven & ended dying as a broken man
sounds like it but not that easy, as liu and xiang are sworn brothers too remember? if they team up he'd be finished. he had to chose one of them as master
If i were han xin, i will choose with liu bang. If i joined xiang yu and help him win over liu bang, the common people will live under warlord with warrior mindset, it will be hard time with tyrant leadership. *ps i love your channel and waiting for next eastern han until sui era
Liu Bang turned into more of a paranoid tyrant late in life and started executing the people (including Han Xin) who helped to gain power. He also put his family members into power as nobles of several semi-autonomous states within the Han Empire, which led to eventual corruption and another giant civil war a few decades later. Xiang Yu wanted more of a decentralized Confederation of feudal states that had broad autonomy, so Xiang Yu wouldn't have had much direct influence of the common people outside of his directly ruled domain. Under Xiang Yu, China would have turned into something more like the Europe with the European Union or something.
Liu Bang was a warlord as well... Difference is Xiang Yu was not a degenerate and was quite virtuous compare to Liu Bang who frequently broke truce. As intranet said, Xiang Yu was more of a Confucianist who wanted to make a feudal confederation to that of the early Huaxia. He also had a strong belief of Heaven as that of Mozi. Liu Bang on the other hand is recorded as executing Confucians and pissing in their hats.
@@fumaaa5643 But Liu Bang also killed his friends who helped him become emperor. So you're screwed if you are an enemy of Xiang Yu, and screwed if you are a friend of Liu Bang.
@goff0103 Xiang Yu was cruel to his enemies but extremely loyal to his friends. Liu Bang was more practical/Machiavellian about his enemies, but later turned on and betrayed his friends. So if I was Han Xin and I could choose to be friends with either Xiang Yu or Liu Bang, then I'd choose to be friends with and serve Xiang Yu.
Based on Sima Qian's record , Liu Bang had a full beard and was about 1.8m tall, and Xiang Yu only had some moustache and was about 1.86m tall. The Han dynasty mural painting also depicts Xiang Yu as having only some moustache instead of beard.
@@XuerLi i think he meant the xiang yu in this video...also xiang yu died relatively young, around 30 and having a full beard was probably more popular for older men during that era.
Xiao He got too good at his job and the citizens started to like him more than Liu Bang. Rather than get himself killed for threatening Liu Bang's rule, he orchestrated a corruption charge on himself. It it better to be jailed momentarily than be executed for a trumped up treason charge.
@@CoolHistoryBros Ironically, this was one of the few instances where corruption made a person look good: too greedy for petty-cash and material pleasures to be aspiring to imperial greatness.
Zhang Liang the spiritual advisor mentioned this when parting ways with Liu Bang "When the arrows are finished, and there is nothing to hunt, you start to cook and eat your hunting dogs"
great video again, since liu bang served qin before hand, I have a feeling that liu wanted to continue qin's legacy, i.e. to form a greater china, I could be wrong just opinion only. after his death, his wife Lu hou almost set every backward to pre-qin, if not her than any other elements or personages or competing forces would be glad to set back the clock, but some how, miraculously china stayed united as one, very unlike europe ..
Han Xin already in Xiang Yu side before, but Xiang Yu just make him a guarding camp soldier .. even after one of Xiang Yu famous general recommendation him, Xiang Yu still look down to him, so Han Xin decided to leave Xiang Yu & join Liu Bang
xiang yu was too arrogant and too full of himself to acknowledge han xin's talents, which drove han xin to look for another lord elsewhere, this is one of xiang yu's many critical mistakes..which he still didn't admit towards his end..he even said that "it was the heaven's will that cause him his defeat, not because of the mistakes he made.
Xiang Yu doesn't have the ability to accept wise advice from a man of humble status and even his most respected adviser was deserted eventually, and Han Xin knew that clearly. Actually Han Xin had served Xiang Yu before coming to Liu Bang. And Han Xin was killed by Lv zhi and Xiao He rather than by Liu Bang.
@@ajithsidhu7183 asian martial arts came from india by an indian monk and was introduced to shaolin i think..there were no western martial arts until recently with the invention of boxing and UFC which was inspired by bruce lee's philosophies.
@@zhugeliangkongming479 not sure if it's fake but from what i've always heard, Bodhidharma aka 達磨 in china was the founder of the shaolin kung fu. He also came to china to spread Buddhism. If he is fictional, then what is the origin of shaolin kungfu?
Xiang Yu was interesting. It didn't appear as if he wanted to be an Emperor. By all appearances it seems he was trying to set things back to the Spring and Autumn, where each kingdom ruled as it saw fit, with a hegemon to maintain order, of course, which would be him.
