The Netherlands is sending 5 of our reserve Pzr 2000. We have currently 24 in active service, 2 batteries of 9 howitsers and 1 (delta battery) of 6. In the future it probably will also have 9 which brings active pzr2000 to 27. Coming years ours with German ones are going to be upgraded due to shortage of supply of certain parts. Keep up the great work :-)
I really love how this channel, and Military Aviation History always provide a date when the video was made. Such an important detail. I saw a video yesterday that was about a Russian capital ship that was attacked. It turned out to be the Moscva...
I really think that washington want germany get absolutely involved in war with russia. We see this in vietnam where washington trow u.s. army in a no needed war.
AFAIK a single Panzerhaubitze can fire 5 shots in a sequence with decreasing elevation level of the barrel and different propellant charges to make all 5 shells hit the same target at the same moment. But since the last shot will be fired as direct fire this is limited to a range of about 16 km. On the other hand the salvo of a complete battery of 6 Panzerhaubitzen can be synchronized to hit a target area at the same moment thus creating a vastly bigger impact than shells hitting one after another. This can be done at any range but has to be controled by a seperate controle.
So what about the crazy logistics train you would need to keep those complicated monster firing at that rate? Russia has Control of the Air and there is dry few places you can hide a rapid firing SPG from IR. Hiding its supplies, ammo fuel spares etc would be even harder. Even worse? YOU HAVE TO TRAIN THE CREW FROM SCRATCH which will probably only take a few years, unless you send your own which Germany cannot do. Reality sucks.
Mostly correct information, which is rare on RUclips. But you repeated the political myth that a reluctant chancellor was solely responsible, when in fact a government security council controlled by a parliamentary defense council decides about weapons export allowances.
Molotov - Ribbentrop 2.0. Russian army steals Ukraine natural resourses, sells this to Germany, who in return produce goods to Russia. Basically 1930s secret deal in our time.
A very well made video. From other sources, I have heard one of the key reasons Ukraine wants NATO 155's; whether towed or self-propelled, is because there are only so many 152 mm rounds for their Soviet or Russian made weapons; both in Ukraine and in NATO countries equipped with those same howitzers. The longer this conflict drags on, the more important this fact will become.
You are correct in that case of the 15.2 cm Howitzers these are also made in Former Czechoslovakia and Poland. Furthermore they can also manufacture 12.5cm shells
unlike almost every other Channel i get accurate unbiased and sensible information from this channel keep it up I'm really enjoying it and feel informed
In Italy we are talking about sending the m109 (300 in storage, 221 of witch have been modernized in the 90s) and the phz2000 but, as you pointed out, the latter is difficult because of low numbers.
Italy has just some "spares": 63 pieces total produced under license by OTO Melara - three batallions, 18 guns each in operation, and what's was not yet cannibalised as spares of the 14 in between reserves, training (both basic gunnery and maintenance) and one kept as "sample". M109 were mostly retired in the late 90s, so they are out in the rain for more than 20 years. The last batch was retired when PzH2000 came, but many of those were sold to other nations: so few "fresh" ones left. Governament approved a package of military aid, the list was secret, so no public disclosure of what and when will be provided.
With the Panzerhaubitze 2000's ability to pick a spot shoot some round and move again, it's perfect for "shoot 'n scoot" usage. As long as it gets accurate targeting information and the system stays functional, it can keep on the move before the russians can scramble air assets to even look for it.
That is why Ukraine requested self-propelled artillery. The tactics are based on high mobility of all assets. Every unit from an anti-tank killteam to a whole brigade are constantly on the move.
@@SergMuller they are using quad-ATVs for hit and run attacks. They usually arrive at the Russian's destination before the Russians, ambush them and motor off across the countryside. These people are hardcore. I hate war but I admire balls.
The Ruskys are mostly flying over their own territory, with all the anti air manpads flying over Ukraine is a risky business. The main danger is being targeted by enemy artillery. But pair this system with firefinder that the US are giving them it might be a game changer. Firefinder can detect incoming shells and calculate where they are being shot from. Relay the coordinates to the howitser and hey presto Bob is your uncle.
Nice of the Dutch Armed forces to be sending a couple of PzH2000's. When I was in training to become a Arty M109 Cmdr in the Dutch Armed Forces, (KL) in early 2000's, me and my fellow NCO trainees went to Munster and the Panzer museum and Artillerie Lage. (we also had our Arty shooting exercises in Munster Sud) We were one of the first groups from the KL that was sitting on top of a PzH2000. They came into service in the Dutch Armed forces a couple of years later. A great piece of equipment (although MASSIVE!!) with many advantages compared to the M109 or towed Arty Pieces. Biggest advantage is the: get fire mission; get in unprepared fire position and fire a salvo of shells within mere minutes. Then leave again before the shells hit on target. Very hard for counter Bat fire to be effective if you are gone before shells hit. i'm not going into too much detail as to what capabilities it has, because I believe that is classified. When I left the armed forces we were cutting costs of the military. I'm amazed that they have so many in storage, compared to in active service. Should be the other way around --> more active than in storage. But eh, now they can send some to Ukraine.
As an Infantry Branch officer in the reserves who served four years in a 105 towed battalion these are impressed. But when I was on active duty in the 173rd Airborne Brigade at LZ English in 1970, there was some old NVA mortar gunner who could do this by instinct. I am not sure when he and his team would slip into their position, but he had to have laid his tube for deflection before sundown. He could have four rounds in the air and probably the piece broken down and the section moving out before the first round landed. They had some experimental model of the anti-mortar radar that got adopted later in the 1970s and that could see the rounds in the air and compute the firing point and they could fire back but it was always way too late. the old NVA mortar gunners were some of the best line-of-sight mortarmen in the world. Range estimation had to be by eye or by going out in peasant clothing during the day and pacing thing off. They would hit, come back three weeks later, go away for a few months, come back two night sin a row. English and North English and Uplift were all sort of roughly in a row and they all got hit. English was big enough that four rounds would always land within the perimeter. Uplift was smaller and one of three or four would be out. And they were never in a straight line, just a couple turns left or right deflection between rounds, but all four out in 20 seconds or less. In the cold evening air, you could hear the "boops" out in the distance. One time an alert duty NCO at the brigade TOC heard them and hit the switch for the alert siren about 10 seconds before the first round hit.
@@magnagermania9311 Also we need to start to manufacture sophisticated weapons again. With Russia in massive decline there needs to be some counterforce against the USA.
I'm always happy to watch content here and see that the sub base has grown - it's simply one of a group of channels that I think deserve the recognition and support. Very few content creators go to the trouble of laying out information so that even I can digest it (🤔probably the pictures) but it's also the depth and context that turn this channel into a dependable place to be informed and entertained. Military History : Synchronised. Many thanks 🍻 and to continued growth 👍
It's great to see Military History Visualized, Chris with Military Aviation History, Chieftain with the armour, and Perun with the military economics all pivoting to providing great information on this war!
Greetings from Hungary! There was one PzH 2000 sent to the Hungarian Defence Forces in January as a reference vehicle. Then it was sent back to Germany in February. The crew training still undergoing in Germany but the first SPHs are scheduled to arrive in late spring-early summer, although the exact date is not yet public. They are to be issued to the 101st Artillery Battalion, 25th György Klapka Infantry Brigade in Tata.
Good video. The conclusion is simple: faced with a superior Russian firepower the Ukrainian will use speed and mobility for local 'punch' The PzH will provide fast responce and/or counterbattery fire and the M777 will provide 'the brawn' Not a perfect thing , but a really workable thing. Hals und Beinbruch ! like they say.
However much the Russian army's sheer firepower _seems_ greater, as we keep seeing, it's just so poorly applied and inefficient in operation that Ukraine's military can do a lot more with a lot less.
'..faced with a superior Russian firepower the Ukrainian will use speed and mobility for local 'punch' that is your conclusion but it was not in the vid. You will concede that 'punch' is not a strategy. Do you have any idea what these heavy weapons are going to do? I mean really, what are they for? I know they fire shells. What is the purpose of their deployment? No-one seems to have a clue and some people do not seem to even care. It's all very peculiar.
From what I have seen, it seems likely to me that the Ukrainian forces are relatively connected into the NATO command and control networks. I think this would go a long way towards explaining how it is the Ukrainian Air Force can still function. Might also well explain what happened to the Moskva along with how things turned out for all those Russian generals.
We can be 100% sure that NATO is feeding the Ukrainians everything they can. Added to that is every Babushka in the country is watching the Russians and reporting their movements. Putin has dug himself into a deep hole. The Americans are delivering arms to Ukraine right under Putin's nose. The reality is NATO is not far from war with Putin.
@@greggstrasser5791 But what makes it ironic is the fact that everything Russia has done to stop Ukraine from joining the western sphere of influence has only guaranteed exactly what they don't want. Russia is its own greatest enemy at this point.
@@greggstrasser5791 Because NATO is expanding on its own, its not at all because the countries surrounding Russia seek protection within NATO from Russian imperialist ambitions under Dugins screwed up doctrines... Yeah, its just NATO expansion, it doesnt matter you have to apply to join it.
Those things would be devastating for morale. *One battery* of them can fire and a minute later 20+ shells will hit the enemy in a single salvo. And they are already back in motion before the enemy got their wits together. In theory, of course.
@Tom K In case they're still capable of firing, they won't fire back on them - they'll only fire back at the positions that was left before the first shells hit the Russians. That's the whole point of The PzH2000: Hit and run tactics.
@@tomk3732 That could work. If they were not about 5-15km short in range 😆 No mater the modernisatins, a 1988 basis just is not going to cut it. Try something developed a bit closer to this century.
That aged fast, Italy are sending PZH 2000 as well, Germany is sending Gepard (though not clear whose paying for them) and Switzerland vetoed the German Gepard ammunition being transferred so Brazil is now providing the ammo for the Gepard.
@@RobFeldkamp you know the Donbass region used to be part of Russia that was given to Ukraine and has long held aspirations to rejoin the motherland yes?
Na it's bad I hope the Ukrainian forces learn how to destroy it correctly because it would be a nightmare if any enmie would get the technologies of it
@@jankarl7896 What technology would that be? The Russians got datalinks too and they pioneered automated loading system and had them long befor the west.
Artillery is part of it. But they've been kicking ass at ambushes, most of the ambushes I've seen where multiple tanks are hit, the entire column retreats
Do you relly think that the Ukrainians never seen an artillery piece in their lives? Towed or SP? The Soviet doctrine was famous for being artillery heavy. They grow up on that stuff...
Yeah, infantry is the Queen of Battle, but artillery is the King of Battle (that's what the posters told me when I was in Basic). Nobody believes this as much as the Russians.
Regarding the Pz2000 driver needing time to be trained to repair, the way to get around that, is that you send one guy to learn how to drive in the EU, and another(s) to do maintenance, once they are in theater, they can help train each other. IF there is no room in the PZ2000, the extra guy(s) can ride with any infantry assigned to provide security/MANPAD support.
I remember reading about the Pzh 2000 about 20 years ago, in my Jane's Guide to Military Vehicles....it seemed like a very impressive modern self propelled howitzer compared with the older U.S. M-109 or Russian 2S3 which were still being used in the Middle East at the time. The Pzh was/is definitely on my list of SP Arty to buy if I ever need to raise my own personal army. But with the low production numbers and limited units available for export, it would be quite optimistic to ever hope obtaining one.
Very nice and informative article! Weapon itself is Mercedes of Artillery and I am glad Croatia got some. As for Ukraine right now, in addition to being high value target, another problem is how to provide enough fuel and especially ammunition over 1000km of exposed supply line. These beasts eat a truckload of shells in a minute if they get angry. And if I may add, each of these weapons have firepower of battalion consisting of 12 old 152/155 towed howitzers.
Would you make a video about Schneider 1897 cannons in german service as Pak 97/38? This is a pretty interesting subject, it was used in quite big number as for foreign equipment, it also used HEAT shells. I even heard that polish anti tank ammo for Schneiders were used by the germans against soviet tanks. Anyways, it is definetely a forgotten weapon.
This would be interesting. I first became aware of this playing the Steel Division 2 campaign as Finland in the continuation war and was surprised to see French 75s in use as PaK 97/38. That said I’m not sure there is enough to really do an entire video on, and I think this or a similar topic has been covered in previous videos on Beutewaffen
I know it from a Tank Commander from the start of 2000 when Panzerhaubitze 2000 was introduced. The 5/6 Shoots simultaniuce Impact variation comes from the problem of the meaning of "Simulataniuce". The definition varies between 5 to 10 seconds and that by a shell flight time from 1 to 5 Minutes!!!
I had the expectation that more European countries would send a small amount of these weapons 4 up to 8 seems a very low number to me. for all the logistics and training required to make it work properly. but perhaps it is wise to see if the Ukrainians have some success with it, before dozens of these advanced weapons are sent
Oh they absolutely sending artillery here. Each country sends about a dozen, but thats a lot if you combine them all. Every gun uses NATO 155mm ammunition, so strain on logistics should not be to bad. Spare parts and trained mechanics would still be needed thought.
"if the Ukrainians have some success with it" - yes, they'll have success in prolonging the war and having even more of their people killed. It would be nice of the Russians if they just gave back Crimea to Ukraine on a silver platter, but that won't ever happen, no matter how much setbacks they'll suffer. And if the goal is to make Russia collapse, you wouldn't like seeing it happen, a desperate opponent who has nothing to lose is the most dangerous opponent imaginable.
The issue is most European countries especially the western ones don't have many artillery pieces themselves, Britain has about 96 itself for example. So none of them can really afford to send a huge shipment to Ukraine without weakening their own ability.
Training seems to start for Ukrainians, so once they know how to operate them, further shipments will be useful. I really hope German manufacturers ramp up production "just for the case". The offered 100 PzH 2000 within 2 years is more a long-term perspective.
Because of the fact that Germany is on the same continent, is much easier for them to transport the ammo but who cares if they are interchangeable this is even more great news!! More ammo -> more better!
I controlled the Phz2000 a couple of times. The Dutch and the German ones. Their multiple rounds simultaneous impacts... they could never do because of many reasons (excuses). Their systems get a lot of down time. But when they are up, they are pretty fast to respond. I am wondering however which C2 system they are gonna use. The Dutch ELIAS/AFSIS or the German ADLER III.
