I just love human ingenuity. Think of how useful these analog devices are. In the age of computerized everything, it’s easy to forget just how much of that “old” technology we still use all the time.
As someone who has no plumbing experience and is thinking of changing careers late in my life, I greatly appreciate the visual (pipe cut in half) and explanation of how it works. Thank you.
When I was a kid, we were at the end of a 5 mile long, 24 inch gravity fed irrigation pipe for the farm. We would have to change the pipe twice per day, which would involve opening and closing that valve. My dad strictly warned us to close the valve slowly and to watch the pressure gauge carefully, especially when we closed it. It normally ran at 130 psi, (household is about 40 psi) but if you closed it too quickly, you could see spikes at 200 psi or more. Shortly after I went off to college, my dad sold the place. The next year, he showed me an article in the paper where that pipe burst and caused some $200 k in damages. We knew exactly what happened.
@@jimjohnson394 I wonder if he told the new owners about this? If he did, my experience is people don't remember me info at new places unless written down, and even then they tend not to take it seriously until they wish they had.
We had this problem at my work, whenever they used a pressure washer and released the trigger, the hose connector at the water outlet would spray a bit and a loud bang be heard within the wall. As soon as I noticed it, I told the technicians about it. Nothing was done. Two pressure washers started leaking within one week. They bought another version. The water outlet started leaking. They changed it and put a stronger seal. Some months later, water was coming out of the walls on the other side. As they were tearing the wall down I just had to say "If only someone had told you about this before".
were these technicians awake, or were they cardboard cutouts ? if they did nothing, then they should be called " ornaments " as ornaments are there on show, but have no functionality. I once used a pressure washer, and my neighbour knock at my front door, to say it was shaking their water pipes about, we had a shared mains water supply, so I fill a clean dust bin up with water, open to atmospheric air pressure, put the water supply hose into the dust bin of water one end, and connected the supply hose to the jet washer after getting the air out of it, and it worked without any problems, it was isolated from the mains water supply, the jet washer sucked in the water by it self.end of problem. well a quich solution.
You can save your plumbing pipes and pressure washers by always, or nearly always, having the pressure washer's sprayer trigger in the ON position. If you want to stop using the pressure washer, shut it down by turning off the motor while the water is still spraying out. Result: no more water hammer nor pressure washer wear and tear. When you begin using a pressure washer, first always have the pressure washer trigger in the on position. Once you have it in the on position, then, and only then, turn on the motor.
My home clothes washer. The pipe went by and under the wooden flooring of the kitchen. It became nicked with the hammering over time and so the entire floor boards became warped with being damp underneath and dry on top. Took a long time to dry and the outside wall needed to be opened to get access to the pipe.... An absolute pain of a job and all could have been saved with an arrester.... Don't anyone risk it without one on all valves other than perhaps just hand taps. Even then you ask everyone to turn them off slowly.
Khaled thank you so much, I really appreciate your comment, the animations are what take time in these videos and I know they help with understanding what I am talking about, very happy you noticed that, have a great day buddy!
Nice animation. In Australia houses should be 500kpa anything above damages internals of plumbing parts. If there is water hammer we put pressure reducing valves this gets rid of most water hammer and damages of water pressure above 500kpa
The entire building (24 floors) of the apartment I lived at got this problem. Every night when people start showering, I hear hammering noises until 12:00am. Can't really sleep until then without putting on my bose qc20.
Send them this vid. If they value their building and don't want it water damaged by a burst pipe, this is cheap insurance. Happy tenants also tend to renew, so it pays for itself that way as well. It is very likely they just don't know this is the problem and figure it's no big deal.
@@nateman10 10s of thousands of dollars. Probably costs 5 to 10 dollars for the PVC version of this. Most plumbing is PVC now. One or two of these installed would probably suffice for a large house. Installation would be relatively cheap. If I was a landlord I would play dirty. There are easy ways to evict someone and there are hard ways. Sometimes you gatta stop playing fair.
I think you just saved me from a hell lot of fixes and expenses, because my homes plumbing system is crap. Every time I shut a valve or tap, there is a painful to hear sound like demolishing buildings
I have a house that has some pretty bad banging pipes, what I found from experimentation and reading some plumbing forums is that the closer to the valve the better. I have had arrestors placed both near to the shutoff for a washing machine and also directly placed in the inlet for the washing machine. In the configuration where the arrester was close to the inlet for the washing machine hammer was eliminated completely. Also, in the video above you show the size A 652-A arrestor which works much better than their 'washing machine' variant of size 'AA'. Based on my experience so far I wouldnt ever get a mini-rester as Sioux Chief calls them. The Size A unit is tested at a life cycle of 500,000 cycles and 20,000 shock cycles, if you look at the different arresters available on the market make sure to look at the O-ring material and the piston material.
Our local volunteer fire department sometimes uses a fire hydrant outside of their building. Sometimes they open it wide open and the water pressure drops a bit. The problem is that they sometimes shut it too quickly. It seems like the last 3 times they did this, it would send pressure surging down the line and we'd see some damage at either water meters or some joints under the ground. Each time the water company would fix it and the volunteer fire department acted like they knew nothing.
I know a retired water co. Worker that was flushing hydrants one day, and closed the valve a little faster than he should’ve, blew another hydrant 3 blocks down the street!
Yah. The fire department I work for trains us not to do that. Apparently one of our stations destroyed all the fittings for a farms irrigation system once😶
Dunno if you remember, but a few weeks ago I asked about low flow in my shower. You said it was probably clogged or bad cartridges. You were right. I disassembled them and the cold water valves were clean but the hot water valves were a mess with mineral deposits. I have private well water and always knew my water was hard, and learned that hot water causes the minerals in hard water to deposit. So I installed a water softener on the cold water line going to my furnace and cleaned my hot water fixture valves. So now I'll be curious to see how well it keeps the hot circuits clear of deposits. Thanks for the tip 👍
Practical engineering did an awesome demo of a water hammer from quickly turning off water where pressure goes from 60psi to a sudden 200psi in a split second for just turning off water
3 года назад+27
I learned something today, I will implement this in my home ASAP even if the piping is made of highly forgiving hdpe. And you might learn something today, too: copper metal and oxides are very good bactericides and fungicides. They also kill or inhibit some nematodes and larvae. No worries about stuff growing in the copper pipes.
WELL, IM 78 YRS. OLD AND I LEARNED SOMETHING. MAKES A LOT OF SENCE TO ME. I HAVE SEEN THOSE DEAD LEGS IN WALLS BEFORE, I NEVER THOUGHT WHAT THEY WERE FOR.
Extremely helpful I dabble in plumbing as I’m in the HVAC field but am renovating a house from 79. There’s no arrestors throughout the house and with the new appliances and faucets I’m sure without them it will cause issues.
@@uski emergency shutdown valves and other isolation valves have long closure times so flow is stopped gradually. For unavoidable scenarios they have over pressure relief devices that will open to relieve pressure to a low pressure area like a storage tank.
With the trash they put into the water you might as well have sewage coming out your faucets. That's the reason plastic bottled water exists the idiots at the municipal water departments have made it unpotable.
@@not1au : it's up to you if you want to drink microplastics from the bottles themselves. I do agree that some municipal water is unsafe - but not all of it. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6141690/
Very cool. As a young man I had run across “dead end T joints” while doing remodel demos.. Now I know what they were, and why they were there. Subscribe!
I think you may of solved an issue at my families business that no one knew this could of been the cause. In the employee hallway that runs a good length of the building there are 2 major water pipes that run most of the length. For some reason in the past couple of years there’s been a noticeable shake in one of the pipes that would happen periodically. They thought the straps were loose or it needed more reinforcement. Now I know what the cause is thanks to this video!
Pretty good as an introduction to water hammer, but: If water piping is sized to keep flow velocity below 4 feet per second most water hammer effects are eliminated or greatly reduced. The flow can even be restricted after the quick closing valve with a restricted orifice aerator or other device to reduce flow velocity. Also, a great percentage of newer plumbing is with PEX flexible pipe. PEX is flexible enough to absorb much of the water hammer effects as the surrounding air does the same thing as the trapped air in an air chamber or engineered water hammer arrester. Proper sizing and resilient materials can eliminate the need for air chambers or arresters in most cases.
@@ajeebbeliever8857 In your case I suspect that it is either not supported in the right places, or has no slack, or both. It should not do that when properly installed. Also from experience I think it's better to move up a size when using PEX compared to metal, which your plumber didn't.
I am a plumber since 1977, master license MP 4125 state of Arkansas, formerly Texas master license as well. makes a nice video but not entirely true. O-rings wear out. shock arresters should be installed primarily in commercial applications where they are accessible and never in walls. they are a mechanical device, they wear out, thats why they must be accessible. 99% of residential plumbing in america has never has shock arrestors and does not need them.