@@lyhthegreat Ah, you touched upon an important difference. "General" (And civil governors) not King or Duke. Qin Shi Huang understood that these nobles, tied to the land for generations, would only seek to increase their power. That is why Qin Shi Huang brought many of the nobles of the other ruling houses to live in Qin. Even made copies of their palaces, firstly, so they could feel "at home" and secondly so he could rule over his own "mini China" while ruling... over China, haha. Xiang Yu does not appear to have believed in unification as an end goal, he wanted to be the Overlord (霸王), which is just the nominal leader of the various kings and dukes (rather than sovereign and sacred lord, as the emperors were) and planned for all other lands to maintain their independence in some fashion.
And who do you think would be next when Xiang Yu finished with Liu Bang? There is no compromising solution with an ambitious mad-man, only a slower demise....
It's impossible. Xiang Yu hated Han Xin. Prior to serve Liu Bang, Han Xin served Xiang Yu first. But Xiang Yu rejected him simply because he didn't want a competitor under his camp.
@@gunh4129 I thought it was because he saw Han Xin as a weakling due to him not being particularly tough or buff looking? Xiang Yu was basically a jerk jock who looked down on and belittled nerds like Han Xin.
@@barbiquearea han xin was quite the asshole himself as well, he blackmailed liu bang when liu bang was trapped in a siege and needed reinforcements but he refused to send aid until liu bang agreed to confer him new titles and fiefs..tbh his end was partly his own fault..
Liu Bang wasn't that fantastic of a fellow, it would have been nice to hear about the tactic that Liu Bang used to take Xianyang though (this made it seem as if he just waltzed up alone). The only atrocity of Xiang Yu's that was left out was the loss of knowledge from burning the Imperial Library, which we are still feeling today. I think it did a fine job balancing the two. Liu Bang was a highly charismatic, witty, but shameless man. Xiang Yu was a noble, brave, but shortsighted and arrogant man. I think this did a good job of showing the differences between the two.
because all of these were recorded down by sima qian, who although was a han official, but he had great admirations for xiang yu, saying that he stayed honorable right to the very end, and unlike liu bang who was backstabber and womanizer that had many concubines, xiang yu only had Yuji. So i read that what he wrote about the founding emperor of han dynasty made the han emperor of the time very angry which is why he was castrated as punishment when he wrote the shi ji. But then again xiang yu was truly ruthless towards his enemies, it was said that every where he went, he left a trail of destruction and the way he buried 200k qin soldiers who have surrendered alive reminded people of the previous tyrant qin shi huang who has died just not too long ago.
@@lyhthegreat The burial incident did get mentioned in the previous video. But yeah, the whole reason he was isolated was that he was too genocidal to have allies.
That has little relevance to the world stage in our era. It is merely a time delineation, a lot of things were going on at around that era which makes it a good starting point for the Common Era.
@@HighPriestFuneral may i know what do you mean by *"a lot of thing"* Can you give me the significance ????? The Fact is we commemorate the year calendar because of *JESUS CHRIST* Learn History Respect History There are Buddhist Calendar commemorate Siddhartha Gauthama ascending to Nirvana There are Islamic Calendar Commemorate Muhammad doing Hijra There are Japanese Calendar Commemorate each Emperor ascend the throne (Meiji Era , Showa Era , etc) Why you always butt hurt with Jesus Christ , and delute the historical reason why our year started 2021 years ago ?
@@TheBECK321 Because those are religious calendars, while as the West has moved on from pure religion. Of course it is any Christian's right to use those titles, but society at large has moved past them. it is a vestigial reminder of a past, just like our month and day systems that specifically refer to Roman and Norse gods. As for other events, interestingly enough in 1 CE, Confucius was granted his first posthumous title in the Han court. Basically though the world was in a bit of a transformative state in many places. Han was ready to break apart under the yoke of Wang Mang (to be restored soon after, but that interregnum had an enormous effect on Chinese thought) and Augustus' Roman Empire was really starting to find its footing at about this point in time. Both sides of the long continent were experiencing enormous amounts of change and reform. It makes sense to base the calendar switch from BCE to CE at this time. (My knowledge of India and the Americas are scant during this period, so I'm afraid I can't offer much there). It is finally worth noting that many scholars believe the historian who first suggested the date of Jesus' birth was off by about five years, so... there's that.
@@TheBECK321 Jesus Christ was actually born several years before 0 ce. Therefore not true. Also if you want the actual religious name for ce (common era) it is AD (Anno Domini), “year of our lord” in Latin.