I think that they'll use the Dutch system, because they are of Dutch origin. Switching would be a hassle if nothing else, unless Germany also sends some of its PzH 2000s
The simultaneous impact trick is easy, you just have to start the software, but multiple rounds also need a larger distance as target wich the most shooting ranges did not provide. There have been some PZH2k in Afghanistan and their they German army had enaugh space to test it out.
Excellent discussion, and you brought up the two most important considerations that had occurred to me: Complexity of the weapons system, and its sheer weight. I, too, have studied the Eastern Front in WWII 🙂, and the consequences of Hitler’s obsession with SPGs. The Panzerhaubitz sounds like a great weapons system, but there isn’t enough time to train Ukrainian troops in its use. The lighter weight and relatively easy transportation of the “triple 7s” make it the right choice for the open fields of Ukraine 🇺🇦, well worth the sacrifice of sheer firepower that the Panzerhaubitz has to its advantage. After all … have you ever seen even the fastest armored vehicles move at anywhere near the speed at which even a heavily-laden “Jolly Green Giant” can get around? 🙂 And helicopters don’t need roads or even open fields to get the big bangers where they need to be 🙂! Again, thanks for an excellent presentation! 🇺🇦🌻 Cnaba Ykpaïhi 🌻🇺🇦!
Movement by helicopters is a) only possible if you have any, b) not useful at all in an artillery duel and c) only practical if your opponent can't send fighters to shoot your helicopters down. I'm not sure about a) in case of the Ukraine. How many transport helicopters do they have and how many are left? I'm pretty sure they aren't trained to move artillery pieces with it, that would have to be learned first. b) is rather obvious: you want the first few hundred meters to be fast if you have to avoid counter artillery fire, you don't particularly care about the speed of the entire journey. A helicopter is the worst choice for that, even a simple tractor is preferable. Waaaay less time to set up, even if slower over long distances. c) I have no clue about, neither side seems to use aircraft to high effect. Still, a swarm of transport helicopters to move a battery isn't exactly inconspicuous and Ukrainian forces seem to rely on ambushes quite a lot. At a guess they would prefer to tow they triple 7s even if they have crews trained for movement by air.
@@autohmae I hope you are right about there being enough time for the training, but that’s the real concern - going into Summer, things may start to move very quickly. So far, it hasn’t been the Russian pattern to take advantage of their mobility in ideal tank-country, but I fear their approach may change once they’ve got at least some of their equipment repaired and re-supplied. Several weeks is a long time if “Ivan” decides to make a real move. Have to hope Team Zelenskyy 🇺🇦😁can hold present positions long enough for the training to be accomplished!
@@michaelkensbock661 Very good points all around, and unfortunately we are operating in an information “fog” about many of the underlying conditions. Not sure what the order-of-battle looks like on the Ukrainian side, especially after 2+ months of war. IF Ukraine had heavy-lift choppers to begin with, they are most-likely intact if they weren’t on the ground around Kyiv or Kharkyiv, because Team Zelenskyy 🇺🇦😁 have not been able to go on the offensive (yet), not in a big way, and so haven’t had call to bring out their choppers, if any. And I should have been more explicit about the role in which I’d employ choppers to move arty - you are quite right that it’s a no-go under actual firefight conditions. What I was looking at is that we’ve got a very long battle-front (400+ miles?), but Ukraine is on the inside of the overall “crescent”, with great interior-lines. What I was envisioning was the need to move a battery or batteries quickly once a particular stretch of front is relatively secured. It *is* curious, though, that there simply hasn’t been much use of air-power on either side. Of course, a whole lot of extremely-angry and motivated Ukranians with Stinger missiles may have something to do with that, at least from the Russian point of view 😎. On a happy note: You mention being able to move the Triple-7s around with tractors 😁 - oh, does Ukraine have tractors 😆! Most of Ukraine is beautiful farmland like the Great Plains here in the U.S., so they have a veritable “second army” of heavy farm-equipment to tow the guns around 😁! It’s cracked me up all along to see farmers firing up their tractors to go out and remove the Russian Trash 🤣 from the highways and byways (burned-out tanks, etc.)! The best part was when one of President Zelenskyy’s boys, probably the minister of finance or something, put out a press-release that taxes would not be assessed against anyone who “harvested” Russian “scrap-metal” 😎 (not on the scrap, at least). The IRS here in the U.S. probably *would* assess taxes on salvage 😋😎 - yet another reason to shout Cnaba Ykpaïhi 😆🇺🇦🌻!
germany has endless ammunition for it. its our system and we have over 120 of that unbeliavable weappons. So germany could deliver the ammuntion to ukraine. Its actaully A SHAME that we didnt ALLREADY send 50 panzerhaubitzen 2000 to ukriane. this is the most effective of all heavy weappons for ukraine. With this stuff, the ukraine fighters could shreder the russian convoys in such a long range, that nothing the russians have could shot back. by the way, he is wrong, the range is much longer than 30 or 40 kilometer. We have ammunition now, which increases the range to 65 kilometer. in comprenhension to the V2 this REALLY is a wonderweappon ;-)
I took a look at the equipment being sent to Ukraine from various nations, and the US at least is sending on the order of 1000 round for each gun sent.
@@mariojakel5544 wofür? für die panzerhaubitze? wäre sowieso egal, die kann klassiscche 155 mm Natogranaten verschießen. Die hat jedes land. damit kann man auch die Granaten verschießen, die ide Amerikaner für ihre 80 155 Haubitzen dazu geschickt haben und das sind mehrere hundert tausend stück
I'm from the UK and it's a lot of fun to hear a German accent describe military stuff. How you say Panzerhaubitzer 2000 cracks me up. I didn't comment just to insult you, I enjoyed this video, thank you. UK-DE-NATO
With italian Vulcano 155 Guided Long Range (GLR), which is precision-guided munition (PGM), PzH could hit targets in 80km distance. Vulcano is already certified for PzH 2000. Excalibur could used be also, but reaches only 50km. Also, there were some imcompatibilities experienced with the loading system in early tests. But these should have been resolved by now.
Great for Ukraine would also be SMArt 155, which is dedicated anti-tank ammunition. A shell contains two submunitions which deploy parachutes over the target area and use radar and infrared to scan for targets. If they detect a target within a radius of 150 meters they fire an explosively formed projectile at it.
@@HingerlAlois at this point I was at first sure u are trolling. Than I thought about it and came to the conclusion that this is technically possible today. Crazy times we live in.
I agree, it could have been interesting to compare the potential strengths and uses of both systems which are quite complementary. France will be sending a dozen Caesar to Ukraine, and the Ukrainiens crews are currently being trained in France. Both guns have fairly similar performance in terms of range, accuracy, ammunition types and round/min but of course the carrying platform is completely different. The Pz2000 is tracked and armored but very heavy; the Caesar is wheeled but much less armored, carries less rounds but is much lighter (it can be transported by a C130 or a A400M). Both are ideal for counter battery but they would probably not be used in the same environment. It should be an interesting (although sad) experience to see their use and performance in this battlefield.
The point at the end about how the Panzerhautbitze could be propagandized as resembling the Elephant or the Hummel is particularly insightful. As a dirty American, I can only make these claims as someone who played the Company of Heroes franchise extensively, but nothing aroused me quite as emotionally (as a primarily USA player) as seeing an Elephant on the field. It was always a primary target for me, emotionally, regardless of the tactical advantage posed by the enemy. Great call to point this out.
Dirty American is a common term to use by many European countries. It's been used sometime in the UK especially because they consider Americans uncultured. And hence the nickname dirty americans. The author of this statement is simply acknowledging that he doesn't know everything about European weapons, and he's doing that in a poetic manner. Hence the term, dirty american.
@@dankuchar6821 Your assessment is correct. I do not hate myself or America. I simply added that line as a way of saying "Here are my two cents on the matter as someone who doesn't have much direct experience with the topic". A little playful humility.
@@dankuchar6821 There are many common stereotypes in use all over the world that are insulting and degrading. Just because it's in common use doesn't elevate or justify it it in any way. It's ironic and amusing that such a term would be in common use in the UK, the land of scousers, fish and chips, and bad teeth. Such culture. As long as we're trading in stereotypes, let's even things up. It's more like self-denigrating humiliation then self-deprecating humility.
It's very unlikely that the hungarian Pzh 2000 batch is going to be rerouted, because partially these vehicles are part of the hungarian armed forces upgrade in order to match the desired combat capabilities as NATO member, and even if there is a possibility to offer these, the hungarian government is heavily against donating even light weapons to Ukraine from it's own stock. (HU armed forces are in the middle of replacing the old AK-AMD based assault rifles with CZ Bren 2 models. It totally would make sense to donate these older weapons though.)
If there's will by Germany, there's not really a lot Hungary could. "Oh, sorry, we're facing some issues. Your delivery will be late." it's not that Hungary it currently helping in way that they could threat to stop the support. Orban already doesn't allow weapons Transports through their territory.
What makes it complicated is that it's a big contract. Not just Pzh 2000s, but tanks(Leo 2), and IFVs as well. It's basically the complete rearming of the Hungarian Army. Lock, stock and barrell.
@@MilitaryHistoryVisualized hier eine Meldung vom 21.12.2021 - Украина получит лучшие в мире немецкие самоходные гаубицы Panzerhaubitze 2000 , It's about a contract for 100 PzH 2000 for 1.7 billion euros including training, delivery of spare parts with Kraus Maffei, which was closed last year but there was no war at that time. The first brand new 30 self-propelled howitzers should be delivered in the first quarter of 2024.
@Patrick H So how it looks in reality: The government of Hungary signed a contract with the German manufacturer Krauss-Maffel Wegmann in december 2018 for the following items: -44 Leopard 2A7 MBT -12 Leopard 2A4 training vehicle -24 PzH2000 SP howitzer -200 Puma IFV -Various armored recovery and bridge laying vehicles. Now that looks like a contract you don't mess around. They signed a contract with also German Rheinmetall in 2019 for the purchase of -218 Lynx KF41 IFV, 172 of them to be built in Hungary in a factory built with Rheinmetall. -complete heavy ammunition manufacturing capability built with Rheinmetall. And that's just on the ground So I guess Hungary is pretty serious about this little spending spree...
@@ssm445 You'd think so. But Swedish engineers are well versed in the difficulties of rough and snow covered terrain. They could've made a tracked vehicle but opted not to.
@@sevenproxies4255 That's out of question. Still, it is bound to roads and hard/frozen terrain, which may be good for Sweden, but is likely to fail in muddy terrain (non-frozen) like Ukraine. Also, Ukraine specifically asked for armoured vehicles.
6×6wheel drive on a hydraulically actuated chassi that is a modification on a very common civilian heavy duty vehicle and thus can source spare parts for the drive train very easily. On top of that, all the wheels have a core filler that can carry a load even if punctured and while intact can have the tyre preassure adjusted from within the armored crew cab. This combination of features allows it to wade through mud and snow as long as it's wheels can keep the chassi from getting stuck and to climb any blocky terrain with less than 1m³ sized boulders, which is more than any tracked vehicle can deal with.
Honestly there should be more then enough modernized variants of the M109 around in storage to satisfies the current needs of Ukraine. Same goes for the towed M198 and other NATO counterparts.
As the video mentioned, the M198 is quite heavy and its lack of mobility exposes it to counterbattery fire. The M109, meanwhile, is old, slow-firing, and its range is hampered by the short barrel. We've tried to replace it twice, you know.
@@concinnus You still need a hauler to tow both of them regardless also M198 won't any different from other towed artillery currently employed by the Ukraine.
@@Kharmazov There are a lot more vehicles (e.g. Mi-17) that can transport 10K pounds than 16K, which is the whole reason we went to such trouble to lighten it. Certain bridges and terrain may also be able to handle the M777 and not the M198. You're right that the M198 is closer to what they have, but there's obvious value to having better artillery than the Russians.
@@concinnus You're still thinking about M777 being attached to a light infantry rather then a regular mechanized force no to mention Ukraine doesn't currently have nowhere near the air lift capacity the US enjoys ergo it not being a major issue. And at this point any modern functioning artillery will be greeted with opened hands, especially as the 152mm calibre ammo is slowly running out.
Another nice feature of this channel is the technical and political details are explained from different points of view. Things are compared and contrasted. So when the nightly news broadcast gets it completely wrong, biased towards one side, and makes it seem like Ukraine will be firing these things tomorrow, I can see through the shenanigans and get a clearer picture.
The PzH would have to be deployed with massive anti air protection though. First of all: The fight in the east isn't as "easy" as in Kyiv, because Russia can and does fly air sorties there. Which means the PzH doesn't only have to worry to be a HVT for ground forces and artillery but also the Russian air force and drones. So Ukraine is probably going to deploy it in such a way that it's best protected and as far away from enemy positions as possible while still hitting them. Also the maximum range of it is correct, however you cannot use multiple round simultaneous impact at maximum distance, because physics. The maximum range is achieved with a ~45° angle.
I just replied about these things being a liability, much like migs would be. Costly to operate and maintain and a lack of precision. When firing on your own land you don’t want to scorch the earth. Russia is fine doing that with howitzers in Ukraine already. Long range sam combine with drones, man portable guided anti armour and aircraft for short to medium range.
Unrelated, but I love how you say "kilo-meter" instead of running it together into "kilometer" like most English speakers, sounds so much cleaner on the ear.
I get their desire to not diminish operational readiness, but the operational readiness of the German armed forces was deemed so completely unsatisfactory as to require a policy shift and newfound commitment in the budget. It’s not like they’re preserving an already credible defense by holding back some artillery pieces. They will do far more to protect Germany’s interests if they are placed in the hands of Ukrainian artillerymen with all speed.
Yes and no... For one, you may have to consider the difference between what Germany is keeping in reserve and what it has committed to NATO reaction forces. Quality and readiness differ greatly between units. Secondly, according to the latest ministry report, the situation is not quite as drastic as some media headlines make it out to be -- specifically, there are certain systems that are in dire need of fixing (the army's helicopter fleet in particular was singled out as problematic), but you are essentially saying that Germany should give away one of its best systems that still is in perfect condition. That's a political landmine *if* the situation should escalate and NATO expected to mobilize further.