Had to scroll way too far down for this comment. While all the technical info in this video is basically true, the title and calling it mandatory is HORRIBLY misleading. Never once seen these in a a house and never once seen an issue because they weren't there 🤦♀️
@@chrish4439 They are mandatory where I live. There are a pair of them installed in my house behind the clothes washer. They are required by a township ordinance. My township is somewhat less than 100 square kilometers. Travel 10 km in any direction, and you will be in a different jurisdiction, and the laws will probably be different.
you are a terrific educator, especially as you know what you are talking about, unlike alot of others, who give misinformation, which in turn causes unnecessary problems, like " the blind leading the blind " I appreciate your goodness in sharing " hands on " experience, and plumbing principles and practice.
Dude I love your videos. I learned to solder copper pipes overnight because of you, my dad would never teach me, said it was some inherited skill he'd gotten from his father... lol. I did it your way and my joints look better than his did. God rest his soul I wish he was here to see it.
In work they have a sink and an instant water heater fitted. For whatever reason they fitted a pressure gauge on the cold pipe. Well if you turn the tap on and of quickly/violently you can see the water pressure reading on the gauge almost double.
That was informative, thanks! For the record, water *is* compressible (or else sound couldn't travel through water), but its compressibility is much much smaller than air.
Only gases dissolved in water are compressible; not the water itself. Water is so incompressible that if a piston engine ingests water, or even too much fuel, it can break the pistons and rods- in a high performance car engine.
@@jamesengland7461 Okay, but water (like all fluids) IS compressible, though as I said, much less so than gases (including air). It's not the gases dissolved in water, but simple, pure water is compressible.
I’m planning on buying a home within a year , so I’m watching videos like this. I’ll be back with an update. Hello & Good luck to all my 1st time home owners out there WE GOT THIS
Interesting. Can't say why exactally, but this isn't used here in Brazil, and we don't have the problem with noise in the Pipes. Maybe for lack of preasure.
Funny how I used to think that water hammer was due to the inertia of water which weighs a kilo per liter travelling down a pipe very quickly and coming to a halt suddenly and having nothing to dampen the shock. But now I know that it's actually due to the water being deflected back up the pipe like a tennis ball. I guess you learn something new every day
Years ago I had a toilet that would bang so severely when the fill valve shut off, that the plastic fitting cracked after a few years, and the water leak damaged the walls and ceiling in the room below. After the third time it happened, I turned down the water flow to that toilet, and that worked. If these arresters were available then, I might have installed one. However, I don't see what prevents the gas from slowly leaking past the o-rings, making regular replacement necessary. Regardless, an arrester must cost far less than fixing all that water damage.
This comment provided more information on "why water hammer arresters are so important" than the whole video. I already know what they are and how they work, but was wondering what kind of things happen without one
I did not know. I'm glad I watched & learned. I have had my water service turned off in the past due to lack of funds. When I pay up & the water company(Great Basin, the worse company I've ever delt with) turns the main back on , they give it a quick wide open & it bangs so hard I am surprised it hasn't ruptured a line somewhere. Thanks for the good video.
We bought a 1960s house and modern washing machine. Yup, *intense* water hammer. It only took a few months to cause cause a leak in these old pipes. Now we have flexible pex plumbing that can absorb a little of the shock, and in-line hammer arrestors on the washer lines.
Water hammer can also be caused by loose pipes that are not properly secured/strapped down and from excessive water pressure from what I understand.I could be wrong but wouldn't an expansion tank work just as well as water hammer arrestors?Good video by the way.God bless you and yours.
Not really unless you put the exp tank at the location of every spigot. in order for this to work it needs to be at the end of the run, otherwise its like putting bumper springs on the rear bumper and then driving forward into a brick wall
@@integr8er66 you are right and wrong. take again your rear-spring bumber car smashed into a brick wall then add another car following behind. All the water behind will still take use of the of the air tank, which will still reduce not all but some of the increasing pressure.
@@TwinShards Yes I agree, the water before the Exp tank will be cushioned, any after won't. I totally agree with that, so I suppose it would help. To the Victor my good man!
I’ve installed this same brand Sioux Chief devices at my washing machine bibs. Problem is the have to be changed out occasionally. In my case over time the piston freezes up inside maybe due to hard water deposits. Also as someone else stated copper is antibacterial so shouldn’t be a problem with stagnant water.
Could be you have super harsh water, gotta get that checked out if you do, any component is exposed to premature failure if it's the case.
4 года назад+2
Lime scale build up does that. However, there can be several other factors such as sediment getting embedded in the neoprene seals on the piston, not cleaning flux out after sweating, water pressure not regulated and incorrect install, like crimping the arrestor body. Assuming residential, install a whole home water filter or even a pair. The primary with a basic sediment filt0er and sec2ondary with an activated charcoal filter. This will eliminate sediment and greaty reduce limescale extending the life of seals , appliances, fixtures and devices such as arrestors. Of course, replace damaged components.
@Pee Tee A better solution is an empty vertical column of air, then drain your whole system when they stop working and they will work again, but when these fail you must replace them to fix the problem.
@OK Boomer It all depends on the flow rate and pipe size, you want to increase the size enough to reduce the flow rate but not so much that the water becomes stagnated and grows things.
I had a bathroom restoration and I learned about this the hard way. After everything was completed I heard a noise every time someone in the house shut off the water until I contacted a Plummer that fix it for me. You can imagine I have to break the new installed wall from the other room (I was lucky on that since I didn’t have to take down the travertine walls in the shower) to put the arrester.
Be prepared to install water hammer arrestors at AQUOR hose hydrants if the pipes are accessible nearby. I have 3 of these modern hose bibs and they shut the water off very quickly and i have experienced water hammer multiple times when removing the hose connector. After watching this vid, I plan on installing water hammer arrestors in my crawlspace close to each hose hydrant to remedy this. Thank you very much for the insight.
My parents bought a ranch style house built in the 70s. When I come to visit. There is bumping sound of a pipe between the master bedroom bathroom and guest bathroom all day long. And it's not us using water. It's from all the neighborhood. So I guess we need to open up the wall.
Yes, if you want to further investigate., it's most probably that there are no water hammer arresters and that the pipes aren't properly attached to the building, let us know!
Use an air chamber, it is more effective and a lot cheaper to install. Once per year you will need to drain your water to refill the air pocket. Hammer arresters are useless for large amounts of water hammer
RICHARD MARTIN ... This is a common problem on a dead end road, with a dead end water main, especially if you are near the end. Extrol makes an expansion tank that can be installed where your supply first enters the house. It's similar to what's used on a common boiler but rated for around 100 psi operating pressure. Inside this small tank looking device is a rubber bladder that holds air and it will outlast any of these things shown in the video above. Another thing to look at is if the water pressure is excessive from the main supply. Anything over 50 - 60 psi range is just asking for water hammer issues.... and it's common to see over 100 psi from a public water main. Installing a pressure regulator might be your first step if this is the case.
another tip to prevent some hammering on faucet and some toilets is to put a restrictor or inline 1/4 ball valve half closed between the line and angle valve.. when the tap is open it creates a pressure differential across the restrictor when the tap closes it takes a few milliseconds for the pressure to equalize.. even turning the angle a few turns in to restrict some of the flow
I can tell you first-hand at how damaging water hammer can be. Back years ago the Fire Service had Front Mount Pumps on the trucks. Well FF would shutoff a inch and half (1¹/² ) valve without any warning to the pump operator, and kaaabang the shockwave would either blow a valve apart or if you got lucky another hose team would all of sudden be hit with about 150-170 psi. I've seen valves blown off as well as hoses blown apart.
Very good.Generally,water hammer occurs,when there is a high water pressure issue.Also water hammer arrestors,come for cold,hot water,or both. Although this device can be found on hardware stores,go where plumbers and contractors shop.
Great info. I brought the video to our condo admin’s attention cause there’s massive knocking in our bathroom wall when the kitchen faucet is closed, even slowly. They’re not interested claiming water hammers are not destructive. 🤬
Hard water destroys those water hammer then they turn in to dead legs any ways. As long as you strap the pipe correctly u shouldn't he any issue the city has water towers for that reason but great video
Makes sense, I used to have to replace them every year or so since they would quit working. My town switched to Lake Michigan water about 3 years ago and I have not had to replace any since.
Umm, no. It isn't just the movement of the pipes that damage the joints, it's the localized increase in pressure too. Sometimes as much as 8x the nominal water pressure. Old fashioned stand pipes last as long as the rest of the piping in the house, just need to drain the house system occasionally to get the water out and refill the pipe's air chamber. No one does it anymore, that's why code is being changed. To accommodate stupid lazy people. All manufactured anti water hammer devices will fail no matter what you do.
Thanks so much. We have an LG washer and really needed 2 of these. Prior to viewing your video, I wasn’t aware they existed. I’ve learned a lot from you.
Stand pipe anti-hammer devices work way longer than "a few weeks" as was stated, generally a year or more before , GASP, a little maintenance is required! Simply shut off water main valve and open both faucets to drain the system to get the water out of the stand pipe. Properly sized, installed, and maintained these will last as long as the rest of the copper piping. Hard water deposits destroy the manufactured air chamber types and need replacement no matter what you do. How long depends on the degree of hardness in the water. There is a very remote chance of bacteria breeding in this stagnant water and the manufactured units also have an amount of stagnant water, just less. The manufactured water hammer arrestors are required because people have become lazy and stupid. Same reason many cars have sealed transmissions, people are lazy and stupid. Your videos are great and informative, this one just leaves out quite a few facts to justify using a product that will fail because of its design and need an expensive replacement, sometimes in a few short years.