It's a cool story but like most Chinese historical stories it seems almost entirely fictional lol. Everything is always so mystical and poetic with Chinese history. A guy plays a flute and people sing a song so everyone on the other side just switched sides because the song was scary? Give me a break lol. The only part that seems completely true is the key to victory was placating a powerful and greedy general to get him and his soldiers on side, I'd imagine having more men sealed victory in the end and not a flute song. People tend to switch sides when against incredible odds when they absolutely don't have to fight on the losing side. Also what is it with Chinese history and women killing themselves? Chinese men like "HAHA WOMAN IS USELESS, GO KILL YOURSELF! RETAIN HONOUR AND RESPECT EVEN THOUGH YOU COULD TOTALLY REMARRY AFTER YOUR HUSBAND LOSES HIS WAR AND NOBODY WOULD CARE!".
A militaristic China under Xiang Yu would make a great premise for an alternate history novel. Feel free to steal the idea, and you're welcome.
Maybe xiang yu's china will absord Mongolia, Korea , and Yue earlier
I'm not knowledgeable enough to make any predictions, but damn, your videos are awesome. You put so much work into it... I hope you'll have lots of followers one day.
Xiangyu doesn't manage his generals well in terms of politics (not in terms of warfare). His empire won't grow too big.
Also, Xiangyu made several mistakes as a ruler. His empire was destined to fail even if Liu Bang died.
China was meant to be united, liu bang was just a vehicle.
He's too brutal and bloodthirsty. The dynasty he establish will be like the Qin dynasty, very powerful, but will dissolve as soon as he's dead.
Holy molly... what a twist! That flute technique, Xian last stand, the position of power that got Han and his demmands in order to aid his “Ally” was astonishing.... great video CJ really good
Not gonna lie, I came here AFTER I finished watching "War of Kings" from Netflix since it vaguely explained how Liu Bang defeated Xiang Yu at the Battle of Gaixia. Great job on explaining this!
P.S. Yeap, that "bowl of soup" was included lol
you should watch The Conqueror's Story(2000) on youtube(30 eps). It's fictionalized but entertaining & cover everything
@@aokhoinguyenang3992 yeah that was a great show, still the best one featuring this chu-han era..but one thing i don't like about that show is that it tried to potray liu bang as being forced to kill xiang yu when in actual fact, i think liu bang really wanted to betray him.
@@lyhthegreat Their relationship has passed beyond the point of no return years ago on turbo jetski
Xiang Yu's uncle Xiang Bo (the man who saved Liu Bang at the Hong Gate feast) was pardoned by the grateful Liu Bang when he became emperor and was even made a marquis.
Xiang yu is so honorable. Morale of the story: politics is dirty
yes but honor doesnt win empires. anyone with common sense knows this.
Be shameless.
You realize he buried people alive and kill innocent citizens right?
He is not... Watch King's War on Netflix and you'll understand his character
@@thisnthat7760 why not read some books about chinese history instead relying in films or movies. In the other words... do some research.
A family bed time story sometime during the Han Wen Di Era（漢文帝）
Grandson: Dad, I heard that our grandpa is a soldier from the state of Qin and our grandma is from state of Wei
Dad: Yes, your grandpa fought for Qin, help Qin unify China, while your grandma was a peasant girl lived peacefully in the wheat fields.
Grandson: Then, how he end up as a drifter?
Dad: There's inner strife in the Qin court, his army was crushed by the Zhao Gao's cup d tat, then he wander the countryside as a beggar.
Grandson: Then how grandpa meet grandma?
Dad: At the time state of Wei was conquered by Qin then later thrown into chaos, grandma also end up as a drifter, later grandpa wander into the former lands of Wei, saw your grandma starving, then he share his food with her, hence I was born.
Mum: To earn a living, your grandpa decided to join Liu Bang's army and fought bravely against Xiang Yu and the northern barbarians.
Grandpa: That's right, these swords was awarded by the Emperor Qin Shi Huang and Emperor Han Gao Zu themself as a sign of honour and respect.(Show off his two badass weapons)
Grandma: Alright, everyone it's late now, everyone go to sleep.
I appreciate this video a lot. Honestly came here after discovering the song yu xi tan and learned it was in a sense about this battle and wanted more backstory on it. Excellent job!