News about the low readiness of German military material are highly misleading. International commenters don't know and don't take into account what silly high standards for what they consider "combat ready" the Germans have. They will have a list that determines in what integrals each little spare part of a vehicle has to be checked and maintained and if any of those are over due, they ground the whole vehicle as "not combat ready" until every part has been checked. For example, they have a fighter jet and there is a little temperature sensor somewhere deep in the bowels of the machine and their maintenance list says it needs to be taken out and checked every 100 flight hours or so and because they currently don't have the man power to take apart the whole plane to check that little thing, the jet gets grounded and listed as "out of order" until they got around to doing the job. So you have tons of vehicles and equipment that is totally fine and would be considered pristine and ready in most other armies, being considered and listed as out of business by German bureaucracy. Being overly cautious with maintenance lists and stamps and qualification levels of equipment is one thing, but giving away that stuff as if it were broken, just because it is on a "to do" list, is something else. Yes, there are issues with under-funding and readiness levels in the German military, but the news being reported, even by the German press, tend to be highly exaggerated and misleading.
Also, what are we preserving operational readiness for? Are we under threat from a neighbouring country? No. Do we plan on sending our troops to aid Ukraine? Again. No. This whole idea of preserving operational readiness is like someone refusing their neighbour, whose house is burning, a fire extinguisher out of fear the fire may spread to their house which it will if the neighbour is unable to put the fire out.
In this case, it’s more like, hanging onto a fire extinguisher in case the fire spreads to someone else’s house, from someone else’s house. Either way, it’s needed to help put out a fire that’s raging in Eastern Europe, not Central Europe. And while yes, some might object to Germany diluting their commitment to NATO mobilization. This has, after all, been a running theme. But I suspect that only Hungary is likely to object IF the reason the Bundeswehr is light on artillery is because they sent more than just a single battery to Ukraine. I would be inclined to agree with all your arguments, under different circumstances. However, there is a real opportunity here, that few expected on day one of the war, to actually stop Putin in eastern Ukraine. That has changed the calculations, and NATO members are realizing that. Just not all at the same pace.
Thanks Cristophe. Not withstanding Germany's situation with limited numbers of the P2000, I think it's widely acknowledged that Scholtz's support for Ukraine has been woeful, as you have rightfully acknowledged. Modern military equipment for Ukraine would be ideal, but given the Ukrainian superior training and strategy, now that they have been given artillery from partners that can outrange the Russians, all they seem to be lacking is enough long range air defence (S300's) and air support. It's great that Germany sent the Gepard, but Ukraine already has an abundance of short range air defence systems both indigenous and from partners. The provision of outdated Gepard's by Scholtz from storage was nothing more than a superficial political move of appeasement for the international community.
Neither does the German people, most European militaries are hilariously underfunded and worryingly under-appreciated…odd considering how they lived next to the biggest threat in human history (well until China’s rise)
@@ShomiTheGreat Production capacity is that bad, because we forced German weapon manufacturers to run financally efficient while facing our super low order numbers, for the most part (export restrictions also have an effect). This situation got worse slowly over time. Cost per unit went up like crazy, production time per unit got even longer. Germany accepted these changes, due to us living in pretty peace times and due to money saving measures. Our new green-agenda hasn't even hit this area yet.
Well, that is the sole and only problem we have. WTF? And lets just ignore that Germany is the 4th highest ranking heavy-war-weapons exporter in the world, for Rifles 10% and Pistols/Revolvers 20% (2017-2020). The Bundeswehr gets what is needed and what is provided by the democratic elected government. Someone is not okay with that? Move to Russia! In terms of defense spending in relation to gross domestic product, Germany (2021) is in the upper midfield at 1.3%. This changed a lot in 2022. For comparison, the US with its nuclear weapons and bells and whistles 3.5%, Russia 4.1% and Saudi Arabia 6.6%. My personal opinion is that I hope never to get into a combat situation with you clowns because you seem to have a problem with reality. Something like that might not matter on RUclips, but it's guaranteed to be deadly in combat or in action:P Jetzt, WEITERMACHEN ihr trauriges Geschleich!
The symbolism here is quite amazing. With the Russians taking the place of the Wehrmacht, Ukraine the SU, and the Elephant, just being the oddball, but striking, reference (nice one, Military History Visualized!),
Are there no longer any modern 105mm systems in service? Of course, both 152-155mm and 105mm have their obvious advantages and disadvantages (range + destructiveness vs. ammo storage + ROF), but what prompted the change from 105 mm to only 155 mm? As such, I think the Leopard 1 could still offer some good service as a self-propelled direct-fire artillery piece?
@@Welterino That's correct. But the German (and US) standard medium piece was the 105 mm - both towed and self-propelled (StuH 42 and various other chassis'). The British used the smaller 25 pdr (88 mm?). The Soviets seemed to have used a wide variety of sizes, from 76mm to 152 mm. An often overlooked side of the Polish campaign was the disparity of the artillery (105 mm vs. Polish 75 mm), which actually was as significant as Luftwaffe and the mechanized units in the victory.
Blackhawks can transport 105mm howitzers. Its also far easier to airdrop 105mm howitzers from a c-17 then a m777 155m gun. Humvess can town a 105m gun while it takes an LMTV truck to tow a 155m gun.
I you used to be a gunner on one of these beauty’s. The shoot and scoot capability of these things is no small thing. I have done a couple of large scale exercises involving counter battery (enemy artillery aiming for your firering position). And it is great fun to see a exercise referee standing ready to “kill” everyone in the splash zone. As soon as he gets the call from the radio that the counter battery has fired. Only to be the last person being there because the guns have already left for the next shooting position. One thing I like to add. Training for the crew’s can be done in 4-6 weeks. But training for the commander will take longer.
We talking 4-6 weeks for newbies, or seasoned, motivated artillerymen on soviet models of arty (Ukrainians)? Because people throw around 4-6 weeks without ever mentioning the previous skills of the soldiers you train + wartime motivation + wartime process streamlining/ expediency. Like, can somebody explain how is that not crucial info?
@@elektrotehnik94 it al depends. Ofcourse there are parts that can be expedited but not much. It is a very complex machine a large part of the training is learning the names and functions and operations of every part. Than there are the drills. They have to be trained. A human mind can only learn so much in so little time before it wont go in long term memory. Than there is the language barrier. Then there is the question how much freedom the soldier gets from the crew commander. For instance Dutch crew train to start doing there part of the machine inmidiatly after the call for fire is out. While the German way is more top down. Crew commander tells every man which button to press. There are pros and cons to each way. Crew training can be shortened the German way, but it takes more time to train a crew commander. Than there is the issue of the driver. He gets a completely different training. And after all that if you are certified you still need to learn allot of things you only learn on the job. It will definitely be a big plus for a new crew to be former military and even better former artillery man. But there is only so much one can take from another system to this one. TLDR: 4-6 weeks is a guesstimate. And it al depends on what you mean bij being trained/operational really.
The m777 is a top of the line towed artillery piece, relatively new, and definitely in active service with both the Marine Corps and the Army. Just to make sure that’s clear.
That is true, but it is also a towed gun, which means it is incredibly vulnerable to counter-battery fire, both because it takes longer to displace after firing (you can comfortably double or triple the numbers that were given for M777 emplacement/displacement times; the given times are for laboratory perfect conditions), and the simple lack of shrapnel protection for the crew, ammunition, and delicate machinery/electronics. Towed howitzers are best used in places where enemy artillery is sharply lacking, either because they don't have any (COIN), because they can't get their artillery onto the battlefield (Marines & Mountain troops), or because you attacked them where they weren't prepared (Airborne/-mobile forces).
Any good force has primarily towed artillery, supplemented by heavier, more expensive, more supply intensive, more difficult to maintain, but ostensibly more mobile, SP guns. Either way, the m777 takes about 1-2m to break down and get moving by a well trained crew. The fastest Russian counter battery we are seeing is taking just over 4, but usually much longer. Long gone.
@@boosterh1113 The US Army doctrine for 155s is more use as a counter battery fire element. Russia uses its maneuver elements to fix enemy formations to be destroyed by artillery. US (and by extension NATO) uses maneuver units as the primary attack elements. Artillery is about area denial, counterbattery, and battlespace shaping. In the case of the M777s, they are (normally) in battalions mixed with M119s which are 105mm guns. General practice is to use the 105s wherever possible while the longer range 155s are over watch. The line item that gets skipped in the US shipments to Ukraine is that the US is sending a number of AN/TPQ-53 counter battery radars. This makes sense as these new artillery pieces will not give Ukraine the advantage. It appears to me as an attempt to improve Ukraine's counter battery capability.
Fired the 155mm in vietnam great cannon , self propelled every fire suport base had at least 3 and LZ action had 175 mm long tom plus 8" howlitzer . the 175 mm took about 15 min . to load H E. 4th div.
The war in Ukraine is providing very stark examples of how modern combat effectiveness is reliant upon factors such as maintenance, training, communications, and logistics, as opposed to traditional military metrics like raw troop numbers or shell calibre. It doesn't matter if you have more guns that can fire bigger shells a longer distance, if a) the gun is broken, b) you don't have any shells and c) you don't know where you are or what direction you should be firing. If the German Army says gunners can be trained on this system in six weeks, then I'm impressed. What concerns me is this system seems very reliant on being able to receive and process accurate (and encoded) targeting data. Presumably NATO has a coordinated system that compiles data on potential targets from a variety of sources (drones, direct observation, satellites, aircraft). Then passes that data through a command structure, which then relays a fire mission the artillery unit. In order for such a system to work you have to have extremely accurate and reliable information systems. You have to have high confidence in your knowledge of a) where the target is; b) what the target is; c) the location of any potential friendly units in the vicinity of that target; and d) the location of the artillery unit and its ability to get to a projected firing area. And then you've got to hope that the gunners have the right mix of ammunition on hand to complete the mission as directed. That's a lot of variables. I the Ukrainians have the capabilities to take advantage of this weapon.
At the end of the day, the data link of an artillery sysrem is just a tool of convenience that speeds up the process from spotting to shells in the air. Every byte of data can be relayed by voice radio or even morse code telegraphy and either manually fed into the ballistics calculator of the firing unit, or even calculated by hand using ballistics charts and physical plotting discs/tables and then used to manually traverse and elevate the guns to the correct position. It'll take 10-20times longer to process, so any advanced firemissions will need a longer lead time, and some of the more advanced munitions that require electronic shell programming from the ballistics computer will be unavaliable, but otherwise, it'd be buisness as usual.
The Gepard-deal looks weird from every angle: 1) it takes a lot of training 2) Germany had only enough ammunition for a minute of combat and it seems to be very hard to come by 3) Germany has shelved them apparently before their successor was fully developed 4) the stop gap seems to be under 100 pieces
This entire conflict is weird af. It has no military or local economy character at all. It is basically a shift of global economic order from USA to China, and it's manifesting itself through USA draining the EU economy and modern weapon stockpiles, and Russia draining its obsolete weaponry stockpiles under economic sanctions. It's basically China vs USA --- manifesting itself through Russia and EU going poor.
Imho these specific requests for german armor is also a political move (if not primarily so) to keep the pressure on the chancellor to agree & to soften general resistance to such support.
Now is generally a good time to get Ukraine off the old Soviet stuff and move to more modern systems. Now that Kyiv appears to be safe, NATO should be using it’s training facilities to train both new Ukrainian crewmen and training experienced crews on newer systems. We should begin getting ready replacements for many big ticket items such as F-16s, Patriot, new MBTs, and new SPGs. Getting Ukraine trained on these systems will put even more pressure on Putin to conclude the war(since he likely doesn’t want his forces to fast modern western equipment) and even if the war ends before the systems can be put into Ukrainian service, they will be good for deterring Russia from returning to Ukraine.
Do you have a surplus storage full of those or where will you get them from? At least in europe most countries have none of the modern systems to spare. And current production is a trickle at best.
@@yves2932 I am not saying it will happen overnight or even in a few months. Of course, it will take time to get production lines warmed up and running or time to refurbish surplus stock. There is a good chance it might not even arrive before the war’s conclusion. But what I am saying is that the process should get started sooner than later.
Most probably Ukrainian side will allocate PzH2000 to dedicated teams with battlefield integration capability for effective counterbattery and high value target strikes. Ukraine's Armed Forces have demonstrated capability of combining live areal recon (UAVs) with ranged weapons support (artillery strikes). PzH2000 would provide Ukrainian army with enhanced capability and experience, that may encourage further deliveries of advanced weapons to Ukraine.
This is very much a defensive unit considering the range. Fully capable of adaptive reaction measures according to specific tactics in multiple situations, and fast enough to act, react, move, mislead, then disappear before a counter attack. The worst thing, is that it's very large, but also being large capable of tracking through grounds that tanks could get stuck, I'm not sure if he mentioned that, but this giant can travel over grounds that would sink Russian tanks. It also uses a very common round, meaning it should be available under the worst of logistic issues...it is a very large target tho, so whoever is manning it, is a very brave, and determined soul indeed imo. oh, one other cool thing, it can easily be used to hide many troops on escort into front line areas, inside and out, that may be important. I have no doubt the Ukrainians can adjust their skillset to use these vehicles efficiently.
if they use the right shells and assign sufficient numbers of anti-air defences to thee units, the pzh2000 can work from a safe distance without too many worries. russians only have old rocket artillery which isn't very accurate at the same distances. it's still just a few vehicles, so the impact is likely to be very limited, and they might have problems with the weight of the vehicle.
Considering the small area of current Russian advances, the high volume of Russian tanks (assuming they dont get hit by A-T weapons) , I wonder how many of these will be sent into the thick of eastern and southern Ukraine. Moving them by rail is the only way due to their weight and slow speed (plus fuel demand). WE can assume the missing P2000 are currently being fitted with reactive armour to minimise their losses where possible, while Ukrainian artillery troops are being pulled into training (or reserves). The Russians have not felt alot of artillery and it will slow them down but unless they mass in big numbers, I'm not sure what a small number can do apart from offer a city protection as Russians get near. The towed guns like the A-T weapons allow fire and move options with the russians slow to respond. However the Ukrainians are benefiting from NATO level aerial intelligence to locate large moving targets. They might be used to slow any advance on the prized Odessa port and connecting to Moldova and the Russian troops resupply. Hitting forward Russian bases within Donbas/Crimea and newly held territory might do alot of damage when the Russians have until now, little to fear inside their "borders" apart from the odd drone strike or anti ship missile
Powerful tool. I think what is very important is the first hit probabilty. Seems to be good in that department. With 5-6 Shots, could you sink or seriously damage a big warship in the harbor or on anchor within reach?