Hammer is usually an urban problem where water pressure is higher. Rural (well) water systems don't often see this issue because of lower pressure (nom 30 PSI) and the effect is also mitigated by the pressure tank.
I see this in well systems all the time, usually in irrigation with long pipe runs of undersized pipework. The shock wave can be easily 10 times the system pressure and it blows the pump in half.
I lived in the country my entire life, the most common well pressure is in the 50-60 psi range. I've never even seen a pressure switch that topped out at 30 psi.
@@TKCL There are two typical pressure switches: 30/50 and 40/60. The 30/50 is the most common setup and 30 psi is the cut-on pressure and 50 psi the cut-off pressure. Nearly all pressure tanks come precharged to 28 psi for this reason. So a typical well system will have an idle pressure between 30 and 50 psi. So, to your point, a well system doesn't "top out" at 30 psi but is still referred to as a "30 psi nominal system". On the other hand, municipal water systems typically deliver anywhere from 45 to 80 psi with 60 psi being the target norm.
As a water mitigation technician in Alaska where pipe bursts and leaks are stupid common... this is cool. I don’t think I’ve come across a home with this yet. Most are older. Must be why we get so many jobs.
I have air dead-leg type anti-water hammer pipe chambers in the cold water pipework of my old home, they work very well to suppress pipe rattling noise for about 1 year each time after I drain the water out of the cold water pipework system to refill the air in them. I tired of doing this annual air refill draining work, so I arranged for a plumber to install several of these simple sealed piston type water hammer suppressors next to each automatic on/off valve after plumber gushed with enthusiasm about them and I saw many endorsing RUclips videos like this and vendor websites saying how effective they were. It seems that the piston seems to be pushed up and suspended a little up inside its sealed cylinder by static line pressure when the pipework system is at rest, and then a pressure spike from a nearby closing valve pushes it up even further, absorbing that surge to protect cold water pipework, prevent rattling noise etc as designed. Fine. But I find a problem that whenever a remote cold water valve opens somewhere in my home, those suspended pistons variously rush down in response to the momentary dip in line pressure, causing an irritating 'thump' noise when each piston hits the narrow neck of its cylinder. This problem would be eliminated if a stainless steel spring where to be installed by the manufacturer between the piston and that narrow neck of its cylinder. Meanwhile I am looking around for an alternative anti-water hammer protection device which looks like two metal cups joined together with a continuous rubber diaphragm separating them, one cup blind/filled with air, and the other cup connected to the pipework. That way the flexing rubber diaphragm will noiselessly absorb pressure surges and pressure dips. Anybody know/recommend such an diaphragm anti-water hammer device? Thank you.
“Some objects and liquids are compressible” - all liquids are incompressible, at least hydraulically speaking. Scientifically speaking a liquid’s compressibility is the same as the inverse of it’s bulk modulus, so water is one of the most “compressible” of liquids while as say liquid mercury is one of the least. For example, putting water under pressure at 500 bar actually does reduce the volume of the water by about 2%.
Aren’t some solid materials more compressed than the liquid for the same element? Meaning some liquid materials should be compressible into their solid counterparts?
@@LKRaider yes, it depends on the phase diagram for the liquid but for example you can definitely compress water into ice at temperatures higher than freezing. Can google ice 6 or ice 7. Can get ice at high pressure (1 gigapascal) at up to like 300 kelvin or 80 something F.
Wouldn’t a liquid that was gas saturated be compressible? Seems pedantic to ask, but gas saturation levels could add a degree of compressibility to any permeable liquid in a closed system like say a brewery or soft drink bottling application.
@@dennischavez7503 I would think it would be the opposite, if you saturate a liquid with solutes then you’re filling the empty intermolecular spaces with solids, gases or other liquids. if you compress a liquid youre pushing the molecules next to each other and filling the intermolecular spaces that way. but I guess I’m not 100% sure. intuitively I dont think youre right, though. it seems like except for volume an already compressed liquid and a saturated liquid would be very similar.
I did one for my sprinkler. The hammer was so bad, the pipes would jump 1/8 inch and hit another pipe. Anyways, I didn't expect it, but it actually helped the whole house.
ours got started by accident and fixed by accident. we installed a new kitchen faucet to a galvanized pip and problem started . we changed the fixture hot and cold with pex for 20feet and problem got solved .
Finally....a perfect explanation! But....where and how many if more that one is needed would you place the arrestor...right after the main water supply shutoff, in each bathroom's toilet?
i think the problem on the air chamber is the soldered cap,that will leak the air with time, but the arrester is a continuous cup. anyway,maybe shutting off the water and draining the water should "reset" all the air chambers on the system.
@@xiro6 If that would be the case, then you would know, because being on a pressurized line, it would be leaking water. It is as the video explains, over time the flow of water up and down the pipe absorbs the air inside it. Remember when you sometimes open a tap to pour yourself a glass of water, without letting it run a bit and you look at the glass to see that the water looks cloudy due to having a lot of fine bubbles in it. That is an example of water that has absorbed air that was it the line, as it was passing through. As for the synthetic o-rings, while they do wear away over time, in this application, it will literally be a lifetime, if not more. The reason is that they tampon moves very little in actual usage, as well, the wet surface of the tube acts as a lubricant that mitigates the friction between the two surfaces. Lastly, most of the time the change and oscillation in line pressure is not significant enough to cause it to move, so unlike a shock absorber on a car, which is essentially built and operates in the same manner, as the hammer arrester, they are dormant for most of their time in use. Nor, by being inside a dark sealed tube are the materials affected by UV light or ozone, which can also cause the materials of the tampon to deteriorate over time.
This is why it might be a good idea to replace the water hammer arresters after a few years. And when you do so, open them to check if it was needed or not. If it was, increase the replacement frequency. If it was not, decrease it. There could be more scientific ways to see if it's necessary or not such as trying to heat the top of the arrester and seeing if you are able to heat it quickly (no water) or not (water). This should be easy to do with a lighter and a thermocouple. Fun science project !
Nothing has an infinite service life. Even a soldered joint that is holding pressure with no leak at start of service, if not done right, can fail in weeks / months / very few years. I am sure it is easier to get a life expectancy number on these commercially produced devices, than to try to figure out a replacement time for a field constructed dead leg.
They don't. Severe water hammer with too short of a pipe is what will draw air out of the stand pipe in the form of very small bubbles. Although, one can inject air into the lines on purpose and refill the stand pipe as it will capture some of the air (bubbles) passing. It's a solution looking for a problem.
@@thaitichi It depends on the intended purpose of the expansion tank, if used to arrest hammer, install it closer to the offending fixture, if installed for the expansion of water in the system as long as it is downstream of the heater you are fine as long as there aren't any check valves in the system.
I think most people install these near the water heater because the "strongest" thermal expansion is there, correct me if I am wrong guys, I am a learner too :)
@@thaitichiwater hammer arrestors are effective only if you install them at the fast closing valves. Ex washing machine, some faucets, showers, toilets
@@fortunatedad7695 I was thinking that since water is not compressible, the sudden change in pressure would happen throughout the entire system. Is it wrong to think this way?
Our brewery has two of these. We had them installed because when we shut off the supply water, we had a big thud vibrating through all the water piping
Wow...thanks for a really great explanation! I'm a DIYer who does a little bit of plumbing here and there, and this gives me insight into some upcoming work. Cheers
I took a piss in a 1.5M home I was fixing a few windows in, house was empty up for sale, and the hammering of the pipes went on for about 20 minutes. new owners will be so happy.
Correct in my view.. in hard water it will go wrong in weeks.. I suggested why not just have a copper T that then goes vertically from 15mm to 22mm (via a service valve so you can take it off) , to act as a dead leg and put a couple of rubber balls in there. ... job done....he didnt thinks so....prob because its doesnt sell product lol
@@Got2Learn For me they seem to last about 2-3 years for the small ones that attach to a washing machine. No doubt the local water composition plays a part. I'm also looking to see if there is a more permanent solution; that's why I'm watching water hammer videos :)
@@BixbyConsequence Even the Earth isn't permanent when you get down to it. The closest thing to a permanent water arrestor is probably an open pipe that's really tall. The problem is that if you've got a supply pressure of 50 psi you'd need 116' of height to prevent the water from constantly spilling out, and without a ridiculously tall pipe you'd waste water when there's a pressure spike due to water hammer. A simple air chamber that can be recharged is relatively permanent, but requires periodic maintenance in the form of pressurization (or draining of water).
@@stevepseudonym445 that should make the membrane pressure tank the better option. Would one tank handle a whole house plumbing system? If so, where would it best be placed?