I used to like Xiang Yu very much, his image fits people's fantasy of a hero, compared to Liu Bang, people will think, why him? A man who is neither good at war nor good at planning finally gains the world. But I am gradually understanding Liu Bang's leadship and ambition are also very precious.Comparing to Liu Bang, Xiang Yu only wants to be a super king, and that wish was against the tide of times, the need of social and economic development and would not last long. So the talents would not serve for him.
if you think about it the three kingdoms era is kinda like a fanfiction of this, liu bei is liu bang with moral, lu bu is xiang yu, zhao yun is han xin, zhuge liang is zhang liang with magic powers if you read the novelization, hell even xiang yu suggest han xin to be cao cao by taking northern territory, either the three kingdom is a fanfic or god is playing with fate
I think it has a lot to do with the Chinese culture's emphasis on education and the study of history. The intellectuals back then could drop names from the most obscure part of history like crazy. So it is not strange that these warlords would also want to model themselves after their ancient heroes.
@Gringo Sinting i agree with you on the military skill, what i'm talking about is their circumstances, both are feared generals of their time and every enemies they faced will be thinking twice to fight them, both needs strategy to be defeated and not on equal footing, and if you stretch it they both got their ladies, so what i'm trying to say if three kingdoms is early han's fanfiction i think lu bu is in xiang yu's shoe and not to compare them, because the circumstances is really freaking similar, in my mind xiang yu is a mix of lu bu and the sun family, xiang yu is the most feared general and his base is from the east, liu bang is the same as liu bei with less the morals and his base is in shu (if you know sun-liu alliance then you know where this is going), lol maybe it's my mind that's crazy :3
@Gringo Sinting lol, ik that, but i'm not talking about their skill, i'm talking about circumstances, it's like god is playing with history the way earlier han is almost the same as three kingdoms, let me put it this way, as the video mentioned xiang yu and liu bang swore an oath to be brothers, lu bu i think making liu bei like a brother when lu bu was taking refuge in liu bei's base, or if that was wrong take the sun family as an example as i said above xiang yu is a mix of lu bu and sun family, when sun-liu alliance was formed liu bei married to sun family's daughter, and after liu bei taking shu the sun-liu alliance begin to collapse, just like liu bang after taking the capital that broke that oath with xiang yu, and about han xin to me he's like a mix of zhao yun and almost a cao cao, because han xin is a good warrior with amazing feat like conquering the north so fast, while zhao yun's feat is saving liu bei's son by charging through cao cao's army, which both are super hard to do but they both made it and when i said almost cao cao i mean if han xin would take the offer from xiang yu that would be like three kingdoms right? one north, one west, one east?
@Gringo Sinting that's what i'm talking about, it's like god thinking "hmmm... what am i going to do with han dynasty, it lasted long enough, and it's getting boring... oh! i know i think i can create a new dynasty but they will be the same as the beginning of han with a little bit of changes so that mortals cannot caught that i'm being lazy" thus three kingdoms were born with the changes are instead of qin it begins with yellow turban and dong zhuo and making han xin's choice in dividing china into 3, and making the combat skill to be the highlight for scholar (many three kingdoms character is highlighted by their individual skill instead of the military skill, like guan yu, lu bu, zhao yun. huang gai and cao ren were second compared to them, maybe because the startegy is the same as early han so they focus it on individual skills) and make the historical events kinda backwards and make more characters to fill the gap (lu bu taking refuge in liu bei, while xiang yu take liu bang of sorts, and instead of oath brothers like xiang yu and liu bang, they will be brothers in law by the wu army, in which i talked about xiang yu is a mix of lu bu and wu army), again you have to put your mind as a writer/novelist to see this *cough*luo guanzhong*cough* lol :3
Not really. Xiang Yu isn't a boor and had tactical mind in field and knows how to lead. Liu Bei simply used the good guy politician tactic to attract everyone who hates Cao Cao's extreme pragmatism and tolerance to his cruel generals, in reality Liu Bei is just the same, tolerating Zhang Fei's misdoings and him backstabing multiple times(opportunistic). In fact even his lineage is questionable. 3 kingdoms era is far more competitive than Liu Bang's lucky drive. So many strong factions fighting each other. The factions that Han Xin wiped out in the north are simply fodders.
Keep it up man! Great content.
This battle was fought in the same year Scipio fought Hannibal at Zama
It's crazy how many similarities Xiang Yu and Hannibal have in general. Both were incredible tacticians and excellent warriors who inevitably lost their respective wars.
@@richhartnell6233 they had massive differences in character though, and lost due to different factors. Xiang Yu failed because he was too pig-headed to listen to anyone but himself. He also underestimated Liu Bang and could not rule without employing brutality. Hannibal Barca failed because of a corrupt and incompetent senate back home not providing him with enough support. His enemy, Rome, also proved far more resilient and tenacious than anyone could've thought, powering through catastrophic defeats at Lake Trasimene and Cannae to grab ultimate victory.