The ship would generally stay out of missile range after the Moskva sinking, which would put it way beyond artillery range. It would also be near impossible to hit it at the waterline (artillery has ~50m inaccuracy with unguided shells). But the Moskva was sunk apparently by the Neptunes hitting the Moskva's ballistic missiles on its deck, so maybe the waterline isn't important. Also, Canada has sent some guided Excalibur shells.
@@p_serdiuk I know. Their early claim about sinking a ship with Grads was tied to a ship that was on fire, but it turned out that was an unrelated civilian ship probably hit by the Russians.
I wonder will Germany attempt to purchase some of those stored guns from Holland? for itself and to further train/ reinstate its own capabilitys? (BTW your "sound" for me at least, is much better! the echo effect is much reduced. Well done on another well-reserched presentation)
Actually, the engine is not from either Leopard. It's the MTU 881, a 8-cylinder version of the 883 developped as an upgrade for Leopard 2 but never put in service in the Bundeswehr...yet.
@@torstenbrandt5628 It's not, it's an entirely new generation. The MB 838 is part of the late 50's generation comprising the MB 837 and MB 833. Then we got the Leopard 2's MB 873 in the 70s (development started in 65), with the 10-cylinder MB 872 and the 8-cylinder 871 (used in the Korean K1) The MB 881 is part of the 3rd generation developped in the late 70s and 80s with the 883 and others. The 4th generation MB 890 series was fielded in the 2000s on the Puma IFV. The manufacturer and legacy are the same, but the design of each generation was very different.
former FDC and Gunner of the PzH2000, i may missed it, but the largest advantage of the PzH2000 is, that every 'Automated' failure can be done by hand, Loading is not working? do it with your hand, Communication is broken? Tipe it into the calculating computer, etc. Germany is nowhere near a solid Artillery force most PzH2000 are in service since 98-00 so they become largly more complicates to maintain, because the Artillery is one of Brachnes that gets less money than lets say the Paratrooper because Artillery was not really needed in any german 'Conflict' the four PzH in Afghanistan were the firdt and last time. i really love the PzH but i dont see the capability to sell/give them away since the Batteries have to scape together the last ones working proper to go to LTU. best regards.
Yeah, I should have made that more explicit. I mention only that at least 3 people are necessary, but there is 5 crew in case something does not work. The issue is, the automated system is made to be fast and fire a lot of stuff in a short amount of time, so the speed probably can't be maintained in manual mode.
@@MilitaryHistoryVisualized It depends on the Crew, to load 60 Rounds, I would say to do it manuel is alot faster(in my expierince) but you have to "tell" the Tank what Shell you did where, if you only have HE this is no issue. All malfunctions that can happen (some over 70) can be done by the crew, but to learn that, you need time a good trained commander is needed in the 2000 or an expierinced Loader. But yes it takes longer to load or work the Gun if the Automatic system fails, but in this I have to say the Automatic Target calculation had never failed for me or for my 20year+ commander/Comrades. Most time it is the Autoloader which fails but even that rarly happend if you clean it after every Fire-Order.
@@MilitaryHistoryVisualized Also worked with Dutch Artillery crews, the Dutch Pzh2000 is alot better than the German one. It works smooth and is alot more Crew Friendly ^-^
Question --- what has been the shortest and average counter-battery fire reaction time exhibited by the Russians in Ukraine? They seem to have fallen way short on virtually every "expected" metric of military effectiveness, so the worry about counter-battery fire on towed artillery may be overblown?
@@BigSmartArmed Today they're fighting puny Ukraine. And barely making progress. Enjoy Sweden & Finland joining NATO because of Tsar Puny's war crimes.
In a properly executed fire mission it is impossible for counter battery fire to get the 2000. After the first round is fired it leaves firing position within the next 2,5 minutes. No artillery in the world can deliver the shell in this timespan. That‘s why it was designed like that.. Air threats are a different thing though..
The Slovak 155 mm SpGH ZUZANA 2 can also fire multiple round simultaneous impact, though I was not able to find a specific number of simultaneous hits. Furthermore, there is some talk in Slovakia about sending these SPGs to Ukraine.
A couple of media outlets claimed 20 PzH 2000s were being sent from Netherlands, but you never know with some of these sources. The Ukraine war is already becoming a massive artillery duel in the east of the country, Ukrainian forces are going to need a lot more heavy artillery and rocket systems to effectively counter the Russian batteries.
Maybe they need to buy them themselfs, we owe them nothing. They would have been part of the EU and NATO a long time ago if they went that corrupted. We need our Pzh's back...
The Ukrainians don't have the same capabilities as the US army for deploying M777 guns. It is a very complex ballet, in which several branches need to cooperate perfectly.
The Ukranians have experience with towed artillery from Soviet era. They only have to learn to operate the specific system, not learn artillery from scratch. Big difference. It doesn't even matter what tows the gun. The Soviet doctrine was artillery heavy anyway, so I'm sure they have libraries filled with books on the matter.
As long as the Russian army is tied up in Ukraine, and probably does not escape the war in good condition, most EU countries should be able to send up to 50% of their heavy weapons to Ukraine and increase the production of weapons to replace those that are sent to the Ukrainians, the crew who lose their weapons can help train Ukrainians and after that share weapons with those who are left so that they do not fall completely out of training. A heavy weapon in Ukaine increases the security of EU countries.
' A heavy weapon in Ukaine increases the security of EU countries.' Thank you Kiev. Anyway, the sober reality is that sending heavy weapons into an active war zone REDUCES everyone's security. Especially when there is zero clear, or even vague; strategy behind their use. If you must, FIRST figure out what you are trying to achieve THEN start killing Russians. Never the other way around. Honest. You'll see what I mean.
I understand your point. But im sure, if we "all" would send, lets say, even 30% of our weapons to Ukraine, Russia would just simply use strategic or tactical nukes. In that way it would decrease the security of our borders because our weapons are gone. The west needs to find a good balance, to not provocate Russia to use those weapons and to bring enough to Ukraine to help them win.
@@kloputzbuddie9223 The problem is a lack of strategic thinking, both military and political. For example, what would a 'win' for Ukraine look like? They agreed the Normandy Format but then declines to implement them. No-one thinks the eastern 'rebel' provinces will ever be ruled from Kiev again, but does Kiev accept this? Certainly not the 'hardliners'. So, what is western involvement actually intended to achieve? I have no idea and I don't think there is any unified thinking in the west. This is why sending heavy arms is almost and end in itself, for some in the west. I see no real purpose to the heavy artillery other than to kill some Russians. It's all very strange. What is the 'end game'? If no-one knows, then imo it is reckless to just send arms.
@John Richmond. even a bit of thinking before engaging their countries further and further in this war would be an achievement from those delusional twats. or maybe they know perfectly well what a complete depletion of western Europe's military asset and ammo stockpiles will do. oh well, we'll take cold showers singing the praise of the saint cokehead of Kiev and eat bugs and gravel.
As always very good analysis of this self propelled artillery gear. Another aspect not viewed in it since maybe this is a bit anecdotal : Panzerhaubitze 2000 is capable of direct fire more like an MBT as a last resort though. The Bundeswehr has performed some exercises with surprisingly good results. Maybe it would lead to a new crossover concept of self propelled gun acting like an MBT or MBT support as added firepower and then reversing to a long range canon when needed on the terrain.
I really love this channel. But can you make a video about why germany has shit the bed so bad during this war? No heavy weapons? Still buying gas as much as they can get. Vetoing sanctions. Does sholtz have support of the people there? Here in Finland he is mainly a joke and people expect germany to either get their shit together or just get rid of the old communist sympathizer.
You know, as a German, not even I can answer the popularity question of Scholz. But I assume it has been higher. However, popularity for the coalition is reasonably strong, since apparently everyone's doing a good job. In my opinion especially the greens.
The communist (well, Russia) sympathisers are in the parties AFD and linke and not in the government. Delivering heavy weapons is still, unfortunately, controversial within the population We can't move away from Russian gas quickly without destroying our economy. But we're working on it
The sanction issue is, you cant afford to just shut down the whole industry. And I'm not talking about money. It would break supply chains throughout europe you didnt even dream about. We've figured it out by now though to replace oild and coal imports from russia. Gas will take much longer as new pipelines and LNG terminals are needed and suppliers have to ramp up production, which both takes time. Some suppliers like Quatar and US companies are even unwilling to act quickly, so its not that easy. Despite all that, the target is to reduce russian gas to 33% of imports at end of the year. So yes, Scholtz has broad support to handle that carefully.
Update 3rd May 2022: It seems the German government despite the concerns of the German military has agreed to send 7 Panzerhaubitzen 2000 to Ukraine.
Dann hoffen wir mal, dass die schnell ersetzt werden ...
Oooh
@@nicholasjohnson778
Whenever anything seems out of sort, look at who is behind it;
Every
Single
Time
That's a surprise. Let's hope they are in working order too. Btw. have the legendary helmets already arrived?
The Netherlands is sending 5 of our reserve Pzr 2000. We have currently 24 in active service, 2 batteries of 9 howitsers and 1 (delta battery) of 6. In the future it probably will also have 9 which brings active pzr2000 to 27. Coming years ours with German ones are going to be upgraded due to shortage of supply of certain parts. Keep up the great work :-)
I really love how this channel, and Military Aviation History always provide a date when the video was made. Such an important detail. I saw a video yesterday that was about a Russian capital ship that was attacked. It turned out to be the Moscva...
Other fun fact the moscva was buildd in ukrain and called Slavaa before it was renamed after the sovjet union collapsed.
Moskva now sleeps with the fish in an octopus's garden in the sea.
I really think that washington want germany get absolutely involved in war with russia. We see this in vietnam where washington trow u.s. army in a no needed war.
>capital ship
Discarded rusty tub
Can't into basic history
@@BonyFingers1969 I stand with the current thing regardless of war crimes and mass graves.
Despicable pleb
AFAIK a single Panzerhaubitze can fire 5 shots in a sequence with decreasing elevation level of the barrel and different propellant charges to make all 5 shells hit the same target at the same moment. But since the last shot will be fired as direct fire this is limited to a range of about 16 km.
On the other hand the salvo of a complete battery of 6 Panzerhaubitzen can be synchronized to hit a target area at the same moment thus creating a vastly bigger impact than shells hitting one after another. This can be done at any range but has to be controled by a seperate controle.
all modern howitzers can do that
@@DJRYGAR1 the pzh2000 does accurate fire with 10-13 rpm that is crazy impressive
So what about the crazy logistics train you would need to keep those complicated monster firing at that rate? Russia has Control of the Air and there is dry few places you can hide a rapid firing SPG from IR. Hiding its supplies, ammo fuel spares etc would be even harder. Even worse? YOU HAVE TO TRAIN THE CREW FROM SCRATCH which will probably only take a few years, unless you send your own which Germany cannot do. Reality sucks.
@@primarchvulkan5097 yes but how practical is it to put all that into one crazy expensive platform?
@@JeanLucCaptain very practical if you aren't broke
A very informative and superbly researched video. Another excellent piece of work by MHV.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Mostly correct information, which is rare on RUclips. But you repeated the political myth that a reluctant chancellor was solely responsible, when in fact a government security council controlled by a parliamentary defense council decides about weapons export allowances.
Molotov - Ribbentrop 2.0. Russian army steals Ukraine natural resourses, sells this to Germany, who in return produce goods to Russia. Basically 1930s secret deal in our time.
Hardly superbly researched when Australian M777's had already been delivered to Ukraine before the US had even sent one.
A very well made video. From other sources, I have heard one of the key reasons Ukraine wants NATO 155's; whether towed or self-propelled, is because there are only so many 152 mm rounds for their Soviet or Russian made weapons; both in Ukraine and in NATO countries equipped with those same howitzers. The longer this conflict drags on, the more important this fact will become.
They were slowly buying NATO arms
Kharkov has the plants that produce ammo and spare parts for those 152mm howitzers......(it's currently under siege)
@@4T3hM4kr0n I suspect those facilities were already taken out by russian strikes though.
Astute observation fella
You are correct in that case of the 15.2 cm Howitzers these are also made in Former Czechoslovakia and Poland. Furthermore they can also manufacture 12.5cm shells
unlike almost every other Channel i get accurate unbiased and sensible information from this channel keep it up I'm really enjoying it and feel informed
Danke für die gut recherchierten und informativen Videos!
Danke für die Unterstützung!
In Italy we are talking about sending the m109 (300 in storage, 221 of witch have been modernized in the 90s) and the phz2000 but, as you pointed out, the latter is difficult because of low numbers.
Italy has just some "spares": 63 pieces total produced under license by OTO Melara - three batallions, 18 guns each in operation, and what's was not yet cannibalised as spares of the 14 in between reserves, training (both basic gunnery and maintenance) and one kept as "sample".
M109 were mostly retired in the late 90s, so they are out in the rain for more than 20 years.
The last batch was retired when PzH2000 came, but many of those were sold to other nations: so few "fresh" ones left.
Governament approved a package of military aid, the list was secret, so no public disclosure of what and when will be provided.
With the Panzerhaubitze 2000's ability to pick a spot shoot some round and move again, it's perfect for "shoot 'n scoot" usage. As long as it gets accurate targeting information and the system stays functional, it can keep on the move before the russians can scramble air assets to even look for it.
That is why Ukraine requested self-propelled artillery. The tactics are based on high mobility of all assets. Every unit from an anti-tank killteam to a whole brigade are constantly on the move.
@@SergMuller they are using quad-ATVs for hit and run attacks. They usually arrive at the Russian's destination before the Russians, ambush them and motor off across the countryside. These people are hardcore. I hate war but I admire balls.
Imagine these operating under a protective umbrella of long range SAMs & Stingers 😈
The Ruskys are mostly flying over their own territory, with all the anti air manpads flying over Ukraine is a risky business. The main danger is being targeted by enemy artillery.
But pair this system with firefinder that the US are giving them it might be a game changer. Firefinder can detect incoming shells and calculate where they are being shot from. Relay the coordinates to the howitser and hey presto Bob is your uncle.