*I have no idea why this was recommended, but fuck me if I didn't love it, I actually learnt something new and finally realized why you'd get that banging noise when the washing machine would stop and start the water fill. Cheers dude, great clip!*
Great animations. 1 Unanswered question. What is the optimum location and alignment of the arrester? I think near the hammer causing device and in a straight line with the bulk of the flowing fluid (without having to turn 90degrees etc.) Anything else means the initial hammer shock wave has to bounce back from the hammer causing device to reach the arrestor. Just a thought. Schaun
Interesting, it is equivalent to electrical bypass capacitors. Both are essentially acting as lowpass filters to prevent strong transients in the system!
I had water hammer issues in my previous home built in 2007. I installed an expansion tank on the incoming service line and this eliminated the water hammer issues. My new home that we just purchased built in 2016 has hammer arrestors on the washing machine valves.
@@jeffbrown7246 yes, near bathrooms, kitchens etc... the more the better, the pressure in the home also plays a big role, how much PSI you got coming in?
@@Got2Learn ok. That helps, thank you. So the more the merrier. I didn’t know if there was a critical limit that would adversely affect water flow. I’ll have to check the psi. Haven’t measured it in a long time. Do these guys wear out? Do they need to be replaced on any specific interval? Thanks for the input!
@@jeffbrown7246 they are cycle tested for 500,000 times, so it at depends how much the system is used, but if you keep them accessible, they'll be easy to swap out when they do stop working, cheers!
@humandxpThe arrestor can be installed in any configuration. The polypropylene/o-ring device is installed much closer to the neck of the arrestor than the animation shows. There is around 5ml (1 teaspoonful) or less of water left in the arrestor's neck. During any time that the water is running and during the actual operation of the device, there is enough turbulence and back pressure created to dislodge any stagnant water in the neck area.
Stagnant water in the chamber isn't an issue because the same forces that make the internal plunger work are also present in the old style with no moving parts. Basically each surge bounces the water against the air pocket so there is always an exchange of fresh water going on. BTW, water hammer doesn't make the water change direction. The moving water suddenly stopping makes the pipe move (wherever there's enough slack to allow) within the wall / joist. The small bang / bump of pipe rattling around is what you hear.
I've been installing these Hydra-Resters recently, where are these recommended to be put? For commercial water closet, lavatories, and urinals they have us put one inbetween the last two fixtures, but for a janitor sink I put one for the hot and one for the cold just like the old air chambers. It seems these are better used one for each fixture.
Ideally they should be placed close to any solenoid or sudden turn off device. Otherwise there is still a column of water that has nowhere to go. Admittedly even the flexible connection between a lever tap and the wall can absorb enough energy to be quite effective. Any rubber connection in the system can expand under excess pressure absorbing the energy. Another solution would have been to require all solenoids to have a damper so they don't close too quickly. Very feasible.
The office of our a 100+ unit complex caught fire during a snowstorm. They had a hard time reaching us and when wrapping up they shut off the hydrant quickly and it blew out our 4" water main... Good times fixing that in a snowstorm.
Not quite. A stand pipe usually refers to a tall, verticle pipe used to provide more uniform pressure to a system, or any pipe that supplies water to a fire-fighting system. It can also be just the verticle supply pipe in a multi-story building. This article refers to a water-hammer arrester, but not a stand pipe.
I wonder how the pipe material affects the severity of the problem. I have never seen the arresters in any apartment in eastern EU and I have seen quite a lot of plumbing - I believe that protection from water hammer is not required in our codes. But we use mostly polipropylene pipes nowadays, not the copper ones, and I believe copper might be more susceptible since it is way thinner. Despite this lack of arresters, I do not recall hearing much noise from the plumbing as well. I wonder if the common use of flexible hoses helps to mitigate the issue a little - after all the hose can expand a little, absorbing the pressure surge partially (at the cost of increased wear of the hose).
We don't use them in Aus and water pressure is 500kpa (72psi). Only had an issue with water hammer in one house, it was on a hill and we would get hammer from the house down hill.
Another place where that phenomena causes damage, is on the boat props. In some cases you can get cavitation, which is the spontaneous formation and collapse of gaseous cavities in a liquid. When they collapse, they can form pitting on the surface of the props, due to this exact water-hammer effect. Weird but true.
Very thorough explanation. Great Video! One question though: should we put hammer arrestors on all water outlets. The minimum has always been at the washing machine.
Instead of several of these high failure rate devices, use a single expansion tank mounted on the cold water line going into the water heater. It's better technology, more reliable, and easily replaced if it fails.
I'm not even interested in plumbing but here I am... And now interested
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I am mostly here because water hammers are awesome and terrible things, depending on how and why they happen.
I just love human ingenuity. Think of how useful these analog devices are. In the age of computerized everything, it’s easy to forget just how much of that “old” technology we still use all the time.
@@rodneythundercock 💯
Practical Engineering has an entire video on water (and steam!) hammer. Good stuff.
I installed these in a hospital that vibrated like it would shake itself apart … and they fixed it perfectly !
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As someone who has no plumbing experience and is thinking of changing careers late in my life, I greatly appreciate the visual (pipe cut in half) and explanation of how it works. Thank you.
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When I was a kid, we were at the end of a 5 mile long, 24 inch gravity fed irrigation pipe for the farm. We would have to change the pipe twice per day, which would involve opening and closing that valve. My dad strictly warned us to close the valve slowly and to watch the pressure gauge carefully, especially when we closed it. It normally ran at 130 psi, (household is about 40 psi) but if you closed it too quickly, you could see spikes at 200 psi or more.
Shortly after I went off to college, my dad sold the place. The next year, he showed me an article in the paper where that pipe burst and caused some $200 k in damages. We knew exactly what happened.
Ouchhhh
@@jimjohnson394 I wonder if he told the new owners about this? If he did, my experience is people don't remember me info at new places unless written down, and even then they tend not to take it seriously until they wish they had.
We had this problem at my work, whenever they used a pressure washer and released the trigger, the hose connector at the water outlet would spray a bit and a loud bang be heard within the wall.
As soon as I noticed it, I told the technicians about it. Nothing was done.
Two pressure washers started leaking within one week.
They bought another version. The water outlet started leaking. They changed it and put a stronger seal.
Some months later, water was coming out of the walls on the other side.
As they were tearing the wall down I just had to say "If only someone had told you about this before".
were these technicians awake, or were they cardboard cutouts ? if they did nothing, then they should be called " ornaments " as ornaments are there on show, but have no functionality.
I once used a pressure washer, and my neighbour knock at my front door, to say it was shaking their water pipes about, we had a shared mains water supply, so I fill a clean dust bin up with water, open to atmospheric air pressure, put the water supply hose into the dust bin of water one end, and connected the supply hose to the jet washer after getting the air out of it, and it worked without any problems, it was isolated from the mains water supply, the jet washer sucked in the water by it self.end of problem. well a quich solution.
You can save your plumbing pipes and pressure washers by always, or nearly always, having the pressure washer's sprayer trigger in the ON position. If you want to stop using the pressure washer, shut it down by turning off the motor while the water is still spraying out. Result: no more water hammer nor pressure washer wear and tear.
When you begin using a pressure washer, first always have the pressure washer trigger in the on position. Once you have it in the on position, then, and only then, turn on the motor.
My home clothes washer. The pipe went by and under the wooden flooring of the kitchen. It became nicked with the hammering over time and so the entire floor boards became warped with being damp underneath and dry on top. Took a long time to dry and the outside wall needed to be opened to get access to the pipe.... An absolute pain of a job and all could have been saved with an arrester.... Don't anyone risk it without one on all valves other than perhaps just hand taps. Even then you ask everyone to turn them off slowly.
Dude your animation has stepped up to the next level, good stuff
Khaled thank you so much, I really appreciate your comment, the animations are what take time in these videos and I know they help with understanding what I am talking about, very happy you noticed that, have a great day buddy!
Got2Learn uMinh ubunki bun knubn by nn nun k no bnbukk inbbun BB bank n bki
@@bridgetteallen3708 Eh??
Nice animation. In Australia houses should be 500kpa anything above damages internals of plumbing parts. If there is water hammer we put pressure reducing valves this gets rid of most water hammer and damages of water pressure above 500kpa
Now I know why the wall goes BONK every time I shut off the hot water too quickly. My landlord is too cheap to look at it.
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The entire building (24 floors) of the apartment I lived at got this problem. Every night when people start showering, I hear hammering noises until 12:00am. Can't really sleep until then without putting on my bose qc20.
@@howardlam6181 yup. Every time we run a washing machine the pipes just bang like being hammered.
Send them this vid. If they value their building and don't want it water damaged by a burst pipe, this is cheap insurance. Happy tenants also tend to renew, so it pays for itself that way as well. It is very likely they just don't know this is the problem and figure it's no big deal.
@@nateman10
10s of thousands of dollars.
Probably costs 5 to 10 dollars for the PVC version of this.
Most plumbing is PVC now.
One or two of these installed would probably suffice for a large house.
Installation would be relatively cheap.
If I was a landlord I would play dirty.
There are easy ways to evict someone and there are hard ways.
Sometimes you gatta stop playing fair.