In this sense, Hannibal was ironically more like Zhang Han, who was betrayed by the Qin court under Zhao Gao and left to fend for himself in isolation.
@@richhartnell6233 but liu bang was not as great as alexander the great, alex conquered his territories through sheer tactical ingenuity while liu bang on the other hand did it through breaking a peace treaty..
@@richhartnell6233 Hannibal was saner, though.
This goes to show how the smallest things can impact the entire course of history! Xiang Yu might have been the baddest warrior of the era, the strongest, bravest, etc...but he was clearly proud beyond belief. He never respected Han Xin when clearly he had a brilliant tactical mind. That disrespect led to defection and Han Xin literally single-handedly turned the entire course of history. Still, Han Xin is such a bastard! Sneaky sneaky sneaky. Also choosing to play a minor role in Liu Bang's united China was clearly his downfall regardless. He was too crafty and capable to be left to grow and instead was trickily betrayed and killed in turn only a few short years later.
Liu Bang is definitely shameless, but to the victor belongs the spoils!
Watch King's War on Netflix... Han Xin fault was he can't say no to his advisor.
Swapping one narcissist warlord for another changes almost nothing. If a leader is named in a historical text, especially in Chinese history, it's almost certain they had a net-negative impact on the overall welfare of the people.
Excellent video
Story teller at one of the streets in Ancient China! So so good!!!
If i was Han Xin, I would choose to be the master of my own realm than being a subordinate of another knowing that they can take my life at anytime they please.
That was his plan when he choose to side with Liu Bang as Liu Bang is easier to defeat if they are at war.
Han Xin is ignorant at everything other than military deployment. Like every nerve in his brain was dedicated to warfare. He was politically naive and very proud. He could have easily been the emperor if he wanted. He could have just waited Xiang Yu and Liu Bang to wear themselves out then attack them both, making Qi his powerbase at first.
He sided to go with the weaker of the two, I think he thought he could always take whatever he wants from a weak Emperor later. He was wrong.
Han Xin himself admitted that he was a leader armies, while Liu Bang was a leader of leaders. He knew where his a Liu Bang's talents were
Masterpiece！！
King Huai, Sima Xin, Fan Zang. Given Xiang Yu's history by the time the question of supporting him against Liu Bang was relevant, it would be clear that Xiang Yu was a dead end road, however I believe that it was always ever the flaws of Han Xin's personality that would always be his downfall either way. He had the ultimate mind for the time, but the improper heart required for longevity in tja
Came after Lay Zhang's Lit MV but woah Chinese history is so interesting
Han Xin, technically, the single person that has indirectly influence the chinese culture and traditions today. The side he had chosen, determined what is chinese culture today.
Who would you choose, if you were him?
As dirty as Liu Bang was, he helped to unify China
Xiang Yu would have been like Asia's Leonidas.
楚, 你们的专业是什么?! (Chǔ, Nǐ men de zhuānyè shì shénme?!/ Chu, what is your profession?!)
- Xiang yu, on his last stand near the Wu river, modern day Hu County, Anhui, 202 BC
The driver where Liu Bang threw his kids away was none other than his best general Fan Kuai the guy who disturbed the Hong Mun party
Would've been interesting if Xiang Yu escaped across river and continues struggle
I remember hearing another story that Lady Yu was captured by Han Xin, and used as bait to lure Xiang Yu into the 10 sided ambush. Lady Yu killed herself because she felt Xiang Yu's defeat was her own fault. Is that from any reputable sources, or just folklore?
It's folklore. I have heard of that version too but I just couldn't find it in any historical sources. I have to delete tons of folklore materials after I did my research, lol!
I LOOVE that song the 10 sided ambush.
@Gringo Sinting That's exactly the story I'm referencing. Do you know where it is from? I know it's not in the Shi Ji.
@Gringo Sinting I have actually been scouring for that event in Shiji, because I thought it happened too, but I can't find it. I think it might have been a legend.
What does the shiji say about that?
Lui Bang & Xiang Yu both were capable to be a ruler with their own shortcoming.
But Liu Bang was destined to be the emperors.
Han dynasty become a weak dynasty in the early state that had to paid tribute and one princess as a gift to Xiongnu since left by their great men.
If Xiang Yu & Han Xing become a Han general, Xiongnu had no changed at all.