@@johnmockingyou7547 Imagine these operating under a CAP of F 15s
Nice of the Dutch Armed forces to be sending a couple of PzH2000's. When I was in training to become a Arty M109 Cmdr in the Dutch Armed Forces, (KL) in early 2000's, me and my fellow NCO trainees went to Munster and the Panzer museum and Artillerie Lage. (we also had our Arty shooting exercises in Munster Sud) We were one of the first groups from the KL that was sitting on top of a PzH2000. They came into service in the Dutch Armed forces a couple of years later. A great piece of equipment (although MASSIVE!!) with many advantages compared to the M109 or towed Arty Pieces. Biggest advantage is the: get fire mission; get in unprepared fire position and fire a salvo of shells within mere minutes. Then leave again before the shells hit on target. Very hard for counter Bat fire to be effective if you are gone before shells hit. i'm not going into too much detail as to what capabilities it has, because I believe that is classified.
When I left the armed forces we were cutting costs of the military. I'm amazed that they have so many in storage, compared to in active service. Should be the other way around --> more active than in storage. But eh, now they can send some to Ukraine.
thanks for the respect towards the Netherlands.
but how do you feel about Germany's stand in this war ? I thank you in advance. 👍🏼
Then add Excalibur and BONUS 155mm shells with them.
@@zalix512
Not Bonus but SMArt 155.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMArt_155
As an Infantry Branch officer in the reserves who served four years in a 105 towed battalion these are impressed. But when I was on active duty in the 173rd Airborne Brigade at LZ English in 1970, there was some old NVA mortar gunner who could do this by instinct. I am not sure when he and his team would slip into their position, but he had to have laid his tube for deflection before sundown. He could have four rounds in the air and probably the piece broken down and the section moving out before the first round landed. They had some experimental model of the anti-mortar radar that got adopted later in the 1970s and that could see the rounds in the air and compute the firing point and they could fire back but it was always way too late. the old NVA mortar gunners were some of the best line-of-sight mortarmen in the world. Range estimation had to be by eye or by going out in peasant clothing during the day and pacing thing off. They would hit, come back three weeks later, go away for a few months, come back two night sin a row. English and North English and Uplift were all sort of roughly in a row and they all got hit. English was big enough that four rounds would always land within the perimeter. Uplift was smaller and one of three or four would be out. And they were never in a straight line, just a couple turns left or right deflection between rounds, but all four out in 20 seconds or less. In the cold evening air, you could hear the "boops" out in the distance. One time an alert duty NCO at the brigade TOC heard them and hit the switch for the alert siren about 10 seconds before the first round hit.
Money for that is coming. Like Germany also the Dutch army gets 6 biljoen more each year.
Imagine waking up ole Frederick William II and telling him the Germans in 2022 don't even have enough artillery too cover their own national defense
Wouldn't be the first time
Ww2 was horrible and will not be forgotten, but goddamnit germany, my nation, has to get over the shame and stand proud again!
@@magnagermania9311 Also we need to start to manufacture sophisticated weapons again. With Russia in massive decline there needs to be some counterforce against the USA.
Many democratic countries end up treating national defence as some sort of whimsical expenditure instead of taking it seriously.
How about the fact prussia is in russia and poland these days
I'm always happy to watch content here and see that the sub base has grown - it's simply one of a group of channels that I think deserve the recognition and support.
Very few content creators go to the trouble of laying out information so that even I can digest it (🤔probably the pictures) but it's also the depth and context that turn this channel into a dependable place to be informed and entertained.
Military History : Synchronised.
Many thanks 🍻 and to continued growth 👍
Man gotta love German engineering. I'm American own myself a BMW can only imagine the quality of these military weapons, equipment.
It's great to see Military History Visualized, Chris with Military Aviation History, Chieftain with the armour, and Perun with the military economics all pivoting to providing great information on this war!
Check out the channel War In Ukraine for updates on the frontline. Very informative! ruclips.net/channel/UCP2QApi8G2TKc8NZmeDWSUgfeatured
Justin Bronk on Ward Carrolls channel also very interesting
Greetings from Hungary!
There was one PzH 2000 sent to the Hungarian Defence Forces in January as a reference vehicle. Then it was sent back to Germany in February. The crew training still undergoing in Germany but the first SPHs are scheduled to arrive in late spring-early summer, although the exact date is not yet public. They are to be issued to the 101st Artillery Battalion, 25th György Klapka Infantry Brigade in Tata.
Good video. The conclusion is simple: faced with a superior Russian firepower the Ukrainian will use speed and mobility for local 'punch' The PzH will provide fast responce and/or counterbattery fire and the M777 will provide 'the brawn' Not a perfect thing , but a really workable thing. Hals und Beinbruch ! like they say.
However much the Russian army's sheer firepower _seems_ greater, as we keep seeing, it's just so poorly applied and inefficient in operation that Ukraine's military can do a lot more with a lot less.
Germany depends far to much on Russian Gas … But glad they have donated Self Propelled Artillery to Ukraine , Get them to Mariupol…
@@stuchambers297 To Mariupol? Why? What would they do there? The Ukrainians have explained they cannot break out whoever it is who is in there?
'..faced with a superior Russian firepower the Ukrainian will use speed and mobility for local 'punch' that is your conclusion but it was not in the vid. You will concede that 'punch' is not a strategy. Do you have any idea what these heavy weapons are going to do? I mean really, what are they for? I know they fire shells. What is the purpose of their deployment? No-one seems to have a clue and some people do not seem to even care. It's all very peculiar.
@@johnrichmond.4783 maybe you should read up on the use of artillery in modern doctrine then
From what I have seen, it seems likely to me that the Ukrainian forces are relatively connected into the NATO command and control networks. I think this would go a long way towards explaining how it is the Ukrainian Air Force can still function. Might also well explain what happened to the Moskva along with how things turned out for all those Russian generals.
Illustrates why Russia was not wanting NATO to expand East.
We can be 100% sure that NATO is feeding the Ukrainians everything they can. Added to that is every Babushka in the country is watching the Russians and reporting their movements. Putin has dug himself into a deep hole. The Americans are delivering arms to Ukraine right under Putin's nose. The reality is NATO is not far from war with Putin.
@@greggstrasser5791 But what makes it ironic is the fact that everything Russia has done to stop Ukraine from joining the western sphere of influence has only guaranteed exactly what they don't want. Russia is its own greatest enemy at this point.
shhhhh!
@@greggstrasser5791 Because NATO is expanding on its own, its not at all because the countries surrounding Russia seek protection within NATO from Russian imperialist ambitions under Dugins screwed up doctrines...
Yeah, its just NATO expansion, it doesnt matter you have to apply to join it.
Those things would be devastating for morale.
*One battery* of them can fire and a minute later 20+ shells will hit the enemy in a single salvo. And they are already back in motion before the enemy got their wits together.
In theory, of course.
To bad they will go against 40 Mista M2s that will fire 200+ shells back at them. In single salvo.
@@tomk3732 ok botski
@Tom K
In case they're still capable of firing, they won't fire back on them - they'll only fire back at the positions that was left before the first shells hit the Russians.
That's the whole point of The PzH2000: Hit and run tactics.
@@flowablesysadmin8068 Russians make drive-by BMP's.
Germany makes drive-by artillery.
😁
@@tomk3732 That could work. If they were not about 5-15km short in range 😆
No mater the modernisatins, a 1988 basis just is not going to cut it. Try something developed a bit closer to this century.
That aged fast, Italy are sending PZH 2000 as well, Germany is sending Gepard (though not clear whose paying for them) and Switzerland vetoed the German Gepard ammunition being transferred so Brazil is now providing the ammo for the Gepard.
Brazil? Really?!
@@angelisluna1318 Yes, 300,000 rounds. Its still in active service there.
@@watcherzero5256 Go Brazil... I was sceptical, but fair play to them
Fantastic video. I have never seen anything this good.
A friend of mine is in the mobile artillery.
They don't got enough to not steal from eachothers units... Let alone give them away
Because there are so many in storage.
Yet they claim they are in storage because they lack men to staff them due to like 8K vacancies.
These are the sacrifices that must be made for the Ukrainian people .
@@efrainrondon5753
Which Ukrainian people?
There are Ukrainians on both sides.
@@efrainrondon5753 if you say so
@@RobFeldkamp you know the Donbass region used to be part of Russia that was given to Ukraine and has long held aspirations to rejoin the motherland yes?
Panzerhaubitze is fun to pronounce, 👏 bravo Netherlands 🇳🇱 for sending a premiere platform
Na it's bad I hope the Ukrainian forces learn how to destroy it correctly because it would be a nightmare if any enmie would get the technologies of it
@@jankarl7896 What technology would that be? The Russians got datalinks too and they pioneered automated loading system and had them long befor the west.
Artillery wins ground wars. Learning new big guns and getting them into position is going to be very difficult.
Artillery is only effective when you have ground forces to occupy the territory you've just just blown back to the Stone Age
Not for a trained artilleryman & with the Ukrainians, their motivation is second to none, plus they've had 8 years of combat to hone their techniques.
Artillery is part of it. But they've been kicking ass at ambushes, most of the ambushes I've seen where multiple tanks are hit, the entire column retreats
Do you relly think that the Ukrainians never seen an artillery piece in their lives? Towed or SP? The Soviet doctrine was famous for being artillery heavy. They grow up on that stuff...
Yeah, infantry is the Queen of Battle, but artillery is the King of Battle (that's what the posters told me when I was in Basic). Nobody believes this as much as the Russians.
Regarding the Pz2000 driver needing time to be trained to repair, the way to get around that, is that you send one guy to learn how to drive in the EU, and another(s) to do maintenance, once they are in theater, they can help train each other. IF there is no room in the PZ2000, the extra guy(s) can ride with any infantry assigned to provide security/MANPAD support.
I remember reading about the Pzh 2000 about 20 years ago, in my Jane's Guide to Military Vehicles....it seemed like a very impressive modern self propelled howitzer compared with the older U.S. M-109 or Russian 2S3 which were still being used in the Middle East at the time. The Pzh was/is definitely on my list of SP Arty to buy if I ever need to raise my own personal army. But with the low production numbers and limited units available for export, it would be quite optimistic to ever hope obtaining one.
Very nice and informative article! Weapon itself is Mercedes of Artillery and I am glad Croatia got some. As for Ukraine right now, in addition to being high value target, another problem is how to provide enough fuel and especially ammunition over 1000km of exposed supply line. These beasts eat a truckload of shells in a minute if they get angry. And if I may add, each of these weapons have firepower of battalion consisting of 12 old 152/155 towed howitzers.
Glad to see that the Ferdinand got an upgrade after the war
Lol I was looking for this comment
Would you make a video about Schneider 1897 cannons in german service as Pak 97/38? This is a pretty interesting subject, it was used in quite big number as for foreign equipment, it also used HEAT shells. I even heard that polish anti tank ammo for Schneiders were used by the germans against soviet tanks. Anyways, it is definetely a forgotten weapon.
This would be interesting. I first became aware of this playing the Steel Division 2 campaign as Finland in the continuation war and was surprised to see French 75s in use as PaK 97/38. That said I’m not sure there is enough to really do an entire video on, and I think this or a similar topic has been covered in previous videos on Beutewaffen
He can't, they send them all to Ukraine.
It was used in Japan too during ww2
I know it from a Tank Commander from the start of 2000 when Panzerhaubitze 2000 was introduced.
The 5/6 Shoots simultaniuce Impact variation comes from the problem of the meaning of "Simulataniuce". The definition varies between 5 to 10 seconds and that by a shell flight time from 1 to 5 Minutes!!!
Your pronunciation of the german words was perfect!
I had the expectation that more European countries would send a small amount of these weapons
4 up to 8 seems a very low number to me. for all the logistics and training required to make it work properly.
but perhaps it is wise to see if the Ukrainians have some success with it, before dozens of these advanced weapons are sent
Oh they absolutely sending artillery here. Each country sends about a dozen, but thats a lot if you combine them all. Every gun uses NATO 155mm ammunition, so strain on logistics should not be to bad. Spare parts and trained mechanics would still be needed thought.
Doesn't matter how much more they could send. It's bottlenecked by logistics.
"if the Ukrainians have some success with it" - yes, they'll have success in prolonging the war and having even more of their people killed. It would be nice of the Russians if they just gave back Crimea to Ukraine on a silver platter, but that won't ever happen, no matter how much setbacks they'll suffer. And if the goal is to make Russia collapse, you wouldn't like seeing it happen, a desperate opponent who has nothing to lose is the most dangerous opponent imaginable.
The issue is most European countries especially the western ones don't have many artillery pieces themselves, Britain has about 96 itself for example. So none of them can really afford to send a huge shipment to Ukraine without weakening their own ability.
Training seems to start for Ukrainians, so once they know how to operate them, further shipments will be useful. I really hope German manufacturers ramp up production "just for the case". The offered 100 PzH 2000 within 2 years is more a long-term perspective.
11:38 Ammunition may not be that necessary since the 155mm is Nato standard, and the US was going to send a big stockpile along the m777s.
germany want send 40000 Rounds
Because of the fact that Germany is on the same continent, is much easier for them to transport the ammo but who cares if they are interchangeable this is even more great news!!
More ammo -> more better!
such an interesting video... amazing work guys
Ahh yes the fearsome Regenwurmzerstörer 2000
the name seem to have a history. mind to share?
@@Nonsense010688 Iam not one hundred percent sure what the real origin is but it's an insider joke/term for this particular Haubitze in the Bundeswehr
@@マキ-i1n Like Jordfräs 39 DyrGripen then
I controlled the Phz2000 a couple of times. The Dutch and the German ones.
Their multiple rounds simultaneous impacts... they could never do because of many reasons (excuses).
Their systems get a lot of down time. But when they are up, they are pretty fast to respond.
I am wondering however which C2 system they are gonna use. The Dutch ELIAS/AFSIS or the German ADLER III.
I think that they'll use the Dutch system, because they are of Dutch origin. Switching would be a hassle if nothing else, unless Germany also sends some of its PzH 2000s
F4 und der Tag gehört dir.
The simultaneous impact trick is easy, you just have to start the software, but multiple rounds also need a larger distance as target wich the most shooting ranges did not provide. There have been some PZH2k in Afghanistan and their they German army had enaugh space to test it out.
they will use neither, they will use the Ukrainian C&C system of some guy on a radio calling coordinates oh a grid
@@Rick2010100 For an easy trick they were never be able to do it for me. If it's only suitable within a couple of perfect ranges it's a gimmick.