I think you just saved me from a hell lot of fixes and expenses, because my homes plumbing system is crap. Every time I shut a valve or tap, there is a painful to hear sound like demolishing buildings
I have a house that has some pretty bad banging pipes, what I found from experimentation and reading some plumbing forums is that the closer to the valve the better. I have had arrestors placed both near to the shutoff for a washing machine and also directly placed in the inlet for the washing machine. In the configuration where the arrester was close to the inlet for the washing machine hammer was eliminated completely.
Also, in the video above you show the size A 652-A arrestor which works much better than their 'washing machine' variant of size 'AA'. Based on my experience so far I wouldnt ever get a mini-rester as Sioux Chief calls them. The Size A unit is tested at a life cycle of 500,000 cycles and 20,000 shock cycles, if you look at the different arresters available on the market make sure to look at the O-ring material and the piston material.
Our local volunteer fire department sometimes uses a fire hydrant outside of their building. Sometimes they open it wide open and the water pressure drops a bit. The problem is that they sometimes shut it too quickly. It seems like the last 3 times they did this, it would send pressure surging down the line and we'd see some damage at either water meters or some joints under the ground. Each time the water company would fix it and the volunteer fire department acted like they knew nothing.
Yes, that's the "Shult-zee", perfected by Sgt.Shutz from Hogans Heros fame.
I know a retired water co. Worker that was flushing hydrants one day, and closed the valve a little faster than he should’ve, blew another hydrant 3 blocks down the street!
Yah. The fire department I work for trains us not to do that. Apparently one of our stations destroyed all the fittings for a farms irrigation system once😶
It can also cause the water main to hammer and recoil and hammer and recoil...
Very hard to stop.
@@nimarus3118 your volunteer fire department is either poorly trained, or you have some sociopathic trolls there with a nasty sense of humor.
Dunno if you remember, but a few weeks ago I asked about low flow in my shower. You said it was probably clogged or bad cartridges. You were right. I disassembled them and the cold water valves were clean but the hot water valves were a mess with mineral deposits. I have private well water and always knew my water was hard, and learned that hot water causes the minerals in hard water to deposit. So I installed a water softener on the cold water line going to my furnace and cleaned my hot water fixture valves. So now I'll be curious to see how well it keeps the hot circuits clear of deposits.
Thanks for the tip 👍
Awesome, glad it worked out and I hope the softener helps reduce the deposits, yeyyy!
Water softener does absolutely nothing for deposits!!
You need an iron filter and a water test to determine what size
Practical engineering did an awesome demo of a water hammer from quickly turning off water where pressure goes from 60psi to a sudden 200psi in a split second for just turning off water
I learned something today, I will implement this in my home ASAP even if the piping is made of highly forgiving hdpe.
And you might learn something today, too: copper metal and oxides are very good bactericides and fungicides. They also kill or inhibit some nematodes and larvae. No worries about stuff growing in the copper pipes.
Absolutely Right!
WELL, IM 78 YRS. OLD AND I LEARNED SOMETHING. MAKES A LOT OF SENCE TO ME. I HAVE SEEN THOSE DEAD LEGS IN WALLS BEFORE, I NEVER THOUGHT WHAT THEY WERE FOR.
@@Big_AlMC He's 78 years old bro.
Neither of you guys are talking about the absolute treasure trove that are his uploads 🤣
@@Big_AlMCNeither, he obviously knows that caps lock is cruise control for cool.
@@YouLookedLoser Oh wow, treasure trove is one way to put it...that was an adventure down a rabbit hole i dont want to ever take again.
Extremely helpful I dabble in plumbing as I’m in the HVAC field but am renovating a house from 79. There’s no arrestors throughout the house and with the new appliances and faucets I’m sure without them it will cause issues.
Now you can appreciate the technical challenges faced by pipelines with dozens of miles of flow being stopped
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How do they do it? Do they install big storage tanks to collect all the excess flow when they want to stop it ?
@@uski emergency shutdown valves and other isolation valves have long closure times so flow is stopped gradually. For unavoidable scenarios they have over pressure relief devices that will open to relieve pressure to a low pressure area like a storage tank.
With the trash they put into the water you might as well have sewage coming out your faucets. That's the reason plastic bottled water exists the idiots at the municipal water departments have made it unpotable.
@@not1au : it's up to you if you want to drink microplastics from the bottles themselves. I do agree that some municipal water is unsafe - but not all of it. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6141690/
Very cool. As a young man I had run across “dead end T joints” while doing remodel demos.. Now I know what they were, and why they were there. Subscribe!
I think you may of solved an issue at my families business that no one knew this could of been the cause. In the employee hallway that runs a good length of the building there are 2 major water pipes that run most of the length. For some reason in the past couple of years there’s been a noticeable shake in one of the pipes that would happen periodically. They thought the straps were loose or it needed more reinforcement. Now I know what the cause is thanks to this video!
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I’ve been successfully using Zurn Shoktrol Water Hammer Arrestors for 40 years; highly recommended. Very easy to install with basic plumbing skills.
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This channel is by far the best when it comes to plumping issues.
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Pretty good as an introduction to water hammer, but:
If water piping is sized to keep flow velocity below 4 feet per second most water hammer effects are eliminated or greatly reduced. The flow can even be restricted after the quick closing valve with a restricted orifice aerator or other device to reduce flow velocity.
Also, a great percentage of newer plumbing is with PEX flexible pipe. PEX is flexible enough to absorb much of the water hammer effects as the surrounding air does the same thing as the trapped air in an air chamber or engineered water hammer arrester.
Proper sizing and resilient materials can eliminate the need for air chambers or arresters in most cases.
I have 1/2" plex pipe installed in the house and every time washing machine or sink shuts I hear bangs in the walls.
@@ajeebbeliever8857 In your case I suspect that it is either not supported in the right places, or has no slack, or both. It should not do that when properly installed. Also from experience I think it's better to move up a size when using PEX compared to metal, which your plumber didn't.
@@Eggerhexe thank you for your reply. It makes sense.
I am a plumber since 1977, master license MP 4125 state of Arkansas, formerly Texas master license as well. makes a nice video but not entirely true. O-rings wear out. shock arresters should be installed primarily in commercial applications where they are accessible and never in walls. they are a mechanical device, they wear out, thats why they must be accessible. 99% of residential plumbing in america has never has shock arrestors and does not need them.
They will eventually wear out for sure, but they are cycle tested 500,000 times, so it give us an good idea for how long they last.
@@Got2Learn < less than 15 yrs if you flush, wash clothes, dishes, watering lawn using 100 times per day...that is easy to do.
Every new home or older home that has been remodeled or re-piped in Texas is required to have hammer arresters. You won’t get a final without them.
Had to scroll way too far down for this comment. While all the technical info in this video is basically true, the title and calling it mandatory is HORRIBLY misleading. Never once seen these in a a house and never once seen an issue because they weren't there 🤦♀️
@@chrish4439 They are mandatory where I live. There are a pair of them installed in my house behind the clothes washer.
They are required by a township ordinance. My township is somewhat less than 100 square kilometers. Travel 10 km in any direction, and you will be in a different jurisdiction, and the laws will probably be different.
Wow excellent, excellent educational video. No music. Clear and simple to understand. Quality graphics! 👍👍👍
Much appreciated! Thank you so much @GG me, please share if you can it helps tremendously!
and no story telling
you are a terrific educator, especially as you know what you are talking about, unlike alot of others, who give misinformation, which in turn causes unnecessary problems, like
" the blind leading the blind " I appreciate your goodness in sharing " hands on " experience, and plumbing principles and practice.
Thanks a million!
Dude I love your videos. I learned to solder copper pipes overnight because of you, my dad would never teach me, said it was some inherited skill he'd gotten from his father... lol. I did it your way and my joints look better than his did. God rest his soul I wish he was here to see it.
That is awesome, and so sorry for your loss :(
@@Got2Learn It's okay. He's out of his pain now. I miss him but I'm at peace with it.
:(
In work they have a sink and an instant water heater fitted. For whatever reason they fitted a pressure gauge on the cold pipe. Well if you turn the tap on and of quickly/violently you can see the water pressure reading on the gauge almost double.
That's exactly what a water hammer is, the pressure spikes up and could really damage your system, good example here.
That was informative, thanks! For the record, water *is* compressible (or else sound couldn't travel through water), but its compressibility is much much smaller than air.
Thank you so much! Yes water is compressible, just not enough to say it is, but interesting point there @MH, thanks!
Only gases dissolved in water are compressible; not the water itself. Water is so incompressible that if a piston engine ingests water, or even too much fuel, it can break the pistons and rods- in a high performance car engine.
@@jamesengland7461 Okay, but water (like all fluids) IS compressible, though as I said, much less so than gases (including air). It's not the gases dissolved in water, but simple, pure water is compressible.
you have seriously invested a ton of time in this video!!! WOW MAN! sooo happy for you and your results. great job again!
Thanks a ton, yes a ton of time isn't even the word hehehe, have a great day Eric!!!!!!!
I’m planning on buying a home within a year , so I’m watching videos like this. I’ll be back with an update. Hello & Good luck to all my 1st time home owners out there WE GOT THIS
Awesome!!!