Am I crazy or a genius to immediately think of the "sworn Brother means he's kinda also his father" solution? 🤣
why Xiang Yu has no capable subordinate to help him fight against Liu Bang?
Because he was genocidal (meaning nobody would surrender to him since there was a good chance he’d kill them) and a terrible politician.
Hearing your description of Xiang Yu’s rule, I can’t help but think that he would have created a China that seemed very much like Japan
I think. I found that girl who married to one of Chu royal family and she was from Xian yang's palace. It's just a speculation by the way.
Definitely would have followed the advice of the master strategies Fan Zeng, if he had, he would have been unstoppable. Unfortunately, ego kills many men.
Richard the Lionheart, but in China? Perhaps the closest comparison I can think of is Zhu Di and Li Shimin. But Richard thrived on warring in foreign lands.
Wow - I feel like if I were Han Xin I might have gambled for with the warring third in the hopes of eventually conquering the other two, but choosing to unite China was the faster more peaceful option -
Not so easy. Troop loyalty is at stake. Once Xiang Yu is able to recover he would be in a dangerous position. Han Xin is also not saint. Brilliant in commanding troops but failure at politics. Blackmailing for higher position shows greed. He wouldn't end up this way in the end if it wasn't for his greed. Zhang Liang is wisest and clear headed of them all.
I almost cry for xiang yu fate
yeah he was a tragic hero
The most stupid things what Xiang Yu did is he is not making him self an emperor after conquer Xian Yang, he have the strongest army at the time, have good tactician like Fan Zeng, he also have many famous general including ex Qin general like Zhang Han & Sima Xin .. Xiang Yu wasting an opportunity from heaven & ended dying as a broken man
sounds like it but not that easy, as liu and xiang are sworn brothers too remember? if they team up he'd be finished. he had to chose one of them as master
If i were han xin, i will choose with liu bang.
If i joined xiang yu and help him win over liu bang, the common people will live under warlord with warrior mindset, it will be hard time with tyrant leadership.
*ps i love your channel and waiting for next eastern han until sui era
Liu Bang turned into more of a paranoid tyrant late in life and started executing the people (including Han Xin) who helped to gain power. He also put his family members into power as nobles of several semi-autonomous states within the Han Empire, which led to eventual corruption and another giant civil war a few decades later. Xiang Yu wanted more of a decentralized Confederation of feudal states that had broad autonomy, so Xiang Yu wouldn't have had much direct influence of the common people outside of his directly ruled domain. Under Xiang Yu, China would have turned into something more like the Europe with the European Union or something.
Liu Bang was a warlord as well...
Difference is Xiang Yu was not a degenerate and was quite virtuous compare to Liu Bang who frequently broke truce.
As intranet said, Xiang Yu was more of a Confucianist who wanted to make a feudal confederation to that of the early Huaxia. He also had a strong belief of Heaven as that of Mozi. Liu Bang on the other hand is recorded as executing Confucians and pissing in their hats.
Yep i would choose liu bang aswell. We cant forget Xiang Yu killed 200,000 POWs. What a devil
@@fumaaa5643 But Liu Bang also killed his friends who helped him become emperor. So you're screwed if you are an enemy of Xiang Yu, and screwed if you are a friend of Liu Bang.
@goff0103 Xiang Yu was cruel to his enemies but extremely loyal to his friends. Liu Bang was more practical/Machiavellian about his enemies, but later turned on and betrayed his friends. So if I was Han Xin and I could choose to be friends with either Xiang Yu or Liu Bang, then I'd choose to be friends with and serve Xiang Yu.
Xiang yu doesn't have beard like in 1994 movie
Based on Sima Qian's record , Liu Bang had a full beard and was about 1.8m tall, and Xiang Yu only had some moustache and was about 1.86m tall. The Han dynasty mural painting also depicts Xiang Yu as having only some moustache instead of beard.
@@XuerLi i think he meant the xiang yu in this video...also xiang yu died relatively young, around 30 and having a full beard was probably more popular for older men during that era.
General Yiang Yu.. which I prefer
Why was xiao ker jailed, since he was loyal to liao bong
Xiao He got too good at his job and the citizens started to like him more than Liu Bang. Rather than get himself killed for threatening Liu Bang's rule, he orchestrated a corruption charge on himself. It it better to be jailed momentarily than be executed for a trumped up treason charge.
@@CoolHistoryBros so he plotted a smear campaign against himself? smart man
@@CoolHistoryBros Ironically, this was one of the few instances where corruption made a person look good: too greedy for petty-cash and material pleasures to be aspiring to imperial greatness.