Very thoughtful and full of information. Thank you for sharing.
Excellent discussion, and you brought up the two most important considerations that had occurred to me: Complexity of the weapons system, and its sheer weight.
I, too, have studied the Eastern Front in WWII 🙂, and the consequences of Hitler’s obsession with SPGs.
The Panzerhaubitz sounds like a great weapons system, but there isn’t enough time to train Ukrainian troops in its use.
The lighter weight and relatively easy transportation of the “triple 7s” make it the right choice for the open fields of Ukraine 🇺🇦, well worth the sacrifice of sheer firepower that the Panzerhaubitz has to its advantage.
After all … have you ever seen even the fastest armored vehicles move at anywhere near the speed at which even a heavily-laden “Jolly Green Giant” can get around? 🙂 And helicopters don’t need roads or even open fields to get the big bangers where they need to be 🙂!
Again, thanks for an excellent presentation!
🇺🇦🌻 Cnaba Ykpaïhi 🌻🇺🇦!
PzH2000 Low number of people needed to train and training is in weeks. In think it's not that bad.
Movement by helicopters is a) only possible if you have any, b) not useful at all in an artillery duel and c) only practical if your opponent can't send fighters to shoot your helicopters down.
I'm not sure about a) in case of the Ukraine. How many transport helicopters do they have and how many are left? I'm pretty sure they aren't trained to move artillery pieces with it, that would have to be learned first.
b) is rather obvious: you want the first few hundred meters to be fast if you have to avoid counter artillery fire, you don't particularly care about the speed of the entire journey. A helicopter is the worst choice for that, even a simple tractor is preferable. Waaaay less time to set up, even if slower over long distances.
c) I have no clue about, neither side seems to use aircraft to high effect. Still, a swarm of transport helicopters to move a battery isn't exactly inconspicuous and Ukrainian forces seem to rely on ambushes quite a lot. At a guess they would prefer to tow they triple 7s even if they have crews trained for movement by air.
@@autohmae I hope you are right about there being enough time for the training, but that’s the real concern - going into Summer, things may start to move very quickly.
So far, it hasn’t been the Russian pattern to take advantage of their mobility in ideal tank-country, but I fear their approach may change once they’ve got at least some of their equipment repaired and re-supplied.
Several weeks is a long time if “Ivan” decides to make a real move. Have to hope Team Zelenskyy 🇺🇦😁can hold present positions long enough for the training to be accomplished!
@@michaelkensbock661 Very good points all around, and unfortunately we are operating in an information “fog” about many of the underlying conditions.
Not sure what the order-of-battle looks like on the Ukrainian side, especially after 2+ months of war. IF Ukraine had heavy-lift choppers to begin with, they are most-likely intact if they weren’t on the ground around Kyiv or Kharkyiv, because Team Zelenskyy 🇺🇦😁 have not been able to go on the offensive (yet), not in a big way, and so haven’t had call to bring out their choppers, if any.
And I should have been more explicit about the role in which I’d employ choppers to move arty - you are quite right that it’s a no-go under actual firefight conditions. What I was looking at is that we’ve got a very long battle-front (400+ miles?), but Ukraine is on the inside of the overall “crescent”, with great interior-lines. What I was envisioning was the need to move a battery or batteries quickly once a particular stretch of front is relatively secured.
It *is* curious, though, that there simply hasn’t been much use of air-power on either side. Of course, a whole lot of extremely-angry and motivated Ukranians with Stinger missiles may have something to do with that, at least from the Russian point of view 😎.
On a happy note: You mention being able to move the Triple-7s around with tractors 😁 - oh, does Ukraine have tractors 😆! Most of Ukraine is beautiful farmland like the Great Plains here in the U.S., so they have a veritable “second army” of heavy farm-equipment to tow the guns around 😁!
It’s cracked me up all along to see farmers firing up their tractors to go out and remove the Russian Trash 🤣 from the highways and byways (burned-out tanks, etc.)!
The best part was when one of President Zelenskyy’s boys, probably the minister of finance or something, put out a press-release that taxes would not be assessed against anyone who “harvested” Russian “scrap-metal” 😎 (not on the scrap, at least).
The IRS here in the U.S. probably *would* assess taxes on salvage 😋😎 - yet another reason to shout Cnaba Ykpaïhi 😆🇺🇦🌻!
Main question will be if there is enough ammunition for it to be effective. But I agree, using it for high value targets only makes a lot of sense.
germany has endless ammunition for it. its our system and we have over 120 of that unbeliavable weappons. So germany could deliver the ammuntion to ukraine. Its actaully A SHAME that we didnt ALLREADY send 50 panzerhaubitzen 2000 to ukriane. this is the most effective of all heavy weappons for ukraine. With this stuff, the ukraine fighters could shreder the russian convoys in such a long range, that nothing the russians have could shot back. by the way, he is wrong, the range is much longer than 30 or 40 kilometer. We have ammunition now, which increases the range to 65 kilometer. in comprenhension to the V2 this REALLY is a wonderweappon ;-)
I took a look at the equipment being sent to Ukraine from various nations, and the US at least is sending on the order of 1000 round for each gun sent.
Deutschland stellt 40000 Schuß zur Verfügung
@@mariojakel5544 wofür? für die panzerhaubitze? wäre sowieso egal, die kann klassiscche 155 mm Natogranaten verschießen. Die hat jedes land. damit kann man auch die Granaten verschießen, die ide Amerikaner für ihre 80 155 Haubitzen dazu geschickt haben und das sind mehrere hundert tausend stück
I'm from the UK and it's a lot of fun to hear a German accent describe military stuff. How you say Panzerhaubitzer 2000 cracks me up. I didn't comment just to insult you, I enjoyed this video, thank you. UK-DE-NATO
that's the name... how else should you pronounce it? it's german and doesn't make any sense to pronounce it in english or japanese
Very informative video!!!
It's crazy how much it looks like a Nashorn when in driving position like at 5:22
I always found this vehicle looking similar to the Maus. Great video
With italian Vulcano 155 Guided Long Range (GLR), which is precision-guided munition (PGM), PzH could hit targets in 80km distance. Vulcano is already certified for PzH 2000. Excalibur could used be also, but reaches only 50km. Also, there were some imcompatibilities experienced with the loading system in early tests. But these should have been resolved by now.
Great for Ukraine would also be SMArt 155, which is dedicated anti-tank ammunition.
A shell contains two submunitions which deploy parachutes over the target area and use radar and infrared to scan for targets.
If they detect a target within a radius of 150 meters they fire an explosively formed projectile at it.
@@HingerlAlois at this point I was at first sure u are trolling. Than I thought about it and came to the conclusion that this is technically possible today. Crazy times we live in.
@@SpiDey1500
It’s not even very new, SMArt 155 entered service with the German military in 2000.
Vulcano is German-Italian ammunition, the aim was to develop a 127mm cartridge for the navy, 155mm is further development of the 127mm.
Thank you for the info. It has been enlightening.
You should do a video on the CAESAR too. It would be nice to talk about wheeled self-propelled howitzers.
I agree, it could have been interesting to compare the potential strengths and uses of both systems which are quite complementary. France will be sending a dozen Caesar to Ukraine, and the Ukrainiens crews are currently being trained in France. Both guns have fairly similar performance in terms of range, accuracy, ammunition types and round/min but of course the carrying platform is completely different. The Pz2000 is tracked and armored but very heavy; the Caesar is wheeled but much less armored, carries less rounds but is much lighter (it can be transported by a C130 or a A400M). Both are ideal for counter battery but they would probably not be used in the same environment. It should be an interesting (although sad) experience to see their use and performance in this battlefield.
@@VoltaireVoltaire-zq4zh In Ukraine, fuel economy might truly be king.
You always do a great job in your research and videos.
The point at the end about how the Panzerhautbitze could be propagandized as resembling the Elephant or the Hummel is particularly insightful. As a dirty American, I can only make these claims as someone who played the Company of Heroes franchise extensively, but nothing aroused me quite as emotionally (as a primarily USA player) as seeing an Elephant on the field. It was always a primary target for me, emotionally, regardless of the tactical advantage posed by the enemy. Great call to point this out.
"dirty American" ?
@@merc88 Yeah, sounds like a self hater.
Dirty American is a common term to use by many European countries. It's been used sometime in the UK especially because they consider Americans uncultured. And hence the nickname dirty americans. The author of this statement is simply acknowledging that he doesn't know everything about European weapons, and he's doing that in a poetic manner. Hence the term, dirty american.
@@dankuchar6821 Your assessment is correct. I do not hate myself or America. I simply added that line as a way of saying "Here are my two cents on the matter as someone who doesn't have much direct experience with the topic". A little playful humility.
@@dankuchar6821 There are many common stereotypes in use all over the world that are insulting and degrading. Just because it's in common use doesn't elevate or justify it it in any way. It's ironic and amusing that such a term would be in common use in the UK, the land of scousers, fish and chips, and bad teeth. Such culture. As long as we're trading in stereotypes, let's even things up. It's more like self-denigrating humiliation then self-deprecating humility.
I love your accent just for the fact that you say "Neverland" when you try to say "Netherlands". Its great.
It's very unlikely that the hungarian Pzh 2000 batch is going to be rerouted, because partially these vehicles are part of the hungarian armed forces upgrade in order to match the desired combat capabilities as NATO member, and even if there is a possibility to offer these, the hungarian government is heavily against donating even light weapons to Ukraine from it's own stock.
(HU armed forces are in the middle of replacing the old AK-AMD based assault rifles with CZ Bren 2 models. It totally would make sense to donate these older weapons though.)
If there's will by Germany, there's not really a lot Hungary could. "Oh, sorry, we're facing some issues. Your delivery will be late." it's not that Hungary it currently helping in way that they could threat to stop the support. Orban already doesn't allow weapons Transports through their territory.
Yeah, I think so as well, what I find odd that nobody mentioned them in any way. I stumbled on that information by accident.
@@flowablesysadmin8068 Time will tell.
What makes it complicated is that it's a big contract. Not just Pzh 2000s, but tanks(Leo 2), and IFVs as well. It's basically the complete rearming of the Hungarian Army. Lock, stock and barrell.
@@MilitaryHistoryVisualized hier eine Meldung vom 21.12.2021 - Украина получит лучшие в мире немецкие самоходные гаубицы Panzerhaubitze 2000 ,
It's about a contract for 100 PzH 2000 for 1.7 billion euros including training, delivery of spare parts with Kraus Maffei, which was closed last year but there was no war at that time. The first brand new 30 self-propelled howitzers should be delivered in the first quarter of 2024.
As always, excellent work. Thank you.
In typical German style, a precise piece of high quality machinery!!!
Also a rather complicated one.
With enough numbers to last a full week of combat
Amazing details! I love this channel
The Hungarian pzh2000s will most likely be delivered in early summer, the first prototype was made in January.
@Patrick H Hungary ordered them and paid for them. They are going to have some unique features as well.
@Patrick H maybe that Urban the douchebag will give one or two to the russians as their ally
@Patrick H
Contracts and payments make it Hungarian. Will the Hungarians wait for the next batch if this will be 'redirected' is a different question.
weren't them russians out of ammo and missiles since the end of February? kinda wonder where they replenish their stocks from... 🤔
@Patrick H
So how it looks in reality:
The government of Hungary signed a contract with the German manufacturer Krauss-Maffel Wegmann in december 2018 for the following items:
-44 Leopard 2A7 MBT
-12 Leopard 2A4 training vehicle
-24 PzH2000 SP howitzer
-200 Puma IFV
-Various armored recovery and bridge laying vehicles.
Now that looks like a contract you don't mess around.
They signed a contract with also German Rheinmetall in 2019 for the purchase of
-218 Lynx KF41 IFV, 172 of them to be built in Hungary in a factory built with Rheinmetall.
-complete heavy ammunition manufacturing capability built with Rheinmetall.
And that's just on the ground
So I guess Hungary is pretty serious about this little spending spree...
Top tier channel.
How long does it take from firing a shell until impact, over a distance of 40 km?
Edit: I mean airtime…
roughly 1-2 minutes depending on everything from wind strength and direction in different layers to powder temperature and, of course, type of shell.
For 40 km it will be more around 3-4 minutes..
This was highly informative.
Another self propelled gun that comes to mind that does MRSI: The Swedish "Archer".
I think it can do 5 simultaneous impacts if I remember correctly.
I think it can do 6 like the Panzerhaubitze. Alas, the Archer is wheel driven, which is a bad decision in my book.
@@ssm445 You'd think so.
But Swedish engineers are well versed in the difficulties of rough and snow covered terrain. They could've made a tracked vehicle but opted not to.
@@sevenproxies4255 That's out of question. Still, it is bound to roads and hard/frozen terrain, which may be good for Sweden, but is likely to fail in muddy terrain (non-frozen) like Ukraine. Also, Ukraine specifically asked for armoured vehicles.
this is the way.
6×6wheel drive on a hydraulically actuated chassi that is a modification on a very common civilian heavy duty vehicle and thus can source spare parts for the drive train very easily.
On top of that, all the wheels have a core filler that can carry a load even if punctured and while intact can have the tyre preassure adjusted from within the armored crew cab.
This combination of features allows it to wade through mud and snow as long as it's wheels can keep the chassi from getting stuck and to climb any blocky terrain with less than 1m³ sized boulders, which is more than any tracked vehicle can deal with.
Hell of a bit of kit ...very advanced
Honestly there should be more then enough modernized variants of the M109 around in storage to satisfies the current needs of Ukraine. Same goes for the towed M198 and other NATO counterparts.
As the video mentioned, the M198 is quite heavy and its lack of mobility exposes it to counterbattery fire. The M109, meanwhile, is old, slow-firing, and its range is hampered by the short barrel. We've tried to replace it twice, you know.
@@concinnus You still need a hauler to tow both of them regardless also M198 won't any different from other towed artillery currently employed by the Ukraine.
@@Kharmazov There are a lot more vehicles (e.g. Mi-17) that can transport 10K pounds than 16K, which is the whole reason we went to such trouble to lighten it. Certain bridges and terrain may also be able to handle the M777 and not the M198. You're right that the M198 is closer to what they have, but there's obvious value to having better artillery than the Russians.