I just installed on both houses per code, did not know what they were for. Now I know. Thank you
Interesting. Can't say why exactally, but this isn't used here in Brazil, and we don't have the problem with noise in the Pipes.
Maybe for lack of preasure.
Good point is water pressure. Here in Calgary it's like 90psi.
Funny how I used to think that water hammer was due to the inertia of water which weighs a kilo per liter travelling down a pipe very quickly and coming to a halt suddenly and having nothing to dampen the shock. But now I know that it's actually due to the water being deflected back up the pipe like a tennis ball. I guess you learn something new every day
Years ago I had a toilet that would bang so severely when the fill valve shut off, that the plastic fitting cracked after a few years, and the water leak damaged the walls and ceiling in the room below. After the third time it happened, I turned down the water flow to that toilet, and that worked. If these arresters were available then, I might have installed one. However, I don't see what prevents the gas from slowly leaking past the o-rings, making regular replacement necessary. Regardless, an arrester must cost far less than fixing all that water damage.
This comment provided more information on "why water hammer arresters are so important" than the whole video. I already know what they are and how they work, but was wondering what kind of things happen without one
I did not know. I'm glad I watched & learned.
I have had my water service turned off in the past due to lack of funds. When I pay up & the water company(Great Basin, the worse company I've ever delt with) turns the main back on , they give it a quick wide open & it bangs so hard I am surprised it hasn't ruptured a line somewhere.
Thanks for the good video.
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We bought a 1960s house and modern washing machine. Yup, *intense* water hammer. It only took a few months to cause cause a leak in these old pipes. Now we have flexible pex plumbing that can absorb a little of the shock, and in-line hammer arrestors on the washer lines.
Nice!
Water hammer can also be caused by loose pipes that are not properly secured/strapped down and from excessive water pressure from what I understand.I could be wrong but wouldn't an expansion tank work just as well as water hammer arrestors?Good video by the way.God bless you and yours.
Not really unless you put the exp tank at the location of every spigot. in order for this to work it needs to be at the end of the run, otherwise its like putting bumper springs on the rear bumper and then driving forward into a brick wall
@@integr8er66 you are right and wrong. take again your rear-spring bumber car smashed into a brick wall then add another car following behind. All the water behind will still take use of the of the air tank, which will still reduce not all but some of the increasing pressure.
@@TwinShards Yes I agree, the water before the Exp tank will be cushioned, any after won't. I totally agree with that, so I suppose it would help. To the Victor my good man!
I’ve installed this same brand Sioux Chief devices at my washing machine bibs. Problem is the have to be changed out occasionally. In my case over time the piston freezes up inside maybe due to hard water deposits. Also as someone else stated copper is antibacterial so shouldn’t be a problem with stagnant water.
Could be you have super harsh water, gotta get that checked out if you do, any component is exposed to premature failure if it's the case.
Lime scale build up does that. However, there can be several other factors such as sediment getting embedded in the neoprene seals on the piston, not cleaning flux out after sweating, water pressure not regulated and incorrect install, like crimping the arrestor body.
Assuming residential, install a whole home water filter or even a pair. The primary with a basic sediment filt0er and sec2ondary with an activated charcoal filter. This will eliminate sediment and greaty reduce limescale extending the life of seals , appliances, fixtures and devices such as arrestors. Of course, replace damaged components.
@Pee Tee A better solution is an empty vertical column of air, then drain your whole system when they stop working and they will work again, but when these fail you must replace them to fix the problem.
I sometimes will increase the size of the pipe feeding the branch/fixture to decrease the flow rate helping to reduce the hammer effect.
Yes, that also works!
I was about to say the same thing ! Haha
@OK Boomer It all depends on the flow rate and pipe size, you want to increase the size enough to reduce the flow rate but not so much that the water becomes stagnated and grows things.
I had a bathroom restoration and I learned about this the hard way. After everything was completed I heard a noise every time someone in the house shut off the water until I contacted a Plummer that fix it for me. You can imagine I have to break the new installed wall from the other room (I was lucky on that since I didn’t have to take down the travertine walls in the shower) to put the arrester.
Ouchhhh, learning can be expensive :(
I was doing a bathroom for daughter and the inspector told me to add them. Luckily at the rough-in inspection
Be prepared to install water hammer arrestors at AQUOR hose hydrants if the pipes are accessible nearby. I have 3 of these modern hose bibs and they shut the water off very quickly and i have experienced water hammer multiple times when removing the hose connector. After watching this vid, I plan on installing water hammer arrestors in my crawlspace close to each hose hydrant to remedy this. Thank you very much for the insight.
My parents bought a ranch style house built in the 70s. When I come to visit. There is bumping sound of a pipe between the master bedroom bathroom and guest bathroom all day long. And it's not us using water. It's from all the neighborhood. So I guess we need to open up the wall.
Yes, if you want to further investigate., it's most probably that there are no water hammer arresters and that the pipes aren't properly attached to the building, let us know!
Use an air chamber, it is more effective and a lot cheaper to install.
Once per year you will need to drain your water to refill the air pocket.
Hammer arresters are useless for large amounts of water hammer
@@Silonomono hahaha Thanks I needed a good laugh
RICHARD MARTIN
... This is a common problem on a dead end road, with a dead end water main, especially if you are near the end. Extrol makes an expansion tank that can be installed where your supply first enters the house. It's similar to what's used on a common boiler but rated for around 100 psi operating pressure. Inside this small tank looking device is a rubber bladder that holds air and it will outlast any of these things shown in the video above. Another thing to look at is if the water pressure is excessive from the main supply. Anything over 50 - 60 psi range is just asking for water hammer issues.... and it's common to see over 100 psi from a public water main. Installing a pressure regulator might be your first step if this is the case.
Pressure to home?
another tip to prevent some hammering on faucet and some toilets is to put a restrictor or inline 1/4 ball valve half closed between the line and angle valve.. when the tap is open it creates a pressure differential across the restrictor when the tap closes it takes a few milliseconds for the pressure to equalize.. even turning the angle a few turns in to restrict some of the flow
I can tell you first-hand at how damaging water hammer can be. Back years ago the Fire Service had Front Mount Pumps on the trucks.
Well FF would shutoff a inch and half (1¹/² ) valve without any warning to the pump operator, and kaaabang the shockwave would either blow a valve apart or if you got lucky another hose team would all of sudden be hit with about 150-170 psi. I've seen valves blown off as well as hoses blown apart.
Very good.Generally,water hammer occurs,when there is a high water pressure issue.Also water hammer arrestors,come for cold,hot water,or both. Although this device can be found on hardware stores,go where plumbers and contractors shop.
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Great info. I brought the video to our condo admin’s attention cause there’s massive knocking in our bathroom wall when the kitchen faucet is closed, even slowly. They’re not interested claiming water hammers are not destructive. 🤬
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Question: Do these need to be installed at any certain point in the plumbing system, or just somewhere in the house?
Closest to the banging fixture as you can 👌
Great video! Thank you so much for explaining this. The graphics were outstanding.
Thank you so much, I really appreciate it!!
Hard water destroys those water hammer then they turn in to dead legs any ways. As long as you strap the pipe correctly u shouldn't he any issue the city has water towers for that reason but great video
Makes sense, I used to have to replace them every year or so since they would quit working. My town switched to Lake Michigan water about 3 years ago and I have not had to replace any since.
Awesome
And most modern plumbing is flexible pvc or pex so it can absorb the shock
Umm, no. It isn't just the movement of the pipes that damage the joints, it's the localized increase in pressure too. Sometimes as much as 8x the nominal water pressure. Old fashioned stand pipes last as long as the rest of the piping in the house, just need to drain the house system occasionally to get the water out and refill the pipe's air chamber. No one does it anymore, that's why code is being changed. To accommodate stupid lazy people. All manufactured anti water hammer devices will fail no matter what you do.
@@jcwoods2311 I'm not sure what your saying no too but either way everything plays a factor and yes ppl r lazy its why we have jobs 🙂
I have an older home so it doesn't have water hammers. I always wondered why there was extra piping at the top. thanks so much.
You are welcome!
Thanks so much. We have an LG washer and really needed 2 of these. Prior to viewing your video, I wasn’t aware they existed. I’ve learned a lot from you.
Sweet! Try installing them as close as you can to the machine in question and it should make a difference, thanks!!!
Stand pipe anti-hammer devices work way longer than "a few weeks" as was stated, generally a year or more before , GASP, a little maintenance is required! Simply shut off water main valve and open both faucets to drain the system to get the water out of the stand pipe. Properly sized, installed, and maintained these will last as long as the rest of the copper piping. Hard water deposits destroy the manufactured air chamber types and need replacement no matter what you do. How long depends on the degree of hardness in the water. There is a very remote chance of bacteria breeding in this stagnant water and the manufactured units also have an amount of stagnant water, just less.
The manufactured water hammer arrestors are required because people have become lazy and stupid. Same reason many cars have sealed transmissions, people are lazy and stupid.