Zhang Liang the spiritual advisor mentioned this when parting ways with Liu Bang "When the arrows are finished, and there is nothing to hunt, you start to cook and eat your hunting dogs"
- Xiang Yu seems comparable to Toyotomi Hideyoshi. Strong, militaristic, invincible and merciless... Probably Han Xin would've overthrwon him... fanfic!
nah xiang yu is more like nobunaga..brillant general until he was betrayed towards the end
great video again, since liu bang served qin before hand, I have a feeling that liu wanted to continue qin's legacy, i.e. to form a greater china, I could be wrong just opinion only. after his death, his wife Lu hou almost set every backward to pre-qin, if not her than any other elements or personages or competing forces would be glad to set back the clock, but some how, miraculously china stayed united as one, very unlike europe ..
if i were han xin i would side with xiang yu. Because xiang yu value his own soldier and loyalty, he might nt get killed
Han Xin already in Xiang Yu side before, but Xiang Yu just make him a guarding camp soldier .. even after one of Xiang Yu famous general recommendation him, Xiang Yu still look down to him, so Han Xin decided to leave Xiang Yu & join Liu Bang
xiang yu was too arrogant and too full of himself to acknowledge han xin's talents, which drove han xin to look for another lord elsewhere, this is one of xiang yu's many critical mistakes..which he still didn't admit towards his end..he even said that "it was the heaven's will that cause him his defeat, not because of the mistakes he made.
Xiang Yu doesn't have the ability to accept wise advice from a man of humble status and even his most respected adviser was deserted eventually, and Han Xin knew that clearly. Actually Han Xin had served Xiang Yu before coming to Liu Bang. And Han Xin was killed by Lv zhi and Xiao He rather than by Liu Bang.
See the almost same video many years ago on chinese video app Billibilli,but this English version is much more interesting
Why do I feel like this video is biased towards Xiang Yu
Sima Qian was biased towards Xiang Yu. He was the one who started it. Lol!
@@CoolHistoryBros can u do one on asian martial arts why its so unorthodox and fluid compare to western martial arts
@@ajithsidhu7183 asian martial arts came from india by an indian monk and was introduced to shaolin i think..there were no western martial arts until recently with the invention of boxing and UFC which was inspired by bruce lee's philosophies.
@@lyhthegreat that's story is largely fictional
@@zhugeliangkongming479 not sure if it's fake but from what i've always heard, Bodhidharma aka 達磨 in china was the founder of the shaolin kung fu. He also came to china to spread Buddhism. If he is fictional, then what is the origin of shaolin kungfu?
Please list music used rather than just "Epidemic Sound"
Yeah Liu bang doesn’t keep his words for shit. Can’t make any agreement with such scam
Han Xin should be emperor instead of Liu Bang who is a bastard.
Lol the people here romanticizing xiang yu; pretty sure he would've been a tyrant if he won the war
Xiang Yu was interesting. It didn't appear as if he wanted to be an Emperor. By all appearances it seems he was trying to set things back to the Spring and Autumn, where each kingdom ruled as it saw fit, with a hegemon to maintain order, of course, which would be him.
@@HighPriestFuneral did qin shi huang not do the same thing? like having different generals to rule different parts of his empire?
@@lyhthegreat Ah, you touched upon an important difference. "General" (And civil governors) not King or Duke. Qin Shi Huang understood that these nobles, tied to the land for generations, would only seek to increase their power. That is why Qin Shi Huang brought many of the nobles of the other ruling houses to live in Qin. Even made copies of their palaces, firstly, so they could feel "at home" and secondly so he could rule over his own "mini China" while ruling... over China, haha.
Xiang Yu does not appear to have believed in unification as an end goal, he wanted to be the Overlord (霸王), which is just the nominal leader of the various kings and dukes (rather than sovereign and sacred lord, as the emperors were) and planned for all other lands to maintain their independence in some fashion.
Sou descendente da família Han. Pena que não tem tradução para o Português!
If i were han Xin i would choose Xiang yu
And who do you think would be next when Xiang Yu finished with Liu Bang? There is no compromising solution with an ambitious mad-man, only a slower demise....
It's impossible. Xiang Yu hated Han Xin. Prior to serve Liu Bang, Han Xin served Xiang Yu first. But Xiang Yu rejected him simply because he didn't want a competitor under his camp.
@@gunh4129 I thought it was because he saw Han Xin as a weakling due to him not being particularly tough or buff looking? Xiang Yu was basically a jerk jock who looked down on and belittled nerds like Han Xin.