@@concinnus You're still thinking about M777 being attached to a light infantry rather then a regular mechanized force no to mention Ukraine doesn't currently have nowhere near the air lift capacity the US enjoys ergo it not being a major issue. And at this point any modern functioning artillery will be greeted with opened hands, especially as the 152mm calibre ammo is slowly running out.
Another nice feature of this channel is the technical and political details are explained from different points of view. Things are compared and contrasted. So when the nightly news broadcast gets it completely wrong, biased towards one side, and makes it seem like Ukraine will be firing these things tomorrow, I can see through the shenanigans and get a clearer picture.
The PzH would have to be deployed with massive anti air protection though.
First of all: The fight in the east isn't as "easy" as in Kyiv, because Russia can and does fly air sorties there. Which means the PzH doesn't only have to worry to be a HVT for ground forces and artillery but also the Russian air force and drones.
So Ukraine is probably going to deploy it in such a way that it's best protected and as far away from enemy positions as possible while still hitting them.
Also the maximum range of it is correct, however you cannot use multiple round simultaneous impact at maximum distance, because physics. The maximum range is achieved with a ~45° angle.
I just replied about these things being a liability, much like migs would be. Costly to operate and maintain and a lack of precision. When firing on your own land you don’t want to scorch the earth. Russia is fine doing that with howitzers in Ukraine already. Long range sam combine with drones, man portable guided anti armour and aircraft for short to medium range.
Unrelated, but I love how you say "kilo-meter" instead of running it together into "kilometer" like most English speakers, sounds so much cleaner on the ear.
I get their desire to not diminish operational readiness, but the operational readiness of the German armed forces was deemed so completely unsatisfactory as to require a policy shift and newfound commitment in the budget. It’s not like they’re preserving an already credible defense by holding back some artillery pieces. They will do far more to protect Germany’s interests if they are placed in the hands of Ukrainian artillerymen with all speed.
Yes and no... For one, you may have to consider the difference between what Germany is keeping in reserve and what it has committed to NATO reaction forces. Quality and readiness differ greatly between units. Secondly, according to the latest ministry report, the situation is not quite as drastic as some media headlines make it out to be -- specifically, there are certain systems that are in dire need of fixing (the army's helicopter fleet in particular was singled out as problematic), but you are essentially saying that Germany should give away one of its best systems that still is in perfect condition. That's a political landmine *if* the situation should escalate and NATO expected to mobilize further.
News about the low readiness of German military material are highly misleading. International commenters don't know and don't take into account what silly high standards for what they consider "combat ready" the Germans have.
They will have a list that determines in what integrals each little spare part of a vehicle has to be checked and maintained and if any of those are over due, they ground the whole vehicle as "not combat ready" until every part has been checked.
For example, they have a fighter jet and there is a little temperature sensor somewhere deep in the bowels of the machine and their maintenance list says it needs to be taken out and checked every 100 flight hours or so and because they currently don't have the man power to take apart the whole plane to check that little thing, the jet gets grounded and listed as "out of order" until they got around to doing the job.
So you have tons of vehicles and equipment that is totally fine and would be considered pristine and ready in most other armies, being considered and listed as out of business by German bureaucracy.
Being overly cautious with maintenance lists and stamps and qualification levels of equipment is one thing, but giving away that stuff as if it were broken, just because it is on a "to do" list, is something else.
Yes, there are issues with under-funding and readiness levels in the German military, but the news being reported, even by the German press, tend to be highly exaggerated and misleading.
Also, what are we preserving operational readiness for?
Are we under threat from a neighbouring country? No.
Do we plan on sending our troops to aid Ukraine? Again. No.
This whole idea of preserving operational readiness is like someone refusing their neighbour, whose house is burning, a fire extinguisher out of fear the fire may spread to their house which it will if the neighbour is unable to put the fire out.
In this case, it’s more like, hanging onto a fire extinguisher in case the fire spreads to someone else’s house, from someone else’s house.
Either way, it’s needed to help put out a fire that’s raging in Eastern Europe, not Central Europe. And while yes, some might object to Germany diluting their commitment to NATO mobilization. This has, after all, been a running theme. But I suspect that only Hungary is likely to object IF the reason the Bundeswehr is light on artillery is because they sent more than just a single battery to Ukraine.
I would be inclined to agree with all your arguments, under different circumstances. However, there is a real opportunity here, that few expected on day one of the war, to actually stop Putin in eastern Ukraine. That has changed the calculations, and NATO members are realizing that. Just not all at the same pace.
I appreciate all you do!
Every general in the world would be estatic if they had you under their wing!
keep up the good work MHV! 💯
Thanks Cristophe. Not withstanding Germany's situation with limited numbers of the P2000, I think it's widely acknowledged that Scholtz's support for Ukraine has been woeful, as you have rightfully acknowledged. Modern military equipment for Ukraine would be ideal, but given the Ukrainian superior training and strategy, now that they have been given artillery from partners that can outrange the Russians, all they seem to be lacking is enough long range air defence (S300's) and air support. It's great that Germany sent the Gepard, but Ukraine already has an abundance of short range air defence systems both indigenous and from partners. The provision of outdated Gepard's by Scholtz from storage was nothing more than a superficial political move of appeasement for the international community.
It probly is a political move, but you could potentionally use the gepard as a weapon against infantarie
@@prpr8904 there exist Airburst and AP ammo for the Gepard.
The AP shreds BMPs of all kinds
I love your content. RUclips doesn't deserve you
I never realized how little equipment the Bundeswehr actually has.
Neither does the German people, most European militaries are hilariously underfunded and worryingly under-appreciated…odd considering how they lived next to the biggest threat in human history (well until China’s rise)
@@ShomiTheGreat Production capacity is that bad, because we forced German weapon manufacturers to run financally efficient while facing our super low order numbers, for the most part (export restrictions also have an effect). This situation got worse slowly over time. Cost per unit went up like crazy, production time per unit got even longer. Germany accepted these changes, due to us living in pretty peace times and due to money saving measures. Our new green-agenda hasn't even hit this area yet.
They don't need, the clowns in NATO protect them when they are the greatest weapon sellers in Europe, ironic ? lol.
Peace dividend
Well, that is the sole and only problem we have. WTF?
And lets just ignore that Germany is the 4th highest ranking heavy-war-weapons exporter in the world, for Rifles 10% and Pistols/Revolvers 20% (2017-2020).
The Bundeswehr gets what is needed and what is provided by the democratic elected government. Someone is not okay with that? Move to Russia!
In terms of defense spending in relation to gross domestic product, Germany (2021) is in the upper midfield at 1.3%. This changed a lot in 2022. For comparison, the US with its nuclear weapons and bells and whistles 3.5%, Russia 4.1% and Saudi Arabia 6.6%.
My personal opinion is that I hope never to get into a combat situation with you clowns because you seem to have a problem with reality. Something like that might not matter on RUclips, but it's guaranteed to be deadly in combat or in action:P Jetzt, WEITERMACHEN ihr trauriges Geschleich!
The symbolism here is quite amazing. With the Russians taking the place of the Wehrmacht, Ukraine the SU, and the Elephant, just being the oddball, but striking, reference (nice one, Military History Visualized!),
Are there no longer any modern 105mm systems in service? Of course, both 152-155mm and 105mm have their obvious advantages and disadvantages (range + destructiveness vs. ammo storage + ROF), but what prompted the change from 105 mm to only 155 mm? As such, I think the Leopard 1 could still offer some good service as a self-propelled direct-fire artillery piece?
US IBCTs have 2x105 batteries and 1x155 battery. In all deference to the video, those 155 Howitzers are M777.
@@Welterino
During the Cold War there was also still heavier artillery, the M110 had 203mm.
@@Welterino That's correct. But the German (and US) standard medium piece was the 105 mm - both towed and self-propelled (StuH 42 and various other chassis'). The British used the smaller 25 pdr (88 mm?). The Soviets seemed to have used a wide variety of sizes, from 76mm to 152 mm.
An often overlooked side of the Polish campaign was the disparity of the artillery (105 mm vs. Polish 75 mm), which actually was as significant as Luftwaffe and the mechanized units in the victory.
Blackhawks can transport 105mm howitzers. Its also far easier to airdrop 105mm howitzers from a c-17 then a m777 155m gun. Humvess can town a 105m gun while it takes an LMTV truck to tow a 155m gun.
UK uses the 105mm L118 light gun, with around 120-130 in service.
I you used to be a gunner on one of these beauty’s. The shoot and scoot capability of these things is no small thing. I have done a couple of large scale exercises involving counter battery (enemy artillery aiming for your firering position). And it is great fun to see a exercise referee standing ready to “kill” everyone in the splash zone. As soon as he gets the call from the radio that the counter battery has fired. Only to be the last person being there because the guns have already left for the next shooting position. One thing I like to add. Training for the crew’s can be done in 4-6 weeks. But training for the commander will take longer.
We talking 4-6 weeks for newbies, or seasoned, motivated artillerymen on soviet models of arty (Ukrainians)?
Because people throw around 4-6 weeks without ever mentioning the previous skills of the soldiers you train + wartime motivation + wartime process streamlining/ expediency. Like, can somebody explain how is that not crucial info?
@@elektrotehnik94 it al depends. Ofcourse there are parts that can be expedited but not much. It is a very complex machine a large part of the training is learning the names and functions and operations of every part. Than there are the drills. They have to be trained. A human mind can only learn so much in so little time before it wont go in long term memory. Than there is the language barrier. Then there is the question how much freedom the soldier gets from the crew commander. For instance Dutch crew train to start doing there part of the machine inmidiatly after the call for fire is out. While the German way is more top down. Crew commander tells every man which button to press. There are pros and cons to each way. Crew training can be shortened the German way, but it takes more time to train a crew commander. Than there is the issue of the driver. He gets a completely different training. And after all that if you are certified you still need to learn allot of things you only learn on the job. It will definitely be a big plus for a new crew to be former military and even better former artillery man. But there is only so much one can take from another system to this one.
TLDR: 4-6 weeks is a guesstimate. And it al depends on what you mean bij being trained/operational really.
Guessing these beat the hell out of 2S19.
Top video.. good Information as always
The m777 is a top of the line towed artillery piece, relatively new, and definitely in active service with both the Marine Corps and the Army. Just to make sure that’s clear.
That is true, but it is also a towed gun, which means it is incredibly vulnerable to counter-battery fire, both because it takes longer to displace after firing (you can comfortably double or triple the numbers that were given for M777 emplacement/displacement times; the given times are for laboratory perfect conditions), and the simple lack of shrapnel protection for the crew, ammunition, and delicate machinery/electronics.
Towed howitzers are best used in places where enemy artillery is sharply lacking, either because they don't have any (COIN), because they can't get their artillery onto the battlefield (Marines & Mountain troops), or because you attacked them where they weren't prepared (Airborne/-mobile forces).
Ukraine is getting superior first strike real time intelligence from the USA
Any good force has primarily towed artillery, supplemented by heavier, more expensive, more supply intensive, more difficult to maintain, but ostensibly more mobile, SP guns.
Either way, the m777 takes about 1-2m to break down and get moving by a well trained crew. The fastest Russian counter battery we are seeing is taking just over 4, but usually much longer. Long gone.
@@boosterh1113 The US Army doctrine for 155s is more use as a counter battery fire element. Russia uses its maneuver elements to fix enemy formations to be destroyed by artillery. US (and by extension NATO) uses maneuver units as the primary attack elements. Artillery is about area denial, counterbattery, and battlespace shaping. In the case of the M777s, they are (normally) in battalions mixed with M119s which are 105mm guns. General practice is to use the 105s wherever possible while the longer range 155s are over watch. The line item that gets skipped in the US shipments to Ukraine is that the US is sending a number of AN/TPQ-53 counter battery radars. This makes sense as these new artillery pieces will not give Ukraine the advantage. It appears to me as an attempt to improve Ukraine's counter battery capability.
Towed systems are slow to get in and out of action, and Russia has shown it has a really capable counter battery ability.
Fired the 155mm in vietnam great cannon , self propelled every fire suport base had at least 3 and LZ action had 175 mm long tom plus 8" howlitzer . the 175 mm took about 15 min . to load H E. 4th div.
The war in Ukraine is providing very stark examples of how modern combat effectiveness is reliant upon factors such as maintenance, training, communications, and logistics, as opposed to traditional military metrics like raw troop numbers or shell calibre. It doesn't matter if you have more guns that can fire bigger shells a longer distance, if a) the gun is broken, b) you don't have any shells and c) you don't know where you are or what direction you should be firing.
If the German Army says gunners can be trained on this system in six weeks, then I'm impressed. What concerns me is this system seems very reliant on being able to receive and process accurate (and encoded) targeting data. Presumably NATO has a coordinated system that compiles data on potential targets from a variety of sources (drones, direct observation, satellites, aircraft). Then passes that data through a command structure, which then relays a fire mission the artillery unit. In order for such a system to work you have to have extremely accurate and reliable information systems. You have to have high confidence in your knowledge of a) where the target is; b) what the target is; c) the location of any potential friendly units in the vicinity of that target; and d) the location of the artillery unit and its ability to get to a projected firing area. And then you've got to hope that the gunners have the right mix of ammunition on hand to complete the mission as directed.
That's a lot of variables. I the Ukrainians have the capabilities to take advantage of this weapon.
The importance of information systems also means maybe cyberattacks can be very effective ?
At the end of the day, the data link of an artillery sysrem is just a tool of convenience that speeds up the process from spotting to shells in the air.
Every byte of data can be relayed by voice radio or even morse code telegraphy and either manually fed into the ballistics calculator of the firing unit, or even calculated by hand using ballistics charts and physical plotting discs/tables and then used to manually traverse and elevate the guns to the correct position.
It'll take 10-20times longer to process, so any advanced firemissions will need a longer lead time, and some of the more advanced munitions that require electronic shell programming from the ballistics computer will be unavaliable, but otherwise, it'd be buisness as usual.
@@autohmae Russia's ECM is non existent. They don't even have their own encrypted capabilities.
As always I've learned a great deal from watching your channel. Thank you.
The Gepard-deal looks weird from every angle:
1) it takes a lot of training
2) Germany had only enough ammunition for a minute of combat and it seems to be very hard to come by
3) Germany has shelved them apparently before their successor was fully developed
4) the stop gap seems to be under 100 pieces
Brazil has stated they are willing to provide the ammunition for the Gepards.