Your videos are great and informative, this one just leaves out quite a few facts to justify using a product that will fail because of its design and need an expensive replacement, sometimes in a few short years.
@some guy Used to work just fine. Hospitals have maintenance staff. My response was primarily directed at residential though.
I have never seen one installed in Texas where are this used
So that’s why when I turn on the water I hear a knock and the water slows to a trickle.
Inertia is the same everywhere, so these are not regional, they should be installed in every house at very least at the washer spigots.
Hammer is usually an urban problem where water pressure is higher. Rural (well) water systems don't often see this issue because of lower pressure (nom 30 PSI) and the effect is also mitigated by the pressure tank.
Pressure stress of the plumbing could be reduced by installing a whole-house pressure regulator.
I see this in well systems all the time, usually in irrigation with long pipe runs of undersized pipework. The shock wave can be easily 10 times the system pressure and it blows the pump in half.
I lived in the country my entire life, the most common well pressure is in the 50-60 psi range. I've never even seen a pressure switch that topped out at 30 psi.
@@TKCL There are two typical pressure switches: 30/50 and 40/60. The 30/50 is the most common setup and 30 psi is the cut-on pressure and 50 psi the cut-off pressure. Nearly all pressure tanks come precharged to 28 psi for this reason. So a typical well system will have an idle pressure between 30 and 50 psi. So, to your point, a well system doesn't "top out" at 30 psi but is still referred to as a "30 psi nominal system". On the other hand, municipal water systems typically deliver anywhere from 45 to 80 psi with 60 psi being the target norm.
As a water mitigation technician in Alaska where pipe bursts and leaks are stupid common... this is cool. I don’t think I’ve come across a home with this yet. Most are older. Must be why we get so many jobs.
I have air dead-leg type anti-water hammer pipe chambers in the cold water pipework of my old home, they work very well to suppress pipe rattling noise for about 1 year each time after I drain the water out of the cold water pipework system to refill the air in them.
I tired of doing this annual air refill draining work, so I arranged for a plumber to install several of these simple sealed piston type water hammer suppressors next to each automatic on/off valve after plumber gushed with enthusiasm about them and I saw many endorsing RUclips videos like this and vendor websites saying how effective they were.
It seems that the piston seems to be pushed up and suspended a little up inside its sealed cylinder by static line pressure when the pipework system is at rest, and then a pressure spike from a nearby closing valve pushes it up even further, absorbing that surge to protect cold water pipework, prevent rattling noise etc as designed. Fine.
But I find a problem that whenever a remote cold water valve opens somewhere in my home, those suspended pistons variously rush down in response to the momentary dip in line pressure, causing an irritating 'thump' noise when each piston hits the narrow neck of its cylinder.
This problem would be eliminated if a stainless steel spring where to be installed by the manufacturer between the piston and that narrow neck of its cylinder.
Meanwhile I am looking around for an alternative anti-water hammer protection device which looks like two metal cups joined together with a continuous rubber diaphragm separating them, one cup blind/filled with air, and the other cup connected to the pipework. That way the flexing rubber diaphragm will noiselessly absorb pressure surges and pressure dips.
Anybody know/recommend such an diaphragm anti-water hammer device?
Thank you.
“Some objects and liquids are compressible” - all liquids are incompressible, at least hydraulically speaking. Scientifically speaking a liquid’s compressibility is the same as the inverse of it’s bulk modulus, so water is one of the most “compressible” of liquids while as say liquid mercury is one of the least. For example, putting water under pressure at 500 bar actually does reduce the volume of the water by about 2%.
Aren’t some solid materials more compressed than the liquid for the same element? Meaning some liquid materials should be compressible into their solid counterparts?
@@LKRaider yes, it depends on the phase diagram for the liquid but for example you can definitely compress water into ice at temperatures higher than freezing. Can google ice 6 or ice 7. Can get ice at high pressure (1 gigapascal) at up to like 300 kelvin or 80 something F.
Wouldn’t a liquid that was gas saturated be compressible? Seems pedantic to ask, but gas saturation levels could add a degree of compressibility to any permeable liquid in a closed system like say a brewery or soft drink bottling application.
@@dennischavez7503 I would think it would be the opposite, if you saturate a liquid with solutes then you’re filling the empty intermolecular spaces with solids, gases or other liquids. if you compress a liquid youre pushing the molecules next to each other and filling the intermolecular spaces that way. but I guess I’m not 100% sure. intuitively I dont think youre right, though. it seems like except for volume an already compressed liquid and a saturated liquid would be very similar.
I did one for my sprinkler. The hammer was so bad, the pipes would jump 1/8 inch and hit another pipe. Anyways, I didn't expect it, but it actually helped the whole house.
Awesome ;)
ours got started by accident and fixed by accident. we installed a new kitchen faucet to a galvanized pip and problem started . we changed the fixture hot and cold with pex for 20feet and problem got solved .
Thanks RUclips algorithm I'd of never seen this without you. Also very informative and well presented!
Finally....a perfect explanation! But....where and how many if more that one is needed would you place the arrestor...right after the main water supply shutoff, in each bathroom's toilet?
Closest to the banging fixture as you can and as many as needed 👌
@@Got2Learn This is very helpful! Thank you!
It’s hard to believe that the aresters o-rings will last longer than air chambers.
i think the problem on the air chamber is the soldered cap,that will leak the air with time, but the arrester is a continuous cup.
anyway,maybe shutting off the water and draining the water should "reset" all the air chambers on the system.
@@xiro6 If that would be the case, then you would know, because being on a pressurized line, it would be leaking water.
It is as the video explains, over time the flow of water up and down the pipe absorbs the air inside it. Remember when you sometimes open a tap to pour yourself a glass of water, without letting it run a bit and you look at the glass to see that the water looks cloudy due to having a lot of fine bubbles in it. That is an example of water that has absorbed air that was it the line, as it was passing through.
As for the synthetic o-rings, while they do wear away over time, in this application, it will literally be a lifetime, if not more. The reason is that they tampon moves very little in actual usage, as well, the wet surface of the tube acts as a lubricant that mitigates the friction between the two surfaces. Lastly, most of the time the change and oscillation in line pressure is not significant enough to cause it to move, so unlike a shock absorber on a car, which is essentially built and operates in the same manner, as the hammer arrester, they are dormant for most of their time in use. Nor, by being inside a dark sealed tube are the materials affected by UV light or ozone, which can also cause the materials of the tampon to deteriorate over time.
This is why it might be a good idea to replace the water hammer arresters after a few years.
And when you do so, open them to check if it was needed or not. If it was, increase the replacement frequency. If it was not, decrease it.
There could be more scientific ways to see if it's necessary or not such as trying to heat the top of the arrester and seeing if you are able to heat it quickly (no water) or not (water). This should be easy to do with a lighter and a thermocouple. Fun science project !
Nothing has an infinite service life. Even a soldered joint that is holding pressure with no leak at start of service, if not done right, can fail in weeks / months / very few years. I am sure it is easier to get a life expectancy number on these commercially produced devices, than to try to figure out a replacement time for a field constructed dead leg.
They don't. Severe water hammer with too short of a pipe is what will draw air out of the stand pipe in the form of very small bubbles. Although, one can inject air into the lines on purpose and refill the stand pipe as it will capture some of the air (bubbles) passing.
It's a solution looking for a problem.
This is good information, I’m a certified plumber, and confirm all this info is good
Great to hear! Thanks for confirming John, that really is nice of you :)
Just a suggestion, make sure you have an "expansion" tank at the water heater.
Does it need to be installed right near the water heater? Would it operate just the same if it was 20ft away?
@@thaitichi It depends on the intended purpose of the expansion tank, if used to arrest hammer, install it closer to the offending fixture, if installed for the expansion of water in the system as long as it is downstream of the heater you are fine as long as there aren't any check valves in the system.
I think most people install these near the water heater because the "strongest" thermal expansion is there, correct me if I am wrong guys, I am a learner too :)
@@thaitichiwater hammer arrestors are effective only if you install them at the fast closing valves. Ex washing machine, some faucets, showers, toilets
@@fortunatedad7695 I was thinking that since water is not compressible, the sudden change in pressure would happen throughout the entire system. Is it wrong to think this way?
Our brewery has two of these. We had them installed because when we shut off the supply water, we had a big thud vibrating through all the water piping
Did it stop the hammering?
Wow...thanks for a really great explanation! I'm a DIYer who does a little bit of plumbing here and there, and this gives me insight into some upcoming work. Cheers
You're very welcome!
I took a piss in a 1.5M home I was fixing a few windows in, house was empty up for sale, and the hammering of the pipes went on for about 20 minutes. new owners will be so happy.
I am 1.93M, that house sounds like hell to me.
i told the inspector yesterday thats what the washing machine rubber connect hoses are for !!!! he said ill get back to ya.
0:25 this o-rings through the time will be damaged and will need to replace better to think a maintenance free device!