@@barbiquearea han xin was quite the asshole himself as well, he blackmailed liu bang when liu bang was trapped in a siege and needed reinforcements but he refused to send aid until liu bang agreed to confer him new titles and fiefs..tbh his end was partly his own fault..
Is it just me or is this series immensely biased towards Xiang Yu and exaggerating Liu Bang's shortcomings?
I don't think so. It seems balanced, they talk about both the good and the bad of the both.
Liu Bang wasn't that fantastic of a fellow, it would have been nice to hear about the tactic that Liu Bang used to take Xianyang though (this made it seem as if he just waltzed up alone). The only atrocity of Xiang Yu's that was left out was the loss of knowledge from burning the Imperial Library, which we are still feeling today. I think it did a fine job balancing the two. Liu Bang was a highly charismatic, witty, but shameless man. Xiang Yu was a noble, brave, but shortsighted and arrogant man. I think this did a good job of showing the differences between the two.
Nope
It's the fact
because all of these were recorded down by sima qian, who although was a han official, but he had great admirations for xiang yu, saying that he stayed honorable right to the very end, and unlike liu bang who was backstabber and womanizer that had many concubines, xiang yu only had Yuji. So i read that what he wrote about the founding emperor of han dynasty made the han emperor of the time very angry which is why he was castrated as punishment when he wrote the shi ji. But then again xiang yu was truly ruthless towards his enemies, it was said that every where he went, he left a trail of destruction and the way he buried 200k qin soldiers who have surrendered alive reminded people of the previous tyrant qin shi huang who has died just not too long ago.
@@lyhthegreat
The burial incident did get mentioned in the previous video. But yeah, the whole reason he was isolated was that he was too genocidal to have allies.
Han Xin could have conquered both.
That voice. Now where did I heard it before? Oh, yeah, Mulan the animation. Hollywood stereotype of Chinese accent. Nutz.
Before Christ Era
That has little relevance to the world stage in our era. It is merely a time delineation, a lot of things were going on at around that era which makes it a good starting point for the Common Era.
@@HighPriestFuneral may i know what do you mean by *"a lot of thing"*
Can you give me the significance ?????
The Fact is we commemorate the year calendar because of *JESUS CHRIST*
Learn History
Respect History
There are Buddhist Calendar commemorate Siddhartha Gauthama ascending to Nirvana
There are Islamic Calendar Commemorate Muhammad doing Hijra
There are Japanese Calendar Commemorate each Emperor ascend the throne (Meiji Era , Showa Era , etc)
Why you always butt hurt with Jesus Christ , and delute the historical reason why our year started 2021 years ago ?
@@TheBECK321 Because those are religious calendars, while as the West has moved on from pure religion. Of course it is any Christian's right to use those titles, but society at large has moved past them. it is a vestigial reminder of a past, just like our month and day systems that specifically refer to Roman and Norse gods.
As for other events, interestingly enough in 1 CE, Confucius was granted his first posthumous title in the Han court. Basically though the world was in a bit of a transformative state in many places. Han was ready to break apart under the yoke of Wang Mang (to be restored soon after, but that interregnum had an enormous effect on Chinese thought) and Augustus' Roman Empire was really starting to find its footing at about this point in time. Both sides of the long continent were experiencing enormous amounts of change and reform. It makes sense to base the calendar switch from BCE to CE at this time. (My knowledge of India and the Americas are scant during this period, so I'm afraid I can't offer much there).
It is finally worth noting that many scholars believe the historian who first suggested the date of Jesus' birth was off by about five years, so... there's that.
@@TheBECK321 Jesus Christ was actually born several years before 0 ce. Therefore not true. Also if you want the actual religious name for ce (common era) it is AD (Anno Domini), “year of our lord” in Latin.
It's a cool story but like most Chinese historical stories it seems almost entirely fictional lol. Everything is always so mystical and poetic with Chinese history. A guy plays a flute and people sing a song so everyone on the other side just switched sides because the song was scary? Give me a break lol. The only part that seems completely true is the key to victory was placating a powerful and greedy general to get him and his soldiers on side, I'd imagine having more men sealed victory in the end and not a flute song. People tend to switch sides when against incredible odds when they absolutely don't have to fight on the losing side.
Also what is it with Chinese history and women killing themselves? Chinese men like "HAHA WOMAN IS USELESS, GO KILL YOURSELF! RETAIN HONOUR AND RESPECT EVEN THOUGH YOU COULD TOTALLY REMARRY AFTER YOUR HUSBAND LOSES HIS WAR AND NOBODY WOULD CARE!".