This entire conflict is weird af. It has no military or local economy character at all.
It is basically a shift of global economic order from USA to China, and it's manifesting itself through USA draining the EU economy and modern weapon stockpiles, and Russia draining its obsolete weaponry stockpiles under economic sanctions.
It's basically China vs USA --- manifesting itself through Russia and EU going poor.
Lockheed Martin makes ammunition suitable for the Gepard… (They are the US license holder for the gun).
Imho these specific requests for german armor is also a political move (if not primarily so) to keep the pressure on the chancellor to agree & to soften general resistance to such support.
Now is generally a good time to get Ukraine off the old Soviet stuff and move to more modern systems. Now that Kyiv appears to be safe, NATO should be using it’s training facilities to train both new Ukrainian crewmen and training experienced crews on newer systems. We should begin getting ready replacements for many big ticket items such as F-16s, Patriot, new MBTs, and new SPGs. Getting Ukraine trained on these systems will put even more pressure on Putin to conclude the war(since he likely doesn’t want his forces to fast modern western equipment) and even if the war ends before the systems can be put into Ukrainian service, they will be good for deterring Russia from returning to Ukraine.
Do you have a surplus storage full of those or where will you get them from? At least in europe most countries have none of the modern systems to spare. And current production is a trickle at best.
@@yves2932 I am not saying it will happen overnight or even in a few months. Of course, it will take time to get production lines warmed up and running or time to refurbish surplus stock. There is a good chance it might not even arrive before the war’s conclusion. But what I am saying is that the process should get started sooner than later.
7:24 it does however reduce the maximum range you can fire at to that of the highest arcing shell
Most probably Ukrainian side will allocate PzH2000 to dedicated teams with battlefield integration capability for effective counterbattery and high value target strikes. Ukraine's Armed Forces have demonstrated capability of combining live areal recon (UAVs) with ranged weapons support (artillery strikes). PzH2000 would provide Ukrainian army with enhanced capability and experience, that may encourage further deliveries of advanced weapons to Ukraine.
Don’t know about anyone else but when he said panzer it sent a shiver down the spine………
This is very much a defensive unit considering the range. Fully capable of adaptive reaction measures according to specific tactics in multiple situations, and fast enough to act, react, move, mislead, then disappear before a counter attack. The worst thing, is that it's very large, but also being large capable of tracking through grounds that tanks could get stuck, I'm not sure if he mentioned that, but this giant can travel over grounds that would sink Russian tanks. It also uses a very common round, meaning it should be available under the worst of logistic issues...it is a very large target tho, so whoever is manning it, is a very brave, and determined soul indeed imo. oh, one other cool thing, it can easily be used to hide many troops on escort into front line areas, inside and out, that may be important. I have no doubt the Ukrainians can adjust their skillset to use these vehicles efficiently.
if they use the right shells and assign sufficient numbers of anti-air defences to thee units, the pzh2000 can work from a safe distance without too many worries. russians only have old rocket artillery which isn't very accurate at the same distances. it's still just a few vehicles, so the impact is likely to be very limited, and they might have problems with the weight of the vehicle.
Armored artillery isn’t for defense dude, please stop talking Mr 4 star general
I have heared another nice name of artilery: Stepmother of all victories / Stiefmutter aller Siege / Macocha wszystkich zwycięstw.
Considering the small area of current Russian advances, the high volume of Russian tanks (assuming they dont get hit by A-T weapons) , I wonder how many of these will be sent into the thick of eastern and southern Ukraine. Moving them by rail is the only way due to their weight and slow speed (plus fuel demand). WE can assume the missing P2000 are currently being fitted with reactive armour to minimise their losses where possible, while Ukrainian artillery troops are being pulled into training (or reserves). The Russians have not felt alot of artillery and it will slow them down but unless they mass in big numbers, I'm not sure what a small number can do apart from offer a city protection as Russians get near. The towed guns like the A-T weapons allow fire and move options with the russians slow to respond. However the Ukrainians are benefiting from NATO level aerial intelligence to locate large moving targets. They might be used to slow any advance on the prized Odessa port and connecting to Moldova and the Russian troops resupply. Hitting forward Russian bases within Donbas/Crimea and newly held territory might do alot of damage when the Russians have until now, little to fear inside their "borders" apart from the odd drone strike or anti ship missile
Thanks for the informative and useful video about the current Ukraine situation.
Powerful tool. I think what is very important is the first hit probabilty. Seems to be good in that department. With 5-6 Shots, could you sink or seriously damage a big warship in the harbor or on anchor within reach?
A small Russian ship was sunk by a Grad barrage, so it's not impossible.
@@p_serdiuk If you're talking about Ukraine's early claim of sinking a ship involved in the Snake Island takeover, that turned out to be mistaken.
The ship would generally stay out of missile range after the Moskva sinking, which would put it way beyond artillery range. It would also be near impossible to hit it at the waterline (artillery has ~50m inaccuracy with unguided shells). But the Moskva was sunk apparently by the Neptunes hitting the Moskva's ballistic missiles on its deck, so maybe the waterline isn't important. Also, Canada has sent some guided Excalibur shells.
@@concinnus No, it was before the Moskva sinking.
@@p_serdiuk I know. Their early claim about sinking a ship with Grads was tied to a ship that was on fire, but it turned out that was an unrelated civilian ship probably hit by the Russians.
I wonder will Germany attempt to purchase some of those stored guns from Holland? for itself and to further train/ reinstate its own capabilitys? (BTW your "sound" for me at least, is much better! the echo effect is much reduced. Well done on another well-reserched presentation)
Jeez... At 55.8 metric tons, it would be just 7 metric tons short of a Leopard 2 wouldn't it?
It's almost a main battle tank.
engine based of Leo1 Engine, chassis sharing components with the Leo2 - so it's like a "Leo Version 1,5 SPH"
Actually, the engine is not from either Leopard. It's the MTU 881, a 8-cylinder version of the 883 developped as an upgrade for Leopard 2 but never put in service in the Bundeswehr...yet.
@@elanvital9720 The MTU 881 is a derivat of the MB838 of the Leo 1
@@torstenbrandt5628 It's not, it's an entirely new generation. The MB 838 is part of the late 50's generation comprising the MB 837 and MB 833.
Then we got the Leopard 2's MB 873 in the 70s (development started in 65), with the 10-cylinder MB 872 and the 8-cylinder 871 (used in the Korean K1)
The MB 881 is part of the 3rd generation developped in the late 70s and 80s with the 883 and others.
The 4th generation MB 890 series was fielded in the 2000s on the Puma IFV.
The manufacturer and legacy are the same, but the design of each generation was very different.
former FDC and Gunner of the PzH2000, i may missed it, but the largest advantage of the PzH2000 is, that every 'Automated' failure can be done by hand, Loading is not working? do it with your hand, Communication is broken? Tipe it into the calculating computer, etc. Germany is nowhere near a solid Artillery force most PzH2000 are in service since 98-00 so they become largly more complicates to maintain, because the Artillery is one of Brachnes that gets less money than lets say the Paratrooper because Artillery was not really needed in any german 'Conflict' the four PzH in Afghanistan were the firdt and last time.
i really love the PzH but i dont see the capability to sell/give them away since the Batteries have to scape together the last ones working proper to go to LTU.
best regards.
Yeah, I should have made that more explicit. I mention only that at least 3 people are necessary, but there is 5 crew in case something does not work. The issue is, the automated system is made to be fast and fire a lot of stuff in a short amount of time, so the speed probably can't be maintained in manual mode.
@@MilitaryHistoryVisualized It depends on the Crew, to load 60 Rounds, I would say to do it manuel is alot faster(in my expierince) but you have to "tell" the Tank what Shell you did where, if you only have HE this is no issue. All malfunctions that can happen (some over 70) can be done by the crew, but to learn that, you need time a good trained commander is needed in the 2000 or an expierinced Loader.
But yes it takes longer to load or work the Gun if the Automatic system fails, but in this I have to say the Automatic Target calculation had never failed for me or for my 20year+ commander/Comrades. Most time it is the Autoloader which fails but even that rarly happend if you clean it after every Fire-Order.
@@MilitaryHistoryVisualized Also worked with Dutch Artillery crews, the Dutch Pzh2000 is alot better than the German one. It works smooth and is alot more Crew Friendly ^-^
Question --- what has been the shortest and average counter-battery fire reaction time exhibited by the Russians in Ukraine? They seem to have fallen way short on virtually every "expected" metric of military effectiveness, so the worry about counter-battery fire on towed artillery may be overblown?
An interesting question, and it probably varies across the fronts. Currently the Russians have longer ranged artillery
Exactly dude, just s the Soviet have been falling short right up until they rolled right up to the Reichstag. Same thing.
@@BigSmartArmed Today they're fighting puny Ukraine. And barely making progress. Enjoy Sweden & Finland joining NATO because of Tsar Puny's war crimes.
@@BigSmartArmed Ah, is that it, Russia is just pretending it sucks?
I'm sure it'll stop pretending any day now...
In a properly executed fire mission it is impossible for counter battery fire to get the 2000. After the first round is fired it leaves firing position within the next 2,5 minutes. No artillery in the world can deliver the shell in this timespan. That‘s why it was designed like that.. Air threats are a different thing though..
The Slovak 155 mm SpGH ZUZANA 2 can also fire multiple round simultaneous impact, though I was not able to find a specific number of simultaneous hits. Furthermore, there is some talk in Slovakia about sending these SPGs to Ukraine.
3 rounds in MRSI mode.
A couple of media outlets claimed 20 PzH 2000s were being sent from Netherlands, but you never know with some of these sources. The Ukraine war is already becoming a massive artillery duel in the east of the country, Ukrainian forces are going to need a lot more heavy artillery and rocket systems to effectively counter the Russian batteries.
Maybe they need to buy them themselfs, we owe them nothing. They would have been part of the EU and NATO a long time ago if they went that corrupted. We need our Pzh's back...
Very informative, good video
The Ukrainians don't have the same capabilities as the US army for deploying M777 guns. It is a very complex ballet, in which several branches need to cooperate perfectly.
Or a tow truck and a couple of fellow army men.
The Ukranians have experience with towed artillery from Soviet era. They only have to learn to operate the specific system, not learn artillery from scratch. Big difference. It doesn't even matter what tows the gun. The Soviet doctrine was artillery heavy anyway, so I'm sure they have libraries filled with books on the matter.
6:20 I don't know where I've read this but the 6 Round MRSI is allegedly for extreme short range.
As long as the Russian army is tied up in Ukraine, and probably does not escape the war in good condition, most EU countries should be able to send up to 50% of their heavy weapons to Ukraine and increase the production of weapons to replace those that are sent to the Ukrainians, the crew who lose their weapons can help train Ukrainians and after that share weapons with those who are left so that they do not fall completely out of training. A heavy weapon in Ukaine increases the security of EU countries.
AMEN -- EVEN 33%!!!!
' A heavy weapon in Ukaine increases the security of EU countries.' Thank you Kiev. Anyway, the sober reality is that sending heavy weapons into an active war zone REDUCES everyone's security. Especially when there is zero clear, or even vague; strategy behind their use. If you must, FIRST figure out what you are trying to achieve THEN start killing Russians. Never the other way around. Honest. You'll see what I mean.
I understand your point. But im sure, if we "all" would send, lets say, even 30% of our weapons to Ukraine, Russia would just simply use strategic or tactical nukes. In that way it would decrease the security of our borders because our weapons are gone. The west needs to find a good balance, to not provocate Russia to use those weapons and to bring enough to Ukraine to help them win.
@@kloputzbuddie9223 The problem is a lack of strategic thinking, both military and political. For example, what would a 'win' for Ukraine look like? They agreed the Normandy Format but then declines to implement them. No-one thinks the eastern 'rebel' provinces will ever be ruled from Kiev again, but does Kiev accept this? Certainly not the 'hardliners'. So, what is western involvement actually intended to achieve? I have no idea and I don't think there is any unified thinking in the west. This is why sending heavy arms is almost and end in itself, for some in the west. I see no real purpose to the heavy artillery other than to kill some Russians. It's all very strange. What is the 'end game'? If no-one knows, then imo it is reckless to just send arms.
@John Richmond. even a bit of thinking before engaging their countries further and further in this war would be an achievement from those delusional twats. or maybe they know perfectly well what a complete depletion of western Europe's military asset and ammo stockpiles will do. oh well, we'll take cold showers singing the praise of the saint cokehead of Kiev and eat bugs and gravel.
As always very good analysis of this self propelled artillery gear. Another aspect not viewed in it since maybe this is a bit anecdotal : Panzerhaubitze 2000 is capable of direct fire more like an MBT as a last resort though. The Bundeswehr has performed some exercises with surprisingly good results. Maybe it would lead to a new crossover concept of self propelled gun acting like an MBT or MBT support as added firepower and then reversing to a long range canon when needed on the terrain.
I really love this channel. But can you make a video about why germany has shit the bed so bad during this war? No heavy weapons? Still buying gas as much as they can get. Vetoing sanctions. Does sholtz have support of the people there? Here in Finland he is mainly a joke and people expect germany to either get their shit together or just get rid of the old communist sympathizer.
You know, as a German, not even I can answer the popularity question of Scholz. But I assume it has been higher. However, popularity for the coalition is reasonably strong, since apparently everyone's doing a good job. In my opinion especially the greens.
Hooked on Russian oil
In hindsight Moving away from Nuclear was a grave mistake.
The communist (well, Russia) sympathisers are in the parties AFD and linke and not in the government.
Delivering heavy weapons is still, unfortunately, controversial within the population
We can't move away from Russian gas quickly without destroying our economy. But we're working on it
The sanction issue is, you cant afford to just shut down the whole industry. And I'm not talking about money. It would break supply chains throughout europe you didnt even dream about. We've figured it out by now though to replace oild and coal imports from russia. Gas will take much longer as new pipelines and LNG terminals are needed and suppliers have to ramp up production, which both takes time. Some suppliers like Quatar and US companies are even unwilling to act quickly, so its not that easy. Despite all that, the target is to reduce russian gas to 33% of imports at end of the year.
So yes, Scholtz has broad support to handle that carefully.
Nice job! Very interesting.