They cycle test these up to 500,000 times when being tested in the factory, I wouldn't be scared of them being damaged :)
Correct in my view.. in hard water it will go wrong in weeks.. I suggested why not just have a copper T that then goes vertically from 15mm to 22mm (via a service valve so you can take it off) , to act as a dead leg and put a couple of rubber balls in there. ... job done....he didnt thinks so....prob because its doesnt sell product lol
@@Got2Learn For me they seem to last about 2-3 years for the small ones that attach to a washing machine. No doubt the local water composition plays a part. I'm also looking to see if there is a more permanent solution; that's why I'm watching water hammer videos :)
@@BixbyConsequence Even the Earth isn't permanent when you get down to it. The closest thing to a permanent water arrestor is probably an open pipe that's really tall. The problem is that if you've got a supply pressure of 50 psi you'd need 116' of height to prevent the water from constantly spilling out, and without a ridiculously tall pipe you'd waste water when there's a pressure spike due to water hammer. A simple air chamber that can be recharged is relatively permanent, but requires periodic maintenance in the form of pressurization (or draining of water).
@@stevepseudonym445 that should make the membrane pressure tank the better option. Would one tank handle a whole house plumbing system? If so, where would it best be placed?
*I have no idea why this was recommended, but fuck me if I didn't love it, I actually learnt something new and finally realized why you'd get that banging noise when the washing machine would stop and start the water fill. Cheers dude, great clip!*
Thank you so much for your kind comment, really appreciate it :)
Well made video.
I knew about water hammers but wanted a refresher on the inside of an arrestor, so this was just the thing. Thanks
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great animations. 1 Unanswered question. What is the optimum location and alignment of the arrester? I think near the hammer causing device and in a straight line with the bulk of the flowing fluid (without having to turn 90degrees etc.) Anything else means the initial hammer shock wave has to bounce back from the hammer causing device to reach the arrestor. Just a thought.
Schaun
Closest to the banging fixture as you can 👌
Interesting, it is equivalent to electrical bypass capacitors. Both are essentially acting as lowpass filters to prevent strong transients in the system!
Indeed the technical term for water hammer is "hydraulic transient".
And dead legs can cause your combi to fire on dhw briefly everytime you turn a cold tap off
I had water hammer issues in my previous home built in 2007. I installed an expansion tank on the incoming service line and this eliminated the water hammer issues. My new home that we just purchased built in 2016 has hammer arrestors on the washing machine valves.
I didn't even know this thing existed. This explains why I have this noise sometimes when I use my fridge water dispenser. Thanks for the info
Glad to help :)
I’ve been plumbing for 49 years and never used one, and never had a problem, I was a maintenance man over 365 units.
If you have low pressure, you won't need any.
@@Got2Learn but why the hell don't you install pressure regulator right next to water meter? You install it once and it works for 10+ years.
Because I like pressure lol?
@@Got2Learn I have 80psi in the house and it doesn't have one hasn't had one in 30 years so not necessary.
I’m going to renovate the house soon. How many should be installed and where on the line should they be?
It really depends on the way the home plumbing is setup.
@@Got2Learn ok. How about a general rule of thumb?
Near each snap value? At the end of a long run?
@@jeffbrown7246 yes, near bathrooms, kitchens etc... the more the better, the pressure in the home also plays a big role, how much PSI you got coming in?
@@Got2Learn ok. That helps, thank you. So the more the merrier. I didn’t know if there was a critical limit that would adversely affect water flow.
I’ll have to check the psi. Haven’t measured it in a long time.
Do these guys wear out? Do they need to be replaced on any specific interval?
Thanks for the input!
@@jeffbrown7246 they are cycle tested for 500,000 times, so it at depends how much the system is used, but if you keep them accessible, they'll be easy to swap out when they do stop working, cheers!
Does the water hammer arrestor need to be installed vertically or can it be installed horizontally?
Any direction.
@humandxpThe arrestor can be installed in any configuration. The polypropylene/o-ring device is installed much closer to the neck of the arrestor than the animation shows. There is around 5ml (1 teaspoonful) or less of water left in the arrestor's neck. During any time that the water is running and during the actual operation of the device, there is enough turbulence and back pressure created to dislodge any stagnant water in the neck area.
Asking this question, better get someone who knows what he is doing....
@@jackripperchen4492, yeah. Don't ask questions to learn or anything......
Thanks!
So, that’s why my relatively new water house started to squirt water right before my water heater.
Man! I really need to install this WHA.
Stagnant water in the chamber isn't an issue because the same forces that make the internal plunger work are also present in the old style with no moving parts. Basically each surge bounces the water against the air pocket so there is always an exchange of fresh water going on. BTW, water hammer doesn't make the water change direction. The moving water suddenly stopping makes the pipe move (wherever there's enough slack to allow) within the wall / joist. The small bang / bump of pipe rattling around is what you hear.
this might be the most educational 4 minutes I've ever spent on RUclips.
Wow, thank you soooo much Cam!! Feel free to share :)
Wowww thx!!!
I've been installing these Hydra-Resters recently, where are these recommended to be put? For commercial water closet, lavatories, and urinals they have us put one inbetween the last two fixtures, but for a janitor sink I put one for the hot and one for the cold just like the old air chambers. It seems these are better used one for each fixture.
Well, the more the better but yeah, normally they are installed between the last 2 fixtures.
Ideally they should be placed close to any solenoid or sudden turn off device. Otherwise there is still a column of water that has nowhere to go. Admittedly even the flexible connection between a lever tap and the wall can absorb enough energy to be quite effective. Any rubber connection in the system can expand under excess pressure absorbing the energy. Another solution would have been to require all solenoids to have a damper so they don't close too quickly. Very feasible.
@@smitajky Can you put them directly on the washing machine? I've seen a few YT videos doing this, but the plastic valves aren't a solenoid
Never knew that. 3 minuets, not wasted in RUclips.
Awesome!!!
The office of our a 100+ unit complex caught fire during a snowstorm. They had a hard time reaching us and when wrapping up they shut off the hydrant quickly and it blew out our 4" water main... Good times fixing that in a snowstorm.
well, now that makes sense, instead of basic reasons others give, "just because code said so" with no explanation as to why it changed.
😉😉😉
I don't know why I'm here but I like learning that.
Thank you I didn’t understand them before this and had no idea that they could cause damage!
👌👌👌
I hate asking multiple questions but you explain them so much better and simple 💯
Thanks @Kingeli A. !
Yep. I learned the old method and until I watched this video, I had no idea that I needed to replace my dead legs with real air hammers. Thanks
🤘🙏
Ahh, so _that's_ what a stand pipe was. I remember hearing them referenced in... something when I was a kid.
👌
Not quite. A stand pipe usually refers to a tall, verticle pipe used to provide more uniform pressure to a system, or any pipe that supplies water to a fire-fighting system. It can also be just the verticle supply pipe in a multi-story building. This article refers to a water-hammer arrester, but not a stand pipe.
Well damn, you do learn something new each day!
👌👌👌
Say that 5 times as fast as you can: polypropylene piston.
Just did heheeee
People ask me, how you know many things about plumbing?
My answer: from got2learn my master teacher 👍👍👍
Thanks a million, you are the best!! 💪💪💪
@@Got2Learn it's a huge help we got from your online plumbing school. I personally appreciate it so much, thanks. 👍
@@adl6067 you are most welcome friend, more videos to come!!!
@@Got2Learn thank you.
I wonder how the pipe material affects the severity of the problem. I have never seen the arresters in any apartment in eastern EU and I have seen quite a lot of plumbing - I believe that protection from water hammer is not required in our codes. But we use mostly polipropylene pipes nowadays, not the copper ones, and I believe copper might be more susceptible since it is way thinner.
Despite this lack of arresters, I do not recall hearing much noise from the plumbing as well. I wonder if the common use of flexible hoses helps to mitigate the issue a little - after all the hose can expand a little, absorbing the pressure surge partially (at the cost of increased wear of the hose).
It could be that you have a lack of pressure in the system (~50psi).
We don't use them in Aus and water pressure is 500kpa (72psi).
Only had an issue with water hammer in one house, it was on a hill and we would get hammer from the house down hill.
Well I’ll be dipped, you learn something new everyday.
🤗🤗🤗
It's good when a feller can learn on some stuff.
I’m not even a plumber and I enjoyed that. Whodda thunk it?
Coooool!!!
This video wasn’t made for plumbers.
@@bokesnmokes it’s about plumbing.
@@darrenstettner5381 plumbers already know this stuff. This is an informational video for the curious.
Another place where that phenomena causes damage, is on the boat props. In some cases you can get cavitation, which is the spontaneous formation and collapse of gaseous cavities in a liquid. When they collapse, they can form pitting on the surface of the props, due to this exact water-hammer effect. Weird but true.
Ive heard of that before this example. Fascinating!
Its actually because of a vaccum created!
Very thorough explanation. Great Video! One question though: should we put hammer arrestors on all water outlets. The minimum has always been at the washing machine.
The more, the better 🙂
Instead of several of these high failure rate devices, use a single expansion tank mounted on the cold water line going into the water heater. It's better technology, more reliable, and easily replaced if it fails.
Expansion tanks are for expansions in the system, not hammering, two different things.
@@Got2Learn don’t they work the same way except one is bigger.
Negative!